The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 175: Emergency Trade Freeze PDOcast

Episode Date: June 17, 2017

Andrew Berkshire joins the show to discuss the concerns about how Marc Bergevin has progressively decimated Montreal's depth on the blueline (1:06), the price paid for Jonathan Drouin and how he fits on the Canadiens (3:59), whether the writing is on the wall for Alex Galchenyuk to be shipped out of town (12:05), the bizarre Nathan Beaulieu trade with the Sabres (20:47), where the Montreal Canadiens go from here (37:22), and the Flames choosing Mike Smith as their starting goalie (43:18). Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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and joining me as my good buddy Andrew Berkshire. Andrew, what's going on, man? Not too much. Crazy times here with the trade freeze and every team's scrambling. It's fun. Yeah, I'd say not too much as a bit of an understatement

considering what's gone on in the past few hours. Yeah, I guess that's a good point. That's a good point. I spent the morning gardening, actually, so I worked up my sweat and then I came inside, had a shower, and then I was like, wait a second, the Habs traded Nathan Bolleyu.

What the hell's going on? Yeah, I mean, I woke up thinking and I'd get to enjoy a pretty relaxing Saturday afternoon, maybe lounge around the house a bit, go for a walk, get some groceries. And then I was quickly reminded that June is the month where Mark Bergevin turns into that meme of the Joker from the Batman movie where he just says,

and here we go. And all of a sudden just kind of watches the world burn. And yeah, I guess he's providing us with content at least. So we got to give Mark Bergerent credit there. Yeah, June is the month where Mark Bergerand trades all of his defensemen who can skate. That's like what he does in this month, you know, you know, as much as I like the Jonathan Druin trade for what they need right now,

like I think he's basically a perfect fit up front. Man, that defense, like I was talking to wheat and oil on Twitter just before this podcast started. And like, they literally have nobody on their defense in their prime. Like, not a, if Davidson gets taken in the draft, and like, I like Brandon Davidson, but he's probably a third pair guy, like, you know, a push for like a number four. if he develops properly over the next couple of years. But he's the only guy in his mid-20s. There's that Jerobach guy who I think is 26 or 27.

But again, like, you've got nobody in their prime. That's nuts. Well, especially considering what they've had over the past handful of months, like they just like willingly let like Mark Barbario go and they trade for Nikita Estrov and now, you know, they don't tender him. They basically relinquish his RFA rights and it looks like he's going to go to the KHL and they trade Sir Gatchev. obviously the Suban trade from last summer and uh what looked like a pretty decent group with

some depth all of a sudden as you mentioned looks pretty barren yeah absolutely and like you know the nestro i wasn't very impressed with nestrov in montreal i watched him closely because like his numbers were pretty good and he was clearly a guy who was super sheltered in tampa and like he was uh you know handled the puck like a bit of a grenade uh he could set pucks up or uh set shots up in the offensive zone but man, every other zone, he was a dangerous man to have with the puck on his stick. But again, like, that's, that trade was okay in isolation. It was like, okay, they're adding defensive depth. That's good.

But then they immediately waived Barbario, who is a far superior player and immediately was playing like top pair of minutes in Colorado. And okay, yeah, it's Colorado. But he was still playing really well. So this is a guy that, you know, has basically been really good everywhere he's gone. And they just undervalued him for whatever reason. Okay, well, let's break down both of the trades they've made over the past couple days one by one. And before we get started, I mean, we should mention that, you know, it's going to be a pretty hectic couple days here.

So I'm not sure, like, what the shelf life of this podcast is going to be because by the time, I guess, you know, there's going to be the trade freeze now that hit today at 3 p.m. Eastern and it won't be lifted until Thursday morning. So in theory, the Canadians won't be able to make any more trades until until that Thursday morning. but yeah and then we have the expansion draft protection lists are going to get submitted and released on Sunday morning and then we're going to have a few days here to do mock drafts until Vegas officially announces who they've taken on Wednesday evening at the annual awards show so that's sort of the lay of the land for the next couple days and and with that out of the way let's get let's get to this druan trade because there's a couple different layers to here I mean when I first saw the trade I thought it was just a complete slam dunk for the Canadians because

You know, they made it pretty clear that they're a win now team for a number of different reasons. And it seems like Druand can step into the lineup immediately and provide them with a certain dynamic that they're going to be desperately lacking, especially if Alex Radula walks this summer as a free agent. So I love that. And, you know, just Drew Ann as a talent. I mean, I feel like it's warranting a little bit of a discussion and some praise here because aside from, I guess, possibly Connor McDavid, he was the number one. And holy crap, look at what this dude just did with the puck gift star in the NHL in the 2016-17 season. And he was remarkable to watch.

And while I don't, I think it's a bit alarming that he wasn't really able to necessarily drive player produce as much at 5-1-5 as you hope for someone with a player of his natural abilities. He did also just turn 22 and was yanked around quite a bit by the lightning for a few years there. So I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in that regard. Yeah, so am I. And like I took a pretty deep look on him in it like with the sports. Fort Logic stats and like in terms of creating scoring chances for his teammates, he's up there with like, you know, Archie Panarin and Patrick Kane and and that tier of player. So like he's really, really good.

But in terms of his own personal scoring chances, like he's a huge perimeter shooter. He he doesn't go and drive the net very often outside of like his crazy stick plays that make him like the end one mixed tape star of the NHL kind of guy. but yeah he's not going to be a huge goal score especially at even strength the annoying thing about the drouin trade is that already like you can tell what's going to happen with him like the expectations are ridiculous like i've i've seen people say that like oh you know it's not unreasonable to expect a 35 goal 80 point season out of him next year it's like no no it is like not even patcheretti can do that and for people who are not understanding this like max patcheretti is a way better hockey player

than jonathan drew and especially at that's that you're not that's he's a way better hockey player than Jonathan Druand, especially at this moment in time, maybe Drewan will be better in three to four years or something, but Drewan is the second line left wing. That's where he's slotted in that lineup. If he gets more ice time than Patriot next year, then that'll be mind-blowing because it would make no sense. So it'll be interesting to see how he handles not just the French-Canadian

great hope in Montreal, but also the expectations of putting up offensive numbers that he's never even come close to. Like, I mean, he's a year removed from a four-goal season. And yeah, he only played like 30 games or whatever, but his goal-scoring numbers aren't very good. Yeah, people sometimes let their minds wander with these expectations. I mean, I feel like it's generally, it might be a bit extreme in his example,

but I mean, just league-wide, like it feels like fans generally have it recalibrated their expectations for what the new norms are for like a first-line producer at the NHL level, and they still kind of have their head. heads in the clouds there. So I can definitely see Drew N. Uh, getting criticized right out of the gate because he's not absolutely just, you know, taking the NHL by storm. But I, I, I'm still pretty optimistic that he's going to, he's going to live up to

his end of the bargain, especially as the contract goes on. Like, what do you think about the fact that, you know, they gave him, obviously they had to kind of give him that contract. They did right out of the gate. And then, you know, I'm not sure how, if he, how much he's going to be worth in year one or two, but it definitely seems like, towards the end of that deal, that 5.5 is going to seem like a pretty good value. Yeah, probably.

I mean, I look at it in the same context as like what Mark Bergerand did with Max Patcheretti five years ago where he signed him to an extension for 4.5. And like 4.5 then is kind of like 5.5 now. So I don't think Druin has that high of a two-way ceiling. But he is what they need. I feel like the contract is fair value. I kind of wish they would have bought more than one UFA year for that high of a salary. because like I would say based on last year, last two years,

he's probably closer to a four or four point five million dollar player right now. But then again, like the average salary in the NHL is over three million now, I think. So like at a certain point, the salaries, like our perception of them is kind of skewed simply because of guys like Sydney Crosby who take 8.7 when they're really worth like 1213. Right. You know, so he's one of those mid mid range guys who's probably getting what he's worth. two years from now, I would say. And that's fine. What I find interesting about that whole situation is when Bergevin came in,

he was like hard line, very clear that every prospect in the organization or like that they would bring in after their entry level deal would be getting a two or three year or one two or three year bridge deal before they went long term. The times that he's abandoned that were Brennan Gallagher, which is fine because Gallagher came in with like absurd contract of ins that were like oh under four million for brandon gallagher that's great and he went ahead and signed that but then galchenyuk apparently this is a rumor anyway because they had the same agent i believe uh galenic came in and uh he asked for the same contract as galliger which would have been absurdly great you know six years under four million for uh possible first

or second line center that's amazing and the canadians were like no you're getting a bridge and they went like hard on him like did not want to go any longer than two years same thing they did with suban and then all of a sudden jonathan drewan comes in and he gets the six years immediately and i get that they wanted to get him signed quick after the trade you know make this big PR situation where they literally signed the contract in front of the media at the press conference which was like come on man this is not a tv show this is not donald trump yeah but at the same time I highly question the way that Bergerent awards contracts now. And it seems like the two guys who he had,

who had the most talent that were brought through the organization, he just did not like. And therefore, they were subject to this blanket policy of the team, but nobody else is. And that just drives me nuts. Is there a bigger kiss of death in the NHL right now than Mark Bergerna's saying he's not going to trade you? No.

I mean, he even, like, man, I guess, the only time that he's ever said that he wasn't going to do something and didn't do it immediately was when he said that he was not going to fire Michel Tarian and that took almost a year later. So I guess he's the only one that he sticks by. I mean, in his defense, like, you know, there isn't really any, you know, strategic, competitive advantage to making your intentions publicly known and then following you through with them. Like, it's perfectly fine to be a little coy with the media and keep your cards close to your vest and not necessarily reveal all your plans out in the open. but it is funny contrasting that sort of style versus like a guy like Brian McClellan in Washington, for example, who like year after year goes like, okay, we pretty clearly need like a defenseman

and he goes and signs Matt Niskin. We clearly need a winger now and he signs, you know, he trades for T.J. OSHA and he signs Justin Williams. So we need a third line center now. He trades for Lars Eller. And I've always kind of appreciated that sort of style where he just kind of calls his shot and does it. But obviously, you know, there's multiple different ways to get the job done.

Yeah, I kind of love that from McClellan. He's like Owen Nolan in the All-Star game with the breakaway on Dominic Hachik, right? Where he just like stops halfway down and points at the corner and scores. And man, the deals that he was able to pull off too. Like every time he said that he wanted to get something, he got probably the best available of what was out there. I mean, Matt Niskinan was a fantastic buy. I guess he also got Brooks Orbeck that year.

So I guess we'll get him 50-50. Yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah, so it's still pretty good. good. And then T.J. Oshy worked out great for them. Justin Williams worked out great for them. Lars Zeller is looking to work out great for them. That's some pretty impressive work there. Yeah. Okay. So back to Drew and I think the fit is interesting on this team because, you know, as you mentioned on this podcast and in that piece you wrote up as a reaction article for sportsnet.com. dot CA. You know, Druan is a naturally really gifted playmaker and he's involved in a ton of different scoring chance generating plays and he seems like he'd be a really sort of tantalizing fit on

Alex Galchenex's wing considering that passing ability and what Galchenex shown so far in his NHL career is definitely like an above average finisher shooting the puck and that seems like it would be a match made in heaven but then there's also sort of you got to wonder, what the next domino is going to be to fall here because it seems like when they acquired for Drew and it sort of gave a bit more validity to these rumors we've been hearing for for weeks now that Galcenaic was on his way out in trade and whether they'd use him as a chip to kind of recoup some defensive talent so I don't know like as a hockey fan I'd love to see those two guys play together but it still seems like even though a trade hasn't necessarily happened yet that it seems

kind of inevitable which is a bit bit kind of disappointing from my perspective yeah That absolutely is. I mean, I think that if the Canadians were to roll with a Duran-Galcenaic Gallagher line as their second line, like, that is much better than they've ever had in my lifetime. That would be extremely exciting to watch. And then you've still got, like, if they're able to retain Radulov, you've got patch-oridine Radjolov on the first line. And kind of like this year, it doesn't even matter who the center is because those guys are so good.

It's really intriguing. But, yeah, they clearly don't like Galchaniac very much. Now, what kind of came out today from a few different people was that they believe that Bolliou was a bad influence on Gailchenech, off the ice. So maybe it is that they've moved on from Bolliou and they feel like now Gailchenaic can get another chance. And this year will be like his last chance, one year under Julian to see what can come out of it. But it does kind of seem like they'd rather move on from Gailcheneck too, which is a real shame because the rumors going around are that they want to trade Gailchernick. for a defensive defenseman, which is like, dude, you don't need that. That's like the last thing you need.

Even like there was a rumor that it was going to be like Galtjaniuk for Jalmersen. And I have huge respect for Jalmersen. I think he's probably the best pure defensive defenseman in the world. But not a need, man. You need somebody who can move the puck and create some offense. Like you've still got Kerry Price back there. You've got Claude Julian coaching. He's going to develop the good defensive system.

He already was doing wonders at the end of last season. And, you know, they only allowed 12 goals in six games against the Rangers. The defense is not the problem. It does seem like sometimes these NHL GMs operate under the working belief that there's like a cap on how much exciting young dynamic offensive talent you can have in your lineup. It's like, oh, we got one guy. Well, that means this other guy is all of a sudden instantly expendable. We can't have both of them.

It's like, you're allowed to have both things. Like, you can't have too much of a good thing. Yeah. And I wonder if that's like kind of what they thought with Jeff Petrie too, right? because when Petrie came into the Canadians, like all of a sudden they had Petri and Suban rushing the puck up the right side there. And they were just like,

it was the first time that the Canadians under Tarian were actually dominating a play outside of the little lockout short in season where they had Galchini Gallagher and Eller as a third line that was like tearing people apart. You know, they had 45, 46 minutes a night where their defensemen were just owning teams. and it seemed like they just felt that they only needed one guy who could skate the puck up. And, you know, now that Boli was gone too, because he was the only other guy who, you know,

he was playing limited minutes, but he could actually skate with the puck. Now the only guy on their defense that can skate the puck is Petrie. So I actually, I feel bad for him because he also got, he took a lot of crap last year. Because, you know, the way it works in the NHL is if one defensive pairing has this crazy sky high PDO, usually that comes back at you on another pairing. And it happened to be Petrie's pairing, who was the better play driving pairing last year, but was on for more goals

while Shea Weber's pairing got, you know, killed in Corsi, but had like a 60% on ice goals, four percentage. And people are ripping on Petrie all the time this year when he's the only guy who can actually carry the puck, it's a lot of pressure on him, and I think teams are going to key on him like crazy.

Yeah. I mean, I think the world of just Petrie's, I'm sure he's going to handle that task. fine, but it is not ideal that they're going to be relying on him that much to that extent. I mean, you know, the reason why I mentioned earlier how, like, right off the bat, like my first, at first blush, I love this trade from Montreal's perspective, and I really thought that they got the better of it. But then as I started thinking about it, it does feel like one of those trades that's just sort of, you know, in this hot day culture, it might not be the sexiest opinion, but it's one of those trades that just kind of make sense for both teams because you can sort of see why. Tampa Bay did it, right? I mean, they were clearly reluctant or unwilling to pay that big of a contract fee that the Canadians wound up giving up Druin and they had the roster crunch with the expansion draft looming and the very realistic possibility that they were going to lose a really good player.

And they get Mikhail Sergev, who everyone loves and seems like a very reasonable calculated bet to be the type of impact defensemen that every team is seeking and there aren't seemingly enough to go around in today's NHL. So, you know, they kind of lose. the more dynamic better player right now that seems like he's going to contribute more this season. But moving forward, like it seems like a pretty calculated risk from Eisenman's perspective. Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you look at outside of that headman and Stroman pairing, like Tampa Bay's defense was not good for the last couple of years, right?

Like that was probably their biggest problem last year outside of Stamcoast missing, you know, almost the entire year and all the other injuries that they had. Their defense is just brutal outside of those two guys. Sir Gatchev is a huge upgrade for them there if he pans out. I think he's got a really good chance to pan out. And I totally root with you that it's a perfect fit for both teams. And it also like it kind of clarifies exactly what the Canadians are trying to do here is they see their window. As much as Mark Berger-Rand says he doesn't believe in cup windows, their window is the next, like one year is their best chance next year.

And then if Kerry Price resigns, he'll be making a lot more money, but they probably have have another two years after that where, you know, Shea Weber is still quite good. Jeff Petrie's in his early 30s. Max Patcheretti will still be on contract. But after that, you know, they've got no defensemen coming up who are capable of becoming second or first pair guys, in my opinion.

I know a lot of people like Noah Julesen. I don't really see it there. Like, he seems to be a fairly safe player. He's tough. but he looks like third pair is written all over him for me. I just don't think he has the creativity and the puck carrying ability to be a real top four guy. And, you know, Simon Bork, again, same thing, real steady guy, but not super talented. Jerbeck might be okay, but again, you never know with KHL defenseman.

Nikita Zytev looks real good, but Zytev was a lot better in the KHL than Jerebek was. it's a tough situation. And then you've still got Alexei Emelon kicking around, which I think that's what blows my mind the most is they've moved on from so many guys for various reasons. And then there's this other guy who just sucks it up year after year after year. He's just brutal. And then they put him with Shea Weber for almost all of last year.

And he just destroys Shea Weber's 515 offense, which is already not that great. like Shea Weber last last year while he was on the ice the canaanians only scored 1.95 goals for per 60 at 5 on 5 like that's brutal man that's like worst team in the league territory you know his on-ice shooting percentage was like 6.5 and that's you know alexie embellin he doesn't he's the death of offense so like it just blows my mind that they didn't buy him out or find a way to move him maybe they still will but if he's back next year that's just nuts to me Like, you know, Nathan Bolliou is the defensive problem, but then they watch Emmelin get turnstiled 15 times a night, and they just don't mind because he's a big hitter.

Well, that's the thing with the Drew N trade and why it's, you know, it's, you can reconcile the fact that it's very palatable giving up such a premium asset because it does sort of resolidify this idea that the Canadians are a win now team. And, you know, even if you disagree with the way you go about it, like as long as a GM has, you know, some sort of a plan. is kind of following that plan. I'm willing to see it through as long as it's coherent and that perfectly makes sense with how, you know, the values that they have, their two best players in Patch Ready and Price had right now that they'd go for it while they still can

and have them for cheaper than market value. But if that's the case and you're working under that assumption, then how do you reconcile, you know, looking at a roster that's desperately in need of defensemen already that can skate and move the puck and not to mention have youth on their side and all of a sudden you acknowledge that then you just trade one of the only remaining guys that checks those boxes for a third round

pick that has what, something like a 20% chance or so of becoming an NHL regular. And even if that is the case and you get lucky with that, it's still probably a solid four or five years away from happening and really doesn't kind of gel with this current plan that you have going right now at all. It just seems like a very bizarre reversal, of course, from what they've been doing for the past however long. Well, and above and beyond that, even if they do, you know, hit the ball out of the park on that pick, the Canadians don't like to trust their young players. I put this out on Twitter earlier, and unfortunately it wasn't very clear when I said it, but in the Bergervan-slash-Slavév era, so like the last five years plus like going back to the 2009 draft,

the Canadians have only developed one player as a full-time Montreal Canadian from the H. and that was Nathan Bolli. You know, Brennan Gallagher played like 30 games there during the lockout and he was not good. And then he was in the NHL and he was great. So like something was wrong there right away. You could tell like when you're producing fewer points in the American hockey league than the NHL, that's really weird.

But they've developed no one. The only guy that seems to have developed well is Arturi Lekinen, who was developed in Sweden. You know, so like, and then like Alex Galcenaic, who went straight to the NHL. out of junior. They just don't have any patience for guys. And again, Galchaniac is a guy that they don't seem to like very much. Like, it's a tough organization to really get your head around because I remember when Bergerman took over, he was like extremely clear. And there was a reason

why people were so excited. You know, he was saying we're going to build through the draft. You know, two years from now, we're going to be competing for Stanley Cup. And none of that ever came true. they don't develop any of their guys that they drafted. Like almost all of them are either traded away really quickly or, you know, they get a couple cups of coffee and they jerk them around so much that they lose all value and they trade them for nothing. Yeah. Well, the thing with Boyu is, who, by the way, has one of the most sneaky, difficult names

to both say and right, is he's plagued by that sort of Lars Zeller Brendan Smith syndrome and there's countless other guys over the past few years where it's like this former top prospect that was super highly regarded and unfortunately never really put it all together and hit those lofty heights that people thought he might and then now all of a sudden because that's the case people have trouble getting past that and evaluating them fairly based on what they actually are in the present versus how disappointed they are that you know they aren't those players they thought they might be and that's obviously a very flawed way to evaluate your assets because like one is based in reality and others based upon these pipe dreams and

we obviously know which one you should probably be operating under. So it's just, it's always, it's always puzzling to me when, when these guys get unfairly criticized because of something that's completely out of their own control. Yeah, like Nathan Bowie was drafted six years ago. I think we can let go with the draft position thing pretty easily by now. And like, I had a few people get angry at me today over the trade because, you know, like, oh, well, you know, he was given a chance to be first pairing defenseman with Shea Weber this year and he failed.

And I was like, yeah, I totally agree. wasn't good enough to play with Shea Weber against top end competition, but he doesn't need to be a first pairing guy. If Nathan Bulli is your number four, like that's still pretty good. Even, you know, for where he was drafted, 17th overall, getting a decent number four defenseman at that position is not the worst thing in the world. It's not like, you know, grabbing a fourth liner at 26 or something, you know, like it's still not a bad draft pick. It's not amazing, but it's good. And you have to value guys who bring something to the table. And Nathan Bullioux does. And, you know, one of the things that people don't give him enough credit for last year is when he was on the ice last year, the Canadians

produced a ton of offense, five on five and on the power play. I believe he actually led the Canadian's power play in primary assists, which is crazy considering Andre Markov's on that team, and Bulli didn't play very much. So, like, he was really developing offensively, and he definitely struggled defensively last year. No time more so than the playoffs. And actually, feel like that might be kind of what sealed his fate was struggling in the playoffs. He got caught on the wrong side of the puck a little bit too often. And maybe it's just one of those situations where they saw him bad and they just made a snap decision based on a very few games, which, you know, people say teams don't do, but teams

definitely do. I think people need to generally sort of feel comfortable forming opinions for themselves and not necessarily just, you know, completely gullibly and blindly just believing. everything teams tell them. And, you know, you see this a lot whenever trades like this happened. And I tweeted something about how I didn't like this from the Canadians' perspective. And all of a sudden, you get this trickle-down effect of all these diehard Canadians fans jumping in your mentions, just pointing out, like, Nathan Bolu, you suck. So like, the Canadians didn't even feel comfortable playing him in the playoffs. He was a healthy scratch. And it's like, okay, that's fine. But you can't just necessarily assume that, you know, the Canadians and whoever is making the decisions for the lineups, all of a sudden.

sudden is right 100% of the times. Like you're, you're allowed to maybe critique them or think that they didn't optimally use their assets or were playing the wrong guys. And even if Nathan, even if Nathan Boyub struggled. So it's like, it's, it's just always kind of comical to me to see how quickly people just jump to the team's offense. They're just, you know, they must be right. They're, they're working in NHL as opposed to actually critically forming their own opinions on the players and the talent available. Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing is like those same people will say, oh, well, you know, the Andres Martinson contract is good, but he was taken out of the lineup in the playoffs after game two, not game five. So, like, were they wrong about him to take

him out? Because, like, his position is a lot less high stress than playing defense in the playoffs. And, like, Bulli still played almost 20 minutes a game last year. Like, he wasn't super relied on, but he played some big minutes. And, you know, his problem has always been consistency, because when he was good, he was extremely good. Like, you know, top four worthy guy, maybe even up to, like, gusting up to a number three guy. He has talent, you know. I remember when they finally put him back in the lineup in the playoffs in 2014.

That was basically the turning point against the Boston Bruins, where they had, you know, been putting Douglas Murray in the lineup and getting throttled completely, like 75% coursey for the Bruins while. Murray was on the ice and then they put Bullyu in and he made a couple of like fantastic passes including one, a lob pass to patch ready for a breakaway goal and that basically turned the tide in that series. You know, he's got the talent to be a good player in this league. And I wonder, you know, looking at Phil Housley, you know, another really good puck-moving

defenseman, a great skater in Buffalo as coach, maybe he sees something in Bolli that he could develop because, you know, look what he did with Ryan Ellis and Matthias Echom, not to take anything away from those players. They were always very good. But he did a good job helping those guys along. You know, he described Phil Housley as a, you know, as a great puck mover and skater. And then, you kind of threw in the caveat as a coach. Like, I don't even think you need that. I think he's already one of Buffalo's top six defensemen, even at the age of 53 or whatever he is. You think he's better than Ristolining? I don't know if he's better than Ristolining, but he's definitely better than Josh. George's.

we went the same route. And I think Josh Rogers might actually be older. I need to fact check that, but I'm not sure. His knees definitely are. Man, like, I, I'm surprised that the Canadians weren't able to recoup some sort of better asset or something, because I wonder how much they were actually actively shopping them around. And then I'm surprised that no other team bit and was willing to pay a bit more. I mean, not necessarily that the Canadians view the Sabres as their biggest competition in Atlantic Division by any means, but they are a team. that's up and coming. They have nice young players, especially up front and have good goal tending, and I have a new coach and GM, and it seems like they're headed in the right direction. And if anything,

they just desperately needed something resembling an HL caliber defenseman based on what they were using last year. And regardless of what you think of Boyu, that's a massive upgrade for them, and they basically just got him for a marginal asset. So I don't know about gift wrapping a team in your division, a player like that that they so desperately need. It just seems like a bizarre move from the Canadian's perspective. Yeah, isn't that the craziest part of this trade is like usually when you're trading in division, you expect to like pay a premium when you're giving up like the player, right? If you're trading player for picks or player for prospects, if you're trading in division,

you want to make sure you're not getting screwed over, but they just got swindled here. It doesn't make any sense. Slightly off topic, but I remember I'm pretty sure I remember talking to you and a few other people several years ago, actually, about guys like Josh Joel. George's and Dan Girardi, guys who like never really missed games, but played like that shot blocking physical style. And I remember like a bunch of people getting really upset with us saying like, these guys are going to break down really quick because they're like, oh, they never suffer injuries. They never miss games. Man, look what happened to those two guys.

Like just looking back at it. Like, again, they're still not missing a lot of games, but they broke down hard. Yep. Yeah, they did. So, okay, so we're spinning it forward. Where do the go from here. You know, we've mentioned the idea of a Galchenguk trade. I think that would obviously be a mistake, especially if some of the rumors are true in terms of, you know,

I really don't see a fit there with Minnesota's defensemen because while I like a guy like Marco Scandela, he's much more of a guy you can sort of, you know, just find and replace as opposed to what Galchengu brings to the table. And I definitely think doing it for Joe Chenech, as Brodine would be a massive mistake.

And I just don't see sort of the natural fit. Like I agree that defense is a need and I desperately need a guy who can, who can move the puck. But those guys typically, especially like if they're in their prime, aren't available. So I just don't see the natural trade there if you are going to move Galchaniuk one for one for a guy like that. Yeah, I'm not seeing it there either. I think Scandela is a second pairing guy.

I honestly, I'm not even that high on Brodine who, you know, a lot of people are say is the best of the three Minnesota D that are available, I don't see a fit there. I mean, if they're trading Galchaniak for a defenseman, that would blow my mind because even if they lose Bolu for a third and they lose Davidson in the expansion draft, like the bottom of your lineup for defensemen, you can find ways to get those guys. You know, if they managed to lose Sergatchev and Galcheneck and Bulle, which were like their three biggest trading asses. that's coming in here with the draft being so poorly thought of and they don't get a center,

I am going to laugh so hard. I don't honestly. I'm genuinely curious. I'd love for someone to explain to me why they're as high on Jonas Brodien as they are. Because I think people are still stuck in that, you know, 2012, 13 short and season where I don't remember if he was a Calder finalist or he was on the periphery, but, you know, everyone was super high on him because they just immediately thrust him into this massive role playing with Ryan Suter and he was playing like 25 minutes a night consistently and people were impressed by the fact

that such a young defenseman who was still like 19 or 20 years old of the time was able to shoulder that type of a workload and he really hasn't developed at all in fact I think he's taken steps back since then and I feel like people are just sort of assuming that you know he's a Swedish defenseman and he doesn't put up a lot of points so that must mean that he's really good on I don't in the numbers or on the eye test there isn't anything to actually point to the fact that Jonas Brodeen is a difference making defenseman like he's a perfectly fine third pairing guy I guess and he's not a massive liability but he doesn't actually move the needle at all in any respect so I just don't I just don't see where all the love for him is coming from it feels like it's a lot of this sort of group think mentality where one person might have just said it and then all of a sudden everyone just kind of took it for the truth and has kind of gone with that as something that's not actually really the case in reality. Yeah, it's one of those situations where it seems like it's an idea that just took hold and there's never been any backing of it. And like I watched Brodien a fair amount because Minnesota was a pretty exciting team to watch this year with Bruce Boudreau

behind the helm. I don't see anything in the numbers. Even like looking at the stuff that we have at Sport Logic, I don't see much there to say that he's more than, you know, a middle of the lineup guy. I don't get the love, man. I really don't. I guess he's one of those guys that people assume plays tough competition and therefore he doesn't need to drive play, you know, like Shea Weber light kind of thing. But I don't know, like at least Shea Weber is actually good. Yeah, but there's one thing about like playing tough competition is fine, but if you're not doing anything with those minutes, then what's the point? Like in theory, anyone can just play tough competition. It's like, what are you actually doing with those minutes that's warranting all the love? And he,

doesn't really do anything in those minutes. Yeah. And even if you were playing them even, like, you know, if all you are is a minute eater, yeah, unless you have the horses to, you know, if you're playing a minute eater for like 20 minutes a game, unless you have the horses to go like all out offense when that guy's not on the ice, then those types of players don't make any sense. It's the same as like the theory behind fourth liners, right? What makes more sense trying to build a fourth.

line that just eats some minutes with some grinders and, you know, physically wears down the other team or a fourth line that can actually score. And, you know, how many series in the playoffs this year were won because a fourth line was actually utilized well instead of having, you know, a bunch of knuckle draggers around there. Like, I mean, I think you could argue that the reason why Nashville lost game six and Stanley got final is because they threw McLeod back in there. Like, what was his purpose? There's no reason he should have played that game. Yeah. Yeah, there really wasn't. For free PA Parento, man. Just free him.

Poor PA Parento. It's, like, it was tough to argue for him in the playoffs. As much as like I like PA Parento, talk to him in DMs a lot. I think he's a really good underrated middle of the lineup player, but he definitely was not a good fit in Nashville. I think part of that is the way that they played, Jack Hahn talked about it a lot, that they kind of did a little bit of what Montreal did under Michel Tarian where they like to throw the puck to open space and then win battles with their speed or just outbattling players for the puck.

And the one area that Perrotto doesn't have is speed, right? He's not a speed guy. He's a cerebral type who, you know, makes plays by getting either lost in traffic in front of the net or he'll make a great pass. He's not a speed demon. He definitely is not. But not many of us are.

I'll say that. He's a better skater than I am. Let's say that. Well, yes. Agreed. Same here. So, yeah, in terms of the question of where the Canadians go from here, beyond the Gallich trade, I mean, they're kind of an interesting spot because they have the, you know,

the price contract looming next summer and Pat Schraddy the year after. And they have key contributors like Radulov and Markov who need new contracts this year. And especially in Radulov's case, like he was so remarkably affected for them last year that it's a tough pill to swallow to just, you know, say, well, that was a fun year, but we're going to let him go. We're not going to pick up the tab on this new contract. But at the same time, if, you know, he is asking for a long-term deal, it is, it's definitely off-putting and scary to give him a deal four or five, six years, whatever. So I don't know where they go from that. I guess if you really are in the win now mode, you might just have to bite the bullet and just do that because he helps you.

he gives you a better chance of winning next year and you deal with the consequences later but that's obviously not ideal either yeah i feel like the situation for berjamin is like he he seemed to like kind of throw a shot across the bow for radjolov at the drun uh contract signing a slash news conference uh like acquiring druin gives them a little bit more leverage with radjolov because you know they have a guy who can do most of what radjolov does with the playmaking uh like that was radulov's big thing Montreal last year was he was the one guy who could really dominate East West. They didn't really have anybody else who did that. Galcenaic was good at it, but not as good as Radjolov. Druin is a step above Galchaniac a little bit below Radjolov at that. So it's a big difference maker for them,

but if they really want to improve their offense, they need to keep Galchenec, they need to bring back Radjolov and they needed to acquire Druin. So it might give them a bit more level. leveraging contract negotiations, but it doesn't change anything for them, really. So I know that Radulov was apparently asking for eight years on his contract, which is crazy. But as much as it's crazy down the line, if I'm Mark Bergevant, and I've thrown everything I have by trading Suban for Weber, by trading Nathan Bulliou for scraps, you know, like my average age of my top 4D is 35. I look at the next couple years, Kerry Price is going to be making like $10 million a year. If I pay Radulov right now and for eight more years

and I win a Stanley Cup, am I going to be looking back in six years and say, oh man, I really regret signing Alex Radulov to this long contract? Probably not. Because all he's got to do to cement his legacy forever is win one cup in Montreal. And like people will say if they win one cup, oh, well, two would be great. But this city just wants one.

You know, they want to break that, that 25-year drought. They want that over. And if he's able to do that, like, no one will ever criticize him in the city again, even with the Sub-Band trade. Well, yeah, no, I completely agree with that. And that is sort of the trouble you run into with, you know, how GMs operate because he's definitely in the right to look out for himself and try to win now at all costs. But from an organizational perspective, it's pretty clear that the issues with that. because even if you, obviously if you win, you know, the flags fly forever, but if you fall short and don't, which is much more realistic,

considering how tough it is to win a Stanley Cup, all of a sudden you have nothing to show for it. And, you know, like the Kings, for example, won a couple cups. So they're pretty set in that regard. But Dean Lombardi rides off into the sunset, and now you have Rob Blake just kind of picking up the scraps, and they've got their work cut out for them. And it's just not a great spot to be in as an organization.

Yeah, and you could see, like, you know, if you would go back to the first year that Mark Bergerand took over and the players that he inherited with, you know, he had the third overall pick in the draft, took Galciniac. You know, even if he would have taken Morgan Riley or Philippe Forsberg, who was friggin amazing, you know, he was in a good position there. He inherited P.K. Suban, Carrie Price, Max Patcheretti. You know, like he had a situation where, you know, over the next six to eight years, maybe you're talking. multiple cups. If you're a brilliant GM and you really manage the situation well. So like, you know, with the full benefit of hindsight, even if you were to win one, maybe, you know, you and I would look at it and say, well, you know, it's not the greatest accomplishment. It's good, but there could have been things that were done better. But for everyone else around, it's probably not a big deal. And you know, I think no matter what, the situation that we're in now and you look

the prospect situation, especially on defense, whether or not Bergerman fills out his contract or not, the next guy is going to be left with a major mess. Like, there's no arguing that. Like, this team is built for the next two to three years and that's it. I can't wait for that to happen, like, whatever, however many years down the road. And it would be like some stats guy that takes over and then the team just sucks for a few years because he's digging out of that hole.

And then everyone's like, see, analytics don't work. That's definitely what's going to happen. I mean, even this year, after the playoffs, you know, like Michel Tarian, he had, I think he won out of the first round twice, and Claude Julian didn't. So all of a sudden people were like, oh, well, maybe Claude Julian is not a good coach. Michelle Tarian would have won that series. It's like, oh, God.

Like, so ridiculous. To bring it full circle, the reason they bowed out in the first round was because they took Andreas Martinson out of the lineup. This is true. They were, I guess, one-on-one with him in it. and one and three with him out. I mean, they just gave him that extension, so it must mean that he's a valuable contributor.

He will be in the opening night lineup, I'm sure. Yeah. Okay, before we get out of here, it's obviously not Canadians related, but we should take a few minutes to talk about the Mike Smith trade too. I mean, on first glance, it's a curious move because while he's pretty much a league average guy, and that's perfectly fine,

I don't think he's going to be a liability for the flames. He is also 35 and it's very easy to envision him just like not being a league average guy anymore. And that tends to happen pretty quickly with goalies around that age. And it's also tough to it's tough to make it to spin it as a good move for the flames just because the opportunity costs. Because regardless of the assets they gave up, which was like a third round pick and a prospect defenseman, which isn't necessarily the biggest price. It's also, you know, there's so many cheap, intriguing names available this summer, whether you could have traded for them because the team isn't going to use them as the number one guy

or whether they're free agents like a Steve Mason type that would have seemed like more intriguing options. So it just kind of, it's tough to rationalize it from Calgary's perspective. Yeah, it's a weird one because I think the major problem here is, you know, they didn't like Brian Elliott's inconsistency. So they acquired a goaltender who is pretty much way more inconsistent, right? And it's a different kind of inconsistency because, you know, Elliot within a season is either brilliant or terrible. He doesn't really have very many mid-range games,

and that can be tough to deal with, you know, game-to-game for teams, whereas Mike Smith has seasons where he's either brilliant or abysmal. And, you know, as much as he had, like around a league average, say, percentage last year, the coyotes, were by far the worst defensive team in the NHL last year. They were worse than Colorado, which is impressive considering Colorado was ridiculously bad and embarrassing to watch. But the coyotes were even worse.

And the main reason why the coyotes were respectable for most of the season or even like, remember the beginning of the season when they were almost like in a playoff spot was Mike Smith was actually really good. For the last two years, he's been like well above league average in. like say percentage above expected. He's been really, really good, really consistently good. But like you said at 35, man, anything can happen. He's only signed for two years, so it's not that big of a deal.

His cap hit for the flames, I think it's 4.25. So it's not a crippling contract, but it's, again, one of those situations where the flames went out and got a goalie that's probably going to be okay. you know he's not going to be the game-breaking guy that they're searching for most likely right which is disappointing because i think we both like their roster quite a bit and they were one of the most impressive teams in terms of what they look like at the start of last season and what they look like towards the end of it and you know they dramatically improved and they have a lot working for them and it's one of those things where if they add you know a serviceable sort of second third pairing

defenseman and another winger that can just slot in and play on their top line with goodrow and and Monahan, all of a sudden you're kind of cooking. And I don't think that this is the answer they were looking for in net. And I'm not sure that it's going to be the type of upgrade that they probably think they're getting from what they got from Elliot and Chad Johnson last year. It seems like it's a lot of sort of familiarity-based things with how Brad Tree Living started in Arizona. And it was there when Mike Smith had that one remarkable season. So I don't know. I just, it's one of those things where it's not definitely crippling, as you see,

said or the worst move in the world by any means, but it's also just sort of like a, it's kind of like a block trade. Yeah, it's a bit of a like spinning your wheels kind of situation, right? Like, although I do wonder, the odds are probably super low for this, but say that they, because they traded Chad Johnson, right? Or like he moved somewhere, or maybe he moved in this trade. I remember seeing it, or the rights to him went to Arizona. Let's just pretend, we'll play fantasy for a second, that they keep Brian Elliott and Mike

Smith, that's not a bad situation. If you've got those two guys platooning, you know, you can take some of the stress off the 35-year-old goaltender by playing Brian Elliott 35 to 45 games. I think that's a decent situation. You can just basically go with the hot hand. And I don't think it's likely that Brian Elliott's going to have that bad of a season again. So they might be in a pretty good situation and goal if they keep both of those guys. It's not the worst thing in the world.

I do wonder, though, I think the one thing for Calgary, you know, as much as they need, you know, another winger that they can slot in with Monahan and Goddrow. They got to get somebody to play with T.J. Brody. Right? Like, he's got to get somebody because, man, he was held down by so many anchors last year. Yeah. Yeah. And then even that third pair, I mean, you know, I think England's coming off the books, which is huge, but there's a lot of Matt Bartkowski involved in the operation. Yeah. That's not optimal. So, but I mean, the good, see, this is, it's tricky because I was talking about this the other day.

I was kind of mocking the Sabres bringing in Phil Housley because of just the fact that he's going from this team that had these four just amazing, pretty much number one defenseman that he could play with to make him look like a genius to all of a sudden this team that has probably the worst defense group in the league. And I was talking to Sabers fans. And I was like, well, the silver lining is that it shouldn't be that difficult to add to like dramatically improve. your defense just because there are so many of these undervalued guys that aren't necessarily the

most impressive, but can kind of skate and move the puck and don't hurt you and are definitely legitimate NHLers you can get for cheap, the Mark Barbario types. But then at the same time, it seems like NHL teams are so reluctant to actually go that route and give those guys the chances that there isn't that much reason to believe that your team is willing to kind of break the mold and do that. So it's like the obvious repair is there, but it's like the likelihood of of it actually happening isn't that high. Yeah, I mean, maybe Calgary should have given up a third round pick from Nathan Bulleyer. That'd be a pretty good fit.

It would have been a massive improvement over the guys they were using last year, like the Yerki-Yoki-Pakas and the Anglins and the Bartkowski's and even the Michael Stones. So, yeah, that's why I was surprised that the Canadians were only able to get the third from a division rival. It seems like a team like the Flames and there's a bunch of others. I mean, would have been willing to give up even like a conditional second or something for him.

It's just kind of curious to me. Yeah, it's really weird. And I feel like this is like to kind of bring everything full circle. It's a problem that Montreal has is they they just beat their own players down so hard. And it's not everyone will say like, oh, it's the fans, you know, how hard they are on the team or it's the media. It's not the fans or the media. It's what the organization puts out there. And it's always extremely clear.

You can look at the same couple of sources in the media who the organization, you know, lets little feelers out into saying, like, basically this guy needs to be trashed. This guy, you know, he let us down. He's a problem. You know, we keep hearing how like, you know, every single young player in Montreal has off-ice issues. Well, I'm sure that they're not the only team with players who have off-ice issues, but they're certainly the team that we know about it the most. And not all of that is going to be on the media or because there's a bit more of a tabloidy culture in Quebec, part of it is because the organization lets things get out there on purpose. You know, it's just the way it is. And they have no remorse with that stuff. You know,

like they tried so hard last summer to put stuff out there about Suban. And you could tell who, you know, they were talking to who put stuff out there. But you're like, there was one person reported that he was late for practice 18 times last season. It's like, do you really believe for a second in your head that Michel Tarian would not healthy scratch P.K. Suban once in a season where they have no chance at the playoffs. If he's late for practice

18 times, give me a break. Alex Ovechkin got scratched for being late to practice once. Like, it's so ridiculous. It's so absurd. And the kind of things like the Montreal Canaan are the most crusty, old school, conservative organization and possibly pro sports.

And you think they would give like an assistant captain letter to P.K. Suban, if he's a problem in the room or an off-ice issue, no, man, it's not happening. Yeah, wreaks of some of your campaign when the guy's out the door, for sure. Absolutely. All right, Andrew. I'm glad we, I'm glad we did this emergency weekend reactionary trade freeze, PDOCast. It was fun. I feel better about the moves now and try to make sense them a little bit. And hopefully, the fine folks out there appreciate it as taking time out from our grocery shopping duties.

to do this thing. But yeah, where can people find you online? And then what are you working on these days? Always they can find me on Twitter at Andrew Berkshire. Currently, I'm working on a five-year retrospective of Mark Bergerman's tenure in Montreal for Vice Sports that should be out like shortly after the expansion draft, I think, because it'll depend on who they let go, who they protect, that kind of stuff.

And I'm also starting up my summer project for Sportsnet of the top 20 players at each position. So actually, I'll probably be reaching out to you, Dimitri, to help me do some ranking. Fun stuff, data. Everyone loves lists in ranking. Oh, it's the best. After you get that out, I'm sure we're going to get you back on the podcast to kind of do what we did last summer in ranking the guys because that was one of the funest sort of preseason

things we did early in the year. Absolutely, man. Count me in. All right. Chat soon, buddy. Talk soon. The hockey PDO cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud.com.

slash Hockey PDOCast.