The Hockey PDOcast - Buffalo's Depths of Despair, Utah's Growth, and Awards Races

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Steve Peters to talk about the spot the Sabres find themselves in yet again and Rasmus Dahlin's frustration with it, the Western Conference Wild Card race and Utah's growth of late, and where things currently stand with the respective awards races. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name's Dimitra Filipovich. And joining me as my good buddy, Steve Peters, PD, what's going on, man? Yeah, another day of busy hockey and trying to track this playoff stuff to drive me insane, Demetri, these percentages and who's going to make what, and who wins what, and looking at schedules, I'm literally going out of my mind with under 20 games to go. Yeah, especially in both conferences, the wildcard races, not only is it within two points the races, the respective races, but also there's like three or four teams involved in each one, right? So it's quite a lot of jam. I think I had Dom Lus Chishanonan who does

the playoff probability models for the athletic last week or two weeks ago, and we were talking about the red wings and the blue jackets at the time. And his model really puts a lot of stock into strength of schedule the rest of the way in terms of how many playoff teams you're going to go up against, whether there's easier matchups along the way. And that's kind of skews it quite a bit. I think the Red Wings, for example, have a very tough one, which is why, despite the fact that there are only two points out or whatever, or one point, their strength schedule is so tough that their actual probability is incredibly low. So the standings can be a little bit deceiving. I think the trickiest thing, and we're going to get into the West in particular,

because I want to talk to you about Utah and Wednesday nights games and some of the stuff we saw there. I think the trickiest part is when there's this many teams involved and there's so many three-point contest and you've got head to heads between them and we saw that in Calgary a Wednesday night where Calgary gets the loser point, Vancouver gets the two points in the shootout. Utah itself takes care of business, wins at home against Anaheim, but ultimately doesn't have that much to show for it because there's so many points being divvied up and they have to lead prog teams and so sometimes it's not even good enough to just take care of your own business and win these games. Yeah, and it's funny too because I think people look at the standings,

go, oh, we're only X number of points out. We can make that out. But the difficult part is not just the three point games because I agree with that, but when you have teams separating you from that playoff line, they're playing teams that are above you also. So somebody's getting points. Like somebody ahead of you is getting points. So it's not just, hey, we're three points out. We're four points out. Yeah, but you got to jump three or four teams. So it gets incredibly difficult. What makes this year so exciting is there's so many teams within striking distance. And I don't recall that in recent memory of both divisions having so many teams that are still viable this late into the season.

You're in the middle of March, and we've got several teams on both sides that are still still hanging around. Even Detroit, losing streak wins another one. Oh, now we're talking Detroit again. So it is exciting. It's an exciting time of year. It's going to be fun in a lot of these races. And we saw that reflected at the trade headline, right, where there were so few teams that

were actually in full-on selling mode, the prices got driven up. And the ones like the penguins, for example, and the sharks that were able to sell recouped pretty good value along the way. We got a fun show plan here today. We're going to get into last night's games, the stuff we saw Wednesday night. We're also going to take some mailbag questions in the back half about individual awards and some of those aforementioned playoff matchups. Let's start with Wednesday night's game. And in particular, the first one that was on T&T, we saw the Sabres get pounded.

7.3 in Detroit, you mentioned the Red Wings needed that one badly. They ended a six-game losing streak of their own during which they'd scored just 11 goals total and then went off. For seven in this one, there are only two points out of the second wildcard in the east. but as we said, they have to beat out essentially four teams for it, with even the Bruins still kind of hanging around. I think the much more interesting thing from my perspective is I wanted to talk to you about the Buffalo Sabres. You and I, you've been a regular guest this season.

We've done at least a handful of these shows together. A common theme through it has been talking about rebuilding teams and kind of the proper way to do it in some of the trials and tribulations you encounter along the way. And I apologize for consistently getting back to that theme because obviously you went through quite a bit of that during your time with the coyotes. So I feel like you're expertly qualified to weigh in on it. But this Sabres team, after this loss, they dropped the 30th in the league in both points and point percentage.

They're only ahead of the Blackhawks and the sharks. And it just feels like this year it's nothing new, but it feels especially disappointing because we had such high hopes for this club following that 22, 23 campaign, when they were kind of hanging around the playoffs. They took our imaginations by storm. Tage Thompson blew up. It really felt like they were on the right track. And instead, they've just gone in the complete opposite direction, right?

They went from 91 points that year to 84 points last year. This year, they're on pace for just 72. It's going to extend the playoff drought to 14 years for them. We saw really kind of blow up to the surface this week with all the Rasmus Dahlian drama, resulting in the team's official account, feeling the need to put out this graphic where he's saying he doesn't want to leave, which was an incredible look for them. I don't know. Do you have any thoughts on that?

The Dallian situation, the team as a whole kind of where they're at right now, what we do with them because I know it's sort of tired because we keep having the same conversation, but I just can't help but feel so disappointed by everything we're seeing from them. It has got to be incredibly frustrating playing Buffalo. I don't know what I do. I know exactly what that's like because it was Arizona. It was Arizona in that you started to have a rebuild. You'd make some drafts and you go, okay, we've got these young players that are coming up through the system and we're finally going to be really good.

And then you trade them. And then you trade your picks away and you try to make a run at it again and you blow it all up and, okay, we're going to rebuild again. And it takes incredibly long time to rebuild a team and incredible patience. And I'll go to Utah. Utah is doing it the right way. Man, that team stunk. That was a bad hockey team. And now you're looking at Cooley.

and Gunther and Josh Donne and guys that are contributing at this young age and they're there. I still don't think this is a team that's ready to be a perennial playoff team yet. It's close. Like you can see it with the understandings, but they're doing things the right way. And they have some really good, talented people coming up through the ranks in the American League and the KHL and so on. Buffalo, you get close and you draft these guys and then you blow it up again. I would be so frustrated.

You look at it and you know these names. I mean, you look at Sam Reinhardt, Jack Reichael, Jack Eichael, not Raigle, Jack Eichael, if they had those guys, Rasmus Restolan and, you know, Casey Mail set, they just got rid of, if they were still there, would we be talking about the Buffalo Sabres making a playoff run right now? Maybe. And it's just now you look at Ras, as Dahlian, and you go, okay, we can do it again? We're blowing it up again, and we've got to start over again. Some of the names they were talking about at the trade deadline. You're talking about getting rid of J. J.J. Pertka, your second in 2020. These are guys that you, They're not there yet. Just wait. Patience. And I think Tage Thompson right now, by the way, to Team USA management, come on. Four Nations, really? No, Tage Thompson?

You got him on that roster. This Buffalo team, there's just this aura of we suck and we're going to lose. And you have to find a way to shake out of that. They've tried by drafting or excuse me, picking up free agents. Like a Zucker? I like Jason Zucker. I like him. He's a good player, but he's not a guy that's going to drive the franchise.

You have to do that from within. when you're in a place like Buffalo. And unfortunately right now, you've got to look at Kevin Adams and go, Kevin. Like it might be time to make a change there. And Buffalo, the frustration to dolly nest to get out, I don't know. I don't know.

Is he happy? Of course not. Who'd want to go there and do that mess every single day? So yeah, they're in a really, really bad spot. And unfortunately, for all those Buffalo Sabers fans,

I don't see a quick fix. I don't see any way out of this tomorrow next season. I think they're mired in the muck for years to come. Yeah, there's such a, after all this time, there's such a deep rooted rot at the core of it. And it goes all the way up to the top of the organization. And unfortunately, it feels like everyone involved gets sort of that stink on them. And there's a reason bad teams stay bad in this league.

I think regardless of the semantics with the Dahlian situation in terms of what happened or didn't. I'd honestly, if I were him, I'd be worried if he wasn't pissed off right now. Yeah. Like he's about to be 25 years old. He's gone through seven years of this. He's signed up for another seven more years. after this. He's the captain. In my opinion, he's a top five to seven defensemen in the world. It doesn't really get recognized as such because his team keeps losing and he hasn't really gotten to play on a

meaningful national stage yet. We saw a little cameo of it at the Four Nations. I thought he looked awesome in that process and I would love to see guys like him and Dave Thompson actually play in these meaningful competitive games. Dalyne this year, he's tied for fourth in scoring at the position he's on pays for 75 points. He's got a plus 17 goal differential in his 5-on-5 minutes. They're minus 11 when he's not on the ice at 5-on-5, despite the fact that he's getting like 893 goal-tending or whatever behind him. He's doing this all while he's playing on his offside on the right, similar like Miro Heiskin, in Dallas to accommodate how many left-shot defensemen they have. And his most common partner this year has been Bowen Byram,

and it'll be fascinating to see how they treat him this summer as an RFA looking at presume for a massive deal and whether that comes in Buffalo or somewhere else. I mentioned this in the trade deadline show, but I'd be incredibly hesitant to be the team that pays him for that because you look at his splits playing with and without Dahlian and just kind of trying to decipher who's driving the bus and who's responsible for the success he has had this year. 590 minutes with Dahlia 515, they're up 18 in goals, 57% of the shots, 54% of the chances in the same amount of time without Dahlene, they're down five goals, 45,000. percent of the shots, 44% of the chances. And that's an incredibly harrowing split if you're

trying to pay that guy long term moving forward. And so, yeah, Dahlian's held up his end of the bargain. He's played incredibly well. Unfortunately, it just hasn't mattered for a myriad of reasons. And I think that's incredibly frustrating for both him as an individual and also people just rooting for him to succeed. Yeah, the other thing I've noticed about Dahlene this year. And I've I've seen the frustration. You see it in players where you know you're going to lose and your team is not a very good team. And you see it in their body. And you see how they compete.

And you see that they've kind of packed it in. I won't get into names because I don't think that's fair. But I think Rasmus Deline took a step this year in the other direction. I think he became more of the leader. I think he looked like the captain of the Buffalo Sabres. I think he got into scrums. I think he defended his teammates after whistles. I think he played with a little bit of extra jam and effort.

And that's saying you shouldn't play with an effort. But it gets hard when you're going to go lose every single night to go out there with that same intensity and that same effort. I think he has shown that he is leader of the Buffalo Sabres. And the more you compete like that and the harder you play like that and you continue to lose and you continue to see the chaos around you from management and coaching and in the room, it becomes even more difficult to go out there and compete every day. So if his frustrations aren't boiling over right now, then you're right. Then there's the problem. If he's not frustrated and angry and looks around the room and goes, buddy, I'm good at this. Like help, help me be better.

and I'm not sure if again the management I don't think they're in the right direction with Kevin Adams he was in Arizona Coyote I like Kevin Adams nice guy who's managing the rink next door before he made him general manager Lindy Ruff is the head coach again great career behind the bench in the national hockey league but you can see the trend of the coaches that are being more successful right now have a different coaching style than what Lindy Ruff does it's a different game it's a different style it's younger players that you need to treat differently and I think they missed when they brought Lindy Ruff back behind the bench. And I thought that was an opportunity to get a guy that could develop players.

And I don't think Lindy Ruff's that guy. So I think there are massive changes in Buffalo. And they've done it before. Massive changes, here we go again. So what are you going to get next fall? Way too early to tell. But it's a deep, dark mess there in Buffalo. Yeah, to that point on Dali, and I was talking about this,

but I think it was their final game right before the traded line. It was the Thursday before the Friday. And they were playing in Tampa Bay. And there was this post whistle sequence where he was taking Anthony Sorrelli and Brandon Higel on two on one essentially and just kind of showing some fight and everything you'd want to see from your leader and then you had guys like Jordan Greenway

who I think they have on the team for this specific reason Dylan Cousins who obviously has since been traded kind of just like standing there and half-heartedly putting their arm on someone and getting involved and not actually helping out their captain and when you have a season like this especially when it's a recurring theme I think there's such a level of apathy or checked outness from some of the players especially at this point

of the season. And that's almost as bad as the actual, you know, day-to-day losses as well, right? Kind of like the trend it has on everyone and sort of the habits it forms. What's interesting about this team is you look at their third in the league in five-on-five goal scoring as a team, them and the Rangers are the only two teams in the top 13, I believe, who aren't currently in a playoff spot. And so they've gotten back to that high octane offense and even strength that we saw a couple years ago, the issue is that the special teams are 27th on the power player, 23rd on the PK and you talk about the coaching staff and Lindy Ruff and the assistants and kind of who's to blame when you see stuff like that. I think it's an indication for me that

the personnel can clearly get the job done, but then the actual details and the preparation and the adjustments and the stuff you can kind of micromanage a little bit more from a coaching level at special teams is falling well short. Now, while I completely agree with you that the the rough hiring was obviously a miss. In the seven years, Dahlian's been here, he's the fourth coach that's been part of this, right?

And I believe it's seven coaches they've had now since the last time they made the post season. And so that level of sort of volatility or turnover and lack of runway to deal with is another part of this problem. Right. And so I'm with you on the coaching thing, but whenever you have this one common denominator, which is like the ownership and how much money they're spending

and sort of the way, like whoever's pulling the strings at the top of the organization, that's the common denominator. You can sort of shift around the deck chairs and get a different coach or a different GM or make moves on the margins with the players and you look at what they did this past summer. And I agree with you, like the Zucker edition,

the one player they actually went out and spent money on in free agency. I believe they gave him $5 million or whatever one year and then extended him at the deadline. He's been one of the silver linings for this team. They acquired Ryan McLeod. I think he's been phenomenal. He's actually improved his game offensive. quite a bit this year to go along with everything he was doing as as edmonton's bottom six

center and so i think he's a really nice piece moving forward but the rest of what they did and and they entered the summer with copious amounts of cap space they used it on guys they're using on the fourth line like lafferty malinstein they brought in nicholas oboeuble and and that's not good enough for a team that needs this many changes so i wouldn't necessarily expect some sort of a fundamental change despite all this summer from them because we just haven't really seen it um but i guess we'll I don't know. You got any other notes on the Sabres or do you want to move on the other games? Really quick, though, you're right. And one thing, the underlying thing in all of this, because again, I've lived it is when ownership is a problem. And when ownership is a problem, it's hard to

dig your way out of that. The best years the Arizona Coyotes had is when they didn't have an owner. When the league managed their finances, they were operated by the NHL because the manager was allowed to do his job because he didn't have someone in there daily managing what he was trying to do. And Don Malone was incredibly successful that way. I think when you look at the Buffalo Sabres and how involved the Pagula family has been over recent years in the day-to-day operations of their clubs and players and trades and management and drafts, it's a problem. If you're not letting your general manager do your job, that's a huge problem. And I do think that is probably the root cause of what's going on here in Buffalo. And to get by that, you need a general manager that's been around and sturdy and can tell an owner to get the heck out of the way.

And they haven't done that in Buffalo. Well, at least they have a new scoreboard. So that's what matters. There we go. The other games we saw on Wednesday that I want to talk to you about. So the Canucks had, I believe they were staying on this broadcast, which is kind of hard to believe this late into the season. It was their first third period comeback win of the year. They were like 019 and 4 or something prior to the last night's game heading into the third period while trailing.

We saw Quinn Hughes come back. He immediately played 2948. It felt like he didn't leave the ice the entire overtime and was doing Quinn Hughes stuff. And I thought looked awesome. Importantly, a developing trend, Eliza Patterson, who now is. goals in three of his past four games looked much more like himself he scored a goal um played 21 minutes had an assist took seven shots scored um a shootout winner against dust and wolf that looked much more like the old last petters said in terms of the swag and sort of the confidence shooting the puck

and so i think that's incredibly encouraging but it was a big win for the canucks considering they're chasing down calgary we also saw utah as i said before win that game uh against anaheim you have any notes or observations from either those two are kind of sizing up the the western conference I think the win for Vancouver is huge I mean clearly the extra point and where they're at in the standings and all those things are too but but everybody every single day in Vancouver you're waiting for Elias Pedersen to become Eliza Pedersen again it's every single morning you wake up and go what did he do it last night and I think last night might have been the first time that you saw him okay that that's the guy we remember from seasons past this is the guy that can make plays

around the net. This is the guy that can make those big plays at the time when we really need to have them. So I think that's a great sign for Vancouver Connect. I just don't know if there's enough runway right now. I am worried that maybe it is a little too late for him to get started. I thought the Four Nations was going to be his springboard, and it clearly was not, where he struggled through the Four Nations and injuries aside. But I do think that's a big

point for Vancouver, but you made a big point in their third period comebacks. They're minus 17 and third period goal differential. There's only two teams in the West that are worse, that's Chicago and San Jose. And those teams are out of the playoffs for a certain reason because they stink as the game continues to go on. If you're going to be one of these teams that's challenging for the playoffs and you are trying to be one of those teams competing for a Stanley Cup, you have to be good in the

third period. And you look at the third period leaders and the teams that are really good in third period goal differential. It's Washington, Vegas, Winnipeg, Colorado. Yeah, those are the teams vying for Stanley Cup. So for Vancouver's inability to hold on to those leads or chase a game from behind is really telling in their ability to. to come back and can they have the,

dig their boots in and come back and behind a game. And having such a poor third period, I think is a big problem for Vancouver. I'm really worried about their ability to make the playoffs this season. I think that's very understandable. It sets up a big Sunday night game here in Vancouver against that, aforementioned Utah Hockey Club, and we're going to actually be doing a post game show.

We're going to save. I do the Sunday specials with Thomas Drans. Every Sunday. We're usually doing the afternoon. We're going to wait until after that game, and we're going to talk a lot about it because I'm, I'm so fascinated by this Utah hockey club team, and it hasn't been an easy ride this season. I was even watching the game on Wednesday against Anaheim, and Anaheim ties it up off a beautiful Mason McTavish power play goal.

And I'm like, oh, here we go again, because they've let so many key points away this season with all the one goal losses they have and how frustrating that's been. But you look at all the underlying markers and with all the young players taking a massive step this year. and they've been like a top 5-1-5 team over the past month or two, and they also, their power play has been top-ton in efficiency, and there's so many things that are working on their favor. And one of those is Dylan Gunther, who is a player near and dear to both of our hearts. Past three games, 14, 13, and 14 shot attempts for him. He's absolutely using his biggest weapon, which is that shot,

and just firing at free will. since he came back for missing about a month or so with injury, 13 games. He has eight goals in that time. He has 61 shots on goal, which leads the league. He has 118 shot attempts, which is behind only Alex Leveskin, of course, and all his 5-on-5 metrics in that time are in a 60% range in terms of the shares of what the team's controlling with him out there. And so he's really taken his game, I think, to another height.

He's not even playing with Cooley and Keller doing so. him and Barrett Hayden have kind of established a nice little connection here that you saw on Wednesday night. And so I feel like in terms of just leveling up and a player like this, they can sort of take over and we know how difficult it's going to be as we get into the stretch run, especially look at the competition, right? And teams like the flames who are 30 second in scoring, the Canucks who are bottom five and had their struggles. Utah at least has one guy that those teams don't really have at this point that can just put the puck into the net and be such a fundamental game breaker at that end of the ice. And so I feel like we'll see. It's still a bit of a leap for Utah to get there. They will have a chance to control their own destiny to a certain extent.

But when you compare it to the alternatives, I feel like it would be such a travesty if they weren't the Wild Card 2 team in the West. Because I just think everyone wants to see more of them and getting these guys, those meaningful playoff reps. Even if it's a short five game series against Winnipeg or Winnipeg outclasses them, I feel like that would still be much superior from an entertainment. statement perspective to the alternatives. And I feel like it would be huge for this franchise in year one heading into the offseason and looking to continue this growth. Yeah. And I think when they came to Utah, leaving Arizona, the big message from Bill Armstrong

was to play competitive games into March and April, and they're doing that. I think he said in the preseason comments that this team isn't ready, isn't ready to make a playoff front. And he's right. But when we talk the way this team is built, this team is focused on their offense. It's been Clayton Keller, Clayton Keller. Clayton Keller and that's it. There hasn't been that secondary scoring. There hasn't been the secondary weapon that when Clayton Keller isn't scoring, nobody else really picked that up.

Well, now you mentioned Dylan Gunther. That's what makes this team different is because when one guy cools off, and Clayton Keller right now was still on pace to have one of his best seasons of his career and quietly, I know he's on another four game point streak. But I don't know how he does it. You look and he's always on the score sheet. But when he's not putting the puck in the net, you've got Dylan Gunther now. And Logan Cooley has cooled off. He was a guy that was hot. Now he's hasn't scored in five, no points in five. Josh Done is another guy that's helping with the secondary

scoring and getting pucks off the wall and getting pucks to the net. The one thing Utah has different is they have more weapons. And Dylan Gunther, I'm telling you, Dylan Gunther and Logan Cooney, two, three, four years from now, they're going to be a big deal in the National Hockey League. There is no doubt in my mind

with the speed and skill of Cooley and the ability to make those kind of plays and what Dylan Gunther can do, A, on the power play, but more importantly, watch Dylan Gunther defend. Like Dylan Gunther can play 200 feet. He is a really talented, smart hockey IQ guy that I think is going to be a huge asset for years to come. And that's what makes this team a little bit different is so many different offensive weapons. You know, it's interesting. The only deal we saw Utah make, and I was expecting them to be a bit more aggressive,

not on the rental market, but in terms of trying to get a player with either a year or two left on their term that could help them moving forward. They didn't do that. The only deal we did see Bill Armstrong make was dumping the final year. of Shea Weber's deal, which is obviously the cap hits high. It's in the sevens, but the actual salary is only one, and it's going to be on LTIR for the Blackhawks now. And it seemed, it kind of flew under the radar. It was near the end of the draft.

No one really talked about it much beyond the jokes of like, wow, the Blackhawks acquired Shea Weber, as we do every time one of these deals happens. But I thought it was a notable sort of symbolic end of an era of money laundering coyotes hockey that we saw for about a decade where they were just always on the forefront of these deals. And we've talked so much about the move to Utah, the new ownership,

the rebranding, but in terms of actual on ice product and obviously the team name and the jerseys and everything and the fan base, but also in terms of the way they operate and the willingness to spend money and to be a little different

and avoid some of the pitfalls we just talked about with Buffalo. And we saw all those years where it was Weber, it was Datzuk, it was Hosa, it was Pronger. I was talking to you about how he is randomly, Chris Pronger has turned into one of our most prolific online posters recently. You go on his Twitter feed, he's like just demanding, like when the Seth Jones trade happened, he's messaging everyone in our analytics fear being like, give me the numbers of

what the projections like with him on a better team. He's doing trade breakdowns for every deal of the deadline on Puckpedia. I thought it was awesome. We need to get Chris Bronger on this broadcast here seriously. But to that point in terms of the fundamental change in the way this organization is going to operate moving forward, they had those promising signs in this past off season, right, where they actually went out and they acquired a big money deal in actual payouts for Surgachev that actually exceeded the AAB, which they would never do before, acquired John Marino. I imagine we're going to see them dip into that and spend again this off season. But I thought that was an important development, not like a crucial one in terms of actual consequence on the case. cap, but just one to sort of finally close the door on that and move on and reflect what we've

all been hoping to see. Yeah, but it's funny. And we can, part of that is Bill Armstrong and how he wanted to build the team. But the bigger factor is the same thing we said in Buffalo. It's about ownership and the ability to spend money. And under the Morello ownership group, they had no ability to spend money. So you take on those those cap hits. So you don't have to pay more money out.

You don't have to spend your money on actual players. And you just take dead money. And I think now the shift with the ownership of Ryan Smith is, hey, we're here to spend money. We're here to win. And it's such a fundamental shift in thought process for a team to go, hey, we got an owner really to spend money. We better free up some money.

That was a bigger move than I think people credited them for. There was no way Bill Armstrong is going to go swing for a rental. Zero chance. And you talk to him and his philosophy on how he wants to build this team. To your point, yes, if there was somebody, you know, 27 or younger that had a year or two left in term that could help this team in the longer term, I think he would have made that deal. but I think the prices got so high, so late on this buyer's market that I don't think that fit what Utah was doing. More importantly, they signed players at the trade deadline to keep the players and the core players they need to have going forward.

This is interesting. Now, you've got them with a large amount of money to spend to get to the cap next year, or excuse me, cap space, and I know they're willing to spend money in a team that is young and talented and ready to win. Look out for what Utah does this summer. They could do something interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if you see them take a big swing. But you're right. The philosophy has changed in Utah,

and that's why they are sitting two points out of a playoff spot right now with a month to go in the season. So I've given us a lot of thought while watching their games recently, and I'm not sure if you're going to agree with this. And this isn't necessarily a statement on the player quality, because I think Nick Schmaltz is a totally fine player and like a good top six contributor in the right situation. But I feel like the move for them,

when they truly get serious about not only being like a full, frisky playoff bubble team, but one that's being taken seriously in cup contender conversations and is like constantly at the top of the league, it's going to be upgrading that spot because right now he's second on the team behind Keller in usage in terms of all situations and 5-1-5. He plays on the top unit power play. He's out there for the shootouts. It feels like because of obviously his connection with Keller and the chemistry they've had for years dating back to their Arizona days, but also just because he's been so established. And that's how NHL teams operate, there's a lot of deference to him in these high leverage moments,

right, where he's just going to be out there, the puck's going to be on his stick. And I think he's a fine player. But when you look at this future core of Keller, Cooley, Gunther, and just having another sort of piece there and a running mate in the top six for those guys, I feel like that's the most natural upgrade for me in terms of going from good to great. And it might not happen this summer because you look at his contract. and he's going to be an expiring deal at about 5.85. Or the actual money owed is actually quite high.

I think it's up to $8.5 million because it was backloaded. And so I'm not sure they're going to go about making that fundamental change of turning that contract into a bigger piece this summer. Maybe they'll just let it sort of play its due course and expire and then do so the following off season. But I feel like that's the next step that I'd like to see for them take. Do you agree with that? What do you think about that sort of logic?

And I've been around the locker room with Nick Schmaltz in Arizona. And first off, Nick's a very talented player. He can protect the puck. He can get up to speed quickly. He's got that offensive upside when he wants to. And his consistency has always been a problem in his career. When he turns it up and he competes and he plays, dude can play. Like, he's a really talented player.

The problem is not getting him to do that game to game, getting him to do that shift to shift and having that same consistency in that given S meter that you really want to see him compete. I know Bill Armstrong would love to unload this contract. He's 8-4 and cash this year. He's 8-5 in cash next year. Even as cap, it's 5-8-5, but absolutely he won't upgrade in that position. And you said it before. When Clayton Keller looked on his on the other wing, he had Nick Smaltz there. And it was a comfortable feeling for him. And I think Clayton Keller succeeded with Nick Smaltz on his line as his linemate. But now there's more.

And there's more opportunities to get to Clayton Keller puck besides Nick Smaltz. And I think that's one of the reasons Smaltz lasted this long. I think his relationship with Keller on the ice really helped solidify him as one of the top players in Arizona slash Utah because there was a comfortability with Keller and it made Keller happy. I think that's past. I don't know if you're going to be able unload that contract. You're going to have to eat some of it. but they would clearly like to move on from Nick Schmaltz. And having said that,

if he could ever find that gear where he could consistently play to that level that he has in the tool bag, I think he can be an effective player in this league. But where he is at in his career to think that's going to magically appear right now, I'm not so sure. Yeah, I think he is what he is his point, which is a fine player,

but one that I think you'd do well to remove the emotional attachment from and the relationship with. and try to upgrade. So once that happens, I'm going to be like, all right, this Utah team is very serious about what they're trying to do here. Pedy, let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll jump back into the PDOCAST mailbag and answer a few questions.

You're listening to the HockeyPedioCast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. All right. We're back here on the Hockey-Docat with Steve Peters today, PD. Let's get into the mailbag. We had a couple fun questions from our listeners in the PEDOCast Discord. And the first one gives us an opportunity to talk a little bit about the individual awards. Actually, something I haven't really spent that much time focusing on this year. It feels like most of the races have been already predetermined in terms of the winners kind of solidifying their spots.

So it hasn't been too intriguing from a race perspective. But a few of them are heating up. And we have this question from Centron that asks, have your picks for the major awards changed since mid-season? Who do you think can make a surge down the stretch to challenge the current frontrunner? Do you want to break them down, kind of go one at a time through all the, all the main ones and talk about where out with them? Yeah, you have the advantage though, because you're the numbers guys. So you're going to get deep into these. And I'm just going to go more on emotion.

But yeah, let's do it. I love it. The Ves and now we can do this one pretty quickly. Connor Hellbock currently has a 98.4% implied odds in terms of how big of a favorite he is. My most interesting note about this. And we'll still see on the finalist. It feels like Logan Thompson's going to get one of them. Certainly Vasilevsky, if he keeps up the stretch he's been on since essentially the holiday break, is probably going to get in there.

Maybe one of those other final spots is open. I'm curious to see when the final votes are tallied and the ballots are released. I want to see where Dustin Wolf ends up on this list because this award is voted on by the GMs, right? The Calder is voted on by the pro hockey writers association. and I'm curious to see comparing the two how that voting structure is determined

and where he winds up in both. He'll certainly be, I think, a finalist for the Calder although based on the history of that award, I still would give the edge

to either Sillabrini or Hudson just because skaters tend to get more favored in that. But his impact on this Flames team has been so profound. They're 30 second in the league in scoring. No one would have expected them at the 65 game mark

or whatever to be holding down a playoff spot and it's almost been entirely hinging on his success. And so I did all a big section on this with Kevin Woodley on the most recent show. We don't necessarily need to get into it too much. But I think that's the most interesting component of me, of this for me, just to see where Wolf ends up in terms of

not just his peers as rookies and first year players, but the position as a whole. And if he winds up in the top five on a lot of those ballots. Yeah, it is going to be a thing. And unfortunately, I don't think, whether he's deserving or not, I think he should be, his name should be included with those guys, but it's going to be Lane Hudson and McLean-Clebone. I think Celebrini wins it.

You'd have to help me out when the last time a goaltender was in the conversation for a call. Well, the last time, one of that won was Steve Mason in whatever it was, 2009 or whatever, it's been forever. Yeah. So it's been a long time since the goal is, because the numbers that that Wolf has put up and the, not just the numbers, but how important he's been to his team during this season and his numbers are elite. They're fantastic numbers right now for a kid that's 23 years old. Yeah, yeah, absolutely should be in the conversation. He's one guy didn't have on my list that, you know, I had Hudson and Macklin Celebrany, and I've got it going to Celebrity of the 18-year-old. I think it's been outstanding this year.

Hudson, I don't know what it was. I don't know if you were hearing that, but early, you know, I'm not sure about this Lane Hudson guy and we can he play and he's a guy that can play in the league. What? Are you out of your mind? There were some people that are very concerned in the Montreal area that this kid turns the puck over too much and he can't defend. Dude, he's 21. And it's the Montreal Canadian. So I think it's going to come down to those two. I will now keep an eye on Dustin Wolf because I would love to see him get into that

conversation. I think it would be great to see a goaltender get back into the top three in the rookie conversation. Yeah, Salabini is still the favorite, but obviously if Montreal is actually able to continue this remarkable run in the second half and get into one of those wildcard spots with Hudson getting the point totals and assist he has. and also just the usage. I feel like that'll be an interesting conversation.

The Selke. Agreed. So Barcov is a heavy favor right now to repeat. Second is Sam Ryanhart, his line made, who's obviously phenomenal, his own right, but has the winger bias working against him.

He's also played less than 140 all situations, minutes away from Barcov, and I feel like just Barkov's presence on the ice is so commanding. Nico Hishier's third, do you have any dark horses for this one who not will necessarily win it because it really feels like Barkov is not only going to repeat this year,

but get into that Patrice Bergeron phase of his career where, assuming he's healthy and not injured, at least for the next five years or so, I imagine he's going to be firmly cemented not only on this list, but atop it, and well deserved based on just the outside impact he has off the puck. But do any dark horses that could get into the finalist conversation? They probably won't. Again, I think this is one of those that, this is Barkov's award this year,

and he has become the guy. And when you watch him play 200 feet of the ice, he's absolutely exceptional the way he back checks his stick in the defensive zone. He's elite. But there are other guys that should be in the conversation. They probably won't be. Like Joel Eriks and Eck in Minnesota, he's a guy for me that, again, he's one of those guys that goes under the radar.

Not only does he help drive the offense, but when you put him out on the ice, when you're up a goal, he's a guy that you know you can you can count on to be in the right place, the right time, great hockey IQ. Copatar? Can we ever talk about Copatar? in that role. Again, your guys that you don't think of traditionally as being, hey, he plays all over the ice. Copa tar to me is the one that deserves it and should be in the conversation with Barkov. I actually be right there with Barkov. Copa tar is so elite,

but you get into that East Coast bias, everybody's asleep by the time they see Angei Kopitar play. He's come into the point in his game where he is an all-around absolute elite player. And I think you're going to see it in the playoffs as how well he drives that L.A. King's team. I like that. Obviously, the King's team defense and what they've been able to do yet again this year has been remarkable, especially with Dowdy missing as much time as he did on that end of the ice.

Eric Zedek has missed so many games. I think he's played only 42 so far, so that takes him out of the consideration for me, but I get your point in terms of just the package of his work. I've got two names that I don't think will wind up on a lot of finalists lists, but I feel like deserve a lot of mention and love here.

and one is Brennan Hagel. Now, as I said with Reinhardt, a winger is not going to get a lot of love for this word. If we didn't see Mark Stone in his prime win, it I don't think we're going to see that here. But he's been pretty much, him and Sirelli have been playing opposing power plays to a dead draw when they're short-handed.

You watch him and just the motor and how difficult he makes it for opponents and the way he's just always moving forward and attacking. He's a nightmare to play against, and I feel like his defensive impact is so huge and and should be warranting of love here. Not even listed on on the odds. So you couldn't even bet it.

And that's fair because you just throw away money. But Pierre-Luc Dubois for me, now listen, he's played less than 10 minutes total on the PK this year. So people look at that quite a bit and they're going to use that against him. This is also out of all of them, probably the biggest reputation award, right? Like it's like once you get into this position in people's minds, it's going to be tough to shake that and you're just going to keep repeating on it until something drastically changes in your career.

His track record, the bad exits, the effort level in L.A. is going to be held against him. But this year, we've seen Spencer Carberry lean on him as his number one center of 515 and his key matchup guy where he just assigns him and throws him at the opposing team's biggest threat. And he succeeded in that with him on the ice of 515, 55% of the shots, expect a goal. as well, 56% of the chances. They're up 61 to 33 in his 5-on-5 minutes. I think he's been downright phenomenal. They've used various combinations with him, whether it's Tom Wilson on his wing or Alexi Proto's mixing and matching, but they just make life so difficult on the opposition. And I just think, like, you've seen the success the capitals have had and Spencer Carberry is going to be the only, Logan Thompson will be a finalist for the Vezna. Spencer Carberry is going to win

the Jack Adams. Those are going to be the only guys who appear on these lists in terms of the recognition. but I feel like what Pierluca Bua has done in year one in Washington coming in and giving him that matchup center and how he's been able to tilt ice in those minutes to go along with all the playmaking and the points finally starting to come for him, I just think he's been phenomenal. So I wanted to give that shout out as sort of my out-of-left field pick for one that should get probably more buzz than they will. It's a great pick, and it's funny.

I talked to the assistant coach there. Scotty Allen used to coach for the Arizona Coyote and asked him about Du Bois and his personality and all the things we've heard about him. year after year, and they don't see it in Washington. I don't know if he's changed his ways or what he is in the locker, but they love him there in Washington. And to your point, this Washington Capitol team needs Pierre-Luc Dubois. He's one of the players that they've actually not just to help with the secondary scoring,

but you do need that guy to defend him up the middle of the ice. He's been a huge asset for the turnaround. Is it a turnaround? I know they got in the playoffs last year. But this is a team to win the President's trophy with Pierre-Lek-Dabwewa, having a big part of that. So yeah, that's a great pick. That's why this numbers thing, you're really good at that. I got to figure that out.

I'm not a numbers. I'll give you some more numbers for the Norris. Now, I was ready a couple weeks ago to fight for this with anyone and be very passionate about my Quinn Hughes case. He's missed 14 games and that's going to be tough to overcome when it's that tight and Kail McCar has been as productive as you'd expect and Zach Wrenzki being so dominant.

So I think there's very worthy, alternatives here and I'd give them the slight edge just because 14 games is a pretty meaningful part of this sample. But here's a couple of Quinn Hughes stats for you. Sixty one points and 51 games. Now no one else in the Canucks has 40 this year, despite the fact that he's missed that much time, he leads a team by 22 points from that position. In his 5-15 minutes, they're up 53 to 39. In all the other 5-15 minutes he hasn't played, they're down 85 to 60. there's no player that has this big of a one-sided effect in terms of what the team looks like when he's on the ice and I get the usage and they put him in scoring situations and he's not penalty killing yada yada yada he just has such an on-puck impact the complete command of the game and it's exactly what you need so he won't win this award I don't think because kale macar is kind of running away with it in the odds and so that's totally fair but I don't know do you have any any notes on this one or what we're seeing from these three guys or anyone else in the league that's kind of caught your eye?

Because I think the gap between these three and pretty much everyone else is absolutely massive. Right. I think fourth is like some combination of Josh Morrissey and Rasmus Dahlin and Jacob Chikrin. But those guys are such a distant fourth to the three that have cemented themselves on top. Yeah, those are the three I had written into as McCar Warrensky and Hughes. One thing about Hughes. and again, like you said, I'll fight people on this one too. Of those three, the offensive talent, it's not even close.

Like, to me, it's Quinn Hughes. His ability to walk the line, his ability to make those passes, his ability to get shots through to the net, his ability to transport the puck up the ice. I think of those three players, he is, it's not close. Like he is so much, even Camacar. And people will say, well, I'm an idiot. But Quinn Hughes is better.

He's better. He looks players. off better. He can make those better passes. I think he is the better offensive defenseman. Unfortunately, I like the other two better. And I'd like to see, I hope Zach Werenski gets some love. I really hope he does on a team that sometimes gets overlooked. I think Zach Wrenski has not just the offensive side of the book, but his ability to defend, his ability to get back into place, his ability to play the stick, play the front of the net, his ability to use his body in those areas, I think makes him the better. If I need defensemen to play, Tony's the way. I think makes him the better. If I need a defenseman to

play tomorrow to play 200 feet of the ice and I need to put them out up one or down one, I'm putting out Zach Rowensky. And then Kail McCar would be second. I know Kail McCar is going to win this award again and it's his trophy to lose. But I question people that vote for this to go, okay, your down one, need to go up one, need to protect a lead. Which defenseman do you want on the ice in both situations all the time? And for me right now, it's Zach Rowensky.

I think McCar has been phenomenal this season. I'm with you. I think it's really nitpicking and personal preference. The thing with Hughes, and I guess you could include Werenski here because everything runs through him so much, although he's out on the ice with that top line of theirs and they're able to play a downhill style that I think creates more lanes for him. But there's no openings that are created for Quinn Hughes. There's no situations where he gets the puck in a shooting position and is able to just step into it freely. Like everyone, every time he's in that space, thought, it's because he's done something leading up to it to create it. There's no other table setters. Like everything they do flows through him. And I think the degree of difficulty is so high where just in watching the games, it does feel like for McCarra and Wrenski and some of these other guys, there's just a few more easier opportunities for them to create because of who they're

on the ice with now that that shouldn't take away from their own accomplishments in terms of making the most of it and what they do to drive the bus as well. And so I think it's an incredible class. I think all three are very worthy and have been having tremendous seasons. But one thing, though, real quick, though, at what time, Dimitri, can we get two awards? Like, when is that really going to happen? Because Quinn Hughes does win the offensive defenseman of the year. He is the defensive, or excuse me, offensiveman of the year, period.

Like, I said that. He's the most talented, most gifted, best puck mover in the national hockey. So can we get two awards finally? Can we finally get to that point where we've got, you know, the Selke and you've got defending forward? Can we have defensive defensemen? Can we please? Can you call Gary and get that going?

Yeah. I mean, it'll be nice to see guys like Jacob Slavin and Gus Forsling get some love because they're just never going to get the points to deserve it. I mean, I was watching the, you know, I didn't have it on my notes because it's happened a while ago now, so it's not necessarily fresh news. But I know that you did a YouTube show recently here talking about their neckplatt suspension and him being out for 20 games and some of the impacts that's going to have on the Panthers. I was watching the other night.

It was their first game without him. and Seth Jones has to step in into top line minutes. All of a sudden, he plays like half of his minutes at 5-1-5 against the Pasternak line. He got burned a couple of times. He made mistakes with the puck. I think he got overextended. Obviously, it bumps up. Demetri Kulikov back up into the second pair.

Now, one of the benefits is it actually gets Uvis Bolinskis into the lineup, but I really like his game. And so I'm excited to see a bit more of him in terms of getting super nerdy with it. But there was this play in the third period where I forget who was in the Bruins, but they get the puck in their own zone. and there's a lane and they just start skating towards the other end of the ice with a puck on their stick and Seth Jones at the offensive blue line has to pivot

and just gets completely dusted by him and it looks like it's going to be a breakaway and then all of a sudden you see Gus Forsling flying like a bad man from the opposite corner of the ice and just cuts them off and completely diffuses the situation and he's done that for Eckblad for a year and a half now he's going to do it for Seth Jones in these final 20 games his impact in terms of how much ground he covers

and how good that stick is is just so destructive to every other team that plays against them, and you're never going to see him listed in these top three to five defensemen awards because you look at his point totals and his goals, and they're just not going to be able to compare to what Kail McCarrow does when he's scoring 30 goals or Quinn Hughes when he's scoring well over a point in game, right? So it's an entirely different ballgame for those guys. And Slavin, too, I agree.

Forzing a Slavin, let's make a new award, and I think they'd be two guys that do the right things in the defensive. Jack Adam. So Carberry is deservedly going to win it. He's running away with the Dean Everson. is a very worthy second. I think John Heinz and the betting odds is third right now. And obviously the Minnesota Wilder is sticking out a playoff spot

despite not having Caprizov and Erickson egg and so many injuries along the way. Do you have any notes on on any of these guys? I think Evanston, you know, heading into the season, the Blue Jackets had less than a 1% chance of making the playoffs. They're currently holding on to a playoff spot down the stretch. I think what he's done in terms of opening up the system in terms of giving Marchenko two more minutes per game, giving Kent Johnson and Francove four more minutes per game.

I was watching the stadium series game. They played against Detroit recently. And Ray Farrarro was talking about sort of the profound impact he's had on Elvis Merzlikens in that in terms of like actually communicating with him and helping get his career on track and getting him off social media and all this stuff that was maybe sapping or including negative energy into his life previously and trying to get the players to focus and get the most out of them and put him in a position to succeed. And I feel like beyond all.

all the tactical stuff, these are the things that a coach can most directly control the player usage and putting the players in a position to exceed. And I feel like Dean Evesant has obviously done an exemplary job of that this season. Yeah. And what surprised me when he got Lego in Minnesota is how long it took him, I guess it wasn't that long. But to find a job, I thought the Chicago Blackhawks might take a longer look at Dean Everson. I'm a huge DeNevison fan. I think he walks that line that you need to have in a coach in the National Hockey League right now

where you can walk the line of X's and O's in structure, and you can also be a guy that can communicate with your players on the right level. And I think he's a guy that can help develop players because he communicates like that, and he's not above them. And I think he is so unnoticed in this league, and you're right, he should be number two this year. It's Spencer Carberry's award period, sorry, give it to him for the same reasons. And I think his ability to communicate with his players and get this Washington Capital Group playing as one.

they squeak in last year. They almost back into the playoffs a year ago. They weren't quite ready. And you go, okay, Pittsburgh and Washington are in the same spot. Old veteran guys that can drive this team. And all of a sudden, Washington turns around and they're fast. They were a slow team. They're fast.

They're a fun hockey team to watch. And I think Spencer Carberry used his ability to communicate with these young, talented developing players and make them the team they are today. You talk to people in their organization and they say, this is special. There's something special going on. That was early in the year. One guy I know you can't because their team is so good is Scott Arneill. When you see Rick Bonas, revered coach of the Washington, excuse me, Winnipeg, Jett's step aside.

And when he retired, Scott Arneill, he had a tough spot. He was in a tough spot to try to duplicate what they had done in the past. I know he was on the bench before and his voice had been heard and he stepped over, stepped in when bonus stepped aside. But I think Scott Arneal has done an outstanding job, again, duplicating something in a city that's hard to duplicate that in. Yeah, but coaches never get the recognition for this award when the team was good the previous season. No. It's generally the team that's turned around the most or made the biggest gains. So that's why Jared Beddnar is never in this conversation, even though they've used 46 different players this year.

Travis Green? Which is just a remarkably tough thing. Yeah, Travis Green with the senators looking like they're solidifying that playoff spot and how much they've improved defensively under him, especially the strides the young players have taken. I feel like he deserves a shout there as well. We don't have, we've got to get out of here. We don't have time for the heart. We'll have more time to devote to that.

the league MVP dry Seidel's the favorite right now Connor Hullabuck is making a very compelling case although McKinnon as well with the scoring he's he's been on and how absurd he's been you go on down the line that'll be a fun one but we'll revisit that when we have more time Pete we got to get out of here I'm going to give you a chance to plug some stuff because you're doing really cool stuff on your YouTube channel so let the listeners know about that

thanks to meet you yeah just go to inside the coaches room on YouTube I'm trying to do things to help people that don't understand the game very well I just did a basics tutorial it's long. It's 15 to 20 minutes, but everything from what the player's positions are to where they're supposed to be on the ice to why you get kicked out of a face off. I think it's a really good tutorial as you're getting ready for the playoffs. So check it out. And S. Peters hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey hockey. S. You do it. I put out a nine minute video of everything he's done this season and just what a unique player is and how funny is to watch. So if you hadn't had a chance to indulge in Alexi Proto's tape yet, but also go on the HockeyPedist's YouTube channel. I put out a nine minute video of everything he's done this season and just what a unique player is and how funny he is to watch. So if you hadn't had a chance to indulge in Alexi Proto's tape yet. that's your opportunity to do so. That's all from us today. We'll be back Friday with two more shows to close out the week. Thank you for listening to the Hockey P.D. Ocast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.