The Highwire with Del Bigtree - DR BOB SEARS DISCUSSES ‘VACCINES AND THE DISEASES THEY TARGET’

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

Pediatrician Dr. Bob Sears joins Del to unpack ACIP’s hepatitis B vaccine debate, the near-total absence of long-term safety data for newborn vaccination, and why the U.S. is an outlier in giving this shot on day one of life. He discusses the Physicians for Informed Consent’s new Silver Book “Vaccines and the Diseases They Target”, designed to give doctors and parents clear, side-by-side numbers on disease risk and vaccine risk so real informed consent can finally happen.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Another hero that I met very, very early on, before I ever even made fax and facts. The fax was just an idea. I was beginning to do the research. I just met Andrew Wakefield, but I was standing, you know, protesting SB 277 in California was going to take away these exact rights to forcibly vaccinate every child in California. And I was looking at that situation with my brand new baby who was unvaccinated. And I thought, this is the end of the world as I know it. Who's going to speak for me?

Who will stand for me? Well, there was one doctor that was doing that. His name was Bob Sears. And if you don't know who he is, watch this. Dr. Bob Sears. Dr. Bob Sears. Dr. Bob Sears. The most beloved and most hated pediatrician in the world.

An expert who has been on the front lines of pediatric care. A doctor and a firm believer in vaccine choice. He is the best-selling author of tons of book like The Vaccine Book, Making an Educated Decision for Your Child. My dad was a pediatrician. So I watched him growing up and he really enjoyed his work. So I thought I would want to be a doctor as well. Back in the 90s, I actually discovered there was one vaccine

that was actually pretty dangerous that they ended up taking off the market. So I decided to dig into the Georgetown Library and I uncovered so much research about this one vaccine. And so it made me realize the medical community sometimes is capable of covering something up when there's a problem. I kind of felt like my world was shattered. You know, how can the ivory tower of the CDC and the FDA let this slip through the cracks? That basically opened my eyes.

In my office, Don, it's not so much, you know, about, you know, vaccines and autism as it parents just don't want to see the baby suffer any sort of bad vaccine reaction. Parents are afraid that their baby will be one of those statistics. Probably 99% of doctors in California are now scared to even write any medical excuses from vaccine. for any patients because they're seeing that the medical board is coming down on us. This bill will scare doctors away from writing medical exemptions for children who need them. Doctors are afraid of losing their practice and their livelihood over a medical board investigation. The California Medical Board tried to revoke my license to practice based on the type of vaccine advice I give in my office.

I give them all the pros and cons. I give them great resources to read. And I happily accept them in my office if they choose to raise their kids without vaccines. Well, it's my honor and pleasure to be joined right now by my good friend, Dr. Bob Sears. Bob, it's been a while. How are you doing? Hey, Del. I'm doing awesome out here in California. I'm in the same room right now as you saw on that clip.

That's fantastic. And I'm glad that you still have that room. I'm glad that you're still a doctor. There's been some precarious times for you, and I've watched you have to navigate probably one of the most difficult places to be a pediatrician, at least an open-minded pediatrician in the world.

And so good for you, good for the way that you've stood. I just want to say, you know, I worked with your brother, Jim Sears, on the doctors for years, so our families in some ways are connected. We go way back. But to take this moment, I don't know if you've been watching these A-SIP meetings, but to watch what's happening today, from your perspective, when you think about when we were standing on the steps outside of the Capitol in Sacramento, and on SB 277, of course, when, you know, Richard Pan was taking away the rights of all children, and then even worse, SB 276 that later then was going to threaten every doctor, as we saw you testifying for anyone that wanted a right exemption for these vaccine injured children that needed one.

are going to be under review, you're under threat. What does it mean for you watching what's happening at the CDC today? It makes me so excited, Dell, just to see scientists openly discuss real science and discuss all the science. And that's the whole key. I especially love that part, the gentleman, I forget his name Reddy or Yeti or something. He made the point. Retz-F-Levy. Yeah, when we look at the data we have, none of the studies are large enough to give us any answers, any good answers on vaccine risk. And I think that's so awesome to see that just that basic idea put out there in the public. And I also like how none of these doctors are saying anything really against vaccinating or they're not, you know, speaking out

strongly about all the terrible possible vaccine side effects and it's i enjoyed your little you know brief tirade a few minutes ago on the show and tell it's always fun to to hear you but i mean none of the scientists are talking like that they're just talking straight science yeah and that is so refreshing to see it really is and it's a very important question why give this to children that don't need it why a product for 99.95 of the kids that don't need it no one is saying let's not vaccinate these kids. Let's just test all the moms. Let's know who's at risk and let's just be focused. I mean, are we not at a place in the United States of America in a future with AI and technologies that can track my eyeballs that know where I am anywhere in this world? Is it not possible to make

sure that we have blood tests that we're well aware of the positions that these children are in and give them care that is specifically designed for them? Isn't that the heart of do no harm? meaning I'm going to give you something that only, you know, that you need and not something you don't because of some kid you don't know. Exactly. And, you know, you talk about, you know, about the potential harm of this vaccine and they brought this up in the meeting. Well, what is the harm? I mean, you know, what's the harm in giving this vaccine that can only benefit babies? Well, you and I know that there definitely is potential harm from Hep-B vaccine. And there are serious neurodial. neurological risks. There are serious autoimmune risks. One straightforward risk, though, that isn't even really that serious is newborn fever. The number of babies who get fever alone from the Hep B vaccine, given the day they're born in the hospital, is it's not a small number. And I don't actually have the actual number, but I know we do have some research that shows one hospital in Israel looked at this.

And they showed the year they started vaccinating babies with Hep B vaccine as newborns, the number of babies admitted to their intensive care unit with fevers doubled in the hospital. So when you're a healthy newborn baby born in the hospital, nothing's wrong with you at all, you get a Hep B vaccine, you get a fever, that buys you at least three days in the intensive care unit while they treat you for infection, they do all kinds of tests. And that alone, is potential harm right up front for any baby with, as you and I would say, really no potential benefit in a low-risk population. And Tracy Beth...

So there is harm with no benefit. Right. And by the way, we're trying to develop harm where you've refused to do any proper science. Five-day safety studies of 147 kids, you know, no sort of capture system or reporting system that anyone would say that they trust, that's totally underreported. I mean, the whole thing is such a mess. But I would just say, you know, when I look at this conversation, we're going to get into why we're having this conversation. But the one thing I would like to see set on the floor of the advisory committee on the immunization practices as the argument is, well, you know, what is the risk?

What is the harm? I don't know the fact that there's 54% of our children have chronic disease if you include obesity in America. The fact that we're the sickest nation in the industrialized world, the fact that this vaccine we're giving on day one of life, which is an anomaly, as Tracy Beth Hoag pointed out, is it. being given anywhere else in the world and they're not having hepatitis B outbreaks. So we're doing something no one else is. And by the way, we have the highest day one old baby death rate in the entire industrialized world. More babies dying on the first day of life. Can we prove it's hepatitis B? No, because you won't do the science, but there's some signals there, man. There's some signals we should be worried about. Yeah, and I love how the doctors of

the CDC you or what I would like to call maybe entrenched doctors and researchers who've been there a long time. They're so quick to point out the underreporting of disease. They say, okay, yeah, sure. We only have 400 children reportedly infected every year from HEPB, but we're estimating we're missing so many of those. We're going to call it 20,000. You know, they used to call it 30,000. Then they called it 20,000. And I think now they're calling it 16,000 for so quick to say, hey, there's all this underreported

disease that we're going to escalate in our findings. They're not willing to discuss the unreported and underreported vaccine reactions. Such a good point. And I think finally we have a group that is actually willing to look at that. Well, I think what's critical and why I want to talk to you today, you're a member of one of the most important groups out there that has been doing work right alongside informed consent action network physicians for informed consent. This is a body of doctors and scientists that really risk your careers to come together to really bring evidence-based science to this conversation. But as you're saying, for those entrenched doctors that just are struggling to understand what's happening here that got that, you know, that as has been declared by the WHO,

only got a half a day education on vaccines while they were in med school. Is that in, I mean, I made that statement, is that somewhat accurate? I mean, would you sort of? Yes. That's accurate, right? That's accurate. That's, I mean, every time I say it, I know I've seen the WHO state. I know it's stated, that's outrageous that when I'm going to my, you know, pediatrician,

they had a half a day education on one of the main things that they do in their office. But tell me about this book over your shoulder. I'm talking about this one right here. The silver book, Vaccines and the Diseases. they target. This has just been put out by physicians for informed consent. I love that it's happening today. This is something we've been wanted to talk to you about for some time. It's been out for, I think, a couple months now. But on the day of ASIP, perfect moment. Why this book, what is it? And who's it targeting? What did you guys work on this book? What's it set out to

achieve? Well, it's been in the works for 10 years now, Dell. And some of the doctors, and researchers in physician's form consent started collecting every single research study they could find on vaccines and the diseases they target. Whether the study is in favor of vaccines or shows potential vaccine side effects, they just gathered all the data. And this book actually has 400 studies that look at disease information and vaccine safety. And what they did is they basically is they basically compiled it. I mean, you know how you're, you're talking to people, you're thinking about vaccines, you're doing research, and you wonder, where is the data? Where is the information? Where is the research? And you have to go find it. And that's not an easy task.

Yeah. Well, this group finally put together all the data in one very little book. I keep looking at my book over here on the side. Yeah. Yeah. The back third of the book is all the research studies right yeah and then the first two-thirds of the book what i love is just every disease is one page just like a one-page overview of everything you need to know about the disease and then every vaccine is one page i guess two pages you know yeah both sides of the book um it's so simple it takes the data that seems very complicated and it simplifies it down to something that even a cdc researcher could understand probably. And so I feel like this book is for everybody, but it's especially people who really want to take a really deep dive into the data. Well, I want people to sort of look at

what he's saying here because it is, this is what makes this so brilliant is when you hear 400 studies, it can be really intimidating. But I can turn to enter any page, though. I just want to show them, yeah, I can show you slides. But it's this simple. It's only a few paragraphs. And it's what is so genius about this, Bob, because this is the work, right? Anybody, I can, I could bury you in the 20 studies around tetanus and all that you need to know, but you've been really exceptional at, let's just get, what are the most important salient points? What are the most important things that we know about the vaccine? Are there issues? What is it? And then the disease itself, this is the part we really don't cover a lot. You know, not even at I can. We talk a lot about

the dangers of the vaccines, but what were the numbers of the dangers of the virus itself? Because if we're going to try and do some of, you know, risk, reward, benefit ratio, you know, dive, how do we do that? This is the first book that I've ever seen on the left page. I can see what the vaccine is up to. Or is it vice versa. And then on the other page, I get to see what the disease was all about and really make this, you know, help me make this, this, this, this, this decision, right? So it's fantastic that way. Yeah, I think when I talk to patients in the office, one of the main things they want to know is like they tell me, we know there's vaccine side effects. We know there's risk. I want to know

what's the risk to my baby if I don't vaccinate them. Right. What is the disease risk? They want numbers. And I usually skip to the end of the story when I'm talking to them. And I say in my 28 years of being a pediatrician, I've never seen, a single case, a single severe case of a vaccine targeted illness. And so they say, okay, well, sounds like the risk is pretty low. But what Pick has done with this book is they actually give you the exact numbers. Because the data is there. They have numbers from the CDC throughout the 19th century,

where the CDC was gathering data on every single case before vaccines. So they tell us, yeah, how many kids were harmed by diphtheria before vaccines? vaccines, tetanus, hepatitis B, measles, everything, how many were harmed before there even was a vaccine? And Dell, the numbers are staggeringly low. It's amazing how low the numbers of kids who are harmed by infection before we even had vaccines. And then the page you have right there kind of speaks to it, you know, that comparing the risk of each of each of these infections. You can see the, you know, the risk compared to the vaccine and then the actual disease and these tiny little numbers.

And that's what pharma has been so brilliant at. You know, I have to say, and even watching Dr. Meisner, some of these guys are just so pro vaccine that are still, and by the way, I'm glad they're still on the committee, right? I mean, I want to point that out, too. Anyone that says that Robert Kennedy Jr. has stacked this with anti-vaxxers, you got Dr. Meiser in there. There is a robust debate. Both sides are being represented. So even though my skin's crawling over some of the, you know, the blindfolds that are appearing on some of these doctors, they're in there. Like Bobby didn't, he wants a role. It's what science should be. All sides

should be represented. We should be having it out. Sure, yell, scream, cry. Let's do this. And so finally it's happening. But what pharma has done so brilliantly through media, it's what I did on the doctors. Me and your brother were really good at this. Let's just scare the hell out of you and make you personalize a super rare issue. All I have to do is show you someone covered with a rash. It doesn't matter that one in a million people are ever going to get this thing. If you see it, you go, oh my God, I'll do anything to make sure I never get that. Well, you know, 99,000 of you would never have to do anything. But we can make you all say, well, if you take this product, It's 100% effective at keeping you from getting covered with this, you know, and that's what they do.

And so we go, we don't hear the one in a million. We just go, I will do anything to make sure I don't get that. Yes, yeah, exactly. And then they've done a great job and how awesome is it now to realize we are now part of a movement where now half of our country or more now understand that that's probably not true. what farmers been telling us all these years may not be true yeah and and something i also wanted to point out that i really love about this book is the the researchers uh and the people that wrote this are really good friends of mine and they're very honest in this book tell

in that when they talk about vaccine risk you look at any vaccine page and it basically yeah turn to the the next polio vaccine page i don't know if you have it there but it basically tells you you they tell you what's the risk of catching polio yeah they also tell you what's the risk of the polio vaccine but what they're honest about is they say the risk of these vaccines dealt are largely inconclusive right because of the lack of safety research so they they estimate say for example polio vaccine probably about 70 people for every 100,000 people in our population are going to have a severe injury from this vaccine? Yeah.

Or the detat, no, DTAP vaccine on the DTAP page. 70 per 100,000 people. But they're honest. They say our data is inconclusive, though. We're estimating about 70 per 100,000 are going to be injured by the vaccine. But we don't have really good research to show you whether or not that's actually true. So they have really good disease data. But again, the vaccine safety data is lacking.

And that was probably the take-home message of this ASIP meeting. Yeah. Is there just a total lack of safety data. And now they're faced with a decision about a disease that the ASIP committee has now realized, after much discussion, poses very little risk to American children who are not born into a high-risk environment. So the big question, part of what this book is there for doctors to have, next to their pink book, the silver book here, you know, so that they can really have a quick look at something that they were never educated on in school. But let me ask you the hard

question that I get from the media all the time. I'm sure you fielded it. Bob, what are you going to do when polio comes back or when measles comes back because people aren't vaccinating? Yeah, well, the polio question is very interesting one. And this book covers it very, very well. The whole key to understanding the polio dilemma is the vaccine we use now doesn't prevent infection and it doesn't prevent transmission. All it does is gives you some immunity in your bloodstream that will protect you from neurologic symptoms should you as an individual contract polio infection. But it does nothing for the public health.

It doesn't protect your neighbor or your friend or your schoolmate. just individual protection. So we've managed to keep polio out of the U.S. for 40 years now using a vaccine that isn't even keeping it out of the U.S. because it doesn't prevent infection. Wow, that's a good point. So we've done it through public health measures. We've done it through sanitation and hygiene and good health. And, you know, right now, polio is confined to just a few impoverished nations in other parts of the world, and it's been that way for a very long time. So, I mean, I think that the polio debate, I think, is very easy to answer, and that's why it pisses me off when I see polio vaccines mandated for school.

Right. It's a really interesting point, Bob. I actually, you said that in a way I hadn't thought about it, because I am aware that it doesn't stop infection or transmission, but they'll, when you make the statement, we haven't had polio for 40 years, like, yeah, because we're vaccinating. No, actually, if it doesn't stop transmission and doesn't stop infection, we should be seeing in the sewage systems all across this country. If it can be spread here, there's nothing stopping it spread. There's nothing stopping it coming from Africa or the Middle East, wherever they are having these impoverished nations, which also there's some sense of chemicals and things that they're around that might be lowering their immune systems that are, you know, making that risky.

but it would be here. It's just, you know, we're being protected from the severity of it, but we don't see it here at all. It's not here at all. And we're not using a vaccine that is a sterilizing vaccine that kills it dead and make sure we never get it. We should see it here and we don't. And so there's not really a problem. Such an interesting point. And measles. You know, what do you say about measles? I mean, I think we're going to have to grapple with this idea as we move forward, you know, I want my kids to have the measles. When the media is like, you're going to cause measles, like, great, I mean, tell me where. I got to get my kids over there. I want them to catch the measles. I want the benefits that I know exist when a child has had the measles.

But are doctors going to have to retool? We're going to have to learn how to treat measles because obviously it was a Brady Bunch episode years ago. Doctors weren't terrified. Your father wasn't terrified of dealing with the measles. No, no, I'm sure. I'm sure he wasn't. Measles is really interesting. And I've told people for a long time, you know, if any infection is possibly going to, you know, make itself known once again, it's likely to be measles. Yeah. As we're seeing in the last year and a half. And what's interesting with measles, though, is the reason why it's coming back, Dell, and you know this, but I guess maybe I'm telling this to the audience, is largely because our adult population is no longer immune.

yeah you know back when back when adults caught real measles they were immune for life yeah but now since we've been vaccinating since uh what since the early you know 70s 60s yes so 62 but it got it gets robust in the 70s yeah so now everyone now is growing up they have vaccine immunity for maybe 10 15 20 years but then they lose that immunity so the whole herd of adults that we have in the united states a large part of our herd doesn't doesn't have herd immunity from measles. And then yes, when some children, when the families elect to not vaccinate their children

because they have concerns about the safety of the MMR vaccine, we're now gonna have some children that don't have vaccine immunity either. So now we're seeing more measles and children, but we're seeing it in adults as well. And we've been seeing it every single year going back, ever since we've had measles. We've never had a zero year.

So I think we're going to see measles wax and wane as each, you know, kind of a couple of years go by. It's probably going to come in a couple of years cycles and it'll be low again and then I'll come back again. And I think measles is going to become an ongoing part of our society now. I don't think it's going to make your comeback like chicken pox. But it's largely because the vaccine wears off and it doesn't work in everybody. So measles is actually a disease that we can't eliminate from our world. The infection is just too smart and the vaccine just doesn't work good enough. So all really good points.

Those are points obviously that are in this book. So for anyone that wants to buy this book, I can't recommend it up. It's so simple, so easy. You can just turn right to the page of whatever vaccine or whatever disease you're curious about. Where do we find this book? I guess we have it up here, right? Yeah, probably, I mean, you get ordered on on Amazon anywhere, anywhere people sell books and probably everyone get on Amazon, you know, leave reviews and that always helps, you know, help sales. I love tracking vaccine book sales on Amazon. I love looking. It's been great to see Aaron's series book there as well.

Yeah. And my book usually hovers around, you know, number five or six on the on the vaccine list. So I'd love to see that the silver book hit number one. Yeah. you know, vaccines and the diseases they target because I think it touches disease information probably better than any other book. I agree. As well as the vaccine information. It's really, I think that is really the stellar part, the exciting part about this book and what hasn't really been done. Certainly not this simply and clearly. So here's my recommendation. Sure, definitely buy one for yourself. You want one of these. It's easy. You got a friend over. You can look through it. But I would make this the Christmas gift to every doctor that you go to.

Just go ahead, bring it to your pediatrician wrapped up. Say, this should go alongside your pink book. It really help you understand what's going on there. Don't worry about it. It's from me. Merry Christmas. Love you, you know, and that'll help you make sure that your doctor is better educated. Bob, you're a hero man.

You've been on the front lines. I'm so glad to see you've navigated it. You've, you've caught slings and arrows from all sides of this to precarious space to be in, you know, I know the, you know, the people that have said he still gives vaccines. He's an evil person. And I remember I interviewed you a few years ago and, and you said something that has always stuck with me. Dell, there are parents in, in California that are trying to spread them out, that are trying to do whatever they can to make this as safe for their kids. They don't have a choice. If I'm not here, they really don't have a choice. I'm working with people wherever they're at. I'm so glad you're there. I'm so glad the position you've held has been critical and important and I know babies are healthier and are living and alive and maybe we'll go on to be great scientists that can do better science because you were there to make sure they survived. So thank you for that work. Well, thank you, Del. And I just want to say I appreciate your friendship, Del. You know, you kind of said at the beginning of the show, you and I met a long time ago and and it's been great to know you over these years. and see your journey as well and feel your passion. And nobody's more passionate than you, Adel. So I appreciate your friendship.

I'm glad that you're out there. And yeah, it's fun to see what the ACIP is going to do with this. It looks like they're talking about making the happy vaccine under the shared decision-making category, the individual decision-making category. It looks like they're probably not going to just take it off the whole schedule. Right. But they're going to change it into something where the doctor will then kind of,

individually have this conversation patient to patient, which I think is where most of this should be. I've said it from the beginning. It should all be there. I think it should all be there. I, you know, we're smart people. We should be able to be educated. You're, you know, the nonprofit, you're a part of physicians for informed consent. My nonprofit, informed consent action network. Informed consent is not about erasing vaccines from the planet. It's not about erasing anything from implant what it's saying is inform me and what is my risk if there's 400 kids that have a problem with this of the millions being born then I don't think this is a problem I need to worry about I know I don't have hepatitis B I've been informed I recognize my baby has zero risk

and based on the information I'm going to make a choice but if I'm hepatitis B positive for whatever reason got a bad blood transfusion you name it I should be able to have a kid I should have a product available to me my doctor should be able to have an honest conversation with me and have a product that is there and available. That is the world that I think Robert Kennedy Jr. is working towards. It may not be the eradication of the vaccine program as some people would dream, but that has never been what Bobby Kennedy's promised. It's never been what you promised by the statement informed consent.

We stand by informed consent. All we want is your right to choose. And you've been a big part of that. It's what I believe. And I pray, I pray that you're right that we're going to finally see the first vaccine really since COVID. but this is the one that is not protected by PrEP, which is going to, you know, set a lot of other things in action. We're going to finally see real choice in a free country return to the people. All right, Bob. Amen. Amen, Del. Absolutely. Take care. Everyone, go out, get yourself vaccines and the disease they target.

Bob, thank you for taking the time today. I look forward to catching up with you soon. Thank you. Thank you.