The Hockey PDOcast - Catching Up on Every Playoff Series After the Weekend

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by John Matisz to catch up on what we saw in each playoff series over the course of the weekend. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast. My name is Dmitra Filipovich and joining me as my good buddy John Mattis, John, what's common? Not a whole lot. Just coming off the pretty eventful weekend as far as playoff hockey. And plenty to talk about plenty of controversy. Let's get after it. Let's get after it indeed.

It was a fun weekend of playoff hockey loss happened. And we're going to catch up on all of it here over the next hour or so. let's go, let's try to cover all four series, at least to some extent, right? Obviously, we're recording this on Monday. There's another fresh batch of games tonight, which is the beauty of the playoffs. And actually, I really enjoy that. It kind of complicates it from like the content perspective, right, when you're doing these shows and there's such a finite period of time for people to listen.

At the same time, though, the beautiful part is like every new night, it's a new slate, fresh start. And you kind of get back over again. So we'll do Bruins Panthers here to start because we saw that on Sunday. it's still fresh on the mind. There's a lot going on in that series. Certainly we're going to talk about Sam Bennett, both the sucker punch on Brad Marchand

and also the controversial gold-tinder interference goal that tied that game up in game four. But we're at this point now where the Panthers, you know, they lost that game one, why not for a long time off? And since then, they've really read of the ship. They've won three in a row here.

They've got the Bruins and the brink. What are your kind of takeaways from what we've seen recently in this series in terms of how it's played out and what like the most sort of decisive factors, I guess, have been for you. Sure. I think the first thing I jumps off the page, and this relates to Bennett to some extent, is that Boston's kind of trying to beat Florida at their own game. And by that, I mean, being chaotic, you know, pulling the other team into the fight. And it's just not working. I mean, you see Maroon trying to get under Bennett's skin in game four penalty. You see,

Pasternak sucker punch Lundell after a whistle, maybe a bit of an embellishment from Lundel, but nevertheless, penalty. Like, I get where Boston's coming from as far as it's emotional, the whole Marshan Bennett situation with the sucker punch, that's, you know,

gonna set off alarm bells and get you fired up. But like, you got to just play. You've got to let those things go. It's not a regular season game. Every single inch, every single moment, power play opportunity is super, important here. So that's the first thing. And then the second thing I would say is that, and this is kind of weird because now Florida's up 3-1, but as a series progressed, one thing I've noticed is that Boston's done a really good job of causing turnovers in Florida's zone. And you know what? It kind of goes back to game one as well. But especially in game four, I found that Florida was trying to really force breakouts through the middle of the ice. And Boston kept disrupting that. And it turns, into some offense for Boston

and ultimately they don't get the victory but they were up to nothing for whatever it was 35 minutes of the game or something like that so you know something to keep in mind I guess a little silver lining if you're a Bruins fan where I felt like they really identified

Florida's breakout and decision making on the wall and exploited it so I don't know if that's something where the Panthers just you know over the next day or next game or two, depending on how long this goes, decide when they're on the wall there, you know,

we're just not going up the middle unless it's absolutely a perfect scenario when we're going to, you know, clear the zone in other ways off the wall or, you know, eat it maybe even on the wall. So those are two things that jumped off the page for me. Well, tying into that, here's the scoring chance count by game in this series. Game one, 21 to 19 for Florida, and the Bruins actually for a large chunk of that, we're getting the better of the play

and then they built up that lead right and then we saw Florida kind of give one last push in the third period and kind of skewed that a little bit game two 23 to 10 for Florida they absolutely just ran them off the ice game three 17 to 8 now they were 13 to 1 at the point that the Panthers made it for nothing

in the third the Bruins had one scoring chance in the first 45 minutes or so of that game game four 26 to 14 for Florida. So, for those scoring at home, last three games, it's 67 to 32 are the scoring chances by my count. And the reason why I bring that up, it kind of ties into your point about the breakouts. Game one, I thought Aaron Eckblad was catastrophically bad. Like, he just kept making mistakes with the puck and kind of throwing it up,

the middle of the eye, turning it over, and the Bruins generated a lot of their offense that way. In game two, they started off with that one-nothing lead, right? where I think Charlie Coil made a really nice play off of the four check and they scored a tap-in goal off of that. And pretty much since that point in time, the Bruins just have not created any offense whatsoever. Like, they scored a couple goals and gave a little bit of a sort of half-hearted push near the end of game three to make it four to two and DeBrusky even had a chance to make it four-three at one point. But for the most part, their lack of offensive juice, I think, has really been exposed. Now, Florida was one of the best defensive teams in the league this season, right? And it really kind of

made their identity around that. And the genesis, or kind of the, like, the center point of all this for me is in these last three games where Boston's really struggled, the most common matchup, as we would have predicted, has been David Pasternak's line versus Gus Foresling and Aaron Eckblatt. There's been 23, 515 minutes head to head in that time. The shots are 14 to 2 for Florida. And Boston's generated 0.15 total expected goals in that time, 0.15 with David Pastern on the ice. Now, he has two scoring chances in those three games, both were on the power play,

and he scored on one of them in game of four part of this. And you know, you're going to harp on it because I think he was one of the five or six best players in the league is this year, right? The past two years, he's really taken his game to a true superstar level where he's one of the most dominant offensive players in the league. So he's going to be held to that standard. Certainly, you have to apply the context of like there's just so little offensive supporting talent around him. And I think in this series, that's been. really exposed. It kind of was in round one as well when we talked about his struggles. But in this series, it's like playing with, you know, geeky and Pavel Zaka, who's really struggled, they put

the brusk there in game four. There's just so little talent around him to get him to pocket and afford him opportunities to play off of it and then wind up open in the offensive zone and actually get a scoring chance. So that's certainly part of it. But Florida's done a masterful job, similar to what they did in Nikita Kutrov in round one, or really just taking away his preferred sort of outlets for creating chances and he's gotten nothing. And when you take that away, it's like,

all right, Boston just isn't really going to score beyond kind of point shots by Brandon Carlo going in. Like they have no real actual chance of scoring and that's been the story of the series for me. Well, Marchand didn't play game four,

right? So their second best offensive weapon is just non-existent there. And things get, we talked with this last time when I came on and we were talking Toronto, but Boston. Like things get real dicey

as far as high end skill in Boston. Austin's forward group after Pastornak and then after Marsh Chan. And just to jump on the Pastor Nat bandwagon there, I just looked it up before we came on. 11 postseason games so far, 14 high danger attempts. That's all he's got. And high danger doesn't necessarily mean best looks. We talk about it all the time on the show about expected goals models publicly not being great.

But that tells you where he's shooting from. He's not getting to the slot at all. This was a problem against Toronto. It continues to be a problem against Florida. And I should mention those are five-on-five high danger attempts. He's obviously found some success on the power play. But it's a huge storyline, Pasta versus Barkov slash Forsling and the other linemates there. I thought coming in the series, that was a pretty obvious matchup to focus on.

And it's really borne out to be true. And similar to the other East series, I feel like. 3-1 is almost selling this series short because it's been a bit weird in terms of penalties in terms of like, you know, the games at times have been closed at times of a blow. It's like I feel like it could have easily been 2-2, even though, as you noted, Florida's got this real stranglehold on scoring chances, but Swayman's been so good. And obviously, special teams always kind of throws things off and can have a game goal to one team and next thing you know is 3-1.

So pretty interesting series from that perspective where when it boils down to it, I think the Bruins lack of skill and game-breaking ability up front is really hurting them. Well, to your note on that, I generally prefer the high danger attempts to the raw scoring chance numbers on natural statuary. I just find they're much more reflective of what you would conventionally describe as a scoring chance, right? they're just so, not to keep the labor in this point, but they're just so busted this postseason. I completely agree with your point about Passernac having a very suppressed total relative to his standards.

Just as an example, because I was thinking about it during the weekend, Will Cooley scored a really nice breakaway goal in game four of his series against Carolina, right? Capocco Bakes his play along the wall, hits him with a stretch pass, Cooley goes in alone scores. That did not register as a high danger chance. I'm pretty sure it was a pretty high danger opportunity for him, I'd say, on a one-on-one

breakaway against the goalie. But they pretty much just like almost randomly seem to prioritize. Like anything that's a wraparound, a rebound or a tip is the most dangerous play in hockey, apparently. And then actual rush shots like that are like, eh, I don't know. And so I think that's certainly got blind spots in terms of the category types it seems to prefer. But yeah, I'm with you on all of that.

And it's, I mean, it's tricky, right? because I think the officiating this postseason, acknowledging that it's really difficult job, right? Like, especially in the postseason, there's so much going on. I think we're all in agreement that I much prefer them actually calling the rules as they do all season, right? Because they exist for a reason. You're kind of conditioned to play a certain way. And then in trying to call fewer things in the pursuit of not influencing the outcome of games, that's exactly what they wind up doing, right, because it's going to benefit one team most likely than another who's committing the infractions and getting away with it, right?

That's going to obscure what's happening in the game. At the same time, if they're calling everything, that really boggs down the game as well, right? Like, I think we've seen a bunch of games as postseason where they're calling everything. And the idea of power plays and more goals that I way is fun. But then you actually watch it and you're reminded that five on five hockey is the best version of hockey. And I just want to see no whistles and them just playing back. and forth, right? So it's tricky in that sense. In a game like game four, for example, obviously the Bruins are up to one. Jeremy Swimming's unable to make a play on the rebound.

I think by the letter of the law, it's undoubtedly golden interference, right? His own teammate gets pushed into him. He cannot make a play on the puck, even if you think he wouldn't have been able to stop that rebound. That's kind of irrelevant to the argument because we just see that for all the talk about how like, oh, you might as well flip a coin on golden interference calls. I think they made it pretty clear the past couple years that if you're in your creases of goalie and you can't play the puck, that's generally going to be viewed as gold interference, right? And that's kind of what happened on the play. The thing is, Florida was just dominating all game. Like, despite the scoreline, they had the puck the entire time. They were creating everything. And I'm a

big believer in creating your own fortune in that sense as well, right? Like, if you're just constantly in the offensive zone, buzzing and attacking, you're probably eventually going to wind up getting some stuff that goes your way, whether it's a lucky bounce or a call like that. So that doesn't excuse what happened there. And I think Bruins fans certainly have a right to be very upset with it. But I think like in the grand scheme of how hockey's played and what's going on this postseason, it's also not really an aberration by any means. Well, it's always that awkward thing where a huge component of the review is what was the call

on the ice? Was it a goal on the ice or was it a no goal? And then they sort of worked from there. So I wonder, you know, if it's called off, if it's a no. goal to start what happens there in terms of the review and kind of how do they overturn it. I would assume they wouldn't. So it's difficult. But yeah, it's like I, as much as you know, Bruins fans will spit out their coffee, me saying this,

you got to give props to Sam Bennett. Like, sure, you know, the sucker punch was dirty and, you know, the game four goal ends up obviously killing the Bruins and their momentum in the series, but the guy produces in the playoffs, and he finds a way to live around the edges, much like Brad Marchand usually does. And it's obviously ironic that that sucker punch was landed on Brad Marchand. So it's kind of par for the course in a lot of ways.

Like Bennett always steps up in the playoffs, and the fact that he's only played four games in the postseason and has had such a big impact is pretty good evidence of that. Well, regardless of who happens to, we should be clear, like, never want to see anyone get hurt. And also, I don't think under any circumstances, we have to give it to Sam Bennett at the same time. I see what you're saying in terms of, like, the imprint on it. I do think it's interesting. Florida's approach does feel much different this year compared to last year, right?

There's still certainly a highly chaotic team. There's a lot of shenanigans, I think particularly in some of these games that can get out of hand. they're going to be very willing to embrace, like, fully doubling down on all of it, regardless of if they're up big or if they're down big. The difference to me, though, is, like, last year, they were sort of, they were clearly the underdog, right, especially round one. They went into that matchup as, like, against a historically great regular season team, and they're down three, one.

And then the kind of narrative became, like, they're just trying to sort of upset the apple cart, right? And so they're, like, doing all of these crazy things to make teams uncomfortable and make them drag them into the deep end playing their game. This postseason, in both these series, in my opinion, and I think that's sort of the betting markets reflect this, but anyone to watch the regular season would agree, they've went into both of them as heavy favorites, right?

And so I think your approach in that way changes in terms of the way you sort of, I guess, conduct yourself or the way like you're viewing your opponent and what you need to do to win as opposed to what happened last year, right? So I do think that's kind of interesting in terms of like just the change approach and the difference between that because I think that's sort of been reflected a little bit. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot to like about the team. I think what Barkov's been to do it has been

sensational, right? Because in previous post seasons, like last year, he was playing such heavy defensive matchups where he wasn't necessarily producing much offensively himself. For a while, he got a reputation as being a player who wasn't very productive in the postseason. And whether it was game five against Tampa this year, where he could really just like emphatically shut the door on them in that clincher or game two in this series where he had the four point game and which just dominated every single shift he's been phenomenal in these big moments for this team and it's kind of cool to see

him sort of put it all together in that way and finally start getting some of the shine that he might not have been getting previously yeah it's tough to be bark off sometimes as far as what's on your plate and what's left offensively um but to circle back on what you're saying before about the panthers and what they bring on the table. I think that their secret weapon, it's not very secret, but they're sort of secret sauce, is that they're just so versatile offensively.

Like, defensively, they're always going to give you a pretty high baseline, especially when Barowski's playing well. Like, I think they're always going to be okay there at worst. But then the offense, if the offense is humming, I mean, they're great with rebounds in terms of point shots,

screens and trying to pick up the garbage. They're great off the cycle, whether it's high or low. you know, forecheck rush, like they, they just bring so much to the table

and they come at you in waves. So that's, that's part of this, this too, part of the equation here too where they're just a lot to handle. They really are.

My one final note in the series and then we can more on to the next one is, I'm sure he's playing hard and once they get eliminated, we're going to get this, like, laundry list of surgeries that he's going to go through. But Charlie McIvoy's play this postseason

has been really eye-opening in terms of just how bad he's been. And similar to what we said about Amiro, who's obviously acquitting himself much better in his role, like his responsibility is just off the charts because he's playing so many minutes and doing so much. And I love Mason Lower Eye, but he's like playing with a rookie inexperienced defenseman

and he's eating up all of these minutes. And so I think that's part of it. And I'm sure he's banged up. But whether it's kind of the puck handling and some of the turnovers he's made, I think that's probably more excusable, because of all those things. I think his decision making in how,

and you saw it in game four, right, where he makes that big hit on Sam Reinhart in the first shift, right? And that's great. Except you see, like he's constantly dragging himself out of the play to try to make these physical kind of quote unquote playoff hockey plays and throw hits.

And oftentimes it winds up being to the detriment of his team where he's just out of position now and the Panthers all of a sudden have a three on two or two on one or a break going up the ice and he keeps doing it. It happened on the Barcove game winner where he kind of pinches at center ice tries to throw a hit, realizes

he mistimed it, the puck gets past him and then now all of a sudden he's wildly out of position he's got a forward defending and Barcove's able to take the puck straight to the net and score. And you get a lot of praise once you land that big hit and that's what you want to see from your defenseman in the postseason.

But the other side of it I think is happening far too frequently. And I think that's been like a major issue for them in terms of you look at his performance when he's been on the ice and I think that's been a big reason why. Well, I just looked it up while you're talking on natural statric. He's been, he's delivered the most hits in the playoffs with 48 and he's been hit the most in the playoffs. He's taken the most at 65.

So, I mean, that says a lot right there. It's like there's too much physicality going on. Like obviously there's, there's a use for that. I'm sure within those hits delivered, there's some really meaningful ones that cause turnover. that disrupted a play, but I don't know if you ever want to be, especially a player as important as McAvoy is to everything that Boston does. I don't know if you ever want to be at the top of both of those categories at the same time. Yeah, he's been on the ice for five of Florida's eight five-on-five goals in this series,

and I think it's been a big issue for the Bruins. Any other notes on this series, or do you want to get into Rangers Hurricanes? Yeah, let's do it. So there's been a lot of talk about New York's kind of specialty. team's prowess this postseason and in this series in particular, right? And I think a lot of that is deserved. They've had 18 power play minutes in the series. They're up before nothing in that time. They've been short-handed for 26 and a half minutes or so. And it's tied 1-1 in that time. Actually, Carolina's only power play goal came as the game winner in game four and they finally

broke through. But the Rangers have gotten break after break seemingly short-handed against this hurricane's power play. And it's been highly alarming from Carolina's perspective. So Newark's dominated on the special teams. I think it's been of a bit of a red herring for me in all of the coverage and analysis of this series, though, because for all of that and the shot counter being heavily in Carolina's favor in a lot of these games, you look, and New York's either matching them or getting the better of them and scoring chances. And at 5-15 in the series, they're up 9 to 8. And so on the one hand, it's like, that's a very close margin.

And a lot of these games have been very close, and Carolina keeps losing. these like tantalizing coin flip games seemingly every postseason. But also I, it's just kind of bizarre to me, I guess, that it's been framed so much through the lens of, wow, New York's kind of these like special teams merchants and this is all they do. And then you look up and it's like, oh, they're getting more goals and scoring chances at 5-1-5 too. I think that's part of the reason why they're up 3-1 in the series.

Well, and I, before the series started, I looked up at, looked up each team's 5-1-5 of scoring. And obviously, Carolina gets a ton of credit for how they control play at five on five. And that happened to the regular season. It continues to happen in the playoffs to some extent. But New York scores a ton of five on five goals as well. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I believe both of them were top five teams and goals scored at five on five. So it's not like we're on.

New York wasn't this season. No? No. No chance. Yeah. No, maybe in the past. I'm not sure what their previous numbers were like this year. They weren't for sure.

though they were, I think they barely broke even in terms of a 5-15 goal share. But at the end of the day, they, they just operate in a different lane than Carolina as far as they wait for the quality opportunity versus the quantity versus shooting for quantity and have the high-end finishers to actually convert on those. So, like, I don't know, it's kind of one of those things where when, the Rangers goal scorers are feeling it. They can be super dangerous in any situation. I mean, we even saw it like you mentioned.

They got a short-handed goal, Crider there. And five-on-five, they've done all right in the series. So if the power play's humming and, you know, they're getting enough good looks at five-on-five, they should be fine. Well, the power play is humming. The penalty kill has been really good all year, and I think that's really important when you're going to be a top powerplate. I also have a penalty killer control its own

because you're going to get into some game management situations where sometimes if you're getting power plays yourself, you're also going to have to kill some on the other end, and they've been able to do that. Yeah, they're 21st in 5-15 scoring this year, tied with the Ottawa. I don't know where I got that from. My bad.

Listen, we're going to praise the Rangers here. I mean, they're up through one. They're playing really well, but let's not go too far. Yeah. No, but I do think, and you've seen it in the series, where the hurricanes obviously have a phenomenal defensive structure and they don't really give up much, but I think it's a testament to the way the Rangers play

and also how they've kind of forced Carolina a bit out of its comfort zone because of this accumulation of how they're turning shots and the scoring chances into goals, that Carolina is maybe playing a bit out of their element. And what's happened is New York's creating a bunch of odd man rushes even at 5-on-5, right, where they might not. not have shots for a couple minutes, and then all of a sudden you look up, and it's a two-on-one.

And it's not even necessarily just one line. It seems like the third line is just as likely to have that opportunity as the first or second line. It's kind of been a team concept consistent throughout for them. So I think what they've done offensively to Carolina's vaunted defense structure is really impressive. I think what they've done if I-1-5 has been underreported, I guess, in this series. And so it's interesting.

It's going to be very tight. I'm sure game five is playing tonight. It's going to be the same as it's been to all series, but I think there's a lot going on there. And the one final kind of point I had on this was I had Kevin Woodley on last week, and we were talking about Igor Sturkin and how good he is with his pads and kind of blocking off the lower part of the net and how that can cause frustrations to Carolina

because of how they typically like to shoot an attack. And you actually saw it in game four where Stefan Aeson scores off a rebound. And what he does is he's coming through the slot. and he actually finally lifts the puck on the rebound, and it winds up getting by Chesterkin. And a lot of these rebounds that we get frustrated with by them are sort of quick attempts where they're just like poking at the puck and sweeping it towards the goalie,

and that just doesn't really work against Chesteriken. And so it's a bit counterintuitive because I think you're generally trained once you get that rebound to quickly get it back on that before the goalie can recover into position, right? But I think in this case, what Woodley was saying, and I think it's bang on is they almost need to retrain themselves to take a second to dust the puck off and try to pick a spot in the net as opposed to just kind of blindly throwing it back. And it might sometimes lead to a New York defender recovering in time and preventing a rebound

or them missing the net and leaving the zone and kind of killing their cycle opportunity. But those are some of the risks that I think they need to take offensively if they actually want to score. And you look at all the goals they scored in game four where they finally broke through and scored four, goals for the first time against you Sturkin in forever and all of them were on lifted box that were very well executed and not just kind of randomly thrown on net right so um i think that's going to be a big key for them moving forward someone's listening to the woodley's takes here i think everyone's in the urcane's organization yeah no i think that that was an astute take at the time and it's uh it's looked pretty good now i and on the on the side of carolina i mean

Gensel's the only guy with multiple goals in this series for them, only guy with double-digit high danger attempts. He's got 15. He's exactly what Carolina's needed, and he's kind of carried his load. So it's a little unfortunate in that sense from Carolina's perspective, where you go out, you make this big splash, and things are going well individually with Gensel. But for whatever reason in the second round, you just can't seem to get over the hump. But I realize it's been four one goal games, you know, two of them have gone to O.T. It's very much a coin flip series in a lot of ways, tightly contested, really quite an entertaining series. Good goal-tending on both ends.

But that's got to be a little frustrating where I guess you'd rather have it than Gensel not playing well. But there's something about that where it's like, okay, it seems like Carolina made the right choice here at the deadline. They finally put their chips in. But then for whatever reason, this second round is really giving. in problems overall. No, well, it's frustrating because it kind of on the surface, all the same stuff appears to be happening again. But listen, like I've, you and I have done shows here,

the past couple of old seasons. I've done plenty of my takes against the hurricanes. It's like I'm very critical of their offensive approach. I think what we're seeing right now, though, while it is frustrating, is kind of hardening in a way because it actually, I think, does reinforce everything we've been saying. And the reason why,

I point that out is I don't, while they're getting the shot volume, but not necessarily winning the scoring chances, I don't think it's the case of what it's been in the previous years where it was their own undoing where like they just were so stubborn in their ways and it cost them. And I don't think it's as simple as well. They should just try to create more scoring chances because I actually do think they are trying to do that by design this year. We documented it throughout the second half of the year, how they started playing differently. They brought in Jake Gensel, who certainly helped that. And you look in this series, you noted it. He's got three goals, two assists. I've got him down for 17 scoring chances taken and eight created. Like he's easily leading the series in both those categories. And they essentially, like I think what it's reinforced is they're on the right track and they actually just need more of them. Like unfortunately, it's easier said than done because he's a phenomenal player.

And it's hard to find guys like him. But I do think it does reinforce that idea that it's like, this is the way direction they need to go in as a team. Now, it's tricky because they're trying to do it in a very short, condensed period of time, and they're going up against the Rangers team who, this is essentially their ethos. Like, they've internalized it and they've done it and mastered it over the years. And so it's tricky for Carolina to all of a sudden become that team, but I do think that's kind of what's going on here.

So I'm actually taking the other view of like his performance and how he's looked and what it's meant to them. I think it reinforces that this is what they need more of as opposed to, oh, man, we paid for this rental and we're actually not getting the job done anyways and we made a mistake. Well, for sure. Can we talk about Lefranier and a little friend A? Oh, absolutely. He's been awesome.

Very assertive, very confident. Like, one word that comes to mind when I watch him right now and I understand he's out of breakout season, this isn't happening overnight. But he seems so comfortable and kind of he's found a role in the NHL. He's found a way to impact the game in his own unique way. and, you know, four goals, all of them in the second round, 10 points and 10 games. He's finishing in tight. He's finishing off the rush.

I thought Harnor Ryan Singh is a great play-by-play guy, and I think he's actually been so good for this series on Sportsnet, because he really, like, his call really is suited for playoff hockey. But he called that bang shot on Anderson, for two to school. And I thought that it was actually the opposite. I thought that it was played perfectly by Lefrenier and that he, that was actually a lot of skill.

There was a little luck involved in that. And I thought it was perhaps misplayed by Anderson, but still, you know, the shooter there knew exactly what he was doing. And again, just a guy dialed in and someone who's toe dragging and just trying everything in his tool bag and most of it's working. Well, on the goal, they scored out the rush goal, you're kind of referenced there in game three. The big one was such a cool goal because it involved everyone on that line that's been so good all year and actually like perfectly demonstrated why they've been so effective.

And it was like Trojik making this little puck protection play to get the puck to Panarin, and Aaron making a great pass off the rush, and then Luffernier just hammering at home. And so you kind of saw all the little steps and nuances to it and it resulted in a goal. That's always cool to see. John, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we'll keep going. We'll jump around and cover some other series as well. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.

Right, we're back here with John Mattis on the PEDCast. John, we did the 2E series. Let's talk a little bit about the West ones and cover them as well and kind of what happened over the weekend. I would start with Stars apps because I love this series so much and everything about it. And every game has been so entertaining. even in game three where it was a bit kind of slower pace, fewer goals, just the chess match between these two teams and how they stack up against each other

and sort of the feeling out process. But then when you see them in their episodes, it's so fun to watch. There's so much to unpack there. What are you seeing from this one? What are you enjoying? Give me some stuff on Starsabs. Well, I feel like we're seeing the best of Cam O'Carran, a lot of instances here,

whereas in the regular season, you know, he's still a Norris finalist. see the bar is very high. So when he's a quote unquote struggling or not having a fantastic year, he still registers very highly. But, you know, he's such just in this series, like, Miro's a fantastic player, but like I just don't see a peer on Dallas's back in. And, you know, you can go across the league and good luck finding too many players that stack up against McCar when he's really on his game.

So that's really stuck out. and you know just Colorado's star power went like their fastball is just super dangerous when they're all sort of firing on all cylinders

not to use too many cliches here I just feel like they're just unbeatable it's just a matter of can they bottle that enough throughout a series that's that's always the big question mark with them well they were incredibly frustrated in game three because I thought they came out really strong.

And they were certainly, I think they took games one and two to heart in terms of how they fell behind early and didn't want to replicate that. And so they were really throwing everything they could at the stars. And I thought Jake Onger was phenomenal at the start. But as that game went along, you sort of saw Dallas's structure. And I'm with you on the one hand where it's like individually, you're not really going to be able to match it. But from a team perspective, I do think this is why this is such a fascinating matchup, because the stars entered the third period. period up to one. And they just proceed to do something to the abs, which I think is almost, I can't really recall seeing it very much. I know like Seattle gave them some issues last year,

but that was such a shell of what Colorado is right now and has been in the past offensively. They proceeded to hold Colorado to zero scoring chances in the entire third period of game three. And that was while defending that lead. That was only the second time all postseason. I've tracked every single game so far that that's happened. The first one was Florida doing it to Boston in game one, or sorry, game three period one the night before. So we got them back to back. But that was just a defensive masterclass. And so I thought that was incredibly notable to me. I know that Tanev got finally beaten by Nathan McKinnon off that little move that he, did he hit him with the crossover? If you give him that much space into the zone, he's going to

get you, got past Amico Ranton and banged home the rebound. But as, but then you saw later on in that game, the most underrated part of Tanev's game, I think, is his breakout ability. in terms of not necessarily, you know, always doing the zone exits himself. Usually it's making life easier for his partner by absorbing a four checker and then getting it up the ice to him. In this one, that's exactly what you saw where he takes a big hit and he knows he's in the train tracks and he's going to get hit. But he makes a play up the ice.

It springs that three on two. They wind up executing the rush to perfection and that wound up being the game winner. And so, yeah, that really stood out to me just the team performance in general. And now we're going to game four tonight. and I think it's going to be another really fun one. And I fully expect Colorado to, you know, have internalized what happened as that game went along and make adjustments. We'll see Jonathan Druin might even come back.

So I think that's going to be a huge boost for them offensively. But yeah, I'm fully expecting like we've seen a lot of back and forth in this series so far. And I imagine that'll be the case the rest of the way. Yeah, this is going seven games, right? Like, let's not get ourselves here. It sure seems like it. And just to circle back a bit on TANF, it's almost like we as, and I use the we as just the hockey world

almost did him a disservice by focusing on the shot blocking and the shutdown ability over the years where this breakout ability, this first pass has been there for a long time and obviously some people have noticed some people have focused on it, but it's kind of funny how that works out.

From a big picture perspective, you get labeled as one type of player and we just assume you can't do the other things that say an offensive defenseman excelled. at. But Tenevas really found a way to like, I guess, tow the line of, of, you know, being part of the breakout, but not leading it as you, as you mentioned. Or sorry, not rushing the puck out himself or being sort of that, that guy who stirs the drink on, on the transition. But he's a

key cog of it. So, and the fact that he's doing it at this age, like is, is really impressive. There's a lot of guys who take a beating like he has over his career that really tail off in the, uh, in the back half of their 30s. And I think he's like 34 so I guess he's not quite there but still he has a lot of miles on him and he's still super effective I will say one of my just bringing up things that we kind of noticed and and want to alert listeners to when they're watching these games might not see it in game four we'll see he doesn't do it necessarily every time but if getting into donov outless times this season has either tried or successfully completed a zone entry with his back turn to the play he's like backing into

the zone and doing so sometimes not even like to protect the puck just doing it just skating backwards and just kind of going in the zone and I was like oh yeah that it's it's the most like random niche thing but if you see that I want you to do the Leo decaprio meme where you're pointing in your TV and being like that there we go I saw it um I did have a question here on the discord and we should shout out the discord and everyone in there uh and if you're not in there yet somehow and you're listening to this invite lake is in the show notes please join us roboo says how does Dallas deal with Joe Pavelsky right now? Seems like he's slowing any line he's on.

Ben Johnson, Pavelsky have an 8.3 expected goal share at 5-1-5 in this series against Colorado. Against Vegas, Pavelsky struggled playing with Hinton Robertson, and now that they're not playing with him, they're doing well with Stankoven instead. Could slash should they move Pavelsky even further down the lineup. Now, it's tricky because I think they sort of acknowledge how much you are struggling by splitting that lineup, and they have looked significantly. better with Stankov and doing all the Logan Stankov and stuff and helping put them in position

succeed. Unfortunately now, it's sort of like nuking their best offensive player in Wyatt Johnston as a result. And it's tricky for a coach because on the one hand, I commend Peter Burr for being willing to embrace data and information and then make lineup decisions accordingly. Yeah, this is such like a respected veteran player that's a huge part of your team. And it's just really tough to like move them down even further. And you've got that third line they've been using that's much more of a rush line already. So then I think the only way you could even proceed with a further move down would be like moving him down to the fourth line and potentially using the Donov instead who has played really well offensively so far. So maybe that's an option. But yeah, it's a pretty

extreme measure regardless of how bad it's been and how the result, how poor the results are for a coach like on the fly like this to to make that sort of a change considering like what that represents, I guess, to the team. Yeah, the stakes are so high, right, that you don't want to rock the boat too hard with a veteran. But I don't know, Pavelsky, from my interactions with him, from what you hear about him, he seems like the guy that would be self-aware enough to go, I don't have it right now. It's best for the team if I slot further down the lineup. I could be wrong, but he certainly strikes me as someone that as competitive as he is,

as much as he believes in himself, probably knows that things have kind of fallen off a cliff here. And they kind of have, right? Like, it's been pretty ugly in the playoffs. And I wouldn't say we saw all those signs in the regular season. We saw some of them. But yeah. It's been bad. I mean, it's, I'm kind of watching through my fingers right now.

And that really bums me out because I've long loved his game. And he was so effective up until very recently, right? Even as you said, like, I think towards the latter stage of the regular season, he kind of started to show some signs of losing his efficiency. but he was still productive and it still wasn't one of those things where even if he's not at his best you're like sad every time you see him out there

but in this series he botches the breakaway in game one or two I think it was game two game three he falls trying to forecheck Jack Johnson then kale McCarr just abuses him on the breakout and makes him fall again behind the net

he had another botch breakaway where like it seemed like he was alone and then all of a sudden the puckbound Stought him and he looked like he was skating in in quicksand and couldn't get up the ice. And yeah, it's tough because like I don't want to speak too poorly on him just because he's such a respected player. And I've loved him for so long. But also it's just really, really tough to watch right now.

And I'm not sure if it's just an age thing. I'm sure he's banged up as well. Also with his skill set, particularly around the net, if he's able to get in those positions, you'd like to think he will still find a way to get on the score sheet to make an impact even though he hasn't yet so far this postseason. But right now, I know they're up to one

and they've played well in this series, but we talk about how small the margins are in the postseason and you know Colorado's certainly going to give a pushback here. And I think at some point, if this continues, they will have to make an extreme decision like that and move them down the lineup just because, I mean, they're one of the few teams in the league that has actually equipped enough with enough players

to do that and not, it not, you know, be really tough to argue with just because they have so many other options they could play there instead. Yeah, and this ties into what we were saying about Tanna, like, Pavelsky's been almost an anomaly as far as him having his best seasons in his 30s. I mean, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but there's been some like outlier years as he's edged towards 40. And I don't know, maybe it's an injury.

If that's the case, certainly demote him because, you know, there's at least a reason to promote him like that he's limited. But either way, I think the Donov, your idea of putting Dodonov up there with Johnston and Ben makes a ton of sense. And, you know, between Steele, Smith and Povelski, maybe he can create some havoc and try to get Pavellsky in front of goalies for those tips, what he's a master of. Okay, let's do, let's close out here today with some Canucks Oilers. We saw the Canucks take game three on Sunday night. What are your, what are your kind of feelings on this series? Because it's certainly been hotly contested.

And we saw things kind of blow up after the game as well. We'll see what happens with the, with the Carson Sucy hearing. But it's been a fascinating series because we're sort of seeing, I guess, the reasons why we're so high on the Oilers and also the sort of the red flags in terms of the CC-Narris pairing, kind of the lack of depth, how much they have to, especially when they're playing, like Trisadle and McDavid are playing so. well together with Hyman and that's great but now they're getting to this point where

I think Chris Knoblock even acknowledged after the game they're using them way too much and they're not getting depth scoring and so it causes other concerns throughout the lineup so yeah I don't know what do you're what do you takes on the series well I know it's not a new development but the

CC nurse pairing is I feel like it has to be broken up at this point as far and I know there's not a ton of good options as far as alternatives but it's gotten to to the point where if I'm Chris Knoblock, I've got to be exploring every single option. I mean, it's ugly out there. And I don't really know if it becomes, you know, at Coleman, Bouchard, who are so good together, get split up just out of necessity here.

Because you're losing those nurse CC men at such a lopsided, to such a lopsided extent that it's, you know, it could cave them. It could, it could ruin the series for them. they are down 5-1 in 45-5-15 minutes. So those guys on the ice so far are 3-3 games. They're up 4-2 in the other 100 minutes. So it's, yeah, it's tough. I will say so the past two games after Dreis Idol was banged up in game one, right? We've seen them go pretty much full-time with that loaded up top line.

And they've played 36 minutes or so together at 5-15. They're absolutely crushing in that time. But we're getting into a point where, like, McDavid's playing nearly 30 minutes. Dreis-Etel's playing 28, 20, 20, And so that's someone to monitor as the series continues. And I wanted to shout out, despite the fact that they're controlling so much territorially, they're getting shots or getting chances, they're getting expected goals, all that. McDavid's played 33 and a half minutes at 5-on-5 in the series so far versus J.T. Miller head-to-head.

And the goals are 1-0-Mank Uber in that time. And so I wanted to shout out J.T. Miller, a player whose performance I've been critical of in past years because I felt like despite the talent and despite his reputation and the way he was talked about, I felt like the attention to detail sometimes, particularly off the puck wasn't there. And then you'd get to the point where he would like lash out and yell at a teammate and people would be like, oh, he's so fiery. What a competitor. It's like, all right, well, maybe that didn't need to happen. Now you're seeing on this team that's actually competing and the effort he's putting in and how well he's playing both on and off the puck where he's creating so much offensively.

He was their entire offensive engine in round one against Nashville. Any offense they created, albeit a very limited amount, was directly responsible. because of his play. And then now in this series, he still got the goal. He got, I think, his four primary assists, but he also is kind of excelling in this head-to-head defensive assignment. And so that's cool because it's an extreme amount of effort. And so far, he's checking all the boxes.

Yeah, he's such an interesting player. You mentioned the firiness. You know, he's proven season after season that he can put up points. and in a vacuum, good defensive player when you watch certain clips, but then you watch others and you question what's going through his head and, you know, obviously a certain type of personality, right?

Like, let's face it, there's probably only one J.T. Miller in the NHL as far as what he brings to the table in that respect. I mean, you've got to give props to what Vancouver's done without Demco. I mean, it was easy to or could have been easy to write them off after their starter goes down, a guy who had a Vesna caliber season and to be in the spot that they are in the second round.

I think that alone, you know, just kind of zooming out for a second is one, a credit to Rick Toccid in his system, and two, a credit to just the players hunkering down

and the goal tending holding up. Yeah, especially when the guy on the other end of the ice has a sub 880 percentage in the series. It's really a really highlighted. that yeah on the Miller note I said one goal for primary assists only Quinn Hughes played more than him on the Canucks in this series and he hasn't taken a single penalty in that time as well despite going head to head with McDavid so yeah it's been a phenomenal effort we will see the reason why

I kind of noted you know the the Susie storyline here is because they've been using in those minutes against McDavid they'd be using him and my him and Myers in that shutdown pair right where I think they've played nearly twice as much as any other defense pair against McDavid and if he he's out, I'm curious to see what they'll do because I don't, as well as Sadorov played this postseason, I don't think Rick Tocke necessarily wants to play him and Myers together because that's very chaotic and the results reflected as much when they played together in the regular season after Sadorav was acquired. So we'll see what happens with that because obviously if Sousie's out, that leaves a big hole and then how do you fit that against McDavid? So a lot to unpack there. But yeah, yeah,

It was interesting because we also saw in game three where the numbers were heavily skewed in Eminton's favor and they certainly hit the post a couple times. And Shilov made that sort of last second playoff the goal line where he gloved the puck and stopped it from going in. So Edmonton did get their opportunities and I don't want to make it sound like they didn't. At the same time, though, especially in that third period, you're able to see why Vancouver has been so good at protecting leads this season. And like when they're able to just kind of get in their structure and not even worry. at all about what they're going to do offensively and essentially just kind of pack the paint and be disciplined. It's really tough to break through that, right?

Edmonton had that one power play late. And like this is to the absolute extreme. And it was kind of funny. But like, Tyler Myers is just on one knee essentially just crouching down, blocking the cross ice pass. And he's just like down on one knee for what felt like nearly the entire power play. And it's like, all right.

At this point, like, yes, does not mean that probably Evan Bouchard or someone will have an open shot? but it's going to be from a position on the ice where at least you kind of have to pick your poison and live with it as opposed to giving Edmonton what they were doing in LA pretty much all series. So in that sense, it's kind of showed it not that the shot totals will reflect it, but it's kind of also shown why they've been so successful defensively this year. And I think why they're able to plug in their third string goalie and not to take anything away from them, but get the performance they have from him so far. Well, it can be a dangerous way to live if you're hunkering down after you, gain a lead in the regular season. I think if you kind of get into that score effects trap of just, okay, we have a lead.

Now we're playing really defensive. We're in a dump and chase. And that's the extent of our game. And we're going to hope for the best. I think generally not a great idea, but in these cases, in these small samples of you're just trying to win the next game and you're trying to fight tooth and nail for every puck, it makes sense, especially because now they have such a large sample size of talk it, it's, you know,

MO or DNA on this team that there's got to be a lot of confidence there where it's like, okay, at some point we're all just going to become goalies out there. We're just going to stand in front of shots and hope for the best in terms of the bounces off that. And hey, I honestly,

I can't argue with it given the results so far. And especially with a guy like McDavid, and a guy like Drysidal on the other end, where if you do try to go tit for tat, sometimes that can really blow up in your face if you're not careful. So interesting strategy. One I wouldn't recommend to every single team in the league, but I think that the Canucks have it figured out.

Certainly. All right, John, let's get out of here. And let's get this and out there so people can listen to it before these games start here tonight. On Monday, I'll let you plug some stuff on the way out. What do you have going on right now? Yeah, sure, just covering the playoffs. Then I'll start writing some stories about the draft and went on in free agency.

So your best bet for following my work is to, just follow me on Twitter and I tweet out my links for you read my links all the time. It's M-A-T-I-S-S-ed, J-O-H-N, my last name, first name, no underscore no space, no nothing. And yeah, download the score app and those are my two plugs. Awesome, buddy. We'll keep up the great

work. We'll have you on again soon. Pop into the Discord and join us, John's in there as well. If you're not already and you can get in questions for us in the future as well and just be part of the conversation every day while we're watching these games and smash the five-star button as well while you're out there helping us out wherever you listen. Greatly appreciated. Thank you to everyone for listening to us.

And that's all for today. We'll be back soon with plenty more here of the Hockey podcast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.