The Hockey PDOcast - Artemi Panarin's New Grip and Rip Playing Style

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Jonny Lazarus to talk about the New York Rangers, Artemi Panarin's extreme change in offensive philosophy, Alexis Lafreniere's improvement on his off-wing, and the pros and cons of the team's playing style this season under Peter Laviolette. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedocast. My name is Dmitra Filippovich and joining me for the first time making his triumphant debut appearance on the show. My good buddy, Johnny Lazarus, Johnny. What's going on, man? Dimitri, it's an absolute honor to be here. I'm a big fan of your work. So very excited to be face-to-face and talk some hockey with you here. This is going to be fun, man. We're going to do a New York Rangers deep dive. You know, for a team that has been, a top, not only the Eastern Conference, but the entire NHL standings for the majority of the season. I know they slipped up a little bit here over the past couple weeks, but I haven't spoken nearly enough about this team, it feels like, just because we've been speaking about

him so much as currently constitute over the past couple years. And I think people generally know what to expect. And I know there's some new parts and there's certainly a new coach and they're playing a bit differently this season. But I've just been kind of preoccupied, I guess, with other stuff going on around the league. And so I thought it would be a good opportunity to bring you in and talk about this team. What's the vibe check like right now? because I know that the defense has slipped up a little bit here recently. There's been a few odd characteristic performances, but still, I believe they're fourth in the league in point percentage right now, second of the east, just behind Boston.

So all things considered, I think it's been a pretty good season so far through the first 40 games or so. Yeah, I mean, even that point you just made, it got me thinking right off the bat. Like, is this Rangers team exciting to the rest of the league? Like, I get to watch them day in, day out. So, like, it's fun for me, but did they have as much flare as they normally? have in the past years. I feel like when you take away Tarasenko and Kane, it's a little bit, you know, less attractive maybe to the overall NHL fan, but I still feel like this team is so exciting to watch night

and night out. But then there is, again, that little argument where you don't have the flashes like you do when you see McDavid play in the Oilers or Jack Hughes on the Devils, Nathan McKinnon, Cam McCar, Miko Randon on the avalanche. Like, there are some teams that just are must watch TV every night. and I don't know if the Rangers are that right now. Obviously, you have a guy like Artemi Panarin, who's been unbelievable this year, and then Alexei Lafranier has shown flashes. Adam Fox has been interesting.

I think since coming back from injury, he hasn't been his typical self. But, you know, I'm actually curious to ask you, is a reason why you're not really tuning in every night is just because it's not, you know, this New York Ranger fancy, cute, pretty hockey that we've seen in years past. It's more of that nitty-gritty, one-three-one. get to the dirty areas kind of team.

A little bit of that. Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly tuning in every night. Just in terms of talking points, I guess, on this show, there's been some more recent headlines or kind of things that have kind of come more out of left field. I would argue, actually, that they've been more exciting from a watchability perspective this season because a lot of what you mentioned there in terms of

talking about the coaching impact and what Peter Lavial that's brought to the table, but with his more sort of aggressive defending style and trying to attack more up the ice defensively, that's created some problems for them in terms of rush defense, and we're going to get into that a little bit, but it's also created a more rush element for them themselves, right? And so they've been attacking more that way. But you mentioned Panarin there,

and I kind of want to start with this because the level he's been playing at this season, and in particular, the way he's all of a sudden chosen to play, I think has dramatically increased their entertainment value. I had someone, I tweeted a link of him scoring a goal the other day, and someone responded to me and said, Panarin randomly deciding at age 32 to shave his head bald and shoot twice as much as he ever has before is a midlife crisis we can all get behind.

And I think that is a perfect summary of it. And I'll pose this question to you then. I was thinking about this a little bit in preparation for the show. And I couldn't come up with anything off the top of my head in terms of a stylistic transformation like this for a player that's as established as Panarin is at this age. that's this extreme in this direction, right? If anything, what we see from players as they get into their 30s is they start to slow down a little bit.

Their own individual shot rates start to decline, right? Because they're just not getting to their spots as often. Maybe they're a step slower. The decision making kind of grinds to a halt. And so they just get fewer looks off. And in this case, he's dramatically gone in the opposite direction where it almost is to the point where he's shooting nearly twice as often as he has at any point in his NHL career. and I can't really think of any comps to this.

And this isn't just sort of like a little blip or kind of a statistical aberration or talking about 40 games now of like a clear concerted effort on his part to change the way he's playing. And I think a lot of that has to do with the criticism he faced last year in the playoffs. I mean, Art Temerun Aram was aware of what people were saying about him. He's been a regular season merchant the last couple of years playing for the Rangers. And then once the playoffs come, even though I think he was still fine in the 2020 or 2021, to conference final run.

Last year, obviously, it was a little bit more disappointing. He has those two points, I think, in game one and then doesn't see the score sheet again in the rest of that series. So I think a big thing for him was his confidence and his lack of confidence that he talked about on exit day in his meetings last year. He spoke to the media and said that, you know, no matter how hard he tried, things just kept getting worse and worse and worse for him. And, you know, that wears on you, not only as a player, but as a person.

And, you know, you take that into the offseason and you think about ways you can be better. and one way he can be better was shooting the puck more. I mean, he's already surpassed his goals from last year, you know, and we're about at the halfway mark, which is crazy. So another thing for him, too, is, you know, I think last year he was guilty of deferring to his linemates. Like, I think he played a little bit, you know, with Patrick Kane and his linemates were constantly shifting,

whereas this year it's been a solidified line the entire way. Granted Philip Heedle was their center in the beginning, but Heedle gets hurt on November 2nd, I believe. So less than a month into the year. and now him Trochek and Lafranier have not been separated once the entire season. Laviolet is also double-shifting him very often. Laviolet understands how impactful Panarin is

when he's at the top of his game. And not only offensively, but when Panarin's bought in defensively, it just benefits this team offensively as well. So Lovilat's touching that a lot. He's double-shifted him a lot, and it's paying off for Panarren. And I think he's having more of that aggressive mindset

as opposed to, you know, making that extra third, fourth, backdoor pass. you can just sense that he's taking a whole new approach this year, and I think a lot of it has to do with the criticism you faced last year. Yeah, I mean, he's fourth in the league in goals. He's on pace for 55, I believe, at this point. He's got a point on 43.5% of every goal that the Rangers have scored as a team. And I mentioned the shot rate.

I've got it down here by season for his career, 7.6 per hour, 7.9, 8.4, 7.5, 8.8, 7.7, 7.7.6. You're getting a trend there, 12.6 this season. I mean, this is just unheard of almost. He's sixth in the league in both shots on goal and attempts. And you're right. Like, you took a lot of flack. And I think generally it can be undeserved or unwarranted in a lot of cases, right?

When a star player underperforms in a playoff series, especially when it's like a short one round kind of appearance. And, you know, five, six, seven games, you can have dry spells. Things don't go your way. And we put out too much stock into it sometimes. In this case, though, watching that series against the devil last year, it wasn't. just that he wasn't scoring, he only had the one secondary assist at 5-1-5 of that entire series, but that line in general was just very ineffectual, right? Like the devil's speed very clearly got to them, and they just weren't able to get

looks off. And so the fact that he's playing at this level, not only in the power play, where the Rangers have the top power play in the league this season, but also a 5-on-5 where now they've established this connection with him, a lot for Nierre, and Trochequec as a line, and they're just dominating territorially as well, I think that's opened up an entirely different sort of set of possibilities for this team because of the way they're playing, right? Like, for the most part in past seasons, the points would be there eventually. You'd get the counting stats in the production, but you'd always wonder, all right, well,

at 5-1-5, there's still a lot left to be desired. In this case, you look up, and they're dominating the puck. They're dominating shots, chances, any metric you want to look at with those three guys out there. And I think that does represent like a massive change from previous seasons. And a lot of that has to do with Lexi Lafringier, honestly. He deserves so much credit. You know, he only has, what, 25 points right?

now on 39 games, which is a big jump for him, I think. But I saw a stat the other night, and excuse me if it's not correct right now, uh, during a warm up Madison Square Garden always throws up these little nuggets, uh, on specific players. And for Lexi Lafranier, it had him at a hundred and five, five on five scoring chances, which was eighth in the league and first on the team. I don't know where he is now, but Alexei Lafranier throughout his early career has always at least made plays and had a positive impact at five on five.

you know, he's been like third on the team and even strength goals. And maybe the points aren't there because he hasn't really seen any first unit power play time. And he's probably not going to as long as this five is together because, you know, like you said, they're the best power play in the NHL and they have been consistently now for two or three seasons. So, you know, as much as I do feel for Lafranier that doesn't get that first power play unit time, there's nowhere really to put them right now where, you know, you'd make a significant change in what's already a huge success. So Lafranier, though, at five on five for Panarin's production this year has been such a boost. And you see that the two of them love playing with one another.

I mean, they're so happy on the ice together every day. You can see it in practice. You can see it in the games. At Panarin has had so many incredible things to say about playing with Lafranier and vice versa. Obviously, I mean, who wouldn't say anything bad? Who would say something bad about playing with Aaron? But, you know, as good as Trocheque has been also, I think Lafranier deserves so much credit. And the two goals the Rangers scored against Vancouver.

or night were both off a Lafranier rushes. No, they were. And my colleagues at EP ringside, Jack Fraser and David St. Louis did a phenomenal job writing this up. So I recommend everyone goes checks it up. They haven't already. But just to summarize the sort of improvements or changes to Lafranier's game this season. First, the activity and transition, which you mentioned there, kind of creating off the rush.

He went according to Corey Schneider's tracking from the 66th percentile last season to 95th percentile in zone entry. he's carrying in a lot more, right? They're giving a more sort of leeway to create off the rush, bring the puck in, and then make plays. And then the playmaking ability. And I think that's sort of chicken or the egg a little bit, right? When we talk about Panarin's goal scoring and shooting mentality and then Laperneur's passing,

they kind of feed into each other. But in terms of chance assists, he's gone up from 69th percentile, which was pretty nice, up to 90th. And then high danger possession or high danger passes from 22nd percentile only all the way up to 99. So you mentioned that sort of chance contribution and chance created stat. It's a night and day in that regard. And so I know that like 21 goal pays 53 points or whatever he's on right now in terms of

raw counting stats won't necessarily blow you away. But he's played less than 50 power play minutes so far this season. And you can see it already. I mean, his 9 515 primary assists, Joddy, are already represent a career high for him. In past seasons, you mentioned that whenever he was out there at 515, he'd be productive and and he'd be a contributing member of the line. But he was almost relegated to playing this kind of like bit part sort of replacement level guy where like he would just get him to go towards the net and then stand there

and try to tap it in and be the finisher or on whatever anyone else created. And now all of a sudden because of these changes, they've helped kind of unlock and unleash some of that creativity and problem solving as a playmaker that we saw from him as a prospect, right? There's a reason this guy was a first overall pick. And so the counting stats aren't necessarily going to blow. you away by any means, but just watching him play and how much more involved he is in important ways does represent such a massive change. And I think is a big reason for, as you alluded to,

why Panarin's been so much more productive. Yeah. And you mentioned that, what was it, high chance passes? Yes. High, like high danger passes. Yeah. High danger passes. There, there's this thing going on with him in Panarin this year where they have a ton of cross slot passes. I don't know what you labeled that stat as. Like Stephen Valcette always says the Royal Road, which I personally like a lot and especially because it caters to the Rangers. But there's been so many times where Lafaneer comes down his offside and whether he cuts back and zips a pass across the seam to Panarin or he just goes to his backhand and finds that lane to Panarin. I mean, those two have clicked on that pass a ton of times this year.

It's probably only gone in two or three times for both sides. Lafranier had a beautiful one against Edmonton in Edmonton from Panarin. And I'm blanking on the game. It might have been Washington when Panarin put one home from Lafranier. those two have connected on that pass a ton this year. And it's something that, you know, everyone questioned going into the season. Can Loughrinir find comfortability playing on the right side? And he looks even more comfortable on the right side than he ever has in the left, to be honest.

And I think that makes sense a little bit. Right, as a left shot coming down on an off wing, all of a sudden now, he's almost forced to attack the middle of the ice a little bit more. And that's giving him like an advantageous starting point where he's all of a sudden now in a place where he can make a bunch of different plays as opposed to just being on a strong side and kind of being up against the boards and being really bogged out. And so I think all that stuff ties together. But, you know, credit to Peter Leveolette in terms of like finally embracing this and full time giving him a shot to play this role. Because in his three previous seasons, we saw him

playing on his off wing with Panarin for 264 total minutes at five on five over three seasons. And they've already nearly doubled that this year. And so it's almost remarkable that it took this long. And I believe three coaches because I think the first season was David Quinn. And so the fact that it took this many seasons and coaches to finally try something like this on the one hand, that's kind of sad to think about it. But on the other, it's cool to see it finally happen and immediately provide the results that it has. Yeah. And it also takes maturity as well, right? Like, you know, I wouldn't put a lot of blame on David Quinn right away just because, you know, this team, you know, it was a pretty stacked roster. And I don't think Lafranier was, you know, drafted to be a number one

overall pick that was a franchise savior. You know, I think sometimes those number one picks are a little bit different, right? Like the comparisons always made is Jack Hughes. Like the devils were down on the dumps when they drafted Jack Hughes. He was brought in to completely change that franchise, which he has. So, you know, I mean, we've talked about it for so many years now where Lafringer and Kako, yeah, they're a one and two, but they're not like a team that you really build around. The Rangers already had the star power here.

And it's kind of where do those two fit in? so it's a little bit different than typical number one, number two overall picks. But granted, like you said, to Peter Lobelet's credit, I mean, he has stuck with it and it has been successful. So there's no reason why he should have broken it up. But, you know, we'll see what happens if that line does slow down, how he shakes things up. Because, you know, they've been the line that's consistently provided offense the entire year when things are going bad. It's those three that get it going in a positive light. So, you know, I'm curious to see if they go three or five games without producing a point or something,

which I'm hoping doesn't happen, the decision that's made if he separates them or lets him just figured out on their own. I kind of want to circle back just quickly before we move on other topics with the Rangers and just tie a bow on the Panarin part of it because I just think it's been so underreported in my opinion and part of,

I take a little bit of blame as well, right? I should have been talking about more on this show, but just in terms of preparation for this and going back and watching all the tape from this season and diving into the numbers, just like how much more he's shooting. Do you think part of it is the fact that he's now got this combination with Lafranier and Trochik, it allows him to actually just kind of settle into that shooter position a little bit more

because previously he had obviously been producing at such a high level, but you look at the combination of line mate they tried out with him. And it was like there's a bunch of Barclay Goodrode, Dryden Hunt, Colin Blackwell, Jimmy V.C., Vitaly Craftsov, like he'd go on down the line since he came to the Rangers. and it felt like the coaching philosophy was always, all right, well, let's just put whoever with him

because Panarin's so good that he's going to set the table for them and give them chances regardless of who we put with him. And now in this case, he's actually got a playmaker who's playing as well as Lafranierrez, and that's allowing him to not take a back seat, but kind of defer a little bit in terms of having the puck and carrying it,

and it's allowing him to settle into these shooting pockets a little bit more than he had the luxury of previous seasons. Well, yeah, you basically just said it. I mean, Panarin is one of those players that makes everyone around him better, but he hasn't been put on a line with one of those kinds of players. And now what we've learned is Alexei Lafranier is a similar kind of player, where maybe, you know, playing with Heidel and Kako in years past, I don't know if he would be the playmaker on that line.

He was probably the, maybe not the goal score either, I guess, because Heidel was the goal scorer for those three for the most part. But Lafranier definitely created a lot of chances. Coco possessed the puck a lot, obviously, and created out the cycle. But, you know, we're learning that Lafranier is also that player that makes those around him better. And Lafranier has made Panarin a better player. And Panarin has talked about it. Like, he's being found when he's open.

You know, and when he's on a line with Dryden Hunt or Andrew Cop and Colin Blackwell, I mean, Andrew Cop and Panar and were great together. But again, it was never cop finding Panarin. It was Panarin finding Cop. So I think, you know, like you just mentioned, all those guys. And, you know, I actually want to give credit to Colin Blackwell. He was actually really good when he was here. I like Colin Blackwell. I didn't mean to take that as like a flyby shot of Corom Blackwell, but. But he's not Lexington's not from here.

Yes, different caliber of players, certainly. Exactly. So, yeah, I mean, to your point, Panarin has been able to find open areas and actually be found, you know, where in years past, the puck just doesn't get to him. So I think that's been a big part of it as well. Well, I've been really lucky this season I get Darryl Belfry to come on here every week for about 50 minutes at a time. And we deep dive players and we talk about sort of skill content. I guess, right? And it's been so cool, just getting to pick his brain and kind of learn from him. And something that he keeps coming back to when we talk about shooting ability or just shooting talent is how important like sequencing is for it. Because on the one hand, if you just look at the numbers

and the raw shot totals, they tell you one story. But you actually have to go back and watch what happened preceding the shot. And in this sense, that's what I keep coming back to when I watch Panarin because in previous seasons, because of how much he had to set the table for others and be a pointmaker, he would like hold on to the puck, right? And we know that he likes to kind of probe around the offensive zone and play around with it. And then eventually when he'd exhaust every other option, he'd be like,

all right, I'll finally, I guess I'll take this myself and I'll shoot it, right? And that's almost as a last resort. And that's kind of a disadvantageous position to be shooting from. Whereas in this case, you go back and you watch every single shot he's taken this season. And a lot of it is, it's a real shoot first mentality in the sense that he's waiting for Lafranier passed it to him. And the catch and release is immaculate, right? There was the goal, I believe it was against the Capitals recently.

Yeah. Where, like, the puck was on a stick for almost negative amount of time. Like, a short side snipe, right? But it wasn't like a one-timer, right? Like, he caught it and he pulled it in and then he released it in the blink of an eye and the goal he couldn't even react. And it may as well have been a one-timer. But that displayed sort of a special level of skill on his part.

And maybe that is a good reflection of kind of what we're talking about here in terms of like he's focusing more on his shooting. and he's in a position to do so. And I think that's also why he's scoring more goals beyond just the fact that he is shooting more. Yeah, I mean, I don't even have an argument. I don't know that was just a perfect way to say it. I mean, that goal specifically, like you mentioned,

it was like literally bang, that quick. You know, it's really impressive what he's done. And it's always been there. You know, that's the thing too. Like you think back to when he played a Patrick Kane, his rookie year, like this is the guy we saw, I think, right? For the most part, you know, like, yeah, he set up Kane for a lot of nice goals too, but Patrick Kane when he found Panarin.

Panarin was ripping one-timers from the top of the circles in five-on-five play. Like those two would just reel around the offensive zone. They'd find, you know, an inch or two of open space and let it rip. So I think that's what we're seeing from Panarin this year. He's kind of, you know, clocked it. I don't know if that's the term, but turn back to clock. Yes. And thank you.

Yeah, thank you. And, you know, he's a goal score. And he's always been incapable of it. So good for him. Okay, here's my question for you then, though, because despite Panarin's brilliant. this team is still 18th in the league in 5-1-5 scoring as a team. And they're first in the league on the power play. So that helps bring it up in terms of the overall totals.

But part of that, I think, is because they're essentially getting like nothing offensively from the bottom of the forward lineup, right? You look and guys like Goodrow and Benino and Pitt, like when he's been playing, have been kind of zeros offensively. And whatever, that's fine. Like those guys aren't necessarily paid to score goals. And so you can't necessarily blame the fact that they're 18th on that. I think a bigger issue for me is how they get Mika Zabinajad going at 5-on-5.

And this isn't necessarily a new phenomenon. And listen, he's still on pace for 30 goals this season. He's a point of game. So he's certainly contributing and being a factor in other areas. And so I don't want to overstate his offensive struggles. But you look, he's got the 5-5-on-5 goals so far this season, which is less than Keondre Miller on his own team. And I'm a big Keondre-Miller fan, certainly.

And I love to see him getting more involved offensively. but with Sabinez's usage and shooting talent, that should not be the case, and he should be scoring significantly more. And so that's my question for you, because I think that is something we keep coming back to, especially in the postseason, right? It seems like whenever they stagnate, it's how do you get that line going to 5-1-5. And then once he's humming, it just looks entirely different and everyone else gets more involved. And so I think that's something I keep coming back to when I think about the ceiling for this team

and their playoff outlook in terms of freeing him up to be more of a factor as a scorer at 5-on-5 because you know the power play stuff's going to be there, but I think that's an important part of this equation. But also I feel like he's getting the chances. They're just not going in. You know what I mean? It's not like he's irrelevant out there at 5-on-5.

I mean, just based on eye tests, you know, I'm not going off any stats or anything. But there were a lot of moments early in the season when he had opportunities that just weren't fine in the back of the net. you know, I'm pretty sure as a band-jad maybe had like three goals in the first like 15 games of the year, maybe even less. It might have been two. So he really struggled off the bat, but those chances were there.

And sometimes that's just how it goes, right? And especially with him, I mean, he's been known to be probably the streakest superstar in Rangers. And I don't know if he's a superstar on the league, but he's a superstar here for sure. Streakest superstar in New York Rangers franchise history. I mean, we've seen this guy get incredibly hot and it seems like no one can stop him. and then we see him go cold and it feels like he's never going to score again. So, you know, there are peaks and valleys with Nika's advantage at a 5 and 5, but it's not like, you know, it's not there, you know?

So it's interesting. I don't know what they can do to get him going at 5 and 5. They just put Will Cooley on the first line and he's been, you know, one of the guys that's chipped in in the bottom 6 at 5 on 5 in his rookie year. I believe he's got 7 goals this year. I don't have it in front of me, but I think just off my memory there, he's got 7. And so hopefully Will Cooley can be that guy that gets him and Crider going on the first line. Blake Wheeler is showing some spurts.

Capo Caco didn't really have, you know, much positivity on the first line this year, which is wild because he was so successful on it last year. Don't know what changes that air in the off season. But Will Cooley has earned every opportunity to play on this first line. He's been awesome. He's a 200 foot player. He throws the body. He has some skill. He shoots the puck.

Not afraid to fight. Steps up for his teammates. I mean, he's been a huge blessing for this team this year. So to see him on the first line with those two could be something that changes the trajectory for the rest of the season. It could be. And I'm very curious to see them play together. I do think, and I know early in the season, that tied into that lack of production that you mentioned for Zabana at the start of the year. I want to see more Kako on that line, though.

And I thought that, you know, last year in the postseason, not much went right pretty much from game three on for them against the Devils. we saw this like one little brief cameo of them putting Kako back together with Zabinajad and Crider in that series. And the devils during those shifts, it was like the first time they gave them any real sustained trouble in the offensive zone because they could just get the puck below the goal line and kind of cycle it and grind them down a little bit and sort of bully ball it with their size. And then they just went away from it. And there were a lot of missteps and things that went wrong in that series. But I think that that's something that I would have liked to see them explore more. And so I think that might be the answer in my opinion. I know the goals weren't there early in the season,

but just Kako's ability to play make as a passer, but also contribute to possession. All of a sudden, that might open Zabinajad for a bit more of those shooting opportunities. I just want to see them put him in a spot where he's able to post up in the slot and get regular passes coming his way for him to tee off on it, right? Because we see it on the power plant,

we see how lethal it can be. And that's something that he isn't really, like he's getting looks here and there, but it's not a consistent dose of them at 5-on-5 the way I think he needs. Yeah, and Crider's certainly not a playmaker. Blake Wheeler is certainly not a playmaker. So it's tough. Well, prime Blake Wheeler would have been a different story.

But I think at this stage of his career, it's a bit of a different look. Five years ago, yes, Blake Wheeler is a playmaker. Where he is right now, certainly not. And people have been a little bit mis-skewed because they thought they were getting the Blake Wheeler five years ago. But you got a guy who was making 800-K. Like, he shouldn't be looked. over of what he's making just because of his name and what he used to be.

Like, this is an 800K player right now. And I don't know if you disagree or agree with that. I'm actually curious in your thoughts. Yeah. I would say he looks like an 800K player at this point. But it's fine, right? Like last year when he was getting paid. He's become the punching bag.

He's become, you know, the scapegoat for everything. Right. Well, it's because of the name and sort of what he represents in league circles. And I guess the idea of what it used to be, right? But you're right. If you strip away the name and everything and you just, you pay him eight, 100k and you see what you're getting. It's like, yeah, this is what it is in 2020.

If he's making $4 million a year, it's a different story, but he's making the $800K that he should be making right now. Yeah. But also, I think that the fact that we've seen as much of him on that line as we have probably brings you back to, I know there's been injuries, right? But when we're thinking about sort of what this team is going to do around the deadline or what potential needs are for them between now and the postseason,

figuring out that right wing in the top six and sort of figuring out who's going to play in that role long term is, I think, an important part of this, right? It's probably number one at this point, right? Well, depending on Philip Heel status, I would say that's one. But if Heedle isn't returning, I think having a third line center is probably number one. But I think all signs point toward Heidel making a comeback for the playoffs. You know, obviously his progression right now has been a little bit slower than most people would have thought he's back home and check you working out with the trainers that he works

with over the summer, which is both good and bad because you want. want to see him with the team. You want to see him with the guys. But if he's not playing, it's probably bad for his mental to be here. So it's good for him to be back home where he can be with family. And you know, that's something that people regret to. Like, you know, being injured is not easy. And when you're injured and you're not from this country and you don't really have anyone to lean on aside from your teammates, probably when you're left all alone on road trips and whatnot, it could be challenging. So I thought it was the right move to send Hedle home. And, you know, hopefully that's been a positive progression for him. But yeah, I think come

trade deadline time. I'm, you know, the name that I've thrown out there that I'd love to see come back, but I think most Ranger fans love to see him back is Frank Petrana. You know, he's been very, very vocal that he loves New York City. He loved his time here, even though it was only five months, but he thrived here. I think he had, you know, off the top of my head, I think it was like eight goals and 21 games in the regular season. Is that right? I'll be very impressed to myself if it is.

That's right. I'll take your word for it. It sounds right. I know, I remember he was very productive. Yeah, he was incredibly productive in the playoffs as well. And he was a well-like guy here. So if that's possible, I think he has one year left on his deal, which I believe at 3.5. Yeah, 3.65.

And I guess that's the only reason I push back. I love the fit and I love the idea. I just don't know if this Rangers team's team's in a position where they can really afford to take on any future money, especially at the 3.65. Now, obviously, I think any deal would involve deducts retaining and potentially even doing one of these modern trades we've seen where you get a third team involved and really bring that salary. down quite a bit and pay for it accordingly. But yeah, I think we're probably looking more of the pure sort of rental expiring deal route just because they've got some bonuses upcoming with the Wheeler and Quick contracts, right?

They've got Lingren and Kako and Schneider as RFAs and they don't really have any significant money coming off the book. I know the cap's going up 5% next season. But it's still like it was very tight this off season and they had to make it work with their RFAs. I think it's going to become even more so next season. And so I don't love the idea or I don't think it's very plausible for them to take on any future money. But yeah, I mean, if you're talking about skill sets, like that's certainly one that I'd be very intrigued by for this team.

And I think they would try to make it work with him because I believe he was well loved by the organization when he was here. And it seems to be like a pretty good two-way street between the player and the organization. So, you know, maybe this summer there's a potential buyout for Berkeley Goodrow. I think that's one contract that most people want to see you come off the books for the most part. I think he has what two years left, maybe three years left, partly good draw. I'm not sure how many years left on his deal, but I think he's making 3.5, 3.6. And, you know, he's been a fourth line guy. He shouldn't really be making that much.

And again, it's not a knock on Goodrow. You know, I think if you, you know, I think I said it yesterday on a show. If you flopped the money that Goodrow and Eric Gustafin were making, no one would have bat an eye. because Eric Gosserson's been phenomenal this year and he's been way better than a 925 player but you know just how the NHL works with money right you got to perform to what you're being paid for no I agree with that I

what I'd be interested by as a team like the Cracken I know that they've been winning recently right they've been in a bit of a run for no no in terms of a trade right in terms of like looking for fit I know that you know Domless Trishon has him at about 30% now to make the playoffs we'll see how the next couple weeks go before the trade deadline. But with guys like, you know, either a Jordan Eberley on the right wing,

who I think certainly has a very intriguing skill set for this Rangers team or an Alex Wembrook down the middle. Both guys are expiring, which I like and could be on reasonable retained cap hits. So that would be a team that I was kind of thinking about for the Rangers as a trade partner. Yeah, I'd be certainly interested in that. Okay, Johnny, let's take a quick break here. And then when we come back, we'll finish our conversation back up and keep chatting about the New York Rangers.

you are listening to the Hockey PEOCast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. All right, we're back here on the HockeyPedio cast with Johnny Lazarus. We're talking Rangers. Johnny, so we talked about the forward group a little bit. You mentioned in passing Adam Fox after his injury. And, you know, I agreed with you

in just watching these games play based on the eye test. He hasn't quite looked like himself since he's come back from injury, right? The standard mobility and kind of elusiveness that we've come to appreciate. in lovering his game hasn't been there and it makes sense after the knee injury he had. If anything, it's kind of remarkable that he missed this little time as he did after how bad that injury initially looked.

The numbers don't really back that up. Like I was looking at it pre and post injury and it's relatively the same, right? Like the individual scoring has dried up a little bit, but he's been pretty unlucky in terms of puck scoring in when he's been on the ice. And so I just kind of wanted to pass on that note because I went into it expecting to see some sort of dramatic drop off because it hasn't. and looked quite the same to my eye, much like yours, but he's been fine for the most part.

And I think maybe just partly, you know, I was really excited to watch that, not head-to-head match up, because it's like two defensemen are never really going to go ahead to head, but when the Canucks were in town, just watching Quinn Hughes and the level he was playing at and then being excited to see them go back and forth and sort of trade punches on the ice.

And it was very one-sided in that regard with the Canucks taking that game. But, yeah, I'm kind of curious to see what the rest of the season looks like from Fox. if he can sort of start to resemble more of the player that we've become accustomed to. Well, yeah, like you said, Dimitri, he's been fine. But we're used to seeing him be exceptional, right? Yeah, nor Norris caliber. Exactly. So I think that's something that's been a little bit different.

But again, like, you know, he's a guy who, you know, some fans have been a little bit harder on him as of late, you know, saying he's been playing, you know, not so well. But, you know, it's interesting to my good buddy, Chris Jstromsky, who is better known as jazz on TNT, the researcher for them. I texted him the other night about time on ice spent with Fox and Panarin versus like the rest of the league with a pretty high caliber defenseman and a superstar. Fox and Panarin were at least in the bottom five of the names that I asked about, which was McAvoy, Pasternak, Hughes and Bessor, also Hughes Pedersen, McDavid and Bouchard, and I believe McKinnon and McCarr. and those guys appear to always be on the ice together

where for some reason I don't know if it's lavalette and how he just has his matchups and whatnot Fox and Panarin have only been in the ice together for like 183 minutes at least for what it was the other night I believe it was after the Vancouver game so they played one game oh no they haven't even played a game in between so yeah it was a hundred and three minutes after last night or after Monday night sorry my mind's all the place

but you know what I'm saying so I think that's something to take into effect too where if you don't have your best defenseman out there with your best forwards a lot of the time. It's kind of showing the production. So I think that's something maybe the Rangers can take note of and try to get those two out together a little bit more. Yeah, that's a good, good shout.

I think, you know, let's pivot a little bit here and talk about the coaching. You mentioned Laviolette there, right? Because I think going, I was very intrigued to see what it looked like heading into the season and everything we heard in the preseason was very encouraging in terms of the tactical changes they were going to implement and how he wanted them to play. And I think for the most part, we've seen that. it's funny recently I've like seen a lot of quotes of players sort of being like yeah you know at the start it was jar glens kind of like let us do whatever we want approach was fine but it would have

it would have been nice to have you know more sort of hands-on coaching at times even in forget the games even like practices and stuff like that in between games and that's something you're certainly historically going to get from peter lab you let you let and whether you want to call it kind of like management or even micromanagement in some cases. He wants his, he wants control of everything, right? He wants his hand and all the jars. And so seeing that so far this season, I think it makes a lot of sense for a team that's in a win now competitive window

like they are, right? Like I think this is true for most coaches where their shelf life can be kind of short in today's NHL where you come in, you have immediate results, and then the message can kind of become a bit stale and maybe you wear your welcome. So three, four years down the line, I'm not sure if this is going to be a fit, but for year one and year two,

it seems like the fit between coach and team makes a lot of sense in that regard. Well, like you said, it's when now? So four years from now, who knows what their window is going to do? That's somebody else's problem. Yeah, exactly. But also it's just the way the roster is built. Four years from now, who the hell knows what this team looks like?

You know, this isn't really a group that's building towards something. It's building, it's been built, right? Like, this is kind of what you're going at with. So they have to figure it out in the next one to three years, I'd say. so, you know, it's just the way it is, but Lavey lets message, you know, I think he's been successful everywhere he's went in his first year, right? I think that's something that's kind of carried and stuck with him a little bit. And, you know, maybe I said last year, Galant might have deserved one more year. You know, I think a first round upset against a really good Devils team that had

a really strong regular season, you know, shouldn't really be his ending. But with the roster he had, you have to get out of the first round. You just, you have to. Um, so I think he kind of, kind of had a tough scenario that was brought upon him. But the success that Galan had in the regular season speaks for itself. I mean, this team was, you know, beyond incredible for two straight years. Last year was a little bit more of, you know, maybe some, some rough patches here and there. But, you know, they finished strong and Chasturkin wasn't at the level he was at the year before. But he hasn't been that way this year either.

And they're still finding ways to win. So I think that's been the biggest thing, too, with Lavellet, is that the Rangers are in so many different ways, which last year wasn't really the case. You know, they took upon this no-quit-in-new-York motto under Gallant, which I personally hate because that just, you know, basically says, hey, we're never going to win convincingly. You know, like, it's no-quit New York means we're probably going to struggle here and there, but we're going to clare our way back and finally.

Well, it also took on an added sense of irony as you watch that game seven against the devil's unfold. fully quit. A lot of quit in New York in Game 7, which is one of my favorite jokes this summer. But you know what I mean? Like there hasn't really been many games. And granted, you know, there's been games I think in Montreal and Saturday. They go down and three nothing, come back, but they

fall short. You know, there has been some of those spurts where they do have that quote unquote no quit. But the games they're winning, which in years past have differed, there's been so many games to where the Rangers have a one goal lead in the last four minutes and they just could absolutely

peppered and you rely on your goal way to bail you out and that hasn't really been the case this year. So yeah, I think that's credit to Lobelet as well. And I think I rambled on a little bit. No, no. Well, listen, the thing that I really like and appreciate about Lavillette as a coach, beyond all that stuff in terms of like getting a lot out of his players and the motivation and all that and how demanding he can be in a good way is his like tactical preparedness, right? And like him realizing like what team he has and then acting accordingly. I think back to that playoff series, with the Capitals and the Panthers two years ago in round one, right, where the Panthers come in as the President's trophy champion with so much more

talent than that Capitals team had. And the Capitals gave them a real scare where they almost went up three one in that series and we're really taking it to them for stretches of it. Is there a controversy in that game too? Yeah, there was. It certainly could have gone completely south for Florida and been a one-sided series. I forget the details of it, but I do remember there was something involved. Sorry, I mean to cut you off.

but the Caps had a one goal lead in game four and someone went for the empty net. It was called an icing and the Panthers ended up scoring, I think on that six on five. So they had a chance to ice it, but they missed by like an inch. Yeah. Well,

I just remember that it wasn't very aesthetically pleasing, but he definitely sort of laid the groundwork for what Tampa Bay would do to him to an even greater effect than the following round when they swept Florida. And he just completely ground that high flying offense to a halt, right? And it was like very, it was passive defending in terms of in the neutral zone with like the one three one, but also in ways it was very calculated and aggressive as well. And the ability to sort of like adjust like that and implement stuff and do things to a team in a playoff series is very important if you want to make a long run.

And I know that this Rangers team made that Eastern Conference final run two years ago under a Galand. But he was much more, we would say it jokingly, but he really was. And I think he even as much like he's a vibes coach, right? He just wants everyone to be feeling good and playing well, but there wasn't necessarily any tactical genius involved to it. And so in this case, I think the value of this will be shown, if anything, in a long playoff run. But right now, I'm kind of curious for your take in terms of like on the ice from a schematical perspective, if you're seeing anything different in terms of that defending in the neutral zone and whether they're involving defense and more of the way they promised to early in the season and kind of how that has played into all this, right? because I think it's certainly a great system for a guy like Keandre Miller,

who I really want to see embrace that part of his game a bit more. Maybe that would potentially explain a little bit why Adam Fox's play hasn't been the way we've come to expect because he's a bit more of a sort of like slow it down, freelancer as opposed to just kind of moving north-south the way that I think Peter Labia would ideally want as a defenseman to play. Well, you just took the words out of my mouth because Keaneraner was the example I was going to give. Yeah. He's like made in a lab to play the way Peter.

Alavula wants a defenseman to play. Legit. And I've talked to him about it this year. And he still says, he says it every single time we ask. He doesn't feel like he's playing his best hockey. And that might be the case defensively because Kianre, there's been times where, you know, I think everyone would agree with his frame. He's got to be a little bit tougher in the D zone. I think sometimes he just plays a little bit too soft.

And, you know, I wasn't a tough guy, so I have a hard time telling him to be a little bit tougher. But, you know, when you're that big, you got to just throw the body a little bit more, or maybe even just like box guys out a little bit more. I think just playing too loose in the D zone, but what he's done offensively, I mean, there's been so many cases this year where the Rangers are set back in the neutral zone

clogging up the middle, and Keandre picks off a breakout pass and takes it in the other way and creates offense off of it. I mean, I've seen that time and time again. I think three or four of his goals have come from that as well, where he picks off a pass in the neutral zone and creates offense off of it. So Keondre has been the perfect example of what you were just alluding to, and, you know, I hate to use that.

example because you just said the name for me. You kind of team me up perfectly. But that's also not Adam Fox's game. You know, Fox is not a north-south speed guy. He's more of that east-west, you know, open up everyone else on the ice kind of player. Like, you know, rarely do you see. And everyone, you know, this is something I'd love to debate with you too, because there's always the Fox Macar comparisons, right? Like a lot of people love that discussion. They are two completely different players. Cal McCar can create scoring chances for himself better than any defenseman that I know in the NHL. Adam Fox can create scoring chances for his teammates

better than anyone in the NHL that I know. I think that's what separates them. If you put Adam Fox and Cal McCar on the San Jose Sharks, Cam McAar is going to have more points than Fox because Cam McAar is going to create on his own, he's going to create scoring chances he's going to finish and he's going to score goals. He'll probably put up 20. But Adam Fox and the Sharks, he's not going to produce as much as Cal Macar would

because he doesn't have the guys around him that are going to finish and that are going to get open. So I think that's a huge argument between the two players. And, you know, maybe Fox, for whatever reason, hasn't been able to find that North-South game this year. But Keandre has and Eric Gustafin has. And that's really it. That echoes for the Rangers offensive defenseman.

A guy that's really thrived this year, though, that I think has been the most consistent guy in the blue line for the Rangers this year and call me crazy. Jacob Truba. He doesn't really do much offensively as far as creating, but he scored a couple goals in need at times. and the way he's defending this year has been the best I've seen him defend since his time spent in New York Rangers jersey. And he's been worth every single penny of that $8 million contract this season.

Well, I think that was a great differentiation between McCar and Fox that you laid out there. And I would also add to it that the perfect combination between the two is the way that Quinn Hughes has played this season. Right? And we've seen it at times depending on what they need from. He's obviously been much more aggressive as a shooter and score himself this season than he has been in years. passed. But in terms of putting all that together, I think that's why he's having the typo season he has and is a Nora's favorite right now. Okay, one final note on this that kind of ties the bow on the defensive side of things and the coaching. And you mentioned our pal of Steve Aliquette

earlier and some of his stats, which I always love when he posts like the report cards or the Rangers and stuff. And I think an important note in his Rangers profile that he had in there was, you know, they're really good at in-zone defending this season and I believe they're top, they're 10th in goals against, their 10th and expected goals against. And that's really good. The one issue they've had is they're dead last

in defending off of the rush this season. And now at the same time, I believe they're like fourth or fifth in the league in creating themselves off the rush. And maybe those two are kind of inextricable in a way where if you're pushing more north-south yourself off the rush, you're going to give back stuff. way and that kind of comes with the territory.

So it might be just as simple as that. But I'm kind of curious for your take on that because obviously that's very concerning, especially when you look at the sort of pace and skill that you're going to have to go up against in any postseason series against most teams you're going to run into. If you're bleeding chances off the rush that way, that's scary. And I think that could in large part explain why Igor's just Turk and say percentage isn't at the level we've become accustomed to, right? because it's down in 904 and that's, you know, surprising considering where it's been in the past.

At the same time, it's still a bubble league average. And I believe his like expected say percentage is in the 880s or something like that. And so he's still outperformed it based on the chances they've given up in front of them. So it's weird because I think they are good defensively in front of them. But in certain areas, when they do give up a chance, it's almost catastrophic, right? it's like to a lesser scale what we saw early in the season with the Oilers, where a lot of the numbers actually had them pretty good defensively, and then all of a sudden when they would give up a chance,

it would just be a great A off the rush, and most goalies are going to have difficulty with that, and it feels like that's what's been happening here, at least to some extent, with the Rangers, it's just turkine. Well, it comes down to one thing, and it's speed. They're not fast enough to get up and down the ice and keep up with everybody. I mean, I watched that Vegas Golden Knights, Colorado Avalanche game last night, and those two teams are flying.

The pace in that game is incredible. way those two teams skate. I mean, I actually want to ask you, who's number one right now in defending the rush? If I had to guess, I would say it's probably like what, Carolina. Yeah, they're always up there. They're always up there. I mean, Vegas is always, they're like one of the few teams that can get away with attacking very aggressively off the rush themselves and never giving stuff up back as well because of the personnel they have, right, and the way they play. So they're like a rarity in that regard. Generally, the teams that are really good at attacking off the rush are really bad at defending themselves because they get into that sort of trading chances track meet environment.

And so that's, I guess, kind of a slippery slope for a lot of teams. So maybe that would be a cause for a concern for the Rangers where it's good that they're creating more off the rush. But if it's a net negative in terms of durability to come back and defend in that way, then all of a sudden that can become a real problem. Yeah, but like I said before, too, they're just not fast enough to play that way. I mean, that was a huge issue going into this year was how do you address the team speed? That's why they got killed against the devils, because devils would fly up

and down the ice and skate all around them. And granted, like, they have fast players, but as a team, they're not very quick. You know, like the fast players, I think of are, like, Vinny Trocheck. Chris Kreider has, you know, explosive speed, but I don't know if he plays the game in a fast way. If that makes sense, you know, he's not, like, quick out of the corners or anything east-west. He's just up and down speed.

You know, I think Alexei Lafranier has actually improved a lot in his skating. I consider him to be a faster skater. but like as far as the forwards go like that's really it like maybe will coolly can be considered fast mika's band jads and and and uh our tiny panarin don't get me around there fine skaters but i wouldn't call them speed devens um you know what i mean so this isn't really a fast forward group for the most part yeah i'd say more those guys are more functional yeah fast as opposed to getting into a track meet yeah that's a good point all right johnny let's put a bow on it here and let's get out of here i'll let you plug some stuff on the way out because you've obviously got all

a lot going yourself with your new show and everything. So I'll let you let the listeners know a little bit about that and plug some stuff. Yeah, I mean, I'd love to plug my new show morning cup of hockey. It's every Monday through Thursday, 9 a.m. Eastern Time on the daily face off YouTube channel. I do with my partner, Kobe Cohen, who has been a mentor of mine for the last four or five years, former NHL player, won a national championship at BU, who scored the overtime winning goal in the Natty ship. Great guy.

And, you know, we bring on awesome guests. Like today, we had Kevin Curse from the athletic covering the flyers to, about the drama last night and Andrew Raycroft who covers the Bruins does stuff with Nessen, former NHL goalie. You know, we try to just get as many different people. We'd love to have you, Dimitri, as well, you know, in the hockey world, come on with us every morning and just talk about the trending topics in the NHL so you can just catch that show.

That's really all I want to plug right now. And anything else, you can just follow me on Twitter at Jay Lazi 23. And I'm always reposting Dimitri's videos of his mixtapes that he posts. I love them. And my favorite one as of late was Ilya Kobichuk, because he was. unbelievable as a player when I was growing up. I loved watching Kovacuk. But yeah,

it's really all I got. And Dimitri, thank you so much. I really do love your work. And I appreciate you having me on. It's great to finally chat with you. Yeah, it was great to have you on finally.

But you keep up the great work. My only plug here is for everyone to join the PDOCs Discord server. The invite link is in the show notes. We got really good chats in there on a daily basis, watching the games. And we take mailbag questions there for every Friday. So get in there if you aren't already.

And that's going to be here for today. We'll be back tomorrow with plenty more of the hockey podcast. So thank you, as always, for listening to us here the Sports Night Radio Network.