The Hockey PDOcast - Bonus Episode - Breaking down Dmitry Orlov to the Bruins

Episode Date: February 26, 2023

Matt Porter from The Boston Globe joins Dimitri to break down this week's trade between Washington and Boston, how it came together so quickly, and the impact Dmitry Orlov can have on the Bruins. This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitra Filippovich, and joining me is my buddy, Matt Porter. Matt, what's going on, man? How much, Dimitri? It's freezing year north of Boston. Yeah.

You know, single digit temperatures for our night. And, you know, we got a rare tonight, a rare West Coast game on East Coast time. So I'm loving it. 7 p.m. start. You got a limit. Yeah, well, people here in Vancouver generally hate that so much, but it's considering the circumstances of this season and the fact that I think most Knochson at this point are cheering for the team to lose, I don't think they're really that bothered by it. But here's what we're going to do today. It's a special bonus weekend episode of the PEO cast. That's right. We're recording this on a Saturday, late morning, my time, early afternoon, your time.

I didn't want to wait until Monday to do this. I wanted to talk about this. I wanted to talk about Demetreau-Love and Garnett Hathaway Trade to the Bruins with you. And I was like, you know what? Instead of waiting, let's just let her rip right now. We'll post it on the podcast feed as a bonus episode for the listeners. They can listen to it whenever they want. These shows this time of year can become outdated very quickly, but I feel like this is probably the big move that Bruins are going to make.

So I'm not too worried about it becoming outdated. So let's just get right into it. Let's let it rip from all sides. I guess this is a good starting point for us. I want to get into a timeline of events of kind of how this. came together because it sure seems like it came together very quickly and on the fly, right? There was no real reports linking the Bruins to Dmitri Orlov. There were no reports linking anyone to Orlov for the most part because it feels like,

at least up until this most recent week, the capitals were going to try to sign him and extend him long term and keep him in Washington. And then they kept losing in pretty miserable fashion. they were struggling to come to terms on especially how long the deal would be with Orlov. And so they decided on Thursday afternoon, all right, we're going to officially put him on the market. We're going to scratch Hammond, Garnett Hathaway for quote-unquote trade-related reasons. And with literally within an hour, both guys were going to Boston. So talk me through from the Bruins perspective.

If you've gathered there any intel behind the scenes on how this came together, how they pivoted on the fly, whether this was in the works for longer than we knew, all that good stuff. Yeah, so I think I certainly wasn't alone in watching Bruins, Capitals games over the years. And I'm talking about management here, thinking this, that you look at Orlov and Hathaway, say, those are perfect Bruins. They are there, they have the, the edge that we want to play with in Boston, that kind of thing. Hathaway has he is the most annoying game you know to play against that that just he's always in your face he's always making faces at you after the whistle he's always getting some some piece of his body or equipment into you wherever he is on the ice and then Orloff is a two-way guy

open ice hitter like this these guys are going to be loved here in Boston and so management was looking at them for for years to my knowledge. college. And, you know, and it's not to say they're the only guys, obviously. You know, there's a, there's a huge list of guys that they like, you know, Zaka being one of them, he was somebody that they scouted for years. But Washington, I mean, it was just two weeks ago today as we talk that they came into TD Garden, they handed the Bruins of Regulation L, 2 to 1, Hathaway scores the winning goal, Orloff has an assist. Hathaway has that great celebration where Cliff, he scores on a wrist shot from hiding the slot, and Carter Clifton knocks him down, and then he's on his back,

twirling his finger up at the stuff at the rafters. They're really fun stuff. But I don't think anybody was looking at them saying then that they're available because Washington is very much in the race. They're in a playoff spot at that time. And, you know, what happens over the last two weeks up until Thursday? Well, they start losing. They lose to the sharks.

They lose to the hurricanes. Okay, fine. You know, they lose to the Panthers who are struggling and you really can't, you know, put one foot in front of the other right now. You know, they get ripped up in the, the in the stadium series game in Carolina, used to Detroit. You lose to the ducks.

And so now it's like, okay, Alex Ovechkin is dealing with his personal stuff with his father. His father passed away. So just everything is in a tailspin. And I think, you know, that's whether it's when they lost to the wings or when they lost to the ducks. I mean, you know,

probably when they lost to the wings because Thursday night they didn't have those guys. So excuse me for that. You know, it just makes it worse, right? just kind of speaking about where the capitals are at this point in the season. But you lose, you lose those games and you're just, I guess that's when you start looking and saying, all right, well, we're not going anywhere this year. It's, it's happened.

And I give him credit. I mean, they're not sitting here saying, yeah, but, you know, a ventrican's going to come back and he's going to be upset because, you know, we're starting, you know, we're selling off pieces. You know, there's not this, they're not beholden, or at least they're showing right now, that they're not beholden to, you know, we have to try to make a, right at this and be respectable, respectable quote, unquote. They're saying, you know, let's get rid of these guys. Let's try to get something for them. Both UFA is coming up. So it did come

together quickly. The Bruins were looking at other options. I think the Chikeren thing, you know, they would love to have Jacob Chikarin on this team. Arizona wasn't moving off the price. So they're looking elsewhere. But you should look at there's no. I was pitching you on some pretty banger three team trades involving getting chikering to the Bruins. And I think it were maybe a bit too creative for the NHL's purposes, but they were certainly there. My DMs are the HF board slash Reddit thread that will never be, that will never seem the light of day. It would absolutely do fire on those websites. Hey, all of my trades were actually cap compliant, okay? A lot of the HF board's trades are,

and I mean, for a variety of reasons, they wouldn't happen, but mostly because they actually legally could not happen in the NHL, mine at least past the math test. I'm not going to crack open the DMs right now, but I will say you argued very passionately for them and I think more players were involved than you'd be, than you would sink here. I give you a lot of credit for your dreams. Here's what I'm with you on the whole sort of synopsis of the rundown of from the Capp's perspective and the Bruins also being interested in Orlov as a player for a while.

You know, I think the surprising part for me and it speaks to how quickly this all sort of came together and developed is I always viewed Orlob as like a part of the core. Like for the past year or so, I've been highly interested in other potential spots for him where I'm like, oh, he would look good here. But unfortunately, I was like, well, even though he's an upcoming UFA, I just, it's tough to envision him playing elsewhere. It feels like he's just going to be a capital for life. They're going to sign him. They're going to kind of do this with this core for another couple years. And then after that, they're going to move on.

And so they clearly decided to go a different route because of how the past couple weeks have gone for them. And we'll save the cap stuff for later in terms of like the strategy and all that because I think there's some interesting components there as well. But what we're toying around here is you did some reporting on the Bruin's sort of connection of Vladislav Gavakov previously. And it seemed like he was like the most logical target for them because it seemed like Chikrin was like a bit too ambitious or the price was too high and they weren't going to be willing to facilitate everything that would need to happen to make that work. So Gavrokov was linked to them. and you had a report that sort of or cold water, I guess, refuted some of the other reporting we'd seen in terms of how close that deal was.

And now that the Bruins went ahead and chose Orlov instead, smartly so, by the way, significantly better player. The Blue Jackets are pretty pissed on their end. Yeah, and that's what I'm hearing, but from my end, I've never heard anything that they had a deal in place like that the Bruins signed off on this pending moving pieces, as was as I had seen reported by

people that are reputable. And whether that speaks to a breakdown like Jerome McGillow in 2013, that situation where one side believes something, you know, whether there's a bait and switch or whether it's just a misunderstanding or whether it's one side hearing something that they want to hear and the other side, you know, hearing what they want to hear. I don't know, I don't know. That's going to come out in probably in months and years to come. But what I was hearing throughout is that they didn't have a deal in place for Gavikov. They certainly weren't going to pay a first round pick for Vladislav Gavikov. That he wasn't that kind of player in their eyes. And I don't know. What I really want to know is when did they find out Columbus's

plans to flip that first round pick for Jacob Chikrin. I'd like to know when exactly they learned of that because you could read it as we're not letting them do that. Or you could read, or you could it as, hey, they just, you know, that's not their concern. They don't really care. So it's kind of funny. You don't know how much spite exactly is in NHL front offices and pettiness. I would suspect, Matt, that that's not really a big part of it. I think their interest was probably overblown. I'm sure they had many conversations. And it's understandable. The connection, it seems like a lot of the reporting is coming from Bluejacket sources here. Right. It was. And it's understandable why.

they would be looking to push the agenda of, oh, we've got a team very interested in Gabrikob and they're going to pay a first and a third and whatever. It's like, yeah, because it worked for David Savard. Yeah, because it worked for David Savard and his trade value. So let's try this again. I mean, it's, it's, you know, friendly reporters, get in tight with front offices and that's what they're hearing. So it's what they're reporting. I mean, it kind of, it takes this, it takes a village aspect to the NHL trade deadline where you have different reporters in different markets that, you know, have been tight with front offices for years, have sources, know what they can and can't say on and off the record. And you kind of just

cobble it together and figure out what makes the most sense. I'm just not, I'm not buying the line of thinking that the Bruins kind of pull the fast one in Columbus here. It just, just based on what I know of their interest in Gavrakoff, Eve, you know, was a guy that they could have made use for, certainly, or use of, but they weren't going to pay that price. And, you know, if it helps juice the, the trade value for Gavakov in some way, then I guess everybody wins, but Bruins didn't want to get involved there. No, I don't think it did. I would find it hard to believe that someone's going to meet that reported asking price at this point.

But, I mean, plus as well, plus as well, how it, let's say that that is Columbus's plan, not to get on a bluejackets tangent here, but if that is their plan, how they're going to play Zach Rowensky and Jacob Chikeren next year together. Does that make sense? I don't know. I don't know what their idea, beyond just getting a good player at a good price. You know, what would their plan be? But that's just from my standpoint.

Yeah, I mean, good young player who was, what, turning 25 at a cost-controlled price for at least two more seasons. I think they're pretty embarrassed with how this year has gone for them after making the big splash on good role. And so I understand why they'd be interested in that. I'm like you, I'm very fascinated in the time on events and how it all came together. I don't think it ultimately matters that much. Like, I understand if the Blue Jackets felt like they had a deal in place,

why they'd be annoyed. But at the same time, we're in the business of winning hockey games and assembling the best team possible. And so if the Bruins are like, well, a much better option just game available, and we still haven't committed to anything, then that's kind of the business, right? And that unfortunate timing for the Blue Jackets, but that's kind of how it came together. Let's get into the Bruins perspective here from this trade,

because right now they're on pace for 134 points. Now, what's interesting is the hurricanes are sneakily within seven points of them at the moment. They've played the same number of games. They have one more meeting in Carolina, I believe, in March. And, you know, it's looking way ahead. The Eastern Conference Final is a long time from now. There's a lot of tough games that be played for both teams between now and then, certainly, especially in round two.

But I would think if I were the Bruins, there would be added motivation to win as many regular season games the rest of the way as you can to ensure that you have the president's trophy so that you have home ice advantage in a potential Eastern Conference final because we both saw how last year's series played out between these two teams and the importance of home ice just because of how having last change allowed them essentially to dictate defensive matchups, i.e., who Jordan Stahl was basically able to play against, right? And I think the Bruins are certainly more well positioned to combat that this year, right? Like they're not as nearly as top heavy. They've split up their top two lines. They have much better personnel. And I think they'll be able to not just be completely shut out on the road if Jordan Stall is going up against their best players. But it's really important in that matchup where every single little edge matters. And so we're all viewing this through the lens of like, all right, well, this helps the Bruins come to playoffs and the goal is to win a Stanley Cup.

But I still think there's like a bit of runway here in the final. know, 25 games or whatever that are actually meaningful for them, despite how many points they've already bank. I agree. And they're good enough to win games as they figure out where these players fit. And, you know, we don't need to drill down on who exactly they're playing, but there are some games there where you're thinking, okay, well, we can just kind of throw any combination out there

and we're going to be in this game competitively. I really think that they're looking at Carolina. They have to be looking at Carolina. Knowing the Carolina is probably going to make another move as their chief competition in the East right now. I don't think they're booking themselves for the Eastern Conference Finals right off the bat given they have to play Tapper, Toronto in round two.

Right. Definitely, you look at just how disruptive Carolina is. Like, that in itself is something that I was thinking about when I was watching Orlov as well, as I know we're going to get into what Orlov rings and how it fits and all that stuff. But just you look at how a team like Carolina with their speed and their aggression

just disrupts everything that you want to try to do. Fitting Orlov into the Bruins system so he can play against teams like that is going to be, I think, the number one job of Jim Montgomery down the stretch here. Who does he play well with? Who does he communicate well with? Can he get on the page of the Bruins

and how they want to play in the D-Zone, handing off responsibility rather than playing man-to-man? I mean, it's kind of hard to diagnose Washington in recent weeks. and how they want to play, but they are generally a little more man to man than the Bruins. You know, Orloff, kind of a do-it-all guy that wants to, he can kind of assess the situation,

be where he needs to be. Can he do that in the Bruins system against a team that's coming right at you like Carolina? They have to figure that out right now. Yeah, well, I mean, it's a unique circumstance where the Bruins have a plus 94 goal differential. No one else that Hurricanes are second best at plus 47, just to should kind of illustrate the gap.

By the way. I know. It's comical. It's absurd. They're second in scoring. Only the Oilers are scoring slightly more because of historically great power play. But the gap between the Bruins and the Hurricanes where second Stinges defensively is also comically large.

And so you look at that and it's like it's pretty tough to find a statistical weakness for this team. And when you say it like that, it's like, all right, well, how can you realistically improve? And typically when we see teams playing this well, not that it's very rare that a team's playing to this caliber throughout a regular season, especially through 60 games. so, but generally we see the top teams sort of more so tinker on the margins, right? Like you're adding kind of depth, you're looking ahead to the playoffs and being like, all right, let's, let's add some secondary scoring or let's add another body on the blue line

just in case injuries happen. You rarely see them go out and make a significant ad in, in Demetri Orlov like this. And for my money, like one of my favorite players in the league to watch and has been for years, I just think he's one hell of a hockey player, right? Like, the reason why I think he hasn't gotten the attention or love nationally he deserves is just because he doesn't play on the top unit power play in Washington, right? John Carlson, man's that role. They use their top unit probably more so than like nearly any other team in the league.

And he just soaks up all those points. And so you look, and Orlov's career high is 35 points that I believe he had last year. And as smart as we've gotten in terms of evaluating players and recognizing what matters and what doesn't, we still generally revert back to like, how many points this guy have? And that's a sign of how good they are. And there's so many different ways, especially for a defender to impact games. And for my money, Orlov checks every single one of those boxes both on and off the pocket. And so I think this is a good opportunity here now for us to just really jump into his game,

specifically what he does and how he's going to help this Bruins team, because I'm really fascinated about that element of the stream. Absolutely. And for me, too, watching this team and watching, you know, them so closely, where does he fit? Who does he play with? And how are they going to use who comes out of the lineup? This is fascinating for me too, a lesser conversation.

But for Orloff, it's funny to me that he's almost gotten a rep around the league of being like this open ice beast, you know, throw a big hit kind of thing. Because like you mentioned, he's good at a lot of different things. And that's kind of, I guess, the one thing that stands out and highlights is that he'll, you know, he'll step up on a guy and, you know, just destroy him in open ice. He's done that a few times against the Bruins. Got himself on the wrong side of things with the like two years ago in the playoffs. Basically ended Kevin Miller's career with a high hit, you know, to the chin game of concussion.

Miller, you know, was on the way out anyway, had deep problems and all that. But that's the rep that he's gained, whereas there's so much more to his game than just that. You know, he's two-way left side, right side, all three zones, you know, can play, can play your power play. He can do a credible job up there as a facilitator sometimes stepping into open looks and things. But for this team, he's going to be a penalty killer. He's basically going to take his ability to kill penalties, block shots, be stout, be hard.

He's going to take a Hampus Lindholm off the PK entirely probably, which is fantastic for the Bruins because Linholm is a guy that wants to play 25 minutes, can play 25 minutes. But if you're optimizing Lindholm at 22 minutes, oh boy, you know, that's going to be big. I don't know who he's going to play with. But as far as his chemistry with this team, I don't know, like he plays with, he plays with checking lines. He gets them the puck in good situations.

He can run with the Ovechkins and Baxterums. I don't know exactly the peak of his powers, really, which is, you know, like I don't know exactly, you know, he does have a good shot, but he's not a goal score. He can pass, but he's not exactly a setup guy from the back end. I just think he's one of those just pieces that just kind of like a rising tide kind of thing. You know, slots in somewhere in the middle. Let me give you a couple stats before I give you my tape impressions on him. So the last time he didn't lead the capitals in 5-on-5 usage, you have to go back to 2015-16, which is his first full NHL season where he didn't play any HL games.

And I think that might surprise some people, right? I think he's legitimately a top-bearing defenseman. They've used him as such, despite his raw minutes or point totals. Like, they've relied on him to that capacity. He's been so consistent for them. Evolving hockey had this interesting stat where over the past three seasons, these are the top 10 defensemen in expected goals above replacement. Kill McCar, number one, Adam Fox number two,

Jared Spurgeon number three, Devon Taves, number four, Charlie McAvoy, number five, Roman Yosey, number six, Chris Tann of number seven, Dimitri Orlob, number eight, and then number nine is Eric Carlson, 10, Echblatt. That passes the smell of history. Those are 10 pretty good defensemen in today's NHL, and that's over the past three years.

And I think the fit here is perfect, because I'm not sure I would have said as such last year under Bruce Cassidy, but I actually think some of the wrinkles that they've incorporated under Jim Montgomery this year tie in perfectly to the way Oralov wants to play, specifically offensively. I think defensively, it would have been as much of a fit last year because it's interesting.

You mentioned the open ice hits. I think he doesn't. World Off's 31 now. I think he's turning 32 this summer. I don't think he goes with them with as much frequency or reckless abandon as he might have when he was a bit younger. He sort of picks his spots a bit more. But when you still watch him play, he's so aggressive in the neutral zone as a defender. Like he steps up.

He uses his stick. He tries to get kind of gap up on you. And you're not going to get clean zone entries against him. And that's a hallmark that. ruins defense, right? Like no team has better connectivity between their forwards and defensemen. No team maintains those better gaps. They force you. The reason why they always have such good possession metrics is partly because they force you to get rid of the puck, dump it in, and then they go back and retrieve it. And especially when they have Bergeron out there,

part of the wizardry of it, is he comes back down solo. The defenseman's able to get it to them and they're quickly out of the zone. And so you're not actually spending any time, defending in your own end when those top players are out there. And Orlov is going to give them another player that can help facilitate that process defensively. Yeah, he's quick enough, you know, when they want to go on the attack from the D zone, he's, like you said, he is very good at denying entries or making it difficult, but he's good enough to be the guy that handles the puck in the corner and gets it to the weak side defenseman for a breakout or up the wall for the wing

or wherever Bergeron is kind of floating back. Or he can just be the guy that's in front of the net. You know, and he can kickstart with a good pass or he can get his feet moving. It's the do-it-all nature of his game that's really impressive and will help this team. But it's the obvious question for me is, is he knock Matt Grizzlick out of the lineup? Because when you're talking about 5-1-5 usage, Grizzlick is a guy who basically right now plays exclusively 5-on-5 minutes. And, you know, so they can carry a guy like that in their lineup, especially if he's as productive as Grizzlick is. But I don't know, is it as easy?

you would think for a team chasing a championship, it would be easy to think, okay, I can just take a backseat, you know, because I know I have the carrot in front of me that I'm going to get my number called at some point if I'm back Grislyck.

But I don't know. Does that actually work in practice? There is no chance. If they're removing Grisleck out of the lineup, that's a big mistake in my opinion. Well, yeah. I here's, okay,

so I assume out of the gate, they're going to play him, they'll play Orlov with Macc with Maccaboy, right? I assume at least at least the test to test drive it. And he's kind of like the shiny new toy, similar to what we saw with O'Reilly goes to the Leafs. And it's like, all right, you get to play with John Tavares and Mitch Marner here, have some fun, as opposed to like being like in the playoffs,

you're going to be our third line center. So just go there immediately. Like they're having some fun with it out of the gate. I think that's what they'll do here in which case. Yeah, they did it with at the end of Chara's career. They put him with Mac of Wood to Carrie Chara. When they were trying to break in new guys on the left side, like a Yakubo Sabora or Oval.

And I didn't they go with McAvoy, et cetera, and so on. That's what they'll do. That pairing will have 100% possession shares. They will not give the other team the puck. But if you do that, here's a trickle down for me. So you go Hampuslit Holman Connor Clifton. Now, we saw that that duo double as the team's top pair at the start of the year, right? Like when McAvoy was out, they relied on them to that degree.

They played 250 minutes together this season. The Bruins are up 17 to 4 at 5-1-5-1 with the year. them and they have a 63% expected goal share. That's a, that's a combination that I would actually feel pretty comfortable leaning on. And then you go Carlo Grizzlic and you have to have Grizzlic on the ice with Carlo because you need someone to insulate him on the breakout. Like you need a slick puck mover beside him. You cannot have another guy who treats the puck like a grenade, especially on the breakout. Like, it's just not going to work. Like, I like his reach. I like his ability to defend in transition Carlos, right? Like he uses his size very well in that regard.

I understand the appeal, but you need someone alongside him that can once you actually go back to retrieve the puck, make a pass out of the zone. And Matt Grislich is phenomenal at that. And so I like that combination. We've seen them play together a lot, right? Like they've played 900, 5005 on five minutes of past three years and they've fared very well because they have very complementary skill sets in that regard. They sort of both physically make up for each other's shortcomings, but also like stylistically. So I like that. I guess my question for you, though, based off of that is at some point, do we see Jim Montgomery do something that he's been kind of reluctant to this year, which is just play Lynn Holm and McAvoy together at 515? That's something that

Bruce Cassidy did pretty much all the time last year down the stretch, right? Like, I think they played like 80% of Lynn Holmes minutes last year after he got traded to the Bruins together. This year, It's been significantly less. I think it's only 25% or so. And they just have felt like it's unnecessary. It's kind of overkill. It's better to spread those guys out because there's such beasts. But in this case, I think Orlov's versatility in terms of he's a great rush defender, but he's also a fantastic puck mover. All of a sudden, you can play him. You can play him with Carlo if you want. You can play him with, like, Clifton. You can bounce him around the lineup any way you want. And that kind of opens the door, I think, for a potential McAvoy-Home pairing, especially in high leverage moments against other team's best player. that is a really interesting luxury that I think they didn't really have before this trade.

Well, I think you might see Jim Montgomery up leashed in this way. And, you know, assistant coach John Gruden has a hand of this as well, the defensive assistant. They wanted the whole season to get everybody comfortable with everybody else. So they could go situationally in a way that we really haven't seen the Bruins do in the past. Like, they want to be able to let Olman McAvoy out at the end of games with Posternak, Marsha, Marcia, and Bergeron. Like that's you know they want to have those five main units They want to be able to throw you know Carlo And Derek Forbert maybe now it's

You know maybe now it's Orloff you know Kind of match up their Their deep pairs that way Kind of have like super pairs that do things like Grizzlic and McAvoy when you want 5 on 5 on 5 fuck etc and so on I don't think it's a reluctant On Montgomery's part to do that

I just think like you said it's more the overkill part Like he just hasn't really had to because they keep rolling along. But maybe we do see that in the playoffs. And maybe Orlov carries the second pair. And that's how they roll. The forbert question is interesting for me. And I know it's almost like the Gavnikov conversation, right?

Like why are we devoting so much airtime to a guy with Vladislav Gavikov skill set? I'm really interested to see how much old school thinking there is on this staff. And whether I don't think it's going to come from above Jim Montgomery's head here. but we know Cam Neely has a certain way that he likes the Brues to play we know that Don Sweeney also is of that kind of same thinking even though Sweeney's a little bit more progressive

and wanting to undersized puck moving defensemen like a Clifton like a Matt Grislich Torrey Kroo back in the day you know Derek Forbert still has a lot of respect in that organization for what he does and is he going to be your seven kind of come in in game three in the series when guys are worn out

that's probably a good role for him but boy there's a lot of respect built up for that guy I'm kind of wondering you know is he automatically come out of the lineup probably but you know how is that conversation going to go and how is that going to look is kind of something that's interesting to me well yeah I mean he's clearly their seventh best defenseman right now so but I yeah I get what you're saying it'll be interesting it'll be it will be a bit of a litmus test for uh for this coaching staffs um adaptability I guess for a lack of a better phrase. I was hinting at this before about the changes they've made under Montgomery, right, in terms of their system.

Orlov is a fantastic puck mover as well, and that's a key part of this. I mentioned that in terms of how that allows you to potentially play in with a guy like Carlo if you want to load up that top pairing. Last postseason when I tracked all the games, only Muriel Heikin and Kail Makar were more efficient at exiting their own zone with the puck. And part of that was because Orlov is so aggressive as an actual puck carrier himself, right? He can certainly make a pass out of the zone. But by nature, he loves to just get it and just go.

And he leads the rush. He gets involved in that way. And I know especially at the start of the year, there was a lot of talk about how, you know, the Bruins were, like a guy like Lynn Holm, for example, was really thriving because all of a sudden Jim Montgomery comes in and he's like, yeah, I want you guys to get more involved. I want you to make plays up the ice. I want you to get it and go and not necessarily be so beholden to like the rigidity

or structure of your role where you get the puck you pass it, you stay back. Like you can, we have enough support from our forwards and we have enough smart, good players that everyone can just play a more free flowing brand of hockey. And so I wonder if Orlov is the perfect fit in that regard as well, because if they're going to let them play that way, they can really unleash him as a guy who just transports the puck that way. And that would obviously be a much better fit this year than maybe last year with the way they played under Bruce Cassidy. Yeah, it's almost like how much of that do you have? Like, we'll take all of it, you know, if you're Montgomery. Like the forwards at this point in the season know to fill in the gaps. The partners, you know, know that if, like, Clifton's a great, he's a great example of this because his game, like, he just wants to just go.

I mean, he had these wild, like, they, he was described to me like when he was coming up as like a wild horse. Like, he just, he just goes. Quick, can I do a quick, quick Connor Clifton story, by the way? You know what? Let's take a break here. Yeah. Just really quick. And then when we come back, we'll do that.

And we'll kind of close the loop on this conversation, right? Sounds great. Okay, let's do it. Discussing the biggest stories that matter to Vancouver sports fans. Halford and Brough in the morning. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Matt. Sorry for cutting you off there before we went to break.

I'll allow you here to give. Listen, I always have space. I always save space on this P.D.O. cast for Connor Clifton stories because I maintain the no show that doesn't cover the Bruins on. a full-time basis has spent nearly the amount of time talking about Connor Clifton that we have here. And I think deservedly so. I think I've been vindicated. I've been proven quite right this year because they've given him a larger role and he's thrived and he's shown everything that I've talked about for years, which is despite his frame and despite his size, he's an absolute menace

who punishes you. And I just, I think like this is where you need to do. Next time you see Conner Clifton, you need to give him my business card. Tell him to how. hire me as his agent because he's got a big contract decision coming up here this summer. And I don't think there's anyone more fit to represent him than myself. It's, you know, he's really everything you want in a moderate defenseman. Like he loves, like you said, he loves to hit you, to reverse hit you. He doesn't mind to be hit. He's just fun to watch from a physical standpoint, especially being 511, 180 or whatever he is.

I think it might be 190 now. But and also he loves to go. Like he loves to take the puck up the ice and wheel the net and look for something, you know, or just kind of get open for for a one time or like he's so much fun to watch. So the story is his NHL debut came in Dallas in 2018, November, whatever, 2018. And I had a perfect view. I was right on the, right on the blue line with the Bruins, you know, in the Bruins song from the press box in Dallas. His first shift gets on, you know, gets on the ice.

He's kind of like he's everywhere. You can tell. He's just way over skating everything. And he was kind of a gong show. And finally he sees the opportunity to change. And he was on the far side of the ice for the Bruins bench. And he just peels off to the bench, almost like somebody had been like, like the reaction that he had, the way he turned his head in his body was almost as if somebody said, Connor, like screamed at him. he full sprint to the bench grabs as he's coming in there's no stop he grabs maybe slow down a little bit

drag his rear skate a little bit to you know stop his momentum a little bit both gloves on the bench does a full press turns over over the dasher and lands in his seat all in one motion i've never seen anybody change off that way especially not in their first nchl shift it's fantastic i loved that I'm like, I'm going to enjoy watching this guy for as long as he's here. Max effort all the time. Love to see it. He's fantastic. And his contract is going to be fascinating, by the way.

We will talk about this later in the season, I'm sure, but at $1 million right now, oh boy, cannot wait to see where this lands. Well, I couldn't believe that the Cracken chose to take Jeremy Lowe's on over him. Can't believe the way people talk about him. I'm unprepared to be hurt by his extension as well because he probably will not get compensated fairly for how good of a player he is, but the show must go on. So we haven't really talked that much about Gardner Hathaway here. I just, like, I'm just so infatuated by Orlov as a player and the fit here and the potential

combinations that his presence allows them to experiment with that I wanted to kind of center the discussion about that. I don't know if you have any, any Hathaway points. Like I think beyond all of the, you know, typical playoff tropes about being tough to play against and Star-Rle and all that stuff. Like, he's proven that when he's on the ice, he's very efficient at his role. He has legitimately good underlying numbers, particularly in terms of defensive impact. And he's just a highly useful player who will chip in with the occasional goal as well.

But, like, for a, you know, fourth-liner that I assume they're going to use him as, like, it's great. There's nothing. I don't, the analysis beyond that isn't particularly that interesting to me, but I didn't want to, you know, do this trade conversation. And then not mentioned him, his inclusion in this as well. because he's clearly part of it. But I don't know. Do you have anything else on that? Yeah, less about the player and more about the fit.

I mean, for what he does, like you said, he's great at it. He sees an excellent fourth liner, penalty killer, agitator, annoying guy, has size, can skate, is responsible, has been an irritant to the Bruins and playoff series in the past. He'll be an irritant to whoever they play against. He's an upgrade on AJ Greer, who has done pretty well for himself in his role. you know but the Bruins I don't know how much handedness I'm way more concerned about handedness on a deep air than I am on a forward line

I just it just doesn't really so having him as a right shot replacement on the right side for Craig Smith probably works just didn't really work this year for Smith I'd love to know he would never tell us what he was playing through but he was obvious and he was playing through something like on breakup day last year you know we kind of asked him a couple different ways

subtly and also directly, you know, are you going to have surgery or kind of what was going on this year? He just stoned all this on that, didn't want to talk about it. So I don't know what's going on, but he also didn't really fit in Montgomery's system. He's a guy that really just wants to rip shots off the wing and that's just not the way that they want to play. They want possession. They want high danger chances and there's not a volume shooter in that group now. Well, Posternak, of course, but he can volume shoot all he wants. So it's a It's just he's a great addition

Frederick Felino Hathaway if he plays up a little bit Down in the lineup You know you have your Thomas Nosec being smart responsible Above the puck And then Hathaway Below the circles

And it's just they have a great mix For the style that they want to play in the bottom six And really you know like we've said Playoff tropes being what they are Any any bottom six would welcome a guy like that In the playoffs Yeah Yeah

You know, I do wonder if the Capitol circle back door a lot of the summer and revisit bringing him back on a long-term deal. I know that a sticking point was term, and I get it because I actually, I'm wary of how he's going to age based on how chaotically he plays and how going full blast and just throwing his body around and just brushing up the ice and everything we've talked about so far isn't something that particularly lends itself to aging gracefully when you're 34, 35 years old, which he will be in a couple years. So I get that reservation. I just think, you know, it's pretty clear based on everything we've heard. I like the strategy here from the capitals in

this trade because they realize they're like, all right, we have like whatever, a 15% chance of making the playoffs this year. But realistically, we're fighting with five other teams who have a better point percentage than us for two wildcard spots. It's like, what are we really trying to not accomplished here. So I get that it's, it's kind of, you know, it's sad to be punting one on O'Evetchkin season when you don't know how many more of these you're going to have left. But I think they're clearly similar to the reporting we've heard from about what the Blue's intent to do, which is they trade O'Reilly, they trade their ankle, they get a bunch of draft capital back, and they're going to try to flip that into players that can help them build around Thomas and

Kairu and those guys. I think the capitals are going to, this summer, explore and investing all of that, all this draft capital they got here, which was a first, the second, and a third in the future, into players that can help them. And you look at the blue line, other than John Carlson, they literally don't have anyone under contract right now. Like, they're going to sign Barn Farivari as an RFA. But beyond that, there's a lot of money to go around, a lot of roster spots to go around.

And so I think they're going to have a lot of flexibility and ammo to get creative this summer. So I did want to bring that up from this element. I was ultimately, I have to admit, underwhelmed by the return. maybe I am on the high end of my Orlob evaluations, right? Like I view him as such a needle mover that I'm like, man, I can't believe that other teams weren't willing to pay more than this. But ultimately, I guess this is the best they could have gotten. Like, I'm not sure how much they actually shopped him around and whether the rest of the

league agrees with my take on what type of player he is. But I just find it hard to believe that considering they took back Smith's deal, which it was, you know, a point of contention for the Bruins. Like, they desperately needed to do that in some trade. They retained money on Orlov, and all they got back was what they got. I understand it with rentals. Sometimes you don't get what we think you're going to get. But I feel like they could have or should have gotten more in this type of trade.

Yeah. I mean, Orlov has a five-team no trade list. So maybe that played into it. I don't know. Given how quickly things came together, maybe it did, Maybe it didn't. I give the capitals and blues, for that matter, a lot of credit. I mean, this is a market inefficiency. You just basically, if you know you can resign these guys anyway, why not just try to get where you can for them? If you know, you're not going to make the playoffs, it would be really interesting to see how many GM's heads explode around the league. If the league, Orlov, maybe have to weigh. Probably not. But definitely warloffs. If the blues get, it's fine, Rudy Llanco and O'Reilly back. You know, what's that going to do? Is that going to kill this? Is that going to kill this? Is that going to kill? Is that going to kill this market for rentals, for teams that are just gave it a good go and are just kind of out of it, just want to get something back.

You know, is that going to depress that market? I don't know. Well, considering how many times Teresenko asked that of St. Louis, I don't, I don't see him coming back. But it has been reported that O'Reilly is at least a consideration for them this summer. Yeah, no, I mean, you're right. I think that's a good point, I guess. And I'm curious whether they ever broach this topic in these trade conversations, because

like I said, it seemed to happen so quickly, right? There was like an hour between Orlau being ruled out and him being a member of the Bruins. And maybe the conversations go before that. But if I were the capitals here, I would have pushed really hard to get Boston's like 2025 first or 2026 first. It's something we don't see that often in NHL treaties. It's much more an NBA thing where you just like, you realize that, all right, a really good team's first round pick. summer is not that valuable to us. But in a couple years, especially if they have an aging core the way that the Bruins do, two, three years from now, if Patrice Berseran isn't on this team,

maybe they're not nearly as good anymore. And all of a sudden, that first becomes a legitimate premium asset. In this case, it's like a pick that's likely to be in the late 20s, early 30s, even in a loaded draft is not a premium asset to me. I know that a first round pick is a first round pick, but it's just not, you cannot equate it to what you'd get in the top. top 10 or top 15 or whatever, right? And so I just, for a player of Orlov's caliber, considering how much, you know, they did financially to facilitate this deal

and taking Smith's contract back and retaining 50% of Warloves contract, I would have thought they'd be able to push for a more premium asset than that. And so I wonder if they asked for that 20, 25, and the Bruins were just like, well, we can't do that because we're too scared of what this team's going to look like then. But that's purely speculation on my part.

That's a fascinating idea because I do wonder, have we even seen that? Have we seen a team trade that has its upcoming first round pick trade, a first rounder in the next couple of years? I can't remember it, but, I mean, there's been so many trades over the past however many years. That is kind of fascinating, though. No, I think is this, the question, I guess, is this fair value for Orloff? And, you know, I think if you're looking at it from the perspective of a essentially a borderline first second rounder and a second round pick for Erloff, because like let's say

Hathaway is the the fifth or whatever separating the different pieces of this trade to try to figure out what exactly Dmitri Orloff is worth if you give the whole package

for Dmitri O'Oloff I might take that trade I think he's that good of a player Yeah so it's hard it's hard for me to see and you know I don't have a pair of black and gold color glasses here

so I'm not worried about that but it's like it really is hard for me to see this as anything other than a a home run for the bruns. Yeah. It's far as it. It's definitely better at a very manageable price. Like I, like I said, I, they're 2025 or 2026 first is a significantly more valuable

asset in my opinion moving forward than whatever pick they wind up having in the first round this year, even though there's more like immediacy at play and it's easier to sell that to your fans. And there's like, oh, we got an extra first this year as opposed to like, wait three years and then see what we get. But, well, that's, you're talking about a year. Posterok will be in the second. year of his

$11 million deal. Yeah. So that's it. That is something that if he wins the cons smite, by the way, I just want to say this quickly. If he wins the cons smite this year,

he might be a $13 million player. Might happen. Yeah. Well, we'll see about that. That's a conversation literally for another day because there's a lot of time

between now and then. All right, let's, yeah, no, listen, I, like I said,

I like, I like this trade from the caps, just purely from a strategic perspective, I just wish they would have pushed for something a bit more, with more upside, I guess, is the best way to put it. All right. Let's get out of here.

I'll let you let the listeners know where they can check you out, what you've got in the books or in the works because you're not with the team. Unfortunately, here in Vancouver, you're in their Western Canada road trip. So let us know what you're cooking up over there. Yeah, working on some features here that we'll be rolling out over the next few weeks. my guy Kevin Paul DuPont is in Vancouver around that trip so follow his work if you want up-to-date Bruins coverage

but always working on my Sunday column at the Boston Globe Sunday Hockey Notes 2,500 words of goodness usually some interviews with some interesting people and conversations about the game you can follow me on Twitter at Maddie Ports M-A-T-T-Y-P-O-R-T-S some people think it's Maddie Sports but it's not it's Maddie Ports

and yeah if you get a chance check out my work at the Boston Boston Globe and I'll be around. All right, man. Well, thanks for taking the time on this Saturday. We'll certainly have you back on the road. We'll be back on this feed on Monday with more trade deadline content as we barrel towards Friday's finale. So looking forward to that.

Thank you to everyone for listening. Hopefully you enjoy this bonus episode. And we'll be back soon. So thank you for listening to the Hockeypedo guest streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Thank you.