The Hockey PDOcast - Detroit’s Good Vibes, New Jersey’s Bad Vibes, and Teams to Watch

Episode Date: February 26, 2024

Dimitri Filipovic is joined by Emily Kaplan to talk about the good vibes in Detroit, the bad vibes in New Jersey, and the teams to keep an eye on ahead of this year's trade deadline.This podcast is produced by Dominic Sramaty. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dmitra Filippovich. And joining us today is the great Emily Kaplan. Emily, what's going on? It is my honor to be on the great PDOCast. So thank you for having me. Oh, you're too much.

Listen, it's a treat considering your busy schedule on the road to get you on during some downtime while you're back home. And so this is exciting. The plan for today's programming, we're going to talk. about some of the teams you've gone to see up close recently during the ESPN broadcast and that you chatted with. And also, I think we're going to talk about some trade deadline chatter or about 10 days away, right? I think there's a lot on the move and in the works, but nothing really being formalized yet. But I kind of want to provide a better sense for people listening of where teams stand ahead of the March 8 deadline. And I think we're going to kind of be able to tie that

all together with some interesting teams of note. And I want to start with the Red Wings because they are 15-4 and 2 since the new year, which is second-th century. the league in point percentage behind just the Panthers in that time. They're on this five-game winning street currently coming off quite a weekend where they first throttled the Blues, right, on Saturday in a matinee game. I think they scored three goals on them before the Blues were even able to muster a shot on goal. And then they capped it with Patrick Kane's breakaway overtime winner in his return to Chicago,

which provided quite the scene and spectacle. And so this is an exciting team, right? It's a team that certainly, I think, came into the season with some level of heightened expectations based on the past couple years because of all of their free agent signings and how they've clearly been working towards a point of going from rebuilding team to finally being a playoff contender, but finally seeing them string together games and wins like this in an exciting fashion is an entirely different story and that's exactly what they're doing right now. I love the Red Wings.

I just want to say it. I love the city of Detroit and I want the city of Detroit to get past this playoff hump and I think they're really close. I had the Red Wings that are a season opener. in New Jersey. And I just remember remarking how fast they look and how they just felt like they were coming with all of these different fronts and just how much dynamic energy that the team had. And I think this has been a slow build for fans in Detroit and they've wanted to see it accelerate. And Steve Eisenman probably has the most job security of any general manager because of who he is.

And so he hasn't been able to, he hasn't publicly put a timeline on this rebuild for all I know privately he hasn't either. But I know in talking. to Derek Lolo and their coach that last year, there was just a gut punch to the players around this time when they still technically were in the mix. And then they traded away a lot of their players, including Tyler Bertuzi, who was super popular,

part of what we believe to be that core alongside Dylan Larkin and Anthony Manta. Oh, how times have gone. And this year, it just feels like that's not the case anymore. And all of the effort now is building on this first strong half to go make to the playoffs. And one other conversation I had that I think was pretty illuminating is we were just in Tampa talking to John

Cooper. And he was just saying how he felt like, you know, three teams, Detroit and Buffalo and Ottawa, they were all in the cusp and everyone was wondering. And ever kind of put Detroit third in that group that everyone thought Ottawa and Buffalo might have been ahead. But I think it's clarified that Detroit's ahead and goes, and you look at us. And everyone views us as the veteran team, right? We're the teams that won the Cup. But look at us from two years ago to now. We only have eight of those remaining players. And we're trying to incorporate in a bunch of kids and depth players and just trying to fill that gap. And he's like, I look at Detroit. And they've just added NHL players.

Like if you look at their blue line, it's Ben Chirot, and you've got David Perron and Patrick Kane and Alex DeBringkin. He just said, like, I feel like their way ahead of us, which I find fascinating. Well, I tweeted this last night, but I just wanted to repeat it here for the sake of posterity. I think my favorite personal part of this Red Wing season that's unfolding is getting to hear Ken Daniels do the call for these big moments and getting fired up. We've seen in the past couple overtime winners, right, where he's providing this perfect soundtrack. for this team winning these thrillers. And it's been so long now, right? It's been, what, seven years really since this team got to play competitive games and

compete for a playoff spot. And just hearing him and Mickey Redmond get to call these games is really fun, right? Because I think they, even for someone who's not a fan of the team, they kind of provide this comfort and this sort of like this chemistry they've been doing it together for so long, but also an appreciation for the other teams, right? I think one of my biggest sort of pet peeves watching Logo broadcast and I get the generally they're like employees of the team. and so it's their job to focus on their own players and to hype them up and kind of view it through that lens.

But it always bugs me when they act like anything good the other team does was kind of like a nuisance or a fluke. And they're like, oh, I can't believe they just did that. It's like, that guy's really good. He does this all the time. Maybe you should pay attention to the other teams. And on that Red Werdin's local broadcast, they really, they call it fair from the perspective. They're clearly sort of pushing for the Red Wings to do well. But when you watch them against the abs and Nathan McKinnon and Miko Ranton in Combined for a cool goal,

you can tell that they're like hockey fans first and foremost and they're appreciating that and I just think that's really cool. No, for sure. There's a catharsis, I think, of just bringing up that nostalgia factor from these voices of our childhood. But called Hockey Town for a reason. Every time I'm in Detroit, there's just an appreciation for the game and the history. And that's really one of the main reasons why Patrick Kane signed there.

Like we always talk about him as a hockey nerd. And he had a respect for the history for all the names that came before him for the fact that it's a cold weather city, an original sick. team where he can wear his two walking to the rink. And this, I don't know if we can say enough things about the way Patrick Kane looks right now because there are so many questions of what's he going to look like from the super surfacing. We know it didn't quite work out for Nicholas Backstrom. He's a point per game player. He's bringing us those showtime moments again. And he always had that belief in himself that he was still that elite player. He just had to figure out what was

ailing him these last couple years. And he knew. But he did a drastic measure and it's paying off. And it's one of the best gambles I think we've seen this season. Well, the Red Wings are four points now behind the Leafs with one extra game played for third in the Atlantic. They're one point up on the lightning team you reference with two games in hand on them. Dom's model at the athletic has them up to 72% playoff probability. And there's been a lot of discussion online about how like this is the team that's sort of overperforming their underlying metrics to the greatest degree this year, right? You look at five on five in particular and it's not a very glowing review in terms of shots, chances, expected goals and all of that. But I do think there's a couple things worth noting

here. One is the special teams has been terrific and in particular the power play which is top 10 and especially we had full health now. You see it makes a lot of sense. And they also, I think, draw, they have the best penalty differential in the league, but I also draw penalties like the third highest rate. So that's sort of feeding into that. But you mentioned came there and obviously he's added a dynamic to this team. But I think what really helps and is sort of going under the radar a little bit is Lucas Raymond has really come into his own and bounce back in a big way. And since the new year, his ability to sort of drive this second line with J.T. Comfer and win those minutes is now allowing Derek Lone to load up Cain with the Brinket and Larkin. And they're

obviously thriving offensively on the top line playing together. And if Raymond wasn't playing as well as he was, if a lot of those concerns or maybe last year were lingering, I don't think the coaching staff would feel as comfortable just putting all three of those players on one line. And then it'd be a different story. Right. So I kind of wanted to know Raymond because he's on pace for 22 goals, nearly 70 points, and that's really good. But he's also, I believe, the league leader in penalties drawn, which ties into that stat I gave you earlier. And he's really been a big part of this.

And I wanted to shout him out because when you list the things that are going right for the Red Wings, I think there's a few other topics that are going to come up ahead because there's sort of bigger names and catchier headlines. But his play is a big reason why this is happening. I love that you pointed about because he's a player that's fascinated me for a couple years. He's competitive as hell. If you just watch him, he wants to win and it just shows up in the way he plays. He changed some of his training habits over the summer, changed his body composition. I think that's why you're seeing some of the success you're having. But when you talked about them overperforming expectations

and their underlying numbers, one of the biggest reasons I don't have the stats in front of me is I just feel like they push so many games to get that extra point just to get to overtime and then they've had a lot of overtime success. And it's not a quantifiable thing. It's just that competitive Brit. This is the team. with an identity. And I think that's why they've climbed up in the standings have just been clawing away, getting those points, collecting them, and not leaving points on the table. Well, and a lot of those names you referenced earlier in terms of, like, bringing in actual reliable NHLers and players who have performed previously at other stops,

they've got this depth now where they have 12 guys with 10 plus goals, I believe, this season. And this entire story and just talking through it makes me think a little bit of last year Seattle Cracken team, right? where it was a team that was sort of came a bit under the radar, won a lot of games like this where they're opportunistic, they sort of have a lot of one-shot scores, a lot of depth, and they have this great home crowd as well,

where once they get at these competitive games and they give them a reason to cheer, it feels like that gives them a bit of an extra push as well. And so I'm not confident this is going to continue by any means. I'm not trying to act like this Red Wings team as a Stanley Cup contender, but I do think there's some interesting things happening beneath the surface. And the reason why I wanted to start the show with all of this is because I feel like in every discussion about the trade deadline and sort of previewing, okay, these are the big names available,

which teams are natural fits. The Red Wings are lurking a little bit here. I know that you talked about them in your piece recently up on ESPN, but it feels like for whatever reason, maybe it's because they aren't really viewed as one of those bona fide elite Stanley Cup contenders. They're not really being a team linked to a lot of these players. But I think we've seen the past couple seasons that Steve Iserman, for better or for is going to be very deliberate and direct with what he does, right? In the past two off seasons,

they've aggressively spent money to bring in the players we've mentioned. Last year at this time, he acknowledged that his team wasn't going to compete and quickly pivoted and became an aggressive seller, right, and recouped a lot of future assets. And so now that they're finally hovering around this playoff bubble and it's been so long since they've given this fan base a reason to cheer and care about games into March and April, I do keep coming back to them and thinking, with the combination of cap space and draft capital they have and the need to add another sort of impact player regardless of who it is,

I think they should be in that tier of teams or whether it's Jake Gensel or whatever other big name is available, that we should be thinking about them more than maybe we are. Yeah, the reason you don't hear them link to other players or linked to teams is because Steve Haserman is the most secretive general manager in the league. Right. I, you know, two years ago at the draft, I asked him, where are you in the rebuild? And he gave me this, like, super-poise answer, which basically is I like, I don't know.

And then last year I asked you this question last year, I'm going to ask you again. And he had the professional respect to say, I know I didn't give you a great answer last year. I'm going to try to do better this year. It still wasn't a great answer, but that's just kind of who he is. But you just get the sense of talking to other teams in interacting with Steve Eiserman and just the way that they're playing on the ice, that he's starting to believe in this group. And I do believe he knows it's important for this market just to create that momentum for these young players, like the Lucas Raymond, like the Mo Cider, to get that playoff experience, just get in and see what it's like. And they have the foundations to do it sustainably.

And I just mentioned Mo Cider. I just don't think he gets enough credit. I think last year maybe we started to recognize what a stud he is on the ice, but the amount of minutes he shoulders, the fact that they found Jake Wallman, a really good partner to push him along. You know, I mentioned those veteran D. they've got back there, Jeff Petrie, Ben Chirot. Olimata, like these guys know how it's done, but Jake Wallman and Mo Sider, maybe one of the most dynamic and interesting young pairings in the league. And I just love watching them play. Well, and what's interesting is not only they have a lot of cap room to add, which other

teams might not, but it's also this last year of both Sider and Raymond being on their ELCs, right? And we know what a competitive advantage that is. And then all of a sudden, they'll obviously have room to accommodate it. But once you start paying these players going from like under one million each to all of a sudden getting into that like 7, 8, 9 range for those two guys, all of a sudden, that restricts you in terms of your ability to go out and just add as aggressively as they have, right? So that's kind of a motivation. And then they've got a ton of assets. Like, I think they've made 19 picks in the top

two rounds in the past five drafts. They've got a guy like Jonathan Berger, and who I know has been on a lot of sort of trade speculation, just overpointed game again in the HAL and he's clearly too good to be there. But they have so much depth on their NHL roster and everyone's producing that it's tough to find a spot for him. So I think they're a team that makes a lot of sense to sort of moderately aggressively consolidate some of this stuff and try to reward the group for this season without necessarily going all in and then and not worrying about the future. I think there's going to be a long-term view of this. But I'm interested to watch them. I think they're lurking. Any other Red Wings notes or do you want to move on to my next team? No, I think you're right.

And just one last note on them, I'd say, is just the way Steve Eiserman has built this team, he's been really cautious about giving long-term deals. He had to, I think he lost the negotiations with Del Marcon, I'll say it. He didn't want to go that long with a player of his age, but he was the captain. He was the heartbeat. He had to do it. But other than that, he's been really shy about giving away those long-term deals because I think he just wants to view this piecemeal, piece-meal, piece-meal.

And in this iteration, they're really good, but he's also not tied to really bad contracts of the future. So I do think that they are, have the foundations to be sustainably good for maybe hopefully as long as their run was last time. Yeah. Okay. Well, I don't know. That was a very long run. I don't think that's a reasonable expectation, but I think they would take any sort of meaningful hockey at this point. Okay, let's go from a team with some of the best vibes in the league right now to some with unfortunately some of the worst. And that's the New Jersey Devils. And listen, I've sort of, I've changed my tone a lot over the years, right? When I started, I was very sort of like gung-ho. Anytime I wouldn't like what a coach did in terms of player usage or not using the players that I thought they should the most, I'd be like, oh, we need to get rid of this guy. Let's change the coach, right? I was very sort of quick trigger in that regard.

And I've changed my rhetoric on that over the years because I think I've gained an appreciation for everything that goes on behind the scenes, right, the dynamics of why organizations value stability of the coaching position and having someone that they trust, particularly when they have young players to sort of shepherd them and show them the ropes and be a face of the franchise. At the same time, though, the reason why I say all that is I think we're getting to the this point with the devils, if we're not already there, where they need to do something if they're going to salvage this season, right? Because obviously they've had a lot of injuries. Things haven't

gone the way they wanted after the amazing season they had last year. And they're a team that's obviously been brought up in a lot of trade discussions, but I think there's enough sort of quibbles that I have with stuff they've done with their players and the way they've played this season, that I wonder if the first logical domino before any of that is just changing the head coach. then figuring it out. And the reason why I frame it that way is because I'm curious for your take on what the motivation is for them this season to really try and aggressively salvage the season versus sort of taking a step back and taking a long curve view and saying, listen, we'd love to make the playoffs. But if we don't, it's not a disaster because our core is in place and they're

still young enough that it's not really do or die this season. And so we're going to take a long view. I'm curious for where you think in your conversations you had and just your feel for them, where they're at as an organization right now in terms of valuing this season compared to taking that longer term view. I think momentum is really important in the market like New Jersey. And they galvanized and activated a lot of fans with the way they finished last season that went over the Rangers in the playoffs. And you say, oh, my goodness, look at season ticket sales, look at the way that we have momentum

around us. Let's keep it going. I do think that so many of these times when we talk about moves and we talk about general managers, why are they doing this? Why are they doing that? It all stems from ownership. And what I understand about Tom Fitzgerald and New Jersey ownership is that he has full authority to do everything at this moment to try to make this team better. And that's why you have seen him behind the scenes explore these really massive trades, you know, some conversations over the summer about John Gibson or Connor Hellebuck. Then I went to Jacob Marks from super close to getting that done. It just fell to

a moment of price. And that's why it fell through. Unfortunately, New Jersey has just run into some really bad luck, but also we can kind of trace back to why this all began. They parted with two veteran defensemen because of contracts and we completely understand why they did that. But I think maybe they underestimated the impact that would have, even though Luke Hughes is so exciting and dynamic, even though Simone Nemich is seriously ready for the NHL, they needed more help back there. And once Dougie Hamilton went down, they just didn't have the reinforcements to help there. And that exposed what was a weak position to begin with, which is goaltending, because they were having conversations over the summer. This team knew it. They knew that Akira Shamed looked amazing in the

playoffs and could be the goalie of the future, but needed more seasoning, probably in the HAL. And we've seen that with him going down there and needing to work on his game. And as we speak now, Nico Dawes has stabilized the position a bit, but they still probably need something better back there. They don't help at that defense because it's been completely exposed. And then they've just had some really bad injury luck. Jack Hughes has missed a number of games. Tim O'Mire, I know he hasn't quite panned out the way that Devils fans have hoped, but he was injured this year and then probably came back a little too soon. It wasn't at 100% and is now finding his game again.

So all of these things just lead to a really disjointed season, a season where they committed to Lindy Roth and gave him an extension. So I think Tom Fitzgerald in a lot of ways, it's just in crisis mode of figuring out, okay, we do need to keep this momentum going with our fan base at the same time. I know I've got the goods to make this team really good for a long time. and maybe if we do miss the playoffs this year, it will be a step back, but I can take three steps forward because I like the way I drafted. I like the prospects that we have and I feel really good about it. So I'm curious to see what direction they go because it does feel like things have spiraled for them a bit over the last two weeks.

In some of these losses, they're in the mix of this playoff hunt and it's still possible. But if you don't go get that great goaltender, a defenseman, and then you're asking them to play at a super high level and just really quickly, it still might not happen for you. do you just take a pause on this season and say, okay, we made a lot of progress last year. We're going to take this one as a gap year and we'll come back stronger next year. Or do you just have to go for it to keep that momentum going? Yeah. It's frustrating because I'm with you. You don't necessarily want to overreact to this.

And like I said, they have got this core locked up, right? Enico Hissier and Jack Hughes are in their prime. And so this isn't, for a lot of contenders, it's sort of, you know, boom or bust in terms of if we have this short window. And if we don't win this year, then it's never going to happen for us. this obviously isn't the case. At the same time, those guys are in their prime. They've got Luke Hughes and Shimonemich on ELCs still, right?

They've got this also, should say, this $9 million sort of burning a hole in their pocket between now and the end of the regular season with Dougie Hamilton on LTIR until the playoffs. And so that gives them this unique opportunity to potentially beef up their team for the rest of the season and go for it that way. And I'm glad you also mentioned the defense, right? Because I've talked a lot about Vitech Van Tzschex struggles this season and how he, something's clearly wrong with him and he wasn't performing well and it didn't have other options really until Nico Does stepped up. But the defensive structure has passively regressed. They're 22nd

and expected goals against 28th in inner slot shots against. They've been brutal against the rush all year. And just watching that game yesterday against the lightning, that was a really tough one to reconcile for me because you look at it on paper, right? And it's like, all right, this is a team that you're directly competing with for a playoff spot. You're on a back-to-back as well because they played the Canadians the previous night, but you've been playing at home all weekend. You're playing against this older team that I think the past couple years we've seen strategically. I'm not sure how much John Cooper would admit this or not. But when they don't have it in some of these games, they almost just, you know, they don't give up, but they're like, listen, this just isn't our night and we're

not going to push and it can get ugly. And we've seen them sort of backed in that situation. And instead, the devils really just didn't put up a fight at all. They didn't even get to 20 shots on goal all game. They were entering that third period down to one. So you'd think, all right, They're the team with motivation to really give it one final push here. And they had three shots on goal in the entire third period, playing against Tampa Bay's backup goalie at that. And so you watch that performance. And I can see why there's so much frustration because this is such a tantalizing group.

They still have all that individual talent. I think their upside is still as high as it's ever been. But then you're watching the on-ice result. And it's just not coming together. Yeah. And it's a combination. I felt like when we began talking about the devils, he talked about player usage.

I felt like you were subtexting some Alexander Holtson here because I know that's been a frustrating player for Devils fans, just his usage in games, even just game time, just being benched for large periods, knowing that he's a player with a really high ceiling, but it's been so inconsistent to start off his career. I think part of it is a coaching issue and part of it is a roster construction issue.

Largely in the league, as I talk to people, specifically over the last two weeks, there's a belief that this is probably Lindy Ruff's last year in New Jersey, that it would make sense for coaching change, but I also understand why Tom Fitzgerald has been loyal to him. One, he just gave him an extension, but two, because of the holes that he's left for him in the defensive group, not addressing the goaltending. And then just some of the forward injuries that he's had, it's really not his fault.

Well, and also, I'm not sure sort of the timeline of this or how much of it was ultimately Andrew Brunette's decision, but it also does feel like, is it fair to say that they essentially like chose keeping Lindy Ruff as the head coach because of the success he had last year, as opposed to potentially retaining Andrew Brunette by any means necessary and giving him that job? Because it feels like, I don't know if he just, did he just choose? He's like, listen, I'm not going to get that seat right now and I'm ready to be a head coach again. And so Nashville obviously ponied up and they got him.

And we're going to talk about the predators here in a second. But he's had awesome success in terms of revitalizing the way they play. And as I imagine that kind of compounds this as well, right, where once you make that decision, you sort of back yourself into sort of doubling down or saving face by seeing this one through maybe longer than you would have otherwise if that hadn't already happened? I don't know if it necessarily came down to Brunow or Lindy Rough, but it does feel like ownership and management was like, how can we turn away from this man who led our franchise past the first round of the playoffs, over exceeding expectations? That's not right,

especially a man with Lindy Roth's resume in this league, who does have so much success, who really brought out the best in Jack Hughes. So that's why they stuck with him. And I have no problem with that, but it does feel like if this continues the way that we've seen it the last two weeks, that a new boys will meet he did. Yeah, I think the whole stuff is fair. Listen, he's won five-on-five goal behind Tyler Defoli for the team lead. And some of that is because they've had key players missing significant time this season. But he's 11th on the team in forward usage as well at 5-1-5. And so those two things don't line up. And now you're getting at these sort of war words between coach and media and acting like pressure is this new thing where it's something that all teams in big

Markets face. I don't know. And we haven't even noted yet that they've given up the first goal in 42 of 58 games now, which is obviously highly alarming when you're essentially starting every game with a one-nothing deficit. So yeah, it's tricky. They just need a Matt Rumpy to get them going. Oh, they need to do something to change the way they're starting these games. And listen, they've got 24 games left. They're going on this Cali trip right now with two very, very winnable games. And the way the Kings have been playing, I'd say three winnable games. And they're five points back of a Flyers team, which I'm not sure if we're going to talk about them today because I've spent so much time talking about them on the PDA cast the past couple weeks, but they're

a team that's just looking for a reason to trade away some valuable contributors if teams force their hand. And I know that you broadcast the game the day they had recently this weekend as well. So maybe if you have any notes on them, we can quickly throw them in here. But the point I'm trying to make is the runway is here and it's as pretty as open as you're going to get for a devil's team down the stretch. But they actually have to start winning some of these games and not taking a step back every time they take one forward. Totally. I guess the only note I would make on the flyers is this.

They made some trades for veteran players to leave. Ivan Provarov, Kevin Hayes, like, we know the guys that left. And it's nothing against those guys, but it felt like management and Toronto John Portobello realized that they just had too much air at the locker room and they had to empower the young players to be themselves. And they have a lot of respect for the guys that left. but it was addition by subtraction. And once they empowered those younger guys in the locker room,

they found their voice, but they've also completely bought into the torturalization of this team. And they're playing so hard. And you're right. I think they've over-exceeded expectations. And you've got to go for the playoffs because you have to set that culture. Winning is really important.

But they know they're probably two, three years away for winning sustainably. And that's why they're trying to trade away a lot of these key players on their team, like a Scott Lawton, they're listening to a ton of offers, like Nick Seeler and Sean Walker, who've been a really great defensive pair because you just got to build for the future. Well, that's why it's so funny.

Every interview that I've seen, of Danny Breyer, the past couple weeks and a couple months, I feel like the subtext of it is like he really wants to do a full-blown rebuild because I think he acknowledges that like he just got hired, right? They totally changed his front office. And so that buys them. Because now is your time to do it. You don't get to do it in two, three years. You got to do it now.

And also a big market team like the Flyers with Deep Pockets also has a unique advantage in terms of taking that sort of approach, right? Because they can they can fund moves that other rebuilding teams might not be able to make. Sometimes these smaller market teams are like, well, we haven't made in the playoffs in a couple of years, getting a few home games worth of playoff revenue would be really nice. And we're worried that our fans are becoming totally disinterested because we haven't had an entertaining product to give them on the ice and give them a reason to come out and give their heart. earn money. For the Flyers, their fan base is so passionate and so deeply entrenched that they could go 10 years of being the worst team in the league and they're still going to have people coming to the games even if it's to boo them and hate watch them, right? That's the way Flyers fans are. And then you've got the opportunity to take on bad contracts as they've done already and sort

of creatively add assets in those types of trades. So it would be pretty fun to rebuild a team in that situation. But unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on the way you look at it, they've just been so competitive and they've been winning so many games in such a sustainable fashion that I'm not sure they're going to get the chance to do so. Maybe they will anyways because someone just comes in over the top rope and forces their hand and gives them first round picks. But other than that, I feel like they're going to have to see this thing through. And that's not the end of the world. Like there's other ways to add high level talent, right? I think getting young players an opportunity to play meaningful games is always a good thing.

But just that dynamic of like, ironically, a GM clearly wanting to do something, but then his team going out of the way and prevent out of their way and preventing him of doing so is kind of funny to me. Totally. I think the storyline to watch with the Flyers from here until the end of the season is they're using this as an addition for Orson to see if he can be the number one guy. And they're going to start giving him starts as if he's the number one, not overusing him. They clearly don't trust Peterson. He's not the guy. He probably doesn't have much of a future in the organization.

And so I'm curious too if he is the guy because he's getting this perfect audition, but could he get over taxed? Is he ready for this moment? So time will tell. All right, Emily, let's take our break here. And then we come back. We'll pick things right back up and finish off today's show. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.O.cast streaming on the SportsNet Radio Network. The most comprehensive Canucks coverage in the city. Canucks Central with Dan Ritio and Satyar Shah. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. We're back here on the Hocke's. Hockey-Pedio cast joined by Emily Kaplan's. Emily, before we went to break, we were talking about

the Devils, and we were talking about Andrew Burnett, and we were also talking about the devil's interest in goalies, right? And Markstrom has been the sort of the big name attached to them, but also UC Soros has as well. And I think combining those two things gives us a little chance here to talk about the Predators, who I think are a very fascinating team to keep an eye on between now and March 8th, because last year at this time, they were a primary supplier for contenders around the league, right? They aggressively turned Matias Eckholm, Tanner, you know, Michael Granlin, Nino Nieder Rider, into a full treasure trust of futures. That was around the time Barry Trotz took the organization over, and they made a concerted

effort or point of changing the culture and the vibes around the organization, right? They bought out, or they traded Ryan Johansson and retained some money to do so. They bought out Matthew Shane. They spent a bunch of money bringing in well-liked veterans to come in and help accomplish all of that. And I would say that so far the first stages of that, they've done so. I think Andrew Burnett has them playing a really competitive style of hockey that's really fun to watch. And they're coming off this five-game sweep on the road where all of a sudden now they're sitting in the wildcar two position in the West.

They've got about a 44% chance of making the playoffs according to Dom's model. And they're in an interesting spot where once again, they have a lot of players that would be theoretically very interesting to contenders who are all impending UFAs this summer. But they're also playing well enough right now where I'm not going to say they're going to be buyers by any means. but it might incentivize them or make them feel more comfortable hanging on to some of these guys and are awarding the team for playing the way they have and trying to make the playoffs again as opposed to what they did last year. So the biggest trend I've noticed this year at the trade deadline is how many teams are on the bubble in the mix willing to be sellers.

Like the blues are a good example. The capitals are probably a good example. Penguins are probably going to be an example. and I think the predators are going to be the best example of this. Because like you said, you should want to incentivize these players. They're playing really hard. They've got an interesting style. They're clearly, you know, finding their way under Andrew Burnett.

At the same time, it feels like Barry Trots came in and the same situation as Danny Brerer. Here's my time to build it up the way I want to build it up. I cannot tell you how many times of the last two weeks someone has told me on the phone, hey, do you know what this Tommy Novak kid? Tommy Novak's really good. Tommy Novak, to me, is going to be the player like Tanner-Jononeau last year. I don't think he's going to get quite the bounty because that was insane for Tander Geno, but he's going to be the player that goes for way more than you think just because he's a position

of need center and because he's rated highly by all of these teams. As it pertains to you say Saros, it felt like up until maybe a month ago, it was out of the question that he could be traded, that he is the goalie that the predators believe in. They pass a torch from Pecoran to him. And then all of a sudden it's like, okay, Yaroslav Ascarov, who you drafted in the first round, is tearing it up in the AHL. He needs to get some crease time as soon as next season. Why don't you capitalize now on U.S.S.S.

when there is so much thirst for goaltending around the league. So it does feel like they were just kind of fielding calls. If you call them and blew them away, then maybe they would trade U.S.S. Now it feels like it's to the point where there's a distinct possibility he's traded either before March 8th or over the summer when typically more of these hockey trades get done and you can get more. Only 75% of those calls have been from yours truly.

blowing up your phone about Tommy Noback because I've been trying to tell everyone. Do you love Tom and back too? I've been trying to tell everyone that's listening all year and now. I'm like, all this guy does is be very productive while playing. His underlying numbers match it up. His actual production, when you watch him play, he's very valuable. He's also in a unique spot where at that age he has so few NHL games accrued and he's hitting unrestricted free agency this summer that it's such a nothing contract that anyone can basically just add it for free. Right. And so where do you see guys who are this productive and this useful at a premium position that makes so little? It's such a rare commodity.

And so I think anyone paying attention, he's not going to be a flashy one. I imagine for most teams, if you make a big trade for Tommy Novak, a lot of your fan base is going to be like, who and quickly be searching him on elite prospects. But man, he is a good player, and I would be very interested in him for a number of contenders. It's interesting you brought up sort of this concept or trend of bubble teams being with. willing to sell. I mean, part of it is I was looking at the standings. And I think there's really only eight teams in the league right now that are firmly out of it. There's a bunch like the teams you mentioned, like I'd say the Blues and the Capitals that I wouldn't necessarily expect to be playoff teams or even if they keep hanging around, they shouldn't act like they are. But at the

same time, they're mathematically still in it. And so you've got such a glut of teams that are still competing. I'm curious about how willing they actually are to sell though, right? Because I think we've heard from the blues perspective, I'm sure there's a bunch of players they would like to sell, but they can't because of their contracts or because of other financial complications. The one guy who keeps coming up is Paolo Bucenevich, and I bet every team would want to acquire him, but everything I'm hearing is, yeah, he's available if you want to give us an absolute premium of first round picks and prospects. And when you get into that, well, technically every player is available for the right price, right? So it's not really selling if all it's going to take is

an absolute godfather offer. So I'm kind of curious to see whether these teams actually become more motivated to sell just for the sake of recouping assets or whether it is a matter of sort of drawing that hard line in the sand and waiting for someone to blow you away. Totally. As it pertains to the blues, I think you're banged on when it comes to Buccanevich. It's like because he has one extra year on his contract, because of his age, his productivity, it's like, sure, you can have him, but like give us two first round picks.

And people are like, whoa, hold up. I know a lot of Rangers hands were curious. Could there be a reunion there? I'm told, like, no, they don't want to pay a price like that to bring him back. I think with a player, like, I think he's talking about a lot of his defensemen, Tori Krug. I'm not sure if there's been much traction there. Colton Pereko is another really interesting one.

I mean, he's under contractual 2030. So you're talking about a massive hockey trade if that gets done, potentially. But I feel like what Doug Armstrong believes in what so many of these other teams who are on this bubble, who are trying to sell believe is like, sure we can make the playoffs, but I just don't see it in our group to make for a long run. So let me just try to gear up best for next year and get a head start on it rather than having to do all of my work over the summer. Yeah.

Okay, one final note on the Preds, because I've got this down, I was mentioning Brunette in the system. These are the stats that Sport Logic has them at. They're third in slot shots, fifth and offensive zone time, sixth in cycle chances, third in four check chances, third in rebounds created. And I just want to note all that because they play so hard. And I mentioned it's really fun to watch. and a lot of the players involved, like a Yakov-Trennan, are a big reason why, Tommy Novak, Alex Carrier, right?

You get into all these guys who are impending UFAs and are going to generate a lot of interest. You mentioned on the Soros note, I just wonder, because I, you know, he's clearly been disappointing this season based on his lofty expectations, right? He's kind of hovering around a league average, say, percentage, although he's looked a lot better recently.

In watching him play, I'm no Kevin Woodley. I'm no goalie evaluator by any means from like a technical perspective, but I see all the stuff that made us fall in love with him in the past, like the athleticism and how hard he competes. That's all still there. So I fully believe in him. I just think from their organizational perspective, though, Yarslav Ascarov is playing so well in the AHL

where I don't know if people have been paying attention to this, but that Milwaukee Admiral's team with a bunch of NHL prospects just had their 19-game win streak snapped during that time. Ascarov had five shutouts in those 19 games, and he's been playing so well. And it's such a fun personality. I believe that Admiral's organization is doing like a, not a bobblehead, but like a figurine giveaway of him doing the bench press with the goal that he did at celebrating last season. So they're really embracing it.

He's such a fun personality. He's really good. And his ELC expires after next season. So they're very incentivized to get him in here sooner rather than later eating NHL games up and getting a better chance to evaluate him up close in terms of how much of a part of he is of the future. But we also know, we should note, this is a team that once Barry Trots took over last year. I know part of it was they were the host team at the draft, right? And so they were trying to mix it up and get involved and give their fans something to cheer for. But there was a lot of rumors at that time about the goalie position for them and trades they were trying to make that ultimately fell through.

And so this isn't new by any means for them, but I'm very curious to see how this unfolds because you've got two big names here that both should be playing that obviously both can't because they play the same position. And so how they weigh all of that and whether they act now or in the summer, it seems like eventually this will be resolved. But I'm curious if it happens the next 10 days. Yeah, the one other note I would add is even though this is Barry Trott's team, David Poil is still very much involved. I think his voice is still heard in the organization. And if you think of the model that David Poil had, it was Pecker Arena for so many years. But U.S. is like, holy cow, he's the best backup and he's just not getting enough starts. And that worked for them because it developed U.S.

into what we believe to be the stud today. I know that he mentioned his stats have been a little middling this year, but he still regarded as a very good goaltending. So I think they would be comfortable going into next year, whereas you say Saras and Ascarov backing him up. But ideally, I think if you're trying to build for the future to capitalize on a really thirsty team like New Jersey

or like Los Angeles would make a lot of sense and try to build your team out outside of the net. Okay, let's try to rattle through some of the other remaining kind of contenders and engage where they're at in terms of, of aggression level and sort of what they're working with between now and March 8th. We've got 10 minutes or so, so we'll see how many we can rattle through. Do I want to do the lightning real quick? Because I know you referenced them up the top and you talked about them.

But they're in a fascinating spot where everything you keep hearing is they're the team most directly linked to Noah Hannafin and how the question of sort of what they have to actually accommodate it from like a resources perspective because they've obviously shipped out so much draft capital and prospects over the past couple years. So I'm kind of curious about that because losing Sergachev was massive, but also it opened up money for them to actually add. And so now I'm very curious to see what they do and what resolves because they're clearly going to do something for whatever your take is on how good of a team they are at this point. They're so backed into the corner of like all that matters right now is trying to win as many games as you can with this group that they're clearly going to do something. Death, taxes and Julian Brie is Bob pulling absolute magic out of his pocket.

at the trade deadline, right? And I talked to him this year. He's also very tight-lipped with information. And he told me the Mikhail Surgenshav injury didn't change their approach that they always planned to be aggressively looking to add to their group. The only thing it changed for them is that they now have all this cap space so they don't need to find a third-party broker or eat salary. Like they can go out and spend this cash. So I do think defense, if you look at who they've been trotting out there is a massive area of need. You know, they've got Victor headman who's, I hate to say, it is starting to show some signs of age. You know, his athleticism was always his number one attribute.

He's on the other side of 30 now. You've got Eric Chernak, but behind that, I mean, Herbix, DeHan, some of these European free agents they brought in, like, Lilberg, like, they're fine, they're good. You can see what you have, but if you're going to make a run, you need to help yourself out in the defensive group. And just from what I've heard from other teams that they're sniffing around on forwards too. So I think they believe, as long as you have Nikita Kutrov, who, you know, needs to be in these

MVP conversation, first player at 100 points this year. As long as you have Andre Basilevsky, you got to go for it. Point Sorrelli as well. But I have no idea what they're going to do. And I feel like he always surprises us with names that we don't expect. Yeah, they're certainly going to try to do something pretty aggressive. I got two notes on them. One is a lot has been made of the fact that they don't have a first until 2026, right?

They're down a first and second this year. They're down a first in 2025. And the more I think about it, the more I think that's actually a good thing for a perspective trade because we don't often see this prioritized as much in the NHL as we do in the NBA, where we see so many of these future-oriented trades where teams are doing pick swaps and, you know, getting first-round picks in 2029, 2030. And it's like you can't almost envision how far down the line that is, whereas the NHL so much more is prioritized on this upcoming draft. But if I'm a team trading with the lightning, I'm very interested in getting their 2026 first or even

beyond because all of a sudden that seems like a much more likely outcome where especially if that pick isn't protected, they sort of move past their competitive window and by 2026, 2027, what's this team going to look like? Who's even going to be left over remaining on the roster? And that pick could all of a sudden become a premium asset, whereas the one this year, the upside on it isn't that high unless they totally crash in the final couple weeks of the season. So that's one thing. And the other thing is sort of the elephant in the room at all. of this, and I don't think it's going to affect the deadline, but just in terms of future planning is Stephen Stamikos' status and how that situation gets resolved, because obviously a lot was made

early in the year with his lack of an extension and what that meant for his future with the organization. He's still scoring a lot, but I think that speaks more to the magic of Nikita Kuchrov in the year he's having because all of it is coming on the power play. He's got two five-on-five goals since December 15th, And we are recording this on February 26th. So a lot of time has passed since then. And he's just been very ineffective at 515 when he's not playing with the best passer in the league. And so I'm very curious to see how that affects situation, whether I think it'll be telling, right? Because if they take on money into next season with whatever trade they make, then all of a sudden, the amount of money they can spend this summer to bring Stamco's back or do something like that becomes directly impacted.

Whereas if they acquire a pure rental, then all of a sudden maybe that speaks to the. fact that they're sort of reserving a good chunk of cap space for retaining Stamco's. I'm fascinated by that. The one thing in San Stamcoast is I don't think anybody knows what's going to happen next year. I don't think Stamco's knows because Breespa has always said what happens this year. We want to see how the air shakes out and then we'll have to plan for the future. So that is probably going to be the juiciest story. We're all following the summer and I can't wait to see how it pans out either.

So you mentioned on Bukchnevich a couple minutes ago that the asking price was two first and a lot of teams balking at that. One team I can think of... I don't know if it's two first specifically. I just know it's high. Something in that ballpark and then maybe beyond, especially if there's retention involved and all of that. A team like the Oilers, who is in this spot where they just passed Vegas for second in the Pacific, but they're still sort of staring down this collision course with them, regardless of who has home ice in round one. And they have two more years. They have the rest of this year and next year with Leontreis-Itidal, at which point he will be a 30-year-old unrestricted free agent and Conorne McDavid

will be entering the final year of his deal. That team should not, under any circumstances, in my opinion, by March 9, have access to their 2024 and 2025th first. Like, if there's a situation to push all in for two years and use those picks, which at no point will they become valuable first rounders, I can't think of a situation more likely than this. And so just hearing you speak about Wichnevich and mentioning those two firsts and like, which team would do that because we so rarely see it at NHL trade deadline, it's usually a first in a prospect or whatever.

Like the Oilers are a team that should be as aggressive as humanly possible. And I'm very curious to see what they do because in the past couple years, I know they made the Ekholm trade, but they've been relatively reluctant to sort of make that all and move and they've been trying to buy their time and all of that. But we're getting to this interesting crossroads for them where it might be time to do so. I think the thing about the Oilers and not enough people are talking about is Leon Drysiddle is becoming an unrestricted free agent soon. And they've got to convince him to stay.

convince him to stay by making really strong pushes to the Stanley Cup. You know, it is Ken Holland's last year. Like, we know that. That maybe he bumps into an advisory role, perhaps, but they're transitioning down to Jeff Jackson. It feels like he more than anyone is leading this all in push because he understands. But they've been one of the most aggressive teams. I think they're going to be okay with Stu Skinner. I think they probably are fine in the goaltending department.

They think they can ride it out with him. They've been looking at defensemen, but it feels like their number one need is to find someone to play with dry sidel. and also just bolster their forward group. So I think that's why they're in on Gensel. They would be in on a player like Buccanevich. And I don't think they're going to get just one player. I think it's going to be multiple players. And at least one of them is going to be a super high impact player.

As they should. I'm very interested to see how that situation resolves. Okay, I'll give you the pick here. I think we can do one more team. Vegas, the Rangers, the Jets, or the Hurricanes. Let's go Rangers. I have so many Rangers games. All right, let's do it.

They're looking for at least two forwards, a center in a right wing. It makes total sense. You lose Heidel. You lose Blake Wheeler for the year. I've heard from other teams that any time they brought up their top two prospects, Gabe Perot and Brendan Offman completely off the table, they don't want to give them up.

I think they're willing to give up a first round pick as long as it's worth it. But if you look at the way the team has played, I mean, we're talking about this after they have a 10-game winning streak. Why not them? Why not this year? Why not go all in? So I do think they've been sniffing around on a ton of impact players. I think they've been scouting Nashville pretty heavily.

I wouldn't be shocked if that's where Tommy Novak ends up. I think they've been around some of these other teams. And I'm just curious to see who they can fit in here and how they gel with this group. Yeah, especially because I think the past two years in particular have provided such an interesting and fascinating dichotomy, right? Two years ago, I thought that they obviously had a wonderful trade deadline and it paid dividends. They made it all the way to a conference final. And it was very substance-based. thought in terms of like bringing in players who weren't necessarily flashy names, but ones who provided

skillsets they really needed and helped push them over the top. Last year, they went with a more traditional New York Rangers approach of like, let's get the biggest names on the market that are going to generate the most fan interest in excitement in that regard. And then you watched them play. And it's like, I don't know if they necessarily needed Vlad Tarasanko and Patrick Kane at this point. I think they probably could have used other skill sets that maybe provided different versatility. And so that's a good thing because if they go the substance route, those are points. who theoretically will be cheaper, right? Because there's less sort of competition for them. And generally, we know what commands price in these trades. And it's big names who produce a lot.

And so, you know, I think they can just add speed in guys who can help in that regard. Panarin's playing at as high out level as he ever has. Shisterick and in February has bounced back into his Vesna form. That power play is absolutely lethal. And so you've got a recipe for success there. Now just a matter of sort of supplementing it. And so if you have faith in the front office taking that approach, I think you should be very confident in this team. I'm just worried about what they're sort of going to sort of choose to do in that regard because I think we've seen them mess this up a little bit before.

Totally. Look, it's another front office. I've said this now a couple of times. But Chris Drury runs a tight ship. His boss is James Dolan. He doesn't like a lot of information to leak. But the sense I get just being around that team, seeing the vibe, things were really bleak for a bit.

Now that Igor Shusarkin's playing better, now that it feels like they're getting the production from the players that they want to, Alexia Lefrienne looks like the player that we hoped and expected him to be. I think they're just saying, why not us? We're top of the standings, why not? I love it. Well, speaking, it is a tight ship.

It was this so weird, and I think it's been sort of refuted since, but when that rumor came out that Jim Tholen didn't want them to trade their first, I remember that was, that created quite the buzz, but I don't think that was actually the case. I know. It's so tough to say.

And I feel like any rumor that's out there is out there for a reason. Like this is my PSA. I always think when someone tells me something, they're motivated to say it because they want it out there and why. So there was a reason that was out there. Maybe it was a negotiating tactic. Who knows? But from what I understand,

the first round pick is completely available as long as it's for the right player and worth it. They're not just going to give it up. They're not giving a first round pick for Tommy Novak. We'll say that, even though I know that you believe he might be worth one. Well, I wouldn't go that crazy, but I will say I personally don't have any nefarious interests or biases. I'm just passing along the information that I think Tommy Novak is very good.

And so I'll just leave it there. Okay. Emily, let's, thank you. Let's get out of here. I'll let you plug some stuff on the way out, let the listeners know not only what your upcoming broadcasts are, but what you've got in the works ahead of the trade line because I know it's going to be a busy time for you. Yeah. You know what?

Honestly, like nothing specific. Just check out ESPN.com or YouTube channel. We're kind of pumping that up a little bit. I'll have some trade videos there. And then the point is our show that I think doesn't get enough credit. You can catch the replays on ESPN Plus, but it's a news magazine show about hockey. It's fantastic. If you can't catch it live on ESPN 2.

You can catch all of it at ESPN Plus. And this makes me a very good company woman. Support the Walt Disney Company. Awesome, Emily. Well, looking forward to seeing you on the broadcast, keep up the great work and looking forward to having you on again soon, hopefully in the second half once things die down a little bit. But my only plug is keep your eyes glued on this feed because the next time you hear from me, it's going to be our annual trades we like to see trade deadline preview.

This was a nice little primer to sort of get the wheels in motion. And that's going to be a fun one where I'm going to cook up as many Tommy Novak trades as I can. So looking forward to that. Thank you, Emily, for coming on. Thank you to the listeners for tuning in. We'll be back with plenty more of the Hockey Ocas streaming on the SportsNate Radio Network.