The Highwire with Del Bigtree - DR. JORDAN VAUGHN: FROM THE ICU TO THE SENATE FLOOR

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

Fresh off his powerful testimony at Senator Ron Johnson’s hearing on vaccine injury, Dr. Jordan Vaughn joins Del to share firsthand clinical insight into the alarming rise in post-vaccine myocarditis—cases he says were virtually nonexistent before 2020. He discusses how the medical system continues to fail the injured and exposes the federal cover-up that kept the public in the dark.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

One of the best humans on the planet, I think, right now, is Senator Ron Johnson. It's been my pleasure to get to work directly with him at some of the hearings throughout COVID. This guy, you want to talk about waking up. This guy woke up. I mean, prior to COVID, you know, I'm sure he vaccinated his kids, his grandkids. And then suddenly his eyes were opened. And like nobody else, he started reading the science, understanding the science, he started having hearings. Well, now he just had an official hearing as the head of his committee bringing in a real discussion on what was the cover up around the COVID vaccine.

I want to remind you, and he even says it himself, that he only, he wanted to retire. He was done. What an amazing career this guy has had. He only ran to be a senator one more time. He said, because I need to get to the bottom of this vaccine injury story. We're not done. Luckily for him, you know, Robert Kennedy Jr. ended up taking this position at HHS, but that wasn't even requirement. Ron Johnson was going to do this all alone.

And clearly, when you watched this hearing yesterday, you can tell this is the guy that's designed to take it on, head on, like no one we've ever had in government. So my hat's off to Senator Ron Johnson. If you did not watch this hearing live yesterday, it's going to be available at thehighwire.com. You have got to check it out. this is just a little bit of a taste of what that hearing was like. Take a look at this. Good afternoon. This hearing of the permanent subcommittee investigations will come to order.

Title of today's hearing is the corruption of science and federal health agencies, how health officials downplayed and hid myocarditis and other adverse events associated with the COVID-19 vaccines. So much of our miserably failed response to COVID made no sense. Masking, devastating shutdowns, the sabotage of early treatment. rapid approval of remdesivir and the maniacal reliance on the COVID-19 injections as the only way to end the pandemic. I think we finally got enough documents to certainly demonstrate in this case with myocarditis that the federal government was well aware of it, downplayed the severity, and hid what they had actually found. Do you swear that testimony you are about to give before the subcommittee is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

He's seated. Spring of 2021, a clear safety signal emerged. Myocarditis and young males linked to MRNA vaccines. The Department of Defense confirmed cases of rare heart inflammation and peer-reviewed studies later detected circulating spike protein in post-vaccine myocarditis cases. Autopsy findings have confirmed fatal vaccine-induced myocarditis. Yet federal authorities accelerated licensing and mandates sidelining concerns. I'm a cardiologist.

I know the topic well. I've examined thousands of patients with this problem. Thousands. Before the pandemic, I had two patients. ever with this problem. It is difficult to conceive of a more egregious breach of medical ethics by the government control medical industrial complex than the promotion of COVID-19 vaccines to pregnant women, thereby through transplacental transfer, effectively vaccinating their unborn and newborn children. Before the pandemic, I enjoyed a successful practice in Wisconsin,

performing over 800 major surgeries annually. I proudly elected to get vaccinated. vaccinated and within a week I developed leg weakness, numbness, substantial balance loss, leading to falls, including one while treating a patient. Diagnosed with transverse myelitis, a spinal cord lesion at T8, T9, I was stunned that my providers dismissed any vaccine link despite news of similar cases halting the Astrozenica trial in the UK. When you look at all-cause mortality in the United States, deaths in 2021 went up compared to 2020. We should have had a reduction in all cause mortality in the United States.

We did not. As we talk about the side effects of COVID vaccines, I think we need to be clear about the most important fact for all Americans. COVID-19 vaccines have saved millions and millions of lives. There is no scientific question about that fact. Save lives. The grander picture of a vaccination program is to protect all and to find a way to protect people so that they can also help protect the people around them. From the outset of the pandemic, this vaccine campaign was never grounded in biological science, but rather in behavioral science, specifically the manipulation of public perception through influence, fear, and persuasion.

Not only were your viewpoints. ignored. You were called a conspiracy theorist, a spreader of misinformation, somebody who didn't know what they were doing by people who didn't even take a science class in high school. The COVID vaccines in some people, sadly, result in death. Some on the very first day they take the shot. That must be a black box warning on the product immediately. They still don't have the word death in the package insert. As of today, they don't. And so Americans are not fairly informed. Dr. Walcott, as a vaccine injured, do you believe you received informed consent? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Informed consent requires true and transparent data.

It is a killer protein. It cannot be safe. It was not safe by design. safety trumps efficacy. We cannot tolerate false drug claims. And we saw a poster behind Senator Blumenthal making a false drug claim. Bad vaccines saved millions of lives, specifically the COVID vaccine. We can't allow false drug advertising to be put up on a poster behind one of our public servants. We cannot accept that. I saw a slide put up that showed three million lives were saved from COVID-19 vaccines.

The citation to it was to the common. fund. If you follow that, that's not a peer-reviewed study. That's a blog. It's a blog that used the mathematical model to calculate that three million lives were safe. If I went into court and I was relying on a blog that used a mathematical model, I would be laughed out of court if I was making those claims about vaccines. But unfortunately, when it comes to promoting vaccines, that's what we often see. If COVID-19 did the vaccine, the injection, did not stop the spread of COVID. Why is it that Joe Biden, the United States, issued an executive order, which was ruled unconstitutional, by the way, that said that if you worked for a company with 100 employees, because not 99, 100, that you would be fired if you did not prove you didn't have a COVID vaccine negative test or got vaccinated. They were scientifically ungrounded. They were sociologically deranged, and they caused great harm. To this day, people are in court.

trying to get their jobs back and trying to put their lives together because of these disastrous. Tell me the science behind why you locked your residents up and did not allow them to go grocery shopping, while you closed your beaches and your parks. I would love you to put that science into this record because you can give me the nice happy talk. Those were terrible decisions. 14 days was how long it took for people to get over the disease and people were still shedding virus through that period. And that's why you do use science and I use science, but you didn't like science for Hawaii. The CDC's hesitation to issue a health alert on myocarditis and the FDA's former CBER director promoting vaccines on social media crossed a line from oversight to advocacy. This was not

regulation. It was endorsement. We need leadership that humbly engages with data, listens to patients and actually acts with courage. We should be looking at all environmental insults because we are in the midst right now of a pandemic. It's a pandemic of chronic disease amongst our children. Over 50% of kids in America have a chronic disease right now. That's up from under 13% in the early 80s. What's changed? Maybe we should start by ruling out the fact that we have gone from three injections on the CDC schedule in 1986, the year the National Child of Vaccine Adirectors passed, to currently, if a child gets the full CDC schedule, follows it today,

by one year of age, gets 29 injections, including in your row. I do want to close and conclude that I ran for a third turn because, no, Nobody was advocating for the vaccine injury. And I apologize for not having, no, no, no. I apologize. I apologize up front for not having a hearing earlier, but it takes time to get this information. And again, we only had a little bit,

which allowed Senator Blumenthal to pick apart the evidence. And I didn't say we made the full case. I've got indication we can make a pretty full case over the next at least two years during this chairmanship. So that's what I'm dedicated doing. Stay tuned. There's going to be more to come. God bless all people.

Well, it was an absolutely incredible hearing. Bombs blew up. Mikes were dropped. Arrows were fired back and forth. It was heated. It was really one of the most outrageous hearings. Maybe I've ever seen, but so packed with important information. The panel was, it went on for about three hours.

The panel consisted of our own Aaron Siri, the lawyer that represents informed consent action network. And all the cases, as I've said so many times that we've won against the government, He brought all the incredible information that he's, you know, sort of uncovered through our lawsuits over the years. Peter McCullough, of course, I think the most published heart doctor in the world that had his license under review for speaking out that didn't stop him. Just an amazing testimony from him, James Thorpe, the OBGYN that has been shouting the alarm on the issues with pregnancy and pregnant women and fetuses that are being affected by the COVID vaccine. just incredible testimony there. Josh Green from Hawaii was the only real pro-COVID vaccine person was brought in. I want to sort of just tip my hat off to him.

This wasn't an easy hearing to come into. And I know that at the end, Ron Johnson said he'd like to even see more balance. It would be great to hear more from the other side. But to anyone that showed up, so often the pro-vaccine side does not show up to these conversations. So I want to thank him for at least representing the other side. And he took some heat in there. And whether that was warranted or not, you'll have to decide when you watch it yourself. And then, of course, Dr. Jordan Vaughn, who is an internist, has multiple clinics, oversees thousands and thousands of patients.

And so I'm honored and just overjoyed to be joined right now by Dr. Vaughan. Thanks for having me, Dale. Just have you ever been a part of something like that? I mean... So a little bit. I mean, I was part of the house. The house is on it a little bit a year ago. actually with Aaron as well. And that was when Philip Kraus. But in terms of the actual kind of

the way that that was done, I think the Senate is much better at really examining evidence better than the House, which is a lot of, I mean, it's a lot of, you know, news bites and those kind of things. But it's, that was, other than sitting there for three hours and wondering if my legs are going to wake up, it was. Yeah. It was really amazing. And it got heated. I mean, there was some real intensity there that you can. can see just in that trailer. So let's just talk about a little bit about your background. First of all, just tell me, you know, what's your area of expertise and you have a pretty large client base or patient base that you've been looking at through this COVID lens.

Yeah, so really before 2020, I mean, I was a traditional internist that as father's a physician owns his own practice, although that is now rare compared to typical physicians. But I was always independent-minded. My father was also an engineer in undergraduate. I was an engineer as well. So the kind of bones to actually understand and problem-solve and actually take evidence and see if there's actually something there was very different than what we learned in medical school.

So that kind of gave me that under-pending of how do we look at things through a lens of problem-solving. But it wasn't really until 2020. as I was trying to take care of the patients and my employees, I have about 200 plus employees, I had to really dive deep and figure out what the hell was going on. And in a sense, what that drove me to was really accessing information that was the exact opposite of what was being said by our health authorities. And so that really drove me to say, what else is here?

And interestingly enough, even as we continued to treat COVID, one of the things we did early, and, you know, we're known for is utilizing things like antiquagulants and antiplatlets and people that had severe COVID, because, again, COVID from what we understand now, is primarily a vascular disease. And even when it affected the lungs, it affected the vessels of the lungs, not the airways. And so in a sense, the worst thing, and I talked about it at the hearing, the worst thing you can do for a vascular disease of the lungs is increase the intertheracic

pressure. Wow. And that's what a ventilator does. And so in a sense, it was pretty obvious that we were just killing people. And so that really drove me to pull people out of the hospitals, actually, you know, get probably 600 people in my community, put them on home oxygen, visit them in their houses, get actually even a lady carrying around oxygen concentrators, putting them on anticoagulants and having incredible success, meaning basically having people completely get back to them. And that, unfortunately, led people to think that I had a lot of knowledge about how to help people with vaccine injury. and a long COVID. And so I was kind of like, oh, crap, I've got to learn this too.

And so I just, again, put my head down. The nice thing was is the pathologies in acute COVID are not that different than what we're talking about when we talk about vaccine injury and long COVID because they all revolve around the same pathogen, which is a spike protein. Very interesting. So, you know, let's look at just that analysis, taking us back into the pandemic. I remember there was a very famous video. I'm forgetting his name right now, but an ER doctor that came out and did a live post after

having been all night. He said, we're doing something wrong. We're killing my patients. It feels like I'm treating people that are on the top of Mount Everest. He said they're not. Yeah. You know, the ventilators, it's not working. The oxygen is not getting in. We have a different problem here. Is that sort of, I mean, you know. Yeah, so my men, one of my mentor, Jacques Olobster in South Africa, actually put out a YouTube video in the spring of 2020 and basically said, we're barking up the wrong tree. This is a vascular disease of the lungs, not an airway disease of the lungs. And he basically laid it out in basically systematic physiology and said, look, these people are easy to ventilate, but we're not being able to oxygenate them. And the

concept of that it was acute respiratory distress syndrome, which is ARG, where your lung is heavy and full of crap, wasn't the issue. Actually, if you talk to any of the ICU doctors, it was like, these people are very easy to ventilate. We just can't oxygenate them. Well, that also means that it's a vascular issue. And actually, you're making it worse when you put them on the ventilator. So what we started to realize... And I remember, I mean, What was crazy was, I mean, the rates, some of them we were hearing was like nine out of ten people once you're on a ventilator did not survive. And to this day, the people that I see that were on ventilators, all of them have one thing in common, which is they all had to get on anticoagulation or blood thinners when they were in the hospital because they either had a blood clot, they had a fib or they got on ECMO. So that saved your lives.

Yeah, that's-in-that-blood. Yeah, that's-old. Yeah. I tell them all the time, thank God you got an atrial fib. Wow. And so in a sense, it was pretty obvious. The other thing that was pretty obvious in the spring of 2020 was you were twice as likely to leave the hospital alive if you were already on a blood thinner. And these are elderly people.

You probably have friends on blood thinners. They're probably not as healthy as you are if you're not on it. So in a sense, you know, the comorbidities that go along with you already being on a blood thinner should not be a protective mechanism. Right. But it was. And so that was the big suggestion there. That's what Jock and Risha Pitorious and Doug Kell. And again, most of the information, most of the interface I had, was not within the American community,

meaning the academic medical centers here were sold out to the CARES Act and the treatments and the protocols. The only people that were open to it was really Europe and South Africa. And interestingly enough, also, even around that time, the respiratory, European respiratory journal or European Pulmonary General said, look, we don't need to put people on ventilators. What we need to do is what we call permissive hypoxemia, which is a fancy word for saying, look, just because of it, it says 70, as long as their work of breathing is okay, don't ventilate them or you're going to

kill. Wow. And so I think it's interesting that your background, you said you was an engineer on top of your medical degree, so you're a problem solver, you have critical thinking. And, you know, I've said it many times. I interviewed Suzanne Humphreys many times, and she goes back. She wrote Dissolving Illusions and it's been really big. But I once asked her, what is it about?

medical school that trains the critical thinking out of people, that they just do what they're told. And we've never seen anything like in my lifetime, like the COVID pandemic. I would liken it to. And I think when we look at Nazi Germany, doctors did really atrocious things because they were just doing what they were told. At least that's what they said when they were finally put in a courtroom. But I said to her, what is it that, you know, in the medical train that trains out the critical thinking? And she said, well, on the contrary, it's actually the medical schooling is designed to wean out people that critically think. You're not designed to think like that. You're just supposed to be a paint by numbers. I read it. I can memorize it. I picture it. I do it exactly

like it's always been done. And so you sort of tend to have people that don't critically think. Yet you have, you know, you had this secret weapon where you were in, you know, a specialty that also was like, well, actually, you know, problem solving is a part of what we do. Yeah. And not only that, I would say it's almost like medical school. is more elementary in terms of what's like learning your multiplication tables and them drilling it into you. And actually, engineering school teaches you how to think. And so as much as, I think there was somebody, I forgot it was talking, they were saying, hey, they went to both law school and med school. And law school actually taught you how to think med school was like going back to elementary school and just learning route memorization, which is what it was.

I mean, again, engineering school, bring all the books you want. We want you to solve the problem. That's the test. Okay. Medical school, let's tie your hands behind your back and see if you can remember all this stuff that we taught you. I mean, that really is not really education. It's not teaching people to think. What was it when you started making the change? When you started recognizing, wait a minute, this is a vascular issue, not a respiratory issue necessarily.

And, you know, you broke free, you know, what was it like to watch your profession, I mean, essentially murdering. And once you recognized the truth and started seeing amazing success, you're standing in an industry that then isn't listening to you, right? On the whole across America, many like you, Dr. Paul Merrick, one of my favorite pieces of testimony ever on another Ron Johnson hearing. The hospital made me watch my, like took away my tools, and then made me watch my patients die.

In your case, you had a little bit more control. We'll get into sort of the clinics and the power that you have there. But just looking at your profession in real time, I'm just curious, what was that like to say, what are my fellow doctors doing? It was interesting and heartbreaking. I mean, weird enough, I had a lot of anesthesiologists that understood what I was talking about.

And so even within the hospital, they would be like, Jordan, you've got to get this person out of the hospital. They're going to die. And obviously, even the board and the hospital didn't really like that because I was not following protocol. Yeah. You know, in a sense, I have no love loss for the hospital that I'm no longer work with.

Not that I ever was employed, but just had privileges, because, again... Did they take away privileges? Well, I just didn't want them back, because that makes sense. They were very, you know, wanted to know why I was doing this, not, never asking about the outcome. Does that make sense? People's lives? Yeah. Really simple.

And even when I was called down before the Board of Medicine in Alabama, and thankfully, actually, Alabama is a... It actually, they're, well, I think probably the legislators helped me a little bit because they had taken care of so many of them. But it was interesting to actually be interviewed about not following, protocol, even though the protocol was killing people. I hope most doctors, if they are forced to follow a protocol that kills people, will not follow that protocol. Right, right. And what does it say about doctors that so many did? You know, like my son does very well in school. He's tracking to get great grades. And, you know, and I just recently was like, be careful, man, because, you know, I don't want you on some track where you end up just being so good and book smart, you repeat things that you end up

just saying, hey, kill those patients and you do. I mean, I know that's not what was being said. They're being told, this is the only way to handle it. But, I mean, honestly, I'm not a doctor. I was reporting on it. It was so effing obvious that there was solutions available. And you would literally just have to be walking through the world like this to not see them. Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine.

What was the risk? I mean, the doctors I know that woke up were like, you know the moment I woke up? When they started telling me, Ivermectin was dangerous. or that hydroxychloric when it was dangerous. A product that has been prescribed, is said to be safer than anything else in the world. Once the CDC started telling me it was dangerous, I said, I've got to look at what else is going on here.

But what did we say about this profession that went along with it? So, you know, my unique perspective, obviously, because my father was already a physician, we already had a family company. I loved medical school because I was actually able to challenge the people above me. But in a sense, that's not how you get into it. to a fellowship, that's not how you get into the high ranking specialties. That's not how you win favor with the academic establishment or the NIH.

The other thing is, really, from a technical standpoint, most physicians that are paid well are proceduralists, and we need them, but proceduralists are very good at doing something they're taught over and over and over again. They will make incremental changes to probably improve that procedure, but very few of them have ever thought through, actually, what is that procedure doing to the whole body? And that is probably the consequence of our siloed medical system. And that's the problem when we talk about how COVID affected the vessels, because vessels are everywhere. And so when you have a disease that affects the vessels everywhere, you're going to have a multisystems disease process.

And it's going to be completely un... The medical system, as it is built, will be completely unable to help those people. So what's unique is you, tell me about your clinics and the structure of sort of what you're overseeing. So my father started my company the year I was born, 82. He was an old ER physician that said half the stuff in the ER probably can be taken care of in the outpatient setting. Built a great reputation as a doctor that thinks outside the box. I mean, he was the guy that everybody was making fun of in the 80s because he thought vitamin D was important. Meaning, so I already had that kind of mentorship of somebody that's literally as a physician.

saying, Jordan, don't believe all the crap that they're teaching you. But it also, the reason that he always wanted to be independent was two reasons. One is we've always felt that the best decisions made for the patients are going to be made by somebody who can make them free of any kind of compulsion outside. The other thing is, and I think RFK talks about this, the unique thing about being a doctor is that you're not just treating the physical. it is also a spiritual being and so you need to have the liberty

and ability as a Christian to be able to share and love on people and not have any restraint from that either. And so as much as that was perfectly legitimately legitimate up until 2020, it was great, it gave me freedom. There's lots of things that are hard

about having your own practice. It is very complex. The reimbursement is different from what the hospital gets and you don't have all the kind of ability to get bailed out and all these kind of things. But in 2020, I saw my dad's wisdom because when it came to you have to do what people say,

again, you know, it was kind of a theoretical thing before that. Yeah. But then it came right on it and it said, thank the Lord that dad had this set up and has always told me be your own man. So how many clinics do you have now? Six. So, and we see about 150 to 200,000 patient visits a year. Wow. about 250 employees.

Wow. It's grown. So when I came on, obviously as an internist, I said, well, half the stuff in the urgent care is actually poorly controlled chronic disease. So it just makes sense to make sense to, make sense of, I would say before COVID, my kind of specialty as an engineer was like healthcare delivery. Like, how do we make it convenient and easily accessible and low cost for a patient to access the care they need? And so with that patient body, obviously, you get to see the decisions you're making. I mean, did you sort of start working with all the clinics saying, we're going to treat this a little differently?

You know, comes in, let's deal with it as a vascular issue. Yeah, so initially, I mean, the first thing is pretty obvious. I have my own reference labs. So I actually have my own labs as well and my own pharmacies, which is a whole different thing of the Lord that I do that. Yeah. Well, because there was another issue. Yeah.

There was doctors prescribing Ivermectin hydroxychlorical, but the patient couldn't find, you know, CVS wouldn't deliver it, and so many of the pharmacies were pushing back. And so what I was able to do is I actually, was got one of the first, you know, antibody re-agent assays in my clinic. And I was starting to actually get antibodies on everybody. Not only, I actually went out to companies to try to help them reopen to be like, hey, here's who's had COVID, yada, yada, you know, like, and so I, you know, send, you know, I was just coming up with waste. As a small businessman, I was like, I want to

help y'all get open. Let's get you open. Right. That's, that was my driving. But because of that, I collected immense data. And everything that Fauci would say about waning antibodies and all these kind of things was not, in fact, you know, they wane after three months. No, no, no, they double in three months. I've had zero people wane, meaning like, it started to be like, is he even looking at the data or is it just, you know, is this what he's being told to say? Right. And so as I accumulated almost 7,000 antibodies and sequential antibodies, I was like, they're lying to us. And so in a sense, it was, you know. Now you say weighing the antibiotics from the vaccine or from the natural infection? This was before the vaccine. So the natural infection, you're like,

This is robust, robust protection. Yeah, exactly. And he's saying the opposite, which ironically, I've said it all the way through. We have never, I said it when it was happening, we've never had a vaccine that's as effective in creating, you know, protection as no vaccines ever been as good as the natural infection. Not yet. And suddenly, I said this would be the first vaccine ever. They're claiming the vaccine is going to be more effective than a natural infection without any evidence.

I mean, that's an extraordinary claim. You needed some extraordinary evidence, and there was none. Yeah. And then within that database, I was able to see who's getting reinfected. And do you know how many people got reinfected? How many? Zero. And so it was, you know, again, the...

So you were tracking it. Right. Exactly. As a, again, an engineer, it was like, we got to, you know, I have the resources. Thankfully, thanks to my father setting it up and being a smart, wise man. I was like, I can get this, I can get the assay. I can get even now to getting big microscopes that are a couple hundred thousand dollars. It's like, you know, I don't need a sports car.

Let's get some of this stuff. You know, like, whatever. And, but it was, it was, like, the question was, why is no one else doing this? Right. And so. Why is our government not doing this? I mean, like, you have billions of dollars inside the government. You know, Biden spending $10 billion, he promised, to advertise the vaccine and try to stop vaccine hesitancy.

How about a little bit of that of money to do what you were doing? Or even what Jay Boticharya did in Northern California. I mean, it's the same concept. It's like, you know, go to these companies, a lot of them didn't know they had, you know, had they had COVID, and you're like, well, there's like 10%, 20% people already had this thing, and it's like January. You know, like, so, you know. Well, that's where I got in a lot of trouble because I basically stated, hey, if you're

healthy, go out and catch this cold. Yeah. Like, let's get to herd immunity here. Like, let's protect the elderly. They're in danger. A lot, you know, stay in your houses. Stay out of the way. For what that's worth, let's see if we can keep your protective.

For all the healthy people, let's go out. This is an asymptomatic disease for the most part. Go out and catch it. I mean, I've got, I think, you know, I got attack. by the press. I want to talk about long COVID because this is something that you said because of your work, because you had some success in really protecting and saving people's lives during COVID, that sort of triggers into, hey, you must be the guy that helped me with long COVID now that I've got that. So what is just what does long COVID mean? So first of all, it's a poorly,

it's a poor term. It's probably has a pejorative, you know, basically I think the physicians have used it as a pejorative now, which means that it's basically a, as Joel Waska said tomorrow, I mean, it's almost like an abandonment term. Oh, you got long COVID, no big deal. But I mean, these are, you know, previous, some of my first patients would be NCAA athletes that used to run track. They couldn't run it all anymore. And in fact, their trainers would say, the harder we push them, the worse they get. Okay. And a 19, 20-year-old, you can't really rationalize that away. If your 60-year-old mom is all of a sudden, you know, kind of you go, she's getting old, she's getting forgetful, she's getting, you know,

but in these people it was obvious, you know. And so understanding the disease as a vascular disease, and then also being able to look under the microscope at blood, the research pectoris in South Africa was able to teach me how to use immunofluorescent microscopy within my lab. Weird enough, people are like, how she trained you? She didn't come over. It's like, well, you know, we have, the microscopes have the,

these massive cameras. We just had to wake up really early, but we would look at all the slides together on Zoom. Does that make sense? I mean, cool, cool, cool way to do things. And then when we started intervening on these folks, we would have incredible success. And again, that intervention was on targeting the vascular and coagulation or clotting consequences of COVID and the vaccine. And so the other thing is, is long COVID is not dissimilar from vaccine injury because

the pathogen is the same, the spike protein. The other thing that was mystifying to me was in July of 2021, there was a cell paper and actually the NIH sponsored this. It was done in Atlanta and Seattle. It's 250 people. They followed them from an infection in March, and we're seeing what the antibody response to the different proteins in the virus were. And the actual title that article is Broad and Durable Immunity from COVID vaccine. not, sorry, from COVID, not covexing, but it made the point that the spike protein does not elicit CD8 T cell, or what we call long-term cellular immunity. It only engages T-helper cells or CD4s. And ultimately it was saying we picked the wrong protein, okay? So it's not triggering

that sort of long-term memory. Exactly. It's a short-term memory. Not only that, the nuclear protein, which is the one they pointed out, that did that, is not pathogenic and it's deadly. It's not deadly. So it's not like the, it's that the actual weapon of the virus. So you would think the CDC and FDA, once they got this data, especially as they were touting this technology, which we can have a discussion about, it's, I would never give it to anybody. But if at least you were like, hey, this technology can turn on a dime, we'll turn it. Okay. Here's the info. Here's the non-pathogenic protein. It's the one giving you durable and blah. No one has ever made that point. Like I've been doing this for, you know, all the way through COVID. No one's actually made that point. The

entire genius of MRNA technology, if we're to believe that it works, is it's literally a computer program. I type it up, fire it, throw it in a fatty lip and throw it in. So the moment you recognize, whoops, we grabbed the wrong protein, shipped it out, get on the computer, pull, a little, let's throw in the nuclear caps in or whatever we think is actually better and wrap that in fatty lip and throw it. And no one did that. And again, I mean, at this time, I was speaking out about other things, my child going

to school and basically having to wear a mask. and I had some engagement with some of the respected infectious disease doctors that trained me at University of Alabama, Birmingham. I have actually, I mean, a lot of times had lots of different opinions throughout medical school and residency, but I didn't care. I didn't need a letter from them. So, again, going back to that hierarchical structure, but I'd ask them these questions, and their answer was, Jordan, I don't know much about vaccines. Okay, that's not my area. They probably know what they're doing. Okay. To me, I was like, that's not an answer.

Right. And it's literally right in front of you that this thing is, and you ask any doctor, what makes the COVID dangerous? It's like, well, the spike protein is able to elicit coagulation. It's endothelial injury. Yeah. Well, here's the evidence to say, no, let's change, you know, change the protein. Let's a less dangerous part of the virus. And not only that, at that time, there was also rat studies that were coming out that showing that the nuclear protein was important in viral.

clearance. And so on top of that, you're like, well, actually, that's the thing that actually gets rid of the damn thing. You know, and so you're, you're just mystified. And again, maybe as an engineering brain, I'm like, unless somebody could talk me out of it, you know, and they're convincing, they're convincing was, I just don't know. That doesn't convince me, I need to shut up. Right. Does that make sense? And so I was like, no, no, no, no, tell me about this paper. How can you tell people to get spike protein? When we know it is not the thing that's important and durable immunity. It also doesn't confer broad immunity, and it's pathogenic. Yeah. So. I was one of the one, one of a few times I was in a, I was being interviewed on the

phone, a very long interview with a, I think it was a New York Times reporter. And I felt like I got to her because she made this argument that the vaccine is safer than catching the virus itself. I said, I said, okay, let me want to challenge you there. I'm going to just, meet me, let me just tell you critically thinking from a non-doctor. The spike protein, can we agree, is the most dangerous part of the virus. It's what causes all the blood problems, coagulation, myocarditis, paracrititis. Oh, that's what she was saying. Myocarditis and paracotiditis are more prevalent in the live infection versus the vaccinated. I said, okay, but can we agree that spike proteins what's causing the myocarditis paracitis? Yes. We're agreed there. Yes. Okay. Now,

can we agree, let's all things be equal. If it's the same spike protein in the virus that's in the vaccine, it has an equal risk, at least, right? Can we say it has an equal risk? But it wasn't, by the way. No, I know. And I said, I have evidence that I could tell you that they've manipulated that spike protein so that they even last longer. But let's leave that out of the equation. Let's just meet me. Let me, I want to meet you right where we're at here.

Let's just say, same spike protein, one injected, one you're breathing in. And they even brag you're getting a higher load, more antibodies from the vaccine. Do you remember? So, yeah. I said, but let's just say equal. The vaccine is the same amount of spike protein as the virus itself, right? She's like, okay, I'm with you. I said, now you have one thing left that I'm going to.

going to prove it's absolutely a lie, which is it's still randomized if I'm going to catch this virus or not when it's blowing around. I could miss it. I could not catch it. It could not be near me. Whereas if I vaccinate, I am definitely putting those spike proteins in my body. So now I'm putting myself in direct risk because the worst part of this virus is being injected into me. So it only stands the reason if these are the same spike protein and they're not, the vaccine is worse. But even they're the same, more people are going to get myocarditis, from herricoriditis because you're taking away the randomized selection and forcing everyone on the planet to take this vaccine. And I really, the first time ever on the other side of the phone I heard,

oh my God. She's like, that's a really important point. I was like, I could go on all day with important points like that. And you're bypassing the most important part of our immune system, which is the original barriers of interface. Right, right. Your mucosal linings, your nasal, your eyes, your lungs. The activation of DNA to immune system. How much of long COVID, do you, because I can hearing this term. I actually know that you work with Dr. Redfield, who was former head of the CDC. I had a great interview with him. And, you know, he said, look, I think a lot of long COVID is actually vaccine injury. How much would you say? Is this a cover-up term for what really is more likely mostly COVID vaccine injury? So it is probably 80% of the people that I see

out of the 4,000 are people that have been vaccinated. I will tell you, there is 20% that never got the vaccine and thank God they didn't. Yeah. Because I have no question it would have been worse. Again, I don't have any way to prove that because you kind of got to prove it negative. Right, right. In a sense, but when you talk to people, and this is a lot of what I do is go through, okay, when was your infection, or chronologically go through their decline.

There are plenty of people that got COVID before the vaccine. And then they will tell you that it was not a big deal. then they get vaccinated, and then that's where that started. Yeah. And there's also many people that never had COVID, and I still have people in my database for antibodies that still don't have nuclear protein antibodies. None, unless. There's, because I keep thinking that's got to be a myth,

that there are some people that just don't, never caught it. Well, yeah, or their immune system doesn't engage to make the antibody. I mean, didn't have, like, a long-term memory, just, like, cleared it. Yeah. Well, not clear it. It's almost like the body didn't interface. So, I mean, there is a lot of immune dysfunction that comes from the, you know, basically the vaccine itself.

So you're actually disregulating the immune response to begin with, so you might not make. And so we've seen that in the data as well. I don't... Okay. So, but the...

There's no question that there's plenty of people that are just vaccine injured. Yeah. And the problem is is probably 80% of them now are both. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And so, but I argue and hypothesize that the vaccine, And because of immune dysregulation is actually making even their COVID infection worse in terms of its ability to clear and actually the outcomes. So we see that in the clinic. There's not papers written about it because they don't want to disambiguate this data.

And that's actually one of the things we need to do is every one of these long COVID patients. I only heard when you said it disambiguates a great term, right, they wanted ambiguous. They totally muddled up the data. They changed how we wrote death on death certificates to, you know, take COVID when they had an underlying heart disease that they were, have been dying the weeks before in the hospital. They just muddled up all the data so it's ambiguous. We cannot figure out what the hell we're looking at by design.

And even within long COVID, I think the reason that the long COVID data and outcomes and treatments that they've tried is so poor, it's from the NIH, is in my clinic, in 4,000 people, there are distinct phenotypes, and you treat them completely different, meaning the 19-year-old track runner is very different than the 60-year-old that, you know, had, you know, and so, and the treatments that work are very different for those people. And so if you're going to throw everybody into a basket on top of things, with even symptomology being all grouped together, you're going to have, really going to have no insight,

and the outcomes for any trial are going to be, you know, basically crap. This hearing, what do you think, what are you hoping when you're involved in a hearing like this, you know, it looks like it's like, well, let's all admit that the COVID-19 vaccine was a disaster that we should have had, you know, more access to other drugs and things. But at the core of it, what is the, what do you think is the most important thing that needs to be accomplished from a hearing like this? So I think it needs to expose the basic failures of,

of the entities that their whole job was to regulate the products and actually alert physicians when they saw a signal to allow people to know the safety of a product, meaning informed consent, which is what, you know, it's... Joel Walscott, one of the doctors, like, got it, you know, suddenly started collapsing in his own surgery rooms, right? And he said, I did not get informed consent. No one told me that there was an issue. I think it also needs to expose, like you have done for me three or four years ago,

which is the actual, this, as obvious as it was that it was done poorly, done speedily, done without proper oversight, and pushed on us without proper consent. That's not, basically, that's not, it is how it typically does. I think you at the time said, that's how the sausage is made. We were, what were we at in, like, in Nashville or something? Opryland and I think you were interviewing me. Yeah, yeah, I was interviewing you. I remember that vaguely. And I think I, like I did with Dr. Peter McCullough and you were very set on the problem with the COVID vaccine. I was like, you should look at the entire childhood vaccine program.

I've said it and Aaron said it. COVID vaccine is actually one of the best tested vaccines we've had, which it's a horrible. Oh, yeah, placebo control, large. I mean, you know. Doesn't exist for the childhood vaccine. We don't even know how bad those things are. Yeah, exactly. And so that that needs to be exposed. I think it can dovetail with the fact that you're actually not very well, meaning you're not as a patient or a physician informed properly about these things that you advocate for with no questions. The other important thing, and this is just my interest, is there are 10 to 15 million people in the U.S. that have long COVID or vaccine injury. And they have debilitating issues. And the interesting thing is, is these are not the people that you would

expect because they're not typically people with a history of comorbidities. These are the active, healthy, young people, NCAA athletes that no longer can compete. They are the 15, 16 year olds that are stuck in bed for two years, not being able to get up and seeing a pediatrician or even a psychiatrist that says it's all in your head. I mean, that is the ongoing gaslighting. As much as we've gotten through the, you know, that as much as the lies, we now go, okay, we see that those lies are made. The medical system currently is not addressing this, what I would call, I don't like the word pandemic, but I mean, there is a huge amount of people that are suffering. And we need an adequate way to, first of all, figure out how to help them. But also, you know, basically be

honest, like Joel said, it's like they don't need to be abandoned. And so I think that is the most important, I think that's what Senator Johnson's point is, is I came back for the vaccine injured. And I'd say vaccine injured and long COVID, because again, you know, they're both things that were wrought upon society by people that it shouldn't have been wrought upon. But that needs to be heard too. Yeah. Well, and it's huge. And I keep saying, until we get to the place where every doctor in America says vaccine injury is real and what you're suffering may be a vaccine injury. We're going to look into it. We have ways to test for that now. We have experts and specialists that specialize in how to take care of vaccine injury.

Until we get to that place, then we are not practicing medicine. And we are not being critically thinking. And we're not being honest about the products that we're using. And I think the faith of the population is going to continue to drop around medicine and science until we see that area of science be free and open and openly conversed and studied. Yeah, and an interesting thing that I've been able to see is I have about 150 doctors that are my patients, many of them at doctors at quite high academic institutes that you'd find interesting, meaning, you know, why are they seeking out care from me? The reason is, is because they have now realized how terrible and how basically ill-informed their medical systems that they operated in were. And it is terrible. that the only way that a physician finds out is for them to be injured. I know.

And that has to change. It has to change. It has to change. It has to change in the education system. And it's getting bad. We're all getting afraid to go into a hospital. I mean, now it's like, how bad is the break? Maybe I can set it myself. I mean, I'm literally like, I don't know if I want to go into that place.

Forget vaccine hesitancy. How about health care hesitancy? Yeah. You know, look, it's amazing to, I want to thank you for taking the, the time, both to be on the show, but also in this incredible hearing. I want to thank you because it's just such a pleasure to meet a doctor that is what we expect doctors to be, right? Investigators, trying to figure out, listen to me, you know, hear about my story and where I'm coming from and what I think is going on with me instead of this, like really, they're like robots.

I mean, you know, so much of medicine has just become this robotic, whatever I'm told to do, whatever the CDC says, and they bow down. And I think that culture is changing. And you're a big part of it. And so I hope, you know, by the time I see you next, you have 20 clinics, 100 clinics, we need more people that are treating medicine the way that you are. Yeah. And one thing I'll close with is I think one of the things that is the foundation of medicine is clinical medicine. And the problem is as the academic medical institutes and the research systems became prevalent and the people that are lauded up here in D.C. are people that literally never touch patients. Yeah. Okay. And so if you're just disconnected from the heartbeat of medicine, I'm not sure you can be a doctor or a good doctor.

Yeah. Well, you're right. And I think we've got great people in the regulatory agencies that know that to be true and are going to start trying to really, I think, focus how we look at medicine. But thanks for being part of it. Anytime. Thanks, Dale. All right. Great.