The Highwire with Del Bigtree - Episode 466: VACCINE UPTAKE, LIABILITY, AND ALUMINUM IN VACCINES

Episode Date: March 5, 2026

The HighWire with Del Bigtree — Episode 466 (March 5, 2026) opens with breaking legal and policy news: the Trump EPA has filed a brief at the U.S. Supreme Court backing Bayer/Monsanto and glyphosate (Roundup). Del breaks down what the government is arguing, what’s at stake for warning labels and litigation, and why the outcome could reshape corporate accountability around glyphosate-based herbicides.Then, Jefferey Jaxen covers the accelerating shift in public vaccine sentiment, as global vaccine uptake declines and pharmaceutical stocks react to falling demand. Del analyzes the latest reported data, including a major worldwide drop in Gardasil (HPV vaccine) uptake, and what these trends could signal for vaccine policy, mandates, and the future of the vaccine marketplace.Also, a dive into the growing national debate over vaccine manufacturer liability. New polling indicates strong public support for restoring legal accountability for vaccine makers, a key issue tied to vaccine injury protections, medical freedom, and federal vaccine policy.Plus, an in-studio scientific discussion you don’t want to miss: Del is joined by Dr. James Neuenschwander and Dr. Brian Hooker to break down a new study examining aluminum in vaccines and the potential implications for vaccine safety research, adverse event risk, and the broader childhood vaccination schedule.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

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Yeah. Action. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are out there in the world, it's time to step out into the high wire. Well, you know, I think we're all sitting here today wondering if talking about health and medicine and science has any bearing in the world as we're watching. war breakout or at least some sort of large skirmish involving lots of bombs and nations saying what the heck is going on. I'm one of those people saying what the heck is going on. Social media is amazing. You can look at both sides go, well, that makes sense. Well, that makes sense. One of these must be true, or can they both be true? But in the heart of it, we all get lost in the ideas of war

and we get focused on it. The news has our attention on it. Meanwhile, what's happening to the long-term safety and health of our nation, of our families, of our lives, of our food supply. Well, one of the things that thinks important to keep attention on, which is what we do here at the highwire, let's keep our attention on the things that we can do something about, things where our voices actually matter, especially when it comes to the future of our species and definitely our own children. This was a breaking story this last week that probably got buried in the news. Here's some of the headlines. Trump administration asks Supreme Court to back bear again aided by officials who came from bear's law firms.

It goes on. Trump administration backs Bears bid to curb round-up lawsuits. Here it is. We've been telling you this is coming Trump administration files Supreme Court brief backing bear assigned by attorneys with bear ties. This is a story we've been talking about a lot, but here it is the Trump administration's EPA. Our own EPA of the United States government has filed a brief in support of Monsanto Bear in the Supreme. Supreme Court case that will consider whether federal preemption overrides individuals' ability to bring state-level failure to warn lawsuits against pesticide manufacturers. Debrief comes just weeks after President Trump signed a controversial executive order invoking the Defense Production Act

of 1950, claiming that domestic production of elemental phosphorus and glyphosate is a matter of national security. I told you where this was all leading. U.S. Right to Know reported on Tuesday that three of the nine Justice Department lawyers who signed the brief has previously worked for law firms that represented Bear Monsanto. Shocker. The Trump administration's argument is that if the EPA didn't require a cancer warning on the label, when they were corrupted and totally controlled by this institution, states can't punish Bear for not including one. Essentially, I think it's pretty well laid out there. They're saying since the EPA never says it causes cancer and didn't put a cancer warning label on it, why should we as manufacturers have lawsuits

against us on something that people weren't warned about? It's your job to warn. Well, yes, Bear, Monsanto, but it was also your job to be honest with the people, to be honest with the EPA. In fact, the only real study that's referenced that, you know, the EPA used to say that the product is safe at all, is just retracted a couple of weeks ago because of all of its ties to industry and the fact that it's clearly just a giant piece of propaganda based in no truth. This is actually a story I've been covering all the way since 2015 when I wasn't on the high wire when I was the producer on the doctor's television show. This was my show.

I brought in Jeffrey Smith, the GMO activist, debate Donna Farmer, head of toxicology at Monsanto. This is May 18, 2015. I believe it was one week after the World Health Organization ruled that glyphosate, the main chemical in Roundup was probably carcinogenic to human beings. I think it was the biggest show on the topic. It had never been covered before, and no one had ever gotten Monsanto onto a television show. So I felt good about that.

It was a power-packed debate, but here we are. Over 10 years later, we've had lawsuits. That was before there's lawsuits. Now lawsuits proving that they knew this product causes non-Hodgkins lymphoma. So it causes cancer. It's horrible for the farmers that are using it. God knows how bad it is for all of us that are eating it and sprayed on 80 to 90% of our crops.

And while we're all watching bombs drop over in Iran, the real bomb is being dropped in our living rooms, in our kitchens, in our refrigerators, when our own government is trying to give liability protection to the makers of this product that lied to us, that lied to us about safety, lied to the EPA. So is this what we're supposed to understand? If you get away with lying to the EPA, if you can somehow hide any decent safety problems that occur,

if you can just never talk about cancer and convince the EPA, it's perfectly safe with a bunch of fraudulent data. As soon as they give it that checkmark, then no lawsuits for us, mission accomplished, we can't go back. Hey, you already took our line of baloney and you believed it. Therefore, it's now your problem, the American people's problem, not us making millions, billions, and trillions of dollars off. products. It's really shameful. It's shameful that instead of making better products in this country, what large industries, these too big to fail industries, decide the better, cheaper way to go is to use all of our lobbyists in Washington to just go in and give us liability protection. So however long this Iranian war lasts or what this leads to, we're all watching it. At the end of it,

we will still be sitting down at our dinner tables. And the question will be, Wait a minute. When did we lose control of what was in our food supply? When did we start getting poisoned and have no recourse? No market force. I mean, really, President Trump, I thought that you had some sort of libertarian values. I thought you believed in the market forces. And in here, your government is going to insert itself into the market forces that demand better products, which is our ability to sue. This was done when Ronald Reagan did this with the vaccine program. And now here we are again. Folks, we have got to step up.

We have got to let everyone that represents us know we are not going to stand for this. You are not going to have a contaminated food supply that we can't do anything about. What hope will there be? What changes can we make? What evolution? How are we ever going to get to regenerative farming more funding than we've ever seen coming from this administration? But it won't matter. Who's going to do it if you can't be sued?

What farmer will do? Why do I have to retool? Why should I learn a new way forward when the safest place where I can definitely never be sued is if I keep giving poison to the people? We ran a poll last week on this, and it was amazing how many of you really were well informed. Thousands of you answered, overwhelmingly majority, said that 95.6% of you were aware that glyphosate herbicides have been linked to more than 10 billion in cancer. Good on you. 89% of you oppose the federal stockpile of glyphosate-based herbicides as part of a national preparedness planning. 97.8% of you respondents oppose legal immunity for manufacturers glyphosate-based herbicides.

Thank God you were awake. 80% say the November 2025 retraction of a foundational safety study has affected their trust in current glyphosate safety claims. I want to thank everybody that jumped onto that poll. It sure was fun. And if you were in that poll and you gave us your email, we gave you a whole breakdown, a beautiful program that laid out all that we learned from that detail. And we are submitting that to the powers that be that we know inside of the government. It's also been picked up by many news programs around the world. So we're really happy anytime we can get truth and transparency into the conversation.

I know Bonnie Harri was on last week. She came up with the idea. I think it's time to march on the Supreme Court. They're going to be hearing this case that our own government is now supporting to try and create liability protection on April 27th. So I hope you'll put this in your calendar. The people versus poison, lots of great people are now brainstorming on how to put this event together.

We'll be in there helping us every way that we can. But I think this is maybe one of the most important moments. There will be in the future of our health, especially if you're. you know, want to believe that we are making America healthy again in any way. We certainly can't do it with a contaminated food supply. And I wonder where we'd be. Had the high wire been here back in 1986 when they tried to do this with vaccines. Where would we be if we'd have stood outside of the capitals and marched and said no, instead of hopping onto a panel and saying, okay, we'll take this. Can we get a few concessions that go our way? Didn't happen. I have a brilliant, by the way, interview with Barbara Lowe Fisher, who was one of the families in the center of that.

You should really check it out. It's in the archives where she was one of the people that helped try to write the 1986 Act and get some good out of it. She'd be the first one to tell you they ended up cheating the entire thing at the very end. So we've got to stand up for our rights. This is a free country. The United States of America only works if all of our available tools for freedom exist. Market forces require you've got to advertise your product. got to be informed what it can and cannot do. I have to be informed of the dangers that are involved

with that product, and then I can decide to use it. Or maybe a competitor of yours can come along and say, hey, we've got a product that isn't poisoning anybody. But you remove those market forces. You take away our ability to sue. You take away our ability to choose. And now we have a serious problem. You have a monopoly system. You have really, you know, a corporate-driven government, which is what we have been trying to get around. We'll see how well that goes as this year pans out. But I hope that you've marked in your calendar April 27th in Washington, D.C. All right, I have a huge show coming up.

Some of the luminaries, you know, it's wild hell. One moment, all of a sudden one show they all descend in. I'm going to be talking to Aaron Siri, who just spread the message probably on the largest platform in the world appearing on Joe Rogan just two days ago, I guess, was March 3rd. There was an amazing conversation that is changing hearts and minds around this country and around the world. We're also going to talk to him about a letter sent by Dr. Stanley Plotkin. If you've been watching this show long enough, you know that he deposed Plotkin for 10 hours.

Apparently, Plotkin is not happy about that deposition. Definitely is not happy that Aaron Siri has written about him extensively in his book, Vaccines, Amen, and he is bitching about it. We're going to talk to Aaron about that. And then I sit down in just a little while with Dr. James Nguyen Schwander and Dr. Brian Hooker, who have a brand new study out that is mind-blowing. It looks like they have managed to figure out the connection between the aluminum adjuvants and vaccines and autism. That's right. You heard it here first.

The science is out. I think there's a connection. We're going to talk about how they came to that conclusion. But first is time for the Jackson Report. Oh, Jeffrey. I mean, it feel like, you know, we throw up flags. You throw up balloons. You're like fireworks.

Everyone pay attention. They're trying to get the liability protection. And then here in the shadows of bombs going off, in the back little dark rooms, you know, these lawyers that have always worked for the industry are now working for our government and working against us. It's such a typical story. political leadership has a real big fight on their hands and we're coming again right into midterms here and i want to show this this was going into this this rapidly escalating conflict in iran this is the american government this is how many people trusted the american government this is pew research end of 2025 you can see here by this poll percentage 17 percent on this far right corner of this

graph say they trust the government in washington to do what is right just about always or most of the time? 17%. Look at the lost percentage over the years, just going down and down and down. So they're at a point here. Political leaders, leadership in government, the president, Kennedy,

with these midterms coming up, we're being led to think we're very divided here. And politicians are trying to find the really the home run topics, to bipartisan topics, to bring people together, get the votes, to get the popularity back into their political lane, but they're being ignored and they're being siloed in Washington

because there are these topics. These topics are out there, and I just don't think they're hearing them yet. Here's the headlines. Most voters want immunity for vaccine companies removed. This is a poll. Six and 10 respondents said all vaccine immunity for companies should be abolished. Wow.

So this is the idea here. Immunity, artificial, highly- artificial immunity that goes against free markets, American markets. These should never, have never, and should never be put on companies. And as you mentioned, the ICAM poll we just did, we had an astounding 97.8% of respondents opposed legal immunity for manufacturers of glyphosate. That's the strongest consensus in the survey. But the people, organizations, nonprofits, they're doing their own polls. And these are getting to Washington as well. These are getting to leaders as well. Here's Brownstone Institute and Health Freedom Defense Fund. They did their own

set of polls as well. Supermajority of voters support health and medical freedom. We're being lied to by the media. These are the numbers that these are the numbers that the people on the street are telling you. Overwhelming majority here of HHS people at HHS across Republicans, Democrats, support the vaccine safety research, say it's justified. Overwhelming majority want a commission on psych meds and mass shootings. Overwhelming majority want free market farmers, no pesticide immunity. But here's the big one. Overwhelming majority, remove Prep Act COVID liability shield. That's 68.9% of Republicans, 52.5% of Democrats. And remove the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. That's the vaccine liability for the

childhood vaccine. 68.5% of Republicans, 51.9% of Democrats. This reaches across both aisles. That is, that is a problem. I don't know if we've seen a consensus on a topic like that in a decade. I mean, that is really incredible. And it makes sense, right? But even on an issue as controversial as vaccines, even those that you would think were like the pro-vaccin side are saying we still don't want an unnatural market force where it's just protected. Right, right. And you can see in Washington, they're getting one conversation saying, look, stay away from vaccines, especially during the midterms. They're not popular. They're going to make you lose votes, that's not true. Because at the state level here, we have another record. Once again,

a couple weeks ago we had Don Richardson on, the head of NVIC National Vaccine Information Center's advocacy arm, and she talked about how many state-level vaccine bills are being passed. Well, we hit a new record here. Here is the new record. Filed. 825 has been filed since the beginning of this year alone, vaccine-related bills. So whatever they're being told in Washington at the federal level. The state levels are burning with this fight. The fight is at every state house across the United States. Here's one of them that appears not to be paying attention to the polls. This is in Colorado. Colorado bill creates new adult vaccine liability shield while authorizing pharmacists to independently prescribe vaccines. This bill establishes a legal presumption. Get this, that properly

administered vaccines do not cause injury or death. This is the most unscientific, unprofessional, popular, literally against the polls, cutting across the grain of all the polls, Bill that I think we've ever seen. It goes against the very insert wrapped around the vaccine, as you and I both know, warning labels written on their death injury happen every single year from these products to go with an assumption that there is no safety problem. Why don't we just say for all drugs? I always say this, Jeffrey. Then why does the state of Colorado just say all drugs are perfectly safe? Take as many as you want, never be able to suit. They can tell you whatever they want, tell you, you know, whatever it can do, they can dream it up. Let's just say 100% just blanket immunity for all

things pharmaceutical. You might as well do that. Because what difference is? There's no difference between a vaccine and a drug except for something in your crazy little brains that says, well, if it's called a vaccine and it's certainly not the same thing as a drug. They're just two different words. Both have totally dangerous elements in it. In fact, I would argue that vaccines are worse in most drugs. They have live viruses and bacteria and all sorts of things that can go wrong. Plasmids and God knows what, MRI technology that can manipulate your DNA. Oh, but let's make that perfectly safe. It's just crazy that people are accepting this and continue to reelect leadership in Colorado. Exactly. And, you know, it's interesting because drugs, at least you have your stomach and the kidneys

and the filtration system that God gave you for your stomach. With the vaccines, you've mainline them right into a kid's vein, as Bill Gates would say. So we have some more bills here. This is out of New York, a state that's usually somewhat adversarial to medical freedom, informed consent. This is Senate Bill S-5910. This establishes liability for injuries caused by required immunizations.

It says establishes a claim for strict liability against the state. So you're going against New York. For any injury caused by the administration of an immunization, which is mandated by the state, gives the court of claims the power and jurisdiction to hear such a claim. So forget about the federal level, the state has to pony up here. You're going to sue the state because the state advertised these vaccines and someone

received an injury or a death from them. The state will have to hear this in federal court. They'll be the person being sued, which seems like it makes sense. It does. I like that. I mean, because most people don't really realize all the federal government does is recommend. It's the states that turn that into a mandate. So I think that that's, you know, hitting the thing right where, you know, nipping it in the

but, if you will, right where it happens, why would the federal government be involved? We're suing the state. You're the ones that took a recommendation and went way behind recommending it. Now you're forcing me to take it. I can't go to school. I can't use my taxpayer dollars the way that they're supposed to be used unless I submit to your will. I like that law. That's a great one. And if they're so safe and effective, the state should put their legal liability on the line to support that. That would be if you want to end vaccine hesitancy, there's a great way to do that. So here's another article that said at NBC News, RFK Jr. CDC panel to discuss COVID vaccine injuries in upcoming media. Of course, this is the ASIP meeting. We have two weeks. It will be happening. And this is the Federal Register. They put this in the Federal Register. They're actually required by a lot to do this. And this is the announcement. And look at what they're going to do. It says matters to be considered. The agenda will include updates on ASIP working groups and discussions on COVID-19 vaccine injuries. I've been waiting for this for a long time. And long COVID and ASIP recommendation methodology, recommendation votes may be scheduled.

for COVID-19 vaccine injuries and long COVID. So this is a really big deal. Now, ASEP doesn't have rulemaking authority. So they're not gonna be able to change the PREP Act. They're not gonna be able to change the national vaccine compensation fund or anything like that, but they can get the ball rolling. They put a national spotlight on this.

They can commission studies. They can look at how much has been paid out, or rather how little has been paid out to Americans who have been injured by the COVID-19 vaccine, just basically some medical bills, some pitilary medical bills. That's all that's been paid out here. Thousands of people, tens of thousands of people have been filing.

And that's just with a one-year statute of limitations. So they can recommend the limitations be extended. So this isn't just an American problem. And this is why this is great America is leading this. This is in the UK. Check this out. This is a BBC headline. Firm assessing COVID vaccine harm replaced after cost spiral to 48 million pounds.

It says nearly 50 million pounds of taxpayer. money has been paid by the NHS to an outsourced firm assessing claims of medical harm caused by vaccines the BBC has found. The figure is eight times the amount originally estimated for the assessment work carried out by Crawford and Company adjusters and almost 20 million pounds more than the total so far awarded to those injured or bereaved as the result of a COVID-19 vaccine. It goes on to say the firm's five-year contract initially estimated to be worth six million pounds has more than a year left to run. However, our new company will start taking over the work in the coming months. Think about that. The firm said, we're going to, here's our estimate.

They're going now tens of millions of pounds over that estimate, paying just to assess the injuries, paying way more just to assess the injuries than giving the actual payouts to the people that have been injured or have died from this. This is a massive problem, not only in America, but across the world. And it looks like UK's responses to get rid of that company and bring in a new one. If I read that correctly, it's like, let's not stick with this company to say, hey, Houston, you got a problem in here. What's that? No, can't hear you. La, la, la, la, la, oh, I'm sorry. You didn't get our memo. You're fired. You're fired. We're bringing in a new company to carry the agenda, act like nothing is going on, and get us back to not paying off or even investigating all these

issues. I'm sure that's where this is going. We've been doing this long enough. And the immunity protection is the weak point. It's the weak point in the Death Star, if you will. So it's artificially propped up a product line, a market share. You can't sue for harms. It's created no incentive to make a better product. Obviously, you have the government pushing these, mandating these, making sure the science is settled.

So there'll never be a question in vaccine court when the DOJ is suing or is being sued. You can't actually come up with the science to defend yourself as somebody who's been injured. by these vaccines. Now, this is a really important point we're at right now because in 1986, there was a moment there, you mentioned with Barbara Lowe Fisher, there's a moment there that this immunity could have been canceled out.

That was always the plan, no immunity. There's another moment now. There's a vulnerability after the pandemic as we sit with Kennedy at HHS, that this immunity, if you take out this janga block, this is a very weak point for Big Pharma, they can have a restabilization of what the market should be. What am I saying?

This is the mainstream headlines now. This is out of Reuters. Vaccine slump risks a downward financial spiral. This market is already teetering. So another one. Vaccine sales drop under RFK Jr. and Trump. How much? Well, let's look at this chart here.

You can see at the bottom left, all the way down there, compared 24 to 2025. RSV vaccines, negative 40% in 2025 compared to the prior year. Influenza vaccines, negative 33%. percent. Shingles, negative 19 percent. COVID. I'm surprised COVID's not more, negative 17, but you can see there, they're having a big problem selling these. They're having a big problem with uptake. And you read the media, and the media will say, they're trying to, they're trying to just make a limited hangout and say, you know what, it's just RFK Jr. That's all it is.

If he wouldn't have stepped into HHS, we would be selling these vaccines like hotcakes. Well, that is not the case, because this is a headline that refutes that. Birth dose of hepatitis B vaccine on decline in U.S. before CDC's scrap recommendation. It says between 2023 and 2025, rates of hepatitis B vaccination within 30 days after birth dropped more than 10 percentage points they reported in JAMA. So we have a problem here. It's not just RFK Jr. It's the pandemic.

It's the mandate. Pharma is on the ropes right now when it comes to their product lines. They're not making the money they used to. They need that immunity. And that's why they're pushing these lobbyists into Washington. And so they're also having issues with other vaccines besides influenza, shingles, RSV. Here's a headline out of North Carolina. Merck to wind down garter cell production at North Carolina plant lay off 150 plus.

I'm sorry for the job loss, but it goes on to say the cuts are a result of Merck's decision to end production of guard cell and garter cell nine at the site on old Oxford Road because they say, quote, because of the recent worldwide reduction in demand for the product. product, Amanda Taylor, VP of plant management and vaccine operations wrote. And it also goes on and say this, all told, worldwide garter cell sales fell 39% to $5.2 billion last year, with Merck also citing lower sales in Japan following a national catch-up immunization program. So there's, in Japan, they're saying, fireside sale. We need to give them kids all the shots at once. The second they come to their pediatrician, they're still not getting them. And this is not just happening across the world. Let's go to California, one of the hotbeds of mandated vaccines. California

schools with low rates lose millions in funds. So this is kind of a bellwether here. It says because California school funding is related to their vaccine uptake in children. It says the loss of average daily attendance funding was the result of state audits of more than 1,000 public schools with more than 10% of kindergartners or seventh grade students were not fully vaccinated in 2023, 24. More years that Kennedy wasn't available. So it's not Kennedy on this one. And you can go into this chart here and you can see what they're talking about. It's really interesting. If you go to the far right of the chart, that's 2025. You can see here, Fresno, Big Creek Elementary, 100% of the students were not, didn't have all the required vaccines. San Bernardito,

Lucerne Valley unit school, 80.6% of the kids didn't have it. And then Los Angeles Unified, massive school, 69.2%. of children there. Kindergarten, seventh graders didn't have all the required vaccines. Massive, massive slump in vaccination across the state there in California. And I have to say, you guys, I lived in California and so many people that watch this show do. That is hard to do in California. It is hard to get to that gauntlet and not have every vaccine. There's so many toll booths set up on your journey to your children's schools that you cannot seem to get through it. So the numbers are dropping like that.

the numbers in children arriving for school, they're not getting paid if they're not in school. They're the ones that kicked all of us out. I mean, you know, half of Austin now, where I now live and left in 2019, it's filled with people that are, you know, running from California because of that mandated school project. And now you watch California saying it doesn't matter what the CDC says, dropping that to the Denmark study, not, I mean, the Denmark schedule, not here in California. We're going to stick the whole schedule. So as long as Gavin Newsom keeps making decisions like that in other states, I think you're going to see them losing money in their education.

And as you pointed out, I think what is so important when you actually look at the dates and the numbers these studies are coming from, they want to blame it all on Robert Kennedy Jr. The truth is, Robert Kennedy Jr. represents how many people in this nation felt this way, cared about these topics, that he would be put into that position. It was a powerful enough voting block that Donald Trump saw. I will definitely win if I bring that voting block in. He seems to be a little bit dizzy at the moment and forgetting how important this voting block is with some of the decisions he's making, which is why we're going to be loud and proud and reminding him why Robert Kennedy Jr. is there at all, not because he's changing things, because he's finally representing the population that the majority, unbelievable, Jeffrey,

the majority now want an end to the liability protection. Frankly, Jeffrey, if that was achieved, if Ray and Paul gets this bill through when we were able to take away the liability protection, I'd almost be done there. I don't even care. Fine, we don't even need the science. We don't need the studies because pharma knows.

You would watch a change in the vaccine program, not made by Robert Kennedy Jr., made by the industry that's been getting away with not paying for all the lawsuits. If they had to pay for the lawsuits, suddenly they're going to do the science. And guess what? They already have done that science and they know and you would start seeing a reduction in this vaccine program for our kids. Jeffrey, amazing reporting. It's incredible all that's going on on a global level things seems so intense, but we cannot forget this fuse is still lit for future pandemics and global control of populations. So thank you for staying focused on it. All right.

You bet. I'll see you next week. All right. Well, you know, our own Aaron Siri had an opportunity to hop on. I think it's still considered the number one podcast in the world with Joe Rogan. This is what that looked like. Take look. Before you had looked into this, what was your opinions on medical science? What was your opinions on vaccines? I had what you would effectively call the mainstream view. The vaccine saved humanity. Me too. We'd all be dead without them. Until this COVID epidemic, I would have never questioned it. I mocked anti-vaccines. And the, this blatant propaganda that we were forced fed, it just made me stop and pause and go, is the whole thing like this? Is this whole thing just a dirty money laundering operation? Why would I assume that this is the one area where pharmaceutical drug companies, doctor, everybody has been totally honest in this one area when it's like a religious thing if you question it?

And that's the, well, I love the title of your book. Vaccines Amen. Yeah. The religion of vaccines. You, it's, that's what it is. Vaccines really sit in their own little universe. They're unlike any other medical product. The only product, and I mean this literally, the only product in America where you cannot sue to say,

had you made that product safer, my child wouldn't be dead. My child wouldn't be seriously injured. are childhood vaccines and child vaccines used by adults. It's the only one. Think about how incredibly harmful and how much harm these vaccines must do that they cannot survive on the market without this immunity from 1986.

Wouldn't you say, look, we can't have frivolous lawsuits against these people that are providing us the most important medication that's available to humans? the whole reason why we survive smallpox and polio and all these different things. It's these vaccines. Without them, we'd all be dead.

How many deaths were there in America the year before the vaccine was first introduced? For example, measles, the dreaded measles that they say everybody will die from. No measles vaccine, we're all going to die, right? That is the impression they give you. You have any idea how people died of measles in the years before there was a measles vaccine in the United States? About 400 a year. That's it? That's it. Between 1900 and the late 1950s or early 1960s, the mortality from measles declined in the United States by over 98%.

You know what didn't cause that? Vaccines. Yeah, because it didn't exist. It was probably better sanitation, better acute medical care. I mean, all kinds of things. Are you a real problem at a cocktail party? Like, have you ever had a conversation that just went completely sideways? they started getting angry at you for quoting things?

It's not a problem for me because I don't know emotions or feelings about the products. They're just products. They think that they know, okay? But they don't know intellectually. They've never looked at the primary sources. So when you challenge them with evidence, what can they draw from the intellect? No. They draw from their emotions.

They draw up in their feelings and that's why they get angry. But I also often get folks who are just curious and interested to listen. Well, I think there's more of those now than there's ever been before. On behalf of ICAN, which is the InformCCRAC, nonprofit that our law often represents, we sent a Freedom of Information Act request, FOIA request, to the CDC and we said, hey, your website says vaccines do not cause autism. Great.

Please give us the studies that show that have B vaccine, given three times in the first six months of life, do not cause autism. D-TAP vaccine, IPV vaccine, PCV vaccine. They have nothing. There are no studies. They could not produce one that showed the vaccines given in the first expense of life to not cause autism. They are creating more vaccine hesitancy with that kind of conduct than anything that you and I could do on this podcast. It's very important what you do because it's crazy to say that being honest in this regard is courageous.

But it is courageous because I've seen you attacked. I've seen crazy that people said about you. I don't imagine a whole lot of people are lining up to debate you about this. Well, an amazing milestone moment. I think we keep checking the box on things that we wanted to see as we got on to this journey. Of course, there were, you know, days, years where Highwire was here telling the truth where Joe Rogan was pro-vaccine and his entire team was pro-vaccine. Believe it or not, we've come a long way. And of course, now seeing Aaron Siri. Not the first, by the way. We've watched Dr. Peter McCullough and so many other people on Joe Rogan. but it was really nice to actually see the guy that's responsible for many of the talking points

everyone's using Aaron Siri there on Joe Rogan. So it's my pleasure and my honor, as always, to bring in the attorney for the informed consent action network, Aaron Siri. Aaron, good to see you. You too, Dow, good to see you. What everyone just missed is you running in in your underwear getting dressed because we're about 10 minutes ahead. Now, he had to put his tie on, had to put his job. jacket, you're looking calm, reserved, even though we were watching you. Sorry to catch you by surprise there. But what was a surprise was Joe Rogan. I think this is the beauty of writing a book

like you have. It seems to have, you know, created a space for people to really look deeper and ask deeper questions. So what was it like? Do you sit there on a show like Joe Rogan and think this is about to be seen by millions of people. Do you get that sense? Because it's so low key. What a big moment that was for this conversation. You don't feel that. I didn't, well, at least I didn't feel that. You know, Joe's a very personable guy. And when you're sitting in that one room, it just feels like you're having a conversation. Yeah. You know, it might, it seems bigger on the screen frankly than it is when you're doing it. It just seems like feels like, you know, just having a conversation. So, you know, and he would be, they just at the end there,

he even brought up the Brady Bunch episode, which is an argument we've been making for years. If things like measles is so dangerous, why was there a laugh track to it? You know, when you think about your book and you are doing so many interviews, I mean, that I think being a pinnacle, but almost every major podcaster out there, what would you say is the thing that is catching people the most by surprise in the work? Because we've been at this so long, but, you know, I'm out there talking a lot of times for years before you. Now you were like just meeting podcasters and people. When they're asking questions, are you surprised at all at what some of those questions are or where they're at?

Yeah, I mean, it does amaze me sometimes, but that's the reason that ICAN does the work it does. That's the reason for all to get informed information on the ICANN website. That's the reason for the book. That's the reason you're out there talking on every podcast. Why I'm out there is, but it's still amazing. Even with all of that coverage, there is still a lot of basic information about these products that folks just still don't know. I encounter folks all the time who, despite being part of whether it's Maha or being part of medical liberty, some folks don't know about the extent of the immunity that these products enjoy.

They don't understand the truly vacuous nature of the pre-licensure clinical trials. They don't understand the vacuous nature, the post-licensure clinical trials were reflected by even the lack of studying the most commonly claimed arm autism, as well as the fact that most of them don't stop transmission. and the false claim about mortality, you know, that these vaccines, millions would die without them. You know, those five core myths that have developed around these products. So we just got to keep beating it. We just got to keep going. I'm amazed even that there are, I've met with some of the top biohackers and the people that are very famous will say to me like at a dinner,

but Del, you're not against all vaccines, are you? Like, I'm really amazed that I say, well, I mean, I always answered that with, I'm just against injecting myself or my children with any products that haven't been through a safety study, which happens to be every vaccine currently on the market for children. And they, like, you can see this look in the face. Like, they just, even though they're on our side and they want informed consent, it still is still so shocking that it hasn't fully gotten into the bones, there is no science here, right? There's no science. And you can still see them holding on the little corners, little shadow, little, you know, like, you know, somewhere out there, there's got to be something that makes this all okay. So, you know, that's what I find surprising in people that you would normally think, well, they're with us. We hear them, but are talking about vitamins and health.

But deep down at dinner, well, it's not all vaccines, right? Well, what about like meni jacococcal, you know, things like that? But when you're talking about, when you're talking about, you know, these people. Obviously you're an attorney, you're a lawyer, you know, you're not giving advice per se, but when you describe this as a religion, do you think that that talking point is working? Is it because Joe Rogan says, I get that now, it makes sense? I think it is. I think it works because in some ways it helps alleviate a bit of the cognitive dissonance, right? Because it's hard to come to the conclusion that the CDC, the FDA, the federal health authorities, all 50 state health agencies, and the entire medical profession for the most part,

not all of them, most of them, have got it wrong on vaccines. That's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of folks, because if you reach that place for a lot of people, it's like, whoa, then what else can't I believe in. What can I trust? And it really creates serious cognitive dissonance. And I think that understanding that vaccines really do fall into their own unique bucket. They genuinely do. There are problems with many products. Yeah. Okay. Nothing has the level or the issues that vaccines have. No other product gets to have 40 years of just completely unfettered push by the industry with billions of dollars a year promoting their views with almost no push, real serious pushback. You know, they claim, I love it when they say the well-funded oiled machine of anti-vaxxer movements. You mean like just the few groups that are trying to promote safety, right?

That's really all they're real. When they've got billions, billions of federal dollars, billions of federal dollars, billions of. billions of pharma money, and what is there? There's ICAN with the few million dollar budget. There's CHD with a few million dollar budget, and it goes down real fast from there. That's all there is. So, you know, in any event, it can cause serious cognitive dissonance,

but when you put it into that box and they understand that vaccines really are this unique thing, they're like, okay, I get it. Vaccines are a unique product because of the immunity to liability. which then caused the lack of safety pre and post licensure and ended up conflicting the agency. Okay, now it makes sense and why I can accept the vaccines have this serious problem without just blowing up my entire worldview and not being able to trust anything. Yeah. Well, look, you're right.

I mean, they do complain. They do refer to us as a well-oiled machine. And frankly, we have caused a lot of difficulty with a few million dollars to a multi-billion dollar industry. And for everyone watching right now, I love it when Aaron gets to come on. You get to see what you're funding. This guy who's brilliant on Rogan, but also brilliant in a courtroom, the work that you've been doing, Aaron, has been changing the world. And we're so happy to have found you and been able to, you know, have all of these great people that are watching the high wire and supporting our work, supporting that work that you do for us because it is obviously changing the world. Speaking of, though, you know,

there's these things that sort of come around full circle. One of the first things very early on that you did was depose Dr. Stanley Plotkin. We have that on our website, you know, the Stanley Plotkin deposition, 10 hours long. Folks, you can watch clips of it. You can watch the whole thing. There's transcripts. Maybe one of the most important depositions of all times. But for anyone that might be new, let me just really quickly just run this little video.

So you have a sense of who, Dr. Stanley Plotkin is, because I'm about to read a letter that he sent to Aaron years after being deposed still really pissed off. But here's Stanley Plotkin. It is my great honor to use the Stanley Plotkin gavel to open this meeting. A good friend and colleague, Dr. Stan Plotkin. Dr. Plotkin. Virtually every country in the world is affected by his vaccines. He was involved in pivotal trials on anthrax, oral polio, rabies vaccine. Rebella vaccine, the rhodovirus vaccine, He has earned the Distinguished Physician Award of the Pediatric Infectious Disease Society, the Finland Award of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases,

the Hillman Award of the American Society for Microbiology, the French Legion of Honor, and the Bruce Medal in Preventive Medicine. He's a member of the Institute of Medicine and the French Academy of Medicine. One of the very special things about him is the global impact that he's had, not just from the products, but from his book. He developed the standard textbook for vaccines in 1988. Bill Gates calls his book a Bible for vaccinologists. I hope you all have indeed read the book, and I hope it's more accurate than the Bible.

He trained just a generation of scientists, including myself, to think like he thinks. Well, if you haven't watched any of the Plotkin Deposition, definitely check it out. Some mind-blowing revelations. I always say when you first sent me that transcript, Aaron, we didn't have the video yet, but it was, you know, it was hundreds of pages from a 10-hour deposition. And I always say it was like, and I came, you know, I worked in Hollywood. It was like reading a few good men. I just was waiting for Plotkin to just yell, you can't handle the truth at some point.

So many times you just took him down these narrow corridors and just left him abandoned where, you know, he had to admit that he had actually just lied to you about his statements. It's an incredible thing. But I guess because you're mentioning him in your book, he's sent this. this letter, which I have right here. I'm just going to read the first paragraph in the last paragraph. This is from Dr. Stanley Plotkin. Mr. Siri, I have heard that you have published a book criticizing me in my testimony in a case revolving around whether or not to vaccinate the child of a divorced couple. I do remember walking that testimony pro bono, appearing without materials,

reasonably expecting that my appearance would only require brief testimony. I made the mistake of remaining under cross-examination for 10 hours, with the lawyer who requested my testimony only present by telephone and allowing the cross-examination to run so long. He ends by saying, at the end of my life, I will have been credited for protecting millions of children from diseases and even death, whereas you, Mr. Siri, will be responsible for dead and sick, unvaccinated children. That will be your shameful legacy resulting from your irresponsible anti-vaccination campaign. Pretty harsh words from Dr. Plotkin. We have shown FOIA requests where after you deposed him, he went back to, what was it, Walter Ornstein, I think,

and Paul Offit and a couple people in an email saying, we have a real problem on our hands. I was just deposed by a lawyer that asks me questions that no one is ready to handle. they've started a library system, some way to train people to be able to handle debates with guys like you. And still, has anyone actually on purpose from that moment on debated you on this topic? I've tried. I've offered all of them, you know. I mean, look, that in many ways folks say, hey, we've got to have the debate about vaccine safety. We've got to have the debate. Yeah.

Oh, I would say that deposition is the debate. here's the world's leading vaccinologist and i'm not sure you know what he means by he didn't have a chance to prepare he had his whole life to prepare he's the world's leading vaccinologist he's literally the you know the the the editor of the standard medical textbook on vaccines along with as you see in your screen paul off at dr katherine edwards who are also deposed after that and walter orinstein and um you know um i don't what he would do to prepare i'm not sure as I put in my response letter to him, I'm ready to have another one tomorrow.

In fact, I'm ready to debate. I even offered him in my response to given the most favorable possible terms of a redo if he wants. Number one, he can pick whoever he wants. He can come himself or he can pick between Paul Offit or, you know, two other folks to come as, you know, in his place.

Peter Hote, as you mentioned in there, yeah. Bring them all, I think you said, bring them all. I said bring them all too. I said two. I said number two. Instead of me just doing it as a question back and forth, we could even do 10 minutes, 10 minutes. So equal time. And the only thing I said is we just have to have a screen. We could put up evidence. So we go back and forth. I mean, shoot. When I took that deposition almost eight years ago, I knew a fraction of what I know today, substantively, about the topic. So, I mean, I'm really, I actually would love it to redo. And so, you know,

but of course he's not going to do that, nor will pull off it, made that same offer to now twice publicly after he came after me by the way on twitter didn't work out for him then he came after me on substack didn't work out for him and then he retreated so but i offered him the same thing let's have it as many hours as you want pick the location we'll sit down we go back and forth equal time no gotchas no no no quote unquote he's a lawyer who's got lawyer tricks. No lawyer tricks, just evidence, just the facts. You know, anybody who watched the deposition could see. There's no ad hominem. There's no tricks. There's no pejoratives. It's just evidence going back and forth. Well, I wish I could read your whole response letter

because it's priceless. If I had you read it take about 10 minutes, but I'm going to read it just a couple. If you're off, you should be following Aaron's substack. I think the whole exchange is there eight years after deposing Dr. Plotkin, the godfather vaccine. He sends me a letter. But let me just read a couple of paragraphs from this response. It's fantastic. It starts out by saying, thank you for your letter. Your letter claims dissatisfaction with our exchange about vaccine safety seven years ago. You complained the exchange was long and you appeared without materials. The reality, which you miss, which understandably still have not come to terms with, is that your dissatisfaction stems from the fact that our exchange revealed

the damning gaps in the safety of a childhood vaccines and that the discipline of vaccination. Vaccinology overall is unscientific and dangerous. Perhaps your biggest regret should be what was made clear in that deposition. Your approach to vaccinology is to presume vaccines are safe, regardless of whether the evidence supports that presumption. This presumption has, sadly, resulted in devastating harm to the countless families who have contacted my firm regarding serious vaccine injuries. As the leader of the field of vaccinology, you could have corrected course.

Instead, you chose a path of censorship by deleting back. vaccine harms seeking to create studies to validate safety not to study it and to dehumanize those who challenge your views. I implore you to consider that those seriously injured, sometimes killed by vaccines also matter. Their lives, their suffering, and their families, they matter. Even though you think saving children from infectious disease will be your legacy, sadly, you are mistaken. Your overreach and disregard for the harms caused by vaccines is no different then the harms caused by bygone medical products. While those products may have done some good, history remembers the harms and injustice

of those injured and ignored. In this case, that would also include those mistreated and labeled as a global health threat. When the tide turns, and it will turn, you will be the face of that harm. That shall be your legacy unless you correct course. There is still time. There is so much more this letter, folks. Go check it out on the substack. But what I love about you, Aaron, is, you know, even though you joke and, you know, you play around with the fact that you could have a debate, you're very serious on this topic and you are very seriously fighting for the rights of families and especially their children that have experienced grievous harm from these products.

When you look at the state of where we're at today, there's a lot has changed. We've made a lot of progress. What are your thoughts? Are we near the end of this road? Are we somewhere in the middle? What has to happen now? As people are watching right now, how do we carry ourselves? Because there's so many distractions in the world.

And I think there's a lot of people that says, hey, man, we're almost there. We got Bobby Kennedy inside the White House. As I've said before, I think on this show, you never win, so to speak, when it comes to rights. right it's it's right sit on a pendulum and there are always those who are going to try to take it away from you and there are those who are going to fight back and you know if you stop even as even if you're winning you're killing them and the pendulum is like all the way here and you're like man we won it they're there there's those forces pushing back and you you let go with that pressure it's going to go foop all the way to the other side so you know the way i think about it is that yes things are going in the

right direction. And what does the right direction to me means, you know, are we going to be able to get rid of the immunity to liability with when farmers got a thousand lobbyists and we've got basically zero? Very, very tough. Are we going to get to get federal health agencies to do the right thing when, for the most part, who's lobbying them? Who has the time inclination and ability to influence them? industry not everyday citizens look at this to see look at what the the the the department of justice just did with the EPA just now they went into the u.s supreme court on the side of who the american people the citizens of this country who are being grievously harmed by uh uh roundup by a very dangerous pesticide no they went in in the opposite direction they told you a supreme court basically

effectively give immunity to this product and kick out state claims. So that's going to be hard to correct. Are you going to get the manufacturers to do proper clinical trials? Very tough, too. You're going to get the medical profession to stop, to put the health of children above their pecuniary interest when it comes to these products? Very difficult, too. So what's the last stop in that train of horribles? The last stop in that train of horribles is the ability to say no. It's the right to say no without any type of penalty, and it's the ability to access information like this show that they tried to censor, so you can get educated

about these products, because you're not gonna get truthful information out of almost all the other sources I just mentioned, right? So that is, those are critical pieces, and in that score, we are pushing the needle in the right direction, because, and to protect those rights, we have to effectively do two things. We have to influence the public,

because the more the public's views on these products change, the more will influence the outcome in legislative houses and in the court system. Courts and the legislature react to what is the cultural cognition, what is the public's views on something. And so we have to get the public to become aware and awake about these products. We cannot stop that.

What you do on the show is critical to that. What everybody who does support this show and the publicity and the information that I can and highway I put out is critical to that first objective. And as we change public cognition, that brings us to the second piece. And the second piece is,

then we have to push in the legislatures and push in the court system to get those changes, take advantage of the change in the public cognition. And obviously, on behalf of ICANN, our firm supported by ICANN, brings those lawsuits to keep pushing the envelope to protect our rights. And then separately, ICANNLORM of ICANNP, pushes and works a lot in that score with state groups to push for legislation that is going to protect rights around the country. And so is it moving the right direction? Yes. Is it like, are we done?

No. Are we ever going to be done? No. The moment you stop, they're going to push back because they got billions of dollars and you know what's a lot cheaper than doing a giant marketing campaign for a new product, the vaccine, getting a mandate. When you're sitting there, they down at the pharma companies, a Pfizer, Sanofi, GSK, and they're trying to say, okay, we got this new product. We can spend $50 million lobbying to get it mandated.

or we could spend a half a billion dollars to market it to the public, which one you think they're going to choose. That's why medical liberty is so important because your body and your kid's body are the commodity on which they make their money, and it's far easier for them to mandate than it is to market, easier, more affordable, I should say, and that is really what drives them.

So things are going the right direction, but, you know, the EPA shows just because Bobby's Secretary of HS doesn't mean he gets to do all the things he wants to do. I have no doubt if Bobby could do everything he wanted to do, you'd be a lot different. There would be no immunity under the PEP Act, for example, right now. I'm sure that would have been lifted if Bobby could do what he wanted to do. And I'll stop there.

There's probably a lot of other things down that list. I don't want to get it. So, you know, to bring a full circle, no, we have not won. We never, quote, unquote, win. We've always got to keep the pressure going at all times. I will say the only time this fight ever ends is when the money, when farmers no longer making money from these products. As long as they're making billions, our fight never stops.

Well, we are certainly happy that you are in there. You are sort of our leading warrior in this fight for the people's rights and the right to choose, which is what this is really about. You're right. We're never going to eradicate pharma. or these products from existence. But we can change public opinion so that more and more people recognize,

you better have the right to choose on these things because they're gonna get crazier and wackier and have even less testing than the last one if we don't say something about it. Aaron, thank you for taking the time. I know you're super busy. I wanna thank you for all the work that you're doing for I can. Congratulations on Joe Rogan.

Congratulations on the success of your book. I just wanna say you can find vaccines, Amen, the book right at our story. if you want to check it out there, you will understand at the level higher than any of your pediatricians for sure. If you understand that book, you will know more than your pediatricians. There's so much in there. Aaron, thank you for your great work. I look forward to seeing you soon.

Thank you. I should also point out that if anybody buys the book on ICANN's website, that becomes a donation to ICANN. All right. Fantastic. Thank you for that donation. I appreciate it. Take care. Well, look, he said with all of those horrible things going on, and we watch it.

We watch Department of Justice lawyers going in and siding with Bear. What is that? It's a pharmaceutical company. We're watching it happen over and over again. We're watching, you know, legislators that are misguided. But at the end of that is one power, your power, your right to choose, which is exactly why we call our nonprofit the informed consent. action network. How important is it for you to continue to have a right to choose in the 45 states

where you have that right, the religious exemption we brought back to Mississippi that got us to 45? We're still fighting those five other states. Fighting in West Virginia right now, I didn't want to get into details because I know Aaron's deep in it. He doesn't like to talk about it in the middle of a case, but we are fighting big time right now in West Virginia to bring back the religious exemption so that you can opt out so that we can whittle this thing down. to four states. And there's others that are popping up that want to take your rights away. 90 cases are being funded by the informed consent action network. We only use one law firm, the most successful law firm, the most successful voice in this entire space.

That is our secret sauce. And you make that possible when you donate to the work that we do. And I just want to point out that if you're going to donate $26 a month is all we're asking for 2026. If you can do more great, if you can only afford a dollar, get involved, feel what it feels like to vote with your dollars. But Highwire, I can, Aaron Series law firm, this is a part of a multi-pronged approach. Where would it be if we only had lawsuits? Because that's how this started. There was no Highwire. Aaron Series started winning lawsuits against the government of the United States. But if you didn't know about it, what would you do? How would we raise donations to continue that work. That's when we realize no one at CBS is going to cover this. No one at Fox is covering this.

No one at CNN. There's no news agency that was covering this. Joe Rogan was against us when we started and almost every other podcaster on the planet. I'm glad they've come around. That's fantastic. They're starting to talk about it. But are they raising funds? Are they hiring lawyers to fight for you? Are they trying to make sure that not only your children get through school, but when your children have children, that they can go to school without being forcibly injected with horrific products as scary as the COVID vaccine, mRNA, DNA manipulating. We've got plasmids and contamination

and all sorts of horror show inside of these things, and we're the only ones fighting for you. So I hope you'll take that seriously and say, you know what? This is more than a new show. This is giving me information when no one else does. It's also fighting for the future of humanity. So please, becoming recurring donor,

we make it easy. You can text us at 7202. Just type in the word donate. If you're listening right now, become a recurring donor. There it is. You can type the word donate, 72022. We take every form of donation you can possibly imagine. You want to donate a car.

Go ahead. Gift cards, legacy giving crypto, international transfer, stock by mail, however you want to do it. I also want to say, you know, when there's things like a rally coming up. You know how amazing it would be to see the advertisement? I would love to see high wire shirts and hats all. over Washington, D.C., standing on the Supreme Court steps, you can go to our high wire store. And before we talk about that, here's something you're going to need coming up in the next

couple minutes. We've got these awesome high wire and I can notebooks for taking notes, all different sizes. This is what I use to take notes for this show. And trust me, in this next conversation we're going to have, you're going to wish you had this right by your side. In fact, why do you get one just so that you can take some notes on the things you want to be looking for? when we're done with the show because obviously, you know, you take notes, you got to remember,

oh, what was the show that had that great piece of information? You can go back to your notebook and say, oh, that's the one. But I also want to remind you that after you take your notes, we hand you all the transcripts. What other news agency in the world does this? You want every transcript, you want to link to every video that we show, every article that we read. Well, that happens usually on Monday after a Thursday show, and the only thing we need from you, is your email. Just scroll down the page and just go to where it says brave, bold news. Type in your email right there and you'll, I think we're getting down there. We go to the highwire.com,

scroll down, brave, bold news. There it is. Go ahead and just type in your email and we will send you all of the information that was used to put together this show, not just the excerpts, not just you know, people say, oh, you're cherry-picking. No, we want you to read the entire study, the entire article. But speak of studies is a very important. important one because one of the biggest conversations happening, both the advisory committee on immunization practices that is getting together. That's the CDC's advisory committee. They're looking at what? They're looking at aluminum. And if you would listen to the pundits and the experts, they want us to believe that we can just gargle aluminum. Just bathe your children in aluminum. Just take showers in aluminum.

Let's just roll an aluminum. Can I get some aluminum sheets on my bed? At least that's what it sounds like when I Listen to this craziness. The White House is shaking up the vaccine world again, this time over aluminum. The nation's health secretary says that the ingredient causes chronic health problems and children and is now asking a CDC committee to look at those claims. But many experts say there's no new science driving this review. Every major health agency from the CDC to the World Health Organization says aluminum is saved. Aluminum salts are ingredients added to some vaccines to help the immune system respond more

strongly. We've been using as you know, ashenants like aluminum, aluminum salts and vaccines really since the 1940s. And we know that they're benign. Aluminum is present in most of our food and drinks and has never been found to be of any harm to babies or adults. They have no long-term or short-term consequences to children. But I just want to emphasize, this is really a matter of settled science and the safety and importance of vaccines and protecting all of us, especially at this time of year. You know, we keep reporting on how the confidence in our medical establishment and our regulatory agencies is just plummeting. And I watched that news piece and just think, does anyone out in the world actually believe that? Oh, yeah, no.

Just inject as many gallons of aluminum into your babies. And we've seen no effect whatsoever. Forget that you've been trying to keep this out of your deodorants for like decades. And all the other reasons we know aluminum is dangerous. But it's perfectly healthy. In fact, it's good for you to inject it. I mean, I think that that news piece shows just how far off the reservation science has been. But to bring it back on the reservation and bring it back to a reality,

there's a huge news study that's just come out. And I'm joined now by two of the authors, Dr. James Nguyen Schwander and Dr. Brian Hooker. Brian, this is your first time on set here? This is the first time on set, though. This is absolutely perfect. For anyone that does not know this, if you've been watching this show, Brian Hooker is the reason I'm in all the trouble that I find myself in. He destroyed my television career.

He absolutely, you know, I got involved in this crazy story of a whistleblower inside the CDC. You're the one that recorded those phone calls. You're the heart of that story with Vax. And so, of course, the film Vax changed my life forever. So thank you. You are so welcome. We couldn't be happier or prouder to have you as just such a mouthpiece and a luminary in this movement. And so thank you. I mean, you took the bits and pieces of that story, you, Andy, and Polly, and you really made it sing. I've never seen anything like it. Yeah, it really, it was a world changer. It was a great team to put together.

So it's been an interesting journey for me since I started this journey with MMR vaccine. That really is this live virus vaccine in MMR doesn't have mercury or aluminum. And Robert Kennedy Jr. when we came on to the, you know, when Vax sort of broke out, he was very heavily the World Mercury Project. His focus was mercury. There was no mercury in the MMR vaccine. No, you can't put a toxic heavy metal in with a live virus. And so MMR is live measles, mumps, and Rubella. And so if you put in aluminum salts or thamarasol in there, then it would denature.

It would actually kill the virus. But it all seems to be coming full circle. We've got Robert Kennedy Jr. sitting at HHS Secretary, an absolute miracle. He has removed thimerosol officially forever from the vaccine program and whatever limited amounts was still there. But aluminum, I would say that that was really the deeper I got in the investigation. after vaxed and saying, look, you know, I started informed consent to action network. We wanted to study every vaccine on the childhood schedule and just kept seeing this load of aluminum increasing, you know, starting with the very first vaccine, hepatitis B.

So tell me about your study. Was it was aluminum the focus or was it just something that popped up in the middle of this study? In fact, let me start with the world's longest title. This is their study right here. Aluminum adjuvants, autoimmunity, and autism spectrum disorder, a comprehensive mechanistic, neuropathological, and legal analysis. There you have quite a mouthful. I don't know if we even need to talk about this study. You got a shorter version of that?

Well, part of the problem here, Della, is I'm writing with a bunch of other folks, and a lot of them have PhD after their name, which I do not. So my alternative title was actually, yes, Virginia vaccines can cause autism, but that got voted down by the PhDs. So we got stuck with this. Okay. What was this study? What was the methodology? We were looking to see, you know, is there a mechanistic link between vaccines and autism?

Right. Because you know, just how do we get there? And it starts with the two ends of that question. So one end is, what is autism, right? I mean, autism is defined by a set of symptoms, but it doesn't tell you what the biochemistry of autism is. So the first time I was ever on this show was talking about a study where it was an autopsy study, 63, 64 percent of all the brains they evaluated in that study showed evidence of encephalitis, and this was actually autoimmune encephalitis.

So we're looking at the majority of kids on the spectrum have evidence of brain injury from an autoimmune inflammatory process. So what's the difference between an encephalitis and an autoimmune encephalitis? Is it where it affects the brain? How would you know? Yeah, there are different ways to develop encephalitis. You know, most of us think of encephalitis as a result of an infection. So I get a, you know, I get a mosquito bite and I get equine encephalitis late in the summer, at least in Michigan. That's when it happens.

But, you know, you get inflammation of the brain. So encephalitis, that term just means inflammation of the brain. And there's causes for it. But one of the big causes are these viruses. And we know viral encephalitis at a certain age is associated with an increased risk of autism. It's, you know, about 40% increased risk if you have. So that is known in the literature. Yes, that's not absolutely.

You can get an infection from a disease that will cause an encephalitis, and then the result is a symptom called autism. Right. At the right time of brain development, and that's the key part. I mean, if you develop equine and suffolitis... That's not... Just be clear, no one is refuting that. Paul Opp, it's not going to say that's crazy. I don't know what Paul Off is going to say, but I don't think so.

I think it would be very hard to come out and say that because we know that happens. But it's at a certain... I mean, again, at my age, if I develop equineencephalitis, I'm not going to develop autism, right? I mean, that ship has already sailed. You have to have it at a critical part of brain development. So if you look at kids under two, and there's... you know, certain viruses are worse than others, like the herpes viruses are really bad when it comes to creating this type of situation. But you have increased, about 40% increased risk of

developing autism if you have that type of viral encephalitis. So we already have a historic infectious basis for the encephalitis. What we're talking about here, and what we talked about the first time I was ever on your show, was this idea that it's autoimmune. So the immune system creates these lymphocytes that actually attack parts of the brain and destroys these neurons, creates injury that will develop into autism. That's what that study had said, all right? So we have that as one end of the spectrum. And then the other end is, how do aluminum adjuvants work?

We've been using them for almost 100 years, some of them over 100 years, right? And I'm not the aluminum expert. This guy knows a lot about it. But, you know, what I know is that aluminum adjuvants are added to vaccines to increase the immune reaction. Because without it, none of these vaccines would work. Okay. How does it do that? You know, so that was never really something that was well delineated up until maybe the last 15, 20 years.

And now we have... So they were literally just using this stuff, putting it in there and saying, oh, look, it makes the body react stronger, create more antibodies. magnifies the immune response, you know, wherever. But they didn't really know why. They just sort of pocus, pocus, magic, injects some aluminum in there, and this whole thing just works better. Right, right.

They saw that the inflammatory processes were, you know, were created. And within that, you know, the body is not, you don't have organs that selectively inflame. When inflammation occurs in the body, then the entire body inflames, including neuroinflammation. And so when that happens, they neglected the neuroinflammation part. They just looked at the inflammatory cells then that would hasten the immune response and magnify the immune response of whatever was in that aluminum field, whether it was hepatitis B, homophilus influenza B or whatever. So that is all they were really concerned about.

And when you look back at the studies that were supposed to establish that, yeah, this was safe and effective. They did a fine job with effective, but they really, really screwed up with safe. You just said something. I just want to clarify, because I keep thinking about, you know, and I've said it, that I think autism appears to be an inability to detoxify, you know, while you're going through an inflammatory event. And I always see it like a thermometer, almost like a Bugs Bunny cartoon, where, you know, the inflammation's in the body, but if it gets to the brain, then you're really screwed.

is that you kind of just said where if there's inflammation in the body there is inflammation the brain are they happening simultaneously is that sort of a dumb way to think of it that it has to cross some blood brain barrier or well there are plenty of inflammatory cytokines you know small protein molecules that cross the blood brain barrier regularly and so they're going to hasten inflammatory processes you know it used to be thought many many years ago when when I was in college and graduate school, that the brain was somehow immunologically privileged, that it didn't undergo these things.

It was somehow with a blood brain barrier shut off. That has been completely thrown out, and we know that neuro inflammation is, you know, it is real, you can count on it, and when the body is going through an inflammatory process, then neuroinflammation can and does happen. Okay, and so now let's get back to, you know, aluminum is inciting this this inflammatory event I've been I've said it when you

look at vaccine inserts you know all I don't know if it's everyone but it's damn near almost everyone says encephalitis encephalopathy some form of brain swelling is a known serious adverse side effect written right on the label which makes sense if it's causing inflammatory event certainly it could inflame the brain and now that it has inflamed the brain then it can lead to all sorts of neurological disorders. You've had a brain injury. I just, I'm shocked. I mean, I know we're going to get into details. I'm shocked we need details. Like, I really am. When I watch Paul Offit and say, we've been using it. We know that it's safe. And the fact that a vaccine could

cause autism is just absurd. How is it absurd? It causes, if it can cause brain swelling, everything after that, then can't that lead to seizures? Can't that lead to ticks? Can't that lead to all all these things that are, as you said, descriptions of being on the autism spectrum. How is it? There's just no way these two things come together. Well, you really, you know, in medicine, you really have to have that mechanistic pathway. How do we get from here to here? Right. With the vaccines.

So, I mean, that was the other part of the paper. So define what autism is. You know, it's autoimmune encephalitis for the majority. and we have certain things like elevation of what he was talking about, these cytokines. These are things that induce inflammation. They're involved with the immune response. And those are small molecules. They easily transport around.

So we know, for example, in autism, you have elevation of something called interleukin 1 beta. That's one of these inflammatory cytokin. One beta. Okay. And, you know, what that does, the interleukin 1 beta will set off a serious. of events that ultimately will rev up that whole immune system. So it will bring in T cells, it'll activate them, it'll cause local inflammation.

But that's one thing we know. We know that kids on the spectrum have elevated levels of multiple cytokines in their spinal fluid, in their blood, yes, but also in their spinal fluid. So we know what happens. They have activated what are called microglia, so the brain doesn't specifically have white blood cells unless they cross the blood-brain-berry to get there. But the brain has these specialized support cells called microglia, and they act like immune cells in the brain.

They're involved with the inflammatory process, and we know those are activated in a lot of kids on the spectrum. So when you say activated on the spectrum, does that mean at any time in their life you can go and test them, and they have these heightened, or is it right after a vaccine? They're higher than normal regular. When we're talking brain studies, those are post-mortem. So these are people that died, that had autism, died from something.

So lived with autism and then we just go and look at their brains and we see that these interlaken beta higher. Right. Yeah. And then we also had spinal tap studies. So we got spinal fluid from kids mainly with autism. And they were able to evaluate that for the presence of these cytokines. And they were present there as well. So we know we have these inflammatory cytokines.

And now we go back to aluminum and say, okay, what is it about these aluminum vaccines? could that in some way create this problem? And that was the other end of the paper. And our whole approach to this process is, all right, we're going to define autism biochemically, not based on symptoms, but biochemically, as a majority have autoimmune encephalitis, majority have elevation of certain inflammatory cytokines,

including big one in a lupin-1 beta, but a lot of other things are off. And then over here, what is it about these aluminum adjuvents that could somehow create this, all right? And again, we've used them forever without really understanding the mechanism, which is why it's easy to say there's no way that could cause this. How on earth could this shot cause autism?

It makes no sense. Well, if you take somebody down that primrose path, then all of a sudden, yes, it makes a lot of sense. Because it turns out that the aluminum vaccines, unlike any aluminum in food or in baby formula or whatever, these are nanoparticles. They are not cleared like that, all right? No, no, so. You're not eating a piece of aluminum oil. These are like- No, no, no. If I drink aluminum, yeah. My kidneys will clear, it'll be gone in 24 hours. I mean, you know, it's cleared very rapidly. When I inject aluminum, A, it sits in the muscle for a while, right? This was the old theory.

It just sits in the muscle and creates a local immune response and you develop systemic antibodies based on that local immune response. Please don't vomit. Okay. But it's we know that these things get that they stay there for a long time, but more importantly, they get taken up by white blood cells, whose job it is to ingest these things. I mean, that's what they do. They clean house, and when they ingest these things, that's when the trouble starts.

That's moving around the body. Yeah, because they can take that aluminum from the thigh and traffic it up to the brain. Wow. All right? So if I, because again, in my practice, most people when they talk about, you know, their child regressing after a vaccine, these days it's not so much MMR. You know, it's other vaccines. And a lot of them are regressing by the time they're six months old. Wow. You know, it's early, right? So they're not getting MMR at six months. You know, that's usually 12 to 15 months.

And so it's those earlier vaccines that either prime them and then maybe MMR puts them over the edge or those are a, vaccines are already creating the process. Once you have these white blood cells that are full of aluminum nanoparticles and you traffic those to the brain, then, you know, trouble ensues. You're going to have a lot of problems with that because of what the nanoparticle form does, right? Right, right. When you look at that, the way that, and it has been established that aluminum in the brain is higher in autistic subjects than compared to normal controls.

was a study that came out in 2018 by Christopher Exley. He was the primary investigator on the study. But it was the mold at all study that came out in 2018. And it showed that from cadavers that autistic adults had five to ten times more aluminum trapped in their brains as compared to non-autistic controls. And so we know that it's there. When it gets there, it will interact with. with a cell component called mitochondria.

Mitochondria are very, very sensitive to things like depolarization. And so you have this ionic form of lumen, has a charge, it has very, very strong intense charge, it's plus three, which is very, very strong for a heavy metal. You can go plus four and that's about it after that, but plus three is very, very strong. It will tear apart the mitochondrial membrane.

That mitochondrial membrane then, when it's ingest, ingested and basically the cells are being damaged, then that hastens another part of the immune system that will start to ingest these damaged cells. So you get almost this cascade of the aluminum getting to the brain. It disrupts the mitochondria. The body reacts with what are called damage-associated molecular patterns that hastens the immune system to come and clear out the gum, clear out the damage, but at the same time, it's affecting, and it is directly damaging the brain. Because that immune system, when it's involved, is an inflammatory event, correct? So it's under attack, you have mitochondria, the charge is getting messed up, you've got this,

you know, electronic circuitry getting messed with. The immune system is jumping in to try and help, causing, I'm assuming, more inflammation on some level. Correct. Correct. Go ahead. No, I mean, you always have to remember, we don't have these symptoms, we don't have these systems built into our bodies so that we can all develop autism or heart attacks or encephalitis,

right? Those systems are there to clear viruses, to repair damage, to clear infections. That's what these molecular patterns were originally developed for, right? I mean, they weren't developed for aluminum nanopartels. They weren't developed for... We weren't working and walking around the planet getting injected with aluminum. Right. Correct. Our bodies weren't like, oh, I've got a solution for this. And it's, you know, again, it's a fairly new occurrence to the human experience is getting injected with foreign toxins. And it's not just, it's not just aluminum. There's all kinds of other nanoparticles. I mean, we learned with the COVID vaccines that we have lipid nanoparticles. They do the same thing. Plastic nanoparticles do the same thing. I mean, you know, he's born in 1960. We had plastic, but not really.

I mean, nobody had a water bottle ever, right? So all that stuff is recent. So we have this system was beautifully designed to deal with infections and injury and that sort of stuff. And it's being co-opted by these nanoparticles. And part of the issue is you get these lipid nanoparticles. They're ingested by the white blood cells, right? And inside the white blood cells, they destabilize, not just the mitochondria. They destabilize something called a lysosome. Another, you should check out cells. They're pretty cool.

Yeah. I can tell you guys geeking out. I know. I love it. I mean, lysosomes are, you know, you make like fatty acids in lysosomes. You know, they have function, but these lysosomes will leak compounds. And these compounds will set off this thing called NLRP3, which is a danger pattern. It's supposed to recognize these molecular patterns that say there's a problem out there.

So we call them danger associated molecular patterns, damps, pathogen associated molecular patterns, pamps, and there's all kinds of AMPs, right? Depends on what the first letter is. But that's what NLRP3 recognizes. When it recognizes that. NLRP3. Okay, all right, got this. N-L-R-P-3 is what's called an inflammatoryome. By the way, I told you all to be using your notebooks right now. I told you you need notebooks during this segment.

I warned you. It will be a quiz. Yes, there'll be a quiz. So N-L-R-P-3 is, and I'm not going to go into the acronym, oh my goodness, I don't think I remember it, but an inflamazome is a protein complex. It's a complex of just proteins that are produced, you know, through transcription translation. They come together and they mediate, they initiate and they mediate inflammation. And so when these damage-associated molecular patterns, these pathogen-associated molecular

patterns, then are created basically from mitochondria, blowing up, from lysosomes, releasing compounds that are basically suicide molecules for the cell or a suicide yeah there's a there's a molecule called caspace one that basically if a cell is damaged they're like we got to get it out of here so they they release this this enzyme caspace one so the whole point of immune system is to kill cells that are they're infected get it out of here kill it right you know attack it natural killer cell like an entire immune system innate systems throughout the body depending where it's happening is just kill that cell it's poison and get it out of here It's contaminated.

Right. Okay. Longer it sticks around, then the longer that hastens a response. But what happens is that the inflammazone, as these nanoparticles are sloughing off more and more aluminum salts, aluminum phosphate, aluminum phosphate, there's even one called aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate because scientists love long names. But as this is sloughing off, then it's a continuous process. continually feeding it, you continually get damage inside the cells, then cells are

getting this suicide signal, then the NLRP3 inflammation steps up, and then it communicates that inflammation to the rest of the body. It communicates the whole thing, and it does absolutely end up in the brain. Wow. And when it happens there, you know, the NLRP3 activation gets the Caspas 1 level elevated. That's not you know cell signaling that's not the normal cell death signal right that's a different one that's Caspace 3 but Caspace 1 has a different mode of cell death so you know apoptosis is what the term we use for organized cell death that is gentle kind kinder way to get rid of a cell it just sort of self

digest it doesn't explode it doesn't cause inflammation but with with the NLRP 3 type activation under the right circumstances it creates a process called necropytosis, pyropotosis. So pyropotosis is a different mechanism of cell death. And in that mechanism, like Brian was talking about with the mitochondria, the cell membrane itself gets porous and stuff comes into the cell. The cell basically explodes, and that's going to create a lot of local inflammation. Plus, guess what's released with NLRP3 activation and Caspase 1? We talked about it earlier, interleukin 1 beta. All right. So, so, so, so So there's a direct link, and then all the local inflammation,

not that Caspace 1 directly is going to activate these T lymphocytes that we found on the autoimmune encephalitis paper, but it's going to create that local inflammation. Rising tide raises all ships. It's going to increase the inflammation. You're going to have much more activation of those types of white blood cells. And again, the paper on the autoimmune encephalitis

very specifically. talked about CD8 cytotoxic T cells and the fact that there was high levels of something called Granzyme, which is enzyme released by those cells that is punctured into cells and blows a cell up, just digest the cell from inside out. And again, why would you do that? Because normally the danger signal is, help me, I'm full of nasty viruses that are going to kill you. Let's do something about it. And the cytotoxic T cell says, gotcha, buddy, been good to know you.

This is the guy that stays behind, takes on all the aliens and says run for your lives, get the healthy cells out of here. Right, right, right, right. I got this, pulls the grenade, blows himself up. That's exactly what. Saves the day. Yeah, saves the day. So is there any good, I mean, this all sounds really bad. NRP3s have benefits to the brains.

Is there anything that these things do that, you know, when it's for the right reasons, it's got a good outcome? Inflammation is there in order to clean out the gunk, in order to get rid of cell debris, and do, you know, sort of the attack against the viruses. So in an infection situation, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But when you're bombarding the body over and over again at birth, at two months, at four months, at six months, you know, over a milligram of aluminum at two. months, four months, and six months when you look at the cumulative exposure. And then at 12 months, 15 months and 18 months, all these are critical neurological periods. And so, you know, the body really cannot keep up. And I think that's one of the reasons why Dr. New is seeing autism earlier.

You know, kids are regressing earlier. When my son regressed, there were not that many vaccines at two months or four months and six months. Now they're loading them up with six or seven needle sticks per visit. Right. Never been tested, by the way, doing it always at one time. I mean, the other key part of NLRP3, because like I said, you know, we don't have cholesterol so it can all have heart attacks. We don't have NLRP3 so we can all get encephalitis, right? So the key thing with NLRP3 in terms of brain development, and this is back to that question, if I get encephalitis when I'm 65 versus when I'm one, is there, you know, what's the risk of

autism is going to be much higher at age one, right? I'm not going to do it at 65. NLRP3 activation is involved with this process called synaptic pruning, all right? So the way the brain develops is you're going to have these neurons and these neurons are just going to throw out a whole bunch of connections. They're going to connect whatever they're going to be everywhere. Reaching out. They're going to be all information. Yeah. And then what you have to do is you have to start trimming back the things you're not using. All right. You know, I always use hearing. as an example. Like if we're sitting in a room and we actually heard every noise in the room, we would never be able to concentrate on anything. So we have the ability to block out some of

those noises. That's sort of pruning the auditory input. So the needed information and get rid of all the- Right, right. So we stick with the pathways that are important and we prune the ones that we don't need, right? So the most important window of synaptic pruning is in that three months to 18 months window. When we're, again, we're bombarding these kids you know they're they get that NLRP is what is part of that synaptic pruning like right actually no vaccines involved right it's in there pruning yeah we use that process that's one of the processes we use to create synaptic printing all right because again how are you gonna take away

connections you've got to get rid of the extensions of the neuron you know we call dendrites we have to get rid of those so how are you gonna get rid of that will you have to have controlled destruction of tissue, all right? You don't want the thing blowing up, but you just say, well, no, let's get rid of this little tendril over here, let's get rid of this thread over here, and by doing that, you're doing it in a control. So the same time this is happening in the brain and this new infant,

we're injecting a product that is now inciting more NLRP3. What? Like adding at the time where it's going through this very delicate pruning process, hey let's just flood the brain with even more of this. Is it a chemical? What would be the word to call it? It's a little bit... I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, no. NLRP3. NLRP3 is just a complex of many, many individual proteins that come together and then control and steer that process. But when you disregulate that process, then some dendrites don't get prunes, others get overpruned. There are areas of it. of overpruning and underpruning.

Generally, under pruning leads to massive, massive connectivity. And then you get children like my son who does hear and does pick up and does process every noise that he hears in the room. This is why we see the kids in grocery stores and things that have to wear the earphones around. They can't block out. They're just hearing every sound.

Almost super, they're like superheroes. Like Superman must go crazy actually hearing everything through walls. And we just never got into that part of of the issue, interesting. No, again, it's, I don't know, it's human hubris that we think we can come up with a product that we're going to inject that doesn't have side effects. I mean, I don't think any person who, a vaccinologist, a virologist, whoever they are,

is going to say, yeah, there's this one thing that doesn't cause any side effects. I think everybody recognizes that. It's just they live in this world of delusion where the side effects are locally or irritation, local inflammation, and maybe one in a million bouts of... But that would have been fine 100 years ago. I mean, that's where I'm with Paul Off at all these people. You're wearing blinders now. We are, as...

So all you really did is you just said, let's take everything we know about aluminum, aluminum agitemines. What are they inciting? What is it known to do in the body? Let's go over here and look at what is really defining characteristics of autism on a molecular and chemical level, not just the... symptoms we see, but what we know is happening inside of the brain when we do it, brain scans, brain studies, all of this. And so you said, we know that we're having an immune activation

inflammatory event. We've seen that in 65% of the brains. We know that NLRP3 is what prunes the brain at this very fragile, super important time in the baby's life. And we know aluminum is inciting that and increasing that process. and this has every ability to dysregulated if you go in and jump in and start munking around at this very critical time. So could we say that so are you saying this paper proves that aluminum causes autism? We went through a series of nine steps called the Bradford Hill Criteria and that's where the paper ended. You know that that was the and and we want to make it crystal clear that from a legal causation basis. Is this sort of like coax postulates? Well, it's

replaced coaxiolists. Okay. Because postulates really don't apply to a lot of things that are current. But it's a way to test the hypothesis all the way out. If this, yes, then this, then yes, then yes. Does this cause this? Okay, right, right. And nine, nine different steps. And in each one of these validation steps, then we could show that aluminum was linked. to autism. You know, some of them involve epidemiology, some of involve biochemistry, some involve reproducibility, some of involve similarity with animal models and things like that. And so, you step through all of these criteria. It was developed by a gentleman by the name of Sir Bradford Hill in 1965. And that has been the gold standard that, like the Institute of Medicine, now the

National Academy of Medicine, has used in order to rank causation between vaccines and vaccine adverse events. So we went, you know, we went to basically what the National Academies considers the Bible or what's the proof in the pudding. And that was the Bradford Hill criteria. Wow. And that, yeah, and that that's really the icing on the cake. So it's not just a bunch of, you know, terms and cellular mechanisms and everything, but to just to show that, yes, there are circumstances. And again, we didn't really talk about the susceptibility, but, you know, we talked about the genetic susceptibility as well, that a lot of these kids, they don't clear aluminum very well,

they don't detox very well. You know, there are certain genes associated with autism that are also, they have more inflammation. The healthy kid is gonna be clearing that aluminum out of the body faster. Or not healthy, a kid that's not as prone to autism. Correct. Right, right.

And, you know, these things are changing over time. But you know, Brian, we should have had him be an author. We could have shaved about 32 pages off our article. No kidding. We really all we needed was a title and a figure. We'd been absolutely fine. Brian, when we were talking to phone before you came on with this, and you've done some very, very important work in this space.

Maybe the most prolific scientist with all the studies. You've written books with Robert Kennedy Jr. Vax versus unvaxxed. You've analyzed so many studies around the world that maybe weren't even looking at that, but he said, look, you have a Vax versus Unvaxed Cowhert. You didn't even know it. What do we find there? incredible work, but you said to me on the phone, I think this may be the most important study or work that I've ever done in my life. Why are you saying that? Because this captures

the essence of what is going on with these children. You know, we are in an era where the toxic load is getting higher and higher and higher and higher and higher and higher. And then the genetic susceptibility, the bar for genetic susceptibility, but my son was diagnosed with autism in 2000 was much, much higher. He had, you know, we looked at genetically, you know, it was very, very difficult for him not to have autism. But now once that toxic load then increases and then you get, you know, then less and less genetic susceptibility comes into play, then you get an epidemic. And to me, looking at this, and we used AI a lot for this particular paper, don't worry, we didn't use AI to write the paper and we checked all the references. But we did ingest about 700 articles. And what came out of that and what then we found was the biggest problem that we felt with the vaccination schedule, not all the problems with the vaccination schedule, but the biggest problem,

currently to date, if you are a child participating in the vaccination schedule, would be the aluminum adjuvant. And to me, that was really enlightening. It's almost like the people that have been making these vaccines could have predicted it. This is Paul off for just a few weeks ago. Let's take a look at this. If you alter the vaccine injury compensation program and make no doubt about the fact that that is Robert F. Kennedy Jr's interest, he's already hired a law firm out of Arizona that has an expertise in the vaccine injury compensation program with a goal towards altering it. And what I predict is going to happen. And so I'm going to make something you should never do on on any sort of podcast. I'm going to make a prediction. Here's my prediction.

And probably by no later than early next year, maybe the spring of next year, you are going to see Robert F. Kennedy Jr. holding up some paper that he's going to publish in a journal that is a fringe journal. I'll put that nicely. The journal that he uses called Science, Public Health, and the law, which can publish, which has an editorial board that consists solely of anti-vaccine activists. So he's going to publish this paper that says that aluminum adjuvants in vaccines are causing harm. Now aluminum adjuvants are in seven different vaccines given to young children, not like thimerosol, where you can just go from multi-dose to single-dose while. There's no taking aluminum adjuvants out of vaccines.

There are certain vaccines that just need adjuvants to get a better immune response. What he's then going to do is he's going to say, see, it's causing autism, asthma, eczema, whatever. And he's going to either add that to the vaccine injury compensation program, which will break that program, or he will take vaccines out of the vaccine injury compensation program and say, I don't think they should get the protection of that program. Let's leave them open to the slings and arrows of outrageous civil litigation. It's uncanny the way he was able to pull aluminum out of the ethers as the paper that would come forward. Now, of course, Bobby didn't put this paper out you guys are but there's several things wrong with what he does first of

all if there is an issue if you have half a brain it's going to be aluminum if you look at the studies that have not been done though and we I've come this is probably the the body of work that I can't represents is just the ocean of studies that were not done not the mountain of studies that they say were done it's the absolute like the opposite you know no studies done really looking this you're finally looking at it but when he says a that would be the end of the vaccine program. To me, you see a horrifying bias in that statement,

meaning we can never land on aluminum being a problem because it is in too many of our vaccines. And if we had to replace that element, then the entire program would come crashing down. So I don't know if that makes people feel like comfortable, but what I see is that means everyone that has ever supported this product will go out of the way to make sure we never ever come to the conclusion that a problem or that conclusion means this whole vaccine program is a problem. Am I hearing that

wrong? I mean, I think you have to look at it a few different ways. I mean, the whole assumption of this is that vaccines are the only answer, right? And so we all know that there are many other things we can do to help control disease, right? It's not the Center for Disease Control and Prevention. it's the center for vaccines. I mean, that's what the CDC has become. They don't look at any other way to control outbreaks, any other things that can do for the population to lessen morbidity and mortality of these diseases, right?

And a lot of us are very concerned that, you know, if measles broke out today, given where we're at, it probably would be a problem. You know, I agree with that. It's not necessarily the benign disease it was when I was a kid and had it because we have all this other stuff in the environment. So that's one of the big things there. But the second thing is, if you take aluminum out, what are you putting in?

Because regardless of what you put in, all the adjuvants they have still have this a similar mechanism. In sight and information, which is how you get the immune system to go. So, you know, it always drives me nuts when we have a, you know, a study, like the aluminum and asthma study, right? So they do this study. Yeah, it came out positive. Yeah, it came out positive.

So what do they do? They run to Denmark and say, let's do a study in Denmark. Well, guess what? Dude, you know, do they give hepatitis B in Denmark? No. When do they give the first vaccine in Denmark? At one day old, at two months old? No, three months.

Is it early? Three months? Six months. So by six months, they've had two sets of vaccines. So how much synaptic pruning got to happen in Denmark before we messed with it? Bingo. Exactly right. So if you're going to run to Denmark, then do Denmark's vaccine schedule, right?

You don't have the issues, and you covered this, you don't have the issues in Denmark with the vaccine schedule that we have here. It's not mandatory. You can vaccinate or non-vaccinate, right? Most people choose to, but you don't have all this friction and all the issues we have in the United States where you can't even say, well, maybe you should study that. You heretic, we've been using these for over 100 years. They've been proven to be safe and effective. Why? Well, we've been using them and everybody's okay.

Really? Have you looked at the health of our children? Right? I mean, I'm the president of the Medical Academy of Pediatrics and Special Needs. That's all we do. You know, we have a conference coming up. It's completely sold out because the need to have practitioners. Let's talk about that.

We've got the MAPS conference coming up really quick right here. There it is. Certainly, if you're a doctor, I think you, You miss that's pretty much packed out there, which is exciting news that the work you're doing, so many doctors I want to learn about this to start looking at special needs and how that's, you know, being affected pediatric. But there's also parents program there? Yeah.

So for the first time, we're doing a parent conference as well, you know, because, you know, to me, what's going to change medicine are the parents. You know, the parents demanding things from the doctors that would change things overnight, right? Doctors are just going to do what we're told or what the parents want. us to do but if the parents are on board with what we're talking about that would change everything you know we need you know what would it be like to have 60 million Brian Hookers walking into your office all right you know you're gonna change your mind about vaccines because he's gonna educate you about

you educate you about it right so the parent conferences is the first time we're doing it there are still spaces available for that I believe we have a discount code for people HW 20 to get 20% off the admission for that but it's the first time we're doing it but again it's going to be the same sort of science-based presentation that we do for the doctors just not quite as dense and you know and I won't be there to make it make sense what are we going to do what are we going to do no I mean the beautiful thing about the doctor part of it and it's just it's the demand part I mean this is not the first conference we've sold out we've just sold it out earlier than our previous two all right so we've sold out the last

three conferences we keep increasing space which can be a problem because we have to find hotels big enough to have space for us. We're not quite to the convention center size yet. And it just tells you that there's a demand out there that people like the American Academy and pediatricists are not meeting that demand. Right. They're not meeting that domain. I mean, the fact that they be against the Denmark study, I find this hilarious. They'll all point to the Denmark study. Well, look at the Denmark study. They didn't see audits. It's like, well, but then why do you have a problem going with the Denmark vaccine program? Right. You can't have it both ways. Brian, I want to ask you just as a sort of final question because, you know,

I know Dr. New works with these children, but as you're doing work like this, it's so personal for you, you know, your son's a huge part of your life, his regression into autism probably changed your career trajectory forever. But as you, it's almost like, you know, Raiders of the Lost Arc, you're unpacking these details

in a study like this. Is there this moment that what you finally discover is really the core of this horrific event in your own family. What is that like as you sort of come in on, you know, understanding this more and more as you reflect on the moment it happened with your own son? We do not want anyone to go through what these families have gone through and what my family went through personally. You know, I remember getting my first result back from when they did a hair medals test for my son. His, his, he didn't.

not have a first baby haircut. His first baby haircut was a hair metals test. And so it was it was really poignant. It was really, really difficult because we were trimming his hair in order to send the trimmings in. And when it came back, it showed that he was so mercury toxic that his hair would be considered a hazardous waste. And so he was detoxifying that mercury. Fortunately, you know, that's how that hair, skin nails is how mercury is detoxed urine feces. But it's such a poignant moment that I lived through. And I remember getting those results, you know, actually getting the paper results from the doctor's office,

and just crumpling down in the bathroom floor and just sobbing. Because we knew at that point that it was you cannot un-autism a kid. You cannot unvaccinate your child. You just cannot. Once that vaccine is in, it's going to do frank damage. And frankly, with the vaccine schedule today, you know, prior to Secretary Kennedy, no one gets a pass. There's damage that is done to every single child, whether you know it, whether you recognize it or not. And so if we can prevent that, we can prevent that happening. That's a good day. It really is. What incredible work you both are doing. It's just in honor to know you. I want to thank you for a very taking the time to join us today. If you'll stick around for off the record, Brian, I understand you got yourself in trouble. You got written up in The Guardian for catching measles. He came down to Texas and the measles outbreak and actually was running around with measles. Is that right?

I had the measles. I wasn't running around. I did. Hold that thought. We're going to talk about it off the record. I want to thank you both for joining us. Look, if you want to see what the MAPS program is all about and this conference that's coming up and all the great work that these doctors and scientists are doing in pediatrics around special needs. The special needs is skyrocketing, unfortunately, around this planet. So odds are it affects you or someone near you. Take a look at this. If you are a parent or caregiver of a child with autism or other chronic health conditions

and you want to take a deep dive into the root causes of these conditions, as well as effective therapies to improve the health. behavior and development of your child, you will definitely want to consider attending or tuning in virtually to the first ever parent forum at the upcoming MAPS conference. That's the Medical Academy for Pediatric Special Needs, and it's taking place in Charlotte, North Carolina on March 15th. Registration link is below. My name is Warren McDonnell, and I've been a pediatric nurse for over 40 years, and MAPS is absolutely the best children's health conference I've ever attended. At this upcoming, coming one and a half day parent forum, you'll find world-renowned physicians discussing research-based

approaches for helping children achieve their maximum level of health and well-being. I hope to see you there. Well, tap yourself on the back for being the most intelligence news audience out there. I'm sure we're taking notes. What an incredible dive we just did. But, you know, the long and the short of it, sometimes I even think of going, I'm not sure if I understand all this, but one thing's clear. You two, dudes are brilliant and you're obviously on to something. You're connecting the science together. I mean, I know we get the gist of most of that. But to be finding the mechanism now, we are getting really close to this entire lie crashing down forever for good. Once people get it, once you start introducing to everyone you know to the high wire so that they're ready with

their little notebooks, which I know you're going to buy at the store. But once everyone's taking notes and we're all able to talk about this stuff, then we don't have to worry about politics anymore. There's too many people that are in the know. There's too many people asking important questions of their doctor. And then there's too many people in government that will be saying, you know what, bureaucrats shouldn't be making these decisions for you. This is your decision to make. You can educate yourself. You should be educated. You should be having an intelligent conversation with your doctor. It's one of my favorite parts of really this Senate hearing over the latest introduction to the, or potential introduction to the newest

team member at the health department. I'm talking about Casey Meese. Look what she had to say when getting grilled by the Senate. We've had two children die from measles in West Texas. We've now have an outbreak of like a thousand children almost in South Carolina. area. You're a mom. We're on verge. We're on the verge of losing our measles elimination status. Would you encourage other mothers to have their children vaccinated against measles with the MMR vaccine? Like you, I'm a physician. I believe vaccine saved lives. I believe that vaccines are a key part of any infectious disease public health strategy. And I would work with you, the CDC, then IH ASIP.

Would you encourage mothers to vaccinate their children with the MMR vaccine, seeing how we've had children die and this outbreak in South Carolina? I'm supportive of a vaccination. I do believe that each patient, mother, parent needs to have a conversation with their pediatrician about any medication they're putting in their body and their children's bodies. You're the nation's doctor. Would you encourage her to have her child vaccinated? I'm not an individual's doctor and every individual needs to talk to their doctor before putting a medication in their body. I absolutely in support of the measles vaccine, and I do believe

vaccines save lives and are important part of the public health strategy. We've had a tough flu season this year. Would you, as past surgeon generals have, encourage Americans to get vaccinated with the flu vaccine? At the risk of sounding repetitive, I do think it's very important as a physician and to rebuild trust in public health to make sure that patients are encouraged. to have informed consent with their doctor before getting any medication. I believe vaccine save lives. I believe they're an important part of public health. I also do not want to not encourage patients to have a conversation with their doctor.

I think it's incredibly important. And informed consent is going to be part of building trust in public health. Well, you know, when these moments happen, I've had a lot of reporters reach out to me and see what I think. And they'll point out the fact that obviously Cassidy, who was really just. Bobby Kennedy barely got past Senator Cassidy in order to be HHS secretary. It's a heck of a gauntlet sitting in that space trying to answer questions.

Honestly, I think, you know, I think Casey means I know her to be an honest person. So is Robert Kennedy Jr. But I, you know, maybe I have a little bit of a bias since this is the informed consent to action network that we work for. This is an educational program for the nonprofit informed consent action network that I founded all the way back in 2016. informed consent is everything. Now, the reporters that are asking me questions, well, you know this, people, you know, in your movement or in the, you know, the anti-vaccine movement that will say that, you know, they don't like the fact that she says she believes in vaccines. I say, look, everyone, there's a free country, everyone should have their opinion. But one thing that we stand for that Aaron Siri that, you know, does the working courtroom stands for, is your right to choose. Aaron said it, you have a right to vaccinate if you want to vaccinate. And you have a right to vaccinate. And you have a right to. avoid those vaccines. We shouldn't be telling each other what to do. We certainly shouldn't have

government agencies deciding what choices are going to make for us. I love it when, you know, Cassidy asked her, you know, well, you're going to, you know, you'd be surgeon general, you'd be the nation's doctor. Can't you recommend the MMR vaccine? She's like, but I'm not the patient's doctor. And I think that that is critical. That is, at the basis of this entire conversation, and Hippocrates, the Hippocratic Oath, do no harm. What that meant was, I am here for the patient sitting in front of me, not for the vast body or the greater good of everyone else, and you might die.

I can't worry about that. The entire point of the Hippocratic Oath is that I am dealing with the patient right in front of me. I am listening to what is going on in their body. I am studying their history, their family history of potential vaccine injuries, which, as more and more science comes out, I think Brian Hooker is going to prove to be exactly right. Nobody is surviving this program.

It's just varying degrees of injury that is happening. We have never seen kids this sick. But I will say, you know, I hope that Casey Means does get approved, and I hope that she goes on to be certain general. I think she should be dynamic. Obviously, her focus is food. Her and Callie Means wrote an incredible book. They've done a lot of great work on our food supply. I love the Eat Real Food campaign that Robert Kennedy Jr. is on right now.

now with the Maha movement. Food is important. Is it everything? We're not going to stop doing our work. We're going to keep showing the science around vaccines. But I'll be honest, I'm not under some delusion that one day vaccines are going to be wiped off the planet. There's always people that will believe in things whether or not they're smart to do. I mean, I've said, look, I ski. I just broke my rib skiing. I'm still going to ski with my kids. You can have whatever opinion you want about that. But that's how I'm raised my kids. That's what I believe in. This is, is a free country. We're supposed to be a beacon of light and hope for the entire world to show what freedom looks like, which means we can have conversations. We can disagree and ultimately

live with each other and cherish the fact that we are so diverse in our perspectives that we can look at one single issue like vaccinations and have completely different perspectives on it. That's what we're talking about here. That is why all of these great experts come to the high wire because they know they're going to get an honest take. They're going to get to speak their mind and say exactly what happens and even get into the weeds more than any other channel or network is going to let them do. I hope maybe one day Casey Means gets to sit here and I'll have some questions for her too. But we should be happy. I mean, no matter what, there's a lot going on, but Donald Trump did pick Robert Kennedy Jr. He did, you know,

allow Robert Kennedy Jr. for the first time ever, the HHS Secretary to select his cabinet members what doesn't happen all the time. I love many of the things that Dr. Martin McCarrie is saying. I love many of the things that Dr. Oz. Dr. J. Badacharya was, you know, one of the lead authors of the Great Barrington Declaration, and he's now in there at the CDC. These are powerful individuals. So as much as we're going to call out the mistakes and the missteps, let's also remind ourselves that there are some good decisions being making and we're, you know, made. And we're seeing people in government that never, ever an million years would have been there before. So let's celebrate those moments. Let's pray for

Casey means that she gets confirmed because I think she'd be a great surgeon general. This is the high wire. We're going to keep following the news as it happens, especially those things we can do something about. I hope you get up every morning knowing you're powerful, knowing you can make a difference in this world. That's what it means to be a part of the informed consent action network. Stay tuned and I'll see you next week.