The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 143: A Budding Dynamic

Episode Date: February 23, 2017

James Mirtle joins the show to discuss the historical greatness of this year's top rookies, whether the Leafs can afford to continue playing such a high-octane style with their current personnel, and his interactions with The Most Interesting Man in the Hockey World. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 0:25 How the coach sees it vs. How everyone else sees it 3:15 Dealing with Mike Babcock 5:10 The historical context of the Calder Trophy race 10:44 Freddie Andersen vs. the defense in front of him 15:11 Matthews vs. Marner vs. Nylander 20:09 Putting the $15M in cap space to good use 23:40 The need for a top defenseman 26:46 Expectations for the trade deadline 28:50 The Anaheim Ducks as a powder keg for trades 33:15 1-on-1 with Lou Lamoriello Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theas, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl Defensive Inn, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React. R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family. Expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies.

It is literally made to chill. Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Progressing to the mean since 2050, it's the HockeyPedioCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey Pediocast.

My name is Dimitri Philpovich. And joining me is the Athletics Head Honcho, James Myrtle. James, what's going on, man? Head honcho. Sounds good, man. I'm good. Good, good. Yeah, I'm sure you're still energized

after that game you were at last night. That, I don't know if you watched the least every time. That probably had to be the best Leaves game of the season. And it's been an exciting season full of games like that with, you know, it'd be great if every game in the NHL was like that. And that's always been my argument for one of the reasons why, we need more scoring in hockey. It's not so much that a low-scoring game can't be exciting.

It's that you want to have kind of the tension that all those lead changes bring and the idea in the back of your mind that a team could always come back. And with teams like the Leafs that aren't that defensively sound and that have blown so many third-period leads, you do have that in the back of your mind, but probably not for the right reasons. And I thought it was so funny after the game that Paul Maurice, the Jets coach called it a dog of a game.

When, you know, everybody in the building, like all of the media and the players and the 19,000 plus fans that were there, they all loved it. So, you know, I guess that's one of the problems is the coaches don't want to see games like that. Yes. And, well, it's also true for, like, the funny thing is for everything that was happening and there was so much back and forth action, all the storylines between Lion and Matthews and everything like that. And I know a lot of people were kind of making jokes about, like, how fitting it be if while Matthews was. in the box line it got the hatcher goal to win it but the entire time i was thinking like man i just really hope we don't have to sit through a lot of four on four o t if the beliefs kill off this penalty here because three on three o t is somehow still coach proof i feel like like what we all thought by now that coaches would have gone back to their you know fun sucking lab and figured out a way to make adjustments to really just slow it down and and and and and kill all the fun out of it but it's still this is the second year now and it feels like it's still kind of like just as fun

as it was last year, I feel like. I looked at those numbers, the 3-on-3 numbers. Oh, man, it was when I wrote about the shootout, I think it was six or seven weeks ago, when Guy Boucher was in town, and he said he hated the shootout and he refused to watch it. Three-and-three's gotten a little bit lower scoring. Last year was the first year, I believe,

and then this year, they're starting to figure it out a little bit. They're starting to take the fun out of it a little bit. And you and I both know that, you know, four years from now or whatever, three-on-three is going to lose its magic the way that 4-and-4 did as coaches figure it out. I mean, even, I know they were killing a penalty, but to see the Leafs start overtime with Komarov and Polack out there,

and their sole goal is obviously they're killing a penalty. But the fact is that bleeds over into after the penalty kill. And then, you know, they had Hunwick and Polack, and I can't remember who the forward was out there. But, you know, it's interesting that as soon as they got some more talented players out there, the Leaf scored last night. Yeah, well, I feel like every coach is. probably just so risk-averse,

and they'd love to just, you know, get out of the arena with a, with an ugly 2-1 win where nothing really happened, and they weren't pulling their hair all the entire time. But unfortunately, that's been, like, the opposite of pretty much every Leafs game this year, which, how's Mike about Babcock handling

the sort of like up and down, bumping nature of the season for them? You know what? He's seen everything, so good. He's been good. You know, he's... He hasn't gone to order yet with you? no no really not I mean

he um he doesn't suffer fools that's for sure so if you're asking something really dumb but I think he's been really good I mean he's almost the perfect fit for Toronto to be honest he's he's no nonsense but he's not a jackass about it you know he's not like I like John Wilson because he was such a great he knew hockey so well he was such a lifer he knew everything about the game

and he was a smart guy in the way that he could talk about players and whatever. But then he just had this personality, I don't know, tick or something where he just was very negative. And if he was in a bad mood that day, he would go after somebody. And Babcock doesn't have that. I mean, Babcock, Babcock's just there to win. He's just a machine in a coach's body that is, you know,

like in the Terminator movies, only that he's the coach there that's just there to win. He's not there to make enemies with the media. He's not there to do any of that crap. He's just there to make his players better and win hockey games. Seems like reasonable objectives for an NHL coach. Yeah, but you know what I mean? Like, he's singularly focused. You know, it doesn't have, doesn't worry about all the other crap that's going on.

Yeah, I respect that. So, listen, there was a ton of, as I mentioned, storylines and sort of excitement in yesterday's game. And I think the game really featured a bit of everything, except maybe good goaltending, I suppose. But, like, the big storyline, obviously, was Matthews versus line, and here in Canada. Canada, like all the markets were running with it and making all the comparisons and all that.

And I completely get from a marketing standpoint why that happens and stuff. But I don't really want to focus on, like, who should be rookie of the year per se, because there's still like 20-something games left for both of them. And it seems silly to be making definitive cases either way right now, a lot could change. But I think just like sort of a nice little discussion here about the differences between them and just sort of what they're doing in a historical context is relevant because I was looking at just the goal scoring numbers, for example. And I mean, both guys could conceivably crack 40 goals. And we've only seen that. Like, I think Slani at 76, Ovechkin at 52, Joe Noondike at 51, and Lindrake at 41. And

Crosby stopped just short at 39 in that Ovechkin season. But I mean, it's conceivable that Linae and Matthews could both crack 40 goals here if they have a good end to the season. And we just haven't really seen anything like this ever in the past. No, and I haven't done the math yet. But someone should go in and scale up their goals and their points and everything based on how low scoring this era is and kind of where I was looking at it a little bit last night. You know, I was looking at teenage rookies because that's what both these guys are. They're very young.

So if you cut out the salanias, the guys that came over when they were 22 or 23 years old, you know, an even more elite group. It depends if he could consider Gretzky to be a rookie or not because he played that year in the WHA. Let's say he's not. Then you get into, you know, Crosby who is one of the best of 120.

points, but if you scaled them up, they're on pace for, Line's on pace for 73 points, and Matthews is on pace for 72, that's with Line M missing eight games. You scale them up, they're probably into the, they're probably into like the 90 point range

in adjusted, and Crosby's maybe a little over 100. So, I mean, like they're approaching some of the best seasons we've ever seen for really young first year players in the NHL. It's, it's, It's pretty awesome, actually.

And I think the thing that's particularly good is that after all these years in the wilderness for Canada's NHL teams, this is just going to really reignite interest. And I've covered the Leafs for going back to 07 or 08, and I've seen the interest really erode. You know, last year, I think fans understood what was happening last year, but after all the collapses and all that, then to go into last season where it was basically just a lost cause of a year. And, you know, it's hard to watch games in service to potentially winning a lottery at the end of the year. And I had a lot of really diehard Leafs fans that follow me say that this is the first year of my whole life that I'm not watching the games.

I'm just not watching anymore. I'm just, I've just tuned out of the Leafs. And, you know, there have been, the last two years, there have been games that haven't sold out at the ACC. There have been games where there are tons of empty seats in lower bowl because people just decide not to show up. If it's a Tuesday night in Minnesota's in town or something, people just don't come regardless of how expensive the tickets are. I've seen things in Toronto with the eroding of the fan base and the interest level.

And it feels like, you know, we've been saying this in the press box a little bit, that it feels like it hasn't come back to the level it should be, given how great this season is. I think that this year has been about as good a first, I don't know if you want to call it first year to rebuild, but like a first year after the disaster that was last year. I mean, them being in 12th or 13th place in the NHL in terms of points percentage, it's unreal. It's about as good and improvement. And I feel like the city hasn't really embraced that yet.

It's like they're skeptical or something or it's coming. The building has been getting louder. and there's been that the height machine and the media has been picking up a little bit. But I feel like if there wasn't all of those years in the wilderness that the city would be going crazier right now than it is. Well, I think that's a thing that kind of gets left out of the discussion when we talk about how teams are incentivized the tank. And they really should based on the current structure to try and load up on as much young talent as they can. But it's like someone has to go to those games and pay for those tickets and buy the merchandise. and if you're just watching like a shell of a team that isn't even attempting,

like isn't even pretending like they're trying to score goals or win games, then it's like it's a really tough sell to the fan base and you do have to account for that a little bit. Yeah, but in Toronto's case, they got lucky because they really only did that one year. I mean, the other years where they got Marner and Nealander and Riley, they were just, they were bad by accident. It wasn't on purpose. You know, they were trying to win those years. It's just, it's remarkable.

kind of the level of incompetence that has been here in management until now. And it's almost weird working in the media. It's been almost a decade for me. Now they make a move, and it's like, yeah, that makes sense. That's a good move. Or, wow, they got Babcock. Or, wow, they drafted the right guy and won the draft lottery. And it just really feels like not only do they have relatively smart people in charge,

but they're also getting some of the breaks are going their way as well. Yeah, I mean, if you're trading like, if the most questionable thing they've done this year is trading like a depth AHL defenseman for Sergey Kalinin, like that's a big change from where they were at in years past. Well, I think we can debate things like signing Matt Martin to a four-year deal or, you know, trading two relatively high draft picks for Anderson and giving him the contract that he's got. You know, Anderson has not looked good for a long. I think it's 19 games now where his safe percentage is around. around 890. I mean, he's, it's not getting talked about a whole lot

because he had that stretch before that, that was so good. But his highs and his lows have been, I've been concerning, to be honest. I mean, he has to be a number one with what they're paying him

and the term they gave him. And we'll see, you know, I kind of still think he might just top out as kind of like an average guy. And Dom Blishish-Zan wrote a really cool thing about, at the athletic,

about measuring if, if Anderson's, basically his highs and his lows if his streaks are more pronounced than most goalies and he found that they were and that he is a little bit streakier based on the data that we've got. I think the most impressive thing we're going to have in this podcast

is you pronouncing Dom's name like that just effortlessly I have no idea if that's how you sound like. I think that one you just have to, I kind of think of it like Curtis Leithsion but I know it's spelled differently but that's my frame of reference so that's what I'm going on. I mean you pull it off so coolly that I didn't even tell it for a second.

Yeah, that's the all up in the room of this team. And I think that, you know, while Anderson certainly hasn't been particularly good, like, we also have to look at what's happening in front of him. And I mean, the five and five numbers aren't pretty, right? Like, they're like bottom five, I feel like, we're definitely bottom 10 in pretty much everything, whether it's shot attempts on block, shot attempts, shots on goal, scoring chances, what have you. And I mean, just look at like even something as simple as goals against per game this season, which isn't like, you know, cutting edge stuff. It's like the only teams that are giving up more goals on them are the avs, stars, jets, coyotes, red wings, and flyers.

And I don't think any of those teams are going to make the playoffs this year. So it's like, it's, it kind of speaks to the double-edged sword or sort of the give and take they have with this team where they're so fun and they play such a high pace with just kind of getting into this run and gun back and forth where they're trading shots and chances. But at the same time, it's leading to a lot of lapses and breakdowns in their own zone. And that's certainly not doing Anderson any favors. Yeah, that's true. I mean, I've been thinking about this a lot.

I mean, do you think it makes sense to be that kind of high event team and go for a high, like, try and build a team that's going to have high goals for, even if it means you're going to have high goals against? Like, it seems to me that if you do that, you probably have a greater chance of having a higher overall shot differential and overall goal differential over kind of the long course. I mean, I don't know. It's interesting, like, thought,

Berman if being a high-paced team in the NHL is the way to go. Well, I think if, you know, they are positioned to do so because they do have so much young, high-end skill. Like, I wrote about this with the Canucks, for example, where it's like they're incentivized to slow every game down to a screeching halt and try and just kind of gut out these slow, boring, plotting games because if it gets into a fast-paced game where, like, skill is going to be more likely to prevail, like, they're going to lose pretty much every night. whereas this Leafs team has the firepower to keep up with that.

So I don't know. It is a curious question because I don't know. You can probably answer this better than I can, but like is it just a personnel thing where they're just doing it because they have these guys? Or like is it something Babcock is intentionally doing? Or like what I'm just curious whether it's something they're going to keep doing moving forward or whether they're going to try and adjust it and kind of tone it down a little bit to find a better balance. I think that I think what you're talking about,

the personnel is a big part of it for sure. stylistically it makes sense for what Babcock got but you know when his red wings teams were good they were high event team but I mean when they were really good they were extremely high event four and extremely low event against and you know they put up they put up some possession numbers and scoring chances and things that were basically the best of the last 10 years so I think that long term that's probably long term that's probably probably Babcock's goal, but they're going to air on the side of wanting that goal production and wanting to let guys like Marner loose when they can. Yeah, I mean, with those guys, like we keep having this discussion, well, not you and I, but I mean, like, the talking heads on TV and stuff, keep having this discussion about Willie Nielander and, you know, if he's too risky and if Mike Babcock needs to, like, rain him in a bit, and then we see last night, like, just what he's, what he's capable of.

and the insane skill he possesses and you just kind of have to take the good with the bad with guys like that where it's like the reason they're able to do it like they do all this great stuff occasionally it's not going to pan out and it's going to lead to an ugly turnover or a risky mistake or something like that but in

the grand scheme of things like what they do positively heavily outweighs the negative yeah I mean Nealander's kind of his biggest problem is that there's two rookies that are better than him and it's just it's kind of like a freak team in a freak year where it's never happened before

and he just happens to be in this situation. I mean, if he would be all anyone was talking about if Marner and Matthews weren't on this team. So, you know, that's the crazy thing with this Leaf season where, you know, I do believe that Matthews is the best rookie and he's had the most impactful

season of the bunch, just in terms of everything he's doing with the shot rates and just the guys he's playing with. But it's like, there's been legitimate stretches this year where, you know, Mitch Martiner just has an insane game or something like that. I'm like, wait a second, is Mitch Marner their best rookie? And then all of a sudden, like, Neil Anner does something himself. And it's like, wait, what if he's the best rookie? And it's like, just keep going, having this back and forth.

And it's basically like a big game of one-upsmanship where it's like, it's your turn, my turn. It's kind of been just, I mean, it's been fun to watch for us, of course. Yeah. You know, it's, there's always this talk about comparing Matthews and line A. I mean, I'd love to see it in-depth the comparison of line A and Marner and see how that shakes out. I mean, I know that Marner's not as much of a goal score, but at least they're both wingers and I don't know. I mean, that's the, you said you didn't want to get into the

Calder debate, but the caller debate is, the caller's always one of the really hard ones to vote for. You get goalies in there and you get defensemen, and it's like, I don't know how to measure a 19-year-old defenseman against a, you know, man Murray or, you know, when we vote, we have to pick the top five, so it's not like you just pick a winner and then you're done.

Well, another big thing with the Calder, especially is like are we picking it sort of descriptively based on just what happened this season or are you like looking at sort of the big picture and being like well what's like more predictive of like what their career is going to be like you get into that kind of tricky tricky balance where you don't want to like wind up five years from now looking back and being like can you believe like that guy like can you believe barred jackman was the rookie of the year like what happened there it's like it's like it just seems silly in the history books right yeah well Well, I'm sure people will say that when they looked at last year, and McDavid didn't win. Yes. Although at least Panarin's kind of proven this year that he was the real deal. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, Panarin's a good player. Yeah. We talked a bit about Babcock and the system and sort of the personnel, and I don't want to spend too much time on this, but I feel like we do need to at least address a little bit. Just, like, what's going on with this entire Ben Smith thing? Because I follow a lot of people that are, you know,

either Leaves fans. or Leafs analysts or writing about the team. And it's just like I feel like I haven't heard a player so inconsequential and so bad at hockey covered as much as I have Ben Smith the past few weeks. Yeah. I mean, in fairness to him, he wasn't that bad and that inconsequential until he had the injury. He broke his hand.

I want to say it was in December. Missed a long stretch of games, missed like whatever it was six weeks. He had pretty major surgery. pins in his hands and all kinds of stuff. I missed a lot of time with a broken hand. And since he's come back, he's really struggled. Really, I mean, one of the things he was bringing that Babcock liked is he was winning a lot of draws.

And you and I both know that face officers are overvalued, and Babcock definitely seems to overvalue them in relation to what they're actually giving you. But at least Ben Smith was playing his eight or nine minutes a game. and winning the draw on the PK and then Roman Pollack could shoot the puck all the way down the ice. But since he broke his hand and came back, I think he's at 30% on draws on the penalty kill or something. Like, it's just in the tough situations,

he just hasn't been able to win face-ups anymore. So like the one little micro-stat that he was giving them of positivity disappeared and all of his numbers, his shot rates, everything. I mean, he does not, he's not a guy that brings a lot of offense. the fourth line's been a problem for the Leaps all year. But, you know, the thing is Ben Smith has slipped from maybe close to replacement value player to much less since he's come back from that injury. Yeah.

Yeah, they need to figure out that position and the third pair and D. But, I mean, like the big story last week that you and our pal, Chris Johnson, were all over, was that they created, what, roughly like $15 million worth of an extra cap space by putting Horton Lupel and Robidah on LTIR? right yeah those those three combined make i think 13 and a half is what it is and it's so funny we didn't know but apparently they put them on lTIR in like october and and no one no one knew um you know it's it chris and i i think it was just coincidence that we were poking around on that around the same time frame and i had confirmed it and i just hadn't written anything yet and

And I saw the, this is always the nightmare when you're a reporter, is that, like, you have some information. You think you're going to have it first. It's not really time sensitive, so it wasn't in a huge rush to write something or whatever. And then all of a sudden I see on Twitter that Chris is running about it, and it's blowing up. And it's like, oh, man, I better get this out there and put something together. So it's really interesting.

And Chris seems to think they're going to use it, or at least that they have kind of a conviction to use it. I think it's an interesting thought experiment to debate whether they should use it or not. I mean, it looks like they're going to have a bonus overage with how many bonuses the rookies are going to hit. Really depends if Matthews finishes in the top 10 in goals or not. If he finishes in the top 10 in the NHL in goals, he hits a $2 million bonus on top of the $850,000 that he's already hit. You combine that with the bonuses that Sites have and Nylander and Marner are going to get, you know, though they don't have none of those.

guys have the huge bonuses, but they've got the $850,000. If you add all those together, and if Matthews hits that $2 million one, you know, they're looking at $5 million in performance bonuses for a team that is, aside from the LTIR money, is pretty close to the cap, a million dollars, a million and a half under the cap. So that would mean that they would have a bonus overage next year, $4 million. And to me, what I would try and do is trade a Roman Polack or, uh, move some stuff off the roster.

Maybe don't carry 23 players on the roster. Try and get further under the cap, as opposed to use the LTIR. The further you get under the cap, the less of a bonus overage you're going to have in the next season. And I just think next season in the year after are so important that if you can buy yourself an extra $2 million in cap space by trading some guys

and not using the LTIR, that that makes sense. But, you know, they've got cap gurus and at least front office. So they think it's wise to go for it. I think it really depends on what they use that money for. If they're getting a really good asset by using that $15 million, then maybe it makes sense. Yeah, I mean, those are the questions I can have to answer here, where it's like, do they slow play this and just view this season as already a success just based on how competitive and exciting they've already been thus far and just everything else beyond here is gravy? Or do they kind of expedite the process because they are, you know, they really should be trying to win as much as they can here while Matthews, Martin, and Neelander are on ELCs. and I don't know, it's like they don't have too many holes on this team.

Like what we're talking about are like, you know, Ben Smith is the problem and Roman Polack and Matt Hunwick. And it's like those things are very replaceable with with well-time moves. So it's not necessarily like massive holes. I think they need a number one D though. I mean, like they've got the one. Like I don't think they can contend with the blue one they've got. Yes.

Well, that's the question they have. You know, it's like I'm a fan of Jake Gardner and Morgan Riley certainly, but they do need to explore looking for that top flight legit number one defenseman because just because obviously that player himself would be amazing but it's like it helped help push everyone down into a more favorable position for what their respective abilities actually allowed him to do. Well, I think if Morgan Riley's got a fantastic shot suppression D partner that changes what his numbers look like. You know what? Like Zytev's had a good year and we didn't know how he was going to be but I don't think he's a top pairing guy. And they've just had to play.

all these guys higher than them. And like Connor Carrick's probably better suited to a third pair, especially right now with as young as he is. And they've just had to play these guys in a lot more minutes and a lot higher in the lineup that I think they're ready for. Well, that's what I always thought the Dushan Landiscaug rumors last week where, you know,

Kyle Dubas was at the Aft Sabres game and everyone was running wild with those potential storylines and stuff like that. But it's like, I think they have bigger fish to fry here. Like they're looking clearly for defense help. and the type of guy we're talking about right now isn't like someone that becomes available very often. Like I feel like Kevin Shattonkirk is the guy

that's going to get a lot of attention here, but do you think that he's like a realistic target for them and someone who would instantly just shore up everything we were talking about? Well, I mean, I'm interested in Kevin Shantkirk if you can get him on like a two-year deal when the cap space is obviously there to bring someone in. I think that the best thing about Kevin Shattonkirk aside from, I mean, he's a solid player.

The best thing is you don't have to give up any assets to get them. You just have to give up cap space. So, like, if they're trying to get the defensemen that we're talking about that they'd like to get, you have to give up a lot. You know, we saw with the Larson trade. I was going to call it the Larson McDavid trade, but it wasn't quite that bad. It was Larson for Hall. We saw it.

It's hard to get defensemen. It's hard to get top four defensemen, let alone top two. So, you know, if there happens to be a legit number one or top pairing defensemen available, you know, the other team's going to be asking for a boat load and the Leaves are going to have to subtract from their roster. So, you know, if there's any way they could get Chatton Kirk on a two or a three-year deal or maybe a heavily low, front load a four-year deal or, you know, then maybe it makes a little bit of sense, but that's probably the only way. And with the other offers he's probably going to get, I'm not sure that it makes sense. Yeah, I was going to say that seems ambitious to think that Chatton-Cirk would take a deal like that. Yeah, I mean, I think you just, you go higher on the AAV and see if he wants to join this team and try and help push it.

You know, I mean, I think you get in those conversations around free agency and you see what's workable. Yeah, not for sure. Well, I think it's a good transition to an article you wrote recently about the trade deadline and sort of how the specter of the expansion draft could potentially kill any movement. I mean, to an even larger degree that we've seen in the recent past, like last season. But I don't know, it's like it bums me a little bit because you look at sort of all the potential little wrinkles here and how teams could get creative in terms of, you know, there's certain teams that don't have enough guys to keep right now. And there's other teams that have too many. And it feels like there'd be a lot of like natural fits there where you can make stuff work and really get a bit crazy. But it's the NHL we're talking about.

And especially in season, I feel like we're just like setting ourselves up or disappointing. point in a minute if we think that anything crazy is going to happen. Well, the way that a lot of teams are talking about it is that the crazy you're talking about is going to happen in like June. You know, with the expansion draft a week before

the actual entry draft, like normally the entry draft, we see some fireworks and some stuff happens and that's leading up into free agency. Now there's going to be three humps because there's going to be, you know, Cup final is going to end two days later or whatever, however late it goes, expansion draft's going to be

there's going to be this huge bottleneck of teams trying to get things done right before the expansion draft to make sure they're not exposing a good player. And if they're in a situation where they do have to expose a good player, they're going to try and trade them or they're going to try and protect them somehow, or they're going to give an asset to Vegas and say, don't take this guy. I think that that period of the season is going to be fascinating from, you know, I'm planning on not having any days off between June 17th and July 2nd because I think that that's, two-week stretch, it might be one of the busiest that we've seen, even though there's not a lot of sexy unrestricted free agents that are going to be there in free agency. In fact, I mean,

I think that because there's not a lot in unrestricted free agency, teams realize they're going to have to make their moves around the expansion draft and around the actual entry draft. So, you know, I think what we might be seeing in terms of the trade deadline being a dud, and I think it is going to be a dud is because teams are kind of punting a lot of those hard decisions and those big moves to June. Yeah, which is why I thought it was fitting that, you know, the team you kept using as an example in that article were the ducks. And last week I did a Reddit AMA and I was asked sort of what my, what I'd like to see

or what, you know, what trade would make a lot of sense. And the ducks were the team I kept coming back to as sort of being like the powder keg there or like the team that could really start off a domino. effect because it's pretty clear that they're going to have to do something. And it's tough because they're, you know, they fancy themselves contenders right now and whether they are or not. Like, at least they're a playoff team. And under Randy Carlisle, they're going to try to do everything they can to win this year. And it's, it's like, if I was an opposing team, I'd be calling them every day trying to steal a guy like Josh Manson because I think that he can still be had for,

for way less than some of the other guys they have. But like, if I were the ducks, I'd be using this as an opportunity to think big and cash in and try and sell high on a guy like Cam Fowler. But, like, you know, that's not going to happen. These teams are way too conservative to ever try to do something like that. But it's like, this is, this would be the perfect time to capitalize on the fact that there's this like holding pattern where no one's really doing anything. And I feel like you could get so much for Cam Fowler compared to what you could have in the past for him.

Yeah. The reason I used Anaheim is because they have, I think, the biggest chance of doing something really interesting at the deadline. I mean, it sounds like they're, I'm going to be in Anaheim next week because the Leifes are out there and, you know, I mean, it's going to be, I think it's a day after the trade deadline,

two days after the trade deadline that the Leaves play there. You know, as you say, I mean, with the roster they have and with Carlisle there, I mean, they're in GoFord mode. They know that Getslaff and Perry and Kessler and the rest of their roster is not getting younger. They do have some good young talent there, but they really feel like that's an opportunity

with how weak their division is, how weak their conference is. The Central's not the powerhouse conference that it has been in the past. They feel like it's kind of, I could just see that Bob Murray makes some kind of a big splash move, brings in two key pieces because they're one of the teams that's not thinking about the future nearly as much. And they've got a lot of really good young players. I mean, they feel like in San Diego that they've got really good defensemen as well. So if they trade a stud defenseman, they feel like that they've got Montour and Theodore and, you know, and they feel like they've got pieces that are there that they can work with.

Yeah, and I feel like people haven't been talking about this much. But I mean, like, if you look at their forward depth chart, like it's, it's bad. Like, they're relying on Kessler and Getslaff like crazy here and they have to. But it's like, that doesn't seem like the best strategy in terms of like just like, just a, the miles those guys have on their bodies and the injury history. Like they should be really looking to add like a third complimentary guy there. It's like, I mean, their fourth line right now is Logan Shaw, Nate Thompson, and Corey Tropp. They have like Joseph Kramerosa playing up in the lineup.

It's like all these guys where you're just like, what? Like the ducks a few years ago were one of the deepest teams in this regard. And I think they had a low-key really bad summer in terms of not really thinking ahead and replacing some of those guys. And now with if you'd cashed in a guy like Camphaler, really, as you mentioned, you could get like possibly two pieces there that could really bump up the baseline for them. Yeah, I mean, they look kind of like a Carlisle team to me with some of the things that are happening there. You know, the fourth line, not playing hardly at all,

it's got an enforcer on it, or two enforcers on it, or, you know, it's, you know, it's, BX is playing more than he should be, and there's, there's all these different things happening on that roster that we can either call them inefficiencies or whatever. I mean, the last I looked, their record was on pace to be pretty close to what it was last year. I think that they've been struggling of late, but their possessions come down quite a bit. I mean, they might think of themselves as contenders, but I mean, they'd be pretty, they'd be a ways down my list in terms of teams I would pick to win the cup this year. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But I mean, as you said, like the, the path in front of them is weaker than I feel like it's been in the past few years.

So it's like in a weird way, there really is a chance for them to strike here. Yeah, it'll be exciting to see what happens. I do think that the trade deadline is probably going to be pretty quiet. And then as you mentioned, June is going to be off the hook. Before I let you go, I do want to talk quickly about this sit-down one-on-one you had with Lou. How'd that go? Well, if you read it, I mean, you can give me some feedback. I mean, the thing is, when you talk to Lou, it's, I wasn't expecting to get a whole lot of new information.

I mean, it's kind of his style. if you want to call it, that's what he's going for. I think in those interviews is to give you as little information as possible. But I'll credit him with this. When you ask to talk to him, at least in my case, he says yes. So, you know, he is available. And, you know, that's part of why I wanted to do it. I mean, I think it's good to have some kind of a relationship with the executives of the team you cover.

And I think that, you know, we learned a little bit, you know, about, the thought process. They continue to make it clear every single time you talk to Shanahan or Lamarillo or Babcock that they're going to do what they can to do this right and to be patient and to build around young players

and they continue to say all the right things. That seemed to be the takeaway from a lot of lease fans that read our conversation was that nothing has changed even though a lot has changed on the ice and the team has been a lot better than even they expected it was going to be. Yeah, I mean, the part that my favorite part was when you were asking about George McPhee and Vegas

and that was just that uncomfortable silence, that just had me in stitches because I could just imagine you guys just sitting there and just, him just staring you down and you just being like, okay, next question. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there were a couple of times. So going into that, I had, I don't, I typically don't do this, actually. I like to go in without notes and whatever and I've done big, long one-in-ones without any notes. I had a whole bunch of questions in front of me because I knew that there would be these gaps. There were other things I asked about and it's like, yeah, I don't talk about that.

And it's like, okay, well, I'll skip a couple questions or I'll regroup or whatever. But I just wanted to make sure I had a lot of material in front of me. So I was well prepared because I knew there was just stuff he wasn't going to answer. Yeah. Well, I've heard some great, some great lose stories, most of which I unfortunately can share publicly. But, yeah, I have a good authority that he might very well. be hockey's equivalent of the most interesting man in the world. So I was glad to see you had a nice lobe and back and forth with him.

Yeah, I wanted to ask him, like, I got to have to sit down with him another time and do, like, a feature on him if he'll be up for it. But, like, he's from Rhode Island. He's from, like, a small town in Rhode Island. I think it's called Johnstown or Johnston. I don't know. I think people think of him as, like, being, like, a New York or a New Jersey, kind of, like, you know, Italian American, but it'd be interesting. You know, it came up through Rhode Island, was at Providence,

and he really wasn't an NHLGM until he was closing in on, he was almost 50, you know, and then we kind of all know the story from there. But I think that the story before that's really interesting. You know, anytime you talk to Lou about analytics or statistics or whatever, he always reminds you that he was a math teacher and that, you know, he's comfortable with kind of the concepts involved. But I, you know, I still get the sense he's a little bit of a scale. skeptic with a lot of the stuff that you and I talk about and use in our writing.

Right. Yeah. Well, you're going to have that with a guy that's been around the game that long. But, I mean, to his credit, like he seems to at least be open to the idea of some of the stuff, which is more than I can say for a lot of other people. Yeah, well, there are other people that, yeah, they won't even consider,

or that are, like, openly anti. Yeah. Yeah. Well, listen, James, thanks for, thanks for the time, man. going to be a fun race for all of us and for you to follow down the stretch. I mean, I was looking today, there's five Atlantic teams and then the islanders who are all within six points of each other and there's only four playoff spots for those six teams. So it's going to be tight down the stretch. Yeah. You know, I kind of, people keep asking me, are at least going to make it? What's going to happen?

One of the people asking me is my wife. You know, are you going to be gone for the playoffs? I don't know. I mean, the least have whatever they have a 55% chance of making the playoffs. Maybe it's up to 60 after beating the jets last night. But I think it's going to come down to the last week of the season. You know, and I think it's going to come down to in the Atlantic. It's going to come down to which teams go, which teams go like 15, 7 and 5 or whatever, which teams really put the hammer down and do well. And if you're just okay, if you just play it like a 93 point pace or whatever the rest

of the way, you're probably not going to make it in. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be tough. Well, I recommend everyone checks out your coverage of that race at the athletic. Do you want to give some plugs here? I know you guys have been churning out a great content and an alarmingly high rate that's kind of putting all of the rest of us to shame. But it's been a lot of fun to follow. It's kind of like a new idea for a sports section. It's like taking the sports section out of a newspaper is what we're trying to do.

And it kind of just stands on its own. What I would actually do is encourage people to download the app that we have. I know that sounds crazy because people don't typically do that to read articles. but the head of our company came from an app firm. He is a designer of apps, and ours is getting new features and kind of being updated and reprogrammed every two weeks. Sometimes I go on the app in the morning.

It's like, oh, that's really cool what they did there. So just search for the athletic in either the Apple or the Android store and check it out. And, you know, it's been a lot of fun trying to start a sports media company from scratch, and I think we've been able to pick out some unique voices and get Tyler Delo writing again and, you know, shine the spotlight on some people. So if you like baseball or you like hockey or you're interested in the Raptors,

we've got those markets covered right now. Yeah, I co-sign that and wholeheartedly support you guys. And let's get you back on here in the show maybe towards the stretch on. If the Atlantic stays as tight as it says, we're going to need a Leafs update for me. Sure. Sounds good. All right. Talk soon, buddy. The Hockey PEO cast with Dmitri Filipov.

Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.