The Hockey PDOcast - End of Conference Finals, Start of Stanley Cup Final, and Conn Smythe Picks

Episode Date: May 30, 2023

Pete Blackburn joins Dimitri to discuss how the Golden Knights finished the Stars off in definitive fashion, some of the top storylines ahead of the Stanley Cup Final, and the market for future Conn Smythe picks. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate. If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Demetri Filippovich. And joining me is the man who has been personally targeted, victimized, attacked, traumatized by South Florida teams this postseason. It's my good buddy, Pete Blackburn. Pete, what's going on, man? Yeah, it was better like a month ago or so. It was even two days ago.

The Miami Heat, man. Yeah, it's been a tough. It's been a tough spring. I likened it to getting kicked by twins in the private area with South Florida, kind of doing the same thing to the Bruins and the Celtics. So good for them. I'm happy for them, but not really.

Yeah, I think a couple weeks before the regular season ended, you and I did a show the last time we spoke, and we did a whole segment on what team struck the most fear in you as a Bruins fan in a round one matchup. And if this was a better production, maybe we could like roll the tapes and play back a bit of that segment. I don't even remember how we how we framed.

I think we were kind of cautiously concerned about the upside of the Panthers, I guess, right? I feel like we were like, oh, the Islanders would probably be the softest matchup. The Panthers would be at least a little bit scary. But you were pretty competent at the time, understandably so, of course. Yeah, I mean, I was definitely confident. I didn't think that any of those teams had posed a real threat to the Bruins. but I think I do remember saying that, like, you know, the Panthers are a good goaltender away from being a pretty good team.

And it wasn't the guy that I probably would have pointed to at that point in time. But here we are. Sir Gibrovsky, best goaltender in the world. Love it. Okay, well, we've got a bunch of topics we're going to get into. We'll talk about last night's game. We will start looking ahead to the Stanley Cup final, answer some mailback questions as well.

Let's start with last night's stars, Golden Knights, Game 6. though I was very excited about it heading in. My Monday show was a full preview of that game. I was like, yes, I'm so excited for more hockey. I'm not ready to get to just one series being left. Let's get a game seven in this one. And the stars did not get that memo. And you know what?

Maybe I shouldn't frame it that way because it feels like that's what we've been doing this entire time instead of giving the credit to the Golden Knights for what they did to them. But, you know, Vegas jumps out to that 3-0 lead early in the first. and it was a rap at that point. Like it was a very similar vibe to game three without the suspension and shenanigans and all that. But otherwise, like the game was played in a very similar format and that was pretty disappointing. Yeah, for sure. And the stars seem like one of those teams where, you know, if you do jump out to like that 3-0 lead or like a big lead in the first, it kind of has like this is over already.

Like there wasn't much holding on to hope throughout the course of that game because we've seen it through the course of these playoffs where like the stars are just kind of day and night and you see it early on whether they have it or they don't. And when they have it, man, you can you can tell early on because they're not giving you anything. And so if you get a good amount in the first period, you can probably write them off. So, you know, I think the inconsistency was the biggest downfall of the Dallas stars in these playoffs. runs, you know, from a team perspective, all the way down to, like, an individual perspective, like the inconsistency of a Jake Ottinger during the course of this run was tough to overcome, too. So a little bit disappointing, but I think that, you know, in certain ways, you can hold your head high a little bit with the stars.

Yeah, I mean, they made it to Game 6 of the West Final. I think they, you know, I thought the teams were very close in terms of, like, Trutonel level for much of the series. but second time in three home games for Dallas that they essentially laid an egg and just got absolutely beaten down and that's what game six was right it was like a beat down of of the highest order I had the scoring chances in that game at 22 to 5 for Vegas which means that for those scoring at home some quick math if the stars had converted 100% of their scoring chances they still would have lost 6.5 so you know certainly not ideal but I guess you know credit does go to Vegas because

it felt like right from the opening face off of game six they were all over them right i think like that first shift they got a couple shots a couple chances had kept them hemmed in their own zone and they never really let up and when they play that way um you know they're they're a nightmare matchup because there's no real there's no real breaks that you can take right bruce cassidy made a nice adjustment of moving niccois off of that carlson line and putting him on the fourth line because they had had a tough game previously and then that line comes up with two goals and and and and keeps that pressure up. And so there's no real off switch there, right? Like when we talk about depth of teams, this Vegas team legitimately has it. And that's what makes the Stanley Cup final

fascinating as well, because both teams have three really, really good lines essentially. And then their fourth lines aren't too shabby either. But it's, you know, it makes for final watch. It's also a nightmare to play against. And that's kind of what the stars went through in this game six. Yeah. I mean, you mentioned it. Like starting the game with like the bottom end of your, your your lineup and kind of establishing the tone, not only establishing the tone, but getting production from, from those guys is huge. And I mean, it's, again, you said it, but like not letting your foot off the gas over the course of a 60 minute game, like the consistency factor is huge, both from, like, from series to series to game, but also from shift to shift. Like if you're not taking your

foot off the gas and you're forechecking relentlessly and you are uh you know you constantly have that motor going like it you talk about the stars they look so flat from the jump in game six and like maybe it's a case of them just kind of running out of gas maybe it's a case of them like not having that consistency from a game to game basis but you just you can't do that especially when you get deeper into the playoffs and you are going up against teams like the golden nights that just like they have it throughout the top to bottom. They have it. They're going well. You can't, you can't give them anything. And that's a tough, that puts a lot of pressure on a team, especially when they're trying to climb out of a hole. Yeah, I mentioned how there's, there's no breaks in the depth of this

Vegas team. Line one, the Eichol-Marshal's whole combination with Barbashev scored five, five-on-five goals in this series. Line two, Carlson's unit with Riley Smith had six. Line three with Stone and Stevenson had only three, two of which were the game one and two overtime winner. and then line four had four and two in game six. And so that's about like as evenly spread as you're going to see over the course of a six game series. And that's just something Dallas didn't really have an answer for. And, you know, credit to the Golden Knights there. Before the game, right, Bruce Cassidy had a hilarious quote that I was like, you know, you know that meme of like the kid.

I think he's like in class or whatever and like all his veins are popping in his head because it's like trying so hard not to like burst out and say something. that was me not responding to Bruce Cassidy saying that his team needed to be harder in game six and sure enough they came out and they really took that to hard because from first shift to the last shift it was and they were Robin, they went no, they were hard. Yeah. I also liked Bruce Cassidy. He commented, I believe it was before game six saying like yeah, they dropped two games in a row and they kind of made it an interesting series, but like, when you zoom out and you say, like, a lot of teams would, and even that team themselves would be very, very fortunate and very grateful to be in a game six of the Western Conference final and knowing that you only have one more to win.

Like, when you zoom out like that, it does put it in perspective a little bit more. And I think that he kind of just like said the right things, did all the right things, made the right adjustments. It's a very good coach as a Bruins fan. Like, you know, it's painful to see him. coaching in the Stanley Cup final, but he absolutely deserves it, and he's done a great job with that group. Well, and it also must hurt quite a bit more just because he felt like he's pushed all the right buttons from like a matchup perspective this postseason as well, right?

Getting everything he wants, putting his players in a position to succeed, and that's something that the Bruins struggle with themselves a little bit in their series against the Panthers. So, okay, I've got a couple questions here for you. Early takes for the Stanley Cup final. I still haven't really done a lot of my prep. I'm going to do that this week and then do a big preview show on. Thursday, but now starting, now that the conference finals are over, we're starting to think about Vegas versus Florida, right? Let's kind of get our heads around that scenario. So, first question,

what would have been a better draw for the Panthers in your opinion? The Golden Knights, as they're going to get now, or if Dallas had come back and won it and seven? I think it's the Golden Knights. I think from like a narrative perspective, it's probably the Golden Knights. And I think, you know, I'm more interested to see how it plays out. Like I think that we know, we have a better idea, I think, of how Dallas tries to play on a given night. And I think the matchup is more intriguing with the way the Vegas plays and going up against the way that Florida plays.

Like, I'm interested to see, you know, does, you know, does Florida dare them to take the middle of the ice? And does, you know, is Vegas able to successfully do it? it because you know i think that what we've seen so far is florida's really good at taking away the walls and winning battles along the walls and they'll dare you to play down the middle and they'll jump all over that and in you know if they if if the puck finds sticks if it finds bodies the offense can go the other way for florida and so i'm interested to see if that continues to work against Vegas and if Florida's speed can kind of torch the Golden Knights defenseman. And

then obviously like the Coley matchup is so funny to me. Aiden Hill versus Sergey Brobrovsky. If you had told me that that was going to be the Stanley Cup final goaltending matchup, I would have been, I would have asked who your dealer was and let me get some of that good stuff. I'm very interested to see a lot of kind of the matchups there. And also, So I think the narrative aspect and the headline of like a brand new star on both sides with Jack Eichol and Matthew Kachuk and then first year coach on both side and like an unlikely goaltender. I think there's a lot of similarities in the makeup of these two teams and how they got here.

Yeah. Well, my next question was going to be excitement level for this matchup because I've seen, and this is something that started happening at the start of the conference finals as well when a lot of the big name teams fell out. And then there was a lot of belly aching, right? about like, oh, this isn't good for the league or whatever. I mean, I've really enjoyed these games. And I think this Stanley Cup final in particular, it's a fresh new matchup, right? It's two different teams. Very fun, aggressive, similar style. So it'll be interesting from a style makes the

fight perspective to see how that plays out as you laid out. And then there is a bunch of star power named brand value as well on both sides, right, in terms of like the individual big name star players that are on both of these teams. And so I don't know. I, like I completely disagree. with this idea that this is a bad Stanley Cup final or that these teams aren't deserving or aren't like adequate representatives of their conferences. Like I think they've been the best two teams on each side throughout this postseason in the aggregate. And so I'm really excited to see which one is able to win out in this series. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you, but I also do see it somewhat from like the side of like, this isn't very sexy. And, and, you know, it doesn't necessarily,

like it doesn't necessarily have to be. I think both things can be true. Like you can be the best team on both sides on the aggregate while also like not being super sexy. Like I think the Panthers have been a little bit more sexy in terms of the way that they've won games and sort of like the pillars of their run. Like they're going to have cooler moments on the DVD if they win. But Vegas has kind of just been, I don't want to say like they've been boring, but they've been like so consistent and so. So, like, there hasn't been a whole lot of, like, holy crap moments for the Vegas Golden Knights. They've kind of just done it pretty textbook. And, like, I don't necessarily, like, I don't know if you agree with that. But, like, I just feel like the Golden Knights have been kind of underwhelming in terms of, like, the entertainment value, I suppose. Yeah, I mean, part of it is just they've taken care of business every step of the way. And maybe that's not as chaotic or, or as excessive. And I think part of it is in you and I would both fall in this camp. I think we were kind of like getting ourselves excited about this being the Edmonton-Oyler's year to go on this type of run. And so then when they just, it was two to in that series and then they just kind of close the door on them in games five and six, it really just was a bit of like an exhale moment. But listen, they're outscoring teams by 17 goals this postseason, which is the best of any team. They were the number one seat in the West this regular season. And when you watch them play, while the draw,

and the games itself might not necessarily be there as it is for Florida. They play a fun style for me. Like it's very north-south, right? There's no off-shifts. You're not like, oh, the fourth lines out there. This is going to be boring. I can go run and, you know, grab another drink or something. Like, their fourth line is going to be out there, going to crash and bang, going to try to create, they've scored some goals as well. And so it's just a steady flow. And maybe it doesn't have those ups and downs as well, right? Because it's just like, it's very consistent in that way, but it's at such an elevated level for me. I actually do, like I enjoy watching them play and I think these games are going to be very

high, very high event, very fast paced and there might be drama because it seems like the Panthers kind of drag that out of everyone they play. Yeah, I think that's fair. Like, you're right in the sense that like, you know, from like a pure hockey perspective, like they're a fun, good team and they're worth appreciating. I just think like from the grander perspective in terms of, I don't know, like maybe pulling in outside fans. Like, I don't know how many people are going to necessarily, like, appreciate the way the Vegas Golden Knights play versus the way that they'd appreciate the Edmonton Oilers, if the Oilers were in the Stanley Cup final, just based off of, like, the chaos factor.

Right. But, you know, there's also the element that, like, every team in the entire league is so boring compared to the Edminton Oilers. Right. because they're outrageous. So, you know, I think it's good for the game outside of ratings. Like, I don't know if the ratings are going to be great, but I don't think, I don't necessarily. It's the final.

Like, if you're going to watch hockey, you're going to tune in anyways. I don't, I don't really. Right. Yeah, but I mean, like, I think the goal or if it is the goal, like, it should be the goal to to pull people in who aren't already committed to watching hockey. Like, you're not going to get that here, which probably is, is what it is. And like, I don't think that's the, you shouldn't have to roll a lot. on an original six team to like hold your league above water every year. But I also think that like,

you know, I don't know how many people are like, oh, I got to check out this Panthers Golden Knights final, which, you know, again, it is what it is. But I think as long as the product is good, I'm going to be happy. And I think that it's going to be a pretty good product. Yeah, I'm pretty encouraged on the product. I also think working in the NHL's favor here, I, I imagine just the fact that the Heat also as an eighth seed are making this run to their own final in their own league. I feel like there's an element of that as well where it's like you're at least more people are aware, I think, of the, of the Panther success just because it's kind of paralleling that, right? So it's not like this own isolated sort of bizarre event and no one even understands or is

aware of at least like, all right, the Panthers and the Heat are both in the final and there's going to be this two week stretch in South Florida where they're just like a finals game every single night. Like, that's going to be pretty cool. And so, I don't know, I, I am in the element of the fact that, like, there, one of these teams is going to win their first Stanley Cup. Like, I always think that that's very cool. And it's, it's going to be a turning point. You know, it's probably less of a turning point for Vegas just because they've kind of had this relevance since entering the league. And they've been in the Stanley Cup final a handful of years ago. So, like, there's less of an urgency or like a rarity factor there. But you know, if the Panthers win, this is, this is huge for South Florida. And in terms of the

sustainability, in terms of building loyalty to that fan base to establishing some goodwill moving forward, like the crowd in Florida has been very, very cool to see throughout, especially in the conference final and even in the second round, like the, the momentum that they're gathering for that fan base is very cool because it is there. It just, it hasn't really been prominent for the last 20 or so years, but there hasn't been a lot of reason. Like, I can't hold that against the South Florida fans because, number one, the arena is in a tough spot. Number two, the franchise hasn't established a whole lot of goodwill and given the fan base a whole lot of reason to invest time, money, loyalty, and, you know, to put their faith in that team, especially when there's

other things going around, like the heat who have had success. So, like to see this franchise potentially turning a corner over the next. next two weeks and having that be the foundation for that team moving forward and its sustainability, very, very exciting. And I think their own crowd has delivered in the game as well, particularly the two ones against Carolina and the Eastern Conference final. Like, that was, it was a good time. It was a good atmosphere.

Yeah, I do think there is a level of added urgency for Vegas, though. I know that, you know, they've existed for what six years now and this is their second Stanley Cup final appearance, but this is an entirely different group. and also they've been so ruthless in putting this team together, right, for both good and bad. And certain times I've certainly disagreed with some of the moves they have made,

but it's pretty clear that their one objective or mandate throughout has been at any cost necessary try to win a Stanley Cup, right? And so they've pushed all of their chips in, pun intended, to get to this point. And so obviously their team is going to look wildly different moving forward and also like relying on the health of Mark Stone's back and all of that and how precarious some of these things are that you need to happen to make this long

run. I know that they're making another one here in a very short window from the last time they made it, but I wouldn't be like, oh, I'm just expecting Vegas to be back here again next year as well. It feels like this is kind of their shot as well to finally get it done. And so I do think there is urgency from them as well. To some extent, though, I feel like the you know, the means to an end has already been kind of justified by making two Stanley Cup finals in six years. Like, even if they were to lose, like, the margins are probably going to be razor thin. And we know that like a Stanley Cup final can be decided on one or two bounces and it can easily go either way. So like, the fact that they've, they've gotten here twice in six years

is impressive, especially starting from scratch. And, you know, I think that that's kind of already been justified. It's just, you know, is it, is it like, is the like the juice worth the squeeze, I suppose, in terms of how many bridges they've burned in terms of like the outlook on that franchise and how they operate? Like, obviously it makes it a little bit easier to justify if you have an actual cup to show for it. But the success that they've seen as a whole has kind of suggested that, hey, if you want to run your franchise that way, and when you clearly kind of know what you're doing and you've found the results,

then all the power to you. If you don't care about being liked, if you don't care about burning bridges, at the end of the day, like the business is the business and we only care about winning, then so be it. Yeah.

Okay, one final question here before we go out of the break. Rest versus Rust for Panthers, because this is going to be a, you know, this is a radio show now, right? This is a very easy talking headpoint to discuss here. And I'm sure if the Panthers come out of the gate struggling in round one, it is going to be an even bigger deal, right? They've had nine full nights off between series here.

Did it affect them? Did it affect their rhythm and all that? Where do we stand on that? Because obviously, this series could have started earlier, Vegas had just, for all I said about them taking care of business every step of the way, they sort of extended this process by losing games four and five and having to play a few extra games and dragging this start of the, series all the way into the start of June, they could have enjoyed a few more nights off

themselves as well here. How should we feel about the gap in time off for the Panthers and how that is going to affect at least the first couple of games of the series? I think maybe in like any other year, I'd say I'd take the rest. But for the Panthers, just given how the tear that they've been on and the fact that they're just not losing games and they're not really all that banged up. I mean, you can look at Barkov and say, yeah, like, the rest is probably, probably good for him. But, like, they don't seem all that weathered or gassed at all. And just given the run that they're on and the momentum that they had, especially with Bob. And I know that Bob, like the book on Bob has been like the more rest that he has, the better that he typically is.

So, like, maybe that's a good thing. But I also look at the heater that they've been on and just the buzz saw that they've been overall. and I guess that I would probably lean like, hey, just keep it rolling. Just keep it rolling because they're not slowing down whatsoever. So, you know, I don't think it's going to hurt them either way, but I do think that there's an element of like them just wanting to continue that momentum and get back on the ice as soon as possible. Yeah, they've won 11 of their past 12 games since going down 3-1 in round 1.

Yeah, when you're ripping off wins that way, and especially in the fashion they have, I think you kind of just want to like keep it going and squeeze as many of these games in a short period of time as you can. I do think the way they play is so physically and emotionally taxing, right, with how aggressively they forecheck and everything they've had to do to be successful this postseason that I'm sure their players don't mind having a few extra days off to sort of recharge for this. I think from Vegas's perspective, I really don't think it matters at all that they have to play these few extra games because if you look at their time on ice distribution, it's remarkable, Pete. So Alex Petrangelo,

leads a team, he plays 2340 per night. Now he played the one fewer game because he got suspended for it. After that, Shay Theodore, 20 minutes and 4 seconds. Alec Martinez, 20 minutes, Jack Eichael, 19 minutes and 19 seconds per game. Those are their ice time leaders. It's like, there's

no, and now they haven't really had to play beyond that one double overtime game in round one against Winnipeg. They haven't had any of these like three or four overtime marathons that the Panthers did. They kind of skew the numbers a little bit. But also when we talk about their depth and how they're rolling their lines and their pairs, you see that in the ice time numbers as well, where they aren't necessarily, you know, you're not going to see what Dallas did with

Mero Hayskin and where he's playing 30 minutes a night. And then as that series went along, you could really see that attrition on like how he was starting to wear down. That's not really a concern here for Vegas either, right? So if anyone could just go from one series to the next, it feels like they're a position to do that. Right. Yeah, we talked about like them not taking their foot off the gas, that's also part of it where, you know, you're not, you're not running guys into the ground. You're getting contributions top to bottom. And so I think you're right. Like, it probably isn't going to affect either one of these teams all that much. But if it were going to affect one team more than the other, I would definitely say Florida is probably going to get hurt a little

bit more. Okay. Let's take our break here. And then when we come back, we're going to get into some con smife talk and answer a few mailback questions. So we'll do that after a break. You're listening to the Hockey P.D.Ocast streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network. Breaking down the top stories in hockey and Elliot Friedman every day. The Jeff Merrick Show. Subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're back in the Hockey-Pedio cast with Pete Blackburn, Pete.

Let's talk cons my here because we've got three rounds worth of games now to discuss. It is a good break in the games here before the Stanley Cup final to consider this. We're going to have between four and seven games left here for guys to improve their candidacy and their resumes. This is voted on by the Pro Hockey Writers Association. And I bring that up because I feel like a constant theme here as we talk about some of these cases is narrative arc is important in terms of especially, right? it's a lot of people who write stories for a living. And so being able to write the story of why this person deserve this award from having like a magical run or getting to this point or overcoming adversity or whatever is going to be a big check in their in their favor. And so let's discuss

that. We've got Sergey Babowski here as the favorite at plus 200, right? And interestingly enough, next is Matthew Kachuk at plus 325. So the top two favorites are both in the Panthers, even though by the market, they are considered the underdog. Now, obviously, if they lose, I don't think either of these guys is going to win this award, because generally it just goes to the best player on the winning team. But I think that maybe speaks to the depth of the Golden Knights as well, right, where there's so many players taking a piece of the pie that it's less defined or concentrated in terms of who's carry this team than it is for Florida, where it really does feel like it's just those two guys, not to diminish what Barkov and Verhagi and a bunch of other guys have done for that team,

but it really feels like it's going to be either Babrovsky or Kachuk if the Panthers win this series. Yeah, 100%. Like you said, it doesn't take away from what those guys have meant in terms of like their production, but like the Panthers run has stood on the pillars that are Brobrovsky and Kachuk, and those two guys have kind of seized most of the spotlight. And, you know, I think that it is more. spread around for Vegas. And I don't know when the last time, like, we've entered a Stanley Cup final with a dog,

having, like, two of the favorites for Wisconsin-Mite. It's such a weird situation to be in. But it does feel like it makes sense in this context. Okay, well, let's have it out. Let's have a debate because I tweeted out Matthew Kachuk's stats after they won game four against the Carolina Hurricanes. You slid into my mentions and commenting about how he hasn't even been the best player on his own team.

you're obviously referring to Sergey Bobrovsky. I've been on the warpath over the past week, recording show after show, not diminishing what Babrovsky's done, but adding some context, I guess, to his performance, especially in the Eastern Conference final, where it's very easy to look and say, oh, wow, he has a 967 save percentage or something. He's given up six goals in four games.

Look how many saves he's made. And then you actually look at the shots he was facing, and it's like, yeah, I don't know. Against this hurricane's offense, I think you or I might have. I've been able to have a 9-40say percentage. Like, it was a lot of weak point shots from Brady Shea and brand. And that's a book on the hurricanes. Like, if you paid attention, like, you know that like a lot of those, those calories

against the hurricanes can often be quite empty. But, like, you know, my argument wasn't like, look how good he was during, during the hurricane series. And it's not a one series award. It's the way that I look at it and the way that I kind of justify picking Brobrovsky and siding with Brobrovsky is Matthew Guch has been unbelievable. unbelievable, unbelievable for most of these playoffs, but especially the last two rounds. And I don't think, actually, I know he's not going to have those opportunities for

for Sergey Birovsky coming in and bailing the Panthers out in that round one. Like if Alex Lyon stays in net, the Panthers lose to the Bruins in round one. I think that's pretty non-debatable. It's like a non-starting point for me. And so not only has Bavrovsky been. been great for pretty much all three rounds. He is the single biggest reason why they even got out of the first round. So everything that comes after is kind of just sugar on top.

And, you know, obviously it's going to require him to have a very good cup final as well for him to win this award and edge out Matthew Kachuk. But if things continue to go down the path that they're going right now, I'm giving Brobrovsky the edge just because Kachuk doesn't have the opportunity to see as much of the spotlight as he has over the past several rounds if it weren't for the guy in net. I don't know though because in round one he made, Bobrovsky did make zero impact in the first four games, right? He came in in game three. They lost game three and four. Now game five, I'll give you credit for that. He was, I'll give him credit for that. He was fantastic, right? I think they got outshot

47, 25. He got them into that overtime. Now, the game winner in that game was scored in overtime by Matthew Kachuk should point out. Game six gives up five goals. Game seven, he was fine. Like, he was good. He certainly, I think the difference in that game seven was he made no bad mistakes, whereas Jeremy Swayman gave up a few bad ones, and he was thrown into a tough position himself, of course, in that game. But I don't know. I was crafting the Bobrovsky argument, I would actually go the other way. I would try to forget round one and try to frame it through the lens of, well, the Leafs got all these chances in round two and he was amazing in that. And then he didn't give up anything to the hurricanes. Don't bother to look at where the shots

were coming from by the hurricanes. He just didn't give up anything. That would be my Bobrovsky argument. And it feels like just because of that Ross A percentage as well, a lot of people have already decided in their minds that this is the greatest goalie performance we've seen in a long time. And so he's standing on his head. And it's, it really is his award to lose, I guess, in the Stanley Cup final. I mean, beyond, I mean, the say percentages can be inflated and be deceiving and stuff. But beyond just the same percentage, he's been great, like, for the most part. Like, he's been probably the best Sergey Brabowski that we've seen, maybe ever, like,

in such a long time. And, you know, I just think that he has been the last line of defense that, like, is so, so crucial to going on a run like this. And, yeah, like, maybe they didn't need him to be that good, given the fact that they've won 11 out of their last 12, like they could use a, they have enough runway to have like maybe a just an okay goalie. But like, you know, I think that just what he's done in terms of slamming the door

and especially in that Toronto series where like just he was outrageous. He was outrageous in the Toronto series. And, you know, I again, like I think that he saved, saved their ass in round one. And, you know, it just, they don't get, they don't get past round one. They don't get past the Bruins if if Boston isn't completely stymied by like and frustrated by a Brobrovsky who just takes away, you know, a few of the opportunities that they, that they do get and kind of make that difference. I mean, he has been the best player

of the most important position, but then it's tricky because you could you could make that argument for like any team that's advancing and their goalie, right? It's very rare that a goalie has like an 880 save percentage and their team still wins a playoff series. Last year, I mean, last year the Colorado Avalin. That's true. I know that was an outlawyer- That was an liberation because of how absolutely loaded that skater group. Right.

But like, so Bobovsky is a 935 save percentage. Aiden Hill has a 937 save percentage in three fewer games. They're 5005 say percentages, 952 for Bob, 951 for Hill. Like, it's, it's, and. I think there's more value. I would say that there's more value in the Bob numbers there as opposed to Aden Hill, just based off of like what's been, I know Aden Hill's been very good himself. Like, I don't want to take anything away from him, but like, no, that Vegas is not sure in front of him has been so good.

Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. But I think what I'm saying is I think Bob, I think Florida's defense instructor hasn't necessarily been nearly as bad as it's made out to be. It was. No, I agree. This postseason, I think they've done a really good job. Yeah, it'll be a test for Bob in this series, right?

On the one hand, Vegas's power play is so bleak that it's not like it would be a consistent. concerned that they were just going to light it up and accumulate a bunch of easy goals that way. But on 5-1-5, they've been the best 5-15 offense this postseason through the three rounds. Connor Hallibuck had an 886 say percentage against them. Stuart Skinner, I was about to say, Jeff Skinner had an 875 say percentage. Jeff Skinner may as well have been in Edward Loyalers in that series. And then Jake O'Donter, 877 in the conference final. So Vegas has made life very difficult for opposing goalies as postseason.

And it's interesting because that runs totally counter to what this team's playoff, this playoff M.O. used to be, right? Where it was like, oh, a goalie can can really beef up their numbers the way Bobrovsky's had so far because Vegas gets very frustrated and then they wind up settling for like kind of weak, very predictable perimeter shots. And this postseason, they haven't really done that. And so this is going to be a very nice final test for both Bobrovsky and for this Vegas offense to see like what's the real deal and whether either of them are an aberration or if

they actually are deserved of their numbers to this point. Yeah, and I think the good thing is that, like, you know, if Brobowski does end up winning, it's probably because he deserved it based off of the way that he plays in this final round. And, you know, if Kachuk wins, it might be because the Panthers were able to survive, despite Bavrovsky not being as good as he was the first two and a half rounds. Well, let me make the Kachuk argument while we're here. I don't think you have to fight too hard.

Wow. The mountains are so good. You've already decided that it's Bobrovsky, so. Well, we have to wait for to see how this final series plays out. But I did say, like, the margins are so thin. And both of those guys obviously have an unbelievable case. Yeah. I worry, I just worry that in the voters' minds, it's already kind of been decided,

barring some sort of extreme where, like, Alex Lion has to come in and net, but then Florida wins anyways. Well, if the bottom falls out, I think Florida loses. Like, if Brovsky, like, if that flip, if that switch gets flipped, they probably lose. That is true. Okay, well, I'm still going to give you my Kachuk case here. 16 games, nine goals, three of them are overtime winners. One came in the final seconds in game four against the hurricanes to finish them off.

12 assists, nine of them primary. He's had 37 high danger chances, which leads the team. He's also set up 38 scoring chances, which also leads the team. The Panthers are up 14 to 5 in his 5-15 minutes. In round one, he goes head to head against Brad Marjean, beats him. 4-0 in their minutes. Round two goes up against Martyr and Matthews beats them 4-1 in their minutes.

And in round three, it was kind of a bit more scattered, but Carolina was clearly devoting their defensive resources towards slowing him down, and he still did fine. And I think beyond the, like, there's a statistical argument, and then there's the more narrative one where he really, like, embodies

what this Panthers team has been and what's made them successful, right? Creating chaos. Change the culture. And then benefiting from it. yes, he's done that, the forecheck, right? Winning battles in front of the net. All of that has been checks every single box. And I just think like, and then you get into the whole star power and marketability

perspective as well where he's clearly reached, ascended to another level as well throughout this run. I feel like there's such a compelling case. And I just want, what I'm saying is I just want voters to keep an open mind heading into the Stanley Cup final, right? I don't want it to already have been decided through these first three rounds. Let's see how the Stanley Cup final goes, but I do think there's a very fair case that you mentioned that they wouldn't have been to this point if it weren't from Bobrovsky. You could make a very same argument that they wouldn't be at this point if it weren't for Matthew Kachuk either.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And I also absolutely agree that like nobody, not even on the, not on the Panthers, but like in the entire NHL, nobody has raised their profile and their level of stardom more than Matthew Kachuk has over the past couple of months. And it's like, it's not even close. And it's been deserved the entire, every, every part of it. has been deserved from his off-ice stuff, like the interviews, just like his personality, how much fun he's having, the culture stuff in the room. I think that that is a real tangible thing and just kind of the way that he's really shaped that team and provided it a personality to that team and kind of an edge to that team.

And then obviously his play on the ice and the impact that he's had both in the shadows and in the light in like the biggest moments that they could have possibly had him show up in, he's just done it all. He's been like the perfect player throughout this entire run. So it's far be it for me to say he doesn't deserve the consmite. I would just, if it trends the way that it's trending, I would go with Bob just based off of what, the way that he's propelled the rest of that team, including Kachuk, to relevance.

Well, the other thing is, you know, part of Abrowski's story is obviously, you know, the struggles the past couple years, not even being this team's goalie to start the postseason and then kind of coming out of nowhere to do this. Obviously, Cachuk doesn't have that argument going in his way because he finished top three in MVP voting this year. He had over 100 points last year as well. But from a playoff perspective, right? Like before this season, a lot of the narrative was, oh, well, this guy just like doesn't get it done in the playoffs despite the fact that he plays this gritty game. Beyond that. hat trick he hadn't game one against oilers last year he kind of was very unproductive and no showed that to a large extent which is why they wound up losing those final four games of that series previously he just hadn't produced his game hadn't translated to the postseason and then now he's the ultimate playoff player right and so it's interesting and and we should as new information presents itself we should like change our opinions on players like that's part of what happens every year you get a chance to rewrite the story that's what's so great about pro sports and about the playoffs, but at the same time, this isn't like, this is just a continuation of his career

arc. This is kind of also a new chapter for him as well. Yeah, right. And I mean, you also have to say, like, condolences to the, all Calgary Flames fans. This has got to be the most painful run ever. And also everyone's like, man, this guy is just the ultimate playoff player. I mean, while Calgary Flames fans are like, what? Like, just absolutely just devastating. Not only that. I mean, like, you look at what happened to Calgary this year. Yeah, like that hurts. But also having to watch Kachuk. Yeah, I'm sure that hurts. Also, I have to watch Jonathan Uberdo. Jonathan Uberdow. Correct. And then also

like Sam Bennett has got to hurt. Like there's so many pieces that are probably like just ripping and twisting the knife for Calgary Flames fans right now. But I also like the narrative for Bob has kind of changed too because like the narrative for Bob was that like the bottom always falls out

like halfway through a playoff run and that like he is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. So like if he is able to finish strong and put together an entire playoff run and then, you know, erase all the, the mockery that's been made of his contract. Like, I don't think they're a single person, like, regardless of how he plays from this point on, like from this playoff run on, you can't say that the contract was, if you, if you win a Stanley Cup on the back of unbelievable goaltending from a $10 million

gold tender, I don't care what he does for the rest of that contract. It's absolutely worth it. And, you know, it would be a really great redemption story for Bob having to endure all all the jokes that he's heard and sort of like all the... Why? Hold on. Having to endure being paid the amount he is? I think he's doing it. Like, obviously, yeah, like, he's still bashing checks at the end of the day. But, like, it affects you.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Everybody did mock him. And, like, a lot of it was for good reason. Like, he wasn't living up to that contract. Right. But if you win a Stanley Cup and you play the way that he's played, you've played, you, you earn the right to kind of hold up the middle finger and say, I told you so. And is it worth it

now? Probably, yeah. Okay, let's go to Vegas's perspective here, right? Because we mentioned kind of a list of names they have. So Ikel is a leader plus 375, Marsha, so plus 650. And then you get into Carlson plus 700,000, Aden Hill, plus 1,200. I think Ikel, from like a narrative perspective, he should be the favorite for this team because despite not scoring any goals in the West Final, he played very well, had a ton of chances, and it feels like if you believe in kind of the process, right, and like regression happening, I would feel good about his chances of converting on some of those in this series, scoring a bunch of goals, that being held up as him taking over when it matters most. And so if Vegas wins this series and he scores a bunch of goals, he also does

lead the team with 18 points this postseason as well despite that lack of goal scoring. Like he's going to have a very easy and appealing case for people to vote for. So it feels like he should probably be the favorite for this team, even despite the fact that his, you know, his linemate in Jonathan Marshall, though, has been the one actually scoring the goals for them in the past couple rounds. Yeah. And like, I don't know how well this plays to voter tendencies and stuff, but like the, the, how effective Eichel has been as a 200 foot player has been the thing.

for me. It's like he's sort of matured as a player and really kind of elevated himself from just like, okay, this is a flashy, exciting guy to a guy who does everything right. And like even when he's not really loud, he's doing all, all things right quietly. And I think that there is a lot of credit to be given for that. And I think that especially in this Golden Knight system, like he is such an integral part of how much success that they've had at the top of their lineup. And, you know, I do agree that, like, he's probably due to be a little bit louder in this series than he was in the West Final. And that would certainly help his cause.

But I also think from a narrative standpoint, like, it being his first playoff, him delivering for this team, him kind of, like, enduring the year, the down year that they had last year, coming back from the injury and getting back to this point, probably. helps his case as well. But I think from what we've seen, like Jonathan Marsha has a knack for just showing up in those big moments and like having those, those, you know, we talk about the lack of sexy moments for Vegas when they do have the sexy moments. He's usually at the center of them for for whatever reason. He always finds himself at the right place, the right time. And, you know, maybe that helps his case. I also think maybe from a narrative standpoint,

It helps his case that he is one of the original misfits. And there's a narrative to be made there about him, you know, having been there and then being able to finish the job this year. So, you know, the smart choice will probably end up leaning Eichel, but like maybe the sexier choice is Marcia So. The tired choice is Eichel, the wired choice is Marcia So. The inspired choice is William Carlson. Leads the Golden Knights of 10 goals at 5 on 5 this postseason. eight goals, three primary assists. His 5-15 assignments, round one, he plays 40% of his minutes against Kyle Connor and Pierluke Dubois, Vegas' top scoring line. Round two, he plays against Connor McDavid for

45% of his minutes. Round three, nearly 50% of his minutes against Robertson and Hins. In that time, Vegas is up 14 to 5 with him in the ice, and he hasn't taken a single penalty against any of those players. He's had the biggest impact on this run for Vegas so far. Now I have, assume in this series he's going to get a healthy dose of Kachuk's line as well. And I have no faith that voters would actually be able to think this way and see the case for what it is and vote accordingly. Like it's going to be either Eichol if he scores a lot of goals or Marsha's so if he does as well. But I really do believe that like if you watch these games, Carlson has had the biggest impact on this team because he's like single-handedly changing the game plan for everyone. Right. In round

too. Edmonton's like, we can't have Connor McDavid on the ice against this guy. So they're all of a sudden picking their spots on when they're using them, when they're using him. Around three, he's just making life, a living hell for Rupé Hins. Like, William Carlson has been absolutely outrageously good this postseason. And I wish that I had more faith that people would take stock of that. But I sadly, I sadly do not. Yeah, it's like given like Blake Coleman the cons might. No, come on. I know.

It's a bit of a stretch. But like, yeah, I mean, it's... He leads the team in goal scoring. Right. No, no. I'll play on it while playing the best defensive minutes of anyone in the league. Like, I... It is.

He may as well be a net. Like, I don't... Like, that's the only thing that he's... That's missing on his resume at this point. And, like, I think weirder than that is, like, it still seems somewhat quiet. And maybe it's because he doesn't really demand that much attention.

but like, I don't know. I think without like diving into it, a lot of people wouldn't say like William Carlson has been like, damn, what a playoff run. But like when you look deeper into it and like you said, with the matchup numbers and sort of like the quality of opponent ice time that he's getting, like it is insane that things are as lobsided as they are and he's had as much of an impact

as he has. Well, and also the not to take, like I think I'd like, I think Ikel's been awesome and like Marshall's has been wildly productive. A big reason why they're able to do that is because Carlson's just soaking up all of these minutes from the other team's best players and then all of a sudden they're getting to go up against second, third, both lines and produce offensively. And so that's not something that generally gets a lot of the attention. But once again, the people voting for this are people whose job it is to watch these games closely. So I would hope that that would be reflected. But that's not really what

sells clicks, right? That's like the biggest thing this time of year is that. if you can just send a line out there to neutralize, like, top opposing talent and then send your, and then separate your top talent from those guys and let them run free. But that's like, that's not, that's not what's happening here. He's not only neutralizing,

he's outproducing and just like, leading them in goals. Like, it is, there is a, a very strong case for him to be made to be the leader in the clubhouse for Vegas right now. I just don't see it in terms of like,

it's usually, a sexy award. The Kahn Smythe is usually a sexy award. Yeah, that's a shame because I feel like if you hold either players or fans from any of the three teams Vegas has played so far, I think they would unanimously vote that William Carlson kept them up at night the most out of any of these guys. Probably. Yeah. All right. Any other Kahn Smyth takes here, or do you think we should have kind of move on and put a bow on this? I don't know. I mean, like, Carter Hage at like plus $5,000. I know you would have to do a ton, but, like, Carter Hagee is so good.

And I just think, like, if you want to, like, sprinkle something on that, it's probably worth it. I don't know. Like, it, it would take a lot for him to jump Kachuk and Prabrovsky, obviously. But, like, what if Carter Hagege just goes off? Yeah, well, he also has more goals and bunches, right? So he does have that in his range of outcomes, and he doesn't play at 5-on-5, typically with Kachuk either.

if he goes off, it's not like Kachuk will be banking a lot of the credit with that as well. So that is interesting. I think it would take a very high scoring series where both goalies struggle and then he does it. It is. And I think that would be a great outcome because we're talking about the entertainment value. Right. If we reach that outcome, that means it was one heck of a ride along the way. So I wouldn't mind that at all.

I like that. Okay. One mailback question, Matt asks, Tage. and to that we say Tage Tage. All right Pete I'll let you plug some stuff

here on the way out let the listeners know where they can check you out what you're working on these days, all that good stuff. Yeah, so I'm going to be covering the final in the draft for Valley Sports

so Balletsports.com is where that'll end up and then the Valley Regionals as well in terms of the TV networks and then keep an eye on my stuff in my like Twitter or whatever

Pete Blackburn on Twitter. This summer, I've got some cool stuff that's in the works, getting ready to launch, like, a very big project, undisclosed. A little tidbit there. I'm doing a very big project launching late summer, early fall that I'm very, very, very, very excited about and will kind of be like my main thing moving forward. So quite excited about that.

Well, keeping it mysterious is a great way to peak people's interest. So yes, I like that promotional tactic. All right, man, this is a blast. We'll reconvene sometime in the summer to kickstart the, we'll re-kickstart the Tage Thompson fan club and I get our jean jackets going for next season. So looking forward to that. Enjoy the Stanley Cup final. We'll chat then.

And we'll be back tomorrow with another episode of the HockeyPedio cast as always streaming on the Sports Night Radio Network.