The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 126: Midseason Awards

Episode Date: December 30, 2016

Chris Johnston joins the show to help hand out some midseason awards. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 1:50 Most Disappointing Teams 6:00 Most Surprising Teams 10:50 Jack Adams Trophy 12:30 Lady Byng Trophy 14:20 Selke Trophy 19:40 Calder Trophy 25:40 Norris Trophy 32:15 Vezina Trophy 38:18 Hart Trophy Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Stitcher. All past episodes can be found here. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews of the show are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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sharing and helping do your part to keep the dream alive. I'm excited to see what 2017 has in store for the show. Hopefully we'll be able to stay on this upward trajectory and keep doing bigger and better things with it. I know a lot of you have done this already, but if you haven't, I'd really appreciate if you took a minute or two to go rate and review the show on iTunes. I know it might seem inconsequential or unimportant,

but all of those ratings and reviews matter and add up and that sort of stuff really matters to my bosses. So once again, thanks for listening this year. We try to do our best to keep the good times going in 2017. And with all that out of the way, let's get to the show. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich.

And joining me is old reliable, Chris Johnson. Chris, what's going on, man? Not too much, even reliable during the holidays. Yes, yes. you are. So this is the last podcast we're going to be doing in 2016. I thought it'd be a fun exercise for us to do a mid-season awards type show. We can just kind of like put in a little time capsule after this and then revisit it later in 2017 and see how much things have changed. But I thought you'd be the right man to have on since you actually do have a vote. So it would be kind of fun.

We did this last year together. We can kind of go back and forth and see what we agree on, what we disagree on, and where things are trending moving forward. Love it. Let's do it. let's start with a couple sort of, we'll do the individual awards in a bit, but I thought it would be kind of interesting to start off with having a discussion about the most surprising from a positive perspective and the most surprising in terms of of being disappointing teams. And let's start with the disappointing ones. I think that, tell me which team you think has been the most disappointing this season.

For me, it's probably the Tampa Bay Lightning, just because we're talking about a team that most people, if you look, pick to be in the Stanley Cup or win the Stanley Cup. And, you know, they may still get there. And I know they've had some injuries, which have impacted their performance. But, you know, they weren't really doing all that great even when Stephen Stamcoast was healthy.

And, you know, again, I do think if I was betting that they could turn it around and get into the playoffs as we're talking right now. They're actually on the outside looking in. But, you know, there was huge expectations there. I still think there are. and they haven't really delivered to this point. Yeah, I mean, the positive thing that they have working for them

is this Atlantic Division where I'm not necessarily very sold on the Ottawa Senors. I think the Canadians and the Bruins are going to be in the playoffs from that division. But, I mean, even if the Metro takes the five spots with the two wildcards, it still leaves that third Atlantic Division spot open, and you've got all those teams. It's going to be one of the most interesting races heading into the second half. and if the lightning can finally get to get healthy, they just got Kuturov and Palat back,

which is huge, and hopefully Stamco will eventually come back, and they can start sort of playing together and reaching that upsides that we think they have. But, yeah, it's weird. Like, I had them and the Dallas Stars is my two most disappointing teams, and they're very similar in the sense

that they're both on the outside looking in right now, which is very surprising based on how they played last year and what we thought they did the season. They've both been devastated by injuries, particularly uproids. and they're both very mediocre this season, just kind of hovering around that 49 to 50% mark in terms of shots and goals and expected goals at 5-on-5,

and it's just unfamiliar territory for these two teams. Yeah, and you know, the Lightning, let's remember. They were in the Cup final and in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference final. I mean, I don't think anyone would have thought that they would have the struggles they've had so far, and obviously injuries play a key factor. Stephen Stamco's was having a monster start to his season. season when he suffered that injury. But I don't know. You just wonder if there's something else going on. I mean, their blue line, where they had Stralman out for a time, and I know that was very tough. The right side in particular of

their blue line was difficult. But, you know, I would think that they're going to be a team that's pretty active leading up to the trade deadline because they do kind of have this window. Obviously, they've had to do some maneuvering to sign the players they have. They've got a few other guys to sign this summer. And, you know, they're kind of in a win now sort of mode. Yeah. It's, it's, it's, interesting. I feel like we had this exact same discussion last year. Obviously, they had much more uncertainty with the upcoming free agents, but it's still sort of the same thing where it's this young, exciting team that's sort of been on the edge there for the past few seasons, but you can't just really kind of take it for granted and be like, well, just because they're young, they have time in the

future. Like, you should try to be winning right now with this group. So it's going to be fascinating to see how they approach it, whether they go all in and try to make some trades for now or whether they kind of take a bigger, a bigger view approach. exactly what do you what are you doing back there cj it sounds uh you're thinking moving around i just got some coffee if i'm being honest i just went poured some coffee we're recording this early in the morning at least west coast time here so uh so i'll give you a pass for that um yeah the the the natural predators were the other team i had on this list but they've been playing much better since that early funk so they're a little bit of an honor roll mention just because of i feel like

they had such crazy high expectations uh heading into the season and they haven't necessarily lived to it yet, but I'm still pretty optimistic about them moving forward. Yep, don't have any real complaints there. They actually look like they're playing pretty well, all things considered. It just don't have the results yet that they would want. Yep, I'm buying that. Okay, let's put a more positive spin on this. Let's go with the most surprising from a positive perspective.

Who do you have here? I'm firing the cannon and saying the Columbus Blue Jackets, just because, you know, there's no way, no one expected this. I mean, top of the league at this point. Even I know inside their team that they didn't, I don't think they were feeling that good at all, to be honest, about their team heading into the year. But, you know, everything's clicked. They've got a great blue line. I think that that's probably driven a lot of help drive a lot of their success and obviously receive some good goal-tending.

And it feels like everyone's scoring on that power play. But, you know, to me, they're by far the biggest surprise of the year. And, you know, you have to conclude based on how they've started, it would be as shocking now if they don't make the playoffs. I mean, they put so many points in the bank that even if they do have some regression coming, you know, they're very well positioned to be in the playoffs. And I didn't see too many people calling that earlier on the year. Yeah, yeah, I have them as my number one surprising team as well. And where I'm at with them right now, it's a very hot button issue.

It kind of reminds me of the Florida Panthers last year, roughly around this time as well, where they started playing much better and then they rattled off that 12-game win streak, I believe. and, you know, there was a crowd that viewed that win streak and went, oh, you know, they're amazing. They're one of the best teams in the league. And then there was that kind of pursuing pushback of people being like, well, actually, their underlying numbers aren't that good. They're not, you know, they're not going to keep winning 12 games in a row. And yeah, it's pretty clear in today's NHL.

It's very tough to sustain that sort of a winning streak and generally a combination of talent and luck. But I think if you look at the Blue Jackets, there's a couple things they do pretty well. I mean, Bobrovsky, as long as he's healthy, has played as one of the best goalies in the league and should give him a chance to win on a nightly basis. Their 5-1-5 play has definitely improved where it's at least not a liability anymore, at least they're slightly above league average. And that top power play unit is lethal right now. So I think that combination of things, you put that all together, and it's a pretty good recipe. Exactly. And there's just no one that matches them for that surprise.

I thought it was funny too, Demetriere, I don't know if you remember earlier in the year when John Torrello went on his course he ran. I heard that that was because he got sort of some internal notes or whatever, and the team was doing pretty well at that point. Good start, but that was essentially saying that they were due for a falloff, and he didn't like that very much. So he went out of course he ran, but I think he pays attention to this a lot more than he would let on.

Yeah, I believe it. The other team that I had as an honorable mention here is the Boston Bruins, and the results themselves haven't necessarily come yet, but they're currently leading the league right now in pretty much every single five-on-five shot metric. And I just looked at sort of historically, they're hovering around that 55, 56% mark. And you look at all the teams that have done that since 2007, and there's a lot of cup winners and conference finalists at the very least. And I think the only team that was in that mix that didn't make the conference final was the 0708 sharks and they lost in the second round. So, I'm not necessarily saying that this Bruins team is going to have a long playoff run, but I think that they're sort of lurking there in that Atlantic Division. That's a good one. I hadn't really thought of them. What about Minnesota in the West?

I know they're also riding one of these great wind streaks that might make things look better than they actually are. Well, I think that they seem to be getting some results there. Well, I was pretty high on them heading into the season. The one thing that scared me off a little bit was that I thought that the Central Division would be really good. there was what four or five teams there that were all kind of you know had the had the upside to be very scary opponents but you know the Bruce Boudreau

edition was huge and they have a pretty deep team where they can roll four lines and three pairs without much of a drop off and they can all skate and play a pretty skilled brand of hockey so I was pretty high on them I agree this winning streak is sort of skewed things and I think that there are some more red flags it's funny I think that you know the for all the flack the Columbus blue jackets get is being sort of fraudulent during this winning streak, I think that they're much more legit than this Minnesota Wild Team is currently. Oh, that's interesting.

It's funny, people react to that stuff. They don't like hearing it, but, you know, it's just only fair to look and we're trying to decide what's real, right? We're trying to figure out, you know, what is, what's going to continue. And you're right, maybe that they will have more of a fall off than Columbus does. Well, yeah, I mean, there's two ways to approach yourself, right? We can give them credit for what they've done already. They've banked these wins, but it also is our,

job to sort of try and figure out what's going to happen next rather than just chasing our tails the entire time. Right. So we'll plan the cup parade there just yet. Yeah, yeah, I'd hold off on that. Okay, let's get into the individual awards here. Let's blast through a couple of these easy ones just because I don't think that we'd have to spend too much time on it. But let's do the Jack Adams. And I don't know, what are you doing with this award right now? Well, because I don't get to actually vote on this one. And I think I'm in the same camp as you. I'm going to give it to Mike Sullivan, who's just doing a good job coaching a good team. Because, you know, we don't see that go that way in the voting very much, but, you know, he's done a phenomenal job.

And right now I would have him as my pick. Yeah, I think Sullivan's definitely in that mix. I have, like, three or four guys there. It's funny, you know, Tortorella and Brudrow we just talked about. I think they have to be up here just based on how their teams have been playing and how they've been exceeding expectations. And that's what this award really is about, right? it's like where the team was at heading into the season and where they're at now and sort of you just attribute that to the coach even if it's not necessarily fully deserved like all it's generally

the players and the goalies but i think uh claude julian as well i just discussed the bruin's has to be up there and i think that those four guys are sort of in their own little tier and then you can kind of quibble with with the semantics of it i see the brunes are your darling team now well i just think they're it's interesting they're not getting talked about much you know they haven't had a lot of luck in terms of generating some of those shots into goals. And, you know, they're kind of lurking there in Atlantic Division. And then people are talking a lot about the other teams there. But I think that, you know, they have a chance if, especially if they kind of start

having a bit more good fortune with puck bounces here that they could put something special together. Right. And notice that the local coverage has been very kind of alarmist that they're down on this team. So, you know, maybe they're in for a good second half and you will have seen it first. Yeah. The Lady Bing, do you just sort by the lowest penalty minute totals here? Like I don't even really understand the point of this award.

I think so. I mean, I believe part of it, and I don't have the description right in front of me, is sort of gentlemanly player who plays at a high level kind of to get to it. So normally, when you're picking it, I just look at players that didn't take a lot of penalties that had a pretty good season. And that's why I think, you know, you saw Marty San Luis win it a lot late in his career. So it's not necessarily the guy who ends up with just two as opposed to someone with six. But I didn't even look at it for this for today.

So who's your pick? Austin Matthews, maybe. I don't think he's barely taking any penalties. Well, the interesting thing for me, and, you know, we generally don't see defensemen win this award, I feel like. But I just basically sorted by the most ice time and then the least penalty minutes, just to kind of see if there was some creative. outliers there and both oscar fiefbaum and john carlson are you know they're trending towards like roughly 600 five and five minutes so far without a single penalty which i think is impressive just in the

sense that you think that you know both guys are either top pairing or at least top four on their team and play heavy minutes against really good competition and you'd figure that there'd be an occasion where they're like boxing someone out in front of the net or something and they they're they have to take a guy down and and it's i guess it's you know it might just be one of those things where in the next 20 games they could just have a rattle off a bunch of penalties and be eliminated from this discussion. But so far, it's it's kind of crazy that they haven't taken a single one yet. Yeah, I mean, even just getting frustrated, right? Getting beat out of a corner or doing something in the heat of the moment.

I mean, that's for a defenseman, I think it's even tougher. I mean, a winger, you cannot take penalties by, I think, a little easier than someone who's trying to protect the goalie more sort of as part of your job description. Yep. Okay, now we're getting into the good stuff. Let's do the, let's do the Selki. I think that the interesting debate here isn't necessarily who's going to win it, but who we put as our third guy on this list because it's pretty much going to be Bergeron

and Copatar, I feel like one, two, until they feel like they don't want to. I feel like just the end of time it's going to be Bergeron and Copatar, one, two, and just flipping a coin. Yeah, and this year, man, Bergeron looks like he's been having a great year or some of the numbers. So, I mean, that's probably helping drive your excitement for the Bruins. Yeah, yeah, it is. I mean, that Bergeron, Marshan, pairing is just, I feel like people recognize how good they are and it helps that Marshan got a little bit

of that credit with his contract extension this summer and the way he played on the national stage in the World Cup, but I still feel like it's kind of overlooked just how insanely dominant that pairing is. And I think Kopitar fits into this in a well, into this bucket as well, just in the sense that, you know, if you look at Bergerna and Kopitar's numbers, they haven't really been producing much. I think Bergeron has something like five goals and 10 points in 35 games. here and and cobatar has i think three goals himself and it's really hard to find top guys like this that can have those sorts of offensive numbers but still have it not necessarily really matter just because the teams are having such a crazy high volume of shots whenever they're on the ice that

you know they're just like not really giving up goals against when they're out there so like they're just tilting the ice completely in their own team's favor and just doing so much for them in that regard so it's um it's been impressive so i have burser on slightly ahead of Copatar right now, but I think that the drop-off between Copatar and whoever is third is much bigger than the difference between one and two. That's fair. Very, very fair. So who would you even, like, who would we even have?

I feel like we have to have a third guy here. I think, like, maybe someone like Ryan Kessler was third, for example, would we just, by default, put him in again? Because, like, a guy, like, Couturier would have seemed like an obvious fit here, but he's only played, like, 20 games this season, so we kind of have to scratch him off. Do you know who I was wondering about it? And I haven't heard a lot of talk about him, but it looked to me like Jordan Stahl's having a pretty good year in Carolina. I mean, I don't know if he rises all the way to third in the Selke voting, but, you know, he's, to me, he should be on the radar.

Someone who's having a really good year helping the hurricanes who, you know, we've talked about a lot when I've been on, should probably be having a better season than they are in the standings. But, you know, I wonder about Jordan Stahl. You know, what about Sidney Crosby? Would he ever fit somewhere into this? I know it's a personal bugaboo for him that he, he, you know. feels he's overlooked somewhat. Yeah, well, I think you finished

in like the top 10 in this voting last year, I believe. But no, you're right. I mean, we had a discussion with a guy like Joe Thornt last year where, you know, there's these guys where you don't necessarily think of them as being these sort of two-way centers with an emphasis on defense, which is what this award technically is. But like, if you have the puck in the other team's end of the ice very frequently, that's another form of being good on D.

So I think that, you know, when Crosby's out there, the penguins are generally controlling play and doing things in the offensive zone. So, yeah, he's one of their best defensive players just by that. Now, candidly, Dimitri, when I vote on this award at the end of each year, I would say it's a toughest one usually for me to come up with my final list. And, you know, do you have any suggestions for, you know, process ways that I could go about evaluating this when I have to do it? I mean, right now it's, I look at a lot of the simple sort of,

if we want to still call them underlying numbers that I understand. I talked to some scouts and people that I lean on for all of my awards just to help sort of just see you round out my opinion or bounce my ideas off. But, you know, is there any other way that you think that we should determine the order of who wins this award? Because it is kind of a general description, best defensive forward. Yeah, we don't, we don't, it's not very cut and dry. And I think that there isn't necessarily just sort of one metric you could look at and be like, well, this guy is the best in this. So he must be the, the clear cut winner here. I think that you got to kind of take the whole resume.

main to account. We know that I had Micah on the podcast last week and we discussed this where it's not necessarily, you know, we thought for a while that quality competition was the most important thing, but we sort of have come to realize that we at least have to factor in quality of teammates as well because that sort of stuff influences the underlying metrics quite a bit. So I think you've got to just like look at a little bit of everything, take a sampling of their entire resume or the entire portfolio and try to figure it out from there. but I mean, you know, Burzran and Kopitar make it pretty easy for us here. And then you just got to kind of fill in the third guy.

I think the curious thing is, I don't know, like, what is it going to take for us to get a winger into this discussion? I don't know. It doesn't feel like it's going to happen, does it? I mean, if Marion Hosa didn't ever really end up, you know, as a serious player in it, it's, you know, it's hard to, is Uri Lettnan, the last guy who did it? I mean, it just doesn't seem to happen. People seem to value, you know, faceoffs.

weirdly in this. I think that that's what some people look at. There's a lot of those sort of things that just seem to discount a winger's ability to make any meaningful impact in the voting. Yeah, Hosa should have gotten much more love here over the years than he has. So I guess if he didn't, it's going to be tough to make an argument for anyone else. Let's get into the Calder

and there's a bunch of guys here, man. This is a pretty good class. We've been pretty blessed with the young talent that's coming to the league this season. Yeah, it's a good class, but a lot of these guys are trending for kind of historical benchmarks that you can say, you know, a rookie hasn't done this since basically Crosby or Vechkin when it comes to scoring like Linae and Matthews. You know, Zach Wrenski is on a crazy pace offensively for a defenseman that's a rookie. You know, even Matt Murray still qualifies as a rookie as a goal-tending. I mean, this is going to be probably a benchmark kind of class.

I think that a lot of the players that shine in this season will be the stars in the years to come. And, you know, that's kind of a pretty cool historical precedent. And we're going to have to figure out which one deserves the number one spot. Yeah. I think right now Austin Matthews has the inside track just because of how big of an impact he's had in, you know, like Line A, for example, has been scoring a lot of goals and producing a lot of offense. But he still isn't, it's not even not even that he's not a possession drive. everybody's actually been sinking the jets a bit when he's been on the ice in terms of shot

attempts. So I think that, you know, Matthews gets an edge there. And I think that the fascinating thing with a guy like Matthews is you look and he has zero secondary assists at five on five this season, whereas a guy like Marner has five. And I think that, you know, even if you can get a couple of those just cheap ones as the year goes along, it'll sort of make his entire resume look that much better. Just, you know, when you look at the point total and you just go like, whoa, that's, that's really impressive. So I think that, you know, Matthews should even get a bit more fortunate as the season goes along there if he keeps just putting the puck on the net as much as he has so far. Yeah, and, you know, he's had a good December, which sort of makes it easier, I think, for

looking at the vote totals because he's very close and I think he's slightly ahead of line A and points per game, just behind him and goals per game. And, you know, the sort of arguments that were being built, I know Gary Lawless wrote a call and it got a lot of attention about line A, Matthews. To me, those arguments have been wiped away because Matthews essentially is producing at the same level in a much tougher spot in a lineup. And he's really the least best player. There's not, to me, to my eyes anyway, I watched the team a lot. I live in Toronto. And, you know, I just think that he's had even more of an impact than I expect that.

I can't believe the number of shots. He just generates game after game after game, which is what makes you think, you know, his 17 goals at this stage of the season looks relatively sustainable. because he's not he's not riding a crazy high shooting percentage or anything to get them. Yeah, you know, it looks totally legit. I think that, you know, for the Calder purposes, not necessarily just for their careers, but for this year's voting, I think the more interesting debate is a guy like Linae and whether he's going to be able to score enough goals where it's going to be just such an overwhelming resume for him versus the defenseman you mentioned with Werenski and Proverov,

because, you know, you can make the argument that whether you like Werenzky or Proverov more that they should be the second. guy behind Matthews in this voting right now. Oh, man, you're going to anger the people in Winnipeg saying that's the true. Well, I think, I think it's a, it's a fair discussion to have. And I think even the Borensky versus Proverab one is fascinating to me, because you know, Werenski's gotten much more attention with the powerplay production and how well Columbus has been playing.

But, man, you watch Proverov, and he seems like, I think that he could be even better than Rerencki. He might not be as flashy and he might not have as many highlight real plays. But, you know, if you're one of these kind of hockey purists that you just love simple things, like a guy just absolutely destroying a forecheck by himself or making these simple little plays to get out of his own zone, Provarov is already such a treat to watch. It's amazing, too, that they all went in the first couple picks in that same draft along with Noah Hannafin, who obviously isn't a rookie this year.

But, you know, you get a sense that these three guys will kind of be measured against one another for years to come just because, you know, there was some interesting wheeling and dealing going on. You know, the Blue Jackets tried to trade up to get Hannafin. They ended up obviously staying where they were. And I think they're pretty happy as they sit here today with Werenski. And, you know, just kind of the way that draft fell and to have such top end guys come out of it, it's a pretty good start. The interesting thing about Provarov is he's been really good with everyone except Andrew McDonald and now they're playing those two together a lot. And I remember last year when the same thing happened with Shane Gostisperer.

And I don't know, I feel like Dave Haxall is just like hazing these guys a little bit, just making them earn their keep in the league. But like you have to pass through the test of playing with Andrew McDonald before you get to a ride off into the sunset. Right. Life's pretty good. You get to stay in the Ritz Carlton every night when you're on the road, but you have to endure some tough minutes on the ice to prove your worth, I guess.

Yeah. And I wanted to give a lot, some love to a couple other guys here. Matthew Kachuk deserves some credit. But, you know, the backland, Froli, Kachuk line has been rocking like a plus 10, coursey relative as a unit. And they're right there with the Brissera on Marsha and Pasternak line as one of the biggest difference makers in the league in terms of just like what the team does when they're on the ice first, when they're on the bench.

So Kachuk's been surprising. I think that, you know, heading into the season, everyone believed that we're heading into the draft process, everyone was like discussing how he was going to be a pretty NHL. ready guy and how he could step in right away, but it's still always reassuring to see a guy to actually come into the league and do it right away. Yeah, and you know, where he's going to get hurt, obviously is just the points because he's actually had a good season that way, but it's not going to compare likely Matthews and Lina, even a guy like Mitch Marner will probably end up ahead of him in the rookie scoring race. And I think a lot of people will, you know, kind of put their votes around

those sorts of things. Yep, yeah, that's fair. Okay, the Norris. This award, in my opinion, at least at this point is Brenz's to lose. Do you agree with that? Absolutely. I've got him one, two, and three on my list. It's funny, this award is always where it seems like the battle lines get drawn

on the Norris. I mean, it kind of exposes, I guess, the difference in the way some people view the game. But Burns has just had such an awesome year to lead the league in shots and then obviously put up great offensive numbers, drive by possession. To me,

He's, Joe Thornton was blowing some smoke when he said he's the best player in the world right now, but he wasn't exaggerating too much because to me he is the best defenseman in the league at this point. Yeah, I mean, he's on an 82 game pace of 30 goals, 80 points, and like 325 shots. And I love looking at the list of defensemen that I've ever done that. It's Bobby Orr five times, Paul Coffey, Ray Bork, and Doug Wilson, his GM did it once. And that, that's it. So, I mean, once you're kind of, you're not even comparing him to his peers at this point. you're comparing him to just like historically great defense seasons.

So I think that it be a travesty if he's not number one on pretty much everyone's list at this point. Now, do you sense since Dowdy got his Norris last year? Is there less of a undercurrent that sort of scores have to be settled and we're going to ignore performance when it comes to picking this? I mean, you got your boots on the ground a little more than I do in that regard. Well, the funny things I honestly think that, you know, the voters seem to generally be kind of late to the party with this stuff. and I could see Eric Carlson getting a lot of love this season just to sort of make amends for what happened last year.

Even if, you know, I have Carlson's second on my list right now, so it wouldn't be, you know, it's completely disappointing. But I just think that, you know, Burns might get shafted again just because it's not, quote, unquote, his year, which is just a funny concept to me. Right. It's like the echo of screwing up last year that they have to give Carlson one more this year or something. Yeah, no, but, I mean, Carlson, listen, like, he, he's just a funny. he's, Burns is having such an insane season that it's getting lost in the shelf a little bit, but I mean, Carlson has like the same number of primary points as Burd, as Dowdy has total points. So Carlson's pretty clearly number two.

I think that the surprising guy for some people might on my list that's number three is, is Dustin Bufflin right now. Oh, wow. Yeah. I didn't even have them on my list of five. Oh, man. You're going to have to make, make your case, my friend. Well, here we go.

Um, in terms of all these guys, like everyone, every, all the top defense and that would be in consideration here. Um, he is the biggest, uh, discrepancy in terms of how the, his team plays with him on the ice verse, uh, when he's not out there. And, and some of that could be, uh, team effects and, and, you know, them not having great options, but beyond him. But I mean, he's leading the league in ice time right now, which I think would surprise some people. And, and a lot of that was early in the year when Trubo was out where he just was playing 30, 30 minutes a night constantly. but I mean he just he's just amazing I feel like we sort of take him for granted a little bit because you think of him as as this big burly guy that's sort of a you know a gimmicky offensive type but he's just insanely good at everything and he eats a ton of minutes and he's very productive in them and I don't think there's a very clear cut third guy beyond burns and and uh Carlson right now I think Victor headman is making a case for it and if if the lightning get healthy he could definitely produce a ton of points to insert his name into this race. But I think that Bufflin sort of sneaks into that third spot for me. Gotcha. It's funny, you stole my Victor Hedman because he was

going to be my guy that's kind of creeping into this conversation. You know, they're finally going to go from the guy everyone says, you know, future Norris candidate to maybe current Norris candidate. Yeah, yeah. I think, and then I had Headman fourth, but I could definitely make the argument that he could be third there. And then I had Dowdy Fifth, but I'm pretty cool if you want to make an argument for a guy like Barge Giridano who's also had a pretty good year himself. Right. Now, this isn't part of the conversation, but I'm going to freelance. Where are you at with Sub-Bann and Weber in their performances this year? Who's done better do you think this season, not to win the Norris, but just in general? I think it's nothing's really changed, honestly.

I think that, you know, Weber got off to that great start, but a lot of it was just the fact that, you know, his goalies were playing insanely good. while he was out there and they weren't giving up any goals. So his superficial numbers were being boosted a little bit. But it's leveled off as the year has gone along. And listen, I think that Weber's a perfectly fine player. He's a very good defenseman. This sort of stuff happened last year with the Carlson Doughty debates as well,

where it's like, you know, there was so much pushback against Drew Doughty winning it that sometimes people lost the plot a little bit by making, you know, extreme arguments just to try to make their case. that Drew Doughty's not actually that good. Like, yeah, Drew Douty's really good. And Shea Weber is still a really good player who, if you use him correctly and sort of played his strengths, rather than showing off his weaknesses, he can be a very effective defenseman.

But I still think that I would much rather have Suban all things considered. And nothing that's happened this season has changed my perspective on that. Okay, I was just checking in, just in case. Wait, has your opinion on it changed at all? No, I wouldn't say it's changed. I'm maybe coming to appreciate some things about Weber a little bit more than I had. I mean, certainly he's, you know, the Habs had not been scored on very much when he's on the ice. You know, obviously he's helped their power play a lot.

I think most of his goals have come on the power play, and that's been a bonus. So, you know, maybe I can see in the short term why the trade is one that the haves are willing to make. But, you know, if I was still choosing between the two for my team, I'd be having P. K. K. Subat. Yeah, I think that's a good point, though, that sometimes gets overlau. look because Weber is sort of, you know, viewed as more of a traditional defenseman because of his physical nature and how he doesn't necessarily skate that well. But he does have a legitimate offensive impact, particularly on the power play with that shot. And that's something that whenever we discuss his case or where he stacks up against other top defensemen, we don't really

ever really consider that that often. Exactly. I know it's something that Montreal valued and continues to value about him. And, you know, again, it doesn't make up for the trade necessarily. But it is an area that he's having a positive impact for them. And obviously they're trying to win a Stanley Cup right now. And maybe, who knows, maybe that sort of thing could help get them over the top in the short term. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's get into the, we have two awards here left before we sign out. And let's get into the Vezna.

It's, it's Devon Dubex World and we all live in it right now, I think. Yeah, I don't even see a debate at this point. But, I mean, man, what a season this guy said. The rise of the former Oilers has been pretty interesting, even Sam Gagne finding his niche with the Blue Jackets, and now Devin Dubnick having a really good season again in Minnesota. And, you know, he's been a difference maker for them. I believe they're among the team leaders in, say, percentage in the league.

And obviously, he's an individual leader himself. And just hard to poke any holes in what he's done because he's played the minutes, and he still has put up numbers that exceed anyone else around him. Yeah, I mean, he leads in every category. Five and five, say a percentage, overall, you know, quality start percentage, shoutouts, goals against. Like, whatever your cup of T is for goalie analysis, he's probably at the top of the list.

I think where it gets interesting is after that because I have like four or five names here that I'm willing to hear arguments on for which guys should be second, which guy should be third and so on and so forth. But where are you leaning right now? Well, I would say this beyond Devon Dovnik, it's hard to highlight anyone else. in the Western Conference among this discussion because the East seems to have most of the goalies that are putting up numbers. But my next was Sergei Bogrovsky.

In the battle of winning streaks, I guess the two goalies have had a pretty big impact this year. And then at three, I had Kerry Price. Yeah. I think the interesting thing about Bobrovsky, and I had Price and Bobrovsky interchangeable there at two, three, is I'm very curious to see how he holds up this season because he's never played more than, I think, 58 games in a season. season and he's trending towards over 70 right now. I think, uh, I think only the oilers and I think the sharks have used their backup goalie, uh, more infrequently than the blue jackets have thus far.

So I think it would be wise as the year goes along and they've banked some points here to, uh, you know, slow down a little bit with Bobrowski's usage and maybe give McAulay or even call up Corpusalo and give him some starts because, uh, I think that, you know, Boroski has had injury concerns in years past, and it's sort of derailed in the past few seasons, and I wouldn't really be playing around with that too much if I were them. No, especially since they're actually going to be playing games in mid-April and beyond, it looks like. So, I mean, having a view towards the long term is, you know, it's positive. It's funny.

I think I've noticed more of a trend towards, you know, teams in general being, you know, reluctant to play their goalies on back-to-back nights now. We've seen an evolution here, and I don't know if it's just because of some of the stats that have come around or what, but, you know, there's not very many teams that are playing goalies like they used to, frankly, even five years ago. And Bobrovsky's one of the outliers so far this season. Yeah, I think we're definitely seeing. I mean, we used to have that era with guys like Kiprasov and Broder, where they would

just be playing like 75 games a season, and we're just, I don't think we're ever going to see that anymore. Yeah, it's funny. Joe Bowen, who's the Leafs Radio Color guy, or Play-by-Play guy, rather, got really mad at me because he heard me suggest that the Leaf should keep splitting the goalies on the back-to-backs. He said, well, it worked for Glenn Hall and all this. And I was like, oh, come on, man. I mean, just look at the performance league-wide.

I mean, there's a reason for it. And especially teams in the east that play a lot back-to-back. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to risk, you know, injuring your, you know, the guy that, I mean, Bob Rossi's clearly been a big part of the Blue Jacket's success. So if he goes down, their season outlook changes dramatically. Yeah, I mean, especially if you are a team with, you know, bigger picture aspects, and you're hoping to play 20-something playoff games. You definitely want to limit the guy to somewhere between 60 to 65 starts in the season.

I feel like that's a little bit of the sweet spot right now. You mentioned the Western Conference. I actually have Corey Crawford in my top five. Oh, nice. I know he missed a little bit of the season with that injury, but I mean, his 5-on-5% percentage is just incredible. And I think that his overall numbers have been submarineed a little bit just because that penalty-killing unit in front of him was so bad at the start of the year.

but I think that what he's done, just the overall package has to warrant at least some consideration on this list. Yeah, I mean, he's now for sure in any discussion about their core players. I mean, I think that there is an idea when they won some cups with them that he just was along for the ride.

But when you look at the way that team performs, to me, they're not as formidable as they once were, but he's helped keep them among the best in the conference because his play has been so good. So, you know, I can accept. that argument that he's worth the top five for sure at this point because, you know, he's been pretty solid. Yeah, yeah, that was the case last year as well where the performance in front of him declined and he definitely was, they were relying on him to win them games much more than

we're in years past. The last guy I had on this list in my top five and, you know, this is just a Bruin-centric podcast, but I think too Karras needs to be on this list. I'll accept that too. He had a great start. We've seen him kind of slide back a little bit, which is to be expected. But, you know, and I know that you're wearing a spoke to be right now someone in your apartment in Vancouver. So I'm not surprised to hear you put Duke on the list.

Well, the thing that is very impressive to me about his resume here is just that you look at his numbers versus the numbers of every other backup they've tried to play when they've given him a night off, whether it's been Malcolm Suban or Zane McIntyre or Anton Hood-Obin. And they've just been an absolute mess whenever he hasn't been in Ed for them.

I think he's hovering somewhere around a 930 almost for this season, and then without him, it's like an 860 or an 870. It's been horrible. So I think that that has to count for something, just the fact that how much he means to his team. Right. And he's probably well positioned to get a bit more love with, you know, you pointing out that the Bruins in general should get a bit more luck.

He's going to produce more wins. And he'll probably, if they climb up the Atlantic standings, get a little bit more attention for his season as well. Yep. let's finish off the discussion with with the heart McDavid versus Crosby is pretty much how this is going to be

how this is going to shake out of the end of the season I think Yeah and to me If you're going by the spirit of the award It has to be McDavid Because you know the player adjudged to be most valuable To his team I mean there's not really an argument there As great as Crosby's been

You know that McDavid is you know Has you know far inferior teammates And has had such a big impact On the oiler success and put them in a playoff position at this point. To me, it's sort of a slam dunk for him. And it's not to say that. I mean, Crosby's scoring just, what, 0.9 goals per game, you know, this year. But, you know, he's also a guy of getting Malcolm and Phil Kessel in the top 10 and scoring along with them. And, you know, I just don't think the Penguins rely on him to the same degree for their success as Edmonton does with Connor.

Right. I mean, I will say that at the beginning of the year with Crosby out, it was definitely, it was like, it was pretty clear that how much they missed him. Like, he makes so many things. happen for them just by elevating guys, like whether it's like a Connor Shiri or a Brian Russ, whoever happens to be playing with him at that given time, like he makes, it's not just that he's so good, it's that he instantly elevates like two or three more other guys along with him for the ride. So Crosby is amazing. But I think that even if you go, you know, we always have this most valuable player versus most outstanding player debate. I think if you like search up the word outstanding in the dictionary, I think Connor McDavid's picture shows up. So I think, you

Either way you go with this, I think you could make a very strong, I mean, for McDavid winning this award. Right, but I think if you remove the team aspect in your judgment, I mean, Crosby season, I don't know where it's going to go, because it does look like, you know, he's probably riding some unsustainable shooting percentages. You know, for him to put up this kind of goal scoring season and if it were to continue, I think that there's a strong argument for him because, you know, we've seen so much of him and we've seen so much greatness from him, but it's a new kind of greatness again. You know, I just think that ultimately voters listen to the, can we just change the award? I mean, it's such a strange way to look at it. I mean, if the Oilers missed the playoffs, will McDavid look as, will that change the view of it? You know what I mean? I just find it complicated when we're not just judging who's the best player in the league is that season.

Yeah, I feel like if the Oilers missed a playoffs, it would definitely hurt McDavid's chances just in the eyes of the voters. But I think that's a mistake. I mean, it's the splits with and. without him for the Oilers as a team are very jarring. Like, they're without him, there, there's been all these arguments about, you know, how guys like Chris Russell and Milan Lutrich, and whoever they've brought in has changed the, you know, the way this team plays and done all these little intangibles to fix things. But at the end of the day, none of this will be possible without McDavid.

And you just look without him, they're pretty much the same Oilers as they've been in the years past. Really, the only difference is that they're so good when he's in the ice that it's kind of just dragging everything along with him. Right. It's hardly a sexy opinion, but I've been lucky with his six or seven Euler games this year. And man, like you just can't, even if you didn't know anything about hockey, I feel like he would stand out to you. There's not even nuance there. He's just so impressive when he's on the ice. Even the shifts that not a lot ends up happening in terms of results. I mean, he just puts the other team on its heels. And, you know, there was, once a debate three months ago, you know, is this going to be the year? He's ready to take over. And basically from the puck drop, he's done that. So, You know, he's, he's been awesome, and, you know, he's clearly the next best player in the world, and Crosby's trying to fend him off as long as he can. Yeah, yeah, I think that's well said.

CJ, man, thanks for coming on to chat. And I hope you have a happy and safe New Year's Eve celebration, and I'm looking forward to chatting with you in 2017. Sounds good, Dimitri. Thanks for another year, pal. Absolutely. Talk to you, man. The Hockey PEOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim,

and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud.com slash HockeyPedioCast.