The Highwire with Del Bigtree - FROM INSIDER TO ADVOCATE: CALLEY MEANS

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

TrueMed co-founder, Calley Means, chronicles his journey from big pharma insider to one of today’s prominent voices in medical health freedom. Hear his unique take on how government corruption has paved the way for dangerous chemicals to be used in the food industry, and how becoming an independent thinker has been a spiritual journey for him.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

I'm so excited about this next guest. You know, shows like the High Wire, like I said, for the last seven years, we've been talking about ending the chronic disease epidemic in all the ways that it occurs. We've been talking about pesticides and herbicides and food adders and fluoride and, of course, vaccines. But every once in a while, somebody comes along and then for whatever reason just has a meteoric impact upon the world that we're living in. I think that's how you would have to describe my next guest. Callie Means and his sister Casey Means, of course, has been out there. The two of them, just powerhouse. If you don't, for some reason, you've been living under Iraq and missed all this, this is what's been looking like.

I had the distinct pleasure of talking to Callie Means. Callie Means is literally going to change the world. Callie Means is a Stanford and Harvard Business School graduate. Early in his career, he was a consultant for food and pharma companies and is now exposing practices. they use to weaponize our institutions of trust. He is the co-founder of TrueMed and the co-author of Good Energy. He once worked for pharma. He definitely does not now. This year, in 2024, is the highest rate of cancer in world history,

and particularly American history, is the highest rate of autism in American history, is the highest rate of autoimmune conditions in American history. We are being lied to that cancer is random, that dementia is random, that kidney disease is random, that all these issues that are killing us are random. They're not. They're all exploding.

and they're all tied essentially to food. We have clearly a metabolic health crisis in this country, an obesity crisis, a situation where kids are frankly being poisoned. When you look at ultra-processed food and see all those ingredients, that's a science experiment by tobacco industry scientists. Right? All these perfect flavors, all these perfect chemicals, they hijack our biology.

Healthcare spends five times more than the oil industry. Multiple is more than any other industry. There's five pharmaceutical lobbyists for every member of Congress. You would expect our medical leaders to be speaking out about this. You would expect the head of the NIH, Dr. Fauci, to be on the steps of Congress saying that we are getting sicker because of food. This is all tied to food. But the devil's bargain is that every institution in the medical industry makes money when people are sick. There's no better profit generating force than chronic disease in the history of American capitalism.

We must urgently remove corruption. from the USDA, the CDC, the NIH, and prioritize root cause interventions and systems thinking to reverse the chronic disease crisis. What's amazing is that news montage with just all the interviews that Callie did yesterday. This guy's, I'm kidding, of course, but this guy's doing more interviews than anyone. I'm so happy to have him on the show right now. Callie, thank you for joining me today on the High Wire. There's an amazing montage there, Tell. and just so, so grateful to be on this mission, you know, with leaders like you.

Well, we are so happy to have you. I, you know, it feels like you came out of nowhere. It's like Superman swooped in. Your sister, Casey, of course, the two of you've written a book, I suppose, which is a part of this. I feel like the first time I saw you was on Tucker Carlson talking about Ozempic, right? Is that where this, I'm just trying to figure out like what lit this fuse. Where did you come from? Like, you know, how did it take off?

Well, you know, early 12 years ago was working for food and pharma. I got more into startups. You hadn't fully put the pieces together. I mean, this story really starts in 2017. sister shocked the whole family, you know, after working at the NIH, after top of her class, to have her med school after being at the end of surgical residency and saying I'm done, there's something really, really dark happening. I didn't learn why people are getting sick. And I said she was a complete idiot for leaving, you know, the medical treadmill. I still didn't

quite get it. But she radicalized me. And this came together. I mean, we started going on the war path in early 2021 when my mom had a pain in her stomach, went into Stanford Medical School, and was told she had pancreatic cancer, and the doctor said it was unlucky. And I knew enough by that time from Casey to know that the skyrocketing rates of every single chronic disease, like literally every single one is going up. And it's not unlucky. It's not a tough break. It's because we're being poisoned by the toxins, by food, by really a comprehensive set of

issues that you talk about that other leaders are talking about. So we decided literally bearing our mom that we were going to talk about this issue, you know, bring her medical perspective. But yeah, there's a picture of the most important moment in my life where we carried up my mom to the to look over the ocean in her final hours of consciousness. And she embraced my dad and really had gratitude for her wife. And that moment would have been robbed from us if we lived with the medical system. You know, we were being pushed for a bunch of interventions and she was able to die.

with us because we ignore the medical system. So yeah, we felt righteous about this. We felt angry and we felt a need to carry my mom's legacy forward. So we've been talking out, Tucker and other leaders in independent media have been amplifying this. Obviously, you and what Bobby Kennedy has been doing, you know, there's a coalition coming together here from many different perspectives, and it's amazing to be a part of. It really is. And, you know, just the hearing this week, with Senator Ron Johnson. I have been at, you know, the other, you know, second opinion hearings that he's had, but there's something electric. I mean, watching the politicians come through. This is what I haven't seen survived. Matt Gates came in for a while was sitting down. You had the head of the finance committee in the room telling his own story of weight loss and being lied to about the food supply. And then Ron Johnson as a part of that committee. And you start thinking, is it possible we could. could actually have a government that cares about this for the first time in like, you know, half a century? I want to underline that. I mean, Senator Crapo from Idaho, you know, I think he said this has not been his issue.

And he talked about his testimonial. He actually looked across the table and saw Max Lugavir. He didn't know he was there and listened to Max's podcast and helped that those podcasts and books helped him lose, he said, 50 pounds. Yeah. And it transformed his life. That's what I'm seeing, Del. I mean, I'm new. and maybe too idealistic here, but, you know, really the closed-door meetings, I cannot tell you how many senators and members of Congress who looked at me and said, this has not been my issue, but something's happening with Bobby Kennedy, something's happening with my constituents, talking about their sick kids, something's happening with my health, you know, and they're waking

up to this. And I do think the corruption is that we've set these orthodoxies. You know, we've set these orthodoxies almost of Western civilization of that we can't question the medical system that we can't question the fact that we're going to kind of hack our way out of our biology with all these drugs in progress and, you know, hacked our way into this idea that we, you know, no expenses too high for pharmaceutical interventions, but lifestyle issues are kind of fringe. This is all the result of just kind of like that's what the influence has done. It's led to this kind of kind of see where senators kind of, they can't get out of this box on how they think about health care.

I mean, I think the voices have done, frankly, propelled by independent media, is they're able to question that a little bit because something's untenable. You know, I don't think anyone is sitting in Congress really wanting kids to be sick. Sure. And I think what we saw with COVID

and what we just, I think the emperor has no close moment is leading people to ask questions. So, so yeah, we got to keep pushing. But I think it's a mix of what's happening on independent media. You know, when Americans have left their own devices, they gravitate to this show. They're gravitating to Joe Rogan.

They're gravitating to these. To really people that are unpacking these questions. And then I'll be direct. And this isn't a political statement. It's just like we need strong executive leadership. I mean, that's an imperative. This is a bipartisan issue. We need the president to be talking about this issue.

And I can't tell you. I'll just say this. So many members of Congress are like, I need that high level leadership from the independent medium from the president, because then it allows me to tell the lobbyists to get the hell out of office when when there's not direct top-down focus um that's when the special interest can win i mean i think that that's one of the things that you know we always want to say to people you know change begins with yourself change begins with you but in these situations the work that you're doing i know you've

been uh you know walking the halls of of washington dc i've done my share that it's tiring those marble floors have a way of really just beating into your feet and like it's cold it's dry and it's strange. But it's so important right now, and you're right. Our issue right now is these regulatory agencies. It's the government. The people, what do we have? I mean, you know, we've just done two or three stories today on fluoride or, you know, pesticides. These are issues the EPA has known has been a problem for 15, 20, 30, 40 years and don't do anything about it until some group sues for seven to ten years. I want to actually get into a conversation. You mentioned something at the hearing. That is something I'm really grappling with. I don't want

to get political, but you talk about the nanny state. I want to just watch this video clip really quick. We're going to get into that. Working for the food industry, we used to pay conservative lobbyists to go to every office and say that it was the nanny state to regulate food. And I think that's as a conservative myself, something that's resonated. I just cannot stress enough that as we're hopefully learned today, the food industry has rigged our systems beyond recognition, and addressing a rigged market is not an attack on the free market. It is a necessity for a free market to take this corruption out. So I just want to say that. This is, you know, and I always say on this show, I grew up a progressive liberal from Boulder, Colorado. I'm an environmentalist. Now I consider myself

politically marooned in most ways. All the parties seem to have their own issues. But this topic, like growing up a liberal, when I would watch conservatives, their attack on regulatory agencies, calling at the nanny state. And I would just sit there thinking, if you're, who is going to stop a coal mine from poisoning a river or the work that Robert Kennedy Jr., you know, all of the things that are pouring in from Dow Chemical and stuff into the Hudson River? Who is going to protect our food supply?

So where is the balance? Because clearly the regulatory agencies aren't doing that job. They're completely working for the industry. But as you're walking the halls of our government right now, what is the answer? Where is that balance to be found? So what I try to frame and what there's greater understanding of is like let's get out of any boxes right now. Let's just assess the problem. The problem is, and I've talked about, the cigarette industry became the largest food distributor in the world in the 1990s and shifted thousands of scientists to make our food addictive and lobbied and co-opted the USDA, just as a statement of fact, 19 out of the 20 people who make nutrition guidelines are paid for by the food companies, led to the food pyramid and led to a poisoning of Americans where they co-opted these agencies and put in chemicals to make our food cheap and addictive that is led to, and with the regulatory capture.

there's led to an explosion of ultra-processed food consumption that is absolutely decimating our kids and leading to exploding rates of chronic conditions that's absolutely decimating our human capital and going to destroy our budget because it's the largest and fastest growing part of our budget. So like we have it like almost an extension level event because of clear industry co-opting our regulatory institutions and are literally our food supply. I don't think anyone's really even debating that. So there is like this political question, a policy question, what to do about that. Now, what I used to do, as I was pointing out of that clip, is there's, especially on the conservative end of the spectrum, you know, and the libertarian left almost. I mean, it really, this idea of like hands off my food, hands off like no regulation, that's resonant.

So we weaponize that argument. And I even saw today on Twitter with people were posting some of Bobby's clips and saying, don't let Bobby come in and regulate the food companies. It's like, our food industry and our food supply is corrupt beyond recognition. And what there is a greater awakening on it in the right is it's not a violation of free market principles to unrig a rigged market. The market has been rigged. You can't have that happen. And then, oh, no, it's regulation to stop that.

Now, that could be a slippery slope. Sure. Like, we need to be very careful about this. But there is a positive dynamic. I'll just be, you know, on the right where there's been a greater distrust of institutions and of corporations. When I grew up as a young conservative in the D.C. 20 years ago, you know, trusting pharma without question and trusting the food system without question was a hallmark of that side. That has totally changed and that's a positive thing. So, yeah, you cannot have a free market with a rigged market. It is not conservative to be poisoning kids. It's not liberal.

You know, this is an issue where we just as a policy goal need to not have a compromised food supply and to get the corruption out of our agriculture and medical guidelines. This devil's bargain where the food industry has co-opted our food guidelines where the USDA says 90-30 percent ultra-processed food diet is safe for kids where added sugar is healthy for two-year-olds. and then a healthcare system that profits from chronic disease caused by food. We just have to end this. So I try to just level up to that, Dell. And, you know, I think that's breaking. I think this idea has come where all sides need to make sure. It sure seems like, I mean, it sure seems like we, as was so brilliantly stated,

I think by Robert Kennedy saying there's no such thing as a Democratic child. There's no such thing as a Republican child. They're all just our children and we should all care about them and make sure that, I mean, this country, we should have the healthiest kids in the world. Absolutely. It should be the number one goal and number one priority or the entire purpose of this nation, which is to make a country that is better, you know, for the next generation than it was when we found it. And we are moving the direction for the first time in history, we are going to have a generation of, children that may not live as long as their own parents, which is shocking. You have, you're such, you've got so many great data points. What's your elevator pitch? When you walk into one of these

politicians, what do you think when you lay out like the crises we should be looking at, what is it you lay on them? What are the stats that you think really grabbed people's attention? Yeah, well, I'll be, I'll be blow with you, Del. My framework is always, if I'm in these rooms, the politics drive the policy. So what I first talk about is that this issue of our, kids being poisoned and drug for profit. You know, we can all agree on some policy issues and that that's bad. But I'll be, you know, this is politics. What these representatives, I think, correctly, does some degree care about is what voters care about. So I point to the fact that this is a very resonant issue on all sides, but that President Trump said when Bobby Kennedy walked out on that

stage and said, make America healthy again, it was the loudest of applause these heard since 2016, that this is the leading issue on independent media, the best-selling books in the country, that this is a politically resident issue. If they talk about this at rallies, they're going to really reach voters, particularly women in independence, because everyone's concerned about child and health. So to be honest,

we start and do talk about the fact that this is politically resonant and this is a winner. And this is a jump ball. Really, it's a bipartisan opportunity. You know, I've been unapologetically speaking to any side that will listen, just as Bobby has.

And, you know, as President Trump's talked more about it, I, you know, I've met with, I've had a good meeting with Nancy Pelosi. And, you know, I disagree with a lot of her. And I think, you know, have some skepticism. But this was a good meeting. And she does not want this to be sick. I'll tell you that. So I'll talk to anyone. So you start with that. And then it's two points. And these are two bipartisan points. Let's agree on something unimpeachable, which is that our government guidelines for health should be unbiased. As is, you know, my recommendation, what I think is a political winner and how to solve this issue is let's have a six-month period where we decouple pharma funding from the FDA. That makes no sense. Let's reset the goal of the NIH to be a foundational research institution. It doesn't need to get into food or vaccines or anything.

Let's just actually ask the question, why are people getting sick, fearlessly and unbiasedly? That's what I want. The NIH doesn't do that right now. The NIH expressly is an R&D pharma lab. Yeah. Excuse me, a farm R&D lab. Right.

They don't do population-wide studies. Let's take a group of Americans of various, various, you know, demographics and study them and look at variables about what's driving chronic disease and overall mortality and sickness. And let that data take us to policy. Yeah. So that's number one, and that seems to resonate the anti-corruption initiative that, you know, many are talking about. And then it's flexibility. And I think this resonates on the left and the right. You know, our government entitlement programs are one-size-fits-all.

They mandate basically the drugs we need to take. If you're on a kid on Medicaid that has high cholesterol, you're getting a staten rammed down your throat. If you're a kid on Medicaid that's a little bit sad, you have a 15-minute appointment with psychiatrists and getting an antidepressment. If the science is correct, then it's opening up flexibility where, with flexible spinning accounts, things like that, where a mom and her kid and Americans can work, understand the data, work with their doctor, and have a personalized solution for them. If we can get the medical science, unbiased, and right, and then just trust the American patient

a little bit more to work with their doctors and medical providers to make the right decision for themselves, I think we'd be a transformed country. So that general policy framework does seem to be resonating. One of the things that you've brought up, which I think is just, it just is so glaringly insane is as you came out, you spoke about OZemPEC early on, and then you've gotten into more detail on other subjects. But now EZempic, you've brought light on the fact that they want to give this to, what is it, six-year-old children, I think, that are suffering from being overweight. just take me through what would be the cost of that. I mean, forget about the health of those kids being on this drug, the rest of their lives. What's the cost to the American taxpayer for something like that?

It's a great. This is a representative of everything. Yeah. Like I feel like one thing I've been trying to do is bring it down to the micro. So let's just walk through this and I think it represents so many other issues. So Zimpic costs $1,500 per patient per month. In Germany, it's 90. dollars. Wow. It's crazy. So this is another bipartisan thing. That is crazy. The U.S.

government's the largest buyers of drugs in the country. And by law, they can't even have a say. The pharma just dictates the price. So it's $1,500. And the number one bill farmer's lobbying for is to get it on Medicare. And I met with the person who introduced the bill. And I met with many of the folks who are supporting this bill. They don't understand what's in the bill. I explained to them that the second it's on meta, care for old people. That's 80% target market, 80% of elderly people all the weight or obese. So there's going to be open season on them. And then every single person a doctor gets to to jab them for life, that's an annuity to farm up $1,500 per patient. And then the second a drug gets on Medicare, this is the game, then Medicaid, it goes to Medicaid. Why would it be for elderly

people but not for lower income people? So it goes to Medicaid. What's happening on Medicaid? They're lobbying aggressively for six years and up. And 30% of six-year-olds are overweight or obese. Wow. So the second it gets on Medicaid, every single lower income in American who has a child that's a little bit overweight is going to be told that mom that they're anti-science unless they give their kid a lifetime O-Zempic jab. They're going to use the same arguments they did during COVID.

They literally slam you over the head. And you're actually anti-science now if you say obesity is tied to lifestyle. That's literally what Harvard Medical School is saying. They're saying it's a geogenic condition. So you have all the research funded. You have Novo-Nordics with 420,000 individual payments last year to doctors. $420,000 bribes, not even research grants. They're finding the research.

They're bribing doctors. This Danish company is one of the 10 largest media advertising buyers in the United States. They're one of actually the largest donators to the NACP, which is now a registered lobbyist for OZMPIC telling members of Congress that's racist not to pass this bill for Medicaid. Wow. It just goes down the loop. So what's the problem here? I mean, there's obviously problems with just trying to ram this drug down the throat.

But like, what does that bill do? It's one size fits all. That bill is not $1,600 to address obesity per obese American. It's they get a drug. You know, I grant drugs are potentially useful in some cases. I'm not fully anti-drug. Right. But is it the standard of care?

This bill enshrined just that answer. And, you know, we can all imagine what $1,600 per overweight or obese American would do if that was more flexible and could go to the root cause. I mean, what could we do with our farming system? could we do with getting the toxic out of our food? Can you imagine if you could get the government to give $1,500 per, you know, family to buy organic food every month, right? I mean, if we're going to spend that kind of money, then watch what happens to our workforce. Watch what happens to our productivity. Watch what happens to the cost of health care. I mean, there are places where the

government could actually, I know, like, we're not crazy about giving money away, but while you're in the, you know, in the world where you do that, why do we put some money to something that will bring all of our other costs down? Flexibility. America, there's a slur happening, DEL, which is that I think, you know, the medical system tells us Americans are lazy and wants to want to be sick. I don't think that's right. I don't think so.

My mom was following the food pyramid guidance, right? Yeah. She had high cholesterol before the cancer and took that stat, and she was told it was fine. She went to the Mayo Clinic and Stanford Medical School Hospital and she was getting the best. She was traveling. She wanted to be healthy. She was following the science, following the guidelines. So, yeah, if you can open up flexibility. Let's talk about that really quick, the food pyramid. Just, you know, who funded that? Like, who actually went, you know, are these the best nutritionists?

I mean, look, you could have taken every one of that panel, I'm sure. The other day, you got Jillian Michaels who spent her life in, you know, in fitness and just other people that have just, like, worked in nutrition their whole lives. Is that, is there a panel like that that's coming up with the food pyramid? Because I know, you remember when the Obamas are like, oh, we're going to get healthy. who is like it's right behind i guess it's right behind me that's it right there look at look at that brand like the number one source i guess right now is cereal bread grain all of which is going to be covered in glyphosate by the way oh of course of course which they didn't even realize at the time of the food pyramid that not only you know is is the is

the ingredients itself really problematic but the glyphosate is you know really destroying our microbiome in cells in ways we don't fully even understand del i i i i pushed this a lot. I cannot, I will, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm going to repeat this a million times to anyone who will listen. So this gets out the USDA nutrition guidelines committee that sets these standards like the food pyramid are outside experts where there's no conflicts of interest. 19 out of 20 of the current members today take money from processed food companies. 30% of the current USDA Nutrition Guidelines Committee members take direct money from Nobino Nordics or some other GLP1 drug maker.

It is beyond, it is just beyond the capacity for most Americans to even understand how bad this is. So the food pyramid, what happened? Let's just look at the facts. The two largest food companies, as I said, at that time, were Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds, cigarette companies. They bought out of food companies in the 1980s as cigarette smoking was declining. and by 1990, these two cigarette companies were the largest producers of food for Americans.

They took their lobbyists and they used the cigarette playbook for food, and they paid off the USDA Nutrition Guideline Committee members. So the people that made the food pyramid were directly paid for by cigarette companies. What was the foundational document underlying the food pyramid? It was Harvard. This is all Googled. It was Harvard research. So for the food pyramid, they held up Harvard research.

If you go to the bottom of that Harvard research and see who was funded by, it was funded by the Sugar Research Council, which was a front group for sugar. They didn't even try to hide it back then. The Sugar Research Council paid Harvard, the lead nutritionist researcher at Harvard, created the research saying carbs and sugar, you know, were fine. And that led to the food pyramid. Now, when the food pyramid came out, and we, you understand this, Della, and I think, think we all need to understand this. You know, there's a war with research because what our enemies

have realized is that Americans trust scientific research more than anything. So the food diet of Americans changed dramatically with the food pyramid. I mean, I grew up in the 90s. My mom thought she was doing the right thing by buying us the low fat crackers and all the processed food, and she was eating that, right? That was what parents were doing. We were following the government guidelines. So carbs is a percentage of the American diet increased 20%. We dramatically followed that. You know, when the surge in general in the 80s, you know, leading the food, the cigarette companies to buy food companies is smoking declined, people listen to the surgeon general. And for better or for worse, most people follow the vaccine guidelines and listen to

Dr. Fauci, right? It's just like, it's just we need to learn that lesson. Right. Now, I think it's 90% of Americans got at least one COVID shot. So, so, so that's the co-opting of the trusted leaders for better or worse, right, is something that's known by the medical industry. So, I don't want to co-op the medical research. I just want uncorrupted medical research because I'll tell you, if the head of the NIH, the head of the FDA, the head of the Secretary of Defense, because we're 77% of Americans aren't able to join the military because of their metabolic health right now, the Secretary of the Treasury, because we're going bankrupt from health care costs, if there was an all-out

front from our trusted leaders in medicine and other avenues saying that we needed to harden up our immune systems and get back to basics on, you know, eating whole food, we would do it. Like, that's why I'm kind of optimistic, Dell. It's like, like, this can happen very, very quickly. And it takes, it takes just leadership, frankly. So no brain, are you closed out the Ron Johnson hearing? I just want to take a look at this video really quick. We cannot go on existing as a species if our largest institutions,

our largest industries have co-opted our institutions of trust, our regulatory authorities, our government itself, and continue to profit. trillions and trillions of dollars from us being addicted, from us being in fear, from us being sick. We have to have top-down change. We need to fearlessly get back to science and start just asking and answering basic questions. Is glyphosate safe? Are these food coloring safe? Is it appropriate to give a child a shot three hours into life for an STD? Senator, thank you so much for convening this incredible discussion. Wet other country allows people into hollowed halls like this to absolutely savage the institution itself and big industries.

This does not happen in China. This is part of the process. The seemingly monolithic structures we're going against, I think can change very quickly with leadership here and leadership from outside. Thank you everyone so much for being here. do you ever run into you know a politician or someone that says i totally disagree with this i think synthetic food and chemicals and dyes are healthy yeah no this is it actually makes me really i've gotten heated i mean i'm not i'm not pulling punches in these meetings still as you might hopefully you can yeah maybe see from my vibe um the only time i get the time i get a little heated is no they don't do that the person the people who are propping up the OZIPBill, look at me and look, you know, I'm coming, I'm going with health leaders and, you know,

CEO of CrossFit and like Sweet Green, like healthy food company. We're just bringing a coalition of health leaders like we had at the panel to these meetings. They look at us in the eye and they say, gosh, we got to get kids healthy. We got to, the person who introduced the OZPIC bill literally said to me, we got to get kids off these drugs. and I actually think he meant it. I actually think we overestimate how smart these people are or how in charge they are. Like the person who introduced the Ozypic bill is a podiatrist, not that there's anything wrong without a foot doctor. He's been kind of playing the game for years, received millions from pharma.

And they come in, the lobbyists who kind of pay for everything and they say, can you introduce this bill? He didn't understand that Ozympic's a lifetime drug. He didn't understand that they're trying to push it on kids. He literally told me that it was a short-term solve. So, you know, I think almost in their heads they think they're doing their, but this is a multi-trillion dollar bill that's going to steer trillions to drugs instead of regenerative agriculture and, you know, research on what's poisoning us. So, no, the evil hides behind the kind of agreement.

They can all, you know, if the side of the health care industry that's profiting from sick kids, you know, if that's the status quo, they don't need to engage in any argument. They can just agree. And then the complexity of our legislative process can take care of the rest. That's why I do say, you know, non-politically, just I think this is just my framework. It's got to be three parts to true transformational change. Strong executive focus in leadership, strong personnel, and then a strong legislative, frankly, bipartisan action on this, which I think can happen from strong executive leadership. So without those three, we're going to just continue to have status quo and incremental progress,

quite frankly. Why I'm optimistic, Dell, and you talk about the top down, the bottoms up. Yeah. There's a bottoms up revolution happening, obviously, and that impacts politics and impacts the politician. So I think if we keep it up, it's going to happen. But yeah, that's what's needed. You know, when we, people watching right now, so much of what you're doing is behind closed doors, you know, working on the top down. What is your message to just your everyday consumer, have kids in the house, probably thinking, oh, my God. I mean, I did it. I'll be honest.

Like, I think we eat pretty healthy, but I got back from the hearing with Senator Ron Johnson. is like, all right, these health crackers, like, oh, my God, seed oil, you know what to be? Like, it's out, it's out. You know, we all have to do that and go into our cupboards and make sure that we've cleaned out our food supply for our kids. But what else can we do to put pressure towards the top? What is just, you know, your thoughts? What do you want my audience to do right now to help you get this job done?

Yeah, we're going to be talking more and more about this, but I'll be blunt. You always hear people saying call your member of Congress. I've never done it, like up until now. I'm just going to tell your audience what I hear from member of Congress after member of Congress. They say, I care about this issue, but my phone is ringing off the hook for abortion, for guns, for other issues. They're ringing off the phone from pharma because pharma pays tens of million. A lot of that lobbying and a lot of that money that we talk about, it's marshaling old people to call the office and say, don't take away my drugs like you're going to kill me like you know that that matters the grassroots

matters so we've got the hearing right we've got joe rogan and you talking about it many leaders independent media this it's creating this ecosystem right where it's it's becoming clear if the phones are ringing off the hook if they're hearing about this in rallies that's how decisions are made that kind of vibe it's actually beautiful it's this kind of a meba of american politics with these hundreds of members of congress they kind of hear things and pick things up and that kind of slowly melts policy, and you can combat the money with the grassroots. Now, all of us, I think, feel that grassroots fire. We got to channel it like the gun lobby does, like the abortions lobbies do.

They channel that so it's heard. So I would say we've got incroticdisease.org, which is something I'm working on. It's just, you know, it's a side thing. I and these other leaders, this coalition coming together. You can actually sign up and get your member of Congress. Literally call them and say, hey, why is the FDA funded by pharma? Can you can you can you can you stop can you stop that corruption particularly why the FDA is funded by pharma mentioned that that that'll register and we're at endocrine disease if you sign up we're going to have

more action to take but that does matter going and talking to your member of Congress at a rally or you know when they do a town hall um does matter I'd also just say um the most radical act we can take is independent thinking and I I just I'm kind of feel like this is a spiritual journey but like I just hear from many people, and I know you do, Dell, but people going on a path of independent thinking of health for their families, I just cannot stress this enough when it comes to chronic conditions, when it comes to something that's not going to kill your kid right away or you right away, step back from the medical system. We've got this book.

We've got many others. Just go on a path of curiosity, as many of your viewers are doing. And, you know, we're told right now it's fine for kids to get soda, but they could go to jail for drinking raw milk. You know, we're told that, you know, kids being processed puffs, you know, I'm being on a rigid schedule of 72 shots. But, you know, oh, we can't be, we can't be clear on childhood nutrition. You know, oh, some treats are out. You know, it's like the medical system is just very, it's very interesting what they're non-negotiables are, what they're not.

It's like it's wrong on everything. Like the children are being designated by chronic conditions right now. It's chronic conditions tied to food. and just backing up as much as possible and doing independent thinking for yourself when it comes to your child's health is really, really important. And you're scared not to do that. Parents are scared not to do that. The record of success is devastating for the industry. Like you cannot do worse than what's currently happening. The industry is not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

It's just that simple. That's just empirical fact. I want to be clear, if your child has an acute issue or you, if you have an infection or about to have something that's going to kill you or an emergency, you know, childbirth issue, the medical system is a miracle. I just want to say that again and again and again. It's acute versus chronic. If you have something that's going to kill you right away, you should listen to your doctor, most likely. If you have a chronic condition where they're putting out a prescription pad for a pharmaceutical for something that's not going to kill you right away or depression or anxiety or dietary advice,

they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Amen. Callie means, I know you're doing, you're everyone, you're working so hard. I've run into you in multiple locations. It just feels like a full court press right now. We've got the attention. I feel like Goliath is rocked back on his heels. We've got to finish this fight. You're a hero.

You're a rock star, wherever you came from. I'm just happy that you're here. And we'll continue to tune in with you and do everything we can to support the work that you're doing and that Casey's doing. And everybody, make sure you check out the book, good energy. great book super important you're doing god's work this is a spiritual war and just happy to be side by side with you thank for taking the time to join us today so proud to be on this mission with you del let's keep pushing all right we'll do all right i'll see you out there on the front lines