The Hockey PDOcast - Deep Diving Timo Meier's Game

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

Jesse Marshall joins Dimitri to break down the tape on Timo Meier, his unique skill set and offensive versatility, and the most interesting landing spots to get the most out of him moving forward. This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty.  The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Jesse Marshall. Jesse, what's going on, man? Good to be with you, as always. Thanks again for having me. It's the triumphant return of the film club. I love it. We've done Crosby, I think. We did Josh Morrissey last time. Today we're doing Tim O'Mire, a player that we choose to feature for this installment. wrote about him. I've been thinking a lot about him, you know, collectively as as a hockey community.

We've been talking a lot about him. I presume that I'll only continue to be discussed even further up until the March 3rd deadline or at least until he's traded. So this is perfect timing. This is, we're going to get right into it. We're going to talk about what we see from him on tape and how he attacks, what he does, what he brings at a table, how he would fit with potential contenders, all that good stuff. So I'll open the floor to you here in your in your deep dive, of him. What do you see on tape from, from Tim O'Meer that really sticks out to you the most? So I think he is the 2023 version, Dimitri, of what it means to be a dominant net front presence. I think you, I always, you know, laugh when there's this like humphying, you know,

between data and video. This is one of those scenarios, man, where like you look at the, the shot maps on hockey viz and the rates at which the sharks generate shots with Timom Meyer on the ice. And there's this dense area of crimson, almost black, red, right in the crease. And then you look at what the sharks do when T.MMIR is not on the ice. And it's a zip. They barely sniff the crease without him. It's a, you know, I use the word habitual and second nature, like in the article a lot.

Because I try to drive home the point that if you watch the tape on him, everything he does is, is followed by going to the front of the net. So come across the zone with possession, pass, get to the front of the net. Win a puck battle along the wall, pass, get to the front of the net. I mean, he lives there. And it's not the, you know, a lot of people in my mentions, Demetri said, oh, I thought about Patrick Cornquist when I read that article. I didn't because I think Patrick Cornquist is more of the bop you over the head style of nuisance net front player.

Yeah, more stationary, right? Yeah, where is Tim Omyra move around and stalks that open area and is more of a premonition type player. of I'm going to go to where the puck is going to be. And I know where I'm going to need to go to score a goal. I frankly, and this isn't a knock on him, none of his offensive skills, they're all like, they're fine, right? That's it.

You don't look at him. You don't say like Jason Robertson, for example, he said, oh my God, what a shot? Look at his shot. I mean, his release, the velocity, all this. With Tim Omeyer, it's fine. His shot's fine. It's area play. It's knowledge.

And it's living and really dedicating yourself to getting to those scoring areas around the crease. All the videos I post, you know, I show him taking all these really important actions at five on five play and then again, just setting up a base camp for the net and living there. And if, you know, it's rare to see one, a forward have that kind of impact on his five to five results for his team, you know, and look at the impact he has when, you know, versus when he's on and not on the ice. But then it's separate from that, you know, just don't see forwards doing it habitually like that anymore. You know, it's, it's, the game's changed now. And, you know, it's not the, it's not the 90s version of net front play, but it's a new version that I think that, frankly, I don't think anyone's doing better than he is.

Yeah, he extends it, you know, compared to some of the other, like, traditional net front guys you think of where it's much more, as you said, with Hornquist, he just kind of like stands in front of the net, makes you have a defender on him just is a nuisance to deal with from a physicality perspective there. He's moving much more. It's also extended out a bit further, right? I'd say, like, he's like the, the prototypical. home plate area player in today's game where he's always moving in the offensive zone.

That's what I really notice. He always makes himself available for passes, right? Like how many instances are there where all of a sudden they get that first shot? Then he's kind of circling around and he finds a way to get himself in the middle of the ice again to either put a stick down for a redirection or just make himself available in that way. And so it was really cool seeing that. You're right. I mean, I think part of that is the fact that the sharks have like three good offensive players.

and they typically load them up together for especially offensive zone shifts at 5-1-5. So part of that on-vers off, I think, is because of that. But you're right. And he's taken his game to another level since the start of last year, clearly. But even when he wasn't producing the way he is right now, he's pretty much always in the NHL been like a high-danger chance-generating machine, right? Like now he's much more featured in the offense and basically is him and a hurdle up front. But even when they were deeper and when he was playing, you know, softer.

lighter minutes, whenever he was on the ice, he seemed to be creating like a high danger chance, every other shift almost I felt like. So this is just a continuation and extension of like a player like that entering his prime and sort of putting it all together offensively. I would generally think of like prototypes like that of being, you know, good skaters. But I think, you know, even some of his most impressive work out, you talk about these lanes he takes, right, and getting to the net. I mean, you look at him on on entries, especially where he doesn't have the puck. He'll get as far away as he can from everyone else. I just didn't try to. to try to lurk and linger.

But he also has the ability to get from point A to point B really quickly. And I don't think he has, you know, necessarily a traditional blazing top end speed, but his ability to get to his top end speed is very short. That enables him to, and I posted a lot of clips of this nature too to me, attack and forecheck. You know,

that's just as much as this to get to the front of the net thing as anything else. Is if you're breaking the puck out of your zone as a defenseman, you have to be aware. he can get to you quickly. He's aggressive. His closing speed is really fast. And when he gets the puck from you, I mean, you know where he's going with it. So there's no mystery there.

But I think that's the thing that shocked me again. If we talk about like, again, prototypes, right? And like traditional guys that are good in that home plate area, like you said, we don't generally think of them being quick to the puck's, good four checkers, fast. You know, again, these are all attributes. You could kind of throw at him. It gives him a whole other dynamic. element to his game that enables him to get to those scoring areas more frequently.

Yeah. At 515 specifically this year, he's first in shot attempts, first in shots on goal, and I believe only Zach Hyman has more high danger chances generated than according to natural statric. And so in preparation for the show, because I knew we were going to really geek out and deep dive it, I decided to spend my entire morning watching back every single one of those shot attempts he's taken this year to see just kind of trends, takeaways, what he was doing, how he was getting there. And we're going to talk a lot more about that. I will say, I know Eric Carlson's getting a lot of love, and he's either the Norris Trophy favorite or right up there with Adam Fox is a 1A, 1B situation.

And he's the one making $12 million this year, so he should probably be picking up the tabs on a lot of road trip dinners. But I feel like Timo Meyer owes him a few dinners for how much he's made his life easier this season. I mean, he has been putting the puck on a silver platter for him so frequently. And they have obviously a great chemistry together. But to Meyer's credit, what I said, like, I think it's a real skill that he's able to sniff out these, you know, soft areas in coverage in the offensive zone, get a stick down and anticipate that play and make himself available. And then once he receives it, corral the pass and do something with it.

But the way Carlson's looking for him and the way he's setting up so far this season, it's truly magical. They run this like little set play. I'm not sure if you saw it in your tape study of them where it's always off the left circle in the offensive zone, right? And they win it back. and Meyer starts off the shift at the left far far out hash marks. Once the puck comes back to Carlson at the point, Meyer makes his way cross body to the right wing. As he's doing so and floating through the zone,

he opens up for the one-timer, and Carlson kind of hits him out with this like stretch past diagonal, one-timer opportunity. And they've run out a few times this year, and it's so beautiful to watch. So I just love the way those two guys kind of play off of each other. And it's a perfect mesh of skills, it feels like a guy who's so good.

at distributing the puck and someone who not only loves to shoot it but loves to shoot it from these dangerous areas. You gotta love that set play too, Demetri, because it's only bolstered by the NHL's lack of interest in calling any kind of interference on Thomas Hortles, putting a plow on the front of his jersey and pushing everybody out of the way to make that lane for Meyer along the way. Yeah, that's great. No, you're right. And, you know, there's that line in particular, you know, so much good offense in this

league when you look at, you know, I think I said in the article, and I might misquote this, but they're in the top three or four LeBlanc Meyer and Hurdle were in terms of their expected goal generation. And that was among, I think, lines of at least 300 minutes. You're talking about really heavy hitters as far as playing together is concerned. Their ability to go off script as well. And I think when they elongate offensive zone possessions and they're wearing a team out, they almost sense that.

I don't want to use a shark pun here, right, like blood in the water. But they'll, I mean, you see them out there for like a minute 35 sometimes, like just holding court in the offensive zone. Everybody's in motion, circular wise. You've got LeBlanc moving around, hurdle, dish and pucks off, Meyer planted in front of the net. Carlson activating and acting like a fourth forward pinching down the wall. It's exhausting. I mean, I don't know what you do. You don't let them in the zone.

That's really it. You just can't let them in the zone because they can't. get going and there's no it's not a system right it's it's three guys that are all equally talented in really battle areas of the ice uh being a nuisance and tough to knock off the puck uh that that that stood out to me too is just how much of this isn't written and it's just a you know um bully style hockey if you will yeah yeah they i mean they freelance really well all each other and that's something that you know highly skilled offensively gifted players tend to do um and it's nice that those guys have found it even on a bad team.

You know, Meyer's shot 10.7% last year. He's at 12.3 this year. He's at like 10.4 or so for his career. It's funny watching him as a shooter. I'm not sure if you feel this way, but I feel like, you know, in totality, it captures the fact that he's a volume shooter by nature, despite the fact that he gets him from high danger areas. But I feel like it doesn't do justice, like, how lethal his shot potentially can be.

I know you noted that like he's not, doesn't necessarily his shot doesn't, the Jason Robertson style stand out of like, wow, he's just going to stand there pick his spot and there's nothing you can do about it. But it feels like once he gets his feet set and I'm no shooting mechanics doctor by any means, but it feels like once he's in a good shooting position, it's actually quite a weapon and quite a threat. The problem is sometimes he's a bit loose, I think, or chaotic with like he just likes to get the puck. And then all of a sudden, even if he's far out, he just like spins around and wildly throws it towards the net. And I know, that counts as a shot, especially if it goes on goals, it brings down a percentage or it counts as a shot at

him, which is why he leads the league in them. And I'm not a huge fan of those plays, because I know it's all like, yeah, get the puck on that. Good things can happen. It can bounce in, create further rebound opportunities. It is a bit of an inefficient way or a low percentage play, in my opinion. At the same time, though, it's kind of like what you get with him, right? He's not, he's not Alex Tangay. He's not going to, like, wait for the perfect opportunity to shoot and then capitalize on it. he you take that volume and kind of deal with it. And in the grand scheme of things, it's not that big of a negative,

but I did want to note it because sometimes you can sort of see, it doesn't matter in the situations they're playing in, right? Like the sharks are losing a lot. They're in kind of these wild games. There's not that much structure involved. I do wonder whether if they, if he gets traded to a team and is all of a sudden in these like tight playoff games,

whether it can become a bit of a, an annoying habit for, for his teammates and for fans to deal with if he doesn't rain it in or, or sort of, you know, play a bit more disciplined offense. on game. Well, yeah, certainly not picky to your point, right? Like, oh, yeah, and there are picky shooters in this league. I think, I think where it becomes a detriment and where it can become a detriment, I hasn't really to this point yet this year, but you mentioned these playoff games.

You mentioned there are some teams that are going to be in the market for his services, given how affordable he is, that are a little bit more rigid with their offensive structures. I think where it becomes problematic is when it's a shift killer, right? And you do see this throughout the league pretty frequently. As guys will come in, they pull up, they shoot from distance, it's high off the glass, that's a transition attempt. You've robbed your team of an entire shift of shots and scoring chances, right? So you don't see that a ton from him. At least I haven't in the games that I watched.

It's worth noting, though, to your point, right? Like, I think the quickness, the quickness with which he wants to get it off of his stick. Yeah. Can I think sometimes be short-sighted for sure. But I do like the, I don't want to say want to, nature, but like what I like is when it touches his blade, it's gone sometimes. And especially when you're in those high danger chances where there's not enough time to be picky. And you've got goalies taking side to side movements. You don't, you know, it's don't get me wrong.

It's nice feeling to have the puck roll off the back of your blade, you know, for this crisp wrist shot. But I think for Meyer, it's if I can get a part of myself on it, elbow, knee, stick. I'll take that. So, but yeah, that's a good. call out. And I think after, we're all assuming that this trade gets happened, but it gets executed at some point. But, you know, if it does, and he does land somewhere else, and is going to be interesting to see what happens with that volume and if it does adjust at all, and if perhaps there's less freedom for him to take those kind of decisions. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now he's certainly, like, he's in a very perfect spot for him on a personal level in terms of getting his, right?

It's like, get out there. It doesn't matter. You shoot as much as you want. everything's going to funnel through you. We've got, as you said, Eric Carlson, as a fourth forward, they're basically, you know, pinching every single time and keeping some of these possessions alive. And I think that plays into why some of the shots he chooses to take are possession killers because they have four forwards out there for most of these shifts. And so they're just like extending all these plays and then hemming you in and keeping you tired

and keeping it going. But like I said, it's kind of part of the tradeoff. And ultimately, I don't mind it from the perspective of part of the perks of his game is that constant movement, right, and getting second, third, fourth opportunities. And it's not just a one and done. Like, he certainly can carry it into the zone and do that solo act himself. But a lot of it is just getting those shifts going. And I think that is something that his future coach and, you know, fans of whatever team are cheering them on in playoff games are going to enjoy like that, that sort of traditional, like, let's just grind out an 80 second shift in the offensive zone here, tire out the other team, draw a penalty, get on the power play.

Really like feel like we're establishing momentum. he does a lot of that. So it's kind of like it's part of the whole package, I think. Yeah. And I mean, you look at the rate at which he draws penalties and then the level of competition he's playing against like those two things juxtapose next to each other paint,

I think a picture of what his skill set is. I, yeah, that's it. You know, I think I often question, you know, look, at the end of the day,

how defensively, we had this conversation a million times. I mean, how defensively impactful or wingers, right? I think his defensive impacts this year, especially are so good. or better because he's just not having to play a lot of defense.

So that, at the end of the day, I think if you can find, here's the other thing I want to say. The knowledge and the trust he has in his teammates to not be physical for no reason. I put a couple videos in here of this. And I mentioned this to meet you because we talk about like potential landing spots.

Like you think about the kind of center he plays well with or, what line he fits in with he you don't see him in unnecessarily engage in physical behavior along the wall so even though he's making a living in this home play area they're grinding they're cycling all these long shifts uh he peels off a lot and what i mean by that is he's he's approaching a play that is there's players engaged in a wall battle right uh and as he's approaching and I think he often makes the correct assessment on what to do next. And more often than not, you'll see him peel off and make himself available for the end result of that wall battle. Positioning for a breakout, knowing where that loose puck's going to squirt, you know, adequately reading those plays and not coming in and just making a hit to make a hit and inflating that number in your stat column.

There's a lot of peeling off and saying, no, I want the puck, I want the entry. we look at how much he's bringing it across the blue line for the sharks and what his entry rate with possession is among obviously discounting Carlson who's living on a planet that's non-human. The reason he's got these numbers is because of that availability and that peel off to say like I'm not, you know, I love that. I just think that, you know, I love watching a player say, you know, and again, not saying not being physical is important. But there's so many hits in the league that are just hits to for the sake of. hitting, right? We call them finishing checks, but they're not impactful in the game at all. And here we have a player saying, no, you take finishing the check. I just want to be in the right position. I trust my teammates are going to win this wall battle. I know I want to get the puck

and score afterwards. So I'm just going to focus on that. I prefer that, I think, in a lot of cases to the unnecessary physicality. Certainly. Yeah, the unnecessary stuff, just ultimately, it does the other team a favor because you're just taking yourself out of the player or becoming a one less concern for them, right? It's like, all of a sudden, this guy is just like engaged in this for no reason whatsoever. We don't have to worry about him. It's like, all right, he's over there by himself. You know, the versatility for Myers game, I think, is a really important point of this

and something that I keep thinking about where sport logic has him at fourth in the league in rush chances, but also 15th in the league and chances off the cycle. And that rush chance that in particular is amazing. You mentioned, like, how often he's the one doing the carrying. I think Corey Schneider in his tracking has the sharks at like 30th in the league in generating shots off the rush. And so for him to outshine that environment to that degree and like individually be as good as he's been is interesting to me. And I think also, you know, the fact that you can put, I think he can really thrive in almost any situation. I didn't mean it to sound as like a negative thing where like he's in a situation right now where he can just sort of not stat pad, but just, you know, accumulate numbers the way he has.

I think wherever he goes, he's going to do good because if you want to play fast, he can play with pace, right? Move up the ice quickly. He makes himself available, as you said, he's not, he's constantly peeling off. But also, if you want to slow the game down, cycle it around, kind of create more of that below the hash marks type of offense, which we see more of in the playoffs when all of a sudden you can't just rush up and up and down the ice freely as much as he did in the regular season, he can do that really well too.

And so if you put him next to a distributor and a playmaker, he's not going to get wherever he goes, that team probably will not have an Air Carlson level distributor from the blue line. But if he goes to a team like the Devils, let's say, and he's playing with Jack Hughes, all of a sudden, that's a very interesting partnership for me in terms of being able to beat you in so many ways based off of their two individual skill sets.

Yeah, 100%. And if you look at like around the league and who his comparables are, and this is obviously through the games that Corey I'm going off Corey's data here but like his shot assists per 60 are just as you talk about volume he's setting people up Demetri just as much as he is taking the shots so you know you're getting that with this too

is his ability you know that dichotomy you talked about like he's he's so good at rush chances and simultaneously so good at chances off the cycle I think you still get that with shots and shot assists for him too it's not just one or the other I think he's he really is a two-tool player in that in that sense, if you will, is he's not just taking all these passes, and he's proven that he's adept and capable

at setting them all up as well. And we have to talk to you about just his raw number of zone chances or zone entries as well. It's through the roof. I mean, he's, you know, I think Noah Greger has an insane amount for the sharks. And I think maybe a little bit less ice time. and that skewed some of the data.

I think if you filter down to the minutes, there's just no forward on the sharks that's taking the puck across the blue line more than him and really only a handful of forwards in the league too. So, you know, the distribution and utility you get out of him is extremely high beyond just what he provides in that home plate area as well. Yeah, I mean, the malleability,

whether it's who he's going to play with, what team it's going to be on, or, you know, projecting to the playoffs, what the situation is going to call for in terms of, all right, you're playing against a Carolina, and then maybe you're playing against the Tampa Bay, or you're playing against Boston or Toronto, right?

Like all these teams have different relative strengths and weaknesses, especially defensively, and the fact that you can use him in a way that he can sort of identify and then target and really press his thumb down on those weaknesses is huge. And so mentioning about, like, the postseason and how fans are going to feel about watching him play in those games, we haven't seen him play a playoff game since 2018, 19, right? And he's pretty clearly a different player since then. He was really good in that post he's had run too, by the way. But I think

another thing that stands out on the tape when you watch him is, speaking of the rush opportunities and how much he's carrying the puck, his ability to fight through contact and still get his shot off is going to be huge. And it's unfortunate that this is something that needs to be said because you'd like to think that, all right, the game is just going to be called the same way in the playoffs, and it won't be as big of a deal. But we know that there's much more obstruction, you get away with a lot more, you get certainly more bang for your buck. And teams will take liberties. They will try to slow you down by any means necessary. And his ability to absorb all of that. And sometimes he even gets like knocked down, but he keeps

possession of the puck or keeps it in his vicinity and then gets back up and still extends the play and keeps going. Dangling on his knees or something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He had that goal against the ducks where he got knocked down, still kept the puck, then got back up and wound up scoring. The fact that he can do that, like, you can use him against any defender, and he'll still find a way to create offense. And that's huge because, unfortunately, not every offensive player is built that way, right? Like, he has certain physical skills and tendencies that are going to allow him to succeed regardless of the setting. And I think we combine that, that facet of his game, that toughness and ability to stay upright

with the speed at which he can operate. And again, I have to go back to what I said earlier, not one of the fastest forwards in the league, but his ability to get to his top speed is so quick that it really creates problems. And you see these clips, Dmitra, he's giving defensemen hiccups, right? Like he comes at you so quickly that these guys are coughing up,

coughing up pucks, turning it over, misplaying it. He's like a freight train. And it's very north-south. I think it's the other thing that I love is it's direct hockey. It's right in your face. and to your point, you can maintain possession in a number of compromised positions,

which enables him to, we keep going back to these discussions about like elongating these shifts and how is it possible for someone to, you know, be, you know, both a volume shooter and volume assist, shot assist guy at the same time. These are the plays that make that, you know, possible and extend those possessions. So, I mean, it's, you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, feel like, you know, there's a possibility that depending on where he ends up, like, this really does become much more of a household name in the NHL than it is right now. And that's not a slight to San Jose, right?

But look, they're not great, right? Like, we're talking about a forward that metricly is better than 99% of the other forwards in the National Hockey League. So that, you know, I just feel like there's an opportunity for him to land somewhere that really puts that spotlight on him and makes this a little bit more of a common knowledge. because this really is a hidden gem. I said it in the article. We use the tool five tool player in baseball, Dimitri,

but we talk from the ability of, you think about what, what are some ways you can't deploy Tim O. Meyer, the list is pretty short. Well, and don't you think that that different ways you can beat you, that versatility,

the maliability is going to make him, is going to make him such a fan favorite to your point of like his star growing and the name recognition, and the way you can build around him, there's a little bit of something for everyone in there, right? Like, he's got the skill and the speed, if that's your thing.

He's also got that north-south, like, no funny business. Let's get the park to the net. Let's be, like, that traditional power forward that your boomer uncle is also going to like. Like, there's no, like, you're not going to get any market he goes to. You're not really going to get a situation where it's like, oh, man, like, this guy is very divisive.

Like, he's going to be loved and sell. And especially if he's playing big postseason games next to other star players. Like you're right. I think he's got real potential to it seems silly to break out because I think most people that are following the NHL certainly listening to this podcast are probably aware of Tim O'Meier and what he brings to the table. But I think there's room to grow in terms of like, wow, all right, this guy is a household name in hockey circles.

Yeah, as a brand, right? Yeah. Like there's that branding that has yet to occur from like those big postseason modes. And you see, I'm looking forward to that because like you said, it's such a long time ago, right? totally different player now. I think he's much more sure-footed than he was then. He's bigger. And I think refinement and understanding the game, you look at it over time. I mean, the proof is in the pudding, right? All of these metrics we've been talking about, you know, whether you look at it from a war perspective or just an overall ability to finish

perspective, you know, from 2019 to today, there's just been a market improvement in it. So, you know, I think regardless of, you know, whether or not he's able to get a long-term deal from where he ends up or not, you know, the case will be made, I think, for his name to, you know, like you said, be a little bit more available to the folks that are outside of the PTO cast. Yes, certainly. All right, Jesse, let's take our break here while we still can. then when we come back, we'll kind of close to the conversation on Meyer and some of the other things to consider moving forward and kind of maybe project where we'd like to see him go, what that's going to look like

in the postseason, what the feature this holds for him. So looking forward to all that. We'll be back in a second here. You're listening to the HockeyPedio on the Sportsnet Radio Network. The most comprehensive Canucks coverage in the city. Canucks Central with Dan Retio and Satyar Shah. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify,

or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back on the Hock-a-Pedio-Cast here with Jesse Marshall, doing our film club study on Tim O'Meyer. Let's spin it forward now. Let's think about we've kind of been tiptoeing around, like, where we'd like to see, what situation we'd like to be in, the type of playing environment, what I think, or what you think could optimize his skills

or really put him in a position to succeed. He is so most. multidimensional in that regard. Do you, are you with me that the devils are the most interesting fit stylistically in terms of potentially unlocking even more there offensively from him in terms of the creativity, the speed, the multiple ways they can beat you? Or do you have another fit that you think is more intriguing for him personally? No, it's the, it's the devils.

I wrote this article, Dimitri from McKean's way back weeks into the season with like John Marino was, you know, an early season, Norse Canada. it about how good New Jersey is. And I think so good that I think it's beyond just being good at it. It's a focal point for their team. Like they're studying this in film, working from behind the goal line, which every team, the national hockey league should be doing. You're crazy if you're not.

The devils are killing it at working the puck from behind the goal line and sort of triangulating their forwards in this little triangle of doom, right? and really having a good cycle off that. And if you think all the stuff we just talked about with Timo Meyer, man, would he fit in so well with that offensive scheme? Not only the fact that they've activated their D all year long, they've encouraged that they've got to make up for it all throughout their lineup. So we talk about like, you know, they're lacking in Eric Carlson, but you know, you'll take Dougie Hamilton, right? Um, the behind the net focus, um, you know, you think about, you know, maybe him on a line with Jack Hughes and what that would look like.

Yeah. Um, you know, it's, it's probably the best possible, um, uh, landing position for him. Not only I think in style of play, but, um, personnel, you know, the use that that San Jose gets out of them now in the way that they use them. It's very, I think there's a mirror there in New Jersey for him to kind of settle in and have a little bit of a similar environment potentially. Yeah, the idea of him playing with Jack Hughes and those guys riffing off each other and just replacing like Eric Holla's minutes with Timo Meyer is just is outrageous. And the reason why I keep bringing up on the show every week is I'm just so obituated by the potential of it, right? You look at stylistically, Meyer is amongst the league leaders and shots from the slot,

as we've talked about for the first half of the show. He gets to those dangerous areas with such consistency, keeps moving, finds ways to make himself available. And Jack Hughes is like third or fourth in the league at passes into the slot and has really, he's scoring a lot of goals now and it's almost out of necessity because he's in these situations where he's like, all right, well, I'm the best player on the ice. I'm just going to take the puck and score myself. I still think at the root of it, though, he's, at his best when he's slicing and dicing, making place for others, and I think he wants to do

that. And unfortunately, they just haven't been bearing enough of the opportunities that he's provided, and all of a sudden, you put Meyer in those situations instead. And I feel like they could just, they could go nuclear offensively without, without sacrificing much defensively, as you noted in the defensive zone with the ability to break the puck out, keep him moving in the right direction, Hughes himself, I think, just based like an activity level and perspective has made himself a perfectly fine defensive player. And so it would be almost a flawless combination for me. Like I really, I can't see any roadblock or potential reason for like why the devil shouldn't

be seriously exploring it and why they shouldn't be the team to ultimately pull the trigger on this episode of deal. Honorable mention to Tage Thompson, Tim O'Mire, that that would be not as fun, but there's a potential for some magic there with Alex Tuck and that would be fun too. But now you're right. And the devils should move heaven and earth to do it because they are, I mean, look at that. That team's good. And this is, you know, again, reiterating a player for the sharks who's putting them numbers better than 99% of the forwards in the National Hockey League.

You know the impact area that he has in front of the net. You know that you have, like you said, a skilled center who is available to dish those pucks in there. And again, if you're going to work from behind the goal line, you have to have someone to, who excels in that area. And you're, I mean, look, you're just not going to get anybody better.

I just don't think there's anybody doing it better than him. I, you know, I know the Rangers are in there too, right? Like I think they'll, they're probably the devil's probably stiffest competition.

You know, Buffalo's names come up. But I just don't think stylistically, there's really that, that fit, right? That's what really is missing is the stylistic fit. That is what New Jersey has over the other teams,

I think, in Spades. I put the least, put the Leafs in there as well. Yeah. Because they desperately need another scoring left winger and also they play a bit slow for my liking sometimes and having another puck transporter like him who can do the heavy lifting in that regard would be incredibly interesting, especially if you're like pairing them up with, I mean, you could do, you could get creative with any sort

of combinations, right, but like having him literally with Mitch Martin or having them with John Tavares having him. Like you can't go wrong in terms of just offensive skill sets meshing together. I put the hurricanes in there as well because we know that they love to shoot from distance and then pack the paint and kind of create looks in that way. And his skill set, I think, fits well with that and they need more offensive dynamism in his game. That's aware of more dynamic qualities.

And he would certainly provide that. I think they'd probably prefer a center. But now with Max Patchretti out, I think it's certainly the door has been open for them to really get aggressive and creative in terms of trying to find a scoring wing. I just wonder whether for them, like, they would want to pick up the tab on what his next contract looks like, as opposed to some of these other teams where they could, like a team like the devils, the reason why they are so appealing is because he turns 27 in October. So you get him for the rest of this year.

They're already a good team. They're already a cup contender. And then you get him to kind of not grow with Jack Hughes, but basically be there for the rest of his prime and have another four or five immensely productive season. together. I think that kind of is what pushes the devils over the top, but purely for this season. I mean, pretty much every contender out east it seems like could desperately use this guy. Yeah.

When it comes to that Carolina style to me, like you think about how often, like living with like four to four checkers is their way of life. Right. Like that's just the way you live in Carolina as you turn the heat up as high as it'll go and, you know, get after it. that's that that's that's that's perfect for him a lot of his most so this is through the games that Corey has tracked already right for the all three zones project but one of his most comparable players in terms of his zone entries and his rates with carrying the puck and specifically having possession of the puck is Andre Svetnikov so I don't think he'd be out of the realm of possibility he could play in that system because he's already putting up similar numbers to

right you know one of their better players in terms of his breakout ability Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I'm really curious to see what the market is like ultimately for him because I agree with you. I think he's the best player of flat out that's available or realistically available at this year's market. You know, I'm typically against, you know, looking ahead. Does that include Bo Horvatt, Dimitri? Did you make that statement like you would have said that even if Beau Horvett hadn't been traded? I think so because I think he's more useful in more ways.

I know he doesn't play the premium position that Horvatt does. and I'm higher on Horbat than people seem to be because I don't think it's purely some sort of random contract year shooting percentage bump. Like he's clearly refined his game to be elite at what he does. I just think Meyer does a lot of that while also being much more of a natural puck carrier, much more of a threat to beat you with pace moving down the wing. Whereas Horbat, Horbat's going to love it for the Islanders because not only do they need

the power play help, but it's much more of a methodical game, even under Lambert, where they're attacking with more sort of aggression and risk in their game, it's still much more methodical and slow-paced, whereas if he goes to a team like Devils or Carolina, he can really just slot into that, just up-tempo, never stop moving and be perfectly fine. So I prefer him to that. But what I was going to say was, I'm generally very wary of committing significant capital to wingers. We're seeing the market has totally dried up for them. Do you agree that he's sort of a unique exception because you can almost,

plug him into any spot and also not be limited by like a one dimensional presence to his game right like you you can move him up and down the lineup you can play him with different combinations of players depend regardless of the opponent regardless of the playoff series and he's going to do great and so that's the type of player where I feel comfortable committing eight to nine million dollars per year moving forward for the rest of his

prime seasons because he is a legitimate needle mover whereas some of these other wingers are like much more replaceable you're getting you're paying for the utility you get 100% yeah that's that's in deployability um not only in minutes um but you know you could play either side of the ice you could you know you could get creative with how you use him like you said and you think about all the things we've talked about uh i agree you know you think about a slower style of play maybe like Toronto versus a you know a heavy forechecking style like a Carolina we haven't really found one that he doesn't fit yet and i with some wingers i don't know that you

could say that right um there's certain fits that are bad. There are certain things that aren't going to work. And, you know, this is the ability here to, you know, like I said, with that utility, have options available to you and have a presence that's consistently threatening in the offensive zone in multiple ways. Yeah. Like I said, I'm curious about the market, even for the trade deadline purposes, because I think if the sharks are smart, they're going to play this all the way until the deadline and leverage these teams against each other, right? Because the devil's, the Leafs, the hurricanes, the Rangers, the Sabres for a long term perspective, all these teams should be very, very interested in this.

And so once you get that situation going, all of a sudden, it's not going to be like the Bullhorn situation where, you know, the Canucks dealing with Lou, we're scared to scare him off essentially or offend him by shopping that offer elsewhere. So they got offered that and they're like, all right, we're going to take it because we like the futures. In this case, I think the sharks should be like, well, the devil's just offered us. Alexander Holtz I and Igor Sharon Govich's RFA writes, what can you do to match that, especially as the Rangers,

to prevent one of your geographical end division rivals from getting a player of this caliber. So it'll be really fascinating to see whether they're able to parlay that into more than I think people are initially expecting them to get on the trade market. That's the reason why I think this might be the one deal that we actually do get to see discussed on television the day of the trade deadline that actually like takes up some time and gives people the ability to sink into something. You know, that you're right.

And it'd be crazy for San Jose to not try to extract every last morsel that they could get out of this thing. Getting something like a Boer, that like return on this would be just a disaster, you know, given, you know, given I think one,

that this is a player that you, you're not like these big teams are likely not going to have to, like, move heaven and earth to bring in from a cap perspective, right? Um, you're not going to, you know, um, that, that's not, it's not ruling teams out, right. Um, that that's, that's huge. And especially because this environment is such that you almost have people like frozen from making trades because of their cap situation, uh, that I, I, 100% with you. And I think this one might actually come down to the day of, um, we get a decent, a decent little thing to discuss here in the middle of the afternoon on trade deadline day. That'd be nice. Well, it gives us also another month of just talking about.

Speculating. Yeah, of course. Who doesn't love that? Was there anything else here on Meyer, the player, the market, the situation, anything you want to get into while we're here? We still got about, like, I don't know, eight to ten minutes or so. And I honestly, like, there's so many other factors probably to consider about this player is such a unique asset and such a, such a game-changing type of winger that we rarely see.

Do you have anything else on them that really kind of either stuck out to you while you're watching the tape on him or interests you about him moving forward no i think we've covered it all um like i said i think at the end of the day um if if you're struggling if you're looking at your team and you're saying like we're not good enough in in front of the net whether that be on the power play um or at even strength and you're not getting scoring chances from those areas in tight you're crazy if you're not on the phone for this one i mean it just you know again you know The difference between Tim O' Meyer and everyone else in the league, again, is the dedication and the second nature approach that you get to this stuff.

And if you just turn on a Sharks game and you watch 28 when he comes out on the ice, you can almost, you know, it makes him sound like he's not a creative player when you say it like this to me, but you know where he's going to go, right? Like that's what's so crazy that teams are having such a hard time defending him. He's located in the same place every shift. Finding him, marking him, moving him, and doing something about it is a completely different story. And a lot of the traditional stuff that you see work where guys get to stick up under the arms and like, you know, just wrench it up, you know, the annoying things that people have to deal with. Just, he's a tree trunk.

It's just, you don't, you know, it doesn't phase him. You know, it just moves out of the, you know, you lose them. And his entry point to the area of attack is. always maybe a little longer sometimes, but it's a way that loses you along the way, right? So if you're not like, you know, throwing down a trail breadcrumbs, Hansel and Gretto style,

you're in trouble because you're going to be going on a journey or two trying to mark them. And there's been good defensemen all year long, Demetri, that have tried and looked away for a second and put their head back and where is he? And that's the nature of the kind of player he is. So, yeah, excited to see what the potential holds, like I said, as far as those playoff performances go, I think it's going to be going to be a fun year for that.

For him, especially and sort of like a little bit of a blossoming nationally party, if you will. Okay, well, here's a question that for you, just that this conversation got me thinking about. Do you think he not, like, organically or like intrinsically possesses like that highest level of creativity in his game to truly play off of, like, let's say if the devil's or the team to get him, right? And they're in a high leverage situation where they're like, all right, we're going to try to put our best players on the ice and create a goal, maybe late in the game or they, there's trailing.

And they load up Hughes, Meyer and Jasper Brat together. Like, I've seen Brat and Hughes, for example, can think the game at such a high level where they're just like, it's almost like they're like one person kind of playing off each other in that way. Meyer's much more like no frills,

brute force, as you said, like north-south. he's got certainly abundance of skill and I've seen him make high level creative plays, but it's also not like something he necessarily leans on as his primary source of attack. Do you think that he could not only fit in but thrive in a situation like that? Or do you think he's better used in a way where you just kind of keep his route tree, so to speak, simple and just get him to sort of try to do one thing and do it remarkably well?

I say yes, though. I don't think you keep him limited. Let me throw this at you. Like there was a situation against the ducks. I think it was the most recent game against the ducks that the sharks had where he is a long cycle in the offensive zone. He hurdle a bonker out there, you're doing their thing. And he's in a compromise situation, right? He's pinned.

He's got the puck on the wall, puck on the wall, back to the play. Side, you know, sort of like he's not going to get boarded, right? But there's two duck four checkers pressing down on him sort of in the flow of. the play and you're kind of expecting him to try to peel off or do something about the pressure, right? And his answer to the question, Dimitra, was to not do anything. It was almost as if he knew he was going to get buzzed by these ducks, right? They weren't going to engage with him.

The cycle had been going on for so long that these guys were tired, not super engaged and just looking at like getting this thing deep and getting off, right? So I think like with that knowledge pinned in this. compromised position instead of trying to roll off pressure move into you know he just didn't do anything he sat on the wall got buzzed by both these four checkers and turns around and makes a high danger pass just like you know like that that is a moment of inaction where the inaction speaks louder than anything else that he could have done you know just the the the knowledge of the situation who he was out against how long he'd been out there and and almost the correct

of I'm not going to get hit. These guys aren't going to, they're looking to just get the puck deep and get out. Like I see this stuff individually and how he attacks individual defensemen all the time, using the bank off boards to step around guys, right, that have a better positioning on him. Area plays with the puck.

Those are the things I think make me say yes to your question because those are the skills that you need to be able to execute a quick one-touch pass with Jack Hughes or that, you know, those, that innate sense is there for it. I don't know that we've seen it a ton, you know, in San Jose with the crash and bang style that line sort of plays. But I think he has the ability to fit in with that and to be able to make those kind of, you know, intrinsically smart chemistry like plays, if you will, that you see the devils do a lot of.

Well, initially when you brought that up, I was going to be like, because you're like, oh, remember that game against the ducks? And I was going to say, I think we should eliminate all. references to anything anyone does against the ducks this season in terms of like a learning experience because it's it's very it's almost unlike any other sort of you can't really it's not simulating an NHL level of of play but you're right like see that that under pressure that processing speed or like understanding of kind of what he needs to do or whatnot what he needs to not do is huge and I think that'll that'll serve him well if he does go to a team like the devils all right Jesse

this was a blast man i i really enjoyed this hopefully the listeners got to know timel mire's game and the intricacies of it a little bit better and uh that's all we're trying to accomplish here with the film club so i'll let you on the way out promote some stuff let people know where they can check out that article that you referenced and um and maybe give us a little sneak sneak peek in terms of what you're thinking of working on next i'm always curious to uh to figure out who's going to get the deep dive treatment from you. Yeah. So that article was on McKeon's.

McKeon-Tockey, I'm writing there a feature focus on a player or like a systems element every other week changing off of Corey, who does the All Three Zones Project. We referenced 9,000 times today. So he's always bringing it. And then really coming up is when we talk about how bad the payments are getting into, we're going to talk about Brian Dumlin. It's depressing. And as a guy that you and I have really gushed about a lot.

over the years is sort of like being the perfect modern day NHL product. And unfortunately, it's been, father time comes for us all. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay.

Well, maybe next time we have you on, we can talk more about the penguins because I've certainly got some thoughts and they're headed towards an interesting couple weeks here. All right, man, this is a blast. I'm glad we got to do this.

For the listeners, my only plug is, is go leave a rating interview for the PDOCs wherever you listen. Smash that five-star button. And we'll be back tomorrow with a, another episode here. So until then, thank you for listening to the Hockey P.D.O cast streaming on the Sportsnet Radio network.