The Highwire with Del Bigtree - DR. PAUL THOMAS VS. THE CDC

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

Dr. Paul Thomas, author of Vax Facts, opens up about his controversial “vaxxed vs. unvaxxed” study, which showed healthier outcomes in unvaccinated children. After publishing the data, his license was suspended — but he continues to speak out, now suing the CDC over its untested vaccine schedule. He warns that pediatricians have become blind enforcers of pharma policy, while parents are waking up to the harms.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Confidence in vaccines is clearly at an all-time low, and they're digging their grave deeper and deeper. They may have just killed pediatricians in the process. This is what it's looking like in the news, though. Childhood vaccination rate has dropped again as non-medical exemption spike. Recent data shows vaccination rates are falling in cases of various illness are climbing. A growing number of parents are opting out of childhood vaccines, and health experts say it's already having consequences. The CDC says 4.1% of kid and gardeners, about 138,000 kids had a vaccine exemption. That out does last year's record high of 3.7%.

The CDC says exemptions increased in 40 states with 14 states having exemptions above 5%. Nearly all exemptions are listed as non-medical, meaning the children are skipping vaccines for religious or other personal reasons. You can see the trend increase for exemptions during COVID years. Health officials want to reiterate that vaccines are safe. We've seen that since COVID. People are questioning the safety of vaccines. Vaccines have been studied for years and years and years.

We want parents to understand that they're safe, that they're effective, and, you know, at the bottom line is just really to prevent disease. We want kids to be able to stay in school and be healthy. These rates are really disturbing. Well, he's the author of Vax. Fax. What to consider before vaccining at all ages and all stages of life. We've been tracking this guy's career over the last several years. It's been a hell of a roller coaster ride. He joins me now. Dr. Paul Thomas, thank you so much for being in here today. Let's just start with these news headlines. I mean, they're just showing like the, you know, the amount of people questioning vaccines is like this. They even admit it's all about COVID. since COVID, we've just really lost our way. And now AAP decides that the best thing to do is let's just double down on COVID vaccine for infants and children. Am I right? Is this the death nail? I mean, you're no longer practicing as a pediatrician, but if you were, what would you do if the AAP is called American Academy Pediatrics got that bold on a vaccine everyone has turned on?

DEL, thanks for having me on the show, by the way. The COVID, I like to call it a jab, not a vaccine. That thing is all negative, no positive. And for kids especially. I mean, the damage that vaccine, and there I go calling it a vaccine. The damage that shot does is astronomical with zero benefit. The studies you've covered them on your show over and over again. It's overwhelming.

We've had problems with vaccines for the last 20, 30 years. But this takes it to a whole. whole new level, right? So I'm ashamed of the AAP. I was a member for 30 years. So what is the AAP? I don't even know, like, because I mean, you look, Robert Kennedy Jr. posts that basically they're funded by the pharmaceutical industry. You don't get your license from AAP, right? It's not a part of like the boards or anything. It's just like, hey, I'm a member of this vaccine shill group. That's correct, but I didn't know that. So I was a member for so long because because they do some good.

Okay. We're all waiting. We're at the edge of our seats. Well, they appear to be advocating for kids. And so they have all these different committees, and some of it is to prevent human trafficking and to prevent child abuse and advocating for car seats. And there's all sorts of things they will do that appear to be good.

But where they declare for themselves what they truly are is on the vaccine issue. And I became aware of that 20 years ago. And I stayed involved with them just to be able to know as best as I could from the inside, what are they doing? And now, I don't think pediatricians realize that they are completely bought and paid for by pharma and especially the vaccine companies. It used to be formula. The formula still supports them, but it's pharma and it's mostly the vaccine. And they get massive amount of them. So there were the formula push.

I mean, a lot of it was like, let's not make people believe they have to breastfeed. Let's not intimidate people. I mean, yes, breast is best, but then here, this is what you need. And so that was the initial part, which I was so against, I refused to ever go back to any of their conferences because they were just bogus, non-science, garbage. But now it became clear that vaccines is their pet baby. And they are basically a marketing arm, along with the CDC, for big pharma on the vaccine issue. My, you know, when I first, you know, started touring the country with vaxed, you know, I would say pediatricians mean well, they're just misinformed. And, you know, I'm losing my empathy for this profession.

Because at this point, especially after what we went through in COVID, but at this point, there's so much science. I mean, you have to wear a blindfold to not see there are serious harms from this vaccine. Hepatitis B should be a massive question for anyone in infants. Why does a mother need it? Especially if she's hepatitis be negative. You know, you don't just have to find the high wear anymore. or any podcast you pop on, you know, whether it's Spotify or YouTube, everyone is talking about this stuff. So now you have to be, you know, purposefully ignorant.

You've got to be turning a blind eye and then this. Now you just got it. You know, everyone's being told, newsletter, AAP is now staying behind pushing that COVID vaccine. What do we do with doctors that just go, I guess I'm just going to have to suck this one up? I mean, do I have to cry for them when their careers are completely ended and everyone just walks right out of the pediatrician's office and finds a local chiropractor or, you know, homey, graph? We're going to celebrate, Del. Oh, okay. And as a former pediatrician, my colleagues, well, they hate me anyway, because I shone a light on the problem.

Yeah. And the problem is the whole vaccine program. The CDC, as you've covered many times, has never done proper safety studies. And the safety, quote, safety studies they do. There's no placebo. They're short, sometimes days, like in the Hep B vaccine. They don't look at all health outcomes. They cherry pick a few outcomes that don't matter.

And there's no long-term follow-up. I've probably missed a few of the main things. There's no safety studies. There's no study of the adjuvants. It doesn't have an aluminum study, a thimerosol study, a polyosorbid 80 study. And they've never studied the whole schedule. And foreign proteins, kidneys of like hamsters and monkeys and aborted babies, Like literally DNA from aborted babies.

What does that do in the human body? No idea. Right. So we've watched, and I've watched, as a pediatrician busy in the trenches, I went from, you know, kids were pretty healthy 35 years ago. Yeah. To, you know, greater than 53%, I think actually almost every kid who's vaccinated is harmed. You believe that now.

I truly believe that. You just don't recognize the harm. So, you know, I was. It could be latent of long-term issues. And chronic things, right, that aren't recognized as connected to vaccines. So that was where my study came in, right? Actually, the medical board was after a month. Let's revisit that for anyone that may be watching right now is brand new.

Our audience is always growing. Of course, you had a pediat, you know, your clinic had, how many patients overall in the end? Did you end up treating children? Well, I had 10 to 15,000 active patients, which means they've been seen in the last year. Okay. And by the time I had to retire, forced into retirement, I was less than 10,000. That's a long story. You take away someone's license and you lose your insurance contracts.

Your population goes down. They have to go elsewhere. Well, you lost it because you did a study on your 15,000 active patients. Right. Well, actually, the study was on every baby born into my practice. So not the whole practice. I wanted a nice, clean sample. You start at birth, and then you look at the difference in all health outcomes, which they never study that.

The CDC should. but they never do. Look at all health outcomes comparing vaccinated, and in my case they were variably vaccinated, not CDC vaccinated, to completely unvaccinated and see the difference. And we published that study, and within days of that study being published, and I see it on your screen, you're seeing the title of that study. Within days, I lost my license. I got a phone call from my attorney and says, Paul, don't go into the office, don't call any patients, don't write any prescriptions. Your license has been emergently suspended. And I said, why? He says, well, they had an emergency meeting and you are a threat to public health. For doing science, for saying,

hey, I just, I see a problem. I just showing you the data. Right. I have a very large practice. I can show you the kids. I can show you all that data. Yep. And it's saying what it's saying, and that makes me dangerous. Right. Here's some of the data, just so all of you can see it. I mean, look at this. You've got asthma. The red line is those that are vaccinated. The blue line, that are unvaccinated, allergic rhinitis. I mean, they're all through the roof, breathing issues, ADHD, look at that. I mean, it's almost completely a vaccine injury, respiratory infections, ear pain, eye disorders, eczema, something that are poor kids. And by the way, eczema, my understanding is eczema used to be considered a vaccine injury, really. Like,

if they started getting a rash, it would be like, don't vaccinate. Yeah, you go back 40 years and 50 years ago, that's absolutely true. We have since been trained, pediatricians today are trained that eczema has nothing to do with vaccines. That's crazy. And in fact, all these things that I have shown with statistical significance in a very well done peer-reviewed study, that these are directly related. Right. So we have three major categories of injury. We have the allergic, which is your eczema, your allergies, your asthma.

We have neurodevelopment, so language, speech, behavior issues, autism, ADD, ADHD. There was no ADD or ADHD in the unvaxed, zero. That's amazing. That's amazing, right? And Del, I have to tell you, this is something that a lot of people probably don't know, and I don't know if I've ever told you this. I was at a major autism conference with over 1,000 attendance, and there was a panel of expert.

This was back in the early 2000s. And I asked the question. Actually, somebody else asked the question, I just go, wow. The question was, to this panel, and all eight of them went down and said the same thing. The question was, is ADD and ADHD just on the mild end of the autism spectrum? Right. And every single one of them said yes. Amazing.

So when you know now that in the United States, ADHD is probably one in six, one in ten, one in eight somewhere in there. Wow. And that's the mild end. It's basically we're doing something to our children that is messing with their brains. And how badly it messes with their brains and exactly where it messes with that, whether it's actual toxic effect, whether it's immune activation, whether it's just massive inflammation, and we now have documented so many mechanisms of how this happens and why it happens, it's just a matter of degree. We are destroying our children's brains and their future, and vaccine's a big part of it.

But the third category that was very clear in my data is infections. So we had increased ear infections, lung infections, sinus infections, eye infections, skin infections, GI infections, infections, infections of all kinds combined. About 400 percent, three to 400 percent more. Four times the rate of overall just infections. In the vaccinated, and these weren't even CDC vaccinated. These are lightly vaccinated. Lightly vaccinated compared to unvaccinated.

God knows if they'd have had all the vaccines or just. So this night. And by the way, I just want to say, you know, I sit here and sometimes I think, well, people get it. And I, and I, then I remind myself at home, they're dealing with their kids allergies. They're dealing with their kids asthma. They know their kid is sick as is all get out and they're wondering why. So it's not like, well, who's this happy to? I've never heard of such a thing. Everyone is sick. Their kids are all

sick. They're sick, but they're being told by their pediatrician it's not the vaccines. Right. And I do think pediatricians, you know, your statement that they're just horrible, right? They're actually good people. Yeah. They went into pediatric because they love children, but they are in a system. that is keeping them blind. They are fed garbage, non-science as if it was science. And they are shielded from the truth, the stuff that we are exposed. Well, what does they say? The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I think it's led by good soldiers. And that's unfortunately what I think pediatricians are turning into now. Absolutely. But what the AAP has done now that we're talking about here, I mean, just in the last week or month, they've come out with a press release that they don't think anybody should should get any exemptions in any state. Yep.

So in other words, we are all in on mandates. Yeah. All authoritarian control of the vaccine program. So no parental rights, no rights to children. We're just going to slap along with the vaccine. You have no, I mean, essentially you are owned by the government. They're your government's, you know, children, not yours. You get overruled.

I mean, it's just a horrifying thought all together. And that the AAP would back that. I'm sorry pediatricians. Right. You got to walk away from this organization. Right. Instead of investing in a beautiful, colorful book, explaining how all the science is done, how the immune system works, why vaccines are effective, all the great studies we've done, links to those studies so people can read them themselves. Exactly.

But that's what should have been done, right? That's why you're paying for a membership is, will you please sell what a great thing it is we're doing instead of just bringing it in authoritarian control and saying, because we will it. All right, look, I want to get to the fact that you have always been focusing on vaccines and now you're taking it. another step. Yeah. You have decided that instead of, you know, you know, proving through studies which you've done that vaccines are making children sicker, right? Right. You are now suing the CDC for the vaccine program. That's right. You are suing the CDC for the entire vaccine program. Right. So you know this, but a lot of viewers may not. The CDC vaccine schedule itself has never been tested for safety. And they're supposed to. You just finished talking about how every two years

they're supposed to report on this. They've never done it. So, they took COVID off of Schedule A, right, where it's mandated. And now when you remove it from mandates, first of all, liability goes back. Yep. So if it wasn't covered by PrEP, which COVID has a little bit, it has that backup issue. Okay. But all the other vaccines, that would be the case. Okay.

So the lawsuit, our goal with this lawsuit, it's, I'm not seeking any money. This isn't about me. This is to protect our kids. Yep. So the goal is, one, educate the public. but more importantly to put legal pressure on the CDC, to do the right thing, to force them to take all the childhood vaccines

because none of them have been properly tested for safety off of Schedule A. That's just the first step. I mean, this isn't the lawsuit to solve all problems. But imagine if we got all vaccines off of Schedule A. Right. No more mandates. Yeah.

End of that problem. Yeah. We already know that more and more parents aren't going to accept them anyway. Yeah. So I don't know what's going to happen to our society if they don't do that anyway. I don't know what's going to happen if our schools don't change their requirements for mandates.

Nobody's going to go to school. You know what's amazing about this, and I've thought about it. It's though the AAP and those in government that have been shills for the pharmaceutical industry, as though parents, you know, want to have to go to the doctor and give them 72. I guess now it's 100 vaccines. And you're going to take away that visit where you inject my child. They scream bloody murder. They don't want to be there.

worst day of my life. Wait a minute, there's going to be fewer of those. I'm protesting. There's got to be no protest on this is the point, right? Nobody wants this stuff. No one's going to complain about a shorter vaccine schedule or one that I don't have to do. Well, the thing is, Del, we're not telling you you can't get them. Right. That you're, we're just saying you can't be forced to get them. Yes. So that's how it should be anyway. Amen. My whole career has been about informed consent. It has to be the parents' choice. And I watched over my career how fewer and fewer parents wanted to do the vaccines once they had the information. Yeah.

I want to get to the point where fewer and fewer pediatricians will even carry the vaccines because they realize, oh, these are harmful products. For every single vaccine, I'm going to say something controversial, I've said it a lot lately, for every single vaccine on the childhood schedule, you are more likely to die from the vaccine than you are from the disease that you're trying to protect. That's just a little piece of the puzzle. Yeah. When you look at the chronic diseases that are produced by these vaccines in statistically proven studies, my own being a big one, but mine was retracted so nobody can quote it.

It wasn't retracted because the data wasn't accurate. It was retracted on a silly technicality that was actually bogus. But there are other studies showing the same thing. Yeah. Everyone I've looked at, you know, essentially shows the same thing. And I've said this too. I said this to a New York Times reporter just last week. I said, let's be clear.

You know they've done the vaccinated versus unvaccinated study inside the CDC. You know that they've done it. And you know what? She made the point. She said, well, but you do have to admit this difficult because of confounding issues, right? The confounding issues thing. And I said to her, all right, I'm going to meet you right there. Yes, I recognize this confounding issues.

And for people out there, let me explain this to you. And this is what I said. I said, let me admit, because I don't vaccinate my child. I'm never going to tell you, by the way. I'm not telling you in the audience what to do. I'm just being honest, my kids don't get vaccines. They also never drink tap water. There are no Doritos in our house.

There's no Coca-Cola. There's no soda of any kind. We don't have processed sugars, any sort of processed foods. We eat organic vegetables. We're lucky. We can afford that. I hope everybody, I would love to see programs by the government that actually, you know, give you, you know, stamps to get organic food instead of OZEPIC, things like that.

But the point being, I admitted to this New York Times reporter, I admit that all of those things, and by the way, none of my kids or I ever walk through an airport scanner, ever. I will get patted down, I'll get the free massage, I'm not going to microwave me and my family. So many, many things we're doing are different than everyone else. So yes, it would be hard to control, is it the airport scanner, is it the non-floridated water, is it all the other things that the FDA, by the way, is set as safe, that is making your kids healthier. And I said, but here's the point. The only reason, Paul, they know there's confounding issues that make

this difficult to study is because they've done the study. They've looked. They've looked and said, oh my God, no matter how we try to control in this study, the vaccinated are, I mean, the vaccinated are clearly sicker than the unvaccinated. And this is what I said to this reporter. So here's what sucks. Here's what sucks. You keep reporting in your newspapers and all the news keeps reporting those dirty, you know, dangerous, sickly, unvaccinated kids. And I just, I know, you know, deep down by what I just said that the unvaccinated are healthier. Now you may try to put in all the other categories of the things that we do, but here's the fact. You just want to poison our kids because you want

it to be fair. You want them to be as sick as all the other kids so that you could even this playing field. That's where we're at. Yeah, that's one take on it. I mean, you lost me on that one. Way down the road. Here's the point. They've done that study. Because if, they know. If they've done the study and it proved that just very easily, we just compared all of our vaccinated kids in our database to all of our unvaccinated kids and the vaccine have less cancer. They have less ADHD. They have less ADHD. They have less autism. They have less cancer. Less lupus. They have less asthma. They have less infections. They get less infections. If they could say that, they would have. And by the way, Robert Kennedy Jr. would not be HHS secretary today if they'd ever been able to show us that study. And I would not have this show with millions of people watching if they could show us a study. showed the vaccinated or healthier than the unvaccinated, but they can't.

They can't because they aren't. They aren't. And we've shown it in our study and several others have done the same. And it's time for the CDC to step up to the plate. And until that happens, no mandates. Let's move all the vaccines to schedule B at least. So it's a decision that parents can make. I actually don't like the wording of, what is it, joint custody?

No, for the code. Joint decision making. Joint decision making. It's better than mandates. Right. Joint decision making between you and your doctor that was trained by a pharmaceutical-funded university. There's the problem with it. So I have a son who has a young child and his wife really wants vaccines.

So if she were to go into the office with my grandson, they're going to get a vaccine because the joint decision-making is with a pediatrician who drank the Kool-Aid who doesn't understand what we're talking about. So pediatricians need to wake up. You need to fire your affiliation, sever it completely with the AAP. They need to become a non-factor in pediatrics or we are losing the profession. I'm afraid it might be too late. I really feel that. I mean, because you're right. Well, because just like you, any, you know, unless they do it in mass, call each other.

We are protesting all together. And they're going to have to pull the license of tens of thousands of us all at one time. Because it's, you know, it's like you. You go out on your own. You write books about truth. You do studies. And you end up putting it all in line. I'm glad you did.

I love this. I don't know if this lawsuit can win. I'll have to have Aaron look at it. But I love the idea of it because it starts the conversation. Wait, somebody is suing the entire vaccine program because it's never been tested. It hasn't been tested. And it should be illegal. And I hope you win this. And we are certainly going to bring all the attention to this because it is time that untested products are no longer mandated into our children. It's just those days are over. I agree. Thank you so much for incredible work. Stick around for out the record. We'll get into some personal conversations right after the show. If you don't have this book or you have a friend that really needs to understand what's happening here, they're starting to falter. They're starting to question. This is the book they should be reading facts. Facts. Dr. Paul Thomas was on a long journey. Early on, he had, well, here's some vaccines are good in his original book. Now he's saying, let me talk about all of them and let me just tell you what you just heard right here. And by

the way, written by the guy suing the CDC over the entire vaccine program.