The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 161: Checking in on Round One

Episode Date: April 20, 2017

Tyler Dellow joins the show to help dissect everything we've seen from the opening round of the playoffs thus far. The topics covered include: 4:30 Capitals vs. Leafs 17:45 Wild vs. Blues 26:20 Flames vs. Ducks 40:00 Senators vs. Bruins 48:50 Blackhawks vs. Predators 54:45 Rangers vs. Canadiens 58:20 Penguins vs. Blue Jackets Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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And joining me as the only person to ever appear on the show, despite somehow still not following me on Twitter. It's Tyler Delo. Tyler, what's going on, man? No, my see, Vaj. How are you doing, bud? I'm doing good. It's a busy time of year. We got the playoffs going on.

We got some big news out of Buffalo today. Do you want to touch quickly on the stuff that's going on with the Sabres? Do you have any thoughts? We've only had, what, like half an hour or so to digest the news, but Tim Murray and Dan Balasman got fired. What was your first takeaway when you saw that news hit the, hit the Twitter sphere. I guess my first takeaway was this.

It's doing rebuilds and blowing out your defense is a tricky thing to do. And I think the problem with it is that you can get the forwards in fairly quickly to, you know, put the team in a position to score some goals. But I think it can be hard to get the defense built back up. And, you know, like people in Buffalo, I think you probably get sick of hearing about the Leafs. But you look at what the Leafs did. and you know jake gardner morgan riley are eating huge minutes right now and the leaps didn't sort of you know toss them out the door when they rebuilt whereas buffalo you know really stripped it down

like what were they in 1415 and they were like a 37% coursey team or something yeah yeah yeah it was uh it was right down there and the funny thing is is a lot of guys a lot of the defensemen from that team are are still are still there like ristlein played a bunch that year um what's his name gorgeous Georges. Gorgeous, Georgia's. So they've got a lot of those guys still on the team. And, you know, like, to me, like, I think Buffalo's got a pretty good team. And, you know, in all fairness to Tim Murray, I like a lot of what he did.

And, like, I saw some people kind of, you know, sniffing about Robin Lanner. Robin Lennar put up a 9-20 this year in 59 games. Like, that's, that's perfectly acceptable for a starting goalie. but you know the issue to me is like the penalty killing was a disaster and you know they weren't a particularly good possession team and that's that's hard to overcome so so yeah like that really is it to me is you know Tim Murray was there what four years three years and you know it's hard for me to see how that group of defensemen is going to support the team taking the next step back to the playoffs and then it's also hard to see yeah or it's not hard to see you

but in the bigger picture, I think that's where Rebuilds can get in trouble is when you get the forwards in place or you get the goaltending in place, but you don't have the defensemen who can kind of support the team. Yeah, and listen, I thought the Sabres were a pretty competitive team

all things considered this year. As you mentioned, Lennar was really, really good for pretty much the entirety of the season, and their forwards were perfectly fine. It's that defense. I mean, there's a lot of Dmitri Kulikov and Josh George is involved. And I know that certain people are going to use this

as a chance to kind of rag on the idea of bottoming out and tanking as a way to build up your team. But I think that I still believe that was the right move and they did the right thing. It's just that ultimately, especially this past year, they didn't really show an ability to work on the margins and bring in kind of quality players in those sort of bottom six, you know, depth defensemen roles that could actually help boost the team a little bit. Instead, they were just giving minutes to guys that were dragging everything down. And that's ultimately what I think did them in this year. Yeah, yeah. Well, and like I say, like when you compare their rebuild with Toronto,

like to me, that's the big difference in the Leafs turnaround is, you know, when the Leafs bottomed out, like they were a 50% course of team last year or something. It might have been a little higher. And, you know, they bottomed out not because they couldn't get a hold of the puck or move the puck, but because they couldn't score and they couldn't stop the puck. And so when you talk about like, how do we want a tank, what's the way to tank? you know the way Toronto did it seems to me to be far preferable to the way that you know we saw we saw Buffalo do it in 1415 just in terms of it's it's easier to get out of the muck the way Toronto went about it than it is the way the Sabres went about it yeah for sure all right let's uh that's enough

on the Sabres for now let's get into the playoffs um I haven't done a show since they started mostly because I mean A I don't really want to be overly reactionary and have all these strong conclusions after just a game or two and and and on Honestly, with the quick turnarounds these series are having, there's so little time to digest and analyze stuff before the next game is played that it kind of just the shelf life for these podcasts isn't very great. But a lot of people have been clamoring for it. So I'm excited to get into this with you. Let's go series by series. And let's, since we're recording this on a Thursday morning, I thought that, you know, talking about the games that happened last night while they're fresh in our minds would be a good start. And it seems like the capitals and Leafs is the natural starting point here, considering it's been easily the most captivating series out of any of the bunch. people outside Toronto are going to hate that but yeah it's been a good one yeah it's okay so one of my favorite things about the postseason is you know you get rid of some of the clutter and the filler and the teams and players that don't matter and you really have a chance to key in on specific matchups and exes and o's and when you have teams playing four to seven straight times there's there's all this stuff that comes up and i think that you know for hockey nerds like you and i the chess match with the adjustments from one game to the next are the absolute best and i thought uh are our good mutual friend, Jimmy James Myrtle, did a great job of capturing this in his game recap yesterday, where he kind of keyed in the fact that, you know, after the Capitals really got a hand it to them in game three, especially by the combination of Matthews and Nylander, Trots went back to the drawing board

and realized that he needed to change how he was defending them. And he basically shadowed them with his best defenseman and Matt Niskin. And that made all the difference in the world. I mean, they went up from that matchup happening like 40% of the time through the first three games, to two-thirds of the time in game four. I guess the question is, why did it take so long for the Capitals to do that, especially considering that they had last change in the first two games of the series? I don't know. I think Trots has run his bench a certain way this year. Like, I know early in the season, they were using Niskin into more of a match-up role,

and that kind of petered out as the year went along, and he went about it a different way. But, you know, to me, I think it's sort of part of a bigger thing about defense when it's so weird. Like, some guys kind of get pigeonhole. as, you know, oh, he's an offensive defenseman so you don't play him against the other team's best players. And, you know, that's not necessarily, you know, the way to go about it. And I think Niskin and certainly had that. Like, he's someone who I think has been very interesting for a long time

and underrated for a long time. And if you go back, he's done really well going back through Pittsburgh. I think even in Dallas he kind of got PEO'd there for a while. But, you know, I don't know that it's that unusual. that it, you know, took the caps a while to try that out. But, you know, it's not surprising to me that they're getting more success with Niskinet against that line than with anyone else. What is it about a guy like Niskinin?

Because he's one of these players where, you know, we always talk about, like, there aren't, there aren't necessarily, you can't just look at the huge point totals or, you know, counting stats or block shots or hits or anything like that to really capture his value. It's sort of, he just seems to be one of these guys. with great mobility and hockey sense. And it seems like whenever he gets the puck, he doesn't necessarily do something overly flashy with it, but it's always the right play.

Like, how do we, that does seem like it's kind of the one gap we need to cover here with our analysis in terms of really finding a proper way to evaluate the contributions of guys like him. Yeah, I don't, it's interesting. Like, you know, I guess for one on the points with him, he'd have more points if he was on that first power play unit. Right, right.

So, you know, like to the extent that people get, hung up on points for defensemen. You know, it's very much a product of opportunity. And it's funny because this year, like, their power play, their first unit, when Carlson was on it, it stunk. And they got Niskenen in there, and it was just fine. And then obviously Shattonkirk's a bit of an ace.

So he's taken over that role since he's come along. And it makes sense, like when they brought in Shattonkirk, like I can see the argument for displacing Niskenen from that unit once you've got a Shattenkirk, just because that frees you up, with Niskinin at five on five. And I think he's legitimately great there. But to me it goes back to how do you evaluate defensemen?

And, you know, like, I'm a big believer in, you know, like, figuring out, like, how does this guy impact on possession once you adjust for the context that he faces? And, you know, Niskenin, that's something that he's done really well. And I worry less about the points and more about that. And, you know, like, I guess it kind of keeps with what we're talking about Buffalo, right? like Buffalo doesn't have a lot of defensemen who can really positively impact on possession. And it's funny too. Like, it's amazing to me. Like, imagine if Niskenen was a free agent this year.

Like, what would he get? You have to think he would get a pile of money. And the crazy thing is that, like, when he was a free agent two years ago, was it two or three years ago they went to? I think three years ago. Years ago. When he was a free agent three years ago, he wasn't, you know, like, I know, everyone thought he was good. He would get five and a quarter. but, you know, I don't think he was properly appreciated then.

Well, do you think we're actually at that point where I feel like even if he hit the open market right now, like he'd get maybe a bit more money than that, but he'd still probably be a good value for the team that signed him. Like I think that players with his statistical resume or a particular game are still a little bit undervalued by the majority of the league. Well, that's almost a separate question, right? because I think that there's like a class of players who are like I don't think that the money distribution the NHL necessarily makes sense right and um you know like I think a guy like niskin and probably impacts the game like you know he's at five and a quarter he probably impacts the game a lot more than a lot of defensemen who are at three million dollars yeah so you

know like whatever he got if he was a free agent I suspect he'd be good value well I mean the other adjustment the capitals have made in the series and it's tough to know for sure or whether it was their hand was forced doing it just because of injury or whether it was a realization that this particular matchup required some more speed. But going from Carl Olsner to Nate Schmidt, in my opinion, was also a pretty big step up for them. And I know for a lot of people that might seem like a weird thing to say because Nate Schmidt is another one of those guys where if you look at just his superficial stats, you're not really blown away by them and he doesn't have a pedigree or anything. It hasn't been around for a long time. So a lot of people aren't familiar with his game,

whereas Carl Alsner was a former top pick and he's been around forever and he's one of these gritty, durable guys that always plays and block shots and kills penalties. But I just think it's like it's tough at this point, even if you adjust for how they're used and what they're asked to do to make the argument that Alzner is a superior player to Schmidt at this point, which is funny to me because, you know, Schmidt very well could get exposed in this year's in this summer's expansion draft, whereas Alzner's probably going to get like five plus years and five plus million from some poor, poor team. team this year. So it's it's it's amazing just how how opinion on these two guys and in sort of the public sphere differs and what they're actually capable of contributing to their teams. Well, it's you know, it's it's the same thing. Now, Alzner, I think was their matchup guy all year. Yeah. And and I think that sometimes analytically inclined people sort of don't take that into account enough when looking at a guy's numbers. But, you know, it's it's you know, I agree with your broader point, you know, it seems like a class of guys kind of get the reputation of being,

you know, good defensive defenseman. And regardless of what happens or what they do on the ice from that point forward, there's sort of in a great spot to continue getting paid. From the Leafs perspective here, you know, there's still in a pretty good spot here. I think if you told them they'd be 2-2 at this point in the series, they would take that every day of the week. Heading back to Washington, like what? what sort of adjustments do they need to make to get back control of this series? Like, is it just like, I guess looking at this series in a big picture, do you think that they've actually been holding serve here with the capitals

in terms of just keeping up with them during the course of play? Or do you think that there's something that they need to alter to take that next step? I don't know. Last night was obviously a bit of a bit of a barn. fight in a bad way for the Leafs. But in general, like, I think they've been right there. Like, they haven't been, they haven't been, like, I don't think they've been getting badly outplayed or anything in this series.

And it's kind of, you know, it's, it's kind of interesting. Like, if you looked at Washington, the one thing about Washington this year, I think they had, like, 103-something PDO. Like, it was just crazy. And, you know, and you look at teams like that, and you're always like, yeah, you know, you're a little vulnerable to the percentages running against you. And, you know, so I think it's a case of maybe the gap. And the other thing is, like, with the Leafs, right, like, with a team like Washington,

veteran team, same coach. Like, it wasn't like Trots was new this year. He's been there a couple years. You know, what they were in November is pretty much, you know, what they are now, generally speaking. But with Toronto, like, you know, Toronto had, what, eight rookies or something this year. And I think it's, you know, new goalie. like there's been a lot of change there

and I think it's you know with a team like the Leaves you know what they were in November isn't necessarily what they are now so you know like I think what you're getting at here is you know like the series is 2-2 you know are the Leifes just sort of hanging in or are they real and I kind of

think they're real like you know they're obviously not a team without flaws like they've got issues on defense or not big issues but they could certainly use another defenseman or two but, you know, it's not to me a series where it's 2-2 and the Leaps have kind of landed a couple of Hail Marys to get to that position. So, you know, I think Toronto, you know, keep plugging and see what happens.

Take it one shift at a time? Yeah, one shift at a time, 110%. You know, get pucks deep. No, it's the thing with all of these matchups, it's so fascinating to me, is like just the stylistic battle that goes on between the two teams and sort of this internal struggle that you go through as a coach or as a team as a collective in terms of like do you just keep playing the way you play it all season and what got you to this point and made you successful or do you try to make adjustments on the fly and if you do like how into like how

fundamental those changes really are and how consequential and for the capitals like I imagine that pretty much any other team in these playoffs if they went up against them they'd be well suited to open the game up and play more sort of free-flowing fast-paced hockey. But I think like the Leafs are just uniquely situated to either keep pace with them or actually be kind of favored in that. So it's interesting. Like I think in game four we saw the Capitals definitely play a bit of a more structured game, especially throughout the neutral zone. And I wonder if we see more of that moving forward in the series because while they definitely played a structured game throughout the regular season as well,

and there's a lot of things that made them successful. like just sort of playing a running gun style it may not suit them well in these games five, six and seven if we need one. Yeah, well, I definitely agree that. Like from Washington's perspective, I think they're better off with sort of a very slow, structured game that kind of grinds along as opposed to letting some of Toronto's guys wheel. But it's funny.

There was so much talk before this series about this being a bad matchup for Toronto. But it's kind of a lousy matchup for the caps too Just because like you say like in most series You know the caps are going to be If it turns into a bit of a bit of a fire wagon hockey type thing The caps are going to be you know Better at that than the other team And and just in this series like

You know they they really can't trade you know Or they the Leafs can trade if they want to trade chances The Leaves can get up there with them So I think it's a you know it's a bit of an awkward matchup for the capitals. And, yeah, I'm really interested to see how it plays out. You have to be ever Washington, given that they're up three, two, or given that the series is tied two, and they've got the two of the Latinx three home games.

But, you know, Toronto is right there with them. Yeah, no, definitely are. I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out. Let's shift gears here and talk a little bit about the wild and blues matchup. listen Minnesota's controlled like north of 60% of the shot attempts the shots on goal the scoring chances they expected goals like pretty much every category they've dominated in but Jake Allen's stopped 140 of 145 shots he's faced and I think this is like a prime example of why whenever we do previews for these matchups or or talk about different playoff series like you have to lay out why you think a certain team is better and why you think they'll win and then you kind of at the end add the caveat well but also So if the other team's goalie has an out-of-body experience, I could see them winning as well. And that's pretty much, I guess, where we're at with this series right now.

Yeah, no, I agree with that. And it's, I don't know, like, it's going to stink for Minnesota if they lose this series. And I'm not convinced that they will lose this series. Like, it's, I wrote about this a few years ago. But, like, 3-0 leads aren't what they once were. And it's so funny, right, because you kind of have it programmed into you from, and you're, like, 15 or something. but older people kind of have it programmed into them

that like a 3-0 lead is just game over. And so like for me, growing up in the 80s and, you know, early 90s, there were massive differences between teams. And so if a team was up 3-0, they were probably a much, much better team than the other team. And, you know, and in that case, like being up 3-0, it wasn't just that you were down three games. It was also that you sucked compared to the other team.

and I think we've seen what we've seen two comebacks from 3-0 in the last 7 or 8 years right like Boston was it Philly from Boston and then the Kings came back on San Jose and if you look what you find is is that like

you know 25 years ago when a team was up 3-0 the team that was up 3-0 tended to have a way better goal difference than the team that was down 3-0 and that's not necessarily the case anymore like it's the game that you know the league has become so much more balanced.

So, you know, like when you see a 3-0 lead now, like there's almost, and I'm sure this will come up when we talk about Calgary, but when you see a 3-0 lead now, there's almost certainly a lot more kind of luck and balances and whatnot involved in it. And so, you know, like, you're right. Like if a goalie plays lights out, he can, he can, you know, he can turn that series. And, you know, at the same time, you can't expect Jake Allen to do that going forward. Minnesota's been pretty good this year. So it wouldn't shock, well, it would surprise me.

But, you know, I don't think it would be a stunner if Minnesota somehow found a way out of it. So I was talking about this with someone yesterday. What would be, what would your thoughts be on playing these series and more of a European soccer-style aggregate score rather than wins and losses? I don't know, like a seven-game series based on aggregate scores. Yeah, or you can make a five, I guess. I don't know I like I like wins and losses

I guess the issue I have with that is that you know I don't know look at that San Jose Ebbington series so you know do you want that to you know do you want that series to be effectively over because the others had a bad game like I look I like soccer I like total goals

but you know like I think the good thing with hockey in the playoffs is if you have a bad night you know it's it's a bad night It's not, well, there goes the series. Right. But I also think that some of these games, like, you know, maybe the games are closer in the playoffs, but you definitely get the feel like after a certain point that, I don't know,

the game just stops being what it was, what it was early on if it gets out of hand. Like, I think incentivizing teams to be playing their absolute best for the full 60 minutes or at least trying to would be a step in the right direction. I don't know. It's obviously never going to happen. I just thought it was an interesting thought exercise. Yeah, I don't know. I don't mind the odd blowout and that things get stupid. It's part of the unique sauce of the playoffs that we all enjoy so much. I guess so. I don't know. It just seems stupid to me. As you mentioned, like the wild very well could come back in the series, but they're still fighting a pretty uphill battle here down 3-1. And on aggregate, they'd only be down one right now. And I'd feel pretty good about them overcoming this deficit over the next three games. But I don't know. You're right. There's definitely examples like that, like that Euler's game where now they'd be just totally screwed just because they, they were down seven in that one. So I don't know. From St. Louis's perspective, I did think it was interesting. After game one, Mike Yo had some comments in the press about how he was sort of boasting about how the blues had figured out shot quality essentially and how they were willing to give up all these, all these high volume shots to the wild, but keeping them all today outside and not letting them in the middle of the, in the middle of offensive zone. And I guess the question is, why do coaches still do this in 2017 when we can so easily verify whether that's true or whether it's completely fabricated?

Is it just purely like self-preservation from their perspective? It's funny. I think people sometimes put way too much stock into what coaches or general managers say to the media. Because the problem is if you're a coach, you have to go out there and feed the machine after the game, right? or you have to go out there and feed the beast. And, you know, so I don't know, you ever hear the old saying about, so I guess you have some American listeners. So in Canada, we have a parliamentary system of government,

and the prime minister and his cabinet have to answer questions, you know, every day or every other day, whatever it is. And there's an old saying that it's called question period or question time, not answer time. And, you know, that to me is really. something that should be a guiding principle for coaches doing that. So if you're a Mike Yo going out there after you've just been blasted, he's not worried about people like you, right?

Like, you know, there's some people like you who pay pretty close attention to where the shots are coming from, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's an opportunity for him to go out there and kind of influence, you know, what the media are talking about his team, which will impact on what the fans are talking about for his team. And so, you know, like I think it's a case of, you know, he doesn't want to go out there and say, holy cow, do we get torn apart and God, how did we win that one? And, you know, so instead he goes out and sort of sends a message that, yo, yeah, shot quality,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, you know, it's fine for people to say, look, that's nonsense. But, you know, the fact of the matter is is that, you know, that sort of a line will still sell right now. So if you're at him, why wouldn't you do that to kind of deflect some attention from the fact that your team got badly o'played. It's, it's, it's question period. It's not answered period. Yes, I guess that is true. I don't know. Do you have any other takeaways in the series or can we move on to another one? Like it's, it's central time zone, you know, like it's the central time zone is just invariably. I feel like I never, I never see much of the series there in the first round

because, you know, you got the early games on and then and then, you know, so they end and then you're like, okay, well, I'm looking for another game. And it's like, oh, this game's got 10 minutes left, or I can get right into a, you know, Calgary game or whatever's happening. Oh, you know, in the real West. Yeah, no, it's in that definitely awkward middle spot. I just, man, I'm like emotional. Like a little child.

Yeah. I'm emotionally bracing myself for all the hot takes if, uh, if the wild really do wind up losing this series about how, how Bruce Bouchroger's can't win in the postseason. Yeah. I, look, I wouldn't say I feel bad for him because the guys had tremendous success as a coach. But that's a narrative I really don't buy. Like I've had this conversation with somebody in media.

And I've sort of, you know, he's like, always loses game seven. Always loses game seven. And I like went back and looked and, man, he's had some tough beats in game seven. Like, you know, I don't know. Yeah. You know, like, and I, it would be a great, like, if we had 30 for 30 in Canada. Like, I'd love to see like a 30 for 30 about that 09, 10, 10. team that ran into the

Canadians and just like looking at where they had shots from and where they weren't scoring from because my recollection was that you know they played the Canadians off the ice but just Halak was you know Alanesque and you know and they ended up losing the series

and it's it's there's such a there's such a you know obviously rightly so but there's such a focus on results in the playoffs which is reasonable but but it drives the narrative about what happened? And like if you lose, you lost because you're a loser.

It's, you know, it's never like, wow, this guy has just had some, some horrific luck in terms of running into hot goalies or whatever. Yeah, there's got to be some sort of an internal fatal flaw that's doing them in when it matters most. All right. Let's talk quickly about the flames and the ducks. I think that, you know, you tweeted about how this is arguably the most disappointing result.

We'll see how the capital series winds up shaking out. But it's, I think you and I, were both, and a lot of people, uh, were, were pretty high on the flames, uh, towards the end of the season and then heading into the playoffs and even, even in previewing the series. And, I don't know, just like it goes to show you how big of a sort of slippery slope it can be in the playoffs when that, when the margin for error is so small, because I really thought that the flames were the better team in this series and especially in the first three games, but they just couldn't seem to get out of their own way and, and they couldn't get enough saves. And, and ultimately, that's, uh,

that's, uh, that's, uh, that's, um, like, I really think, Calgary, the takeaway should, you know, like, and the flames are going to be rightfully, I think, aggrieved about some of the stuff that went on in the series. But, like, it's, I don't know, like, you know, this is true in life, true in true in sports, you know, you can't, you can't focus on the stuff you can't control. And Calgary, you know, you can't control if the rep makes a bad, a bad call or a call you don't like, you know, you can control. And like it's funny, like there was some complaining about that Dougie Hamilton penalty, I guess, in game two. Well, you know, maybe it was a soft call, but when I, when I looked a little while ago,

Dougie Hamilton took a lot of obstruction penalties this year. So like, like whether that was a soft call or not, there's something going on with his game there. And if you're Calgary, you know, you can wind that it was a soft call where you can try and figure out, okay, well, what's going on with his game? Or how can we get, how can we get him out of the position where he's at the mercy of the referees? And I really like Dougie. I think he's a great player. But, you know, that's a flaw in his game.

And, you know, like the flames, like, it just took so many mindless penalties, particularly in Anaheim. Like, just, you know, in soccer they talk about having, they call it tactical noose. The British love is all, you know, news, tactical news. And it's like, it's like Calgary just seemed to have like no sense of the occasion and no sense of kind of gamesmanship in that series. Like it's like, oh, we're down a goal with five minutes left and Giordano gets hit. I'm going to break my stick cross-checking somebody.

And it's like, dude, not the time. Like, especially not in a playoff series where, you know, if you feel the need to bust a stick over somebody, there will be less critical moments in which you can do it. And, you know, like the line change. Like, it's just like, you know, like I agree with you. I thought Calgary played pretty well. But, you know, that Anaheim team, you know, I've never been a huge fan of them. but the one thing I will say, like, they have a lot of gamesmanship on that team. Like, guys who know, you know, when's the time, when's not.

And, you know, ultimately, I really think that's what Calgary, well, that and the goaltending. But, you know, like, Calgary kind of didn't have nearly as kind of the sense of the moment of the Ducks did. Yeah. Yeah, with the Ducks, it's funny because they've really grown on me as the years gone along. Like, obviously it was very easy with some of the moves they made this summer and especially the coaching change to be down on them and wonder whether they'd be able to get back to the levels they were at the past few years. But they've been playing better as the years gone along. And I think that especially like the Patrick Eves trade, for example, really open them up to move Corey Perry down

to that third line with Vermet and whether it's Andre Kasha or Nick Richie. And that line absolutely just destroyed the flames in this series. And all of a sudden, they're looking like a pretty deep team without that many holes. Like they, I think they still can be exploited. And once they run into whether it's, you know, especially if they play the sharks in the second round, I think they're going to be in rough shape there. But like, how have they managed to, to exceed our expectations? Or, I don't want to speak for you. Maybe you had a high expectations for them even with Randy Carlisle being their coach heading into the season. Yeah, like, I, you know, I think there's, I don't know, for me, I think the big thing with them

has been, one, they have a lot of really good defense prospects, like, or young, don't call the prospects, like, good young defensemen. Like, you know, I think something that's impressive with them is, like, they've lost guys to injury, and they have guys from San Diego. They can just, just call up and slide right in there. And that's been a real, a real, you know, advantage for them. Like, particularly, like, when you contrast their defense with a team like Calgary's, right? like where the flames have sort of three guys you trust and then it's kind of like woo and and i

don't know that that's the case with anaheim at all so i think that's been a big thing um i really think like having three lines that can play in this is the point you made like it just makes you so much tougher to deal with from an opposition perspective because it means somebody you know have decent getting to run at the uh the third line or sorry the third third third defense pairing like it just opens up so much. And so when I look at Anaheim, you know, and like, you're right, like they, they outdid my expectations too this year. You know, I think really it's just they've got a reasonably deep group of forwards. And they've got a, they've got a very, very deep defense.

Like, you know, one thing Anaheim does incredibly well or has done incredibly well is draft. And, and, you know, they just seem to have a conveyor line of defensemen who, you know, who they can slot into that team. And it's obviously, it's worked pretty well for them in this series because had they not had Theodore and Montour, things would have looked a little grimmer for them. Yeah, no, that's for sure. You know, I think before yesterday's game,

Ryan Kessler, it was announced, got nominated for the Selke, and I know that you were heavily in the Michael Backland camp as I was. But the thing with Kessler, that's interesting to me is, like, you know, ultimately in terms of just practical value moving forward in the rest of these playoffs, it doesn't necessarily matter. But just as a thought exercise, like I have such a tough time separating his contributions from even like his linemate Silverberg and Cogliano.

Like I know I've been asked who's driving the bus there and who's the most important player out of those three. And it's I'm not even sure it's Kessler. Like it's just such a fascinating exercise to try and figure out like who's responsible for what in terms of that combination. Yeah, no, it's, I agree with you. I think it is fascinating.

like I it's funny I've looked pretty closely at Vancouver like over the last Oh I feel sorry for you man that sounds terrible Well this year I've tried to avoid it But over the past 10 years right Like when the Canucks were like peak Canucks Like that absolutely dominant team

Kessler was driving that line Then he gets driving that second line Then he gets hurt and he misses a year And like his number is never rebounded In Vancouver And then he comes to Anaheim And all of a sudden he gets in with Cogliano and Silverberg, and his numbers are really good.

And so it's kind of like, and they're not great on the penalty kill, right? Like, to me, I don't know, like, he's an average penalty killer. But, you know, so I, you're right. Like, it's a question of who's driving the bus there. And I have a hard time betting on a guy who is 30, whatever he is, like in his 30s, and who looked to have been having kind of a down period in his career, all of a sudden getting really good again. And so it's kind of a, you know,

to whom do you give the credit? I have a hard time believing that the credit should go to him. Now, he's got some aspects to his game that I think will age well. Like, if you're right-handed, that makes you kind of a valuable commodity in the NHL. He can shoot the puck,

you can score goals. But I'm not convinced that he's kind of driving a shutdown line for the ducks. You know, I suspect the Cogliano, Silverberg, deserves some credit for that. And I also think, like, whenever you talk about Anaheim, and it's ridiculous. I've talked to some guys who voted for the Norris Trophy,

and like Hamphus Lindholm just gets no attention. And, you know, like I've tweeted this out, but like when you look at Ducks Forward with and without Lindholm, it's crazy how different their numbers are. Yeah, yeah, he's pretty good. Well, a lot of time to talk about the flames this off season, but I think that I did want to quickly discuss, you know, where they go from here because I think they're one of the most fast.

teams in the league to keep an eye on this summer. Listen, they're in good shape. They have their core in place right now, and they have a lot of interesting players, but there's also a few big questions. And, you know, I guess it all starts with why does Brad Tree Living currently not have a contract? And is he going to be back? Because I'd feel much more confident in saying that they're going to handle this summer

appropriately if he is. But it just seems weird that this is like a story that a lot of people aren't really talking about, right now that he still hasn't been re-uped for next season and no one's really discussing it? Well, I think people are discussing it. It's been kind of a staple of the late panel on Hockey Night in Canada for the last two months. You know, people furrowing their brows. I don't know. Who knows what the deal is there.

It does seem like a strange thing. I agree with you. He's done a lot of good things. Like the one thing that I don't like that Calgary's kind of had a habit of doing is paying depth guys. And, you know, I know, everyone likes to pick up on the Brower contract. I know the Flames fans, I know are pretty uptight about that. But there's so much good stuff there with Dougie Hamilton.

Oh, man, now I'm blanking for league. Like, he's made a lot of good moves. And just generally, like, from a philosophical perspective, you know, trying to get the team to a puck possession team as opposed to that kind of, oh, let's just play counterfeit. on chalky and get pounded and try and hit him on the break. Like philosophically, I like that approach. So, yeah, I'm with you.

Like, I think, you know, when you've got a guy who's kind of demonstrated the ability to do good work like him and the team's done well, which it has, to a certain extent, I kind of think get out of the way. Well, like, the reason why I say they're interesting is because it's like their needs are pretty well defined where they could really use a fourth defenseman to play with T.J. Brody. they could really use another like sort of skilled forward they can keep up with with goodrow and monahan and maybe bump the furlin down the lineup and those were the same needs they needed at the

trade deadline and unfortunately they didn't really address either of them so it remains to be seen whether they can properly evaluate their needs and actually go about fixing them and i think the other big question is like you know their goaltending really uh let them down in this series and I think that for teams sometimes, like that kind of disappointment can lead them into overreacting in the summer and, you know, thinking that that's a really big need for them and we're going to shore this up by devoting a lot of resources to it. And I think that, like, that would be a pretty, I would hope that they wouldn't, you know, throw a bunch of money at a guy like Ben Bishop or something just to try to make sure like this doesn't happen again because I thought, you know, both Johnson

and Elliott are impending free agents and we'll see what they decide to do with them. But I don't think that I would never like side in the camp of overreacting to four bad games in net and and trying to fix it by throwing a bunch of money at it. I agree on the throwing a bunch of money at it. At the same time, I think sometimes, you know, when it goes bad for a goalie, you get into a position where the fans feel like they don't trust them. The organization feels like they don't trust them. And, you know, so like in Elliott's case, like it's probably better for everyone if Elliot

moves on. And that's a shame because he played really well at points this year. but like those two games in Calgary were just devastating and he really he really struggled and you know he had a tough start to the year so do you want to bring him back and every time he lets in a bad goal everyone's going to be kind of holding their breath going

oh god here we go again so you know I agree with you in the sense of now you know that said I agree with you that you can't make a good player great by giving him too much money. You can't make an average player good by giving him too much money. You can't make a bad player average by giving him too much money. So, like, I agree with you. Like, you know, Calgary going out and bombing a bunch of money at somebody

isn't going to solve the issue. But I also kind of think that this might be a year in which there is, you know, some things available, a goalie, just there do seem to be some guys floating around. And it's funny, like, if you have a team like Calgary, like, you know, And again, like this kind of ties neatly back to the point We were talking about Tim Murray at the beginning. Like, you know, I don't know what the devils are trying to do. But like, they aren't trying to win a Stanley Cup right now.

So is Corey Schneider worth more to them or is he worth more to a team that is trying to win a Stanley Cup right now? And I know he had a bit of a down year, but you'd still expect him to bounce back, right? Yep. And, and like, if you're Calgary, like, I think Calgary's got a window to win. Like, you know, I do think they have a window to win.

If you could get Corey Schneider, boy, you'd take a huge step as far as being in a position to sleep well at night and not worry about who's going to be between the pipes. Yeah, I guess it all depends on what the asking price for that would be. But I agree he would make much more sense in a team like Calgary than New Jersey at this point of his career. Okay, let's talk Senators Bruins here. This is one of the most surprising series, I guess, so far for me, because it seemed like everyone was just chalking that. up is probably like Bruins in five.

Yeah. But listen, the senators have, I think it's safe to say, outplay them so far in this series. Like regardless of, you know, they're up 3-1, but even just purely taking that out of the equation looking at how they've played, they've blown me away by how much better they've looked than I thought they would against this Bruins team. And I think a lot of that probably can be chalked up to the Bruins blue line issues and other injuries throughout the lineup.

Yeah. No, I think there's a big element of that. And I know, like, going into this series, I wasn't really wild about Ottawa. At the same time, like, you're right, the sentence impressed me. I think something I probably didn't account for, although I think it's hard to account for, is the impact of Clark McCarthur. Like, he's been, and again, like, this series has been head to head with other series, so I haven't seen as much of it as I'd like.

I think I've seen two games or bits of the other two. But MacArthur, you know, he has really impressed me. you consider he's a guy who's basically out of hockey for two years. And, you know, he's given them, you know, he's another guy who's good from a possession perspective. And then, you know, so it's sort of been, from my view, a mix of that. Who was that guy who was on the ice for the winning goal in game three? Is his name Tommy Cross?

Is that a mean? Yeah, I've never heard of him before and I follow hockey pretty closely. I know. I was, so I would look, I think he was like a second round pick in 2007. who has like two NHL game. And, you know, you remember when Calgary went to the finals in 2004? And they had a guy, what was his name? Was it Brennan Evans?

Yeah. And I don't think, I think he might have played, like, I think he might be one of those guys who has, like, more playoff games than regular season games. And I'm just looking up, yeah, he has two playoff games and no regular season games, right? But you usually don't start seeing the Brennan Evans of the world until, like, late in the playoffs. It's like, you know, when it's round one and you're running out Philip Cross, or not Philip, what's his name? Joe Cross? Yeah, Jeff Cross, Tommy Cross.

Yes. You know, when it's round one, are you doing that? It probably says something about, you know, the state of your defense. Yeah, the guys played three NHL games ever. And it's, you know, in the playoffs, the margins are thin. And, you know, I think that's really, really hurt the Bruins. doing that. And then obviously, you know, Eric Carlson's kind of in, uh, in freak mode. Yeah. No, I think the Bruins had a streak there where I believe it was like four straight games.

Uh, they ended it with only five healthy defensemen. And each time they started with six, it was just, it was remarkable seeing a guys drop like flies there. But now, you're right. I think, I think this series Carlson is having is, uh, we honestly can't overstate how good it's been because hockey, I agree is generally a team game. And unlike in, you know, we're seeing with, with the basketball playoffs going on right now. Like aside from the goalie, it's really tough for one player to just single-handedly win a series.

But like Carlson is doing it as close as I can really remember in the recent past. Like just you look at the fact that they have one goal as a team in like 125 on five minutes without him on the ice. Like it's whenever he's not out there, they're just, it's, nothing is really going to happen.

And then he gets out there and all of a sudden they're dominating regardless of whether the Berger online is on the ice or whoever is out there for the Bruins. And it's just remarkable. the impact he's had on this series and how all of a sudden people are now acting like this is a new thing for him and that we should start considering him as a top player in the league as if that hasn't been the case for like four or five years now already. Yeah, okay, that is funny, right?

Like, I think when Eric Carlson's 45 or retired looking back over his career, he's going to look at Gibe Boucher coming to the Ottawa Senators is kind of like someone who gets baptized and all his sins are washed away, right? because, I don't know, I think Carlson's great. I think he used to be great. But it's like he's never going to have to live with that. Oh, he's just a rover. He doesn't play defense again for the rest of his career.

Because, you know, Gibouchet has come and washed his sin away. So, you know, that's just no longer going to be considered a valid criticism of him. And, you know, it was silly. Like the guy played an aggressive game, but, hey, he produced. So I think it was a bit of a silly criticism before. So that's sort of, you know, the first thing I think about that. The second thing I find it funny about this, like, hockey night in Canada loves to, like, give you, like, information, which is cool.

But then they sort of rave about it. And I think sometimes they kind of miss the forest for the trees, right? So that, like, the one thing they go on about, there's a couple things. You ever notice how, like, they'll, like, put up a shot speed, and they'll be like, this was, like, 75 kilometers an hour. Have you noticed that? Yep. Yeah.

And it's like, okay, but 75 kilometers an hour, isn't that fast? people in my league shoot the puck 75 kilometers an hour. Like what's impressive is not the number. What's impressive is that you can beat an NHL goalie shooting 75 kilometers an hour if you move the puck around well enough, right? And it was the same with that that saucer pass that what's his name? Hoffman. Oh, no, well, yeah, yeah, Carlson made the Hoffman. Yep.

Like, it's not that hard to make a pass 120 feet on the tape because the other guy's adjusting for it. and like I don't know it's not that hard to make a saucer pass what's impressive is seeing a guy who's 120 feet away and putting it in a position that he can get it like that was really the magic of that pass to me not not the fact that it was you know

120 foot pass and like the magic of Carlson is that that he you know he sees these opportunities on the ice that other people don't see and he has the willingness to take a run at him right

He's got a couple of those, I think, you know, like the Bobby Ryan goal in game four was a good example where it looked like kind of like one of those slap passes. And I don't think anyone else in the ice realized that Bobby Ryan was cutting back door and was going to be wide open for a tap in other than Carlson right there. And another one was like in game two, I believe, when they tied it up late when he was like cycling around in the offensive zone and every single person on the ice was looking at looking at him, except for the guy who wound up receiving the pass and scoring an easy one himself. So it's like he's just thinking the game on another level right now. And I wonder, you know, we talk about these adjustments and what teams can do to get back in a series. I don't, I don't really know what you do right now if you're, if you're Butch Cassidy and the Bruins right now, other than just hoping that Carlson stops playing this well. Like, I don't know, like heading into Game 5 in Ottawa, like, what adjustment would you possibly be able to make right now to slow him down?

Well, and I haven't looked at a matchups in this series. But you're right. Like, just aside here. like the story of the series in one line is Carlson sees things the Bruins don't. And that's been the case game two, game three, game four. You know, I haven't paid attention to the matches in the series. I would think that, and it's strange to talk about trying to match a forward line against a defense, a defenseman. Right.

But, you know, if I was Boston, I'd be wanting to get Bergeron's line out against, what's his name, Carlson, as much as humanly possible. Just because that Bergeron line is so good. and Ottawa is a strange team where you know you need to game plan for the defenseman not you know a key forward or key forward line. Yeah, it's fascinating. I guess we'll see how it goes and we, you know, we might be eating our words about writing the senators off like we have all season. It's been it's been a cool story just seeing how Carlson's been able to take

this game to the next level and seeing people start to finally appreciate him for the great player here. Let's take a quick little break here to hear from our sponsors and we'll get back to the rest of the series and now there's actually. of things. All right. Let me give all you a quick heads up about Seekek, who have been kind enough to both sponsor the show and also provide those of you who aren't skipping past a segment, essentially

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They've got a really handy mobile app that requires only a few clicks to find the best values on tickets that are out there. And when you finally pick something out to your liking, they'll even provide you with a $20 rebate to use on future ones as well. To get your own $20 rebate on tickets, all you have to do is download the Siki app, go to the settings tab and click add a promo code, PDO, enter the promo code PDO, and Cickeek will send you $20 after you made your first ticket purchase. All you've got to do is download the Ciki app and enter the promo code PDO today and you'll get those $20. Now let's get back to the show. All right, let's talk Blackhawks Predators here. I know that you were in the strong vocal camp of being a skeptical of the Blackhawks.

Maybe not even, you know, to win this series, but just based on how they were being talked about and how pretty much everyone was picking them, myself included, and how the Vegas line was just so out of whack and having them as one of the biggest favorites here in round one. I don't know. I guess it's it's it's it's played out how you how you thought I would so far uh yeah except for the um except for the whole thing like you know I wouldn't expect anyone to be up for you nothing so sorry are we recording right now yep yeah we are just confused the people who you know if you want to know what it's like on the other side of the video

cast what happens is demetri says we're going to do a commercial yeah and if you've ever done any radio what usually happens is that means that that means that, you know, you sometimes have some chit chat off the air. In Dimitri's case, it means, okay, we're doing a commercial, two-second pause, and then you just start roaring back into it. I'm a podcasting professional here, man. Come on now. And I was like, man, I'm not wasting my good stuff on small talk to you. Okay, so obviously I'm surprised that it's 3-0, right?

You never expect a 3-0. At the same time, you know, there was a really good argument that Nashville was the better team. And like the crazy thing to me about this series is the way the NHL does goal difference, right? And this is a, like, I'm a big believer in goal difference as sort of a measure of a team. And the NHL, and this drives me nuts, they include shootout goals for and against. Like if you win a game, you get credited with one. If you lose a game, you get dinged with one. They include three on three overtime goals and empty net goals.

And there's just so much stuff in there that isn't really about hockey. It's sort of about, you know, the sort of the circus that the NHL uses to settle a quarter of the games. And it was crazy this year. I think Chicago was 15 goal difference better than Nashville officially. But if you stripped out that stuff, all of a sudden Nashville was 17 goal difference better than Chicago. So that's a massive swing. And it's just like Chicago to me, like it wasn't real their record. and, you know, like, it may well be that Quenzel does a lot of good things in the regular season,

and obviously he's a great playoff coach, too, but, you know, it may well be that he's got some good things figured out for overtime, and overtime may also favor Chicago, right, just with the structure of their roster. So, you know, the problem is, though, is that doesn't tell you much about what's going to go on in the playoffs, because there's not going to be any three-on-three overtime. And, you know, the, you know, the Blackhawks get so much deference, so much respect. And obviously they've earned that, but this just didn't look like a particularly vintage team to me. And watching that overtime in Nashville, holy cow, like the predators were just on the march. And there really wasn't a lot of pushback from Chicago.

Yeah. Yeah. And obviously, you know, the big X factor here is like Pecorane, even though he's looked like a bit of an adventure at times, has been stopping the puck very frequently. And that was like the one concern we would have had heading into the series because it seemed like Crawford over Renee was a pretty big checkmark in the positive column for the Blackhawks, but Renee's held his own and their depth has been impressive. Like, you know, obviously the Forsberg, Arvidsen, Johansen line has dominated,

but just the fact that Kevin Fial has taken this next leap all of a sudden with Yarn Croke and Neil, like that's given them another just dominant scoring line. And all of a sudden, the Blackhawks don't really have the, like the depth concerns we had about them all season have really come to fruition in the series where they just haven't been able to match up with the predators in that regard. Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that. And, you know, I don't know, like at some point Chicago, you know, are they going down the same road as L.A., right? Like, this is kind of how it happened for L.A. is all of a sudden they started having these weird first round, well, not first round losses, but, you know, they missed the

playoffs and they had the first round loss and they missed the playoffs. And the Chicago car, and, you know, And like an issue with that was they're paying too much money to guys who aren't helping the team, you know, in a way that someone making that money should. And I think Chicago's starting to get guys like that. And so, you know, when they run into a deeper team in the playoffs, it creates some issues. And so I look at that Chicago team. And like to me, the challenge they have is can they find a way, can they find a way to get, you know, to get host's money off the books at some point? you know and i think they probably have and and you can't say the host of deal was a bad deal like three stanley cups you'll live with a five million dollar cap hit for four years if you

have to who cares but you know like that seabrook man that's a lot of money for a guy who's not a you know a real good top pair defenseman anyone and and and it's it's you know like it drives me nuts that teams say oh look you can't pay caves and you know you're caves you can't pay you know 10 and a half million well that's not what kills them right like it's those guys I know, I know there's some knock on Taves, but, you know, he's had, you know, some declining linemates around him. But the issue, like, the thing that kills them is the guys you're paying that you just don't get anywhere near value for the cap hit for. And I think that's Chicago's challenge to solve a name. You know, obviously they can't solve it before tonight's game.

But, you know, if they want to get that really deep team together and take another run, that's their issue to fix. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see how they're able to do that. All right, let's bounce around these final three series here. Before we get out of here, let's move on to the Canadians Rangers, which has played out pretty much exactly the way I think we expected, right? Like the Canadians at points in this series have looked like the far superior dominant team

and the Rangers haven't been able to get the puck from them. And then there's been these flashes and, you know, game four, they played much better for sure where the Rangers were just looked like this kind of explosive dynamic team and you're just like how is this the same team it's it's it's it's amazing how wide of a range their outcomes are for a team that's in the playoffs yeah no i i i don't know i i i i the rangers are one of those teams i don't understand i still think montreal is going to win this series um you know like they have i don't it's easy to say they could be up three one i guess they could be down one three two

pretty easily so it it's it's i just i just ultimately I think Montreal is the deeper team with the deeper players. The one thing I do wonder though, and I sort of thought this watching some of the games, is Shea Weber, is New York a bad matchup for him? Because he's not the quickest guy, right? And the Rangers have a lot of guys that can fly out there. And I just wonder if that's kind of an uncomfortable, or not uncomfortable, but you wonder if he would do better with a matchup against a team

that played a bit more of a slow game. And I don't think that's what the Rangers do. Yeah, I think that's safe to say. I mean, it's still, though, like I, if I was betting on it, I think that, you're right, that I would take the Canadians here just because I don't, I don't trust the Rangers to play two more of those really good games in these final three, although I guess it's, it's definitely a possibility at this point that they could, but it's like, if you're the Canadians, you still feel pretty good about your chances just based on your ability to have this sort of more

sustainable puck possession attack that they've shown throughout the season end in the series so far. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see if the Canadians get through, or if the Canadians lose, which is obviously a possibility. You know, I wonder if all the people who were beating the drums about

that Weber PKK trade early in the season when Weber had that hot start, I wonder if they're going to pipe up or if they're going to be all quiet because it sure seemed early in the season. You heard a lot about what a brilliant trade that was. And I feel like you hear less now. Yeah.

Yeah, no, for sure. And I mean, listen, looking ahead, like, I think if you were forecasting this postseason, just based on the bracket, like you would have thought, wow, the Bruins look like they're going to be in pretty good shape to potentially get to an Eastern Conference final here, just going through the Atlantic Division. And all of a sudden, you know, if the senators get through, we'll see, obviously, if Carlson, like we mentioned, is able to maintain this level of play. I think that he can hang with pretty much anyone.

But it seems like an unfair thing to ask him to just keep playing this way for, like, to 20 games in a row. And if he slips up at all, all of a sudden, like, it's pretty wide open here for either the Rangers or the Canadians to make a nice low run. Yeah, yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. Like, I think whoever comes out of this Montreal, New York series is going to be the favorite in the next round.

And now, you know, I should, I'm saying that off the cup. I should take into account what I've learned as far as, you know, maybe MacArthur being a difference maker. consider that, but I do like Montreal if they can get through this series. Like, I think they're in a good spot to go at least to the third round. But, you know, we'll see. Like, the Rangers, the Rangers have been a little better than I expected. Yeah. Do you have, to wrap this up, do you have any overarching takeaways from, from the four games we've seen so far of Penguin's Blue Jackets? Oh, like that's another one. It's, it's almost like one of those central times

on series. Like, it seems like it's always scheduled up against, uh, against, against, against the least games. So I haven't seen a ton of it. The one thing, like, I didn't think Columbus was that good going into the playoffs. I don't think they're that good now. But it's funny, like, I also don't think that the Penguins are necessarily as bulletproof as they were last year.

So I think this was a really good matchup for the Penguins because they might have got the weakest or second weakest team in the bracket. I know it drives Columbus fans and not some people say that. And I'm sorry, but nobody was pumping the tires of their power play unit early in the year more than

mean. Like they were great. They were fantastic. But, you know, the last 30, 40 games, like, they haven't been good. And, you know, like, and I think Columbus has a lot of good things and they're on the way up. But, you know, they've got some issues at their middle six and they've got to figure out a way to make the power play score again. So,

I really do think it was a good matchup for the penguins. Like, obviously, I think the penguins are going to win and put that away. So I think it was a good matchup for the penguins. And it's just, it's just Columbus, you know, they aren't, they aren't, there yet. And it's, it's funny, like, I don't know, I'm a little, you talk about teams that might regress next year. I think Columbus probably needs some work to avoid, to avoid not suffering or

regression. And it's, you know, I really hope they get it figured out. And, you know, just because, like, that's, man, like, somebody pointed out, did you see that or day, that was their first regulation playoff win ever? Yeah, I did. And did you see the other stat about how, I think they've played 14 playoff games in their franchise history, and they've given up at least three goals in every one of them, which obviously goals against is a flawed stat to evaluate goaltending, but it's just like if you're giving up at least three goals every single time, you're probably not going to be winning too many games. Yeah, yeah, and it's not 1984.

No, it's a problem. And so, I don't know, like I, I think it's good for the NHL when, you know, like it's not good for a team in a city, particularly a new team like that when it's just like, you know, you never kind of get the break. you need to make her run. And so Columbus is a team I'd really like to see, you know, have one of those years where they go to the conference finals. I think it would be wild.

Everybody I know who has worked there or spent time there says great things about the city. But I just, they're not a very good team, I don't think. And they've got some great young pieces, but they've got some stuff to clean up before they can really go into a series of Pittsburgh and say, yeah, you know, we should win this. Well, and to be fair, to the Blue Jackets, like, I actually don't think they've looked that overmatch in this series. I think they've been perfectly fine. The problem is that, you know, it seems silly to say it, but it's really true. Like, they don't have Sidney Crosby and Evgeny Malkin. And there's been these stretches where they've, you know, been controlling play and looking fine.

And then all of a sudden you look up at the scoreboard and the Penguins just scored like two or three quick goals. And you're like, how the hell did that happen? And it's like, oh, yeah, the Penguins have easily the two best players in this series. and you just you have to account for that. And that's why I think that while I agree that the penguins aren't the team they were last year, and there's a lot of red flags, like if Crosby and Malkin are going to stay healthy and just be dragging everything up with them, like I would be pretty scared to pick against them in a series.

Except that I think that that works. I think that works until they run into a team that can really. Well, until they run into the capitals, potentially, who also have Ovechkin and Baxter and Kuznetsov. Yeah, let's say they run into the Leafs. Like, who do you think is better? The Capitals are the Penguins. Well, I think the Capitals are better than the Penguins,

but I think the Penguins are better than the Leafs. Right, but say the Leafs get by the caps. I think the pens are closer to the Leafs and the caps are. Yeah, I think that's fair. Transitive property, Demetri. I think that's fair. Yeah, and so, like, I just don't think it's, well, I don't know.

Like, you know what, like, say the Penguins play the Leafs. Who has the better defense right now? neither team yeah it'd be it'd be fun for the fans right the sabers the sabers are the team that has that's very good you bring it you bring it full circle yeah that's why i'm a podcasting professional um all right tyler let's uh let's get out of here plug some stuff uh what do you i know you've been banging out a lot of work of the athletic do you have anything in the in the works right now or are you kind of waiting for uh run two i'm no no no i you know and i've got lots

of thoughts and uh jimbo likes me to write them so so i'll have some stuff up there I'm sure shortly. You can follow my Twitter feed at Delo Hockey. And, yeah, subscribe to the athletic. All right, man. Well, thanks for taking the time. And let's get you back on sometime in round two or something like that. Sounds good, bud.

Cheers. Yeah. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.