The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 155: Total Hockey

Episode Date: March 29, 2017

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss what he's watching for in the final two weeks of the season, fantasy book potentially intriguing first round playoff matchups, and float out some abstract ideas to change the game in the coming years. Here’s a quick rundown of the topics covered here: 1:45 Jockeying for position 6:45 The downfall of the Kings 11:30 Potential wheeling and dealing in Vegas 16:50 Pacific Division storylines 21:30 Western Conference Matchups 29:00 The Blackhawks sustained run of excellence 35:30 Nikita Kucherov as an MVP candidate 41:30 The Metro Division race 48:00 Positionless hockey 50:00 Developing in Europe Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Dimitri Filippovich. and sitting across from me, PDOcast, Mount Rushbourne, member. I think you're like the first name on the mountain itself, or maybe, maybe second. I don't know, it's you, it's you, Mike Johnson, and Jeff Merrick. It's Chris Johnson. Chris, how's going, man? It's an honor just to be mentioned. It's an honor just to be mentioned.

We are recording this live face-to-face here at the CBC building in downtown Toronto, and this is fun. Yeah, we're in the actual room where the guys on the panel watch the games. there's eight televisions in front of us and this is where a lot of the planning goes on before what's set on air. Yeah, the last time I was here was during last year's trade deadline

and I remember there was nothing going on especially for like the first handful of hours of the day and I'd just like pop in here and like Doug McLean would be in here holding court and like sharing all these stories and all the stuff that was being talked about in this room I feel like was like

way more interesting than anything that was happening on actual television set which is pretty funny. We should just mount a camera in here because I think that's often in the case. Actually, this year, I came in during trade deadline, and Elya Brze Gallov was sitting in the chair right to my left, your right, and he was

just on fire telling weird stories. I imagine the people involved probably wouldn't want some of this stuff to go public. No, it's like anything. Even when I go in studio and do a radio head, and you have a couple segments, the best stuff always comes up when the commercial break comes,

and probably even the same movie for you and I when you turn off the recording material. No, that's not true. We always give the best, the best... We're bringing the heat. Today. Yes. So we don't really have talking points here. I mean, not that PDOCES ever has like a script or anything, but usually I have like four or five bullet points in case we have nothing to talk about.

But we really are in this weird part of the schedule here where it's like everyone's just kind of waiting for the first round of the playoffs to start. And it doesn't help that there isn't that much intrigue. Like there's some jockeying for position, especially in the Western Conference. And we can get into that in a bit. But like out west, we know who the playoff teams are going to be. So it's not like we're really like coming down to the wire here trying to figure out who's going to make it and who isn't. It's pretty well decided already. Right.

And when you talk about jockeying, I mean, I almost feel like you really just focus on the last two or three games then to see where it's going to end up. I mean, it's less game by game. Game by game is, you know, a little bit more in the Eastern Conference if you're falling the lightning or the Bruins or the Leaves or the Islanders. You know, those teams that every single night, whether they win or lose and what happens on the out of time scoreboard impacts where they're at. but we haven't had quite as much of that this year. And, you know, it's felt a little bit like a long season now. I don't know if you're in the same kind of mental space, Dimitri, but having a World Cup at the start, you know, which was a month,

in my case, it was great. But a month straight of work and then into the season and the games have been so compressed. You know, right now I'm fatiguing. I'm just trying to save some energy and peak for the playoffs. This is probably a stupid question, but we're never going to go backwards in terms of the number of games. that are played in the regular season, right?

Like, it's going to, if anything, you would, like, increase, like, 85 or 90, if anything would ever change. Like, I just can't see it. It's just, they're just leaving money on the table, basically. Right. If anything, that's, like, five years away from being five years away. Yeah. Because, you know, I do wonder in seeing what's happening in the NBA now,

where teams are just outright resting stars on days they decide. It doesn't matter nationally televised. Doesn't matter the opponent. And part of me wonders why that doesn't happen in hockey. I know right now I've seen a few people asked about it. And to summarize the general reaction, it's like, no, never in hockey. We would never do that kind of this warrior mentality that is if you can, you know, if you're 60% you're in, no matter what the circumstances.

But, you know, given the schedule, there's probably worse ideas. I don't know how you best do that, but, you know, numbers guys like yourself can sit down and probably produce a pretty good argument about ways to play your lineup and then things you can do to maximize everyone's, you know, a chance of being healthy and fresh. And then if that ever happened, I know the NHL would have big concern, just as the NBA does. And maybe that could lead to some kind of schedule change, which I would think would be less games, but we're still talking to fantasy, probably, big picture. Well, I think definitely you nailed it in the head there, like the sort of machismo culture of the NHL.

But I mean, just learning from other sports, like it does feel like hockey's maybe a few years behind some of these other sports. Right. It's like I wouldn't be surprised at all if we're having the conversations the NBA people are having right now in like five years or something. And it makes sense that like listen, especially for these teams right now that have locked it up. Like, or I remember last year the capitals were pretty much set as like the president's trophy winner or at least the best team in the East like for weeks and weeks on end. And it's like what do they have to gain really from playing these guys other than the players themselves just saying like I want to play or Ovechkin being like I want to try and score as many goals as I can for. my own individual, you know, career goals and stuff like that.

But it's like there's no doubt to me that players would be much better off. And the product would probably be better because you want the best players playing at their absolute peak without being injured and being worn down by the grind of the 82 game marathon. Right. And you just think sort of like it's an advantage if your guys are fresher than the other team's best players. If it's a team that, you know, say like those teams, I mentioned the East right now,

that every game is sort of like their game seven in the moment here is, we get down to less than two weeks left on the schedule and where some of the, you know, Washington's going to play the wildcar team, you know, could end up being the Leifes. You know, the Leafs have to squeeze everything that can out of the lemon right now. Well, the Caps, I guess, well, you know,

the Metro Division, it's own separate conversation that we may get to, but, you know, they can kind of coast in, and I would think it's better, you know, for their star players to have, you know, we've even seen Barry Trots do what he's played. Alex Havichkin less this year. Right. As an example.

and that just makes sense to me intuitively. The one thing I've thought about, though, that could less in the regular season is a new playoff format. If there's some kind of plan or more teams make it and you essentially add another round, that might be one way to see less regular season games. Yeah, I mean, just so that we, every, like, you want to maximize the length of time teams

are actually incentivized to keep playing, and trying to play their best players. And let's bounce around the league and look at some of these playoff scenarios right now. I think that out West, we already have the eight teams, basically. But I'm kind of curious because I haven't really talked much on the show about just what happened with the Kings this year. And, you know, it's a very easy thing for the anti-analytic crowd to be like, well, look, the Kings are once again atop the league in Corsi. But look how it hasn't gotten them anything in the past few years. They've either missed the playoffs or lost in the first round.

and I have my obvious answers to that. Like, it's pretty clear that they are a below average finishing team and have been for years, and that definitely plays into it. I think no one would disagree with that. But it's like, just have we gotten any resolution for why they approached the trade line the way they did at this point? Like, it just seems so bizarre they looked at their team, and we're like, Jerome McGinla is the only scoring punch

we need to bring to this roster right now. Yeah, I don't really have a lot more interesting. insight on that, but it's, it's curious. I mean, Dean Lombardi has done a lot of outside the box things, and some of them have worked. I'm thinking of acquiring certain players, like even Jeff Carter. He bought low on Jeff Carter at that time, and, you know, he has added players that clearly helped them in their Stanley Cup runs, but, you know, he's also made decisions like this one where, you know, I can't say it hurt them, but it's hurt them longer term. He expended future assets. Well, I didn't think it was just the opportunity cost of they basically,

just they had like one or two trades to make and they just chose an interesting direction to take them like I got I got the argument of they had a bunch of back-to-backs and playing you know at west they just wanted to maximize all those games and have a good goalie starting in each of them and it makes sense in principle but it's like when you need when you have a bunch of holes you're trying to patch up to prevent your sinking like just seemed like there were a bigger bigger things that they probably could have tended to well scoring is yes I mean the most obvious one and maybe maybe on some level the organization's gambling that it's going to turn around but it's seen a lot by by late february if you're them and and um it's it's it's tough because you know i don't know

where you go from here really i have an idea you start to blow it up but i don't know that's so tough because like they're still they're really getting into that dangerous spot here where they're their stars are still good enough to win them like a high like a they have like an elevated baseline where they're not going to bottom out and they have all these guys who they're committed to either financially or because of what they meant to their franchise or the past handful of years. So like they kind of want to see this through and and give them a chance to win. But it's just tough with see it with this core, like unless something really falls into their lap. Like I don't know that Columbus has stopped trading with them. I'm not

sure that there's anything anything obvious. Hey Columbus is doing well in the PDO circles. Come on. Well, they're doing well now. Yes. Yeah. So I guess you look, they got Copatar. He's had an off year offensively certainly. But do you? He's on the first year of an eight-year deal, and I'd still be comfortable betting that he's going to be a player you want in an impact position. I mean, they've got to make a decision on Doughty shortly, on an extension for him where the number is going to be.

Are you as surprised as I am that Jeff Carter has been aging as gracefully as he has? I didn't see that coming at all. Look, he was among the leading goals scores all year this year. I mean, it's... And, like, for percentage of, like, the team's offense for a while, it pretty much every night if he wasn't scoring, they just weren't kind of scores as a team. It's crazy.

I mean, you wonder, teams, he could have been had, I think, by a number of teams. Back at that point, I remember the day that Columbus made the big swing for him at the draft in Minnesota 2011, and then it didn't work out at all in Columbus, and his stock was pretty low at that point. He's given you, what, five to six more years from there

of really high-end play. And I don't know, how old is he now? He must be, like, early 30s. Yeah. Born. I mean, he's still got some years, you would think, at him. Yeah. So, you know, with, even if you just start with Doughty, Copitar, and Carter, just as an idea,

and they still have other obviously good pieces. I mean, there's a lot to build around there, but there's a few dead weights on their cap situation that, I don't know what you do with, you know, a Dustin Brown contract, Marion Gabbitt contract, and, you know, Marion wasn't very healthy this year. Yeah. Didn't produce much when he was. there's some tough decisions and you wonder actually to be honest if dean Lombardi's going to be the one making them and certainly Daryl Sutter is somewhat in the crosshairs as a coach yeah you mentioned dust and brown there and like i know that

it was kind of a popular topic of discussion and just easily being like well it seems like a guy that Vegas might be interested in just because like he's sort of a name in nchel circles and they might just try to take on some contracts like that and maybe maybe the kings would be incentivized to give them an asset or two to get that contract off there but I think that something I haven't had a chance to talk with you about since, I don't know, generally I'd like to think that I'm pretty on top of NHL stories and sort of thinking outside the box. But I remember a few weeks ago someone brought up the potential.

I think it was at Elliott Freeman in one of his 30 Thoughts articles where like Vegas can in theory pick guys up and then flip them to other teams if they're interested in the players. I never even like thought about the possible machinations of that as well. Like I thought of teams giving them like a pick or a prospect to take on a contract. They didn't maybe wouldn't want otherwise. But I never really thought of like if I was running another team and I was like I contacted Vegas. Like if I was a division rival of a team, let's say. And I knew that they probably wouldn't want to trade a certain player to me.

Like let's say like a camp follower or something like that. Right. And it's like you can contact Vegas and all of a sudden maybe swing like a sneaky little three team deal there or something. Like it's a lot of fascinating stuff that could happen there. It's going to make for a great June for those. It seems like every hockey. Are you going to get a second. tough one? No, but I'm going to get a second battery for this one. I'll say too, though, the one thing

someone pointed out to me as well is that Vegas will likely take a couple UFAs from teams that they don't see anything from and just not sign them. Because, you know, you only have a 23-man active roster. Every player, essentially, you would be adding in the expansion draft would need waivers. I mean, you don't need just, you don't need 30 bodies in any way. And, you know, so there's the, there's the flipping of those players, but I don't think there's a ton of guys. Maybe some goalies. I mean, that's where it could get interesting, because they are going to have some goaltenders,

the Philip Gru Bowers, likely Jonas Corpusallo, I think Mark Andre Fleury will be one of the guys out there for them, and plus some younger type of goalies in the HL systems where maybe they can take those players and flip them, but, I mean, what a crazy thing. Someone told me that they're going to have five deals we hear about that are documented,

probably five more that we're suspicious about and five we have no idea about that are like totally hidden in a drawer and wink wink in 10 months something happens and it's connected to something that goes down here at the expansion draft obviously the NHL wants as much of it to be up front

but I you know my sense of things in speaking to George Rick Fee a bit is that he's probably the busiest gym in the league leading up to the trade deadline and even beyond now his teams try to get a sense of what he's going to do and position themselves to lose the player they want to lose. What was your, when we got wind of the fact that the league might not want to release some of these lists,

what was your takeaway from that? I wish I was surprised, but I'm not. I mean, it's ridiculous, frankly. I mean, if you're expanding, look at this is, first of all, there's been a year now of talk about this team and what it might look like and how it might impact other teams. And, you know, my sense of things is this has created a whole bunch of interest around the league because even if you're in Pittsburgh and your Penguins fan, you're wondering, you know, how is this going to play out for your team?

And there's going to be so much excitement about having an expansion draft for the first time in almost 20 years that, to me, you want to get all the bang for your buck out of it as possible. And the biggest point is that this list is going to get out in one way, shape, or form eventually. Why not just release it, give us all three days to speculate wildly and, and, and, you know, try to do our digging and do radio hits and pediocass. Yes. But, you know, I'll curious to see where it goes. The NHL got a lot of backlash.

Yeah. After that was kind of floated at the GM's meeting a few weeks ago. And, you know, I'm not sure that's written in stone. They're going to do it that way because it really would be an opportunity lost. I mean, you can't just pretend this thing isn't happening. Yeah. And I just have a TV show 72 hours later and be like, here's the team. Yeah.

You know, and all of a sudden they're like picking guys. You're like, how did he pick him? when this person was available or what have you, you know, it might be uncomfortable some of the players on that list, I guess, to have it out there. It makes sense why the GMs wouldn't want it public. Like, it's much tougher to evaluate them based on if we don't have the information of who they may have made available

or what they decided to keep. And that makes sense for there, but it's like, this is just such an easy, just opportunity for the league to market itself in a fun, exciting, fresh manner, which is something I think the league desperately needs at this point. So it's just bizarre to me. And, you know, my sense is that there's probably going to be a couple what we would call good players or name players left available that might not be picked for various reasons because, you know, Vegas is worried. You know, they're not just looking at each team as an individual.

You know, they need X amount of goalies, X amount of D and forwards. And they might end up skipping over a good player, but I think it would be interesting to know that. And that would be part of that team's story going forward, especially that player plays well next year or what have you. I just, come on, this is in a sport where there's no. trades now. Yeah. I mean, the waiver wire was the most exciting thing we got all year this year. Well, this is, this is going to be like transaction Christmas, I would think. Leading up to June 17th and, you know, beyond once the draft goes through. And I really hope the league rethinks and stance on it. I as well. Okay, so out West, I'm looking at the standings right now. While it's been decided,

we do have all four Pacific teams separated by three points. Tough run for San Jose lately. Very tough run. And it's weird to me because I don't know what to make of it just because it's felt all year that they were just kind of lurking in the shadows a bit. Like, you know, they had that poor luck early in the season in terms of like they were one of the teams that their expected goals were so much higher than their actual goals for.

And that kind of level down. out as the year went along and they started winning a lot of games. But I mean, obviously they have bigger fish to fry here. Like they, after getting a taste of all that success last year and they brought the same team back, it makes sense that, you know, they're gunning for looking at a bigger picture. But it's, I just don't know what to make of this because obviously I think everyone would just love to see like an Edmonton Calgary series. I mean, the storylines write themselves.

And I'm sure that the company you and I work for would also enjoy that quite a bit. But I think all of these are interesting matchups because just with, like, even like Anaheim, for example, it's, it was so easy to make fun at the start of the year with how they approached the summer and what they did with the coaching situation. And, I mean, they've just kind of kept on winning games. And I don't know, like, it really is wide open to me at this point, I feel like. The West especially, I don't recall a year like this. You know, Chicago could still be. and they're obviously coming out of the central as the team that gets through,

but you don't really have one alpha team that you're like, well, they have to get by them. You know, in the east, I think you probably have two between Pittsburgh and Washington, whichever you like best, and say that anyone trying to challenge has to go through those teams. And it's a difficult one to handicap.

I still think the sharks, I like the sharks, and I believe going through what they went through last year can be a good thing. and there's just a different mentality. I mean, look, Joe Thornton out of a contract after this year.

So how do you envision that going? Because I love Joe Thornton, and I think that last year, somehow he was underrated. Like, there was a lot of... We were giving him a ton of love on the PEDOCast. Especially for the Selke, just because we were kind of thinking about how we evaluate defensive play

and just the fact that he always had the puck whenever he was on the ice made him just a dominant defensive player just by principle. But this year, like, I don't want to say he slowed down because, you know, he obviously uses, like, positioning in his mind more than, and his reach more than natural speed or anything at this point of his career. He's not Connor McDavid. But I don't think you're going to mix those two guys up.

But I think that it gets worrisome the fact that he's, for, like, the longest time, he was, like, shooting, like, less than one time per game, which, you know, that's never, especially lately, has not been his strong suit by any means. but like you still need to be at least a bit of a threat in that regard. And I'm always alarmed when guys shot rates just completely creator like that. And I don't know. I'd be, I totally get why they would want to bring him back

because he still means so much to that franchise and he's still a productive player. But I don't know what he's going to like, do you have a sense of what he would want realistically and whether he would be able to attain that either in San Jose or on the open market? Well, certainly seems very interested in enough. number of years on his contract. He's not one of these guys, like Yager has been now for quite a while,

just doing one-year deals. Take it each year. I think Joe wants some security in his next deal, and I would expect it's not going to be much if any of a decrease in pay. Someone will give it to him. It's hard to imagine him leaving San Jose at this point.

But, you know, we'll see what happens in the playoffs. I mean, if they win, you could debate, it might be easier to leave, potentially, or might be easier or harder. It's a strange situation because his relationship has kind of been hot and cold too. Right. You know, at times with Doug Wilson, yet everyone stayed together.

Yeah. Patrick Marlow remains there. And they've found a way after a lot of disappointment to get very close last year. And, you know, I think this guy is going to be the next jogger. I really do in terms of playing well beyond our expectations. but I do find it curious that they haven't committed to him for next year and if he gets anywhere close to July 1st,

I'm certain he'll have quite a bit of interest, perhaps even from Vegas. That would be an interesting landing spot for him. I don't know. Is there anything else out west that is like a pressing topic we should be hitting at this point? Like I just, it's so tough to talk about any of this stuff

until we know the actual playoff matchups that are going to happen. Like there's going to be so much movement here in the Pacific in terms of these teams could really throw us for a loop rather than just spending like 15 minutes talking about something that's not ever going to wind up happening. Is there anything you're looking for out west

or any sort of resolution you're hoping to find in these final two weeks or so? Well, it's kind of neat actually that literally any team can almost face anybody. I mean, it's so cramped together that nothing is set. You know, I would like to see that Calgary-Adminton series. Yeah.

If we're going to have this crazy, bizarre playoff format, might as well get some of the bang for the buck, and part of it, of course, is to try to force those matchups a little bit, you know, more down, more to happen. And given how long it's been in Edmonton, obviously Oilers fans will take whatever, whatever they can get after waiting 11 years. But in Edmonton-Calgary series would be cool.

You know, I'm very curious to see how the Randy Carlisle, Anaheim Ducks fare in the playoffs, because, you know, I think it's fair to say they've outperferial, they've outperformed what a lot of people would have thought outside of their front office, who I know had high expectations for them. And Jonathan Bernier's been carrying the mail for them too. So that's another team to watch. But really, I'm with you.

I think it's a jump ball. And the first round is going to be particularly interesting there because any number of teams could win around and sort of reimagine what we're talking about for what it takes. Honestly, not even just winning around. I feel like winning the entire conference. Like, I was going to say, I, so how many of the eight teams could you see winning? I think St. Louis is the only team I realistically could not see winning it.

Right. Like you're not, you can't create a scenario where they. I mean, you could, it's the, it's the NHL playoffs. In theory, any team that makes it can go on just a dramatic run to the cup final. Like I, I just think that's a most much bench. Calgary had a great run. I think Calgary is really good. Like, it's, this always happens whenever a team goes on a winning streak.

there's like the backlash where people like they're not that good it's like well yeah they're not going to win the rest of their games until the end of time but like all of the stuff was there suggesting that even before they started winning those games that they were playing much better and you know now you have johnny goodro just on fire and and they're rolling the lines and and i just i don't know just they don't really have very many weaknesses i would have i really wish they would have done something more the trade deadline because like there was this real opening here for them to legitimately be the best team in the Western Conference and they didn't really address it with bringing in Curtis Lizarre. I just thought that that was kind of a half-ass. Yeah, I mean, like, I don't know. I think,

I understand why they were hesitant to, you know, go fully all in at this point just because it's really tough to do so, but just bringing in another scoring winger to play on that top line, for example, would have been something like, just for the price that there's this running joke. I mentioned PA parents on every podcast, but I mean, really, like, he would have looked amazing on this team and I just can't. Six-rounder, was it, Nashville paid to get it? I would have paid a fifth. I would have been willing to entertain that idea.

The deal might have happened a day early if you're willing to do that. And in control of a team. Yeah, the other thing is like... So I was thinking, I was like, I think you can make an argument that Calgary's might be the best team in the Western Conference. But then I was thinking, like, do you want to play in a series where Connor McDavid might be playing like 25 minutes of the 60 minutes? Like, that seems frightening.

No. Yeah, I mean, like, because there's no answer, right? I mean, that will be the storyline. So-and-so is matching. McDavid, this defenseman, this center maybe. Yes. And whoever the answer is, I don't like their odds. I just, I don't, I mean, I always thought that stuff was overblown, like even, you know,

the Gerardi McDonough versus Ovechkin stuff. Like, it's like, they did a good job of getting in the shooting lanes and irritating him and stuff. But like, with McDavid, I just don't even know how you would construct a game plan other than just commit penalties on every single play and just hope that the refs can't humanly call every single one of them. Like that's, that will be the game plan. I mean, it will be articulated differently, but it's essentially do everything within the rules

and even some things without to frustrate him, get in his way, perhaps even injure him, although that will never be spoken about loud. I mean, that's going to be, try to intimidate him. And obviously, like any star player, that was probably the game plan. You remember, Oshawa played Erie in a series with him and actually beat him.

And that was the game plan. They were just all over him and tried to make his life miserable. But in general, players like him who are special find a way through. So while we're on the Oilers, something that I've been keeping an eye on that hasn't really been talked about much, just because everyone's so excited about the fact they're winning and they're finally like relevant again and not in terms of draft. So you're going to be the bringer bad news here? Well, I'm just curious because we just saw this play out with the other Alberta team with Sean Monaghan where they never really explored whether Sean Monaghan is actually a good player.

and his own writer, whether he was a bit of a product of who he was playing with, and they just threw all this money at him because he played really well with Johnny Goodrow. But we're seeing that a little bit with Leon Dreisaito, who I'm pretty sure is a really good player. But it's tough to know because he basically went from playing full-time with Taylor Halt to now full-time with Connor McDavid. And we haven't really seen them ever for an extended period of time explored Leon Dreisaitle and two guys to see if he can actually. elevate those guys like great players probably should be able to do.

It's a good point, and I hadn't thought of it that way. I mean, it's such an interesting summer for Peter Sherelli because he's likely dealing with the McDavid extension at the same time as, you know, Leon Drysidal's entry-level deal is up, and I don't know what you do. Yeah. Let's put McDavid aside for a moment. I don't know what you do with that dry-siddle contract.

How long did they just bridge him just to see? Like, I don't know. Might be an argument, though, from the... I mean, there's only so much you can do. do, and you only played three years in the league. There's no arbitration. You can hold out, essentially. Drew Dowdy missed the start of what would be essentially his fourth training camp with the Kings and eventually got the seven-year deal that he got, which for a while was a benchmark for a defenseman that age until Aaron Eckblad blew it out of the

water last summer. But it's a tough place, and the organization, albeit not with Peter Shirelli in charge, kind of got into the trouble of just handing all those guys the six, seven, your deal right out of entry level. And, you know, I think they're going to be a bit more shrewd about it this year. And you don't probably know. I mean, they have a feeling. I know the player, but it's a tough position. And that's why it's good to be around great players.

Yes. Because all of a sudden, everyone gets paid a little bit more. Patrick Ramaroon is just nodding his head fever. Yes, exactly. Patrick Ramon, a cast off with the ducks. And, you know, got himself in better shape and earned a spot beside McDavid and has made the most of it, but it's fair to say if he plays with anyone else next year, wherever his goal totals end up finalized this season.

He's not toppling that. He could even have a great shooting percentage run, and I don't think he could binge to this. This is a good as it gets probably for Patrick Mourouin. Yeah, but all right, let's move out east. I think we've covered the West here pretty good. I mean, we didn't really talk about Chicago, Minnesota, Nashville, but I think all three of those teams are, it's not like a controversial opinion. All three of these teams are really good, and it's just going to be a matter

of matchups and luck with injuries and health. And I still think like Nashville probably has the highest ceiling in terms of everything comes together for them. Like I think that they have the best roster. Or is like a Rene? Well, and see if I'm, I'm assuming that UCSarros is eventually going to be the goal at some point in these playoffs. But I don't know.

Like I guess we haven't really discussed Chicago much. They've also been, you know, we're talking about how San Jose has been flying a bit under radar because of the success they've had. and Chicago's like that too, and they were this hot regression candidate early in the year, and they've been playing really well. And I was talking about this with Greg Wischinski the other day when we were discussing awards, but, like, Joel Quenville is someone who should be getting a lot of Jack Adams buzz because he's just been pushing all these right buttons with all these young players coming

from the AHA and from the college ranks, and they haven't really missed the beat. In fact, they're much better this year than they were last year, which I don't think many people envisioned just based on the fact that they didn't really, like, add anyone while losing players and they just got better. It's kind of weird how that's worked. Well, I guess they've added players from inside their own organization, right? And they've been able to maybe fill around the margins a little bit with some of these guys. I mean, to me, this is the best run organization in the sport, just in how willing they are to try new things.

And even when you look at the way they construct their lines, it's sort of what you're mentioning with dryside. I mean, it's been taves with two guys sometimes with respect to the two guys at any given moment, but they're not just building super lines or trying to find ways to be the most well-rounded team. And it's difficult to talk well of them because they've just come through Florida and given up a whole bunch of goals, 12 goals against the Panthers and Lightning. Were there any fishing trips involved? I don't know.

I'd have to ask John the tapes if he was working. I mean, it's that part of the year, though, like you really don't know because they've got the division locked up, essentially. And maybe they are taking it a little bit easy. If there's a team that kind of knows about what's coming, it's the core players on that one in terms of what it would take to win a Stanley Cup. If they can win a fourth, I mean, that's...

Yeah. I mean, they're already in rarefied air. I'm not... I mean, we'll see. Maybe the Penguins get three kind of with this core and would tie them. I don't see L.A. getting another one with the core, although maybe they'll make me, my words.

But, you know, it's really hard to do what they've already done, and they look like they could do it again. That's... That's what stands out to me, is their blue lines a little deeper than it was. And, you know, Corey Crawford's been good, and they got the scoring. Yeah. It's an awesome, like sort of historical footnote in the middle of this dynasty of theirs. They had that one year where they lost to the Phoenix Coyotes in the first round of the playoffs,

which seems like an interesting little blip in the radar. Right. And last year, St. Louis. Yes. And that was a heck of a series because that could have. No, but I mean, yeah, I think especially the year they lost to Coyotes, like that was the year Mike Smith was out of his mind and I think Corey Crawford was really, it was like before Corey Crawford actually became the Corey Crawford we know now.

Right. It was a goaltending mismatch. When I look at this Blackhawks team, I'm reminded of this article that I read on the ringer during the Super Bowl week where it was a story about how the Patriots were sort of zinging when other teams were zagging in terms of roster construction because in the NFL it's sort of shifted towards this pay structure where teams are, you know, paying their top guys a ton of money and then they're just trying to fill it out with the cheapest guys possible around them. And the Patriots just sort of found this little niche market where they could just like,

maybe it's just because of the culture they had or whatever, like, if they're, I don't know what, but they could just basically convince, like, all these guys to take these, like, mid-range salaries and they just had this immense depth because they had all these guys that weren't making too much. They could fill it all under the cap. and obviously it's a different sport but like the Blackhawks are fascinating to me because it's the it's a polar opposite of that where it's like not very many teams

are like they are in terms of they have like all these guys just making an insane amount of their percentage of their cap and then they're just filling it out with all these guys they've been drafting and picking up off the scrap heap for super cheap and I mean I guess when you have you know Duncan Keith Jonathan Taze and Patrick Kane and

Corey Crawford you can you can fill in the margins elsewhere and you know for the toughest part is getting those guys of course, but I'm always fascinated about how teams allocate their cap and how they choose to fill out their roster like that. Well, they've done an amazing job to me of convincing college free agents and in European free agents with Artemie Panarin being the guy we hold up highest, that they have an opportunity because that's counterintuitive somewhat in itself because often, you know, crappy teams would get those players because they could say,

hey, look, we're going to put you right in the NHL, we're going to play X amount of minutes. well the Blackhawks were able to say the same thing even though it would seem less obvious but the reason was of course is every year they've been generally losing a player or two of significance due to cap constraints and that has been a stroke of genius actually at the time when Panarin signed

with the Blackhawks I know the Leafs and the Flames were two of the teams that really thought that they were right there that it could go either way they were just waiting to hear it's like if you've ever been on a house and you're just have those nervous moments and both of those teams had lots of openings in their lineup and we're a bit surprised that Chicago won them.

I mean, now it's another good problem to have, but they've had to pay Artemie Panera and now they're going to lose more players because of them. But I think that their ability just to find ways to keep adding talent and juggling it and making it work, I mean, that's going to be, that's the model I know they're working off here in Toronto. Yes. Where they know it's not that far off paying Matthews and Nylander.

and Marner some bigger dollars and that they're going to have to keep adding you know they're not just focused on growing the team as it looks today because it's it's harsh but but there's just no room in the capital I think that every team should be just churning

it's again it's I know that's tough on this players families in their lives but right if you don't have good enough now you got to keep moving I think yeah no I agree with that completely let's let's talk about the Leafs then let's let's let's do the Eastern Conference a little bit here So there actually is a playoff race to watch here at this point. There's three points separating the Leafs, the Bruins, the Lightning, and the Islanders,

and only two of those four teams will make it. Do you think Tampa Bay has enough left in the tank here to have one final push here? Or do you think that they just dug themselves too big of a hole in Boston and Toronto or just good enough to hold them off at this point. I think Tampa can do it. I mean, this Tamco's thing kind of hangs on it. And obviously, you bring back a center even for five games. He might not score, right?

I mean, you might play great and not score. But he could also score six goals in those five. You know, it could be that small. What I like about them is, and I don't have their schedule in front of me, but I know they play Boston at least once more in Toronto, at least once more. And that alone just suggests that they do somewhat have their fate in their own. hands. And I think they're a good enough team. It said a lot that they went down 4-1 to Chicago and came back and pulled that game out. And I've been really reticent about writing this team off

because I just believe that they have it in them to get there. I mean, Victor Headman is having a monster season. You know, that Braden points been pretty good for them and is pushing shots in the right direction. I just think that they do have enough going for them to get in, but this is what I love about the end of the year is because you just know, out of nowhere, a goalie that we're not even thinking about could reel off five or six straight wins and be enough. I mean,

you can be a bit lucky now, frankly. If you're in this position, if you're that close, it could come down to luck that determines which those two teams get in. Well, so this is interesting because today I was writing about the MVP race, and I wrote how, you know, it really should be Connor McDavid.

But I think that I'm leaning towards second place on my hypothetical imaginary ballot that I don't actually have being Nikita Kuturav. And it's fascinating to me that I feel like more people are talking about like Stamco is potentially returning at this point than just realizing how great Kuturav has 17 goals in his last 17 games. And you know, I think Krosby's the only guy who's averaging more points per game this season than him and he's on pace for like 45 goals and 96 points or something like that. he leads the league in power play goals and power play points and it's you know i think we can agree that stamco's probably like the best trigger man in the league although lyona is definitely coming

for that title but tampa bay is like the third or fourth best power play in the league and a lot of that has just been kuturov has been amazing filling in in that spot for him and i don't know just it's it's it's crazy man it makes sense you know a russian guy and he's not stephen stamcoes he's playing in tampa bay it makes sense that he's not getting some of the some of the traction and some of these other names in the race are, but he's been, he's arguably been like the best player in the league for the past month or so. It's crazy.

Like, I knew he was really good, and I even made the case during last year's playoffs that they should prioritize signing him long term over worrying about Stamco's, and they got both guys done, obviously. But, man, he's really just taking his game to another level that I didn't even really know he had. Do you have his bio there? Is he a second round pick?

He is, yeah. So, and he was a healthy scratch in the playoffs in 2014. Yep. I mean, that's probably why there's not the hype, too. I mean, he didn't enter the league with that hype, even in his initial foray with the team. He couldn't crack the lineup. And, you know, now he's just driving. And it's, I mean, that's, again, that's kind of the formula for out if you're a team like Tampa.

But I know they haven't won a cup, but they've been pretty close to keep it going. Is fine guys like that that can, you know, be part of your turnover. And you probably have a case. I haven't done my deep dive yet. Next week is when I really dig into the awards. I try not to... I know you always get asked if I do radio hits and stuff, but I try not to presuppose in a weird way.

Like, I'm really trying to approach it as fairly as possible. I take it seriously, frankly, to try to get it as close to right or what I think is right. But he's, I mean, it's an interesting conversation this year. Like, to me, where do you put Crosby? I mean, it's so tough. I feel like he's been carrying them though and they have all these injuries.

He has. And they have that remarkable like what we just discussed with the Blackhawks where it's just like they just plug these guys in from the HAL that they've either drafted or signed to college. Yeah like Carter, Rowney, like just all the every time I open up a Pittsburgh Penguins box score

it's like someone scored or assisted that I'd never really heard of before. I don't know how they do it but they're just getting it done. The Blackhawks did that to me with John Hayden. I'd never heard of him. He played a second NHL game. in Toronto when I was at the game. I was like, John Aiden, who's this guy? And then, of course, he scores his first NHL goal in that game. So they always, you know, these teams are always fine

guys that can at least play. Yeah, the cross, the crossy one's tough because I don't, I still think the Penguins would probably be a pretty good team without him, but obviously, like, the toughest thing in the NHL is going from good. Like, there's a lot of teams and players that are good and can hang in their own right, but then, like, taking that next step to being great is, like, what you really, for and what it's really hard to find. And obviously a guy like Crosby sort of takes them to that next elite level and that's worth a ton. But I'm just not sure like like Edmonton without Connor McDavid would not be a playoff team.

I feel very confident in saying. I think that the Penguins without Crosby, you know, they wouldn't be where they are right now. But at least I think they'd be like within shouting distance or they'd be feistyer than. So I don't know. It's tough balancing those things. But I mean, obviously. If he has a hot finish though and they win the president's trophy and let's, say, I mean, I think McDavid actually has put enough space that we can pretty much give him the

Art Ross, but if he were ever to claim the Art Ross, it looks like he's going to win the goal title, he'd be the first player since 2002 to win both most amount of goals and most amount of points in a season. He'd have a case. Anyway, and then there's Brent Burns and Brad Marshawn and down the list. There's a whole bunch of guys there. Yeah. So let's talk about that president's, that race at the top of the Eastern Conference standings because you know Washington Columbus and Pittsburgh are separated by three points right now and man

I think all three of those teams should be trying very very hard here to win as many games as possible here down the stretch which you know you'd think that they'd be they're all good teams they should all be looking ahead to the playoffs and trying to make sure they're healthy and well-rested and have all their ducks in a row for their first round matchup but there's such a massive difference here not to take anything away

from those wildcard teams but like for Columbus especially I mean I get I get ragged on a lot for not giving them enough love on this show so let's talk about the blue jackets a bit here like they've had this magical season they had that was 16 games 16 game streak uh fantastic story and you know they might wind up not even having whole mice in the first round against the pittsburgh penguins here like how that would just be an absolute disaster for them not that they couldn't still wind up winning that series, but like that's a pretty tough draw, considering everything that they've gone through the season. It's unjust. Yeah. Honestly, I don't see any other way to... We heard Yarmo kind of publicly voice his displeasure with the current system, which I

enjoyed because not too many people have been rocking that boat and, you know, aside from like bloggers and media members, but actual people in the game. Well, my sense in talking to people around the Blue Jackets, I was in Columbus last week, is that there's a fine line for them. They feel, I'm certain of this. They feel what we're about to say about it. But, you know, they still have a playoff series to approach. You know, I don't think that they want to give any sort of reverse bulletin board material or anything. You know, I think that they feel they're probably best left out of it in the heat of the moment for the most part.

Although that's why what made Yarmel's comments interesting. But, you know, you play a whole season, and especially when you have their history, this is just patently unfair. They could finish with 112 points and open on the road at Pittsburgh. Yeah. You know, you have the three best teams by points in the same division. That was no one's design. And, you know, we're probably not even going to get to the Rangers in fourth with more points than the team that they're going to open up on the road, the Atlantic Division,

where likely the Montreal Canadians. I mean, this, I don't like the system. I don't like seeing this. I don't know how other teams, even if it doesn't impact them directly this year, don't go to the league and say, like, we can't have this. Are we locked into the system for a certain period of time? or if there was enough backlash and outrage this summer, would that be something they could possibly look into changing for next season?

My understanding is two more years is the agreement. But, you know, if everyone agreed to change it, I don't know why it's sort of like a CBA, as long as both sides made that change. And look, there's incentive for players to want to change. If you're a player on the Blue Jackets, you end up only getting one round, you just look a little, like your marketability is a little less.

I mean, you know, and obviously the number, numbers look to try to get these sort of biases out of our judgment of players, but players have played two and three rounds or four rounds, all of a sudden, he's the best third line left winger you've ever seen because he's doing it at that time of year. And, you know, most often third line left wingers aren't why a team is in the third round, right? So they need to be around good players to get that far. And so anyway, there's a value if you're a player to going on a long playoff run. I mean, there's also financial stakes. There's an increased playoff pool. And it's, I mean, look, it beats, I mean, as much as the golf course probably looks good.

I mean, I think, you know, it's just, it's a tough spot. And I honestly feel for the Blue Jaggons. It's not to say I don't for the Capitals and Penguins, but they've both had a lot of kicks at this. I just, I wonder, and it's a question, you know, what will this team be next year? Because they've had a lot of health and they've had a lot of things go right as you need to do to get to this point. And, you know, reasonably, I don't see a lot of changes in their future in terms of

of being involved in free agency or anything like that. And, you know, they're probably going to take a step back next year. Who knows? Maybe they'll get fourth in the division and it'll be the best spot in the whole conference. There we have. The Rangers have shown that to be the case. No, I tweeted about this the other day and it was a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I'm actually the idea is growing on me that I think Sergey Bobroski should win the Vesna, the heart,

and the Jack Adams. I mean, like, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's remarkable the season he's having. I think he has the best save percentage of any goalie that's ever won whatever, like 40 games or whatever, not that goalie wins are a metric. We should be touting too much or getting too excited, but it just shows that, you know, they've been winning a ton of games, and he's been a massive reason why. And yeah, it's, it's, I just wanted to give Columbus a little bit of love here because I know that people, especially Blue Jackets fans, get mad at me for kind of skipping past them and when we do power rankings and different discussions like that.

Well, they'll be, they'll be happy that you mentioned him in the heart conversation because they feel he's been a little bit left out of it on the, on the national stage. When I talk about the heart, I'd never talk about goalies because I honestly, I don't even, I don't view goalies in that award, like in the, in the, just even as a possibility for that award, because if I did, then I think one, two, and three would all be goal. Like, goalies are easily the most valuable players for their teams. And if you have one guy in there, like, it seems weird to me to be like, Bobrovsky should be a finalist for the heart.

It's like, well, then the second and third guys in the Vesna trophy race should also probably be the second and third guys in the heart race. Like, it's just... Well, Kerry Price at least had such a historical season two years ago that I didn't, that didn't bother me at the time. But I'm with you in general. I mean, there's a Vezna trophy that kind of awards it to me. the goalie most valuable to his team in a sense.

I had someone ask me, how do you do defense and forward though? I mean, that's, that, like I'm just saying, and I think Brent Burns has tailed off a little bit, so maybe this conversation is pertinent. But in general, how you weigh those, you know, because Eric Carlson might have a pretty good case. Chris, you don't have to worry about it because I've heard that Eric Carlson and Brent Burns

don't even play any defense anyways, so just treat them as forwards and they're just going that way. I'm joking about this. I know. I want to know how far off we are to not having positions labeled that way. Oh, man, I've been beating this drum all season. I think it's still a ways away just because hockey is so, like, just rooted in its conventions and how it's been, like, you always hear this stuff.

It's like, it's the way we've always done it. Right. Even if it's not a reasonable argument, but it's like, I definitely think that sometime down the road, you're just going to have five positionless guys. I mean, it's going to have to start at the, at the, lower levels because you're going to have to prepare players for skating backwards all the time

and stuff like that, right? Like you're going to have to just prepare guys to play all the positions at once, but I do think that just looking into the future that's probably where we're headed. I think the game's going to be better off. I can't wait until we see teams say in certain situations use four forwards in a certain

even strength situation and one D or maybe consider going the other way. You know, the Sabres, when Rasmus first line and just got a three-game suspension, their first power play, you know, was five forwards. And I know a few teams have kind of done that for certain periods of time, but it feels like we're getting closer to this stuff being more mainstream. And I just want to see that evolution,

because to me it's a chance for smart teams and well-coached teams to gain advantages in the game. And we just have to maybe remove some of these thoughts we have about it. Because, I mean, it's come a long way even since Carl. I remember the first year Carlson, was at 11-12, I believe, when he was first one as Norris. And back then, it was like a defenseman with points. Like it was almost, you know, Mike Green back, but just before that, people just were, there's a pushback against the idea of someone who score 30 goals as a blue liner.

Now I think there's a little more acceptance. Let's just hope there's not a campaign out there to get a certain, I don't know what would be. Let's have a fair vote. Yes. That's all I ask. Actually, one final thing based on this that I would. wanted to run by you. Something I've been giving some thought recently.

So I'm all for these ideas of experimenting and, you know, trying out various different combinations, whether it's five forwards at even strength or, you know, just what have you, just, especially for a lot of these teams that don't really have anything to lose because they're already not very good. Why not see if you stumble upon something that works? But then I get the counter argument of, you know, if you're not very good and it doesn't matter and you're not going to win any games, why would you unveil some of these potential? potential sort of aces in the hole that you could have down down the line when you could actually

use it to like win a key playoff series or something just out of the blue um so then i got the thinking of you know the a hl for example would seem like a really good breeding ground for some of these different experiments because especially the teams that control what's going on down there they could have a organizational mandate to try certain stuff and play a certain way but then like i feel like the HL is such an interesting league to me because it's like you have all these journeymen players that are just hanging on for dear life. Playing

three and threes with some level of regularity. I'd always be wary of like if I was running a team of having my young top prospect playing down there because it just like it seems like you always see these like wild videos of like crazy headshots and brawls and just weird stuff going on out there. But then I was

thinking of like what's stopping a team from buying an overseas team in Europe and using that as their feeder system to try stuff out. And then I was told that the Kings apparently bought a team in Germany or something like that, I believe.

Yeah, the Berlin team. Yes. They own the building already. Aegee owns the arena there, and they've installed Luke Robitai onto the Berlin team's, you know, executive directors or whatever they call it.

I don't know what their full intent is with that. I mean, I wonder if there's, if it's just that they see an opportunity to make more money in Berlin for the company, or if maybe there's some synergies in hockey operations that they're not currently making use of. Well, what's stopping, like, MLSC, for example, from buying a Swedish elite league team or something like that? I don't think anything. And the interesting aspect of that that you just triggered my mind is, we have seen a couple teams in recent years assign their prospects over to Europe.

instead of have them play in the HL. And, you know, one of the reasons teams don't like doing that is because they lose, they feel that they lose more control when they're that far away and they don't have a say in how the ice time goes on that team. Right. What have you. Whereas, you know, if you're Alexander Nealander playing for Rochester, Buffalo's Farm Team, they can dictate how many minutes he plays no matter what's going on. But if they have it in Europe, I mean.

But if you own the team and then you put your own handpick coach there with your staff and you have your assistant GM working there, on a daily basis and all of a sudden it's like your HL team but it's kind of away from the public eye here so you could kind of try some wacky stuff and maybe people in Europe would notice but maybe other NHL teams might not like it just be it seems like something that you know it's obviously a lot of money involved but I mean if you're kind of thinking outside the box it seems like it'd be an interesting business venture right and I'd have to explore the rules to be 100% sure but

nothing jumps out to me initially I mean I guess they plan bigger ice surface so Maybe there's less value in trying some of the stuff you're talking about when it's a bit of a different game. But certainly for developing prospects. And I mean, why not? Yeah. Exactly. Why not? And look, those teams with money and we've seen the Leafs do a lot of different sort of little gray areas of the salary cap and different ways the CBA works.

What's not to do that? I mean, I think that if so few teams have that ability where they could even contemplate this as a real conversation, but there are a handful of big companies that own teams and you got to try to get your advantage anywhere, really. Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it. All right, Chris, I've taken up and off of your time. You're a busy man. It's a busy time of the year.

Thanks for coming. I guess I came by to chat this time. You didn't really come by. You brought it to me. Yes. We'll have you back. No sirens this time. No sirens, yeah, no, this is good.

We'll chat once the playoffs start and we'll break down some series and what's happened. You don't know, I guess we don't know any of the series yet, but do you know what your assignments will be? I guess you're going to be all in on the Leafs if they make it. If the Leafs hang on, I'm part of that series. And if not, I'm of no fixed address. We have staff writers in Montreal and Edmonton, so I wouldn't be part of those. I mean, maybe Ottawa, maybe Calgary, maybe, you know, Pittsburgh or something. I'm not too sure. But I look forward to seeing wherever you end up, the one thing I'll say is the playoffs, especially the

The first round is amazing. You could be, you pick the two most nondescript teams, whatever they are for you in the league, and they play a first round series. It's a good place to be. It's honestly, it's funny. There's no remedy to this, but I feel like it's just human nature.

Like, I'm way more excited about the first round of series than I am about the Stanley Cup final, like, ever. Like, it's like, I'm always like, oh, man, I can't wait for this. Like, all these games mean so much now. And then, like, you have games going to triple overtime. And it's just, like, you're up all night, and there's four games going on every night. And then, like, by the time you reach mid-Jew and the weather is nice.

and it's all these distractions, and you're just so burnt down from the season, and you're starting to think about the draft and free agency. It's like, we work up until this, like, ultimate final series, and then by the time you actually get there, you're just like not, you're just over it. Well, and you all will be speculating wildly about Vegas. Oh, yeah, this year's going to be crazy. Coaching changes and this and that. But, I mean, I guess the other thing, too, is by the end of the playoffs,

you know for sure who's good, so you kind of know who should win. Whereas the first round, there's all that unpredictability that comes in. to play, it seems, every year. All right, CJ. We'll talk soon. Sounds good. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.

At soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.