The Hockey PDOcast - Breaking down the Tarasenko trade and its impact on the Rangers

Episode Date: February 14, 2023

Shayna Goldman joins Dimitri to help break down the Vladimir Tarasenko trade, and how it'll impact everyone involved.This podcast is produced  by Dominic Sramaty.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEOCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Shane Agoleman. Shane, what's going on? Hey, thanks for having me. So here's the plan for today. We're going to do the belated Vladimir Tarasenko trade breakdown. I know what happened five days ago. It feels like it's been an eternity now at this point with all the other trade rumors that are circulating around the NHL. But, you know, we've had the benefit, I guess, of seeing, him and seeing the Rangers in their new look formation with two games so far under their belts. And I knew I wanted to do this breakdown with you. So I was like, all right, I got

to book Shana for the PDO cast. I'm going to wait until then. So I apologize to all the listeners who have been waiting patiently for it. But you know what? I don't know about you, but I like this trade because, you know, Teresenko in terms of his name brand value and it involving the Rangers is going to, like that connection is going to gather a lot of the sort of like interest or headlines for this trade. But for me, I actually think there's a couple other layers to it that are interesting, especially from the Rangers perspective, in terms of how their lineup shakes out now, that go beneath the surface. And that's what I love deals like this, right? Where it's not just like, all right, there's one player involved. It's kind of like the trickle down effect for it. So

hopefully today we're going to be able to get to all that and provide some context. But I don't know, what were your initial impressions when this trade broke last week? I liked it. You know, I think the Rangers knew what they needed to do, and it's similar to last year. They don't go as crazy in the off season with their moves and with their changes, and they find ways to deal with it at the deadline. Like, let's see how the team cooks on their own and then see how we can add a couple more ingredients to make it all work. Like, that's been the strategy. So off the bat, it was like, okay, this makes sense.

The other part of it is it really does feel like the Rangers management, you know, like when Chris Drey took over, he made a couple moves off the bat. And it feels like he's done everything in his power to undo those moves since. And this felt like one of the final pieces of it because, you know, like the only one that's not going to go anywhere is Barkley-Graud. And, you know, it is what it is with that contract. But the Sammy Blight trade just didn't work out, you know, for one side of it, for the New York side of it. So it just feels like they acknowledge where they've gone wrong. And management's not a good job of acknowledging where they need to go each deadline.

Yeah. I saw someone point out how like there was a meme involving Chris Jury where it's like offseason Chris Jury versus traded line. and Chris Jury are just two entirely different animals. Yeah, completely. It's so true. Okay, well, let's break this down for each party. Let's start from the Tarasenko part of it because I think that's obviously the most interesting component of it.

And, you know, he clearly, to my eye, isn't what he used to be physically, right? At this point, he's 31 years old. He's played like 750 combined regular season and playoff games at NHL level. And I think most importantly, he suffered a lot of upper body injuries over the past couple years, especially most notably the shoulder ones that I think have kind of like zapped him of what his best attribute used to be, which was that just like heavy, deadly wrist shot that he used to have, which was one of the best wristers that I can remember seeing, especially in its heyday. And I'm kind of curious for your take on how much of his dwindling, you know, shot rate over the past

couple years is, can be attributed to that. And maybe if he can get potentially slightly healthier, it could tick back up or how much of it do you think is just kind of like natural age related decline where we see once players start getting into the 30s that it becomes more difficult to get your shot off you're not having as much time and space anymore everything's a bit slow down and then all of a sudden you just aren't what you used to be in that regard how much how do we kind of weigh those two things or is it kind of just a combination of the two and maybe the injuries expedited that process for them yeah it's definitely a combination anytime a player is like dealing with injuries I feel like it exacerbates the aging process.

And the thing with this is, you know, it was getting the shoulder fixed and then it wasn't fixed and then doing it again. So it seems like last year where he was is kind of like the reflection of like what he is at this point in his career. And that's still a good player. But, you know, the shot rate has dropped. The benefit is that the quality shooting is still up and the finishing talent still there. Just not to the same degree as crime Teresanko. And no one can expect it to be at age, you know, 30 plus you can't expect crime anybody. but you can do things to make them, you know, as strong as they can be at this point in their career.

And it feels like St. Louis really figured that out last year. It was put him with someone to be the puck carrier, put him with someone who can find him in the slot. His skill is that he can get to the quality areas of the ice. His skill is that he can shoot the puck and his skills that he can finish his chances, even if it's not to the same degree. So you need someone that can get him to that point. And that's where someone like Robert Thomas came in. You have a center who's really good in transition, who's a great playmaker,

who's one of the best at moving the puck to. to the slot, especially a five-on-five, that's exactly what Teresanko needs to succeed. And then the third piece of that line was Pavlovich, who, you know, we're both big fans of his game. And, you know, he's a very good playmaker who's ticked up his shooting a little bit with St. Louis. This year, it felt like the systems and everything just burning out in St. Louis, you know, wait on him. Bushnevich has been in and out of the lineup with injuries and he's better players. So it's managing all of that and trying to find the true value of Teresanko. So I think for the Rangers perspective, you know, they understand where he is now.

and I think they know what he needs to succeed. I think management does, and that's why they targeted him. They have someone who can do the dirty work back in their own zone to get possession. That's a player like Sabanajad. It's a player like Vincent Trochec. They have someone elite in transition in Artemi Panarin, who ideally he's going to play with long term, you know, the rest of the season, who can get him the puck and find him time and space.

So he just has to play to his strengths in that way. So I think they understand what they need to do to get him where he should be at this point in his career because they have to. to know one health isn't where it is, even if the shoulder is as healthy as it can be at this point. It's not what it was in his prime. And, you know, age-related decline is something you always have to consider. Yeah, I was reflecting on that sort of four-year peak that he had from about 2014 to 2018. I was looking at some of the numbers and he scored 149 goals in his 319 games there. And that doesn't sound all that impressive by today's inflated standards, right? I think that comes

out to like 38 goals per 82 games or something, which like wouldn't even be near anywhere near the league leaders in today's NHL scoring climate. But at that point, only Alex Ovechkin was scoring more than him. And if you look at the shot rates itself, he was averaging over 20 attempts per 60 all the way throughout, never really dip below that. And it was like, Ovechkin, Patcheretti, and then like Jeff Skinner and him. And it was just like the volume there to go along with the efficiency was there. And it just hasn't like this year in particular, it's really plummeted.

And so I'm very curious about how much of that. is an inability to get that shot off because we see that sometimes as players get older, especially a five-on-five, it just becomes more difficult to get that release. And how much of it is sort of like either discomfort or a lack of confidence in his physical capability to hold up and actually do that the way that he would like to or the way that he's used to. So that is certainly something to watch. I think you hit the nail in the head, though, right?

Like for all the concerns about what we've seen from him for the past three or four years, the one outlier is what he did last year, where he scored 30. four goals in 75 games. And part of the recipe for success there was who they put them with. And I think in particular, playing with one of the niftiest playmakers in the game and Robert Thomas, just being able to serve up basically high danger chances for them with regularity on a silver platter, you'd think that that's a successful formula and playing environment that the Rangers would be able to replicate here with Panera.

I know that they moved away from it in the second game and they put D.C. back there and they switched up the combinations. but I do still think that when the chips are down and when it matters most, especially as they get towards a postseason, that's the combination. And I think it'll actually be with probably more likely with Trochec than Zabinajad. But I'm kind of curious to see how all of those pieces shake out in the top six and sort of what formation they wind up settling on. Yeah.

If you looked at last year, it wasn't just that he was scoring at a high rate, but at five on five, he was really highly ranked in slosh shots per 60. And it's because he could, one, get to the area at the ice to have someone, so, you know, serum up those passes. So that's absolutely the formula for success. And it's going to be interesting to see how his shot rate does or doesn't change because if he plays with Panera and you expected that a shot rate would go up because he's going to be the shooter on that line.

That's it. That's the end of conversation. He's the one expected to do so. And we know that volume shooters tend to age better than snipers. And right now the shot rate is down and snipers don't age as well. So those are definite concerns. But yeah, I agree with you. I think that they tried out loading up the top line.

and it's something they were doing before the trade two. It's Abedad and Panarin. There are two players who generally don't play together at five on five unless the team's losing in the third period, then that's a match that tends to get put together. It has since the David Quinn days, you know, in the third period, you make that adjustment. I don't think that's a long-term answer at all,

because I think you need Abanajat to be the one to handle some of the tougher minutes. I think that he's the one that tends to go up against top forwards, and you can't put Panera in that situation because it doesn't help the team if you're two top forwards, your two most offensively inclined forwards are in those minutes. It helps to split them up. And there's a different conversation to be had, whether Zabana and Jen Carter are the ones to take it on. And if anyone else in the lineup can even handle it. But I think you have to free up Panarin as much as possible.

I think with Trochechek, it's been interesting because when Trochuk and Panarin are put together in the first place, they tend to score a lot. And then we see it kind of fade out. And everyone calls for them to be moved apart. And so we see them get reunited and look what happens. But I think, you know, both players have a little bit more perspective on what the team. is at this point in the season. Trochec knows the Rangers a bit more. So we'll see if that combination has a little bit more longevity to it. But if you have a shooter and it's not

supposed to be Trochec in its entirety, you're not expecting it to be Panera and Playmaker, Trochec, the shooter, whoever else has, you know, a two-way presence that you have a different look completely. So now you can go Panera and Trochec and Tarasenko. And I think that's the right fit for the rest of the lineup. But I think it's the right fit for each of these players individually because you have true roles. You have Trochuk who I think can play to his strengths, which isn't being that fleshy player. It's being that two-way stability in between them.

So I think that's ideal. And then, you know, Teresenko can get to work and Panarin can do his thing, which is the most ideal part of it all. Well, and something else to note that I thought was interesting was if you looked at Corey Schneider's tracking from this season, with everything else kind of falling apart and him not scoring and all the concerns about the shot rate and everything,

one thing that Teresanko actually did remain very good at is his ability, particularly in transition and on the rush, to get high danger opportunities, both in terms of him setting them up for teammates and him being the trigger man on them. And when you think about the Rangers, I know they've gotten better or more well-rounded at 5-1-5 this season compared to last year at times when they were struggling. But still, it feels like their bread and butter is that ability to, as soon as they sense a little opening to counterattack, they quickly. turned it into an odd man rush, right? And so that can be so frustrating for some of these position heavy teams. I think that's why the hurricanes at times have really struggled with them because it seems like they have the puck in the offensive zone and they're just getting all of these shot attempts off in succession. And then the Rangers, the second they snip an opportunity to get out in transition, quickly convert on it and wind up creating much more than the hurricanes did in all that time

they had the puck. And so we already saw it in his debut, right, where I forget who in the crack and it was, was a defenseman who kind of just sent an errand pass and just out of nowhere, the Rangers quickly jumped on it, turned it into this like quick little three on two, and it wound up resulting in Teresanko's tap and go out with beautiful Panarin pass. And so if he's still able to, even if the shot rate doesn't necessarily come back up, if he's able to retain that utility and transition as kind of a finisher off the rush, playing with Panarin, I think that's exactly what the Rangers kind of want from them moving forward. Yeah, absolutely. I think it was Ryan Donato, too, in that play. And, you know, if you're Ryan Donato and you're facing Panarin's advantage at and Teresenko, I mean, most what I know what to do in that situation, most of find themselves in trouble too. But yeah, that's exactly it because we've seen it in the past. It's Panarin and Strom off the rush, or maybe it's going to be Panarin and Trochec off the rush. They need someone with a little bit more infund on their shot. And that's Tarasenko. So, you know, it definitely makes sense because they have to take advantage of those opportunities when they get it if they're not the best five on five team. And, you know, they can find a way to try to sustain.

it after that, you know, ideally if Trocheck can maybe be a little further back and you can have Teresanko as the shooter on that rush chance, maybe it's going to help them extend like zone time just a little bit more and, you know, get their five on five play to be a little bit more dangerous. And yes, it's better than last year, but the bar is very low in that regard. But it is interesting too. Like, you know, with Panarin, we look at him last year and we see how his five on five numbers really slipped. And I think it showed just how much like the center alone couldn't, you know, be the lone player

for Panarin to play with. And when they added Andrew Cop, we saw his game really change and really pick up because now it's like a more balanced line instead of just having that two-way supporting player, whatever you want to call it. You know, so this year too,

like I think this might be what can take Panarin's game up a notch because while we see him collecting points at a high clip, the five-on-five play hasn't always been there the last two years. And yes, there's going to be some defensive, you know, concerns on this line with Teresanko. That's going to be true.

It was true before it's true or now. now, but I think that this might be what can give a little more offensive pop at five on five at the very least, which is, you know, all that you can hope for in a sense from this line. Yeah, I was going to say so far, obviously very small sample size, very early returns. I'm sure there's going to be an acclamation process as well, right, because it is a big change. Teresanko spent his entire career playing for one team and all of a sudden midseason gets moved this. And I think that's part of the motivation for the Rangers to make the move when they did to give themselves more of a runaway for that process to happen, as opposed.

to waiting until March 3rd and then trying to jam everything in in basically a month. But Tarzanikos played 26, 5-5 minutes in his two games. And the Rangers have one shot on goal in that time. Now it was a goal. So that counts all the same. But they're getting out shot at 1 in those minutes. And so I think trying to kind of thread that needle between, I think they can afford to, you know, lose the possession battle and even give up quite a bit

defensively because they have Ewerscherkin and because of that counterattack game that I said that they have. And so if they're able to just be more efficient on the shots they do get, I think they'll live with that. But it's certainly something to watch for because at some point, if it goes too far the other direction, and they're just getting completely caved in, then you might see kind of some unease or some nervousness from Gerland

and his staff to make a change in that regard. Yeah. And they're not the best team at adjusting anyway. So that's like another issue for them right there. But yeah, with, you know, initially it was Panerian, Zabandajad and Teresanko and then you see Kreider back there. It's just not the perfect combination that you could have. And you think of the usage, you know,

Teresanko be exposed to those minutes and things like that. And, you know, now it's pretty obvious which line's going to have your best shooters. It's the, you know, Zabandat and Terran line. That's something that I think can be targeted by top defenders a little bit easier than you don't have to worry as much about the Panarin line. And maybe, you know, that helps free up Panarian. But again, who's finishing his chances if he's not the one taking the shot, which he was the last game, and that's not something we should be accustomed to.

Yes, he's picked up his shooting a bit in New York, but he's not going to be a primary shooter on a line ever. So I think if you figure out that balance, you're going to help the deployment against. You're going to help, you know, the balance within. And that's going to help with that possession battle conversation too. It helps to have Zabana Jed be the primary shooter on the line that he's on. It helps to have Teresanko be the primary shooter on the line that he's on. It helps to have Panarin paired with the primary shooter. So it's like all of those things, all those pieces they're going to figure out in time. And now they get an opportunity to do so out west on the road when they're not controlling

the matchups as much. And I think that's going to help them not overthink it a little bit more too. Well, you know, when I mentioned at the top that I think there's layers to this, what I was sort of referencing was I think that we shouldn't overlook the potential for the Rangers to get value from this trade simply through addition by subtraction. because for an organization that's had, do you think it's safe to say that the Rangers have had a complicated or tenuous relationship with analytics and using it to help guide their personnel decisions over the past couple of years

to say it generously? Here's the list of their worst players by 5-1-5 expected goals here this season. Dryden Hunt, who they waived. Ryan Reeves, who they traded. Ben Harper, who just lost his spot in the lineup as the third pair left defensive. Mennico Mikola, who was also in this trade, and Sammy Bway, who was traded in this deal. And then you could also, Libor Hayek is slightly higher up on the list this season, but in the previous years, you could make an argument that he was like one of the worst players based on

analytical performance or based on underlying numbers in the entire league. And so I think the concept of sort of like the weak link theory of like, you're only as good as your worst players or your lowest players on the depth chart is really interesting. here because the Rangers for whatever reason have always kind of had this commitment to the bit of like somehow analytically having the lowest performing third pair or fourth line. And not the Niko Mikoa is necessarily Bobby Hoare or anything, right? But when you're replacing Libor Hayek's minutes and you're replacing Ben Harper's minutes with someone who can at least be competent, I think that's huge, especially in the playoffs

where every little exploitable weakness matters. And you mentioned kind of being on the road. and how not having control the matchups can actually be a bit of an advantage of the Rangers here. And there's most recent game against the Hurricanes, we saw that third pair of Brayden Schneider and Nicomikola be on the ice for like six minutes against Sebastian Ajo's line, I think, which was like the most common matchup for them.

And it did perfectly fine. And I think you'll take that any day of the week, right? And so not that I'd expect them to always kind of hold their own in matchups like that, but I think replacing what could arguably be your weakest links in your lineup up with at least just like average players is an underreported or I guess an underappreciated component of this trade, which I think that I actually pay massive dividends for the Rangers moving forward. Yeah, the Rangers, it's really important for it because like with every team, with every coach,

you're going to have favorites. You're going to have players that are there that the coaches are going to overuse absolutely or they're going to address that maybe they shouldn't. That happens. In New York, it's a little bit more emphasized because a coach does find. himself to be a talent evaluator and that talent evaluation is not very good. And it's something that we know about him throughout his 10 years elsewhere. You can look at Florida.

You can look at Vegas. It's all the same. That you have to, you can give players to a coach and hope he's going to use them. But in some cases, and Galant is especially true. He's not going to if he doesn't want to. And if he finally does throw management of bone and play a player, it might not be in the ideal position because you can easily say, look, I was right. They played on the fourth line. They didn't do so well. And then they can continue

to roll through with their guys. So management at a certain point does have to step in and take away the toys and say, you're not going to have Ben Harper to play on the third pair. Here's a different option. And here's a player you're actually going to be willing to use. Here's someone with size and strength. So we already saw you don't want to use Nils Longquist in that position. They got rid of him. They already saw that just Zach Jones wasn't going to be used in that position. So here is someone you would be willing to use. That's a middle ground between what we are looking. for on that third pair and what you're willing to use. And when you go up front, you know, Ryan Reeves was playing games a little bit more often than maybe he should have the ice time.

This year wasn't there as much for him last year, but, you know, the efficiency in his game wasn't either. So management moved on from him. Sammy Blight, it didn't work out. It never worked out. They tried to make it happen. It just didn't. And you could see, well, if he threw a hit, he would probably maintain his minutes for the next game. And that was, you know, effective enough for him versus someone who could really thread the needle. So taking him out of the equation outright is what management I think has had to do to like mitigate the damage because these weak links keep getting into the lineup, whether they're in key roles higher, you know, than they should be, which again, we've seen at times. You look at BC and Barkley, your Joe getting top six minutes

or outright in the lineup at all. It's a big difference. So it's, it's intriguing because I think in this case, management does have to kind of overstep. And I don't even think it truly is overstepping, but literally take these players out so they can't be in the lineup. If they're there they're going to be used. And if not, they have to be replaced with someone that the coaches are actually willing to use that hits both what everyone wants. It's a little bit chaotic, but that's the vibe I'm getting. Yeah, for sure.

They're like, hey, Gerard, how about this instead? And then he's like, all right, well, I guess, yeah. If you put it that way, I mean, we saw the value it for them firsthand last year where Patrick Nambus minutes were just killing them, especially down the stretch. And then for all the trade deadline moves they made, there were certainly like COP and but Toronto were very impactful. But a very underappreciated one was adding Justin Braun because it allowed them to move away from those Mnith minutes

and not that Braun was killing it himself, but it was still a net positive, right? And if you kind of map out the blueprint or the roadmap for what path they're going to take if they want to get back to the Eastern Conference final, it will almost certainly be some combination of either the Devils in round one and the hurricanes in round two or vice versa, right? And both those teams, especially in the Hurricanes case,

have incredible depth. Like they have all the way through all three pairs, all four lines. They have players who can skate and can play with a certain level of skill. And so you're not afforded these minutes where you can just afford to throw your depth players out there and just kind of punt to shift.

You need to make the most of them or at least kind of hang on. And so in this case, maximizing every single one of those lineup spots, I actually think does matter. It won't prove the difference between winning a Stanley Cup or not, but it will make a difference

over the course of a seven game series because there's that cumulative effect of if you just keep losing all of these shifts even by small margins it really does add up yeah absolutely now you know you have the trickle down effect in your lineup elsewhere too because we all knew that vitalia craft self is not going to get top six minutes in new york it just isn't happening this year he's not you know he's not going to be using that capacity um but if you bring in tarasanko it's going to guarantee that he is so now you have the trickle down effect from the players that we're stepping up in that role are going to be played in, you know, lesser capacities. They're going to get fourth line roles, you know, in a perfect world, the way the lineups deployed, things like that, you have players

like Barclay, Joe, or Jimmy V.C. One of two has to be on that fourth line, whether it's with someone like Julian Gautier, you know, to round it out. But those are the players that now everyone else is sliding down the depth chart. And that's exactly what happened at the deadline last year. If you put Cop in, you're guaranteeing top six minutes for him. Frank Fitzrono was a first-line player, Chris Kreider and Mika Zabandajad. You had that, you know, depth right there. That forced everyone else lower down the lineup. The problem was the fourth line was still completely and totally a weak link.

And if the top six wasn't on the ice, you know, the only line is really getting meaningful minutes. You weren't going to get much of anything. But this year it's a little bit different because the third line, the kid line has developed so much and progressed so much that you could in theory have three very good lines. And you could even limit the usage of the fourth line this time around. and maybe you don't want to if they can add one more depth forward. Like it's going to change the entire composition of that forward group versus what they had last year. And it's going to help them manage the matchups against teams like New Jersey and Carolina

a lot better. And the same is true on defense because we saw, you know, what we're seeing so far from Mikala, from Schneider. Like, is it perfect? Absolutely not. And are there things to work on in that regard completely and totally? But if you can trust them in those minutes versus someone like Ben Harper

versus someone like Nemith from last year, It's really a game changer. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I was looking at the minutes that Aneran has played over the course of his Rangers tenure, and it's kind of some of the linemates that they've trotted out with them. And it really has been just like a recurring theme where they've almost been one scoring wing or short

for an extended period of time. And I think part of it is because Jared Galangis has refused to give crafts off a long look there. I think that would have solved a lot of problems. But you look at it, it's like a lot of minutes with Barclay Goodroll on the wing or Dryden Hunt or Julian Goce in past years. And even Jimmy, Jimmy Visi for as well as he's played so far. And, you know, in the most recent game against the hurricanes,

they put him on Panarin's line. They move Taranenko off of it and they explode and kind of tilt that game in their favor. And I think all of that has been filed money for them. But like I said, I still think when you get into a playoff setting, having a player with Teresanko's at least theoretical scoring touch or ability to convert on those opportunities and make sure that you're maximizing everything Artemi Paneran creates through his playmaking. is huge. You don't want to get into that setting where you're asking players who are probably

much more either four or five players or bottom six players to be playing these meaningful scoring roles. And then when they're not converting on the opportunities being like, ah, so unlucky. It's like, no, this was something that probably could have been avoided if you actually took the time and effort and resources to make sure it didn't happen. Yeah, exactly. It's like the flesh and the pan of it does happen, not if it doesn't happen. And that's the thing. Like, you know, if a combination works like the VEC combination, did with the Panarin and Tro check for a game. Absolutely keep them there. Roll with it. But that's not what you want to trot out for a series. It's not what you want to try it out for an entire playoff

from because chances are it's not going to be as effective as it could be if that line was truly balanced and completed. I still think this team has more to do. Not much. And I like that they made the move early because it gives them time to really assess like the entire makeup of the lineup. But adding one more forward would be a difference maker, whether it's someone that can replace crafts off as that skilled winger presence or if it's someone who's a true fourth liner, a true bottom six player with actual upside, you know, a Tyler Mott-like player that they acquired last year. Like that might be what they need to. And then if you need in certain situations to move a player up, it's the final minutes of a game and you're defending a lead or, you know,

Zabandj, John and Criter really struggling with that top competition that they're facing like they did with Sydney Crosby and you could slot someone higher and say, okay, you can play there if it's a B.C. If it's a Tyler Mott, you can play there and complete the line and kind of help them do what they need for like these certain situations, that's fine. Anytime you have options that you have that versatility to make the changes, it's a good thing to have and that's something they didn't. Last year before the deadline, they absolutely didn't have those options. The lineup didn't work.

There weren't many options to really slot higher in the lineup that made sense. So the more they bolster their depth, the more versatility they're going to have, which is what you need in this league. Yeah. Yeah, that's really well said. Okay. Well, Shana, let's take our break here while we still get before we get two in the weeds with this trade.

and then when we come back, we'll keep breaking it down. You are listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliot Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back in the HockeyPedio cast with Shana Goldman. Let's keep breaking it down. I have a few more notes from the Rangers perspective,

and then we can kind of put a bow on the trade from the blue side of things. but I'm not sure how much of an impact that's going to have moving forward. But, you know, we talk about the 5-1-5 struggles for the Rangers. Part of what allowed them to sort of work around that last year was just how dominant their power play was, right? I believe they, I think they were fourth in goals per 60 last year, especially throughout the regular season. This year, they're at 14th right now.

Now, they've actually, you know, performed pretty well in the past couple of games. It was like 18th or 20th before that. But their first in high danger chances generated, their first expected goals generated. And for them to reach the kind of where they want to ultimately get to, it's pretty clear that they're going to need to get that firing on all cylinders again. And so I was looking at it a bit deeper. And, you know, their top combination in terms of like when they have Zabinajad and Crider

and Fox and Panarin out there has actually been pretty good, like not league best, but certainly good enough. It's actually when that second unit has come on that they've really struggled to generate much. And I'm not sure if you noticed this, but in the first game against the Cracken when Teresenko made his debut, there were at least a couple sequences there where the second unit they trotted out

was Teresanko occupying his right wing, which is a natural spot. And then they were flipped out Drewbuzz minutes at the point with Keondre Miller. And all of a sudden, you watched the way that unit was moving the puck, and instead of just Keondra Miller hammering shots from the point,

they were like very methodically and decisively moving the puck around, getting shots from high danger areas. And I don't even think they wound up scoring on a couple of those opportunities, but it looked much more threatening. And I was like, all right, now they're really working with something. And I'm not sure if that's ultimately something they're going to settle on moving forward. It seems like they're committed for a variety of reasons to have Intrubah out there,

despite how inefficient it's been. But I love the idea of all of a sudden maximizing those minutes because it's going to be tougher, as currently constructed for TARC, go to make an impact and have powerplay utility with all the players they have on the top unit. but if they can sort of on the margins improve that second unit with Teresenko and potentially with Keondry Miller manning the point, all of a sudden now you're getting really back to being a very dangerous group that I think does make a difference for this Rangers team. Yeah, you look at the power play this year and like Vincent Schroch is the only difference

on Power Play 1 and he's replacing Ryan Strom and I think he does have a better shot. It's a little bit quicker to take the shot and he's a little bit better, you know, in that two-way role than Ryan Stracham. But, you know, first of all, it's a little bit predictable. unit. Everybody knows what they're going to do. Second of all, it's very slanted towards right-handed players. And then if the first unit doesn't click, the second unit generally starts on the fly. They don't get much opportunity to do anything. And it's true about the point versus Kandre Miller. So I think this is going to force the team to use PowerPlay 2 a little bit more. And I am

in like the camp of leaning on PowerPlay 1, having your best players deployed there. But I think there's reason to have a second unit. Like they exist for good reason. Not every team needs to go 90% usage on their top unit. If they can still go 65% on their top unit, that's something. So I think having Teresanko on it, and now Trocheque does make a lot of sense, and it's going to force them to use that unit a little bit more. And it helps the top unit because you bring in a player like Philippeatel who really doesn't get much power play opportunity. It's something in New York that gets talked about constantly. Heidel Lafranier and Kako really get powerplay one time when those are the minutes that would probably boost their confidence and probably help them succeed even more

at five-on-five. We have Heedle there, who's someone who's very, who's very, good at generating high quality chances and is left-handed shot. So you have a little bit more variety now for PowerPlay 1 that I think is going to benefit them. And then on PowerPlay 2, you have Teresanko's lethal shot when he gets the opportunity to use it. You have Trocheck, who's good at the dot and, you know, that two-way supporting player. It's going to open up more minutes and more time for Lafaneer and Kako because now the coaches are more willing to use it. So it's all about what happens back at the point. I think it's been pretty obvious most of the season that Kanger Miller should have been there. I think after the way he ended last season, he was really

picking it up offensively at five on five. It only made sense for him to start taking that roll over from Jacob Truba. At times, you know, we saw Zach Jones there last year, but generally speaking, it's Truba who is on the second unit. And yes, he can shoot the pocket ton, but you need someone who's a little bit quicker in transition. You need someone who has the reach of Miller. I think, you know, if you're one man back at the point, I think it helps to have someone like Miller there because we see how good he is at holding the blue line because he has, you know, that reach. And we've seen him improve with, you know, his skating in tight to speed that up a little bit more. And I think that's going to help in the situation.

So I think a long-term option is Miller. We did see them shift back to Truba a bit last game. And even at times going with both when it was that late in the power play, but rolling with Miller a little more consistently, getting that unit out there more consistently and giving them a chance to develop together and find that chemistry is really going to help this team. Yeah, I'm with you. They definitely should be leading on Power Play 1 for the majority of the opportunities. But there's occasions where either Panarin or Zabinajad or the one that was out there and drew the penalty. And then all of a sudden, they're pretty tired to start it.

And you don't want to be just punting the first 30 to 40 seconds of that, of that man advantage because it's a very inefficient setup for you. So I like that quite a bit. I mean, I had a whole section that I wanted to do on Keondra Miller. I guess maybe this is a good segue into that now. I do still have a few more thoughts on the trade. but I've been so impressed with him this season. I wrote a big feature on him a couple weeks ago. But defensively, what a destructive force he is, right,

where you can tell the other team has a plan or something they want to do and they almost can't account for the fact that he is just going to single-handedly erase that option for them. Like he's mastered the art form of the NBA chase down block, right, where someone seems to have a breakaway. And it's like, oh, I'm going to go in alone here for a great opportunity. and then all of a sudden, Kandria Miller just comes flying into the frame out of nowhere with his explosive skating and his reach

and just knocks it away or completely diffuses the situation. And so what he's been able to do in that regard where I believe he's already like a top 15 or 20 player in terms of even strength defensive impact, while also coming around offensively now, I think is highly encouraging. Like what have you seen from him offensively? Because, you know, that's clearly been the work in progress.

I think already he's very clearly like a top pairing, potentially even number one defensive defender, especially in the modern form, offensively clearly has the tools and the skills and you see it in flashes where pretty much every goal he scores seems to be of the highlight variety. But yeah, I think like there's still plenty more there. I truly believe like this is the type of player that you want to bet on long term and invest in because it's going to come. Like for me, it's a matter of of when, not if, because I do think the ability is there. And partly because of the circumstance, right? Like he's, he's playing on a team where

Adam Fox gets to freelance a lot in the offensive zone when he's out there. Then when Miller comes in, he's kind of asked to do an entirely different thing. And for the most part, the Rangers don't have the most creative offensive zone set plays, I'd say. It's a lot of like the forwards working down though

and kind of them doing a lot of the heavy lifting while the defensemen just sort of stationarily hang out at the point. So I do think there's a lot more there. And considering he just turned 23, it really seems like once he puts it all together, like he's going to be so, like such a valuable player that this is the time to buy in. And I think like,

I'm very curious to see what they do with his extension this summer. But if I were them, I'd be angling very hard for like the full eight year deal to just get him for the rest of his 20s. Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting for him. Like this is someone who converted from forward to defense. So it doesn't surprise me that, you know,

his rookie season at the NHGEL level, we were seeing him focus more on defense. That's the role he's here to play. that's the role that he has to focus on more because that's not his natural position. And I think you have offensive skill and you can refine it. And I think that defensive structure can be taught. So it was just keeping up with that and keeping up at this level. But as, you know, he's progressed, we see a little bit more confidence in him.

And I think anytime we could look at his game and go, well, this is something he needs to work on he has. You look at, you know, the first season. And it's like, look at what he can do with his foot speed and look at what he can do with his reach. But when he was in tight, he was getting flat footed all the time. I mean, we could see these little movements weren't really working out for him, and that's where he was getting beat. That was something he outright worked on the next summer, so he was better prepared for the next season.

So I think it's just a matter, you know, the fundamental skill is there. The athleticism is there, and it's finding the building blocks elsewhere to round out his game. And I think he's really worked on that. You know, this is someone who we see ranking so highly in blocked passes and in checking. And he's finding ways to use his size to his advantage, too. So now it's not just winning the puck battle and getting the puck on a stick, is that he has the confidence to skate up the ice, something we know he's very good at doing

when he's skating the other way to catch up to opponents, but now he can lead the way and break the puck out of his own zone. He has the confidence to make these highlight real plays. It's really unbelievable that every goal is at the caliber that it is when it's coming from a defenseman, it's even more special. But, you know, to make these crisp passes to set up his teammates, to skate up, you know, all the way up the wing and move the puck back and just start up, you know, a cycle play.

there's a lot more potential here that he's just starting to get, you know, fully into. And I think it started last season and then the season he didn't have that the most offensive pop. But then as the season's gone on, like you can see the confidence growing again. He's getting right back into the swing of it. What hurts his case, like you mentioned, is that Adam Fox is going to get like the primary minutes, the primary matchups, everything like that that's going to put him in a position to succeed. But on the flip side, Adam Fox and Ryan Lingren are the ones that take on top competition, generally speaking.

You know, we saw when Brian Lingran was injured last year in the playoffs. It was Truva and Miller trying to take that on in Pittsburgh, and they were getting caved in their own zone. So there was no opportunity to really break out. But the second Lingren was back, it kind of frees up Truba and Miller for minutes that are more fitting for them because Truba has some weaknesses on both ends of the ice. But what felt originally like this was Trubba's pair has really become Miller's pairing. Miller's the driver. He's the one leading the way. So we're just seeing all of this progress that the Rangers should want to extend.

long term now. And that's another reason I think they went for a rental. So they don't have to worry about long-term costs that they would with any other acquisition with term on it because they don't know how exactly they're going to proceed yet with Heedal and with Miller. And these are two players who've earned lengthy, expensive contracts. So the Rangers should get him all they can because it's just, you know, the price is just going to go up because we're seeing and build on his game every, you know, through chunks of the season and then from year to year, you can see it even more. Yeah, I should say, like, Miller right now is tied in points with Thomas Shabbat, Mo Cider, and Shane Gostis Bearer. So it's like, it's silly to say that, oh, you should buy them now before the offensive production reaches his other actual contributions and value.

But it does feel like there is still that added layer based on his involvement and based on his usage. You know, like you watch the play where I think it was Panarin's third goal, the hatcher goal against the hurricanes the other night. And Sebastian Ajo looks and probably feels like he's going to have a chance to come down. the right wing and do something dangerous. And Miller just basically angles them to the boards and pressures him into making a turnover. And then the Rangers are able to go back the other way. And so his capability to fuel what the Rangers want to do in transition. And that way is so special.

And I do think, yeah, getting him for eight years now, like even if it costs a bit more upfront is a very smart piece of business because he's only going to get more productive, more expensive and more valuable with each of those years. and that's a great point to kind of bring it back to this trade where I think the rental component of this where they didn't take on any future money with both Teresenko and Mikola is huge, right? Because you do have to budget for both Miller's extension and Heedles and Lafraniers, although I think you can probably justify going to bridge more with him. But that's sort of like a, that's a feature, not a bug in this trade for the Rangers, right?

Like, I think it makes a ton of sense for them. And I imagine it's almost kind of paralyzing right now because you can't, while you are, considering yourself a cop contender and you want to go for it and maximize your window to win right now, it's kind of like hanging on the not so distant horizon and you almost need to make every decision based on the kind of looming threat of that. Yeah, the Rangers are a team that like they're different from a lot of contenders in that they sign their core before they were ever a playoff team. The last big contract they signed were out of Fox and Mika's advantage of others before they've

return to the postseason. So it's different from some contenders that, you know, maybe they have the bridge deals that end midway through and this is a team that went to the conference final and now they're going to ask for more. They actually won a championship like Tampa Bay and we're going to see cost rise even more. Andro Gatsilefsky got a great extension, you know, because of his postseason success, I'm sure, was, you know, that was a key part of it along with his regular season play. Braden Point definitely gets paid more because of what he can do in the playoffs. And you look to a team like the Chicago Blackhawks. Their players make a lot more money because they have championship brings to their name. So the Rangers did slightly overpay a lot of their core players.

And it's something that you can manage when you overpay good players versus bad players, but it does add up. So it's something that you have to take in stride. And, you know, it's going to factor into the rest of the decisions. This isn't a team with the low cap cap at the beginning of their playoff window. It's a team that has to constantly keep the salary cap in mind, constantly worry about rising costs. And it stresses why it's so important for teams to maximize entry level talent when they have it like i don't know it's how like crafts off and it's just as why player development is so important because those are the players that you need to be a part of this that's why lap an year's growth is going to be super important in capocco because they're the cheaper talent to compliment you know

the expensive core talent and already players like miller are showing why they should be a part of that core talent and should be paid as such yeah yeah okay well is there anything else from the rangers perspective here like i think we sort of hit all the on ice elements i do i obviously i would preferred Timel Meyer as a player for them, a significantly more impactful player at this point of his career. I think the acquisition costs, relatively speaking, though, reflects that, right? Like, I think the Rangers are understandably scared off by how many contenders are lining up with serious offers that probably have more futures or more meaningful prospects and high

picks that they're comfortable trading at this point than they are. And so acknowledging that, they were like, all right, well, let's strike here and go with Tarasenko. And ultimately, I'm fine. that when it seems like the most logical other alternative would have been Patrick A and I much prefer this. So ultimately like it's tough to be too upset about it. But I don't know. Is there anything else from the Rangers that you think kind of warrants consideration or discussion here for this trade? I just, uh, the only thing we didn't touch on, I just think it's a good opportunity

for Mikola. I think that he's someone who has been in a challenging spot in St. Louis. Like he had to step up into the top pair of Perico at times last year because Scandella wasn't up to the task or they had injuries to manage. And I don't think we've seen his best at the NHL level yet. The results aren't great so far. But I think, you know, usage and systems have a lot to do with it. So it's always curious to see how someone does in another system. Like we've never seen Sarah St. St. Louis. But the same goes for me. Like I'm really curious about like how his game shapes up, not in St. Louis. Yeah. Yeah. I think, well, especially considering the minutes he's taking that they would have otherwise used, I think it's only onward and upward. Um, you know,

from the blues perspective here, I guess quickly just a touch on that. I'm perfectly fine with it, too. Like I just said that I like this from the Rangers perspective. I saw some people being like, oh, well, I can't believe this is all the blues were able to get for a player of Vlad Tarasenko's, you know, stature or I guess name brand value or what their perception of what Teresanko is as a player at this point. But I just feel like ultimately, what was the market really like, like where teams lining up, even at 50% retention to pay a premium for a 31-year-old winger who has, 10 goals this year. Like I think getting a first and what will almost certainly be a third back in the future

for him is ultimately a perfectly fine price. Like I think it's very reasonable. So from the blue's perspective, I actually don't mind it quite a bit, especially when you view it in the grand scheme of things as like the first domino before we see what else they get back in return for Barbachev, for Ryan O'Reilly, even for a player like Noel O'Chari.

Like it seems like they're going to be able to do pretty well in terms of cleaning up as a, all-out seller of this deadline. Yeah, I think the only way they would have gotten more for Teresanko would say a team like the devils goes for Tim Omeyer and then the Rangers have to respond. I think then like it ups the ante a little bit more. But you have to hope that they don't look elsewhere. You have to hope that they aren't the team in on Timo Meyer. So you're running that risk. And the other part of it is that Sarasango had a no trade clause.

These players control their futures. And it's, you know, he can't, he can't say if the, if the Blues say they want to trade him, we all know that he wanted out of St. Louis for some time, it's going to limit their options. of where he goes if it gets leaked anywhere, you know, that he wants X team, that team all a sudden has all the leverage in the world and he says, well, he wants to move. You want to move him. We know that you want to get assets back for all your pending free agents. Like, so do I think if I were St. Louis, would I have wanted more back for him, especially considering the salary retention aspect of it? Yes. And I think when you package assets up sometimes, which they did by leveraging their cab space and by moving Mekla in addition to Teresanco, you know, can you

shortchange yourself? Yes. But do I think they were going to get that much? more than this? No, maybe they could have waited, but we don't know what the trade situation was for Tarasanko. We don't know if he would have accepted it anywhere else. And we don't know how the Rangers would have responded if they didn't get him. Would they have been more all in on Patrick King? Would they have been more all in on Tim O'Meyer? That's tough to say. So, you know, I think for the blues, he was never going to be the one that's going to bring back as much, even though he has the name brand that other players don't. It's going to be players like Ryan O'Reilly. People want center depth of there in the playoffs and it's going to be players like barbachev who i think he's going to bring back way more than he

should because that's the utility forward everybody wants everyone wants their own version of blake coleman and things like that so if you see someone like you know barbachev on the market teams jump at him especially because he can play center or wing yeah yeah when it's a scoring wing or like teres ankle there are enough options for other teams to pivot to that i would be like concerned to play a game of chicken and wait until the last second especially with his no move clause you really kind of block yourself in. I think this is the most like silberest of silver linings for the blues because it's, it's been a pretty miserable season. And, you know, I've been on record. Like, I'm so disappointed with with what their offense was this year after how special they were and how fun they were to watch

last year. But if there is one silver lining, it's like they entered this trade deadline with all of these sort of high leverage impending UFAs who you almost certainly don't want to keep on their next contract. But if they had been better, maybe they could have, you know, talk themselves into, all right, well, let's make one more run or let's sort of try to sneak into the playoffs. And even if we get smoked in round one, it's kind of what teams do in NHL. And just because they're 25th and point percentage right now, it kind of forced their hand to take a really sobering look and be like, all right, well, it's pretty clear that we have to act decisively and be sellers.

And so it allows them to kind of get ahead of the market and make a move like this and kickstart this entire process. And if you look at just because of like how sort of on the line of the playoffs and just being regular playoff teams, they've been over the years, they've never really had drafts in the past like decade where they had a volume of picks and an ability to really replenish their pipeline and especially draft high. It's been a lot of getting value either in the later rounds or kind of turning a late first round pick or early second rounder into a useful player.

And this year, like they have a 6% chance right now. I believe at Connor McDavid to win the draft lottery. They're almost certainly going to get a top-end pick. They add another first rounder, even if it's a late one. They're going to get other picks from some of these players. It's actually like a pretty advantageous, unique position. I'm sure they're highly disappointed based on the way this year turned out, and they didn't want to be in this position.

But all things being told, they have Kyru, they have Thomas. Now they can kind of supplement that with a bunch of young players. And considering those guys are under contract as well for the next eight years, they have a long runaway here to sort of really take a kind of a more methodical approach to building their team out as opposed to just every year trying to jam it in and just trying to kind of hope for the best and make it to round one or round two and that's it. Yeah, their problems stem back since, um, portraying at all left. Honestly, they never replaced him.

They never had a true number one defenseman. And it feels like too many times at the deadline, they would be in an okay enough position, even though everybody knew they were destined for the middle at best and they still moved forward with it. And it's funny enough, they're the team as the example that's so easy to point to the year before they won. Look at what they did at the deadline. They went, we're not good enough this year for the playoffs. We're not going to win anything. Let's sell Paul Stasney, get assets back. And even if you don't use the future assets yourself, you flip them for further pieces to extend your window. They've had numerous opportunities to do so. If they had done that just one year, I think they're in a

different position now. And they could have pushed this off another year. But it's not surprising it burned them. So if they're upset, this is how their season went, I'm sorry, it's self-inflicted. You did this. Now you have to deal with the repercussions of it, but they're lucky in that they have so many pieces they can move at the deadline and bring back so much that it might speed up the process versus weeding a year. They have so many contracts like what San Jose currently has. How are you going to figure out your mess because you have all this term and money locked up? This is going to open the door to a lot. And then you can try building around Thomas and Kairun. Ideally, get it done as quickly as possible. So you're still maximizing their.

prime years. Yeah, it's remarkable. I was looking at this. The last time they had a pick in the top half of the first round was 2010 when they took Jaden Schwartz 14th overall, and they took, you'll never guess it, Vlad Tarasenko, two picks later. So full circle and it's been quite a while since they've been in this position. Even more full circle too when you think who could have had Teresanko with another player. There we go. It all, it all ties together beautifully. All right, Shana, on the way out here, I'll let you promote some stuff because you obviously been busy covering all these trades and there's hopefully going to be many more of them over the next month or so. So I'll let you tell all the listeners where they can check that out and direct them in the right direction.

You can listen to my podcast, Too Many Men Podcast with Alison Lucan and Sarah Sivian. Sarah interviewed Rod Brindamore on her episode that went on today. That's awesome. It was so good. And just it was great listening and watching the relationship between the two of them, respect each one has. So we have some fun things coming up next week, another fun guest. And my rating, you can find at The Athletic. Something just dropped on player cores and what teams getting the most out of them and things like the contender checklist and how playoff teams stack up.

That's all the kind of deadline content you're going to see the next few weeks. Awesome, Shane. Well, this is a blast. Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule. And we'll certainly have you back on here soon. Thank you to all the listeners for listening to the Hockey, Ocast. As always, streaming. on the Sports Night Radio Network.