The Hockey PDOcast - 2023 Mock Draft: Part 2

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

Cam Robinson joins Dimitri to do a mock of all 16 lottery picks at this year's draft. In part one they did the first 5 picks, in this one they finish up by doing picks 6 through 16.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

addressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. Joining me once again is my good buddy, Cam Robinson, to keep our 2023 mock draft going in part one. We did the first six picks and talked about what kind of stuff we're looking for and what we value in the process in putting our boards together.

Now we're going to dive right back into pick seven. So Cam, you're on the board here for the Philadelphia Flyers. I will, I'll give you the first. floor. Okay. Danny Breyer's Newmontown. They're looking for skill.

They're going, they're not playing it safe. I don't think this is someone else who's got a lot of security in his job. We should say, if Matt V. Mischoff's there, I think that this is a real good chance that they could take him at seven, too.

But for this exercise, the slide's going to stop. We're taking Will Smith. I think that, you know, we've mentioned him a few times. His offensive play creation is very, very high.

So, you know, we talked about Benson in the last episode, rating in the high, 100th percentile for slot passes per 60. Will Smith rated out, I believe, at the 100th percentile as well on Mitch's tracking. He's got the potential to be a very, very high-end player with his combination of puck handling, passing, and offensive IQ.

The skating is average. For me, maybe just a hair below average. Some people might say, you know, a hair above average, but I think that there's, this is another player who as he adds weight and physically matures that that'll that'll clean up anyways um the kind of the the the knock on him is that competitiveness um is that you know we rated him as a four for physicality and and that kind of bleeds into his competitive nature um you know i've talked to a scout who who questioned who watched the game and then had a chat with them afterwards and kind of question like hey how come you weren't able to get to the slot how come you weren't able to fight through those

things. And, you know, his response wasn't all that wasn't all that well put together either that he, you know, he kind of got his backup against it. And it's a kid who's found success everywhere he's went. And so he hasn't really been challenged all that much. And he's going to be challenged. He's going to be challenged next year at school a little bit, but it'll be the NHL where it really kicks in. He's number seven on my board. He's going to go number seven right here to Philly in this mock draft of ours. And he does have the goods to be a playmaking, slick first line center. The big, big question is, is he going to be one of these guys that's going to get the easier points and kind of fade away when things get tough? Or is he going to be able to elevate that competitiveness and then leverage all those terrific skills that he has into a really sublime kind of playmaking pivot?

Yeah, Will Smith, the Fresh Prince. I suspect that he will not be available still on the board at 7th overall. I would expect him to go either fourth or fifth. the butt. Yeah, I mean, obviously, if he's available here, it's a no-brainer, five points. He had 127 points in 60 games for NTDP, five points behind his teammate, Gabe, Bro, who I'm sure we're going to talk more later for most in a single season in three fewer games, more than Matthews and Hughes and Keller and pretty much everyone that's gone through that system.

You know, I think the visible appeal of his game, as you've described, is very obvious, right? in the guide we we uh we called him a human highlight real like his ability to just like turn something that doesn't necessarily need to be cool into something very special is i imagine part of why we had him what do we have as as his kind of comps or shades of it was like j t miller and trevor zegris uh yeah what was yeah that's two slightly different players in in my opinion but uh yeah very much so um but yeah no certainly for like the zegra's comp in that case makes a lot of sense um the skill blending, right? His ability to be doing something, whether it's like trying to dangle through someone and then all of a sudden turn it into a pass is it comes together so cleanly. I guess the

knock on him as well was beyond just not necessarily having blazing speed in terms of the way he wants to play off the rush that way. It was kind of a lack of discretion as well, right? It's kind of similar to I guess what we talked about with Mitch Kov, not in terms of just throwing Pucks on Nett from everywhere, but kind of sometimes trying to get a little too cute and do too much with it. Yeah, absolutely. He's definitely guilty of that. But I, especially against the junior level, but, you know, at the U-18s, tremendous, tremendous. He's fortunate, too, right, to play with Ryan Leonard and Gabe Perrault. Those three had such amazing chemistry and they built each other up so well. They played so well together. But against NCAA competition, he, he cleaned up some of

those mistakes, too, from my viewings too. And he played really, really well against some top div one schools there, too, which is always a good sign. So, yeah, I was a little bit lower on him than some scouts. And I kind of pushed back a little bit. I did his film room at EP this year. So I watched a ton of his tape. I liked a lot of it. I didn't like some of it.

But, you know, you take the wide lens view on it. And you're looking long term is that there is a lot of ingredients here that could make him a very high, productive player. Maybe someone who's going to produce more than those that we've taken already in this draft. It's just there is a little bit of a question. question mark about about what kind of player he's going to be in the postseason and and you know i talked about ryan lennard being being that kind of guy that you can envision really stepping up his game um this one we're he's going to have to prove that he's he has that same ability to yeah that that kind of idea of him trying to do stuff that probably has like little to no chance of success

and that driving uh evaluators and people who are watching crazy it feels like we have like at least one guy from the development program every year that fits that bill right didn't we have this exact conversation me, you and, uh, and CP last year about, I believe Logan Cooley. And I think at the time,

I don't want to misquote it, but I believe Chris Peters was a little bit, not a lukewarm on the player. He obviously had Cooley very high, but he was like, I don't know, it kind of bugs me when, when he does this stuff.

And then I just think that, that's, that's sort of like part of the curse. Like there's, with the program, sometimes you're playing against certain competition, and you're just kind of bored, so you're just trying to show out and,

and do crazy stuff. And it's not necessarily a knock on you as a player. So to hear you say that when he was playing against NCAA competition and better players, the fact that he did tighten some of that stuff up would give me confidence that that's probably more representative of what he is as a player as opposed to some of the overly loosey-goosey stuff. Yeah, and I think that's fair. And it's funny because there was actually two players on the program last year who did this and they just took turns doing it. And so Frankie Nazar did at the beginning of the season while Kulay was playing more of a straight-up game. And then they switched halfway through.

And Nazar started to play the straight-up game and Kooley started to go bananas and try all the creative stuff. So yes, it is part and parcel of just, you know, they're, they're the best players in the States and their age group. And then they get thrown against all this USHL competition that for the most part, they're not at the same level. So yeah, it's inevitable that they're going to try some funky stuff when you're a high-scale player like that. And you do want to encourage that. You want creativity. You want to push the limits and see what you can do at this level and what you can achieve and to build that confidence. And this is the kid who has confidence in spades.

It's like there is, he is very, very confident in his abilities. And I think that you need that to be a star player too, that you need to really believe that you can be the best. And I don't think there's any doubt that he believes he could be a very, very good NHL player. And I believe Cooley, if we did a redraft one year later, would be a consensus first overall pick after a very, very successful season. Okay, eighth overall Washington Capitals. I'm going to go a bit off the board here because I'm following my rankings. I had the Washington Capitals taking Dimitri Simashev. I love it.

And not just because he obviously has a phenomenal first name. But 18 KHL games, right, zero points, 33 MHL games, one goal, 11 assists. And so you kind of, I understand it's tough to reconcile like that level of production with a ranking this high. And then also when you watch and play and you sort of hear about it and read the physical tools he has as a player where he's like this six foot four defenseman with an incredible wingspan that just covers breathtaking amount of ice and just moves so freely and smoothly across the ice.

And then you're like, okay, how is he not producing more, especially at the level he's playing at? Now, towards the end of the year, I do believe, like, he ramped up his production a little bit there. But regardless of that, I just think that lack of production doesn't really dissuade me at all because, listen, like, measuring defensemen and their impact and contribution by point totals, like just exclusively is obviously fraught with error. But especially in this case, where I think the goal of this exercise for us and for teams that are drafting isn't necessarily

to be like, all right, well, we're drafting based on what these guys have done already. It's projecting forward, what is he going to look like and produce in two to three years, three to four years, and then for the next decade after that. And so that's why teams bet on tools, And that's why we are so excited about this player. And so I have him as the number one defenseman on my board. I've talked to teams that you can pretty much whoever you talk to you can find a different name amongst the defensemen that they're valuing there. But I just think I'm so excited about the skill set and the potential and the translatability where even if the offense never comes together, all of those things we mentioned are still going to make him such an impact defender at NHL level when he comes over that I think this is the part of the draft where you kind of. kind of need to take a shot on him because I think the days are past where you can wait

till the mid teens and hope he kind of falls to you. Like I think someone will take him probably sooner than we were ready for a couple weeks ago. I sure hope so because I've got the spot on my board too and he's the top rate of defense and for me too. You said everything that needs to be set. The fact that he played minutes in the KHL facing KHL forwards as a 17 year old and handling them off the rush, handling them in zone, laying the body like he hits, he hits, he hits hard. But the skating, it is so fluid. It looks like he's not going all that hard because

his strides are just so long and fluid and powerful and it generates so much speed. You know, we rated him number one neutral zone defender, number one shutdown defender, third best four way mobility, fourth best straight line skater, fifth best transition defenseman. And that's with him not really being a transition defenseman. He just has a great first path and he can he can break and shake pressure with his agility and not many 6'4 defensemen can do that. I've been saying Kjandro Miller all year. That's what we got him on the shades of for the guide to, is that Chondra Miller had that same thing.

He was just this raw piece of clay, this athletic, large, wonderful skater that you're like, what could this be? And this is what Dmitzsche-Semishev is too, because if the offense doesn't come, which I still think it will, because he was very, very snake-bitten early on in the season. He should add a lot more points.

And then, like you said, they did ramp up in the back half of the season. But even if it doesn't, even if he ends up being like a 20-point defenseman just chisling off getting secondary assist, he could literally be an all-world stopper on your first pair on the left side, playing in all situations, playing 27 minutes a night, chewing up minutes, chewing up bodies. So, so much value there. Like, I love him. I'm a big, big fan.

And so I would applaud this selection at 8. But I wonder if he's going to be there at 14, 15, 16. Well, Giondri is a good comp because even when you watch him play now a couple years into his NHO career, like he is a top line or a top top pair of defenseman who's going to get paid very richly this summer. And yet still, like you watch him and it can be frustrating at times because he moves so freely and he has these like end-to-end rushes where he just gets up the ice and it's like, oh my God, like this guy's unstoppable. Why doesn't he do this all the time? And then he goes back to 10 games of never trying to do that again, right? and you're like, ah, I just wish it's so tantalizing.

I wish he would do it. And I think he's still growing into that and picking his spots and becoming more comfortable doing so. But even in the absence of that, he's been such an impactful defender because of those physical tools. And that's kind of what you would get from, from Simashev here, because it seems by all accounts, right? Like the points aren't there, but it's not for a lack.

Like, it's not like he treats the puck like a hand grenade, right? Like it's like he has handling chops. It's not necessarily for a lack of that. It's just a matter of, I guess, aggression. and sort of activating himself that way. I guess similar to what we said about Michkov, though, like for a player like this who is so malleable right now, the next two or three years are going to be the most important ones of his career

in terms of actually becoming that player. And if he's going to be playing overseas and you won't have access to him and an ability to control that development, that would be a bit scary. But just based on the tools, it's kind of hard to envision him at least not being, like a good second pair defender. So I'm very excited about him and I can't wait to see where he goes.

But I thought that the fit, especially with the Russian connection for the capitals, if they can't get Mitchcov, is an interesting backup. Okay. Ninth overall for you here. I will let you make a pick. Okay. So he'll go earlier than this. But we'll take him here anyways.

It's David Reinhberger. And so, you know, we always laugh at the goalie run. You and I, whenever it happens in the second or third, well, this will be our D run maybe here. So he's one of these players that you just know is going to be a very quality NHL player. Maybe he's not a first pair guy. Maybe he's a really strong second pair defender for you. But, you know, six foot two, got the pro body. Right shot defenseman.

It's the hardest asset to acquire. He hits and he hits hard and he looks for. they hit and he finishes an open ice and he you know guys are afraid to go into the corner guys are afraid to take him down on his wing he has he has the ability to make a really strong first pass but it's inconsistent at this stage which is one of the things that bothers me the most about his game which there isn't a ton that really bothers me i have him at nine but i think that he is he's going to be he's going to be a really really strong player and he's probably going to be the first d man taken off the board because teams are looking at

looking at him as if he's maybe more excited. He's not, I don't think so anyways. I don't think he's going to have that level of offense to his game, but, you know, he's a plus rated skater. He's got a heavy shot. His passing is fine right now. He doesn't have great handles, but he has good hockey sense, too. And, like, he can kill plays off the rush, in zone, physical.

Like I said, we're just rattling off these things. You know, he played in a men's league all season long, so he's well adjusted to playing. Not only that, but led them in ice time, I believe, right? Yes, it played big, big minutes for sure. Oh, yeah, he was not sheltered in the least. So, yeah, and I do think that there is offensive upside in there, too, that you can see it from time to time. He can shake and bake on that transition.

I like his rush when he has the puck more than I like him when he's transitioning it with the pass. So I'd like him to elevate his passing and vision a little bit better, and then just amp up his rushing because he is such a quality skater that I think he can create with his feet a lot more. And to be fair, it's like he was 17 playing in a top, well, not a top. Well, he was 18 because he's an older birthday, but playing in a pro league. And it's like, you know, it's, you don't, you don't expect a guy like that to really get overly creative.

He's, his mind is going to be keeping the puck out of the net more so at this level. So hopefully as he gets more comfortable and he grows, he'll be more of an offensive threat. Yeah, that level of responsibility and workload in a pro league like that is obviously impressive. A very modern defender. Like, I really like the defensive. technique that I've seen on tape, like just like his attacking mentality and like how he can obviously dislodge you from the puck and a six foot two right shot defenseman, as we know time and time again and hear about and see every year is going to be valued very highly by teams. So I do think

that most teams would have him as the number one defenseman on their board and I would expect him to go ahead of Simashev. I just, I do worry a little bit about the upside of the offensive chops. Like just in terms of the puck handling, he certainly could grow. into that. Like there's nothing stopping him from becoming a bit more creative in the Ozone, especially since you do see like he's not a zero in that regard on the breakout. Like he can make the first play and he can make someone miss. But I think there's a lot of work to do there. And I think if you're talking about him firmly in the top 10 and potentially even in the top five or six of a class this loaded with the upside of some of the players bandied about in that area, I do worry a little

bit that he doesn't necessarily have the same level of upside. But clearly, he's a prototype that is valued very highly and his floor is also very safe. I have no doubt that he will be playing valuable minutes in the NHL. It's just a matter of your mileage, I guess, on like how high that ceiling is. For sure. And I will preface too saying that, you know, this is a Detroit's pick. And I don't expect them to go D at that spot, but you never know, right? Like, they took Simone Evanston in 21. They took Mozider at 19. So, you know, they've already gone. big on the blue line on each side. So what's another big right shot defenseman added to the pipeline that's never going to hurt?

You want to have a surplus of those things. But yeah, if we're doing a true mock, they'd probably lean on one of those higher upside forwards, which would probably be a good thing for them to do as well. Okay. Well, I will, I'm up on the clock here for the blues. They at the time of us having this conversation, at least still have the 10, 25, and 29 picks. So they have three first rounders. Now the caliber of player here is going to be.

obviously much higher than in those later ones. I am a bit thrown off because I had David Reimbacher going to them on my board at 10th overall. So now I got to readjust. And I guess I just based on how we're doing this exercise, I got to take the player that I had ranked one spot ahead of them with Detroit taking him at number nine. And I know this is going to bug you quite a bit because you are lower on them.

But I have them taking all over more. Oh, okay. So, okay, first off, where do you have? You have in like the late teens, I believe, right? Yeah, 19, 19, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, I get it. I get it.

Like, I, the conversation of like floor versus upside in terms of like whether he's just going to be sort of like a valuable still third liner who lugs the puck up the ice and kind of just like gives you 14 to 16 productive minutes as opposed to actually being, a top flight score that's playing a significant role beyond that and actually creating for others and putting it all together. That's obviously a big leap to take. And I think that's certainly why he's so divisive. I just, and this is the, this is the player I was referencing earlier when I said, like, I still value skating maybe a little bit more than you. I just, I don't know, man. I cannot, I can't shake how good of a skater he is, like how freely he moves up and down the ice

and how explosive he is. Obviously, his hands don't necessarily, at least for now, keep up with his feet. And so he's going to have to change the way he plays. Otherwise, he's going to be one of these players who, a very Carolina Hurricanes-esque player where he has like 20 expected goals, but only like 14 to show for it. And it's never going to change.

But I don't know. I just, in terms of the skating ability, I can't shake it. And that's why I have them as a, at the back end of my top 10, but as the 9th or 10th prospect on my board. Yeah, and fair enough. And, you know, I know some teams that like them a lot, and they think that, you know,

that he's not quite Dylan Larkin because he doesn't have the physical side to his game that Larkin had. But, you know, Larkin had some warts in his game, too, as a draft Deltzable, right? There's a reason he fell out of the top 10. But he had that blazing speed, and obviously he's developed into a really, really good player. I don't see that level of upside.

I see him as more of that player you were describing early is that I think he's probably a winger. I think he's going to be a really good player on the penalty kill. I think he's going to be a quality kind of middle six guy that's going to be able to chipping some offense and going to be able to drive play with his feet. But you're not going to be, he's not going to be Nick Eilers in transition.

I don't think. I don't think he's going to be that level in transition. I don't think he has that kind of shot. That would be probably your best case scenario for him, I think because I do think he probably moves over. I just don't trust the brain. He makes a lot of decisions with the puck that I don't agree with, and he misses a lot of really high-end possibilities.

And those two things really kind of aggravate me, which leads me to believe that his ceiling's probably going to be a little bit lower. And I am on an island at EP with that view, is that most of our, almost everyone else had him in the top 10 and felt like he could be a first-line player and will be in the middle of the ice, where I kind of digress against that and push back against that. And at the end of the day, he's higher up on our board. And so on my personal list, you know, I had to kick him down,

maybe even an extra spot lower just to just to rub it in their noses. Well, and that's totally fair. And I completely understand everything you just diagram there. I will say, though, not that this affects our rankings by any means, but I would be pretty surprised if he draw past 13. I think he will be gone by then or if not at 13. But so I don't think he'll fall into the late teens. how do we weigh the fact that he wasn't didn't get to play on that like top line that was just having so much fun amongst the three of them like it is it possible that just because of the players he was playing with it look different like next year he's going to Minnesota I believe right what if he gets to actually okay let's say he gets bumped into the wing and then obviously that opens up a different conversation in terms of his value but all of a sudden he gets a step into that Matthew and I's role with local.

and Cooley coming back and he potentially plays with him. Obviously, you'd think like, okay, well, he hasn't used his teammates well. He's going to struggle to play with a guy with Huckooley's kind of like brain and creativity. But I'm curious to see that. And obviously, that would change quite a bit. But we can't, we unfortunately have to make our decision on him before we get to see that play out. Yeah. I mean, obviously, that would be tremendous if he slid up there and ended up playing with

Kooley and Snuggiero. Like, how much fun would that be? And that's going to obviously elevate his production. but, you know, definitely not being able to have access to those frontline players that even strength impacted his scoring. For sure. You know, oftentimes he was playing with not even really viable NHL prospects. You know, he did get James Higgins, who's a top rated 2025 kid, and Cole Eisenman, who's a top rated 2024 kid, they came up and they played together for stretches. And, you know, surprise, surprise, they look great. But it didn't really change my perspective of him with his decision making, even being surrounded by high-end.

players. And, you know, I'm probably going to get some depth players from J.D. over here when I'm talking about it. But he's just not my favorite player. He's just not the guy. He's giving me the thumbs down right now. Yeah. So it's just not, it's the mind needs to catch up with the, with the feet and the hands. And that's just, it's just have to happen if he's going to be able to reach his ceiling. And so for me, I hedge more. I think he's more Otto Stenberg than he is Will Smith. well if jd was on this show he would have had ryan leonard first overall so yeah take back yeah i don't know i i have seen the brain and the sort of processing is certainly concerning i have seen players who came to the nchl who played way too fast for their means

find a way to slow down a little bit and actually pick their spots right and learn as you get into your mid-20s that less is more and sometimes like stopping up and cutting back and using your teammates and not necessarily just going full blast all the time and relying on your speed can actually give you more gains but um i don't know i'm very curious one of the more fascinating prospects in this class certainly just in terms of also the divisiveness um of opinion okay cam let's uh let's jump to break here and then when we come back we will uh finish up this whatever 11 to 16 range uh you were listening to the hockey Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.

The most comprehensive Canucks coverage in the city. Canucks Central with Dan Ritio and Satyar Shah. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. We're back here on the Hockey Ptodcast with Cam Robinson. We're closing out our mock draft of lottery cam. We've made it to the 11th pick finally. The Vancouver Canucks, you are on the clock here for them.

Given the players that are available left, who do you have with this pick? this is a tough one for me because I've got two players that are sitting back to back on my board that I know Vancouver likes a lot and I think both are viable options for them um one of them is Nate Danielson right of course yeah you know you know I've got him in my top 10 uh no it's uh it's either Tom willander vlander or it's stalwart divorce and and and I I think I'm going to go the safe route I'm going to go divorcee even though he's 11 on my board and I got V-Lander 10. I'm going to give Divorcey just because I also think that Vancouver would do that too. So, Delvore Dvorseky, he is this true matchup center prospect. So he's got the pro size, the pro frame. He plays the middle of the ice. He's a he's a north-south mover. I did the film room on him for this year and I think I tracked all of his goals and like something like 86% of

them came from the slot area or the net front. Like this guy lives in the hard areas of the ice. played a season in the Olsvanskin for the most part. So a pro league that isn't very far behind the SHL. A lot of people see it as in second tier in that. And it is, but it's very, very close. Like some of the best Olsvanskin teams are right there with the SHL clubs. So he's not far off. You know, he's got a mature two-way game.

He's got a heavy shot. He's got pretty good hands. He's got pretty good wheels. He's a very good prospect who had a really great showing at the end of the year at the U8 teams. I know teams really, really liked him before that anyways, but I think that that really elevated to stock up a lot more. So I would be surprised if he's at this,

he's available at this spot. But if he is, you know, I think Vancouver takes him. Another player that you just wish he was a righty too, because, you know, everybody wants that right shot center. But, you know, he's physical. He produces, you know, coming into his graph minus one season, he looked like he could have been a top five pick because he was really flashing some high, high end production at the J20.

and you know he did it this year too i think he was over two points a game playing at the junior level this year a goal a game um so against his peer group the kid knows how to put up monster numbers and then when you elevate up to the else ventigan um then then then the numbers take a bit of a hit but um really really strong player we gave him shades of leis uh leis uh leithin holman bull horvatt um he's he's going to be he's going to be kind of a power forward center prospect um that banker desperately needs and so i think this would be a really good fit for them at 11 yeah i think he'll be gone by then because Bob McKenzie had him at 7th on his board and that tells me that he's got intel from teams that they're pretty high on them and it makes sense right everything you illustrated

there and I think for the Klox in particular I mean they can't really go wrong with adding a center or a defenseman into their system because they need both positions so badly but in this case I do really like the player like I don't have too many notes on him but I do find him as an interesting interesting talent because you mentioned he had a bit of like an up and down year but a strong finish for Slovakia and you see it particularly at the international events like the competitiveness right and like especially like the leadership role for a player who's younger for this class he compared himself to a lot of the a lot of the comparisons for these players when they talk about themselves they always like compare themselves to like the flashiest or like you know top end players and

this guys obviously used to be a former first overall pick and has had a phenomenal career But Duvorski compared himself to John Tavares, and I found that kind of interesting because you sort of see, like, you mentioned like where he gets his goals from and production from and where he's attacking and kind of how he protects the puck and how strong he is on it. That does make a little bit of sense. So I don't think he necessarily has that skill level. And that's why he's available where he is at this point in the draft as opposed to being in the conversation for first overall. But still a very exciting prospect. And so it makes sense. I guess here's my question for you from the Connect's perspective.

let's play this out though because I mentioned that they need a center of defenseman so badly and that's what they're valuing a guy who we had fifth overall on our board and Zach Benson local kid if he was available here do you think they would be intrigued enough to take him even though he's clearly the best player available or do you think that they would revert back to that organizational need you're pain right now I am pained right now because at my very core I'm an optimist I I'm I like to believe the best in people All season long, I was extremely dubious that if Benson happened to be available for Vancouver, you know, this is when they looked like they were going to be picking in the top six or seven,

that they would pass them. They don't love to take smaller players, shorter players, I should say, and they don't really love to go out of the West early. Now, that said, they took them up for dinner at the Combine. And so that shows at the very least they are interested. And I think about that. They also took Nate Danielson out for dinner. Well, they're very interested in Nate Danielson.

And we know that. And that's not so good. But they took out a bunch of guys, right? They took out five or six. And Vlander was another one of them that they took out that they liked to. Another right shot defense. So I think if Benson's there and that means that some of these other guys are gone, that there's a chance that they would take him.

But if it came down to Benson or Danielson, do I trust that they would take Benson? I'm not 100%. I hope that they would. If it's Benson and Reinbocker, no, if they're taking Ryanbocker. If it's Benson and Tom Velander, I think they probably take Velander too. They take Dvorsky over him as well. So I think there is worlds where they could end up taking him, but I think it's probably less than likely. Okay.

Well, I have the 12th overall pick here with Arizona Coyote. So obviously this is their second pick that they got from the senators for the Jacob Chickren trade. And hilariously, Pierre Dorian, during his availability today, said that this was the good year to not have a first round pick based on their evaluations. So that was definitely a face saving take that I saw him have. I'm going to go with Tom Wheelander here because he was next on my board. And listen, like, he's shot up quite a bit here recently, but it makes sense, right? Everything you hear, you know, a 6-1 right-shot defenseman who moves well, who has quite the motor

and plays at that pace. And also, I think teams have just fallen in love, right? We heard a ton about how he impressed at the combine, how he interviewed really well. And now he's off to Boston University, I believe, for this coming season. And so that's a big jump for him, but also I think we'll give teams a lot of confidence that they'll have a lot of access and control a topic we keep talking about here in terms of importance for development, especially for some of these toolsy players. And so I would not be surprised to see him go very high, as you mentioned,

depending on who's available if he even went to 11, to the Canucks at 11, but he's the next on my board, so I have him here at 12. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, he was number 10 on my board. So, you know, you said he moves well. He moves very well.

Like, he's a very, very good skater. I actually think we maybe undershot his skating a little bit in the guide this year. I went back and I watched, because he had such a great U-18s and I was like, I'm very much intrigued. I need more views. So even after everything was done and sealed up for our guide,

I went back and watched a ton of tape on him. I really like him because not only is he, does he have that, that offensive capabilities kind of buried under the surface, generates a lot of chances with his feet. He can move the puck well. He can dart in and out of plays and stuff like that. But he's also really,

really mean. He hits guys all the time. He's always finishing his checks. He's, you know, grinding the spine down guys, the net front and then clearing that crease out. And he's doing it. And at 6-1 and 180 pounds.

And so you have to imagine that he's going to be playing probably closer to 200 pounds. And he's going to be a heavy defenseman to move around out there and someone that teams aren't going to want to mess with even though he's not 6'2 3 or 6'4. But his skating ability is really, really good, like up there better than Reimbocker, I would say. So I really like him a lot too.

I think that that would be a great pick for AZ at 12. I miss that Dorian quote. That is a really wild thing for him to say it for this class because this is not the year you don't want to have a first round pick. Well, as we're seeing by like how impossible it is for teams to trade back into the first round that probably have a desire to do so i know that the um you know the avalanche just got the 31st overall pick from the canadianes for alex new hook but for the most part like teams are just holding on of these picks like just holding off for dear life yeah exactly and nobody's moving out of

the top 10 right like teams are trying to get into the top 10 weak draft classes you can get into the top 10 you can move up right um and and no one's no one's moving right now and it doesn't seem like it's going to happen either so that's that's a fun that's a fun quote okay well you're up here with the buffalo Sabres pick at 13th overall. I mean, the thing that I love about the Sabres here is they have so much already, both in terms of young players in NHL that they drafted recently,

but also guys who will hopefully make the team over the next couple years that they've taken recently, that they can just do whatever they want. And I will, as assuming it's like a player with high upside and it's skilled, I will love it. Like, they really are not boxed in here at all, and that's a great place to be in as an organization.

Absolutely. They're so stacked up. I have a mock draft coming out here, a three-round mock draft that'll come out if it's not even out today or right now. But, and I've got, I gave them Braden Yeager. Now, I'm going to go, I'm going to go off my board now, though, and say who I would take.

And I'm taking a Gabe Perrault at this spot. And I'm feeling really good about it because, you know, check out the big brain on Brad. This kid is probably the smartest player in the crop. I love his vision. I love his hands. He's got a sneaky release too. Like, obviously he scored just a ton of goals this year as well.

set the new record for the NDP there for most points ever passing Austin Matthews. One of the most, the highest goal scores, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think he's like top four ever for a single season goal tolls for them as well. Yes, he played with Will Smith and Ryan Leder, so he had a lot of help and he played on a really, really good team. The knock is the feat, right? We know it. It's that they're not elite and he's not a super big kid.

So it stands to reason that we're going to, want him to add that to his game. I don't think he's as poor a skater as some people do. You know, at EP, we as a group gave him a four and five would be about average. I think he's, I think he's got good straightaway speed, good enough anyways. It's that edge work, that explosiveness, that lateral agility that you want to see him. He can't stay low enough in his stance to maintain that posture that you need to be so electric side to side when you're a bit smaller.

but the vision, the IQ, he's so tactical. He's really, really high, high-end offense generating slot passes, generating primary assist, you know, controlled zone entries. Like it's all really, really good. And then the defense is not so great. But again, we're not paying him to do that. And you can work on that kind of thing too. Yeah, I really struggle with him because based on the statistical profile,

you mentioned 53 goals it was his total and 132 points in 63 games which set the record you would be like all right this has to be in the top 10 right and you certainly see the skill level on display and as the year went along while he did play with those line mates it clearly went from all right well this guy is just a passenger along from the ride to okay he's making plays like he is at times being the guy who's driving scoring chances here and being a key creator for them i'm a bit worried about the skating purely through the lens of in our guide, I know this is a big Mitch Brownism. He is big on the ability to access your outside edges in terms of improving skating, right? Having that as a foundation, a guy like Jason Robertson, for example, who fell in his draft and obviously

much different in terms of size, but his skating was obviously very poor and people were worried about it. Now he at that level even demonstrated ability to at least use those edges to kind of get around and maneuver. And so he had that foundation of build off of where he could improve to a baseline level in the NHL where he's still not a burner, but he can get to his spots. And if that is a struggle for Pearl here, and especially you see it sometimes along the wall, right, where he can get like bullied a little bit and can't shake guys and then struggles there and has limitations as a winger in today's game at 5 on 5, if that's the case, that's concerning for me. Because as we saw this postseason in terms of like actionable takeaways of what works,

what does and what matters when the game really becomes incredibly important, that's a huge skill for a winger. And so if he doesn't have that in his bag, I'm a little concerned about what that's going to look like at the next level. But obviously, once you start getting towards the back half of the lottery here and potentially into the mid to late teens, like the skill is worth taking a shot on, I just, I do have that in the back of my mind. And that's fair.

And that is, I recognize those concerns as well. And there is a definite bust factor with him. But the boom is worthy enough that I think, I think it's valid in the early teams or, you know, at 12 or something like that between that 12 and 15 range, that a team will bet on just the way he sees things because he sees things that others don't. And you can really, you can use that and you can work with a player. And, you know, he's going to go to a good program and he's going to get an opportunity to stay there for a couple of years and then get into your system and you can mold them.

And I know that skating is the hardest skill to develop, especially as you age up. But intelligence cannot be taught. Like it is, it is actually a skill that cannot be taught. It's the one that can't be. And he has it in spades. And so I like to bet on that. And we talked about that at the opening of last show is that I really, really, really, value IQ. And so for me, he's got it. And, uh, and, and yeah, so I'll, I'll take the bet that he can find

his outside edges. Um, and, and then just leverage all the other skills that he has to generate points, but he's going to need opportunity. He's going to need to play with good players. He's going to need power play time to be effective. And in order to do that, he's going to have to keep up. So he's, he's got some work left to do. Well, and if he were to go to a team, like let's say Buffalo in this case, what he's going to be asked to do once he ever makes the team, just based on what they already have in place. Like he can just be kind of like a bit of a luxury item play connector as opposed to like someone who's going to have to all of a sudden totally change his style and do a bunch of heavy lifting

with the puck. Right. And so if he's able to make kind of quick little place to get it to guys who are much more free flowing skaters, I could certainly see that working out for him. Bob McKenzie had a tent on his board, which was certainly like on the higher end of what I would have expected because I would have thought that teams would be a bit wary and he could be a guy. it could potentially fall, but I guess the success playing with that line and the point totals were just so gaudy that it's almost impossible to, you kind of can't look away.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm up next year for the Penguins at 14, and I don't necessarily think they would take this player. I think they would probably take someone who's a bit closer to producing for them. And I think they're going to have maybe potentially even better options available based on the way the board shakes out. But I had this guy one pick ahead of purpose.

on my board at 13th. And it might be a bit high, but I'm willing to bet on it. And it's Grace and Soshin. So 58 points and 58 games in the W.H. All right, you look at that and you're like, all right, well, that's not necessarily that amazing. Like, it's fine. But in this conversation, not nothing that it's going to blow you away.

But I think the opportunity and usage context here is important. He was playing second, third line minutes for them, second unit power play on that absolutely stacked. team and I would not be shocked at all next year if he's playing a premium role and pots like 100 plus points for them and all of a sudden just looks entirely different in that regard. I'm banking a little bit here on Mitch's tracking of it, which obviously looks very favorably upon him and I believe he is a Mitch Brown favorite as well. The chance creations through the roof, the transition abilities through the roof, playoff the puck

is excellent. And in particular, on that theme of like what we've seen work in the postseason and on, he's so good at getting the puck off the boards, right? You watch these plays and they're cycling it around and all of a sudden he either one touches it or just takes it himself, make someone miss and gets to the inside. And that's such a valuable skill for a player like that. And so I'm betting on him taking a massive leap next year and it might be putting myself out a little bit this high in the draft. But I just, I love all those kind of core components of his game that I've seen so far. I don't blame him. He will absolutely not go this high, but I respect the swing on it too. He and you know, you mentioned he was playing second or

third line minutes. He was playing fourth line minutes for a lot of the season, especially at the end of the season. Now he was battling an injury and he was not the same player at the Memorial Cup or down the stretch while he was dealing with those. And so I had to keep reminding myself that, you know, this isn't the, this isn't the player that I watched earlier in the year. So his hands, to blind. Really, really, like in a phone booth, good. Now, he does over leverage that at times, and he'll try to attack the middle against three players and try to dipsy-doodle his way through it and lose it and cough it up. But he does have the ability to make guys miss in a lot of different ways. I think you're right. I think he's set to explode with points. Now, how much talent he's going to

have left to work with Seattle as they age out a ton of guys after going on the Memorial Cup final will be left to be seen. But yeah, he's going to take a huge jump. And he's one of these players that he could be around at like a hundred. I don't even like, he's kind of this skinny, gilful player that I could see dropping like a stone, which would just be outrageous. I hope he's gone by at least 40.

But no, he's a high, high upside player that I think you're going to make teams look a little silly down the road if he does fall too far. Because he just has, he's got jammed too. He's not a soft skill guy. Like he's,

he actually, plays a little chippy out there like a little you know a little dirty at times throwing some elbows and stuff like that too so he definitely has some pushback in his game um you know i had an opportunity to chat with him a few times in the moral cup too and any and he seems like a good kid um he even gave us a shout out because uh because we rated him so he rated him so i i give him some extra love where did where did we line up with him on our on our final guide it was pretty high no 13 which is by far the highest among anybody yeah so it's just nailed right there yeah so shades of uh troit carey and Robert Thomas with the high IQ.

Wow. Oh, say no more. Right. Yeah, I got ankle breaker and he's got that dog in him. He's got that badge too because he definitely has that dog in him too. So he needs some weight. He needs some maturity. He needs some opportunity.

He needs to flesh out some of his poor habits of attacking too much. But those are all correctable and achievable goals for sure. Well, according to Mitch's data, only Zach Benson and Logan Stancove were more effective at getting the puck off the boards. Speaking of, Stancove and obviously different players, but I could see a year from now being like, wait,

how did he go in the mid to late second? Or even in your case, you said he might go even further than that. So just definitely a name to remember and guy I'm willing to bet on. Okay. 15th overall for the National Predators. You know what?

I'm going to give you these final two picks because I don't really feel supremely confident about any of these players. Like we're reaching this point now after Pearl and Sajun where there's obviously a bunch of talent here, right? And you can kind of pick your favorites. but a lot of a lot of question marks and a lot of guys that I'm I'm not necessarily that sold on.

So I'll let you give out your two favor remaining players here, 15th for Nashville and 16th for Calgary. Okay, Nashville. I know Barry Trott said he's like, go get me skill. I can go find some grinders in other ways. But I'm not going to take like a big, big cut. Maybe if Sauchin was there, I could have done that. But I'm going to give them Matthew Wood. And I think that that is an upside swing as well.

he is a six-foot-three skillful forward who has a history of playing the middle of the ice played a lot of wing at yukon this year but we're talking as a green freshman not many kids play college hockey in their draft year you know this year it was fantilly it was brindley it was um charlie strammell and it was matt wood and wood put up a point of game at yukon and like that's very very impressive but the most impressive thing i think this season for him was that he improved his skating because I had to write the word sluggish a couple of times on those reports. Yeah. We don't like to do that, but it got better.

And when you improve a skill throughout a skill like that, when you're a big player in your draft year, it's, I like that. I, that recognizes a deficiency and that he's focusing in on it. He's trying to improve it. And it wasn't just like, oh, you know, he's, his motors up. It's, it's tangible evidence that he's staying lower in his stance. he's extending that that that extension on his leg strides and kind of bringing it in and recovering cleanly underneath his body and so these signs he can still have those bad habits will come up

maybe later in shifts or when he's too upright and he's trying to explode to a puck and he just doesn't have the length in his stride to do it but i think that he if he can get up to be even like an average skater at his size with his skill there is top line upside and if you can get that at 15 i think national that would be a home run pick for them and they can break right but if it doesn't you know, maybe he's like a third line winger who can play on the wall and, you know, make some things happen for you in the end front of the power play and stuff like that. So there's still some value on his on his floor as well. Okay.

And 16. 16. Okay. And we've got Target Flames here. And I'm going to give him Axel Sandin Polika. And I think, and I think that he's probably around this range. He could go earlier too. I really, really like this player.

Like I really like him. I wish I could fall in love with his game because he plays it in a way that I really appreciate a smaller defender does is that he can play defense and he showed that at the u18s that he can match up against his peer group and play some really nice defensive habits off the rush in his own um he plays he always got good fluid movement at the top of the umbrella on the power play he can get his shot through he makes a good first pass he can shake and bake but like he plays like he's quinn hughes but he's not queen hughes right he doesn't have that electric edgework he doesn't have those super elite hands he can't he can't break all of the pressure and so

instead of being a top pair, top power play, he's probably more like a second pair, second power play guy, which there's still value there. But I think that a team like Calgary, they're going to need an infusion of talent and upside on the blue line. And I think that he'd be a good option for him there. Yeah, I'm a 16th on my board. I've seen him quite high on others. My concern about him is despite that profile that we mentioned, and he's clearly very

gifted and profiles as kind of this dynamic puck-moving modern defensemen. is like one of his struggles seems to be actually going back and retrieving the puck and then making a play on it against a heavy for check, like in space when he's able to break it out. He's so smooth in transition, but actually going back and doing the dirty work. Now, if he can play with someone who can kind of handle that and be a connector for him, it could eliminate a lot of those concerns. But what we're seeing in today's game is these defensemen with this kind of frame and skill set, if they don't have elite either like pure elusiveness like a Quinn Hughes,

that you mentioned or sort of like an internal clock that allows them to get in and out of those plays, they can get themselves into trouble, right? They feel that pressure. Then all of a sudden, they're hearing those footsteps too late. They're making mistakes. They're turning it over and they struggle against modern forechecks. And so that would be a concern for me when you're just purely penciling them in as like, oh, this guy has no doubt about it going to be a stud fuck mover. It's like, that's an important component of it as well. It might not be as flashy as other stuff, but it matters. And so it's strange because despite all that, he doesn't really have very many comps in this year's class, right? Generally, we have like a bunch of these types of defensemen, but for the most part, he's so different than a lot of the other guys that we've already mentioned on this board that he stands out in that way.

So I'm curious to see where he goes and what team values him and how high that is. Yeah, no, for sure. You nailed it there. There's he's a very interesting player because some people believe that he could be not quite Quinn Hughes, but he could be near that level. But we've seen so many smaller defensemen with really good skills coming out of junior in Europe or in the CHL that look like they could be high-end producers and just aren't. They just can't translate it to the NHL level. And I've just had that nagging feeling about him all year.

Yeah. All right. Well, before we get out of here and plug the guide and all that, let's do a couple honorable mentions. Is there anyone that we didn't shout out that you want the listeners to keep on their radar, whether it is a date? day one or day two pick just as someone that you're like oh i'm planting my flag on this guy or or i'm very curious to see where he goes uh well i mean there's a whole bunch of guys that i'm really curious to see where they go i i'm i think brayden jagger's been slept on a little bit this year i think that he's uh just because he moved to the middle of the ice and and really

focused on improving his his playmaking in his defensive game that that people are forgetting that he has an all world release and it was projected to be a top five player in this class coming into the year at cchel rookie the year last year i'm really curious to see where corby bar logos because He's this power winger with just a great release. You know, his dragon release is rocket quick too. But the kid that I'm really kind of planting my flag in is Oscar Fisker Mulgarde, who I've got in the top 20, who played, you know, a big, big chunk of his season in the SHL.

I think that there's a lot more offense hidden in his game that he just had to kind of squelch down a little bit when he was playing in the top pro league there in Sweden, but that he showcased more of the junior level. And I think that there's a chance that he's like a legit two C down the line that a team might be able to get on day two, but we'll see if he sneaks into the top round. I love that. And as listeners of the show, no, my guy is Tanner Melendick. And I'm very curious to see whether he is a late day one pick or more likely probably

early day two. But I know that I'm going to love whoever takes him and it'll probably be a smart organization as I've had a few evaluators working with teams, reach out and be like, can you please stop mentioning him on the podcast with all these flybys because you're moving them up, upper board. So looking forward to that. All right, Cam, I'll let you quickly let the listeners know a little bit more about the guide and kind of where they can check that out because I assume anyone that's listened to these two parts

and this mock draft is hooked and wants more of this. And there's so many other prospects and so much more detail to share and the guide has all that. So I can't recommend it enough. Let them know kind of where they can check that on and what to expect from it. Yeah. So come on over to E.P. Ringsside. Get your premium account. And that gets the access to everything that we have there, all our content,

and all the stuff that Dmiti is working on and all the prospects stuff, all the advanced stats stuff on just the player pages. And it gets used over 1,600 pages of our draft guide. And that's not a misquote there. You know, we break down over 400 players, all their player grades, thousands of game reports. We rank our top 130, whatever, six prospects. It is literally, like I said earlier off in the first show,

is that it's for the junkies who want to know every little minutiae about a player, but it's also for people that just want to get. to know this class and understand better what their favorite team, who they're drafting, who they're going to draft, what they have in the future. And, uh, and yeah, help, help support our work that we put so much into and, and our great team over there at EP. Well, you guys did a phenomenal job. So I cannot recommend that enough. I hope everyone listening goes and buys it and just devours it over it. Even when the draft passes, right? You want to know, uh, who your new favorite prospects are. Cam, this was a blast.

Enjoy, uh, the rest of your time there in Nashville and the rest of this draft week. and the listener as well. Enjoy Wednesday and Thursday's draft. We'll be black with plenty of more of the PDO cast here on the SportsNet Radio Network.