The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 153: Too Many Cooks in The Kitchen

Episode Date: March 21, 2017

Mike Halford joins the show to help conduct an autopsy on the Vancouver Canucks, mull over the future for the Sedins, and reflect on how much the industry has changed since his initial foray into it. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered: 1:15 Jim Benning's redemption 9:05 Meddling Ownership 14:25 Stomaching a rebuild 23:30 The legacy of the Sedins 35:15 Doubling down on Erik Gudbranson 43:00 Loui Eriksson's season from hell 47:30 Getting into the industry Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and sitting across for me is my good buddy, Mike Hawford. Mike, what's going on me? Dimitri, thank you very much for having me on the PD Ocas. Very excited to be here. Yes, now that we have the proper alignment in my living room, we recorded a first intro where we were sitting too close to each other, I think, and my producer always freaks out about picking each other out.

It was still a really good intro, though. I think we knocked it out of the park. It was better than this one, but we'll make due. So I'm having you over to help me do a deep dive on the Vancouver Canucks. honestly at this point it feels more like an autopsy sort of it is legitimately an autopsy and it's been a two-year autopsies been going on for quite a while yeah so i've done a lot of these with various guests for different teams over the season and we've kind of been focusing on what's going on this year but i think at this point it's fair for us to just maybe think like bigger picture or where this team's going moving

forward rather than what's going to happen in the final nine or ten years yeah as exciting as the stretch drive is going to be i know we should probably do like a sort of overarching look This franchise is, yeah. So I guess this is a good place to start. Where were you when you found out that Jim Benning was one of the big winners of this nearest trade deadline? Do you remember where you were? Yeah, I was at home and I got wind through various channels that the Brough's deal was close. I was working on Pro Hockey Talk.

Fantastic website. Yes. We'll get more exactly. Don't worry. I haven't forgotten. And I remember thinking. Oh, this might actually be coming to fruition like this. Jason, who I work with the pro hockey talking out on the radio show, we had said, like, it would be amazing if Benning actually had the guile and the sort of like subterfuge to say all year that he was going to hold on to these guys with no trade clauses and keep these culture carriers around.

And then flip the script ahead of the deadline too. So I got way into the Burroughs trade. And I'd heard he wasn't returning tax. So it was a pretty good indication that he was gone. I'm like, okay, great. So, you know, phase one is complete. And then when the Hansen trade came down, it was, again, I had logged off pro hockey talk for the night. We're doing pretty long hours during the deadline.

Yeah. But it was the same thing. I got another text match. It was about five minutes before Hansen got pulled from the line of Lory. Hanson's got pulled. We don't know what's going on, yada, yada, yada. So at this point, I'm thinking, unless Benning bottles the Hanson trade, he's going to walk out of here as the deadline winner. And I wasn't ready to live in a world where Jim,

and it was about to win something which was awarded to good GMs. I just, I wasn't prepared for us. It took about a full day for it to like sink in and comprehend that he had actually orchestrated this and quite masterfully too. The big thing that we said was, you know, trade hansom, trade bros, but also get out in front of the deadline. Like don't be Ken Holland with a slightly used Thomas Vanick two hours before the deadline. Get out in front of it.

So it was really impressive and I'm still kind of stunned that it happened. Well, especially after just the entire debacle that we're, was last year, right? Like, I was, I was just waiting for them to make up all these excuses after the fact of, like, you know, we couldn't get enough. We still think that since a part of this core. Like, you know, Burroughs, we're just going to play it out and see if maybe he comes back. Like, it's like, everybody actually did good stuff.

I was blown away, honestly, because we've talked a lot about GMs that have a plan and then orchestrate it. And that, like, is a big part of, I think it's not necessarily if the plan works out. It's that if you have one and you kind of. set the wheels of motion and executed. That's something because it shows that you have a vision. Now, the vision might be shitty, but, you know, like Jim Nill with the goaltending situation in doubt. But Jim Nill, I remember when he pulled it off, it was like, this is what we want to do, this is who we want to target.

It was, and then when the chairs moved on it, when it was supposed to be Camtale, but he couldn't. And then it had to be Niemie. Things happen, right? They moved. So for this, with the Knox, I was like, this is very much like how Steve Iserman plays chess when other guys are playing checkers, right? It's like he knows how to manipulate things. to get what he wants to get done. And I mean, I think, you know, I don't know how much negotiations Benning had to do with the

Burroughs trade, but I imagine it was a bit of a sticky situation because there was a lot of moving parts to it. It wasn't just getting him to wave to go to a different city. It was getting an extension in place, getting the right asset in return. And I don't know how big of a market there was for Burroughs. I genuinely don't, right? So to pull off what he pulled off, I, you know, it is markedly impressive. I think I've already mentioned that.

But I still, to this day, I'm still like, this is a good thing. Well, that's the interesting thing about where we're at with Jim Benning right now, because like the big point of contention for myself and many others out there has been, you know, he was billed as this sort of master scout or talent devaluer, especially like for young players coming up the ranks as opposed to maybe pro guys. But he never really, he was sort of like handcuffing himself this entire time because he was just like, they were constantly drafting fewer players than even they're still like they're trading away more picks and they were acquiring, which always, there was like a weird

imbalance between that. Oh, it's like, it's like a star poker player going to the table with like as few chips as possible. It's like, bring more to the table. And Jason and I would talk about it for weeks on end on the show. It's like, I don't understand, even if, unless you're like completely disconnected or detached with what you are as a talent evaluator, how you would not think like my strengths are scouting, I could utilize those strengths at the draft. I would need picks at the draft to pull on it. It just, it didn't make any sense. I do think that, you know, um, um, um, there was a mandate in Vancouver that went beyond unearthing talent in the third, fourth, fifth, and six rounds. And it was very much trying to appease an ownership group that is, you know, on a good day, meddlesome and on a bad day, right in your grill and screwing things up.

Yeah. I do think that the Linden influence has skewed what the organization wants to do with the Siddins because I think the, the, the Linden paradigm with all this is like you respect the veteran guy and the guys that mean a lot to the city and it goes beyond the ice. And that's great. Those are all like nice syrupy narratives and everything. But, you know, you're looking at a business and an industry now where it's like you need to make cold-hearted, calculated decisions, especially in a salary cap baron that doesn't really jive with what they're doing. I think finally, and maybe this was, if Benning was deft enough to slow play it, is that he slow played to this point where it's like, look, this thing is past the point of no return. You can see it's, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's like, there's, there's, like tangible results on the ice that we suck. So we need to start moving this in a different direction. While, you know, with the limited sort of draft picks and everything, I did manage to bring in some halfway decent assets. So if anything, the best case scenario you can say is all this sort of like tripping over

himself and the slope laying, probably knocked him back a year and a half, two years on where their rebuild should have been. I think if Benning had carte blanche coming in right away, he probably would have gutted it, he probably would have stockpile draft picks and he probably would have tried to get more young guys in the door. Yeah. But there was that I think he also believed that there was a softness in the market where there was guys aged like 22 to 25 that were available.

Yeah. That he could go and get me and everyone knows who they are now. Some of them have worked out. Barchie's an okay pickup. Granlin's been good. But you don't build that way. Like you just don't. Right.

Well, I mean, you can if you already have like the foundational pieces in place and you're kind of supplementing them. Right. That's what you're going to find at that point. No one's giving away a foundational 22 to 25. They just don't come available. You're going to get some nice, you know, secondary assets or maybe a guy like Granland who might end up being more than even you thought he was going to be.

But, you know, I also think that that, you know, again, I'm probably giving Jim betting way too much credit here for being sly and sleuth and everything. But I do believe part of it was like, in order to get everyone on board, you know, you kind of hit rock bottom before you can start getting back up. And that's where they were this year. I mean, you know, briefly flirting with the playoffs was everyone knew that it was a mirage. It was going to go away. Yeah.

I guess the counter you can make is like the tricky situation with that is like if things really bottom out, you could be the one that pays the price for that. And then all of a sudden you're not there to actually do what you wanted to do in the first place. You know, we talk about that a lot on the show. It's like these guys GM for their jobs a lot of the time. Like there's not a ton of security. Or if you're like, I have a five year plan. The first question I'd say is like, how are you going to be around in the fifth year of this thing?

You know, because if it's four years of losing, you know, the goalposts change. And you use that expression a lot, but it does. right? You know, owners get tired of things or, you know, certain things happen. Prospects don't pan out like you think they're going to. You know,

other teams in your division make big moves. It's stuff like that that can really change around. So, you know, if your owner tells you, it's, I want to make the playoffs this year, as a GM, you're nine times out of 10, unless you've got some massive brass balls. You're going to say, no, okay, I'm going to do what I can to get you into the playoffs.

Yep. So we need to talk about this just because, like, we wouldn't be doing our due diligence on a Canucks deep dive if we didn't address it. But I also like, I mean, I want to put the disclaimer out there that neither you or I probably like no like too much behind the scene stuff. It's kind of purely speculation on our part. But do you always hear about, I mean, you mentioned it earlier, like the ownership meddling and you have all these different voices with Benning and Lyndon and then the owners? And it's like, do you think that it really is just too many cooks in the kitchen where it's like all

these people pulling in different directions? Because you always hear like an organization like the San Antonio Spurs, like the gold standard in pro sports. It's like, everyone is like has the same plan and you execute it. And obviously you can chat, like you can have good debates and back and forth. But ultimately you're like, you have a unified front and it's been very spot. It's a good question. I always bring up Tampa Bay when it brings it. Because when we were down there for the cup final in 50 and I remember like spending a little bit of time in and around the circles of Jeff Vinick.

And he is the ideal owner because he's got a ton of money. And he's, he's embraced the community. community and the team, but he knows that he's not a hockey guy. And he will freely admit it. And he's like, I hired a really good hockey guy. Right. That's why I hired Steve is because Steve makes really good decisions, right? And that's an ideal, but it's also not the reality because a guy like Vinick has probably

got the foresight to realize, like, the stuff that makes me successful in all these other ventures doesn't necessarily translate over. I don't think a lot of these guys, when they get to the heights that they do financially and with their success are able to see that. They're just assuming that whatever made them successful in the business field is going to make them successful here. And it just doesn't work. You need to hire a guy and let him make the decisions.

And then at a certain point, you do need to be the guy that sits back and writes the checks. And that's probably tough. And in the case of the aquilines, I guarantee it's difficult because they grew up here and they're entrenched in the community. And there's a certain, look, when these guys get to the money that they're making and the status that they have, they're big time. ego involved. There's no way that there can't be. And for guys that just want to bring a cup to Vancouver, I think that can get skewed a lot because they're probably thinking somewhere along

the lines, we've made it really successful in a lot of different ventures. Why don't we apply some of those practices here? But the reality of it is, is there probably are too many cooks. And they still haven't really figured out how the delegation of media should work. Like Lyndon talks to the media a lot and Benning talks a lot. And inevitably, unless you stick to your talking points to a someone's going to go off script. Yep. And as soon as one of them goes off script, 1040's all over it,

the province is all over it, and then all of a sudden it's like, we've got mixed messages from these guys, and they still haven't figured that out. Yeah, it's so funny. I mean, it seems like such a long time ago now, but like just comparing this current situation to the Gilman-Gillis dynamic.

And I remember even at the time, there was fans here locally that were, you know, critical of them because of maybe the way they interact with the media sometimes or just, you know, how transparent they were or whatever. but it's like you look back in it now it kind of just makes you wish for yeah because it was mike show that was the thing like gilman like knew what he was where his strengths and weaknesses were but he also knew like who was calling the shots like that was what made gilman a good right-hand man right

there's no i mean you know i i understand why they brought linden in is like it's it was a good PR move and you know it'll even though he's like in a completely removed off-ice role there's still something there about bringing that connection back the other reason why the other reason they brought him in and it was pretty evident after like two years listening to Benning Tog is Benning's not suited to be doing the media thing a lot of the time. Yes. And there hasn't really even been an improvement. And some people think this stuff doesn't matter, but it does because you can't have your GM going out there. And like, when's the last time a GM got fine for tampering? Like when does this stuff happen, right?

Like he's just, and it's weird because you see other ex-NHL players and they transition really well to the GM thing because they know how to talk to the media. Bergeman's a good example. Eisenman's a good example. Linden is okay. He's much more charming and he's got a better persona to speak publicly. But still, I shake my head sometimes where it's like, you guys need to talk last, to get better talking points and to have one of you talk, not both of you. Yeah. You do always hear that from people that are quick to point out.

Like, there's a lot that goes into the job of being a GM, more so than just figuring out, like, which players you want in your team. And, yeah, I've long had this kind of pet theory about Jim Benning, where it's like he really doesn't do himself any favors because he could, in his head, be meaning really well and have this well thought out plan but if you can't vocalize it to your fan base to like talk them off the ledge you keep like like like like like like like like like you're just like you're talking like this like surfer bro yeah i know that's the thing it's this very strange delivery where it's like i'm pretty sure you're like in your mid 50s but you can't

have this like oh you know well and it's it's crazy to listen to yeah because you're like this is a guy in charge of you know tens of millions you know up to 50s 75 billion you know up to 50s $75 million worth of signing contracts and, you know, deciding a lot of guys' futures. And I'm sure he's much sharper when he doesn't have to be on for cameras or for microphones or anything. But at the same time, it does kind of give you pause. It's like, this is the guy running the show. Yes. Yeah.

So I think the next logical place for us to take this conversation is we constantly hear, especially over the past few years, some of the moves they made were because, you know, they're peddling this propaganda about how the fan base. here wasn't ready for a full-on rebuild. And it's, it's, it's tough because Vancouver does get the bad rap about being a fair weather city. And I think there's definitely something to that. I mean, as someone who lives here, like, there's so many different things to do that I understand that, you know, if you're living, like, in a cold weather city out east, maybe, and it's like, minus 30 degrees and it's just snowing for like five months. You're just in the house. Like, you're going to

watch your, you're going to watch your team. Like, that's all. Like, like, you're, like, you're, You're, okay, fine, I'll go for a walk and hang out of the beach or something. Well, yeah. And I've yet to find anyone that's really got their finger on the pulse of Vancouver. And we've been doing the media thing here for like over 10 years now. And it's, it's very disjointed. And it's because, again, you've got you've got downtown proper, which, as you've mentioned, there's a million different things to do in Vancouver.

And when you've got like Whistler like a shot away or if you're living downtown Vancouver, there's a million other things to do than hockey. Yeah. For sure. The further you stretch out and where you see it is like in the valley, and, you know, farther our regions where people are much more dialed in. Yep. But they're actually not like the ones that are like coming into downtown Vancouver to watch a games that are, but they're the most passionate and most informed often. People are the ones that are calling into like pre and post game shows,

the ones that are dying for information on the web, right? And it's, it's made for this weird dynamic where you've got a really vocal, really passionate, critical fan base of it seen. But you've also got a lot of people that are like, wake me when they're good again, right? And, and, and, It's almost like a 50-50 thing. And it's not to say that there's not a passionate fan base that lives and dies with the team because there is. Because it's one show town. Like, I think that's the biggest thing people don't realize is it is Kinnock's all the way. I mean, we've been doing radio for a long time.

Like you don't talk anything other than Kinex. That's it, right? I mean. Vancouver. Canadians single A's. Yeah, right. Like the white caps are like still kind of a novelty. Yeah.

And the lions are like something that runs in the summer. Well, there was like, there's a year. They were at Empire Field. then they moved into the renovated busy place, but pretty much since that's. And like they're totally disconnected with like a young demographic in their fan base. So really it's like it's all Canucks all the time. You don't talk about basketball. You don't talk about the Raptors.

You kind of talk about the Js, but then you get that Toronto, Vancouver thing. You kind of talk about the Mariners, but there's only a handful of people that really care. So it is all Canucks all the time. And that's kind of why you can have so many people tuned in and so many people dialed out. Because that's it. You've got one thing to follow, right? So, I mean, yeah, like, you know, it's inevitable that people are going to not be interested right now. Yeah.

You know, I understand that. But those people are going to come back regardless as soon as the team becomes good again. And you're still going to have a huge swath of people that are going to follow this thing regardless. Right. But I mean, just the reason why there was just like this imbalance for me was like, I get that, you know, there might not be an appetite for it. But it's like, but is there an appetite for whatever is going on right now with this team? Like, I find that hard to believe as well, right? Yeah.

And that's kind of what I was. getting at is it's like people the people that are going to tune out are going to tune out. Yes. Like they're going to tune out if it's a down year or if they're not re-interested or there's something else to do. The people that are tuned in are I think unanimously, unanimously would probably be if they were, you know, cognizant, sharp hockey minds would be like, yeah, this is the way it's got to go. Yeah. It's got a bottom out and you have to rebuild. Because one, you've seen the trends historically. And two, you just know that whatever it is you're putting out on the aisle here now isn't good enough. So, you know, but it is,

that dynamic still exists where it's like, oh, there's not an. appetite for it. It's like, well, yeah, some people don't want to watch a losing hockey team. Like, no shit, right? Like, that's pretty obvious that, you know, there's going to be people that like, why am I paying for this? Why am I investing any time into this? And that's more of a human nature thing. But again, I think people that are deeply vested in this team are saying, yeah, this needs to happen. And it probably should have happened a while ago. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's crazy because I, you know, I'm not, I'm not a fan of the team anymore. I have to be the unobjective but like if you told me five years ago like to be true you have a press pass and you go to every single

game and i would and then i would i would come back to you and be like you know what no i'm good i'm going to stay home and maybe flip your channels watching the game center live like i i only go to games if like i have a specific meeting or an interviewer if i'm going to be on like the broadcast or something like i'm not going there just to watch a game and it's that's crazy to me because like i love hockey so like the baseline level for me to be interested in the product is pretty like it's pretty low yeah but i mean there's just no like other than bow horbat who's been blow blew away my expectation in terms of just like dynamic offensive skill he's presented so far beyond that like there's just very little reason to tune in or go to the game

and i don't blame people for checking i don't either i and it's i don't really think it's that big of an issue it's like i've you've seen this throughout the nchl i mean you know do i remember when we first started doing the media thing was right when the black hawks got came in tapes. I remember distinctly talking to the guys that were on second city hockey. I think they're SB Nation. Anyway, they've been doing it for years. And they would say, like, you have no idea how bad these crowds were before these guys got here. There was 8,000 people and this is an original six team with a huge history and it was just dormant and dead.

And like, who remembers that now, right? Now, obviously, that's the extreme situation. Right. They've since become like a modern day dynasty. But this stuff is cyclical. But you know what? Living in it is you kind of have to address it. You can't be like,

oh, this is just a thing that'll pass. Like, you could say that about anything, right? So you do have to kind of be like, oh, people aren't in the stomach mode for a rebuild and, you know, apathies at an all time high.

And it's like, yeah, but this is also cyclical. Like, if you, if you go on a run where you're awful for 10 years, like the oilers were, then I would say maybe you've got some problems.

Because I'm not sure what that looks like in Vancouver now, right? Well, I mean, honestly, 10 years of that is worth one Connor McDavid. Right. And that's the thing, right? It's like Evan's finally got rewarded.

You just have to wait. So, yeah. I don't know. It's interesting whenever we talk about the city because it's like everyone seems to think they've got their finger on the pulse of the city. But the one thing I'm like, I never do. You know, because it's very dynamic and it's like things change in a hurry here. People's interest change in a hurry here.

But it's also, if there's one common thing that I've seen, it's like when people get into something, they're over the top. into it, right? I mean, that's two riots in an Olympics later, right? So that's kind of the one trend that I've seen. So I would imagine that as soon as the Canucks eventually get back on an Opswing, you'll just see all that stuff spike again. Yeah, and that's

what I always tell people, like, it's a shame that for many reasons that the riot captures all the attention and headlines, but like, I remember just a few weeks before that when they finally got over the hump and beat the Blackhawks in that first round in the game seven overtime. Like, the city was

just as euphoric as you could possibly imagine. It was like everyone was just giving out high fives and just so happy. And it's like that this, because the city is definitely capable of, of supporting a team and being that excited and that rabid about it. Like so it, I guess it is a bit of a fair weather city because people are checking out. But I think that, you know, it's like that pretty much anywhere, I feel like. Yeah, no, I would absolutely agree.

It's got, I mean, you could write like an entire book on. the Boston series and then what transpired afterwards. There's so many things played into one another. And there was a lot of extenuating circumstances involving security and police and everything that allowed that to happen. But at the end of the day, the one thing you can't argue is that like

when people get behind this thing, they get behind this thing. It's almost like their ability to stay away is equal to their ability to get the deep dive right into it. Recharging their batteries ready to go. Let's pay some bills in here from a sponsor and then we'll get back with this discussion. We have pretty loyal listeners who generally know what's up and how we do it here in the HockeyPedio cast.

So they already know all this. But for those of you that may have just randomly stumbled upon the show for the first time, in which case, where have you been all along? I mean, we've done over 150 episodes by now. Or those of you that don't have your hands free at the moment and can't skip ahead a couple times through this ad like you normally do, and I don't blame you for that. I do that myself when I listen to podcasts.

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because, you know, from an analytical, just coal-blooded, calculator perspective, it's like, yeah, you should probably try and trade the Cidians while you can and retain some value and, you know, hopefully use whatever those pieces are for the next wave of when this team's ready to compete. But at the same time, it's like just having lived here and having seen, you know, guys like Bure and Naslin and Linden just playing out the end of their careers on wearing foreign uniforms just looking super weird. Like, I completely guess. the argument where it's like just let these guys finish their careers here especially considering like how entrenched they are in the community with like all the charity work you do and everything

like that like so it's it's such a tough situation uh i think and i don't think it's the best solution but i think the best scenario is that they announced that this is their last year that they're going to retire and then you just let them play out the year because uh you i don't think you want to go down the road of trying to negotiate an extension on july one when they're eligible to do it. Because I don't think that that's in the, I don't think it's in the best interest for them or for the economics. I mean,

do they want to continue playing? If that's the case, that's maybe a conversation that they can have after they finish it. But what you do is if they say this as our last year, you know, et cetera, is you take the one big thing, which I think would be terrible for their final years.

If they went through their entire final year in Vancouver, with the looming specter of, are you going to waive your no trade clauses to get moved at the deadlock? life. Yes. Right? You don't, I mean, that would be Matt Sundeen in Toronto. I was going to see. Ironically, that would. Yeah, that's exactly what it would be. And it would be terrible for them to have to answer that. Because, I mean, it would be like a Ginglin in Colorado this year. Like, for the last four months of his time there, that's the only question that he got. No one wanted to ask him anything else. And, you know, Colorado, again, has a lot different situation than Vancouver Cedians. I, you know, now, having said this, I do think that it is going to be a very unpleasant. final year because there's going to and rightfully so is there's going to be critics that are going to be saying this is just taking two spots away from

two younger guys that could maybe utilize those minutes to further enhance their careers. Monetarily I don't think it's going to make a huge difference because they're going to stink next year anyway and I don't think Cap's going to be a huge problem. There's going to be the culture angle of it is that

that's the Sidene's room really until it's not. But maybe they've got the ability to pull back and pass the torch a little bit. But all that stuff kind of seems like secondary, almost tertiary to the big thing, which is like if you can kind of come up with some resolute answer before going into the season, it'll be a lot easier on everybody. Right.

And then you can do the Derek Jeter season long going away party, right? Like, no one's done it in the NHL yet, really. Well, I think, so here's the interesting thing going on here is like, I still think the Cidines are good, which is makes it different than, the Jeter situation or the Ginnling's It's it's they're not like listen They don't have their fastball anymore They definitely can't do it on a night in night out basis

Like they used to And you know maybe there was a time where you could put a Jason Megno with him and they just still make him look good And he'd just randomly become a 20 goal score And get paid because the Siddines were that good Yeah But they clearly can't do that anymore And like we saw it like just the grind of this season

But if you look at them on the right night they still got it especially like down low just working their passing in the cycle and I think that you know if they went to a team where they could be on like a second line where they there were stars ahead of them

and they could just kill it on the power play and just they'd be amazing pickups for a team if you could if there was a team out there that could somehow work the cap and stash guys on long term injury reserve and get the sedines in they would be ideal pickups at the deadline because you wouldn't

really need to assimilate them into the team because there's two of them and that's two-thirds of a line right there. Yeah. Like, you just need to put a Jason Meg out there with them. But no, seriously, like, I mean, from a logical standpoint, it does make sense. Yeah. But again, but then you get into it. It's like, do you want to see Mike Medano wearing a Red Wings uniform?

Do you want to see Matt Sundeen wearing a Canox uniform? And especially with the city, it's like, I'll go to the wall for the two of them. Like, I don't think, and this is one thing that I will hammer this city for is this city's never really fully embraced how truly unique and lucky and special this is. Like, aside from the fact that, you know, one won a heart trophy. I was nominated for one. Yeah. The statistical anomaly of having like two red-headed twin brothers from like a tiny town in Sweden.

Yeah. You know, get to the heights that they got to. And also being able to play together, which, like, remember going back to the draft, no one was really sure that anyone would be able to orchestrate it. Would they ever be able to play together? Like, everyone, a lot of people just assume that they'd go their own separate ways, right? So for them to carry over that magic into a city for as long as they have, like, they should be on par with some of the great athletes in the great cities that they're synonymous with it, right?

And it's obviously now winning a championship is going to play into that. And I think their personalities as well, right? Like, they had to kind of like assimilate to Vancouver. It wasn't the other way around. Like, you go to, every time I've been to Pittsburgh and Lemieux, it's like, Pittsburgh assimilated itself to Maryland. You like whatever Mario kind of wanted to do, Pittsburgh was all about it, right? It's the inverse here.

But that's understandable. You know, Lemieux is a generational player. I just feel like at the end of the day, you know, a lot of Incoverts are going to look back and be like, we should have appreciated them more. We should have acknowledged like how fantastic they were more like across the board. And then I'm not even getting into the off-ice stuff with like the incredibly good people. Like they had the privilege of being around them a couple times. like very good people but

I'm just talking about the pure on ice stuff like it's just you're not going to see it again ever and I'm confident saying that you will never see that stuff again ever and I think that it's not even like fans in Vancouver I think it's just NHL fans around the world

like I feel like you know they just haven't been appreciated nearly as much as as they deserve I mean like when when they were fully rolling in those couple years there like that was the last game with the season when when Daniel Neil Sidon won the scoring race and he scored that goal between his legs. Oh, the one against Calgary.

Yeah. Come on. Like, who, like, no one is doing that. When they were in their, when they were in their prime. Yeah. I remember when we went down to San Jose for the 2011 Western Conference final. And we went as fans. We just, we bought a bunch of tickets and we went.

We were doing the curtain blog at the time. But, and I remember everyone in San Jose being like, these guys are goddamn unstoppable. Like, and that was the more where they feasted on the power clip all time, right? Yeah. And it was just like, like, they're like, you cannot stop. them right and you know another thing too and a lot of people overlook this is like you you you spend your entire career dominating in Vancouver a lot of people don't see you like there's

just a lot of writers back east and I know this for a fact that aren't staying up until 10 o'clock to watch a puck drop right they're not staying up until 1 o'clock in the morning to watch it finish right and to do it to do that I mean just look at a lot of the MVP voting a lot of the time a lot of the voting for a lot of the awards like guys in the west just inherently I'm not breaking any news or anything But to do it in Vancouver, which isn't sort of one of the quote unquote marquee west coast markets, right? It's amazing. And that's probably plays into why they didn't get the accolades that they did. Well, I mean, that's why Drew Dowdy got a lifetime achievement.

That's right. You just give him one. You just give him one at the end of his career. And you say, okay, Drew Dowdy, here you go. Yes. Yeah, man, the Sardine's, it's the other thing I should point out, I was looking at this earlier, you know, for all the credit we gave Jim Benning for the trade that he had. and what he was able to get back for guys like Burroughs and Hansen,

it's going to be tougher to trade them now because having retained salary on Hansen, they can't retain salary on both the Cedines. So it's going to be very tough to... I can't imagine there's going to be too many contenders that will be able to fit both guys. Honestly, like, from a logical and sort of like, oh, this works perspective,

trading them is there, but it's just like, honestly, like, I just don't see it. Like, I think even the most cutthroat, ruthless front offices will have a soft spot at some points. Like we're not talking about Bill Belichick, like getting rid of Vince Wilfork like a day after winning the Super Bowl, right? Like I feel like this is, there's something more intrinsic here where they're like, oh, you know, we should give these guys the send off they deserve. And then, you know, to your point, I do think there's a way that you can knock their minutes down to maybe like 14 a night. Yeah.

And pick your spots a little bit more judiciously. and not rely on them as heavily as you are. And you can go through a year like that, right? And then they can still give you glimpses and they can probably provide some good moments. And then at the end of the year, everyone kind of takes a bow. And that's, it's like getting a C plus.

Like you didn't knock it out of the park, but it ended okay. And I really do think that's the best scenario right now. I do. They've tried, and God bless them, they've tried to make this thing work for the Cidians. But even as their staunchest defender, else you can't keep doing it.

Eventually it's got to move. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's tough because as the pressing as it would be, you mentioned like some of the guys, former grades, we've seen playing it out in different jerseys, it's also kind of equally depressing, seeing them just kind of play it out loyally here because it's like this team is just not going anywhere and they still have a bit to contribute. And like seeing them raise a Stanley Cup would be pretty cool even if it was in a different I would love that.

I mean, the trade scenario, the, the, other thing too is you know if you're talking about it like when would you actually orchestrate that kind of deal we almost have to be in the off season right you think about going into the season then being like here's 14 million in a combined cap hit that you need to take on like good luck trying to figure that out yeah but there is part of me that would like to see it there's there's no doubt about it because i do think that every now and again you get those moments where you know guys go somewhere else and they actually it's very rare that's the other thing i should bring up too like for every ray bork in colorado there's a lot of guys that have tried to try to

to latch themselves on at the end to make a cup run. It just doesn't work out, right? Pretty much every player that's ever played for the Red Wings. Pretty much. Yeah, there was a lot that hits your wagon to that thing. You know, and more recently, there's a couple guys that have tried to do with Chicago, right? And it's almost like the years that you come aboard of the years that it doesn't work. So Pittsburgh's the same thing.

I remember when Gimla went there, right? I mean, that was supposed to be a slam dunk. And it doesn't often work out. Again, but I mentioned this earlier, the wild card with Zines is you're literally buying a line, right? you just put a semi-confident winger out there with them and all of a sudden the entire dynamic of your team changes i think that would be incredibly enticing and might shift the scales a little bit but remains to be seen yeah yeah i'm sure we'll uh we'll be talking about this a lot in the in the weeks and months and i would imagine to come um so i want to talk a little bit about eric good branson

uh it seems like a very niche topic it's like someone or someone right someone right someone right Someone right now in Carolina was like, why would anyone ever say we need to talk? That was the worst segue ever. We need to talk with Eric Ransson. But because we were talking about Benning's trade deadline and the thing that I was most interested to see what he would do, never really got to play out because Good Branson got injured. So kind of just took him off the hook for now and bought him some time to figure it out. Sure did. So what?

I think he's like turning 26. He's an RFA now. He's due for a contract extension. And I think if Benning, you know, if we're giving him credit for really turning the corner here or actually knowing what he's doing, he'd look at it and say, you just sometimes got to accept that you made a bad move and kind of accept the sunk cost. And it's a bit of an ego killer, but it's probably better than doubling down and being like, well, we're going to give Gary Grantson five years and 25 million to find out. And that's the risk, right? And he's got a built-in excuse to do it because it's like, well, we do really good. to see all of Eric Goodbranson this year.

And, you know, we really think that he hasn't scratched the ceiling of his potential yet in Vancouver. And all those things are out there. That is a dangerous contract. That's the most dangerous one that they have this summer in terms of negotiations. They need to, if they're going to keep him around, and they need to give him like a three-year term on like third-paring money. So three years, six million. And if you're Eric Grants, you're like, why would I take this? There's no point, right?

But that's what they need to do. Because the other thing, too, is like, you can't have him blocking someone else on your blue line, right? Yes. You can't carve out a niche for him and then have it come at the expense of someone that needs the minutes or needs more ice time or does basically whatever he does. And I mean, look, I do think there's a lingering concern that Benning might not be done with the, you know, let's keep trying to build.

Like the event. The Evander Cain thing just key, it's hung in the air for too long, like too much longer than I would have liked it. Like it just, you know, and Kane is putting up, he's actually done the two years out from unrestricted for. Yes. He's realized like, I got to do this two years out instead. And so, I mean, there's something there that I think, I think that they feel like they've got enough pieces on defense that they could move one. And then they still consider Good Branson being a quote unquote core guy. And I think it's a huge mistake.

I think you're 100% right where it's like you just need to bite the bullet on this one and be like, we gave up too much. We thought we were one team and now we're a different team. And Granson represents everything that would be wrong because if you're going to keep him, it's almost guaranteed you're going to pay him too much money or you're going to give him too much term. Like unless his agent does a really lousy job on it. And if you're the Cadac's, you just can't afford to sink a ton into this guy. Like you can't. And again, it's partly. a rip on his play, but it's also partly like, you know, the teams, it's changed dramatically

in the last year. Things have changed dramatically. It was just a miscalculation. It was, yeah. I think that they saw a bright, shiny toy in the window, and they wanted to get in on it before they thought anyone else was going to get in on Gibranston, and they jumped first, and then realized afterwards that there weren't a lot of other suitors lined up to take it. And the toy was used and had been returned a few times. Yeah. And was maybe going to get you, like, 10. to 12 points a year. Yes. Yeah.

And it's, you know, again, and I understand for like this particular going into this season where they're like, I mean, if you're knocking on the door of the playoffs, you're probably a decent guy to have around because he's big and he can knock guys around. You can play him in the playoffs and he has all that warrior nonsense that I love talking about. But for where they're out right now, like it just doesn't make any sense. He seems like one of those players that you could definitely like sell to another team, right? because it's like he's still not old, even though we know that just based on aging curves,

he's probably not going to get much better from what he is at right now. I think he's still cashing checks on being the third overall pick. Yeah, for sure. And guys like that, I mean, obviously, like, you know, it's different because Goodbrances actually show that he can, like, stay in the league.

But, like, how many chances did Cam Barker get just because he was once a former? You got one of them than Cooper's in here. Yeah, it's like guys like that are all the time. Like, people are so hesitant to just admit that people just messed up or things have changed and you need to recalibrate your expectations and people keep trying to uncover these hidden gems. And, you know, for the right price, it's, you know, worthwhile gamble maybe.

But at the price he's going to cost it. It's tough. And I think it definitely is an indictment on his abilities as a player that, like, he was sold as being this guy that, you know, fit this interesting dynamic with a guy like Ben Hutton, where it's like he would be more of a stand-home physical guy, and then you let Hutton free wheel and be more offensively oriented. It was the biggest, like, square peg, round hole thing ever.

Because Grants is not that guy. Yeah. Good Branson is good at a couple things. Like beating the crap out of people's one. He's quite effective of that actually. And P.A. guys like him in the room. Yeah. Because he's kind of funny and he'll stand up for anyone.

Like the thing that he did in Toronto this year was probably, when he threatened to kill Matt Martin, was probably the most like endearing thing that he did all year. Yes. And you know what? That stuff, it resonates, but not nearly as much as like old school kind of like goon thinkers do. But it does resonate more than like people that dismiss an entire thing. Because people do care about that. It does, right? And there's a happy meeting between it.

But the thing is, is you can't pay a ton for it because there's a lot of guys that can go and do that. There just really is, right? There's guys in the H.L. There are, totally. And there's guys in the H.L. That are beloved by their teammates and they're good, greasy guys. And, you know, Smither and Steener and all those guys like they're, and those guys are great.

They're around and you can find them. But that's the thing is you can find them. And I, you know, I am deeply concerned about this. this negotiation. I am. This is the one that's going to kind of define their summer. Yeah. Because it'll kind of give you a good indication of where Benning's heads at going in to next season. Yeah. Because if you double down on Gibranston, you're like, well, you know, with a couple small tweaks and a couple of additions and all the good young guys we got, maybe we can push for 8th in the west. And that's, and then all of a sudden it's like groundhog day this year all over again, which I don't ever want to relive. Yes. Yeah, that's the thing with a rebuild. If you're going to do it properly, like you really got to stick to the plan, which is a good full circle for us because we've started. I'm not talking about how, as long as you have a plan.

You do. Like, that's half the battle. And you know, I will give this management group a little bit of credit for altering it mid-season and then executing it the way they have. But I still am not 100% convinced that this thing's going to be. I feel like there's like a lot of outside. And we talked about too many cooks in the kitchen. I feel like there's a lot of outside influences that is part of the reason why the goalposts are always moving. It's like, you know, they might be like.

like, well, if this happens and if this happens and, you know, maybe we, we pull a decent deal in the off season and maybe we make some moves of the draft and, you know, and at the end of the day, it's like, you just need to go full hog on the, in this thing and strip it down and rebuild. And, I mean, like, when you came on our show, we talked about the Louis Erickson thing. Like, it's a perfect example to me. Like, if I'm betting on that, I'm punting on that too. Yeah. And I'm saying, you know what?

Like, the situation changed. And again, I don't think it's a huge indictment of Erickson. I don't think his play has been mesmerizing this year, but it's certainly not horrible. His strengths of what he's bringing to the table aren't very well utilized on a team that stinks. He needs to be around better guys, probably needs to play with better linemates, and he could be a more valuable contributor somewhere else. It's not going to be here. Well, the interesting about a guy like Erickson is, you know, he was one of these players that for so long was,

like, the poster boy for, like, the most underrated player in the league. league, whatever that means. People would always point to that. He's so underrated and he does. He's so underrated. And then the trick is like once you start making $6 million a year or whatever, you stop being underrated. That's exactly it, right?

And now he's an albatross. Yes. Really. And I feel genuinely bad because I guarantee that this is not what he signed up for. Like not in any way, shape or form. Like I'm sure he knew about the team. Yeah. I'm sure he knew that there was a ceiling about where they were going to be.

But I fully expect that he thought that he was going to be with the Cedines for the majority, if not all the year, that there wasn't going to be a fire sale of the deadline. And that, you know, year one into a six-year deal. I guarantee he didn't think it would be this bleak, the outlook of it, right? Yeah. And that he'd have, like, horrible shooting luck at the start of the year. Right.

Everyone would kind of just turn on him and everything that went wrong, pretty much went wrong for him. Yeah, exactly. And this is the biggest payday of his career. Right. I mean, and this is like something that he's earned having put forth like many good seasons, including his last year in Boston. and now it's like, the first year could not have gone any worse. I don't know how you get out from under it.

I mean, I've got a lot of different, like, crackhead theories. Like, what things you could do. But the reality is, it's just, it's one of those ones where it's like, you would be almost better served to be cut bait with it now. Yeah. If you could. Yeah, if you could. I mean, it would have been interesting if they could, like, talk him into exposing himself

for the expansion. Well, that's one that I've thought of, right? It's like, you just put it on the table. and be like, look, you can possibly be picked up by Vegas. Yeah. And at the, you know, it could give you a fresh start, you know, they couldn't be in anywhere shape than we're going to be in. You know, they might be able to flip you because they're going to have a ton of cap space

and they're going to have a lot more maneuverability than we will. Yeah. And the other thing, too, is it's like, you know, there's a pretty good chance, Louis, that they're not going to take you. And what it allows us to do is protect a guy like gaunt. If we can, so by, you know, nature of all this, you'd be helping out. the organization. Then we could do something in return for you. Maybe we could flip Vegas a late round pick, say, please don't take Louis Erics, but we're going to protect. I mean, those are options that they would have at their disposal that I think a smart team would do, right?

Because there'd be no sense in losing a guy like Don's, who I think is a very likely candidate to be going to Vegas, right? And there's no sense in losing if you can avoid it. I mean, just you laying out with that potential scenario, it got me so excited thinking about the expansion draft, and then you try to reconcile that with the fact that the league is considering not releasing lists. It's like, what is happening? Well, okay, I understand that GMs don't want those lists publicly. I get that.

They want people not to be able to evaluate whether it is the right or wrong thing. The craziest wrinkle that I've heard is that they were only going to let Vegas see the list. Only Vegas. So everyone was going to submit their list. And then Vegas would have all the information. So it wouldn't go public and it wouldn't go to the other 30 GMs as well. Now, I can't imagine that that's going to happen. But it's been something that's been floated so that they can keep all.

All the information in house. And look, it would be so misguided and such a bad judgment call if they didn't make this stuff public and let people go nuts with their inner fantasy nerd. Because this is what it's about. Well, when you put it that way as being misguided and the wrong decision, it makes me think that it's definitely going to happen. It's the NHL we're talking about it. I know. They have shown a little bit of, like, awareness that, like, aside from like the cap geek and cap-friendly stuff, they have shown a little bit of awareness recently that, you know, got a better feel. of the pulse of the fans. And at the end of the day, look, honestly, they know that this stuff's

getting out anyway. Like, how many, I give 48 hours before McKenzie and Friedman and LeBron and all those guys have these lists public anyway. Chris, Johnson, your sports net colleague, had the must protect list within like eight hours of it being out. Yes. Like, there's no way. And so it's like, are you really just going to make these guys dig to get the information? Like, why not just be transparent, right? And I think that's going to be the big argument when they bring in front of the PA and when they bring in the front of the GMs is like, there's no way this stuff's going to get protected anyway. So you may as well to have it all out there. Yeah. Now I'm with you 100%. Um, okay, a good way to wrap up this podcast is I thought it'd be an interesting discussion for us to have, uh, because now

that I've reached some low level of stature in this industry, people always ask me, you know, how can I get my foot in the door and how can I do what you're doing and I think you're a great person to have this discussion with because I consider you and your and your colleague Jason Brough as two of the hockey hockey blogging OGs. The OGs are like angsters. Yes, yes, yes. I mean, you guys were doing stuff for the province like, where like, oh, nine. We started the province 2007, 10 years ago.

So I'm not even giving you enough credit here. Yeah, we started we started in 07 and then we left for a while and then we came back and then we started 1040 in 2009 and then started NBC in 2011 so I've been in NBC for six years. Yeah. So I mean like I started during the playoff run in 2011 when you know stuff was reaching the fever pitch here in Vancouver and it's like I'm just obviously the landscapes change quite a bit since you guys started. It's getting much more. I feel like it's getting much more attainable which probably like it must be kind of like a notch in your in your in your in your. or feather in your cap just like looking back and like like like at the time you guys got into the field i feel like it was uh it seems like kind of like a distant like pipe yeah it did it did

like we can actually do this for money and pay our bills it was it was weird like we didn't we never had a plan we just kind of start actually we were both working at an online gambling company and at lunch one day we're like we should start doing like because we were always sitting talk about hockey roller so we should do a conox blog and we should do a conachs blog And we didn't think anything of it. And then we just started writing and kept updating it because our office jobs were menial and terrible. And everything just kind of progressed because we just kept kind of like picking away at it. I think in terms of like now, the thing that we had going for us back then was it was really unique.

Because no one in this market especially was like trying to blog full time. Like we used to get like, I'm old enough where I got like mom basement jokes and they were relevant. And they were like kind of still funny. Yeah, yeah. And it was, and, you know, and it was the same thing. We ran up against a lot of roadblocks in terms of getting credentialed and trying to get paid for the work. And people like, are you guys taking this seriously? But now, you know, the accessibility is crazy to me.

Like, there's so much that you can do. And, you know, I look at the guys that are doing Canucks Army. And it's like the volume that's there. And I appreciate that their credo is always like, people. People are so thirsty for as much Kinnock's information as they can get that we're going to give it to them. And I think that's a great way to go about it. So it's like, yeah, write profiles on guys that are playing in Utica. You know, follow these guys that are playing junior.

Like, take it as far down as you can because you're outworking a guy above you, right? Like, you know, it's just the inevitability of it is that guys that have been in the industry for a long time aren't necessarily there for the grind. Right. Like they're older. They've kind of gotten comfortable. to be quite honest, they grinded their way up to where they're at. They're not wanting to do it anymore, right?

Yeah. There's such, I mean, there's such a market and a thirst for it. And there's so much more available at your fingertips, right? Like, you know, I, I remember it was a nightmare when we were doing the original curtain block stuff to try and get any access or availability, talk to anyone. Like, you know, it was mostly creative writing.

Right. That's what we did. Now, I mean, like the Kinnock's Army guys wield as big of a stick as a lot of people in a lot of writers in this town, right? So they can talk to people, they can go, you can do a lot of different things. And that's kind of what it comes down to now. It's like,

how deep a dive are you willing to take and how big a grind are you willing to undergo? Because that's how you're going to make it. And it's not going to be pretty. Yeah. Especially at the start. Like, I mean, we, we were doing the, so we were doing articles in the paper.

We were running the blog, and then we were doing the radio show at night. That was like every non-Kinnucks night. We'd go on from 10 to midnight. Like, no money. Like so poor. You got to get your reps in. Sorry?

You got to get your reps. You do. Yeah. And my wife was pregnant at the time. And I was like out to like all hours and I'd be coming home. And it was like it was just going on and on and on. But like I kind of saw a light at the end of tunnel. I also knew that we had gotten a really good opportunity doing the radio stuff.

Like it wasn't something that they were just handing out like candy. Like we were able to go out there and talk and work on a craft and at the same time grow an audience. So we just jumped at it. Right. So that's a big one. At what point do you think this stuff really like turned the corner and kind of became what it is now, like more mainstream and more people getting into it. Because I feel like even when I got into it, like sort of spring 2011, it was still like

there weren't that many people blogging about hockey. I know. It doesn't seem like a long time ago, but it does. Hockey's an interesting one because like everything's kind of come about the last 10 or 15 years, right? Like the statistical lean obviously like hockey was pretty late to the game compared to some of the other ones. Like there was well established baseball and basketball stats guys like well in advances, which you know obviously. And then just in terms of like blogging on an everyday basis and bringing some color to it. Like hockey's a pretty like watered down sport personality wise, right?

Yeah. I mean, I remember like when Jason and I first started, we used to read Bill Simmons like religiously, right? And you got to remember when Simmons was first going when he first started at ESPN in like 06. or whatever it was, he was churning out, like, book length blog posts and, like, hilarious stuff, right? And just, like, these, like, really entertaining, like, personality-driven takes on stuff. And we were, like, we want to do that, right? And that's something that it still hasn't really necessarily, like, fully taken up because

hockey's, it just doesn't lend itself that great to it. Like, the NBA's perfect feeding ground for that, right? Like, there's so many personalities. There's so many whack jobs. And there's so many, like, awesome narratives that you can. and follow. Hockey's a little more worn it down. So you kind of have to bring the personality yourself and that can be tough.

Well, especially with what you guys are doing now because, you know, you're mentioning when you guys started off doing your stuff, like you could kind of just have fun with it and be more and more creative. I feel like now you guys are doing a lot of like hits on like transaction news or like stuff like that. It's like how do you,

I imagine like you guys are both like creative funny guys. Like you must be. Well, that's why we got the radio show back. Honestly. Like, because look, when we got in an NBC, we knew that it was going to be like a big like significant narrative shift and like a cultural shift for us because like we were like the guys that like liked our drink and like going to sporting

events and like we liked having a good time and like having a laugh right and that just wasn't in the cards there at the same time the opportunity was off the charts when we came on board it was when they NBC had picked up the NHL rights for 10 years right I mean you just don't pass off an opportunity like it like it was huge and and then you had the lockout and Yeah, and then we had the lock of the year after and everything went downhill. But no, like, it was, so we, there was a good four or five year window there where it was like, the personality stuff just got drained entirely. And it's tough because it's like you just kind of become a different writer and your personality takes a different lean and everything.

So it was important to get back to doing the radio stuff where we could be like, let's kind of get back to what we liked doing. And then it was just like balancing different platforms, right? It's like we've got this Monday to Friday that, you know, we kind of take a more serious slant and we follow the quote unquote pro sports talk look and things. And then on the weekends we can sit around and drink beer and talk about hockey on the radio. So, I mean, this might be a bit of an awkward discussion just because you are technically like on the radio, although you guys do like post your stuff online and so. And you can see it later. But like the, I mean, we're doing a podcast right now and podcasts are obviously like everyone has their own podcast at this point. do you think they like sports talk radio is still going to exist in 10 years?

Yeah like the radio is funny man because there's so many people that are like preset to it. And this is just from the technical standpoint like people listening in cars, people listening on work sites. Like I just don't see that fundamentally changing a whole heck of a lot. Like it's very entrenched, especially the AM and PM drives home. Right. People are just dialed into their radios right now. Like the advent of satellite radios probably it's dug into it a bit. You know, there's more and more people that are, you know, downloading podcasts and listening

to that on the drive home as opposed to being tuned in. But the reality of it is there's still dial flippers just by nature. And we see it all the time too, right? It's like, and especially with news is vitally important. Like if you're, like, because I guess 1040 is kind of a news. I mean, there's news updates and people, too, be like, I want to know what's happening in the game tonight, right? Right. It's going to be difficult.

It is going to be difficult because anytime people can tailor their listening habits, like they're going to do it, right? So it's like if I'm going to the gym and I'm going to work out for an hour, like I'm probably not going to fire it on a station that's going to be interrupted by commercials every five minutes. I'm just going to have some continuous streaming listening. Yeah. Or I'll listen to music that'll be completely in. So in that regard, I could see it being a problem. But, you know, in the interim, I think there's enough of an appetite for it. And it's also very much tied to, like, live rights, right?

Of course, the Canucks radio rights and everything. Yeah. So that's a big part of it too, right? Because people do, shockingly, there's a big listenership for it. Yeah, there is. There is. So, I mean, you guys only do two hours a week now in the radio. Yeah.

But, like, see, that's a thing because, like, I'm always kind of equally impressed and always, like, just confused by the people that, like, do radio every day. for like hours at a time because like I'd love to do this podcast on a daily basis but I feel like I would just constantly be repeating myself and really watering down the product because there's like only so much one person can say creatively before you're just going back to the well over and over again and it's like these people that do it on a daily basis like obviously the content probably isn't as high quality because the person literally has to repeat themselves like 50 times over course of a week we've done like a week filling in for one of the four hour shows

By the end of the week, you're like, I can't believe I've never talked this much in a five-day period before. Like, it is crazy. And you're right. It's like a lot of the time it's wash, rinse, repeat. And you kind of have to go over that. And it's tough, like unless you're doing a ton of prep work. And at that point, it becomes a really labor-intensive job because you've got to do like an hour of prep for an hour of radio. So you're looking at minimum eight hours.

You go home, you decompress. Then you're right back at it talking. Now, some people will say, what are you complaining about? you're sitting around talking about sports all day. It's not that. True. It's not that. Yeah. And yeah, which is totally fair. It's more just about the radio. It's like, I think people sometimes forget that it's like very oratory.

Like you have to have like a sense of what the ear likes. And that comes down to simple things like how guys' voices sound, their cadence, their ability to talk. And you need to implement all of that, right? So like if you're mailing it in one day or if you're flat, like it's going to resonate. Right. And it's not going to sound terrific. And then the other thing with content, especially,

and it goes back to being in Vancouver, you are whittled down, man. You do not have a lot to talk about. You know what I mean? Like, I could not have gone on this morning and done, um,

any one of the morning shows on 1040 and talked about all the March madness that I watched over the weekend. Right. Like, there's no chance. No one wants to hear how I stayed up a little bit later than usual.

Do you want to talk about it right now? Yeah, yeah. I think you're sending me like some not so subtle signals here. Like no one. No one wants to hear about my thoughts on Lonzo Ball. Yes. It's just, and, you know, if you go south of the border, that's what a lot of people are talking about today.

But the market dictates that you've got to kind of keep it boiled down to it. You really got to cater to your audience. And it's tough because you've got to fill a lot of time during the day, man. Which is why their motto is a lot of, it's like pregame all day. Like, that's what it is, right? Like, as soon as you wake up, you're talking about the pregame. All right. All right.

Plug some stuff. Where can people find you online, where you check out. Yeah. Pro Hockey Talk at NBC. at NBCSports.com. That's my, that's her, that's her baby. That's what Jason and I have really grown all the way. How many posts are you doing a day?

Oh, man. I think I averaged it out that I'm doing about between five and six thousand words of copy a day. Like it's just, yeah, it's an obscene amount. It's a lot. Yeah, it's a lot of stuff. We tried to whittle Adele. Yeah, there's some days that you're crazy.

Yeah, pro hockey talk at NBCSports.com at Halford, PhD. And then Curtin Blog Radio, every Saturday. day three to five on the mighty TSN 1040. I recommend checking all that out. And thanks for coming by and chatting. Thanks, buddy. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdiocast.