The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 157: The Olympic Impasse

Episode Date: April 7, 2017

Craig Custance joins the show to discuss a variety of topics: 2:20 The Olympics standoff 13:00 Rebuilding the Detroit Red Wings 22:00 The league's least desirable destinations 26:00 Top Free Agents 29:30 Letang's Injury Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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My name is Demetri Filipovich. And joining me is my good buddy Craig Hustins. Craig, what's going on, man? Oh, nothing. Just getting ready for playoffs and hitting the road for the next few months now that the local team here in Detroit has not offered me any home games in the playoffs. That's really the status thing about the street. It's making me work a little harder, the streak ending.

Yeah, it's insane because I have never been alive for the Red Wings, not being in the postseason. which is weird. Yeah, I'm 20. You're under 25 years old? I'm 25, exactly. I was born in 1991. Oh my gosh, a 91.

Yeah. Good for you. You are young. I don't realize that. Yeah, so this is weird. This is a very uncharted territory. But listen, we're at the time of the year where we're starting to see some of these young guys get called up

for a few game cameo to maybe show the teams and their fan bases what they can do. And we're giving you a chance here to make one last-ditch frenzied effort to get your face on the PDOCast Mount Rushmore. Oh, that's what this is? Oh, wow. I feel like my record speaks for itself to me, and if my previous appearances didn't do it, I'm not sure we're going to be able to rescue it today.

No, I think it's going to be a great show. I think it's been a great show. I saw you the other day on, you were on CNN talking about hockey. You didn't have a British accent on, but you're the host date. It was a pretty impressive showing. So this is a bit of a downgrade in terms of, you know, the prestige of the show, but I think we're still going to have fun anyways. Oh, good.

The other one, I was accused of, I did an appearance on Outside the Lines, this is kind of a journalistic heavy show here in the States on ESPN. And I was accused by friends of having, of faking a strong Canadian accent, which is, I don't have to go back and listen to it because I guess I've always, I guess I hang out with too many Canadians or being north of Windsor. Yes. That's what happens. Well, I mean, it just instantly like gives you a bit more cloud in the hockey community

if you sound like you're Canadian. That's right. Let's talk about the Olympics. I feel like you're the right guy to talk about this with. Basically, let's just lay the scene out. Like, how do we get to this point where we're at right now? It's a great question. You know what?

The longer this dragged out, the less I was worried about it because I just assumed if they, NHL didn't want to go, they weren't going to go, and we would have heard about it. And the fact that it took this long, I'm like, well, then there's a negotiation to be had. And at some point, somebody will offer the NHL whatever they feel like is worth it to go. And then we're going to go. And it never happened. I think it started, you know, if you want to trace it back away, it starts with the IOC pulling the money, the funding. And if you, to believe Gary Bettman, that kicked the hornet's nest, that is the own, NHL

owners and all of a sudden guys that weren't really weighing in on it were now there was a debate on whether or not to go and and they were upset about that and by the time the iHF came up with the money um this was already a full-fledged debate and that's i mean that's the nchel side of it um the pa side i you know i i certainly understand it like here's this huge opportunity the next two olympic games to promote the nchl and the sport of hockey in an area that's right for growth and I had somebody point out to me, if you look at, if you had a graph of the revenues league-wide of the NBA, let's go back 10 or 15 years, and the NHL, and he said at one point they were pretty close to each other, and the NBA has just skyrocketed, whereas the NHL hasn't. We're in a stagnating cap, and that's a part of it. And his reason was they didn't dive into that market as aggressively as NBA has successfully. And I think there's some validity to that. Yeah, yeah, I definitely think so. I mean, I think the NHL just in general has a bit of a marketing problem

or just an issue kind of reaching into these different fan bases and getting new fans because it does a really good job of catering to its already diehard fans, but it's like to take that next step, you've got to get those new fans that aren't necessarily either on the fence or aren't even into hockey at all right now that could be potentially swayed. Yeah, and in some areas they do a great job of that, like Gary Bettman has been aggressively expanding into the sunbelt. I've given full credit for that. And some of these markets,

I know I saw Aaron Portsline out of Columbus was tweeting. There's some sort of celebration of hockey and Columbus going on the next couple of days. And I look at that market and none of that existed 20 years ago. And I mean, it does seem like when there's an effort by the league to hit a new market, the sport sells itself. And that's the frustrating thing. Like I think the NHL succeeds in spite of itself at times because, hockey's, I mean, obviously we're biased.

The hockey's great. It's a great sport. It's got everything you want in a sport. And it's only getting better with the more that the skill is highlighted. And sometimes I just think that they don't think big enough as a league. And we're too happy to kind of just placate this little niche of the world that we live in rather than expand beyond that. Yeah. I mean, I'm pretty sure if you just sent Connor McDavid to like every single different country out there

and just let people watch him play hockey, that they'd all of a sudden have a lot of a lot of new fans. Like it's pretty hard. It's pretty tough to watch a guy like that. And there's so many other guys like that, whether it's Matthews or Eichel or where you go on down the list, like just guys where they're just so captivating and so exciting. And they really do, as you said, just sell themselves.

They do. And so here we are in this golden era of young talent coming in, each generation or each draft year, I guess until this year, you know, almost seemingly better than the last one. and, you know, skill off the charts because these kids have all been working with skills coaches since they were 12 and skating. And so they're coming in and they're flying.

And we're going to tell that generation, no, you stay home for this Olympics. And if the IOC is to be believed, maybe the next two Olympics, if those threats of Beijing are true. So, I mean, that's what kills me. It's like, yeah, it would have been cool to see Crosby try to defend the gold or gold for three

and all that stuff with that great, you know, as Pierre LeBronlikes called the golden generation of Canadians. But to me, the killer is that we're not exposing the world to Austin Matthews and Connor McDavid and Patrick Lainey and these great young stars and Jack Eichael. I don't know, because we don't have hard metrics, I guess. That shows it works. So from the league's perspective, I mean, I've heard them toss out the idea that

they don't want to go do these Olympics because it'll throw a monkey range in the middle of the season. But, I mean, I find that to be an interesting approach because it's like you could argue that the World Cup before the season would mess things up even more. And I think that, you know, the players would all say they love it. The people covering the league, like you and I definitely love the Olympic break. Like, I think it's much more to do with the insurance issue and the financial incentives, right? Yeah, real. Yeah, I guess.

I mean, I don't know what the true reason is. It can't be, like, it can't simply be because of the shutting. down of the season because, and this isn't my own original thought. I mean, everyone has said this, but the league has no issue shutting down the season every time there's a CBA negotiation, right? So, you know, so to get what they want, they'll cancel an entire season. But, and Dave Loza wrote a great column on it yesterday. It just basically saying this idea that there's any momentum in February of hockey,

like we're losing momentum by going to the Olympics, I mean, those are like the dog days of the season where you see teams kind of slip in. to losing streaks because of disinterest. And like February hockey, I mean, you know, we're all focused on the trade deadline stuff. I don't think there's a huge, you know, wave of momentum that's lost

by going to the Olympics. I mean, if they really truly believe it, then they wouldn't have wanted to negotiate or had the CBA conversation about extending that. Like if they really truly believed, it killed the game, then you say that right away. You just don't go. But the fact that they

were willing to engage in those conversations, suggests that, you know, they were. Yeah, yeah. The season's already way too long. I definitely think that having a few weeks off in the middle of it would be a very welcome change of pace. But so let's, from the players' perspective, yeah.

This is happening February 2018 is when the Olympics are. And a great example is Eric Carlson's contract is up, what, like five months after that? Like, I mean, Eugene Mellick's already been on the record saying that he wouldn't let him go, but is you really willing to risk losing Carlson in free agency just because he wanted to save face and stand his ground here? Like I feel like that's a very silly approach for an owner to take with such a big decision looming. Yeah, we just posted. I had that conversation with Alan Walsh. You know, Alan is so outspoken.

And clearly it's a one-sided conversation. So you have to, you know, in terms of you have to realize he's coming from the player's perspective. but, you know, he made this, he made a really good point. He said at some point the league's going to announce, he's going to take it out of the owner's hands. Right. And even if an owner wants to go, they're going to set up a fine or whatever the punishment is

that's so restrictive that even, you know, an honor that his support of their players wouldn't be able to do it. And then he believes that, you know, the relationship with the NHL and these different federations is going to prevent the federations from even engaging in these. And even if they want the player, I think his quote was somewhere along the lines of, you know, maybe no place for these players to go.

And so he thinks it's very sincere that these guys are saying, we're going no matter what. But then he suggests that when push comes to shove, it just may not be a realistic option. Yeah. Frank Saravale also wrote about how he raised the idea that the league could even penalize teams by taking away draft picks and stuff, which I think that.

Yeah, that's going to be fascinating. But I mean, then the next domino to fall would be like, let's say the league just takes out of the owner's hands and the players can't go. Then I wonder how that. that's going to go over with the players in the NHLPA come September 19, 2019. Awful. That's awful. And that's the worst part about this.

And I'm hard on the league now because it's frustrating. I think it's short-sighted. And I'm not going to, I don't want to give the players a complete free pass. Because anytime the league wants anything from the players, there's, you know, they have to give up something. And anytime that's, there's something not specified in the CBA, there's a negotiation. there's a negotiation. And, you know, for example, and I keep bringing this up, but, you know, the league wanted to go to three-on-three all-star format. So the players asked for a, you know, the week, the by week.

And that's how it always goes. And so for the players, and maybe they offered something to the league. We don't know the backroom dealings. But, you know, I think there should have been something, a goodwill offering. So I think there's, I think there's some blame on both sides. But, yeah, I think we're now all of a sudden, it's poisonous. And I think we're, I'm sure we're heading down the past. half of another extended CBA negotiation, which is miserable.

And what hockey fan doesn't love some good old-fashioned lockout talk? That's the best way to keep my interview. Yeah. Brutal. Should we dive into escrow and hills to die on and all the good stuff, dust off all those phrases? I think we're going to have at least a couple months to really bring all that back. So let's enjoy the hockey while we have it. We have pretty loyal listeners who generally know what's up and how we do

here in the Hockey PDO cast. So they already know all this. But for those of you that may have just randomly stumbled upon the show for the first time, in which case, where have you been all along? I mean, we've done over 150 episodes by now. Or those of you that don't have your hands free at the moment and can't skip ahead a couple times to this ad like you normally do. And I don't blame before that.

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you're pretty familiar being down there in Michigan. And I think that Elliot Friedman had a fascinating section in his latest 30 thoughts column about the Red Wings where he featured some Kenny Holland quotes and sort of brought up the point that, at least just based on how Holland's spinning it right now, that he doesn't envision this being a long rebuild. Do you buy that, or do you think it's just kind of putting up a brave face

and that they'll actually kind of tear this thing down and start from scratch. Sorry, I cut out right when you said what Kenny Holland told Elliot, so I don't want to, I don't want to. He basically told him that, you know, he doesn't envision this being a long rebuild. Yeah. And I'm just wondering, do you think that that is something that is actually, he actually believes, or do you think he's just kind of putting up a brave face in front of the media? No, I think he believes that. And that aligns with conversations I've had with Ken Holland.

and I mean, he could never say this, but for every Toronto and Edmonton success story there is where you bottom out, you get the generational player you want, there's, you know, there's probably twice that of teams that have been bad for a long time and the rebuild is taking forever, and they may not ever get that guy. And, you know, in Detroit realizes this.

And so I think, you know, on some level, they've been preparing for this, and Ken Holland would tell you, they, you know, they've been, keeping their first round picks and they've tried to keep as many young players in the system as possible. I think the other thing to consider that makes Detroit a little bit different than other teams in this situation is they've, you know, they've spent two and a half decades building up a culture of winning. And I don't think there's a huge appetite to strip that down and tear it away and lose that.

And, you know, I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but, you know, people are raised in this organization here in Detroit to win and to play the right way. and winning it and put the team first. And if you tell them on some level or you indicate to them by the roster you're putting out there that it's okay not to win, then you lose what's been handed down from Steve Eisenman to Nick Lidstrom to Hendrik Zetterberg. And I look and we can talk about culture

and sometimes it becomes a punchline in the world of hockey, you know, amongst people that maybe don't believe in it. But I just look at the, if you look at the way Henrik Zetterberg has played this year and whether or not he believes, believes, you know, and kind of we're trying to win at all costs no matter what the scenario is. I've seen him play some of the best hockey in years and, you know, well beyond the point

when we all realize the streak was over. And this is a guy that's playing out of his mind right now. And I just think that's the credit to him. And, you know, a guy that takes pride in what the Red Wings have done through the years and wants to keep it going. So, you know, I do believe they believe it can be a fairly quick. turn. But from the outside looking in, I see a lot of the pieces missing that you need to have a successful playoff team. Yeah.

I mean, as someone who living here in Vancouver has gotten a sea up close, a formerly great team refused to embrace and accept the reality of how much things have changed over the years, I would strongly recommend they think long and hard about how they attack this summer because it's like, it is a very slippery slope where if you try to half-asset sometimes, you can really set your franchise back a few years just because, you know, eventually you're going to have to make those difficult decisions and you're just basically putting them off. And it's tough because you look at this roster and you look at some of the money they have on the books. And there's a lot of long-term contracts here for players that are in their late 20s or early 30s that it's kind of tough to tell those players like, yeah, we're just going to we're going to suck for the next few years for the final few years of your contract.

It's a really tricky balance where they can't just go fully with a youth movement just based on how much money they've already invested. into this team. Yeah, and as we know, the only way to really truly win in this league is to have that franchise centerman or that franchise defenseman or ideally both if you're the Chicago Blackhawks or the L.A. Kings and or Pittsburgh Penguins. So the only way to get those guys that are at the top of the draft. But like, I just think there's a fear that you could end up like, I think you look at the other teams in the same era as the Red Wings. You know, the better comparable maybe,

then Vancouver and some of these other teams is Colorado in New Jersey. Because they, you know, those were the teams that the Red Wings were going toe to toe with kind of in the heyday. There's the Devils and the Outerlatch. And it was great rivalry with both teams. And, you know, Colorado, since tearing it down since the heyday, we're probably looking at another rebuild. So they tore it down and they got Duches and McKinnon. And that hasn't worked out as planned. And so now we're going to trade, you know, Landiscaug and Duchyne and guys at the

they tore it down to draft. And then New Jersey, you know, I remember Lou Lamarillo sounded a lot like Ken Holland a few years ago, where he talked a lot about culture and the devil's way and all that stuff. And, you know, now they've stripped that away. And, you know, I don't, I think Ray Sherro was doing the right thing ultimately there. And I think they've done some nice things, but I don't see the devil's being good for a while. I mean, do you? No, they still have at least like five or six moves to make before they can consider being good,

which is, it's a way. It's a way. I mean, at least, you know, they got that, we'd agree calling Taylor Hall at least a building block or at least one of the first building blocks, right? So it's like getting that type of player is someone that they didn't even really have in their system to begin with. So I think that was a huge first step. But, I mean, as we're seeing this year, it's going to take a lot more to get them to the next level. So I think if you gave truth to them to the Red Wings, I think they hope keep bringing in young players, keep draft, you know, they've accumulated a lot of draft picks. I think their biggest sin is some bad contracts that I don't mind the legacy contracts that came from the Stanley Cup years.

I don't mind the Zetterberg contracts and the Cronwall deals. Teams are going to have to deal with that. Like, they were good. And Chicago's day is coming that they're going to have to deal with that. The Red Wings' biggest sin was the, you know, Adulcator contract. Maybe the DeKaiser, you could argue, although I think slotted in the right place, Danny Keis is a good defenseman. He just hasn't been slotted in the right place. Yeah.

You know, a few of those contracts that were signed, I would say, over the last couple years when those cup days were gone. Because now, if you are tearing it down, you're going to have to get out of those contracts. And those were avoidable to begin with. That, to me, is, you know, that's going to be the challenge for Detroit. Well, something I've been really fascinated with lately is just the concept of roster construction and how you're allocating your resources. And I remember, I don't know if it was before the season or right at the start of the year, but you wrote about how the Blackhawks were very unique and how they were, you know, they had all these top end guys that were making such a large percentage of their cap,

and then they just were fine up kind of filling in the gaps with whether it was a college free agents or guys from the HL that they drafted a few years ago. And I look at this Red Wings roster, and it's like a lot of guys in that like two and a half to five million dollar range. It's just, it's interesting just comparing those two things. Like obviously once you get guys like Patrick Kane and Jonathan Taves, it's easy to just make the decision.

Yeah, let's pay those guys as much money as we possibly get and figure out the rest. But it's just the disparity between those two is. is kind of fascinating to me. Yeah, it's fascinating, and I think it's a lesson to be learned. I mean, I think Stan Bowman has provided every other other GM of blueprint in how to keep the window open longer in a cap era. And that's cut loose all of those borderline guys that you love and that are part of the fabric and, you know, Andrew Shaw's and all those guys that

helped you win Stan the Cup. So it's not easy. And, you know, loyalty is to be applauded on some level, but I think, you know, Ken Holland is a super loyal guy, and I think on some level it's probably hurt him. I think Dean Lombardi's the same way, like emotional, loyal guy. Stan Bowman has, you know, he's been surgical about it. And it's like if you're not, these five guys, you know, we love you, thank you, and you're out.

And I think we're looking at, I think Steve Eisenman probably is headed down that same path with Tampa. And it's like, okay, he's identified their core. And boy, you know, we appreciate it, Brian Boyle, all you did. but you're out and we're not going to pay a premium to keep a third or fourth liner around. And I think in the past, teams would have probably kept a guy like growing up boil and extended them. But you just, I think you're learning those guys have to be replaced by cheaper numbers. And the calf space has to be reserved for the core and you have to rotate the rest out. And that's the thing I think Red Wings fans are frustrated with back to the original point,

is that it is just a lot of contours. These aren't core guys like Kane of Tate's. These are, you know, Nyquists and Helms. And, you know, Glenn Denning has a deal that goes through 2021. Who I like, everyone likes, you know, he can play on my team any day, but I don't know if you need two million committed there. Yeah, for like four or five years, it seems a bit excessive. Okay, let's talk a bit about your most recent column where you just roasted the entire city of Winnipeg,

I feel like. Sounds like Gary Lalit, who I want to have to do later today. All right, just, I guess, without necessarily giving away everything, because I do want people to go get ESPN Insider and read it. Tell the listeners a bit about sort of the angle you took in writing this art column. Well, it's fun. I've been doing it now. This is the third run at it.

And, you know, I reach out to a number of agents, ask them to send a ballot in. It's the top three most frequently listed no-trade cities amongst the clients. and, you know, some guys, it's just an estimate, and other guys get their contracts out, and they'll send me here, you know, here's player A, B, C, and D. And what I end up doing is kind of gathering those, adding them up, giving points for our first place vote

down to a third place, and spitting out the results. And we have a new number one this year. It's exciting in the no trade poll with the Winnipeg Jets. Now we're placing the Evanton Oil. And what's interesting now is, now that there's a little bit of history with this, is to see the kind of the teams moving up and down and falling off the list.

Like, for example, the Toronto Maple Leafs for a team a couple years ago, I would say every agent, if they didn't list them in their top three, at least mentioned as a place that players just didn't want to go, didn't want to deal with the media, didn't have a lot of faith in the direction of the team. And now, I bet you, you know, now someone made a comparison. Once they get going, they could be like the New York Yankees, and that's the destination. And I think that's where we're headed. And the other interesting one was Edmonton.

Edmonton is the number one now. It was number one probably firmly the first two years of places, you know, players least wanted to go. And I had a number of agency this year. That guys are taking them off the list and there's certainly more of a willingness to go to Edmonton because of Connor McDavid in the new arena. And as one guy said, winning solves everything.

You start winning, guys will overlook a lot about a market or, you know, a team and, you know, if they have a shot to win. If you can combine winning in a good lifestyle, then you're the Chicago Blackhawks. And that's why everybody wants to go there. And a player's coach. And I mean, they're the ideal.

And you can get Brian Campbell for nothing for one year if you're Stan Bowman. And that becomes a huge competitive edge for those teams. Yeah. I mean, there's only so much Winnipeg could realistically do in terms of improving, like, the other superficial factors. But I wonder, like, do you think that down the road, the idea of playing with guys, line A and Wheeler and Shifley would help make them a more appealing destination?

Or is it just going to be purely like they need to start making the playoffs and actually winning games before that change is kind of like it did with Oilers, as you just mentioned? Well, yeah, well, we started. So what this year is is a reflection of list that were already turned in. So I think there was, you know, I think we'll see it even more next year with Edmonton with them now making the playoffs. So I think there's like it takes a little bit for it to happen.

But yeah, I think absolutely. Like if Linae it becomes Ovetkin and Shifley is, you know, I love Mark Sheffley. He's one of my favorite players to watch, and I think he's really good. And Blake Wheeler's, Blake Wheeler, then, you know, that becomes a playoff team. If teams think I can win a Stanley Cup of Winnipeg, they're going to go to Winnipeg, and they're going to overlook, you know, some of the negatives. And, you know, the one thing I was careful to do this year that I probably should have done

previous years. Like, you know, I kind of stuck kind of the hockey side and really, here's why players don't want to go. And the first year I did that I kind of let people take shots at the city and the weather. I think it was, you know, on some level if you're a fan there, you know, you don't want to rip on someone's hometown. So, but the reality is, I mean, that's what I hear people are like, oh, Winnipeg is cold and miserable and it's hard to get to. And all of those things factor into this. But if you win, I think it changes everything.

Yeah. I mean, an interesting angle sort of spinning this around is, like I've been thinking a lot about T.J. OSHA as one of the top free agents this year in and the free agent class. And, you know, he's going to really cash in. but just the other angle to it is, I mean, if you're like a kind of fringe free agent or a middle six guy who's looking for a new contract, like you'd really be enticed by maybe taking a bit less money to go play with the capitals and potentially kind of fill in that spot next to Ovechkin and Baxter. Like it's where we've seen how playing with these great players can all of a sudden make you look pretty damn good. I mean, Patrick Maroon right now is, it's a shame he's not a free agent this summer, but if he even has a decent year next season, like he's going to cash in quite. a bit just thanks to playing with McDavid for so much. For sure.

And I think T.J. Oshy's an interesting person because he's not that, when we go back to, you know, who do you sign and who don't you sign to keep your Stanley Cup window open, he's not an easy one, right? Is he a core guy? Is he, I mean, he's not a third or fourth liner, so we can't rule that out. I think he's a tough decision. I mean, we're talking about a guy that's just under a point per game this year for the capitals. but he's also 30

like what are you doing with T.J. O'Shee if you're Ryan O'Connor. Let's say you win a Stanley Cup and he's great and everything's wonderful. So they've done everything you've asked with him. You shake his hand, thank him for his service and let him leave

I think unless he's willing to unless he really just loves playing with Ovegen of Backstrom, which I wouldn't blame him and he decides to take less money than you can entertain it. But I mean, just what I think he's like you saw some of the contracts that were handed out last summer. I have no doubt in my mind that at least one team will offer

T.J. O'Shee six years, six million or something like that. Like it's... Did you get seven years? Yeah, like seven forty-two or something? So T.J.O.O. She will get seven. Yeah. We'll get seven. If you're the capitals, you cannot give T.J.O.S.O.S.E.O.S. over seven seasons like that is just, that's a, that's a non-starter. So he would have to take quite a big of a discount to stay. Yeah. And to your point that

if you win the Stanley Cup and you're the Washington Capitals, now you can fill that spot with a guy on a two your deal that's looking to, you know, for a break, like, players will want to go there. And you broke the, you know, the cup curse. And so I think you should take advantage of that as a GM and as much as you can and capitalize on it rather than pay big to keep your own guys. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, as you mentioned with Stan Bowman, it's, uh, sometimes you got to know when to pull

the pug and be a cruel, cold calculated businessman. Um, well, I mean, just look at the guys. He's sent the other way. I mean, Andrew Ladd, Dustin Buffen, Christopher Steig, Brandon Saud, Andrew Schott, these are guys that are probably in the same kind of vein as T.J. O'Shee, like, really good players,

great players, like with Buffan's case. But, you know, not guys that you've identified as your core. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, so we've got a couple days left here in the regular season. Is there anything you're keeping your eye on here? Are you already kind of shifting your sights to

playoff previews and stuff like that? Yeah, I mean, the only thing you know, the closing of Joe Lewis Arena is going to take a lot of my time this weekend. You know, we've got, we're doing multiple sports center hits from the arena. It's, you know, it's a big deal. So that'll be the last kind of regular season hurdle. But I'm already, you know, working on some playoff previews, getting ready to doing a Sydney Crosby piece because I'm headed down to that series to do Penguins Blue Jackets.

And I think that's going to be a fun. I'm looking forward to it. How do you, we should talk a little bit about the, I haven't had a chance on the show to talk about the Latang injury. Like that really, it was a monkey wrench into that series. Do you think that obviously the penguins are more well suited to compensate and fill in the gaps this year

than they may have been last season with some of the moves they made and the guys they brought in? But I mean, LaTang was playing like 29 minutes a night during last year's cup run and he was just an absolute workhorse for them. And I just don't see how they're going to fill those minutes without taking a massive step back. Yeah, I don't

think they, like I don't want to overstate it and I'm sure this can come back to Honley. I don't think they can win us down the cup without Chris Teng. He was so good for them last year in the playoffs. And, you know, I was asked this, like, I think it was in the mail-by a couple weeks ago, and I said, I said, you know, there was one

moment that captured how good Crystal Tang was, more than any other moment in covering them in the playoffs last year. And it was in the game they won us down the cup. There's, I think it was Logan Cochere's scores for the sharks. And it's this point now where if you're the penguins, you just lost an opportunity to clinch at home, in Pittsburgh the game before.

San Jose's going crazy. Like it was so loud there. And Chris LaTang hops over the bench. And him and Sidney Crosby, I think it was a shift after a Monkyn shift, had the puck for like a minute and a half. And it was the most dominant I've ever seen two guys play together, just willing their way.

And Penguins ended up scoring a goal and, of course, winning the Stanley Cup. And I don't know if Chris LaTang got enough credit for the Penguins run last year, but they don't win it without him. He's such a competitor. And, you know, I look at their defense. and, you know,

yeah, they have more depth, but they don't have anything close to Crystal Tang. And I don't remember the last time the team won a Stanley Cup without that dominant top pair, number one defenseman. Yeah, yeah, it's going to be tough, man. It's going to be really tough. All right, Craig, where can people check out your work?

Yeah, so definitely check out the no trade poll that's on ESPN Insider for subscribers. That's at ESPN.com. Give a follow at Craig Custin. on Twitter, and I especially would like people on Facebook. If you're on Facebook, I think

that's such a hard, I don't know if you're doing that, Demetri, but that's a hard kind of world to crack, because it's different to Twitter. But I'm on there, and if you can give that, a follow too, just search my name. That would be awesome. I really try to... Facebook? Facebook's still a thing? It is. It's an important

thing. The way that was explained to me, someone said, you know, Twitter is you're shouting out the news. Like, Facebook is, like, you're in someone's living room. It's a little bit more. And then email is like, you're in the bedroom. Like that would be the next step up.

Yeah, it's pretty hot. So like, yeah, people like, people, if you can connect on Facebook, I still think there's a lot of value there just in terms of just connecting with readers. And I find it a little more intimate. Hey, I mean, I'm following Craig Custons on Facebook. So I think that everyone else listening to the show should as well. How did you know that I was on CNN World? Exactly.

I'm sure you weren't in London. watching that. You jumped into my living room, and that's how I got. All right, Craig. Enjoy these last few days of the regular season and the start of the playoffs, and let's get you back on sometime down the road. Awesome. Thanks for having me.

Chat Tudeman. The Hockey P.D.O.cast with Dmitri Filippovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud.com slash hockeypedocast.