The Hockey PDOcast - Bussi in the SCF, Woll To The Flyers, and The Goalie Market This Summer

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Kevin Woodley to talk about Brandon Bussi's performance in the Stanley Cup Final, Joseph Woll going to the Flyers via trade this week, and the options likely to be available on the goalie market this offseason. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey Pediocast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockeyediocast. My name is Dimitri Fulipovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Kevin Woodley. Kevin, what's going on, man? Stanley Cup playoffs are done, buddy. Like, it's almost vacation time a little bit.

Not really, because while everybody else rests, this is where the goalies go to work. Like already we're starting to see, like, the pros back on the ice, working with their gurus, and that'll get hot and heavy into July, so I'll start doing some trips to see them. But it's nice to have a little break here. It is, but we're getting into the offseason. We've already seen one goalie moved,

and I'm expecting quite a bit more on that front, especially in the trade market with, as we're going to talk about today, how limited the resources that are available in unrestricted free agency. And as we know, teams are constantly trying to find the right match, especially now that they're splitting up the starts so evenly between two options. And so hopefully we'll see a lot of movement. And that's why I wanted to have you on, partly because we haven't had a chance to have you on in a while.

We didn't get to talk during the Stanley Cup finals. So I wanted to get into Brandon Bussie a little bit with you. And then set the table as part of our offseason previews on the goalie front, since you really are the only person I trust in the world to evaluate goalies and speak about them in a reasonable, informed manner. And you covered some of the gaps that I have on that front, as well. And so we're going to have some fun today. Let's start with Bussy though before we get into the goalies that are available because he's coming off of an exceptional performance in the Stanley

Cup final. I think particularly, and you can speak to this better than I can, but just how long he was off, where he went essentially two months without in-game action and then being thrown in to that third period on the road, game three, where everything's going wrong for them against the Golden Knights. They get back into that one. And then he shuts the door the rest of the way winds up, stopping 81 of 87, including the shutout in the clinching game. And you and I have had a lot of conversations about Bussie over the year because he had one of the more interesting profiles, not only the story of kind of toiling away in the H.L for a while being picked up off waivers by the hurricanes, but then with the injuries

they had to Kachikov and Anderson along the way, being thrust into the spot where he started a bunch of games, had a relatively low state percentage because they didn't give up any shot volume, but every single shot he faced was a chaotic two-on-one or breakaway or broken play in front of the net. And we saw him up to the task for on a lot of those shots against the Golden Knights in that Santa Cup final. And so maybe it was great preparation for him with regards to that. But I'll let you cook a little bit here on Bussy because I know it's a goal he you're very familiar with and fond of as well. You've spoken about him highly over those conversations and he deserves the love after what he showed us in that cup final. Yeah. So a number of fronts.

could touch on there. Let's start with the gap and the time off. And in some ways, maybe a perfect storm to get into that game down for nothing because you get to wet your, dip your toes a little bit with a little less pressure, right? Like you're down for cop. But anytime a goalie has that type of time off and comes back and has that plays that well, you have to give credit to both the goalie and the goaltending coach for the work that's been done during that gap. And it's tougher in the playoffs, maybe a little less so in Carolina, because of all the gaps they had in between series. There would have been more full practices.

But usually in the playoffs, like, you can get your goalie ice, but it's a little tougher to get enough bodies out there to have a good practice. So I want to shout out Paul Sean Felder, the goaltending coach as well, who's been there for a long time and who I've known dating back to a stint of sort of video coach analyst helper with, Hockey Canada's program of excellence that he was involved in before he got his first job in the American Hockey League. So the work that he did to make sure, along with Bussie, sort of staying engaged,

like that's just had tips all around. Two, his performance, because I'm glad you framed it in that manner, because I've seen other people frame it a little, with a little less praise, a little bit more of a, he did his job. I actually read that. Like he did his job, Carolina's wagon, he did his job. And I'm like, that one threw me because I got a little angry at that one. It was, dude, he was five, by clear side analytics numbers, he was 5.29 goals saved above expected in less than four games.

Like what, three and three point seven five games with all the overtimes in his first appearance. That's third in the entire Stanley Cup playoffs. Third. Behind only Yakub Dolbush and Lena Selmarck. Now there's something, like you'll notice that two of the three played four games or less, Allmark and Bussie. And so I think that speaks to the fact that it's harder to maintain that level of success over the course of a long playoff run in part because your game never gets more exposed than it does

in a Stanley Cup playoff run. Teams just dig down to the nth degree on pre-scout. Teams players pay more attention to it. I mean, you saw a prime example in game six, right? Like by the time you get to game six, the Stanley Cup final, every shooter on Carolina knows against the grain under the glove, right? And what does Taylor Hall do on Carter Hart? Because he's got a fingers up glove position.

It's harder to access that puck under the glove. He's coming off that wing, shoot it back the other way against the grain. He had one of the highest totals I've seen in the past season of goals going in against the grain. So, you know, a little bit of not a much chance for Vegas to build the great pre-season. scout on Bussie or dig in on it and just some of the saves he made like there there's some things he does differently we heard him described as aggressive he's not aggressive positionally initially he actually plays somewhat conservative he beats plays laterally to their spots it's when he reads shot like even think back to the Ikel save cross crease with the goalie pull trying to tie the game

late a lot of goalies will target that lateral push back towards their post and this is where aggression comes in and it's small like it's it's microaggression so to speak um the difference between a goalie going from the edge of his crease and rotating into his post with that push versus coming straight across and cutting off a little angle as part of it with icel the one on the post is going to get you there sooner and give you positional stability on a second save but in that situation the one towards icel i think you see that there's so many great replays the shot hits the top edge of his pad what we call the outer role. If that pad is directed back towards the post,

it's only a difference at two feet in terms of his path to direction, the route he takes. But that two feet is the difference between that puck hitting the top edge of the pad and going over the pad. And so it's those moments of relative aggression compared to other guys.

Like Freddie's going back to the post on that. I'm pretty sure. Then you combine it with the natural skill set, the length he has, something we talked about with Dolbisch, the ability to sort of get extended and just use those long limbs. He's not just big, he's long.

There's just a ton to love about it. And we've got some pro reads up at ingolmagg.com with Bussie, where he breaks down plays. And when he does, that intelligence, that goalie IQ, really shines through. We've got a couple up right now, his second and his third entries. And they're both plays from behind the net.

And on one, he just takes that middle net across route I talked about to the post. maximizes his coverage. And on the other one, he shoots out aggressively. He makes both saves. But his ability to explain and understand in the moment when those two different scenarios are required, like when to do what,

is I think one of the separating factors for him. He thinks the game so well. And then the other thing, if you watched, if anybody's going back and watching replays, Keynes fans, watch how often he looks off the puck when the puck's in zone. Like he is constantly scanning the zone. Great lesson for young goal. his awareness of what's going on away from the puck is at a really high level.

So he had those physical tools. He had the preparation he did with Sean Felder to that goalie IQ. And, you know, all came together. And obviously he can handle the mental stress of high pressure because he played, like he said, he played as well as any goal he did in the Stanley Cup playoffs during that four-game stretch. And to me, he didn't just do his job. He was the difference in that Stanley Cup final. Yeah, the shot volume for any Kane's goal, he's never going to be reflective of the story.

especially in a series like that where the Golden Knights are so good at kind of purposefully creating their offense. Like you would never really see a guy just kind of skate into the zone in a straight line and just fire one of those low percentage shots off. It was all either shots off the pass into high danger areas, rush plays, and then kind of those broken scramble plays dots down where I think some of that, you know, looseness and technique actually worked in his favor because he could just come across and make a save in a scramble situation that might not not necessarily be beholden to the rigidity of like being technically sound. And then his size and athleticism, I think, certainly covered up a lot of the other holes.

Well, and then the prime example, the counterpoint for some goalie coaches would be the double overtime winner. And rather than targeting a route back to your post, being out and shifting outside of your post and creating the opportunity for that puck, bad bounce and all to go in off of you. So there's a little, in everything in goaltending, there is a constant give and take. And to your point about the scramble stuff especially, because I think we talked about this. I think we did talk about this during the Stanley Cup playoffs, maybe not going into the final.

But I think it would surprise some people to know, like Vegas led going into the final, the entire Stanley Cup playoffs in high danger chances for five on five. Expected goals by Clearside Analytics model. But it wasn't all skill. The area they led the most in where they built their margin, They were the number one team by a huge extent when it came to what I would call the quote unquote dirty goals. Rebounds, screens, deflections, broken plays, pucks off legs, body sticks, whatever. Brandon Bussie in the regular season was one of the top goalies in the entire league on screens. One of the top goalies in the entire league on rebounds.

In terms of saving them, he does give up a little more as part of how he plays. but he bails himself out, so to speak, when he does give up a rebound. And part of the rebound is like, listen, the higher the shot quality, the more likely there's a rebound. You're just trying to make a save versus control it. But the areas that Vegas was sort of going to town on throughout the playoffs just happened to be some of his biggest strengths. He's around expected on deflections above it on broken plays,

all the things that Vegas was doing well. He sort of, that played to his strengths. But I wanted to give you a couple numbers on that Stanley Cup final about high danger, low danger. Brandon Bussie when he came in, he saw almost as many high danger, 31 out of the 79 chances. So 40%, 39.2%, and only 32 low danger. It was almost identical. Like 32 low danger, 31 high danger. You know, Freddie Anderson was 19 and 24.

Carter Hart was 45. And this is, I think, a tough thing for him. Because in the Stanley Cup final, he faced more of this type of environment where there weren't a lot of easy feelers. And even he was 4566, so 33%. The league average is 28% during the year. And Carolina goalies live around 35%. And in the Stanley Cup final bus, he was living at 39, 40%. So that higher percentage of high danger shots, like more of what you see is quality, it's reflected in the low expected say percentages.

we talked about it all year. Freddie Anderson finished the regular season with an 868 expected, lowest in the league. And Carolina's goalies were three of the lowest seven. But the ability to manage and handle that shone through come to Stanley Cup finals. And, you know, no more so than in Brandon Bussie's performance. Like, there are not a lot of goalies that manage

just as many high danger is low danger. And he did it. Also, you mentioned that kind of preparation or readiness or however you want to classify it as I think that's reflected in the shot sequencing as well because what's kind of stuck out to me and watching the games is not only the shot totals were low, he faced what, 87 shots in around 11 plus periods of action.

That's quick math, like under eight shots per period, 24 per game. Like that's pretty low even in today's game. But there'd be like 10 minutes stretches of game time where you just wouldn't face anything. And then it would be a flurry of like three or four chances box together in one shift. And I think there's like an element of difficulty within that as well.

And I thought he managed that remarkably well. We can do a full show of Bussie, honestly. But I do want to get into some of the more pressing stuff with regards to the offseason while I have you in preparation for this, especially because the market is so one-sided in this current summer in that any team that's looking to upgrade a net or just change the combination of goalies they have is almost certainly going to be pressed into to do. soviet trades because you look at the ufas that are available and i was looking at it on puckpedia they have 14 goalies listed that appeared in n hl games last year and it's really just seven by my count because that includes jonathan quick who's retiring it includes uh guys like matt murray and feelings copley who played like copply played two games the past two years in the n hl

matt murray played what seven in the past three total includes petter razzic and i think at this point is body has just had enough based on the injuries he's had. James Reimer, who's 38 and really functionally was retired before Ottawa was in a desperate need mid-season, and then Camp Talbot, who's 39 years old. That leaves us with Bobrovsky, Stuart Skinner, Daniel Teresov, Connor Ingram, David Riddick, Eric Comrie, and Vitech. I think the first three I mentioned are the most interesting for a variety of reasons in Bobrovsky Skinner and Teresov, now two of those goalies obviously played on the Panthers last year. And maybe Teresov is the most interesting of the bunch for me because of his age.

He just turned 27 in March, I believe. Relative lack of experience at this level, yet we've discussed briefly, at least in the past, the tantalizing like physical tools he possesses. They made him such a valued prospect a couple years ago. And then I think honestly what we saw from last year where the Panthers still had pretty good defensive metrics for the most part, despite all the injuries they faced. but it wasn't the caliber of team that we saw during their cup season, certainly. And it's kind of become a running theme for the Panthers,

but especially in the regular season, their non-Babrovsky goalie was their best goalie, and that extends to the couple of goleys that preceded them. But in this case, I did think Teresov played remarkably well, given the circumstances. And so he makes for a fascinating off-season signing for whoever's looking to upgrade in that. Yeah. And to bring it back to the Bussie thing, too, like the reason that Daniel Terraceoff sort of was left to rot a little bit in Columbus was because they felt that that underlying skill set would have cost, like he would have got claimed off waivers because everybody knew how good he could be.

But injuries prevented him from getting enough games in until he required waivers. So let me, let me, that list you have there of all of those goals. Teresoff had an exceptional start to the year, was cruising in the top 20 and adjusted save percentage through a good two-thirds of the year. The bottom fell out at the end. I wonder how much of that was sort of Florida pulling the plug on the season

and the environment loosening up around him. How much of it was him not being used to playing that much, especially coming off the injury plague seasons he'd had as a North American pro leading up to that point. But the team that knows the answer most is going to be, I mean, I can look at the numbers to a certain degree, but the team that really knows the answer is going to be the Florida Panthers.

And so they're in the driver's seat here, but they've got that big question. I'm assuming it's no longer a $10 million a year question, but it's going to be significant in term in Sergei Vibrovsky. And at the end of the day, if there's a team that's going to make it all work and surprise everyone at the last minute after we all light our hair on fire trying to figure out where Bob goes,

it's probably going to be the Florida Panthers because that's been their history and M.O. But let me pull it back a little bit in that full list of UFAs. Out of the guys on that list, there are only two that finished above expected. Number two was Daniel Terraceoff and, like I said, just ever so slightly, but a tale of two seasons for him and just a bad finish. Number one was Connor Ingram. Yeah, that's fair.

I would have said Teresov would have been number one on my list of above my own expectations. Yeah. Based on how he performed. I think the Ingram one is an interesting one. I think he would benefit from playing behind a team where Darnal Nurse isn't redirecting a puck past him every other game, which I feel like happened to him and Jari a shocking amount towards the end of last season. Well, defensively, there's all kinds of problems.

You know, I mean, Nurse takes a blunt, bears a brunt of it, but Walman defensively underlying metrics. Matthias Ekholm, as much as we think of him as a rock, like the number of times he's in his goaltenders crease, preventing him from moving into saves. There was, like, just systematically. like almost to the point where like it looked like there were times where guys were trying to do other people's jobs

like it's just it was it was really not pretty until the stretch drive until they made some changes in their system down the stretch and got better but then they weren't able to carry it over into the playoffs but the end of the day and he did have a higher expected uh he was above league average in terms of an 890 expected and the league average finished at 886 but he outperformed it you know not by a huge level but he was the only one of the ufas that outperform their environment last season. And if you're the oil, like, you know, I've been critical of this in a lot of in the past, but I don't think we've discussed it. My criticism of the oilers was that

they never had a look at him before they traded for Jari. And that was, like to me, that was a mistake because, and it's a mistake you get to point out in retrospect because we said it at the time. We said that, like, when they made that trade for him, you wouldn't see it in the American hockey league, but if you give him a shot in the NHL, he has the best underlying numbers of anybody on your team. And they didn't give him. him that shot until after they'd made the trade. And to me, that's just like, it's just a self-inflicted wound. And so, um, now we're sitting here. He's a UFA. Jari's obviously under contract. We've got a coaching change coming. Um, man, like if, and the playoffs did not go well

for him, right? Like, didn't go well for Edmonton in general. Um, and the environment wasn't great, but he didn't have a great playoffs. So you get the sense and we'll see what's happens, but I get a bit of a sense. They're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater there because he didn't have a great playoffs. When based on sort of his underlying profile and including last year, he might be their best option.

So if you were running the goalie department for Team X and you had a need in net, is that how you'd put together your list? You know, obviously depend on the personnel you had in front of you in the system you play and everything because there is nuance to this beyond just kind of evaluating a vacuum. but Ingram and Daniel Tarasov

would clearly be atop this list right? Teresov would be a top of my list for upside and potential for sure. And he's showing signs in the past year of delivering it. He would top my list

because he checks the box as project as well as a guy with more upside to give and because as much as the numbers finished right around expected there was a large portion of the season where they were well above. So he would top my list.

Again, I'd want, to be i want to know what my team this is this is one of the challenges and and you know it sounds like the babcock hiring is is happening now in evinton and so they'll be able they've got two weeks to figure it out but you know again like you can't go out into unrestricted for agency on july first and pick your goal if you don't know how you're going to play if you don't know what you're going to give up and what you're not going to give up if you don't have an idea of your systems like everybody gives up chances everybody does everybody gives up high dangers some teams more than others but it's what types. Like what are you going to take away and what are you going to give up? You do to a certain

extent have that have a choice in that in terms of how you play and you better at this point in the proceedings be able to match those two things in your decision making process on these UFAs before because the whole idea we're so far past it and yet I do get the sense there are some teams that live in that world still. Oh he's a good goalie he'll be a good goalie here. if you're not if you're not frankly if you're not subscribing to clear site because i've seen teams use other companies and make these same mistakes i think that was part of the tris and jari trade um just not good goalie analytics and so and jari was good at the start of the season even by clear sight analytics

but for his career he graded out his league average and i i you know you know you hear things and you wonder if maybe they saw him a lot higher based on some other companies Well, that's what makes the panthers so interesting to me. You mentioned kind of knowing what you're working with and then finding the fit that makes sense based on that. And I think certainly getting Alexander Barkov is going to help a lot just generally being healthy. You mentioned some of the splits down the stretch for a guy like Teresov,

really, especially once it became clear they weren't going to make the playoffs. The final couple weeks, they were really just using an HL lineup. And so I think that plays a role. but the Panthers even at their best, as we saw when they won the back-to-back-back-ups, it's going to be low shot totals, but because of how aggressive they are with their pinching defensemen, when they give up a look, it's generally a clean one in transition, and it's going to require a certain athleticism, I think, from the goalie, and for all the knocks, and I've been quite critical of Bobrovsky in the past,

I thought his reputation got wildly inflated, even in those playoffs, where there was the year where people were talking about it from the con smith, And I was like, I think it's clearly forzing and Barkov in terms of creating this environment that's succeeding in. But undoubtedly, those series against the hurricanes and a couple others where when he would be asked to do something, it would be a supremely difficult save that he would make. And he excelled at that. And so I think for a team that I expect to get back into contender status, assuming health in the Panthers, that's going to be something that they're going to need to figure out because they currently do not have an NHL goalie. under contract. Now, I guess one of the perks of that is not paying anyone in net 10 million the way they were previously. And I think that affords them a lot of flexibility to add pieces elsewhere and really kind of supplement their skater group.

Yeah, I know exactly. And at the end of the day, like when I go down that list of goalies that finish below expected for the regular season, Bob's on it, right? Like 881 expected, tougher environment, even than terrace off, well below league average. So again, not what we're used to seeing from the Panthers, but close to minus 2%, like 81st out of 98 goalies in terms of his regular season ranking. But we've seen, maybe not to that degree, we've seen signs of that in both cup run wins, like both years that he won the cup.

He was below league average during the regular season. And I think part of that might be that environment, you know what I mean? Some of the numbers, it becomes, you know, there are high dangers and there are high dangers that go in every time, right? And they get graded different. but they're just they're just different types so um i don't know where they go i i'm really curious to see but this is an organization that basically built out an entire department with an

eye towards hey like we don't want to be the team that has to go out and get and pay 10 million dollars for sergey bobrowski we want to be the team that builds the next wave and here we are he needs another contract and my hunch is he stays but it's it's it's it's it's it's it's getting within two weeks here, it's getting interesting. All right, Kevin, let's take a quick break here. And then when we come back, we're going to jump right back into it, keep talking goalies and this year's market for the position. You're listening to the Hockey, Ocas, streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.

All right, we're back here in the Hockeyogadio cast, John, Kevin Woodley. We were talking about the goalies that are set to be on the unrestricted free agent market this summer. I think we covered all the main touch points. Was there anything else quickly that you wanted to get to, or do you want to get to some of the other guys whose names are going to be in conversations. Yeah, no, you know, like, I'm really curious to see what Carolina does with Frederick Anderson. I mean, he gets them to that.

I know he didn't end up being the guy in that when they decided, but, you know, I was so busy praising Brandon Bussie for what he did in the cup final. Let's not forget how exceptional Frederick Anderson was up until that point and until any injury and everything he went through. Like, he's been such a good fit there. I don't think people, you know, realize how tough that. environment is in a unique way. So like it wanted to give him a little love. But no, let's let's move on to the the sort of waivers and trade target type guys. And I think, you know, when your team's making these

decisions, it's part of it, right? Like do we go, do we think we can solve this in UFA or do we see somebody who's got to clear waivers this year that we think is better than anything on the UFA market? And let's just get it off waivers. And third part with the cap going up and increasingly teams not wanting to lose guys on waivers. We've already seen one trade in terms of Toronto freeing up a space for Dennis Hill to be who I think would have been lost off waivers for sure. Do we see other teams rather than risk losing a guy just carry three? Because we already had a couple do it. And Lindy Ruff talked about doing it again in Buffalo because they thought they managed it well. So lots of uncertainty as usual around the position heading into this free agent market.

Well, let's quickly talk about Joseph Wol then because you mentioned that he was the goalie, he was moved, get straighted to the Flyers. I think it's an interesting conversation because I think from a talent perspective, I rate him quite highly, and I think we've seen very high highs from him during his short NHL career.

There's, I think, legitimate questions about availability and how reliable that workload would be. Now, for the Flyers, what's interesting is, you know, Vlidar had an awesome year for them upon arrival. This year, it sounds like once he's extension eligible, on July 1st, they're probably going to reward him for it with a five by five type of a deal. And I'm of two minds of it. Like, I think he was good for them.

I think for any goalie, that type of a commitment carries risk with it, as you and I have discussed in the past. But I think the idea of the two of them splitting the net is interesting, especially for a Rick-Tocket team. Now you mentioned the Panthers and kind of building out this department that enables you not to invest in the goalies, themselves because you can kind of build up more cost-effective options that wind up being expensive and maybe someone else picks up on the tab on it and it allows you to spend elsewhere. I kind of view Rick Tawket teams in that way at this point where I do think he is a driver of defensive environment that's going to make life easier for his goalies in terms of predictability and especially down the stretch what they did and getting into the playoffs and then in that

Penguin series of limiting stuff in the neutral zone being so good in transition and kind of taking away some of the more difficult looks, it makes life easier for a guy like Danvlar. And one of the perks of that is that it's not necessarily a plug-in-play situation, but you don't necessarily need to invest the premium in it, not that the flyers did so in this wool trade. Like it was a pretty reasonable acquisition cost, I think, for both sides involved. But I'm curious if you have any takes on that as it relates to Tocquet, the flyers, Wadar, and then expectations for wool going from Toronto to Philadelphia.

Yeah, so Vlidar's expected say percentage was 889. last year, which is above league average, but it's not crazy, right? Like, it's not like he's not one of the guys living in the 900s. And that's where my eyebrows raise. When you're up in that 900, it's like, okay, this is environment, right? Yeah, but you had, didn't you have Flyers goalies before Talk had arrived in like the 600s or something? Yeah, they like, honestly, like, it's made, it's been a massive difference.

But, but again, his goalies have success. The structure allows them. There's a degree of predictability. There are certain things they still have to worry about, but other things they don't. And he talks a lot and openly about only having to play one half of the net. So back doors and cross ice and the things that his teams typically take away for sure the goalies benefit from that. But you still have to play behind it and Bladar outperformed it by a significant margin. You know, like trying to just quickly look here like to tell you how significantly. He was, you know,

he was, his numbers were just a hair below Igor Schistierkin on a per shot basis, you know, adjusted say percentage. He was really good. So I think Joseph Wohl is going to be really good there as well. Wohl's best season was three years ago. He was plus 1.7%. He was like a top 10, top 15 goalie in the league on his performance relative to environment. He got hurt. Since getting hurt, he's changed some things in the way he moves and the way he trains. It looked in his first year off of that a little more rigid at times. a little almost like he was trying to play his stance rather than play goalie. And last year I saw more of the old guy come back, but without the opening and closing that

was leading to some of the injuries. I think he's moving towards a really nice balance of what we used to see, but within a sort of structure that will allow him to stay healthy and talk its system will only increase that. So it's, to me, it's perfect. You know, if Fla-R takes a step back. Like it's just, it's a, it's a perfect balance in a world we're moving towards two. Both of these guys are capable of giving you 45 to 50 games, but with both of them on staff, you're not going to need that. So, um, and it gives times for your prospects to get, like, Sam Erison really struggled last year. And I know a lot of people, he got on a heater post-Olympics. And a lot of people wondered if that would be enough, that sign of life, so to speak, after the

Olympics and how well he played would be enough for them to bring him back. But when I looked at the underlying numbers, most of it was situation driven. Like he had a 900 expected in the, in the starts after the Olympics. It just, the environment got that much better. He wasn't as bad behind it, but he was still below expected. So to me, this is just such an upgrade for them. It gives them options if, you know, if Lidar needs a break. It gives them a guy to push.

Like either one of these guys could end up being a number one. I expect Joseph Wall to have success. And if you're the Maple Leafs, it clears up that spot that we talked about for Dennis Hill to be because when I talk about having an adjusted save percentage around one, that's where Dennis Hill to be finished, almost identical members to what Dan Bladar did obviously in a smaller sample. Well, it's important to note that you mentioned having two guys who can't give you 45 to 50 starts over a season if you need it.

I will note that that would be a first for Joseph Whole in the NHL. He has literally never done that. But to your point, he's not necessarily going to need to in this spot. And I do think like 28 years old, only two years of a commitment, I think it's a, it's a worthwhile look, especially, you know, applying it to both him and in Stolar as both guys who battled health concerns last year. The team around them also just deteriorated to a point defensively where that played a massive role in what we saw in their results as well, right? Like the gap between what the Leaps previously were defensively and then what they were towards the end of last year under Brube and then when they started tanking. was night and day as well. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And the other thing too for the Leafs is, like, this creates space for the future, right? Like, Stollars is, I don't know how many years he's got left. Four more years left for Stolars. Oh, I thought that was a shorter term deal. No, they rewarded them for the remarkable first year he had. And I do wonder whether they explored that instead and there was just a more interested party in wool because I think I just wanted to accomplish the space regardless to your point.

And this was the easiest path towards doing so. Stolars has only had one down season in the past like four. I know the health issues are real and significant. But even last year in his day, that was his down season. I just talked about the UFA list and how few guys actually finished above expected. He was slightly above expected.

He would have been second on the UFA list. So I think if you can get him into the, you know, and manage that body and somehow keep him healthy. And I know that's an if. History of his performance suggests, and let's be honest, if Jim Hiller's the coach, there should be more structure there as well. Vegas or L.A. King's goalies didn't have any problems performing. And hey, listen, part of that is also Ange Coppitar being your captain and your leader,

much like Patrice Bergeron sort of led the identity of the Boston Bruins defensively for years. But I think it's not a terrible bet on. Stoller's bouncing back. And even in his down season, he finishes above expected. Like, he's a guy that could become very attractive to other teams very quickly. All right. Some of the other goalies that you're going to hear talked about in trade circles quite a bit over the next couple weeks. And it certainly starts up top with Connor Hellebuck, although we could have a full conversation

about how real that actually is. But I do want to talk about him a little bit. And then you get into Jacob Markstrom. I'm going to include Aiden Hill, go on down the line, Jordan Bennington, with how good Joel Hofer was towards the end of last year, Elvis Merzleckens, similarly applying to what we saw from Jetgreaves, Sam Montembo. You mentioned the three-goly rotation with what we saw from Dobish,

and then Jacob Fowler needing an opportunity. And then I'm going to include Philip Grubauer there as well, because I know a point near dear to your heart was how he really bounced back last year as well, and that would be an interesting option, but I don't know if you want to rattle through each of those quickly or if there's a couple you really want to focus on, but I'll give you the floor here in terms of the most intriguing options, both in terms of availability,

but also like targets for an enterprising team. Well, I think the most intriguing one is probably Bennington, right? Well, it's hell of buck. Well, okay, yeah, but I just have no information there. I've seen the various speculation. I mean, of course, if he's available, then he's, And I'd be curious to see what the acquisition cost is because at the end of the day, goalies just haven't commanded, you know, huge packages in return.

Then again, like how many have got three Vezna trophies? So, you know, it's, that's a tough one and a heart trophy, right? Like, and now the Olympics to show what he can do, you know, on a big stage after, after not having a same level of playoff success with Winnipeg. But much as I talked about in those years where he didn't have the playoff success, the environment in Winnipeg would change from regular season to playoffs in terms of what they were able to prevent defensively, I would ask the same question.

If you're expecting gold medal Hellebuck, are you providing the same environment? And that's all about, you know, managing screens, managing East-West plays. I think in that gold medal game, Canada generated like three low slot line plays. One McKinnon, one Hellebuck stuff.

stopped routinely and one Hellebuck made a reach back paddle save that is a Dante. Yeah. So, you know, can you create that environment? It kind of goes the same with a lot of these guys. Jordan Bennington is in the same boat. Like at least Connor Hellebuck's regular season numbers are exceptional. A lot of the names on that list you just gave me like Bennington,

79th out of 98 goalies adjusted say percentage. Sam Montembow, 80th. Aiden Hill, 85th. By the way, those three guys were all. all, you know, four nations goalies for Canada and they're all near the bottom of the league last year. Hey, and again, Sergey Bobrovsky's on that list too, right in that group. The difference was Bennington, like Hellebuck, got to show what he can do when the environment's better. So if you're acquiring Jordan Binnington for his winning pedigree, again,

you better have an environment that allows him to be as aggressive as he was at the Olympics. We saw it. We all saw it. But if you're a team that doesn't insulate, the backdoor stuff, like that aggression gets picked apart. And that's where he tends to be at his best. Is he capable of adjusting his game, of course? But the numbers have just, you know, the numbers are the numbers. And in the last couple of years in the regular season, they've kind of fallen off a cliff.

So which guy do you get? And I think that largely, not largely, but in part goes to the environment around them. Aiden Hill's an interesting one. his numbers he may be in the 80s like the other guys but like he's a full percentage point below them yeah his numbers again also just fell off a cliff and injuries it feels like are a part of that like the inability to sort of stay healthy and stay at 100% it's yeah like there's a lot of there's a lot of risk attached to all those again um the risk is bigger i think on hill because of

the contract yep the number and the term It's less so with Montembo. He may not have a cup behind his name, but I think there's only one or two years left on that deal. Again, avoid term. Yeah. So again, avoid term. It's easy.

And Bennington's only one year, right? So it's, you have to look at it in terms of, what were they last year? What have they been over the last three years? And are the things we do, maybe as a goalie coach, even as an instructor, Do we see things in the game that we can alter? Do we think there's a willingness at this point of their NHL careers

to make those alterations? And or does our defensive environment support them in a way that fits their game like Canada's did for Jordan Binnington at the Olympics? I think the most interesting part of the Bennington conversation for me is honestly creating the runway for Joe Hofer because as I mentioned, I was a big fan of his game down the stretch and he winds up playing like, I think he starts 43 games for them last year, but started eating up a larger percentage of them in the back half of the season.

And he was really, really good. And I think ramping him up would be interesting for the Blues for Hellebuck. You know, I don't think it's necessarily limited to what you just said about the Jets in their previous postseason disappointments. I think that's, as we talked about this postseason, becoming a league-wide trend, partly because the games are played a little differently. I think partly because the quality of the teams is that much better. But think about all the broken plays and everything we just talked about in Vegas, Carolina in terms of the degree of difficulty of saves you're going to have to face the further

you get into the playoffs. And that's going to become a bigger talking point. I think that I need to do the math on this, Dimitri, and maybe this is for one of our summer sessions. But I used to talk about how, like, I can't remember the number. off the top of my head right now how like over the previous five years the number of low slot line plays had gone up like 30 some odd percent like east west plays below the hash marks just massive increase it feels especially in the playoffs and in the regular season like broken play is chaos

is increasingly becoming a massive part of offense around the nchel it is undoubtedly i think the the eye test backs that up now you know a common destination i think we've seen link for the panthers because of both their goalies being UFAs and because they're being a natural connection to draw between the two as Helibuck owner of the Panthers, I'm sure he would enjoy life there because I'd expect him to be very good. Next year, I do think back to the conversation we just had, though,

about what Bobrowski's needed to do and that not necessarily lending itself to the strengths for Helibuck in terms of the predictability and in-zone stuff when he can really allow his technique to shine, you kind of have to throw that out the window a little bit and just in terms of fit not to overthink this, but I do wonder whether that's like the most

ideal situation for him. But we'll see. I'm still going to need to see the hell about deal to begin with. And then we can go from there. Do I talk Markstrom a little bit? Sure. I just wanted one, I did want to quickly point out because there was a couple names that I looked up

Hofer's sort of numbers last year and you're right. Like really good. Like, you know, um, top Oh, I don't have it filtered for some small sample guys in there, but like easily a top 20 guy in adjusted save percentage at plus 0.8%. But I was looking interestingly enough,

the names around him grouped around him at that exact same sort of number relative to environment. Dustin Wolfe, Jacob Dobish, Brandon Bussie, McKenzie Blackwood, and Philip Grubauer. Yeah, Gruberra was excellent last year. I think that would be an interesting one. You know, the reason why I wanted to bring up my mind, Markstrom is I've had a lot of conversations with people about like I think people are generally intrigued by what the devils are going to do this year obviously making the change of GM how frustrating and disappointing the past couple years were and trying to figure out what that's going to look like moving forward of course Markstrom gets the two year extension from Tom Fitzgerald before they make the switch and so that hasn't even kicked in yet I do think ultimately though as up and down as last year was and mostly down for him not only just based on reputation but But the fact that it is only a two-year commitment, I think the $6 million cap, it doesn't matter as much because teams are just not going to have so much money to spend and not enough guys to actually give it to that I don't view that as quite prohibitive.

So I've seen some speculation about like buyouts or what they're going to do to explore that. And I do think there ultimately would be an interested party in a trade market regardless because I think it's so much easier to fit in than it was previously. Okay. So how much time do we have here? Because I got one quick soapbox item when it comes to devils and gold. We can go for as long as you want, buddy. Okay. So my quick soapbox is they made a change at their goaltending coach position, Dave

Rangelski, is out. I think you're going to see them build out a department here. And that's a good thing. But the amount of vitriol that I saw attached to Dave Rolski's losing his job was insane to me. And maybe, like, listen, admittedly, personal relationship with him, have gotten to know him over the years. He's an excellent coach.

And as a matter of fact, I had a goalie who's played the league a long time that played for him, say, in my mind, top third of the league for sure, goaltending coach. Jake Allen's numbers last year were the type where if it was a larger sample size, you'd be saying things like, should he have been in the Vesna conversation? He was fifth in adjusted save percentage and even in a smaller sample still squeezed into the top 10 and goals saved above expected. like so this one you know like I think sometimes and I've seen this we saw this in Edmonton with the way the fan base blamed things on the goalie coach like some of the guys that Dave Ruggleski works in the off season and stuff like that and some of the guys that have come up under him like exceptional goaltenders who have nothing but great things to say about his specific role in their path to the national hockey league and how key he was in their development so

you know there's my soapbox um for whatever reason he goes got attached to a lot of moves. Like they moved on some goaltenders. They let some goaltenders go that had success elsewhere. And I think, you know, people somehow attach that to him as if that's his decision on who they move and who they keep. It just drove me a little nuts, especially with how good Jake Allen was. And especially when I checked him with guys that had played under Dave in the NHL

and sort of like, ask. And these are honest opinions because I've had guys tell me like, no, man, like some guys just push pucks out there. This guy's an excellent goalie coach. Jacob Markstrom finished 58 out of 82, below expected minus 0.5, right around Linus Allmark's numbers for the regular season last year. The biggest difference was Jacob Markstrom had an 877 expected save percentage. That was not a good defensive environment for him last year, for him especially. There are some things in his game that he needs to clean up and tighten up.

Absolutely. He relies on that athleticism, has exceptional numbers on those low slot line plays we talked about. But when we look at how he plays them, I think you could do it in a more efficient manner and put less stress on your body. Because his aggression, he relies on that raw athleticism to recover initially aggressive positions. But, you know, it's so to me, there's still a goalie there for sure. I just don't know what they would do if they moved on from him. Like Jake Allen was exceptional last year, but how much of a load are you putting on him? Nico Dawes got three games last year and was really good in those three games.

But in the track record up until last season, he had given up low danger goals at a really high rate, the kind that cost teams. His overall numbers weren't bad, but his low danger numbers were some of the worst in the league. Like, you know, won every second game. And we've used the number before. You lose 85% of the games where your goalie gives up a low danger chance

unless the guy at the other end reciprocates and does he a favor. Like, it's tough to win when you're giving them up that consistently. So maybe there's been an adjustment in his game. Maybe he's improved on some things that allow him to have the success. But if they move on from Markstrom, my question is sort of what's next. So yeah, a little soapbox there on Rolski. I didn't necessarily understand the firing, first of all, and I certainly didn't understand the vitriol.

And I've looked at it all and I've seen what cases they're trying to make. And I feel like this is one of those ones where the, goalie coach is getting blamed for management decisions on who stays and who goes. And when I look at the actual performance of his goalie relative to the environment he was coaching in defensively, it's actually pretty flattering to his job as a goalie coach. Yeah, I think all of that is fair. I also do get the frustration based on the results, especially with the sequencing of last year, right? Like you have that nine goal against game.

You get the extension in season. And now you're in this spot where you've got a new management team dealing with. the goalie whose extension hasn't even started yet, albeit only two years. I was looking up Gru Bauer while you were talking, and not only is it a one-year commitment left, but the actual salary owed is only $4.5 million. And I think that's interesting just in terms of how good he was in the 32 games he played last year. I wanted to talk Sebastian Cosa with you, but we've got to get out of here.

So we're going to have you back on at some point this offseason because I think people are expecting him to be moved. And so maybe we can do a big feature on him then and really get into it. And I'll give you some time to prepare on that as well. In the meantime, I'll let you plug some stuff here on the way out. What do you want to let the listeners know about? Oh, just ingolmag.com. Ingoal magazine, really grateful to my bosses at the NHL and NHL.

And NHL.com for letting me do all the playoff preview breakdowns. Those are very time consuming and they invest the resources to make it worth my while. So thank you to them. I hope people enjoyed them. I think we saw a lot of some of the trends come true, right? throughout the playoffs on some of those goalies. But mostly ingolmagg.com right now. We have a ton of stuff coming this summer,

including, like I said, like if you're a goalie, if you're not a goalie, probably not for you. If you are a goalie, a goalie parent, a goalie coach, we actually sit down with NHL goalies

and break down their footage and they explain what they're thinking, why they're choosing certain depths, why they're choosing certain save selections. We have one up right now with Brandon Busy. We've got three with him. There are over 350 of them with goalies like Hellebuck,

like Busy, like Demco, like all around the league, these goalies give us their time and we use that to help other goalies get better by sharing their insights. There's no better way as NHL goalie coaches have told us to learn to read and play the position better than with a subscription to Ingoal magazine. And it's only 50 bucks Canadian a year. So that's like what, one trip to Starbucks in the States. So we keep it reasonable.

And do you give us your time and we use that to help the listeners figure out what's going on with goalies. So we appreciate it, Kevin, keep up the great work, and we will have you on again at some point in the offseason. If you enjoyed today's show, give us a five-star review wherever you listen, subscribe to the PDOCAST Patreon as well. We're running a off-season blueprint series where we're deep diving the situation for individual teams. We've done the blue jackets and the afts. So far, we're going to have a couple others in the lead-up to July 1st and beyond. That is all for today. We'll be back tomorrow with John Lusitian to talk UFA skaters and get into that with him. Then. Thank you for listening to the Hawkins.

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