The Highwire with Del Bigtree - MARY HOLLAND ON RFK JR.’S PROGRESS

Episode Date: April 2, 2025

CEO, Children’s Health Defense CEO, Mary Holland, Esq., discusses the long road she and Del have shared fighting for medical freedom and the bright future ahead for the movement with Robert F Kennedy, Jr. at the helm of HHS.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

Just a couple of days ago earlier this week, Mary Holland, the director and CEO of Children's Health Defense, dropped by and take a look at the studios, and we had a nice conversation about Robert Kennedy, June. What she thinks of the first 30 days. I mean, she was there working with Children's Health Defense and has known Bobby for years as I have. I wanted to just see what she felt about the lay of the land and what was going on. It's a huge part of what we're all involved with right now. Are we going to be successful or are we not? How are we going to be successful? Are we going to be critical? Are we going to be positive?

All of those things are very important. And there's no one better to talk about it with than Mary Holland. If you don't know who that is, then you haven't been paying attention. Here's Mary Holland. Mary Holland. Mary Holland, President and General Counsel of Children's Health Defense. She's the author of a new book called Vaccine Epidemic. A research scholar at NYU's School of Law. She has spoken in Congress, state legislators, internationally and informed consent. and vaccination. My interest in this as a lawyer and as an advocate stems from my personal experience,

I watched a child reverse in their development. I have a young adult son who regressed after getting his MMR shot and they lose speech. They lose certain digestive ability. They become panic-stricken with any kind of change in the routine. It was horrifying. What happened to my son is what I've heard happened

to thousands of parents. What then should happen is there should be rigorous science that science hasn't been done. The risk and death profile of these injections is unprecedented. We must demand that we will not be experimented on. It is inconceivable to me that an 11-year-old can adequately research and understand

the potential benefit to risks of a COVID-tot. This is nonsense. This is the pharmaceutical industry coming in and exploiting children. What Dr. Offutt and Professor Reese are suggesting that there should be no free consent for vaccination. I think that's a very serious departure from medical ethics, and we have to look at it for what it is.

This is not just about tort liability, it's about informed consent. We were de-platform from Facebook. We were de-platform for Twitter. We have already, in the last four years, seen the creation of a censorship industrial complex, and it must stop. We live in dangerous times if world governments

and their collaborators continue to flout the Nuremberg Code and to censor those of us who criticize the big lie, we know where this leads. It leads to atrocities, it leads to a legacy of ashes. Well, it's my honor and absolute pleasure to be joined now by the president, CEO of Children's Health Defense, Mary Holland. Great to be here. It's really great to have you here, Mary.

You know, we go way back. I've been, you know, stood on stages with you for years. Probably the big one when we blew our lungs out in New Jersey. Oh, New Jersey. Unforgetable, right? Just an incredible moment. I honestly think looking back at that, that felt to me, it felt like we won the World Series that night in many ways. And to have, and for people that maybe aren't aware, we were, you know, it was several weeks of protesting the removal, the religious

exemption there and that last and Bobby would go and we thought that would be the last day and then it was still going and then I would go and then you would go and finally you and I landed there the final day the final hours to vote on that and we managed to keep the one there's like one remaining vote is one vote from voting we had I think they said between five 10,000 maybe even 15,000 people some people said all chanting outside of the capital all day long I blew out my lungs but it felt like in that moment we'd turned a corner. I think we did. We all called it the Battle of Trenton.

Yeah. And it was freezing cold, right? And we were sort of leading the chance. You were leading the chance. No, we were. We were both standing there. And we were both standing there at the front of the queue. And then we got that sign from inside, right?

And, you know, the flag was upside down, and then they let us know that we won, right? We pushed back that repeal. And then within two months were the lockdowns, right? Within two months was COVID. And who knows whether there was a connection there or not, but it did feel like that was a big win. And the people were with us. And we showed that to the world. Yeah.

I mean, and that was New Jersey, which is really the pharma. I mean, there's a state that is a pharmaceutical capital of this country. Of the world, I think of the world, literally, of like the different major global brands there in New Jersey. Yeah. It was really something. And there were some courageous lawmakers who did pay a price, right? Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah, the lost their positions, but so did the main person pushing that bill lost.

Yeah, and that's the guy who came in. I think he paid like $200 for his campaign, and he won, and he's now looking at higher office. So pretty exciting. Yeah, really amazing. But you've been at this, I mean, probably since the birth of your son, right? Not birth, but my son is now in his late 20s, and he regressed after the MMR. He'd gotten the thimerosol shots in the run-up. So I'm a lawyer by training and, you know, sort of said, what can I do after really focusing on biomed?

And it was like, oh, my God, these laws are insane, right? We're never going to be in good shape with these laws because you can be compelled. And then you can't go to court. And so if something goes wrong, there's no feedback loop. So it was pretty clear pretty early on of like, we better get mobilized here. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a, what kind of legal system is that?

Yeah, it's not a legal system. It's not a legal system, right? And so, you know, working with you and Bobby and Brian Hooker and Lynn Redwood and Laura Bono and just going around the country and speaking to state legislation, you've got to keep a religious exemption. That's the only tiny bit of choice people have. You have to have real medical exemptions. And then we have to have free choice, right? And informed consent is about free choice.

It's not about compulsion. So we've been at this a long time. I do feel like like 2019 and Trenton was an inflection point, we're definitely at an inflection point right now. You know, it's been hard. I'll be honest with you, as I'm going to tell you, we've had our ups and down. Yes, we have. It's been exhausting. In the movement and out.

Yes, it's been exhausting in many ways. But listen, I really feel like we're riding a wave right now. You know, we have Bobby Kennedy as HHS secretary. Amazing. None of us could have predicted that. I don't think Bobby could have predicted that. Like, that's so incredible. And, you know, there's headwaters there or headwinds there.

But, yeah, but this is really about the kids. This is not about us. This is about people coming into this world, and they deserve to have the best start possible. And the program we have just is not backed by science. It's not backed by science. It's not based on science. There's no justice in it.

So we ought to change it. Before we get into HHS and Bobby being there, I always think of, I mean, you and Bobby and CHD, and even before that World Mercury Project, you've always been so well connected. How did you first meet? You know, it's a funny question. And so I was in New York City, and some of my parent colleagues of vaccine-indered children had figured out that Bobby might be an ally at Pace Law School.

Okay. And so we went ahead pretty much without Bobby's assistance to get a little bit of money from J.B. Handley to do research in the decisions of the vaccine injury compensation program. We brought in some law students, which are going through it. And then we went to the law review and they had said, oh, yes, we want to publish your article. And then, of course, when they saw it, you know, it basically shows that the government knows that vaccines cause autism. They were like, no, we've sort of thought again. We don't really want to publish your article. I think that's when I went to Bobby.

And I was like, we need your help here. And Bobby helped. And we was also working on the thimericamp book. So I was able to give him a little bit of support on that. He had started. I wasn't in the very first. The very first was sort of Lynn, Redwood, and Laura Bono, and Safe Minds. And I sort of admired them from afar, but I was sort of in the second group, if you would.

And we were really focused on how outrageous this compensation program is, that it's denying people compensation when they absolutely know that it's merited. Yeah. Yeah, so I got to know Bobby when he was at Pace, and then I was invited onto the board at Children's Health Defense, where it's just changing its name for more here in 2018. And then my law school where I was writing articles and going and speaking in state legislature, they sort of let me know of like, you know, we love you.

We want you to keep teaching. But you better like never say that you work at NYU when you talk about vaccines. And just by the way, you can't do any research with our research assistants. Don't use any of our, you know, any of the assets here, like the internet, like the telephone. And I was like, you know, I think it's time. Right. So that was a big sign. That was like in the spring of 2019.

And I had always wanted to work full time for the movement, but it really hadn't really been feasible. So I came to CHD as general counsel. And then beginning of 2021, I took over as president. Yeah. How do you think, I mean, you were part of the campaign, as was I at some points, and we crossed paths there. And as you said, none of us could have imagined this ending,

here. I think we all agreed running for president. I would never have supported him if I didn't think he had a shot. I was going to take some wild set of circumstances we knew. But when I was, you know, in the Oval Office and Bobby was swearing in, I just remember thinking, like, this is even sweeter than if he was being sworn in as president. I so totally agree, Del, because this is really what he has been focused on for 20 years. It really is. We've got to stop making kids sick. We've got to put our kids ahead of our hatred for one another politically. This is his mission. This is what he dreamed about. This is what he asked God to help him do. So I agree with you. I mean, who knows what's ahead. Not that he wouldn't be the most amazing president.

Not what he wouldn't be. Not that I didn't support him the president. 100%. But I think this is what he dreamed about. This is where his expertise is. This is where he has a network. This is where he really does have background. So I'm thrilled that he's in this position.

And as you and I've said, it's not going to be easy. People need to understand that he can't do everything overnight that he wants to do. I think anybody who reads what he's written over the last, when he was at Children's Health Defense, he wrote Letter to Liberals, the real Anthony Fauci, the Wuhan cover-up, and we, you know, promoted Thymarisol. And then I read a couple books since he's been on the campaign, American Values, the real Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Anybody who reads these books really has a deep understanding of where this man is coming from, He really does have a vision of a holistic health for children and real informed consent.

I mean, that's just what he believes. Is it hard? I mean, when you see, there's a lot of comments. And I've talked about it on the show. I said, look, Bobby would be the first one to say this is a free country, judge, you know, as he will. But knowing how hard we've worked, how hard he's worked, and then you see some people feel like they're really getting let down. For instance, let's talk about it. So the language around the measles statement, you know, you finally, one of the first statements

coming out of the administration and, of course, from HHS secretary, and it appeared to be promoting, you know, the use of MMR vaccine, but also vitamins. What was your initial reaction? DEL, I was very closely dealing with the situation in California in 2015 and New York in 2019, which are the last two times they ran the measles playbook, right, that results in the repeal of religious exemptions. And we had that threat in Hawaii of repealing the religious exemption. So for me, the fact that Bobby did not follow the narrative, everybody stay home and get your

MMR and get two or three MMRs, that's not what he did. He said, you have a choice. MMR can stop measles. It can prevent measles. That's true. It can. And it's absolutely up to you. And there was nothing about lock yourselves in your house.

house until you've had your MMR vaccine. It was radically different than what happened the last two go rounds. So are some of our people disappointed that he would in fact say an MMR vaccine, Measles, Mons, Rebell can prevent measles? I understand that. It's a very injurious vaccine. It's the one that really tipped my child over the edge. I get it. It's not a good vaccine. It's three live viruses. You'd never encounter that in nature at one time. It's a problem, but it's the only vaccine that is out there, and it is somewhat effective against measles. I mean, that's a problem. I mean, that's a problem. I mean, That's the truth. So to me, Bobby Kennedy did what he had to do, and he stood in the truth.

What's most important is he acknowledged you have a choice. It is a personal decision. No head of health services or president has ever really, you know, really drilled in that message in the context of an outbreak. Yeah. I remember we were in a think tank, you and I, a bunch of great thinkers. Was it maybe North Carolina several years ago? Yeah, it was a couple of

2019. And I remember one of the things we were all, because it was a bunch of things. Everyone comes from different positions. I, you know, wasn't vaccinated. I don't vaccinate my kids, so I don't have an injury story. There was injury, families, parents there. And I remember we were all trying to come to, you know, what is it we all agree on?

If we're all gonna be fighting for this thing, what is it that we would say that's absolutely the fight? And a lot of discussions, I think it's like half a day, but it really came down to what we all agreed was the right to choose. No mandates. Yeah, no mandate. No mandates. I say if there's no choice, it's not medicine.

You know, coercion is not medicine. Medicine is first do no harm. You have to have the consent of a person to engage in any kind of medical intervention. It just doesn't make sense otherwise. And it's obviously not for the individual's benefit. It's for the society's benefit, which is social control, it's societal control. So no mandates, you know, no coercion. We've got to get away from that.

That is not medicine for the 21st century. Dave Weldon. Oh, such a disappointment. It's such a disappointment. I mean, just, I mean, and I, what's so frustrating is that here's a guy that I think he was still giving vaccines. I think he's still a doctor. He gives vaccines.

He gives vaccines. And I know he locked up with Cassidy, and I don't want to get to, like in the name calling, but simply because you're like, I'll look at it. I will have said for decades, I will look at this connection between vaccines and autism and that just somehow. Yeah, it's so interesting that that is the flashpoint, Del. They've been telling us, you know, since Andy Wakefield, since, for 20 years, they've been telling us, vaccines don't cause autism, which doesn't mean anything, right?

There's a gazillion types of vaccines. There's a gazillion brands of autism. Right, exactly. It's a nonsense statement. It is an absolutely nonsense statement. But that's what they're going to live and die in. And I think that article from Reuters that got picked up in the New York Times about, oh my God, Weldon's going to do a study and it's been debunked.

And, you know, Cassidy's against it. I don't really think that that was from legitimate sources would be my guess. I agree. You know, that was a plant to go out. Well, because I was like, ah, this is a hit piece. Yeah, exactly. And it was.

To attack Weldon. It did work. It worked. It's a huge disappointment because Dave Weldon, I remember going to DC early in my journey to hear Dave Weldon speak at a National Vaccine Information Center conference. And he spoke so eloquently of like, we've got to look at this. He had bills in Congress with a Democratic member.

to just investigate, to do a prospective study, to do what we've been saying for 20 years has to be done. This is a common sense doctor who knows his way around D.C. So it's a big blow. It's a big blow that he didn't get in. But, you know, what he wrote, his letter to me was very instructive. And I think he wrote it off the cuff when, you know, they said, you're not going for your confirmation hearing tomorrow. He basically said it's vaccines and autism. Yeah.

And we know, Dell, that, you know, vaccines not just autism, right? We know that vaccines set children up for all kinds of real chronic health conditions, allergies, asthma, ADHD, all kinds of problems, you know, bipraxia, dyspraxia. So they're guarding it. This is a racket, right? Pharma knows. This is like just the trigger point and then clients for life. So what's amazing about it?

And I think the argument from Bernie Sanders, Warren, Cassidy, you know, those is this has been decided. You know, there's a mountain of evidence, which, you know, I've said, There's in a mountain. There's not a hill. There's not a mohat level. There's really not a whole lot there. And there's so much science now in studies showing a connection. But no matter what, what I think is shocking is that it's literally the definition of insanity.

Our government is losing ground on this. They know they have. They've lost this battle. It's over. I agree. People are not vaccinating now. They are really starting to question it. They don't trust the CDC all-time low.

And they somehow believe if they just stick to the talk. point, vaccines are safe and effective. They do not cause autism, that somehow are you going to get out of this? I know. I mean, you would hope they would recognize that getting thoughtful people in that will do proper science, that if they're right and vaccines don't cause autism, you will finally end this forever. And, I mean, I guess, I mean, I know for a fact, if Bobby finally does the well-powered steps done the way that we've always wanted them done, and it comes out, and as it turns out, vaccines aren't implicated, he'd be the first one to say it. 100%. And, you know, the government is sitting on mountains of data that they've only given

us a mole hill, which is just related to MMR and thimerosal, lousy studies, really lousy studies. They haven't done what needs to be done. And I do think that we do know there's data in this vaccine safety data link. And one of Bobby's driving motivations is let's open that up. We think that's 10 million records. It's going to tell us what we need to know. That's it. It's like, who's healthy and who's sick?

It's that simple. We've got AI now. It probably won't take very long for GROC 3 to figure out what's going on there. You know? So of the things that he's been in just over 30 days now. But amazing. I mean, in some amazing things like Operation Storic Speed, right, looking at baby food, something that's, you know, these heavy metal, these reports that kept coming out, like piles of sugar. Yeah, but lead, can be.

I mean, not looked at by Congress since the late 90s. Right. Crazy. Yeah. Now, I mean, I think he's done for whatever it is, I don't even know if it's 30 days, to be honest with you, Dell, but it's not very long. He's overtly looking at SRIs, I'm going to look at geoengineering, I'm going to look at electromagnetic radio.

Who the hell has ever done that before? Cell phone, statements on cell phones, and watch the attacks on even that, like looking at it. Like, who would not want studies to be done and finding out that you mean there haven't been any studies done on this? You know, it's just money, you know, industry doesn't want people to scrutinize this stuff. And he hasn't backed down on vaccines for people who are disappointed that he hasn't ended, you know, the childhood schedule or that, you know, he said, you know, you can take an MMR. He has not backed down.

He is saying, we're going to look at this, you know, we're going to look at everything. So, you know, he's up against a lot. He doesn't have his full team assembled yet. But I'm, you know, he's working hard. He is a really hard worker, as you know, Dahl from the campaign. This guy, you know, doesn't, he does sleep some, but he really doesn't stop thinking about these things that he cares deeply, deeply about. I loved what he said most recently is, you know, healthy people have a thousand dreams. A sick person has but one.

Over half of our kids, that means over half of our kids have just but one dream. How tragic is that? Which means they don't have the American dream. They're not pursuing anything other than trying to get through the day and figure out how to feel better. Better, yeah. So, you know, I think we're blessed that Bobby's in office, and I think, you know, those of us in this movement have every good reason to support what he's doing. If it turns out in one year, he's gotten nothing done, which I can't imagine, well then, okay, then let's, you know, get somebody else. But we've got to give this guy a chance. And I think he's showing that he's going to go after all the things we care about. But politics is the art of the possible. He is not.

in a dream world where everybody suddenly going to line up and go, oh, yeah, I'm going to give away my trillion dollars. You know, it's just not how it works. Yeah. Yeah, well, it's amazing. You've been such a, you know, supporting person in his life. And as we said, this is an amazing moment. So much where what is CHD focused on now that you've got? Because, I mean, I've had the concern, you know, I think we all do that, you know, the movement, if you will, behind it, that's gotten Bobby there. We'll just say, all right, well, he's inside the president. He's inside the White House and we're good. We can all go back to sleep.

And, you know, we still have a lot of work. Oh, my gosh. Where are you focused? Absolutely not. You know, Bobby can't do what he's going to do alone. We have to, there has to be a moving behind him. And I'm so glad that we're here together, Del, to project that we are all here as part of the health free movement.

We're all part of the Make America Healthy again. Yeah. We're here to support Bobby's agenda to the extent that it aligns with us and it does at this point. So I'm all in on that. We really sort of stepped out of our original lane during COVID because we, because we, We had to, right? Because we were the victims like you of censorship. Yeah. Because these experimental shots were being pushed on the whole population from top to bottom, the age it all the way down to six months.

So we really felt like we had to step into that COVID space and just deal with everybody. Now that Knockwood, a lot of the emphasis on that has receded, the masks, the testing, the experimental shots. People aren't taking them. We're refocusing on Children Dell. It's all about Children's. health. If we can protect the children who are the most vulnerable, we'll protect everybody. Yeah. Right? So we're really refocused again, not just on vaccines, but that's absolutely our primary focus. I'm thrilled that Maha is really taking on food. That's great, but I think other people can take on food. Not many groups have really tackled like ICANN and CHD have really the vaccine. And so we're going to stick on vaccines. We also have really been hard at work

on electromagnetic radiation. You have. That is a really important area. We started this back in 2019, and we're now pursuing really groundbreaking litigation in this space. We tried at the state level without much success. So we're now starting a challenge called 704 No More, which is Section 704 of the Telecommunications Act, to really go after federal preemption. It cannot be, but local cities and state governments can't control their own health of their own citizens. It just can't be. So we're working with a broad coalition on that.

We've also started to look at geoengineering, to really look at what is the impact of what their spring. What are they spraying? Why are they spraying it? Is this something that the governed have consented to? So we focus on vaccines and very much the childhood schedule, but we're also looking at these other issues that absolutely impact health. If people want to donate or see the work that you're doing, where's the best website to go? Come to children'shealthdefense.org, and that will take you to lots and lots of different pathways. Fantastic. It's great just having you in the fight. You are truly a warrior. And just keep up the good. good work. Thank you for having me, tell. Thank you for your courage.