The Hockey PDOcast - An Avalanche of Trades

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Meghan Angley and AJ Haefele for an emergency episode to break down Colorado's two big trades on Wednesday, the logic behind doing them as a tandem, and the impact they'll have on the Avalanche's outlook for both the rest of the year and into the future.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitra Filippovich and joining me as my good buddy, Megan Angley. Megan, what's going on? Not too much, just a bit tired, busy day yesterday. How are you? It was a good one. I'm good.

No, things are good. Business is good. We weren't even on the schedule for today. I was going to take the day off and the plan was to just wait until Friday afternoon or Friday evening, I guess early evening and record the next show and we could just look back at the trade deadline and analyze everything and kind of the fallout once the dust settled. But then all hell broke loose on Wednesday and the trades just kept flowing and it was one of the more eventful days I can remember since I've been doing this.

And one thing was clear. We had to talk it out. We couldn't wait until Friday. And particularly with the abs, considering they made two not only big deals, but I think especially the second one, probably the most consequential of the bunch, I had to throw up the pod signal. You answered it. our pal a j hayfley uh your colleague also answered it he's not here right now i think he's going to

jump in on the fly and join us at some point here but we're going to discuss this all from the app's perspective the two of you do a great job covering this team for dnbr sports and so the last time the three of us got together it was fun and hopefully we can keep that buzz going and talk our way through all this so let's kind of unpack from the ab's perspective where things stand after this combination of deals and i'm curious for your take in terms of like the sense of the timing of this stuff because news of it broke shortly one after the other, right? And I imagine they were kind of executed in tandem, like the timing and the connection of the two separate deals

were in conjunction with each other in a way because I think the first one happening sort of allowed them to feel more confidence doing the second one. But I'm curious for your take on kind of how this all came together over the course of yesterday and how not only the news broke, but sort of, I guess, the sequencing of it all. it felt like no coincidence. And it was hard not to be conspiratorial because we happened to, as media, be at morning skate when Sean Walker was coming to Colorado and a pick and Ryan Johansson was going their way.

That seemed like an unusual move. It's not that Dept's D wasn't individually a need that Colorado would be interested in. That was just a pretty high-end depth D target around this deadline for that to be a standalone move. and his right shot ability seemed like something with Byram absent from Morning Skate, knowing they've been trying to get him to play on his offside all year, and he's made strides in that department. So that's not a criticism of him,

but he struggled at the start of the year, felt like they really wanted to lock down that right side of the D for some particular reason. We learned, of course, that Byram is under the weather. And to be fair, he was genuinely battling some illness, but his absence wasn't totally accidental because while in the Detroit locker room for the opposing morning skate, the news of Byram to Buffalo, Middle Stack coming back, comes out.

And it felt like the writing was on the wall even before yesterday's morning skate for Byram. It's just because he's in an interesting position, his path through the organization, what Kilmachar has begun, and then the minute that Devon Tave's contract extension was signed, it felt like Byram was on borrowed time. It was sink or swim because this was his real fully healthy year that we've seen him. Obviously that 22 cup run was special for Byram and that teased what you could hope his ceiling might be one day. But health interrupted, getting to see a complete picture of what Byram is. I think that's explained then in the Taves extension alongside only a two-year sort of a bridge contract for Byram.

The expectation just around the media side of things, what we hear, was that at the end of this contract for Byram, he would be interested in looking elsewhere to be a one or a two because it wouldn't be possible in Colorado with Taves and McCar there at the top. I think he's a fully capable three, four right now. He's been playing on their bottom pair leading up to this moment. I think that probably came with some frustration as well. and I see this as the organization's way, finding a path to filling a huge need in their roster, as well as giving Byram this opportunity that I think was inevitably coming at the end of this contract anyways. Yeah, I'm always fascinated by the timing of this stuff

and kind of how it works out, because obviously you have your hand in a lot of different jars as a GM around the trade deadline, right, and you're trying to make all the pieces fit, certainly. I would say that the first deal they made with Philadelphia, the Sean Walker one with Ryan Hansen going out the door and a first row pick wasn't necessarily conditional on this second one happening. I think they probably had that plan of the two working in concert with each other,

but I think just like the ability to shed the cap space, add a right shot defender to fulfill that, but also then open the door to spend money elsewhere. I think they would have been happy with that price to do it just in a vacuum by itself. I'm not sure if the second Byram deal would have happened the way it did without a first deal like that falling into place, though, because obviously despite the fact that he had taken a bit of a step back in terms of his performance and his role, still such a valuable sort of theoretical piece for this organization. And I think having Walker, at least for the rest of this season, I imagine kind of like emboldened them or sort of imbibed them with a bit of extra confidence to finally make that push, right? Because

we were wondering whether they were actually going to take this extra step of moving Byram to acquire a center or whether they were going to kind of take a smaller half measure moving picks to add some sort of like a veteran depth piece instead. And they went the full measure here in doing a good old fashioned one for one hockey trade moving Byron for a center. Absolutely. Sean Walker by himself would have made for a reliable person they can plug into their decor right now. That brings about something a little different from Byram. It would be added insurance and it helped to, I don't like to emphasize this too much. I feel sympathy for the position that he's in, but simply put Ryan Johansson was not a fit in Colorado. They needed to offload that

contract and because he has another year left in his deal, they needed to send a first round pick out with him to sweeten up the deal a little bit. And it is such an agreeable return then to get such a solid defenseman in Walker who right now is playing similar hockey to play. Byron, but even better numbers-wise. Defensively, he's been a little bit better. Offensively, it's not necessarily going to wow you. That part, I think Byram's confidence was stunted a little bit this year, so we didn't see as much of that as I think Buffalo fans can expect to see from him moving

forward. But Walker's had a resurgence in Philly. Colorado absolutely should have been interested in him, independent of this Byron middle-stat deal. It just all worked together very smartly because they didn't want to be caught with their pants down moving Byron prematurely before they had some D locked up on the way. Well, and for the Saber's perspective here, and we're going to say, kind of save this, more of the Byron stuff for later, because I think I want to talk about the Walker side of

this first, but just while we're on that note, it's interesting hearing you talk about sort of the adjustment into playing his offside and kind of how maybe that plays into some of the underlying metrics. So you take a bit of a step back for a variety of reasons. And the fact that he at least got some of these reps under his belt is probably encouraging for the Sabres perspective as well, right? Because a lot's been made of the fact that so many of their top defensemen are natural left shot blue liners in power and Dahlia and Matia Samuelson and even Ryan Johnson coming

up. And so it seems like they're going to start Byram on the right side playing with Rosmas Dahlian. And I'm very curious to see how that goes and how he adjust to that. It was also interesting. I'm not sure what you make of this or if you can provide any additional insight into it. It's obviously kind of like hearsay and speculation. but Elliot Friedman was on the Sports Night broadcast last night talking about this trade. And he sort of in passing alluded to the fact that like from Byram's perspective,

he personally felt like not that he was blocked because like he's gotten opportunities on this team. And also it's like, yeah, Kail McCarr and Devon Taves are very good. They're like elite top of the class defensemen. So they're going to get their opportunities. But he felt like almost personally he wasn't blocked, but like he didn't have full room. I guess to get all those top assignments, top minutes, be featured in a scoring defense role, the way he probably thinks he merits based on his talent and pedigree and what he's gotten previously in his career.

And so it was interesting kind of seeing that because I don't think it was by any means painted as kind of like a selfish thing on Byron's perspective. I think it was like a confident thing of this is a player who believes in himself that much and wants to play that role moving forward. And he's going to get a chance to do so playing on that right side for the Buffalo Sabers. I think there's a lot of validity to that. Well, Byron is kind of one of a kind in a few different ways. One, he's just a really fun locker and personality.

But for such a young player, his confidence has never been an issue. There have been maybe periods like this year I would point to where I think, like I mentioned earlier, it was stunted. But he is a player with a lot of self-assurance in who he is and who he can become. And I think that 2022 cup run helped to solidify that in his eyes, what he's deserving of and what he's a to be. And I don't think it comes from a place of disrespect or selfishness, like you're saying, in wanting more for himself. And I would agree, too, that he wasn't set up to succeed necessarily starting the year on his offside. That is where you saw a lot of his struggles in that adjustment. And he was then playing lower and lower in the decor as a result of that, being sheltered even more,

because he was struggling with that adjustment. And there were points then, as that started to come along because I want to give him credit that he became so much more comfortable on his offside. And some of his play as of late, it was sort of right back when he returned from injury just before the All-Star break. I've had some of their toughest stretch of hockey following that, but Byron was a player on the rise at that time. And mind you, he's playing on the bottom pair with Jack Johnson on his offside. And he's still finding ways to contribute offensively.

I think that is a reflection of the growth Byram has done inside the season and why Buffalo should get. excited that he is capable of playing on his offside now. It was just a bit of a learning curve through this point. And I think it's also no accident that even though Buffalo is heavy handed on the left side, Matthias Samuelson out with an injury for the rest of this year probably makes him want to have somebody with that flexibility. He might be someone that they lean on to play on his natural left side at point two, at points two. But I was excited to hear that he'll be paired with Dahlene in this first game for him because,

He's interesting. He can rise above situations in the moment. He's also had opportunities. There have been points. Macar has been out this year that he has had the chance to play with Dave's. And I think he just hasn't had enough time consistently to play with that level of talent because Ben-Nar loves to mix up the deep ears inside a game. That I'm excited to see if, like, I would say Buffalo probably has one of the best young

D-Course in the league. I think that this is an environment that Byron can thrive in. And he has, though at 20, years old, 22 maybe, he has so much to bring to that lineup, even as just a young player. Definitely. Hoping over the boards and joining us on the fly here,

off the rush, going to contribute with some scoring chances. Is our pal, AJ Hayfley, coming in late, but hopefully coming in hot. What's going on, AJ? What's happening, friends? Sorry about that. Oh, no worries.

We started the conversation. We were just itching. Megan and I couldn't wait any longer. We had to talk this out. So we started off without you. But you're going to hop in here and join us. We were talking about Byram here, and we were sort of talking about it from his perspective. AJ, in the lead up to this, I do my trades I'd like to see every year and kind of trying to cook up

fun of ones, but also realistic ones and logistically sound ones in particular. And I was pitching you on stuff that I was sort of working on. And when trying to make this abs team better, I kept bumping into this sort of like unavoidable realization that if they were going to do something meaningful, and add a center that would legitimately make a difference, both this season and beyond, it would have to involve Byron, both because of his salary to make the money work, but also because of his upside and his value, at least theoretically, to another team, that would entice them to trade a player of that caliber.

And so it was really tricky. I was pitching you a bunch of like Yanigord ones, and obviously we didn't see that happening. And it seems like Seattle's just going to keep both him and Adam Larson for the rest of the season. But my issue with any of these deals was I just had no idea how to value Byron, because depending on who you talk to, those evaluations would wildly vary. You would talk to someone and they would say, I'm willing to just totally give them a clean slate.

You always bet on the talent. And he showed enough that it's still there. And so I'm investing in that. And then there's people whose risk tolerance isn't nearly as high. And they were just like, yeah, I'm not that interested in that. And so it was just really tough to kind of grasp what the value was. And apparently it was pretty high because they were able to pull off a one-for-one deal for Casey Middlestad, who himself is thought of very highly around the league at this point.

It's kind of like the, you know, the, the old axiom at the trade deadline of it only takes one. And, you know, with, with Buffalo, I'm, I'm still surprised they were the one because Ross and Stalin and Owen Power are already there. Mattias Samuelson is signed for the next half decade. You know, they, they weren't like dying. for a guy of Bowen Byram's ilk. They had guys already. They had high-end guys that they, guys who were all kind of in the same position as Bowen Byram.

And, you know, Byram at its best is just, he's so good and he's such a difference maker. You see the aggression with the puck and you see him get up the ice. You see him attack. And then you see the way that he aggressively defends before he ever has to really defend in his own zone. And when he plays like that, it's the, it's so obvious. And it's so easy to be like, yeah, this is going to be a thing.

And in Colorado, I think you were running into the issue of Gil McCarres just there. He's just always going to play 24 minutes a night. Then they gave Devon Taves a big extent. at the start of the year, there's nowhere for Bowen Byram to go. You know, he's he's now a second pairing guy at best forever. And at least in Buffalo right now, you, you can kind of squint and see, okay, it's a race to see who realizes that potential first, you know, Owen Power, Bowen, Byron, Rossam's Stalleen.

Dahlian's obviously got a head start. He's, he's great. And he could have this, he could have kind of the same effect that, that Kea McCarr did at some point, but that they're going to start him together, it's at least somewhere for him to go. And I wonder if just mentally emotionally, if that doesn't change the equation for him so much

that it gives him kind of a renewed sense of vigor to attack his career every day. And I always have wondered with Viram is the inconsistency, how much of it is a result of, you know, a guy that got everything immediately in his NHO career. You know, he, he wins the Stanley Cup, his first playoff run as a full-time regular. And he's so good. He plays a ton.

He plays the best hockey of his career. And that playoff run remains the showcase of his career because the rest of it, the rest of his career, it's inconsistent. It's marred by injury. and problems. There have just been potholes that he seems to hit all the time.

And the one shiny thing was the Stanley Cup run. He was so good beginning to end. He was getting better. And then, you know, is he just, is that value that he ended up having for the savers?

Did they just end up looking at that and saying, you know what? We'll take that chance. We've got this guy in middle, stat that is really well thought of that is really good and is on the rise. But ultimately, you know, for the financial reasons that we've already made, he can't fit here. And we love the guy, but we're going to take a chance on a guy that we also think could be on the rise and balance our roster a little bit.

Well, Megan, if taking AJ at face value there and being like, all right, the Sabres are looking at this and they're saying, you watch that stand like a final run and that's where you're holding on to hope for as like, this is what he could be. I don't think that's necessarily wrong, not only because it was less than two years ago and that's a pretty short period of time, but also because I think what separates Byram here from a lot of other young players who were kind of thought of in this way is oftentimes our projections of these guys are like kind of a leap of faith or a projection moving forward where you're like, all right, this is a 23 year old player who used to have a draft pedigree.

We haven't really seen him do it at this level, but we think they're talented. And so, yeah, I'm going to bet on that. In Byram's case, we've actually literally seen him do it on the biggest stage at the highest level in this league already at a young age. So it's not a matter of kind of hypothetically dreaming up

what that would look like. I think we do have proof of concept of what Bowen Byram at his best and most valuable could conceivably be. and I think that is a bit of an added confidence boost, I think for the Sabres moving forward, that that exists on tape as opposed to kind of this hope and a dream that a lot of young players provide us with. Absolutely, because the other part of this is the risk Buffalo takes on

with how much Byram has struggled with injury, and it's been injury of varying degree. So obviously, the head injury remains a concern for his whole career just because of the likelihood of sustaining another. It's always a risk for players who sustained one. But having dealt with other things, lower body ailments, missing time, that leaves the body work to evaluate him a lot smaller than you might help. And I think that there are a lot of great regular season players,

and that's something that Byron has at such young age, like you're saying, is a body of work in the playoffs. And in a Stanley Cup final, no less, a final that results in a championship win, a win that he plays a big role in and shows co. confidence in, I think that's where you can start to really dream on him as a player then to see him in that environment and not get overwhelmed by the moment. And honestly, working back from injury the way that he has, being able to overcome that at such a young age is another difficult thought with adversity that I think is something he can wear pretty proudly. And then what he's

been able to do through the course of this season, it didn't start out great for him, but I think some of his best hockey came out of the All-Star break. I know the abs went through that tough period on the whole, but individually, his play was on the rise. And if they're looking at him as an individual closely, all of it makes sense to put together why you could get excited about Byron. Well, in A.J., before you joined us, Megan and I were talking about kind of Byron playing on his offside and the adjustments that entailed that

and kind of willingness to give him the benefit of doubt in that regard, I think his performance this year and his underlying metrics have progressed quite a bit, aren't that big of a concern to me, certainly, when you see that game recently where, like, Tommy Nobac embarrasses him a little bit defensively, people latch on to that are like, oh, like, this is highly concerning. I think for me, like the performance this year, when you acknowledge his splits with defense partners when he was playing with Jack Johnson compared to even Manson or Gerard or the fact that he spends so much time playing with Ryan Johanson and we'll talk more about him in a minute here, who

dragged down his results, I'm willing to hand wave that. The injury stuff is just impossible for us to really kind of gave. because it's going to be one of those things where you have to wind up looking back at it and you're going to get your answer one way or another. There's countless examples of players most recently in Aaron Eckblad, Patrice Bergeron back in the day where early in their career they had a bunch of head injuries were missing a lot of time and then wound up staying healthy having great productive careers. There's also countless examples of players who that physical and mental toll of constantly

being out of the lineup and in particular with head injuries wound up just sort of stunt their development and never allowing them to materialize what they could have been otherwise. So I don't think there's any way to know one way or another. And I think that's kind of what makes this such an interesting discussion because there is no right answer. We're going to have to wait to see. But it presents both the risk and reward case very clearly and sort of equally for us. Yeah, Aaron Eckblatt is the name that I think Buffalo probably has had dancing in their heads

when they were talking about making this deal and ultimately decided to make the deal because you know it's easy to look at air neck blood today and and be like oh look what he became but early in his career it was it was a tough start

and I'm hopeful for for Beau just just for him that you know it all continues from on an injury front it all continues to pretty to go pretty well for him but that's

that's definitely the dart that the savers are throwing, is that looking back at that cup run, as you said, it's proof of concept, looking at how he has played recently on the offside as Megan, on his offside, as Megan had mentioned.

And just hoping that he can stay healthy. All of it kind of has to come together in order, for me, anyway, in order for this to ultimately be worth it in the end. Because otherwise, they will have given up a valuable young center and if they don't, if they don't get at least a borderline All-Star out of this,

I think they're going to have, I think they're disappointed. Okay, we're going to talk about that center and all sorts of other stuff regarding these two trades from the Abb's perspective. When we come back, we'll take a quick break here and then we'll do so. You're listening to the Hockeypedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Your number one spot for Flames coverage can be found on Flames Talk with me, Pat Steinberg, exclusive interviews trusted insiders and the latest news listen live weekday afternoons and four or stream the flames talk podcast on demand all right we are back here on the hockey pdo cast joined by megan angley a j hayfley we are talking about the two trades the avalanche made on wednesday uh we were talking about the bow and byrm side of things let's talk about then casey middle stat the player they got for them AJ, I wrote a bunch of a bit about this fit for the abs.

I think it's very clear. They've been looking for this type of playmaking impact, second line center. Pretty much since Nazam Khadry walked out the door, they were hoping that Ryan Johansson would be that. And you and I did a show, I think, the day of or the day after they made that Johansson trade this past off season. And I think we presented both sides of it. There was certainly trepidation about sort of some of the signs that he'd shown in his game

recently, we acknowledged the logic of you're getting this guy who has been a playmaker in the past at a reduced cost to fit an obvious need. And we've seen this app system juice players before. So I wanted to see what it would look like if he dropped him into it. We got our answer. And unfortunately, it was not pretty. He just did not fit with the way the abs play. And with the pace and activity, this system and environment demands of you.

I'm not sure if he would have ever really been able to keep up in that way. but certainly this 31-year-old version of them was not it. And so now they go and they fix that sin with these two trades by replacing his money essentially with Casey Middlestat. And at least on paper, it seems like a massive upgrade based on everything we've seen from Middle stat the past two seasons. Yeah, I think I'll start with the trepidation that I have with Middlestad

is that, again, you might have a guy that pace-wise is not going to be, a perfect fit in Colorado. I don't think it should be anywhere near the problem that it was with Ryan Johansson. But if you are looking for a pitfall, a potential pitfall with the deal, that could be one of them. You know, he's a small guy. He's not a super physical guy. We have no idea what he's going to be like in the postseason. How is he going to handle that moment?

What's that going to look like? All of those are things that, yeah, we don't really. really know. Beyond that, though, I mean, oh my goodness, you have to be, you're talking about a guy who's really found it over the last couple of years for the Sabres and whose game has really taken flight. I described him on one of our many hours of shows yesterday. I described him as a kind of a center version of Jonathan Duran, but also younger, you know, just with the, with the playmaking mentality. Not going to shoot a lot.

If he has a 20-goal season, it's probably going to be the best season he has. He's just not really that guy. But in terms of playmaking and raising the, elevating the guys around him because of what he can do with the hockey sense, the hockey IQ, the creativity and the hands, it's all the skill is going to play in Colorado just fine. He's going to be that aspect of it. He's going to be completely fine.

And that's where, and it's 25. So the abs are done with this now. You know, they should be doing whatever they can, assuming that this does not go horribly sideways for the rest of this season and during this postseason run for them. He should be getting a, a deal that covers at least three or five, three to five years is kind of where I have him earmarked. And that's, that covers, if it's five years, it's that covers whatever window the ads have.

You know, that's, that's, that's his prime. That's the, the, the rest of McKinnon as a dominant player, rancid in McCar. That's like, they're set. They're now, they're done with messing around with this, this, oh, they needed to see. They needed to see. great. Now one of the sharpest front offices in the NHL can get to trying to steal all your good players for undervalue again. Now that they're not trying to solve the same problem over and over and over and over. To me, if this goes the way that it has the potential to go, I think it's a huge problem for everybody else.

The abs get exactly what they want. And when a front office that's smart and that good with that track record that they have gets what they want. 31 other teams don't Well he'll be 26th in November But you're right he retains two years of team control Which gives them much more leverage over the situation And so I would imagine there would be a long term deal Or at least that medium term deal

That covers most of his 20s Certainly the most consequential Part of this series of transactions I think for the present day because of what he represents And what he's replacing in particular Megan what's interesting to me about this is it's not like his story is not that dissimilar to Bowen Byram's. It's not as contingent on health the way we talked about with Byram in part one. But it is in the sense of like he was a

player who as recently as two years ago was in that 22 to 23 year old range. And there was a lot of questions as he approached a real crossroads in his career of whether he would ever full time be the player we hoped he would be. As a prospect, he was so highly regarded. The task Allen was obviously very visible, but was struggling to put it together, struggling to like functionally leverage all of those individual skills into actual production and results. And he took off last year. At 5-15 in particular, he's been a phenomenal playmaker the past two seasons. And so in that sense, it's kind of exactly what this avalanche team needs because it's not

just a center. It's someone who fills a very tangible need from a skill set perspective as well, right? because I'm not sure how much of it the Sabres powerplay struggles you even want to attribute to him. I think that's much more of like a team thing. And this year they've really struggled in that regard. And I think that's why his counting stats aren't as high

as you'd like them to be. But he still leads that team in scoring. He's still a top 30 player in 5.15 production. And that 5-1-5 skill set in playmaking is precisely what this avalanche team needs because they don't need, they're not really worried right now about the power play. I think their power play is just fine regardless of what happens.

this gives them an entirely different dynamic that they actually do really need the way this team is currently constructed. It's funny yesterday, AJ celebrated the death of the 3D second unit power play. This is often where you would see Byron, Taves, and Gerard get thrown out. And now middle stat is an option there that I think elevates the second unit. It's not to say that Byron was the problem there. It was trying to have free defensemen on that second unit that I think limited what that second unit was able to. do. But I'd agree, I think that from the power play perspective, he's just another player that could help when guys inevitably come in and out of the lineup. And I think in talking about guys

coming in and out of the lineup, it's why I get really excited about Middle Stats Fit in Colorado is the top six just looks so much more complete with him in it. I'm looking at potential linemates for him being Arturi Lackinen, Val Natchewski, Jonathan Druen, some mix of that bunch. And whether it's Lackinen or Ntushkin playing alongside him. It's funny to hear A.J. compare him to Jonathan Druen because Bednar was salivating. He had to hold himself back from saying that he has elite hands, middle stat that is, and also compared him to Jonathan Drewan, specifically for the hockey IQ and the way that he thinks the game. You couple that alongside the ability Val Natchiechkin has to drive play to

the net, the ability that Lekhinen has to retrieve Pucks, that hard work and then the playmaking ability of middle stat makes that in my opinion a very effective line for Colorado. And I think it's interesting to reflect on the environment he's coming from. You know, he is the leading points producer coming from Buffalo, a team that has on the whole goal scoring has been down and is underperformed to expectation through this point. I think it's interesting that the 25 year old on the team is the one who was the leading points getter. I've seen mixed reactions to what Middlestat has been viewed as in the fan base. I think some were hoping for him to rise to even more this year because of what he showed last year.

But I think it's important to remember the context of Buffalo's season and all of that too. You know, Middlestat has shown a lot of versatility this year being able to play lines one through three in Buffalo and be a pretty reliable and steady force in their forward group in doing so. think that's something that's going to bode well in Colorado as well, being able to adapt on the fly. It's just a strength of Colorado's and why I think coming to that environment will be good for him. And you'll just see the Colorado bump is what we refer to it as. Founded you can experience this overtime especially. And the talent that will be around Middle Statt is just so good.

It should elevate his game and allow him even more opportunities to be productive. Definitely. And AJ, I love that fit with just the idea theoretically of him with players like Natchewski and Lekinen because not only will they do all the dirty work from the retrievals and the puck hunting and all of that, but they're just because of their motors, they're just always in constant motion, right? And those are the types of players you want to surround a player with the playmaking and vision and passing ability that middle status displayed where according to Corey Schneider's tracking. He's 91st percentile and rush assists, 83rd percent out of high-day Japan.

as 80th percentile and shot assists. And so all of a sudden, now not only are you getting them these extra puck touches because those guys are going to work so hard to retrieve possession, but you're also all of a sudden allowing them to make plays in space off of these broken chaotic moments where there's breakdowns on the other team and the guys are open. And these are just going to lead to situations where I don't think he necessarily had as much many of them this past season in particular in Buffalo.

And to Megan's point, you're always going to have fans who just like have unrealistic expectations of players and like every year a player has to get a certain percent better and more productive and if they don't, that's viewed as a disappointment. But I think for the most part, every intelligent Sabers fan that I either follow or have seen talk about him has generally had very glowing reviews of everything he's been as a player the past two seasons, not only from the production perspective, but also like the little details connecting plays, getting the puck out of the defensive zone, working along the walls as well, all the little things that don't show up in the stat sheet. So he's clearly taken massive strides.

the past two seasons and fits right in with the idea of what the apps could get out of them based on the players they already have in place. Yeah, I think with the middle stat, you know, he actually makes me think a little bit of Tyler Toffoli in that doesn't necessarily skate really fast, but he plays really fast. And if that's going to be the case in Colorado with a Valmatius or an Arturian-Lakinen or God help the other team, both. it's kind of an unleash the hounds type of thing, right? Because it's just like, all right, great.

You've got Nathan McKinnon playing at a heart level on your top line next to the best sidekick in the league and we go rantan. And then teams could kind of take advantage of the rest of the lineup at times. You know, with Ross Colton having to play up with Ryan Johansson not providing much. that's not the case now because now it's going to be Casey Middlestat and at least one puck hound just constantly constantly coming at the other team in waves

the way that the abs are built to do like this is this is what the abs are trying to do and what the what the abs have not been since Nazam Khadri departed and you know I'm

I think he's such, middle stat, such a talented player. And it's, it's what he brings to the table is going to, is going to fit so well in Colorado that I don't even know how much more I have to say other than I just look at the other teams. And I just say good luck. Like, good luck trying to find a matchup that you're comfortable with because Ross Colton, Miles Wood, Logan O'Connor have been an exceptional trio together. and now that they're not going to be a second line and they're going to be a third luck. Just good luck. Found the Chuskin and Casey Middlestad are going to get added to the Abbs forward core in the same week. It's whatever happens in the next 24 hours, it's already a big deadline for the forwards

on the forward side for Colorado. And I just, middle stat is just the kind of skilled, the kind of smart skilled playmaker that understands how to play the game at such a fast pace that I don't know how you defend it. I don't know how you match up with it. I guess Vegas's answer was, well, we're going to put Noah Hannafin and Chey Theodore and Alex Betrangelo all on one defense. And I, you know, no offense to the other Western Conference teams, but I hope that that's the Western Conference final.

Yeah. No, I mean, that would certainly be fun. And there's a lot of work to do till then. Certainly the stat that I had in my piece to kind of illustrate. this and part of it is skewed by the fact that the Chush, getting in Leckin and missed so much time this season and that clearly eats away or depth and changes the perspective on things.

But McKinnon leads the league right now in 5-15 stats. I think everyone knows that, but also just his impact of when he's been out there at 5-15, they've scored more goals in his like 1,080 minutes than they have in the 2,000 minutes he hasn't played. And so finding a way to manufacture

extra goals from that second line is obviously imperative once you get deeper into the playoffs against deep teams like either the stars or the Golden Knights, which are teams you're going to have to go through. And Megan, this is the time where I think you and I get to have a one-on-one chat. We can leave AJ out of this because I think a lot of people generally have that running joke of how does this affect the Leafs on anything that happens around the league, right?

I think from our perspective, we're viewing this through the lens of how does this affect Logan O'Connor? And AJ was hinting at it a little bit there. But the idea that this line, which is performed remarkably well between Colton, L.O.C. and would, of course, they've kind of been stretched a bit too far, in terms of usage, out of necessity because they've played so well and because other players have been out of the lineup. And now all of a sudden, this idea that you get to bump them down into a more traditional third line in terms of usage and allow them to expend even more energy on a per minute basis when they're out there knowing that they won't have to be out there as often,

all of a sudden, the potential of just unleashing them and terrorizing opposition with their work ethic and everything they do is highly enticing as well, right? And that's the beauty of a move like this, where it allows everything structurally to kind of fall into place more evenly. And then all of a sudden, you get into a position where each of your lines is winning their matchups by a certain margin. And that's how you win a Stanley Cup, right? It's not necessarily just having one line that is really good. And then everyone else trying to kind of hang on for dear life, it's pretty much being able to have players who on their spot in the lineup are kind of of too good for that, but that's by design.

It's not like a bad thing. That's good to have players who could be playing on a second line, all of a sudden playing third line minutes, and that's the luxury of a move like this. I love the Logan O'Connor Engel. I think it's a necessary call-out just because of the balance that will be restored to the forward group,

and particularly looking at when the top line has not been going, which has been at very few points this year, but it has happened. Some of the best shifts have come from that third line when they're expected to just be the third line. And it's because they help to extend possession by doing all of the dirty work that they do. They get the best ice available then to the next guys coming out.

And that's where the top unit can come on and just continue on that possession because that chaos line of Wood, Colton and O'Connor were the previous unit down. And I think that's an important callout for the ways in which Logan O'Connor and that line are able to contribute to the offense, even if they are not necessarily the goal getters,

though I'd like to see that increase. from this point on, they help the possession for Colorado overall. The other thing, too, is Sean Walker coming to Colorado makes the penalty kill better. And this might be where we're getting to carry it away. But we think with some of the puck moving ability of Sean Walker, as well as the defensive reliability and his strength on the PK specifically, Logan O'Connor is going to be able to get more shorthanded goals than ever before. And that's, yes, you're getting at the most important.

important part of this, certainly, from our perspective and from a lot of people listening who are also members of the Logan O'Connor fan club. AJ, let's talk a little bit about what Sean Walker then, because I don't want to say he's sort of the hidden gem of this, because I think throughout this process, he's been a name at top trade boards, right? He's a right, Sean defenseman who's performed really well this year, and he was top of mind for everyone. There were a bunch of teams interested in him, and that's all well and good. I am frustrated when deals like this are announced because I think sometimes they just get presented as, wow, I can't believe that Sean Walker got traded for a first round pick when in reality, like the fine print under it is,

well, the Flyers also took on an extra $4 million of Ryan Johansson's deal next year, gave back a fifth as well. There's other moving parts to his, which is why the Avalanche did what they did. But I think him as a player alone is someone to get very excited about and obviously a perfect fit for this team because I don't think it's an accident that he had this sort of Renaissance year he did in Philly where they were a very rush heavy team that allowed him to consistently activate and join the rush whenever he had the opportunity to do so. And he's going from a team that was fifth in rush chances this season according to Sport Logic to a team that's second. And we know

that he's going to have the opportunities to keep doing that in Colorado. So his instincts there and his skating ability as well in concert with the way the avalanche play and we know the way they attack off the rush, all of a sudden, seems like a match made in heaven as well. So I wanted to shout that out because I think he's going to hook really, really good playing in the system. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. The deadline, I think the deadline has become so much about

which numbered player on the trade board did my favorite team acquire. Therefore, did they do a good job? But you only have, the abs only have 18 games left this season. And that's assuming both of the new guys will play tomorrow. It might just be 17 depending. But the trade deadline is so much more about fit than it is than like a summer trade. Because the summer trade, you get a guy, you get guys and you give them 50 games to figure it out. At the deadline, they have at most about 20 games to try and fit in with the team,

find a role, learn the systems. and, you know, just get comfortable before you're in the postseason, where your season can end one week at a time. And with Sean Walker coming to Colorado, it's, there's no question about the fit. He's going to get dropped in. His game has gone to a completely different level. As you mentioned, he gets to Philadelphia.

he plays in a system that is all about rush opportunities, just rush. Take your chances, get up the ice, generate as much offense as you can. And it turns out he's really good at that. And you wonder where his career could have been if he had not spent so much time playing for a more reserved Kings teams that did not have that same mentality, that wanted to have a little more methodical approach to the game. that's not a concern in Colorado. He gets to just, again, it's unleashed the hounds.

It's, it's, you, you get to just play, a player gets to do what he does best in, in Colorado system where it's just get up the ice, go attack. And, you know, the evs, I know that there's, there are concerns about is there too much sameness between Sean Walker and Sam Gerard and Kail McCar? Are there too many puck movers here and not enough good defenders? And I'll say this. And I don't mean it as offense to Bowen Byram, but Bowen Byram wasn't a good defender this year.

He wasn't a good puck rusher. He wasn't particularly good in his own zone. So they took a player who is playing the best of his career. And if he can translate that caliber of play to Colorado, the upgrade on Colorado's defense is significant. They will get a guy that he's getting. going to get a puck and he's just going to fly up the ice with it. When they, when they have Casey Middlestat on, you know, leading, leading an odd man

rush the other way, Sean Walker is going to be the first defenseman. He's going to fly up the ice and try and get into this rush. And I, I said this, I said this yesterday a few times, but it's going to get comparisons to the Devon Taves trade when he got traded to the avalanche. It's reminiscent of it. They've got similarish profiles as really, underrated guys who are going to be great fits in Colorado. And when you find a, when you find a perfect fit like that, you know,

there's, there's always the possibility that the guy's game goes to an even bigger level. What happens when he's around even more talent and in a system that demands excellence of you, in a team, I should say, that demands excellence of you where the expectations are sky high. Every shift, you know, that it's go and do your job. We're trying to, it's about winning in Colorado. And I think it will be interesting to see how Sean Walker fits into that element of it. But just in terms of how he plays the game, he found a good home in Philadelphia that showcased that skill that he hadn't really gotten a chance to show the world all those years in L.A.

And now he's going to an organization that is turning over, you know, a new leaf. on that defense and saying, all right, go, go continue to do this. But Jack Johnson and Josh Manson are still there to kind of be the more well-rounded, your big physical mean guys, I guess, if you will. But Sean Walker is also an excellent PK guy. So, you know, he's such an interesting profile that he's not really an offensive defenseman, but he's not a defensive defenseman. he's just a really good fit in Colorado

and checks all the boxes out of what they need other than he's not 6-2. Well, yeah, his numbers playing on that second pair with Nick Seeler this year were obviously phenomenal at 5-15, and it totally passes the eye test when you watch it for a lot of the reasons we've mentioned. I'm not worried about that sort of overlap because I do think there's dynamic elements at place on these guys.

They're not just one-trick ponies, but also in this case, I really don't think you can have too much of a good thing because the avalanche, when they're at their best, play in such a defined way, right? It's just that like snowball effect of you're constantly playing downhill, you're pushing the pace, you attack off the rush, but then as soon as a puck gets in the neutral zone, you're just going right back in it. And his ability to push that pace, but also to get involved as kind of like the weak side guy who's joining the rush in those cases is going to fit in so seamlessly from day one.

And he can basically just keep playing the way he had been playing all season. So that idea of like, oh, there's only 16, 17, 18 games. or whatever left to acclimate to this. I think this is a bit of a different animal. It's kind of like a juiced up version of what they were doing in Philly, but it's also not this entirely different thing. And something what we know, I think, about all players, but especially defensemen,

is how sort of situational or environment-based their success can be, right? It's like if you ask someone who struggles with certain things to all of a sudden play on a team that is constantly putting them in those spots, of course their underlying numbers aren't going to look good and they're going to struggle and be exposed. in this case, I think they're just going to ask him to essentially tap into all the stuff that he does well. And so the fit makes a lot of sense there. Anything else before we get out of here from either of you on either of these two deals

or kind of the dust settling here as we get closer to the deadline in terms of looking ahead or the fallouts or stuff that you're interested in watching for, either you can jump in and provide if you got anything on any of those things. I wanted to ask you what your view of the trade was. From my perspective, this was a masterclass from Chris McFarland, it gets a pretty high grade in my book. But I want to see what the around the league feel for it is. Yeah, no, I thought it was great because I thought not only did they obviously address a massive need, but they kept their powder dry in a sense, right?

They kept that 24 first. They kept all their top prospects, which I thought they might have to par with if they made a move of this consequence. They shed money along the way as well, not only for the rest of this season. I think Cap Friendly has about $3 million left, so we'll see if they use that in another forward between now and Friday's deadline, but also this summer when all of a sudden they're going to have to retain middle status as an RFA, but they've kind of carved out extra room and flexibility here to still improve their team. And I think something that's really hard to manage for teams that are in the situation Colorado is,

is like there's two separate timelines, right? You're obviously committed to trying to win Stanley Cup now and get back to the mountaintop with this team, but also you have players who are in their prime so you don't necessarily want to box yourself in just this season. Now, those two timelines are kind of competing usually where you sort of have to pick one or the other and they kind of go at the expense of the other one. In this case, I think they made their team quite a bit better

for the rest of the season, while also potentially at least giving themselves room to get even better moving forward as well. And so I think in that case, you have to give them top marks and they did so in an aggressive, creative way, which as someone who talks about hockey and breaks down these trades and creates content,

I also appreciate deeply. And so full marks for me, and it's really tough to sort of quibble with any of this stuff acknowledging there is certainly some risk whenever you trade a player like Bowen Byram. I think the reward and the attainable reward at that is worth it.

So, no, I really liked it. I think it makes a lot of sense. Okay, I'll let the two of you plug some stuff because obviously you're going to be very busy. You already have been breaking this stuff down over at DNVR, but also I'm sure there's a lot to come as well. So Megan, plug some stuff and let the listeners know what they can look forward to. All right. You can find us on Twitter slash X at DNVR Avalanche. AJ is Return of AJ and I am at

Meg Angley on Twitter slash X.com. And then all of our written articles are on the DNVR sports.com. Awesome. Well, thank you to two of you for taking the time. I know it's a very busy couple of days, but I'm glad we got to do this. I'm sure the listeners will appreciate it as well. So enjoy the next couple of days here. Hopefully you stay sane and make sure it takes time for yourself during all of this madness. So thank you to both of you. Thank you to the listeners for listening to us. We'll be back on Friday, as I said off the top with a full look at the league. So apologies to teams like the Golden Knights and Oilers and Panthers who made their teams better as well yesterday. But I wanted to focus on the halves today. We'll get to all that stuff with a league-wide view on Friday. So looking

forward to that. And thank you for listening to the HockeyPedio cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio network.