The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 131: Capital Gains

Episode Date: January 19, 2017

Jon Press joins the show to discuss the elephant in the room that makes it difficult to fully enjoy regular season success as a fan of the Washington Capitals, how this year's team differs from past incarnations, and what the future holds for the organization. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:45 The Winning Streak 8:40 The job Brian MacLellan has done 14:45 Trade Deadline Needs 19:05 Optimal Line Configurations 23:00 John Carlson's skills vs. results 28:00 Looming Expansion Draft 32:30 Nate Schmidt Fan Club Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, and Stitcher. All past episodes can be found here in chronological order. Make sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews of the show are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich. and joining me is my good buddy John Press from Japer's Rink. John, what's going on, man? Not all that much. How are you? I'm good, man. I'm good. I feel like it's Caps Week over in the Filippovich headquarters. I just wrote a big article for them for Sports Night that I'll be

running at some point this week, and now we're going to spend this full podcast adopting the Caps. You're going to come on board and help me do so. Sounds good. So I don't know if this is me just misreading the situation or if is actually the case. But for whatever reason, it feels like this Caps win streak that just ended on a Monday night in Pittsburgh where they won nine in a row and outscored teams like 40 to 11 and just really eviscerated some good playoff teams amongst that list. It kind of feels like it snuck up on people a little bit where it didn't get the sort of national attention some of the other

winning streaks. Other teams have had this season. I think a lot of that probably has to do with expectations where, you know, if a team like Columbus or Minnesota rattles off 10 plus wins in a row, people are going to be like, whoa, like this is so totally out of the ordinary, what's going on here, whereas with the caps, they were really good last year. We expected them to be really good again this year. So when a good team wins a lot of games in a row, no one really kind of bats an eye. But I don't know, do you think it was one of those things where it sort of just kind of came and went without much fanfare, or were people actually getting worked up about it? I think that it sort of started somewhat under the radar.

you know, for the first half of the season, I think that the caps were pretty inconsistent team. You know, they'd show flashes of the team that we think that they are. That is a very good team. You know, they had a big win over the penguins earlier in the year. Then they had a couple more good wins early on, but it was pretty inconsistent. you had Alex Ovechkin and and Gennie Kuznetsov were not playing the kind of hockey we'd grown somewhat accustomed to them playing.

In fact, they were both pretty far down the team's ranks in terms of shot metrics and production as well for Kiznetsov certainly, not dated back basically the end of last January. But they sort of turned the corner and put together a few good wins. They had that big comeback against the lease in which Braden Holpe got yanked and the Katzstormed back won that game in overtime.

Then they thumped the blue jackets to end their streak. And I think that's sort of the game that made people sort of stand up and take notice. That was the fourth of the nine wins in a row that they got. then they went into Ottawa, shut them out for the, for Holti's second shut out in a row, went into Montreal, beat them Handley 4-1, beat Pittsburgh, 5-2, beat Chicago, 6-Zip, beat the Flyers, five-zip. So I think everybody was looking, was taking notice by, certainly by the end of that streak.

And, you know, I think it is sort of the expectation that this is a team that most people fairly expect to be towards the top of the standings, and they weren't quite playing that type of hockey and certainly not getting those results that we'd expect through much of the early part of the winter, and they were overshadowed by that Columbus streak by some of Pittsburgh's little runs here, and that early stretch where the Rangers were scoring,

like five goals a game or whatever they were doing. They were just sort of laying in the weeds, and now they took that step forward, I think, with this streak. Well, and I think that, you know, you can probably speak to this better than I can as a fan of the team, but the way we treat the Capitals is so weird to me. It's like we're just kind of walking around our tippy toes and we're discussing them because of this big playoff elephant in the room.

And one of the reasons why I honestly don't love writing about them too much during the regular season is because like you you can lay out all of these well thought out stats and compelling arguments to show you know why they're trending in the right direction why they're playing so well while all the all these things they're doing right are important and then you know you just know that there's going to be this kind of large segment of people out there that'll just interject with yeah but playoffs and it's like you just don't really know kind of what to what to what to say to that sort of stuff it's like well i guess you kind of got me there i have no counter to that it's true they haven't when they haven't won the Stanley Cup.

It's like, it's weird to me that we can't, for whatever reason, seem to appreciate their regular season greatness without this sort of thing looming in the background, kind of this ominous thing that's going to happen in the playoffs. Yeah, for sure. I mean, that is, that's there. That's omnipresent. It's not just among fans. It's not just among analysts.

I think that the players would be the first ones to tell you that this is nice and we're concerned with the, process and doing things the right way, but ultimately there's nothing that they can prove as to how good they actually are until April and May. And so I feel the exact same way. I mean, you say you don't like writing them out. We have to do it every single day. You know, every time they win a game, a big game or something, you know, there's a segment

of people who are going to say, oh, you're going to hang a banner for that or, you know, some other line that we've been hearing for 10 years now, just about how the regular season success doesn't mean all that much. And, you know, personally, there's obviously some validity to it, but me personally, I tend to consume hockey as an entertainment product. And if the only way you're going to actually enjoy the entertainment product as if they win their last game of the season in June, then maybe sports isn't necessarily the entertainment products of you.

I mean, if you can't enjoy some of these stretches, look, since I posted something through, I think this was on Sunday morning, that to that point, since Barry Trots took over the Caps had the number one goal scorer in the league. This is since the beginning of 2014-15 season. Right. number one goal score, number one assist getter in Baxter,

he was tied with Eric Carlson, the most wins in the NHL, the best power play in the NHL, the number one goalie wins in Holt B in the NHL, I think they were third in penalty kill over the stretch. And, you know, that's frankly been a dominant team that just hasn't obviously taken that next step to get out of the second round of the playoffs because of, you know, bad fortune, maybe some other things that happen that time of year.

But, you know, I don't think, you know, I don't think it takes away from how good they've been in the regular season. And I don't think that's something that should be ignored either. Yeah, I mean, so much of, you know, we're not breaking any ground here with this revelation, but so much winning in the playoffs, particularly in hockey is just timing and good fortune. and that can materialize in a number of different ways, right? It could be like actual puck bounces in individual games. It could be injuries. It can be a hot goalie.

It can be who you draw in a match-up. Like, you know, it could be playing the best team in hockey in the second round of the playoffs, you know, which could very well happen again to whoever comes out of the first round in the Metro Division. Anyway, you know, the way that the playoffs are set up, you know, the caps ran into the penguins. The Penguins were just a great team last spring. And through no fault of their own, you know, they go through winner president's trophy, and their reward is they get to play the best team,

or maybe arguably the second best team. And hockey in the second round. So, yeah, I mean, it happens, you know. Yeah, the Metro Division is a fun place to be in these days. I think what separates this Caps team from even the one last year, though, which was, you know, great in its own right, is the depth. And I think that the article that I mentioned earlier goes into this at greater length. But I think that what Brian McClellan has done here in terms of, he inherited a team with, you know, a clear, established nucleus and core of stars.

But every summer, I know you've pointed this out online, he's basically kind of called his shot and then he's done it. Like, first he pointed out that he needed to kind of fix the blue line and he went and got a guy like Matt Niskin. And then he, you know, he needed to fix the scoring depth on the win. and then he gets Justin Williams and T.J. O'Shee. And then third line center and he goes on against Lars Eller at the draft. And I think what is kind of, I don't know, if ironic is the right word, but at least from my perspective, it is a bit what kind of what ultimately did in his predecessor, George McPhee, especially in those final few years there,

where he kind of was unable to surround guys like Kovachina and backs from what the requisite amount of talent around them is something that I think that Brian McClellon has done a really admirable job of doing in his few years as the G. of the team. Yeah, I think that Mac definitely deserves a lot of credit. Obviously, George McPhee deserves a decent amount of credit for building the foundation of this team. Braden Holpe was there when Brian McEwellyn arrived.

Obviously, Ovecgin was obviously Backstrom, guys like Carlson-Alesner and on down. But McPhee definitely, we're... was unable to, in particular, address the defense, and there was a persistent hole at second-line center that never seemed quite fixed, and they never settled really on who the goalie was going to be during those stretches. And, yeah, I mean, it was the team around, Ovecquen the team around Baxter, and, you know, Brian McQuillan's been able to address a lot of those.

issues. He's built a team around them that has the depth, I think, that can compete. And, you know, you saw it not to keep going back to Pittsburgh, but you saw them as a three or four line team. Certainly when they played the caps in that series, it wasn't Sidney Crosby that did the Capsin. It wasn't Evgeny Malkin that did the Capsin. It was that Kessel line. It was, you know, really the bottom six that was the difference in that series, and the Caps bottom six wasn't able to keep up with them. I mean, the Caps did a good job shutting down Sidney Crosby in that series, but it was really the Penguin's depth that gave them the edge, ultimately.

And so they went out, and like you said, they got Lars Eller, who's been terrific for the Caps, even if the production hasn't necessarily, been there prior to that two-goal game against the penguins. But, I mean, basically, anybody you put Lars Eller with on the third line has just dominated. I mean,

through a couple days ago, the current incarnation of it with Barakowski and Brett Connolly, who, you know, Brett Connolly was, is basically coming out of the recycle bin for this cap scene. They were at about 60% in adjusted course. So, you

know, they've been a strong third line and that's going to be go a long way to determining how far this team can go is that third line and frankly the fourth line with Winnick Beagle and Tom Wilson's been quite good as well yeah yeah no I joke about how

I think Eller's having like the best season anyone on pace for 10 goals and 20 points has ever had but it is kind of true where he's just tilting the ice at such an extreme level of this point at 5-15 that it's making a big difference. I think that, you know, I know there's Habs fans out there, the kind of watch this guy closely for years, and he sort of tantalized them.

You know, he'd have these stretches where he would actually also have the offensive production, and he'd go on these binges particularly early in the year, and you'd think you'd kind of talk yourself into being like, oh, maybe he's going to finally put it all together and actually, you know, have the offensive production with this sort of underlying stuff. And it's never really materialized, and I think at this point he's been in the league long,

enough for us to sort of hypothesize that it's probably never really going to happen for him like that, but that doesn't mean that he can't be wildly effective. And I think he's really been a bit of a game changer here where now once you have guys beyond Baxterman, Kuznetsov, they're down the middle, it's kind of tough to game plan around this team just because, especially when they're at home, they can kind of send that Ler line out against anyone and sort of free up some of these scorelines to do damage up front. Sure. And if Andre Burekowski, you know, he was sat down a couple weeks ago, and since then, he's really sort of found his game. If he can keep it going, he's quite a talent on that line,

and Brett Conley's been quite good as well. So, I mean, that's a solid third line. It's not necessarily the traditional Barry Trott's third line. I don't think. It's not the type of third line that most teams, certainly in Washington and beyond, you know, having a scoring third line, so you're really talking about a top nine rather than a top six, that's big.

That makes a lot of difference, and I think it's certainly the way the game's going, and it breaks some of the traditional thinking about what a third line is or should be. You know, if you can get nine forwards regularly contributing, you're going to be in pretty good shape. Yeah. Okay, well, let's do some big picture stuff here and sort of thinking ahead. If you're running this team at the trade deadline,

what are the needs for this team? What would you do to address any sort of liabilities they might have? Because, you know, maybe I think you would kind of quibble if you could find like a better version of a J. Beagle type. He's been kind of getting buried a bit lately. But, I mean, he is sort of having these crazy defensively slanted minutes. And I feel like everyone is probably going to kind of not looks so glowingly in shot metrics with that sort of usage. I guess you could use another body for

the blue line, but if you're going to do so, make sure you actually get a good one and not a Mike Weber type from last year. I feel like these are all sort of real luxuries at this point because it's pretty clear that this team doesn't have any sort of obvious holes that you can kind of point at and be like, we need to fix this by the traded line. But if you are sort of kind of adding to it somewhere, where would you be looking? Yeah, I mean, I think that up front there, They're pretty set. You could always use another middle six type forward, maybe a guy who can kill penalties.

But, I mean, you look at their penalty kill. It's been terrific this year. And guys like Jay Beagle, certainly Tom Wilson, Daniel Winnick, they've been a big part of that, Eller as well. So I don't think they'd be looking so much there, maybe adding a depth guy. I mean, and if you lose a skill guy, They've got a guy like Iacabrana down in Hershey, who looked good when he was here as well,

who could probably slide into a role, say, Barakoski or Marcus Johansson or somebody like that, were suddenly unavailable. I think that their biggest need would be on the blue line. Ideally, you know, everybody's looking for top four defensemen, especially a right-handed, guy to play in the top four or whatever. I think that, you know, in a dream world, that would be the kind of guy you'd be looking at. But with the caps where they are relative to the cap, it would basically have to be a dollar in,

dollar out type move. So, you know, that's not very realistic, I don't think. You know, nobody's going to be begging them for Brooks Orpick right now. And even if you were a... able to move him, which obviously in some sort of upgrade move would be ideal, you're still at about six NHL defensemen. And like you said, you know, you want to add at least one guy there, but, you know, the past two years it's been a Mike Weber and Tim Gleason, and those aren't the kind of

guys that this team should be acquiring. and in part because they're obviously not terribly good, but also those two guys were almost like, like Barry Trotz's safety net or something. Like when a Schmidt or an Orlov would make a mistake, it would be, all right, go to the old reliable chip off the glass guy, who, you know, gritty heart guy or whatever. And it's just not workable.

And, I mean, you can see still some of those tendencies in Barry Trots, although I give him a lot of credit, you know, they have this $5 million guy in Brooks Orpick, who basically has been relegated to third-line minutes this year on an incredibly effective third pairing with Nate Schmidt. But with John Carlson out of the lineup against Pittsburgh, it was Orpick that slid into those top three. and it's a not Schmidt who it, you know, probably should be,

especially against a team like Pittsburgh, I would think. So, you know, those proclivities, I think, are still there for Trots. So just don't give him the toys to play with and, you know, ease his decision-making a little bit with a guy who can actually skate the puck a little bit. Yeah, man, maybe save very shots from himself. Exactly. So another thing that kind of interests me about this team is, let's say you're looking ahead to a matchup with a team like Pittsburgh come to postseason.

I think from a sort of lineup construction perspective, do you think that their best chance to win is the way the lines are currently constructed right now with Ovechkin playing with Baxter and Oshy? And then you have the second line with Justin Williams and Ivgeny Kuznetsov. Or do you think that you'd experiment with what they did earlier this year where you separate Ovechkin and Baxter and maybe use Baxter as more of a, sort of shut down center and potentially free up Ovechkin with Kuznetsov. It's not something we've necessarily really seen him do, particularly in the playoffs, where I think that only like 30 of Ovechkin's 150 or so minutes of 5-1-5 last year,

and the postseason came with Kuznetsov. He's usually kind of strapped to Baxter's hip, but is that something you'd explore to sort of give yourself more versatility and potentially play the matchups, or would you just kind of go with old reliable and sort of what's got you there over the years? well i mean that's certainly that's certainly the default and what they always end up coming back to but uh i've i've always been a big advocate of uh splitting backsterman ovechkin uh and probably going ovechkin kisn kisn kisov o'shi and then you can put together uh johansen baxterm and

justin williams and i mean that's just going to be a dominant possession line that's going to be like a patrice burgeron style shutdown line where uh you're shutting down guys because other teams because they simply don't have the puck. And, you know, that's a line that we've seen in stretches playing way above, you know, the teams, of course, he playing in the, you know, 55 to 60 range consistently, which would, you know, if the third line stayed up that high, that would be a middle six. I would take six out of every ten shots

that's going to be pretty good but you know you put his nuts off and ovechkin together and like you can almost see Trots's heart jumping out of his jazz you know it's

there's only so many games he's going to be able to watch those guys I think but you know I think it makes them hard to defend and spreading it out a little bit

probably is a good way to go especially when you've got when you're playing against a team like Pittsburgh. I think that that also gives you an opportunity perhaps to play a backstrom line

with like with Carlson and Olsner if they keep that pair together and that pair struggled quite a bit which is perhaps unsurprising. They haven't had ton of success in recent years together, but, you know, their numbers are so much worse than other pairs that, you know, they've got to figure out a way to straighten out that pair,

but, you know, in the meantime, I think they could play that pair with dominant possession forwards and probably mitigate the problems they're having, and meanwhile, play maybe Niskin and Orlov with that, Ovechkin, Kuznetsov. Oshy Trio and have a pretty effective group there. So, you know, it's a long-winded way of saying that, yeah, I'm all for giving teams different looks and for splitting up Ovechkin and Baxter, but eventually it all ends up back together with those two guys. So we'll see.

Yeah, I think it's a fascinating chess match to sort of keep an eye on. but I'm glad you mentioned Carlson because I wanted to pick your brain about him. I wonder if you have any theories as to why. Like, Carlson has always been sort of the poster child for me in terms of the type of player that there's a pretty clear mismatch between, like, if you just watched him and you just took his individual skills and you just looked at him and the way he plays, you'd think, wow, this guy could be like one of the best most impactful defensemen in the league. Like, he kind of does everything well.

He looks so impressive out there just as a physical specialist. investment, but then you kind of look at, you dig through his actual numbers and there's, there's some sort of a mismatch there, whether it's something in his game that isn't kind of adding up or is submarining the rest of it or what, but like he's been a perfectly fine player by the numbers, but it feels like he could be even better, but for whatever reason it just hasn't really materialized. Do you have any sort of theories as to why that would be, or, I don't know. Is it also a conundrum for you? No, I mean, it is. I think in a lot of ways, he's maybe regressed over the past few years,

certainly sort of plateaued. He was very good early on. In fact, with Alsner, the two of them were a terrific top pair at a really young age. And Carlson sort of plateaued or took a step back. I don't think this season, I'm not concerned. convinced he's been 100% healthy at any point in this season yet. And now he's out again with something that seems to be short-term. And I think playing with partnered with Orlov forced him to play a little more conservative

role, whereas he was sort of the reliable guy of the pair, whereas in the past he's had a little more free range, you know, debatable playing with Brooks Orpick for as long as he did, you know, who the dependable guy there is, but at least in terms of roles and, you know, expectations from the coaching staff and everything, I think that he would, Day Carlson would be sort of the guy who had a little more freedom in that pair. And then when he gets put with Orlov, you know, he's suddenly the guy who has to cover up when Orlov's doing his occasional whoopsie routine at the opposing Blue Line or whatever. So I think that's part of it.

And it really is a little bit mind-boggling, particularly because Todd Reardon, the captain-assistant coach that coaches up, the defenseman, is a really terrific coach. and he's brought a lot of guys along from, you know, in his time in Pittsburgh or in Washington, you know, you look at a guy like Nate Schmidt and where his game is now, or the leap that Dmitriorov's made or how good Matt Niskin in his, you know, and these are, I think a lot of them can be directly attributable to Todd Reardon's coaching, and I think that he's going to be a coach, a guy that's going to get a lot of looks for head coaching gigs

in the not too distant future. But on Carlson, you know, I think you're exactly right. Like the tools are there. Something's not quite clicking for him, and they need to get that straightened out because he looked like he was on the path to, you know, being a legit top pair guy.

I think he could be a legit top pair guy with the right partner still. But, you know, when we mention that they could be looking for a defenseman or that's what they would ideally need, you know, when you look at the teams that have gone to the finals or have had a lot of success in recent years, they've had that stud guy, whether it's, you know, a Brent Burns or a Latang or a Duncan Keith or Drew Dowdy or anything. like that. And, you know, the Caps don't have that guy as good as Matt Niskin and is in all three zones, and I think he is quite good. And as good as Carlson can be at times, you know, they still don't have that big stud

number one guy that a lot of these teams that have had success. Not that that's the only way to do it, but, you know, it certainly has been sort of a common theme among a lot of these teams. Well, I think that what they... do with their blue line is it's a good segue. I did want to talk about one other big thing with you before I let you go and switching gears a little bit. But, you know, we discussed sort of looking ahead and how you'd approach the trade deadline. I think that the other thing that's going to really impact the trade deadline this season is sort of how teams manage trying to kind of win now and

bring in pieces to help them make a run this postseason versus keeping a close eye on how the decisions are going to influence the upcoming expansion draft and who they'll be able to protect versus keep exposed. And I think with a team like the Capitals, you know, listen, when you have a, when you're a really good team and you have a ton of really good players, chances are you're probably going to wind up losing someone you'd rather not lose. It's just sort of the price of doing business. And it's kind of the curse of being such a deep, well-assembled team. But I think when you're looking at this roster, like, which name worries you, which is like the worst-case scenario that worries you in terms of something they could do and keep a guy exposed and then wind up losing him and then coming back to haunt them? Like, is it? kind of losing a guy like Demetri Orlov, or what do you think it's going to happen this summer with that? Yeah, first of all, I don't think that they're approaching the trade deadline with much concern about what's going to happen in the expansion draft. I think that they know sort of where this team is, what their window is, and I don't think they're going to, you know, hamper their chances there, just to avoid losing a guy at the expansion draft. For example, I don't think that they're going to trade Dmitri Orlov for picks

because they're worried about possibly losing him this summer. I think that they'd take this playoff run with Orlov over that return if they were presented with that. I think that that's not the concern. to me, I think the concern is that they value Carl Osner a little higher than they ought to, and

I think he'll be the third defenseman along with Miskin and Carlson, who will be locked up. I mean, they've got to sign him, I guess, first, but then they'll probably lock him up and protect him, maybe. and expose a guy like Orlov or a guy like Schmidt. But, you know, they've got some decent guys there.

They can only lose one of them, I guess. So, you know, at most it'll be Orlov or Schmidt or Gru Bauer, although I don't see that necessarily. You know, that's probably the type of guy that I'd be looking at if I was in Vegas. I mean, that would be, the Olsner thing would be the all-time worst-case scenario, right? Like, I like Carlisner as much as the next guy, but he's 28, and he also has a ton of miles. I mean, just with the type of the game he plays, and, you know, we keep celebrating this, this consecutive game streak he's playing. But, like, the fact that he's not ticking any nights off and it's just all accumulating, I feel like it's not going to end well, especially when you hear these reports that, you know, he's going to be kind of looking for, like, a $6 billion per year from,

figure, which is frightening. I think that if you're the caps, like it's one of those scenarios where you just kind of let hope that one of these Western Canada teams just is willing to pick up the tab on that, and you just kind of thank him for his service and all his great years with the team, and you just kind of bid him very well, because if you're paying for him and then kind of compounding it by letting another cheaper, younger, potentially better guy go as well, like that's kind of a horrible double whammy to go through. Yeah, I mean, and they've already got Orpick on the books, you know, basically taking that, you know, to be generous, one-dimensional defenseman moniker at, you know, five plus million dollars a year. So, you know, how many of those guys

can you have and hope to be successful? I don't think the answer to that is very many at all. So, you know, I like Osner. And but I think that, like you were saying, if those reports are accurate, I think that he should be pricing himself out of staying here, at least. I mean, okay, one final thing before I let you go. We can't finish this podcast without discussing Natchman. He's a favorite of certain segments of. of CAP's Twitter. And I think that, you know, he's a really interesting guy because both him and

Orlov are RFAs this summer and will need new deals. And they're both 25 years old. I think that, you know, just based off the fact of how much Orlov is already making this here compared to Schmidt and sort of the points he's accumulating, I think it's fair to say Orlov will come with a heftier price tag. The question that I have with Schmidt is, do you think that, you know, he's already proven that he's sort of this reliable defensive defenseman type in his own zone. But he also has this great skating ability. And I think that he's definitely the past couple weeks, I feel like maybe just anecdotally that I've been watching more closely. He's, he's been flashing more skill with a puck and kind of trying to do more things than he has in the past. Do you think that

that's a sign that he has more kind of untapped upside? Or do you think he's maybe just one of these like kind of five, six defensemen? Maybe he can be on the back half of your second pairing, but you don't kind of want to get too carried away with a guy like that. Yeah, I mean, he is absolutely excelled as a third pair defenseman under Barry Trots. This year with Orpick. Last year it was with Orlov

as that third pair. And the year before, it was basically with Mike Green when Schmidt was playing. It was with Green. He's been terrific in that role. He's had some success playing up the

depth chart a little bit. Obviously, as you would expect, is a little less consistently good in those roles. But he's a great example of what I think a modern depth defenseman should be in that he can skate really well. He can pass. And he probably, I haven't checked in on any of the zone entry data, But I'd imagine that he is by far the cat's best defenseman at gaining the zone with the puck under control.

I mean, you know, you've probably seen it a few times in the past couple weeks or so. You know, he's driving through the neutral zone, carrying the puck in, getting below the goal line at times. He's really doing things. I think he's a terrific 5-6. he could evolve into a second pair guy probably with the right partner. But he's really done a great job and done absolutely everything that the team has asked of him basically since day one. And he's a terrific asset to have and probably is not going to break the bank anytime soon,

certainly not if he's not getting any power play time. and not getting more time with some of the top lines and racking up the points since, I guess, unless you're Carlisner, that's how you get paid is by putting up the points. So, you know, he should be affordable, and hopefully he's here for a while. Yeah, yeah, I'm a big fan of his game.

John, where can people check you out online and check out your fine work? Yeah, so we're japersrink.com on SB Nation. I'm at Japer's Rink That's mostly me Tweeting out of that site So send all your hate mail My way

But that's You know That's where we're at We're doing this thing And like the team I guess Kind of slogging through the dog days And waiting to prove ourselves

Come springtime Yeah well listen We'll wait to see How you do in the postseason But you're doing some fine work In the regular season And I'm not afraid to enjoy all the work you're doing now.

That's right. We got to enjoy it because this is a good stuff. Who knows what comes next. Yeah. All right, man. Well, thanks for taking the time to chat and hopefully we'll be able to get you back on as the year goes along here. Definitely for sure. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri

Filippovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedeocast.