The Hockey PDOcast - 2023 Mock Draft: Part 1

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Cam Robinson joins Dimitri to talk about this year's draft class, the process that went into putting together a draft board, and what kind of traits are being prioritized. Then they start the 2023 mock draft by making picks 1 through 5. For picks 6 through 16, check out part two.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovin. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name's Dmitri Filipovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Cam Robinson, Cam. Merry Christmas. How's it going? What's going on, bud? It's the greatest time of the year, my man. We are in Nashville, and it's a draft weekend. We get to do our annual mock here. This is literally, this is the best. It certainly is. We're doing our 2023 mock draft. I think I opened yesterday's show I had our pal Thomas Drands on. We did trades.

We'd like to see this offseason. I think I also set that one up as saying it was basically Christmas for us. And that's just how I feel this week, this entire week right now is Christmas, this draft process, trades with free agency coming up, everything. I love it. It's fantasy heaven in terms of like trying to figure out what's going to happen, shaking and moving. So here's our plan for today. We're doing the mock draft that I said. This is our fifth year in a row.

I believe you and I are doing this. The first one, if you'll remember, was in 2019 when you came over. The draft was in Vancouver. And we had our pal Ufebaudine hanging out with us. And he was a bit jet lagged after a long trip overseas from Sweden. And he took a little nap while we were recording. Then we tagged them in to talk about Philip Broberg. Good times were had.

I believe we haven't missed a year since then. Even during the pandemic drafts, we were still getting. getting together banging out these mock drafts. So this is one of our longest standing traditions so far. Unfortunately, Chris Peters isn't here with us. He's done the past couple years. So it's a shame. I'm going to miss his combination of wisdom and also grumpiness when you and I talk

someone up and he's just not having any time for it. So maybe we won't have a third voice here to kind of check us on some of our excitement. But otherwise, we'll get them back next year. And you and I are going to try to pick up the heavy lifting without him. That's right. It'll just be unbridled enthusiasm without Peter. here. But well, yeah, we'll miss them, but we'll bring them back. And I was just talking to Ufei downstairs at breakfast about that, that 2019 experience. And we were laughing about it. And he's

taking that snooze on the couch. It was really good. Okay. So we're going to do, we're going to mock the 16 lottery picks. And I think it's important to know that we're not necessarily trying to predict what will happen. We're going to kind of save that for Bob McKenzie's big board and others out there. Instead, what we're going to focus on is what we think should happen, right? If we were in control these picks, how we value these players, of course, I think, I don't want to speak for you. You can jump in on this as well. I think we're generally aligned, though, in our belief that in most cases, you just take the best player available because the timeline is so long that trying to sort of thread this needle of, oh, this player who can help us

two or three years from now is exactly what we need. Well, two or three years from now, who knows what you're going to need at that point based on your roster construction. So instead, we're going to focus on on trying to be like talent evaluators and kind of ranking these guys based on their merit, not necessarily their position or specific skill set. But obviously we have our own preferences and we're going to try to factor in what teams are thinking as well, right? Because we're generally talking to some of these teams trying to kind of get a buzz. Some teams keep it closer to the vest than others in draft week, but you still hear some

things trickling out. So we'll try to factor in some of that team context as well. Let's start with this, Cam. let's set the scene for everyone. Let's talk about the process, whether it is for you, what you're looking for, how your preferences have changed

as a talent evaluator over the years, maybe lessons you've learned for both good and bad reasons that have influenced your takes recently. Let's get into all that in terms of kind of like what listeners can expect from our rankings. Yeah, so I'd like to think that I've evolved

greatly over the years. You'll learn from your mistakes. And so for a long time now, been smarts and skating are the two biggest things that I've really focused in on. And then those other skills, they're more easily attained. Like, sure, you're not going to, you're not going to end up with the Qutja Kutrov's hands if you got hands like me. But, you know, it doesn't matter how hard you work. But some of those attributes can be, they can be elevated through through hard work and that development process. But lately, it's, even the skating has

taken a little bit of a dip down my list of requirements. And it, and it's, it's all coming back to the brain. And obviously, you need to be a good skater to keep up in this. league. But I think that that can take a step. But if you're smart, you can get a jump on things. You can read plays. You can use your gear changes. You can use every inch of ice and all your weapons to overcome if you're not the fastest skater. Whereas if you are a blazer, but you don't have that mind, you're not using it to the best of your ability, right? You might end up being a third line checker, a strong PK guy sort of thing like that, but you're limiting your upside upside without that brain. And so upside, upside, upside, is how I look for things, especially

at this point in the draft. Like you want to talk about we're picking 95. Yeah, sure, go and take a guy who's a burner who you're like, he can be in the NHL. It'll be in a limited role, but we're getting ourselves a player this late in the draft. But you're talking top 16, we're swinging for the fences for the most part here. That's a good point. I think I value skating still maybe a bit more than you. And I'm sure that's going to lead to some interesting debates and specifics as we get to a couple players here in our draft boards. But I think there's an important differentiation maybe between sort of the nuances of that, right?

in terms of like, I don't think just being having straight line speed and being really fast on your top end is necessarily that valuable because there's going to be so few instances over the course of an NHL game where you actually just get to like unopposed and untouched get to skate from one end of the ice to the other. But I think in terms of like being able to maybe change speeds or like hit that gear quickly, I do still value that quite a bit. And I always get very scared when I read a report on a player and there's stuff like sluggish or, the feet are a bit slow or, you know, maybe it's, maybe it's an effort thing, but also it's like,

oh, you know, they're a bit slow to the play. So they're just kind of reaching and stuff. Like that, those are kind of worrying things to me because I do think those can kind of affect you in all three zones. It's not necessarily just a defensive thing. Like, it can affect you on offense as well. And so for me, I maybe view that a little bit, but maybe it's more so the change of speeds as opposed to just being able to skate fast all the time. Yeah, don't get me wrong. I also do not like, when I have to write those reports. Sluggish is not a word I like to use on a player that I'm usually going to bat for. So you need to be able to keep up without a doubt.

The brain's going to get you a certain distance, but you definitely need to have at least average speed. It's just that I guess over the years, some of these kids that are really plus plus skaters that have that kind of breakaway speed. But if they're lacking the mind is where I've maybe made the mistake in the past, like, oh my gosh, this guy is the top three skater in the class. He could be a star. But if he doesn't have the rest of it going upstairs,

that's not going to be the end result. And so that's one of the things I've learned. But yeah, you're absolutely right, is that, you know, you can't be sluggish in this, in this day and age. Yeah, I think the sort of like the nuances of, like, even with shots as well, right? Like for so long, I used to be like, oh, this guy can shoot really hard. That must mean he's a good shooter. Then now it's like being able to disguise your intentions and kind of pick your spots

and keep people off balance with what you're going to do. That applies to skating and shooting and even like passing, right, in terms of all these like little things. little tricks that you can incorporate. And so I think that's an important part of this. Also this year was finally kind of a bit of a return to normalcy, right? In terms of scouting, got to finally like get into some rinks, watch some of these players live, no interruptions or tournament cancellations or all that stuff that sort of plagued the past couple seasons.

So I imagine, I don't know, how do you think that impacts this year in terms of scout certainty in terms of like how confident they feel about their picks right because I feel like the past couple years there was a lot of couching everything with well you know it didn't get to really see them in person or I was watching all this tape and I'm not sure what to make of it it feels like that's kind of a bit of a lesser issue this season especially for I guess you know the players who weren't playing in Russia those guys still had that obviously but for the most part it feels like it's a bit of a cleaner process in terms of the scouting and the viewings that we got this season. Yeah, I think, I think you're absolutely right, is that,

you know, it's a return to normalcy. Now, I will say, though, that the kids that were watching this year, almost all of them lost their 15 year old season, which is a very formative growth year for a lot of players, right? So we're still seeing the effects of that lost season, I would say, and we're probably going to for another year or two here. But it did feel, it did feel more normal this season. And getting out to the rings was great and talking to these kids and seeing them live and getting the film views. It feels good to be back. It seems like it was almost like a whole lifetime ago when we had to deal with that

stuff, but it wasn't really that long ago. I guess the one final kind of thing here in terms of context, the Vancouver scene in terms of the prospects in this year's draft, right? The BC seat in terms of our pal Thomas Drance did a great piece on kind of this hotbed of all these guys who are essentially playing for the same club growing up. up and we're going to be talking about a bunch of these names throughout this process. That's pretty exciting too, right? In our backyard, kind of getting this next wave of NHL stars that all kind of came up together,

played together, and like what that could mean also for future development in the area. Yeah, it's really cool for sure. Obviously, Connor Bredard leading the way, but it's great when, especially for us and when they're these homegrown kids, it's great for a developmental system. It's great when you have a strong year in the Western Hockey League. It's so cyclical, though, right? It ebbs and flows. You know, we can have a down year.

Next year, the OHL might step back up and we'll wait for the queue to do something. So it's always fun to track these, especially for me as a Film Scout, because I'm only one man. I can't watch every player in the world enough times to get a proper assessment on them. So you have to pick and choose. So it's great that it kind of moves around a little bit where I get to watch the West more certain years. I get to watch the Q more certain years of the USHL and become more and more familiar with those circuits as we go through. through it. But yeah, having these kids in our backyard and then, you know, having the CGL top

prospect game in Langley this year too. So those kids are at home and they got the home fans there and we were there having a good time enjoying it too. So yeah, great, great for the scouting world this year for us on the West Coast. Well, and that's why I really, I mean, we're going to plug the lead prospects draft guide quite a bit throughout the show. But the game reports where I thought were kind of the most useful to over me because it was really fun to be able

to, I mean, you get a sampling of all the different scouts to yourself included that we're involved in the process, but you also get to track the progression. And sometimes it is linear. Sometimes it's bumpy in terms of like you starting off the season one away. And then as it goes along for a player, you can either see the specific improvements that they've made to their game and the evolution. And then you guys are honing in on that compared to sometimes it's like a bit rockier. And so I think that gives you a better sense of that because as you're right, like one person is not, should not be expected to have a proper pulse on. whatever 300 plus players or however many you're going to wind up actually considering in this process.

So I just wanted to give the draft guide love because for me as well kind of parachuting in here, I just basically like hooked I hooked myself up to an Ivy and got the drip going with the draft guide over the past couple days. And so I've been consuming it. And I can't recommend it enough as a resource for anyone that's listening to this is interested in it and it wants to learn more about these players. Oh, without a doubt. And you know, as you said, like I'm a big contributor to the draft guide.

And I'm also IV dripping those game reports too because, you know, we have some tremendous scouts on staff and they're going to see things that I didn't see and I want to know about it. And so I'm getting, I'm getting the lay land through their film views as well, through their live views as well. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's it's great for the prospect junkies that really want to know the deep dive stuff. And it's great for the people that just want more of a kind of a superficial understanding of who could my team draft or after it's done. You know, who did we just draft? And let's find out everything we can about these players. And that's what we offer for sure.

Okay. Well, that's enough preamble. Let's get into the good stuff. This is what people came to listen for. We're going to do our mock draft. Since it's only two of us this time, we're now going to go with a snake format. I think we should just go back and forth. You know what? I'll give you. Here, I'll be generous. I'll give you the first pick for the Chicago Blackhawks. I don't think I need to give you the full time on the clock. I think you can make the pick already. You probably know who it's going to be. Well, let's talk a little bit about Conner-Barrard, because there's obviously no debate in terms of what could they possibly do here. So instead, maybe let's use this time allocated to like just kind of geeking out a little bit about the intricacies of his game and what we can expect from hopefully day one, like as soon as he steps on an NHLA service. Yeah. So I've been doing this, you know, professionally since 2014. And so I was able to watch Connor McDavid as he came up and through his draft year. And I have to say that Connor Bredd is the best prospect. I've had the opportunity to scout throughout his draft season. And it's not that he is necessarily better than Conner.

McDavid was at the time or will be a better NHLer. It's just what he does with what he has is so impressive to me. He doesn't have Connor McDavid's speed. And that is what the differentiator, which makes McDavid such an elite, incredible talent, is that he's so good at everything, but then he has this all world, all universe speed. But Dard is smaller, but the way he can maneuver in traffic, the way he can get that shot off, I've been saying it on a couple of shows lately that you take Austin Matthews and you take Mitch Marner and then you put him together and this freaky hybrid comes out and it's Connor

Bredardt and it's I think that he's he's got the will he he has this possessive nature that the puck is his and he wants it every opportunity he wants to shine in the big moments he wants to do everything for his team and sometimes that leads to some hiccups and some turnovers but you take that all day um I think he's going to turn into not only a frontline top top of the league score, but I think he's also going to be a really strong defensive player, too, because he's such a competitive kit. It's really, I run out of superlatives when I talk about him, is that he is so, so talented, and the ceiling on his game is just astronomical hits.

He could quite easily become the best player in the world in five years, sort of thing. When McDavid starts to slow down a little bit, he will be the one who will be taking that mantle. His numbers this season are just video game-like, comical. even try to consider, right? Between the WHL regular season playoffs and World Juniors, 71 games played, 90 goals, 96 assists, 442 shots on goal. And specifically with that shot, we believe that kind of that curl and drag shot of his, which is kind of become a staple or bread and butter that people are going to try to replicate in years to come, he's going to play from day one against

NHL goalies, right? Like, I'm sure he's going to deal with sort of like more size and obviously a higher quality of goaltender. So maybe in terms of some of the goals. he was able to get away with will be stopped. But for the most part, he's going to adjust to that as well. And it feels like he's going to be able to get that off and trick goalies and pick his spots pretty much from the jump, right? Yes, absolutely. You know, like we see some of these altruc skilled kids come in at 18 and they struggle. You know, Jack Hughes is a perfect example of it, that they need a little bit of time before they can become stars.

And I think we're going to see just a very small fraction of that with regard where, yes, he's going to be isolated and keyed in on so greatly, especially on that Blackhawks lineup. We'll see what they do to continue to try to insulate him. If they can provide him with some more support, that'll be huge for him. So he's not a one-man army out there. But if he's healthy next season and doesn't score 30 goals, I'll be very surprised. Because that shot is quite literally probably the second best dragon release in the world, maybe even the best already.

And he's not even in the NHL yet. Like nobody gets it off as quick as him. His placement on it is incredible. he zips it right by the goalie's ear, right under the bar. You can't teach that kind of thing. It's just an innate ability that he has and the whip and the strength that he gets off of it at his size. He's not, you know, he hits the gym hard, but he's not a big kid. But he just generates so much downward pressure on it and it just explodes off that stick.

And that is going to continue at the NHL level. And it's going to catch all world goalies right by their ears too. Well, I think what really excites me is interesting thinking and how he's going to look as a rookie in NHL and how that transition is going to go for him, is reading the reports and sort of seeing how his game evolved and adapted as the season progressed as well, right? Because it was one thing to just have that all-world skill and be able to just kind of have it come easy where you're playing against inferior

players and you just do that one kind of trick move time and time again. But as the year progressed, he obviously was given a bunch of defensive attention, right? Teams were going after him. They were trying to take away his space. and like further up the ice, prevent him from stepping into that shot. And so he adapted. He changed his game in terms of the way he attacked a little bit, right?

He started to incorporate some off the puck stuff, crashing the net, kind of trying to come open in the slot without necessarily having the puck on a stick the entire time. Obviously, like the forechecking and winning battles and the level of competitiveness that we saw from him, those layers to his game, I guess, are very encouraging that there's like even more here in this player, right?

He's going to continue to grow and adapt and evolve and add little tricks to his game. And so you can't necessarily just or you maybe can take away that one thing, but he'll still find a way to produce. And that's what he showed this year. And I think that's very exciting. Absolutely. And we haven't even talked about his playmaking is that like I have a whole folder of clips of him setting up his teammates with such creativity that they don't even know it's coming and they miss

their opportunity. And that should, you know, ease up at the NHL level if he's surrounded with. some of these smarter veteran players too, is that he could have had, he could have had probably 20, 30 more points if he was on either a better WHL team or had higher end linemates to work with, too, is that his playmaking is alter supreme too. So once they start to surround him with those players, his game is just, it's a chessboard and he has all the moves to make things happen. And as we talked about the day after that aforementioned top prospects game, as you could see

in that one and obviously throughout the season as well, like that chippiness as well in terms like I mentioned the competitiveness, like he will, he'll seek out contact, even though he is five, nine or whatever he's listed at. And he certainly like looks the part. Like he looks pretty small on the ice. And then all of a sudden he's just going to get in someone's space and not be afraid to get involved in that. And so that's obviously very exciting as well. There's just so many layers to this. And, you know, heading into this process, I was, I was ready to be like, all right, this is kind of boring just because we know that he's so good. We know what he does. And he's such a lock for first overall that it's not like a really fun topic to rehash.

But then the more you think about it, the more you watch, the more you kind of keep digesting information on him, it actually does become interesting because he's almost in real time answering a lot of questions that you might have otherwise had for him. So the fact that his game and the way he was picking you apart did change the season while along actually added like a kind of like a cool dynamic to this that I didn't think existed halfway through the season. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, you you never run out of things to say about Connor Bardard because he. He can do so much and he can change his game in a heartbeat. And when we see these players get better throughout the year at his level already, that is, as you said, it's very exciting to see what could be next.

What are those next steps going to be? You know, Connor Bernard at 25 is just going to be a monster. Yeah. Well, I'm curious. I mean, year one, we'll see, you know, the Blackhawks brought in Taylor Hall. They brought in and signed Nick Folino. They have so much cap space that they're, I imagine they're going to bring in at least another handful of like, competent, like reliable NHL players to at least help insulate him a little bit so that he's not

just playing with a bunch of AHLers and people who probably shouldn't be playing the roles they are in NHL. So that's going to be huge. But I still think there probably will, like just in terms of the defensive responsibilities and everything that comes with being a center in the league, that probably will be at five-on-five where a bit of the adjustments takes, right? Like I think he will score 30 plus goals and produce a lot and score a ton on the power play. I'm very curious to see what is like 5-1-5-underlying numbers look like in year one.

Because for McDavid, they were already really, really good. Like he was already a positive player in year one when he came back from his injury. I'm as high hopes as I have for Bidar. And I imagine that process for him might take a bit longer just because of how bad the team around him is going to be. Yeah, I think that that's fair, that there's going to be some nights where he just gets absolutely cratered. Which is okay. That's part of the process. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Okay, well, I have the second pick here for the Anaheim Ducks and I will take, I'm not going to do anything too spicy. I'm going to take Adam Fantilli here. And the reason why I bring that up is because the more you talk to people here recently, I'm not sure if you're hearing the same things, but there's a surprising amount of Leo Carlson buzz for me. I just thought, I just assumed when the draft lottery happened and we found out Columbus moved down to three. the doc's got the second pick that fantilli was locked in there but it feels like it's not necessarily a given i still would project him to be the pick there in the actual draft but at least the door is a bit more ajar maybe than it seemed like it would be a couple weeks ago yeah not only that

but there's there's a whole lot of talk to right now here in nashville and and i was on a show earlier and papar beak was about an arm length away from me as as i was being asked this question and he was giving me a sideways smile as I was saying I was like I got to be careful with for be great next to me here but we're hearing a lot of talking to um I'm hearing will Smith's name chattered it too we're hearing matthew mishkoff's name chattered it too things we thought the draft would start at four that the fund would start at four it could very realistically start it two this year um and and so I still do believe that adam fantili is the odds on favorite but yeah there's there's now a handful of names that

that we can be hearing coming up. And that'll throw this top end of the draft in the blender if it does. That'll change a whole bunch of teams decisions all the way down the board if something funky happens. Certainly. Well, let's talk through Fantilli then because I do like him. I have second on my board and obviously just had about as successful a season as you can have for a player at the stage of his career, right?

He wins the Hobie Baker. He has 65 points in 36 games in NCAA. He wins gold medal to juniors. he wins gold medal at the world championships. And so a lot of what you see from him and everything I've read, it's very obviously enticing, right? It's like the type of player that NHLGMs typically tend to salivate over in terms of like the power forward and the bulrush towards the net

and also the skill to get there. What are the real sort of concerns or knocks against that that would potentially move the ducks in a different direction? Because it seems like just on paper, it would be a very obvious fit in terms of, all right, well, he's obviously not Conradar and that's disappointing that as the worst team in the league, we didn't get him, but this is a pretty good consolation prize. It is. He would be first overall if he was in last year's crop. He would have gone first overall. There's probably several in the last decade. He's a first overall

caliber player. I guess the only real outside of their center depth in Anaheim, you know, they have McCabish, they have Zegress, they have Ryan Storm right now, but you know, you can move somebody over to the wing, is that I would say that Fentilly is not an elite thinker. And so maybe that ends up limiting him to being more of a 75, 80 point player than a 9,500 point player. I don't think he's Jack Eichel. I know that he's got that comparison a lot. And obviously, you know, winning the Hobie Baker as a true freshman and putting up the

gaudy point totals and he's a speed-driven pivot. I don't think he's quite Jack Eichael level, who was also a very good consolation. Prize in 2015. But he's highly talented. I know people who just kind of airdropped in and watched him at the World Juniors and watched him side by side to Bajard and like, oh, what? Like he's not even on the same planet. It's like, yeah, well, nobody really is.

So he's also, he was also good in the role that he played for Canada there. And then he was all worlds for Michigan, right? As soon as he went back to school, he just ran off a ton of points on a big, long point streak and reminded everyone who was watching that, yes, I am very, very good. He's such a weapon on the power play. the one-timer, the quick release, he gets into the hard areas, he plays the middle of the ice, he's got a pro body, he's got everything you want. And I would be moderately surprised if he didn't go number two.

But yes, I would say just that there's some players that have a higher, higher-end thinking process on the ice than him that could be considered. Yeah, but the physical tools are so enticing, right, at that size to be able to, I mean, the combination of the shot, but also sort of like the wrecking ball mentality that he plays with. I guess one of the knocks throughout the year was maybe that sometimes he could get a bit, and maybe this speaks to that processing and kind of the creativity of the brain. He would get a bit like hero pucky at times, I guess, right? Like he would just get kind of tunnel vision to just like put his head down and try to go to the net.

And that's great in a lower level league when you're playing against younger players. Maybe it'll work less effectively when all of a sudden he's not the biggest physical freak on the ice at the NHL level. So maybe that would be one of the concerns. but I think that the appeal of especially like you've already got McTavrish there as you said and then Zegris and like how like stylistically different those guys are you all of a sudden check so many boxes that I don't know I think Fantelli should be a lock there but I guess in terms of drumming up excitement and in drama we can keep the door open a little bit there for the mystery that's right yeah yeah okay um Cam let's uh let's take our break here and then when

we come back we'll pick up the mock draft where we left off and we'll do the third overall pick you are listening to the Hockey P.D.Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. The most opinionated Canucks show out there. Connect with Jamie Dodd and Thomas Drans. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Back to the Hockey P.D.O. cast with Camme, we're doing our 20-23 mock draft. We did the first two picks. They went, according to plan, with Connor Bredargo and first and in front of the second. Cam, you're on the clock here with the third overall pick for the Columbus Blue Jackets.

I'm taking Leo Carlson. Oh, boo. Come on. That's boring. I'm sorry. It's who I would pick. Yeah. And it's who I believe they're going to pick as long as something funky doesn't happen. He is another player who could arguably be a first overall talent in several draft classes. He's this big bodied center who played his entire season against men, put up the fifth best season ever in the SHL for a draft eligible. Hanging out there with the Cedine twins and Eliza Lindholm.

Nicholas Baxter. Nicholas Baxter, thank you. Yeah. So, you know, hanging with some really good company. Six foot three, he skates well, 200 pounds. He's good at everything. He's maybe not great at any one skill. He's not going to be super elite at any one thing.

But the sum of his parts is a first line center. And to get that at number three is exactly what you want. If you, the only knock is maybe you'd want to be a righty. And that would make him just that much a little bit better because it's hard to get those right shot center sometimes. But no, I love his game. It really grows on you. The more you watch and the nuances he has,

the intelligence that he has, when the time is landing into soft spot to the ice so that he can get that shot off. At his age, at the SHL level, that's what really impresses me. When some of these guys can do it at the junior level, it's like, yeah, that's a really good sign. When you can do it in like a top three or four league in the world at 17,

that's when I really take notice. And that's the type of stuff that he does. He knows how to get open into space. He knows how to finish off plays. he knows how to set up plays. He can play well defensively. He can drive play north-south. He can cut you inside out.

He's got all the tools that you want. And I would even say that the physical tools aren't quite at Adam Fantilli's level, but the brain is bigger. I think he's got the higher IQ. So do you think, I mean, it obviously is still a big jump going from playing in the SHL to the NHL, especially for a teenager, but do you think that we see him if it goes this way full time with the Columbus Blue Jackets next season? No, I don't.

I think he stays in Sweden for one more year. I do. I think, you know, you never say 100%, but I think that that would be, I think that's what Columbus would prefer. I think that's what he would prefer. I think that that would be the best case for everybody. And then when he comes over as a freshly turned 20-year-old or about to be turned 20, then he'll be ready to jump in and play some top nine minutes right out the door.

Yeah, I mean, the pro habits and like just the projectable skills, set and being able to potentially use a guy like this in sort of like defensive matchup assignments while also getting offensive production out of it is obviously very enticing. There was some stuff in our guide about kind of, you know, I think he moves fine for his size in particular, but like maybe some mobility concerns in terms of like just like the mechanics and how maybe it can affect his puck protection, which obviously should be a big part of his game as a six foot three pivot. do you think like that's something that that is a valid concern or something very fixable or kind of like how do we weigh that?

I'm just I'm just purely trying to sort of poke few holes here in his in his profile because obviously otherwise check so many boxes. Yeah. Like I said, he's not he's not an elite mover and he doesn't have those crazy hands. And so he's not going to, he's not going to drop jaws. He's not going to be Mary Louvre out there. But I don't think his skating is going to hold him back at all. I think he's still above average at it. He's got a strong stride.

He's got a fluid stride. He's a little hunched over in his posture. But these are things that you can iron out fairly easily with a smart kid who has a work ethic. So I have no concerns about his puck protection skills. You know, there will be an evolution to his game as he grows. Like I said, I don't think if you air dropped him into the NHL next season, you wouldn't be looking at a star. Of course. But you put him in when we're talking at 22, 23, 24.

then we could be looking at kind of like a maybe not a high level star but but a star nonetheless he's basically like if if you remember anton lundel as a draft eligible and what he's kind of blossoming into he's anton londell on steroids like he's the better he's the better version basically all around of that type of player i like that and i was talked about on this show a couple times already um everything i've heard in terms of like work ethic and sort of just like how like diligent he is like I think that's a very exciting prospect. And I want to point that out because I think for whatever reason, right, like you go, especially when it's Bernard up top and then Fantillion and this allure of like what Madh Be Michkov could be,

Carlson for whatever reason gets bogged into being kind of like viewed as sort of this safe pick. And I'm just pushing back against that a little bit because I do think like it's a pretty exciting player based on everything we just described. Absolutely it is. He has been overshadowed this year because of just the, you know, the skill at the top is so immense is that it's easy to forget that he is so, so good. Like the hockey IQ is through the roof. And when you when you add that into a six foot three center who has everything else,

all those other physical tools too, it's he's going to be a very, very good player. And he's, he maybe has outside of Badaard the highest floor of anyone in this class. Yep. I agree with that. Okay.

Well, fourth overall pick for me here for the San Jose Sharks. not necessarily the player I think they will take, but we're going off of my board and my rankings here. So I will take Madh Vey Michkov here. And obviously, I think this is going to be, I mean, I'm sure they're in Nashville this week leading up to the draft. It will be the big talking point, but also on draft day, depending on where he goes. I think there's going to be a lot of interest and excitement in this. We've heard that now that he's there, he's had a couple meetings with teams that are finally getting to meet him and get some intel and kind of figure out what's going to be. and on. We could potentially see, depending on how that process goes, teams like the flyers or the

capitals, even potentially trading up to try to secure him and move maybe ahead of a few other teams. There's a lot of moving parts there. But let's talk about the player because on in terms of on ice production, right, starts the season with St. Petersburg, has the three games, doesn't really get to play or show off his skills, gets loaned over to Sochi and playing for a bad team, delivers on a lot of the hype and expectations we had from in his draft year where he scores nine goals as 20 points and 27 games. And so I don't know, like in terms of just purely evaluating him as a player and a prospect in that profile, do you think it's safe, do you think it's fair to have him as the fourth ranked prospect? Or do you think like in an ideal world where you removed every

single other consideration and let's just say you dropped him into the CHL and he was playing there and you had control over his development, do you think we'd be moving them even higher up the board, or do you think having him at four kind of bakes in a lot of that uncertainty and risk? Oh, it's something that has tortured me all season long. I can tell. It's kept you up in night. It has absolutely. Because, you know, I just said that Leo Carlson has the second highest floor.

Well, Matt Baimishkov has the second highest ceiling in the whole class. And I don't think that that's up for debate. He is, you know, we talk about his goal scoring so much. And the kids never met a puck that he didn't want to show. shoot. He'll shoot from below the goal line and he'll score some of the time from below the goal line. He's got an excellent, excellent shot. But his playmaking might be better. And it was something that concerned me a little bit when he moved over to Sochi is that I was like, oh, he's going to have to be a one-man army. Like they, they are a bad team and they don't have anything to work

with. They actually, like, the loan there sent their best player away when he got there. And so, but he actually, his playmaking took another year. It took another step when he moved over to Sochi. And yeah, you know, he filled the coffers a little bit playing against some dreadful teams over that's where he generated a ton of his points. But I don't care because I don't even really care about the point so much. It's when you watched him play, he was so good against real KHL teams. And he, another one, he's not an elite mover, but he's very, he's good.

You know, I'd call him slightly above average in his skating. But his play creation, his mind for creating offense is second only to Baderd in this class. the hands are great. I talked about the playmaking. I talk about the shot. He's physical, too. He's kind of got a bit of nasty edge to his game. He's got some pushback as well.

If he was in the CHL... I mean, he probably would have scored like 75 goals. Yeah, he would have. But because he's a winger and because he's a little bit smaller, maybe he still wouldn't, maybe he still would be four. He's four on my board as well, but maybe he'd be two because he might have just like squashed any notion of concern. And, you know, I had, I had a scout on the team side, you know, who is in the lottery, a team that was in the lottery there asked me, you know, would you take him at three?

And I was like, man, I would have to be very secure in my job. I would have to probably be a new GM, right? Like who just got the keys to the kingdom and you know that you can, you have that time to wait to get him. Do I support a team taking him at two or three or four? Absolutely. Would I be able to make that decision myself? I'm not sure. So there's so much noise in the periphery when it comes to his game and his just his situation

that really that's where all the intrigue is because on talent alone you could you could easily justify putting him at two and definitely at four. Well, I would argue the GMs at three, four and five have quite a bit of job security, right? Yarmo's obviously bit in Columbus for a long time, but it feels like he is generally given quite a bit of autonomy to do essentially whatever he wants. right now they've shown a bit of desperation this offseason in terms of trading for pro Rob and trading for Severson, extending him. And so I think maybe they're feeling a bit of that pressure, maybe internally to like be at least relevant and fighting for a playoff spot. But for the most part, it feels like he's got a lot of runway or has in the past.

And then certainly, you know, Mike Rear is it relatively new GM? And then it feels like the Hughes and Gordon pairing in Montreal. I know it's a tough market, but they themselves have quite a bit of runway here. to take a long rebuild view of this. So I guess, yeah, like the lack of control over his development in the meantime over these next couple of years, I think is a real concern, right? Because there is stuff to be ironed out and you would like to have a more hands-on approach there.

But the contract for me is much less of a consideration just because, all right, so at the end of 2026, he's going to come over. He'll be 21 years old. You burn the first year of the ELC and then you have him for two, like, sub one million dollar seasons and he's theoretically going to be a top line goal score at that point. That's two, three years from now. Like, that's fine. Like most of these players we're talking about will probably take that much time to develop

anyways, right? We're just talking about how Leo Carlson, who's viewed as kind of this safe pick to go ahead of him is going to take another year in Sweden and then you're going to bring him over and there's probably going to be growing pains where he won't be an impact player immediately for you. I think that's kind of baked into a lot of draft calculus anyways. So for me, I don't know, like the contract stuff, assuming. like there's no reason to believe that once that expires, he won't stay there and he actually

will come over. The existing contract right now is not that big of an issue for me. It's not much of an issue for me either. I have no, I have really no reservations about it. The only thing, the only thing is that you know Scott is going to offer him a ton of money to stay longer. And, you know, at that point, I don't know what his goals are. You know, we saw Kafersoff take a little extra time to come over.

We saw Kuznats off do the same thing. We know that right moments before Vasilipod-Colson was drafted, that they offered him a five-year deal for big money. So they're not afraid to throw some big money at young players that they want to keep at home in that, especially in that system and that organization. So that's a bit of a risk without, you know, but I'm sure these teams are talking to me like,

do you want to come over at the end of this three years? Like, you know, are you willing to take a pay cut for a couple of years and then you'll reach the moon? And if he gives the proper answers there, the no problem. the biggest concern is not being able to have your hands on him developmentally. Because he has some bad habits. There's no doubt about that.

Let's talk about those bad habits then. Let's work our way through them. So what's the biggest one for you? Is it kind of the low percentage plays or is it the defense? Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a bit of both. It's a low percentage plays for sure. Like I said, he's never met a puck and didn't want to shoot.

And he's going to have to, that's going to have to come out of his game, is that he's not going to be able to be firing these pox from the goal line, trying to pick corners that are a puck size. he'll need to be he'll need to develop his game become more layered and more complex in that regard and then yes the defensive effort is it can be there it can be there he shows that he can do it but it also it comes and goes kind of at a win and so you'd like to see more consistency there and that's something that you get as you as you age and you mature and you get into a good system and you have good coaching and he's going to get that with scah they're a team that looks to win

Like they're not there. It's not a developmental organization. They, they're to win championships. Excuse me. And so, you know, if he doesn't do those things,

he's probably going to see his minutes get cut. Like, I'll be surprised if he's a first liner on their club next year. So he'll probably still have to earn his stripes a little bit. So that's the only real thing that bothers me a bit is that you would love to be able to talk to them and to really help mold that and have them in a North American system would be good too. But, you know, you can't have everything.

And so, yeah, Those are the kind of the risk factors. And even at that, he's the fourth-ranked player on my board and for good reason. Yeah. On the defensive play stuff, like obviously you want to reach a certain baseline, I guess, just in terms of effort, like being in the frame when the puck is around in your zone, it certainly helps.

But for the most part, it's like, it's not really what you're drafting him before, right? You're drafting them to do all the stuff that is very hard to find and is generally very expensive on the open market. And so this gets you that. And he's really good at those things. and the low percentage stuff in the play selection, like I'm sure that will be ironed out over time. I'm generally okay with like young players

just experimenting and trying stuff because you sort of need to test the outer boundaries. And even you watch someone like Nikita Kutrov now and how long into his career he's been and how successful he's been at the NHL level, you'll catch him on a given night. And you can like three plays in and be like, all right, this is going to be a tough night.

And it's because he's like just no look flat, like throwing the puck into the middle. of the ice and trying all these wild plays. And if his rhythm or timing is off a little bit and it's just not working and he's not feeling it, it's going to look disastrous. And then all of a sudden, it takes just one of those plays connecting on a tape-to-tay pass where it's happened. And you're like, all right, you know what?

Those four disastrous plays were actually worth it because there's a handful of players in the world that can do what he just did. And so, you know, different players because while the distributing is certainly improved, I think Mitchcock Pro Bowles is a bit more of a shooter than Kutraub was generally looking at pass it, but that stuff just sort of applies for me. So something to think about, okay, you're up with the, with the fifth pick here for the Montreal Canadiens. I'm curious to see what you're going to do.

Yeah. So this is where we got to like hedge a little bit because, you know, I know that we're picking what we would do, but I also think we do need to blend in a little bit of reality. What you think will happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, if it's, if it's me and I'm going just off my board, I'm taking Zach Benson.

but I do not think that Montreal is taking Zach Benson. I just don't think it fits with what they're building there right now, is that the smaller skilled player, they have a couple of those already. So I'll go just one notch down, and I'm going to go Ryan Leonard. And I think that that's a very viable spot for him to go. I think that they're looking very strongly at him. I also think that they're looking really, really strongly. David Reinbacker, but I don't have them this high up, so I'm not going to go there.

I'm going to go Ryan Leonard. He's everybody's watched what Matt Kachuk just did. Everybody's going to want to get the next Matt Kachuk. He's not Matthew Kachuk. If he was 6'2, maybe he'd have a chance to be at that level one day. But he is 5'11. He's going to play at 200 plus pounds. He puts guys on their butts playing against NCAA competition this year.

He hits. He hits hard. He's got a great release off the rush. He's really, really intelligent on creating plays, on finishing plays, when to land in spots. You know, he played on the wing this season. He played center at the U-17 level. I think if Montreal takes him here or whoever does take them,

that they'll probably look to move him into the middle. I actually think there's a good chance he might move to the middle next year, and they might put Will Smith onto the wing. They're going to school together. I could see that being a possibility. He's a little more defensively responsible. He's a little sturdier. He could probably handle that role really well.

He gets in the trenches. He's a player that you can imagine winning with in the playoffs. He's just this hard skill guy who's, steps up his game in big moments. I'm driving pop off that rush. I love it. He's a really fun player. And I think another one of these guys that is maybe not elite at anything,

but really, really good at almost everything. I think if you are Montreal, and by the way, the betting markets have Ryan Leonard as the favorite to go for the overall right now. Oh, and I believe if the haves don't take him, we'd obviously have to see what else happened in terms of the board shaking out. But he probably would not slip by the Philadelphia Ploss.

at 7. Here's my question for you, though. I think if you're Montreal, you have to be confident that he is going to be a center just because of the organizational baggage of like options they've passed up previously. And then now it looks like Pierraloup Duval will be going to L.A., right? And it's like, you've had all these opportunities to bring in another top flight center to at least kind of help Nick Suzuki a little bit so that he doesn't have to do everything and kind of have that one to punch down the middle. And if he's going to be a winger, that's obviously can still be very valuable and useful, as you mentioned, especially if you're comparing him to the Kachuk brothers. But if you think like Will Smith is more of the center, for example, and you go and Leonard winds up being a winger, that's like a really tough pill to swallow in my opinion. but it seems like you're pretty confident that whether it's next year or in the future, like we will see him playing down the middle.

I wouldn't take my reputation on it. Well, it seems like that's what the Canadians are going to have to do. Well, they would have to probably, you're right. I guess they're in control of that, of making sure that happens, though. Well, yeah, you can't force a round peg into a square hole, though, but I think that there's enough there to indicate that it is a very viable possibility. You know, there's a lot of kids in this class. with a C next to their name that won't be centers in the NHL.

And then there's a kid like this who played wing, who probably has a better chance of playing the middle of the ice, then Zach Benson does, who played the middle of a ton. So it's, yeah, I think that that's something that if they take him at five, that they'll want him to do. And that they'll, you know, they won't get to say where he plays next year. But I think that they'll have some suggestions maybe. Let's try him in the middle.

Let's see how it goes. You know, give him some reps down there, too, before he comes out of school. too. So yeah, I think it's really interesting that he's the odds on favorite to go five because if I'm betting, I'd say he probably doesn't. I'd say he slips down to six or seven. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I had, let me just consult my board here. I think I had Will Smith going fifth to the haves and then I have Ryan Leonard going to 7th to Philly. But I could totally see it as well here. Like I initially entered this process being ready to push back and like hate the pick because I was just like I feel like this is just

going to be valued for like all the wrong reasons but then clearly as the year went along he added different nuances to his game and improved and like added a lot of substance beyond just all the all the sort of like grit and stuff like right then in terms of like just the his ability to not necessarily be kind of like one track or unilateral in terms of creation mixing in some off speed stuff growing as a facilitator as we mentioned And then obviously, like, being able to get to the inside is something that's always going to be valued, even though he doesn't have the size of the kachucks. So, yeah, I like it quite a bit. I honestly can't hate on it, especially if you think he will be playing down the middle.

So it's pretty excited. We were as a, I guess, as a collective, I'm going to add myself since I do work at E.P. Ringside, we were pretty high on him, right? We had him the highest on our guide of all of the NTDP guys. We did. Yes. Yeah, he was our top right guy. we had him number six.

So ahead of Smith, ahead of pro, ahead of more, yeah. Yeah. So choolsy. So toolsy. Yes.

Yeah. Okay. Let's, oh, we're running out of time here for part one. My next pick might take us like 20 minutes here to get through. So you know what? Let's do it.

Let's squeeze it in. I've got the six pick here for the Arizona Coyotes. And I think if the board went this way, I would probably project them to take David Reimbocker. But since this exercise is what we want to do and not what we think the teams will do, I'm going to take Zach Benson here for them. Yes.

And I just, I love this player so much. I'm very concerned already to see where he's going to go in this draft. It was at least comforting about to see that on Bob McKenzie's a big board, I believe he had him at ninth, which means that at least teams are valuing him in the top 10 for a while. was worried that we might see him slip into the teens. But man, I just think he checks so many boxes. The concerns aren't really justified in my opinion because I think that all of the other

nuances to his game will kind of compensate for that where he's not just going to be reliant on this one thing. And so all the size stuff is just a non-issue for me. And otherwise, if you strip that away, he is just an absolutely phenomenal player. I love Zach Benson. So number five on my board. he is maybe the best motor

in the whole crop and like he said not the biggest guy but like he just takes a licking and keeps on ticking like he'll pop right back up and he gets right back in the corners and he's fighting for pucks

and he's digging he's you know we've often said Sidney Crosby's like the ultimate grinder like the perfect grinder you know Benson's got a little of that in his game is that he's he is about an average skater right now we'd love it

he had Braden Point's feet. But to be fair, Braden Point didn't have brain points feet when he was a draft eligible either. He was a step ahead of where Benson did now, but he improved on that level. And so that's he's going to need to take that next step with his skating and his edge work and his acceleration

to stay in the middle of the ice. If he doesn't, that's okay. He is a tremendous two-way player. He has great defensive habits. His passing is so good. Like his playmaking ability, his ability to read the plays and set things up

and distribute through lanes and through folds, hit and streaking players, changing gears to open up those spaces. It's second to Bajd, I would say, in this class. He is so, so talented. And, you know, I was also happy to see that McKenzie's scout list had him at 9 there. But I still think he's going to slide out of the top 10. I think the teams aren't going to be able to help themselves

and reach on a defender. And then another team in that zone is going to be like, ah, we wanted that defender. And they're going to reach out a defender. And they're going to look at them as a smaller winger. and in a crop that has a lot of good center options and teams just can't help themselves. They need to draft defensemen,

even if it's ahead of guys that are better. I think he's going to be sitting there at 11, 12, maybe even 13. And when that happens, I'm going to be visibly upset in Nashville on the draft floor. But the team who gets him is going to be very, very pleased because in two or three years, they're going to have a first-line caliber player who can also play really staunch defense and probably develops into a PK asset

and can play in all situations for you and be a leader and he's a smart kid. I've heard nothing but great things about his character, but his work ethic. I've had a chance to talk to him. He's got a good head on his shoulders. He's eloquent. I like him a lot. Statistically at least,

I think there's slightly different players in terms of actual playing style on ice, but statistically, like he's been compared to BrainPoint a lot and I'm with you. And brain points similarly needed to make those advancements. And by his D plus three season, he was full time in the NHL and was a much different skater. than he was at this level of his development. But Seth Jarvis in 2020, like literally had the exact same production at the same size.

Now, I think, I think Jarvis maybe is a bit more annoying or meaner in some ways. But for the most part, and then you see him by his D plus two season, and he slipped to 13th in his draft by his D plus two season. He's a full-time, basically top line player for the Hurricanes. Should also note that I believe Zach Benson is on the younger side for this class. and I think he's got a bit more runway for physical development as well compared to some of his other peers who are like five or six months older than him. I just like we had him ranked second on our scalp pole, second best vision in this class,

first best motor, first best two way forward, elite hockey sense. Mitch's tracking had him in the hundredth percentile in passes successfully threaded to the slot. And so I just like the skill is obviously one thing. I think when you watch and play, it looks very Clayton Kellerish

in terms of like his playmaking where he's dancing around with the puck on a stick but then he's also an elite guy off the puck in terms of his forechecking and ability to disrupt and all those things we love. And so I love all of those things about him. I guess the one concern, the combination of the frame and skating,

just purely in terms of like in the notes we had stuff about how when he looks bad or human or not like Zach Benson in capital letters, it's when the game slows down a bit in terms of like him feeling pressure and then all of a sudden the advantages that he creates are smaller and shrink and sometimes he can not like he can't really shake you and so in that sense it's it's a bit tougher for him to do what he wants to do with a puck and obviously once he makes it

at NHL unless he does take a big jump in skating you presume that'll happen much more often in terms of the way he's defended so I guess maybe that would be give me a little pause just purely in terms of labeling him as a can't miss stud at the top of the lineup. But based on all the other skill sets, I'm willing to bet on him finding a way to grow as a player and work around that. And so I had him just like you did as fifth on my board. And so I'm glad that he fell to sixth here in this exercise. Yeah, there are two things need to happen for him to really reach his ceiling.

And number one is going to be easy. He needs to put on weight. He needs to get stronger. Because he wants to play in the middle of the ice, right? like he's not a perimeter player. No, no. And yeah, he gets into those areas and sometimes he just gets bounced. But that's just going to happen.

He's going to put on the strength. It's just going to take some time. And when that happens, there's a very good chance that it is going to improve his skating, that he is going to become from an average skater to a slightly above average skater. We hope that he could be even a little higher than that too. So adding that strength, he's a very slight kid right now. But he doesn't shy away from the hard zones where a player like Will Smith, who is bigger.

is a little more shy about driving hard to the pain, is a little bit shy about getting into the corner sometimes when he's meeting a big defender or some pressure like that too. Andrew Kristol, same thing, slightly bigger, but a little more softer skill than Benson. So I think that he's got the will, and now it's just a matter of getting the physical tools to match up with it so that he can succeed at the NHL level.

Yep. Okay, Cam, let's end part one here of our mock draft. We got through six picks. We will jump over to part two. and we'll finish out the rest of the lottery picks. Looking forward to that, you're listening to the HockeyPedio guest streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.