The Hockey PDOcast - Breaking Down the Big Moves, Themes, and Takeaways From This Year’s Trade Deadline

Episode Date: March 8, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by John Matisz and Sean Shapiro to break down the biggest moves, themes, and takeaways from this year's trade deadline. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PDOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitra Filipovich and joining me for our two-part post-trade deadline recap. He's my good buddy, Sean Shapiro. Sean, what's going on in? I am not rested, but I have had lots of caffeine. I was awoken at 5am by my dog this morning and since I checked my phone, I've been working on Nemeco ranting in news since 5 in the morning. So I am ready to be here. It's very exciting. Well, if last year's trade deadline recap show is any indication, I feel like us being a little bit, a little edgy, a little tired, a little ordinary, is going to lead to some fireworks. So it's going to be a fun one also joining us, and we're getting the band back together.

We've done this three-man pod for some special occasions on that NHL calendar. This is obviously one of them, also joining us, the third member. We've got to figure out some branding, some either a title or catchy sponsor or something for these shows, but is good pal. John Mattis, John, what's going on? Hey, fellas. Yeah, I agree. Maybe the PDO cast Discord can cook something up and up for us. Hopefully.

We've got two hours ahead of us here, and we're going to try to do our best to sort through the fallout from today. We're going to hopefully cover the biggest themes, the biggest takeaways, the most important and actionable developments that we just witnessed whatever we don't get to today because it is only two hours, and there's so much to get through.

We'll circle back to it. I want to do another show on Sunday, so I promise we'll cover as much ground as we can. We're doing this just a couple hours after a very hectic day in the NHL to deliver you the goods in a timely manner tonight. So hopefully people can listen in ASAP because I know that the appetite for some good analysis post deadline is definitely there for our listeners. And so as you guys said, it's been a long couple of days. I'm right there with you, Sean. I woke up at 2 a.m. here Pacific time to go for a quick pee. And then I made the mistake of checking my phone as well. Oh, no. And I saw the free free

and tweeted about ranting in and the momentum there with the stars and it gaining traction. And then I laid back in bed and I was like, all right, well, I'll try to get a couple more hours here because I know it's going to be a big day and I'm going to be in the office all day. And after 10 minutes of just kind of sitting there, laying there with my eyes open, I was like, all right, I'm just going to go into the studio. So I've been here for a while. This is going to be a fun one. Let's start with our biggest stories.

I think the most natural one to start with is certainly the conclusion to the Miko Ranton and Saga over the past week or two or really since kind of around the Four Nations break when questions about whether he'd extend in Carolina, what they'd do, whether they'd repackage him somewhere else initially surfaced. And I've got to say, what a day for Jim Nell.

What a day for player agent Andy Scott, who represents Miko Randinen, Wyatt Johnston, who also got a nice little payday today, and Thomas Harley, who's an RFA next summer and will certainly cash in as well. And what a day for our very own Sean Shapiro, who, who gets some of this great news.

And then all of a sudden kept John and I waiting on the Zoom call for a couple minutes, big time does, because he's got a lot going on. Let's get into all of it. I want to unpack every single element of this. I think this is such a fun story for us to dissect. They get ranting in for Stanko over and futures. They get Wyatt Johnson signed $8.4 million for five years.

Now, my quick note on that is those are age 22 to 27 seasons. I think it's obviously and undoubtedly a huge W. for the stars to get it done ahead of the summer rather than kind of hanging over them because they have a better sense of their books, right? We kind of thought that they might not spend as much because they have that uncertainty, kind of trying to keep their options open

for whatever that number came in. We've heard that there's more threat of offer sheets this summer as well around the league. And so just kind of getting ahead of that, getting him locked up. He's probably a $12 to $13 million market value player right now based on how productive and important he is to the stars. And so getting him at this number is huge for him as well.

And his agent Andy Scott, it walks him to the UFA market in the summer of 2030 when he's going to be 27. So this is him sort of betting on himself as well and really trying to maximize his earning power. So it's great for all parties involved. Sean, what's the most interesting element, wrinkle, dynamic to all of this for you and kind of try to unpack it and start this conversation for us?

well David imagery and I get to give credit to a guy of a stars fan who on blue sky who to sent the post or whatever we call a blue sky is I don't know what the proper terminology for a post on blue sky is anymore or is in the first place but from jason who said he'd like to imagine that basically jim nill and andy scott were sitting in a room and jim says andy here's the amount of money i have for your three clients just tell me just tell me into how you want to spend it. And that's, and I just, I love that imagery. And I want to start right there because that, that to me is the most fascinating element of

this where we know the team element, the hurricanes and stars kind of came together late last night and starts to come together. But Scott, Andy Scott and Jim Nill have effectively been talked for about four or five days now because I know that they started talking Wyatt Johnson extensions earlier in the week. So it's kind of this very fascinating fluid, two-man song and dance that led to, multiple pieces today. That part to me is really one of my biggest takeaways today. John, I did a segment on Thursday show with Harm where I was kind of expressing my own personal skepticism that this was a realistic possibility that the hurricanes would actually go ahead

and trade Miko Randinen before the deadline for a couple reasons. One, I kind of felt like he seemed pretty clear in his intentions that he wanted to test the UFA market, right? That's why he wasn't willing to re-up with Colorado in the first place. That's why he was kind of dragging Carolina along and I felt like at that point it's like all right this guy's already decided that which is well within his right that he wants to be a UFA with the cap going up to get to get kind of you know interested parties involved see where the number gets to just see what's available to him and so that makes a lot of sense for a guy who hasn't experienced that I also didn't think from the hurricane's perspective it made sense to trade him for whatever the return I thought they'd get

for him as a rental if we assume that first part was correct because they were the Stanley Cup favorite by the betting market by Dom's model at the athletic anyway you looked at it they were in a very good position they're looking ahead at this playoff path and I know we're going to talk a lot about the Atlantic teams and how they loaded up themselves but their path is relatively clean where they're going to play either a banged-up New Jersey team in round one without Jack Hughes or a really young and experienced Columbus team, and then they're going to play Washington or a wildcard team in round two. And it's like, all right, the path to at least making it back to Eastern Carniv's final is pretty clear. Miko Ranton, despite his struggles in the 13 games he's played for you,

gives you the best position to accomplish your goal of competing for and winning a Stanley Cup this year. And so you kind of ride it out, and even if he's gone, that's fine. So I kind of just assumed it from that lens. Obviously, I was wrong in those assumptions because we saw this trade happen today. So I think it's really fascinating kind of how this all, I guess, evolved, all the reporting around it, how it all kind of came together for Dallas to swoop in and actually make this a not only a possibility, but a reality in the end. Yeah, I'm of two minds here. If I really zero in on the perspective of the hurricanes, because you look at the two and Brantanine deal. So obviously, when they acquire them and then when they trade them, the piece is going in and out of the door.

So no more Marty Natchez, Jack Jury. a second round or a fourth, and then you're bringing in Logan Stancoven, Taylor Hall, two firsts, and two thirds. Like if you're looking at that and comparing those two piles of assets, I mean, it's solid, it's fine. I don't think there's a huge winner in that

in terms of, you know, what they lost and what they gained. So it's fine. And I do like Taylor Hall and Logan Stancoven's fits, both of their individual fits with Rod Brindamore in his system. So, okay, that's cool. But the issue is,

the decision to trade, rant in and after you acquire him, because could you not have just used him as a quote-unquote own rental and tried to win the cup with him? I mean, he's a top 10 forward in the NHL. The East is up for grabs. The Keynes are in this contention window.

It's not like they're a surprise team and you go, okay, it's not their time. It's like, no, it is their time. You know, Sebastian Ojo is not going to be as young as he is for this long. You know, Slavin's not going to be as elite as he is for, you know, the next 10 years. Like, there's a window here.

So, Rantan, a pending UFA, yes, that's important context, but also holding on to him and seeing where he and his finishing ability take your team, like, I feel like that was worth it for the hurricanes. That was worth, I guess, throwing caution to the win in some sense and just going for it. Because if he leaves in free agency, that'll suck. But also, you can look at it in a different way where it's like, okay, now we can use the cap space and all the draft capital that we've built up over the years to be bold on the trade market again.

Like we can just kind of do another Rantan-like trade, maybe be a little more sure that this other player is going to sign. But nevertheless, you can be bold again because you put yourself in such a great situation as a well-run organization. So it's really tricky because if Rantaninan wasn't a superstar, I would say by all means like if the guy's not going to sign and you feel like you have an opening here to bring those assets back and sort of make everything whole then then do it but it's like given the situation of what rantanin can bring to the canes what what need he addresses and their window here

and the fact that the summer things reset a little bit with the cap space and the draft capital like I don't know is it just me or did the the canes overthink this I think I I'll overfrey a little bit. I was going to say, I really, I mean, there's so many interesting components from the Canes angle. I want to just finish up the star's piece of this real quick before we jump into that. And Sean, I was going to say it seemed like,

without speaking to him, it seemed like from all the reporting that Randinen had expressed a desire or interest to sign with either Dallas or Florida. I imagine that if he had waited until July 1st, not only the Blackhawks would have been rumored, would throw a bunch of money at him, but I think even contenders like Vegas would move everything available to try and make that happen to put themselves in position. I think the Rangers as well would have.

So he certainly would have to market. And I think that's why I get all. And we don't have to rehash the whole conversation about state tax benefits and all that. And what $12 million a year is worth in Dallas compared to on the Kings, for example, or whatever other team you want to name. But still, I think for Jim Nill to get him signed for the eight years at $12 million per like this. that also was a surprising piece to this because I think the whole conversation had been around him wanting to get into that $14 million, Lianne Seidel range, and that was just sort of taken as sort of fact at this point in the saga, and yet they wound up settling at a number of 12 that seems completely reasonable moving forward. Yeah, and it's one of those where I think it's a great question, and it's one of those where I know ran and did something on TSN and he did there, but. I thought Eric Tolski said something interesting where he felt like, I just don't think he felt at home here.

And I think one of my takeaways about Rantnan was there was that whole narrative of that, that top paid player thing. And maybe that's something that came from the agent as negotiating play. But maybe there was just more of the human element of he didn't want to leave Colorado. And when that happened, when the door closed on that, it became, how do I find a place where I feel more. comfortable. And I think with him, that might be, that's one of those questions I'd be fascinated to ask him with a little bit of truth serum, is was it always just the comfort thing? And then when Dallas comes to the table, Dallas presents a couple things that are comfort levels for him. One, it's, of course, the money, 12 million in Texas, yes, it goes a little bit further than 12

million in some other states. That's true. But it presents a spot where he goes to a team where with how long Hayshkinin signed with how long Lendell and hints and everything like that some good friends of his he's going to be able to speak Finnish

the West Coast The West Coast Finish Rufia Exactly He's going to be able to do that For the rest of his career potentially And he gets a

And he's a guy who He has lived And played in Texas before I covered his first year pro when he was in San Antonio So it's someone where it's not like It's not going to be a culture shock He actually liked living in San Antonio

And and he has lived in San Antonio. likes a bit of the lifestyle, he liked the lifestyle of Denver. Dallas is different, but not too different. So I just, I wonder if Randon, where we got all caught up in this, he wants this much money, he wants this much money, I wonder how much of that was actually negotiating tactic and how much it was, I really just want a spot to be comfortable and win. And that just, it's just, but that's not a trendy.

That's not a sexy thing to say to get more money. Yeah, John, and thinking about the fit here and how what he's going to look like on the Star obviously it was a bit of an awkward fit. I think certainly there was an element of just poor luck and poor timing involved, right? Because you watch those games and for however, sort of, I don't want to say miserable, but maybe just kind of like not incredibly happy. He looked at a time.

And I think he's one of those players. I said this even at the time of the trade where even on Colorado, you watch him and things would be going well. And he would just kind of have like bad body language and would look like he's sulking. And that might be who he is. I'm not going to read too much into that. But he has this 13-game cameo where he shoots 5%.

And he's a player who's shot over 16. percent for his career. So that's obviously not representative of what he's going to be. But in thinking about how he's going to look on the stars team, I know the initial inclination and I've seen sort of the forecasting of the depth chart is, oh, well, he's, you know, Rupert Hintz, his countrymate, he's going to play with him. And I actually do think, and I was messaging this with you guys earlier today, and thinking about it, I feel like really the fit that they're going to land on, especially once they get to the postseason when Tyler Sagan hopefully comes back and is able to sort reunite that second line that they had with Marchman Dushan is playing him with Wyatt Johnson

as a center, right? Kind of obviously a very different player than Nathan McKinnon, but a right shot center who still creates a lot off the rush, who commands a lot of attention and creates space as a fantastic playmaker as well. And so if you're thinking about like a spot where Anthony can do what he does best, which is just kind of coast up the ice, get into an open spot, and just drill shot. off the rush, this is almost a match made in heaven, right? It's not necessarily the halves, but it's about as close as you're going to get in that regard where the Stars team leads

the league in rush shots, they're first in the league in slot shots. They've got the playmakers in the handedness to accommodate him. And it really does feel like there might be a bit of an acclamation period, just similar to what he had in Carolina. But I would expect him to start scoring a ton of goals, like pretty soon for the Stars team. Yeah, I really like the idea of Robertson-Hince-Granlon. Marchman, Dushchevich. Shane Sagan and then Johnston Ranting and Dadanov or Ben or whoever ends up

on that line like I think the play here is to spread things out, spread the wealth and honestly that's that's not even really putting like one star in each line like they have pairs so they just have an embarrassment of riches up front and like this is such a home run in terms of the short term and long term

given how well they've balanced their books. I mean, they don't have a guy other than Rantanin, that's, you know, aside from Jamie Ben, who's going to expire and whatnot this summer, but like they're core guys, their 2017 draft, they're Wyatt Johnstons, they're Jake,

on George, Thomas Harley. Like, these guys are all eight and a half or below. Like, it's wild what they've done in terms of, I guess, having a quote, unquote,

internal cap and rantin and obviously blowing past that, but desperate times call for desperate measures, but they've really set themselves up quite well here for when Ben comes off the books, there's not going to be some sort of cap crunch in the summer. No, and Sean, I think that you and I have spoken a little bit

tangentially about how the possibility of Sagan being on LTIR next year, because I'm skeptical that he's all of a sudden going to come back and just be healthy moving forward for the rest of his career. That, plus the possibility of just dumping the expiring year of Matt Dumbas deal this summer or at some point next year,

all of a sudden offers them like 20 million of cap space to play with with all these guys signed. So it's a pretty good spot in terms of mapping everything out. And they've been playing really well, even post-Mero Hayskin, injury. Part of that as the power play just went incredibly nuclear, right? But they've been 12, 2, and 1 in their past 15. They've now jumped up and leapfrogged a bunch of teams at a top of the league's hierarchy in terms of the cup odds. And I think something we've spoken about in the past and is a bit more difficult to quantify and might not be fair because you watch the way Wyatt Johnson played last

postseason and just how dominant he was, especially towards the end of that Vegas series, and then for games against Colorado. And it was like, I know this guy is young and he hasn't necessarily done this for a long time, but he's already a star for me, not just a Dallas star, but like a capital letter star in the league. So it's not that they don't have stars. They have really good players. But part of the question with them for a couple of years now has been when you get into a playoff series against the abs who have McKinnon and McCarr or the Oilers last year,

when you see what Connor McDavid does in that clinching game six, right, where he just has that freakish highlight real goal. And that's kind of the difference. And the stars had a ton of shot volume and chances, but they weren't able to create a goal when they needed it most. The year before against Vegas and what Jack Eichle did to them in that series, they fell a little bit short in terms of having all this great depth and different personnel they could throw in teams,

but not having that one or two guys that could just kind of take over a game or a series. And Ranton still isn't on like on my, short list of guys that can necessarily do that. But as an efficiency machine offensively and his reputation as a goal scorer, I do feel like gives them a certain element of that here, right? And the salary certainly

speaks for that as well. But I feel like that also gives them a bit of a different gear here to maybe level up and keep up with some of these other best Western conference teams. Well, and... Well, I'm just going to say quickly, like, I mean, he's right up there points per game

in the playoffs of all. time. I mean, he's got 101 points in 82 career playoff games. That's a pretty big sample size. I mean, an entire season's worth of playoff games. Obviously, some of those are second assists on, you know, McKinnon and McCar and whatnot. But this guy's a clutch player. And it also, him being a two-way player and just that, that forward group being very versatile, I feel like lessens the blow of, you know, that right side of the blue line. It's like, okay, it would have been nice if they address that. but I feel like it's not much of an issue at this point. If you look at Dallas on paper versus the other contenders,

it's like, okay, their goaltending mix with their forward group really just downgrades that blue line concern to, you know, a minimal weakness. It's like, and I don't want to like sell it short, but it's something that just from a stars franchise perspective, this is not anything they've ever really had before. So Jason Robertson's scoring 109 points a couple years, ago, that's the first time the stars have had a 100-point player. They're bringing in a guy who he probably won't get it this year because of the trade stuff and then he probably

like he's on pace for like 91 or something like that this year. But you're talking about a guy who did it twice the last two years. Like this is a franchise altering type impact player that comes in. It's a franchise that they've been good. They've all, like I saw a stat the other day like since 2000 or whatever. Like they've got second or third for most amount of wins. So won a lot of games, but it's always been, there might have been, there might have been, one piece leading them, but there was always, it was running four or five deep. This is something that they've never really had in the franchise perspective. And I know someone will say, oh, Mike Madana.

Well, Mike Badano was like that in like 91 with the Minnesota North Stars. That's, that's forever ago. And so this, this changes a ton for them. And it's, I think it also, just for that group in that locker room, it's a team that was all, that always kind of rolled on the, some of the parts. well, now you bring a focal point in, somebody who's wanted to be a focal point from my understanding. And like, Brandon wants to be a focal point. And now you get everyone else continues to do their stuff with a little bit less attention.

Like, I think this could just be, I think this could be a great like overall rising tide for Dallas from that element as well. Just mentality, play on the ice. And it's like, this is a home run. I don't know how many ways I can say that. Well, and we might get a very quick and prompt answer to this. question that we sort of posed because you look up and the aves in the wild are tied at 76 points. If Colorado can leapfrog the wild for third in the in the central, all of a sudden we're staring down the likelihood of amicorantan and the Dallas stars versus the Colorado

Abilanch rematch in round one, which is obviously incredibly overqualified for a round one matchup, but would still be incredible theater, it would just be surreal to see. So yeah, yeah, I mean, there's so many fun parts of this. Either of you guys have anything else from the start. perspective here because I do want to get into the Carolina angle of this a little bit more as well. The one piece, and this is actually probably parlay well into the Carolina spot, is it's interesting to me. I would be, I would love to figure out of the, for the, from when it came to the stars figuring this deal out, was it Jim Nill going and saying it's the picks and one of Borker Stankhoven? or was it a, hey, was like, I would just be, I would love to learn from a

Carolina perspective what they were pushing for because to me, if I was Carolina, I would have been trying to take a little bit of the certainty in Maverick Bork instead of the other first. And I guess that's a good way to segue there for you, right? That's good radio. That's very good. You're a broadcasting professional. Let's solo, let's put a pin in that.

Let's take our first break here today. And then we come back, we'll jump right back in. We're going to cover the hurricanes angle of this, and then we're going to bounce around and cover plenty more today. You're listening to the HockeyPedocast streaming on the Sportsnet radio network. All right. We're back here in the Hockey Ocast doing our trade deadline recap. We spent pretty much the entirety of part one talking about Mithamico Randin and Trade and the whole saga from the stars perspective. I want to quickly cover some hurricanes notes I had.

And John, I think you alluded to this when you impromptly started just talking about the hurricane. angle of this. I obviously wanted to cover the stars off the top. If you look at it, it's interesting, and this might be a flawed way to look at it, but I think in totality, you kind of lump the two transactions together, and it's Marty Natchez, Jack Jewry, a second to third and a fourth, for Taylor Hall, Logan Stankov, and two firsts, right? And I think that it's easy to forget it now, but if you think back to as recently as this past summer, when Martin Hs was an RFA, it seemed like after years of questions, about the fit stylistically and his usage under Rod Brindiborne and everything and disgruntleman,

it was like, oh man, at the draft, they're going to trade him to Buffalo or New Jersey or kind of one of these teams. And the return is you have to have to temporary expectations, right? And so I think if you view it through that lens, what they got back here in putting the two trades together is totally reasonable and justifiable. Now, it might not be fair to look at it that way because, you know, new information has kind of presented itself since then, Marty Natchez, especially. since he went to Colorado has had a glow up, right, and looks phenomenal in Colorado.

And I think his stock around the league is viewed a little bit differently. Obviously, there's the Rantanin component of this and his name caliber and everything where I think it's fair to be kind of disappointed or left lukewarm by a team who makes a move like that, as Caroline did. And we celebrated. And then after 13 games, they sort of take a lateral step or a step backward by design and limit their cup chances a little bit for this season. and maybe they wanted to do that.

I don't think that was their plan A. Certainly, I think they would much prefer to just have rant in there for the next eight years. And that's why they made the trade. But we were speaking in last summer of, you know, when they had all these free agent departures, it was like, all right, this is going to be a bit of a transition year for them, right? I'm not sure they're still going to be good and competitive, but I'm not sure if 24, 25 is going to be the year they finally put it together and get over the hump. It might come after that. And so that's kind of what they, in a very roundabout way,

did here. I guess I was just kind of surprised, especially after we knew that they were getting the two firsts and two thirds. And I know it took the trade call a while to actually finally formalize the deal. I was expecting them to turn around and use some of those futures on a top six wing that could help them now, whether it was a Brock Bess or a rental or someone else to kind add a little bit of scoring pop so they could try and have their cake and eat it too. They didn't wind up ultimately doing anything. And so now they're in this spot where they essentially have a bunch of futures. What do you think about this? I know you already kind of spoke about it from, from your Kane's thoughts, but kind of just reading the tea leaves there and maybe lumping the

two trades together and sort of the decision they made here ultimately. Yeah, like I think it, if you're looking on a spreadsheet or if you're looking at this like logically in terms of assets in assets out, like it's perfectly justifiable. I just think things change when you've got a player of rent and its caliber and you're in a contention window. And that's not to say trading him was like the worst idea of all time. I'm not saying the canes completely fumbled this, but I just, if I was in that scenario and I had the option to trade, rant it in or keep them and, you know, hope for the best and free agency, I would have hoped for the best and free agency. Obviously, easier said than done when you're on the outside, but I don't know, the east just seems

fairly open right now. And I believe in the canes generally as a, as a team under Rod Brindamor and their ability, like their floor is extremely high. So I thought, hey, we saw the impact that Jake Gensel had on your team last year. Yeah, you lost them for nothing, but that doesn't mean that Rantanin would also leave in the summer. And it also doesn't mean that Rantanin wouldn't be worth keeping. So yeah, I don't know. It's tough, right? Because, you know, who knows? Maybe they go on some run here and they look like geniuses because they make the cup final and also recouped all these assets. I don't know what's going to happen. But the way that I've been looking at it in the last few hours is just kind of like at some point, you need to throw caution to the wind and go for it.

I think the spreadsheet angle is a very astute one by you, right? Because I think we often speak about how the hurricanes sort of operate differently than pretty much every other organization in the league of like assigning value to players and then making calculated decisions based on that. It's like, all right, if this is a better value, we're going to do it without worrying about the emotional task. or anything that follows, it's very different than what a lot of contenders do, especially you look this year and someone like Julian Breezwah and Tampa Bay, for example, where he picks a player he likes that fits and works for them financially, and he's going to get him at any cost, right? And that's just not really what the hurricanes do here.

Sean, I will say, though, Logan Stankov, and there's something very on brand about a 5-8 guy shooting. 6% being the crown jewel of this trade for the Hurricanes. Obviously, I'm joking because everyone knows I'm a huge Logan Stankovin fan and I'm not holding his production against him this year. I think he's

been kind of quite unlucky or whether you want to say it's a sophomore slump or whatever, but he's going to be a complete lunatic in Rod Brindamore's system, right? Like the max pressure and him flying around and I think he's gone legitimate. He showed him much more early in the season than he has recently like legitimate playmaking chops as well

where it's not necessarily just an energy grinder, but someone who can legitimately make plays and create goals for you off of that effort as well. So I love him as a player. I can totally see why the Hurricanes would be enamored with him as well. He's going to be on his ELC next year as well. So he's going to provide immense value as a cost-controlled asset. And you look ahead for the Hurricanes, and this is the big point for me here. While it's a disappointment, they've got 57.6 million in cap commitments heading into next year. That leaves them with about 38 million in cap space. I also, think that they use this entire process.

It might have backfired on them a little bit here in the short term. But I think they used it as sort of a intelligence recon mission of sorts, where they were just talking to every contender in the league essentially and building a database of like, all right, if you're the kings, how much do you, how really attached are you to Adrian Kempay, for example, talking to other teams and being like, all right, like, is this guy someone who you can see yourself giving up no matter what? Or is he for the right price going to be available? And so you kind of put that in combination with that cap space I mentioned.

And I feel like this summer their ability to sort of circle back and maybe pounds on some of those decisions, especially when teams I think are going to want to clear a cap space to get in on the free agent market and to spend because we see that every summer with teams and their appetite to do so. I do feel like it puts the canes. It might not benefit them certainly for their aspirations of competing for a Stanley Cup this year. But I feel like it puts them in a pretty interesting spot heading into this offseason. Yeah, it's also there's also the element that I can't help but question to it. And I believe Eric Tolski has full autonomy.

I do believe that, but I also can't help about just a bit of the organizational ethos of, you talk about making that, that foray into kind of getting as much information as possible. I can see them doing that. But I also can't help but wonder whether it comes directly, whether it's a fair thing or not, the reputation is Tom Dundon wants to get return on assets, right? That is, that is, whether that is fair or not, that is the reputation. And they had last year where you get the rental that you didn't, that you effectively lost for nothing. So I can't help but wonder whether it comes down from the top directly or not, if there's a bit of that ethos of, well, we need hurricanes hockey

is part of finding a way to keep the machine turning. So we always are working forward. So I can't help but wonder that. I do like the idea. Like I think it's a smart thing. to go and do that recon and figure out and like, like, all right, well, is this, we, we talk to Vancouver. Maybe this is our, we have a conversation about Elias Pedersen, disguised as a Miko Raton trade. Like there's, there's, I do like that idea. I just, I just can't help but kind of wonder with,

when you made the trade for Ratonan, was the plan from the top always, we're going to flip him if he doesn't resign? Like, I can't, I would just love to be able to have some truth serum to know, to know that and where that comes. And then once again, this is not me saying Eric Tolski doesn't have full autonomy. I just, you know you have to work for your boss. And that's that's something I can't help but think about right now. That's fair.

I mean, they clearly, that clearly wasn't planning, right? Like they made him a very sizable offer. I think they were very interested in shedding. You know, we spoke last year when they acquired Jake Enzel, how they were the team to land him and what a coup that was for them in terms of. shedding that image of being the place where you always fall second place, you fall short of getting that star. They don't want to stay there. I think that's clearly a hit optically here.

And maybe there was some baggage in decision to get something for it as opposed to reliving that again here. But they also are an organization. I think this is for the better. They very much value optionality and flexibility and the ability to jump at opportunities. Right. And so now you look ahead this summer and with the cap space. the extra picks they got here. Forget even the trade market,

although I do think they're the very obvious Eric Carlson landing spot to replace Ben Burns playing with Jacob Slavin, but just go out and sign, forget Mitch Barter, just go out and sign Nick Eilers who look phenomenal on this team and has been linked to the hurricanes

for like a decade now, and then use the rest of your assets, you bring over in Akeeson, and all of a sudden, I think it's a very natural reloading of actually getting a lot of that talent that I think we've been craving from them. So I think there's a lot of fun wrinkles here

moving forward. It's not satisfying right now. out for them necessarily, but I do think they're in a really good spot from an asset maximization perspective to improve their team very significantly as soon as the summer. Yeah, and as much as I question the flipping of Ranton, like, I do appreciate the idea of being a top 10, top 8 team for, let's just say, you know, the start of the Broadbrennamore era, I think they're on year seven. I mean, they've been in that ballpark the whole time. time. They're probably going to continue to be in that ballpark for the next few years.

So I appreciate the the sort of strategy of always being in the mix, not necessarily always being, you know, the top dog and the, you know, the 2018, 19 lightning, that 160 whatever games, but always being in the mix and just kind of turning things over and turning things over and turning things over. And then the bounces one year will go your way. And, you know, there's something to be said for building a sustainable winner. think the Montreal Canadians are on their way to building a sustainable winning team. So, yeah, this instance, I wish they had kept rancid in, but in general, I like what the canes

are doing in terms of like basically having two tracks. I mean, I guess Dallas has this going on too where it's like you've got your here and now in the short term and you care about that and you make some moves towards that, but you're also always have one eye on the future, whether it's sort of the medium term two or three years down the road or long term, you know, recoup assets when you can, retain salary when you can and just sort of, you know, trying to, as you said before, Dim, like trying to have your cake and eat it too. And it's difficult to do. And obviously here, they punt it a little bit. But I appreciate the grind, if you will, or the strategy, the overarching strategy that they have. Can I say this about, let me say this about this. One of the things I like

about this is we're talking about the biggest trade of the deadline between two contenders. I think that's one of the things. And that is something where all the time, like, I'm often the one that makes the joke about it where like the NBA trade deadline always happens like, what, two, three weeks before. And there's always a big move. And I'm like, oh, let's all get ready for third pairing defenders and, and to move for way more. So I love that we are having this type of conversation about two contenders making a trade. And I also love that it's two teams that embraced plan B for different ways, right? Like, Dim, you had me on the show and you told me how boring I was when I said,

well, I don't think Jim is going to move Logan Stanko. Well, hold on. You were like, all right, I think they're targeting Frank Vitrano, and I was like, all right. But that's what they were doing. That's what they were, that's legitimately what they were doing. When they talked to San Jose, when they talked to San Jose and they made the trade for Cody Cici and Granlin, San Jose asked for both Sancoven and Bork, and they're like,

now we can't do it and Jim was very adamant like I'm not those guys are part of the core they're untouchable well his plan B all of a sudden when the biggest fish becomes available you're willing to go to plan B stars went to plan B that way the Carolina went to plan B where they couldn't re-sign him I think this is just we should celebrate that for a moment where it's two contending teams making a trade and it's two GMs whether you like the result or not that we're willing to be like okay I don't have to stick with the same path and I can go into a plan B that that is made everything more exciting for all this. I want to celebrate that for a minute.

Well, I think we certainly should celebrate to that point is a contender who has diligently built up and developed enough assets and remained flexible enough to take advantage of this, right, as opposed to certain other contenders where it's like, oh, there's only so much we can do with this deadline, even though we'd love to land Amico-Rentan it because we just, we can't feasibly pull it off, right? John, before we move on here, though, I can't let you get away with that. That flyby Montreal Canadian's inclusion to this conversation was outrageous. I didn't know Eric Angus was showing the chat.

I'm very high on the HAB's future. I'll just put it that way. The rest of the, let's talk about the rest. You can be high on the future though. That's not now, John. No, I'm not saying our truck contender. Sorry, did it come, did it come out that way? Like I was comparing them directly to, no.

Building up, building up sustainable contenders, like what the Montreal Canadians are doing. I was like, all right, let's not, let's not jump. 14 steps here. I know they've been playing well. I just I just I just really liked what they've done in the rebuild and I think I can envision a moment in the future when we are talking about them in similar terms, but by no means right now. They might they need to make the playoffs first. I apologize for that. Disgression. As I said, my, my fatigue is going to lead to some interesting conversations here. You know, the natural segue for us is the rest of the central. Let's move around here a little bit and talk about the other two top teams that are going to be in this conversation,

the Jets and the abs. And I want to start. with the Jets because while we just celebrated what the stars did, I feel like what the Jets accomplished here was a big disappointment. For me, their first in the league on pace for, I believe, like 117 points by season's end. I've loved watching them play. I think they're really doing a lot of fun and creative stuff on the ice. And I think it's a really, really good team, as their first place standing suggests. But I also think they had a very fair case to be the team entering this postseason with the highest stakes because of all that baggage over the past couple years, with the rising cap, with how good they are, with some of the questions they have in terms

of contracts moving forward as well. And so they entered this deadline with $12 million in cap space, obvious needs at second line center and third lefty to replace Logan Stanley and improve on that. And they saw their two biggest competitors, one of which who they're going to have to play eventually in round two if they get through round one, go out and significantly improve their teams take big swings. We're going to, we just talked about what the stars did. We're going to cover the abs in a second here. And I'm, since I'm empathetic about the idea that they entertained Brock Nelson,

Braden Shen, maybe even Jared McCann, as I had suggested. And those guys had trade limitations in their contracts and just didn't want to go to Winnipeg. That's very fair. But at the end of the day, you're going to be judged based on your results and what you accomplish here, especially on the day of the deadline. and what they have to show for their work is they use two seconds and a fourth. They bring in Luke Shenan Brandon Tanev, who I think are two undeniably good dudes

that are going to help with the vibes they've been building there and can serve their own purpose in their different ways. But they also exit this deadline with $6 million of unused cap space, which I think is almost unacceptable for a contender when we see some of these teams so creatively trying to carve out any money they can to keep adding to their teams and improving. And the same existing needs they had heading in. that still remain unanswered for me.

So it's a really good team that can still win despite that. But I feel like when you compare their work here, compared to the two teams they're going to be judged against, it does kind of pale in comparison. Yeah, it's tough because Brock Nelson would have been the perfect fit. This is the one contender across the league where you circle second line center and you go. They absolutely need to improve here.

Vladimir Fladenimskhov isn't it? Like he should be their fourth line center if Lowry's your third and Shifley's your first. So they didn't address that. They didn't bring in any centers. I think TANF is an okay fit in the bottom six with forechecking and energy and all that kind of stuff. I think Shen is an improvement maybe on a third pair guy, like a Logan Stanley or Colin Miller, given the handedness, probably Colin Miller.

But certainly nothing seismic, nothing that moves the needle for Winnipeg, which is disappointing. But I don't know, those no trade clauses. is like literally, well, not literally every player because that's not true, but like what, 60, 70% of the league has one. And if we were to look at all those no trade clauses, is Winnipeg on 90% of them? I'm just speculating, but it's tough sledding for Kevin Shevolday off sometimes in terms of convincing people to come.

And that's not to let them off the hook entirely because I'm sure there would have been more creative ways to get it done. But in Nelson's case, I mean, if he just says I'm not going to Winnipeg, then it doesn't matter what the package. right? Yeah, it's like, to echo that, right? Like for me, it's, I get, there's the disappointment of like, hey, this just feels like nothing deadline. Like, you do a little here, a little bit that. And it just feels like nothing deadline. And then your point's good of like, all right, well, I wonder if from a Winnipeg perspective, and this is one of those where we just talked,

I just talked about Carolina and Dallas being more creative, it's one of those where I put a little bit more of on shovel day off here of show some of the willingness to embrace plan B and ask some questions that maybe maybe if you're Winnipeg like every job comes with different shortfalls and benefits if you're Winnipeg and it comes to getting players to ask for a no trade to wave to no trade lists and all of that stuff you probably got to do your shopping a couple days earlier like you can't do it on like two you can't do it at 9 a.m. on deadline day and so maybe that's one of the side effects where maybe Winnipeg. needs to be active earlier.

And just like the benefits, and each team has their benefits and pitfalls. And that's kind of how I start to think about the Jets here where they're still one of the best teams in the league. They're still there. But you have this great team. This is the year where maybe some of those guys on that list, if you reach out Wednesday, Thursday,

and start working a little bit ahead of time, maybe you start to convince them because someone looks at the standings and then you put them in touch with somebody you played there and you change the narrative. I don't know. I just, I think a lack of creativity here is the way I look at it, especially after we just talked about Dallas and Carolina being creative. I mean, we've seen those splashes from the past, right?

Whether you want to go all the way to back to Paul Stasney or Kevin Hayes or last year with Mon-Anne and Tofoli, we've seen them added a deadline relatively aggressively, and I feel like this was the one year where it would have made so much sense to just push all your chips into the middle of the table. And for all we know, they very well might have tried and just couldn't ultimately get anything done, but I feel like generally where there's a will, there's a way. And this team is good enough and is warranted enough of a shot that like this was the year to kind of really go for it. Now, they're still going to be really good. They're still leading the league. They're still

going to have home ice in that round two matchup against either of these teams. So it's not like, I don't want to portray it as they're in a bad spot all of a sudden. But just in, you know, when we're kind of taking stock of what happened and how much teams improve themselves, I do feel like contrasting what they did or what they didn't compare it to what these teams. two other teams did, it is a pretty sizable difference. Yeah, and they seem like a team that maybe could have done the whole Shen Brother thing, which is like more narrative driven than like hockey driven. But, you know, when you're the Winnipeg Jets, you know, maybe you need a little bit of that

that sort of familial ties to pull something off. But Doug Armstrong talking after the deadline was in St. Louis was basically saying, you know, he listened to offers or a couple of hockey trades that he could have pulled off. But ultimately he thought, hey, it's better for us to make the playoffs than take those packages. And they might not even make the playoffs. I guess a challenge for the playoffs might be a better way to put it. So you got to have a willing dance partner as well on the other side.

And you would think that St. Louis would be a little more open to, you know, a mid-30s, Braden Chen on that contract to move him. And presumably Brayden Shen would be interested in joining his brother in Winnipeg. They're both from the prairies. You know, I don't want to, you know, it's very possible. but he doesn't want to go to Winnipeg. Who knows? But, you know, you start connecting the dots.

And it's like, you know, maybe there was something there with Braden Shen, but St. Louis was just unwilling to really entertain something, um, particularly interesting from Winnipeg. Hmm. Well, the J,

the abs, uh, certainly did not share that same moderation that the Jets employed to say the least. And I think that was somewhat surprising on my end, just because when they made the initial, rant and for Nature swap, it felt like they were sort of treating this as a bit of a transition or a gap year, right?

It bought them the extra year of Natchez. They'd have more sort of clarity, I guess, this summer, hopefully, in terms of how much they can spend, what they can spend, what they need to do, and they'd enter the off-season with that flexibility to kind of reload, and it felt like they were doing that, and maybe that process got sped up by the fact that,

I mean, A, McKinn and and Macarra playing so well, but B, Nacious has been such an incredible fit that you watched away him Lekinen and McKinnon are playing and it's like, all right, every night we step on the ice, we have a chance to win, so let's not waste and squander this opportunity. So I think that's perfectly logical, but what we saw, and you want to put this whole week into perspective,

they sent out a first, two seconds, a fourth. Their 2023 first, Calum Ritchie, Casey Middlestad, DeHan, Parson, and who they just traded a third for it to acquire from Nashville in December, and Oliver Shillington for Brock Nelson, who's a 33-year-old UFA, Charlie Coil, who has another year at 5.25 next year, and Ryan Lindgren, who's also a UFA this summer. And so they undoubtedly got better in the process, right? And I think Nelson in particular rocks, and he's 31st in the league and five-on-five goals this year,

tied with guys like pointing Gensel. A lot of the reason why he doesn't show up amongst the league leaders and scoring is because New York's had the worst power play in the league. that's not really what Colorado needs. They're fine there. And so now a second line center who can play with Nichushkin and Druin in this environment where it's like off the rush, he's just going to get so many glorious opportunities.

That's bread and butter for Brock Nelson's game. And so I think he's going to be incredible fit. It was just a bit of a pivot in terms of their direction for me and especially the price they paid to accommodate it. And it's funny because I actually had heard this week that they had aspirations of even bigger stuff. I don't know what that necessarily entails, but I think they were like thinking on a pretty large scale

in terms of really going for it and they ultimately settled on this, but clearly moved out a lot to improve their team, especially for the rest of this season. We'll see what happens with those UFAs and what their team looks like heading into next season. Sean, maybe you can touch on the big picture in a second year, but let me just chime in quickly with some Nelson Sport logic numbers.

I mean, this guy, like I knew he was a complete player, but he's on the short list for most complete, forwards in the NHL. Like it's, it's kind of shocking how few holes there are in his game. I mean, 95th percentile for trading, scoring chances among forwards, 87th percentile in zone entries, 96 percentile in rush chances, 86 percentile, 86 percentile in inner slot shots. He's really high up in deflections, 85 percent.

And then you've got, you know, even like his defensive game. I mean, 94th percent. centile and loose puck recoveries. 95th and puck battle wins. 97th and block passes. 98th and stick checks. Like this guy is doing it at both ends of the ice and in transition. And he kind of just gets lost in the shuffle, though,

because he's not flashy, even though he's fast. And he's been on Long Island for so long. So I think he could really pop in Colorado with more offensive power on his wings. And I wasn't sure if Colorado was going to. going to be the team that landed them. But I see that mixed with NACIS being implemented and things going so well as such a win for a team that traded Miko Ranson in the middle of the season. You know what I mean?

Like they're in a pretty good spot, especially when you consider they turned over their goaltending in whatever was October, November. Like they've done some serious surgery in season on their roster. And it looks pretty good, all things considered. I look at Colorado. look at, it's funny because it's, it's, it's, it's easy to connect everything to Dallas and and right now. And I'm not trying to, but it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's impossible not to with the, the, the two rivals and them, them being right there. But to me, there are elements of Colorado

going and trying to steal a little bit, what the Dallas stars used to be when they did have some of those playoff battles. And like, so why are the, why are the reasons that Dallas has beaten Colorado in the playoffs at times? And obviously, Colorado's the point of Stanley Cup in that time, so we can argue, obviously, Colorado has had the better recent track record, but head-to-head series, Dallas has had good playoffs against Colorado. Part of that is Dallas has really capitalized on those 30, 35-year-old guys who know how to play a role and do it in both ends and everything like that. And it was always Colorado's like, oh, we need these one, we just need the McKinnon line and McCar to carry us, and the rest will show up. I think we saw a lot of

that this since the Randen trade started with Natchez with as you just talked about with the trade from the Islanders and everything like that where now Colorado feels a little bit like hey we are trying to beat basically what might be our first round matchup at their own game in a way and it's it's super fascinating to me and again once again sorry dim I'm not trying to connect everything to Dallas and Ranan right now but this series to me is just going to be one of the most fascinating first round series maybe ever for me just because of the dynamics of how the two teams are built the switching sides the changing identities a little bit it's it's just it's that's what i watch with colorado right now a bit well like to your point john brock nelson is such a great fit on

this team for a variety of reasons i think he's going to just eat off the rush at five one five for them i do think that going from middle stat who was kind of sticking out like a sore thumb for a lot of the year in terms of just being an awkward all fit in terms of his pace and skill set on this team. It's an organization that has historically maybe more than anyone else really placed an emphasis on physical tools in terms of size and speed for players. And it makes sense given the tempo they play at and at altitude. It's like you want to take advantage and leverage that to your full advantage. And so in doing so, you look at this lineup and Sean, kind of what you're nailing as well there. It's going to be a handful of a team

to try and corral, especially up and down the lineup. They have so much, so many. So many, different center options as well now and just like guys who are a nightmare off the puck and are going to pursue you and are going to be just very difficult to play against. And so they got significantly better here. It was just a bit of a strange departure, I guess, from where they'd been at. And to your point, they've made more moves than anyone here along the way. So like they've done a ton of in-season surgery here, which is kind of rare in terms of just the volume and magnitude of moves they made.

And this deadline was no different in kind of continuing to steer in that. direction. Well, they're probably getting Gabe Landiscag back. Like, who knows what he's going to look like? Well, I'll see on that. I mean, you know, it looks like it might happen. Like, I'd have to look at the cap and everything. But McFarlane, before the deadline was like, we're preparing for him to return.

So I guess we'll see. And who knows what it'll look like, you know, maybe he's just like a third line player at this point in his career. But nevertheless, I shot in the arm. And they've been so reliant on just that top line, though. right? And so now not only Nelson in the second line, but you look at a third line with like Logan O'Connor, Coil and Colton like stuff's kind of lining up

and falling into a very natural place. So I do love that. But man, they, they moved a lot here to kind of accomplish this with still a lot of questions moving forward, especially beyond this season. I mean, it's the deadline. I know you've talked about it in your show before,

but it's worth noting, right? Like, this is a team that has been the fact that they, flop, they completely swapped that goalie tandem to start the year to now. So I know, so I'm just like, we're at the trade deadline. We're talking about moves the last 48 hours, but I think you look at the whole body of work of moves that teams make. Like, it has been incredibly impressive, the willingness for months now for Colorado

to be proactive on this. And that's, and I think it was just like, because they play San Jose the other day, and they see the welcome back video for Georgia, which is kind of funny. And so, like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, kind of like you can't help but think about this of how they're looking at this so i believe that nelson and coyle are going to be like the 45th and 46 different skater they've used this year not to mention whatever six or seven goals they've cycled through so yeah just the volume of it is is absolutely mind-boggling do we know what number charlie coo is going to wear because i always hated

when he was wearing like three and four and like all of a sudden it would seem deep in the zone especially with minnesota i'd be like why is why why why the wild don't normally have a defenseman pitch this deep what's going on is he's We'll see. I'm not sure. We need some reporters to do some digging on that. But on that note, one thing we didn't mention in the hurricane side of the Ranton and trade to bring it back, Jack Roslovich, who gave up 96 for 13 games and got a nice little Rolex out of it also getting his number back. I feel like Jack Roslovich, he's talking about winners and losers of the deadline. He's right up there on my short list

of guys who benefited the most. Did they, do you think they made a large printing of Nico Ratton in Hartford Whalers jerseys? Because that's going to be like that that's going to be like, That's going to be like the collector's item, I think, in years from now. Yeah, Randon and Whalers and Roslovich, 98. Yeah, yeah, yes. Vintage fines 10 years from now. Yes.

All right, guys, let's take another break here. And then we come back, we'll drive and pray back into it. We're done with the Central. We'll move along to other divisions. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sportsnet radio network. We're back here on the Hockey P.D.O.cast with Sean Shapiro and John Maddis. Fellas, we did the Central Division. And I think it's the biggest storyline coming out of this deadline, arguably,

just because of the Ranting and trade and how the three teams are kind of shaping up there. I do think the arms race, if you compare it to the Atlantic Division as well, is really worth getting into for us here. We saw the Panthers, you know, they made the Seth Jones trade last weekend. They used Kachuk's LTIR money initially. I was like, because we always have these conversations every year of contenders, navigating around the cap, putting guys in LTIR and then sort of loading up their team beyond what should be allowed.

And in this case, for a long stretch, it was like, they used it to bring in Nico Sturm, who I do like as a player, and I think is very functional and kind of gives them a nice little Kevin Stenland replacement on the fourth line. And then Vipi Tec Vannichick as a backup goalie after Spencer Knight left. And I was like, all right, this is their, these are their shenanigans. And then in the dying minutes, even after the deadline, really, we find out that a deal has been made that's in the queue.

They're getting brand Marshanned as well, which is incredible drama considering everything that's gone on with those two organizations. I do think there's a fair case to be made that the Panthers like killed the Bruins just in terms of if you look at like the past two years beating them in the playoffs, you watch when they play each other how clearly they're just like living in the heads of the Bruins and how they're tormenting them.

And then obviously they get Marshan from them here and then kind of the symbolism of that and everything it represents. The forward group is absolutely incredible on paper at full health, right? You're looking at for Hagee, Barkov, Reinhardt, a second line of Marshaun, Bennett, and Kachuk, which is absolutely hilarious. A third line of Lucerne and Lundel, and then you can either have Evan Rodriguez in there,

or I really need to find more spots higher up in the lineup for my guy Mackie Samiskevich, who all of a sudden, by the way, is playing on PP1 for the Panthers and scoring goals and looking really, really good. And then a nice fourth line balance as well. It's going to be a forechecking nightmare, kind of more of what they've been previously. But I do feel like, you know,

and lumping it all together, the Jones, and then the Marchand of it certainly, Bill Zito kind of did it again in terms of allowing this team to be in a position to go in another long run to defend their title to make a third straight Stanley Cup final and we'll still see on Marchand right I thought that because he went for a second but it's conditional based on his on his usage in the playoffs and I think that sort of acknowledges some of the risk here because he's out right now his injury looked pretty bad when he sustained it I know they're expecting him back, but we'll see in terms of what he's actually able to provide beyond the name brand value,

but it's still a fun little lad. I really thought that Vegas would continue their villain arc of being the team that Brad Marchand went to, and I thought that would have been a very fun fit as we put us to get on the video cast, but it went to the Panthers instead, and maybe they're a nice little Eastern Conference alternative on that. Do either of you have any thoughts on what the Panthers did here or Marchand on the Panthers or anything along that vein? I'll get to Panthers Bruins in a second, but first I do like the two-year

heel turn of Florida going to the cup final against Vegas, losing to the evil empire, and then taking all the lessons of like, no longer, like, we don't, we can just go do it ourselves. Like, I like, I like that kind of, it's been kind of fun to watch that, kind of go around that way. and then just from it is I would love to it's got to be one of the more painful things like for

if you're a boss if you're a Bruins fan right like you're watching you're now going to go watch the Bruins tear down it's the admittance that this season is not working all of that and the you're like

okay maybe I want to go watch the former captain in the playoffs and now you have to watch him on the team that effectively broke the brain of your team the past couple of years. Like, it is, it's great. Like, I talked about the Florida, the Carolina Dallas trade being great for the sport.

This one's also great for the sport. It is legitimate bad guys and villains. And I love this. So this, this to me is super fun. I mean, I think we, yeah, I agree. I think it's easy to get excited about Bennett and Marchan and Kitch and this sort of all pest line potentially, or even just them three being in the same four group is fantastic. And who knows, maybe it's going to be awesome.

But also, I'm a little worried about Marchand's health here with him being week to week. And, you know, the conditions on the pick are pretty much like if this guy is in any of these games in the playoffs, you know, it turns into a first. I mean, I'm exaggerating. But it's heavily kind of dependent on his health. So I wonder about that. But I don't know. This is, you know, great to see from the perspective of like not having any skin in the game. and Marchand being such a character of the game

and being late in his career and clearly the Bruins going in the opposite direction and blowing up parts of their core, at least like the older part of their core where it's like if you're Marchand, it's like, you know, maybe you weren't fully on board with this at the start, but by the time the trade comes down,

you're like, yeah, I'm going to go and try and win another cup. And, I mean, we saw it at Four Nations face off. Like he is, this is going to sound like foxy or whatever, but he's a really good spokesperson person for the game. He's a good guy to have in the spotlight as far as creating drama and the chirping back and forth and even just being, you know, willing to be in front of cameras every day. Like it's, it's really something. And then from a playing perspective, yeah, he's lost

a step. Yeah, he's not quite the, you know, 80 point, 100 point player he used to be. But I think in the right system, in the right role, within the right minutes and having the right teammates surrounding him, he can be pretty effective. Which is what he's going to do on this team. And it is a nice fit, assuming he's healthy. Do you hold in any water

for the potential that he's actually a sleeper agent that the Bruins out of retribution have sent in to take the Panthers down from the inside? It's possible. Yeah, I mean, it'd be fun, but no. Yeah. I mean, the Bruins actually, I think, did well, right?

Because they've had a miserable season and they've been kind of at this and around this for so long and they sold off pretty much everything they could they did keep morgan geeky but they sold first brazzo for quite a bit from minnesota um coil as we said to colorado marchand here also carlo got a bunch of interesting pieces at least back in turn in return in return for those guys so i think they did well all things considered and maybe maybe john that's a good segue into talking about the leaves as well here right in terms of this atlantic division arms race. I spent on the most recent show we did a full section talking about what Tampa Bay did

did with their trade, so we don't need to kind of rehash that here. But we haven't talked about the Leafs yet and their sort of participation in this because we'll still see, you know, talking about potential round one matchups. There's still so many moving parts here in terms of what that's going to be, who the two three is going to be in Atlantic, whether it's going to be at all Florida matchup between the Lightning and the Panthers, whether the Leafs are going to be involved, who's going to have home ice and the value of that in those series, especially for what Florida can do defensively at home. So I think that's incredibly interesting.

The Leafs added Brennan Carlo. They also added Scott Lawton. I got to say I was bracing myself to hate the Scott Lawton deal because his value's been pumped up so much pretty much since last year. And you looked at especially the market and some of the other acquisition costs we saw previously. And I was like, man, this is going to be a King's ransom. And not the Leafs didn't give up anything, but to get him next year as well at 1.5 with the money retained. They give up a 2027 first and a prospect, but they get back a fourth and a sixth, then, that retention.

I thought it was actually pretty reasonable considering some of the prices we saw. And both him and Carlo are kind of limited, I think, in terms of their skill set, but also, I think, going to be useful to this team. You look at Carlo and sort of what his reach can do in a playoff series, which I think he put on full display last year against the Leaps in round one, kind of how he bothered their own shooters and how we know that Morgan Riley seems to play his best with like some of these kind of bigger, less puck skill defensemen that can insulate them a little bit and that fit and splitting up the third pair as well, which has been a bit of a sore spot for them. So I do like that quite a bit from them. It's not necessarily as flashy of moves as Marsh and the Panthers or the Lightning trading a bunch of futures for Bjork Strand and Gord, but I do think it still is kind of in lockstep in being part of this conversation with these three teams. Yeah, I just wanted to quickly

circle back on the Bruins just to point out, like it seems like they saw what the capitals did over the last 12 months and they're like, we want to be the next capitals as far as, you know, this being a copycat league and, you know, just trying to retool, I guess, more aggressively than traditionally we look at retools. They already have McAvoy, Swayman and Pastor and actually have those cornerstones. It would be kind of silly to blow it up. And they didn't just bring in picks this week. I mean, Middle stat, he's in his 20s, Minton, he's, you know, early 20s. I'm going to butcher this guy's name, but who Husnodinov.

I don't know if I've ever said his name out loud. I've just read it before, and it's a bit of a riddle. But those are three guys that could be part of their core and is sort of their betting on them being perhaps better than they were in different scenarios. So that was something that stuck out to me from Boston's perspective. And it's not exactly rocket science. I mean, other teams have retooled in the past. But I feel like the capitals and how everything they've done is turned into gold

over the last 12 to 18 months has given some teams maybe a little. more confidence that they can do something similar. And then with the Leafs, I think you hit on a ton of the right points there, Dmitri. I mean, with bringing in a new centerman, it puts, it puts Domi back on the wing. I mean, it's been a bit of a disaster season for Max Domi. And I think that he's way more effective when he's on the wing and not the primary guy

on a line. So I liked a lot in addition, although it's funny, right? because I feel like a guy like Minton is probably overrated because he's a Leafs prospect versus being, I don't know, a Shark's prospect. But then I also feel like Lawton got a little overrated in the lead up to the deadline because there were so few centers and people got so infatuated with guys like him and Brayden Shen that it became like, you know, overblown how much of an impact this player might have. But when you slot him in the Leafs lineup at that 1.5 this year,

and next. I mean, that's value. And you've got now Matthews, Tavares, Loden, and Camp down the middle. I mean, that's really strong. And again, it moves a guy like Domi to the wing where that's been, even though they have Marner and Nielander, that's been a bit of a weakness over the years in terms of goal scoring and in terms of just filling out those lineup spots. So I like that addition and the Carlo one kind of necessary at this point, given the state of the least blue line. And yeah, Carlo is an interesting guy where he's not overly physical for a 6'5 200-pound guy, but great reach and blocks a ton of shots. I'm not going to compare him to Chris Tanna necessarily, but kind of sort of in a similar mold where the shot blocking is there, the good defensive stick is there, and the ability to play with a puck-moving defenseman is there. So hopefully that works out for the Leafs in terms of slotting their defenseman properly.

I mean, Sean, as you witness firsthand, whenever you can, minimize your max domi exposure in the playoff setting. I feel like I'm going to like that for your team. So I do like what that accomplished here. What the leaves most notably didn't do is add really any scoring pop, right? And that might seem like a bit of a counterintuitive thing to say about the leaves. It's like, oh, they have Matthews, Marner, Tavares, Nylander, like that they're fine. We've always been so obsessed.

Well, not we here in the PDO cast, but I feel like the NHL as a whole of like the Leafs, that are defense in the playoffs. And then every game seven, they score one goal and wind up losing. And I think it's just, you know, it's going to become even more pressure if that's possible, given the situation on like Matthews to just get healthy and get back to the top of his game, for example. I think he's beaten the goalie, two goalies in his past 16 games. He's had a bunch of chances along the way, including at the Four Nations,

but hasn't really been himself as a goal scorer. So it's a bigger kind of bet on that in terms of like the burden on those guys and supplementing their minutes elsewhere. so that's kind of what they chose to do and we'll see how they fare there. Sean, you got any notes on this? Or do you want to kind of bounce around and cover some other teams? Because I think we've only covered four or five teams so far. Yeah, John kind of echoed my thoughts on a bunch of with Toronto.

So let's bounce a bit. Okay, I think one of the biggest themes of this deadline and it's not a new concept we saw everyone talking about it, but is how much of a seller's market it was for teams that actually sold. Right? And some of the prices in particular you saw for players, you're like, all right, that player fetched a second or a third. That's kind of strange.

It's not anything that's going to blow you away in terms of consequence. But you look at what the sharks did, for example, and how much they cleaned up in terms of recouping capital, this entire trade season, where they like, whether you want to include Grandland and Cici and then Walman, Sturm, as we said, that a panthers cut into the blue jackets, or the bluejackers, as Pierre LeBron called them.

The blue jackers. Jetterland as well. Listen, I, and this is in your neck of the wood, Sean, but I really like Wallman, and I do get the argument that people are having of you don't want to be the Blackhawks where you tear everything down so much that once you get this player, like for them, Bedard and Celebrini for the sharks, where they're just not enough talent around them. And it's a miserable situation and everyone is upset. And then you can't, you get stuck in the mud organizationally. You can't really dig your way out of that big of a hole. I think ultimately, though, you just look at this pragmatically. It's like as much as I do really like Jake Walman as a player,

and I think he's a really good get for the Oilers. Getting the 53rd overall pick, as Mike Rear did, to take on Walman last summer, then playing him 50 games as the number one ice time guy on the team, and then spinning him again for another first is just such a no-brainer from a business perspective that I find all this kind of hand-rigging about, are the sharks doing too much here?

You actually need actual NHLers and bodies to play around these guys. I feel like that's sort of missing the point of what they're doing and what rebuilding teams are trying to accomplish. And if anything, I do really think that Mike Greer has done a phenomenal job here in a short time of doing exactly what rebuilding teams should do, which is taking chances on guys, rebuilding their value because the team has a bunch of minutes to go around, especially in scoring roles, making them look good, pumping their value, and then recouping the asses. it's to come with that in the trade market. And so I feel like if anything, them and other rebuilding teams should be doing even more of that. I think my career is on a phenomenal job. I think it is, I think it's okay at this deadline. I think people are having the conversation too early about the hand-wringing of you need players.

That's where I kind of come from it because, like, I think the Jake Wallman piece, because I have been very critical of how Jake Wallman was effectively jettisoned out of Detroit and given away with a second-round pick. knowing that, because I did the reporting at the draft where the sharks were ready to claim them on waivers. And then they picked up the call and the phone. And it was like, oh, well, we'll give you a second. And of course, they're like, well, of course we'll take the second. So I think that is taking a lottery ticket you were given and then just like taking then just going to the blackjack table and then somehow hitting on 21 right away.

That's what the sharks did with Walman. I think the hand ringing over the player thing, I think it becomes fair. year. I think it's one of those where it's like this year, you have Celebrini, you have Smith, you've got those guys. And honestly, not that they don't know better, but like, everyone knows what they signed up for this year. Everybody knows it's just about going through. You get another high pick this year, maybe another first overall. I think next year, as you need, now you have all this capital. Next year, if you're all of a sudden, you start tearing down all your NHL players at next year's deadline and you have all this capital already that you need to do some

things with. That's when I think you can start being like, well, you got to do something competitive. You can't have them playing. But I think this year, it's okay. You were punting on this year already. So I think the hand wringing is a year too early, if that makes sense here. Well, if anything, with these guys, they're already 32nd in the league in point percentage. Oh, yeah, yeah. To begin with. And yeah, the important note is like not only were a lot of these players in Walman and Granlin and CC like sort of reclamation projects that they got paid to take in the first place. But there are guys who ultimately just aren't even going to be around regardless of how you kept them by the time it's going to matter really. And so I think the time

to cash in was now, I think the sharks team, we're going to have plenty more time to talk about it, John. But I do think in looking ahead, their ability to kind of keep going through this cycle and maybe to a greater extent in terms of actually the kind of like players that fit the timeline more and will stay as opposed to being pumped and dumped is interesting because there's There's going to be so many buying opportunities for them to replicate that this summer. They have $45 million in cap space. I was thinking, like, seeing New York just decides that they want to spend their money elsewhere and doesn't want to pay Keondre Miller as an RFA.

That would be a very interesting target for the sharks. I think we just saw the devil's pay Jonathan Kovicevich. Now they're paying him and Pesci $9.5 million on the right side. They have Nemitz and Casey as well. Dougie Hamilton's full no move clause becomes a 10-team trade list this offseason. And so it's like, all right, well, if they want to create more flexibility and get off of $9.5 million, if they owe them or $9 million or whatever for the next three or four years, yeah, that'll be an interesting target for the sharks. I feel like those opportunities are going to be there.

I don't think this was necessarily a one and done in terms of they did this with these guys. They traded them and now they're not going to be able to find other players. Like they've kind of shown, I think, already that we should give my career the benefit of the doubt of being able to strategically bring in guys that will still remains to be seen whether they can move. up the standings and become better, but at least guys who are going to be able to play good minutes for them, like that's already kind of been established for me. Yeah, they've exited the play a bunch of ACHELors in your lineup every night stage of the rebuild, right? So that's promising. And some of that is by, you know, stuff like the Walman trade where they got that second round pick and he slots right into their top four or Barclay

Goodrow is on waivers. Okay, yeah, he's overpaid. We don't care. We need NHLers. So I feel like they've been really savvy as far as when they commit to veterans and fill up roster spots with non-future core players. Like Tyler Tofoli, I mean, he's he going to be around and effective by the time that they're actually on like an upward trajectory seriously with Celebrini and Ascarov and Smith. Probably not. But like it seems by all accounts like he's impacting the culture there and he's also making sure that they are, you know, a somewhat respectable NHL team. So I feel like the Mike Greer asset management has just been not necessarily spotless,

but like close to it in terms of taking shots from a, okay, we're going to bring this veteran guy in and he's going to be important. And then taking your shots in terms of retaining salary. And then, okay, flipping picks for other picks and, you know, whether it's the Carlson trade and you, you, you. get a first and grandlin back and then you flip granlin for first like that's two first technically for carlson like i don't know i just feel like they've done such a a good job of juggling the different timelines with an eye on obviously only being competitive down the road versus flipping a switch one

day so yeah it's not at some like this is kind of the easy part in some ways where it's like yeah it's easy to tank it's easy to get that top pick it's easy to suck for a couple of years like it's going to be difficult to get to that next stage and a lot of teams get stuck in this stage. But so far, so good. The other team that I want to lump in here is the Pittsburgh Penguins in terms of the seller's market and sort of asset management here because they essentially dating back to the Marcus Pedersen, Drew O'Connor trade. They turned Pedersen, O'Connor, who are UFAs, Michael Bunting, Anthony Beauvillier, Cody Glass, and Lars Eller into the following. New York's first, two seconds, three-thirds, two-fifths, one-sixth, and Tommy Novak,

which I think is an incredible piece of work by Kyle Dubus, who has been much blind for a lot of the stuff they've done since he's been there, and also just the Penguins in general being bleak at this point of their organizational cycle. You know, Novak's an interesting one. I don't want to spend too much time on it because I think we have other stuff to discuss, but I did want to note that like this is the type of move that I think we expected Kyle Dubus would do more, when he came to Pittsburgh of kind of this like

analytically inclined reclamation project where like under the hood there's a lot of good stuff and so you're buying low and I do feel like I mean he's a 28 year old center making only 3.5 million for the next two years. So I think the likelihood of him being turned into a positive asset in that time is probably pretty high because we're what,

10 months removed or I guess a year removed at last year's deadline from like the market for him being incredibly hot. The predators deciding whether to extend him or whether to trade him for a first and some other assets. And so, yeah, I'm still a Tommy Novak guy. I know that this year has been completely miserable for the Predators.

I feel like Barry Trots's entire season has been that arrested development meme of, like, I've made a huge mistake. And like everything he's done since then has been reflective of that in terms of overreacting and panicking, which I don't necessarily blame that much because the team, the year has obviously been a disaster for them. But just to note on Novak to kind of put a pen in this, Last year, when everyone was so high on him, he scored 18 goals in 71 games, right? This year where the predators were disaster and everyone has soured on him,

he's on pace to score 18 goals over 71 games. So it hasn't necessarily been the same path to get there and the start was miserable, but I do feel like this is the stuff they should be doing. I think my only potential complaint for the Penguins here is that they didn't fully cash in and trade Rickard Raquel as well. And maybe part of that was just held up by extenuating circumstances, of everyone being so tied up on the rantin and stuff that it wasn't able to properly develop. I don't know what happened there.

He's still got five more million for three more years. So it's not necessarily urgent. But I will say he's also a, what, a 32-year-old who's on pace for 38 goals while shooting 17%. So this probably would have been the time to maximize his value, especially when you see what other forwards went for. So I guess that would be my one complaint about what they didn't do. But I do feel like ultimately when you're talking winners and losers, just what the penguins were able to accumulate. in terms of draft capital for guys who obviously aren't plans in their plans for the future was a pretty nice little piece of business by them.

And they've got now, like, it's just looking at up, like, they've got, in the next three years, they have 18 picks in the first three rounds. That's, that, that is, and that, that to me, whether you make all 18, you don't make all, you probably won't make all 18 those picks, but you use them for other pieces. There's the Julian Breezebaugh is getting the ton of credit right now for you use picks for assets because of his public statement recently about it. So to me, that's the big kind of, it's better than the quote-unquote weaponized cap space

that we hear people talk about all the time. But like, this is legitimately an arsenal of picks and assets that you can use and you can either speed up to get something in a trade or you can actually take some swings in the draft. Like that to me, that number right there, that to me is, do you see those returns? right away? No, but I think that's for a team that desperately needed to hard reset its prospect pool and to kind of find a way to start. We don't know what the next phase of the Pittsburgh

Penguins is, right? I think that's one of the great kind of questions is whenever Sid and Malkin are gone and everything, it's like, okay, what is this, the identity of this team going to be? You need as many kind of lifelines to figure that out right now. And I think they've done a really good job of buying the right amount of tickets to at least figure this out. So I'm impressed with that. I completely. And I think Rick, I think just one quick note, but I think Raquel's young enough and is on pace for a career year. We're close enough to the end of the season that I think the value will still be there in the summer. So I wonder if also it was one of those things where it's like, ah, I don't love these packages. We've already done a bunch of stuff

around the deadline. Like maybe this is one guy we hold on to in terms of the summer opening up, or sorry, the cap opening up this summer and some teams getting a little feisty here. Especially when you look at his contract, I believe for those three years, the cap that's $5 million. But as we've noted, I think it's 4.8, 3.6, 3.6 in terms of the actual salary. So obviously incredibly appealing as an asset. All right, guys, let's take our final break here. And then we come back. We'll close up for today.

You're listening to the Hockey, P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. We're back here in the Hockey PEDEOCast. Final segment of today's show. We're doing our trade deadline recap. I want to kind of rapid fire through a bunch of teams. And I lumped four teams in particular together here. Before we went to break, we were talking about the seller's market

and some of the teams that cashed in. I want to talk about some of the teams that either didn't or their inactivity kind of maybe confused us a little bit. And I want to talk about the Sabres with you guys, who are 29th again in point percentage. They played their most recent game. I was watching on Thursday night in Tampa Bay. And John,

I think you can maybe speak to this a bit more because you've been around the team, you've gone to the facilities, you've kind of chatted with them. And so I think you might have some anecdotes, maybe even some handshake rankings in terms of who's got a firm handshake on that team. But it really felt like in watching that game

and watching them this season, especially lately, that pretty much Dahlian and Tage Thompson are like the only two guys that aren't ranging from some level of like either apathy or like being completely checked out. And there was this play in particular. I thought Ray Ferraro,

did a really good job of calling out in real time where Dahlian's like mixing it up after a whistle with both Hagle and Sirelli, two of the biggest dogs in the league. And he's feisty. He's like fighting for his life out there. And you have Jordan Greenway who they just chose to extend for two years instead of trading, kind of just kind of standing there as a bystander. You've got Dylan Cousins in the background, like just not really being involved at all. And it was a really bad look. Obviously their issues extend way beyond that. So I don't want to place too much emphasis on it. But I thought it was sort of, fitting encapsulation of where they're at right now. They chose in the seller's market to sign Greenway to two years to bring back Jason Zucker as well for a couple years. They didn't trade Bowen Byram, who is still going to be an RFA this summer, but you look at his splits with and without Rasmus Dahlian this season, and the 550 minutes he's played without them are pretty harrowing, in my opinion, and backs up the eye test of what you see in terms of how

much Dahlian's been covering for him this year. They didn't trade out. Alex Tuck, who's going to be a 29-year-old expiring contract next year. So they'll still have time to do so, but you would have figured the market would have been quite high on them. They did make one trade, in particular with the senators, in a cousin's for Norris swap that we can talk about here. But I do feel like I get the angle for them of they've been so bad for so long that a lot of the fans probably and maybe people within the organization are viewing it as like,

we don't need any more draft picks. Like, that's not our problem. But I think that's a miscalculation because. As we've seen and as we just talked about, those picks are just a tool, right? You don't actually have to make them yourself to improve your team, even moving forward in the short term. And so that was a missed opportunity and they chose to go in a different direction. What do you think about that, John? Yeah, like, if we can start with the resigning Zucker and Greenway, like I'm a little torn on that as far as they've been the youngest team in the league for a long time.

like I'm talking three or four years. And, you know, they just don't have a ton of veterans. So it's like, okay, Zucker's having a good year. Okay, Greenway is this sort of like glue guy, so to speak. And, you know, when he's healthy, pretty good power forward. So you can kind of talk yourself into those extensions, especially because they're not super long or they're not super expensive. So like in a vacuum, it's fine.

But neither of those guys are going to be the solution there. So it's tough because, you know, there's this, they are this team that, one, you know, are they willing to spend in free agency? That's questionable. Ownership hasn't shown that they are. And then two, are players willing to come there? So that's tough when free agency is not necessarily off the table, but it's going to be very difficult, similar to a Winnipeg in some respects. Although, you know, given all the losing in Buffalo over the last 14 years, definitely a worse situation.

And then you look at the Cousins trade. Like, I have no problem with trading. cousins, especially at a moment in time when there needs to be some sort of shakeup with this group because you commit all this money to this young core and it's clearly something is just not aligning there. But I feel like the trade is just a little strange. So Josh Norris, you know, just an injury-filled career in the NHL. He's a little bit older than cousins. He costs a little bit more. I understand that their contract length are the same. And I just feel like the potential in cousins popping off elsewhere versus Norris' ceiling, it just doesn't add up as a

net positive for Buffalo. And, you know, Gilbert's whatever in terms of trading him to the senators, okay, the second round pick, given how many you've had over the years. But, you know, Bernard Docker coming back as a right-handed shot on your third pair, you know, it's not doing a ton for me. So I just felt like it was an underwhelming trade given you had this, this rare commodity in in Cousins, as much as the stock is down right now, he still has shown enough through, you know, going through the ranks as a draft pick, popping off in 22, 23 as far as having this career year,

and I believe he scored 31 goals as a 21-year-old. And then just going in this sort of, this spin of mediocrity. Like, I understand why that affects your stock, but I feel like there's enough teams around the league that look at Cousins and go, a change of scenery would do him well. And for them to get back,

I would say an underwhelming return, all things considered, is a pretty big disappointment because this was one of their chips that they could play as far as turning a page and not necessarily completely dismantling the core they've assembled, but making some sort of shake-up sooner than later. I do like Norris as a player. I think he's particularly got scoring juice obviously on the power play. Like his shot is very real. And you look at the Sabres continued struggles on the power play where I think they're 27th in the league this year.

and so it's an interesting dynamic of setting up those opposing one-time shots with Tage of the left circle and Norris on the right. I agree with you, though. I'd be terrified of his injury history. I believe he's missed 16, 74, 32, and 8 games over the past four years. I do also wonder this is totally sort of out of left field, but we know that the Sabres have been linked to Lace Peders this season. And I imagine we'll see how the rest of the season goes, but it realistically is. something that Canucks could revisit before his no move clause kicks in on July 1st. And if you're playing sort of the familial lines,

you're kind of like drawing lines between different characters. We do know that Josh Norris is really good buddies with Quinn Hughes from their time on Michigan together. And we know that the Sabres could put together a compelling package for Elias Peders at some point if they so choose. And so maybe this is totally, I'm sure this isn't part of their logic, but just down the line in terms of positioning them better to actually make a coherent package for that. Sean, I think the cousins part

is interesting because I'm with John that like the past two years after he signed that contract, his performance has been inexplicable in my opinion for a player at this age to take as big of a regression as he has. He is two years younger, doesn't have that injury history. He is a little bit cheaper, whatever, 800, $850K or so

for the duration of that deal every year. They do get that extra second as an asset. And so the centers have also been a team while they're fighting to get back in the playoffs and are in a position right now they're 31st in the league in 5-1-5 offense as well

and I just talked about how I like Norris on the power play he certainly has not been helping at 5-1-5 I think he only has 12 5-1-5 points this year now part of that is Travis Green has come in and use them in a very defensively oriented role like you look at his usage and his matchups and its own starts it's pretty heavy

for a youngish center so we'll see if cousins can come in and take on that role or whether they do it a bit more with Pinto instead or Ridley-Greg. But the point stands, like, I think this is kind of one of those classic change of scenery trades. And you talk about a hockey trade, I do, it's certainly not on the magnitude of what we were talking about earlier with two contenders involved in the Randinan trade. But I do think it is a compelling one for all these reasons between these two teams.

I like it because it's two guys who effectively slot the same, but play different roles. And like, I like that. That's the way where you get two guys who, and they're probably just going to take each other's spots in the lineup. And I think it's going to help. Ottawa is going to become a better team at five on five. It's hard for me to defend anything for Buffalo, right? Just to be like, I like, it's, I get, there's a little bit of a change of scenery.

Like John mentioned figuring out the mental gymnastics of how do you figure out, okay, they re-signed Zucker or they re-sign Greenway. And you talk about, oh, they're blue guys. But what glue are they actually hold? But like what pieces are they actually holding together, right? Like for me, Buffalo is the spot where, like, right now, I think they have like, what, $31 million in cap space right now or something like that? Like, like, for me, the Buffalo play is, and I know it's not.

I know it would blow up tremendously. But for me, the Buffalo play would be I would have traded them. I would have traded Tuck. And then you know what? I go and I spend all that money in for agency in the summer and just just go completely bonkers, try to find a couple, try to go old school NBA style, find a couple guys who are like, hey, you guys would never be able to play with your, and you mentioned kind of the little bit of the connection there, but just like guys who are UFAs and be like, hey, I can bring everyone

here like, that's what I just, that's what I want to see Buffalo do, because all of this right now just is, it's just spinning tires right now. now. It's, it's, it's, it keeps them in this spot where, all right, well, hey, you know what, maybe they might be six points out of a playoff spot next year. Like, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's where it just keeps them right now. And I, I just have a hard time, like, good on Ottawa. I thought they didn't, I thought they fixed a little bit of a problem. Buffalo, I just, I can't defend anything they've done. Like, one, one, one, one thing I'll say in defense of Kevin Adams, the GM in Buffalo is he did not trade JJ Peturka, which would have been a tremendous. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. And, and he came out and

said like there's i haven't been shopping him stuff like that like i don't know how much of it is like was driven by by their teams or or or what have you or uh people smelling blood and kind of circling but that would be a massive mistake whereas you look at cousins then it's like the guy's been given a ton of opportunity as the second line center there and he just he wears it like if you're in that room i mean the confidence is shot the sort of it seems like he's in his own head so i mean good for him on a personal level dylan cousins i'm glad that he's able to start new and Ottawa and get right into a playoff race. I mean,

heading into tonight's games, the senators are in a wildcard spot. That's wild. But from the, from the Sabres perspective, I also get moving on. It's just, you would have hoped to get a bit of a better package.

I'm glad you brought that up. I'm okay with, I'm okay with the trade with Ottawa. It's the, it's to me, it's the lack of other things, where I'm just like, it's the,

it's the resigning of a couple guys. It's taking up cap space where it's like, I just, it's, I get, and I know someone, there's some, like, oh, you need veterans. What is this thing you need veterans for right now? Like just, just, just right now, you just, it's, it's just spinning the wheels over and over again. How many times can you go and, oh, we'll re-sign veterans that bring them up. Veterans that lose are still losers.

Like, I just, I don't want to, like, I just, just move on and just try to blow it up and just say, go into the free agency, be like, hey, all right, we've got 25 million to, play with, let's just spend it all here and try a complete hard reset with the pieces we still have. I have just a hard time looking at Buffalo and thinking, keeping anyone in-house aside from those three or four core guys is any part of a solution. I mean, it's indefensible that they're not better than John's Montreal Canadians this year, that they're this bad still after how long they're indefensible. It's indefensible in my opinion. I think, I mean, they've had such a longer runway to figure this out, right? And what we saw for them two years ago to be where they are at now in terms of the spinning the wheels. I think it's a very good point by you, John, though, on the Patyrka

front, because it really did feel like on Thursday night, based on the reporting that the sharks were circling, not the San Jose sharks, although, like, speaking of smart moves, that would be my career move, but sharks were circling in the water around this, right? And he's a 23-year-old UFA. We've seen, I've seen concern. I get it. They're kind of scarred by giving we just talk about cousins, big money, long-term deals to some of these guys coming off ELCs and the consequences of that in terms of them not developing and fulfilling the promise, I think that would be a mistake with Petrika because you look and he's 25th in the league this year in 5-on-5 points per 60. Guys, he's just ahead of, Jasper Brat, Rupé Hins, Austin Matthews.

I think he's an awesome player, and I think every team should be trying to steal him. And so even if an offer sheet does come, I mean, first off, you probably just match it. But if it's in some seven plus million range where you're just like uncomfortable with it, all right, just take the first second and third and do something productive with it to improve your team. Don't trade him for other people's spare parts because you don't want to pay him. It's just absolute nonsense in my opinion. Who knows, though, whether there was any validity to it might have just been either teams putting stuff out there. We got some fun insider wars on Thursday night in terms of refuting reports.

and I had on my list of winners and losers here, I had insiders firmly in the losers camp because it felt like they were just especially obnoxious this year in terms of the process. And specifically, if I never once see someone say this player could either be kept, traded or extended, I'll be happy. I don't ever need to hear that again.

Yeah, we know those are the three options for a UFA that's on the trade market. So the number of times I saw that for a guy like Brock Besser or someone was absolutely ridiculous. And so it felt like the amount of word salad hedging we saw this year from them was so bizarre. And so it got to be better. And so I'm talking winners and losers. I'm including that as well. Yeah, the insider game was we, the three of us had quite a fun back and forth throughout the past couple days of going through a lot of the word salad we saw.

harced on things one way or the other. And just, it's also, it's also funny too to see there would be sometimes where there would be something about someone that was effectively, like you said, oh, they might trade them, they might keep them, they might extend them. We have no idea.

And like, who's to know? And then that, whether coincidence or causation, someone else has a similar thing about the same player where they just maybe say the one other part a little bit louder was like they might keep them they might also trade them it's it was it was just funny to watch just like because I was tracking a bunch of the rant and stuff today right like and that's an organization I have I covered Dallas

club close for a year so I have some ends on that so this morning it was the whole like well we we knew so there was framework agreed to last night, and if the stars can get the extension, a deal will get done. That was the reality from midnight last night until the trade call went through.

It never changed. It was always the entire time it was framework in place, okay, Jim, go work at a deal with me, go rammed. It never changed. The amount of times where we got like, well, I've heard there's a stalemate, we might have to circle back,

we might have to do this. Like, at no point did death, Alice ever walk away from the table. That never happened. And the whole, like, of course, maybe this Carolina would have to consider options. Maybe they just keep their best player. That was, it was, that's just one that I can say because I knew stuff going on the inside for that.

Yeah. But, like, the amount of stuff, like, it's just, there was so much like that, Dimitri going across this deadline of. And part of it was, like, if you talk about, like, how was the sausage made on things, right? where part of it is, well, we've got so much of this job in media, and this is where we get to the part where I once decided to rip newspapers all the time, so we're going to go to a different part of the media. Let's do it again.

Let's get them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But part of this, like, part of this job in media, when it's now, however character's Twitter is now, used to be 140, that was easy to say. Now it's 280 or whatever. and it's when so much of this job is relevance of, hey, I've got this little nugget on a tweet and that keeps me relevant where I can then

be part of the conversation and people keep bringing me up. And that's just what the job has become. I'm not blaming any individual. That's just what the job has become. And it creates a spot where when things are slow like they are, that's why you have to go and be like, well, I'm hearing effectively not. nothing, but I need to find a fun way to say nothing. And that's what the insider game has

become more and more of, especially as like, like for you guys, right? I feel like GMs and teams and stuff like that, they have, in a whole, they've gotten a lot better at just like realizing, you know what, just two people can make a deal. Like you don't need to bring all your other people in. Like I feel there's less leaks because I think GMs are just smarter now. They're like, I've talked to my kids. guy. I've been briefed on this. I have it all on this paper. He's done his job. I don't need to tell him what I'm trying to do, so therefore

there's one less person to leak this out or this player and everything like that. So, it's I... The one that absolutely killed me was, it's impossible to define how many teams are on Miko Randon.

Literally, you're talking. I mean, there's only 31 teams I could potentially, so it's at least 31. There. There's, there. If only they had someone who could define the teams that were involved. And there is a, like, so there are also, there is a, there is a league-wide GM group chat, right? So anytime you're like, oh, man, a team is canvassing the league on something.

It could, it's literally as simple as they have sent a text to the GM group chat. That is canvassing the league. That is the, and if a GM is, if you think, if you're a listener of this show, right, and you think that, well, hey, man, I really wish my team would talk to this team. Any GM that still has their job more than two weeks has talked to every other GM in the last two weeks. That's just the reality. It is the job as much as, now, you might not be good at those conversations, but part of the job is you literally talk to other GMs for a living.

And so when you're going and say, I was like, well, I've heard this team's talked with this team. Well, great. they talked on Tuesday too. I don't even have to. I can say that. I'm hearing Team X talk to Team Y this week. Great. I can apply that to 31 other teams too.

That's how the job of a GM works. Your job is to be an information gatherer. Yeah. That's a fitting conclusion of today's show. John is just nodding his head in agreement trying not to get into trouble. First we came to a newspaper industry last year. John does, I'm in a spot where I don't have a boss who's call me into his office and let me go right now.

So that's why I can be... I mean, the way that I would sum up what you were saying and sort of dumb it down, if you will, is a lot of non-update updates. So it's like, hey, I'm updating everyone on the situation, but there's no new information. It's just, hey, it's two hours later, so I decided to chime in. It seemed like a lot more of that this year for whatever reason. Yeah.

It's a little bit of the bragging that I have someone's phone number type deal, honestly, right? Like, it's a little bit of that where it's like, oh, hey, I have, in my phone, I have the ability to text person A or B. Like, I have that person's phone number. They know I exist. It's a little bit of that bragging in that

reminder that I have this access point that you, that you as the general public don't. And that's so. I know, I'm going to get drop. I'm going to get in trouble for this, so thanks for sending me off on this. No, you're going to be fine. I think it's honestly something that anyone that was following the series deadline

would, uh, would echo. I thought I thought it was an important part of this year's trade deadline. Guys, we did a really good job recap everything. I want to talk about the Red Wings as well because they were kind of mysteriously quiet. Made one strange trade, but we didn't have time for it. We'll circle back that. Same with the Canucks as well, who didn't trade Brock Besser. I've got our pal Thomas Drans on on Sunday and he obviously covers them.

So I'm sure we're going to get into that then. I'll let you two guys plug some stuff on the way out because I know you've been busy. John, you go first, let the listeners know where they can check you out and what you got coming out here. Yeah, I don't know if I have anything specific to plug, but call me on Twitter. It's Mattis John. That's the handle.

That's M-A-T-I-S-E-N, just my last name, my first name. And yeah, always a pleasure coming on the show, Demetri, and especially with Sean for this to be named roundtable or panel or whatever we are. Yeah, for me, I'm looking, I've got to do a couple of things now with Elite prospects guys, so always check them out.

I was pretty, if you're looking for more Dallas stuff, I've been doing more with the All-City Network down to Dallas. We had a pretty, it was pretty cool. We did a live stream going down there today, just live show me and Owen Newkirk and Craig Ludwig just talking stars straight deadline. And we had almost 800 people watching live as it went for over the course of three hours. And pretty cool. So if you're looking for something stars-related and they're going to be pretty good, check that out.

But big thing, just go check out. my substack shapshotshockey.com. Got three or four pretty fun features I've been working on that I basically, as John, you know, you just save them until after the deadline because no one wants to read about silly, goofy stuff right now because they only care about getting their tweets of non-updates until. Well, fellas, thank you for taking the time. This was awesome.

Enjoy this little break here as you can exhale. Enjoy a nice little beer. get a little bit of rest, catch up on your sleep. If you want to help us out, we had a big week here in the Pito. I guess I believe five hours of content. You can help us out by showing some love, smashing that five-star button, join the Discord as well. It was awesome today throughout the day and breaking all these trades down.

Now that all this business is done, we get to the fun stuff, in my opinion, of just watching the games together, especially as they become increasingly important. So we're going to be doing that. And rest assured, the deadline coverage is not necessarily finished here. Even though the deadline has passed, we'll be back on Sunday, as I said. Trance is going to join us for our usual Sunday special and take a couple days to digest and then get back into it and look at kind of where we're at after the dust is settled.

That's all today for today from us. Have a great weekend. And thank you for listening to the HockeyPedioCast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.