The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 114: Do As I Say, Not As I Do

Episode Date: November 11, 2016

Mike Johnson joins the show to discuss what the New York Islanders need to do to make sure they keep John Tavares, playing through early season shooting percentage fluctuations, and what he looks for when tuning in to a game. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:50 Deep dive on the New York Islanders struggles 10:35 Why do teams keep passing on P.A. Parenteau types? 14:27 Is the East better than the West right now? 17:10 Buying into teams exceeding preseason expectations 22:01 Young players having no leverage 27:45 Playing through a hot or cold streak 31:40 What to watch for when watching a game This episode is brought to you by Freshbooks, an online accounting service designed to save time and help avoid all of the stresses that come with running a small business. They’re currently offering a free 30-day trial to listeners of our show at Freshbooks.com/PDOcast (just remember to enter “Hockey PDOcast” in the ‘How You Heard About Us’ section). Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed straight from this website. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews of the show are greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family. Expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It is literally made to chill.

Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast.

My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and joining me for the first time this season belatedly. It's been tough making our schedules work, but we're finally here. It's Mike Johnson, a crowd favorite. Mike, what's going on, then? Not too much, and who would have thought that we'd have a hard time connecting, really? I mean, I'm not that busy, are we? No, and I mean, all we do is watch hockey and talk about it for a living.

I think there's worse things we could do. Yeah, exactly, and yet it does seem to take up many hours in the day, so what are you going to do? But, yeah, I'm all set. I'm ready to go, so I've been trying to pay attention, because I know you always like to ask some good questions. So I'll see where we got to you today. All right, yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

So let's just get right into it. The first thing I wanted to talk to you about, I wanted to do a little bit of a deep dive on the New York Islanders because we don't really talk about that much. I don't know, for whatever reason, they're just not really on the forefront. If we're ever talking about a New York team, it's generally the Rangers.

But I think that, you know, it's worth kind of looking into what's happened with this team because I remember two years ago, their future looked immensely bright. I mean, they had one of the best up-and-coming young teams, and they had all these guys. They lost for so long that they'd accumulated all this young talent in the draft, and it looked like they were finally going to enjoy the fruits of their labor,

and they pushed the capitals to seven games. And then last year, they finally won a playoff series for the first time in like 20 years. So that was a big win for them. But this year, they're an abomination, honestly. I mean, they're the worst possession team in the league at 5-on-5. They have a losing record. You know, they're, I think they're the second worst team in the East right now. Have you watched them at all?

And do you kind of have an idea of what's going on? them? I have seen them, unfortunately. We have to watch all the games. So occasionally, you do have to watch them. I mean, I think they have issues really kind of from the top down, like all layers of their organization. They have new owners, which is a good thing because they're engaged and they want to do the right thing. But they have this arena issue, which is going on right now, which they can get out of their lease in Brooklyn. They can stay into it. They have the wrong kind of piping in their compressor unit. It's not to regulation, so it can't get the ice cold enough. So the ice from all reports is horrendously bad in Brooklyn, which doesn't help maybe some of your more skilled players. The coach and the GM don't seem to be on the same page when Capuano just last week said on the effect of,

you know, where am I getting the goals from? We lost 150-something points, and we don't have guys who can score, which kind of tells you that the coach doesn't like the team that the GM put in front of them. But then eventually it trickles all the way down to the players. And I think they've been searching for someone to play with John Tavares for years. He had a good run with Matt Moulton and PA Parental. Like that's the last time it almost seems like he had a consistent guy for a couple of years

that they all seem to get along and play well together. They made their choices this summer, right, to get him some wingers, get Andrew Ladd. they signed an aging guy who we know, or you know, goal rates were going down, a primary assist rates going down, shot rates going down. A lot of the indicators of his game tailing off were there. Now, he's still a good player, but he's, I think, the last three years, he's getting a little bit worse every season,

and he's in his 30s to sign of a seven-year deal to play with your franchise centerman. Maybe not the most astute signing. even if you like his intangibles, whatever he's won, he's a good guy. I get all that, and he is, and he has. But the numbers would tell you in big time roles, he wasn't trending the right direction. So that was a mistake. They went with the value ad signing of PA Parenthood

to round out the right side on that line. I didn't mind that. Given the money that they paid them, and given what PA does, which is produce points, score of goals, his goals per 60 rates are really good, had 20 last year on a pretty bad team in Toronto I like that signing.

He didn't make it through training camp. He waved, and now he's in New Jersey, scoring goals playing with their top six. So, you know, I think they had a plan to address their number one line, and they were not able to. So I think that was, something that had gone wrong badly

to start the season. And the other part is they had this core group you talked about some of the guys you thought would make them a really good team. You know, Anders Lee, Brock Nelson, Ryan Strom, these young guys would eventually mature, get better, take strides and become really good second, third-line players. Even Kulamint and Grabowski, which I know can be debatable about their effectiveness,

but Grabowski's been a pretty solid production player when healthy. And all those guys, almost across the board, except for me Brock Nelson, has taken a step back and not been great this year. So that's going to be an issue with our forwards. Top line's not working. There's depth guys. It's not going well. We've heard the agent,

Alan Walsh, of Yawislav Halak, expressed his concern over three goalie rotation. That doesn't work. And I think Yarslau is a better goaler than he's played this year. He's a better goalie than he's probably given credit for most years. I think he's a periphery top 10 goalie, which is probably a little bit higher than most people have them. But he's been good in his.

career at a few different stops, but they're not happy there. He's not happy. Bryce, J.F. Barouba, who they refuse to risk by putting him on waivers, even though he's only played a handful of games in two years because of the three-goly system,

there's a lot of stuff that aren't going, that's not going well there at all the different levels. Yeah. Well, I had someone asked me a few days ago, that's why I wanted to discuss it with you. Like, who's to blame? Is it more Capuano or Garza?

Snow and I think they're both to blame a little bit, right? Like from Garth Snow's perspective, I mean, I understand letting Kyle Kohl's a walk. He's entering his late 20s and you didn't want to give him the sort of seven-year term that he got, which is fine. I mean, the Islanders have been known not to necessarily want to spend that kind of money, but then you just go around and basically give the same contract too. What I'd argue is is a worst player at this point of their respective careers who's aging more rapidly. Like, it just didn't really make sense there. And then you bring in parental for cheap, which I loved, which you mentioned, but then you just kind of let him go for no reason because you want to keep those three goalies. And then from,

from Capriano's perspective, you know, keeping guys like Matt Barzal and Anthony Bovier in the press box rather than playing them. And then now they finally sent Barzal down. And then, you know, you have guys like Cal Clutterbuck playing with John Tavares. Like, it just seems like a complete mess there. And the scary thing is, I mean, you know, they're five, six and two. But honestly, like, it could be worse. I mean, they have the fourth highest shooting percentage in the league. So it's like, if this continues, you know, there's even reason to believe it's going to get worse. for them, which is kind of scary. But I think that the kind of more interesting thing here from a big picture perspective is from Tavares, because as you mentioned, they've had difficulty

finding complementary talent for him. And right now, I don't think that Josh Bailey and Cal Clutterbuck is going to get it done long term. So if you're Tavares, I mean, you're coming up as a UFA after next season, like, why would you realistically want to sign with the Islanders, beyond just kind of loyalty and it being the familiar thing for you? Because you're going to be entering, you're going to be 28 years old, the window on your individual prime as a star player is sort of shrinking. And I haven't really seen anything from this organization to suggest that they're going to be able to set him up for success in the twilight of his prime career here.

So like, if you're him, wouldn't you want to explore other options? Yeah. I mean, I think you're right. I'm bang on all of it. But you're right. Except for that, the sense I guess from John DeVarrett, who I know but not well, is that he is a pretty loyal guy,

and maybe that would resonate more with him than it might, with me. I would be inclined to like, I'm probably not. I'm going to go find the best situation and find the best spot where I have a chance of winning, and if that's the island, then that's great, because that's a bonus,

but if it's not, then I would have no problem leaving. He strikes me as a guy where that maybe means more to him to take that franchise from where it was when they picked him first overall and take them to success deep as the playoffs, but, you know, he's looking at it and he's like, well, where's, where's that, where's that success going to come from? What players are going to step in here are going to help me? Is this the management coaching combo that is going to direct this group to that kind of success?

And I think you have to, both John, his agent, his advisor, his family, all of it, anyone who's got his ear would have to say, you know, are you sure? Because you're going to lock up another eight years here, even though they'll pay you, a ton of money, so will everybody. So let's take a good look as to where we're going because to be good in the NHL, you have to draft well and then you have to develop well. And it appears as though the islanders

have not done a masterful job of development. And the Stromes, the Nelsons, the Lees, those kind of players, are they turning into really good players or are they underachieving a lot? Even Josh Bailey, to go way back, he's not young anymore, as a guy who probably you thought would have done more in an NHL career than he has.

So all areas are concerned, now they have two years to figure it out before Tavares can leave, and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves into a Steve Stamco's-like chase. But it's not something that's lost on to John or the Islanders, that matter. I mean, their new owner is said he's going to do everything he has to sign him. Tavares will never leave this organization. So he's got him in his corner anyways. Yeah, I mean, the interesting thing is I think that at this point, at least, Tavares is a better player than Stamco's is, and he's in a worse situation than Stamco's was. So like it seems like that it should be, you know, an insane, like it should be the biggest story next season. But hopefully, yeah, I'd love to see Tavares stay with Islanders and get that team to where they need to be. So hopefully they provide him with the support that he needs. But you mentioned Parenthood earlier. And he's a classic example of one of these players that I can't really seem to figure out because, you know, for someone like myself, I look at his numbers and all his rate stats, as you mentioned, and he produces remarkably well,

especially considering both the ice time he's receiving and the money the team's paying him. But for whatever reason, he keeps bouncing around the league and just teams keep letting him go for worse options. I mean, he's flamed out of Colorado, Montreal. The Leafs chose to let him go so they could sign Matt Martin for more money and more term. And then the Islanders cut him again for no real kind of obvious reason. And, you know, there's other guys like this. I mean, like a Brad Boy's guy is another guy like that who people have always wondered, why he can't seem to stick and have more solid footing in the league because his numbers would suggest that he should.

Like, I don't know, do you think he's just like one of these things where is there just something behind the scenes that we're not privy to or is it, you know, these guys aren't like the most, the flashiest, most impressive looking players.

So unless you're actually looking at those rate stats and looking at all the deeper numbers, you're just not really appreciating what they're bringing to the table. Um, I think it's probably all that. I mean, it's never quite so obvious as well, teams aren't smart enough to figure it out.

Even though I think there are some, cases where they're not. But I think because of the way he plays, which you probably have to dig deeper in the numbers to look like, hey, well, he's pretty productive.

Given what you were asking to do, given the role he's playing and who he's playing with, he produced it. Better than an average player would in that spot and certainly good value for his dollar. You know, he's not big, he's not fast, he doesn't bump into anyone, he doesn't appear to be particularly defensive-minded.

So at first blush, you might like, well, if I'm going to decide it's got to be a score, he doesn't score outrageously well. So I'm going to go find someone else who can either give me that speed, flash, physicality, defense, or someone I think will score more. And then realizing after the fact, well, it's going to cost us way more. And so for value-wise, you're not going to get it. And maybe, well, we may find a guy who's more physical, i.e. Matt Martin, I'm not sure if he helps us win. And that's an ongoing discussion that is not only PA-P-A parental base. And then there's some of it's behind the scenes. Like I know in Montreal, him and the coaching staff did not get along at all.

So we really had nothing to do with him on the ice. It was more just personality clashes with coaches. And that happens too. So there's a variety of reasons. But I remember when he signed in the honors, I'm like, that's a really smart fit. That's a good place for the honors to look to. And it's a good place for PA. And then I was stunned when he was put on waivers.

And he's been a good fit for Jersey, given what they're asking him to do and given what they're paying him. So, I mean, it's never quite as obvious as just a simple answer, but it's lots of different stuff contributing to him bouncing around. But wherever he lands, he does the same thing. So he's not just situational dependent. Like one time he did, he had good rates. it's different teams on different roles and different systems with different coaches, and he keeps on producing, which is all you're really asking and expecting out of them. Yeah, I mean, when the Islanders put him back on waivers, I looked around at who could pick him

up possibly, and I was like, yeah, this totally seems like a devil sort of thing where he's going to, you know, score 15 goals or something for them in the first half of the season, and they're going to wind up getting like either like a late first or a second round pick or a prospect or something for him at the deadline. It's like, it was like the most obvious thing. And sure enough, I mean, you know, right now he has five goals. He'd be leading the islanders in goal scoring. Exactly. He's the least Anthonyak special.

Good enough to add value and play with your good players, but not so good that your organization too is committed to him long term, and you keep flipping him and flipping him, and he keeps playing well elsewhere. So, you know, it's a transient career he's having here late in it, but he's still playing, he's still playing well.

Yep. Okay, big picture of you of the league. I was looking at the standings and kind of trying to figure out. out what's going on right now. And the Eastern Conference, at least in my opinion, honestly, looks, I don't know if it's, you know, saying better or maybe more difficult, especially deeper than the Western Conference this season. And I can't remember the last time you could really see that or even make that argument. I mean, obviously at the top, you still have teams

like the Blues and the Sharks and they're playing really well. But nine out of the top 13 possession teams this year are out east. And by comparison, it was basically flipped last year, eight of the top 13 we're out west. So I don't know, like, am I crazy? Is it just an early season thing? Or do you think that we've seen some of these Western conference teams kind of dip, whether it's the ducks or the Blackhawks look like they have some kind of chinks in their armor or, you know, the stars and the predators have struggled early on and then out east you have. I mean, the Metro division up top looks like it's going to be very, very tough to kind of manage for the other teams in there. So is the East better than the West or am I being crazy?

No, I don't think you are because I think, well, a variety of reasons. But I think this, This year, yes, I'm with you that the East is in fact better than the West. In large part, because the bottom teams in the East, which always drag the East down to make it, you know, the Buffalo and Toronto and Carolina and Columbus, these teams are better. They're better now. They're more difficult to play against where you still have some teams in the West. I think unquestionably Vancouver is the worst team in the league. Arizona is still in transition. Colorado with the new coach is still a bit

of a work in progress, which might be a nice way to put it. And then Chicago is a bit older. You know, there is just more stuff. L.A. is older, not quite as good, I don't think. So, yeah, I think it's flipped. I think the east is a bit deeper. The bottom is a bit stronger, and they do have a legit, certainly those teams

in top of the metro, you know, pit, wash, or even the Rangers, they look like they're the real deal. Yep. And then the Atlantic, obviously, the lightning are going to be as good as ever. And then as long as price is healthy, I don't think.

Yeah, they'll be good. Yeah, no, it's, the East looks really good. I think that, you know, I mentioned the stars and the predators and they really struggled out of the gate. I think that for the stars especially, it's been injury base, so you could kind of make that as an excuse.

And I don't know for the predators, what you'd point to, like whether it's just going to take them some time to mesh all this talent or what. But at what point, you know, early on in the season we keep saying like, you know, it's still early, it's still early. For you, what point do we have to reach in the season where you kind of, you know, take stuff more seriously and have legitimate concern? Whether teams are either struggling or, let's say a team like the Oilers or the Rangers that's playing better than we thought and you kind of give them more credit.

I always felt as a player, kind of around 20 games. Once you got out of the teams, into the 20s, you're, you know, you're well into the middle of the tail end of November. there's that U.S. Thanksgiving cutoff date, but a lot of people like to cite as a marker of whether or not you're going to be in the playoffs. Because I think after 20 games, you've had a chance to work out any, you know, new season issues. You've dealt with, you know, a couple road trips

and different things of that nature, maybe some difficulties, some good times. You know, injuries will come and go as they please, but they kind of tend to even themselves out throughout the league. So I always felt 20 games was kind of time, I'm okay, let's take stock here, we're a quarter of the way through, where are we? And maybe most importantly, why? Like, why are we here?

And if you're Dallas, you can say, yeah, we have a lot of injuries. But does that mean, well, I love Dallas and I want them to keep playing the way they are because it's so much fun? Like with all those injuries, they have five or six of their top nine forwards out. Maybe you can't play the same way. Maybe you can't have success asking fourth-liners or minor league guys to step in and play the same way you're asking Patrick Sharp to play. I wish that wasn't the case, but I'm not sure if you can do that

because maybe they just can't convert and make those skill plays. And when trying to, they leave themselves vulnerable going the other way. You know, that might be one where, you know, you kind of need to make an adjustment on the fly as far as changing the way you play because of the injuries. But yeah, the quarter mark for me, 20 games is always when, okay, this is legit, which turns me to Edmonton because I start to look,

they started out really well and I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, I'm still not sure. I have a hard time buying into exactly that they're that good. But I think what we've learned in their early stretch is that Connor McDavid is that good. And when he's on the ice, everybody's awesome. So if you're fortunate enough to play with McDavid as a winger or even as a defenseman,

you know, a lot of people like to check out Adam Larson's numbers and like, well, look how well, look how well, he's doing. Look how well he's doing McDavid's on the ice and look how well he does when he's not. And that to me is one of the biggest stories that McDavid is as good as he is. And he appears to be the kind of guy that can lift an entire team. Whatever stats you want to look at or maybe most importantly for Evanston, whatever the standing, I think he's that good. Yeah. I think that that's the rare, like that's the highest level of praise you can give a star in the league, right? It's like there's a lot of guys who can kind of get their own

and they can produce since they're in the perfect situation but then once you reach that level where like pretty much everyone you play with is just instantly better just because they're on the ice with you like that's, there's probably like 10 guys' tops in the league that you can really say that about and it be true so that it's pretty crazy to see that he's played like 60 games in his career

so far and he's already there. Yeah you look at those sort of the the Huawei numbers for Evanston and with McDavid they're awesome. Everyone looks so good and then you get without you and they're not nearly the same. So I'm

you know, they're coming up, they're played 14 games whenever it's been. They're in first place in the Pacific. It appears with the Kings and John McQuick that maybe there's something there to be had. But he is, he is really, he's a special generational

kind of guy as advertised, I guess. We were told this. We knew he was this good, but he is showing it on the ice and in it. And in any kind of that you want to look at. He's offering it up. He gives up a lot, but he creates so, so much. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, Patrick Maroon must be loving life right now. He's just playing with him and Jordan Emberley. And basically, all he has to do, just go to the net and keep your stick on the ice and good things will happen. Yeah, I mean, well, that might be simplifying a little bit.

Yeah, a little bit, of course. He's got some decent hands around there. But yeah, but yeah, like, legitimately, you know, I think I'd have to check, but Patrick Maroon's probably a guy who's contract up in a year or two. Like, you can hit your wagon to McDavid for half a season. You get 40 games with him. I mean, you're going to get yourself 15 goals and 15 assists and really set yourself up to, to, you know, have a life-altering kind of contract, perhaps, or at least career altering where you get a little security in some term that you might otherwise not get,

just because you're playing with him. You're playing on the third line with Drake Cajula and Pooley-R-V. You're not getting those points. You're not getting those numbers. where you go can do it with McDavid and show that you can produce when he gives it to you, you put yourself in a good spot.

Yeah, yeah. No, well, okay, so speaking about contracts, it's a good pivot because I did want to ask you as a former player, what your thoughts are when you see young players like a Jacob Truba or a Hampus Linholm kind of, you know, being held hostage in a sense where they ultimately have to wind up signing

for way less than they really deserve or their play warrants. And it's always funny because, you know, if you see fans of teams online, mind, you know, they always seem to take the billionaire side and the team side and get on the case of the player wanting to make more money, even though it's kind of, it seems very ironic considering how much money the team and the owner have to begin with and what they're haggling over. But I don't know, just like when you see something like that, what are your initial

thoughts? Um, I mean, I think it's, I think it pretty practical view of it. Um, you know, the CBA is what it is. And if you're an educated player, if you understand the CBA and you understand the CBA and you understand pressure points and who has and what you can use to get the best contract you can, then you understand when you have leverage and when you don't. And, you know, both those guys are Lynn Holman and Truba. Trubba specifically, I mean, he is an excellent player across the board numbers. You could argue he's maybe the best all-round defenseman on Winnipeg. Foxy, you don't have to argue it.

I think he is better than Dustin. in Bufflin. But you also know that if the team is willing to sit there and lose a year of your service, there's nothing really you can do. There's no way until you have arbitration rights that you can force them to pay you what you think you're worth. All you can do is hope that they struggle without you and appreciate your value and aren't willing to risk that.

And I think Kevin Sheffled Day off to his credit, I mean, listen, it's easy to say, you know what, oh, we're off a shaky start, we're giving up lots of chances. We have holes in our defense. Let's go sign them or let's trade them for whoever because we need something. it's harder to dig in and be like, no, we're not going to. We're not going to let the player dictate what we do with our assets while we control them, and we're not going to let him determine exactly the contract that he gets. So I understand it from just a practical.

It's not the time when players have leverage. If you want to get paid what you're worth, as soon as you can file for arbitration file, you're going to get paid what you're worth. I mean, you might have to do it year after year after year, but as long as you're playing well enough to earn whatever your contract is said, you'll get it. Now, that takes a tremendous amount of self-belief and betting on yourself over and over

and factoring injuries and all those other things, but that will get you your dollars. So it's a tough spot for those guys coming out of their rookie deals, and when they see a lot of the other teams around the league, their other peer group, age group, getting these contracts that are not bridge deals, at all. They're six, seven years and they're five, six, seven million dollars.

It's hard not to say, hey, well, why would I not get that as well? But you got to read your situation. You know, Linholm knows he plays for a budget team, tons of defense. You know, they can't afford to go over the can. They didn't want to be near the cap, let alone right up against it. So there's only so much

he can do. And for Truba, Trubo's surprising, though, because it seemed as though he did get his feet, right? Like, he doesn't want to, it's not about Winnipeg, it's not even about the money. It's just about playing or the position I want to play in. So if that's all it's about, that didn't change. I didn't read anything worth that,

okay, now Tyler Myers is playing left so you can play right. But that's not changed. And yet he signed a deal that even on a short-term deal, to me is way low for him. And maybe there's something behind the scenes that we don't know about where they say come back and play, we'll do our best to accommodate you on our timetable and not on yours.

Maybe there's something in it like that because that at least would make the contract make a little, bit more sense to me. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a tricky spot, right? Because, I mean, it's good for the teams to get these players back. And I think for us as fans, it's nice that we get to watch them play because they make the product better. But man, remember stuff like this when we're missing the start of the 2019, 2020 season because of a lockout because like it's stuff like this where the players are going to want more leverage and, and they're going to want to be more in control of their, of their, you know, of their future. Because it's such a, it's such a weird thing to me

that Truba basically, I think even the Ducks more example, because they're a good team that fancies themselves a contender, and they were just willing to wait the first couple weeks of the season without their best defensemen, and they were just throwing away games just to kind of get him on that contract that they wanted, which they inevitably wound up getting. So I think it's just a really tough spot for everyone involved. It is. It is.

You know, you've got a hard time, and your point's well made. Like, you know, hard time getting much sympathy from fans or the general public. Like, really, you're holding out for. You know, you don't want to get paid 4.5. You want to get paid 4.75. But, you know, you have to get what you can while you can get it. So, yeah, it's, it's, it is. It's a part of the game.

But I think the players appreciate what's going on. You know, they understand. There's no hard feelings. Both guys will be welcomed back in their locker room and life will go on. And players generally turn the page pretty quickly and just kind of get back to playing and put that behind them. until the next guy signs and you're like, wait a second, why's he making more than me? Why is he making more than me?

And then every summer he'd be kind of would be grading. You're like, reminder that you maybe are slightly less than your market value. Yeah, yeah. We're still at the point of the season where, you know, teams haven't played that many games. Like everyone's played around 12 games or so. So, you know, there's some wonky numbers out there. I mean, there's some guys that are scoring goals and bunches, whether it was Richard Panic at the start of the year.

or Arteminissimo or these guys you wouldn't expect to be scoring a lot of goals. And a lot of it is because they're shooting like 25, 30 percent or whatever. And we know that that's not going to continue. But I think, and other end of the spectrum, there's guys like a Max Patch Ready, for example, I saw people today are like wondering where his goals are. He only has two goals this year. It's like, well, he's like a 12% shooter for his career and he's shooting 5% this year. So I feel like that would kind of explain a lot of it.

But it's easy for us from the outside to look at stuff like that and just be like, you know, give it time. It's going to even out. but we never really discussed the player's perspective. Let's say you're a guy who is known to score goals and you start off the year of the first 12 games and the puck's just not going into the net for you for whatever reason. Do you think that that would impact the way you're going to play,

whether you're going to be playing more aggressive or more tentative in the offensive zone with the puck? Or do you think it's just, especially if you've been around for so long and you know what you're capable of, you just kind of have to sit back and just let it happen organically? Well, if you asked me that in all, August, I take the letter. You know what? I know I'm a good player. I'm getting chances. I know my shooting percentage is three times lower than my career. So, you know, things will work

out. I'll get hot. I'll score 10 goals and 12 games and my numbers will all work themselves out. And it will seem very clinical and make a lot of sense and totally believable, even by me at that moment in August. Ask me in November when I got two and 14 and I'm ripping my stick and every time I go to the grocery store, everyone's like, there's Max Patcher Eddie. You can't score. What's my hour with this guy? Then it doesn't, it's not so easy to like just be like, well, you know, hang on. Be patient. You know, it'll all work itself out because it always has and always will. There are moments where in the middle of the season when you're struggling, it feels like you may never score again. and no, that's not true, but that's how it feels sometimes.

And that's where the element of confidence, which is so important, but different for everybody, as far as how much each guy carries, how much each guys will fluctuate, how quickly it will erode. You know, there's some guys like Mike Comrie I played with, and he went through some good years and some bad years. He never, for a second, he could go 20, five games without a goal, and he never for a second would not believe he was going to score the next time out. And you'd have a guy like me. If I went five games without scoring,

I would get rattled by it, completely turned around. So everybody deals with it differently. And for the record, I went five games without scoring an awful lot. So you don't need to remind me everyone on Twitter. I get it. I had tricks like that all the time, but it weighed on me a lot. So, yeah, it's a lot easier to convince yourself and make sense to yourself when you're not going through those difficult times as opposed to when you are because when you're going through then now you're watching tape and you're shooting more

and you're thinking out there and should I be here should I be there? Do I start cheating? Look at more offense. Instead of just playing the same way you always have which has given you the numbers you always get which are really, really good. That's where coaches, wives, parents,

captains, team psychologists, all of it help remind you of these factors trying to control the urge to panic when things aren't going well. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's kind of one of those things where it's easy to give someone else advice about their own problems or whatever. But once it's kind of happening in your life and it's affecting everything,

it's much tougher to take a kind of calm, cool, calculated approach to it. Absolutely. Do as I say, not as I do. Yeah. It's the hallmark of my parenting abilities like it, for sure. Mike, one final thing before I let you go. A common question I get from listeners. readers is, you know, they ask me, they obviously don't have enough time to watch as many games

as you are and I, I probably would on any given night, but they ask, okay, if I'm tuning into a game, you know, is there any specific thing I should look out for, whether it's a, you know, a team, the systems they're playing or a player, you know, his traits or, or anything that's going on in the ice, if you turn around on, let's say a random game with two teams and, you know, is there anything you're looking for in particular or do you just kind of sit back and just wait for something obvious to pop off the page and then you focus in on it a bit more. Oh, I think that's a really good question. There are moments if I was like prepping to do a game where I'll have already done some research of what's going on

and identify trends that I'm trying to spot and that would make, that would impact the game I'm about to do. And so I watch for that, whether it's penalty kill issues, whether it's breakouts, whether it's a particular player doing well, why is he doing well, why is he not? doing well. Maybe you dig in some of the stats and find out, you know, I remember talking about Rick Nash a couple of years ago and, oh, this notion, he's not going to the net. I'm like, well, it looks to me when I look, he's never shot from closer. I'm not sure if he's not going, you know what I mean? Like, you kind of find numbers and support your assertions or just prove them or whatever it might be. But when I'm just watching generally, like, I'm in the

studio tonight. I got 10 games on in front of me. You know, I'll watch kind of a blank slate and see what pops out and try to understand why and try to explain why to myself as I watch it and think about what I would have done in that situation or how I would have seen it and if it's different, the same and then kind of make my observations from there. So it's kind of case by case, but yeah, I just kind of watch it as it develops

and whatever strikes me as interesting and then I'll either fact check going back to support what I'm seeing or disprove it or I'll know the facts beforehand, then I'll see what I see supports or disproves what I think the numbers tell me. Yeah, no, that's interesting because obviously if you have a trained eye and you've been in your entire life,

it's a lot easier to kind of pick stuff out. But for myself, what I like to do is, you know, I like to kind of play around with some of the numbers and identify trends, whether it's, you know, for players, you know, playing over his head or over a team is struggling. And then when I watch them, I circle back to it. And I try to see if there's a visible reason

why that's the case. If there's something in the play that's happening, I'd still suggest why that's happening. And generally, once you kind of focus in on that, it becomes a lot clearer and it starts to make more sense. So I think that's the advice I'd give the listeners out there. MJ, thanks for taking the time to come on the show, man. I'm a bit kind of sad that it took this long for you to come on,

but better late than ever, I guess. Absolutely. You know where I am? I'm not going anywhere, so we'll do it again soon. Absolutely, man. We'll chat soon, okay? Bye.