The Highwire with Del Bigtree - IS A DEADLIER PANDEMIC ON THE HORIZON?

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Virologist, Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche, joins Del for the first time in studio to revisit his “doomsday” prediction, and explain his extreme concern over new variants of SARS-CoV-2 driven by immune pressure through mass vaccination he fears could be deadly and highly virulent.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Over the last couple of years throughout COVID, we brought you some of the greatest minds in science that were bringing different perspectives on what they saw there. One of the most controversial, powerful, and perhaps horrifying was Gert Van Den Bosch, who had an incredible background from veterinary medicine all the way into working on the Ebola vaccine trials. I will say right now, for anyone that wants to challenge it, he's pro-vaccine. He has his perspective on those things. we may get into that a little bit. But when he decided in his world of really loving vaccines that this is one that was going to cause a lot of harm, it brought a lot of attention to us,

and we want to bring attention to that thought. This is what he was saying just over the last couple of years. Take a look at this. Dear colleagues at the WHO, my name is Here Fland-Busch. I'm urging you to immediately open the scientific debate on how human interventions in the COVID-19 pandemic are currently driving viral immune escape. It's first and foremost deliberate

on a scientifically justified strategy to mitigate the tsunami of morbidity and letality that is now threatening us. If you are now vaccinating people during a pandemic, that means that the antibodies are mounting while they can be confronted with the virus. There you start to put immune pressure on the virus. This can only lead to natural selection of the fittest

and it will ultimately become the dominant variant. So that means only people who will still have their innate immunity intact, have a chance, have a chance to survive. The safety impact will be tremendous and will be of an order of magnitude that is not even comparable to the side effects we are talking about. This is a second mass vaccination during a pandemic, a pandemic of a high infectious virus this time, right, with non-neutralizing antibodies that have been boosted that are going to be boosted because they are directed against an antigenic side. So your new neutralizing antibodies

have no chance whatsoever. My frustration is that the message is so difficult to convey, whereas this naive narrative that these guys are spreading is so easy for people to understand. It's basically, you know, shut up and get yourself vaccinated and also get your kids vaccinated, which is the biggest disaster ever, because this is the biggest reason. for herd immunity. They have innate immunity, they can clear this virus. They are the vacuum cleaners and they will eliminate the virus from a public health viewpoint, a disaster, not only for the child, but also, and the more children we will vaccinate, the more we will of course expedite this immune escape and get to this kind of variant that will not only be highly infectious,

fully resistant to the vaccines and also highly virulent. If they don't believe, me, they should simply wait and see what is going to happen. But it will be too late. The losses will be unprecedented. Well, for many of us that were, you know, watching here at Van and Bosch for the last couple of years, I think a lot of us, our shoulders went down. It was something that, you know, I was saying, I hope that this doesn't prove to be true. This idea that the vaccine would pressure the virus to become more deadly, maybe override the vaccine

and push so many into a deadly position. But before you think this might be over, Gert Van der Bosch has continued to write on this subject. And his most recent article is this, immunological correlates of vaccine breakthrough infections caused by SARS-CoV2 variants in highly COVID-19 vaccinated populations. This is an ongoing investigation for Giert, and I've been wanting to have him on the show for quite some time. But I've been busy, he's been busy. But in trying to prepare for this, I said, is there a way to sort of simplify this into a message? that can get out to the public. This is what he sent to us. This is the graphic that he gave us, and you can see the variable immunodominant epitopes, the conserved immune subdominate epitopes.

You can see the arrows and slides and things like that. He explains it a little bit clearer with this line right here. B-TIs trigger immune refocusing and thereby elicit broadly cross-functional antibodies and potentially pathogenic isotope switched, IGG4 antibodies, SIR enabling BBTIs drive large-scale viral immune escape in vaccines by reorienting the immune response to S-associated antigenic sites that prime broadly functional antibodies with low affinity. All right, you get the idea as I read through that. You can tell this is the type of hell that I live in. I have to try and make that make sense.

Luckily for me today, I have in studio, the one, the only Dr. Gere-Fent. and Bosch. It's really a pleasure to have you here in person. We had the opportunity to actually meet back in England just over a year ago. So it's really great to be here. I want to say right now, we're about to have a conversation that part of my concern is this, that I feel like the government that I live in, you're from Belgium, that's where you're living, really likes to ramp up fear around this virus and I feel like they're starting to talk about new variants and they're ramping up that fear and concern again and I don't like sort of helping them with that job. But I also don't want to be at the sleep at the wheel if there's the potential that people could be at real risk. And so

I think the best thing I can say to the audience right now is I don't know. I don't know what's true, what's not, but you, there's much of what you said. We watched the variance. You said We are going to see just a ramping up of the amount of variance. And I don't know what the normal, you know, course of variance by COVID every season is, but there was a lot. And it felt like that pressure was doing something. To be clear and to try and keep it simple, are you still concerned that this virus is not done mutating and could be potentially dangerous in the future? Yeah, well, I'm highly, highly concerned. And the reason is that, well, don't listen what our authorities say because simply they don't understand.

They don't understand where this is going. And they are trying to make us believe that the diminished pathogenicity that we are seeing right now in terms of COVID, right? Yeah, it seems like it's mostly nothing burger. Exactly, exactly. That the diminished pathogenicity we are seeing and the diminished concentration of the virus, in like wastewater, because that is the way they are now measuring. This is now to say like a proxy for measuring transmission. Okay.

The concentration in the wastewater. I know they do this with polio around the world. Is there polio in a village or something? They detect the water. You know, we can come back to this. For me, this is not a parameter to measure transmission. Okay. But the diminished pathogenicity combined with, let's say, lower concentrations of the virus

in wastewater, for them, This is now a sign that we have, so to say, herd immunity and that the virus is entering into endemicity, right? On the other hand, everybody knows this is not my theory. Everybody can see this. These are the data. We still do have cases of COVID-19. We even have severe cases of COVID-19. We still have a lot of transmission of COVID-19.

We still have a lot of evolution of the virus. to follow this, you know, these people who are watching, spotting all these mutants. Well, I can tell you, Del, that all of these contradicts hurt immunity. When you have a pandemic, because then the WHO is saying the acute phase of the pandemic is over, or the emergency phase of the pandemic is over. What does that mean? Because if you normally have a pandemic, you have an acute phase, phase, which is D-wave or maybe two waves, and then it enters into endemicity.

So there is only two phases, the acute phase, which is the wave, and the other is not even the pandemic anymore. It's the endemic phase. So we are clearly seeing an evolution of the virus that clearly illustrates that we don't have herd immunity. Because during a natural pandemic, you see none of this. The transmission is severely diminished, right? That is almost the definition of Earth immunity.

The virus is no longer evolving. Of course you will still see mutants, but they will not become dominant. Here we are talking when I'm talking about the mutants. I'm talking about mutants that become dominant. So there is still a lot of transmission. So they mutate, then that new mutation takes over being, you know. That is the whole thing, because. Why does it take over?

It can only take over if the environment it is in is in general hostile to it. So that means if you have like, you know, large cohorts of people that are exerting immune pressure that is suboptimal, that does not sterilize, then, of course, you know, you can start do natural selection and viruses, mutants that happen to have a competitive advantage. will take over. So that is the mutants you have them all the time, but for a mutant to become dominant, that only happens in this case on a background of large-scale suboptimal immune pressure. And that is very, very worrisome. So I'm saying what we are seeing right now has absolutely nothing to do. And people should be very clear about this with herd immunity. And I can tell you that they are in fear, of course, that, you know, another virulent mutant could come back, one that would be virulent in the kind of environment that we have been generating, namely the artificial immunity in a highly vaccinated population. And that is why they want to distract you.

And they say, oh, there is other viruses that are going to come, and we are going to see other epidemics and other threats. And all this is distracting, right? But I'm still focused on studying the evolution of the very SARS-CoV-2, of course, now in a kind of different shape in a different form. And that is for me still worrisome. Yes, to be very open, you know, it was declared as a health emergency. of international concern, which was a complete nonsense, as we all know. But now, although the fact, and this is difficult for people to understand, I fully agree, with regard to COVID-19, it's more or less silent, right?

Mortality, morbidity rates are very low. From the virus were seen, but we are seeing this incredible rise in all-caused mortality and not really knowing where that's happened. That is my point. that you put up the title of my new contribution, because what I recently found out is that a number of this side effect that we consider being direct side effects of the vaccine,

or in fact side effects, if you like, of the immune escape. So in fact, the immune response being focused now, thanks to or due to, I should say, the vaccine breakthrough infection, the immune response is now going to focus on other domains of the spike protein. Okay. And some of these domains of the spike protein are more conserved.

That's, remember, you will remember that people who get vaccine breakthrough infections, you know, they were, so to say, doing fantastic because all of a sudden they got broadly neutralizing antibodies. They declined very rapidly. Same with the mRNA vaccines. They declined very rapidly. But why did they have broadly neutralizing antibodies? because they were directed against the more conserved domains of spike protein.

But the more the domain is conserved and the lower the immunogenicity, you know, this goes together because if a domain is conserved, evolutionary speaking, it means it's very important. So the virus doesn't want immune system to recognize that domain that much. So what you have to bear in mind, the more it is conserved, so the less immunogenic, but also the more closely it often resembles components, peptides of our own cells. Okay. So now, immurifocusing starts refocusing to some extent the immune system to make it concentrate on domains of spike protein that have some self-resemblance, some resemblance with our self-components.

Right. You see what I'm saying. So now we start to induce immuorescence. responses that can recognize cell components in our cells. One of the arguments I heard Paul Offutt talking about this, he's concerned that, for instance, you're creating antibodies for spike, but those antibodies, there's parts of the spite that look a lot like a heart cell, and therefore the antibody that's protecting or trying to fight spike will go and attack heart.

This is one of his theories. These theories that are out there that because it looks similar, our own immune system starts attacking cells in our body. But even cancer cell, for example, you know, a cancer cell for example. very often starts with a slight alteration, a slight change of self-proteins on the surface of the cancer cells. Okay. At that very early stage, though, the proteins still very much resemble self-proteins.

We call them altered self. But those altered self proteins are also going to be recognized by this new antibody, so to say. So they are going to sit on this cancer cell, and the cancer cell can no longer recognize by the immune effector cells that should recognize this cancer cell and destroy. But they see it as oh, it's safe because that's self. Yeah. They recognize it.

So I guess what I'm saying is that, you know, I now found out that in fact, you know, I'm always after putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Yeah. Yeah. That in fact, also this whole spectrum of side effects where we talk about autoimmunity, when we talk about inflammatory reactions, when we talk about cancers for, example, or also apparently linked to immune escape, to this immuery focusing, immuery focusing lead to immune escape, but also exposes new domains of spike protein that are

responsible to some extent for the side effects. And that's also the reason, together with immune escape, we see even an evolution in the pathology of non-COVID-related diseases, where it was very much inflammatory at the beginning, It's now, you know, more like autoimmune, more cancer, non-inflammatory to some extent. So all the, so for me, the secondary effect responsible to a large extent for the excess deaths is also a sign that the virus continues to evolve and that the immune system gets further derailed, if you like. Right, because the immune system affects all of those things. It's affecting our cancer rates, all of these different things.

So as you look at this, and, you know, your concern, though, I mean, it is causing, if you're saying it's a part of, we are seeing this rise in all these other issues. We talk to Dr. Peter McCullough, very focused on the problems we're seeing with myocarditis in the heart. This idea, though, you had said early on that you believe the bigger issue was not going to be the side effects of the vaccine, the bigger issue was going to be these mutations. from the pressure of the vaccine in the middle of a pandemic. First of all, I want to say, you know, it's clear the vaccine doesn't work. I mean, now we all know people have got three or four shots, and they're saying I still got COVID three or four times. It's hard to imagine why, and I don't think a lot of people,

nobody's getting the boosters now. Nobody really buys that it works. But I think the question is, is after they've gotten COVID, why isn't COVID resetting the immune system, right? They get sick. They get symptomatic. They're like, oh, you know, I got pretty sick. What is it about the vaccine that, you know, had they not had it, they get sick and they're immune for a much longer, really strong immunity and they're able to protect themselves.

Why are they getting it over and over again? Well, you know, the key word to that is the vaccine breakthrough infection. So you remember when Omicron came, all people, you know, even those who were against this mass vaccination were saying, you know, this is fantastic. We are out of this crisis because Omicron is highly infectious. It's going to boost even those who are vaccinated. It's going to spread very rapidly. We are going to have herd immunity and it's not causing severe disease. So it's fine.

And I must say very honestly, I also at the very beginning believed into this, but not for a long time, maybe one week. Seven days, Gerep's cool. Yeah, well, 10 days. You're like, we're okay. I can go. No, no, no, no. But I'm saying, I mean, this is, this is.

It's sad to say, it's sad to say, but it's, of course, one of the most intriguing scientific challenges I've ever been tackling in my whole career. But of course, the outcome is sometimes very sobering. But what is happening is when the vaccine, when the virus breaks through that immunity, that then, of course, the antibodies that do no longer neutralize. See, that was the problem with Omicron. All of a sudden, there was a big change in this receptor binding domain, and all of a sudden, the vaccine-induced antibodies could no longer neutralize, or barely neutralized. There was a strong diminished neutralizing capacity of the vaccinal antibodies.

So the virus breaks through that immunity, and so very, very fast, because what you have then, when people are interested, they can read this in my book, is that you start to synthesize, so to say, non-neutralizing antibodies. they're going to attach to the virus and they are going to accelerate the virus, the entry of the virus in the cell and also the reproduction. So to your question, why is it that at that moment you don't stimulate the natural or the innate immunity? It's because the viral reproduction goes so fast. Normally innate immunity, for example, in case cells, is stimulated at a very early stage of viral infection. where some early proteins are presented at the membrane, at the surface of the infected cell,

there the NK cell can start to be trained. If it goes too fast, too fast you can forget about this. Fanden Bosch never said that you destroy innate immunity, but you sideline it. It goes too fast. So then the virus breaks through, but still the antibodies can still bind to spike protein to this dominant domains, if you like. It can still bind, we can no longer neutralize the virus. That's what we just discussed.

But by binding to these dominant domains, the word says itself it's dominant, it doesn't give a chance to the other domains to be recognized by the immune system. There is competition at the benefit of the dominant domains, but now they are hidden. So now subdominant domains that was on the graph that you just showed on the cartoon,

and we call them very, often recessive domains. These are domains that are normally never recognized by the immune system. They now get recognized, right? And they induce, to some extent, antibodies that have much lower neutralizing capacity. We have seen this. People will say, wow, wow, we have broadly neutralizing antibodies. Yeah, one or two weeks or after, two months are after. It's a shorter and shorter period of times. It's diminished. So the immunity was even further weakened, which further stimulated immune escape and in parallel you got more and more antibodies synthesized against domains that could have some similarity with self epitopes for example.

So this whole evolution that's why I'm saying that this was not a favorable sign and to your question why is it that these people who were vaccinated and got symptoms that was a clear sign of a vaccine breakthrough infection. The key word is the immune refocusing. They were forced, they're forced their immune system to concentrate on less immunogenic domains that to some extent shared even similarity, homology with cell of epitopes. And some of these antibodies at the beginning were cross-neutralizing, so they worked. But then of course, because these...

Becoming less and less. Yeah. So we were enhancing the immune escape. You were driving more and more sight-effective. And I think, that to some extent, before we come to what my fear is, a variant that will be more virulent in some vaccines, namely those who were not trained before haven't gotten the vaccine. Okay.

So they didn't get infected before the vaccine. They got the vaccine. And now what's your fear? We're coming into, you know, we're right here. We're probably a month or two from the beginning of cold flu season. when coronaviruses tend to kick in all those things. What is your concern? So my concern is that the protection that the vaccine is,

and of course I'm not talking about all the vaccine because I've even launched recently a video message where I was clearly saying people who got one shot, don't worry, you're not primed. So one shot, if you only got one, you're probably didn't do the damage. People who got clearly the infection before they got vaccinated, don't worry. I think they may, you know, to some extent, their immunity may be compromised, but they are certainly having innate immunity that they can further develop and they got primed.

So you got infected first, then got one vaccine, you're probably okay. One vaccine, never a problem. One vaccine, not a problem. One shot, never a problem. Before or after infection you don't get, never a problem. When you get infected before you got vaccinated, not a problem either. Okay. But it becomes, it becomes very tricky when you got vaccinated.

vaccinated especially with the MRNA vaccines early on before you got infected. And that is primarily the case of all the vulnerable people. Right. Those were vaccinated first. The elderly. The elderly people with underlying diseases, people who were immune suppressed, et cetera. And so my fear is they are so far protected by this non-neutralizing antibodies. I'm explaining this in my book.

It's quite complex because they are on one hand side. I just explained. Right, here's the book, everybody, if you want to take a look at Inescapable Immune Escape Pandemic. I will say this right now because obviously our show deals with a lot of vaccinations. You are not anti-vaccine, correct? I mean, that's, and you are, and I want to be also totally up front. Part of the work you're doing is you are working to make a vaccine that incites the innate immune

system versus the sort of memory side, right? The question is, do we still call this a vaccine? Because, you know, I mean, we can have the discussion. We'll have that another time, but I just want to be in all this exposure. Yeah, exactly. We meet in this space, but there are things that we would probably talk about. There is some common denominator that, you know, people become more aware that our first line of immune defense that we got, you know, from birth, that there is nothing wrong in strengthening this, right? Right.

And that innate that first response. Absolutely, absolutely. So that is the whole thing here, because that is still the only thing. thing that protects us unvaccinated or those who got trained before vaccinated. Because now there is so many variants out there and they'll, do people imagine? They're highly infectious. They're highly infectious. How do you think that we are still protected?

It's because our first line of immune defense got exposed all the time and is now, do you people who, do you know people who are in good health and, you know, got not vaccinated, who are still getting or getting the disease? I'm not that I can, I don't know what there's such a matter. Yeah, yeah, I'm just saying. I'm just saying, so that is really what protects us, and that is what missing in the vaccinese. I mean, they have now to completely rely.

Their innate immune system that goes on attack first. They're only relying on that sort of memory, and it's dysfunctional because it's, it's completely dysfunctional. And they have nothing else to rely on except, except this non-neutralizing antibodies. there is a mechanism that explains how they can still protect against severe disease. Right. But that protection is temporary. We know that these antibodies do not have memory.

So when the production of those antibodies will come to an end, and I'm also explaining how this will happen, then I'm afraid these people will be without any their adaptive immune responses. They can forget about this. I thought already that's why my predictions, remembered, I was saying one year ago, I'm afraid that it's going to happen before the end of the years. So I missed my timeline by one year. This was because I was not aware of this immune refocusing. I was not aware that these non-neutriizing antibodies would protect against severe

disease. So this was delaying the whole thing. But now when this is going to, when these antibodies are going to decline, I mean, these people can not rely on a native. And get another vaccine, that will ramp it up. But I mean, even comedians like Dana Carvey are like, it just gets shorter and shorter. Like it lasts for one hour. We can make the discussion very complicated. I don't want to do this.

But I will tell you. No, no, no. Yeah, I will tell you one thing, which is very easy for people to understand. I'm saying that the biggest gap, the biggest gap in the understanding of the pandemic and the reason why our held authorities and even scientists do not understand what's going on,

which is very, very scary, right? The biggest gap is immunology. They are all after molecular stamp collection of the mutants and detailing this in all kinds of, and then all they know is about neutralizing antibodies. Have you ever heard them talking about immureate focusing, about what is the role of the IG4 antibodies? Nobody really understands this.

High affinity antibodies, low affinity antibodies, antibodies, non-neutralizing antibodies, etc. It's very, very complex, right? I'm diving into this because, you know, this was always also my job. But it's not understood. And that is the reason why right now people are just looking at what is happening. Oh, the mortality, morbidity rate is relatively low. All the measures have been relaxed.

And, yeah, we are seeing low virus concentrations in wastewater. So we can, and they define this as endemicity, herd immunity. And then like for flu, you can, so to say, say, well, we can live with the virus because we can give a shot to the vulnerable. When places where the immunity is waning, we can fill up this gap again and we can protect. Yeah, this is provided you have herd immunity. You hear me saying that we don't have herd immunity. Because flu, nobody's ever taken this shot that month. There's always been a huge body of people that are catching flu, have natural immunity.

you're saying we have herd immunity, so all you have to do is handle this little group of people that may be having issues. In this case, you vaccinated so many people. Your concern was we will wipe out our ability to get to herd immunity. And that is proven to be true. I mean, on that level, you were right. I think the vaccine interfered. We were not able to clear this virus. It is still hanging around. It, you know, likely will come back around. Now, your concern then is that if you got two, three, four of these vaccines, especially if you didn't have a primary, like if you weren't primed by the virus itself, that you could have real trouble when your antibodies start failing in a future variant coming in the winter.

Because what people need to understand, and, you know, from the very beginning, I've always very clearly, you know, pronounced or against discrimination between vaccines and the own vaccine. Right. But there is one thing, and it's not a reason to discriminate, but there is one thing that we cannot ignore. That is that the immune status right now of an unvaccinated person is fundamentally different from the immune status of a vaccinated person, right? And so if that immune status of the vaccinated person concerns the majority of the population, which it does in highly vaccinated populations, not in Africa, then... 70% of the vaccine in America. Come on. The virus is going to adapt to that

status, of course, because that is the majority. And so therefore, I continue saying it's not true to say, oh, there will be a variant that is highly, highly virulent. No, this variant will have the capacity to overcome the inhibitory capacity of the non-neutralizing antibodies to prevent severe disease in the vaccine. So it's not that it's like this super deadly, it's not going to be super deadly to the unvaccinated, who have a perfectly working immune system. I recognize that, I'm fighting that. It's just going to be those whose bodies will not be able to mount the proper defense. Yeah. And there's going to take a virus that isn't necessarily, but it's going to be deadly for them. Exactly. And that is why I thought it was so important to clarify which people, in my humble

opinion, or at risk, it's for God's sake, not all the vacciners. And it is, thanks God, especially not our younger people who got vaccinated later on in the process. Odds are they were. And who were already, for most of them, exposed to natural infection. So I think that is very, very important. And that is not to scare people, but I'm saying the immunology is not understood. And certainly our held officials, they have no clue. They don't know where this is going.

I think for the moment they're just trying to keep their pants dry, right, because they are fearful. Sort of like what we're seeing. But then they are going to say, oh, wow, other pandemics will come. And when this would possibly happen, what I say, they will say, see, we told that other pandemics, because in the meantime, the Omicron, the Arcturus and all these new species are very, very different from the original Omicron. There's many people who say, come on, we can no longer, we can no longer call this Omicron descendants or Omicron deride variants. We need to label them with new serotypes, really, right? They're very, very, very different.

Interesting. And your solution, you've been saying that you think that people that have gotten these multiple vaccinations, you have a solution and that's antivirals. Very quickly explain how someone would use antivirals in this situation. Yeah, well, my fear is, and I'm very serious about this, is what we may be facing is because. because we, you know, the indirect effect of the vaccine may be that we, in a vaccine, we take away all the immune defenses. As you were pointing out, the adaptive immunity, does it work

anymore. You know, these non-utilizing antibodies are part of the adaptive immunity, but they have no memory. They are very, very short-lived. So, and the innate immunity is not developed. If we take away all this, I mean, people have to realize that the virus simply blows through the whole system. This is a cytolytic virus. It can destroy cells. And this could lead to really enhancement of severe disease, enhance severe disease. So in that scenario, I'm recommending people who fall in the category that is at risk, according to the criteria that we just discussed, to take the antivirals in advance, in a prophylactic way. Because I think that when we start treating them by the time, as we did in the past successfully,

Peter McCullough, many others, if we start treating them at the moment where the symptoms become obvious that we will come too late. People are always thinking, what is the difference between infectious and virulent? It's very easy. If you have an infectious virus that infect cells and that can destroy the cells, that is cytolitic, and you have no immunity, Dell. Automatically, it's highly virulent. You see what I'm saying?

So the level of virulence is to a large extent determined by the defenses. Of course. Here people are all the time talking about the virus as if the virus were in charge and the strategy of the virus, et cetera. I'm saying, does the virus have brains? Because, you know, and the immune system is completely neglected. We see this evolutionary changes of the virus, but in parallel, also the immune system is evolving, trying to adapt these dynamics are not understood at all. You know, in the stories we just showed before we came out here, rises in shingles, in herpes, oster, leprosy, these tell us that our bodies are losing.

Immune suppression. Immune suppression. Immune suppression. Immune suppression. Is not fighting off things he used to fight very easily. You can't do it anymore. I was glad to hear that you take this seriously. I take this seriously. Even the monkey pox and these things, I take this seriously because this is the result to some extent of immune suppression

and also to some extent, you know, or the vaccinee is being able to transmit this asymptomatically. It's complex, but their immune defense against COVID, to some extent can overlap with immune defense against other diseases because, for example, monkey pox is normally symptomatic. If things are symptomatic, You can very easily stop the spread.

Just simply go in the other room, hang out over there for a little while. Now if you make this asymptomatic, now you have another situation. You think that's the side effect of this mass vaccination. We're turning these things asymptomatic. They're spreading without being... Del, if you get the immunology, you will at the end of the day find out that all these things are related. It's not like a coincidence. It's not like these health authorities wanting to make us crazy.

There is some reality in this, but you know, we ought to put the pieces of the puzzle together because this is a complex phenomenon. We are playing with thousands of years of evolution that we are missing up.