The Highwire with Del Bigtree - LEADING PHYSICIAN CALLS FOR MORE SCIENCE ON CHILDHOOD ILLNESS

Episode Date: February 11, 2025

Emergency & Integrative Medical Physician, James Neuenschwander, MD, joins Del to discuss the invalid vaccine claims made by legislators in the RFK Jr. hearings and explains why the science is not settled when it comes to vaccines and autism. Hear how his organization, Medical Academy of Pediatrics and Special Needs (MAPS), is bringing together practitioners to treat childhood illness in a more functional way, and get the details on their upcoming conference.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

A lot of conversations are coming up around science and medicine inside of these hearings. And I wanted to sort of get to the bottom of it. There were several doctors on the health committee asking, you know, very serious questions. But you get this impression if you're, maybe if you're just watching the high wire for the first time, that every doctor knows that the studies have been done. There are a lot of branches of medicine. There are a lot of doctors and scientists out there that don't exactly agree with the mainstream perspective. or are doing specific work working with autistic children, working with a lot of autoimmune disease. They're investigating that and saying, look, there is a disconnect from the education that I got

and the children and the people that I'm trying to treat. There is something in the way. We are not getting proper science. It appears that because some of the science we are told is making us healthy may actually be making us more sick, or at least some of us. Anyway, to get into some of the details of that, we want to talk about that. What are we talking about?

Well, this is what it's looking like. As I understand it, dozens of studies done all over the world that make it very clear that vaccines do not cause autism. Numerous clinical trials, rigorous studies, and review by an independent panel of experts that show vaccines are safe and effective. Vaccines are not associated with autism, an evidence-based meta-analysis of case control and cohort studies. An article from Autism Speaks titled, quote, do vaccines cause autism, end quote.

And I'll note that the first sentence states, quote, vaccines do not cause autism. Will you reassure mothers unequivocally and without qualification that the measles and hepatitis B vaccines do not cause autism? All over the world say it does not. What do you think? He's relitigating and churning settled science so we can't go forward and find out what the cause of autism is and treat these kids. Convince me that you will become the public health advocate, but not just churn old information so that there's never a conclusion. When you continue to so doubt about settled science, it makes it impossible for us to move forward. So that's what the problem is here. Life-saving vaccines are safe and effective.

The scientific community has established that. That COVID vaccines say millions of lives. If you come out unequivocally, vaccines are safe. It does not cause autism. That would have an incredible impact. That's your power. The evidence is there. That's it.

Vaccines do not cause autism. Do you agree with that? I was sitting in the room watching that. And I want to say this. To have this conversation, I truly believe that everyone that we just showed in that montage absolutely passionately believe that this science is settled. They passionately believe that it is dangerous

to relitigate something that they believe has already been covered. It's been extensively looked. looked at. They are good people and rightfully so. They're as passionate as I am in saving children. The question is, are they right about the science, what they're looking at? Has this been properly litigated? That's what's on the table. So I just want to say right up front, my heart goes out to the humanity inside of everyone involved in this conversation right now because they're not evil people and I hope that they don't see Robert Kennedy Jr. and people like me and those of us that think

there's a conversation to be had here as evil people. I would guess we're both looking at each other like, you're misguided. You're just very misguided. But it's obviously up for debate. The fact that this conversation is happening inside of the Finance Committee and ultimately the Senate is going to be discussing this means this conversation is happening whether we like it or not. But to get a little bit deeper into it, I'm going to go to a maps doctor that sits at the center of this conversation. Dr. James Newen-Schwander, they didn't write it on my board. What is Maps saying for? It's supposed to be right there. Oh, here it is. Medical Academy of Pediatrics and Special Needs. Yes, yes.

You know, we just watched this firing line. Yes. asking the question, let me soften it just a little bit. Is the science settled and is relitigating the science holding back the advancement in getting to the answer around autism? Well, the science is clearly not settled, mainly because the science hasn't been done. I mean, you well know when these vaccines were developed, what the safety trials look like. And you can take a doctor and just tell them, did you know the hepatitis B vaccine was studied for four and five days? And they'll say, you're making that up until you actually pull out the package insert and read the section and they won't believe it.

And a smart doctor, a doctor that really wants to know the truth, will go investigate it. And I have yet to have any of these doctors come back and say, wow, the science really is settled. I found 27 articles on the safety of the vaccine schedule and how they studied it for the outcome. come in these children. The science just isn't out there. Right. How is it? What are they pointing to?

Like when you're seeing, I mean, they were like, you know, Bernie Sanders had a, what I thought was sort of a comical line. My understanding is that there is dozens of studies that show. So he's not even saying, here they are, I've read them, will you read these? He's saying, my understanding is from somebody that's told me this exists, We don't live in a world of an orally passed on language and testament. We write things down. Right.

Well, again, the studies he's referring to primarily are about the MMR vaccine and an ingredient that used to be in vaccines, thymarisol, which is a mercury-based agent that was in vaccines. So when you look at those 12 or 13 studies, the ones on MMR, I mean, you well know one of those because you did a movie called VAC. all about that study. So that was one of them. But the other studies, there are population studies

where they're saying, you know, we had X amount of autism, and then we had all these vaccines, and we added the MMR into it, and it didn't seem to make a big difference. I mean, you've covered this extensively on your show. You know, my favorite metaphor is the, you know, Scotch doesn't cause intoxication

because we did a study with everybody got 16 shots of vodka And these people got one shot of scotch, and guess what? They weren't any more drunk than those people. Therefore, it doesn't cause it. You know, we call it tobacco science because... Well, that's... Tobacco science, that term. I mean, really, it's science that is done with the endpoint being the driver.

Right. Our goal is to prove this, therefore, how do we build a study to prove that? This is my biggest issue. When we think about the scientific method, it's like anything. It's like a crash test study. I'm supposed to be able to take your car and see if I can make it fail. I'm going to hit it in any way that maybe you didn't even think of. I'm going to do crazy things to say, oh, see, I caught you.

If it's hit at this angle, everyone dies, right? My job is to press it and push it. The only studies looking at vaccines and autism are done by people or are setting out that are funded by farm or funded by the government that's already pushing this product to prove an endpoint. which is what we see in Vaxed. What you see in Vaxed is, oh my God, we are seeing an increase in autism in, you know, compared to this control group and the timing and everything that's going on. Let's change the study to change this outcome.

We don't see people that actually, you know, go in and say, let me prove how the MMR would cause autism. Let me prove that. And then a person that tries to prove it can't, can't show that MMR causes autism. Now you've done a real safety study, as far as I'm concerned. Right. Right.

I mean, that should be the foundation of true science. You have a theory. You should then have experimental protocols. You should be gathering evidence to try and prove your theory wrong. Right. Right. So the whole idea of the null hypothesis is that you are trying to create the evidence to prove yourself wrong. Right.

Not right. Right. And it's only when the odds of your theory. being wrong are less than a certain number that, oh, well, yes, that theory is correct. Right. Because the theory exceeds the evidence for the null hypothesis. Right. So they're doing the opposite.

They start with the program to prove that it doesn't cause autism, not does it cause autism. Which is what this panel just did. And I mean, I don't want to put anything on this. except to say it sounds to me they're demanding, we don't want anyone inside of HHS that's going to challenge this, like it's never happened, or maybe they think it's happened, but we know it hasn't.

This is a product that is never allowed to have someone do a challenge study that says, I'm going to try and prove that this product causes this problem, a true safety trial, if I can't do it. And by the way, I know how Robert Kinney Jr. is wired because I'm wired this way, which is if I honestly was able to do the study of vaccinated and unvaccinated and and press it as hard as I can, I would be the first one to say,

I have just overseen this study. I brought in scientists to do it as well as it could be done. I set out to prove that a vaccine or a group of vaccines could cause autism and I couldn't do it. Well, and you have to remember, we didn't just wake up one morning and say, oh, I think vaccines are involved with autism. You know, this is from sitting knee to knee with parents who over and over and over again say, you know, vaccine X, vaccine Y, appeared to cause my child's eczema, my child's asthma, my child's autism, my child's ADHD. So, you know, there's a saying in pediatrics, you know, ignore mom or dad, ignore them at your own peril, right? So you want to listen to what parents are telling you.

And if they're saying that vaccines are somehow related to what happens. to their child, then maybe we should be doing studies to investigate that rather than ignoring what they're telling them. Studies to prove that what they're saying is wrong. Correct. And instead, they're just gas-lining, oh, no, you're mistaken. Oh, no, they were always that way. We've always had this amount of autism. The rates aren't going up. I mean, this is an epidemic. You know, if, I always say if autism was COVID, we'd be shut down forever. Because right now the rate is 2.8% it's 1 in 36, 1 in 38. We don't know, those are 8-year-olds.

We don't really know what the current number is. It might be 1 in 20, right? And so it's very, very concerning. We have to wait for these babies to get the 8 years old, but we know what I'm right there is. They won't evaluate until they're 8 years old, so they're sure about the diagnosis. Because, you know, you can diagnose autism early on,

but people will doubt the diagnosis. So the standard is 8 years old, okay? Okay, very interesting. So you have an 8-year-old cohort, and then they have to, evaluate the evidence for a few years. Right. Because the last data we had, those kids were born in 2012. Right. I mean, it's 2025. So even if you're talking eight-year-olds, we should have

2017 or 2016 data. Interesting. We don't. They're supposed to publish it every two years, okay? Every two years. So we should have had at least two more numbers. They haven't published them. What's going on? You know, it's always very suspect when they start doing that sort of stuff. What is it about, tell me a little bit about maps so that we know, like how you're coming into this conversation? Well, yeah, I mean, MAPS was born of an organization called Dan. So Dan was defeat autism now. Okay.

And the idea behind Dan was, what the heck is going on? We've got this epidemic of these kids. We don't know what's going on. This is something new. How can we figure this out? So the idea behind Dan was they were going to bring together parents. They were going to bring together researchers and practitioners. So Dan conferences brought them all together and just said, what are you seeing?

Is anything you're doing working? What are you doing? Is anything over here working? And trying to bring people together so we could get to some of the basics of how can you treat autism. Is autism treatable? Right. Because I mean in mainstream thinking in medicine, autism is considered a psychiatric disorder,

meaning the only solution is therapy and psychotropic drugs. But we know autism is far more than just a psychiatric. disorder, there's a lot more going on there. So what we were trying to figure out was, you know, what's going on with that. So Dan sort of fell apart in the late 2000s, and from that came MAPS. So MAPS was mainly just practitioners, started in 2012. And again, the idea was we're looking for evidence, we're looking for science-based interventions that we can better understand autism, but also ways to treat autism and even better to treat autism and even better to to prevent autism, right?

Because if you have a parent that has a child who's autistic and they want to have another child, these parents read, okay? If your risk of autism just randomly as one in 36, great, if you have a child with autism, that risk goes way up, right? It's gonna be more like 15%. So, you know, you really wanna know,

what can I do to prevent autism? Well, they don't teach you that in medical system. Can I assume that this concept of preventing autism is heresy, in the political establishment. Because that statement assumes that there is some controlled environment, like something that we do that is bringing about when it seems like mainstream, we're still trying to say it's mostly genetic or something.

Or are we shifting? No, well, we may be shifting. I mean, genetics, you know, it's like what's going on with cancer. We've spent billions of dollars trying to discover the genetic sources of autism, the genetic sources of cancer, treating it based on genetics. But that really isn't the answer. I mean, it appears to be, genetics always are involved with anything we do to a certain percentage, right? But most of the time it's how those genetics are expressed in the environment, something we call epigenetics, which, by the way, you can inherit epigenetics as well.

Right. But it's how those genes are expressed in the environment that determine what kind of outcome you get. So if you have a child, I mean, if you look at, you know, what causes autism, you're talking. about, first of all, you're talking about spectrum, so not every kid's the same, right? But most kids, and it's maybe 60, 70%, something in that range, most kids on the autism spectrum have some type of brain inflammation that is affecting their development, right? So you have a kid that's developing normally, something happens, it creates inflammation of the brain, it disrupts the brain ability to prune connections, to establish connections, and

the outcome is what we call autism. So we know that there are underlying biochemical pathways that are involved with this. We know kids on the spectrum don't detox very well. We know kids on the spectrum have trouble with certain fundamental biochemical pathways like methylation. And the bottom line is we can do something about that, right? I don't have the ability to change your genetics. You know, we haven't figured out CRISPR yet.

But, you know, I don't have ability to do that. But I do have the ability to alter what those genetics do. And at the end of the day, the genetics haven't changed. You know, there's no such thing as a genetic epidemic. Right, right. So clearly that's not why we're seeing the numbers that we're seeing. And you know, the issue I have with these hearings, because boy, when you put those people back to back to back to back, it was a lot harder than just watching the whole hearing, okay?

Thank you very much. I needed to take blood pressure medication during that sequence. But the problem there, it's the same 12, 13 studies that everybody's referring to. Right. They've never studied DPT. They've never studied Previnar. They've never studied Hep B. They've never studied Hep A or any of the other vaccines on the childhood schedule.

Right. And they really have not studied the entire schedule for causing autism. Right. They haven't. Yeah. They have not. And Bernie or anybody else in that committee, any reporter out there, if you have the articles. I'll take one that says the vaccine schedule is not associated with autism.

I would sure like to see that because I can't find it. I can't find it either. And as Robert Kennedy Jr., I think people thought you're evading the questions. It's like, show it to me. If I read it to me, I think he went as far as to say, not only will I read it, not only will I, you know, stand by it, I will apologize to the world for anything that I've said. Now, Bernie Sanders is going nuts at that kind of like then, but why won't you state it right now based on As he put it, my understanding, based on my understanding of science right now, will you say unequivocally?

So let me ask you, unequivocally, do vaccines cause autism? Let me ask you this. Are vaccines the cause of autism? Okay. Are vaccines the cause of autism unequivocally? No. Why do I say that? Because I have patients who are completely unvaccinated to have autism.

So it cannot be the cause. Okay. Hold on a second. Hold on. Let me just take a moment. You're watching the high wire right now. it's clear because I'm sure there'll maybe even be reporters watching right now. I'm interviewing a man who looks at autism all the time that just said unequivocally,

vaccines are not the cause of autism. And more specifically, how does he know that? Because there are people and children he's looked at that have autism that haven't been vaccinated. I just allowed that to be stated on this show. Okay. I'll never be invited back. You may never be invited back. But I mean, okay, I just want to say, what they write about this show, they act like,

oh, they just have this agenda, this whole thing. I'm going to agree with you just from my research. I've interviewed families that have come forward when I was out on the road with VACS. The bigger question is, are vaccines a cause of autism? And for that, I would say unequivocally, yes, based on experiences with the patients that I see, based on the biochemistry and the underlying mechanisms of autism. If I'm going to say that 60 to 70% of kids have autism because they have chronic brain inflammation,

what is that? Chronic brain inflammation is encephalitis. Now, not infectious encephalitis, like from a virus like equine encephalitis, you can get from a mosquito, but an autoimmune encephalitis. So if you look through the package inserts for these vaccines, how many of them have encephalitis as a side effect.

Here we go. This is Boostrix. There it is. One of the side effects is encephalitis. MMR2, encephalitis, encephalopathy. Endericks, encephalitis. What is it? Fluad quadravalent.

Encephalitis. These titles are a little bit high up for me. Inverex. Encephalopathy. There it is. Havrex, same thing. Gardasil. There you go.

Acute disseminated. Encephalitis. from Kampavax, HB, Verovax, Encephalitis, you know, there you go. Those are the childhood vaccines in the incident. So is it safe to say anything else other than vaccines that causes brain swelling in a child, especially in infant, encephalitis, could have a resulting symptom, if you will, of autism? Right, because, again, autism is not, we don't do a biopsy and diagnose autism, right? Autism is a set of behaviors that we diagnose it by.

I mean, that's everything in psychiatry. And unfortunately, autism is not alone in this world. I mean, schizophrenia, bipolar, major depression, ADHD, all of them have a percentage of the patients that have those disorders. Brain inflammation is part of those disorders. So the issue here with the encephalitis and the reason why people say, how on earth could a tetanus shot cause autism, right? It's because the tetanus shot can create the encephalitis that we know is at the root of many cases of autism.

Not all of them, but many cases of autism. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. So you have this. Yeah, it can cause this. There is a mechanism, a plausible mechanism. And if that's there and you have a lot of eyewitnesses, i.e. parents telling you this happened,

then why aren't we researching the heck out of this with studies to determine can we prove that that doesn't happen? Have we ever done studies? I mean, do you, I mean, I don't know if I've really looked at where we follow kids, vaccinate them, and then do scans of their brains to see if they're having encephalitis events or at what rate? Yeah, as far as I know, that hasn't been done. You know, again, the... Can I make a note to our team? I want to put in a FOIA request on...

So the issue with diagnosing encephalitis is frequently you have to do it based on markers and spinal fluid, all right, which means you have to do a spinal tap on a kid. All right, so you're probably not going to do that. Yeah. There are ways to do MRI scans to try and diagnose subtle encephalitis, but this is not the full-blown, the patient's unconscious because they have measles and cephalitis, right? This is much, much more subtle than that. So the study, the big study that showed it was autoimmune, that was an autopsy study, where they took brains of people that had autism that had died from other reasons and actually showed that the brain had the pathophysiology of an autoimmune encephalitis.

Okay. So that's where that information comes from. So obviously we're not going to do brain biopsies. Right, right. And it's hard enough to do spinal taps on anybody, but especially on kids. So they're probably not going to do that. The issue really is one of, you know, do we have evidence of the vaccine schedule being associated with autism? I mean, that's really what it comes down to.

And they could have figured that out long ago. I mean, we have these data sets, you know, the vaccine safety data link, that's where they got the data to do the aluminum asthma study. Yeah. where they said, yes, increasing amounts of aluminum from vaccines are associated with an increased risk of asthma. Yeah. Right. Now, that study did not have a zero. Right.

They never show, let's compare it to kids that didn't get any vaccines. It's always, well, the ones that got some, the more you got, the more is your asthma. Right. They never put in the zero. Where is zero at? What is the person, what is the average person that doesn't get the vaccine? So since we, you know, I've been saying this, we've all been saying this, you're sitting on databases at the CDC of the vaccine. VSD with 10 million people in it, tens of thousands of unvaccinated individuals.

We have, I mean, I'm pretty sure Doge, I'm pretty sure Elon has got an AI, we've got computer learning. It would not be hard now to like let computers. And by the way, I've said it. Maybe it's what you ate the day. Maybe there's things. Did you take Tylenol right after a vaccine? Like, so there's a lot of confounding issues that may be making the perfect, you know, storm in certain children, if you take it all off the table, you can't figure out what those are, right? You can't say one thing's not allowed in this conversation. Well, and I like the one senator who said, you know, our continued emphasis that, you know, vaccines are causing autism is getting in the way of progress. It's like, how are we progressing? I mean, to me, you walk into a room.

We've been that, right, right. You walk into a room, you know, there's a dead person, on the floor. They have a bullet wound. There's blood all over the place. And there's a smoking gun on the table. And we can investigate everything in the room except that smoking gun. I mean, that's kind of what they're asking us to do. Right. And I don't understand why that would get in the way of progress. Because guess what? There's no government funding going into the question of do vaccines a lot of them. We are, you know, 40 years into full protections of, you know, the vaccine program. no liability, no lawsuits, can't get to the bottom of it.

We have blocked the science since 2004. Vax, that was the last study ever looking at vaccines and autism. That was done in 2000, ended by 2004. So for the last 21, going to 21 years now, $0 spent on that investigation. So to their point, you're halting progress. Well, you have had the ball on your side of the team. You have been running your play, your way,

with the assumptions that vaccines don't cause autism, and all autism is doing this, and all you keep telling us is, we can't figure out what it is. Well, how about that ball behind your back? I'll just bring that around here and take a look at that again. Is it just maybe, somehow, some way, there's a new study that got brought up in the hearings

by Kennedy and is in exchange with Cassidy. To Cassidy's, to benefit him, he said, hold on a second, let me look at it really quick. Now, looking at any study over five minutes was whatever, it was, but I want to look at that because it came up this Mawson study. The vaccination neurodevelopment disorders, a study of nine-year-old children enrolled in Medicaid. So you've looked through this study just very quickly. What were they looking at? So this was a study of kids enrolled in Medicaid, nine-year-olds, enrolled in Medicaid in the state of Florida. So

47,000 kids, over 5,000 of them were completely unvaccinated. So, you know, this is Anthony And he published an article back in 2015, 2016. It was the first one that looked at the whole study, but it was 666 kids. It was a phone survey, and it got trashed. But it definitely showed a link between vaccines and autism. We're not signal if you. We're talking about looking for a signal. Is there a signal at all?

Is there anything here at all? So here's that old study, right? This is the first one he did. This is what he saw out of 666. I believe there were homeschool kids and their mothers were pulling. Yep. 30% more rhinitis in the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated. 30 fold, not 30%. Oh, 30 fold. Yeah. Okay. 3.9.

Yeah. What is fold being for those ways? That means 39 times. 39 times and 2 zeros, 3,900% of allergies more. Yeah. So, so that's, this is, you know, if you've had a vaccine, you're 39 times more like, or 30 times more likely to have an allergy. You're three point times, I'm sorry, three point times more likely to have an allergy. You're 30 times more likely to have alert. 30 times right now, okay.

And you're four times more likely to have ADHD. Four times more likely to have autism, three times more likely to have eczema, five times more likely of learning disability, and three point seven times more likely to have a neurodevelopment disorder. Now, I want to be the first one to say, because that study, as you said, got really beat up. They're like, it's only 660 kids, right?

66. I don't know why they couldn't have had it a couple more. Not a world's best number. number come on but I also want to point out as I showed the hepatitis B vaccine insert last week a hundred and forty seven children decided that that vaccine was safe so when they're screaming numbers I'm screaming numbers too 147 children a study is not enough to prove that a product is safe but now we have a new study by the same guy yeah so this study was over 47,000 kids they're all nine-year-olds in

the Medicaid system in Florida and that represents actually over 50% of the kids in Florida the oh 50% of the nine-year-old So of those 57,000, 5,000 were completely unvaccinated. Now, you know, they also looked at kids born term and kids born preterm. So one of the scary numbers off of this was kids that were born preterm had a risk of a neural development of delay of almost 40%. It was 39.7 or 8 or something like that. If they were vaccinated? Yes.

Well, this was all of them, whether they were vaccinated or not. Okay. It was all of them. But the, so number one, that's a crisis. So even the term kids, the overall number of neurodevelopmental delay was 27% for all of them. When you look at the kids that were unvaccinated, it was 11%. But it's still 11%. So this is what I'm trying to say.

If all you're going to do is research vaccines, you're missing the story. Yeah, 11 is still really high. It's toxicity, basically, is what's driving autism, right? It's environmental toxicity on a system that cannot detox adequately, and it's susceptible to that type of autoimmune encephalitis. So it's not just vaccines. There's other things. But the point is, 27% in the group that had been vaccinated and 11% in the kids that had not been vaccinated. So that's a big difference.

Here's a graph. Yeah. So this is where you get these numbers. So, you know, it's 2.7 times. Remember, we're looking at 47,000 kids in the vaccinated group. and 5,000 in the unvaccinated group. Is that enough to be statistically significant? Yeah, the P value, you know, we consider something statistically significant

if it has a P value of less than 0.05, maybe 0.01. These were like negative, they were less than 0.0001. So very, very statistically significant. Because that's what you can get with these kinds of numbers. So you're talking about almost three times the rate of autism, the rate of ADHD, talking three and a half times the rate of seizures. Now, you know, seizures are not something that we're better at diagnosing, right? I mean, kids have seizures, they don't have seizures.

But they also looked at tick disorders. They looked at learning disability, and that was about six and a half, sevenfold increased risk. And then you have, I'm sorry, learning disorders, six point eight, there you go. And then the risk of having any, you know, any neurodevelopmental delay was around threefold. And all of these numbers were worse. If you looked at pre-year-old, term infants. And an important thing here is, you know, if you're going to talk about vaccines and benefits of vaccines, I mean, we know with any medical intervention, there are people that it does nothing for them, and there are people that are harmed by them, and everybody in the middle is what you want to have happened. So it's the same with the vaccines. If you don't

have, you have people that don't respond to vaccines. I mean, we know that. There's a percentage of people that don't respond to vaccines. It makes sense that there's going to be a percentage of people that overreact. Overreact. Right? And those are probably people like because if the job of vaccine is to create inflammation which it is it is what if that inflammation happens in the brain i mean it seems just like such a simple question with burning all them i'm just like is how is this so far out of your frame of reference but it's because they have experts as bernie said my understanding made by the experts coming to my office is this is impossible right but again the experts are counting on those same 12 or 13 studies the experts

did not, or if they did look at this, they didn't tell Bernie about it. And they didn't print it so that you and I have seen it. Right. We can't find them. But the point is this is a large population-based studies. Okay. You can argue, hey, you know, it's a population study. Those are always one of the worst kinds of studies.

You can argue that it's Medicaid patients, so right away you have a different demographic, much higher rate of African-American kids and Hispanic kids. It's still that you have a control group inside of there. Like, I mean, you could say that if you were just saying, again, population norms, but against their own norms. You have a control group inside of the same Medicaid population. That kind of erases that. But it's also dose dependent, right?

Wasn't there sort of... Yeah, so that's the most damning thing of this whole study was they looked at just one vaccine increased your risk of... By the way, it was one visit? One visit. I'm sorry. I keep saying one vaccine. So, yeah, they were looking, the way they did the study, they looked at the number of vaccine

visits so if you had one vaccine visits so I'm assuming you're getting more than one vaccine right but the risk of just one vaccine visit increase your risk of autism by 1.7 fold so it's a 70% increased risk you have four vaccination visits right your risk went up to 1.9 if you had five or more visits you had 2.7 11 or more visits which is basically the schedule that's the full schedule you're up to 4.4 4.4 so this is what we call a dose-dependent curve right so when you have a dose-dependent curve, it's not just correlation, right? You know, correlation doesn't mean causation.

Right. It's not just correlation. When you have that dose-dependent curve, it appears to be causative. The same thing happened with the aluminum asthma study was the more aluminum they got, the higher the rate of the asthma, and it was a pretty nice map. And that was a CDC-funded study. Yeah. And that was from vaccine safety data-linked data.

Right. So, again, but when you see stuff like that, whether or not it's true. whether or not vaccines cause autism, you should be saying, whoa, we need to do some good studies, all right? Whoa, clearly there's the possibility that the science may not actually be settled. Right. Because there is a guy out there who is not, you know, may or may not be a fan, but is asking questions. When we look at this group and we cut it at nine years old, which means everyone that's going to be diagnosed would have been diagnosed, the full eight years old. Some of these studies is one of the cheats, right?

They do it really early. We haven't seen the full population. You're making judgments on three-year-olds, four-year-olds, eight-year-olds, and above now we have the full population. We know who we're talking about. This is looking at showing a dose-dependent curve has issues like, let me point them out. Let me point out some of the issues. As you said, population-based study, it's hard to, like, cut out all the confounding issues

that might have been there. We also are only looking at vaccine visits, so we don't know how many vaccines they got while they were in there. So it's not like super uber accurate. It wasn't like, we know when you got two vaccines. And then five, it was just visits.

So one of the confounding issues you could say is this might have proved that vaccines don't cause autism, visits with pediatricians do. Okay, everybody, he said that. I didn't say that. I'm obviously kidding, but those are the types of,

you know, that's how science works. But we're seeing something that deserves more attention. But, Del, I mean, they have the data. They did a study on type 1 diabetes and they did a study on asthma. Why didn't they do a study at autism? Right.

With the same data. Right. I mean, you have all the data right there. You do the same analysis. You just replace asthma with autism or ADD. He did it here. Like you see ticks. You see all the different categories.

Why is the CDC when they're in the asthma study going, while we're at it, just check autism too at the same time? Yeah. You have manpower. We're looking at it. They won't do it. They won't do it. They won't do it.

And so, you know, maybe they're under a mandate not to do it. Maybe they've done it and they already know the results and they don't want us to know that. But, you know, with this new administration, and it's not just administration. I mean, this whole Maha movement, this whole movement has woken people up. And I'm talking, we call them the OGs, you know, the old guards,

people that were there in the trenches from the very beginning when they were saying, I think my kid regressed after they got this vaccine. Oh, no, you're crazy. And, you know, they were gaslit and just ridiculed and all that. A lot of those people gave up. They gave up. They got tired of fighting.

And they gave up. You know what? This movement has woken those people up. And they brought them back into the fold. It's like, yes, we know. And this is really what MAPS is all about is we want to bring together practitioners who, and it's not just autism. And it's about everything because all the numbers have gone up.

You know, I went to medical school in 1981. Okay. All right, 1981. You look at the results of things from the 80s versus now. I mean, asthma 3.7 to 6.2 is 168% increase. Autoimmunity to 140% increase. You know, food allergy, 830% increase. And I love the asthma number.

I mean, the autism number, 28,000% increase since I was in medical school. That is crazy. And just... anyone that challenges. Right. And that says that's just diagnosing better. Right. And anybody that says it's genetic, let's look at Downs. Downs is a genetic disease. Look at the increase. 30%. Right. Okay. 30% increase. 0.1 to 0.13. Yep. So, I mean, that's, that tells you that it's not just autism. We have an epidemic of just childhood illness. And we know that, you know, chronic illnesses. We know all those numbers. And, you know, you want healthy adults. You want.

You want a healthy America, start with the kids. And that's really what we're trying to do with maps. Bring together practitioners that understand the way to health is not through a pharmaceutical, and I don't have anything against them. Do you use pharmaceuticals sometimes? I do. I do. Just making sure.

But, you know, the problem with a pharmaceutical is the toxicity of the pharmaceutical eventually catches up and exceeds the benefit of the pharmaceutical. I mean, we see this with statin drugs, right? If you have heart disease and I put you on a stanton drug, I will reduce your risk of having a heart attack by 30 to 40 percent. Not that that's a great number in my mind, but still, it's 30 to 40 percent reduction. Okay. If you then say, okay, you're reducing my risk of heart attack, that's great. So I take this medication for the rest of my life.

Does it increase my life expectancy? Now, technically the answer is yes, but according to a couple big studies, it's yes, two days and four days. Instead of dying on Monday, you die on Friday because you took a stanton for 20 years. I mean, that's not, that's the problem with pharmaceuticals. You're not getting the underlying cause. So MAPS is really all about, okay, you have asthma. Why does your kid have asthma? Did the asthma fairy visit one night and create asthma?

No, your child is asthma because the immune system is dysfunctional because there's something going out of the gut, the environment. You know, all these things that we look at as MAPS practitioners. And the thing about it is we've sort of resurrected. directed MAPS in the last two or three years because we know there's a need. You know, pediatricians don't, I mean, we were at the American Academy of Pediatrics Conference. Believe it or not, MAPS was that American? It did. This is like the godfather of all pediatric conferences, thousands of people there,

every single major vaccine manufacturers there. I had to take a little Valium those days, but I do, okay. But still, they're all there. And, you know, pediatricians come by and they were fascinated with what we're doing. It's like, wow, that's amazing. I don't have time for it. Can I just send all my patients to you? Right.

It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You know, there's only so many of me. How many maps doctors are there? You know, at this point, I can't even tell you. We have a membership of somewhere in the 1,000 to 1,500 range. We get maybe 3, 400 participants at every conference, but the number is doing this. Okay, good. So how many we have right now is not where we want to be.

I mean, basically, we want to maps doctor in every community. I'm kind of shocked, actually, not to make this about money or anything, but when autism's doing this, when asthma's doing this, when autoimmune diseases are doing this, you would think, you know, supply. If I'm a doctor, like looking for something I want to get into, there's plenty of business over there. Well, the, the, I mean, I'm not, I'm not to reduce it to that. No, no, I'm, I'm, I always say. How are there not more people? No, I always say, thank you, Bernie Sanders, that's job security. Right.

For me, right. Right. But the part of what we're trying to do is get, I can't imagine what it's like to be a pediatrician right now. I mean, you have 10, 15 minutes. You're just, you're, you know, you're a puppy mill. You're pushing vaccines. You know a kid has a runny nose. You're putting them antibiotics. You know you're going to diagnose sinusitis, put this kid on an antibiotic. You know they're going to be back in six months with sinusitis again, right? Right. I mean, that's the Casey Means story. Yeah. She was an E.NT surgeon and figured out, well, this is. surgery is going to work for a year or two, and then the problem's going to come back, because we haven't done anything for what's causing the problem in the first place.

So that's what we're trying to do to train these physicians. It's very difficult to go from a practice where you're a corporate doctor. You are working for a company, and you have quotas you have to meet, to walk away from that and say, time out. I'm going to talk to my patients. I'm going to figure out what's going on with them. I'm going to treat them at that level. I mean, it's the most, you know, fulfilling thing you can do as a doctor.

This is why we all became doctors is because we want to help patients recover and restore their health. MAPS is all about that. And people are coming to us. It's like going from being a meter made to a homicide detective. It's a big joke. But in the other way. We're trying to get people to live. I'm in the investigation side of it.

No, exactly. This isn't a science where it's just, oh, 15 minutes, you do this. like conveyor belt, you're slowing it down, you have to listen, every patient's different. I got to do a deep dive. We're going to do analysis. We're going to go through a slow process. We're now involved in a lifetime process of trying to work with you, not just cranking through the mills. It's what I meant by that. The investigation side of it. It is.

Probably not the best. Great metaphor. No, so we have, you know, again, we have people all of a sudden waking up and saying, wait a minute, you know, I remember that. what that was like to go to that root cause. Those are the people coming to Maps. We have, you know, and this is what I tell parents, because it's really hard to get the doctors. Parents can get the doctors, right?

You know, you need to go to a Maps Conference, because I promise you, if somebody comes to a Maps Conference, they're gonna get their minds blown. That's just what's gonna happen, because that's how we design it. They're gonna be enveloped in a family of people that are interested in the welfare and health of our children.

Wow. And I'm pretty sure that's why everybody, goes into pediatrics. It ain't for the money. Right. Right. It ain't for the money. You talk to any pediatrician. Yeah, I get really tired of that argument. Oh, the reason they're doing it is because they're getting paid. It's like, it's not that much. I've looked at it. Yeah. Money is not. Right. It's, it truly, and I meant that about all of the Bernie Sanders and all of them. There's a true passion for what they do. They really believe they're doing what's right. I do believe pediatricians are in there wanting to do what's best for for their patients.

they're just really, I think, misinformed by a lack, like a bold and all the statements are made. We unequivocally know this. No, you don't. You really don't. The science isn't there, unfortunately. Yeah, and the trouble with the human mind, I mean, if you say something enough times, you just believe it. Yeah. And so, you know, we call it the Church of Vaccines because safe and effective is not a scientifically proven point.

It's a belief system. Yeah. And maybe it's true, maybe it's not true, but nobody's proven that, right? And it's mind-blowing. I would say that it's a religious statement because nothing is perfectly safe and effective. And what I find shocking in any hearing or any conversation like this is, can we all admit it's not safe and effective for everybody? Right. Like, I mean, the question is safe and effective for how many or for what percentage.

And that's what they cannot say. They'll say most that it's not a sign. Well, and you can't, again, in medicine, everything is risk benefit, right? Because we know every intervention we do has a risk. Every pharmaceutical we prescribe has a toxicity. Right. You know, there's no free launch in that, right? So why is it in vaccines that we have something that you give it to a child and there's no potential for side effects?

I mean, they know their side effects, and they know that, they're taught that. Yeah. But they ignore them and they say, well, you know, we've been using these for how long and, you know, if the were horrible, we'd know by now. But how do you know that that's not at the root, not just of the autism epidemic, but of everything? You know, we need, you know, there's a group of physicians. We're our autism coalition. It's now called six layers.

It's six layers.org is their website. But what they're bent is, is to understand that we call it flipping the script. So the script is autism is genetic. There's nothing you can do about it. You do therapy, you do psychotropics, that's it. Flipping the script is, autism is a biochemical problem that is foisted on a system that can't handle the toxicity that it's exposed to. Whether those toxins are vaccines or something else, but that's autism, which means, A, autism is treatable, B, autism is preventable, all right?

So if we could do something simple, there's something called cerebfolate deficiency. It's a cause of seizures in kids. It's also one of the things that can cause non-speaking autism. And the answer is really, really high doses of folate. Okay, we're talking a B vitamin. We're not talking brain surgery, right? We're talking a B vitamin. And so we know about 70% of the kids on the autism spectrum

have autoimmune antibodies directed against the receptor that transports folate into the brain. Wow. Right? So wouldn't you like to know if your child has that? So you could start them on high dose folate like at birth or even better in utero, right? Right. Because frequently the moms have those antibodies, you know, while the child's in utero.

So if we can prevent it, this is 5.4 million people in the country have autism, right? It's the average cost of something like $2 or $3 million per person. So there is a financial incentive to do something about this because the numbers are doing this. They haven't changed. You know, we need to flip that script. It's not a, woes me, genetic disorder that we can do nothing about. It is something we can change. And that is what MAPS is all about.

And we need practitioners. We need an army. We don't. You know, we have a regiment right now. We need an army. If someone, first of all, do you take donations? Is there somewhere where someone go to help? Yeah, so MAPS is now, we are a nonprofit.

You can go to the MAPS.org, the MedMaps. website. We do have a donation link there, the QR code. But it's, again, medmaps.org is our website. Everything's on there. Medmaps. Medmaps.org. You'll know you have the right website. You can see you. There it is. Beautiful picture of me. Yes. Yes. So, and we also, you know, we have a conference coming up. We do two conferences in the spring and the fall. You know, like I tell people, this is Here we go, everybody. If you're out there and you're either a practitioner that is now waking up and saying, I am seeing many of these patients and I want to know, is there something I can do about it,

you want to be at this conference. If you're a parent that has been getting the run around and not really have doctors that know what to tell you, here's where you go, it's March 13th through the 15th, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. I'll tell you, Dr. New, I think this is my favorite conversation. I've ever had on this topic. You know, it's such a third rail, like coming into it. Like I just don't want to say the wrong thing. I know.

I don't want this, like we've got Robert Kennedy Jr.'s in the middle of hearings. We don't want anyone, like, everyone is so sensitive around it. It's, you know, would you say 2.8% now? Yeah. Well, yeah, it's around 2.8%. In that study, I think it was 2.6%. But it's 1 in 36. It's 2.8%.

Wow. So you, you, we have to do something, right? I mean, there's going to come a point when, and I always say, you know, they say, well, are you going to retire? I say, not that we fix this problem because who the heck's going to pay for my Medicare? Right, right. It's becoming very personal for me, right? Because we're not going to have people that can work. We're not going to have people that can staff the military.

We're not going to have people that can practice medicine, right? Because you need a skill set that you're not necessarily going to have. well, if you're on the spectrum. So we need to do something about that. And that's really what we're passionate about. We're passionate about teaching this to people. We're passionate about convincing parents. Look, there are alternatives.

Don't listen to what your doctor's saying. And what they're saying is all you can do is ABA therapy and prepare for a long-term nursing home. Yeah. No, I mean, these kids are in there. We can recover them. And really for the government, it should be about prevention. Yes.

Right? You don't hear about spina bifida anymore because people figured out folate deficiency caused that. So they put folate in all the pregnancy prenatal vitamins, right? That's why that went away. Well, what if there's something like that for autism that we could get of every pregnant woman that would prevent autism? That's the kind of science we need. Then we won't have to have these arguments about do vaccines cause autism or not, right? Because once we have the science, once we have the knowledge, you know, you, know better, you do better. And then we can discuss the merits of each vaccine individually,

right, rather than saying we're going to do this whole schedule, we're going to do nothing. Right. So, but no, I appreciate being here. I appreciate the platform you've created. I appreciate the work you're doing. But we need to take care of these kids. That's really what we're all about. Dr. James Newman's wonder. Really awesome work. Thanks. Keep it up. I know today, I know we just inspired more doctors to get involved. So thank you for making that happen.