The Highwire with Del Bigtree - Episode 333: INESCAPABLE

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

Heroes of the Devastating Lahaina Fire Report from Maui; Jefferey Jaxen reports on the FDA reversing course on Ivermectin, and They Want Us to Mask Up Again Citing a New Variant; Are We On the Precipice of An Inescapable Pandemic Of The Vaccinated?; Heart Related Diseases and Death are Skyrocketing in the Young; New Bonus Series Launches Monday on TheHighWire.Com! Guests: Mike & Andreza Cicchino, Steve Slepcevic, Sam Eaton, Geert Vanden Bossche, PhD, DVM, Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPHBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Did you notice that this show doesn't have any commercials? I'm not selling you diapers or vitamins or smoothies or gasoline. That's because I don't want corporate sponsors telling us what to investigate and what to say. Instead, you're our sponsors. This is a production by our nonprofit, the Informed Consent Action Network. If you want more investigations, more hard-hitting news. If you want the truth, go to Ican Decide.org and donate now. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are out there in this beautiful world,

it's time for us all to step out onto the high wire. I have to say, for those of you that maybe you missed last week, I wasn't here. It's great to be back at my desk. I really missed having the opportunity to rant last week. So you may get a whole earful this week, but I want to give a shout out to Jim Mehan for stepping up, taking over here and doing such a beautiful job guiding this ship, this show last week. Amazing job. If you missed it, his interview of Kevin McKearman was absolutely riveting. We were sitting in the middle of our camping trip, listening to it ourselves.

I was a little bit jealous. What an amazing interview. So go back and check that out if you haven't had the opportunity. We have a really spectacular show today. In fact, it's almost hard to breathe in here. There are so many IQ points floating around, in the building right now. Usually the space is just consumed by our Catherine Layton, who I think is the smartest person on the team when it comes to science. But we've got in studio today, Dr. Peter McCullough and Dr. Gert Van Gogh. We're going to talk to them both about the different things that they're focused on right now with the COVID, the vaccine,

is it going away? What's happening with the rise in all-cause mortality? Both those minds together in one place, it should be really amazing. But first, the tragedy that I think has got us all just riveted to our televisions, praying, trying to give our heartfelt thoughts to those victims in the Maui fires. This is what this has looked like in our news. Maui is on fire. Evacuations are underway. Tens of thousands of people are without power. And there is already extensive property damage, including in the popular tourist town of Lahaina. Some taking shelter behind the seawall, others jumping into the ocean to escape the flames. Both sides to the left and the right are on fire.

19-year-old Noah Tomkinson waiting in the water with his mother and younger brother for five hours. This is the overhead view of the sweeping devastation in Lahaina. 80% of Maui's historic town in ruins. This gridlock of charred cars details the desperation. as many attempted to escape a wall of racing flames. Oh no, I'm out, guys. No, we have to leave. This is now the deadliest wildfire in modern U.S. history.

Everything in Lahaina has been decimated, including our house. Everything's gone. All the memories, all the places that we built, beautiful memories together is gone. And so I'm just grateful that they made it out okay and just praying for the best outcome for the rest of my family. The winds were howling overnight. And I even checked at about four in the morning because I was surprised that I had missed the, you know, a weather advisory.

And there was still no advisory. People were not informed except for five minutes before they had to evacuate. And this was via a cell phone message, an emergency alert. We have a tsunami warning system on this island. They did not activate it. Did you hear any alarms? Did you get any kind of warning? No alarms.

No warning. Nothing. No, no sign, nothing. We're worried you guys to try and get us out, evacuate us, you know? We're mad, we're mad. You know, we didn't just lose our homes. We lost our town. We lost history, you know? Our kids are traumatized.

You guys messed up real bad. And still looking for friends and close family. Wow, I just wanted to let the word no. It's worse than they take. While Lahaina sat in ruins, no assistance came for more than two days. Water, propane tanks, fuel baby supplies and clothing. People in this community are doing everything they can for their neighbors. They say this is way more than what the local and federal government is doing for people in Lahaina.

Government officials are trying to shut down local assistance. It seems like they only want FEMA and they only want the Red Cross. They are sending donations. donations back. If it's not donated directly to FEMA or Red Cross and they're not going to like let it in. None of this is eligible for giving out. Tell me why. I have no freaking clue. They're all fearful that they're going to lose their their property along with their home and their investment. So that's and you can hear it in the governor's voice when he or his languaging when he talks about rebuilding Lahaina. I'm already thinking about ways for the

state to acquire that land so that we can put it into workforce housing to put it back into families or to make it open spaces in perpetuity as a memorial to people who were lost I am so frustrated with investors and realtors calling the families who lost their home offering to buy their land how dare you do that to our community right now Shame on you. Shame on you. The world needs to see what's happening here, and the truth is not being shown. Just horrible images, and, you know, I have to say, in some ways, it's triggering a little bit of PTSD.

And me, as many of you have been watching this show for years know, back in 2018, I lost. My family, Lee and I and our kids lost. That was our home in the Maui, the Woolsey fires that swept down through Maui. I mean, Malibu. Sorry, Malibu, where we were living. And similarly, not a lot of answers to why there was no fire department or help in that situation. So my heart really is connected with those in Maui that have gone through this. And you really can't get a perspective and news cameras aren't allowed in.

So we worked hard to try and find somebody that had been in there that could give us some sense of what was really going on. And it's my honor and pleasure to be joined right now by, Mike Chikino, who is a resident, was right in the middle of it. Mike, thank you for joining me. Of course. I know there's really no words that can be said at this time when you've lost just about everything you own and watch the devastation around you. We have an image that you had as the fires were burning. Your wife and I, you know, I think in some ways wondering if you were going to survive it.

This is just sort of that moment that you capture on your own phone. Coast Guard, Coast Guard. And if anybody found this, it's pretty scary, though, we're gonna be okay. You know, that moment, so you'd made your way down to the water, it appears as those that survived, you had to get down out of the hills, out away from the fire and down the water,

reports of people hiding literally in the water. Tell me just how this, what was you? was your experience? We're hearing there was no warning. Was that true for you? How does this start in your life? What is the moment you realize there's a fire and there's danger? I just happened to leave the house just to see if I could make it to the other side of the island to grab a generator. And within 10 to 15 seconds of leaving my home, my whole neighborhood was engulfed in flames. But like you said, absolutely no warning. no siren.

We do have an alert system where it alerts us by text. I've had a little bit of a signal. I've never received any text. And at points when we did hop in the car, 15 minutes later, that's when they made the announcement over the, probably over 15 minutes later. That's when they made the announcement over the radio to evacuate. But by that point, it was too late.

Now you, you know, I know that when I was going through this situation, and when it happened to me in Malibu, I saw the fire again. I really didn't get warning in time, but it was mostly because I didn't have a television on. There's no sirens, but it was just coming down the hill. Again, for us, the wind was blowing so hard, and I just really grabbed my son who was with me. Luckily, my wife was out of town and just had just grab a few clothes. We lost everything, too. In that moment, you don't know where the fire is.

You don't know if it's wrapped around. You know if you're going to get down to the road. What was it like there for you? Could you tell where the fire was or just feel like it was everywhere? Well, first I'm going to say, I'm so sorry for your loss, and I'm happy that you and your family, you know, made it out alive. But being through that situation is absolutely terrifying. I know that you guys are probably still dealing with it.

You know, basically when we started to leave the house, which if you watch our live announcements by our government that they do, our governor and mayor, they are flat out lying to us on there as far as they're telling us and telling the world that they didn't have any roadblocks. There were definitely a thousand percent roadblocks that we could not get through. And if they would have let us through and let some of those other people through, a lot more lives would have been saved. Wow.

A lot of us are in shock about how much our government is. literally lying to our face and I was there and I'm I'm they were they're lying to everybody to they're just trying to downsize this and I think they're afraid of a lot of locals are going to freak out they're afraid of lawsuits but it's they basically at the because of that forces into a pigeonhole does into a death trap and a lot of people died because of what they did not only the warnings, but blocking us in from every road. And everything went wrong that day. They really did fail us.

You know, just from an outsider, and because, you know, on this show, we've learned to really not trust government a whole lot, and it's really failed us so many times. But one of the things that gives me the sense for being lied to is when I see the images that we're seeing come out of there, some of these photos and some of the video

that you've provided us, When I only see a death toll going from 80 to like 100, I think in six I heard this morning over three days, that seems impossible to me. It seems to me there must be a cover-up on the amount of bodies that are there. They're obviously trying to slow roll the devastation, figure out how they're going to explain it, cover their own tracks. And, you know, so much, when you watch so much effort going into trying to protect their own butts in the government, and we're hearing so little effort, it seems, getting the supplies, getting people to their home, you know, helping the people that are there. What does that make you feel? Anger. I can't even describe the amount of anger I have towards our government.

Before, I'd be honest, I had more trust in our government. I grew up, you know, that they're there to take care of us, especially in need. They're going to save us. safeguard us from things like this and warn us, but none of that happened. And as of right now, the FEMA is trying to take over, but they're not assisting us at all. I've had absolutely zero assistance from FEMA. They're saying they're giving out $700 chucks to people. I've never received one, and they're not going to give me one because I happen to run a business side of my home. and I also had a little bit of insurance but that insurance they said they can only put me up in a hotel room for seven days

Then where am I going to be after that? FEMA since I went to business is basically said we'll give you a small business loan I just want a place to live I don't I can't I'm I want to start my business back up but how am I possibly going to do that when I don't even have a place to rest my head at night? I'm jumping from that's my house I'm that you're seeing right now. Wow. It's completely, that was my business. That was my whole life.

I've lived there for 16 years. And even if I did receive that 700, living here in Maui, that's a night at a hotel room. One night at a hotel room for these people. Fortunately, I have family where we're jumping from house to house, but $700 is insulting for those people that are getting that. I'm glad they're getting at least $700,

But you have to imagine even our McDonald's is inflated here. If you go to McDonald's for two people, you're spending $50. Most of those people have already gone through that money, you know. And a lot of locals are using that money to help locals. And the only help that we've received the whole time that from this whole situation is from the churches, from the Calvary Church over here. The Catholic Church isn't even going to try to help out with housing. But the government hasn't helped me at all, my family at all. Similarly, while the fires are going on and there's very little help around,

you are one of those types of individuals that charge back in there to try and get some help, looking for animals and people. This is just one of the videos you were shooting while you're going through that experience. Asher, hey buddy, you okay? Shit. Asher, Asher, got to get up. Here, come in here, just head down that way. Are you all burnt?

Are you burnt? Are you burnt? Okay, you got to go down there, okay? Uncle. Right here's bad, there's a lot of smoke, you gotta go. Okay, let's, I'll be back. I'll be back for you. Asher, Raina.

Okay, come by buddy. We gotta go. The Coast Guard's coming in. Is this your daughter? This is Raina, right? Okay, oh, thank God. As you sort of made your way through the name, neighborhoods there. How would you describe that? And seeing most of us have never actually

seen a body. I mean, that was fairly graphic. Hopefully those watching aren't too offended by seeing that. But I think it's important that we get a sense of what that experience was like. I mean, I've never been to war. I've never been any type of disaster, but I would guess that it was just like a war zone. I mean, there's that body. people screaming, babies out there that I never saw again. A lot of people were, you could just see that the smoke was slowly killing them. And that's, you know, I was trying to run and help as many people as they can to get out of the area that they were because if they say there any longer, they would have just, you know, went to sleep and died.

Wow. But the best thing that I can describe is literally like a nuclear bomb or atomic bomb went off. but imagine that bomb going off continuously for eight hours so when we're ducking into the water or jumping in the water ducking behind the wall the flames were going at 70 miles per hour towards us it's one of the most indescribable or probably one of the hardest to describe situations and feelings it's hard to put in words it really is Now your wife was with you, obviously both Godway. How is she doing?

I mean, we're going through some mental issues right now. I wish I could say she was better. We're hanging in there. We're one of the lucky ones. We feel bad complaining about our situation. When there's people out there that are way worse off than us and getting no assistance, you know, those people that have lost their house, don't the family's dead they don't have any money um we are at least alive and have each other so

we feel very grateful um we are starting to kind of go through a guilt part of the grieving where you know why did we make it out alive why did we make it out with our lives and with each other and all these people are out there that um that didn't and then we also there's people out there that were helping during the fire and a week later they're still out there helping and having been left lehina and the local government's not in letting us locals in there to help at all they want to make sure that they're controlling everything so people are getting you know getting stopped even if they're trying to bring in donations so like i was kind of mentioning before all those donations that the locals are trying to help with are being brought to churches and that's how

i've been getting my help not from FEMA Wow. What are the next steps right now as you look? I realize it's hard to have any sort of bird's eye view in the middle of the tragedy there. So as you sit in the middle of it, what are your thoughts right now? What is it next steps for you? We felt like we just got out of a fire that was about to take our lives. Now we feel like we're back into another fire with the U.S. government, basically. So we feel like we just got out of a fire that was about to take our lives. now we feel like we're back into another fire with the U.S. government, basically. So we feel like we just went through all this. Now the government's putting us through more and just watching our, then flat out lie to our faces.

And me known for a fact that they're lying to our faces because I was there. And what they're saying is 100% untrue. There's way more bodies out there than what they're saying. there's a lot more and I can't give like sources or anything but they're anticipating over 500 but less than a thousand most of those are going to be children are actually not most but a lot are going to be children I have a lot of friends finding children out there these schools were off that day because of the electric so that parents still went to work but the children were stuck at home so they're you know You know, you could imagine being 10 years old, taking care of your, your siblings, and having a giant fire.

What are they? They don't know what to do. Oh, my God. But they're not announcing this stuff on the news. This is probably, you know, I'm mentioning it to you now, but they're hiding a lot of stuff from the outside world. And it's, it's pretty upsetting. Right now, we just want to hear that, you know, as sorry, we, there's things that went wrong. We're trying to do what we can.

but they're just so defensive. I think they're just trying to cover their butt right now and not get sued is what it's coming down to, which is just making it worse for us. You have a GoFundMe to sort of get through this. So let's just give people if you want to help out here. The GoFundMe.com, it's that Maui Fire, Mike and Andreza, Chikino.

So if you want to help out, That's how we do it. And I'm sure there are many, many GoFundMe's out there right now trying to figure out a way through all of this. What will you do with those funds? What's the plan? Well, we can't even find housing right now. We're jumping from house to house. So, I mean, we would like to do it so we can use it for rent food right now because the food we're getting.

We're so appreciative of, like, the church is giving us food. but we need more vegetables. We need real food that we can need, not just canned food. Sometimes we can get some fruit, which is awesome, but we need to start to get our lives a little bit back to normal. We would also like to start our business again because a lot of jobs here are gone. So our concern now is all the money,

we're just trying to get as much as we can right now because we don't know the future. We don't know how we're going to start our business again. And we don't, there's a housing crisis out here already. We're, if you wanted to buy a medium income house, it's going to be a million dollars here in Maui. Wow. So you can imagine with all those housing's gone, thousands of people displaced, it's only going to go up. And it's really unfortunate.

There's people that are leaving Maui that have been here, my, you know, almost my whole life. But I can't leave Maui. My whole family's here. my daughter's here. It's not a choice for us. We're going to stay and push through it, but we don't know where we're going to live. We have no permanent place to live. Well, Mike, first of all, I want to thank you for joining us and sharing with us your thoughts in this very difficult time. Our prayers are with you. I want to thank you for your heroism running in there trying to help when others aren't, others that were paid and funded to be there for exactly

those moments. Stay in touch with us. We want to, you know, sort of hear how this all works out, and maybe we can bring you back on and check in with you a little bit further down the road. Of course, there's so much going on here. There's probably going to be updates almost every day. So please keep in touch, more than happening, answer any questions you have. I also want to say, just because I have been through it, it does, you know, it is really hard in the middle of those situations, but there is hope, you know, just share with your wife that you know, we get through these things. Love, what doesn't take away is our love doesn't take away our relationships

and what you'll, you know, end up having to stay focused on. It's just that you're alive, you have your life, and now we have to do something with it. All right, so we'll keep you in our prayers. We appreciate that. And if I may just mention, there are a lot of people who need help. I always appreciate the help that anybody can give us. My four-year-old lost everything too.

but if you said please don't actually donate to Red Cross or FEMA for people that are out there, they're not helping us. Try to find local families that you can help. And then there's also a local organization called Maui Strong, and may have been helping out a lot more than the government right now. So I just wanted to throw that out there. All right. I appreciate that.

Thank you very much. And take care. We'll stay in touch. We wanted to also get a sense, you know, from people that are in the middle of disaster. all the time. We reached out to a good friend of our Steve Slepsvik, who is a disaster specialist, and he's joining me now with Sam Eaton. Steve, you see a lot. I mean, you've been at Katrina. You've been in the middle of events like this.

How does this compare to all of the disasters that you have been in the middle of trying to help people through those situations, their homes, their lives? How bad is this? Is it, as bad as it appears in the news worse? Well, what I can tell you is that for me in doing this since Kirklandrum, since 89, that I got in this business responding to both national, international disasters, this was one of the worst responses on the government side I've ever seen. So when you see the police department block in a downed line, but they're blocking an area where he's parked in the area where cars can get by

and cars are backed up for an hour and a half. Mike is correct that the response was horrific when you when you when we show up at the EOC and they have generators stack there and we're like hey we can bring you power we can bring you the entire thing to set it up and they're like no no we're good I'm like well base of results you're not good you have generators here but you have no latricians no cables you don't have this whole thing set up properly and how is it that a friend of ours can actually drive into town the next day unabated no security perimeter, drive by vehicle with burnt bodies in it as he's driving his motorcycle in it. You know, how can one of our friends then deal with these type of, just these images and the PTSD that's coming from it. So everything that Mike said is absolutely accurate. And then this is several days. So to me, accountability, right? These people have to be clear, concise. You cannot make

mistakes. And if you look at, they were the last EOC to open up. So they weren't property staff, staged, they did set, put the alarms out of the sirens. And their excuse of like, well, we don't want people to run up to the hills. What are you talking about? People are conscious. They don't. Hey, there's a fire up there. Yeah, how about I hear an alarm? If I step outside of my house, I will see what's going on and figure it out from there. I mean, like was Mike saying is he doesn't leave his house for his generator at that moment. He doesn't see what's going on. And I'll be honest, when it happened to us, I was lucky that I had a friend text me. And said I heard there's a fire in Malibu.

Do you need any help? I was like fire. So we didn't really have an alarm either. And I suppose it was being, I didn't have my TV on. I just had no, nothing on inside my house. Luckily my friend texts me otherwise. And I walked out of my house and that's when I realized the side of the mountain basically I live on was nothing but flames rushing towards me.

So all you need is to be told, get out of your house and you can figure out there. They didn't even do that. I mean, and just be clear, you're a private company. You don't work for the government. You go in many times, I guess, do you tend to work for insurance companies? Or who sends you in, Link? How do you get there? No, we work for private individuals.

So typically hospitals, ports, airports, private asset owners, commercial real estate owners. They know not to trust the government. So they call us in ahead of time if it's a hurricane, many times three, four days before, to shore up their assets to minimize the risk to put the comms in place bringing the additional paramedics bringing in the security detail bringing the fuel power everything else to keep that facility operational they know FEMA's not going to be there they don't count on the public utilities or the public officials to do anything for them they know they have to stand it alone but like you shared on the wolsey fire if you remember the fire departments were all pushed up to pepper dine and you couldn't

find fire trucks down in the lower area where people's homes were burning so similar to this, they had pushed the firefighters up into the mountains in this one region to fight another fire. When a fire wasn't completely contained, there wasn't any fire trucks down on front street. And then they had a problem with the water pressure. So when they hooked up to the fire hydrants, they couldn't push water out. You know, Sam, we had, I mean, it was, it's very similar. Many of the same stories that I experienced. We had, we paid, I think, you know, in Malibu, hundreds of dollars a month extra for a

a fire line, they call a water line, you're paying just to be ready, and then there was no water in it when we needed it. When you hear things like, you know, well, the electrical line came down, that took away some of our abilities to do things, and then you ask, I mean, any intelligent person says, fires bring down power lines. You weren't prepared for that. You don't have alarm systems that work in that. And we start thinking with all the millions and billions of dollars in taxpayer money that goes to special places like this that know there's potentials for hurricanes and things like that. How can they be this unprepared? Very tough.

Background 30 years in the fire service, been to quite a number of disasters myself. Also with the company, we responded to some major incidents. You know, when I look at, when I see what happened, you know, arriving here, it didn't have the feel of the disaster. If you looked at the infrastructure that should be there in place, the stuff that FEMA would normally bring in, the things that you would normally see, you didn't see those things. And I think it was most exhibited in the faces of the locals here. You know, when you're talking to somebody that's basically been working the last week, previously for this guy, we spoke to an individual that had been trapped every day getting up to bring food and supplies himself as a private citizen into to find a way to help those that were actually in the area of the line. in the Ohio area, to watch him break down in tears saying, where's the help? Why are we having to do this? Why are, why is Maui having to help Maui? Where's the outside help? And then you put it in

contrast to what's happening at the border of our country, what's happening in Ukraine, you look at the money that's flowing in different directions, but this was not, it just did not feel like they had a handle on a lot of things. It's easy to point at, please don't look at the front line, frontline workers or the firefighters, because they're being driven by their own policies and procedures, but also they have a desire to be part of that response. Leadership from above, I think, is where the mistakes were made. And certainly, hopefully, there'll be some after action where they'll look into the details of that. You know, I would say at this point that wherever you live, every different region has some ability to be pressed into a dangerous situation

like this. I've obviously been through my own experience. And there's things that we just weren't prepared for. We hadn't really itemized all the things that we own that I now do when I go into my house. We sort of stay on top of what is actually in our house, in our dwellings. But Steve, do you have some recommendations of things for people to prepare or should a disaster? happen? What's the best way to handle it? You know, for me, I always say have a disaster plan, more of an all scenario-based disaster plan for your family,

right? Because this stuff is happening constantly, right? So you have everything from having your satellite phone, a meeting place, doing the quarterly drill, right? The next thing is obviously documenting everything. Reviewing the policy, making sure that, you know, when it comes to removing

the policy, it's not just a matter of calling your agent, but I always say, you know, get a third party opinion from a private insurance adjuster, you know, yeah, in that capacity, you know, before you enter, another thing that's really important is that when people are approaching these properties, you have to know what the hazards are, right? It's structural, environmental, mechanical. You can't start sifting through the property and then there's, you know, without proper PPEs. So hire a third party environmental consultant in these things that are totally burned. And the ones that aren't totally burned before you enter it, there's highly, highly toxic. These cars

burn electronics there's asbestos lead there's all types of chemicals that were burned and now are blown into people's homes in the surrounding area so those areas have to be properly remediated then a third-party consultant environmental consult should come in there and provide a clearance testing that it's safe to reoccupy because i'm not going to compare it to 9-11 but you know how they they had multiple what was the number for the firefighters that got cancer from now frontline workers and close to 15,000 have gotten cancer since the actual event itself. Right. More people affected in a health situation from 9-11 than wherever initially.

Right. So it's going to be a toxic mess for a while. The trucks, the debris moving through those areas, you know. But with this, you know, for us as first responders, I mean the satellite phone store has always been really big for us on getting stuff for us when we're doing. need it. They're also there for the community. So a lot of times they'll donate the phones, you know, especially in those areas. But don't be that person. Get it ahead of time, you know, be prepared because these things are happening more and more, not just the wildfires and the

hurricanes, but as you know, Hawaii still work. We're going into the peak of hurricane season. There's another one that's just passing just below us right now. And those high pressure systems create what they call the Chinook winds and it comes off those mountains and any spark will just light up other neighborhoods you know it's very difficult for people to get in right for sure yeah something like no they've got the wind driven fire this was a fire that was driven by the wind obviously bad per poor conditions part of that drought like conditions and clearly when you have something like that you know early early warning is very important but

there's little there's little time to to to actually react and you experience that yourself del yeah same type of thing it is horrific what they went through and the people that survived what they saw, what they're exposed to, even just the visuals, but of course, the health side of this, those that were sitting in the water affected by this with the embers coming down, that very toxic, heavily laden chemical smoke that was on them. Many of them probably perished from, you know, basically smoke inhalation, even though they had, they weren't burned, they couldn't breathe. You know, there's just no, there's no space there. The real tragedy here to me is what's the response afterwards.

And that's where it really starts to look. There's a lot of lessons learned here. A lot of things that the Maui officials need to take over there. I mean, I feel like I sit here and think we're the United States of America. We're the richest country in the world. We have the biggest military in the world. We can go and fight wars that nobody even knows why we're there. in a moment like this, in the movies,

the National Guard is flying in, you got FEMA, everybody's setting up tents and camps and removing people through because we're a first world nation. What is going on? Why are we so incapable of having a response? Why? I mean, and it's every time it felt like the same thing with Katrina. Every time, it's as though we have no idea

in the, since the dawn of man, we've never figured out how to handle a disaster. I mean, I know you are giving you guys like you, And you give classes, you're there to teach government, you're there to help, you've been trying to get this. Why are we so incapable? What is it just bureaucracy is useless? And there's no way to ever get these people to do it right? I mean, it's so frustrating to watch over and over again this level of failure and have to accept it.

To have to accept that our government is this incapable of handling a dramatic situation. God forbid we ever actually have a war or something. come at us, you know, on our homeland. I can't imagine we can't handle a fire or a hurricane. What do we do if we're ever under attack? Yeah, I think the American people are starting to notice the emperor has no clothes, right? Yeah. It's an absolute. You don't have to, you just look at how it's, they're incompetent people running it from the top down. If you have poor leadership, if I ran my business like this, I'd be out of business. Yeah. Right? That's it. And there's going to be a price to pay the people in Hawaii are not ones to lay down and just take you know take it they're going to stand up they're going to rise up and they're going to hold these people accountable you know and and Sam was right some of the people that we've talked to are it's the Hawaiian people helping the Hawaiian people and they were they got to see firsthand the people that they vote for for every time when they come out hey vote for us vote for us they started to realize now it's a huge awakening sad that it would it would come

to this, but they're starting to realize really who the government is and how incompetent they really are. I'm just, I mean, I'm getting to the point now, and, you know, I've said this before I grew up a progressive liberal, but I want my tax money back. If this is the Wild West, and I'm going to be left on my own every time there's a catastrophe, then give me my money back and let me start developing ways to protect myself, because handing it to you is not working. I think so many people in America are experiencing that. Steve, Sam, I want to thank you for taking the time i don't want to keep you away from the important work that you're doing there since someone's doing it sam you have another thought just to say this there are some great people that are working

in the in these uh fema camps we have close colleagues and friends that are in there uh the there's great first responders the firefighters the law enforcement they're the people of mali they're the people of lehina um they had families there as well and i just want i want to say that from our perspective it is not against those workers of why work 30 years in the fire service, locking arms with law enforcement as well. And you know that they're going through a lot of tough time themselves. We pray for them. We pray for the people of Maui, for the people of Lahaina, for this community, and certainly those frontline workers that are dealing with the tragedy up front every day right now, walking through the streets of Lahaina,

trying to differentiate between what might be a body and what might not be. And that's, that you'll never forget those kind of things. So our hearts like, the hearts definitely go out that. I just want to throw that in there at the end here. I appreciate that. Sam, it's a good point. I don't mean to disparage anyone that's out there that is on the front line and our best and brightest and bravest do charge in those situations. Those that do that work should be commended. We asked you guys to put together a list since a lot of people are saying the money from Red Cross isn't really getting there and things like that. You put together a list of places that you are seeing getting the funding and are helping the people. So this is that list for those of you that want to reach out and try and do something. This, of course, will also be, if you are signed up to our mailing list, all of this will be in your hands immediately.

I'm sure we're going to tag it in the comments right now. But these are groups that are actually really are delivering for the people, and I think it's important that we support them. Steve, Sam, thank you very much for taking the time, and our prayers are with you and your work. Thanks, Dahl. Thanks for getting the message out there. You back. Take care. All right, well, you know, it's sort of everywhere we look right now, we are in crisis. I mean, I look at this nation, look at America, look at what the dream was, what I felt like I was growing up in,

and there's days where I just feel like we should be flying our flag upside down at half-mast, distress signal, we are in trouble. We are not, we're doing something wrong in how we're choosing our leadership. and I think we've got to really a tone for that ourselves. Like who are we electing? Why are we just continue to elect the same people over and over again? We complain about, oh, we need to reduce the amount of time politicians are in there. Well, yeah, but why are you voting for? Why is it?

We just keep voting for these people to sit like fat cats, having no connection to the states and the cities that they actually work. And I just think there's a lot to assess in these moments when we look at it. And I also want to say it's really disturbing. when you, I think it was the governor there, one of the guys saying, I'm already looking at turning this into park space and open space and, you know, utilizing people. Those are homes. Those are people's lives. And you're already deciding you're going to give that away to, what, a park or maybe a hotel and real estate agents calling. And we start, we're starting to see BlackRock buying up

houses all over this country, out competing us, making cash offers. So I guess that the W. AF can get to their goal of everyone's going to be renting. That's what I'm afraid of when. I see this stuff. You have a sense that in Maui, there'll be no one owning homes except the super elite, super rich. Everybody else be renting from Black Rock or, you know, any of those other large giant conglomerates that are buying up our lives. We've got to do something about it. Anyway, it's time for the Jackson Report. All right, Jeffrey. Really difficult to just, it's so frustrating at a deep fiscal level to have to have that conversation. It can be difficult transitioning from stories like this. And I just want to echo what you were saying. If people want to give money, get that money

to people known in the community. We saw through the responses like East Palestine, train derailment and Katrina, like you said, these top-down bureaucratic responses in the immediate time, sometimes do more harm than good. So get that money directly to the families or the people doing the work on the ground there in the communities that people know. I think that's really good. be the best way. But I want to take a minute here to celebrate maybe a small moral victory coming from that story for Americans. And really a positive step in something that we have we've tried so hard to do, which is get the government out of the doctor-patient relationship. Talking about Ivermectin, something we've covered here from the start of the pandemic response, the founders of

this drug, Nobel Prize winners for finding it. FDA approved as an antiparacitic been given to billions of people around the world. It's been called a wonder drug like penicillin and aspirin. Only problem it's ever had was it was found to have antiviral activity at the time when the world was experiencing one of the once in the century virus. And when that happened, this is how the media treated it. Remember? Words of warning earlier this week, the Department of Health reiterated its warning against the use of a drug called ivermectin. A new false cure for COVID in high demand. Ivermectin. Be aware that Ivermectin has not been proven as a way to prevent or treat COVID-19. Rumors circulating on social media about its use specifically for COVID-19 in India.

That is not based in reality or fact. The FDA, the NIH, the World Health Organization, and academic institutions across the world, not just the U.S., are not recommending Ivermectin for COVID management. With doctors unwilling to prescribe it for COVID, people have rushed to farm supply stores, buying and taking large doses meant to deworm livestock. Some tractor supply stores even posting these signs alerting people that the Ivermectin dewormers and injectables they carry for animals have not been approved by the FDA for people and could result in injury or death. This story blows my mind because you've got some anti-vaxxers who are unwilling to take

an FDA-approved vaccine. Millions of people have taken at this point, by the way. But at the same time, they are willing to put a horse deworming medicine in their bodies. What would you tell someone who is considering taking that drug? There's no clinical evidence that indicates that this works. There is no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID-19. Doesn't treat COVID, but could put you in a coma. It is literally painful for me to have to watch that level of incompetence.

And I mean, in all honesty, I suppose I have to have empathy because it's just sheer stupidity and lack of journalistic integrity or certainly talent or an investigative ability. When I hear the one news anchor there saying, you know, anti-vaxxers, you know, won't take this FDA-approved product, but they'll go ahead to use horse paste. I mean, the opposite is true. All you had to do is investigate for about three and a half minutes to see that the vaccine was being rushed with literally no safety trials. And Ivermectin a drug that's being used worldwide constantly by men, women, children of all races, all ethnicities,

every age known, every malady, having no side effects for very little. One of the safest drugs we know in the world. And you're telling me, you know, you're calling it horse pace. And I'm supposed to trust the FDA. I mean, it's not their fault, right? They think the FDA tells the truth. If you're watching the high wire, you know that that's as big as sham as the fact that the government's got your back in Maui right now. But, I mean, it's just, it's, we're going to play that probably until the day I die because remembering that, remember those fools.

And remember that your cable bill still funds every one of those idiots to lie to the world on a constant basis. Remember that when you're thinking whether or not you should fund us at all. you are funding those morons every day of your life. There they are. That's who you fund. Okay. So don't complain too much. Looking at the coordination of it all, what we probably just lived through was one

the largest smear campaigns in our lifetimes against a single therapy. And why are we saying that? Well, there's been a rapid switch here. FDA attorneys representing the FDA in an appellate court have just reversed what we knew about this drug publicly when it came to like that news reporting. Take a listen to this. This is actual court tape. Your Honor, FDA has multiple overlapping sources of authority that I'm happy to walk through. That gives FDA authority to convey information to the public. But here, FDA was not regulating the off-label use of drugs. These statements are not regulations.

they have no legal consequences. They don't prohibit doctors from prescribing ivermectin to treat COVID or for any other purpose. Quite to the contrary, there are three instances I'd like to point the court to in the record that show that FDA explicitly recognizes that doctors do have the authority to prescribe ivermectin to treat COVID. It's literally like listening right now to we didn't block the roads in, in Maui. It's the same thing. That's the government lying to you right there, saying, oh, we never, we never like shut it down. We didn't stop it. In fact, the FDA has

multiple places where we say you can prescribe ivermectin if you feel it's appropriate. Doctors always had the authority. I don't know what you're talking about. And what that was from was a Fifth Circuit Court in New Orleans, and this is revival of a lawsuit. So this is the headline here. If anybody's tracking this, how this story is going, Ivermectin proponents asked Fifth Circuit to revive lawsuit against FDA. That lawsuit was originally killed in December 2022 by Judge Jeffrey Brown. And Jeffrey Brown, this was the Ivermectin lawsuit. He wrote this in his decision. This was the final decision. As the complaint does not allege facts that overcome the defendant's assertion of sovereign immunity, the defendant's motion to dismiss is granted. That's the

FDA. FDA has sovereign immunity. So basically they can do what they want. But here you have this Department of Justice attorney representing the FDA saying doctors always had this but remember two of the people in this suit two of the three doctors one of them is paul merrick someone we've had on our show several times and if we go to the news page at the highwire we just recently put this up american board of internal medicine targets doctors merrick and corey citing claim of spreading misinformation and they were they were basically investigating them because of the flcccc protocol which involves ivermectin and other early treatments for COVID. And there's what they've said about that publicly.

So they're up under a microscope by their medical board. Pierre Corey literally wrote the book on Ivermectin called War, The War on Ivermectin. You can get that at Icandecide. Shop if you want to look at this. It's flying off the shelves now. By the way, here it is, folks. This is an I can printed book. This is the moment to get this.

This is a huge story right now. If you don't already own this book, it is time. Get it to all of your friends because everyone is now starting to pay attention. They're still waking up. Believe it or not, we have some waking up to do. We've got a few people, you know, stragglers out there that are starting to wake up to this concept. Get that book, get it to them as a birthday gift or just a friendly neighborhood gift. Very important that people understand this because it's not just, the thing about this book is it's not just about Ivermectin, though that's the title.

It's about this, the repurpose use of drugs. you don't understand is the drug companies are basically getting rid of drugs. They just want to burn the drug as soon as it's off patent because they can't make any money off of it anymore. They want their new drug to be there. So now it's Paxilovid. We got Paxilovine. Now forget Ivermectin throat and the garbage doesn't work.

Not true. We may be burning cancer, you know, cures. We may be destroying, you know, our future ability to handle some illness. And all of that's because the moneyed interest in pharma. This is a very important book that just uses ivorymectin. is a story in how to get to this conversation about should we be destroying every drug as soon as is off patent because pharma doesn't make any money from it or should we be looking into what other things they may be able to cure and help us with so really important story and that's

the greater picture here as we're going through this story this story is a template that can be used on anything on vaccination on anti-vaxers this coordinated assault remember the FDA says that doctors always can prescribe ivermectin well apparently dr. mary bowden didn't get that memo because she, according to the headlines, was up her medical board, investigated her Texas Medical Board files complaint against Houston doctor for prescribing ivermectin, basically. She treated over 5,000 patients with this early treatment without a single death. Ivermectin, she was vitamin D, intravenous vitamin C, zinc. Right.

I just want to take a moment to all those doctor friends out there that I have that did have patients die, that don't think Ivermectin works. 5,000 patients, folks, zero deaths. Did you have that record? Because if you did it, you have some atonement. You have some time. You got to think about it before you die. Don't want you to meet your maker and not having addressed the fact that you were fooled and you were dangerous to humanity. And so the medical board, what do they do? They came to Dr. Bowden. They said, well, you have to pay a fine. You have to go through reeducation classes. She said, no. This is what the headline looked like.

Dr. Mary Bowden rejects Texas Medical Board compromise, request public hearing over COVID treatments. It sounds like a great idea because the science is really there. Let's look at this screenshot here. This is at FLCCC. This is Ivermectin to date. This is the most recent 98 studies from over 1,000 scientists, over 130,000 patients in 27 countries. 50 of those studies shows a 50% lower mortality for patients being treated with Ivermectin. And remember, this got so bad during the pandemic.

Doctors trying to get this drug to their patients that, states over 12 of them had to start pushing legislation to it to enshrine that in their bills to protect these doctors from the state medical boards coming down on them lawmakers push legislation to protect doctors who prescribe ivermectin for COVID-19 yeah that really happened and it really got bad around August 2021 when this study came out this was a meta-analysis a large systemic review and these these researchers concluded there was moderate certainty evidence finds that large Oxiners of COVID-19 deaths are possible using Ivermectin. They say using Ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to

severe disease. Remember that severe disease where they said, we don't have anything for you. Just wait around, you can't breathe, then go to the hospital and probably get put on a ventilator. The researchers said the apparent safety and low-cost suggests Ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally. That sentence right there is scary. Significant impact. You know, I want to use this moment again because folks, we all just want to put this in our view of mirror.

this is dangerous for us. This is dangerous that our government worked this way. And let's go ahead and use the analogy looking at the Maui fire right now. You have the government saying there's a down power line here. We cannot let you down this road. In this case, we have a drug that people are saying you could work, but there's a slight danger. It might not work for you.

So we are not going to let you near it at all. Meanwhile, you're backed up a road. There is fire burning all around you. You just, I will take my risk with this stupid power. power line. My house is burning. Our cars are catching fire here. I'm sorry because we haven't done a proper study of this fire, this wire that's burning right here. We're going to get you all killed, which is exactly what happened. And I want to say this, you know, on the record, I've said it a million times. I don't care about a study in the middle of this. When we had this, we had a drug

that was safe being used by billions of people. The only trial you should be doing is, is it going to kill me? Does it somehow work with COVID and get me killed? Or if it has any potential, of working, this was such an amazing moment in medicine where they literally said, no, you are not allowed to use anything. Nothing at all. Doesn't matter if your doctor thinks it works, we're going to stop that. Hold on, you're not allowed to use anything at all. For the first time in medicine, the best way to deal with this virus, which we're telling you is deadly, is to do nothing at all. Don't use a product that's been proven to be safe with billions of people around the world. God forbid it might actually work. And where was the study that showed it was killing people?

That's the only study you should have used if you were going to try and stop this. Is it killing people? Is it suddenly killing people? This is totally a safe drug? If not, shut up and get out of the way. Let me drive past the power line. I got people behind me that are burning on fire right now. They're going to die.

And the doctors and pharmacists were literally turning people away. And why was, so that last sentence in that study, that this could have a significant impact on the pandemic globally. That's a very scary statement to people that are making a new vaccine. trying to push this vaccine therapy. And so why? Because the EUA, the emergency use authorization specifically states at the FDA's page right here that the FDA may authorize unapproved medical products or unapproved uses of approved medical products to be used in an emergency, to diagnose, treat, prevent, blah, blah, blah.

You go all the way to the bottom, it says when certain criteria are met, including there are no adequate approved and available alternatives. If Ivermectin was allowed to fly to be used and it was found to have a significant impact, those vaccines never would have shipped out. Warp speed never would have happened. This never would have been a conversation. And this was one of the studies out of Peru in 2020. They looked at, remember, South America, India, so many other countries already have these things on

stockpile because they're using them on a regular basis as an antiparacitic. So they had these. They're ready to go. And in Peru, that 25 states, they were using these. They just said, we have these, that they've been shown to work by some studies, just given to people, because we don't have anything else. And what did the researchers find? This was a pre-print at the time. So all the people that were saying, like the Fauci's and the people in the media were saying, well, there's really no good evidence.

Just preprints. They're not peer-reviewed. This one's peer-reviewed now. At the time, it has a pre-print. Now it has the gold standard. Reductions in excess deaths over a period of 30 days after peak deaths average, average 74% in the 10 states with the most intensive ivermectum use, as determined across all 25. states these reductions in excess deaths correlated closely with the extent of ivermectin use you go to the chart on this study and you look at the top left maximal ivermectin distributions through operation 30 days

at that column the first highlighted column negative 74.4 percent lower deaths 45 days 86.2 percent deaths then you go to the next column just the medium use you're looking at half it cut the deaths in half negative 52 percent and so on so you have a dose dependent response which is from this is I'm really like the best evidence you can have that a product is working. The less you give it, the less effect it has. You give a little bit more, a little better effect, even more, even better effect. This is what Pierre Corey was saying. You know, you have really the best evidence without stopping down and waiting for five years to do long-term trials.

And I want to say this. People say you're being hypocritical. On one hand, you want long-term trials for vaccines, but why not for Ivermectin? I know some of you are writing this right now. Here's why. Ivermectin already has been proven to be safe. being used by billions of people. It doesn't need a safety test. And as far as efficacy, if it's perfectly safe, then allow me to use it. Let me take my risk with it because there's

nothing else available. On the other hand, you rushed a vaccine that was killing animals and animal trials was a total disaster. We found out after the fact that you were rushing so fast at the speed of science that you never tested to see if the vaccine could even stop transmission, which it can't, didn't, and it will be a problem we're going to talk to Geert van and Bosch about in just a moment. So that's the difference. I want long-term trials for products that are brand new, that are brand new doing something and going to be going to human bodies. For a drug that has been out there forever and shows to be safe, all then we have to say is, is it working?

If you think it works, maybe the placebo effect is all you need. What we know is it's not going to kill you a pretty safe drug. That's where I'm out on that. And these studies out of Peru, out of Brazil, doctors had access to him, pharmacists had access to him. The FDA definitely had access to him. In fact, Dr. John Farley definitely had access to him when he did an interview with the American Medical Association in August of 2021, right when that paper came out saying that Ivermectin

would have a significant impact globally. And he was asked directly point blank, what do doctors say if a patient comes in and asks for hyvermectin? Listen to this response. There are many physicians out there who have, you know, patients coming to them that are asking for the drug. They've read about it. They've heard about it. You know, what is your advice about how a physician should respond to request like that. Yeah, so as I was thinking about this, I was reading the paper this morning, and there was a study just done in Maryland interviewing people who had not yet been vaccinated. And in this group, the person they trusted the most for information about COVID was their

primary care physician. So know that if they're sitting in your exam room, even if they're pushing back and giving you a hard time, they trust your recommendations. I would encourage them to get vaccinated for prevention. If they're infected and qualified for a monoclonal antibody, they should be treated. And if they're infected and at low risk for disease progression, insist on ivermectin, the best way for them to help everyone know if the drug helps at all is to join a clinical trial and get treated with a safe formulation of the drug.

That is so, I mean, it's so underhanded. Oh yeah, if you're going to get ivermect, just get in a trial that we aren't funding or doing and you'll be impossible. find it anywhere. But it shows you he's couching, you know, he's couching, he's hedging his bet there, right, which is saying, this is probably going to prove to work. It looks pretty good to me, but I work for the FDA, so I'm going to tell you stick to trials. Good luck with that. Totally reckless. In retrospect, looking at this with all the hype gone, saying patients come in, they're obviously probably having problems saying, look, I think I have this. I may have problems breathing. Can I get

this hypermectin? No, go ahead and take the vaccine and maybe go online and find yourself clinical trial so in a couple of years you'll know if it actually works so the the department of justice attorney says we've always allowed we never told doctors they couldn't they couldn't prescribe abpermectin really this is this is a twitter account that went out to the world uh the fdaa's twitter account this is what they wrote you're not a horse you're not a cow seriously y'all stop it and then you click on that link and it actually goes directly to a web page from the FDA that literally says why you should not use ivermectin to treat or prevent COVID-19 but let's just put all that for a second because that those type of communications work their way down to the individual hospitals

and pharmacies and medical boards. So it wasn't the FDA anymore. It was the boss in the office next to you that was keeping an eye out and individual doctors. This is an internal email from one of our previous guests from a hospital system in New York, August 2021 when it was all kicking off. This is what it says. In order to provide optimal patient care, it is imperative that treatment decisions are based on evidence-based data, not anecdotal opinions. With respect to the use of ivermectin, it has been and will remain until further notice the policy and practice of Rochester regional health and its hospitals to not incorporate this medication into the medical algorithm for the treatment of COVID-19. So it's not even an option. It's literally disappeared in the computer system.

You can't even write a prescription for it if you're a doctor. It goes on to say if a family references is Ivermectin. It is advised that all staff provide consistent message that the medication is not supported by evidence-based data nor approved by the medical agencies that approve medications and opine on the medications, safety, and effectiveness. So you're a patient in that hospital. Your doctor won't prescribe it. So you go to other doctors in that hospital. You go to other nurses. Everyone is an automaton saying the same thing. We have the same message. We cannot prescribe this. So you're done. And so you're a doctor. You want to buck the system or you're a pharmacist. Unfortunately, the FDA is sending out letters like this to the state medical boards.

This was to the chief executive officer of the Federation of State Medical Boards from the FDA. It says the purpose of this letter is to bring to the attention of the Federation of State Medical Boards information related to drug products containing ivermectin being offered for sale with claims that such products treat or prevent COVID-19. Recently, FDA has received complaints about compounding pharmacies selling drug products containing ivermectin, claiming that they could treat or prevent COVID-19. So it goes on to say, although clinical trials assessing Ivermectin tablets for the prevention of treatment or treatment of COVID-19 and people are ongoing, current available data do not

show that Ivermectin is safe or effective for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19. That's not true. Current available data did show it at the time. So they're lying to the state medical boards. And now if you're a pharmacist, you have that hanging over your head because best believe if you're a pharmacist, you received an email that communicated that letter to you saying, we just got a letter from the FDA, off compounding pharmacies or doctors, you don't touch these things. And that's where the medical board starts getting it on the high horse and saying,

anybody prescribing this is going to get their license looked at and reviewed and their documents. So I think really it just up. And it makes me just think in this moment for all of those that did go to these compounding pharmacies that put it all on the line to provide ivermectin and we were getting for our families and others, probably time to deliver some families to those groups for standing and taking on that risk under that heat. and just say thank you for being a doctor, thank you for being an American, thank you for being open-minded and being there for us.

These were critical moments, and those of us that survived, many of us, and especially those that were failing in health that really needed these things, lives were saved by those compounding pharmacists and those doctors that were brave enough to be there for their patients. And I wanna show one image,

just to put a cap on this segment here. This was shared by Pierre Corrie, I believe it was from Chief Nerd on Twitter. He's doing a lot of great work on this topic. And you can see here, this is the vaccine rollout, distributed vaccines from the beginning, from the first shots, all the way to current present day. You can see this huge wave of the vaccine.

Millions of people took it in the United States. And then right at the end there, no one's taking anymore. That's when the FDA attorney, the Department of Justice Attorney says the FDA allows doctors to prescribe this. And so that's where we're at. Right now, thank God, We're at the point where these vaccines aren't really being given too much anymore.

The uptake is extremely low. And we can start looking at sorting out some of these, they call them post-marketing adverse events, but we've been on this from the beginning, myocarditis. We're some of the first to report on that, the thrombosis, the strokes, the cancer is showing up. And now we have some other headlines here. We're going to start just looking into this as an ongoing investigation. This is men's health. pretty catchy headline here. Yes, leprosy is back.

Wow. Remember, leprosy, this was this, like, when it brings thoughts of this, like middle age, dark ages. I think of Jesus, man. I mean, I think of Jesus in the leper colonies. I mean, this goes back. This is like biblical here. I didn't think I'd ever, I mean, you hear about this in the modern world. So right now it's in Florida. Here's one of the headlines, how leprosy arrived in Florida and how it is spreading nuclear. clues are emerging. It says in this article about 95% of people have natural immunity to the bacteria that causes leprosy. Scientists still are researching why 5% of people are vulnerable. This is one of the people in Florida that has a 50-year-old man. And what's interesting about

the Florida case is it's people that haven't come from other countries. So when you go to the CDC's definitions of this, of leprosy, they call it Hanson's disease now in order just to take away the stigma of the name leprosy. But it says Hanson disease, also known as leprosy, is very rare in the United States with less than 200 cases reported per year. Most people with Hanson disease in the U.S. become infected in a country where it is common. So this is one of the people, they're scratching their heads in Florida saying we really don't know what's going on here. We found the bacteria on an armadillo. Maybe people are touching armadillo. These people are, a lot of them are certain percentage of them are coming, aren't coming from other countries here. So kind of just scratching our

heads here. But what we do here, we start looking at the literature. And what was the biggest experiment we just went through? Well, it was an immune tinkering vaccine that was given to a lot of people. So we found this. COVID-19 vaccination and leprosy. Yes, this is actually a study, a UK hospital-based retrospective cohort study. What do they find? SARS-CoV-2 vaccination was associated with the development of leprosy in one individual and a type one reaction in another. Both men develop their leprosy, adverse reactions following vaccination with Pfizer's COVID shot, although each, in each case, it was not their first SARS-CoV-2 vaccination either had received. This may be due to increase TNF alpha and interleukin-6 after Pfizer's COVID vaccination second dose. So these researchers said, wait a minute,

we found these reactions that are associated with this vaccine. Let's look at the literature. Is there any other comments in the literature? There are any other studies about this? And this is what they found. In this study, they write, we identified 14 individuals men and women with leprosy adverse events associated with SARS-CoV-2 vaccines in six published reports from both leprosy endemic and non-indemic settings. So again, Florida is a non-indemic setting right now, but if cases are still being found, that could switch to an endemic setting. And so we go back to a study. We've gotten a lot a mileage from this study. It's the Pfizer's MRNA vaccine against SARS-CoB2 reprograms both adaptive and innate immune responses. So remember, you have the toll-like receptors. You're finding these,

it regulates, it down-regulates a toll-like receptors. These are the watchdogs of the immune system when these foreign invaders, whether it's a virus or a bacteria or what else comes in, that that's what gives the alarm system off. So you start looking into the literature and you see this study, leprosy and the adaption of the human toll-like receptor 1 that says, we currently conducted an association analysis of more than 1,500 individuals from different case controls and family studies and observe consistent associations between genetic variations in both toll-like receptor 1 and HLADRB-1 regions with susceptibility to leprosy. The effect sizes of these associations suggest that TLR1 and HLADRB-1 are major susceptibility genes in susceptibility to leprosy.

So they're basically saying that when there's variants in these tolic receptors, genetic variants, there's major susceptibility. Now, the leprosy or the Hansen's disease, if we want to call it by its current name, is not the only skin condition that is being affected by or associated with these vaccinations. We have herpesoster reactivation. This was a study after mRNA and adenovirus vector coronavirus vaccines. And this was a national health insurance database. So these are, they're looking at the database where someone comes into the doctor's office.

They're actually diagnosed with this. It goes into their medical record. So these are a little more set in stone because this is something that's in the health system now. And they find that Pfizer's COVID shot had a statistically significant increased risk in the 14-day window following vaccination. They concluded that MRNA COVID vaccination possibly increases the risk of herpes osteosol reactivation and thus close follow-up for herpes ulcer reactivation is required. Think about this. You're a doctor. You give this shot. You have to watch them for 15 minutes now for antifalaxis. You got to watch them for the first couple of weeks at least for myocarditis.

And then you have, you know, it's potential of cancer that's floating around. You may have to watch them for that. And now for 18 days it's herpesoster reactivation. So the doctors have their work cut out for them that are given these vaccines. I can tell you that. Amazing reporting. Very scary. And I think you just simply put, if you're new to the high wire, you can rewere. what you want on Wikipedia, they'll try to scare you away from listening to the truth here. Everything that we're giving you is peer-reviewed science. Some of it is pre-prints. Some of this ends up proving to weigh out, like the ivermectin. We were giving you pre-print information while it was happening. Now it's fully peer-reviewed. Some of it will tell you if it looks like the thoughts have changed around this. But one thing we do know, this vaccine was designed,

designed to mess with your toll-like receptors, really those guardians of your immune system. If you shut those down, then we will start seeing herpesos, these things that can be carried in your body but not affecting you. What happens to leprosies? So this idea that you have that you are making yourself stronger by taking vaccines and priming your immune system, you know, I don't know where it gets out of control. Maybe it worked when there was two or three vaccines. Maybe when we started giving you 72 vaccines or adding MRNA. But somewhere in here, we're starting to see a lot of sick people, rises in autoimmune disease, inability to handle just basic infections and things that you should normally have natural immunity to.

Are we erasing our immunity through the overuse of these pharmaceutical products? All these are part of the conversations that are happening here. Very interesting. Hopefully, leprosy will not start to run rampant across America. It's bad enough that we can't handle a fire. It would really be terrible if we start dying from a disease we thought was handled back when, the Bible was being written. All right, Jeffrey, thank you very much for your incredible reporting. We have some bonus material coming your way. One of the things that we've noticed is so many

of you are complaining, like I only see you on Thursday, can't you do something else, some other part of the week? Well, we've put together to the Freedom Files. Jeffrey Jackson and I interviewed a lot of really brilliant individuals on many different topics discussing freedom, not just your health freedom, but also your financial freedom, things like that. we have a series that's going to be released. If you want to know when we're airing those things, all you have to do is just sign our mailing list right now, get on the mailing list, and we will deliver that information to you.

It's just down the page right now. This is just one of the many great things, like all of the data, all the information, all the trials you see in every one of our episodes, all you had to do is put in your email right there, and you get our evidence, not just our word. I don't want you running out of this saying, this is what Del Vigree said on the high wire.

No, this is what the FDA wrote. This is in their own words. This is what the FDA person said themselves in court, works a lot better in those arguments you're having at the dinner table when friends and family are over. This is a little taste of what the Freedom Piles is going to be like. We're here in the middle of Memphis, the convention center for this year's Freedom Fest, a libertarian extravaganza.

I'm here with Robert Enlop. Mr. Avicroy. Larry Sharp. I'm here with Michael Shermer, Science Historian. You're also, this is your magazine, right? Skeptic magazine. That's it, about it in 1992. You are a noted human rights activist

for experience at Tiananmen Square. Really incredible speakers talking about, what does it mean to be free? It was amazing what governments can do to manipulate their population when they have the right data to be able to do so. New York City during the lockdowns, at 7 o'clock at night,

everyone would get out on their windows and clap. And we'd owe clap for the people who were saving us. First one was fun. clapping for our jailers. That is literally like next level Stockholm syndrome. So we just started cranked in action and said, look, we have to build the scientific case for Congress, for the White House, for governors, for state legislatures, for school districts. Yeah. Where we say, instead of thinking about how to keep everyone shut down, let's use all the available data we have to say what can safely reopen.

I was outspoken about school closures and other restrictions to do. children, toddler masking, I was very focused on children. I am one who believes that the inflation was a byproduct of their disastrous decision to shut us down as an economy. So many interesting conversations and we're going to be having them here. I grow up in the space where there is no freedom of press. There is basically zero freedoms that we know as human rights. I'm a survivor of the TEMMA massacre as someone who was there for.

first and I'm asked to leave. It's my duty to tell the world what happened. I want to just stand up for innocent people who don't have a voice and be their voice. The decision was easy. We really all want the same thing and that is to live and to have access to life at its highest level. And when that is taken away, you know, thus the struggle. you know, emerges. We are far more the same

than government tries to fool us that we're not. The theorem here is really clear, and it's math. It's not left-wing, it's not right-wing, it's not Republican, Democrat, liberal or conservative. Debating is a natural process of life. Autism rates may not actually be increasing. The category may be expanding that more people are being diagnosed on the spectrum,

which has got broader. I think that's one of the stupidest scientific statements ever made. Keep punching and keep punching. And we'll know what it's going to change when we see the enforcers refuse to enforce. I'm more into fighting for freedom of speech, human rights, and I don't think human rights should be political. Unfortunately, it is, but that's the narrative I'm trying to change. This is the single greatest threat to our liberties that is being advanced by the federal government today, and we've got to stop. May we all continue to do our work to help freedom reign.

There's so much more programming we want to do for. This is just a taste of the things we're working on a new series right now that hopefully will be ready sometime in the fall or winter with Jeffrey Jackson and looking at some other voices out there. But there's only so much we can do with the beautiful donations we get from you. And I've said it before, I said it just a couple of weeks ago. We've really expanded our audience and we've expanded our reach and what we want to do and what we can do, but we are limited by how much you decide to be involved.

I asked, I'll be honestly, I got a call from Aaron, Siri, our lawyer this week saying, is there any way that we can try and raise some more funds? There's a bunch of legal cases I want to do right now, and we're just right at the limit. I'm actually going to come up a little bit short this month. I want to be clear. We are not like dropping backwards. What we want to do is we want to continue to grow. We are holding.

You guys have been brilliant all this time, and I know many of you are donating now to, you know, the possibility of change in presidential. candidates you like out there and so we're all competing to be able to do something but this is the one space where we're actually bringing lawsuits against the government in the united states the fdaa the cdc health and human services we're the only ones that are bringing back your right to the religious exemption like we did in mississippi we're fighting in west virginia i've a very inspired lawyer in erin syri that we are working together we have really great ideas but at this moment right now i'm just being honest with you we can only track it exactly

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that have made all the great miracles possible that we've been involved in here. I want to thank you for being a recurring donor. For those of you that are joining us today, welcome to the network, the informed consent action network, where you actually get to be a part of change. All right, over the last couple of years throughout COVID, we brought you some of the greatest minds in science

that were bringing different perspectives on what they saw there. One of the most controversial, powerful, and perhaps horrifying was Gert Van Den Bosch, who had an incredible background from veterinary medicine all the way into working on the the Ebola vaccine trials, I will say right now for anyone that wants to challenge it, he's pro-vaccine, he has his perspective on those things, we may get into that a little bit, but when

he decided in his world of really loving vaccines that this is one that was going to cause a lot of harm, it brought a lot of attention to us, and we want to bring attention to that thought. This is what he was saying just over the last couple of years. Take a look at this. Dear colleagues at the WHO, my name is Geert van der LeBos. I'm urging you to immediately open the scientific debate on how human interventions in the COVID-19 pandemic are currently driving viral immune escape. It's first and foremost deliberate on a scientifically justified strategy, to mitigate the tsunami of morbidity and letality that is now threatening us.

If you are now vaccinating people during a pandemic, that means that the antibodies are mounting while they can be confronted with the virus. There you start to put immune pressure on the virus. This can only lead to. to natural selection of the fittest, and it will ultimately become the dominant variant. So that means only people who will still have their innate immunity intact have a chance, have a chance to survive.

The safety impact will be tremendous and will be of an order of magnitude that is not even comparable to the side effects we are talking about. This is a second mass vaccination during a premonious. pandemic, a pandemic of a high infectious virus this time, right, with non-neutralizing antibodies that have been boosted, that are going to be boosted because they are directed against an antigenic side. So your new neutralizing antibodies have no chance whatsoever. My frustration is that the message is so difficult to convey, whereas this naive narrative that these guys are spreading is so easy for people to understand. It's basically, you know, shut up.

and get yourself vaccinated and also get your kids vaccinated, which is the biggest disaster ever, because this is the biggest reservoir for herd immunity. They have innate immunity, they can clear this virus. They are the vacuum cleaners, and they will eliminate the virus from a public health view point. A disaster, not only for the child, but also, and the more children we will vaccinate,

the more we will, of course, expedite, is immune escape, and get to this kind of variant that will not only be highly infectious, fully resistant to the vaccines, and also highly virulent. If they don't believe me, they should simply wait and see what is going to happen. But it will be too late. The losses will be unprecedented. Well, for many of us that were, you know, watching here at Van and Bosch for the last couple of years,

I think a lot of us, our shoulders went down. It was something that, you know, I was saying, I hope that this doesn't prove to be true. This idea that the vaccine would pressure the virus to become more deadly, maybe override the vaccine and push so many into a deadly position. But before you think this might be over, Gert Van Bosse has continued to write on this subject and his most recent article is this. Immunological correlates of vaccine breakthrough infections caused by SARS-CoV-2 variants in highly COVID-19 vaccinated populations. This is an ongoing investigation for Geerton. I've been wanting to have him on the show for quite some time, but I've been busy, he's been busy,

but in trying to prepare for this, I said, is there a way to sort of simplify this into a message that can get out of the public? This is what he sent to us. This is the graphic that he gave us, and you can see the variable immunodominant epitopes, the conserved immune subdominate epitopes. You can see the arrows and slides and things like that.

He explains it a little bit clearer with this. this line right here, BBTIs trigger immune refocusing and thereby elicit broadly cross-functional antibodies and potentially pathogenic isotope switched IGG4 antibodies, SIR enabling BBTIs drive large-scale viral immune escape in vaccines by reorienting the immune response to S-associated antigenic sites that prime broadly functional antibodies with low affinity. All right, you get the idea as I read through that. this is the type of hell that I live in. I have to try and make that make sense.

Luckily for me today, I have in studio, the one, the only, Dr. Gert van den Bosch. It's really a pleasure to have you here in person. We had the opportunity to actually meet back in England just over a year ago. So it's really great to be here. I want to say right now we're about to have a conversation that part of my concern is this,

that I feel like the government that I live in, you're from Belgium, that's where you're living, really likes to ramp up fear around this virus, and I feel like they're starting to talk about new variants, and they're ramping up that fear and concern again, and I don't like sort of helping them with that job. But I also don't want to be at the sleep at the wheel if there's the potential that people could be at real risk.

And so I think the best thing I can say to the audience right now is I don't know. I don't know what's true, what's not, but you, there's much of what you said. We watched the variance. You said we are going to see just a ramping up of the amount of variance. And I don't know what the normal, you know, course of variance by COVID every season is, but there was a lot. And it felt like that pressure was doing something. To be clear and to try and keep it simple, are you still concerned? that this virus is not done mutating and could be potentially dangerous in the future?

Yeah, well, I'm highly, highly concerned. And the reason is that, well, don't listen what our authorities say because simply they don't understand. They don't understand where this is going. And they are trying to make us believe that the diminished pathogenicity that we are seeing right now in terms of COVID, right? Yeah, it seems like it's mostly nothing, Burger, everyone seems to be doing fine.

Exactly, exactly. That the diminished pathogenicity we are seeing and the diminished concentration of the virus in like wastewater, because that is the way they are now measuring. This is now to say like a proxy for measuring transmission. Okay. The concentration in the wastewater.

I know they do this with polio around the world. Is there polio in a village or something? They detect the water. You know, we can come back to this. For me, this is not. a parameter to measure transmission. Okay. But the diminished pathogenicity combined with, let's say, lower concentrations of the virus in

wastewater, for them, this is now a sign that we have, so to say, herd immunity and that the virus is entering into endemicity, right? Okay. On the other hand, everybody knows this is not my theory. Everybody can see this. These are the data. We still do have cases of COVID-19. We even have severe cases of COVID-19.

We still have a lot of transmission of COVID-19. We still have a lot of evolution of the virus. Suffice us to follow this, you know, these people who are watching, spotting all these mutants. Well, I can tell you, Dell, that all of this contradicts hurt immunity. When you have a pandemic, because then the WHO is saying, the acute phase of the pandemic is over or the emergency phase of the pandemic is over. What does that mean?

Because if you normally have a pandemic, you have an acute phase, which is D-wave or maybe two waves. And then it enters into endemicity. So there is only two phases, the acute phase, which is the wave, and the other is not even the pandemic anymore. It's the endemic phase. So we are clearly seeing an evolution of the virus that clearly illustrates that we don't have herd immunity. Because during a natural pandemic, you see none of this. The transmission is severely diminished, right? That is almost the definition of herd immunity.

The virus is no longer evolving. Of course you will still see mutants, but they will not become dominant. Here we are talking, when I'm talking about the mutants, I'm talking about mutants that become dominant. So there is still a lot of transmission. So they mutate, then that new mutation takes over being, you know. That is the whole thing, Del, because why does it take over? It can only take over if the environment it is in is in general hostile to it. So that means if you have, like, you know, large cohorts of people that are exerting immune pressure

that is suboptimal, that does not sterilize, then of course, you know, you can start to do natural selection and viruses. Mutants that happen to have a competitive advantage will take over. So that is, the mutants you have them all the time, but for a mutant to become dominant, that only happens, in this case, on a background of large-scale suboptimal immune pressure. And that is very, very worrisome. So I'm saying what we are seeing right now has absolutely nothing to do. And people should be very clear about this with herd immunity, right? And I can tell you that they are in fear, of course, that, you know, another virulent mutant could come back, one that would be virulent in the kind of environment that we have been generating, namely the artificial immunity in a highly

vaccinated population. And that is why they want to distract you. And they say, oh, there is other viruses that are going to come and we are going to see other epidemics and other threats. And all this is distracting, right? But I'm still focused on studying the evolution of the very SARS-CoV-2, of course, now in a kind of different shape in a different form. And that is for me still worrisome, yes, to be very open, you know, it was declared as a health emergency of international concern, which was a complete nonsense, as we all know. But now, although the fact, and this is difficult for people to understand, I fully agree, with regard to COVID-19, it's more or less silent, right? Mortality, morbidity rates are very low. And so people

the virus were seeing, but we are seeing this incredible rise in all-cause mortality and not really knowing where that's happened. That is my point, and I'm glad that you put up the title of my new contribution, because what I recently found out is that a number of this side effect that we consider being direct side effects of the vaccine, or in fact side effects, if you like, of the immune escape. So in fact, the immune response being focused now thanks to or due to, I should say, the vaccine breakthrough infection, the immune response is now going to focus on other domains of the spike protein.

And some of these domains of the spike protein are more conserved. That's remember, you will remember that people who get vaccine breakthrough infections, you know, they were, so to say, doing fantastic because all of a sudden they got, well, you broadly neutralizing antibodies. They declined very rapidly. Same with the MRNA vaccines. They declined very rapidly. But why did they have broadly neutralizing antibodies?

Because they were directed against the more conserved domains of spike protein. But the more the domain is conserved and the lower the immunogenicity, you know, this goes together. Because if the domain is conserved, evolutionary speaking, it means it's very important. Yes. the virus doesn't want immune system to recognize that domain that much.

So what you have to bear in mind, the more it is conserved, so the less immunogenic, but also the more closely it often resembles components, peptides of our own cells. So now, immurefocusing starts refocusing to some extent the immune system to make it concentrate on domains of spike protein that have some self-resembrance, some resemblance with our self-components. You see what I'm saying? So now we start to induce immune responses that can recognize self-components in our cells.

One of the arguments I heard Paul Offutt talking about this, he's concerned that, for instance, you're creating antibodies for spike, but those antibodies, there's parts of the spite that look a lot like a heart cell, and therefore the antibody that's protection. or trying to fight Spike will go and attack. This is one of his theories.

These are theories that are out there that because it looks similar, our own immune system starts attacking cells in our own body. But even cancer cell, for example, you know, a cancer cell very often starts with a slight alteration, a slight change of self proteins on the surface of the cancer cells. At that very early stage, though, the proteins still very much resemble cell proteins. We call them altered self.

But those altered cell proteins are also going to be recognized by this new antibody, so to say. So they are going to sit on this cancer cell, and the cancer cell can no longer recognize by the immune effector cells that should recognize this cancer cell and destroy. But they see it is, oh, it's safe because that's self. Yeah. So I guess what I'm saying is that, you know, I now found out that, in fact, you know, I'm always after putting the pieces of the puzzle together. that in fact also this whole spectrum of side effects, where we talk about autoimmunity, when we talk about inflammatory reactions,

when we talk about cancers, for example, or also apparently linked to immune escape, to this immure refocusing, immuery focusing lead to immune escape, but also exposes new domains of spike protein that are responsible to some extent for the side effects. And that's also the real real effects. together with immune escape, we see even an evolution in the pathology of non-COVID-related diseases,

where it was very much inflammatory at the beginning. It's now more like autoimmune, more cancer, non-inflammatory to some extent. So for me, the secondary effect responsible to a large extent for the excess deaths is also a sign that the virus continues to evolve. and that the immune system gets further derailed, if you like. Right, because the immune system affects all of those things. It's affecting our cancer rates, all of these different things. So as you look at this, and, you know, your concern, though, I mean, it is causing, if you're saying it's a part of, we are seeing this rise in all these other issues.

We'll be talked to Dr. Peter McCullough, very focused on the problems we're seeing with myocarditis in the heart. This idea, though, you had said early on that you believe the bigger issue was not going to be the side effects of the vaccine, the bigger issue was going to be these mutations from the pressure of the vaccine in the middle of a pandemic. First of all, I want to say, you know, it's clear the vaccine doesn't work. I mean, now we all know people have got three or four shots and they're saying I still got COVID three or four times. It's hard to imagine why. And I don't think a lot of people, nobody's getting the boosters now. nobody really buys that it works. But I think the question is, is after they've gotten COVID,

why isn't COVID resetting the immune system, right? They get sick. They get symptomatic. They're like, oh, you know, I got pretty sick. What is it about the vaccine that, you know, had they not had it, they get sick and they're immune for a much longer, really strong immunity and they're able to protect themselves? Why are they getting it over and over again?

Well, you know, the key words to that. is the vaccine breakthrough infection. So you remember when Omicron came, all people, you know, even those who were against this mass vaccination, we're saying, you know, this is fantastic, we're out of this crisis, because Omicron is highly infectious, it's gonna boost even those who are vaccinated,

it's gonna spread very rapidly, we are gonna have a herd immunity, and it's not causing severe disease, so it's fine. And I must say very honestly, I also at the very beginning, believing in this, but not for a long time, maybe one week. Because seven days, Gert was cool. Yeah, well, 10 days maybe.

You're like, we're okay, I can go. No, no, no, no. But I'm saying, I mean, this is, it's sad to say, it's sad to say, but it's of course one of the most intriguing scientific challenges I've ever been tackling in my whole career. But of course, the outcome is sometimes very sobering. But what is happening is when the vaccine, when the virus breaks through that immunity,

that then of course the antibodies that do no longer neutralize, see that was the problem with Omicron, all of a sudden there was a big change in this receptor binding domain, and all of a sudden the vaccine-induced antibodies could no longer neutralize or barely neutralize. There was a strong diminished neutralizing capacity of the vaccinal antibodies.

So the virus breaks through that immunity, And so very, very fast, because what you have then, when people are interested, they can read this in my book, is that you start to synthesize, so to say, non-neutralizing antibodies. They're going to attach to the virus, and they are going to accelerate the virus, the entry of the virus in the cell and also the reproduction. So to your question, why is it that at that moment you don't stimulate the natural or the innate immunity? is because the viral reproduction goes so fast, normally innate immunity, for example, NK cells, is stimulated at a very early stage of viral infection, where some early proteins are presented at the membrane, at the surface of the infected cell. There the NK cell can start to be trained.

If it goes too fast, too fast, you can forget about this. Fanden Bosch never said that you destroy innate immunity, but you sideline it. It goes too fast. So then the virus breaks through, but still the antibodies can still bind to spike protein to this dominant domains, if you like. This can still bite, we can no longer neutralize the virus. That's what we just discussed. But by binding to these dominant domains, the way the word says itself, it's dominant, it doesn't give a chance to the other domains to be recognized by the immune system, this competition.

at the benefit of the dominant domains, but now they are hidden. So now subdominant domains that was on the graph that you just showed on the cartoon, and we call them very often recessive domains. These are domains that are normally never recognized by the immune system. They now get recognized, right?

And they induce, to some extent, antibodies that have much lower neutralizing capacity. We have seen this. People will say, wow, wow, we have broadly neutralizing antibodies. Yeah, one or two weeks or after, two months or after. It's a shorter and shorter period of times. It's diminished.

So the immunity was even further weakened, which further stimulated the immune escape. And in parallel, you got more and more antibodies synthesized against domains that could have some similarity with self-epidopes, for example. So this whole evolution, that's why I'm saying, that this was not a favorable sign. And to your question, why is it that these people who were vaccinated and got symptoms, that was a clear sign of a vaccine breakthrough infection. Okay? The key word is the immune refocusing. You know, they were forced, they're forced their immune system to concentrate on less immunogenic domains

that to some extent shared even similarity, homology with cell of epitopes. And some of these antibodies at the beginning were cross-neutralized. So they worked. But then of course, because these are becoming less and less. Yeah. So we were enhancing the immune escape. You were driving more and more sight effects and I think that to some extent before we come to what my fear is a variant that will be more virulent in some vaccines, namely those who were not trained before haven't gotten the vaccine. Okay, so they didn't get infected before the vaccine. They got the vaccine and now what's What's your fear?

We're coming into, you know, we're right here, we're probably a month or two from the beginning of cold flu season. That's when coronaviruses tend to kick in and all those things. What is your concern? So my concern is that the protection that the vaccine is, and of course I'm not talking about all the vaccine because I've even launched recently a video message where I was clearly saying people who got one shot, don't worry, you're not primed. So one shot.

If you only got one, you're probably- Exactly. Didn't do the damage. People who got clearly the infection before they got vaccinated, don't worry. I think they may, you know, to some extent their immunity may be compromised, but they are certainly having innate immunity that they can further develop and they got primed. So if you got infected first, then got one vaccine, you're probably okay. One vaccine never a problem.

One vaccine not a problem. One shot never a problem. Before or after infection, you don't get never a problem. When you get infected before you got vaccinated. not a problem either. But it becomes very tricky when you got vaccinated, especially with the MRNA vaccines

early on before you got infected. And that is primarily the case of all the vulnerable people. Those were vaccinated first. The elderly people with underlying diseases, people who were immune suppressed, et cetera. And so my fear is they are so far protected

by this non-neutralizing antibodies. I'm explaining this in my book. It's quite complex because they are on one hand side. I just explained. Here's the book, everybody, if you want to take a look at Inescapable Immune Escape Pandemic. I will say this right now. Because obviously our show deals with a lot of vaccinations.

You are not anti-vaccine, correct? I mean, that's, and you are, and I want to be also totally up front. Part of the work you're doing is you are working to make a vaccine that incites the innate immune system versus the sort of memory side, right? The question is, do we still call this a vaccine? Because, you know, I mean, we can have the discussion. We'll have that another time, but I just want to be in all this time. Yeah, exactly.

We meet in this space, but there are things that we would probably argue about. There is some common denominator that, you know, people become more aware that our first line of immune defense that we got, you know, from burst, that there is nothing wrong in strengthening this, right? Right. And that innate that first response. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that is the whole thing here, because that is still the only thing that protects us unvaccinated or those who got trained before vaccinated. Because now there is so many variants out there. And do people imagine? They're highly infectious. They're highly infectious. How do you think that we are still protected? It's because our first line of immune defense got exposed all the time and is now, do you people who are? Do you know people who are in good health and, you know, got not vaccinated who are still getting or getting the disease? I'm not that I can, I don't know what they're sick. Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying.

I'm just saying. So that is really what protects us and that is what missing in the vaccinese. I mean, they have now to completely rely. Their innate immune system that goes on attack first. Yeah. They're only relying on that sort of memory and it's dysfunctional because it's it's completely dysfunctional. And they have nothing else to rely on except, except these non-neutralizing antibodies. There is a mechanism that explains how they can still protect against severe disease.

But that protection is temporary. We know that these antibodies do not have memory. So when the production of those antibodies will come to an end, and I'm also explaining how this will happen, then I'm afraid these people will be without any their attention. adaptive immune responses they can forget about this. I thought already that's why my predictions remembered. I was saying one year ago, I'm afraid that this is going to happen before the end of the

years. So I missed my timeline by one year. This was because I was not aware of this immune refocusing. I was not aware that these non-neutralizing antibodies would protect against severe disease. So this was delaying the whole thing. But now when this is going to, when this is going to, when this is. antibodies are going to decline. I mean, these people can not rely on a native. Get another vaccine that that will ramp it up. But I mean, even comedians like Dana Carvey are like it just gets

shorter and shorter. Like it lasts for one hour. We can make the discussion very complicated. I don't want to do this. But I will tell you. No, no, no. Yeah. I will tell you one thing, which is very easy for people to understand. I, I'm saying that the biggest gap, the biggest gap in the understanding of the pandemic and the reason why our health authorities and even scientists do not understand what's going on, which is very, very scary, right, is the biggest gap is immunology. You know, they are all after, you know, molecular stamp collection of the mutants and detailing this in all kinds of, and then all they know is about neutralizing antibody. Have you ever heard them talking about immureate focusing, about, you know, what is the role of

the IG4 antibodies, nobody really understands this, high affinity antibodies, low affinity antibodies, non-neutralizing antibodies, etc. It's very, very complex, right? I'm diving into this because, you know, this was always also my job, but it's not understood. And that is the reason why right now people are just looking at what is happening. Oh, the mortality, morbidity rate is relatively low, all the measures have been relaxed. And yeah, we are seeing. low virus concentrations in wastewater, and they define this as endemicity, herd immunity. And then, like, for flu, you can, so to say, say, well, we can live with the virus because we can give a shot to the vulnerable.

When places where the immunity is waning, we can fill up this gap again and we can protect, yeah, this is provided you have herd immunity. You hear me saying that we don't have herd immunity. Because flu, nobody's ever taken this shot that month. There's always been a huge body of people that are catching flu, have natural immunity. You're saying we have hurt immunity, so all you have to do is handle this little group of people that may be having issues. In this case, you vaccinated so many people. Your concern was we will wipe out our ability to get to hurt immunity.

And that is proven to be true. I mean, on that level, you were right. I think the vaccine interfered. We were not able to clear this virus. It is still hanging around. It, you know, likely we'll come back around. Now, your concern then is that if you got two, three, four of these vaccines, especially if you didn't have a primary, like if you weren't primed by the virus itself,

that you could have real trouble when your antibodies start failing in a future variant coming in the winter. Because what people need to understand, and, you know, from the very beginning, I've always very clearly, you know, pronounced or against discrimination between vaccines and I don't vaccine. But there is one thing, and it's not a reason to discriminate, but there is one thing that we cannot ignore. That is that the immune status right now of an unvaccinated person is fundamentally different from the immune status of a vaccinated person. Right. Right. And so the, and if that

immune status of the vaccinated person concerns the majority of the population, which it does in highly vaccinated populations, not in Africa, right. Seventy-five, 70% of the vaccine in America. Come on, But the virus is going to adapt to that status, of course, because that is the majority. And so therefore, I continue saying it's not true to say, oh, there will be a variant that is highly, highly virulent. No, this variant will have the capacity to overcome the inhibitory capacity of the non-neutralizing antibodies to prevent severe disease in the vaccine. So it's not that it's like this super deadly, it's not going to be super deadly to the unvaccinated who have a perfectly working immune system. I recognize that, I'm fighting that. It's just going to be those whose bodies will not be able to mount the proper defense. And there's going to take a virus that isn't

necessarily, it's going to be deadly for them. Exactly. And that is why I thought it was so important to clarify which people, in my humble opinion or at risk, it's for God's sake, not all the vaccine is. And it is, thanks God, especially not our. younger people who got vaccinated later on in the process. Odds are they were infected first. And who were already, for most of them, exposed to natural infection. So I think that is very, very important. And that is not to scare people, but I'm saying the immunology is not understood.

And certainly our held officials, they have no clue, they don't know where this is going. I think for the moment they're just trying to keep their pants dry, right, because they are fearful what is that. Sort of like what we're seeing in Maui right now. Then they are going to say, oh, wow, other pandemics will come. And when this would possibly happen, what I say, they will say, see, we told that other pandemics, because in the meantime, the Omicron, the Arcturus and all these new species are very, very different from the original Omicron.

There's many people who say, come on, we can no longer, we cannot no longer call this Omicron descendants or Omicron deride variants. We need to label them with new. zero types really right they're very very very different but so yeah and your solution you've been saying that you think that people that have gotten these multiple vaccinations you have a solution and that's antivirals very quickly explain how someone would use antivirals in this situation yeah well my fear is and I'm very serious about this is what we may be facing is because we you know

the indirect effect of the vaccine may be that in a vaccinee, we take away all the immune defenses. As you were pointing out, the adaptive immunity, does it work anymore? You know, these non-utilizing antibodies are part of the adaptive immunity, but they have no memory. They are very, very short-lived. So, and the innate immunity is not developed. If we take away all this, I mean, people have to realize that the virus simply blows through the whole system. This is a cytolytic virus, it can destroy cells, and this could lead to really enhancement of severe disease, enhance severe disease. So in that scenario, I'm recommending people who fall in the category that is at risk,

according to the criteria that we just discussed, to take the antivirals in advance, in a prophylactic way. Because I think that when we start treating them by the time, as we did in the past, successfully, Peter McCullough, many others, if we start treating them at the moment where the symptoms become obvious that we will come too late. People are always thinking what is the difference between infectious and virulent? It's very easy. If you have an infectious virus that infect cells and that can destroy the cell that is

cytolytic and you have no immunity there, automatically it's highly virulent. You see what I'm saying? So the level of virulence is to a large extent determined by the defense. Of course. Here people are all the time talking about the virus as if the virus were in charge and the strategy of the virus, etc. I'm saying, does the virus have brains? Because, you know, and the immune system is completely neglected.

We see this evolutionary changes of the virus, but in parallel also the immune system is evolving, trying to adapt these dynamics are not understood at all. You know, in the stories we just showed before we came out here, rises in shingles, in herpes, or leprosy, these tell us that our bodies are losing. Immune suppression. Immune suppression. Immune suppression is not fighting off things he used to fight very easily. You can't do it anymore.

I was glad to hear that you take this seriously. I take this seriously. Even the monkey pox and these things, I take this seriously because this is the result to some extent of immune suppression and also to some extent, you know, or the vaccine is being able to transmit this asymptomatically. It's complex, but their immune defense against COVID, to some extent, can overlap with immune defense against other diseases. Because, for example, monkeypox is normally symptomatic.

If things are symptomatic, you can very easily stop the spread. You simply go in the other room, hang out over there for a little while. Now, if you make this asymptomatic, now you have another situation. Oh, and you think that's the side effect of this massive vaccine, we're turning these things. ACE and domestic, they're spreading without being. Del, if you get the immunology, you will at the end of the day find out that all these things are related.

It's not like a coincidence. It's not like these health authorities wanting to make us crazy. There is some reality in this, but, you know, we ought to put the pieces of the puzzle together because this is a complex phenomenon. We are playing with thousands of years of evolution that we are missing it. All right. Hold that thought. Let's get another voice into this perspective.

of the things, you know, we're talking about predictions that the high wire made. We're very lucky today that a couple of these predictions are going to come in to people that were making these conversations. One of them was the risk in myocarditis and heart attacks and blood clots. We had made a video over the last couple of years. We kept showing you the athletes that were passing out and dying, having heart attacks on the field. I'll tell you, we've just remade this video. What you're about to watch is only news reports that happened in the last 18 months.

Eight months, I mean, eight months, being corrected, the last eight months, 2023 alone, this is what's been happening in our news. He was playing a pickup soccer game when he collapsed and went into cardiac arrest. He died at the hospital. The Northwestern High School basketball player who collapsed during a game last week has passed away. That high school varsity football player on Long Island who collapsed on the field. The family says he is going to be taken off of life support and his organs will be donated. A 17-year-old cross-country athlete at Geyer High School.

He walked into this bathroom after a workout with his teammates and never walked back out. His coach found him. They don't know how long he was down, but seconds matter during a cardiac event. CPR was performed, but it was too late. Elijah Jordan Brown Garcia was involved in light football drills last Friday here in the field at Westside Park. He collapsed right near his younger brother. We're still waiting for a report from the medical examiner. to find out how this 12-year-old died.

Leo Delgado had collapsed on the court during a basketball tournament at mass premier courts in Foxborough. The behavioral 17-year-old had had a seizure, and then his heart stopped. 15-year-old Canaan Dickman collapsed on the high school track during soccer practice. Haynan survived cardiac arrest,

but his heart needs to rest. He's wearing a life fest. It's attached to him at all times. It alerts him of any issues, shocks him if necessary and sends out calls for help. Mother of a player on the team performed life-saving CPR until the ambulance got there. But in the ambulance, Piper lost her pulse again.

19-year-old Liam Mildenstein. He collapsed backward and died about an hour later. Hello, I wanted to provide an update on my son's condition. He is still on life support. He is very likely to need a heart transplant. The official diagnosis is myocarditis. Collapsing during afternoon practice, Ebony had suffered the dreaded Widowmaker heart attack,

and less than two weeks later, she underwent a heart transplant. The teen was playing basketball when he went into cardiac arrest. Basketball player collapses. Student athlete collapsed. Collapsed. Collapsed. Bronny James suffered cardiac arrest while at a practice. Oscar Cabrera died this week after an apparent.

heart attack, Cabreras believed has suffered from myocarditis. Social media posts surfaced in which Cabrera suggested he developed the rare heart disease after he received two doses of a COVID vaccine. Ash was very healthy up until two and a half weeks ago and he's been vaccinated. I was wondering like why he why he was so healthy. And then and and when I left him in the hospital he was fine and then and then a couple days later he's on life support and on ventilation and you know his his heart's damage he was live on air when Shaka Hislop suffered a medical emergency alice carlson suddenly collapses during the live

7 a.m. broadcast now nairman i'm looking at after the day families are pushing feds to pushing the feds to sorry nairman i'm I'm not feeling very well right now and I'm about just... Okay, we'll come back to me right now and we'll make sure that, Jessica, you are doing okay. Good bipartisan cooperation and a string of... Jamie Fox, now reportedly recovering out of physical rehabilitation center. Specializes in treating patients with stroke and brain injuries. And every once in a while, I just burst into tears is because I went to hell and back.

Tomorrow morning, Eon Sanders is set to have emergency surgery to fix blood clots in his legs. Cory Kelly recovering this morning after collapsing in public, reportedly now being treated for blood clots. They know, you know, why he went into cardiac arrest, doctors? Just yet? No, they don't. He doesn't have any health issues or heart issues in the past. At just 18, Lexi went into sudden cardiac arrest. Her doctor still doesn't know why.

Liam had no known health issues. Didn't really have much symptoms, never really thought anything was wrong. We didn't have any underlining health issues, anything. Ebene's had a heart attack and a heart transplant. She's a kid who's never been sick a day in her life. I opened the paper and I saw this girl had died unexpectedly. A 33-year-old actor, model artist, and she woke up and died. And they're not sure why.

Teenage hockey player. who died on the ice. Collapsed and died. Died. Died. Died. Died. Died. Died. Who knows. Young people are dying these days. Eight months, folks. I'll make the same caveat because by tomorrow morning, New York Times, Washington Post, someone's going to write that the high wire just pout out of video claiming that all these people were having these issues because of vaccination.

So let me be perfectly clear. We did not, you know, reach out to all the individuals involved in that montau. and find out if they had the vaccine. I suppose some of them maybe didn't. And that is not the question I'm asking here. I'm not trying to prove to you. Vaccines are doing this. What I'm asking once again is, do you ever remember a news cycle a year

where this many children were having heart attacks, blood clots, widow makers in teenagers? That's all I'm going to say. Something seems drastically off. are, you know, all-cause mortality rates in specifically younger people, 18 to about 54 are off the charts and everyone wants to act like nothing is going on. Or as they promised us, the new normal seems to be upon us. To get to the bottom of this is the most published heart doctor in the world.

A man has put his butt on the line throughout all of this to try and bring truth to insanity. It's my honor and pleasure to be joined once again by Dr. Peter McCullough. Thank you. To begin with, we've covered this topic. You've been writing some brilliant, doing some brilliant studies recently. I feel like over the last few weeks that I'm seeing a wave of these stories. Now, maybe it's just because I've been distracted by other things. I don't know.

But it felt like we'd sort of seen the myocarditis. We'd seen the heart attack stories. We saw the NFL player fall, and then it kind of quieted down. And I thought, I guess, we're through it. Hopefully the bodies have recovered. We wondered, you know, we've talked about myocarditis that something stays with you. Once you've injured your heart, it doesn't get fixed. Is there an uptick in these events going on now, or is it just my lack of sort of perspective on it?

There certainly is great awareness, great concern. The entire country, the entire world is on edge. honestly watching this. October 22nd, 2020, the FDA in its Verbeck meeting said myocarditis could be a result of the vaccines. That's in October of 2020. June of 2021, U.S. FDA says

the vaccines cause myocarditis or heart inflammation. I can tell you, before COVID, that if a patient had myocarditis, and we saw rare cases due to parvovirus, Coxacivirus, giant cell, which is idiopathic, we could not let them exercise because exercise, the surge of adrenaline could trigger a cardiac arrest. The surge of adrenaline that occurs between 3 a.m. and 6 a.m. could cause a cardiac arrest during sleep. But for sure, athletes could not exercise with myocarditis. Fast forward, what have we learned? There are now

800 peer-reviewed papers on COVID-vaccine-induced myocarditis. There is a massive literature. Two prospective cohort studies, one by Mansugian, the other one by Buren and Mueller, show the rate of heart damage when assessed before and after taking a shot, second and third shots respectively in those studies, 2.5%. 2.5% in a large population, two-thirds of the world, is a big number of people now. Now, when the heart damage occurs, there is a variation in conduction, electrical conduction through a zone. And normally the body relies on perfect depolarization and repolarization. The heart tissue is pristine.

In fact, we do everything we can to avoid even the smallest heart attack because a heart attack could cause a small scar. Well, when a small scar occurs, which could be occurring in 2.3% of people who take these shots. Now they're set up for the stochastic event of a slow depolarization through the zone of scar or damage and then have it circle back up and that's called reentry. And reentry ventricular tachycardia is a very fast heart rhythm. It lasts typically 15, 30 seconds, a minute or so. You can see the different montages. You can see people starting to go, that's VT. And then finally when it degenerates the ventricular fibrillation, they go down like a rock. And that is the pathogenesis of what we're seeing.

It's COVID-19 vaccine-induced cardiac arrest, recent paper on the preprint service system. Nick Holscher from University of Michigan, first author, I'm senior author. We have now proof positive in autopsies in cases like this, 100% of the time, it is fatal vaccine-induced mitochonditis. I'm going to get to you gear. We're going to bring in the conversation first. But so you're looking at this. There's a lot of studies now. Like you said, we're starting to see autopsies, which we couldn't find in the middle of COVID, which was crazy.

Why aren't we doing autops to figure out what's going on here? As you said, some very alarming details. We're also seeing this starting to admit that these scars are lingering, and that the problems are lingering over time in many ways. Even, and I think something one of the studies in the articles you put out is this recurrence of sort of myocarditis, like a reswelling of the heart? Is that happening in some of these kids? Well, here's the concern is the vaccines don't work. So they get COVID anyway. And sometimes just the inflammation of COVID re-ignites some of the pathogenic processes, potentially myocrotitis, but for sure, blood clots. Now, I have seen that in my practice over and over again.

Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, vaccine. COVID, blood clots. Case in point, Weatherman, L. Roker. That's exactly what his scenario was. with Kirk Herb Street, ESPN announcer. That was his scenario. Mixedures of vaccine, vaccine, vaccine, COVID, more vaccines, Bruce Ariens, former coach of the Bucks, hospitalized with mya cardias. So we can actually pick public figures. The great concern, though, is, I think the case to watch is the case of Oscar Cabrero Adomas. Now, Adomis is European player from Dominican Republic, he has a cardiac arrest in 2021. He goes down.

Now, of these athlete cardiac arrests, roughly two-thirds are fatal. They're not resuscitable. A third are resuscitated. He's in the third. He gets resuscitated in 2021. He comes out on social media and he says, I have vaccine-induced myocarditis. That's what caused me.

So he's honest. He comes out and makes the call. So he's taken out of sports appropriately. Presumably he's appropriately treated. And he's down to this decision of does he get an implantable defibrillator or does he not? And I can tell you, the convention has been get a defibrillator. If there's been a cardiac arrest, there is a bona fide repeat risk than this can happen.

So most people in the United States who have had cardiac arrests of different types almost always have a defibrillator. So Adamas does not take a defibrillator, but he's ostensibly recovered. I assume all his measures look good, feeling good. So he's on a treadmill test. There he is. That's a medical treadmill test in a health center. And so he's got the leads on.

This isn't going to Lifetime Fitness. He's in the health center. And he dies on this treadmill test. He dies. Now, I'm a cardiologist. I have supervised treadmill test for decades. I've never had a patient die on a treadmill. Now, I've had cardiac aroused, but we have defibrillation,

we have, you know, IV access, things we can do. I am extremely concerned that this now is a documented case of a cardiac arrest two years plus after taking the vaccines. And so the risk is carried forward. So what you're observing is, yeah, you're right, COVID is down. We're not hearing so much about acute mycarditis, but now we're hearing about this tale of cardiac arrests. And two important studies, one by Barmata from Yale, the other one by you and colleagues. from Hong Kong showing the MRIs are not clearing up. Now normally if there's a little inflammation, a small patch, you keep doing serial MIs.

The car heart would return to normal. The hope would be that young kids would return to normal. The Yale paper said at nine months, 80% of the MRIs are still abnormal. The Hong Kong paper says now at a year, 58% are still abnormal. And the Hong Kong paper is concerning because they had a large segment that said, you know what, the kids had no symptoms. They had been caught in the study for other reasons. So what I'm telling you is not all the kids can feel it.

There is a population of people at risk. And the biggest issue I'm facing my practice, I'm having young people walk in, look me in the eye and they say, Dr. McCullough, am I going to have a cardiac arrest? Wow. All right, Gere, let's get into this. And now the two of you really haven't had a lot of time to spend with each other. So I think you just met today for the first time in person, right? aware. I'm going to let you ask a question because I mean you know you've watched

Dr. Peter McCullough has been really on this career shifted had to make changes under attack for all those things. When we started as you said you said I don't think the side effects are going to be as big a problem as sort of the immune escape but this is clearly a really defined side effect what are your thoughts on that if you were to ask Peter a question what would it be? Yeah, well, first of all, thank you so much for bringing us together. It's really a pleasure. I have a huge respect for Peter here. It's one of the very few highly respected people who spoke out very early on,

and he knows all the data. It's so feel really honored. Yeah, well, I would like to ask Peter, why is it, according to your experience, that we are primarily, not exclusively, of course, but primarily seeing all these problems in the heart. Of course, we are also seeing a number of problems with other organs, you know, the number, for example, of diabetes cases, of course not due to the vaccine, so to say, but have gone up.

We see people struggling with other organs, et cetera. Why is it so pronounced in the myocarditis? I mean, why is primarily the heart so strongly? effect that is it because of the blood circulation that is so or? Well many organs can tolerate some inflammation and it's relatively silent the liver the spleen now the brain can't tolerate much because it evoked symptoms and neither can the heart so you know there's an array we talked about cardiac arrest ventricular tachycardia ventricular fibrillation there's also atrial fibrillation

the most common heart rhythm has been linked to this clearly a progression of atheroscotic cardiovascular disease plaque rupture myocardial infarction, that's been linked to the vaccines and inflammation, as well as vascular disasters like aortic dissection. So this is all in the peer-viewed literature. But the heart uniquely receives his blood flow primarily in diastole, so the resting phase, so it's not systolicly punching through. And not only that, but myocardial blood flow is dynamic. So at rest, our myocardial blood flow is, you know, at a baseline. exercise, you know, we can have a two, three, four-fold increased risk of myocardial blood flow.

Paper by Castriuda and colleagues has demonstrated circulation of the messenger RNA for at least a month after one of these shots. What do the athletes do? They take a shot and they go exercise, they're working out. So constantly think about juicing myocardial blood flow, more deposition of vaccine material into the heart. It's taken up. Paper by Ovolio and colleagues showed the periore The support cells in the heart, the ones take it up more avidly than others. They translate the messenger RNA, largely what we're talking about. The spike protein is expressed on the cell surface of these periscites. They're in close proximity to the capillaries.

The body's immune system reacts to it, Dr. Bandabash can tell us that, you know, for the first time, instead of something that's part of the major histocompatibility complex on the surface of the cell, now we're expressing the Wuhan spike protein. that the human body is going to say, wait a minute, what is this? And so there's going to be an attack. A paper by Beaumire and colleagues took biopsies of young men who were in the hospital, suffering with vaccine maccarditis, and there were clearly zones of inflammation, and the spike protein was right there.

Schwab showed the fatal cases, it's right there. So one of the arguments would be that, you know, the only thing that's happening, the heart as Offutt, Paul Offutt has said, which is sort of what we've talked about, it's seeing the heart, it's seeing the spike protein, is creating antibodies, and there's antibodies that the heart has cell cells that look like the spike, and therefore the antibodies are attacking the heart. But you're saying, no, it's just the spike protein being expressed by cells in the heart that are coming under attack by the immune system.

There's also a wrinkle in a paper from Massachusetts General Hospital. This is very important, where kids were in the hospital, myocarditis, and they measured both spike protein in the blood and neutralized in antibodies. and the kids with myocarditis had circulating spike protein, but the antibodies were not neutralizing the spike. The kids without myocarditis had spike, but the antibodies were correctly neutralizing it. So there may be what you're talking about,

the immune system now is missing the target, and some kids now are getting a prolonged exposure to the spike protein, more loading in the heart. Yeah. When you look at what, what geared has been up to the switch it over the other side i mean you've been really on despite proteins the problem this vaccine uh affecting organs especially the heart this idea of pressuring variants now you've you know you were you wrote more about the covid virus i think you're more

published at the point that you got into this whole heart issue than anybody else just talking about the the virus itself when it was first came out um this idea of pressuring the virus, you know, with a leaky vaccine that was incapable of neutralizing or sterilizing this, do you feel like that ramped up the amount of mutations that we're seeing, just to begin with, like, when you look at the theory that Geert brought forward, do you, we certainly saw a lot of variants. Do you feel like the vaccine was playing a role in that? Well, you know, I'm not expert or qualified to say like Dr. Vanda Bosch, but I would say that it's been my observation that I think the vaccines have clearly prolonged.

longed this duration that we've seen. And when Dr. Vanderbosch was really getting into it with you on the immunology, so I hope the audience really loved it. I know the producers were... Well, are we all going to be tested when this is all over. Yeah, I tell you, the science was deep. You were really taking them downtown on that. But let me say that I was wondering,

if we were to actually do the same surveillance for paramexoviruses and other human coronaviruses, what would we find? at this stage? Are we in a sense kind of over studying this or not? Let me just say this much. It's still around. I'm following the data. Right now, the EG5, the most recent one. You know, that's about 17 percent. The XBB 1.5, that's the one the new vaccines are for. That's 8% and fading fast. But as we sit here today, August 5th, 2023, on the CDC now-Caccount, system, we have the most diversity that we've had in a long time. Now, maybe we're now, we're going to see this EG5, you know, follow this pattern and become hyperdominate.

What I am seeing clinically is, yes, people are getting second and third infections. Vaccinated, not vaccinated is characteristically mild. The vibracidal nasal washes and sprays working great. Over the counterpropos. Say that again. So using what is the treatment? We're using a dilute, paladone, iodine, xylotol based products, colloidal silver. They all work. So, so spraying and nasal. nasal sprays and gargles, very effective. Now, what I am noticing clinically is that even though someone who get through a mild infection,

the cardiovascular and the thrombotic complications are still there, meaning people get a late-stage oma-crown infection. They've had it before, and all of a sudden, blood clot in the arm. No vaccine. So even on-vaccine people, you're seeing that. Oh, for sure. So I'm seeing these late complications. People getting a relatively mild syndrome, but then long COVID.

So now they feel sick. We do blood tests. We see lots of abnormalities. We see signs of autoimmunity, the ANA blood test turning positive, for example. So my practice now is very busy fielding these cardiovascular thrombotic, neurologic, immunologic complications of this prolonged pandemic, I think prolonged because of the vaccine. So that's form-frewst evidence that people are getting recurrently sick. Maybe the respiratory component in the nasal mucosa were able to fight this off,

but those who do have some invasive diseases, there's consequences. So this diversity question is the most diverse, as he's saying, that we've seen of, like, we don't have one that's really skyrocketing and owning the space, right? 12%, 8%, you know, sort of in there a bunch of different. What's your explanation for this? Is it just that they're jockeying into position for the, So the next race to the top?

So you mean with regard to the variance? Yeah. Well, you know, initially we had all the focus was on the receptor binding domain, right? And there was huge variability. So what we have seen since the breakthrough infections with Omicron, so I talked about the immune refocusing, was that in fact the focus was now much more on more conserved domains, right, of the spike protein. That is also why we got broadly, initially, broadly cross-neutralizing antibodies, etc. So that means that when a variant, regardless of the antigenic constellation, picked up

this particular mutation in a conserved domain that it would go, it would fly. So that's why we were talking about co-circulation of more infectious variants all of a sudden. the diversity because there was only like one criterion was to pick up this mutation in the conserved domain regardless because that that is where the immune pressure was regardless of the the rest of the other domain for people can you help jump in here Peter through through evolutionary principles there are parts of various proteins that are conserved they're felt to be essential for function they're essentially the building blocks They conserve, meaning they stay put.

They don't leave. They stay. And as Dr. Vandabash says, you know, viruses that need these, right? So let's say SARS-CoV-2 has roughly 30 proteins. Well, some need to be conserved. They need it. It obviously needs to be able to mutate some regions so we can continue to infect. Right.

So there's actually a lot of evolutionary pressures have the virus. It's not like the virus has a mind, but it looks creative. Remember, each person doesn't have a single strain. So each person has many, many, many different strains, and then one actually learns to thrive and become dominant. With Omicron, it was kind of interesting because it closed the immunologic door on Delta. So people who... Now, I have a controversial question for you.

I have to ask you because I put it on my sub-day. There are now two reports, one recently from Japan, studying a mutational analysis of Omicron, they've concluded it's too unnatural. And the hypothesis is it could have been manipulated in a lab somewhere along the lines of what the Pfizer executive said about directed evolutionary research that he said, Tristan Jordan Walker said that, you know, he was in a meeting and they said, boy, if we could actually create our own mutations and then do a release, we could chase it with vaccines. The theory being that to save the world, this thing was taking off, let's send in a highly infectious virus that is safer for you that can out-compete, protect you from Delta.

Well, he didn't say safer. He just said making more vaccines. I think Omicron, but these two reports, I think, are a bit worried. And I do remember just to add to that, they said that you're watching this lineage and they're all growing, but Omicron seemed to skip, right? It seemed to skip from where we were and was so different. There wasn't like a neighbor next door that it was like the others, it was very different. What are your thoughts on that? Well, first of all, my fear is that we are going to see the same huge leap now with regard to virulence. That was with regard to infectivity, right? But you have to imagine, you increase the pressure, right? We have seen alpha, beta, gamma, delta, common denominator,

they were always more infectious than the previous one. We agree. Yeah. So we increase this pressure, right? Somewhere, something need to happen or you kill the virus. The antibodies are going to matured. So that is what happened with O'Mecon. There was a dramatic change. The virus broke through the immune response and there you had the immune refocusing. So you started like a new type of immunity, right? Which was now no longer focused on the receptor binding domain, but on this more conserved. But you believe that could be explained by nature to just have something so totally different than all the others. This is the point, Elle.

I mean, if you just study the mutations, you are one of these mutations spotters. None of this makes sense if you miss the immunology, right? And that is the element that is missing. If you don't study the immunology at the population level, because, you know, it's not about you and me are being infected and what we do with the virus. The pressure for the virus comes from its environment, right? So if this environment is like hostile all over, 70, 80% of the population vaccinated. So that means I'm vaccinated, I transmit it to you the same environment. Yeah. It's trying to figure out.

Well, the one that got selected in my body will thrive also in yours. And so this has become dominant. So if you start. You know, Andy, let me just for people that are maybe, Andy really explained this to me very well. Andy Wakefield, who's very controversial for a lot of people, but he said to me the six-foot distance. Let's just imagine this, that there is, you know, there's a COVID virus. There is one that can't travel six feet. It's not going to, it just can't move six feet. Just using it as an example. So the only ones they're going to survive are the ones that just by nature of how they're created

managed to travel six feet. That's going to be the new variant because it's able to overcome that distance. It would not that that specifically happened. But when you put a pressure on it, it's the one that can overcome that pressure. We're all standing six feet away. Now we're only going to see variants that are able to travel six feet. That's natural selection. It's natural selection. So that's not thinking its way through.

It's just the ones that have the capability, whether they fly later or whatever it is, travel that distance, and that becomes the... And if you know that this election comes from the immune pressure, then you can never, ever predict what's going to happen if you don't understand that immune pressure. if you don't analyze it. Yeah. And that is what's happened. So with Omicron, the neutralizing end, the neutralizing capacity was down, and that's where

the analysis stopped. I mean, have you ever asked somebody, we all know acute self-limiting infections, you know, corona, influenza, rotavirus, parvovirus, entrovirus, are all acute self-limiting infections. We all know if you have neutralizing antibodies, certainly if those are in place, before you get exposed, you can perfectly neutralize the virus, no problem, right? Here, we can no longer induce neutralizing antibodies. The antibodies that got induced by the vaccine or have lost a neutralizing capacity. Nevertheless, people are still protected.

And not only against severe disease, nowadays, I mean, friends of my son, who is not vaccinated, et cetera, they got all vaccinated, they're all doing fine. They're not even having, you know, mild, mild symptoms. So how do you explain? this, right? I mean, I don't want to go into this. I'm just saying the immunology, again, is not understood. If you don't understand the immunology, certainly not at a population level, you don't have any clue about the kind of immune pressure that the virus is now experiencing. So you can wonder all the time, like with it, with Omicron, my goodness, where does this come from?

All of a sudden, you know, 30 mutations within the receptor. You just weren't looking in the right place. You weren't. That's the thing. But it's complicated. We could go on for days. Let me ask. I have two, I think, of the smartest guys in the world, especially in medicine, very different in spaces. Let me ask the hard question. Or at least I think it's sort of hard for people.

And the one I think everyone wants to know. What are the odds between the two of you that this thing comes from a lab? You are talking about blood clots and even people that didn't get vaccinated, you know, that this thing has an ability to do things that we've never seen in a coronavirus, at least not at this level. There's people will say you can't call it a bio weapon, but is there a chance that there was a bio weapon being made or maybe it was just being designed so we could make a vaccine for it and somebody carries it out of the lab accidentally or on purpose?

Where are you at? Let me start with you, Geert. What are the odds for you that this original pandemic starts coming out of a laboratory now? Where are you at on that question? I don't know. And for me, this, even if it came, well, let's say it's very clear that it could come out of the lab. But I don't think, I don't believe in manipulation, but I believe in, yeah, we know if you

want, if you isolate the coronavirus from an animal and that's also what we did in the past, right, in the early days when I was working in the virology lab, if you want to have a kind of idea, What is the threat for another species? Could be also for another animal. You start to put that virus on a cell culture, you know, that comes from that different animal species. Could be a dog, could be human cells, et cetera. And you do passages all over. So you've done this?

Oh, yeah, of course, of course. Have you done what we hear is gain of function? Would you say that the work you've done to be described as that? If you like, this is gain of function in the sense that I was working, for example, with pheline coronavirus. And you wanted, you know, to put this, for example, you wanted to see to what extent is this, could this be infectious for dog? Then you start out with dog cells, right? And you culture the virus and then, you know, you pass the supernatant. If there is one or the other mutant that happened to be able, you know, to replicate on the dog cells, it's in very, very low concentration, of course.

But if you pass it on the same, you go in an isolate, you're going to enrich it. You're going to enrich it. If you like, this is gain of function. Yes. But I'm saying, you know, there is so much focus on what happened at the beginning, whereas nobody seems to realize that the huge gain of function experiment that we are doing in the population on the very human species is the mass vaccination. The gain of function, you see, we have seen this, how the virus changed all.

the time. So basically, like you said taking this so close, we're doing this human to human to human under the pressure of vaccines and saying, what is this thing going to do? This is a large-scale mass experiment, gain of function at the largest scale. The virus changes in behavior all the time. You don't have a billion petri dishes, but we have a billion people we are hopping one to the next. A real experiment, right? And this is, this is, this is thousand times more relevant and people are looking at it because, you know, of course be interested to see... Forget where it came from, where's it going?

Yeah, yeah, and who has manipulated the virus and who is responsible, et cetera. For me, this is more political. The real biological issue is the mass vaccination experiment that has completely changed the behavior of the virus. Why do you think that WHO, CDC, have been changing the definitions all the time? Because the behavior of the virus has been changing, right? Look, we started out from a virus that had moderate infection. infectious in it to viruses that are now highly infectious.

That is a kind of change of function, right? More and more infectious when you now becomes more virulent. And that is at large scale, right, on the very human species. Can you imagine? So that is why where I get really extremely concerned. That I think really helped me understand that more like when you think of the past of the petri dishes. Of course, it's a passage.

Just to answer the question, what do you think about the lab origin now when you look at it? I think what we just heard in a sense is a bomb-shed. show because there's been so much focus on the furin clea's joint, the relatively small and number but major engineering of the spike protein in the Wuhan Institute of Arrology, the blueprint published by Ralph Barak at UNC Chapel Hill in 2015, so it's all in the open where they declare they've created the chimeric virus. It can invade human respiratory epithelial cells and then it kind of stops there. Now you mentioned, you know, it could this be a biological

Well, Peter Hotez's grants, Dr. Hotez in Houston, his grants in 2016 say he's working on a vaccine for biodefense purposes against SARS, essentially primordial SARS-CoV-2. But the real virology experiments, the consequences that we're seeing now in nature with recurrent infections, and the unique pathogenicity of this virus, you know, cardiac, neurologic, blood clots, and immunologic. It's changed the face of medicine. I think a lot of it has to do with how the virus has changed over time. Remember, people have taken these shots. You know, a large number of people took shots in the United States in 2021. Most of it stopped in 2021. The vast majority. The CDC says, I think we've never gotten past, I think, 16% of people

taking boosters. So it's not a large number of people who are progressively vaccinated. It's that initial set of vaccines and then the recurrent infections. When and let's just wrap it up here, you know, both of you come, you know, from very high levels of science. I had, you know, Neil deGrasse Tyson on the show and he's arguing, you know, consensus is why, you know, we all just have to do what we're told, we got to trust the science. And I said, I think the scientific method is dead here. I think it's dying.

Science is dying. The people. idea of consensus, right? And this was what really bothers me about this. I say, where was your consensus? Gert van der Bosch wasn't allowed in the room to talk about this vaccine or talk about the approach, masking, lockdowns. Dr. Peter McCullough wasn't allowed in the room.

Dr. Robert Malone, so many of these you guys that come from different areas of specialty were yelling at one in the room. Did we even have consensus? I mean, if consensus matters, this wasn't consensus. This was authoritarian control of a scientific theory and a product that didn't allow anyone else to the table that challenged it. And where are we at? I mean, what do we do in a society now where the most powerful regulatory agencies that are in a government being funded by the pharmaceutical industry and governments around the world were able to do whatever they want, make us take a product that clearly wasn't safe, but had all these issues. What is the state of the world we're in right now, in your mind, especially science?

You just showed a great example, first part of this show. A disaster in Maui. A brand new disaster. So right then and there, you ask the question, where's the consensus from the government response units? Anytime something's brand new, there cannot be a consensus. It's impossible. It's brand new. We've never faced it before.

This idea of jumping to a consensus and then, worse yet, saying the consensus represents the truth. Anything other than the consensus is misinformation, which is what happened rapidly, was the worst thing that could have happened to the scientific method. I think we should have had roundtable after roundtable, open forum after open forum. Our government agency has had plenty of time and money to do this. We could have done it over and over again. In cardiology, we have what's called Bethesda meetings. Bethesda meeting, Bethesda Maryland. It is academia, the practicing community, the NIH, CDC, FDA, we all get together. There's an agenda.

We present our ideas. That should have happened over and over again until we could actually get down to what I described in the floor of the U.S. Senate, the four pillars of pandemic response. We needed to reduce the spread of the virus, early treatment, late treatment, and vaccines. But we never had that discussion. You were you reaching out pleading through your LinkedIn page, which is how we found you. please WHO hear my call of distress and yet not invited to the table. There's, it seems to me it was so, it's so illogical, right?

I think those of us that are waking up to what happened here, you have children having heart attacks, they're still pushing this vaccine. The fact that today we just had universities kicking students out for a product that clearly doesn't work, doesn't stop transmission. And is, in your mind, making them more vulnerable to future problems and issues, where is the state of science now? Are we in a desperate time? Well, I don't think so, but I think it also has to do very much with our educational system. We have evolved to a society where, you know, people are silo-thinking, right?

They are so specialized in their field. Look, Peter is a cardiologist, but he can draw from several different fields. He can draw from infectious diseases, epidemiology, et cetera, et cetera. That has become really an exception. Really? Me as well, I'm not a professor at the university. I'm not, you know, I was pretty much, you know, when I found something like an industry, I always revealed the truth.

People didn't like this. They didn't want to fire me. It was probably too good, but they put me in another department, right? So all this was, in fact, from my career, a disadvantage. But in situations like this where you're dealing with something that is multidisciplinary, that is complex, where you need to be able to draw from infectious diseases, immunology, vaccinology, virology. I all of a sudden find myself in a situation where I feel pretty comfortable.

None of these guys, even this, you know, professors, virology, you name it, they don't understand the immunology, they don't understand the vaccinology, etc. So we need to evolve towards an educational system. Now I'm going to use the big word where we have a holistic approach, where we learn also our younger people to solve problems, not only write publications, but to solve problems, because this is the only way to give back to society with regard to taxpayers, money, et cetera.

So there is not that, and of course, organizations like the World Health Organization, that have a lot of power, a lot of authority. I mean, I work with these organizations. It's very, very clear. You're not very often hear me saying this because I don't touch on the politics. But they are completely incompetent. They're completely incompetent.

This is for a fact. And usually, of course, they decide things that don't matter too much. For Ebola, for example, it was very catastrophic. I've seen this. It was, you know, people were killed a vaccine program that they were chaperoning, that they were doing the clinical studies,

but of course it was at small scale. Here it is at large scale, and then you see all of a sudden that in the field that you're considered being experts in epidemiology, global health, et cetera, they completely miss it, and they don't understand.

So it is, we need to get away from this. We need a fundamental change. I don't know how it's going to happen, but for example, organizations like WHO, I'm always saying, if we have really one health emergency of international concern

is to dismantle this organization, for example. They open to door to industry. They're the problem. They're the problem. They open to the industry. If you do that, Del, you know what you're going to get. It's about the shareholders.

It's not about your health, right? You know this, but who opened the door? They did because they are profoundly incompetent, bureaucratic, you know, just focusing on their own agenda, you know, on their own meetings and not understanding the foundation. of what is really happening.

So yeah, my answer is I still believe in the science. But the science, there is also also... I believe in science, but the science has to happen. It has to go through the process we know. In this case, the science requires a multidisciplinary approach. I think Peter would agree on this. And we are not doing this. We are not teaching these.

There's only very few people who think a little bit in this holistic way, who have the competence, and then among these few people, there is even fewer who stick out the neck. But we need a fundamental change in our educational system. Publications are important, for sure. But on top, we need to teach young people to solve problems. Here we are dealing with a global health problem. We need to do this on behalf of society.

What society are we living? If you're just pumping tons of money in publications. That cannot be the... The children. I mean, at the center of this is, I think, one of the most catastrophic parts of this, the most disgusting part of this entire story, is that we knew children were not affected by this virus in any measurable way. We wrecked their innate immune system, which you were crying about.

You were saying there is obviously a risk, a greater risk of health complications from this vaccine than the virus itself. for the first time ever, we use children as shields to protect the elderly, it seems to me. Well, you know, children and pregnant women, that was one of the biggest violations of human ethics. Remember, pregnant women and women of child brain potential strictly excluded from the randomized trials as they came in in November. December 10th, when this vaccine program started the United States, thousands of pregnant women were vaccinated. Now, what pregnant woman would come forward and do it, number one,

Number two, who would actually do that? They must know that that's not right. And then things took off. You know, terrible report came in spring of this year, Hoyert, National Center for Health Statistics, published on the CDC website. Maternal mortality in the United States all-time high. It's erased decades.

This is women dying with babies in the womb or 42 days afterwards. And we know the CDC separately has told us, 65% of women have delivered a baby in the United States took a shot either before their pregnancy or during the pregnancy. Wow. Yeah. There's no words. So, all right, well, I mean, look, you guys are doing brilliant work.

It's been fantastic to get to sort of sit here, share thoughts on this. Peter, the work you're doing, you have a substack. What's the best way to sort of watch the, and what are you up to right now? Yeah, follow me on my substack, courageous discourse. I get it out every day. Graphical abstract, so it's all manuscript-based. I reference all the papers I referenced today are on the substack with the graphical abstracts and You know I've recently started a foundation McCullough Foundation supporting work

investigative scholarship work in the the legal and the media and the regulatory governmental affairs space and then my podcast Merk out loud talk radio McCullough report I've interviewed Gert and so many scientists all the world it's an international problem we have a lot of smart people in this world we have to break down this very get together and lead us out of this. Indeed. Gear, where's the best way to follow the work that you're doing? Well, my next step is going to be for those who are interested.

I think there is so many things that I also discovered, although I was already relatively well prepared with regard to epidemics and pandemics, and I'm going to give a course online through the IPAC EDU organization. Here's that. Also in association with Robert Ferkirk's association. in the UK. And it will be, yeah, about epidemics and pandemics and just very scientific, I would say. But I will do my best to explain it to people in... Well, and we have a lot of doctors and scientists out in the audience, which is why I think on this show we do allow to get a little bit deeper into the weeds here.

Because it's not just about the viewing audience that, you know, or we're all dealing with this and sometimes it's a little bit over my head. But you guys need to hear each other, right? you need to hear what he's saying on my show, even if I don't fully understand it, because that's, there has to be a platform in which these conversations can happen. We're really proud to be a part of that here on the High Wire. So I just want to thank you both for traveling in here, your amazing work. Definitely, everyone, check out Geert's got a new book coming. And, you know, as I said before, look, all of these, what's happening here in the High Wire is an open discussion.

As you know, we may not know, we certainly don't know everything that's happening in science, but that's what the conversation's about. Hopefully, once again, we find out that the virus doesn't mutate to a place or hopefully somehow we reach a place where immunity is back and we get to natural immunity and we do it without too much more pain. Unfortunately, we are seeing all-cause mortality skyrocketing and certainly to continue with a vaccine that does not work for anybody in any university. By the way, as I sat there today, I just thought for all of you that are like calling and saying,

my university is going to force me to get a COVID vaccine. To me, that would be the perfect example and reason why that is not the university for you. You shouldn't be educated by morons, okay? If you want an education that's actually going to help you through your life, here's a really good litmus test. If these morons that are running your school are going to force you to take a product that clearly doesn't stop transmission only puts you at risk for myocardact. in the age group that you're in, then that cannot be an education system that you want to be a part of.

You should immediately not just walk away, run for your life, and find an education system that is hiring guys like this on both sides of me to educate you. Otherwise, that will be one useless education. I'm speaking next week. I'm going to be out, I believe, in Kansas for Freedom in the Heartland. I definitely want to have you check that out. That's going to be a great event. And that's next Friday. And what, we have a promo? Okay, and here's our promo.

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you the truth on the hottest topics vital to your health. I appreciate your segment for digging deep, looking at the data, what is real. Emmy Award-winning host, Dell Bigtree brings you the latest science and evidence, putting the power of factual information in your hand. Here's the evidence. Here's the science. Dell, thank you for your bravery and your team's bravery. Thank you for all you've done.

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And that's what the high wire is about. I'll see you next week. Get it all at the highwire.com. Well, it's amazing, you know, when you see just how poorly our government and officials and things are being run on this planet, We're all seeing it. I don't have to tell you. The cost of living is skyrocketing, fighting wars that make no sense, paying taxes for things that will never protect you. You know, forest fire, forget it. They're not going to be there. It's time to get involved. I mean, I think it's really

just that simple. We can sit back. We can complain about it. Or we can do what the two guys that just said on both sides of me did. We just put your money where your mouth is. Step up, you know, speak, talk, speak your truth, bring your truth, keep educating yourself, educate those around you, and let's all work together towards a better future. That's all we got. It starts with one step in front of the other. Don't look at the insurmountable odds. I want to say to you all that support the high wire, I didn't dream we'd be here. I didn't dream that we would have seven million viewers. I didn't aim for any of those things. All I said to the team when we started this back in the beginning of 2017 is, I have a feeling if we bring the truth that we know and that we're

investigating that that truth is so rare that people will be attracted to it. And slowly we went from tens of people to hundreds of people to thousands of people to hundreds of thousands and then millions. You do not change the world by immediately overnight, you know, doing something massive. You do it one step at a time. That step is your voice. That step is your truth. You're sharing this video makes a difference. You're giving us a dollar this month will actually make a difference. It's chaos theory. It's the butterfly flapping its wings and a hurricane on the other side of the planet.

Be that butterfly that makes a hurricane of change. That's what we're trying to do here on the high wire every single week. And I look forward to seeing you next week.