The Highwire with Del Bigtree - UNPRECEDENTED FAA LOWERS BAR FOR PILOT HEART HEALTH

Episode Date: February 18, 2023

Leave a ReplyLeave a Reply You must Register or Login to post a comment.Airline pilot and co-founder of US Freedom Flyers, Josh Yoder, and Clinical Cardiologist, Dr. Thomas Levy, join Del to discuss the recent FAA change to the heart test limits and the coincidental timing of the change coming amid increasing concerns over myocarditis from the COVID-19 vaccine. https://www.peakenergy.com/ https://www.givesendgo.com/usff #USFF #USFreemdomFlyers #JoshYoder #myocarditis #DrThomasLevyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-highwire-with-del-bigtree--3620606/support.

As we look back now, and much of this COVID pandemic is in our rearview mirror. It hasn't completely gone away. We're waiting for the pandemic to fully, you know, come to a close here in America. But now we have to think about, you know, all those that, you know, got vaccinated, whether it was on purpose or they were forced to do it. They, you know, ended up sort of giving into the pressures from the work or the president of the United States, for that matter. And in many ways, I've said it from the beginning. I'm not here to eradicate vaccines from the planet.

That's not what I feel like my mission is. My mission is to make sure that everybody always has a choice when it comes to their body, what goes into it. I am all, you know, about ending mandates. We're going to keep focusing on that with our legal team and working towards that end. But now, and when I think about that, when I think about, like, what it means to be free and to live and let live, in most circumstances, you know, you want to get the vaccine, that's your deal. But what happens if some of the people that, you know, went along with that or were forced to get that vaccine, you know, could actually influence our lives?

I think this is a growing story and something we're going to visit today because remember, one of the mandates was on our airlines. And it looked something like this. The Biden administration says companies have until after the holidays to get their staff vaccinated. Most major carriers have said they will follow Biden's rule. United Airlines is in the process of firing hundreds of employees who are refusing to comply with the mandate to get vaccinated. Today is the first day for unpaid leave for United Airlines employees. Now thousands of them around the country are having to figure out ways to support themselves and their families because they decided not to get vaccinated. The airline says it's working to find jobs where the exempt employees don't have to come face to face with customers. Otherwise, they can take unpaid leave until it's safe for them to come back to their current position.

While it remains to be seen after the holidays, this group says there are employees willing to lose their careers before they lose their rights to medical freedom. I am all for medical freedom of choice, and that's what we're fighting for. I'm an American Airlines flight attendant. I've been flying for 29 years, and I don't want to lose my job. I'm here out here representing my company and all of us that are fighting for freedom. I don't want to lose my job over these mandates. I find it extremely ironic that a year ago we were essential workers. Now we're deemed unessential, and we can be fired because we don't take a shot. Pilots who have raised questions about these mandates have been, as noted, dismissed as criminals, terrorists.

My husband is a captain of the 737 for American Airlines. Shame on you for not backing the pilots. No pilots, no fly. My husband loves his job, wants to continue doing his job, but does not want to take this shot. shot. Goodness sake, we fought a revolution over a 2% T tax. I don't want to force an experimental vaccine into my body. I don't think so.

I believe in freedom, and I'm here to support the freedom of my fellow employees and all people across this country. I'm not going to take a mandate. I'm not going to be coerced into doing something that I don't believe in. I'm afraid that if we continue down this path, at some point it's going to end in catastrophe. Well, obviously, we've been covering this topic from the beginning here on the high wire. And you know if you watch this show, one of the things I'll say is, you know, I'm all about freedom. Live and let live.

If you want to get a vaccine, go right ahead. If you don't, you shouldn't have to. And I will fight for all those rights. You should always have the right to choose. But in this situation, we're talking about a mandate that forced people that didn't want to be getting the vaccination to get it in order to keep their jobs. Now, many of those restrictions have been lifted. Pilots in some airlines are getting their jobs back. Others are still fighting to get them back.

But there's a bigger question, I think. In most situations, well, you're free to get the vaccine. It doesn't affect my life whether or not you got it. But when it comes to pilots, is it possible that the decision they made or the one that was forced upon them could be affecting all of us? This really came to light over the last, just over a week, where I've been seeing memes and texts and things going out talking about the fact that the FAA just changed its guidelines

reading EKGs on pilots that are getting physicals. we've been seeing, apparently they've moved it from a 0.2 second interval to a 0.3 second interval. Now, I've seen the memes and the discussions on this, but I don't really know exactly what that means, which is why I'm joined now by my guest, Josh Yoder from U.S. Freedom Flyers and cardiologist Dr. Thomas Levy. You've been a cardiologist for 40 years. You're also the medical advisor for the U.S. Freedom Flyers. Josh, just to begin with, to sort of set the stage with because you've been on our show before, in some ways this conversation is leading to concerns that you have had from the beginning. What happens to our health? What happens if we, you know, have some sort of demise to our health?

We have hundreds of people in our hands, literally, when we fly. Were you getting any traction on that conversation with the airlines as you were having it throughout this pandemic and these mandates? Yeah, that's right, Dell, as far as traction, I mean, we got traction back in the beginning when we were able to push those mandates back. When they realized that about 20% of their workforce wasn't going to tolerate this very totalitarian mandate, they pushed the mandate from November 24th back to January 4th, which gave us more momentum, gave us more time to organize. But unfortunately, there were so many people that were coerced and threatened into getting these vaccines. We're now seeing the fallout, the medical fallout, and it's very concerning. Now, Dr. Levy, what does this mean?

A 0.2 interval to 0.3, or sometimes I'm reading it as 200 milliseconds to 300 milliseconds. This change. First of all, are we seeing this change in sort of the baseline acceptable level in any other areas of medicine? Is this been a broad change in all people getting their hearts looked at? Not at all. This is a single arbitrary decision on the part of the FAA to move the goalpost back so that what was previously clearly abnormal is now considered, if not abnormal, not worthy of additional testing. And that ultimately is, I think, what we come to, I can't completely read what the FAA is thinking and doing. Right, right.

But the logical conclusion is, why would you suddenly change an EKG perhaps? that's been set for 100 years and has been the standard by which cardiologists have read EKGs and how we understand the conduction system of the heart, why would they suddenly in the last few months of the pandemic, after which a lot of people have had COVID, after which a lot of people have received vaccines, both of which can put chronic spike protein presence into your body, either one or both. Why would they suddenly move this back unless they were obviously getting a whole lot more people who are either pilots or potential pilots now have this aggravating new change on their EKG and they don't want to be bothered with testing? The problem is yes, a person as they get older can gradually develop this change. But when you have en masse a whole definable population where a substantial number of people, all of a sudden, along that PR interval, that indicates a good possibility of significant conduction system disease in the heart. And what does that mean?

That means an increased chance of arrhythmia, that means an increased chance of heart block and going either into a simple or a fatal arrhythmia. And it's also been clearly associated with in this one study at Harvard, a 50% increase in mortality of all causes. So this is serious business. And it doesn't mean anybody's likely to drop dead as a rule. Right. But as you said with Josh, we're dealing with planes full of people here.

And we can't be monkeying around with the heart like this. We had before the pandemic as a cardiologist an entity called myocarditis. Right. Mio muscle, cardio heartitis inflammation. inflammation of the heart muscle. In 40 years as a cardiologist, 15 years actively practicing many years ago, high volume of referrals, I saw one case of myocarditis in my life, in my professional career. Now it's routine for many cardiologists to have a number of these patients on board.

What happened? What happened is we have two different diseases. Before the pandemic, before we had vaccines, before we had people who had chronic COVID, we had some people who were just unlucky enough to contract a virus that liked their heart. Right. Okay. Sort of attack their heart. It's a rare event.

You get over it or you don't get over it. It wasn't a whole lot that medicine could do. Right. Okay. You're either your immune system kicked in or it didn't. Now, and that's all it was, just simple and significant. Now we have a situation that's twofold in the myocarditis of the pandemic, strictly mediated by spike protein, that's the part of the COVID pathogen that allows it to be inserted inside

the cell and then multiply. You have evidence that there's ongoing myocardial inflammation due to the spike protein, and also at the same time ongoing inflammation of the blood vessels feeding the heart and elsewhere through the body, causing an increased problem toward coagulability and blood clots. But the bottom line is, especially when you prolong this period, when somebody has had chronic COVID, say, for months and even years now, more than a year, many people, they can have a certain degree of burnout. And they have a test that's very sensitive for myocarditis when the muscles become inflamed, they release a little bit of a protein called Tropic.

Right, which is evidence of the heart muscle breaking down. Right. That should never be abnormal. And they already, by my observation, a lot of docs and cardiologists are sort of just not wanting to pay attention to these slight elevations of troponin. But these slight elevations of troponin, especially after somebody has been sick for an extended period of time, can indicate potentially a deadly degree. of inflammation and a focal part of the heart that affects the conduction system. Right. And the problem is heart cells are electrically active cells and when you put them in a situation where they lose blood supply or they become inflamed, they become electrically unstable.

And so football player, pilot, you have stressful situations, a sudden surge of adrenaline or epinephrine, and next thing you know, that irritable pack of cells in the heart throw extra beats and you could go in you could have a benign abnormal heart rhythm or you could have a deadly heart rhythm so this needs to be a paid attention to in my professional opinion not just the pilots but I think everybody should get a tropon in the D-dimer and doggone sure it's not abnormal because there do exist a subset of people where they pretty much come back to clinical normalcy but they still have this low-grade myocarditis that

needs to be knocked out completely and by knocked out completely I mean bring those tests back into the normal range right and nobody should be satisfied with not knowing that it's either normal or that it's abnormal and you bring it back to the normal range and if you wasted your money and you had normal tests great because I'm afraid we have more crap down the road And if something else comes up and you start feeling sick, you want to recheck those tests and see if you've reacquired spike protein by some mechanism. There's speculation about how that can happen. But the bottom line is, if you're fortunate enough to have had the vaccine but not have had complications, count your blessings.

but by all means, my advice would be don't take another dose of the spike protein, which is what a booster shot is. Right. Okay? The booster shot, when you put more spike protein, where maybe the information is right there. Whether or not people want to argue on whether the vaccine is worse than the virus itself, you're very, you know, very clearly stating, once you've caught it naturally, you've caught it, you've had it, your body's really fighting it off. With a vaccine, you keep injecting yourself with these spike proteins over and over and over again. That's not happening to a person that's naturally infected and gotten through it. And since we're seeing people getting naturally infected after having gotten the vaccine, that's another dose.

So really what we're seeing is an increased dose load of spike protein that we know causes this problem amongst the vaccine. Josh, you know, very quickly, he was talking about, you know, checking troponin levels and looking for myocarditis. to your knowledge, and I know this is something that you're really working at, we should have the pilots, you know, getting a test to see if they're suffering from myocarditis. Is there, is that happening yet with the airlines? It's not happening. We've actually tried to start a dialogue with the Federal Aviation Administration. And what they came back with is a complete denial that there's any issues whatsoever with vaccine injuries or pilot incapacitation. So for a federal oversight agency that won't even acknowledge that we have a problem, they're not going to take any steps. to one look for it or two to treat it and that's what we're doing at US Freedom Flyers is seeking to find these these pilots help I can tell you my my phone rings every single week almost every day I have a pilot calling me with cardiac issues or they're afraid that they have them or you know neurological

dysfunction is also very common and dr. Levy has been kind enough to work with many of these pilots and and refer them out to clinics in different places that are really making a fundamental difference for these people so the FAA to say there's no issue is a complete lack of acknowledgement of the elephant that's in the room. Pilots themselves have been contacting the FAA saying, look, I'm having cardiac issues and it happened from the vaccine and yet they won't listen. I see these statements being made and I don't know if you can verify them where the rate of deaths among pilots has increased over the last couple of years, you know, even when we're through COVID. I mean, I'm not

going to ask you. I'm sure many of much of that's anecdotal and I know that the people talking to you are doing that, you know, in privacy. But would you say that there are, pilots at a higher risk is this conversation happening among pilots so they're starting to talk to each other saying a little nervous it is happening and I know you know many cases one was Captain Will Wolf he was American Airlines captain you know his wife has been very vocal about what happened to Captain Will Wolf he was a healthy guy got the J&J shot and you know he was dead within days I've had a brain bleed that's just one of many cases that have come out obviously Captain Bob Snow has

been at show you he has been for those that don't remember Captain Bob Snow was on our show. He managed to land his plane, got just as he was stepping off the plane and then collapsed and has had major heart issues ever since. And, you know, pretty clear case of an issue there. And other pilots like pilot Cody Flint, who was an agricultural pilot down in Mississippi, you know, he passed out while flying his aircraft. Both of his inner ears ruptured at the same time. And there's now four specialists, four doctors, they're saying conclusively, this was from the vaccine. It had nothing to do with anything else. that he was a perfectly healthy male and I've just one you know those are just a few

of many stories man just in the past you know two weeks have been multiple pilot incapacitations during flight operations but you don't hear about it you know the airlines they they do their very best to cover this up it's something that's going to continue to happen if we don't take decisive action right now to stop it so dr. Levy they're not looking at myocarditis so is it safe to say that then the only test that you might see something like this would be these EKGs that to be changing the sensitivity at a time where you should really be doing tests looking at myocytitis, seeing if there's a rise in troponin levels. They're not even doing that,

and now they're lowering the requirements just very quickly for my audience. Can we bring up that graph? Because you sort of talked me through this from the British Medical Journal, standardized criteria for ECG interpretation in athletes a practical tool. So that circled area is that, explain to me what's happening, what that P represents. At the very beginning of that P wave is when the electrical spark is generated by special cells inside the right atrium, upper chamber of your heart. It then propagates across the atrium, and that makes the P wave. And then as it propagates across the atrium, then it descends down into the major conduction system of the heart. So there's a little bottom, that little drop down before it fires up. Right. And at that point in time, special fibers

rapidly accelerated so that the whole heart muscle contracts simultaneously and gives a strong heartbeat. If it just contracted slowly, then you would get inefficient contraction. So that's another reason why conduction system abnormalities can be so significant. They can also lead, in addition to the other problems we've talked about, heart failure, enlargement of the heart and poor contractility. So this point, too, is just how long, is it since that first firing of the spark, is it the distance between that and the actual action or is it include no the point two is

just from the beginning of the P wave okay to the beginning of the QRS got it right all right so what they've done is said we we are accepting that that can now be elongated that there be a longer period of time now instead of point two seconds point three seconds to do that whole thing and across cardiology worldwide you said this is once it's sort of above that point two what do you do you tend to do as a doctor? Well as a cardiologist, if somebody's being referred to me, because I'm a cardiologist and they deserve a cardiac workup, that's why somebody comes to me, and they have that type

of finding. Across the board, they should get a Holter monitor, which records all the heartbeats that you have for 24 hours. Okay. See where there's extra beats, slow beats, rapid heartbeats, the whole ball of wax, or you have a nice normal heart rhythm, which is what you need. other thing too, and I got to confess, Del, this shocked me and appalled me when I first met Josh not too long ago. I, as a stupid member of the flying public, thought that the FAA did some

reasonable cardiac check-up on their pilots. All they do is an electrocardiogram. And if you have no other symptoms, that's it. I thought, since the primary cause of sudden death in the age range of most pilots is a first-time heart attack without symptoms, you would obviously always do a stress test to make sure there's no abnormalities that require further evaluation of the heart. So it's my ardent, fervent suggestion that not only does the FAA improve its performance here, they start doing stress tests. So literally there's so many tests they really should be doing. They're only doing one, and now they're weakening, you know, the sort of lower. the baseline of what is is not acceptable.

And I might add a normal electrocardiogram, that's great, but that gives you no information at all zero as to your likelihood of having a heart attack. It just tells you you haven't had one in the past. It doesn't tell you you're not going to get one a half an hour after that EKG takes place. Senator Ron Johnson actually wrote a letter to the FAA. We're a big fan, obviously, of Ron Johnson.

on the show before. Let me just read from that letter. I write to request information about changes the Federal Aviation Administration FAA made to its guidance for aviation medical examiners. On October 26, 2022, the FAA changed the acceptable PR interval to less than 0.30 seconds and remove the reference to the individual's age. According to a media report, a PR interval that exceeds 0.2 indicates a first-degree atrial ventricular block, which can cause a slower heartbeat or abnormal rhythm. The images below highlight this change in the FAA document. So it used to be 0.2. Now it's point three. He shows both of those documents. If you see here in May 25th, 2022, you see that the lower limit is 0.21. This is the point at which they're supposed to be further

studies. And then by October 26, that has changed to 0.3 seconds with no explanation. Now he sent this letter. The FAA did respond. Look at this, folks. They responded. And in their response, they basically says, according to the federal air surgeons, cardiology consultants in a review of the literature, first degree AV blocks between 200 and 300 milliseconds do not require cardiac workup and can be followed as a normal variant. First degree AV blocks in this range are not associated

with sudden or subtle incapacitation, abnormal cardiac rhythms or lost speeds. As a result, first degree AV blocks up to 300 milliseconds were added to the FAA's list of normal variants in 2017. Well, folks, I mean, again, we've talked about this on this show, as though, you know, they act as though there's no way to check these things. We have 2017's FAA requirements, and here they are. If you look at the 2017 Guide for Aviation Medical, there it is a first-degree AV

block with PR interval less than 0.21 in ages less than 51. So they're lying to us. And again, like a lot of these stories, you could say, oh, it's a misstep, or maybe we're making more out of it. But when people start shuffling things and stuffing things under their bed and flushing things down the toilet, that makes me nervous. What they said in that comment directly contradicts what was done in an extensive 2009 Harvard study over a 20 to 30 year period on a population called the Framingham population

where they just analyzed all the EKGs and the problems that developed. And they found over that period of time when you just got just over point two, not all the way to point three, but just over point two. You had twice the risk of atrial fibrillation, three times the risk of a severe enough blockage of your heart to get a pacemaker and a 50% greater chance. You wrote an article on this, right? Let's bring up that article just so we can give you. So if people want to read your article, it's in orthomolecular.org, myocarditis once rare, now common. And in it, you make this. This is the quote.

In a Harvard study extended over 30 to 40-year period. It was found that invisible PR intervals greater than 0.2 seconds had twice the risk of atrial fibrillation. three times the risk of needing a pacemaker, meaning the presence of advanced degrees of heart block, and nearly a one and a half times increase in all-cause mortality. Furthermore, greater degrees of PR interval prolongation led to an even greater risk. Now, to be clear, to have an EKG that comes above point to in some situation, it's not something to really be alarmed by in a singular patient, and maybe you do some light tests or things like that.

Certainly now we're getting to 0.3 seconds, maybe more testing, But is it fair to say that though, are there a, let me ask you this, are there a cardiologist out there that would see a 0.31 millisecond P value there and just say, oh, you're fine and send them on their way? There might be. There are a lot of cardiologists that I would consider practice suboptimal cardiology. Right. But if somebody's being referred to you for a cardiology evaluation and they have any abnormality on the EKG at all, especially one associated. with future conduction developments, defects. It's absolutely appropriate, at a minimum,

of getting the Holter monitor and getting the cardiac stress test. And so even more so, I was asking before, we have a group of pilots that have all had their EKGs. This has been like a football team or a basketball team. If you had a basketball team where you started seeing a lot of these athletes, you know, going above this point two limit, does this sort of, you know, the idea that a large group, or seeing a heart change there?

Should that be alarming to people in medicine? There's no question. If you have a sports group and they got their routine physicals and 95% of them had perfectly normal PR intervals and that at some point later, especially since the pandemic and the vaccines have become prominent, all of a sudden there's only 30% of them have normal PR intervals, that raises as red a flag

as red can get, okay? One other thing I'd like to add too, Dahl, is we're talking about the heart, and that's appropriate, but this COVID, as we see from people with symptoms of long-haul COVID and other post-vaccination symptoms as well, you have symptoms throughout the body, okay? But we don't have tests for the liver or the bowel or the brain like we have for the heart. So I'm submitting that anybody who has an elevation of troponin, I guarantee you there's persistent spike protein damage going on throughout the body. It's just that we're just detecting it on this test. So it's sort of a sentinel test that lets us know what's going on everywhere else. And the other thing, too, about the spike protein, very important. Spike protein is toxic and causes the problems that we talked about.

But unlike any other toxin that I know of, This is diabolical because the spike protein has the ability to replicate itself and maintain its presence. I mean, it's like getting a high dose of mercury and you manage to overcome the toxicity of that mercury, and now the mercury continues to reproduce itself, and you've got to fight it every day, every day, every day. So these are very important symptoms of what I call the persistent spike protein syndrome. Yeah, Josh, this is work you've been focused on. you know, you and I are just late people when it comes to the science and the medicine behind this. But when you look at EKGs and they have a standard that has lasted, as we've heard, for a hundred years,

and then only one industry makes a change right at the time where people like yourself are saying, we are very concerned about some abnormalities we're seeing in pilots that they're coming to me. Should we not jump to that conclusion that this is because they must be seeing a big rise and changes in the hearts of pilots? I think that's a logical conclusion to come to, and we've even asked the FAA to present the new science which they claim to have. However, rather than present any science, they continue to say there's nothing to see here. We're not going to investigate it, and that's why we're so concerned. If they wanted to be transparent, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. But unfortunately, transparency is not something that is a fundamental thing with the FAA.

Is there anything, do you think people need to start like requesting unvaccinated pilots? Or is that, do you see any of that happening? Or are there conversations about whether or not we should put on vaccinated pilots in maybe as one of the pilots to just make it safer? Well, as far as the airline industry goes, that's not even a possibility at this point. Around 80% of airline pilots are now vaccinated. So it's not something that we can realistically do. However, I have had numerous wealthy people and charter companies reach out to me looking for unvaccinated pilots for their private jets and small companies. So there certainly are people that are becoming aware of the issue and they've been making changes.

This started all the way back in the fall of 2021 when I received the first call, but it's becoming more prominent now. All right. I know that you are involved in fighting for pilots' rights and also really in many ways that's protecting those of us that fly in airplanes. You have some lawsuits out there. Where's the best way for people to be able to sort of help and contribute to the work that you're doing to fight for this very important issue? Sure. People can visit our website, US Freedom Flyers.org. They can donate there if they would like. There's also a give send go that's out on social media that's going actually.

We have it here. U.S. Freedom Flyers, givsongo.com slash USFFF. Okay. And we're also, what we're doing right now is we're raising money for litigation against the FAA. We've tried to have dialogue. That hasn't worked. don't listen to doctors like Dr. Levy. They haven't listened to our research team who's confronted them with the new documentation, the changes.

And then also the vaccine injured pilots, hundreds of vaccine injured pilots who are demanding that they do something. And yet the FAA comes back and they say there's nothing to see here. You haven't been damaged by the vaccine. And we've seen no pilot incapacitations. This is atrocious. They've said they've seen no pilot incapacitations even though I've had Captain Snow on here. You've listed some of very public situations. I mean, it's no different than what we're seeing from the FDA, the denial, the CDC, the denial.

And it's really disturbing because you would think that these are regulatory agencies that are supposed to be protecting us, not protecting the industry, but protecting the people that are, you know, that are trusting these pilots and the people that work with them. This isn't just about the pilots and getting them help, but it's also about protecting your safety as an airline passenger. I'm sure most people weren't aware until this show of these changes that were happening. Yeah. But if this is something that concerns you, you need to get involved. You know, millions of passengers are potentially affected every day by the complete malfeasance that we see coming out of the FAA currently. And I've seen some doctors and other people in the news say, well, you know, that's putting too much of a load on the FDA. The testing is going to be so involved. No, no. It's you have your abnormal EKG or your prologel?

PR interval EKG, the next day you get your stress test and you get your opponent and you get your D-dimer level test. Just dive deeper. Prove us wrong. There's no significant time slowing of getting pilots possibly validated. And let me say this, I want to make this clear. I don't want anybody to think that I'm saying a pilot with a PR interval greater than point three shouldn't fly. Right, right.

he or she shouldn't fly until the tests are normal and appropriate further testing has been done for their safety as well as obviously the public right well it's so important one of the things you pointed out is there has been some pushback to saying oh you're making a big deal out of this but we aren't actually seeing any cardiologists taking to the news to say this is ridiculous you're making a big deal of this you know this there's no they're there we don't see any cardiologists saying that yet physicians and maybe especially cardiologists are not humble people. They're pretty proud. They're strut around, king of the hill, kind of arrogant. And I think even if a cardiologist would equal my qualifications says, well,

I think Dr. Levy's making a mountain out of a molehill, they know it's an abnormality. And they know very possibly that what I'm saying will eventually be gradually accepted. And if they come out as some sort of expert saying, I'm full of crap, then they end up looking ridiculous down the road. So I don't really anticipate any qualified cardiologist talking against this. Now, there'll be a lot of journalists. There'll be a lot of family docs and general practitioners and chiropractors that they can pay to be on their side saying, Dr. Levy's full of graph. But you're not going to see a cardiologist come out and say what I'm saying is wrong. They can say, well, maybe he's exaggerating or maybe we shouldn't be that.

concerned but they can't say there's no concern well that makes me very concerned and I think that's why you're here I really appreciate that you guys are taking the road that you're getting this word out it is very very important and there's a lot to learn this is you know as I as we look at all these things I just keep thinking there's so much to learn at this time about COVID about the vaccine about our health and you know groups like pilots are actually a perfect space to be recording what we're learning and doing you know we have the records of their EKGs throughout all these health there's so much to learn there and instead we're going the opposite direction lowering the bar

and sticking our heads in the sand as though nothing is happening that is that is a recipe for disaster and it's you know it's why I know you guys are courageous you're putting it all in the line I want to thank you for taking the time to join us today thank you for having all right absolutely keep up the great work thank you