The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 169: How the Predators Won Over The Hockey World

Episode Date: May 25, 2017

Alex Prewitt joins the show to discuss how the Nashville Predators have captured the attention and imagination of the hockey world, how they were constructed and put together from the top down, and why they've been as successful as they have been. The topics covered include: 1:20 The atmosphere at Predators games 6:12 The fickle nature of Hockey Markets 9:31 David Poile's longevity and adaptability 18:46 The job of a coach behind the scenes 22:02 The frantic pace the Predators play at 25:33 Covering for all of the injuries up front 30:30 A frank discussion about PK Subban 36:49 Pekka Rinne's hot playoff run 43:09 Filip Forsberg and The Trade Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Alex, what's going on, man? It's always so soothing, your voice. I know I mentioned it last time. But you drop into this, like, I don't know, when you say welcome, that's, I'm just like, yeah, yeah, I'm here. You know how you hear about, like, teams kind of coasting through the end of the regular season, but then flipping the switch come post season, that's me when, you know, we were having a little chat back and forth before we click record, and as soon as you

click that button, you got to get into, into podcast mode. You're in it. Yes, I'm in it. Let's talk about the preter. Matt, you've been around the team a little bit. You've been hanging out in Nashville, writing some good stories. And honestly, we're recording this on a Thursday afternoon, so I don't really want to talk about the Eastern Conference Final

because by the time this post and people listen, it'll all be outdated, and we'll, we don't know who's going to advance right now to play the Predators, but we don't want to talk about ticket sales? Let's talk about ticket sales. Do you actually want to talk about ticket sales? Hell no. Well, I do want to, you know, I do want to talk about, But one thing, and I think that it's a natural starting point for us here.

And it's something that I think you captured really well in your writing about the team. And it's sort of the general vibe around them and the atmosphere at these games. You know, I went to a regular season game earlier this season. I haven't been any of these postseason ones. But it's been it's been so electric that it's been like kind of transferring through my laptop. I'm sitting at home here. And every time there's a big hit or a save or a goal, it's honestly like it's giving me goosebumps. The hairs in the back, my neck are standing up because it just seems.

seems so rowdy and I can kind of feel what's going on in there. So like, what was it like being at those games? I went back and watched Game 6 last night just to prepare for this. And I didn't realize how loud the, it's all your fault chance are when they come through the TV. Like, it made me feel like it was my fault.

Well, I mean, listen, you've got, what, like 300 pound football players just chugging copious amounts of beer at once. You've got the organist playing WWE theme music, which for nerds like myself is, is awesome to hear.

and then you've got 17,000 or so people just telling the opposing goalie that it's all his fault and that he sucks. And I was like, listen, I never really feel bad for these pro athletes unless there's an injury or something like that. Like, you know, the performance comes with the territory. But like after Jonathan Bernier gave up that early goal, which wasn't even his fault, it went directly off. Brandon Montour's skating in. And it felt like Montour was like targeting that goal. It was so perfectly executed that it honestly, it actually wasn't even Jonathan Bernier's fault. but it was like two minutes into his first start

and he's just having these 17,000 people just it's not one of those things where I always think it's kind of a joke when opposing crowds just chant another goalie's name for some reason and I don't think that would really even psych you out that much but like if you were just straight up getting told that it's your fault and you suck, that's like a whole other level.

It's great. I mean everything about that experience is so delightful I think. I mean from the fact that you pay $20 to stand on top of an old beat-up Chevy Malibu and smash it with a sled chamor with a cowboy hat. You pay an extra $10 and you get a cowboy hat. The, you know, the fang finger tradition they've been doing since the beginning where the psycho music kind of screeches before a power play and everyone, you know,

makes fangs with their fingers, which is like a really kind of silly thing to do. And I think everyone there thinks it's a little, little kitsy, but it's also kind of fun. I mean, like, I love the, just on their Jumbotron, like, their font is super goofy. It's almost like those old, like, sing-alongs where like the Mickey Mousehead would like bounce over the lyrics and stuff. It feels a little dated, but it's part of the experience. And yeah, I mean, I don't think the melding of kind of the Nashville country honky-tonged soul and hockey is anything new.

It's kind of been there since the beginning. But clearly, I mean, clearly everyone's noticing them more on a national, international level. And clearly, it's ratcheted up. I mean, the lineup of celebrities who have walked through that door. And, you know, they're not just kind of sitting there and hanging out. They're actually, like, they're putting them to work, you know? They're singing the national anthem or John L. Elefante from Kansas is coming and playing carry on Wayward Sun during the intermission on the band stage.

Or yeah, I mean, the predators, like Taylor Luan is, you know, walking down to the glass and he's throwing, he's the one throwing the catfish over on the ice. And like, you can't really argue when this, like, giant 300 pound pro bowl left tackle is doing that. And when he's leading the charge, like, how do you not take your cues from that as the rest of the city? Yeah, I was going to say, are you going to be the person that's going to stand up and tell him not to do that? Because I'm certainly not. Yeah, no, no, you can't, Taylor. I'm going to put my hand here and blind. No, of course. He just walked, he told me he walked in, and the guy at the security guard was like, what's in this ice box?

And he was like, a catfish. And they was like, okay, come on in. You know what? It does, it feels much more like a party or a college atmosphere more than a professional sporting event. And I say that in the best way possible. 100%. Yeah.

Well, I mean, especially hockey too, I think. I mean, you would probably get this in like a European soccer match. And I think some of the Europeans on the Predators, would even go as far as to make that comparison. I heard from a couple of the guys born in the continental U.S. or Canada, and they say it's more a little more like college football, and like Pecoranay is calling it a carnival. David Poil is saying it's on fire.

I mean, there's no shortage of descriptions to kind of characterize the atmosphere there. But it's definitely unlike anything in hockey. You know, I'm sure other buildings are just as loud, but at certain times. But, I mean, the way this once constructed, it was built for the NBA. Everyone's pretty much on top of you. So James Neal talked about that, I think, after game four or game three, that, I mean, that's just the way the noise travels in that building. I mean, it's a wonder they don't lead the league in too many men penalties.

Yeah, and I mean, listen, they're a really fun team with a great story. I mean, you see that in the way that they've captured the attention and imagination of everyone. And especially on hockey Twitter, it feels like they've become sort of the shared bandwagon team throughout this postseason, and that's only been ramping up as they've been winning more games and advancing. And I think that's going to continue regardless of who they play in the Stanley Cup final. But we alluded to the whole ticket sales thing and everything that's going out with the senators right now. I definitely don't want to talk about that. But I will say it's interesting to look back at some of the stuff people were writing and saying about Nashville as a hockey market

and whether it could viably sustain an NHL team as recently as like five or six years ago. And, you know, people will point to the fact like, listen, obviously fans are coming to these games now that they're advancing and winning and playing successful hockey. But that's kind of the point. It's the whole, if you build it, they'll come. I mean, just look at the attendance numbers for, like, the Blackhawks pre-in-post, Cain and Taves era. I was looking, and there were 29th in the league in average attendance from 2005 to 2007, and no one cared about them.

I feel like they weren't even being broadcast locally their games. And then all of a sudden, 2008, 2009, that year they finally break out and push the Red Wings and make the Western Conference final. They lead the league in average attendance, and that's just how it works. So I don't, I don't know. It's silly that. This whole debate is just like, I'm up in arms about it. I don't even know what to say about it, really.

I don't know. Yeah, I don't really buy that argument either. That, I mean, just because if the team's bad, it's not the fan's prerogative to shell out money for a product they don't want to watch. They can still be fans and the market can still support a team as far as fandom goes. Yeah, without people getting in seats. If they don't feel like that they want to spend their hard and money at that. I mean, listen, Nashville, it's been it's a boom town.

recently. It wasn't always that way. And I think back in the day, if you were to ask some fans, you know, whether they want to go down to Bridgestone Arena, it probably wouldn't have been the best use of their money. But that's not to say that the fandom didn't exist. And there was an extremely rabid fan base, you know, dating back from day one where they had the Pred Wings fans of, you know, all the Detroit migrants who came down with the auto industry from there. I mean, this is a fan base that's existed. Definitely not in as full of force as we see now. but yeah I mean the black hawks is the argument there I think right like before they drafted Tays and K and they were drawn 11 and 12,000 and you would not in your right mind say that that's not a good hockey market just because they weren't putting butts and seats

I think at a certain degree like you said yeah if you build it they will come and look it's all kind of coalesced at this time where I mean a couple years ago they weren't they weren't playing the same style under Barry Trots and I think a lot of that had to do with some of the pieces that they had there I mean Johansans

clearly the best number one center that they've ever had. I talked to David Poyle a little bit about that. They were never really in a position to draft one, I guess after Legwan probably. And some of the guys like Ellis and Ackholm coming up through the system, they weren't quite ready, I think, when Barry Trots was there. And, you know, as a result, they were kind of known as a defensive team, and then the switch flipped, and, you know,

they get a new CEO and COO in a couple years ago, and they kind of revamp the in-game entertainment experience, and they put a lot of money investing in a Bristol arena to make that place look nice every couple years and just everything kind of improves the on ice product, the off ice product, the way the team interacts with the community. It all kind of ratcheted up to a new level. And this is the fruit of it. I mean, this is what we're seeing. And Nashville for sure deserves all the praise and attention it's getting right now.

So, I mean, you've got a pretty good sense of this just being around the team and covering them. And I know that you got some good quality time with David Poil and wrote about him. I'm always fascinated about like with a guy like poyle for example I mean he's been around the game for so long and he'd be accurately described as a as a as a hockey guy or a hockey lifer but now he's been on this particular job for nearly 20 seasons now and you know you look at the general sort of trends that go on with the position he's in and I mean he's he's the longest tenure GM on the job right now but I mean just even some of his peers I think like 23 or 24 of them have been hired since 2010

And he was hired back in 1997, right? So it just kind of shows that there isn't, there's way less longevity for coaches for sure. But even for GMs, it's tough to keep that gig for that long of a time because pro sports are so cyclical. And eventually once the team reaches a downturn, someone's going to be blamed for it. And it's generally the coach and then the GM and so on and so forth. But with Poyle, I mean, he's gotten this, you know, this long leash and this loyalty to do this job. And now it's finally started to manifest itself in a winner. But I'm just curious with him because, you know, I don't think he was always considered to be this type of GM that he is now.

I mean, he's getting recognized as finalists for the GM of the year and everyone's heaping all this praise on him. But I think if we were having this discussion five, six years ago, we might have been talking about it differently. Like, did something, you know, systematically change with the way he approached doing this job and building this team? Or was it just one of those things where it just kind of takes time and eventually you kind of, you just, strike gold and you find something that works and you just keep going down that path. Probably a mix. I wish I had asked him kind of flat out. What do you think is different about the way you manage a team now compared to, I don't

know, five, ten years ago? I mean, clearly he's shown no reservations going after the whales when it comes to the trade market. I think it's awesome what he's been doing as far as the one-for-one deals go in recent years. But yeah, I don't know. That's a really interesting question. I mean, he's a guy who prides loyalty above all. else. He said something that was very fascinating to me. He said that in his ideal world,

you would never make any trades, that you would just draft the guys and maybe you sign him in free agents, but you never have to have that hard conversation where you tell a guy, hey, we're trading, we don't want you because we want this guy a little more. So, I mean, maybe that informs some of the reason why, you know, the culture there as to why, you know, maybe he's got a long leash in the past. But at the same time, these days, he's clearly shown a willingness to adapt. And I think, that's something that I think you've talked about this here in the past that you might not expect that from a guy who's been in the same job for as long as he's had.

Just the kind of willingness to evolve with the landscape and to go after guys who might be a little undervalued in their old home for non-off-the-ice reasons like Johansen and Suban. And to say, you know, hey, we think that your personality, that your talents will drive here in Nashville and we can kind of put you in the right position to thrive that you might not have had there in the past. So I think a lot of that, a lot of that savvy has come out in recent years. I'm not sure what it was in years past

that maybe we didn't talk about that. But I mean, they've always been a tremendous drafting team, I think. You know, getting guys like Pecoranane and a round that doesn't exist anymore, or Patrick Corniqu was the last pick of the draft. Or, you know, I mean, even, you know, taking a chance on a guy like Kimo Teaman in or Joel Ward coming out of the college,

Canadian college ranks. I think they've done a pretty good job of finding value at the bottom of the barrel when their payroll wasn't there. So, you know, maybe part of it's just they have more resources with the upswing that the city's going through right now, with the upswing that their payroll has had in recent years with the new ownership starting in, you know, in like 08 and then coming in with their kind of all that stuff, all the marketing stuff we talked about with Bridgestone. They sold out 41 out of 41 for the first time this year.

That might inform it as well that he just has a little more toys to play with it. And, you know, good on ownership for sticking with this guy. I don't think there's a person in hockey who's not happy for David Poil that he finally got his due here. Right. Yeah, I mean, obviously, as you mentioned, we rarely ever see trades like that, the one-for-ones in hockey. It feels like just such a conservative sport from the on-ice product to the way teams are assembled and the way GMs approach their job. And clearly, Poil has sort of the – he's been emboldened, but basically by how long he's been on the job. Like, it feels like he can kind of try and do something.

with this stuff and it's clearly paid off. I do think that there has been a little bit of whether he'd admitted or not. You mentioned adapting and how you'd need to do that to stay on the job for this long. And I think it's pretty clear that they've shifted whether it's been because of the coach going from Barry Trots to Peter Labelagelot and their systems or what have you to this more sort of fast-paced, skilled approach where they're taking all these chances on these undersized guys that are all of a sudden killing it for them, whether it's, you know, Kevin Fiala or Victor Ritz and or Ponti Sabor, you go on down the line,

and it's just all these guys that can just flat out play hockey and fly regardless of their size. And obviously they have big guys as well, but it's such a fun exercise just looking at how the team's built because it feels like it's so unique compared to some of these other teams that we see around the league. I mean, stylistically, it's perfectly encapsulated in the Suban for Weber trade, right?

And not just that. I look at, well, the other Weber that they brought in. I've been very impressed with the Yanuk-Weber Matt Orwin pairing. I mean, you look at him and you think, okay, the top four is going to play 50 minutes a night. We've got to do damage to the third pair, and they're sitting there with like a 65% expected goals or whatever.

And like 55% coursing in the playoffs. I mean, they've been doing very great work in a minimal role, and I think a big reason they work is because Weber is so good at moving the puck up. And he's, I mean, I'm here in D.C. reminds me a little bit of like a kind of a right-handed Nate Schmidt way where he can. and just, you know, he can get the puck up the ice and he can make plays and he just gets the puck out of the zone really quick.

And, and that's, you know, that's not a third pairing defenseman you'd see from a whole lot of teams a couple years ago. But, I mean, to just kind of round out the roster in that way, I think shows a little bit of attention to detail from Poyle on the margins like that. And, you know, that was one thing that came up just from talking people around the organization and Poyle laughed about this. He saw one article that kind of called him, I think it was called him a riverboat gambler. He was saying, like, well, I'd like to think that I have a little more attention to

detail, put a little more thought into that. And you talk to people in the organization. There's no one who's more detail than David Poil. I mean, he's walking around with like a legal pad every day that has a list of tasks for like everyone who's underneath him to complete. And that's ranging from, you know, go to this meeting about renovations for the practice facility to, you know, do research on this player or whatever. And I wrote this in the story to the point that Ray Shiro, when he was there, he would start sneaking looks at the list when David Boyle was in the bathroom because he was like so scared that he was going to miss anything and he always missed something because David just had everything there on that list. So I think, yeah, so I think the image of him, I think the image

that he's kind of cultivated for himself recently is this like run and gun, you know, throw all your chips on the table kind of gambler, humors him to a little bit, but at the same time I think he gets it. Because like you said, you don't go flipping Seth Joneses and Shay Weber's for a single return coming back a lot, not just in hockey in really any sport. I mean, one foreign trades are rare regardless in the landscape. Well, I mean, you're really putting. putting yourself on the line because if it doesn't work out you can like directly point to the lineage of where it went wrong so you get 100% in the line with it um i know you wanted to to share a little story about david poyle's uh dietary habits or or uh what he does at team functions

sure so i don't know how common this is within other organizations but uh Nashville has like pretty regular staff-wide barbecues where everyone from like the ticketing department to you know IT to David Poyle and up and up. They'll come out and they'll hang out and have a little barbecue. And they did this after they clinched against St. Louis, the Monday after, I think they clinched on a Sunday. That Monday, everyone shows up and, you know, it was shorts and t-shirt dress code because they had just won.

And they go up to the garage, the top of the garage, and they have a barbecue. And I was told that one thing happens specifically at every single of these things, or most of these things. And it's that David Poyle is at the dessert tent. and Paul Fenn specifically said it has to be chocolate. And that came to mind two things recently. One was that he was quoted saying how he was going to spend game seven tonight of Pittsburgh

Ottawa and he was just going to watch with a big bowl of chocolate ice cream. And then two was Shiro told me a story where they were coming down from the press box after a game during their inaugural season and they were going to see Barry Trots and the coaching staff. And David Poil stops and he goes in the wives room and race it. And they're like, okay, what the heck's happening right now? And David comes out and goes, they're out of chocolate chip cookies. He was very distraught. He's like, we need to go get them chocolate chip cookies in the wives room, which, you know, on the one hand, attention to detail.

On the other hand, dudes clearly got a sweet dude. Yes, it's clearly. That's an awesome story, Ben. Let's shift gears a little bit here to Peter Labuilette because there definitely is, with all these successful franchises, there needs to be a marriage between the guy putting the team together and the guy who's going to be using those players. otherwise it's not really going to work and um we mentioned that under barry trots in previous years they were playing this more uh methodical slow defensive hockey style and and under peer lavia they've definitely opened it up and i was reading this fascinating feature on him in the tennessee

and a few days ago and the common theme in it was this idea that you know what one thing he has going for him as a coach is that he's a master motivator and uh yeah you know we can we can't necessarily speak to it myself because he's never pumped me up for anything i mean his celebrations after goals on the bench look pretty exciting. So I'd want to make him feel that way. I'm sure if I was a player. But there's also this innate ability he seems to possess to get everyone to just buy into what he's selling with regards to his system and how he wants him to play.

And you definitely see that watching this Predators team on the ice where it is all about pace. And just whenever you get the puck, just go, go, go, regardless of who you are, whether you're a top line player, a top-parrying guy, or whether you're a third-fourth minor, it seems like they play the same way throughout, regardless of their skill level or what their role in the team is. And I think that that is something that is definitely stuck out to me watching them. And it's, you know, when we discuss coaches in this league, it's so difficult to actually properly evaluate them because you can, you can make judgments based on who they're playing

and how often they're playing them or whether they're using the right combinations. But there is all this stuff behind the scenes or all this groundwork that needs to go into it before we even see them hit the ice that is such a big part of the job that we just don't really often get to see yeah that article by joe rexroyd i think was phenomenal yeah um yeah it got at a central tenant i think of what people in national or players in national like about playing under peter um which is that that motivational styles remember talking to verne fiddler who you know has been scratched a decent amount of the playoffs before the injuries and he was saying like he goes home and is all jacked up and he knows he's not playing that night but he goes home and like man i'm fired up

right now because of the speech that this guy gave. I know at least a couple times during the season he's had his video staff cut like, you know, rocking, pump-up video highlights set to like thumping music and he likes to play those in the locker room just to get everyone jazzed up and make sure it was like everyone's included and everyone's featured at least once. So, I mean, that's kind of a silly way.

But I remember, I think it was, I think P.K. did a podcast with Bill Simmons recently where he was talking about Peter and was, yeah, kind of brought this. up that in hockey, to a certain degree, a lot of it's just kind of up to the whims of the players and kind of the flukiness of the sport. So maybe motivation and maybe getting guys to buy in to the system, it takes a larger percentage of a coach's responsibility than it might in other sports. And Peter clearly has that in Nashville. Kind of what emphasizes it for me is the way that

as a group they can kind of toggle back and forth between playing that go, go, go style. And I mean, you saw in the Chicago series, I think, they at times. would be just as stifling in the neutral zone with the one three one as Ottawa could be and and they seem very good at being able to kind of flip the script based on the situation in the game and I think a lot of that probably stems from Peter yeah and and like in just in terms of the system and it's it is sometimes so tough to separate you know what a player's actual true ability or true talent level is or compared to what maybe the coaching staff is asking him to do

and you see yeah with with this predator's team especially with the blue line like something I really look at is breakouts and zone exits. And, you know, obviously, not every time is going to result in this clean, crisp pass that's going to lead to a odd man scoring opportunity that they're under the ice. But

it does seem like all the guys, whether it is P.K. Suban and Matias Ekholm or Matt Erwin and Yanik Weber, like they have this mandate to do something purposeful with the puck whenever they have it, even if they're under pressure where they're not just going off the, off the boards and out and just kind of relenting

possession like that, they're actually making a concerted effort into an open sheet of ice where one of their speedier forwards can go and get it. And that's sort of where the coaching component ties into it because I'm sure that, you know, you'd watch P.K. Subban under a guy like Michelle Therian, and it was clear that at times he was being told to do a certain thing that wasn't conducive to the way he really optimally should be playing. And then he comes to Nashville, plays under a guy like Peer de Labelot, who lets him do his thing. And all of a sudden, the results are kind of speaking for themselves. Yeah, I remember talking to Ryan Johansson.

I think I was there in late September writing about PK. And we were talking to Ryan about just the adjustment coming to Nashville, and he said a big difference was that Peter was very encouraging to let him be himself. And you can talk about the old coach that he had in Columbus. And I think clearly there was a lot of tension there and a lot of friction between Ryan and torts. But coming down to Nashville, I think he was very happy with the way that they just kind of embraced him. and he can kind of come off as a little laid back and that maybe rubs a certain section of hockey folk the wrong way.

But, I mean, clearly there's a lot of talent there, and I think that just kind of speaks to Peter's ability to tap into that in different personalities. But, yeah, to get back to what you're saying about the defense, I mean, I'm a little bum that we don't get to watch Anaheim and Nashville's defense up against each other anymore. Just, I mean, that was just breakout porn there. That's just the way both of those,

the way both of those teams were able to exit the zone. I mean, watching guys like Montor and Fowler on that end. And then there was one play, I think, in the second period of game six against Anaheim, where I think like Echholm got the puck on the left. I don't even remember this. He got the puck on the left point. And then he just kind of like danced into the middle with his back in the slot.

It was like very Suban-esque in a way. And then he gets below the dot, and then he cuts up. And then he winds up at the top of the circle, firing a shot between two guys and gets a chance just because it's hockey. And it, like, you know, hits a run on the ice and rolls to the net. And I don't know, maybe he's been a little Suban influence there, but like that's, I mean, that's a very freelancing play for Matias Eckholm to make. And I think that's totally encouraged within that system that if you do what you feel, it puts us in the best chance to score. And whether that's, you know, defenseman pinching, whether that's Suban, you know, or Ellis coming in on the right side and reading the play and jumping up and trying to keep the puck in the zone or, you know, whether that's a guy like Eckholm doing something that you might not expect and really showing.

off his offensive ability in a way that I feel like the larger audience may not talk about him. That's been a real great pleasure in these playoffs, just to kind of see that D and the way, the freedom that they have to make place. Yeah, well, that's going to be the big storyline. I mean, spinning it forward to whoever they're playing in the Stanley Cup final, it's going to be whether this blue line can compensate for the injuries they've had up front, especially down the middle. And the thing is that, you know, if anyone is capable of doing it,

it feels like this team is uniquely positioned to do so, because, is, listen, if they're going to go, if they're going to have two of Suban at Colm Ellis and Yossi on the ice for like 50 to 52 of the 60 minutes they're playing, it's a pretty good starting point regardless of who you have up front. And obviously all those guys can chip in offensively, but can also just make life so much easier for the guys they're passing it too. So just seeing whether they're actually capable of bridging that gap or whether it's going to be a bit too much to ask for them is going to be like ultimately what I think determines how this Stanley Cup final is going to play out.

Yeah, I mean, because guys, God bless Colton Sissons, he's not getting a hat trick every single game. I mean, Fisher coming back will help, but I thought that, I mean, in game six, Anaheim whoppingly outshot them for most of the game. And I thought that they had a couple chances where they were able to enter the zone up the middle of the ice a little too easily than you like. So I think that's going to be a big storyline, especially if it's Pittsburgh. Because, I mean, with the D, that Pittsburgh's been icing and the way they've been able to compensate

for the injuries on the back end in the playoffs, it's going to kind of be the reverse. I think in Nashville a little bit, that Nashville's strength is the D, and they're the ones that are propping up the forwards, and then it's maybe a little bit of the reverse in Pittsburgh, where they don't have to rely on their D as much because of the great forwards that they have. But at the same time, I mean, some of the guys that they do have left, and some of the people they've inserted in the lineup, I was impressed with Goudreau, was impressed with Alberg. And I think, did I pronounce that right? Auburn. Yeah, I think it's Aberg. Aberg. Aberg.

Okay, Aberg. Okay. Aberg. Okay. Wonderful. wonderful name. I mean, they're clearly okay with chipping the puck out of the zone as well

and letting those guys go get it. And I think in turn, if you get the puck deep like that and you get control below the goal line, that allows your D to also jump up in a way that's, you know, they're not necessarily carrying the puck in the zone and driving the rush like that,

but they're the ones that are kind of trailing and kind of pick their spots and pick their lanes. And, you know, all four of those guys in their top four are, I think, excellent at making reads and getting into space and getting, you know, shots through lanes.

Well, I mean, stylistically, it's a fascinating. same match of if it is against the penguins because it does feel like there are some parallels to especially that penguins team last season that was just so effective with how they seemed to kind of thrive off of playing this frantic pace that the other team just couldn't seem to calibrate to or adjust to themselves where they were just like it was it's one thing to kind of skate fast but it's another thing to play fast and it seemed like they would never kind of stop and take the puck behind their net and try to regroup and make these you know slow methodical

decisions it would always just be as soon as anyone gets the puck just turn around and fling it up in the air and just use your speed to go and get it and the predators do have a little bit in that a little bit of that in them so kind of seeing those two teams go head to head would be i think a fascinating stylistic matchup definitely and they're you know they're catching pittsburgh in a very different time than they were last year for sure um so yeah i'd be interested to see i'd be interested to ask some penguins um if they see a little bit of themselves let me ask you something about Nashville though on their power play do they have another entry other than a drop pass Man. Their power play has been worrisome all season, not just in these playoffs. It's interesting because I feel like we generally look at, you know, shot totals and whether it's for defensemen or forwards, and you just assume that having a higher shot rate is always a good thing. But I think that in the case of defensemen, sometimes, you know, taking those lower percentage shots from the corners of the point aren't necessarily.

the best tactic, especially on the power play. And the predators are so reliant on their defensemen to make stuff happen for them on the man advantage. Maybe that has a little bit to do with it. I don't know. I know that a guy like Tyler Delo, for example, has definitely illustrated some issues that they have schematically with it. So I don't know if there's anything you can do at this point of the season with that.

It might be something that they're going to have to look into heading into next year, but it definitely is something to keep an eye on. Yeah, I don't know nearly enough about hockey stat. I was reading Delo's feed recently as well. And that kind of got me thinking that, and you know, watching game six, they had that five-minute power play after Richie's major. And I don't think they got a single shot on goal out of that one. I think a lot of their problems were just because, you know,

the ducks could stack up at the blue line. And it was just very hard for them. The enter the zone when you, your forward comes up, and then he drops it back to a guy in the middle, who then has the option to drop it back again to two other guys. And they just kind of sit in there like, okay, we'll wait for you then. Either you hard rim it, or we get a stick on it when you try to enter the zone. So I don't know.

Yeah, it seemed to me that, you know, when you're trying to direct everything through the D at the top of the zone, you've got to find a way to get it in and then get it back to them. Because otherwise, you're just not going to be able to get set up. Yeah. I kind of want to have a little bit of a discussion here about P.K. Subban, because it definitely does feel like, I don't know, you'd think at this point, people would just kind of appreciate what's going on right now,

but there's still this weird pushback now where it's like, yeah, of course P. K.C. Subant's being successful and he looks great and Nashville, but that's only because he doesn't have nearly as much on his plate and he's not the best guy on this team and it's like listen i love roman yosi i love what he does i love what he capable of he's such a modern day nchl defenseman but for someone to think that pkis uben isn't the best defensive on this team just blows my mind i mean listen he's he plays the most against the other team's best guys and he does the best in those minutes like i don't know what other classification you could possibly have to determine whether a guy is a number one defenseman or not but it seems like he's checking all the boxes

Yeah, and the argument, I think, for anyone above him, is not Yosey. It's at home, right? No, I've seen a lot of, I've seen a lot of well, actually, Roman Yosey's their best defenseman, just because he's, you know, he's stacking up the points, and when he does something well, it does look so dynamic and highlight real worthy, but I think there's a big segment of the game that people are just kind of willingly overlooking because it doesn't fit the story that they want to tell. Sure, sure. I mean, number one, who cares? They have two top pairs. Yes. they're tremendous to watch

number two yeah I mean you look at the matchups that Pke and Echhol with that to get in his playoffs I mean they're going up they went up against Taves they went up against Erisenko they went up against Gensloff and did a tremendous job against them I think they're at I think they're even straight goal differential

together is like nine to three they're at like 54% coursey four and Ellison Yosi are right around I think 50% I mean their course is pretty low I think it's well below 50 if I'm not mistaken in the playoffs You know, their goal differential is like 10 to 10 or something.

So, I mean, they've been all right. But I think just, I mean, the matchups that Suban and Eckholm are getting, once you factor those in, it's, it's very hard to look at the numbers and look at the body of work they put together and not say that they're, they've been doing the best job there. And yeah, I mean, maybe the point totals aren't there for PK. He's still leading the team by far in power play assists. And he's still a very dangerous shot. I think you saw it in games three and four there in Nashville against Anaheim. I've been impressed in particular with the way he's been able to kind of wait out some of the shot blocking that, you know, it's when you're T and one up from deep, especially in this day and age, it's hard to get the puck through the lane.

I think P.K has done a very good job at just kind of waiting and waiting and, you know, almost baiting the, you know, F1 or F2 on the penalty kill into making a move and then, you know, being able to get the shot through there. So, I mean, just someone like that, I think, just kind of shows his hockey savvy. but yeah I mean in the defensive zone like okay he's he's not you know I don't know what is the argument like what's the argument there that Yosey has more points it's it's it's super bizarre to me because the way people characterize PKK Zuban as a player sometimes makes me think that they actually haven't really watched PK Suban play hockey because like he's characterizes this offensive defenseman who's sometimes a bit too risky and you know sometimes he definitely does try to do some stuff with a puck that that might be ill-advised

but you take those potential turnovers with the fact that exceedingly large percentage at a time he's making something happen out of nothing. And then on the other end of things, like he's easily the best defenseman at, you know, protecting his own blue line and making the other team dumped a puck can or forcing turnovers. So I just don't see this argument where he's a defensive liability. Like it doesn't match up in the eye test and it definitely doesn't match up in the numbers.

And I don't know. I think I'm lost for why people still don't just recognize. recognize the talent he is and what he's contributing to this team. But, you know, it's sometimes I guess that it's just tough for people to admit that they've been horribly wrong. We're going to get into, we're going to talk about Pecorina here, an example, and I'm going to talk about how I was wrong about him heading into the playoffs. So it's, it all just comes to the territory.

Like, it's in this job, sometimes you're going to be right, sometimes you're going to be wrong. You just got to kind of, with new information as it present itself, you adjust accordingly. Maybe it's, I don't know, maybe it's just that lingering urge to knock P.K. down to Peg. I don't know. Well, he's having too much fun out there. Alex. He's having too much fun.

David Boyle, he and I talked about that, about the dancing thing. I think his quote was like, he's running around like a madman out there. Like you don't think he's jazzed up. He's going to, he's about to like knock everyone over on his own team when he's going around and like, you know, buzzing around during warmups and all of a sudden he's dancing and that's an issue. He dances like every game. I mean, Pecorane is, you know, flipping the puck on his stick and catching it behind his back. No one's angry about that. Yeah. Well, like, is there any argument of this point to be made against P.K. Subban being like the clear runaway favorite to be the face of the NHL as a whole. Like it's, does anyone else have a better combination of just like

being charismatic and also just embodying everything that's fun and good about the game and just the way he plays and how dynamic he is and how effective he is? Like, I don't know, it just seems like he'd be like the obvious choice. I don't know. Yeah. And the, the question there is, is how many people want that there though, right? Like, I think fans, we all want that right but like clearly there's a there's a contrast there between what you know the audience at large will embrace and what people inside hockey will embrace yeah which is which is a larger conversation in itself right but like i mean suban suban's suan's going to be on e60 this sunday on a big special that they've spent like close to a year filming i don't know if many other

players are getting that kind of treatment i mean he's the best like you mentioned that uh when he was on the bill simons podcast for example just how well-spoken he is and just every like every like he's such a good ambassador for the game and he was talking about potentially being a commissioner one day and I'd love to see that happen like it just he seems to have great ideas about the sport and where it should be headed and what they should be doing and I'd like to hear and see more of that and I think that that's the issue people really have with this league in terms of how it's not marketing and it's stars and really taking advantage of how fun the product is right now it's like we never really get to see uh those types of

personalities just kind of fully out in the open just expressing themselves and I don't know I'd like to see more of that. And I think a lot of other people would too. But dancing as a distraction, Dimitri. Yeah, you don't want to be clowning around out there. Okay. Peca Rene, I mentioned him earlier. Listen, heading into the playoffs,

I feel like a lot of people, myself included, were pointing to him as the X factor and for negative reasons because it looked like this Predator's team was destined for greatness. They had no real flaws throughout their lineup, but then you'd always kind of circle back to Peckernet and go, well, the past two years, he's had a 909 and a 906 say a percentage in their in their playoff runs.

And if he can't really hold up, that's going to ultimately do them in because we know how reliant teams are on goaltending play in the playoffs. And I mean, he has a 941 to save percentage in these 16 games. So to say that he's done his job would be not doing it justice, obviously. Like whether it can continue in this final series remains to be seen, but obviously we need to give him some love here because he has played. out of his mind so far. Totally. I think before the playoffs, I mean,

if you were to say, who's the most likely candidate to get, like Mark Andre Fleuried, which is to say, replaced by a younger guy who just gets hot. Like,

you probably say Pecker, right? I mean, you see Soros has done a very good job this year. He's very clearly the goal of the future there, you know, whether they split a little bit more next year or I think Peca's contract has, has two more years or one more year.

So, I mean, Saras is clearly the guy there moving forward. But, Yeah, I mean, all credit to Pega. I think it's rare when you see a guy of this age with that kind of history. You would expect that the way things have trended in the past couple years, that it might be a little tougher sledding for him.

But he's been incredible. I think he's their favorite for the cons might at this point, unless you could give it to an entire top four defense, which, you know, if you can't give it an offensive line in football, as much fun as that would be. So it may be a little similar. So, yeah, I think it goes to Becca. And I think down there, there's just so much respect for a guy who's, you know, been around it and remembers, you know, he was around when the team was going to get sold.

And, you know, he's been there. He's kind of the last remaining link from the old guard, if you will, unless you got Vernon Fiddler. You know, like I said, you know, the legendary story of Ray Shiro and Yanni Keklein and going up into the hindrilins of Olu Finland and finding him in the sub-zero day and drafting him in the eighth round. It just kind of adds to a little bit of the aura around him. But, you know, he's also, like, legendary good dude, Pecorane, like, you know, one of the, along with Barry Trots and Shea Weber, you know, one of the, I think, foremost advocates for best buddies down there. And, you know, it does things like let's UC Soros drive his car and stay in his house during the World Cup.

And I think it's very, very open about, you know, having his successor there and is very welcoming to him. So I think there's a lot of just happiness down there for the way he's playing. But to say that anyone could have expected a 940. the playoffs? No, no, no, no, no. Well, it's funny how it's turned into sort of this, like, sticking point of, like, analytics versus old school, or is it even an analytical thing to be, like, to have been skeptical of whether Renee would be able to hold up this postseason? Like, it's just purely a general, safe percentage thing where he hasn't been that good in their previous postseason runs, and his play has been on the downward swing for the past couple of years,

and it seemed like a fair question to raise beyond, it wasn't, like, it wasn't, it wasn't, it's being portrayed as this analytics thing, but I don't. really think that that had any to do with it at all. Yeah, and I mean, there have been a couple times where it seems like he's been caught a little bit out of position and allowed for some sort of easy backdoor tapins or, you know, maybe a soft goal from, I think the Perry goal in game three was it, was a little soft. We're just kind of banked off him and, you know, had another one go off his head in game six. But, you know, the totality of the work has been, has been stellar.

I mean, he's an engine back there as far as breaking the puck out with his puck handling skills. when he's not playing it outside of the trapezoid and should have gotten a call. But, I mean, he has three assists, which I think is one short of the all-time record for a single postseason, at least since they started keeping that stat. And, yeah, I just,

I don't know whether it's, you know, voodoo or dipping in the fountain of youth or whatever, or it's probably just a hot goalie getting hot. But, I mean, National has done a pretty good job of limiting shots, just because the possession is going the other way. And I know that was an adjustment a little bit at first that, you know, when they were playing a little more of their defensive style with the personnel they had under Barry, he was asked to do a lot more.

And, you know, you heard that here in D.C. with Holby that, you know, in years past, that, I mean, it's an adjustment to go from getting a lot of work to getting not a lot of work because it's hard to get in a rhythm or harder to get in a rhythm that way, especially when you're someone who likes to be as active as Peca is as far as, you know, being aggressive and handling the puck and, you know, coming out to challenge. And I was talking to Chris Mason, the former goalian analyst for them. And, you know, he was saying that's what he's seen a little bit more in Peckle lately, is a little bit more calmness, a little bit more willing to let the game come to him and just kind of stay back. And there were a couple chances where, I mean, he's gotten, he's gotten real deep and has been real deep in his crease. And I think he's been very patient when the puck's been around the net, especially for as much as Anaheim was, you know, trying to get in his grill and trying to, trying to bump him and kind of throw him off there. I think a lot of it just kind of stems from that serenity they seems to have.

maybe the people in the organization say that's that's something that maybe it was missing a little bit or at least, you know, took it a little bit of an adjustment once Peter Lobby-Lay came in and they started playing this way. I do think there's a little bit of a nice marriage going on here between his style and what the team in front of him is able to do, where, I mean, you mentioned how active he likes to be and how aggressive he is, and I definitely think that at times, even when he's going really well and stopping a large percentage of shots, like you see that, especially as that Ducks series went along, I thought he started getting a bit sloppier in terms of how far he was sliding out and losing his crease sometimes.

And I think the guys in front of him do a really good job of both clearing up rebounds and also preventing a lot of that east-west action with passing for the other team. So, you know, sometimes like I think it was the first goal, I believe, that the duck scored in that game six where Rene just completely slid out, slid out and Getslap was able to just pass it across his body for a wide open tap and Dandre, Kasha. And, you know, that's when Picker Renee is not going well, that's what you see a lot. but it feels like he's been able to limit that a little bit and the team in front of him has done a good job of helping him out when he has.

So it's all worked out and can't complain about a 9-41 regardless of how he's getting it done. One final thing before we get out of here. Philip Forsberg. Are we ever going to reach a point where the first thing people respond with when you say something about him isn't some sort of Martin E.rat-related quip? I was thinking about that just from a D.C. perspective. Like how much of that do you think is people kind of getting, getting their pleasure from needle in Washington a little bit for making that move

because I mean you you look at it and you project on the line like okay they have let's say they have Forzburg let's say Forisberg became what he became let's say you have to start paying him six million do you make the move for Oshy for instance maybe because I think they wanted to move on from Brower but do you bring Justin Williams it like I don't know what how does the complexion of the team change obviously it's a it's a massively one-sided trade it was a fleecing but I was just curious, you know, how much from a national perspective you think people might just be getting a little pleasure out of, out of needling Washington for just kind of like one more thing that like now, now he's in the final two. Yeah. Well, it's funny how it works.

I mean, obviously so much of it is hindsight. I mean, at the time, like, I was pretty clearly thought it was an ill-advised trade from Washington's perspective because even though there were some mixed feelings on Philip Ford wasrick as a prospect, considering we still hadn't really seen him at the NHL level, it seemed like a very kind of reactionary panic move on George McPhee's part. But at the same time, I look at a team like Ottawa, for example, right now, and we'll see how this game seven winds up playing out for them. But, you know, they made a sort of similar, maybe less impactful trade where they traded away a really good prospect than Jonathan Dullen for Alex Burroughs. And they made a couple of those trades where they were just trying to get guys to come in

and help out and patch up their bottom six. And all of a sudden that really elevated the team's performance. and, you know, now they're making this impressive playoff run, and you just never really know how the postseason is going to wind up shaking out or what's going to happen. And I feel like sometimes we do take it a little bit for granted or just assume that prospects are always going to pan out and reach their ceiling and overlook the fact that, you know, winning games is ultimately the most important thing.

And if you have a chance to compete right now, you should probably try to do so. So, you know, it didn't wind up working out for them. And I still think it was a bad trade even without the benefit of hindsight. but like you do need to keep a little bit out of that perspective sometimes with this sort of stuff yeah totally um from what i remember i mean i think the reaction was like okay like getting irrat and ladda fine not for forsburg right like that it was the fact that it was this guy that they were given up and clearly it's come it's gonna be gonna haunt people as far as long as they keep bringing it up but i mean i know you're you're a huge fan of the phil forsburg creative zone entry club

oh my goodness he's a wizard out there in the neutral zone that's amazing the the the the obber goal aberg whatever pontius pontius his goal yes um in the third period of game six i mean forsburg he's on one hand is chipping it to himself off you know he just kind of nudges the puck ahead and chips it into the glass like he's i don't know like a casino worker like shoveling chips or something and then goes and gets it and disrupt lindholm is able to kind of you know hip-check lindholm a little bit and disrupt him off the puck and that starts the entire goal and it's just because he is so good. Like you said, getting through the neutral zone and then being able to, in creative ways,

get that puck deep, you know, without giving it up, without a hard rim, without, you know, giving up possession. And then just kind of go punt it down. I think there was that cutback movie. Maybe it was in game five or something where he beat someone wide. And then just kind of, you tweeted about this, right? It was the way he cut back in the middle and then kicked a puck to himself in front of Gibson to deak him out. And he didn't score, but you're watching and you're like, how does this?

happen at that kind of speed and that kind of traffic. Yeah, it's a combination of a bunch of different skills, but like, you know, a guy like I wrote earlier this season about Artemi Panarin, for example, and he does this remarkably well where he seems, you know, he has the ability to do so, but he also has the mentality or the creative mindset to sort of see stuff other people don't when he has the puck. So he just kind of tosses the puck gently to an open space and then goes and gets it. And he either, the defender basically, because he's following the play, either has to, you know, hook him and, take him down and go to the box or two minutes,

or just let him go by and give him the advantage. And you see a lot of that with Forsberg, where he puts defenders in such compromising positions just by seeing stuff they're not necessarily capable of seeing at that quick of a speed, and then just going and getting the puck and doing something with it. And he's been remarkable to watch and so productive. And it's scary to just look at how old he is right now and to project that he could conceivably keep getting better

and just what that's going to look like when he does reach that level. Oh, I mean, you have a top one. for the next six however many years of Forrestberg, Robertson, Johansson, I think, whether they're 22, 24 and 24. Yep. And their back ends all under contract next year. I mean, they're going to roll it back, and they're going to roll it back really well, I think. Yeah. And even if Renee falls apart or stops playing well, you know, we mentioned UCSarros seems like he's like probably the best, the best current NHL goalie prospect that's not, you know, playing full-time in the league.

I mean, he was their backup this year, but he's not, he hasn't taken the job for himself yet. and it seems like he's going to be perfectly capable of doing that as well. So there's really no holes on this team moving forward, which makes, you don't want to take this run for granted because there can be injuries and if we're seeing events and guys can all of a sudden just stop playing as well as they've played so far. But at the same time, they do see him as well positions

as we've seen a team in a number of years. Yeah, and if you're going to trust the GM to maybe patch up some holes in your forward core as well, get a little secondary scoring, I think you probably put a little faith in David Boyle. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to tie this conversation full circle, man.

This is why you're a professional. Well, that's a little. I don't know about that. Are you working on any stuff that you can share with the listeners? Or is it all top secret until you finally release it? No, just waiting for the cup final, to be honest. Just trying to see who comes out tonight and then we'll mobilize. And, you know, things are little funky with magazine deadline schedule.

So I'm just kind of floating here and there. my liver's gearing up for games three and four in Nashville, and we'll see what happens. I spent all of yesterday shelling out way too much money for an emergency passport because someone stole my other one, which pretty much guarantees, I think that Pittsburgh's going to win tonight. So, you know, I guess that was a reverse jinx in that way. But I don't know, I'm curious to see you comes out of that game.

Storylines, I'm sure will abound, like we said, whether it's Pittsburgh's forwards versus Nashville D or whether it's like the high-flying preads versus the boring one-three-one trap. Well, keep with a great work, man. I honestly, I'm not saying this just to butter you up. I mean, you've already been on the show, so it doesn't matter at this point. But I rarely say this. I rarely share other people's work.

But whenever you put something out there, I feel obligated to get as many eyeballs on it as I can because just the way you spin a story with your words and paint the picture is remarkable, in my opinion. So I'm really glad you came on the show and took the time to chat and keep up the good work. Appreciate that, man. I'm sure that everyone has turned this off by now because they're really. board of me. But for those who have gotten the end, thank you for that praise. All right. We'll talk soon. See you, buddy. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash

HockeyPedioCast.