The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 174: The Interlude

Episode Date: June 13, 2017

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss whether there's anything the rest of the league can glean from the Penguins (1:33), Crosby's ascension up the list of the game's all-time greats (6:47), everything that goes into the Conn Smythe voting process (12:46), the possibility of Ilya Kovalchuk making the trek back to North America (23:18), and what type of movement we could see ahead of the Expansion Draft (28:31).  Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Wow, that felt good to say. It's been a while. Yeah, man, I survived Nashville, so I beat the odds. I made it home. I was going to say, well, you survived the full season and Nashville. I feel like that's something to be proud of for yourself. Nashville was like an Everest at the end of that season, though, because there's a lot of potholes you could fall in and have a little bit too much fun,

but I managed to make some good decisions. Well, it's been too long since we've done this. I mean, listen, I know your face is quite literally cemented in the Hockey-Pedocast Mount Rushmore, but I don't want you to abuse the fact that your position's safe in our hearts by not coming around these parts anymore. I feel like we haven't done a show since the trade deadline, I believe. So I'm glad we're remedying that right now. Wow, I know we tried a couple times and failed during the playoffs. Yeah, it's so tough recording these shows during the playoffs.

I always get asked by the, you know, the 1% of the devoted listeners who are like, when's the next show? And it's really tough because, especially when there's games, going on like every day as soon as you say something by the time you posted it's so dated that i i found it tough to do shows every so i was like trying to do them between series or when there were these extended breaks but uh now we're definitely have a bit more time to to actually kind of discuss and analyze stuff sounds good i'm in okay so we've had a bit of time here to let the uh the stand the cup final sink in and ruminate on it and i think that for myself the most interesting thing when

something big like this happens in sports we see so many different uh angles and takeaways being taken by people depending on their perspective of how they viewed the events and it's kind of like a Rorschach test where everyone can look at the same thing unfold and have a different interpretation of how it happened and what's responsible and the reason I bring this up is because one of the more pervasive storylines I saw online was the discussion after the fact about this penguin's roster and the way it was assembled and the way they played and you know we hear so often about how the NHL is a copycat league and you know if you work under the assumption that that's true, then it would stand to reason that the 29 other teams would be

watching and taking notes and trying to sort of impart something they see in the way these teams were playing and constructed into their own rosters. And I'm, I don't know, like, do you think that there's anything to take away from this? Or is it just like, is it more of a one-off where, listen, the Penguins have two of the best, what, three or four players of their generation and they had really good goaltending and some good fortune and everything came together and that's it might not be the most satisfying takeaway but it's probably the more realistic one well you know the the one takeaway maybe is that you don't necessarily have to have the kind of blue line we all think to get through and obviously you need a lot of other supporting

factors around that if that is the case but i'm still kind of amazed that that they got that that survived that gauntlet i guess without chris letang the entire time and you know we saw especially early in the cup final the first few games against nashville really had a lot of struggles with their defensemen, but they did have that great goaltending and obviously the great forwards that largely have been in place for a decade there and still found a way to win that cup. So maybe if you're a team that doesn't have that stud,

you might be able to trick yourself into believing you don't need them, although what 10 of the last 12 cup winners have had, either a Chris LaTang or a Duncan Keith or Drew Dowdy, you know, back to Needamire and Pronger, you know, Zadano Chara when the Bruins won. But, you know, maybe you can find a way by committee every once in a while if you have some other ingredients working for you. Yeah, yeah, I mean, obviously having, you know, Crosby Malkin,

and not even to mention the way, you know, Kessel or Gensel played, for example, definitely helped bridge that gap and the goaltending was a big key. But I think it's interesting because, like last year's version of the Penguins, for example, I thought was a much more, you know, practical lesson for other teams to draw takeaways from because they were playing a certain way under Mike Johnson, and then Mike Sullivan comes in and all of a sudden freeze them up to play a faster-paced, more open-ended 5-on-5 brand of hockey, and we saw the results take off. And it's funny because I think we saw a little bit of that with this Predators team itself,

some of those takeaways where especially they were, it seemed to be, you love utilizing that Alley-Upe law play that the Penguins had made famous last year. and you always see this stuff as something, you know, becomes, becomes in trend. And then HL all of a sudden teams start to incorporate in their own games. But I think teams might, you know, go down the wrong path here if they buy too much into the fact that the penguins might have, you know, solved shot quality or proven that you don't need good defensemen because, like we said, yeah, I guess you don't need

a number one defenseman if you can have Crosby and Morgan taking the puck up for you instead. Right. And, you know, both of those teams, you know, tried to use a lot of speed in their game, and I think at times did. I mean, when the final had its best sort of sequences, you know, most exciting sequences, it was usually a lot of back and forth and creating those chances. But, you know, I'm with you. I don't think that this is a trend setting cup, but I think it's a lot more of one where,

you know, it's a team really marking its place in history, you know, a group of players that had a lot to play for kind of in a much deeper sense and finding a way to get through. you know, it wasn't probably the prettiest thing to go through. I mean, even looking back at that Washington series where Pittsburgh was underwater for a huge portion of it, and let's face it, the Mark Andre Fleury, probably don't win that series and get a chance to put Matt Murray back in the net and have kind of their second push through the third and fourth rounds. But, you know, it's pretty, it was pretty cool to watch, I thought still. I mean, there's not going to be a carbon copy in this sport, I don't think, too often just because of injuries and,

and how luck does play into what happens. But I think we'd all still agree, including Mike Sullivan, who actually gave a pretty nice shout out to the advanced stats about the importance of wanting to shoot your opponent and spend more time in their zone. It's such an obvious concept, but still gets some pushback and some corners. But he was saying even at that point when they weren't doing that, that that was obviously something that they tried to do and would seek to do.

And look, they won their cup last year, you know, by having three really good lines. being able to do that to opponents and have a lot of success that way yeah yeah no for sure um yeah i don't i don't know in terms of other interesting sort of storylines to come from the stand the cup i thought that you know the crosbie narrative is a is a is a fascinating one because he had a he had an interesting year where you know as it started and progressed there was this side plot going on with him versus mac david and this new wave of young players coming into the league and whether you know hit him and his generation were ready to kind of pass the torch and relinquish his de facto status is the league's top dog and

but David is obviously, it goes without saying an absolute force that's unparalleled. And I think we could do an entire separate podcast as some are focusing on what the hell opposing defenders are going to try to do to slow him down heading into the next season. But for Crosby, I mean, it does really feel like it's shifting into this stage. And maybe it's unfair considering he hasn't even turned 30 yet and still has so many more chapters of his career to write. But it does feel like it's sort of shifting to the stage where the debate is more so about how Crosby's positioning himself

amongst the NHL's all-time greats and the best players to ever play, versus those aforementioned specific contemporaries that are coming for him right now in today's game. Well, I would think, certainly, next year, you're going to hear some more talk about, you know, is he being passed yet or has he been passed? Because this year, I guess he arguably was,

you know, McDade had won the consmite tonight, or sorry, the conspite, Arras. Yes. And I expect we'll win the Hart Trophy, you know, a couple weeks' time now in Vegas. but, you know, I still think Crosby had a pretty impressive season, missing the start of it, you know, with the concussions and then to lead the league in goals for just a second time in his career, you know, this deep into his career, you know,

is a pretty good accomplishment. And, you know, we still measure the great players by winning. And, you know, look, Edmonton almost got to the third round this year. You know, Nick David did his part there too. But, you know, Crosby still has the mantle, but I don't know for how long. and when you start to add up, especially what he's added in the last 12 or 13 months, I mean, it does, it changes the conversation about, I think, where he ends up historically. I mean, even to get to three cups, you know, he's, he's matched those Blackhawks teams.

He's only one behind Gretzky as a player. I mean, there's all kinds of stuff you can start to unpack with that. And I think everyone kind of does realize that that, that C-shift is happening. I mean, at some point, it could be as soon as next year, you know, the established powers from the salary cap era are just not going to be seen the same way. You know, LA's had some couple of rough years. I'm not sure what Chicago is going to look like after they do their maneuvering here to get under the salary cap again. Even Pittsburgh is going to suffer some losses and, you know, might not be what we consider one of the best teams in the league next year, although I'm not willing

to turn the page on them that quickly. I still think that that's going to be a very good team. But it's going to be the rise of the Edmontons and perhaps the Toronto's or Winnipeg. you know, Carolina, some of these teams that haven't really had a ton of success, I think, are going to come up on the upswing and we're going to see a change in who we think are the best teams and by extension, who are the best players. Yeah, I was giving some thought to sort of what Crosby has left to do or accomplish. And, I mean, as you mentioned, the past calendar year or so has really just been a tour to force performance for him.

I mean, the back-to-back on Smy's and winning World Cup MVP and he hits a thousand points this year. And, you know, I guess for him now, it's in terms of rising up those all-time ranks, it's more of a sort of staying healthy and compiling the volume to make up for all the games he missed over the years. I mean, like if he approaches 100 points this year, I think he sneaks into the top 50 all-time by the end of the season. And obviously, after that, you can sort of, you know, see the blueprint for him moving up higher, higher on that list, assuming he's able to keep playing at something resembling this level. So I guess it's more so just of a sort of a compiling thing more so like he in terms of accolades and stuff like that it seems like he's pretty

much nailed down everything he can at this point right i mean i think a thing's come to mind i mean if if he can have seasons where he's in the race for a scoring title into his 30s or or maybe be playing as he did this year during the playoffs and then leading a team that we never expected to win do another cup i mean those are the types of things i'm sure we're motivated him because at some point it's going to become common thought that he isn't the best anymore and that that the new generation has passed on. And, you know, knowing how competitive Sydney is, I don't think he's going to just go, oh, yeah, that's right.

And so, you know, assuming health, which in his case, I think is a big question mark, you know, I think that that's what's going to motivate him is to, you know, to make like a golf comparison, you know, Jack Nicholas winning the 86 Masters at a time when everyone thought he was essentially playing ceremonially as, you know, was a crowning achievement in his career. I think Sydney will be trying to do that to try to have the success. probably more as a team than individually, you know, the way Wayne Gretzky was trying to get a cup to the Rangers

when he played late and, you know, they weren't able to do that. But I think that those will be the sort of things that push him because, you know, any normal human would already have long since been satisfied with the things he did and, excuse me, might take more of a vacation the summer and might not spend the still amount of time he does, you know, working on his craft to be the best. And, you know, the second one would be the thing that, that no one's really talking about now because it seemed a little bit impolite,

but we should wonder how long he's going to play and how the health will figure in, you know, at what stage, you know, I don't think many people expect him to see his contract through. I think he takes him to about 37, if I'm not mistaken. I don't have it in front of me. But how many more years does he want to give to this? Because, you know, he did suffer two more concussions this season. And, you know, at some point, I do know that there's a bit of a concern from those that are close to him. him about that and and you know i don't know at what level that will maybe impact his own thinking

about what more he needs to do and maybe just making sure he preserves his body and his mind so he can have a healthy healthy second career yeah so i'm assuming i mean he did get about 11 of the 15 first place votes like we did for the cons might um i'm assuming you also voted for him as as the cons might i did yeah i had to hit him him out of yeah it's interesting because as the postseason was going on and even at you know through the first handful of games in the stanlecum final i thought that if the penguins uh came out on top that malkin was their best most impactful player this postseason and was deserving the cons myth but as that series went along you could definitely feel that that pendulum swing in in that game five against the predators and i know you wrote

a really good uh more in depth piece about that game and crosbie performance in it but it really just did have sort of, it was on display, like, everything that makes him great from, from the puck control and the ability to fight defenders off and maintain it and keep his head up and the vision and the passing and just a little bit of everything. And I, you know, that was obviously sort of the decisive game and really shifted it in favor of the penguins. And I guess if you're, you know, using that logic where, you know, it was when it mattered most, he was their best player. So it make sense that he would get recognized as the most impactful

and most valuable player of the postseason. Yeah, I mean, it wasn't a slam dunk. I find it rarely as a slam dunk. I think I voted, I certainly voted back to L.A.'s most recent I voted four or five times of the consmites. It's a small group. So, you know, you certainly don't get to vote

every year if you go. But I find it's rarely been so obvious that there isn't some debate about who it should be. You know, and in this case, I thought Crosby was very good at the end of the Ottawa series to help them get through that. And let's face it, they weren't double overtime of game seven. That could have went the other way for them.

And then, you know, had the most points in the Stanley Cup final. I thought, you know, did very well controlling the game in a lot of games where they weren't. And then game four where he had the breakway goal and was stopped at another breakway. Penguins weren't very good that night. But he was really good. And then game five was something on another level. So, you know, it pushed him. slightly above Malkin.

I had entered the final, like you, thinking that Malkin was kind of in pole position for my vote. And, you know, I really tried to look at the whole playoffs and look at everything. I mean, he only finished one point behind. He missed a game with his concussion. And I thought he was better in the final two rounds,

which are more important. You need to get through the first two to get to the third and fourth round, but to win the cup, when I thought really that Pittsburgh was kind of on, And, you know, I thought that they were out of gas. I really thought Nashville was going to win the series, that to be honest. Even if you go back to when it was 2-2, to me it felt like Nashville controlled so much of the game.

I think the numbers bore it out at that time. And, you know, they had a team I thought it was going to come through and pull it out. And I thought that Sidney Crosby was a big reason why they weren't able to do that. Matt Murray as well, of course. But he didn't play enough, I don't think, to garnered serious consideration. Right, yeah, I guess if you could just give a, give the penguins goalie you won as, as, as, as, as, as, as flurry and Murray sharing it, then, then maybe you can make their argument for that instead.

Exactly. That was a tricky part. The league ruled we couldn't do that. And I understand why they did. Right. But, um, then you ask yourself the question. So it's a playoff MVP award. You know, this guy only played a series in three quarters or whatever it was.

I mean, he was awesome, uh, just as we've all come to expect from him. Um, but it was tricky. It would be hard giving him the playoff MVP. award, you know, when his partner stole around when he was out injured. It just, it was tricky, and I feel for Matt Murray, but something tells me maybe he's going to get another chance down the road.

Yeah, you can kind of see, I mean, in those first couple games, I think he had the two points in game one, and it sort of masked the fact that I didn't think Crosby played really well or really stood out in those first three games, and then in game four, even though the Predators took that game, you could definitely tell that Crosby was starting to

sort of impose his will on what was happening at 5-15, and And it's, it, I don't know, I don't know where you stand on this, but it does feel like it's slightly kind of unfortunate timing for, for P.K. Subban, because it did coincide with all the sort of back and forth shenanigans and, and all the trash talk, the two of them were having. And, you know, it's easy to sort of look at it from the perspective of, well, Suban kind of woke up a sleeping giant and, and he's responsible for, for what happened in those final two games. But at the same time, I'm much more in the, in the camp of, listen, you know, Crosby's a type of great player where you can only really keep him down for long enough and he was going to break out eventually and it just sort of wound up working out that way. I don't know. Like, where do you stand on that?

Yeah, I'm not going to buy into that one too much that he wouldn't have been given us all on those games if everyone hadn't been. He was motivated, C.J., he was motivated. I mean, it was certain that there's no love loss with him and P.K. Suban, you know, I don't think at this stage, you know, Crosby's a very professional type of guy. I don't think he likes being drawn into those types of. of conversations, but I think he's, you know, such a good athlete at this point that he would never let any sort of talk like that be a distraction of what he has to do on the ice.

And look, I get what PK's doing too. You don't want, if you have any chance to disrupt his mindset at all, why wouldn't you do it? You know, and PK probably understands how to play the media as well as anyone in the entire league at this stage. And, you know, that was what he did. I found it interesting not from a media studies standpoint, but. from what the Predators' reaction was, which was to keep him away from reporters for three days before game six.

I found that very interesting because, you know, I'm under the belief that that's no way that P.K. Suban wanted that and that, you know, it appears to me that the team intervened and basically said we don't want any more of these kind of side shows or distractions. And, you know, forget about whether reporters need the quotes or anything like that. I just found that an interesting response to what was happening on the ice. said it that you know there's a real appearance there that that Nashville shut him down from speaking because that they didn't like perhaps you know what was going on with some of those those

shadigans as you called them yes yeah that's well said um all right before we put this uh 2016 17 season to rest now is there anything are there any other takeaways you sort of had from from following this series closely or do you think we kind of covered the main main talking points here well other than to say i thought it was a fun series i mean i saw a few my colleagues right kind of awful series. And I guess if you just go by the scores, it looks that way. I mean, there wasn't a one goal game in it. There was a few 4-1 kind of games

there, but I actually thought it was fun. I mean, being in Nashville, which I said, joking at the top, was really amazing. I mean, that was, and that's what I think, you know, those of us that are lucky enough to cover a lot of these, we'll remember that for 20 years. And sometimes over time,

you forget the games a little bit or what happened, but just the way the fans were out. And, and and I found the stories good that the predators were a fun team. It's a team, you know, I'm comfortable saying I didn't watch as closely this season as I probably should have, given how good they ended up being at the end. I mean, Matthias Ekom to me was a real revelation to see him live, you know, six games. You know, I hadn't seen him as much.

I mean, it was a fun series, even though that the games, if you're just looking back in the history book, you're probably going to go, oh, look how awful that is, all these blowout games. I actually, I really enjoyed it. And I'll be curious to see what Nashville does now to see if they can get back. But I would have to think with the age of those top four blue liners and the assumption, they're going to protect them all in the expansion draft that there's going to be some tinkering needed. But I suspect we'll see the predators as a team that could be a force in the West moving forward. Yeah, I'd say, you know, aside from the scores, which obviously up until the last game,

I guess game one was in doubt for a while there too before the Penguins eventually took care of it. but it was it did feel like there wasn't really too many extended stretches of play where both teams where we saw the best of both teams like and a lot of that was just unfortunately due to the fact that they were both depleted and probably running on fumes considering how long they've been playing into the season and you don't necessarily see their you know they can they can't ramp up that fastball and their and their top game every once in a while but they can't sustain it and I thought that you know just with the composition of these two rosters if they were healthy would have been really just fat. fascinating back and forth hockey to see them if they were playing at their very best and we didn't really get too many of those stretches like it felt like either one team was just significantly dominating and then the other team would all of a sudden take their turn and it it didn't have more of that sort of chess chess match back and forth that I would have liked to see but obviously you know I don't think it was necessarily nearly as bad as some people are making out to be either well it's too bad we can't go six months into the future and put johansen back in and letang back

in and replay it. Well, we might be able to. Who knows? Yeah, we'll see. Well, just teams never get to the Cup final help. There's just no way, you know what I mean? Like, even as small, I think James Neal had a broken hand. I think Patrick Hornfuss had a broken finger.

Obviously, Nick Benino got knocked out. I mean, and I'm sure it goes much, much deeper in this is just off top of my head. There's just so many guys that are getting shot up with stuff to play those games. I mean, it's part of what makes it great is that it's so hard to play for that long in that intensive environment, but you don't always get the best true showcase of hockey. I think a lot of times that's in the first round. Yeah, that's true. Well, I guess that would be the argument for, you know, during the season,

we were sort of lamenting the fact that, you know, the penguins and the capitals might play super early in the postseason and they play in the second round and again. And maybe that is a better alternative if you see, like, the, you know, the best teams go up against each other when they're firing on all cylinders versus when they're severely depleted and we're seeing, like, depth guys go up against each other. I guess that is an interesting little counterpoint there. Right. It also opens the door to like the Frederick Goodro story and stuff like that guys

that most fans haven't heard of being able to make an impact. I mean, some of that is good for storytelling as well. So, I mean, I don't know. As I say, I still enjoyed that cup, and I can't say that all the time I do at the end. Sometimes it gets a little dull at the end, but I thought that this one had a little flavor to it. I mean, part of it was being in Nashville, though,

where everything you read or heard on Twitter was, absolutely true about the support that team was getting yeah yeah and that was a fun story to watch um okay let's look let's look forward to the future now and something i wanted to pick your brain about um where these growing rumblings were hearing about ilia colchuk coming back to north america which seems like it's likely to happen now i mean the one sort of landing spot that i've heard uh rumored super frequently now is is the columbus blue jackets like are you are you buying into that as a potential landing spot and and just are you sort of just acknowledging that he's going to come back to North America now as opposed to it being sort of up in the year?

Well, the last I'd heard on it is that there's still some debate in Ilya Kovalchuk's mind about whether he wants to do it. And as best as I can glean, he's not coming back on a cheap contract. You know, it's not a point where he wants so badly to play that he'll basically do it under any terms or anywhere. I mean, he really wants to dictate his spot and it sounds like you're going to have to pay for him. and, you know, that presents an issue for some teams. It doesn't sound like the salary cap's going to go up much. I could definitely see a team like Columbus. You know, I don't know 100% for certain that they're in on it,

but that doesn't ring untrue to me. You know, I'm also watching Vegas for him. And, you know, it's kind of an interesting idea that's floated around is, you know, they've already signed Vadim Shippichoff. We played with an S.K.A. St. Petersburg last year, and he was a line made of coval trucks that they might try to unite him, and maybe even of Genni Dadenov, the third member of that line last season, which honestly, I just want to see that for, you know,

a line that dominated the KHL last year to come to the NHL would be awesome just to see what kind of success they had. Does it translate? I mean, we've always wondered, and I guess people have tried to model it out, but how does, you know, what does the leagues compare it in a sense of a dominant player in the K, what will they do when they get to the NHL? But, you know, to me it sounds like there's still, it's not a clear cut. automatically coming. And, you know, the interesting thing, I guess, what Krovochuk is that

if he comes next year, the devils don't have to be involved. You know, when he's 35, he can sign as a free agent anywhere. I think it's a little bit easier. That being said, it would be a 35 and over-contract, and then the likelihood of been getting a longer-term deal would be lessened by that. And, you know, so it's going to be interesting to see if they go. At this point, the devil's basically said you can talk to everybody. Once you get to a contract with them, you know, let's figure out the deal. But it's, you know, I'm not sure that's

going to happen. I'll put it that way. I'm not convinced that we're going to see him back at the NHL next season. As a fan of the game, I would love that because, you know, it's been a couple years now, I think, three full seasons since we've gotten to see him play up close on a nightly basis in the NHL, and I think that makes it easy

to forget sort of what kind of a singular talent he can be and, you know, just the ability to eat up minutes seamlessly without really wearing down. I mean, you look at some of those minutes he was playing in his final couple of seasons in New Jersey, and he was playing like 24 and a half. And there's like very few defensemen that are even able to log that that type of ice time. And, you know, the, the shooting ability where he was constantly in the high teens as a finisher for his percentage while still

doing it on a high volume of attempts. And we haven't really seen a talent like that. I think that, you know, a guy like Patrick Lainé is an interesting comparable and we'll see how his career plays out. But beyond that, I mean, just that that finishing ability and sort of how effortlessly he seems to do it would be a fascinating thing to watch. And also for a team, if they can add it without necessarily having to give up, you know, everything to fit him in there. Like I've definitely come around to this idea that, you know, as important as puck possession and shot attempts are and all that and volume eventually does win out, we do sometimes overlook natural finishing ability. ability and shooting talent and there's so many teams in this league that could desperately need a guy that can actually convert some of those shots into goals and he's proven that he can do that and even though the age is getting up there if you can get him on a contract

that's a few years as opposed to being a long-term thing all of a sudden that becomes a pretty enticing proposition right and you know presumably whoever gets him won't be getting him to be the star player he used to be in our minds i mean that that's the benefit i mean he could maybe be the Phil Kessel on, you know, one of these teams where, you know, he's not shouldering all the responsibility to score, but he's still going to score a whole bunch for you. And, you know, I think he has to, there's certainly some intrigue about him coming back, but, you know, there's still some debate as well, a couple years on. What does he have left?

You know, how diminish will he be from the guy we last saw playing the NHL? I'm with you. I'd love to see it. I really thought that he's a dynamic player, and it's a shame to not. have all those guys in the league. But, you know, as I say, I'm getting the feeling that Ilya might be not 100% convinced he doesn't want to participate in the Olympics, you know, especially if he doesn't get the kind of contract or maybe the situation he's looking for, and then he might wait it

out another year and then just come back as a free agent next summer. Yeah, it'll be something to watch for. Okay, so one final thing I want to talk about with you while I still have you here is, you know, the lead-up to this expansion draft is going to be fascinating. and I remember the traded line when I had you on we were talking about how we expected the trade of line to be pretty dull but this little stretch here would really kind of open up and there'd be a lot of fireworks. Do you still believe that to be the case or do you think that the NHL's more conservative leaning might prevent anything too crazy from popping off here in the next couple weeks?

I still think there's going to be fireworks. You know, maybe not to the degree I was predicting back then. so much of it lies in George McPhee's hands. You know, he's been talking to every team, literally, about their needs, about who they're going to expose, about deals, maybe who they don't want to expose. But the teams themselves, I mean, there's a couple deals that sounds like are done, aren't sure, though, exactly which deals will come through.

And, you know, George McPhee being in the situation where he doesn't have to make those kind of trades with teams, has asked a lot, I think, of those teams and those sorts. trades because it's really one chance to game the system. I mean, it's pretty awesome that he has this ability. I mean, I think that the goal, that the, the, the gold nights are going to end up with a ton of draft picks, perhaps some prospects. I mean, they're going to get off to a good start for their future more than when we look at, you know, whatever 20 guys that we pencil into, you know, who's going to play for them on opening night. But, you know, I still think we'll see a trade or two

before the expansion list go in, which was, as we're talking right, now is four days from now. And, you know, potentially afterwards, you know, especially with Vegas, you know, this idea that I think they're going to take on a few players who they potentially flip. I mean, we know Mark Andre Fleury has waived as no move for the expansion draft to go to Vegas and, you know, barring something unforeseen, I think that Vegas will claim him. But, you know, the question then becomes, you know, does someone else trade for him? Does Buffalo, you know, where Jason Botterill has a connection to him?

maybe get in there and deal for them. I mean, Calgary's been looking for a goaltender, it feels like, forever. You know, because Mark Andre Fleury has some degree to control where you can be dealt to. I think it's an 18-team list you can submit. But, you know, I do wonder if he gets flipped, for example. And there'll be other players of the similar elk. But this summer we would have had almost no movement with the cap potentially staying flat. And then the expansion draft is forcing teams to make different kind of decisions than they would.

And I still believe we're going to get at least one trade where everybody goes woe and screams about it on Twitter for an hour. Yeah, I mean, the reason why I'm remaining optimistic here is because you can very easily sort of map out the potential moves and why teams would be invested in doing them because, you know, especially for the teams that have four more appealing defensemen, And it's a pretty steep price for most of them to try and protect all of them because all of a sudden they're going to be exposing some intriguing forward talent and they might be more inclined to try and recoup some sort of value, even if it's 50 cents on a dollar or whatever for them, rather than just seeing them walk for nothing.

And, you know, for example, today I think Pierre LeBron reported that the predators might be willing to or might need to face the reality that they're going to have to expose a guy like James Neal, for example, if they keep all four of those top blue liners that we all rant in and raved about throughout this. cup run and and that's obviously not a great outcome for them because james neal uh even though he's has his flaws as a player is still one of those guys that has that finishing talent we were talking about with colchuk earlier and would appeal to a lot of teams and then you've got on the other side of things a handful of teams whether it's the hurricanes or the flames or or you know the

definitely the coyotes and avalanche for example who have uh open roster spots that they could easily protect because they just don't have enough good players so all of a sudden, you can sort of start kind of drawing lines between those teams and trying to figure out what can happen. And they might not be blockbusters by any means, but, you know, for hockey junkies like us, they're definitely going to be things to spend a couple weeks kind of analyzing and dissecting and trying to figure out how it changes the landscape of the league. Well, and it sounds like now a few contracts are going to move around.

I know some people hate that idea of like the players that don't play. But, you know, I always find it interesting, the maneuvers that happen with that. And, you know, it certainly sounds like David Clark. contract that's going to end up in Vegas one way or another there's some discussion out there maybe about Marion Hosa who I guess at this stage is a little bit more than a contract because he's still playing but you know might not play it through being moved I mean those kind of moves I always just because maybe I am a hockey nerd I love seeing that the thinking that goes behind those and you know I should add too that we should watch Vegas closely because I'm I'm wondering how

many moves will kind of be handshake kind of moves you know what I mean I wonder how much I know the league really is sensitive about it and they want everything documented, but when you get an expansion draft, I think that there's a lot of wink-wink, nudge, nudge that goes on. And, you know, I think that, so we're going to get next week where the lists go in and they make their choices, and then I still think there's going to be a whole ton of movement around Vegas, you know, into July. And I think some of them we might be able to connect the dots, even if we don't know exactly what was written down on paper at some point.

Well, you already see sort of the inklings of that with this, that the ducks didn't necessarily ask Kevin BX said a wave is no move, but they have some sort of a deal in place with Vegas where You know, it won't be an issue like it'll be that you're I think you're right I think there's gonna be a lot of that stuff But I'm obviously banking on on individuals like yourself and Bob McKenzie and the fine reporters out there to To really get down to the bottom of all the stuff that's happening behind the scenes Yeah, I still think next week it's gonna be really cool because you have the expansion draft and then we everyone goes right to the draft which is close to a hockey conference, I guess, as we get for at least at the NHL level.

And there's a lot of rumors and everybody's there. And, you know, we typically do see some trades at the drafts. And I just think that that it does set up as a pretty good time if you're into the whole transactions of hockey. And, you know, I'm not sour yet that this is all going to fizzle. I still think that there's a lot out there. And, you know, I do believe the league didn't want any of it distracted from the cup final.

So, you know, that's why we're, you know, just on the other side of that and nothing too big has happened at the moment. Well, you sort of alluded to the fact that, you know, you suspect there might be one move that might really get people to go, to have some sort of reaction online about it. Like beyond, you know, there's going to be sort of the maybe like Frayton's second, third line forwards or maybe kind of second third pairing defensemen. But do you think there's going to be any guys with big contracts, but that are still actually sort of living up to them that, that might be traded as sort of teams trying to get ahead of the curb and using this as a chance to basically get a molligan on it. Like I'm, you know, I keep circling back to a team like the Panthers, for example, and

it's, it's tough to say what's going on there and what their thought process is, but they also do have, like, four, what, five defensemen that I assume they'd like to protect and, and obviously too many forwards. So all of a sudden you start potentially looking into whether they might pull the plug on, on the Keith Yandel experiment right now, or if it's too early for that. Do you think we could potentially see one big move like that? Or do you think it's going to be kind of smaller stuff that we're just going to have to overblow a little bit to make it make sense? Well, I think Matt D'Sheaan's going to move somewhere.

I mean, that probably wouldn't cause a big seismic whoa because, you know, his name was out there before the trade deadline. But, you know, I'd be surprised, mildly surprised if he was back in Colorado for next year. It seems like a relationship where the team and the player are both open to something new. and obviously it's about finding a trade and making a trade that the abs can live with. I wonder about Jonathan Durant's future in Tampa. He's a restricted free agent this summer, and that's a team with noted cap issues

and also a noted need for a right-shot defenseman. Another one to bolster their chances, and that appears to present a recipe where the lightning might move on from Durand, not because of some of the things that happened in the past, but more because he's a chair. that they could play to perhaps solve some of those issues. There's going to be some name guys go.

I don't see between those two, you know, I wonder what the Kings are going to do with Rob Blake now running the show. There's some sort of rumblings that there might be willing to shake up their core a little bit. I mean, I still, it just feels, and sometimes you're reading the T-leys, but there's a lot of smoke, and so I've got to think we're going to find a fire somewhere. C.J. I was trying to wink, wink and nudge you in the direction of John Tavares there, but you didn't seem to bite. Well, this is the one thing I can't get past with John Tavaris.

And, you know, I got to know him pretty well early in his career, covered him at the World Hockey Championships where the access to players is a lot better and got to know his family a little bit and just a chatting kind of way. He's just such a loyal guy that I can't imagine him leaving. You know, maybe I'm putting too much faith and sort of just the bit I know because, look, you can only go based on what you know. But I would be stunned if he left the Islanders.

I just, it doesn't feel like something he would do. We'll see. I mean, I'm happy to be wrong on that one, but that's always come back to that for me. It's just he's a very loyal guy. He feels like it's, even though I think we would all look at his situation for the time he's been in a league and say, they're asking him to do too much.

They haven't given him enough around him to have this sort of success for how good a player he is. But I think he's stubborn and wants to do everything in his power to try to win a cup with the islanders because they show faith in him early in his career. Yeah, no, no, I'm just trying to start the pot there. But it is an interesting dynamic there

where it's like a game of chicken where if you're the team and you have this superstar whose contract is eventually about to expire, you know, you obviously have a better sense of it than anyone does, but there is like, obviously, if they traded him this summer, for example, they recoup much more value than if they had to do it frantically at the trade deadline next year or whatever, or ultimately the disaster of losing them for nothing next summer. So it is, it's something to keep an eye on, but I agree with you.

I don't think that, I don't think we're ultimately going to see anything there on that front. Well, what's the price that you would have to pay? I mean, just in a fun world, John Tavares doesn't like their offer on July 1st. or whatever they talked before July 1st. He doesn't sign that extension right away. I mean, what do you have to get to even make that make sense if you're the islanders? I mean, it would have to be huge. Well, it would have to be a young, a package centered around a young guy to play down the middle

that, you know, he's not necessarily going to step in and just replace all of John Tavares and everything he provides by himself, but sort of provides hope for the future. You're sort of resetting things, although I'm sure fans of that franchise, aren't in love with the idea of resetting the clock for a team that has been sort of stuck in this weird little rebuild zone for way too long at this point. Right. I just, it doesn't feel right. I mean, I guess maybe if the Leafs, it's sort of the obvious connection, if they were

going to trade William Nylander or something, you know, maybe you can build a package around that as the two cores, but, you know, even from the Toronto perspective, I'm not sure that makes sense at this stage. What about for the HABs with a guy like Yaltreni? Well, that might have more weight to it. It feels like Gelschenyak, where he's had, to call him damage goods wouldn't be fair, but I think that he's seen a little differently now

than he was earlier in his career. He hasn't quite met the expectations. Obviously, the center winger thing has been a constant debate and discussion in Montreal. He's another player, though, whether it's the islanders or someone else, that I would not be surprised if there's a trade made there. I believe that Montreal was trying to move him during the season and didn't find a deal,

but maybe one will present itself now that more stuff's shaking out. But that may be as the makings of something you could start speculating about. I can't wait for someone to listen to this and like and transcribe it as and report it as a as you and I is reporting fact. I know it drives my colleague Elliot Friedman. Yes. That you can get into sort of a discussion, especially at a part. podcast you can actually have a discussion radio is a half discussion and then

it gets all twisted around and the only thing the GM or the assistant GM reads is the twisted around version but let's be clear we're not this is not fact we're just trying to work through what what may or may not transpire yeah this is purely two friends

just talking about hockey as fans as opposed to trying to try to break news here let's just leave it at that two buddies with coffee and a microphone exactly yes it's a bit too early for beer, so we're going with the coffee approach for now, although I'm sure after in Nashville, you're, uh, you're, you're good with the coffee, coffee side of things. Trying out.

All right, CJ, I appreciate you taking the time, man. I know it's going to be a busy, busy few weeks here for you, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm definitely going to put up the bad signal again, and maybe after everything shakes out a little bit after free agency and we'll get you on to, uh, to dissect what happened. It's going to have to be early July, because I'm heading to Japan, uh, beyond that. So you're going to have to have to get it done pretty soon after free agency. Well, I look forward to it. Take care, CJ.

Thank you. The Hockey P.D.O.cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypediocast.