The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 117: Las Vegas Golden Insights

Episode Date: November 24, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss the newly minted list of expansion draft exempt players, how it affects the decision-making process for various teams between now and the trade deadline, and certain notable names to keep an eye on. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 5:00 Expansion Draft Rules 11:30 How can the Ducks keep all of their defensemen? 16:00 Are the Blue Jackets goalies in play? 18:45 What do the Wild do with Jonas Brodin? 22:00 Which young forward are the Rangers willing to part with? 25:40 Can Vegas double dip with the Lightning? 31:40 What do the Penguins do with Marc-Andre Fleury? 34:00 Will the Red Wings stay loyal? Every episode of this podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher and can also be streamed straight from this website. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews of the show are greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and joining me as my good buddy Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, man? I am fairly pumped today, as I'm sure you are, with U.S. Thanksgiving, as we're both closet football nerds in addition to being hockey nerds. Yeah, I mean, Cowboys fans at that, so I'm sure everyone is just vomiting inside their own mouse right now. I mean, it's funny because I generally don't like to talk too much about football,

especially online just because, you know, people stick to hockey and all that stuff. But it's like one of those things where I've been trying to dig up proof that I've actually been a Cowboys fan during the past few miserable years, just so it's not, you know, oh, well, of course you're a Cowboys fan now that they're one of the best teams in the league. Well, I own a Tony Romo jersey that no longer fit,

so that's my best proof that I've been on board for a little while. Yes, yeah, that's pretty good. So I knew I had to have you on, because whenever there's something going on in the league that's generating serious discussion and buzz and warrants, an inside man with a scoop, you're the go-to guy for the hockey p.do cast. So I'm obviously talking about all the stuff going on

with the Vegas Golden Knights, and I feel like there's a lot for us to unpack here. There is. It's been an interesting couple weeks. A lot of happenings and GMs getting a better sense of the expansion draft. Obviously, Vegas now has a name and an identity. And I think there's a lot of focus in every front office on how to best prepare for this expansion draft and, you know, try to limit your exposure, I guess, in terms of losing a good player. Well, it's feeling much more real now just because obviously we have the logo and the name to visualize so it kind of you know we can attach that to the whole concept of it but also the fact that NHL sent out a list of uh of exempt players which is i think 66 names long that you

wrote about yesterday so it kind of also provides us with a another point to work off of just figuring out which guys actually will need to be protected and won't and how that'll work yeah and you know the one thing i think people have to understand about this that maybe haven't delved into it much is that it wasn't a it wasn't a straightforward call i mean certainly in some cases it was. Some players just have a full no-move clause. There's nothing sort of tricky about the language in their contract, and those players always knew they were going to be protected,

and they're on that list. But there were a number of guys around the league that have no moves that either change over the course of their deal or weren't written as airtight as some others, and individual rulings had to be made between the NHL and NHLPA and looking at those deals and discussing, I guess, what the precedent is, what the spirit of the contract was, and whether they would be protected in there.

There was a couple, I would say, minor surprises, small surprises among both guys that were included on the list and a few that weren't. Yeah, yes, definitely. Well, and another thing to note that I think is going to be fascinating sort of shaping how all this is going to turn out is that, you know, obviously we still have the rest of this season and the trade deadline in particular. And I think while the trade deadline always has an appeal to it and a bunch of interests surrounding it this year especially, it will just be fascinating to see which teams kind of, you know, just, go, you know what, we have a chance to win the cup this year and let's try to do it. And, you know, if that means losing a player this summer that we'd like to keep moving forward,

well, that's kind of the price of doing business. Or if a lot of teams are going to be kind of nervous about that and we'll view the expansion draft on the horizon and make moves accordingly just so they can sort of finagle protecting everyone they really want to. Yeah, you're right. And I think that we're going to see a lot of strange deals or deals when you first see them flash across your Twitter account or wherever you learn about them that don't. make a lot of sense and in the wider context of the expansion draft, they will. And, you know,

there will be a little bit of time, I guess, after the Stanley Cup is handed out and before June 17th, when the teams have to submit their protected list. So, so you might still see a few moves that happened just before the expansion draft begins. But, you know, I think a lot of teams have March 1st more circled as when they want to have their house in order and, you know, really knowing which players that they're going to expose. And as I mentioned, you know, there's a few cases where teams, I think, are going to have to make moves to really make sure they're not losing something for nothing that they really value in this process. So, you know, it's, what, I guess, about 10 weeks, give or take until the trade deadline. And as I mentioned, the GMs

were in Toronto last week, and there's already a lot of talk about this, a lot of strategizing going on about how best to have your team positioned to make sure that the expansion draft doesn't hurt you too much. Are you, like, preemptively, like, loading up on your sleep just because you You can forecast on the horizon that you won't be getting much during that period. I'm trying to, but I'm sure, like, for everybody who loves it, like we do, it's so hard to get sleep during the season. I mean, there's just games all the time, and I don't know. This is the best life there is for me. So I always try to get my sleep where I can, but it's pretty few and far between until the summer.

Yeah. Okay, so let's go over the quick kind of ground rules just so we make sure I runs on the same page. So basically, Vegas is going to have to fill between 43.8 and 73, million dollars worth of the cap space. They must select one player from every team. They can't buy out any guy that they wind up selecting until the following summer. And then, you know, there's the club protection rules of it's eight skaters and a goalie, basically for each team.

And then first and second year pros and players with no move clause are exempt. So with that and out of the way, I think that before we actually kind of go sort of team by and bring up the interesting scenarios, I think the question if you're building this Vegas team, if you're George McPhee is, can you afford to approach it with a long-term perspective where you play it smart and collect cheap young assets and really just kind of bide your time? Or is it one of those things where, you know, you're a professional hockey team in Vegas, you need to bring in some more household brand names that will potentially draw fans to the building and get excitement going and make you competitive right from the jump?

Or is it, I guess, possible to do a little bit of both without necessarily sacrificing one or the other? And I don't think that George has answered that question yet. I mean, certainly I would love to know what he was thinking when Bill Foley was on stage this week and said that he wants them to win a cup in six years because, you know, let's face it, there's no precedent whatsoever for that in any prior expansion. And even though there's been a lot of, you know, sort of public talk that this is going to be the best expansion draft ever, the more I look at it, the more skeptical I am that they're going to get a lot of, you know, what we would call pieces that are going to help them be a winner right away.

I mean, maybe they'll get lucky in one or two guys will slip through the crash. but it's going to be difficult. And the other added sort of wrinkle that has never existed in the past is that salary floor that you referenced. And they're going to obviously have to take on some salary. They can't all just collect, you know, players that are whatever, that we would say maybe help add value around the margins or our young players that haven't got much of a chance in other organizations in the NHL.

I mean, they're going to have to bring on some significant cap hits. And, you know, I'm sure that they're mindful of not wanting to, to, to, to, get too many guys that are going to give them problems down the road that are going to be contracts are desperate to get rid of you know two or three years in yeah well i over on tsn uh frank sarabelli and krageli and kragut and kragut did an interesting exercise where they did a mock draft and they made up a few brought up a few points in terms of you know you want to take as many as many defensemen as you can just because they are sort of the hottest trade commodities moving forward and you want to stay as close to that 43.8 million just so you provide yourself with financial

flexibility but the thing that i brought it thought was interesting was they brought up how You might want to be more inclined to take guys that have expiring contracts in 2017, 2018, just so that you could be big players in that summer's UFA class, which looks like it's going to have a bunch of intriguing names. So I don't know. It's tough because obviously George McPhee is saying all the right things, and they've already brought in a bunch of interesting hockey minds into the mix there in that front office, which gives me hope that they are going to approach is the right way. but at the same time, you can sort of see the pressure there in terms of not being one of these expansion teams like in the past that just is, you know, this boring collection of players that no one really wants to watch. Like they definitely want to make a splash and you can see that being the case.

So it's going to be a tough balance for him. It is. And no one's ever done this before. Like I know there's been expansion drafts, but there's never been anything like this, which is, you know, obviously why they're doing one monthly now among that group. but it's one of the reasons why they hired Tom Porsaska, who used to run the site General Fannager, and it created a pretty interesting cap tool,

expansion draft tool, and it was really on top of, I think, kind of the way the rules are going and seeing certain situations. For example, he was the first to talk about Jared Cowan's contract last year having a benefit to buy it out early and why he would be a trade chip. So I think that they're doing everything they can

to try to anticipate, you know, sort of what's going to arrive for them on June 17, but until it happens, I mean, it's difficult to know. And you can have your strategies. And like anyone who's ever approached a fantasy draft, it's probably the best example. You have all these ideas going in and then you get there in the heat of the moment

and you don't always end up with what you want. And I think that that's really what they're trying to protect about, that they go in with clear minds, that they fully understand all the permutations of the rules and that they build a team that, okay, yeah, maybe it's a chance to win some games next year in their first season, but ultimately they don't want to end up with a bunch of pieces that are going to get in the way of having a good team in the years following that. Yeah, and it definitely, you know, they are being put into a position to succeed just by the rules.

They are definitely more forgiving than they have been in the past. But at the same time, I mean, once you start kind of going through the names of potential options for them, you do quickly realize that while there's going to be intriguing options in the back end on the blue line and in net, I feel like, you know, you're really going to have to hit a home run with like a lot. lottery pick here in terms of high upside offensive talent just because it's a bunch of like third and fourth liners. And there's some intriguing guys that have shown flashes, but I haven't necessarily put it together yet and you could potentially find like hidden gems there. But you're not, you're not going to get any guy that's all of a sudden just going to move the needle completely for

you and score 30, 40 goals in 2017. No, it would take a miracle for that guy somehow to slip through the cracks. I mean, they're going to still have to build through the entry draft as you're referencing there with their lottery. I mean, that's a benefit. Is it they're going to get the best odds to win the lottery and maybe they get some good draft picks early that can help. But, you know, that's six-year goal. Man, I just cringed when I heard that. I understand why Bill Foley is excited. But if he's putting that pressure on that hockey ops department,

I just don't see how reasonably that can be expected based on where they're starting. Yeah. Okay, so let's look at some of those options. And as I mentioned, if anyone that doesn't check that out, they should go on Sportsnet.com. And check out the fine work you did in publishing the 66 names that will, have to be, are exempt, that'll mostly because of no move clauses and injuries. And there's obviously, you know, a handful of teams that there's no, they don't have anyone on that list. So it's much more

difficult to sort of figure out where they're going to go. As if they're going to make any moves to keep guys and get under that limit or what they're going to do. But then there are a few teams, like, say, Anaheim, for example, which has put themselves in a bit of a tricky spot here with some of the contracts they've given out in the past to aging veterans because they're going to have to keep BX, Kessler, Perry, and Getslap, and while, you know, the last two guys, it would have been obviously kept no matter what, and Kessler's having a nice year this year,

you know, having to keep a guy like Kevin BX at the expense of potentially using a better, younger player is a pretty tough pill to swallow over them. It is. And, you know, they have both, I mean, there's two options, right? You can protect seven forwards, three defensemen, or one goalie, or eight skaters, which would allow you to protect more than three defensemen and one goalie. and you know they're the one team that I think that this most

pressingly applies to about what you do in that case I mean with Kevin BXA perhaps they buy them out perhaps they convince them to weigh that no move clause to be exposed for Vegas or maybe even in a trade ahead of time but you know if not my goodness they have some work to do on their blue line because I think we would all agree as they're composed today that they don't want to lose hapus Lindholm they don't want to move Cam Fowler or lose Camp

in the expansion draft. They don't want to lose Sammy Vottenen. You know, Josh Manson even is a player there that is very well thought of. I mean, that's 4D right there, and that doesn't include Kevin BXA, who has to be protected as we stand right now. And they also want to win a Stanley Cup this year. So I think that they're far more reluctant now to say deal at Camp Fowler away than they were at the draft last year when they were discussing trade possibilities.

So, you know, they're probably in the toughest spot of any team. team right now because then you add in the three forwards that have to be protected, you know, not protected among that list is guys like Ricard Raquel, Jakob Silverberg. You know, there are players there that, you know, they can still, I guess, make trades to make this work, but I think it's going to be very difficult for them to really ensure that they're losing a true fourth liner or something of that nature or a seventh D. I mean, you know, this is probably the one situation. Vegas's eye and with the biggest eyes, just looking at the way the team's composed. Yeah, I mean, especially on that blue line, because you mentioned Lynn Holman, Vatton,

and I honestly think that I would have to think long and hard about protecting Josh Manson over a camp follower at this point, just because I think that he has shown an ability to play some really good hockey, and I didn't kind of came out of nowhere for me, but I've been very impressed by him, and then obviously, you know, you can't let a guy like Ricardo Rekyllis go, so does that mean that Jake Silverberg is all of a sudden available and he'd instantly, I feel like, be like the highest upside forward that any team is going to expose. So it's tough. I kind of wonder if you're an opposing GM, do you view Anaheim as a team that you should be just calling on a regular basis now and trying to get one of these guys for cheaper than he's actually worth

in a vacuum just because anything they can get, even if it's 50 cents on the dollar or whatever, will help them as opposed to just losing them for nothing? Or are the ducks in a position where they view themselves as a contender this season and, you know, trading away a guy like Silverberg for for peanuts is not something that seems very enticing for a team that's trying to win. Yeah, and it's such a fine line to walk. And, you know, obviously there's room for Bob Murray to review where his team's at, you know, still before the trade deadline.

He doesn't have to make this decision, you know, now. And I think that likely they're going to try to wait this out and see where they're at and be sure that they're a contender because, You know, you don't want to lose these players for nothing. I think that's what it comes down to for all these situations. I'm sure we'll talk about the Penguins' goal tending with Mark Andre Fleury having to be protected. I mean, teams just don't want to give those type of players away if they don't have to. And I think that when push comes to shove, they will take 50 or 75 cents on the dollar in a trade

in order to make sure that they're not just handing those players to Vegas. And, you know, really that's the challenge for Vegas is they're going to see a shuffling of these type of names, you know, probably leading into that trade deadline. And it's going to be frustrating because essentially the pool that they're choosing from, I think it's only going to get worse than where it stands today, you know, based on what they've been able to do in their initial mock draft. Yeah, I just, I just envision like George McPhee is sitting in his office, receiving a phone call and then just like shaking his head and walking up

and just crossing a name off with a big black sharpie on his board. Just like, ah, the one they got away. We could have had Silverberg and now we can't. You might be surprisingly correct. I don't think that that's a totally fantasy land kind of vision, just knowing the work that they've already put in. Okay, so Anaheim's an interesting team to keep in mind for that. I think that another sort of sneaky, interesting team is Columbus,

just because their list of guys that they have to keep based on their contracts is long. And obviously having to keep a guy like David Clarkson throws a wrench into their plans just because they have an interesting collection of young talent. And I don't see how they're going to be able to keep at all unless they do some tink. here. I mean, they have to keep Obrowski, Clarkson, Dubinsky, Falino, and Hartnell. And then that leaves an interesting list of guys where, you know, Seth Jones are obviously going to keep. Brennan Sa, they're obviously going to keep. And then it's like, do you keep Cam Adkinson or Boone Jenner or do you just give up on Ryan Murray at this point? Or are you still in on him? Like, what does Columbus do at that point?

Yeah, and maybe their biggest issue could be in goal. You know, with Sergey Robowski having a no move, you know, he's automatically protected, and they have a couple prospects that are well thought of, and Junis Corpuselho and Anton Forresburg, you know, to the goalies that essentially helped them win the Calder Cup last year in Cleveland. And, you know, I would think depending on what this season means for those guys, that, you know, the Vagans might be enticed to take one of them just because they're young goalie prospects that are thought of well. And, you know, there's no way, you know, outside of Columbus dealing away goalie Bob, which I just don't see happening. that they're not going to be exposed. So that will probably be the choice for Vegas.

Do they want to take one of the young goleys here? Or do they look elsewhere? I mean, I'm sure I know probably not a friend of the PDO cast. It would be Jack Johnson given his numbers. I mean, I can see him being exposed. And you hit on the right guys up front. Cam Atkinson, Boone Jenner, you know, one or both of those guys potentially could be exposed. I mean, it's going to be.

a tough choice because I think based on the start that Alex Wendberg's had, you know, they're going to protect him. You know, it's sort of I guess the one good thing for Columbus is that you know, it looks like David Clarkson, for example, was basically long-term injured, not expected ever to play in the

NHL again. You know, he's likely going to be exempted from this process. I think the NHL the NHL doesn't want those type of guys. It includes Nathan Horton who's on the Leafs books and Ryan Kloh as well in New Jersey. They don't want those guys part of this process at all, even if they waive a no move,

because I don't think they want Vegas adding kind of that dead salary to get to the floor. At least that's my sense right now. So, you know, at least Columbus will get one bonus in losing the Clarkson deal from the ones that they have to protect. But, you know, I don't see any way that they're not going to have to, you know, expose a pretty good player in this. And, you know, it might just be the goalie that they end up losing. Yeah, well, that'd be huge for them if, I didn't know that about Clarkson. So, yeah, that it definitely makes the decision a little bit easier for them. The wild are also interesting to me because they have a glut of young defensemen,

and it looks like, you know, they're going to keep suitor, obviously. They have to because it was no move. And I think Jared Spurgeon is a lock to be kept as well. And Matt Dunbudge was based on how highly regarded he is in the league. And all of a sudden, that opens the door for a guy like Jonas Burdine, for example. But the interesting thing for me in that regard is that, you know, a few years ago, I remember during that rookie season when it was like Brendan Dillon and Jonas Brodine and they were taking the league by storm. And I was so high on both of them. And it's weird. Dillon's looked a bit better this year playing with a guy who can move in David Schlemko. But for whatever reason, Brodine just hasn't developed the way that I thought he would. And he's one of those players that's immensely frustrating to me just because you look at him and he should be better and more productive than he actually is. But then you look at him. at the numbers and sort of everything that's coming together and it's just not adding up for him. No, it has been a tough go.

And, you know, maybe Vegas rolls the dice on him, no pun intended. I mean, he's 23 years old. And you hope maybe that there's still something more you can get out of him that you can work on his game. I mean, that to me looks like a good option. We should mention, too, because I know Chuck Fletcher is one of the GMs that's kind of been open about this, is that with this process, Vegas is going to be allowed to make deals with teams. They all have to basically go through a trade call and be above board, where, hypothetically speaking, you know, Minnesota trades in, I don't know,

let's say a second round pick in exchange for not selecting, well, let's call it Jonas Protein, just for argument's sake in this case. And, you know, they can start having those conversations, you know, after March 1st, which times well without the three-day GM's meeting. a little later in March in Florida when, you know, a lot of this, I think, will really be in the forefront by then when everyone's together. And it's, it's, it's quite close. And, you know, it's something I know that Chuck Fletcher is aware of with him having these no moves, the three guys up front. Ryan Suter, plus those young defensemen, I mean, that he's going to be in the market, I think, to, you know, try to protect more of his assets by maybe giving up a draft pick or something to Vegas.

and, you know, that will be an interesting sort of component to this because Doug McLean, my colleague at SportsNet, was regaling me last night with all the under-the-table deals he made back in the 2000 expansion draft when he's putting together Columbus Blue Jackets, you know, basically having certain players signed ahead of time, having deals cooked up with teams on trades. And, you know, I think the NHL is going to do the best it can to make sure everything's more above board this year. And then part of that will be, you know, these sort of trades to participate. tech players rights. Yeah. Hey, Chris, don't be selfish. Doug's my, my, my, my coworker as well here at SportsNet. That's true.

And man, he's got some good stories off there. Let's move on to the Rangers who have some decisions ahead of them because, you know, they have to keep a guy like Dan Gerardi, which really throws a wrench into things. And they have such a fascinating collection of young forwards that, you know, I'm just not sure how it's going to play out for them because they have to keep Rick Nash, which I think was, was that something that, you know, was, you made it seem like in your article that it was sort of up in the air and maybe they were approaching this planning that they weren't going to have to keep him. Is that something they kind of caught them off guard?

I think the Rangers had a pretty good idea that Rick was going to be protected, but the rest of the league didn't necessarily. And, you know, certainly on Cap Friendly's site and general Fanajerman who was still running, he was the most popular player exposed that more people than any other had going to Vegas. Simply because he's getting older, the Rangers have some cap issues, they have the players you're talking about, and he has a $7.8 million cap hit. And there was a little confusion with his contract. It was the deal he signed with Columbus originally. And initially it had a full no move for five seasons.

And then it was downgraded to 12-team trade lists after the fifth year. but what people didn't realize is it also kept the no-move portion when it came to waivers or the minors. And the way the NHL ultimately started interpreting those deals is that that also included a no-move and an expansion draft. So I think his name was a surprise to some that have been playing around with the mock drafts. And now that he has to be protected, it does add an extra little bit here. I have to wonder about Dan Gerardi. I know he's someone that the organization, and pretty loyal to, but ultimately, I don't know if, again, if it's going to be a case of getting him

the wave is no move to go to Vegas or potentially contemplating a buyout or, you know, what it is that will keep him out of this process. But, you know, to me, there has to be some flexibility there because of, you know, there's a lot of miles on him at this point. And, you know, he's been scratched a couple times and sort of gray, whether it's injury or performance-related. And, you know, he is under contract for another couple years but um you know i i have to think that that'll be one area where if they can get him not to be included among the players they have to protect it at least give them one more spot because you know you you look among their forward group and it's there's a lot of guys there i mean they're going to want to keep derrick step on i would think chris criter mat

zucorello um meka zabinajad who's out injured now but it was off to a great start with them um you know even maybe a guy like oscar lindberg i'm not sure. You know, there's various players, and, you know, I think the Rangers are and other teams susceptible to maybe giving Vegas a forward that can be of some use, and maybe not quite as useful as Jacob Silverberg if he ends up being a player that they get. But, you know, the Rangers are in a tough spot. And then the other thing, of course, is they're off to a great start. And some of it looks to be PDO-driven, but still that they're in a great position to try to make a run and have a playoff run and I'm sure they're not going to want to compromise any ability to win this year

in order to worry about which player they're going to lose in June. Yeah, yeah, no, they definitely seem that type of team that would be pushing their chips all in as opposed to kind of thinking in advance. And I don't know, it's tough. I mean, obviously, you mentioned all those players and there's guys like J.T. Miller and Kevin Hayes who they have to find a way to keep. So I think they could be one of these teams that could really lose an intriguing young talent and that's good for Vegas.

another interesting team is Tampa Bay and before we started recording you were kind of hinting at the fact that there could be an interesting little loophole with a guy like Ben Bishop for example in terms of how Vegas would approach you know negotiating with him and whether they could get him and another guy off Tampa Bay as well at the same time so do you want to talk about that a little bit? Sure well it's funny because the league has been hearing complaints both from the Vegas side and from GMs worried about this window because during the expansion window, they're allowed to talk to players that are pending UFAs. And, you know, one thing Vegas has been worried about is that, you know, basically a team like Tampa, this isn't the hypothetical, it's not their specific concern, or least that I know that they've voiced, could say to Ben Bishop, who's an unrestricted free agent, look, we're going to sign you, here's the contract, but we're not going to sign until after the expansion draft, because if they were to sign up before the expansion draft, they could only protect one of Ben Bishop,

or Andre Vasilevsky. And I think Vegas is worried that, you know, some of these deals could basically be in the drawer waiting until after the expansion draft just to leave Tampa better set up for handling expansion. Whereas I think what the teams are concerned about, you know, a team like the Lightning, is that, you know, during that window of the expansion, Vegas is also allowed to talk to UFAs and they're allowed to sign them during that period, you know. If they were to sign Ben Bishop, who is appending on. restricted free agent in mid-June, they wouldn't be allowed to claim anyone else off Tampa's

roster. But, you know, I think the lightning among other teams have kind of been wondering out loud, well, what happens if they make the deal with Ben Bishop and say, hey, we'll sign you on July 1st, also take someone off the roster and then get Ben anyway two weeks later, that there isn't a lot of good feeling about that. And, you know, what the league's response essentially has been, look, all of this is circumvention of the cap. If it's not playing by the rules, if any of this gets done, and you get caught. I mean, it's minimum first-round draft pick taken away in penalty and pretty significant fine as well. But there's already a lot of suspicion, I can say in speaking with GMs, that there's going to be some funny business here.

And, you know, I'm not sure how you entirely prevent it. So I think that Ben Bishop case will be interesting if he ends up finishing the year in Tampa, just to see where he signs and if Vegas is involved in any way, because, you know, we're still seven months away. There's a lot of things that can happen in the meantime, but I know there's already some concern that he's the type of player where you could see a bit of funny business come into play. Yeah, it's kind of a peculiar case because I think Ben Bishop is a perfectly fine goalie and a very adequate NHL starter, as he's proven in the past few years.

But I don't think that, you know, Tampa Bay is a team that's trying to compete right now, but I don't think that Pasolovsky and that, you know, is a downgrade at all. I might actually be an upgrade based on the way he's playing this season. and if Vegas was able to sign a guy like Bishop and then still get another player from Tampa Bay, that would be just like a best case scenario for them because you look at the players that Tampa's going to have to expose. And I feel like, you know, one of Alex Kalorner, Vladim Meshnikov is going to be available if Bishop is a guy that doesn't, isn't on that list, right? Because they have to keep Philpula, Stamco's and Callahan. And then you have Druin, Kuturov, Palat, and then Tyler Johnson.

So it leaves one of those really interesting forwards for Vegas to scoop up. Yeah, and it's tough. Unless they can maybe somehow get Ryan Callahan out of his no move clause, it's going to be tough for them. Even, you know, sort of if we put the goalie conversation aside, you know, they just got such a great group of players. There's no coincidence. They've been one of the best teams in the league here the last few years.

And, you know, I do think Tampa, you know, Vladim Metsonikoff to me looks like the guy that is likely to be the odd man out based on how things are shaping up right now. And, you know, it's going to be an interesting year for Lightning. You know, they've been doing the tango a little bit with the cap as it was. But, you know, they also have Johnson and Plot up for Restricted for Agency this summer so that they're going to have two more, you know, pretty key pieces to what they're doing to sign ahead. And, you know, pretty clearly to me anyway, this is going to be Ben Bishop's last year as a

lightning. will be interesting to see if he finds his way to Vegas. I mean, the other thing for him, quite honestly, is he's shaping up to be maybe one of the bigger names on the UFA market entirely, but certainly the biggest goaltending name. And, you know, it probably doesn't do him any justice to do any side deals.

He should just wait until all 31 teams have a fair chance at him and see what sort of offers come his way. Right. Well, I remember I don't know how much of this was factual and how much it was just speculation, but I remember in the summer before Calgary traded for Brian Elliott, there was rumors that they were talking to the lightning about Bishop and it was contingent on him signing and extension. And it seemed like at least his asking price was pretty large in terms of both term and money. So it's kind of be kind of curious to see as people are whising up to the fact that you don't really want to invest, you know, five, six, seven years into these goalies just because their performance is so volatile, what kind of market there will be for a guy like Ben Bishop this summer.

Yeah, goalies, man, it's tough when you're talking about trading them. signing them, isn't it? I mean, you don't see a lot of them really get to UFA status, the really good ones. And, you know, even in Ben's case, he's 30 years old. He's, you know, had some untimely injuries. I'm not sure we can call him injury prone, but he's just happened to be injured the last couple playoffs when it got to the big games for the lightning. And, you know, it's going to be tough for him to maybe get the money he wants. And, you know, in the Calgary situation at the draft last year, a trade was completed. And it got as far as where Ben's agent was talking with the flames about an extension and they couldn't come to a deal which is why that trade never happened.

Yeah. Are there any names notable ones that we haven't discussed yet that would be like are going to be kind of hot button topics or guys that are going to generate a lot of attention moving forward? I think the Penguins and the goalies is probably, it's a tough one to skip. I mean, we all saw what happened last year during the playoff run and even now, Matt Murray I believe as we're talking today is won six of the last seven games. he's off to a good start since he's returned from his injury.

And, you know, it's left a lot of teams around the league, and certainly the ones that are looking for a goalie, wondering what's going to happen with Mark Andre Fleury. And, you know, I think Jim Rutherford is still wanting to be patient with how he approaches this. And in thinking, first of all, that this is a very compact season. You know, Matt Murray's never played a full year in the NHL, even though he did win them a Stanley Cup or help win them a Stanley Cup last spring.

And, you know, they're cognizant of not putting too much on his play. too soon, but that being said that, you know, if this gets, you know, to the trade deadline or or even beyond it, it might be tough for them to get any value. And we know, you know, historically, it's tough to get any value anyway out of a goalie trade. But that Mark Andre Fleury, you know, I think would have some suitors if Pittsburgh is willing to deal them. So I think that this is probably the biggest name and the biggest pending decision that is likely be made by March 1st.

this year, and it's, you know, it's all around the expansion draft. If there was no expansion draft this year, I have no doubt that they would just go with Flurry and Murray again as sort of a tandem and have, you know, what they feel is the ultimate insurance if either got hurt or went through a bout of bad play to win another Stanley Cup. But I think ultimately Pittsburgh is going to soon have to start listing to some offers and considering what they do with Mark Andre Fleury because Matt Murray does look like the number one. And obviously him being, you know, basically 10 years younger. then Flurry, he's seen as the future in addition to the present. Yeah, for sure.

So on the monitor. Oh, one other name before we get out of here that's been generating buzz as a guy that could potentially be exposed, which kind of caught me off guard. But then as I gave it more thought, it makes a bit more sense. As a guy like Anthony Mantha in Detroit where, you know, he's been so, he was obviously came in with pedigree and he's been pretty productive in the H.L. We haven't necessarily seen it yet from him at the NHL level. but you look at the list of guys that they could conceivably keep ahead of them and it makes

sense that a team that's so loyalty-based and so just invested in their veterans would keep some of these guys who might have less upside and less of a future just, you know, in spite of a guy like Manta. So I don't know. Do you think someone like him could be left unprotected? I think he's a fairly good bet, you know, because, you know, really the choice for Detroit comes down to, to they expose Henrik Zetterberg, who doesn't have to be exposed. He's not required to. He doesn't have a no move clause.

He's obviously 36. He's the captain. He's been there forever and is viewed very favorably by the organization. He's still got, I think, three or four years on his contract at over $6 million of a cap hit. And, you know, there's a valid argument that if they left him exposed that he wouldn't be taken by Vegas, that he's exactly the kind of guy we were talking about at the outset, that it's just too much term and too much money at this stage of his career to make that move. But from Detroit's standpoint, I think that it would be a sensitive subject if they left him exposed.

And he was claimed. They wouldn't want that to happen. And, you know, as a result, it's going to have a direct impact on who they do leave, you know, open to be taken. And Anthony Manta looks like, to me, you know, just doing the mock drafts myself is one of the guys that could go. So, you know, this isn't entirely unprecedented. I think if you look at Montreal's situation, you know, Thomas Placannock is a guy that falls into a similar category where, you know, they're going to have to make that call about risking leaving them exposed, not because they want to lose them, but just gambling that Vegas won't want that type of player at the cap he's at and the age he's at.

But, you know, a bit of a sensitive subject in both cases because, you know, both those guys, be it to Zetaberg and Placannick have meant a lot to the teams they've been. been on and have been pretty loyal soldiers over the years. Well, that is an interesting thing to consider just because, you know, it's easy for us to sit back here and play with all these expansion tools and try to figure out who's going to be left unprotected and who's going to be available. But it is so much of this business is managing personalities and keeping good relations. And I imagine it would be kind of a, I just took a real punch to the gut if you saw that your name was on this list, right?

It's like, it kind of speaks to how the organization thinks of you. So the teams are going to have to tread very carefully here with some of these aging veterans who have done so much for their franchises already. Well, and I'm sure that the great lengths are going to be taken to try to keep the lists private. I mean, essentially the way it works is at 5 p.m. on the 17th of June, you know, all the protected lists have to be in. And then on June 20th at 5 p.m. So 72 hours later, exactly, Vegas, you know, submits its picks to the league or by that deadline. and the next day this is all announced. So in some cases, I think it's entirely possible. We're not ever going to know that, say,

a Thomas Placanick was left unprotected, especially if, obviously, if he's not claimed, we might never know that. But, you know, it's a tricky situation. And I think teams are going to have to decide, you know, do they want to share that with a player's agent during that time just so that they're not caught totally off guard or, you know, how they want to handle that.

And I think especially for teams that have been good and have lots of good players, I mean, it's just a reality. They're not going to be able to protect them all. They're not going to be able to insulate themselves from this type of thing. And we could see some hurt feelings, I guess, out of this in addition to even with guys that end up staying put, don't get claimed by the Vegas team. Well, I mean, it's 2016, and I feel like this stuff generally tends to get out.

And I feel especially confident about that, knowing that people like yourself are snooping around and trying to get to the bottom of it. I hate to admit it, but that will be goal number one during those 72 hours of mine is just trying to nail down. exactly what the pool looks like that they're choosing from. Yeah, I'm looking forward to all of it and all the discussion that we're going to have in the weeks and months leading up to it. Everyone can follow Chris at reporter Chris on Twitter, but I'm sure they're doing so already for all of his coverage.

And hopefully we'll get you back on next time something like this drops. It won't be long if I have my saying at Dimitri. Okay, talk soon, man. Thanks. The Hockey PEOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on Sound at SoundCloud.com slash HockeyPedioCast. Looking for a new podcast to listen to?

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