The Hockey PDOcast - Connor Bedard’s Year 3 Improvement, the Current State of the Trade Market, and Teams Approaching Big Decisions

Episode Date: November 24, 2025

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Emily Kaplan to discuss Connor Bedard's improvement in Year 3, the current state of the trade market and potential points on the calendar that could lead to action, teams to keep an eye out for as they approach big upcoming decisions, and young players that are playing their way into the conversation for the Olympics. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P-D-O-Cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey-Pedio-Cast. My name's Dimitra Filipovich, and joining me is my good buddy, Emily Cappell, and Emily, what's going on? Not much, Dmitri. I love this. I don't know. Is this like a quarterly tradition, biannual tradition, whatever it is. Anytime we get a talk shop, I love chatting with you.

Well, listen, you're very busy. I'd love for it to be a more frequent tradition, but we're certainly long overdue for our first catch-up of the season. I got a long list of topics. I want to get through here with you. And I want to start with Connor Bardard

and the progress he's made this year. He's fourth in the league in points with 31 and 22 games. Only McKinnon celebrating and McDavid at Moore. 27 of those 31 have been primary, just four secondary assists. that's tied for the league lead with McKinnon and Celebrini. And entering year three, I think a big topic of conversation has been the offseason work

he put into his trading to get stronger, faster, more functional in terms of competing against the best players in the league, kind of rounding out his game as he continues to develop. I think a lot of this certainly would have just happened organically for a 20-year-old. It makes sense that he would get stronger and faster as he gets used to the league and enters his physical prime, but it was a big year for him. because it felt like Macklin Celebrity certainly took a lot of the shine away from him last year with the debut he had into the league. We talked a lot about the divergent vibes for the Blackhawks and Sharks organizations in terms of the sharks, despite finishing bottom in the standings.

Everyone feeling so good about what they were building with him and Will Smith and how they were riffing and the future for that team. And then everyone was like, oh, we were expecting the Blackhawks to take a bit of a step forward. Bedard certainly to produce more than he did as a rookie. and that didn't really pan out. So it was a big year for this guy entering the final year of his ELC and both him and the Blackhawks have obviously been off to a great start

and I just wanted to talk to you a little bit about that work he put in in the offseason and then the dividends it's paying on the ice to start the season. For sure. Well, I think when we look back on this, this might turn out to be one of the all-time bet-on-yourself moments in the NHL because he was due for an extension this summer

and we were all expecting it to get done. And I talked to the GM Kyle Davidson and he said that there was no formal number or offer ever put on the table this summer. But we would have all expected it to be around eight years times 10 million and been like, okay, that's fair. The way that Connor has played to literally look and produce like a top five player in this league, we are now looking at a contract that's like 12 and a half, 13, 14. You could justify 15 million and everyone and be like, yeah, of course the Blackhawks had to do that. so we'll see whenever that time comes they're going to revisit my gut says if he doesn't make the Olympic team around that Olympic break is a good time for them all to huddle um but it's going to be a big

number and you cannot say it is not deserved like he's been so secretive over whatever these summer workouts entailed in Vancouver I know you know the van area maybe you can get some boots on the ground to find out exactly what he was doing um you know I've tried to ask him specifically about it one thing that I know people close to him told me was that a big thing for him also was weaponizing rest. Like we heard those stories of him in his first two years, the league just being such a rink rat. Like literally, they would hide his stick from him sometimes. Like, Connor, go home, get off the ice. And I think now in year three, he's really taking that to heart and he's learned when he needs to expound his energy and when it will show up. No doubt, whatever he did

over the summer, he looks quicker. He looks faster. He's just a more intentional driven player. But then I think the other aspect of what's really caught up to him is, remember, he was the kid that was put all of these unfair expectations, so much media coverage. I've apologized to him several times. I'm like, Connor, I know I'm part of the problem. Like, I interviewed you three times alone on your opening night when you're going up against Sidney Crosby.

Like, that was unfair. But he was with all these adults and everyone was like telling him how he should act or what it should be. And he was just kind of uncomfortable. And now people around the Blackhawks are like, he's with his peers. You see him and Frankie Nazar have like the buddy comedy going. Like, they're always together.

And I just think the most comfortable part of himself is showing up because he's around people like him. And then with the Blackhawks as a whole, I think a lot of people were like, okay, how long is this rebuild going to go? They're going nowhere. They put in all these stopgaps of all these veterans, like the Taylor Halls and all these guys

that just weren't really working out. Well, all of a sudden, the guys that they've drafted are here with him. And they have more first rounders out of the league than any other team in the league. This is only just a glimpse of what they're building here, but you see Frank Nizar, Sam Renzel, all over and more.

Like there's so much talent there that if they grow together, you can create something really special around now. It's going to be a very expensive player. Yeah, it's interesting. There's so many different areas that it's kind of manifested itself into that you could quantify statistically. He's up from 2017 per game last year to 2110 this year. So playing significantly more the skating, which we've talked about a lot, according to

NHL Edge data, 20 to 22 mile per hour bursts. He had 70 of them in 82 games last year. He already has more with 74 and 22. Faceoffs, he was under 39 percent in both of his first. first two seasons and we know how challenging that can specifically be for young young centerman he's up to 50 this year the shot rate is up uh uptick and in particular most important to me because i was a bit worried and part of it was the lack of talent around him so opposing defenses were just completely keying in on him and a lot of it when he wasn't off the rush it was kind of struggling to break into the

interior of the offensive zone up and inner slot shots slot passes offensive zone possession time with the stick the way he's protecting the puck while he's probing and surveying uh going from the perimeter to the interior i was watching that game on sunday night against the the avalanche and you know it winds up kind of crumbling on them in the second period where i think they get out shot 19 to 1 and they get shut out by scott wedgwood for back-to-back shutouts for the abs this weekend but bard was matched up head to head with mckenon for like 11 5-on-five minutes in that game and he wound up up getting the better of him in that time the forechecking this year where i think he's nearly doubled the pace of scoring chances he's on.

He has his play in the first period where he kind of attacks Kale McCarra along the wall, causes a turnover, sends it into the slot, set up three or four grade A's in a variety of different ways in that first period. And so I thought despite the result, it was very encouraging and kind of showed a lot of the core concepts that I think he's worked on this year. And so all of a sudden now, like last year was so gnarly for the Blackhawks, right? They finished with 61 points. They had a nearly negative 70 goal differential.

And now all of a sudden, the underlying numbers suggest they're probably playing over their head a little bit. And the goaltending has been remarkable from Spencer Knight. Thank you for saying Spencer Knight of it all because I was about to get there. He's been obviously phenomenal. I think that actually will continue because he looks very legit. But they're playing at a 90-point pace right now. And I think all we wanted to see was forget the playoffs, just upward trajectory in terms of improvement that fell short last year.

And we've certainly seen that across the board from both the individual and the team here. A hundred percent. And I think that they're doing so many smart. things with this rebuild that have to do with patience. Again, like, we're a very immediate society. We want payoff right away. But like, Artie Levsinov is a great example to me. Like, just the way that they're handling him, that now with the number two overall pick looks like the number two overall pick, I was at their opener in Florida. And it was a tough night for him. He got exposed in a lot of ways. And they knew going into the year, this is going to be

tough for our young defensive group, like when you've got Connor Murphy, but then Alex Flasick as like the grizzled old veterans, and you've got a, bunch of 20-somethings running around there. Like, there's going to be some growing pains. And they completely sheltered Lefshinov's minutes to put him in a position where Artie can be the best Artie. And then all of a sudden, you have a more confident player and a guy that looks like he belongs in the NHL and shouldn't be sent back down to Rockford.

Speaking of that, though, like, they have no problem keeping guys into Rockford or the HAL to overripe and overdevelops so they get to the NHL at the right moment. And then, like, you have a situation like Sam Renzel, who like was just a complete breakout said. Everyone's impressed and he hits a dip and they're like, we're fine just resting him for a little bit to make sure that he can come back and be the best version of himself. I think that's another trend we're seeing in the NHL right now with like all of these guys that are burning through that entry level contract first year and teams are saying like, okay, we've got this like rest and develop model where like they're not going to play all of the time because we just want

them under our hands in our development. You see it in Pittsburgh. You see it in San Jose. I think you're going to see it many more places. But I just think the Blackhawks holistically with how many prospects they have have done a really good job managing them all to make sure that again they can all peak at the right time. Alex Vossack's listening to this and he's 24 years old and he's like, oh my God, I'm a grizzled vet, but definitely relative to his peers here. Yeah, I got to do more reporting on that boots on the ground element for some of the offseason training. You know, they're working on with Blue Jackets PR on getting Kent Johnson on the show and he's one of those guys who trains with them in the offseason. And I've heard some stories about the epic three on

three games that they play and some of the training. And it's also funny because I understand, like, as a league, we need to do a better job of promoting the stars because so much of it has been team-oriented for years. And now we've got all these great young players that you want to sell and market. And we had that era obviously of Ovechkin versus Crosby and the appetite or interest that generated. But on the one hand, it's like these guys are going to be measured against each other, but also the camaraderie, I think, amongst all these guys coming up from the same place. And then all succeeding, I think, makes for a really cool story moving forward.

A hundred percent. And I can just only imagine how competitive those workouts were over the summer those skates were. Just because I think that's the one commonality that for sure drives celebrini and dard. So if you can get any video footage, whatever you can find, Dimitri, I'm going to put your big J journals and boots to the test. All right. The main reason I wanted to have you on is you're basically our resident insider here on the P.D.O.cast. and we still got a ways away until the March 6th trade deadline, certainly. And there's very little noise at the moment, although I do think, despite it being so early

in the calendar, the nature of this year's schedule, like Christmas is going to be here with a holiday break any day now, seemingly, and then we're going to get to the Olympics very quickly after that. And so I think it's going to expedite a lot of this. We've been speaking a lot about how there's this injury bug going around the league right now, and everyone is navigating at least two or three key absences. And so you'd think with that in mind that we'd have more. buzz right now in terms of the trade market and activity yet it's been pretty quiet and I think

part of it is just how condensed the standings are right we've spoken a lot about how close games are this year the sheer volume of games going to overtime there's seven teams already with five or more loser points losing an overtime banked and that represents like a quarter of their games play total and I think a byproduct of that many three point games is those highly condensed standings right there's 20 teams between 24 and 28 points right now. And that doesn't even include a handful who fall short of that that are in the low 20s and their teams like the Panthers, the Leafs, the Rangers who theoretically aren't going to pull the plug on the season and view themselves as contenders and want to bounce back as the season goes along.

And so we're in this spot now where I feel like there's such a dramatic imbalance between supply and demand of players available and teams looking to improve their rosters with some absences. So where are we at with that right now? What are you hearing in terms of how teams are sort of viewing that and the fact that it doesn't seem like anyone at this point really wants to sell? Even a team like the Flames, they've been pretty vocal recently about, and part of it might just be maintaining leverage and kind of posturing, but talking about how they like having their veterans there and they want to keep moving forward and being competitive. And so they're not exactly positioning themselves as a seller either. So where are we at right now with that?

I think you are bang on to first mention the condensed standings as a reason why we have the standstill right now. You know, we all listen to Elliot Friedman, and he kept saying right in the beginning of the year, the only team that's trying to actively get worse is the Pittsburgh Penguins. I heard the Pittsburgh Penguins use it as like some kind of bulletin material as well. Well, here they are in playoff spot, and there's no one that's truly that bad. I think the two teams that we're all looking at right now are the Calgary Flames, like you mentioned, and the Nashville predators, because whatever they do at this point, it's probably not going to be the playoffs.

One thing I have heard a lot of people around the league mention is no trade clause, no movement clauses have been handed out quite liberally over the last couple years. So in Nashville, those big ticket players that we're all looking at of like, okay, is it really working out with Stephen Stamco's? Is it really working out with Jonathan Marsha, so Ryan O'Reilly? They control some of their destiny here. And look, a lot of them like living in Nashville. families there, they've got kids in school, uprooting them during the season. It's a very

large conversation to have, especially this early into their tenure when they signed this big contract, hoping for something else. So I do expect as we go along here that we will get movement because we have to. It's the NHL. I also think that there's just too many compounding factors of why we just haven't moved, you know, the new salary cap and everyone trying to figure out what the new normals are. Like everyone thought that would create more movement, but it means that nobody's really that compressed against the cap and nobody really is forced to have to make those moves. The no double retention is going to be a huge thing once we get to the trade deadline.

A lot of teams love getting that third party to retain an extra 50%. And then there's the Olympic break of it all. And I think, you know, I kept getting being fun of at ESPN by my colleagues. Every time I'm doing an injury update, I'm like, okay, but what are the implications for the Olympics? Because that's all anyone cares about. But it's true. It's really what guys care about this year.

it's the Olympics. Everyone's, yes, they're focused on their team, but it's tunnel vision towards the Olympics. And then after that, we'll focus on the playoffs. And there's so many players that just will not get moved ahead of the Olympic break. That all can come maybe in the days after. So I'm expecting things to get done. Like I was at the GM meetings in early November in Toronto. And there were so many general managers that told me they were trying to make moves. And it's the guys that you haven't really heard of even. Like Kevin Adams, Buffalo told me, I'm trying to add a forward here. Bill Garron, the Wild, said, I'm not opposed to doing something. thing drastic. Now that was when his team was spiraling a little bit. They seemed to have

studied thanks to some good goal tending and good defense. But I think that there are conversations being had behind the scenes. It's just hard to find the player and the match given the salary cap and all of those other factors that I outlined. Yeah, I'd argue that aside from Colorado up top and they're kind of in a league of their own right now and then Nashville and Calgary at the bottom, we clearly don't have the juice this season. You've pretty much got 29 other teams that are hanging around and don't really know what to do at this point. I'd also think what's further adding to this and compounding it is the paradigm shift we saw last summer where teams are clearly more comfortable keeping their own players now

because all of a sudden they aren't in a cap crunch with everyone just having more available room. We saw, you know, previously teams would be very willing to dump contracts and even attach sweeteners to get off of that money to clear room to add. And then that wasn't the case. And in fact, teams were getting assets back whenever they would trade. a player with money owed to them. And so it's just making things a lot more complicated. I think right now for teams trying to add because everyone is capable and willing to retain their own players.

You mentioned that double retention. There's that 75-day window for double retention that's available. I think that times out to December 30th. And Drans and I have been hoping that that would mark kind of a first of two trade deadlines. I understand it's not really a video game. So there's real life logistics and complications of if a player, knows they're going to be moved again. It's like this weird 75 day period where you're just going to be in an intermediary location and having to move your family and do all that sort of

stuff. So it might not necessarily play out that way, maybe this season, maybe in the future it will. But I am eyeing that to see as kind of like, I'm marking that on my calendar, December 30th as a first trade headline. And I hope we see some stuff before then. You're right. And I do think there will be some small wave of trades that are made before the Olympic break. I think you're right in that like deadlines for actions. And I don't think that's an artificial deadline. That's a real one because the rules change after that. So I would eye that as well.

I also just think if you look at the teams that are really trying to shake things up like the blues, right? We know they're also in a season that isn't the way that they imagined. Well, Doug Armstrong has always said like I will let the players dictate what I do as a general manager and their results dictate that they probably should be sellers. But they also feel like in their market, they can't sustain a full rebuild. Like they have to stay competitive.

He's also handing the reins over to Alexander Steen as a new general manager next year. So if you think about the trades that he's actually looking for, it's going to be hockey trades. It's ones that don't necessarily subtract from his group, but add a different dynamic to his group. And I just think that the appetite to do hockey trades has increased so much, but the actual hockey trades that makes sense are so minuscule.

And that's why we just don't see trades. I just think so many teams are no longer interested in doing future deals. Like they want to be able to add to their team right now. And those are just way more difficult deals to orchestrate. Yeah, it's certainly way, way less defined in terms of buyers and sellers. And I think that that complicates matters because a lot of these teams that are trying to improve, they don't necessarily want to subtract from their main roster. And so those are the types of hockey trades you're talking about.

Do you want to get into a couple of the teams then that are sort of approaching decision time in terms of either how we want to classify a panic desperation mode or just an increased appetite to do something because of injuries or because they haven't been playing the way they were expecting to for sure let's do it i've got a couple here you mentioned the blues certainly i mean they're 29th in points percentage they're 30th and goals against per 60 they're 29th in say percentage we've seen dog armstrong be very willing to make trades on on a higher scale and hockey trades that when we're kind of going from a defenseman to a forward or vice versa. I've heard a lot of brain channel, though their ask has been quite high in past seasons.

We saw them magically turn around their year last year after making the coaching change and then going on that heater down the stretch. They're still in it from a standings perspective because everything is so condensed. But man, you know, they had a positive result over the weekend where they got good goaltending against the islanders, but for the most part, it's been such a struggle for them in terms of suppression. And they have a lot of good players. But a lot of guys, they've also floated around there in the past. And so I'm very curious to see if they're going to jump in the mix here as an entrance for what we're looking for. 100%. Well, firstly, as you're

outlining the blues, I jumped on to puckpedia, just for a quick reminder of the salary cap. Shout out to puckpedia. What would we do without them? They're doing a great job in the cap-friendly post-era. And I look at somebody their contracts. And nobody makes that much money like their highest paid player right now is jordan kairu at 8.125 mill that was a big contract when it was handed out in this new salary cap era that's quite affordable and i think that gives them theoretically a ton of flexibility braiden shen is another guy that you mentioned i know so many teams would love to get their hands on him but doug armstrong again like he can be uh i want to i don't want to use the word vicious that's what keeps coming up but

maybe ruthless in terms of like how he can look at things clinically of like i am just doing things best for my club and maybe making unemotional decisions at the same time if you're getting rid of a braiden shen if you're getting rid of a joid and kairu who have so much potential still as hockey players you better be getting someone who adds to their lineup and i just again don't know who that trade partner is and i believe that they've had a lot of conversations around the league what could this look like? What would you be willing to give us? But the fact that we're here and there really hasn't been any movement shows you what the market looks like. So I would expect this to be a team that does do something if their results remain consistent and remain the same.

Like again, this is not a team that wants to do a rebuild feels like they can do a rebuild. You hire Jim Montgomery. You've got a goalie in Jordan Bennington. You've got enough young talent here where you can win. But at the same time, there are some veteran contracts that you probably want to move off of and just getting guys that are more in the Jake neighbors, Robert Thomas, age range to grow with them. Listen, I've always got the devils on the mind, so it's no surprise to our listeners, but I think they certainly fit to build here. We love someone who thinks about New Jersey all the time.

Well, here's the thing. Jackie's missed the past four games, and on Sunday show, Drensen I broke down the full extent of how bleak their offense has looked without him around to create for everyone. Essentially, I think they've mustered three, five-on-five goals in those four games since he's been out of the lineup and they've all been by the top line with Braden-Hissure on it. And so they're in an interesting spot because they're still sitting in the metro by point's percentage behind the canes. Yet they've kind of deliberately, I think, been very careful or cautious about taking on future financial commitments because they want to keep their books

as clean as possible with an eye on the big picture and really scaling this thing out and having a long window with some of their young players. Yet the issue for me is, you've got this competitive advantage for the next two seasons, essentially, where your top two centers, Hughes and his year are making just over 15 million combined. And that is a massive luxury to round out the rest of your roster and really take a big swing. And they haven't maximized that to this point. They've kind of been working on the margins and trying to bring in depth players this past off season. And so I'm not sure if this continues without Hughes, whether that I'll expect the process or whether it'll be something we have to wait till the offseason for. But I'd

really like to see them get involved here because I still think this is a really good team despite those struggles. And the East is so wide open. I think Carolina is kind of in a class of their own at this point. But locking down the second in the Metro would be no small feet and at least getting home ice in round one. Yeah. When I touched base with Tom Fitzgerald, their GM after the Jack Hughes injury, he's very much spinning and optimistic tone. It was like a no sulking. This happens. I think they were all freaked out when it happened. It was really scary not as bad as they all imagined it could be like he will be fine for the Olympics everyone wants to know about the Olympic implication I think he could be back as soon as

Christmas probably early January but he was basically saying like other guys have to step up like we've got a team of depth like this is an opportunity and we'll see like we'll see if those guys can step up I also know that he's a general manager that is very aggressive and they believe that they are in a window right now where they can win like when they sign Markstrom to that extension. It basically was like, okay, this is our window right now. Like, let's go for it and figure it out after that. I think all teams around the league are looking at their right side and saying Simone Nemitz and the way that he stepped up this year, could that make Ducky Hamilton expendable? And I think there have been some conversations

about Ducky Hamilton. I also know that they absolutely love the player and are probably not. And, you know, like we have to move him in order to get what we want. But that's a chip that they do have in order to try to upgrade their team in other ways, I would absolutely keep an eye on them. I just think that they believe that they're in an opportunity right now where they can win, where they have enough pieces. They looked fantastic to start the year. So we'll see how they're able to sustain in this one month or six weeks without Jack Hughes now and then go from there. But I think you're right to pinpoint them as a team that can be aggressive here. And we know what their needs are. Well, the natural connection going from the devils would

be the Canucks. And it's been hideous for them. Why would it be natural? Well, for I'm joking. I'm just closing reasons. Uh, they're 30th and point percentage minus nine goal differential. They played on Sunday night at home against the flames and while I'm giving up five straight goals against and their defense has been very, very tough to watch this season. And they've got a bunch of guys like a key for sure would obviously who had that goal scoring explosion early in the year that is a UFA, a kind of an awkward time in terms of, of his, age and what that future commitment would look like and whether that makes sense for the Canucks and he plays certainly a playoff style that I think any number of teams would be very interested

in yet they're an organization that hasn't really shown any appetite to make those types of moves to think pragmatically about where they're at and kind of acquiring future assets and building this thing out and they're also in an awkward spot because of the Quinn Hughes timeline where he's eligible for an extension this off-season. He's going to be entering the final year of his deal next summer. And if you punt this season away, that makes that very complicated in terms of maintaining leverage. Yet at the same time with the way they're playing,

even if they don't do anything, they might wind up getting there anyways. And so I'm not really sure how they're going to handle this, but they're approaching a very interesting spot from a timeline and decision-making perspective. Well, you get to talk to Drance all the time. So I'm going to leave him as the expert for all things, Canucks. But I'll give you two tidbits of just what I look at them.

One, we talked about the stagnant trade market. It has been so obvious. I think they must have even said it out loud. They have been looking for a center all season long. Like they look at their center depth and it's just not comparable to be able to keep up with the rest of the league. They have not been able to trade for a center. That's just been, you know, I think that they've tried with Pavalzaka. They probably tried with a couple other players.

It's hard. It's just it's really hard right now to find centers and it's really hard to acquire players and let's look at all these extensions and we might talk about the summer's market. But like all the big fish that you think might become UFAs all resigned with their teams and all of a sudden we're looking at a pretty depleted pool. Then there's the Quinn Hughes of it all. And, you know, I think we love Jim Rutherford because he is open and transparent and sometimes can't help himself. And you wonder about these Quinn Hughes, you know, drama and rumors. said he wants to go play with his brothers. The only person who actually brought this up publicly was Jim Rutherford, Quinn Hughes' GM himself, and that's why it became such a thing. And so it is a thing. Like obviously, he's speaking from a place of knowledge. You know, there's some things behind the scenes.

I think Quinn, from his perspective, wants to see how this season's going to go before he makes a decision. But at some point, there is going to be a pressure point. And it sounds like they might try to have it this season where I always assumed it was going to be over the summer of like, hey, man, are you in? you out. And if you're out, like we've got to figure this out. I've always been of the personal

belief, and this is just Emily Kaplan, that playing with his brothers is a bit overrated as a storyline. Yeah, of course, it's always been the dream of any brothers growing up to be able to play with each other in the NHL. I think if he doesn't resign in Vancouver, it's as much about wanting just to get closer to the eastern side of the United States where his friends and family are. So I personally would keep an eye on teams like the Red Wings, maybe even, the Rangers, teams like that. But we're not at that point yet. Like they're still in it. I don't think they've come to him and said like, hey, Quinn, you've got to choose here and we'll figure out where we go. But it sounds like we're getting to that point probably sooner rather than later.

Well, the reason why it's developing is not only the state of the Canucks, as I mentioned, but to your point, we've already seen the likes of Kempe, Natchez, Kyle Connor, Eichol, Caprizov, signed these eight-year extensions since the start of the season to take advantage of these last vestiges of the current CBA, and I talked about that window that's coming up at the end of December for the double retention, we're going to have an incredibly fascinating window between July 1st and September 16th this summer, where players who are going to be 2027 UFAs are going to be eligible to sign an eight-year extension with a lot of the structuring from the past CBA with bonuses and upfront money that's not going to be available to them after September 16.

And for a lot of guys who are at that age range where if you're in your late 20s, that extra year down the line is in your mid to late 30s where you probably won't have that type of bargaining power again. And so it's a massive difference. And so that includes Quinn Hughes, Kail McCar, the aforementioned Nico Hishier, Kutrov's at a bit of a different timeline because of his age. But he's also in that mix. And so I'm fascinated about this summer because we've spoken a lot about how lean that UFA pool is with all those guys being taken. taken and subtracted out of it, yet I think there's going to be a whole other conversation, I guess, about some of these guys a year down the line and what that's going to look like and how that's going to affect the trade market and potential ways for teams to creatively

improve their teams this summer. I'm scared of being the girl that cried wolf, but I feel like the last two drafts, I've sat there at the table being like, there's going to be unprecedented movement. We are entering the age of NBA-style deals. Like, you are going to see trades. Teams are eager to do it. and then it's been an absolute dud. We get maybe one, two moves, and that's about it.

I think, I think, based off of the way things have gone and how unattractive now this UFA pool is, that maybe this is the summer where, again, because of all the things and everyone's adjusting to these new realities, we're paralyzed a bit during this year, the weird Olympic year, yes, we'll get some trades. But over the summer, teams are going to really take stock of how can we improve our team.

And that's when they'll be willing to take those riskier hockey trades, player, for player moves. But you can also quote this and take this clip and find me saying it the last two years and being like, this girl just keeps crying into the wind. Yeah, I was going to say, I'd like to take that at face value. And I'd certainly like to believe that some of these deadlines are going to force action. Yet, I feel like insiders, you being one of them, have it in your contract that you have

to promote the upcoming event as being the most seismic one in terms of movement that we've ever seen. And then it winds up being stuff involving third liners and depth defensemen. it's a conservative league. I think that there's just there are people who like to take risks, but they're very calculated risks. And, you know, I think part of it is the nature of the players that dictate this. Again, they're the ones that are being conservative of like, hey, I don't want to uproot my life. I'd rather go with the devil I know and sign a long term deal with the team that drafted me. But we're at a point now where to your point, I'm saying this year after year and let's just look at proof of concept here. The history tells us that it's probably not going to. happen in this really exciting way that we're all fantasizing about yeah especially because of the reasons that i mentioned is just becoming so much easier for teams to keep their guys if they want to and so their hands not necessarily being forced and so it's kind of enabling a lot of that behavior that that makes for a less fun environment you mentioned the sabers and kevin adams earlier i want to talk

to you about Alex talk because i listed all those names of ufas who have taken themselves out of consideration and then now all of a sudden he's looking around and he's essentially the last guy left in terms of a legitimate top line talent that could come in and make a meaningful difference for an organization. And he's at a fascinating spot as well because he's got 21 points and 22 games. We obviously know about the size speed combo that I think a lot of teams would be highly coveting, yet he's going to be 30 in May. He's also, I imagine, going to be looking for a massive payday because he's on this kind of, he's been playing on like an old relic of a contract where he's essentially been making 4.75 million flat every year with no bonuses, no anything,

no added perks that he signed with Vegas back in 2019. And so for the Sabres, they obviously had that miserable start. They bounced back a little bit, then had the long losing streak. They're four and one now since that losing streak. Zach Benson came back. They had a couple nice wins here over the past week. They're only as a byproduct of those condensed standings, only four or five points behind essentially everyone in the Atlantic. There's so much historical baggage in terms of constantly being sellers or losing guys and then watching them go to other places and look awesome. And I imagine a guy like Alex Tuck, if he went to a good team, would have a lot of success

and look awesome. So how do you kind of see that playing out and sort of this idea that he all of a sudden now has a ton of leverage just because of the state of the market and the lack of options available elsewhere other than him? Yeah, I've been trying to get a read on this one. I mean, my background and I guess my bias is I'm always somebody who roots and who wants to believe in the Sabres because I just think the league is better if that market is engaged. And I look at the start of their season and it was just on relenting bad luck. I mean,

it's like Zach Benson getting hit with a puck in the face at practice and spending two nights in the hospital before the home opener. It's like Kesslerin. You get so excited. This is who you get back as the prize in the J.J. Patarka deal. And you've barely seen him play. He's now injured twice. So like it goes, it goes. It goes. This is the way it goes in Buffalo. But sometimes you need to see progress and we really haven't gotten there yet where they're taking that jump in that group that they were in like the Ottawa, Montreal, Detroit group. Like it feels like they've kind of lagged behind. As it pertains to talk, like I've just tried to get or read on where we stood. It sounds like they had some pretty good talks over the summer going into the season. Nothing got done.

Then they took a bit of a pause. It was funny. When I talked to Kevin Adams, it was like maybe two or three weeks into the season. He implied to me that like falls in Alex's court right now. Like he knows where we're stand like we're ready for him to come to us my read is tuck is like okay well the contract that you guys are willing to offer me is not really consummate to what i think i can be worth out there to your point he's been underpaid for all these years he knows what his value is out there so he's probably more inclined to let it see it play out a little bit i think that they're kind of in the same boat as minnesota where if you have a guy that wants to stay you're not necessarily the market that can say like hey yeah all good like we'll replant us

They've drafted very well. Like they've got really great young skilled players. But when you have someone like Alex Tuck and he's from the area and he believes in what you guys are doing, my inclination is you've got to overpay a little bit to keep him. So we'll see who budge is there. He's a name that I'm watching. And then I feel like the other guy that nobody is mentioning as a possibility. It might be the biggest name left in the 2026 UFA pool is Nick Schmaltz in Utah.

And I think the way that Utah has taken care of business, he might be the odd man out and he can be prime for a big payday like i think he's having a career year here at age 29 just lining up in a very nice way for a very skilled player who i remember him when i was i live in chicago and he was always the kid that was just following on patrick cane like a puppy dog like he just wanted to be patrick cane and like he's definitely got some caner in his game but it seems like he's kind of come into his own man here with a mammoth yeah on the on the sabers front with talk it's interesting hearing you talking about how the you know they engaged in the offse And I feel like with a couple guys, especially their RFAs, they might have mistimed where the market was headed because the price of the brick back in the summer is not the same as it is now.

Because with every passing contract and every name being taken off the board, all of a sudden, everyone's leverage has just increased so much. And so it makes sense that talk would be feeling out. Okay, you mentioned a couple times the Olympics and how every conversation you have on these broadcast seems to steer orient around that. Let's end with that. And in particular, talking about some, what you're hearing about some of the guys who I think entered the offseason, you know, going to the orientation camps in the off season for their various countries and being in the mix by considering how big the group for those countries was. And then also the talent available and the fact that it seems like, especially for Canada and USA, they're going to be bringing back a lot of the guys that they brought to the four nations as well. It doesn't leave that many spots available, but especially for the young players that we can go through all of them if you want. they've played so well and been so productive

and shown such massive development that all of a sudden I think they have forced some reconsideration or some re-evaluation in terms of their candidacy for it. So let's get into that for both Canada and U.S. and whether guys like certainly Celebrini Bedard and Schaefer

from what you're hearing are going to be real considerations for Canada this year's Olympics. I think out of, we'll start with Canada briefly. I know more about the U.S., like focus more the U.S. here as a U.S.-based company and just kind of just what we care about at ESPN. Celebrini is firmly, firmly in the mix. I think he has endeared himself to hockey Canada,

showing up at the world championships, playing as well as he did, getting that mentorship from Sid and Nate, and then just absolutely lighting it up, being a dog, being super competitive, being the play driver for the San Jose Sharks. I think they feel comfortable about his two-way play. I think that's a big thing in this tournament, especially with young players or guys that haven't been on the biggest stages like the Stanley Cup. How do you handle those moments where it's such a tight checking game where there's no time and space? Like, does that frustrate you? Do you find ways? Do you find solutions? And I think Celebrity has answered all of those questions to, at this point, I will be shocked if he doesn't

get onto the Olympic team. I think, you know, they're not going to say, oh, leaving off Sid back in 2010 was a mistake but looking back on it you probably would have brought teenage sid i think Connor and matthew are just on the outside looking in at this moment i think all three players probably weren't that much consideration entering the year and just the way that they've started has been so good but i just think when it comes to team canada there's so much depth and they really seem to be over indexing guys that have that championship experience that like when sam bennett had as poor of a start to the season as he had. And I think some people are like, are they going to leave him off? Could they bring him? And the answers I was getting is like, oh, no, no, no, no, nobody's worried

about Sam Bennett. Like, they know when he gets to this tournament, like he'll be Sam Bennett. And I think so many of the answers just kind of default to that of prior history that you're not going to see a ton of changes, but there will be some changes. And I think there are some guys that are on the radar that we probably haven't talked enough about. Like Beau Horvett, I've heard, is getting a very significant look here. Tom Wilson, I think it's obvious that we definitely made a mistake of not including him in Four Nations the way that he's played. He would be the best fourth liner possible. He knows how to handle those emotional games. He's gone through the maturity process. He brings so much, like I'll be surprised at this point of Tom Wilson's not on the team. So that's kind of

where I'm at with Canada. I think they're going to have more changes than the U.S. has. when it comes to the U.S., every time I talk to Bill Garan, dating back to the summer about what is going to look like for the Olympics, he begins with, we had a really good Four Nations team. Like, we were really happy with that team. And I just get the sense that there's not going to be a ton of changes. I think Annette, they for sure were looking at Thatcher Demko as the third goaltender. Like, we'll see. I think the third goaltender is definitely up for grabs right now.

I'm curious where Spencer Knight fits into all of that with the start that he's had. being a young guy. Jeremy Swayman is certainly still in the mix. But I think we all kind of assume that maybe some of those veteran, you know, versatility guys, the Brock Nelson, the Chris Kreider, the Vincent Trocheck, maybe they would be on the outside looking in. But who is really knocked on the door in a way that is forced their way on the roster? Now, I think Clayton Keller will be on it. I think that they put such a value on the world championships as a program, going to the world championship, serving your country, showing that dedication and commitment. Clayton Keller was the captain for Team USA at the world when they won the first gold medal in over 90 years. I believe

had 10 points. It was like tied for the lead and scoring on the team. It'd be hard to keep him off. I think he was one of the last cuts for the Four Nations team and probably deserves to be there. Tage Thompson, I think in the way that he's played since Four Nations has also really been forcing his hand. But then I think of a guy like Cole Cawfield, who I really want to see. And I feel like they were missing that guy who could score the big goals when they got to the gold medal game against Canada. And you're like, where is a guy like Cole who just somehow always finds the way? And I, from the conversations I've had, I think their thinking is, okay, we need guys that are really versatile that can play in the top six and bottom six. And I don't know if that's

necessarily fair because, okay, maybe you don't feel comfortable putting Cole in the bottom six, but he's a top six player. And then the guys that are in the top six slot them down. And that just creates a deeper team. So my personal philosophy would putting a guy like Cole Cawfield, or now Jason Robertson, who is one of the hottest goal scores and point producers in the league on the team, I'm not sure they're going to make the cut. And that's just because of the identity and the way that Team USA often builds their team around guys that just fit the team concept rather than what they can do individually. Yeah, I agree with you. I think that would be a mistake on their part, especially as you watch that Four Nations tournament, it was obviously very competitive

and they had a great team but when you get to the later stages it's going to be so much more difficult with the amount of speed and defensive ability to create and I think they need more scoring juice or options and I don't think it's a surprise that guys like Larkin or Boldie who kind of looked like they were on the peripheries heading into that tournament with the pace they could play at and how valuable they are all of a sudden wound up rising up the ranks and playing prominent roles as that tournament progressed and so I had on my list the three guys or the two guys you mentioned there in Coffield and Jason Robertson, certainly Robertson, with how just red hot he's been.

And I thought even before the scoring streak had been playing so well and looks finally healthy this season, I'd also include a guy like Cutter Goce, who has a lot of runway ahead of him because of how young he is and how the lack of, I guess, experience or in terms of how long he's been doing this for. But man, with the story, the ducks have provided us this year and just the rate of which he's generating shots and what a weapon that is, I feel like putting him in that slot and playing with other guys you can get in the puck would be a phenomenal thing to see. So yeah, the thing that I love about this tournament and I'm with you in terms of the

excitement beyond the games themselves, which are obviously played at the highest level, is the impact it has on the season we're in. Obviously, once the teams get announced, you get that sort of revenge factor element of guys who maybe got left off all of a sudden taking their game up to an even further level to kind of prove or show that the team made a mistake. And then the young players who do wind up making it on teams and getting that experience coming back and being better for it and integrating that into their games with their clubs

but also this scouting process I was watching, I forget what game it was. It was a Capitals game when you were mentioning Tom Wilson. I think it was the one against the Oilers last week and you had Team Canada Brass with Doug Armstrong and Caldubus in attendance and the broadcast was talking about how juiced Tom Wilson was for that and what a surreal experience it is for a lot of these guys

who are in their mid to late 20s have been in the league for a long time. I have won Stanley Cups are making a ton of money and yet they feel like their kids again being scouted essentially for a team and trying to prove themselves and everyone is motivated at this level but it feels like it adds a bit extra juice I think for all these guys this season and so that's really fun from our perspective totally it's just completely added dynamic to what's already a really fun league um I would say in terms of just the way that we all view it I think

we get so excited and maybe the league storyline so far has been look at these young guys commanding the spotlight and really leaning in and showing that the younger generation is here and exciting and worth investing in. But the decision makers for both team Canada and team USA, I mean, Doug Armstrong and Bulgarian have both told me some version of this quote of like, this isn't a developmental tournament.

Like, we're going to win. And so it's whatever the 23 players that give us the best chance to win this tournament, that's who we're taking. Not like, okay, well, it's good to give them experience and exposure for the next Olympics or the next world. Like, they're not thinking of it like that. And the other thing that Bill Garron told me is, again, as much as I do think those

performances like Tom Wilson, I know Connor Bardard has had a couple where team Canada Brass is also in the arena watching and scouting him. It's like, Bill Garron's like, it's not a peewee tournament. Like, we're not scouting over this two-month stretch. Like, it's your whole body of work, your career resume. Like, we take way more nuance into that. So I think some of our recency bias when you see it. a guy going on like a total hot streak right now maybe just temper it a bit and consider the

larger body of work in their career yeah but to your point with the way the league is heading the future is now in a certain certain way right like a lot of these guys are are just already there and they haven't been doing it for a long time but the level they're playing at right now that's something i think you want to tap into and take advantage of in a tournament where you don't have a lot of room for error and you need guys playing at their absolute best right it's now you're not going to have a lot of time to to ramp up once those games start you're going to need to be clicking on all cylinders. So I think the guys who are playing well and it would make sense to reward them for that. All right. We usually end these shows with me asking you about teams you've been around

as you were telling me before we went on. You've been doing more of a studio role this season. You haven't been traveling as much. So I guess I can't ask you about what teams you've been around. You're kind of more so just covering the league and making calls. Or do you have any other broadcast coming up or are you just doing studio for now? Yeah. It's kind of a quiet time at ESPN. And we really come out strong in October and, you know, opening night in the next couple weeks. And then November, December, like college basketball is on the network a lot. We have a lot of our plus games. But we'll come on strong in December and then January, especially when football's over.

You'll be seeing a lot more hockey in the ecosystem of ESPN. So this is my long way of saying. I've got like nothing specific. If there's any teams you want to chit chat about them, always game. But it's definitely been a different season for me, but I've been enjoying it. just kind of riding the ride. All right. Well, good stuff.

I'm looking forward to some of these deadlines we were talking about. And then maybe once we get another 20 games or so, and I'm going to have you back on. And we'll make it a tradition where we do it more frequently and don't wait for just once a year. Maybe we'll make it a every couple months or so. Anything you want to promote on the way out? I would love to break down the Olympic teams with you.

That will be a fun one. Okay, let's do it. Let's put on the calendar. What do you want to promote on the way out? Nothing. You, your podcast. I love you, Dimitri. You do such a great job.

You're such a great voice for the sport. So I get nothing. Well, I'll take it. I'm going to clip that, send that to the bosses, use it as a promotional material for the show. You know, we had Rick Talkett on this past summer. And at the end, he totally unprovoked, had this rant about how much he enjoyed being on the podcast and how we're doing it differently than everyone else. And I was like, man, that is the best promotional material I had. But that's the one you had is right up there with Rick Talkett.

All right. Well, sorry with such a short clip. I'll go on and on and be very effusive. But you really are a great voice for this space. And I know that fans appreciate you. So keep doing what you're doing. Awesome. Well, thank you.

I believe. We'll have you on again soon. My plugs. Subscribe to a PDOCast Patreon, where you can have access to extra shows every week. Give us a five-star review wherever you listen. Those are much appreciated. Join the PDOCast Discord as well. That's all for now.

We've got another episode coming later today, though. I've got the great Shane at Goldman on to talk about a variety of different things. And, you know, I usually take these Mondays off because we do the Sunday show, but I know that it's American Thanksgiving. this week. And I know a lot of people are going to be commuting and traveling to visit family. And so I wanted to give everyone extra listening material. So we've got today's show here with Emily. We've got another show coming with Shana. Plenty more later this week as well. Thank you for listening to the HockeyPedocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.

Wait, one last thing. If I can have one last plug, Shana Goldman is the best. I want to give my plug to Shana. It's such a great guest and she's such a great voice. So I'll be listening to that. Absolutely co-assigned that as well. All right, Emily. We'll talk to you. Thank you for listening. to the Hockey PEOCast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio Network.