The Hockey PDOcast - CHL Top Prospects Game and this year's draft class

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Cam Robinson joins Dimitri in studio to talk about last night's CHL Top Prospects Game, and their impressions of some names from the top of this year's draft class. This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

dressing to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. I'm to the HockeyPediocast. My name's Dimitra Filipovich and joining me here in studio on a rainy Thursday morning in Vancouver. It's my pal, Cam Robinson, Cam. What's good on, man? Not too much in town for the Top Prospects game last night. And happy to sneak in and have a little job here.

Yeah, yeah. We're pre-recording this one, but it's good because we just watched the Top Prospects game late last night. And so doing it at the top of the morning here. keeps it fresh in the mind, you know, I had a chance to to sleep on a little bit on my, on my takeaways. It was my first, I'm sorry to be parachuting in here and coming with the takes after one viewing of all these guys. But this is my first real, real scouting event of the season, you know.

I'm too busy with the NHL stuff, but I'm going to start slowly dipping my toes in, and then, of course, I've been reading all of your work and all the fine work that we do at EDP Ringsside, of course, throughout, but it's going to, it's a good, good entry point for us. And I think there's a few nice little takeaways to get into because we saw some pretty notable names playing last night. It's always kind of cool to see them in that environment too because obviously it's one game and you don't clearly want to make any sort of sweeping statements. But when you see some of the top players either playing together or playing against each other, it kind of gives you a little sort of kind of like marker to like base on, oh, how are these guys like stacking up against each other?

Yeah, without a doubt. And, you know, we talk about it all the time. You know, the World Juniors, U-18s, you know, the top prospect game is that these little snapshots in time is like, don't blow them out of proportion. But at the same time, like these are high pressure situations. Like all the kids last night, like there was no points on the line, there was no medal on the line, but they knew who was in the seats, right? Like tons of GMs, tons of scouts, or was there watching, and they're watching

you play against some of the best players in the CHL at your age group. So you want to have a good showing. And some players certainly did. And it's great for us, too, to sit. there and to see them up close and personal and for myself as you know i primarily do video stuff is to get in the building and to see all these guys at once rather than you know bomb down to victoria are coming here and get a glimpse of one or two at a time and so it's uh fill the notebook well in the wab they like they do it's this this is trope it's this thing they do every

year where like right before like leading on the lead up to ressalmania after every big match they like afterwards they're like pointing at there's like a big resslmania sign hanging in the ceiling and they're like pointing at it and then the camera pans to it and it gets everyone thinking about the upcoming big event right i wanted to see one of these guys like score goal and then point up at all the scouts and be like that one was for you because we were just talking about those before we went on the air it is some of the teams had like individual suites for their entire staffs there and then there was just a kind of a row of scouts all just wearing the exact same outfit just standing ominously kind of like in dimly lit seats just like just

sitting and staring at all the all these teenagers playing it's it's a bit weird when you think about it that way but you're right i mean everyone knows kind of what's that's staycare and it's a chance for you to really either cement your status or kind of get people thinking, all right, whoa, I didn't think this guy had it in him in this type of environment. So it's cool because it provides you with a little bit of that. Yeah, for sure. And I don't know if you were watching that Timbits game in the intermission because that one kid, I think he did point up to the GAA.

He's like, yeah, after you scored that sweet goal, he's still leading up. I was like, yes, this is. Well, I was a little bit worried at the start of the game. It started ominously with the carpet. Yeah. There was a couple, couple players falling. I was like, oh, this is, well, the first guy fell, I was like, okay, that was a freak accident and then another guy like 10 seconds later did the same thing and I'm like

all right should we be docking his hockey IQ there because the fact that he fell for the same mistake it's a bit worse I know right and then the third guy yeah that guy that guy's a dnde for me exactly yeah yeah yeah um okay let's let's do our our takeaways our impressions kind of things we noticed at the game and go from there I'll let you start um what what stuck out to you you can take it you can go as granular as one you can go as big picture as you want you can go as obvious you want if you want to talk about just Connor Bredd, we can do that as well. I mean, that's going to that's going to sell all the listeners, I'm sure, just hearing us talk about Conner Bredard for the next 45 minutes.

Yeah, we'll definitely talk about Connor Breda. Yeah. And why don't we start since we're hyping it up? You know, I think it was a frustrating game for Baderd out there. You know, I think this was just the third game all season, you know, including league play and world championships or world juniors that he didn't get a point. And you could tell he wanted it, right? Like he was fiery out there, you know, went to that scrum after they scored the

empty netter and just starts cross-checking. guys and there's five on one. But no, you know, he was, he was showing that just, you know, his, his ability to maneuver in traffic, the edge work, you know, his hands. He was setting guys up. You could see he was frustrated and he was setting guys up. They weren't finishing it or getting it back to him. He was really beaver tail in that stick a lot wanting passes.

He was, you know, they gave Riley Hyatt the player of the game for Team Red. Riley Hyde had a pretty good game. I don't think he was the player of the game for Team Red and probably not even in the top three for my money. but, but Dard, without a point, was still the best player on their team, despite recording a point. And he was driving everything, you know, he was the most dangerous player. They were playing physical on him. He was playing physical back, which I really loved to see because, you know, for a kid who's, you know, sub five foot 10, everybody, all the defensive matchups against him, always like, got to play him physical, got to get in on him, got to make his life uncomfortable and he's going to wilt.

He doesn't wilt. No, he comes back. No, he seems to embrace it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good sign for him as a pro, too. Well, yes. At the end of the game, he definitely started getting frustrated.

and I like that. Like he's used to success and he's used to scoring. And I'm sure he wanted to put on a show as well for a local crowd and with all the scouts and attendance. And so I'm totally fine with that. That's cool. I like to see that from him. What I noticed was,

and this was my first time watching him live, we always talk about how like, oh, well, he's not as fast as Connor McDavid, right? And certainly you're never going to mistake the two. But it's weird.

Like when he doesn't have the puck and he's just kind of moving around there, he sort of blends in with everyone else. And then the set. second the puck hits his stick, he just starts to move in entirely different ways than anyone else on the ice. You know what I mean? It's like, it's weird. It almost like the puck comes to him and then it like activates his superhuman abilities. And then otherwise he just blends in with all the regular civilians. Yeah, just being smart out there, just hunting for that ice. And then bam, he's got it. And I couldn't count the amount of times where like if it was me on the ice

and I have the puck in the neutral zone and someone's clearly cutting him off. And it's like, you got to move that puck. You got to dump it in. You got to move it. No, he just like kicks an extra little acceleration and gets around him. cuts into the inside and opens up his hips and gets through him, you know, using those hands, you know, obviously just,

just tremendous ability with the puck. And then so, so smart without it, too. Yeah, and again, the fiery stuff. I love it.

I like it too, being down in a top prospects game, and an empty netter gets in, and he's mad enough to go in and, you know, take some abuse and give it back to you. Well, and there was a few times even throughout the game

where he, like, he initiated the contact and he even knocked a guy off his skates. And listen, I'm all, you know me. All I care about is skill. And if you can,

outscore your opposition. But I'm not beyond getting a little fired up when you see a guy like Connor Bernard throwing the body around. Similar to what we saw from McDavid in last year's postseason, right, where he kind of like found that mean streak

and just started going after King's players and finishing his checks. And like you don't want that to be the entire selling point, but if it's part of the package, it's like, yeah, I'm glad this guy's standing up for himself and asserting himself and engaging in this way. That's promising moving forward. Absolutely.

And he got steamrolled too in the neutral zone. Yes. And but popped right back up. Yeah. No worries, right? Like, he kept on moving. Yeah, he had a, he had, I had a few notes here on, like, little stuff he did, because he didn't have a point, he didn't have a point, as you mentioned.

Still delivered about, like, seven or eight sort of sequences where only really he could have done that. Like, there was one where he was kind of receiving a bit of a lazy pass. It seemed like there was aimless, and it wasn't really going to come to him. There was someone in his way, and he just last second lifted their stick kind of dad suit, Datsuk style to receive the pass cleanly. He had a few plays where. he was entering the zone and he had that kind of give and go with Benson, I believe, where he entered the zone on a through the legs, drop pass, and then charged to the net, got it

back for a tap for a tap in and it wound up being saved. But you saw the creativity, you saw the sort of sequencing his ability to work with teammates. And it was actually cool to see him playing with Benson as well and seeing those two guys riff. I mean, they were buzzing all game, especially in the second period, I believe, like they created five or six chances in a row. They were great. And it's a shame we didn't see. see we didn't see Crystal with him because it felt like they were missing that that third guy to kind of complete those sequences and it probably would have been a different story on the score sheet if we had seen that. And so that's a bit of a shame that he was a last minute scratch there or last day scratch. But otherwise those two guys, you know, delivered like full price of admission for me. Yeah, for sure. And, and, you know, Zach Benson, my notes for him here, Zach Benson, so good. Yeah. He just is so calm on the ice, like, clear, just like sees everything happening and a step ahead of everybody else. It utilizes all sorts of different passing techniques. Like I love the way you've sossed around, hitting trailers,

knowing that Bedard, everyone's watching him. And it's like, he has a pocket. I'm going to give it to Badard, but I'm still going to make it happen, right? And he's another guy who got popped several times. Yeah. Hopped right back up, just kept moving, just kept playing his game. Well, I, first off, sitting in the press box and chatting with people there, I caught myself numerous times referring to them as Tyler Benson.

and it made me sad because I realized that I'm getting old and Father Time truly does come for us all. And I was like, man, I remember when I used to make fun of media people for like mixing up these days and stuff and I'm like, oh, Tyler Benson looks good out there. And then I'm just like, oh, wait, no, different guy. Yeah, one thing I did notice a little bit and it's not an issue because you're right, like he's always around the puck.

He's so smart. I think he is going to need to add a bit of a bit more. quickness or pace to his game, I think, especially if you project towards the NHL for him to be an impact playmaker the way he's been in Major Junior, plenty of time to do so, and certainly not a limiting factor by any means. But I think I didn't notice that a little bit, because I'd like to see a bit more juice from him, especially on that first step on some of these sequences. Now, at this level, it doesn't ultimately matter. He's insanely productive, and, you know, he scored the goal. He had multiple chances to add to that as well. So not an issue right now, but certainly something once we start

talking, all right, it's kind of becoming like a consensus top five pick almost, right? Like Bob McKenzie put out of his list, he had him fifth, we had him fifth, I believe, on our midseason rankings on E.B. Rings out as well, it seems like he's kind of locking that stuff, himself up there. And once you start talking about that caliber of player, you have to start nitpicking the game a little bit, right? And so I'm doing it purely through that lens as opposed to being like, I don't know about this guy. Like, he's clearly very special. Well, I mean, that is what, you know, that's the knock. is that, you know, he's about average.

Because if he was, if he was a plus quickness guy, he'd be, like, up in the conversation with all the absolute top guys in this class, right? Yeah, he'd be battling for two. And, you know, it's, I think they, I think they measured him at this event, too, and he got dropped from 510 to 5.9 now. Oh, no, he shrunk? Yeah. Off our site, anyways.

Okay. And, you know, although I was having an argument with someone, he was standing next to Bada there, you know, for the anthems and everything. They were hanging out, and they literally looked. identical, right? And I think Boudard is at 5, 9 and 3 quarters or something. So anyways, he's sub 5 for 10. So when you're that size, you do need to have a little burn, right?

It's something that Baudard has and, you know, butard has everything. But I think you're right. And that's kind of where we end up hedging him a little bit because the production is so supreme. The intelligence is so supreme. He's such a great playmaker. He's such a great vision.

It's just that, you know, when he goes up and now he's playing against everybody who's good in the NHL, is he going to be able to make those things? happens is you're going to be able to get to those spots on the ice and delay enough to let other people get to those spots in the ice. So then again, you know, didn't really stop Henner Cedine or jumbo. Yes. Yeah. If he's processing the game at a quick level, it almost makes up for the body moving in a certain way. Yeah. And so I think there is a touch of risk if you take him at four, or five or something like that, that you might end up getting a number two center who can help you in all situations and maybe not that top flight guy or maybe he ends up on the wing, right? And he's a

playmaking winger. Well, he's got, what, 65 points in the number. 38 games. Yeah, clearly very productive. So you have them, because you did in a mock draft and you actually had them. I put him forth. Yeah, yeah. Are you feeling confident about that? Like, do you think between now and as this draft process continues and once we get

to like the final stages of the final mock drafts and everything, do you see him kind of sticking around that four or five range? I do, yeah, yeah, I do for sure. And I think that the uncertainty around Mishkoff, you know, the, you know, the the premium put on centers. And, you know, I do think he's going to be a center. Is that after Fantilian Carlson, I think that there's a very good chance that whoever's picking for, you know, maybe if it is a team like San Jose, maybe because they have such a long

weight that it's not like they're on the cusp, right, of their rebuild. And then so they could wait on Mishkoff and be okay with it. They have a couple Russians. Maybe they're okay with waiting on them. But I think whoever lands in that four spot, it's going to, whoever they pick there, it's going to really be determined on where they are in their rebuild situation. Because if a team has a little bit of time, then Mishkoff's the guy. Yeah.

But if you don't and you want a player that you can infuse into your prospect pipeline immediately, then you know, you're going to be looking at the Zach Benson or Will Smith or, you know, Andrew Kristol, there's going to be a whole bunch of guys that are going to land into that kind of category. Okay. Well, do you want to do it? I had Mitchkov later on my list, but I feel like this is since we're talking about him right now. Let's get into it. So it's interesting because I acknowledge all of the risk in place, certainly.

And I think there's also an element to if you're picking in the top five, you've clearly been losing. a lot this season and you're probably dealing with a fan base in a market that is desperately needing a W and something to like be excited about for as soon as the next the coming season, right? And so it's kind of tough to sell, all right, we're going to wait three full years until 2026. Get excited for that, right? And so that's tough from a marketing perspective, from selling tickets, from keeping fans invested and interested.

I will say from a team building perspective, acknowledging the risk of, We think it's going to be 2026, but who knows, we'll see it's still a projection. I love the idea of giving yourself a three-year runway to be as bad as you can for another year or so. Accumulate more top picks and cater everything in your franchise to being good for 2026, 27, and being able to just add a potential star player on an ELC right out of the gate, just plucking him in and dropping like that, which is the most. valuable thing you can have in today's NHL, right, having a star player that's making under a million dollars on your cap. And so I'm so fascinated by that. I think in the right hands with a smart

organization, it's actually a competitive advantage because it's this unique opportunity for you. Generally, we're talking about these impact young players as, all right, you're going to bring them in for the entirety of their ELC. They're probably going to be right up there as the best player on their team, but their team's going to suck. And so they're going to be exciting to be funny watching to see that projection live in front of your overall. own eyes every day playing 41 home games in front of your own fans. But where is it ultimately going to get you in terms of your team's probably still going to be bad throughout the entirety of that of that competitive advantage of their ELC? In this case, the idea of adding a 22-year-old

Mitch Kov still on an ELC is so fascinating to me. Fascinating and like you said, just like you said, just like so valuable. Yes. Because if he develops the way we expect he will, yeah, then you're plugging in a first line goal scorer onto a team that, you know, should be in a situation that could be growing. And maybe they have a lot of caps space anyway, so they can go out and already buy themselves those free agents and really supercharge it, that rebuild. I think that's a really great point.

There's risk attached to it. Yeah. Geopolitical stuff. Yes, of course. We don't know when he's going to come over officially or what the landscape's going to look, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that in three years he's coming over. You know, like Skah's already loaned to Masochi.

I don't know if you saw the goal he scored against St. Petersburg there when he played it. Well, I saw it. And you posted it out of your work. Yeah. I follow camera. And he's grabbing the Sochi logo and he's pumping it up. And I loved it, right?

Like he was giving it back to the team that owns his rights. Yeah. owns his rights for the next three years. He's like, you know, you sent me away. Well, I'm going to bury against you. So he's, he's got that fire too. You know, people ask, you know, like, how do you take a player like that? Or compare him to Kiro Kappasov.

You know, Minnesota Wild, they don't seem too sad about waiting. It's like, yeah, Kiro Kappasov was a fifth round pick. Yes. A lot easier to wait on a fifth round pick who all of a sudden explodes while over in Russia. Right. versus doing like, so, you know, when you look at it, who's going to be in that spot, who's going to be available to do it? Like Montreal seems like the team that really could because they're going to have two

picks in the first 12 or 13, right? Yep. So all of a sudden you take him at four or five, you got yourself another top 10, top 15 pick that you can be like, here's the shiny object. If your team is barren of prospects, yeah, you know, like, we're going to take this again, and you're not going to seem forever and maybe not even in three years. And, you know, the kid weighs 145 pounds. So it's like he's not a for sure thing either.

So there's loads of risk, but just the upside is incredible, too. Like you could have a Kutrov level goal score on your hands, right? So it's – well, have you – in your conversations, like, what are – because it's all, like, it's all speculative, but what are you hearing in terms of how teams are preparing for how far he could slide? Because I've heard – I got a scout where a team executive tell me that they would not be surprised if he fell under the 20s, and I just – I refused. Like, that would – that would just be – that's bad. If the NHL allows that, that is the teams should be ashamed. I've heard it from two teams that they wouldn't touch him in the top 20. Now, but at the same time, I heard another team say that he's number three.

Yeah. So. Yeah, those two teams are unsurious organizations. What I think they are is they're teams that aren't picking probably in the top 20. So, you know, maybe they are, but we'll see. But, you know what I mean? It's a lot easier to say that when you're in a position where you're not going to have a chance. maybe maybe just float and smoke and hoping that I'm going to talk about it on the PDO cast and

it's a little he's going to be around we don't want to take him too early cams hearing stuff that's true you know well it's I mean it seems like the Washington capitals are heading towards potentially having a lottery pick this season well that would be a lot of fun right and they they would probably have to trade up I would assume just I can't see him like this class has been heralded for a really long time as being you know legendary oh three you know 2015 levels it's not yeah it's not it's not not that deep of a class. I think the top 15 is strong. Yeah, in terms of like good projectable players, but not in terms of like, this guy's going to change the course of your franchise. Yeah. You're not, you're not pulling Sebastian Ajo out of the 20s or 30s or whatever,

you know, Carolina got him there. I mean, maybe you are. It happens every year where someone, someone is excellent later. But yeah, so I think that is his skill level, his potential, his ceiling. I would be surprised myself if he slipped out of the top 10. I'd be surprised if he slipped out of the top seven, really. I could see him, you know, not going four in four, five, six, depending on who's sitting there. But, you know, at that seven, eight range, like, are you really going to take a kid, like Oliver Moore or Delibor Dvorsky,

who's like, yeah, he looks like he's going to be a great middle six center over a guy who could be an all-star who could score 40 or 50 for you, right? Yeah. How do you justify that? Yeah. Well, you know, reading your mock job, I was thinking, or I guess you mentioned it a few minutes ago on the show here, the sharks are a team that I keep looking at because, I think if they win the lottery, obviously their decisions made for them,

and if they get the second or even the third pick and Carlson or Fantilli are there, I think the confidence in projection in terms of the timeline probably steers you towards that. But let's say the sharks get like the fourth pick. I don't know how you can justify not going the Mitch Clove route if you're them because no matter what you do, you're not going to be good over the next three years. Like they have so much sort of sunk capital in terms of their cap sheet for the next handful of years that no matter what they do, it's not going to matter. And so in this case, it actually gives you three years to get off of money, potentially trade Carlson at some point here and actually get some positive value. If you can retain a bunch of salary, especially as you get closer to that contract running out.

And then really, like, there's only going to be a few bad contracts at that point. The cap will go up itself. So all of a sudden, you're going to have this added flexibility. you're going to have been bad and add a couple more top five picks, hopefully, in the meantime. I think that's such a no-brainer for them that that's one team in particular where I think the risk is almost non-existent because it doesn't really matter. I don't know what adding Zach Benson to this group necessarily really even does for you. No, for sure. And that's probably the biggest glaring hole in my first mock draft is that when I did it.

And, you know, these mock drafts are supposed to be fun. They're supposed to be a little spicy. Of course. And, you know, that's not how I would do things. But yes, and I kind of rationalize that later afterwards. I was just like, you know, this team, yeah, bloated cap sheet, like, they're in a position to wait because they're going to suck for a couple years regardless. So why bother having a player, you know, if they do take Benson, he's going to go back to

the WHL for a season. He's not going to be a plug-and-play guy, I don't think. And so then he's going to come out a year later and he's what? He's going to play in your bottom six. He's not going to impact anything. And by the time he gets out of his ELC, maybe he's gotten to the point where he's like, okay, now I need a bridge deal. Then I need big money in a minute, right?

the time they're good, now you're paying Zach Benson, you know, whatever, six to seven million bucks. And that's not as beneficial for you long term. So I think you're right. I think San Jose landing in that four spot or Montreal landing in that four spot will be like, okay, we should be on Mishkoff watch. If either those teams are ahead or end up being way back, you know, the two of them, then then things could get fun, I think, because like I don't see a team like Vancouver

taking MEP Mischoff in the top five. Yeah, they need a, they need an easy W. Yeah. Yeah. They need a few easy-olds. Yes, yeah, yeah. You know, and so, and I think that there's some other teams around that, too. Like, I don't know.

I don't think I see Arizona taking Matt B. Mishkov. They need to sell tickets right now, too, right? I mean, I only so many tickets to sell right now, but I don't know. I don't know if I see Columbus taking Matt B. Mishkoff. I don't know. This is smart, though. They got some smart guys behind them. If you're Arizona, though, it's like, wait, we don't have to pay this guy for three more years,

and then he'll still be on him. ELC? I mean, that's, that sounds like pretty good business if I'm Arizona. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anaheim is a bit unique to me as well because as bad as they've been this year, they have so much incoming talent and already NHL talent in place from their young contributors. They're coming. That it makes sense to like add someone who can, it doesn't really matter about helping you right now because it's not like they're going to jump to a contender all. But in terms of a guy who can come along with them at a more rapid pace, like I think that makes sense even if you're potentially giving away a bit of upside. But also if you're Anaheim and you're getting Mitch Cobb and you're like, all right,

in three years, he's going to join McTavish and Zegris and Terry, if he's still there and Drysdale and Zellweger. Like, I'm fine with that too. You almost can't go wrong. It's found money at that point. But yeah, it'll be, it'll be fascinating. I think how the lottery shakes out will ultimately like determine because a lot of these teams have much different timelines or or willingness to kind of pinch their nose and wait as opposed to what you said with the team of Canucks that that probably needs to turn things around in terms of, like, carmically and with their fans. And so they might be more incentivized to just add someone that probably won't,

like, if you're picking someone at five in this class, they're probably not going to be playing for your team at the start of next season, right? But at least, at least, like, you know, you can trot them out there in camp or something and, you know, do all the media stuff and then follow them, especially in the, they're at the WHL. And you're like, all right, follow this guy kind of close to home all year. and then we'll start hearing the buzz for next season, right? So it's a bit of a different sort of agenda, I think.

Yeah, I think you're right. And at the same time, they loathed taking guys out of the Western League, too. So you never know. But we'll see what the prerogative is. I know that that last regime, they shied away from Russians, despite taking Podgoulson in the top 10, is that they were, for a long time, really not interested in taking Russians, especially Russian defensemen, too.

But, yeah, he's going to be a lot of fun. He is the name to watch on Draft Day, too. Wouldn't it be fun if he ended up going, like, two? You know, if some team just surprised us and said, screw it, you know, we're going to take the second most dynamic player in the crop, and that's, that'd be a mission. Well, I mean, if you subscribe to best player available, then I'm for it. Yeah, upside, upside, upside.

You've got to get Carolina picking too, I guess. Yes. All right. Cam, let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we're going to keep chatting about the top prospects game and this year's class and all that fun stuff. You're listening to the Hockey, Ocast, streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network. Yo cast Cam Robinson

Cam let's keep uh we got sidetracked a little bit there this was going to be our top prospect show and then we did like 10 minutes on someone who did not even play in the game but here's my big takeaway I started out like what's your takeaway we did one of them so far here's my big one so I'm watching the game I have no idea what they expect I'm really coming in with a fresh set of eyes I know 98 on the red team is pretty good but otherwise I'm like

all right I'll see what happens here so I watched two shifts number 24 on team white I think literally in his first two shifts gets the puck in the defensive zone beats a forechecker maneuvers through traffic in the neutral zone gets into the offensive zone starts a cycle

positive shift I'm sitting beside our pal Thomas Drens and I go over to him and I go number 24 in white someone to watch for it I think that guys get so we started looking it up we're like okay uh Tanner Melendick here Tom messages

a scout he's in contact with that'll go unnamed. So what can you tell me about 24 here? The scout responds. I'd prefer if we didn't talk about this guy. So we're like, all right, I think we're onto something here. So I're watching the rest of the game. I was blown away by his performance. Basically, I saw everything that I would want from a modern day defenseman in the game.

Those rushes up the ice. On the first goal for the team, he keeps the puck in at the blue line with a nifty little play. extends the possession. They wind up scoring a power play goal, I believe. Gets matched up in space with Connor Bredd later on in the game. All of a sudden, steers him to the outside, neutralizes the chance.

All of a sudden, I'm like, I was holding my breath because I'd been talking up for the first like, a period of a half, and then this happened. And I was like, okay, if he gets absolutely embarrassed here, I'm going to wind up with egg on my face, handles himself perfectly, throws a big hit, does everything. Come away from the game.

I'm like, I think that was my, I think that was my individual favorite performance aside from, I guess, Bernard and Benson, of course, entirely different caliber prospect. But watching a game like that, just parachuting in with a single game sample, I think this is the guy I'm going to plant my flag on as my favorite guy in this year's class. I love it. I love it. I love getting in there and seeing it because he stood out for sure. It was pretty cool.

Someone who came up to me and just introduced themselves in Sugarhand. Like, hey, who's standing out to you today, Cam? And, you know, that was the second name I brought up. and we can talk about the first name here in a little bit too. But no, you're absolutely right. I got some notes on him too. He was flying out there. And like I loved the lateral ability in the offensive zone.

I loved his backwards mobility, his foot mirroring. And like you said, that rush against Connor Bredard was great. Like he pinched him out and he cut off his space. And then he had some support on the weak side. And they came and they just neutralized him completely physical. Like he obviously had hop. Like that first shift, he laid the big hit. Yep.

He was in the game. You know, he plays for the blades. We ranked him, I think, 50. So we had him 51. With you one. Okay. Bob McKenzie has him 60 second on his list. Yeah.

He's going to move up. Yeah. I messaged J.D. J.D. Burke. And I was like, I'm parachuting in here. But I think this is someone that we should plant our flag on and have them higher than consensus intentionally. Because it might not work out. He's a 511 defenseman who has not been producing that much at his club level.

We can talk about that as well here in a second. But just those skills that I mentioned that we saw on display, even in one game, like, those are the types of traits that you want to invest in, right, moving forward. Like, those are the types of players that succeed. But ultimately, like, just because he's 5-11, I feel like he doesn't capture a lot of eyes initially. And then when you watch him play, you're like, all right, it doesn't matter how big he is because, as you mentioned, like, he's fine around like a missile, is throwing his body.

He's playing like he's 6-3. So it doesn't ultimately matter that he's only 5-11. So a total non-issue for me and just seeing some of those traits in the way he can handle the rush, that's what you want to invest in in terms of, like, a projectable NHL defenseman. I don't care that he's 5'1. Yeah. I rarely care that a defenseman's 5 foot 11 as long as they can skate well and they can

defend the rush. Yeah. And he can do those things. And so, no, I like him. You know, he was in my top 40 when I was when I was given. I wasn't at the last. Well, you're a smart guy. Yeah, yeah.

I wasn't at the last scouting meeting. But, you know, I was trumpeting some players. He wasn't one that I was banging the table on beforehand. But I think it was fine that we landed him at 51 on this on this midseason ranking. Because, you know, he's not a clear A rated prospect. He's kind of in that B plus range, which is, which is where he should be, kind of in that early second round, mid-second. But we'll see this game.

He definitely stood out. He was one of the decisively better players on the ice and one of the best players for Team White. Well, I'm kind of curious for your take on this because one of the flaws is he has 24 points and 41 games for the Saskatoon Blades. And I asked our pal Mitch Brown about this and he said a concern of his when he watches tape of him playing for his club team is he's kind of like over-reliant on making very simple plays. He hasn't been displaying a lot of offensive creativity for a guy who like when you watch

him dash up the ice, you're like, this guy can play. Like he's got skill. He's not like Mr. Stonehands over here where the podcast. He has no idea what to do. Like he clearly has a feel for it. But for whatever reason when he gets in the offensive zone, he really dumps his game down. And then Mitch also noted that when he watches him at like the U-18s, when he's playing with better players, all of a sudden his game opens up. Some of those concerns completely get alleviated. He starts playing much more free flowing and much more creative brand of hockey. And I saw, you know, he didn't do anything outstanding in the offensive zone last night, but I didn't watch that game and think, wow, this guy really is just going to be a total

zero in the offensive zone. And so I'm kind of curious how you balance those two things, right? Because the way a player plays is very dependent on environment, but also when you watch a club level performance versus these tournaments or when they're playing with other top players and then how their game changes. how do we sort of balance those two things when there's a clear disparity between the two? We like it when players step up their game when they are surrounded by higher skilled players. We like that as a projection because...

Because at least they can match it or keep up with them, right? Not only that is that they're moving into leagues with better players. Like the Western League is great, but there are a bunch of guys that are never going to play pro hockey or at any decisive level. And then, you know, the blades aren't a high octane offensive team either. And so deferring to those simple plays, that's kind of his role. He's not there to be a freewheeler. He's there to get the pucks up and out smoothly and transition. He's there to keep pucks in at the zone and keep possession.

You know, they keep the cycle going, maybe hit a cross-team pass every now and again. But you're right. He didn't do anything that jumped off the page completely. But, you know, he was given a little faint and then using that lateral agility backwards crossovers and getting across the line to open up a seam to get a shot through or get a pass-through. I love it when a player's. steps up their game when they're playing with better players. We saw what Brad Marchant did when he all of a sudden got to play with

Sidney Crosby for a minute there in the Olympics. And he's just like, I learned how to be amazing. Yeah. You know, some of these times that's what happens to players when they play with better players. They're like, oh, I can do these things on a regular basis. So yeah, I think that that was a really nice showing for him and another kind of feather in his cap that's like, yeah, when you put me with guys and put me in a position where you're like, go ahead, create some offense.

I can do that too. I don't think he's going to be Quinn Hughes. He's not going to be a guy's going to put up 60 points. but he's going to be one of these guys, a sub-six-foot player that I think can be an NHLer. Maybe he can be a top-four guy. Oh, Jared Spurgeon-ish. In terms of the rush defense undersized

without necessarily like super high-end offensive skills. Now, Jared Spurgeon is such an anomaly for so many reasons that we don't want to. It's kind of a lazy comp. But in terms of the skill set, because Mitch also noted, like he's been tracking defensemen at the CHL and NTP level since 2017. And I think Tanner's the best. defenseman he's tracked in that time. Wow.

Like last year he broke up. Like he turned over 50% of the time someone tried to carry the puck in against him, which is just like comical now. Yeah. You know, that's that that that's obviously very extreme. But the ability to, I like the ability to like there's a difference between being a plus skater or like being able to cover ground and actually showing signs, especially at this stage of their career to leverage it in a functional defensive way.

Right. And so like you see guys who are. very smooth skaters as defensemen and they have no idea what they're doing right they're kind of just like they're just zipping around there they're moving around aimlessly it's like all right you're not really putting this ability to move to use and i think nchl teams see that as a as a potential project of like we bring him in here we sort of show him better habits and how to actually utilize that maybe we can turn around i think most times they don't because if you don't know how to use that speed already it's alarming for me in terms of IQ and habits the fact that he's already

using that to, as you mentioned, buy himself a bit of time by pushing Connor Bredard to the outside waiting for reinforcements. Like, little stuff like that is very translatable skills to me. Absolutely. And it just, it doesn't get the press. Yeah. And that's kind of thing. Yeah. No one's like, oh, do you see him slow Conner Bernardadar for two seconds? It's like, that's not going to make a highlight reel for most he's. No, it's not. And playing with his club team in Saskatoon, it's, it's, when he's breaking up all these rush attempts, it's, it's, that doesn't get the news. But for the people that are watching or watching the right things, those are boxes ticked.

know, like those are NHL habits and those are what we want to see from junior defensemen because, you know, it takes a while to master that position, right? It's a difficult position to level up. Yeah. And once that competition, so if you've already got such a supreme command over your rush defense at this level, you're going to have an easier time when you move up to the HL. You have an easier time when you move up to the NHL and you're going to get the coach's trust and all of a sudden, Minster are going to come and maybe some more confidence and creativity.

And that's when you take off. And that's when a second rider becomes a real asset for you long term. Yeah. I always struggle with how to evaluate, um, defensemen especially at the major junior level because when you watch some of these games there's there's so little sort of structure or or projectability to what it's going to look like like even when they make it to the hl let alone the nchl in terms of like how the game is played and sort of what everyone's doing out there so these large sequences where everything is so loose and there's just

so much open space and everyone's kind of just skating around in circles and it's like all right like none of this looks like what it's going to look like at the next level so it's tough to know what to do with that, right? And so, like, a guy can be incredibly skilled or put up a lot of points, but it might be ultimately meaningless because it truly is comparing apples and oranges to what they're doing now versus what you're going to need from them in five years. And so the fact that someone's playing kind of like an NHL version of the game already at age 17 or 18 is highly encouraging to me.

And so I don't know, like, when you're watching a major junior defenseman, what are you, like, are you kind of like looking for like the, like, the physical traits, the movement. Obviously, you want to see at least a baseline level of production. Otherwise, you're kind of going to be concerned. But what are you kind of looking for, especially when you turn on the tape for some of these guys? Yeah.

So I think you nailed it on the head there, is that there's junior play and then there's pro level play, right? Same if there's junior production or a junior goal and then there's pro goals. And some of these guys can look amazing in junior. Yeah. And you're like, oh, my goodness, look at all the points they're getting. Look at the goals they're setting up. It's like, they're not doing any of that at the next level.

They're not doing that at the AHL level. They're probably not doing that in the SHL. Like that's just not going to happen for them. They're going to have to change their game completely. And then you look at some guy that's like, oh, he's clicking at half a point per game. It's like, yeah, but this guy's going to be a pro. Right. And so when I'm watching junior defensemen, I'm looking for, first and foremost, is how do you read the play?

Can you read the play coming at you? Because, like, if you can't read it at this level, like, you have a mountain to climb at the next level. So can you see where it's going to develop? Can you mirror the rush attempts? Can you veer guys off when to use your stick at the line, when to be physical in the corner? outlets. Can you make a pass? Some of these guys, and unfortunately, a couple guys at this game last night were just nowhere to be seen. They were just missing passes.

Yeah, there's a few grenades, yeah. Right? Like coming out, hesitate, hesitate, uh, and then just ice the puck instead of hitting the target. And it's like, oh, God, that's, that's not going to go well for you. And so, so I love a smart player. He doesn't have to be laying the boom. He doesn't have to be six foot six. If you can play smart defense positionally, you don't have to be a monster physically. You know, Nick Lidstrom wasn't a small man, but, you know, he barely had to touch anyone ever, right? Like, you just, he just didn't have to because he had such great control of the ice and time and

space. And so those are some of the big things that I'm watching from these defensemen. And, you know, something like, Olin Zellweger, I was so high on him in his draft year. And so I was like, he just controls the ice around him so well. And he's not the best rush defender, even at this level at this point, but just everything he does to move the puck in the right way with that great skating. It's like, this guy's going to be a pro and he's going to be a good pro. and it's like, don't let them fall into the second round.

Yeah. Stop when these guys fall into the second round. Well, no, I mean, yeah, no one's regretting that at this point, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's all I had on, on Tanner and Melendick here, who, uh, this is, this is some of the best press that he probably could have asked for for his draft stock. He's got to give us a showdown. It's good, yeah.

I mean, we should, I think we should be his agents. I think he's good. All right. What was, you mentioned someone that you wanted to talk about as well in your notes here. Yeah. I think, you know, I mentioned Boudard was obviously the most threatening. I thought Benson was right there with him. But Grayson Sotchen was tremendous.

Like I thought he was so good the entire night. Every time he touched the puck, he was doing something with it. Like his hands, I love his hands up close and personal like that. Like he was making things happen. Little saucer passes going in one-on-one situations, one-on-two situations, and still like making that first move, cotton, darting, dish in the puck, hitting the trailer. You know, I don't think he got onto the score sheet, but like he,

had tons of, you know, shot passes or setting up shots for other players, setting up shots for himself, getting in on the boards. Like he's not a physical player. He was getting in there and grinding on the cycle as well. I thought they should have moved him up onto that first line, especially when they were down late and they were yanking goalies. And he wasn't getting on the ace. I'm like, this guy's one of your best offensive players.

And you got him buried on the third line. And now he's not coming out when the goalies out. Like give this guy. He's played an excellent game. For me, he was the standout player, a guy that I was kind of up and down on with his where do you have on? for now. Yeah, I'd have to pull it up here to see. But he's, he's outside my top 40. Oh, wow. Yeah, I had him outside the top 40. We have him on EP. We have him at 58 on our last list.

I, you know, we have one guy who, who Daniel G who's been kind of banging the table for him a little bit. And we all admit he's fun. Like he's a lot of fun. But he's undersized. You know, he's light, slight. And, and he's putting, you know, good numbers on a good team. But it's like, yeah, is he going to be, you know, is he going to be the second line? kind of contributor passenger type of player or is he going to be a driver of play and if he can bring the same thing he brought last night you know consistently throughout the back half of the season and build that into being a pro then he's going to be a play driver because I loved his game I really really enjoyed so what's the process like from from a rankings and uh and uh and uh sort of a list

perspective over the course of a draft season where you had a player a bit lower and then you watch a performance like this and it could be not necessarily like an in-person one in a big setting like this, it could be like, all right, on a Wednesday night, I'm going to pop on some tape here and do a bit of work. And then someone sticks out to you. And it might not even been someone you were tuning in to watch. It might be a teammate or someone. Is that like kind of you'd like make a mental note and you're like, all right, I'm going to like revisit this and try to see more to see if I can find kind of more evidence to back up what I see and make sure it wasn't a one off? Or like, how are you approaching that when someone's performance when you're watching them sort of runs counter to what you expected heading in?

I really love when that happens. Yeah, it's good. It makes you think at least. It does. And I go and then I just immediately watch a whole bunch more of their tape. I'll just go in ISO on them and watch two or three of their games, isolated shifts on their games and decide, you know, did what I just see? Is that, have I been missing this?

Am I just getting bad outings beforehand? And this is actually the player or is this just a one-off game? And so it'll, it happens on the other side too. You know, I was really high on this kid, Jaden Perron playing in the USHL. And then I had a bad,

I had a real bad viewing of them. And I was like, oh, no, here we go. He's not a burner and this is a bad outing. Am I only getting good outings before? Right. Now I got to watch three or four of his games and stay up way too late and see what's going on. And so then you just ride the roller coaster.

Yeah. And usually over the course of the season, it all kind of comes out in the wash, right? Is that there's going to be ebbs and flows in their season. It's natural, right? We're going to have bad shows. You're going to come in here and a little bleary eye. Just me. I speak for yourself.

I'm going to have bad shows. Probably right now. Yeah. But yeah. So by the end of the year, when you've accumulated. 15, 20, 30 views on a certain player, you're going to have an idea. It's like, okay, I understand what this guy is. And I might up and down throughout the season, our buddy David St. Louis there on the

scouting team is notorious for being on the chat and seeing a good shift on a player and being like, he should go three. And then, you know, five minutes later, he's like, never mind, never mind. He's a D&D. Disregard. Disregard my previous messages. Yeah. We get to live that with him, which I always enjoy too.

Nice. Yeah. But by the end of the year, we all have a. pretty secure base and you know sometimes we don't agree on them and that's when the real discussions come into play and it's fun because i love to be challenged on a player too for someone's like no that's not what i see and i'm like okay i guess i got to go back and watch it tell me what what game you saw this so i can go and see it myself too well i learned that the hard way when uh as a a little bit callback reference here i watched i think hunter shank eric's two best games

in his draft here and i was like i just i can't see this guy feeling and i'll obviously extend your new circumstance and and the injuries certainly didn't help but yeah It was kind of a wake-up call in terms of increasing the sample size of Ewing's because it could be very hit or miss, especially at this level where I feel like for a lot of players, like, you're going to get enough from Connor Bredard pretty much every game, every time he steps on the ice to like at least see the potential. But some of these players, though, like, it can be much more fleeting, right? And if you just, you catch them in a bad week or something, all of a sudden,

it could totally be like not representative of what they actually are as a prospect. No, for sure. And I think some GMs need to learn that. that as well, right? Because the old adage, though, the GM makes the first round pick and the scouts make all the others. And oftentimes these GMs will just, you know, parachute in for the world juniors, parachute in for the top prospects game.

And they'll see a guy two or three times and it happens to be their best two or three games. And they're like, this guy's great. Sometimes you've got to watch 15 more to make sure that this guy is actually great. Yeah, there was a lot of, a lot of, a NHL team representation at the game, right? We mentioned all the scouts and stuff. I noticed boxes for the Canucks at a box. the Leafs had a suite right beside the press box. The stars did.

I think I heard someone say they saw Rich Peverely there, but I didn't see, I don't think Jim, no, it was there. But I also saw Yarmow and our pal Josh Flynn there standing with the Scouts as well in Scouts Row. Nice. And Vegas had a box as well. I think those are the only teams that I noticed, but I'm sure most teams had like scouts kind of sprinkled in with the civilians.

Oh, for sure, yeah. I know I saw guys from the wild. guys from the devil. Yeah. Yeah. The hurricanes. There was probably 75 or 80 percent of the teams were represented there. And then I'm sure there was a ton of guys that I just don't know or recognize them.

You know, they had their trench coats. Incognito. Exactly, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But no, that's like we said, the eyes are on this game. And it's funny because traditionally, it's like it's a one-off in January.

Yes. Right? Like it's these kids are, they've never, most of them have played together. They're flying in. They're doing all the press. They're doing, you know, the on-ice skills and stuff like that. and then all of a sudden they're thrown on the ice and it's like, okay,

go and be your best. So at the end of the day, it's not the be all and all. What I like to do with these things is that if someone really shows out, I take notice and maybe I move them up in my mind that I like, this guy's got these. But if someone doesn't have a great game, I'm not,

I'm not kicking them down my list. I'm like, okay, that's not a great game, but let's, let's keep going through the season and series. Well, and the cool thing about this year's game was,

it was like, I mean, it's a, it's a particularly strong WHL year, right? But I think there was eight, local BC kids playing as well and and you know crystal wasn't playing but but it's still like it's kind of cool seeing seeing that sort of West Coast

representation and that added to the allure of the event I think as well being here in Langley yeah definitely the West is best this year right like I've been saying it all year it goes one two three for dub scoring are all draft eligible kids and you know there's another three or four in the top 20 it's it's crazy you know Braden Yeager we haven't even talked about him yeah you know he's a he's a really terrific talent he had a good game But he wasn't the best player out there. He had that breakaway where he got a bit of the post on that one too. But he was flying out there.

He's playing strong defensively. Another Western kid that is probably going to be going in the top 10. We don't have them in that range. And that was the first couple of texts I got from Exaxon scouts. Just being like, surprised about Yeager. Surprise you guys got Yeager solo. And Colby Barlow, too. We were getting some pushback on Kobe.

The beard on that guy, man. We need to check the birth certificate. We need to check it. He looked like he had shaved this morning. had already fully grown back his beard. And I say that as a proud owner of a beard as well. Yeah, some good beards in the studio right now. Yeah, we need to check.

There's no way he's 17 or 18. Like, it's some funkies going on. He's a grown man. He's a grown man. And he is a grown man, too. Like, he is not a small man. He's not a skinny dude with a beard. Yeah.

Yeah. So, which is funny because, not so funny for him probably, but that brings in a question is like, where's the next, where's the next level coming from? Because he's physically, you know, the dude's been shaving since he was 12. Like, he's developed. So he's physically dominant at this level, but is he going to be at the next?

I thought he had a great first period. And then he kind of went quiet for the rest of the game. Callum Ritchie and other kid, I was really hoping to see do something, you know, former first or second overall pick in the OHL priority draft. And I mocked him going to the Sends at 10 or something like that just as kind of like a twist of a knife on their Tyler Boucher pick a couple years ago. But he was invisible. I mean, he got a late goal there just kind of on a nothing play.

but I really didn't like his game too. Well, Lind had a very Tyler Boucherish game. Yeah. Getting very involved. Yes, yes. I loved that tilt, right? Like, he was not backing down from a guy bigger than him. They were throwing bombs.

Well, well, he, I mean, he initiated, like, at least, like, a couple sort of, like, close altercations throughout, like, the first period, second period, maybe. And then we were a bit late coming back for the third. I think we were, like, in the media room and we were walking back. And then we heard, like, we're, like, stepping in and right around the corner, you can hear there's, like, fight going on. They're like doing the boxing sound. And I'm like, I lean over to Kevin Woodley as or walk and I'm like, I bet it's Lind. And then we just walk in. It's like, yeah, of course.

And then after the, or right at the final buzzer or whatever, when they score the empty netter, you just throwing bombs on someone like one on five. Yeah, he was, he was very involved. Yes, he was. And that is his game, right? Like, he is, he is feisty. And, and that's, that's good because, you know, he's not the biggest guy who's going to have to play that style. He's an energy guy. Yeah. Energy line player one day. And that's a good role to have. If you can pull it off. Yeah. All right,

Cam, well, this is a blast. Fun game, fun hanging out with you here and kind of reflecting on it. I'll let you promote some stuff,

let the people know where they can check you out and sort of what the plans are for the rest of, from now until, I guess, June. Like, what's,

what's the schedule going to be looking like in terms of timeline? Yeah, the sprint to Nashville, right? Yeah, it'll be fun. Hopefully we'll be having. Oh,

absolutely. We'll be doing, we'll be doing PDCats from Nashville for sure. Yeah. Yeah, obviously hockey on, or Hockey Robinson on Twitter. all the work at E.B. Ringside.

Now the fun really starts. And so obviously I do a ton of fantasy hockey stuff with the club of a couple articles every week. But now I'm really honing in. I'm going to start doing the film rooms a lot more. Got an Andrew Kristol one coming out next month. So that'll be those deep dives. Those will start to come fast and furious here.

Get everybody ready for the draft. We'll do some compare comps. You know, Carlson Fantilli. It will be on the mixtape there too. Smith versus Moore. We've got a lot of fun stuff coming. And you'd be ringside, guys, you've got to get on. This is the time to hop on.

If you've been kind of dragging your feet, wondering whether you should do it, like, this is a good time to start building up the foundation. You don't want to be getting into it in June and be trying to cram and it's just not the way to prepare for the drought. You've got to start doing the homework now. And the resources we have on there already are just phenomenal. Oh, absolutely.

And then, you know, not even to mention all the stats stuff you get and all the NHL coverage, right? The terrific NHL stuff that you just want to be a part of. All right, Cam. Well, we're certainly to have you back on. I'm excited. I ran into our buddy, Chris Peters in the press box as well, and he was telling me he was complaining about how busy he is

and his daily schedule and all that. And I'm like, that sounds great and all. But come June, we're sitting down. We're doing a three-parter. Me, you, Cam. I think the fourth annual mock draft now. So people are excited about it. I'm excited about it.

I'm excited about it. I'm looking forward to it. Cam, this is a blast. Be well. Thank you to everyone for listening to the HockeyPEDO cast, streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.