The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 168: The Inexplicable Background Noise

Episode Date: May 17, 2017

Greg Wyshynski joins the show to discuss the effects the Ottawa Senators unique playing style has on fan interest, both Conference Finals matchups, and whether there's actually any merit to the idea of an Alex Ovechkin trade this summer. Apologies in advance for the inexplicable jazz music that's playing quietly in the background throughout the show. It wasn't intentionally done, unless you happen to enjoy it, in which case it totally was. The topics covered include: 2:40 The Senators game plan vs. Pittsburgh 4:20 Penguins adjustments from one game to the next 7:07 Mainstream media coming around on Erik Karlsson 12:03 Marc-Andre Fleury's renaissance 12:54 The Ben Bishop trade and signing 16:14 Johansen vs. Kesler matchup 20:06 Lindholm and Silfverberg's stardom 23:41 Nashville as a hockey market 27:36 Where do the Capitals go from here 31:38 Team-building approach in Vegas 35:02 Trading Cory Schneider this summer Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the Hockey P.D.O.cast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. And sitting across from me in a conference. room in the Yahoo studio is Greg Wershinsky. Greg, what's going on, man? Like, we are literally across the table from each other, like a meeting of the five families. Yeah, I wish people could see this because we were sitting close to each other, which seemed like a regular thing for two people in an empty room to be doing. And then I remember that my producer wants us for audio quality, the acoustics to be sitting

as far apart as we can. I would say, like, end of the crease of the faceoff dot right now is the distance between Demetri and I at his table. How are you liking the playoffs, bud? I'm liking them. I mean, I guess this is a good, let's get right into this Senator's Penguin series. I was thinking I'm liking them, and then I remembered watching those first two games of that series, and I haven't necessarily enjoyed them as much as I have the other games.

Well, there's two things I want to say about that. The first is that I find it insulting that people want to compare the 2017 Ottawa Senators to my beloved 95 New Jersey Devils. I've been getting that a lot. That's a Devils team that not only was just taking advantage of the way the game was called and the rules in the 1990s. Rules that, by the way, were dramatically changed to try to prevent

that style of hockey from ever existing again. Nice job again, National Hockey League. But also because, like, maybe this is just me talking as a Devils fan, but, like, I believe that that team evoked some emotion. Like, Scott Stevens was a guy that you either

loved or hated, and Niedermeyer was a guy that you're like, oh, this is a really good young player. I will enjoy watching him blossom into the next Paul Coffey or whatever. And Claude Lemieux was a guy that you hated. There were big personalities in that team that, to me, evoked something from a fan watching the game.

And I don't feel like outside of Eric Carlson, there's really much of that with the senators. And the other thing I'll say is this. Like, this should be the absolute be-all-end-all example of why every time as hockey fans, we talk about changing the game and widening the net and doing this and that, increasing goal scoring, To quote Jurassic Park, nature will find a way.

There will always be in Ottawa Senators, no matter what we do to this game to change it. Right. So short of maybe going for on four, on four. There's always going to be a coach and there's always going to be a team that decides to play this kind of game because that's the only way that they know how to succeed. Well, so here's the interesting dilemma for them because generally, like, if the penguins are completely healthy, I'd say that, you know, they had a pretty clear skill advantage and the only way the senators could really win is if they'd be. just mucked it up and kind of just tried to like limit the events that happen and try to just squeeze out one nothing two one wins like the 96 panthers the better example yes but but with all these injuries i wonder what like if we'll see them make a slight adjustment or whether you know

they're just going to keep playing their game but it feels like the penguins don't necessarily have that same skill advantage anymore especially on the blue line right like you see some of the guys they're trotting out there and it it seems like the senators could potentially benefit from maybe opening it up a bit more and trying to be more and trying to be more more aggressive rather than just holding on for dear life, actually trying to be the aggressor in these games. The real fear for the penguins in the blue line is inexperienced, but also fatigue.

Yeah. Because, I mean, guys like Dumlin and Ian Cole and guys like that are playing beyond what their minutes should have been in the playoffs so far. Well, Ron Hainesie is making up for 14 years worth of lost time in one postseason. And certainly cramming as many miscues and mistakes into that postseason as possible. But, yeah, exactly. And so you not only have a diminished blue line,

but you have guys that are logging more minutes. than they should. You have younger players. The one thing about the penguins and the reason I picked them in this series despite the injuries was the thing that impressed me most about them in game seven against the Capitals

was that calm, assassin-like poise that they had. Now, this is a team that had lost two games in a row. They're in Washington. Every single, quote-unquote, momentum advantage goes to the Capitals. Yeah. It felt like the time in which they were going to finally...

exercise the demon and slay the beast, right? And the penguins were just badasses in that game. They just were unshakable. They were unflavable. They came out and played better in that game than they had played in the majority of the periods in that series. And to me, that transfers over to this. A lesser team, let me rephrase that,

a lesser skilled team. Yes. Goes against the one-three-one and gets shaken. Right. and gets frustrated and thinks, oh, my, and they start gripping their stick because they know if we don't get that one goal, they're going to get that one goal,

and we'll never get that other goal to tie them. And the penguins just approached this thing, and you saw it, maybe I didn't see it in game one because they were kind of feeling it out, but you saw it in game two, for sure. They just approached this thing with such poise. Like, we're going to get it. Like, we're going to play the way we play,

and one of our guys is going to get a shot, and Phil got the shot, and they win the game. Well, that's the thing I love about these series is you do see those adjustments, especially with teams like the penguins who have been there before and they kind of know what to expect from this. I thought game one was about as bad as I've... Like, just from an entertainment perspective for sure,

but also just like their game plan was, it was just a lot of like Chad Ruehito just firing the puck up the middle of the ice and then icing it and then just coming back the other way. And in game two, it did seem like they made a more concerted effort to be more patient with their breakouts, but also just get the puck deep and use that forward speed up front to...

punish the senator's blue liners because as banged up and as questionable as the penguin's blue line is, beyond Carlson, I think that you could also make an argument that the senator's blue line isn't much better itself. And that's kind of been lost in the shuffle here. I mean, Matha can't put a finger on a guy. Yeah. But the thing, you're right. And I think the one, we've seen it since Mike Sullivan took over from Johnson. Like the one of the things that that guy is practiced at the yard of is, is smart dump-ins. And knowing where to put that puck. in order to take advantage of the certain speed advantages he has up front. So there were many questionable things in the playoffs. I had no question that Mike Sullivan was going to be a guy that could figure out what to do against Guy Boucher's defense in a game too. It's funny. I think Sullivan's coached above him beyond what anybody expected him to be as a disciple of Tororella.

I mean, in some ways he has utilized as Penguins' roster in ways that other guys probably couldn't have figured out how to do. and he doesn't necessarily get the credit for it. It's hilarious. Barry Chottes takes an injured Ovechkin off the first line, drops him down, promotes his best forward in the series, the top line.

It works, and there's like... A master tactician. Postseason Jack Adams, baby. And it's like... And then meanwhile, on a game-to-game basis, I mean, Sullivan demonstrably was the better coach in the previous series. Yeah. Okay, so

let's talk about a little bit about Eric Carlson because I think we had this same discussion. last time I was here, we were talking about the individual player awards, and we were talking about the Norris, and I think you brought up the point of how, like, there might be this slight, like, media guilt where they kind of realized their mistakes from last year, and now they're trying to overcompensate for it.

And, I mean, Pierre McGuire, like, listening to these games, I think, and I quote, I think he referred to Eric Carlson's stick as a paintbrush and the ice surface as his canvas. Yes. And he was just, like, the way he was talking about, talking about him. And then if you compare that to the way he was probably talking about him last year and the years before, it's like people are trying to sort of justify all the stuff they used to say

about him being like, oh, well, you know, he's changed his game. He's this different player now. And yeah, it's a bigger stage. They're playing in the conference finals. But beyond that, I mean, kind of looks like the same Eric Carlson to me as it has in years past. Yeah, it's like I said on Twitter last night. They've now gone too far the other way. We're like, you know, it's like, we bring it down to Pierre McGuire between the benches and he's like painting a portrait

of Eric Carlson as a minotaur and it's like yeah but the thing about it though is that someone pointed out it might have been Promin pointed out

I want to say it was Corey that you know the idea that Carlson has been disrespected doesn't hold water when you consider how many times

he's been nominated for awards how many awards he's won and to which I say yeah because that's the writers like we're really smart it's the on-air guys that would get up there and be like yeah jonesy doesn't play defense at all doesn't want it

and it's just like come on man and so that's where the big change has happened is the way that Carlson's spoken about during the game where um I mean go back to October he blows that he blows that check on on Matthews in that game in the four-go-go-game yep and I mean you had people back then saying see him while they were Carlson but that's before he bought into Gibeouche's system Right, exactly. And so, and so you could go back less than 365 to find an example of when Eric Carlson's defense was questioned by mainstream broadcast media. But like, yeah, I mean, listen, it is, it is, I'll accept the going too far the other way thing if it means that we, we, you know, celebrate what this guy is. Right.

Like, me and Lozo and Down Goes Brown put him on our top 100 list. Yeah. And for good reason. Like, he is the best defenseman in this league since Lidstrom. Yeah. And we're going to look back on. this and be like, wow, that was an all-timer. We got to watch.

Yeah. No, he's, it's kind of impossible to go too far the other way because it's like, I mean, obviously you reach a certain breaking point, but like just what he's doing, even in these games where he's not necessarily putting up points or anything, like in game two, like, just like the little stuff he does like breaking out of his own zone and avoiding checks. I mean, it seemed like the penguins are making a concerted effort to try and get a bit more physical with him and kind of rough him up a bit, but it's like, well, first you got to catch him. Well, let me proffer this question to you. Obviously, Dominic Hashtick is considered to be one of the best goaltenders of all time.

Right. But still underrated somehow. You see, but the thing is, is that I think that much like a coach who coaches a seemingly mediocre team to the playoffs and gets the Jack Adams, like there's a certain deification of hostage that occurs because his teams were so bad, and he was seen to have elevated them. Right. Would Eric Carlson be as lauded, were he on? on the Blackhawks. Do we see the effects that he has when he's on the ice

because the team around him is so poor that it just seems Herculean the effort that he's putting in on a game-by-game base? I mean, there is definitely a little bit of that where, you know, when you look at the on ice first off-ice splits when it's like, they're one of the worst teams in the league. And then they're the 08 red wings with him on the ice.

And it's like, yeah, of course, if the team around him was better. But I mean... Would you just be Duncan Keith, though? But people were talking about Duncan Keith. like he was like one of the best players in the game. I believe he is one of the top 100 players of all times. Is he not? Did he make that list for the NHTEL?

I think just all of the Blackhawks members. I think he made our list too. Taves it. I mean, I thought it was weird when Mick Schmaltz after having like 40 games under his belt made it. Scott Darling was taken off the list when he was. Vinie Hineshistorza was 101 actually. No, I don't know. Is there anything else on that series we want to get to?

Like I don't know. Just I think, you know, Sid, Sid's still doing Sid things, but not at Sid Velocity. Not the same thing that we saw at the beginning of the playoffs. I thought he was weirdly quiet in game one. I thought he was a bit better in game two. He can still make plays, and he still makes plays like he's thinking 10 steps ahead, and guys don't know how to stick on the passes.

But it doesn't seem like he's skating with the same Viam and Viguer that he had earlier. And Malkin's been up and down, and Phil is Phil. But the bottom line is that, like, it's, you just know those guys are going to make a play at some point. And the other thing to talk about, obviously, is Flurry, who's, I mean. It's like a 9.30, 1, say, a percentage so far. I can't even. I thought there was a chance that this was going to be a thing where he was just a capital's killer and then he turned back into a pumpkin at some point.

Right. But he's just great. And I don't know what it is. I would love to climb under that guy's brain and know exactly where he is mentally. Is it my last ride? Is it, I'm going to impress somebody beyond Las Vegas to acquire me. I want to be a flame. Right.

Like, what is going on in his nagon? that is the extra focus and motivation to do what he's done in these playoffs, because he's been insanely good. Yeah, I don't know, maybe he's just as a new lease on life now that he knows that he won't have to play behind that Star's Blue Line next year. Excuse me, Sir, that's Ken Hitchcock's Starz, blue line. That'll be fine. He always gets great results in the first two years, and then everybody starts hating him.

Yeah, I haven't really talked about that on this show. I mean, what were your thoughts on the bishop trade and then signing? I hate the term. Yeah. I talked to Jim Neill about that, and I get the feeling Neil hates the term too, which is why I think he was in the market for Scott Darling. Like, he's a guy,

he's not an idiot. Like, he clearly wants a four-year term for a goalie. Yeah. Especially knowing what's happened with his gold-hitting situation. Especially a guy that's over 30 now. Yeah, and long-term contracts. I mean, both Nemi and Leighton are both, I think, 33. I think it's a good... Listen, if they go to war

a war next year with Kenna Hitchcock behind the bench, Ben Bishop as your starter, and Kari Lettinen as your backup. it's way too much money for your goal-tending position, but they're not against the ceiling. Right. So I think you could be okay there. His hope is that once the goalie musical chairs settles

after the expansion draft, someone's going to look at Niemi and say, okay, for one year and the stars pick up some of the cost, we'll do that. Like the penguins, for example. If they remedy the Flurry situation, and it's Matt Murray, and they're like, yeah, but maybe a veteran behind.

them like they would take Niemie if Dallas picks up a lot of the freight and that's what that's what Nils hoping in lieu of a buyout right is that there's a more equitable financial decision and maybe they get an asset back for them yeah I'm curious to see what they're going to look like under hitchcock honestly I mean it's funny because especially letton wasn't that bad last year at 515 his overall save percentage was bad just because they had like a historically bad penalty kill yeah and I believe that is a lot to do with coaching and I think NHL teams in general don't devote enough attention and resources to special teams. So we'll see what Hitchcock does there.

I think he's fine. He's a good goalie, but he's not a guy you can roll 45 games. I mean, one, because his health won't hold up, you know, and two, just because I don't trust him for that long. But, like, the interesting thing for me about the Star's offseason now that they've gotten Bishop is do they add a veteran component for the blue line? Because the one place where I think Nill has really been not good is his complete and utter confidence that the young defensemen they have are going to blossom. Right.

And he went and, you know, he got O'Doia. Yeah. But, I mean, he's also let Golgoski go and made – Well, I mean, Golgowski and DeMERS got hefty enough contracts. Like, I could understand not wanting to pick up the tab on those guys. But then, you know, not replacing them with anything is the issue there. Yeah. The thing that makes me worry, though, is that, like, when you saw how well Klingberg played with Golgowski,

and then you break up that duo, and then you see what happened to Klingberg without Gologsky, it kind of like, you're like, ooh, maybe you should have kept that one. Yeah. I think they'll be fine. I mean, I think Bishop's going to be, like, at least league average. And as long as we're not having this discussion next year, like, you know, the stars just need their goaltending not to be the biggest issue, like, as long as it's keeping their head about water. The only thing we know for sure with Ken Hitchcock there is that. Nukushkin will ever play there.

Poor Val. Baking the Val train. Okay, let's talk a bit about Predators' Predators' Ducks. I think that series has been much more enjoyable. Obviously, there's the big storyline that I guess we've got to get to off the top is Kessler versus Johansson.

Where are you at with that drama? Yeah, I thought Johansson was dumb. Like, I understand your frustration and stuff, but, like, it just goes to show that, you know, for a lot of these Predators guys, It's like it's their first ride this deep end of the playoffs. Like, what do you gain from, from laying off that steam other than allowing Ryan Kessler to know that there's blood in the water?

And it's hilarious because, like, in every other instance where you go up to a guy in the locker room and be like, hey, so the other team is doing this, that, and the other thing against you guys, like, what do you think about that? Your answer is, well, I don't think about them. I think about what I have to do. Yeah. Except for when someone comes to Ryan Johansen and has been like,

Hey, what did you think of Ryan Kessler and X, Y, Z, and what he did to you? Ah, his own family shouldn't watch him. I don't know. He's a disgrace to hockey. Just like, don't. Like, what's the point? Just say it's not about him. Yeah.

And then just do your thing. And then in game three points of the scoreboard. Because the other thing about it, too, like I wrote, like, you don't have to say anything. You outplayed him. Yeah. Like, you were the better player in that game. And to kind of, it's almost like you're lowering yourself to address the extracurricular stuff when you outplayed him in that game. Like, Kessler didn't do his job.

Like, Johansson had two points. He outplayed him and had more shot attempts and everything else. Well, yeah, that was the big thing, the big X factor in the series against the Oilers was Kessler's line not only neutralized, but actually outplayed like David. And then that just freed up Getsla to run wild on their second, third, fourth line. And in this series so far, it's only through two games. We're recording this before game three's played. But like the Yohansen line has dominated at five-on-five whenever Kessler's been out there. So it does seem weird.

I think, I don't know if it was Ray Fromm. or someone brought up this point online about how, you know, there could be a potential advantage to, like, you don't want to be calling out the referees for not calling stuff. So, like, Johansson's kind of bringing attention to what's happening without pissing off the refs. So maybe he gets a few extra calls in the next coming games. I mean, obviously, it's all very, like, anecdotal stuff.

I think calling out the refs does work, by the way. I think that's why coaches do it. Maybe players can't do it, but coaches can do it. Maybe there's a double standard. No, the interesting thing is, The interesting wrinkle in the Predators case against the Ducks, because I agree, that checking line of Kessler should be, at least playing them even, maybe even be better than,

they've been great in these playoffs. The wrinkle was how much scoring they get from the blue line. To have, I think it was three of their top five scorers coming into this series, be defensemen. Yeah. It's just unheard of. And so I wasn't really that concerned about what if their top forward line gets kept in check,

just because they have other interests. ways to generate offense against the ducks. Well, these are probably the two best blue lines in the league, I'd imagine. Like, I can't think of a third one that would be in that discussion. And I don't know, it's fascinating because I'm a big believer that NHL teams in general really struggle with how they evaluate defensemen and what they prioritize. And these two teams have done a remarkable job of just getting like six guys that can just skate and move the puck.

I mean, obviously if BXA was healthy and playing, maybe he'd be. be the one kind of caveat to that. But like right now, I mean, even if you look at someone like Josh Manson or Matias Eckholm, like they're big physical guys, but they actually have like discernible hockey skills that you can point to. So it's not just, oh, they're six foot five. Like they're, yeah. And even their, their best skill guys aren't Keithy Handel.

Like they can, they can de up guys too. Like, P.K., you know, can you imagine if P.K. played this type of series in Montreal through three rounds? Like the Quebec media would kill him Yeah Like where are the points Where's the impact And it's like all he does is impact

He's been great I think Maybe as soon as next year We really need to start talking about Hampas Landholm as Being in that like Drew Dowdy Yeah

He's fantastic It's uh And he gets better too Yeah Yeah Well it's just I mean obviously you know From like an analytical

perspective He makes everyone better By the shot attempts Atemps And whatever you look at when they play with him versus without him. But also just the eye test, if you watch, like, so many times other teams coming in with an automatic manager or something,

and he just, like, single-handedly stops it, and then gets the puck going down the way and might not get an assist or goal on the play, but it's like, you can't take away from just the impact. You can. And it's amazing to think that, like, again, you track back to, like, the beginning of this year when people started talking about, like, the expansion draft,

you're like, are they going to lose, are they going to lose Sulfurberg? Like, these are actual things that were said about the ducks at some point. No one's saying them anymore. Yeah, to think about it now, it's insane. Because those guys are such perfect building blocks. In Linholm's case, just a foundational defenseman. In Silverberg's case, I mean, like, you don't want to throw around hyperbolic comparisons,

but the Alfredson comparisons, not too far off from the way he's playing this posty. Yeah, the weird thing with him has been, like, I remember when he came up with Ottawa, and then when he, first times we got to see him, like, it's pretty clear that his shot is his, like, a big weapon. But then he's been like an 8% shooter for his career so far. And it's been slowly ticking upwards, but he's still like a below league average guy. And then you see like the right shot come off his stick. And it goes like top corner.

He's like, how what? Yeah. Like what's happening here? Unstoppable sometimes. And I'm just happy that, you know, if things do track the right way, we may finally in the cup final have a definitive answer who won the Bobby Ryan trade. Oh, boy. Yeah.

That's the only sell. point to a duck's senator's final. Oh, it's a rematch. Oh, that's true, too. A rematch, as I tell, you know, Ottawa fans are delusional, as you know. And I always tell them about here in the States

that no one cares about Ottawa. I'm like, well, you should care about Ottawa if you're a hockey fan. Eric Carlson, blah, blah. I'm like, no, don't misunderstand. Hockey fans care about Ottawa. We care about a lot of the players in Ottawa. But when the senators played the Ducks one Saturday night in 2007,

The program was, as measured, the lowest rated program of any kind that had ever been on broadcast television on a Saturday night. Like, lower than a rerun of, like, Cagney and Lacey. Like, lower than, like, anything. Like, it was one of the lowest rated programs ever had on a Saturday night. And those two teams actually had, like, very notable, marketable players, too. It wasn't like that. But the way the ratings work here is that we don't get, the networks don't get any ratings from Canadian cities. Right. So what you need from a Canadian city.

When a Canadian city is in a series against an American city, what you need is either an American team that local ratings and national interest in that team are going to carry the rating or a Canadian team that has American appeal. Right. You don't have that in Ottawa, but you do have in Pittsburgh a team that the local ratings are insane and enough of us care about Sid and the penguins and maybe want to see them win, maybe want to see them lose, that the national number has been really strong. Same thing with Vancouver and Boston. Although that series kind of took on a life of its own to where people had to watch it. So, I mean, an Ottawa Nashville or Ottawa duck series is going to be ratings death.

Because there's just not going to be enough interest. But you put the penguins against either of those teams, I think you might have something, especially Nashville. Well, we were talking about this before the air as a media member that will be traveling for the Stanley Cup final. I imagine you're cheering for the Predators pretty heartily here. Well, I do like watching a lot of movies. on planes, and I can do that on that

Pittsburgh-Anaheim flight. Right. And Ottawa-Anaheim as well, although I question whether there is a direct flight from Ottawa to Anaheim. I'm not quite sure. But yeah, I mean, I think from an interest perspective, just knowing our readership

and knowing what clicks and what doesn't, the Predators and Penguins would be the money series that's still on the table. I mean, the Nashville thing's kind of taking a life of its own right now with not only like the fandom but the fishes being thrown on the ice and the crazy anthem singer guy who's snarking about Carrie Underwood taking his job and like there's a lot of things that are happening around Nashville that are kind of fun that you can play around with and have some

you know ancillary bloggy fun with and Pittsburgh's the same way too right I mean I went to I was in Nashville back in December and I went to a game and I can vouch for the fact that like If you didn't know where you were or what you were watching you'd be like this is like one of the best hockey markets in the world like the fans are just insane and when they score a goal

they're just like telling the other goal he sucks and it's his fault and it's amazing. I mean there's a very good chance that if they played the penguins in the cup final someone will barbecue a penguin someone will find a penguin

and murder it and you'll just see it on a like a spit outside of the parking lot and that that will be Nashville's Maxwell's declarative statement on the series. Yeah. Yeah.

Is there anything else from the series that were missed? Any other angles? Um, it seems like, you know, I guess Getslath is, um, kind of next level right now. Like I,

it's easy to forget sometimes, um, how good he is. Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't know whether it's just, because he's playing in Anaheim or he's,

you know, not, maybe coasting a little bit during the regular season. what have you, but it's easy to forget that, and then you watch him on a nightly basis now, and he's just so dominant. Well, they've got two guys. I think Kessler, in some ways, is the same way,

although I think he does it in different ways, that can exert their will on a series and change it. And it's rare as the player that could do that in the National Hockey League. And Gets Laugh, if you watch them in these previous two rounds, there are games in which he just said, nope, I'm going to do this now. And, like, it's incredible to watch, because he's not always been that player.

And there was a time during Boudreau's time there when he ascended to the captaincy and he took it seriously and kids, he got his life in order and just became a different dude and really committed himself to being as great as he can. Have you following this thing about

how he arrives to the rink? He comes and he's like apparently sponsored by some car company and he just shows up and he just swagged out. Amazing. And then Kessler's the same I mean, Kessler is one of my most favorite guys to watch in the playoffs

and I made the Claude Lemieux comparison a couple days ago. And it's very much like that. Like, he'll beat you on the scoreboard and then he'll piss you off to no end. And I still remember that series against Nashville when he was with Vancouver where it was like, he did everything.

He, like, pissed off people, and he was public enemy number one, and he was scoring game winning goals. And it's just like, how do you package that? Yeah. And it's amazing the thing, too. Like, you know, I've been thinking a lot about the capitals, obviously, as we all have.

And thinking about the lack of a Kessler type, the lack of a Hornquist type. The lack of some of these guys that just have a knack for big moments and also a knack for having big moments within two or three inches of the goalie, which is something that the Capitals could probably use going forward as that type of player. Okay, well, I do want to end this discussion talking about the Capitals a little bit, like where they go from here? Like, this is a pretty big summer for them because obviously they have a handful of guys.

They're probably going to lose someone good and very important to them in the expansion draft. They've got a bunch of free agents. Now people are talking about trading Obechkin, which I don't even know where to start with that. Like, well, if you're running the capitals, where are you going this summer? You lose Alznor. Yeah. And that's fine. Well, that's, yeah, I mean.

I mean, that's going to be obvious. I think someone's going to overpay them to be like their rocket offensemen to go along with their, you know, fleet of foot, you know, offensive D man. I think, like, you could see Philly doing that to put them with Gossus, Bear, for example. Or you could see Buffalo doing that, too. I think I'm a real stay-of-the-course guy, to be honest with you. Like, A, trading of education is stupid. Yeah. Because the reason people are doing it is because, well, you can't win with him.

Like, no, all you have is one with him. You just have one in the playoffs with him. And most of the time, outside of this year, it's not been his fault. It's just that, like, people have taken this opportunity to be like, well, it's his fault now because he didn't do anything in game four and he didn't do anything in game seven. I mean, while he was injured, like, crazy. Yeah. Right.

So I say the course Because like again This is a President's trophy team They lost in a game seven in the second round And I say to myself Well what if something freaky happened And a hot goal he took out the Penguins next year And you make the playoffs again

Yeah What happens then? Are they going to lose in the second round again? Or if this was another team Do they win this series? So I think they do. So I'm a very stay-of-course guy And I think there is now proof of concept for that

because you look at San Jose. And that is a team that for a decade had two guys that couldn't win. And then the planets aligned and they got Cotter and Pavelsky matured and, you know, things broke the right way. The right coach came in and all of a sudden they played for a cup.

So I don't get... I don't... I guess the reason... My problem with the blow-up the cap's idea is that no one's really told me what the end result of that is. Trade Ovechkin. Okay, great. For what?

Oh, you know, someone else will have, we'll give you a lot for him because he's marketable. Okay. But if that's a team that's close to winning and you've just demonstrated to me that he can't win, why would they give you all their assets for a guy that's not going to get them over the hump? If the premise of your trade is that he can't win in the postseason.

Like, who does that? I think there's a coherent argument to be made for exploring trading Ovechkin just in the sense. Yeah, and that, you know, he's like his 5-on-5 game kind of took a nose dive this year and we'll see whether that's something that's going to keep trending in the wrong direction probably will just based on his age and what we know about aging curves. So you can make that argument, but making the argument that the reason the capitals haven't gotten over the hump is because he's a bad leader and all this stuff and how they've been

unsuccessful with him. Like, do people remember what the capitals look like before Alex Ovechkin came to Washington? Like, I don't, it's... Well, Elliot made the point in his piece this week about like he had somebody tell him that, you You know, if you trade Ovetkin, you still have Baxter and Oshy, you'll be able to re-sign Carlson, blah, blah, blah. It'll be a lot there. Yeah, there'll be a lot there, but you won't have...

Yeah, we're getting those 35 to 40 goals in the scoring. Yeah, so I'm a stay-of-course guy. I feel like the window is still there. I think once again, the focus is on the wrong guy. Right. Because it says two post seasons in a row against the Penguins for Braden Holby. It's completely been human. Yeah.

And I think that's an issue. Well, they should probably stop playing them, like, 65-plus. times in the regular season. Maybe that's the decision. Especially when they're running away with the president's hopefully you don't lose Gruber. You know? And then you can do that.

But I think he's probably gone. I think he's one of the goalies that gets taken in the expansion draft. I stay the course of them. I hope for the best. I know that's a definition of insanity. But I don't know what else you do. I know what you don't do is

believe that the Las Vegas Golden Knights will take Alex Ovechkin off your hands. One, because they would give you a bunch of other team shit back. Yeah. And then two, what are they,

what are they going to trade a one for Alex, for a 32-year-old Alex Ovechka? I don't even know how that thing. Other than George McPhee drafted O'Bechkin, like I don't know what logic leads you to that end

that I've read about in several places. Well, I mean, selfishly, Obechkin in Vegas would be pretty amazing, but... Do you really want that? No, I don't. I want to see him win a cup

or at least make a cup fine. I just mean in the sense that do you want him in vague? That's like putting a vander. cane in Vegas. Like, it's just not a place where I need Alex Ovechkin. Right. Yeah, no, I mean, listen, I think for Vegas would make a lot

of sense. Like, he's instantly putting people in the seats and he's a very marketable star. They don't need that, though. You don't think so? No. Not off the top. For the next two years, that place is going to be packed regardless. They don't need a draw. Their draw will eventually be a winning team. But also their draw is going to be people coming in from outside

of Vegas to watch the team. But they don't it's not like putting a team in a, in a in a traditional, non-traditional market. There are other forces involved there that don't require you to have a marquee name. And if you do need a marquee name, you develop your own. I'm fascinated to see if they do take that approach with building this team

because there is a smart blueprint here for them just loading up on certain types of assets and having a five-year plan or what have you. And then there's the kind of short, quick-fix band-aid approach where they just get a bunch of aging, pricey veterans to try and sell. And I don't know which way they're going to go. Yeah, it completely depends on the owner. I mean, it's good so far that they're actually, like, you know,

they're dipping into the KHL market, for example, and that's what a smart team should be doing, getting these undervalued guys that they're not really paying anything for. It's also going to be really fascinating to see what kind of assets they get flipped their way for not taking guys in the expansion draft. That's, to me, the most fascinating thing is, like, you know, there are going to be teams that simply do not want to lose their backup wholly, because he's an excellent in the succession,

or they don't want to lose their fourth defenseman. and what level of asset goes back the other way to George McFeed? That's the most interesting thing for me. Well, I'm not overly optimistic because I've had my hopes raised before with NHL and quickly brought back down every year around March. But there is this possibility. I forget who raised it. I think it might have been Elliott Freeman when it was 30 thoughts.

But it was like, I'd never even consider the idea that, you know, there might be teams that are interested in certain players that like might be able to, Vegas might claim them and then ship them right away, yeah. Yeah. Which would be amazing. You get all these, like, armchair, GM ideas running through your head, and then you remember that it's NHL and not a bit of properly. The Devils and Rangers will never make a trade,

but if you can get a player from the Devils to the Rangers via Vegas, that will happen. As a Devils fan, how excited are you about getting the first pick? Well, as I mentioned to somebody, when it went down, it's like the week that you win mega millions, but it's only 8 million, as opposed to like 400 million. Like I'm happy they won I think obviously Either guy is going to be

A benefit to them in the long run As they build towards whatever they're building towards But it's not as if there's a transformative player In the draft But I wouldn't trade the pick I think you make the pick So if you're the devils though Are you looking at summer

Into trading Cory Schneider for something interesting? It makes sense if you go into a two-year tank Yeah I think Dallas would have been an interesting part Especially for that third overall pick I don't know if they would have been Yeah, or even if you could have pride hunker from them. Like, that would have been pretty good too.

But, like, that obviously, that ship has sailed. I don't know. It's, I think he's got some trade protection, which kind of complicates things. Who knows? I mean, the thing about this league is that you can turn things around really quickly. Yeah. And so I'm heartened by that. But as a Devils fan, I'm not quite sure what the plan is.

Like, you got Taylor Hall to be the leading scorer on the top. team that was there last year and that team last year was garbage. So now what? Well I mean, I don't like, I just don't think. You trade hall for a vetchka. In terms of timelines, like I love Cory Schneider and I think that this year was a bit of a blip in the radar. I think he'll be like

a 9-29, 25 goal again next year, but it doesn't really make sense on this team because I don't think they're going to be competing for a cup in the next two or three years and at that point it's like it becomes a depreciating asset and I don't, I just they should, I mean they should trade him because obviously all we know is the past

prolog and all we know about Ray Shero is that your team has to be absolutely garbage for about three years and then and then once he gets those toys oh boy stand back you're gonna win a cup for you but you need to really suck for a while in order for that to happen yeah all right let's uh let's get out of here um do you want to plug some stuff what do you what you have to i'm at was Sinski on the twitters you can read me at puck daddy you can listen to both my podcast merrick versus schinski although jeff merrick appears on this podcast more than his own uh and then of course puck soup with me and Dave Lozo, which is on Nerdist and releases every Thursday releases. Like, it's, I don't forget it.

Yes. And then, and then, it drops. Yeah. And then also, if you were in the market for books, I have two worth talking about. Take your eye off the puck. How to Watch Hockey by knowing where to look, which is available on Amazon. And, of course, the one that me and Lozo and Down Goes Brown wrote, the 100 Greatest Players in National History and other stuff, which is an e-book that's available wherever e-books are sold.

Well, I appreciate you taking the time. I would shake your hand, but we're sitting too far apart from each other to do that. I'll give you a tip of the cap. I'll tip my cap to you. I'll write you a nice note and have someone carry it to you. All right. We'll talk to everyone. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich.

Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.