The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 176: Expansion Mock Draft

Episode Date: June 19, 2017

James Mirtle joins the show to help conduct a preliminary mock draft ahead of Wednesday night's highly anticipated expansion festivities. Rather than going through the picks in alphabetical order we instead lumped each of the 30 teams into a five separate categories based on what type of assets they're providing Vegas with: 5:06 Teams with side deals reportedly in place 18:31 Teams with no real appealing options available 26:29 Teams with the one obvious selection that stands alone 47:02 Teams with an established veteran vs. younger alternative 55:54 Teams with a number of different options to choose from Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drisley or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. and he's my good buddy James Verdle.

James, what's going on, man? Not much. It's good to be here. What an exciting two weeks for hockey fans. I mean, it's been the way that social media picked up on Sunday for the release of the protected list was pretty neat to see. Yeah, it's really funny how, you know, we spend the full season working our way towards the Stanley Cup final, deciding on the biggest stage who's going to be crown champion.

and like that entire two weeks or whatever as that series was going on, I felt like people were just like desperately waiting for this period of time here where we can start kind of shifting our sites towards the expansion draft and free agency and entry draft itself. So it's going to be pretty fun. I mean, it's content heaven for people like you and I because there's so much to discuss. Yeah, I remember when I was running my own site and it was kind of doing league-wide stuff, it was all in July, like end of June, early July that was the highest,

traffic peak for NHL coverage of the whole year, which is crazy because there's no games then, but that's, this is one really when people really get tuned in, dialed in, and it's so weird in hockey where the first round of the playoffs is really like the biggest

spike, and then the rest of the playoffs, like you said, it kind of fades, and then now it really picks up again, and the weather's finally getting nice in Toronto, but we're all paying attention to what's happening in the NHL, so. Well, it's just nice that, I I feel like this is just like fun, exciting, optimistic stuff to talk about.

I feel like during the season we spend so much time discussing just like silly things, like offside reviews and coaches challenges and goalie interference and all this stuff that just like makes your head spinning. You're just like, oh, are we actually doing this again? But now, like, this is all exciting. It feels like there's an array of hope with this Vegas franchise coming in because the possibilities are a bit of current analysis if you think about it. Could you imagine being George McPhee and the staff?

I talked to some of the stuff there, and it's just like, what a glorious opportunity to start from scratch. It's like doing your fantasy hockey draft times a billion, and you're going to actually see the results on the ice. I don't know. What a dream job. I hope at some point I get to be the GM of an expansion team. Well, yeah, don't we all. I mean, and, you know, we do need to give the NHL a little bit of credit here because it's, I know we spend a lot of time questioning a lot of the decision-making and how they run their business. but it's pretty clear that they've learned from past expansion draft failures or hiccups.

And I think I'm, I don't know, I don't know how you feel about this team. We're obviously going to discuss what it's going to look like more here as the show goes on. But I'm pretty optimistic about it. You know, I think they're going to be decently competitive right out of the gate. And I think that the future is very bright, assuming they do the right thing and take a longer-term approach. Yeah, I'm interested to see what kind of. have a team you end up with. I think that once, and obviously we're going to talk about this a lot, but I think once we see what all the side deals are and stuff, I think the actual roster they're

going to have is going to be weaker than people are expecting. Some people are looking at the available player lists and the protected list and saying, holy cow, they're going to have all these guys. And the other thing, too, that I've noticed is that some teams have, like Minnesota has a whole is that I'd be interested in taking, but you can only get one. It's not like you can take three wild players and you can have Eric Stahl and Dumbah and Scandala. and you only get one of those guys. Florida's got a whole bunch of interesting players, but you only get one of them.

And then there's a whole bunch of team. There's guys, no, I wouldn't want anything from those teams, and they're going to have to take somebody. Yes, yeah. Okay, so I thought we would devote this show to doing something resembling a mock draft. Obviously, you know, we're acknowledging the monkey wrench thrown into things

with all the side deals, and, you know, there's going to be a certain number of players, as you mentioned, that are technically listed as being on, protected but actually aren't and when we get around to them we'll kind of try to work around it but I think this is more to be used as a bit of a thought exercise to get the wheels in motion and get us thinking about what this team's going to look like philosophically as opposed to some sort of a definitive list that they're going to enter the 2017-18 season with so uh without it without

without the way are you ready to do this thing yeah when I think what we can do is that if there's a side deal we think with some of these guys we can just say who the second choice should be or yeah let's do do it. So we do an alphabetical order? Well, so this is what I thought would be more interesting because we could do alphabetical order, but I thought that, you know, that would be a bit all over the place and take too long. Instead, I put the teams into like four or five different groups based on sort of similarities with what they're providing or the situation they're in from Vegas's perspective. And I thought we could kind of just discuss them that way. And, you know,

I think we should just get the teams that we suspect have side deals right out of the way because I think that's just the easiest way to do this thing. And, you know, the team that's obviously going to jump into the forefront here are the Anaheim Ducks because when you're mocking out what this team could look like, it would obviously look significantly better if you put Josh Manson or Sammy Vatinin on to it because they'd instantly just become the facto number one defenseman on this projected Vegas Golden Knights team. And it seems like they're both off the board here because the ducks have struck some sort of a side

deal. I'm very fascinated to see what that side deal looks like because I think the ducks are going to have to pay a pretty exorbitant price. Like if Vegas is doing this right, they could really just essentially like ask for the world because I mean, Vatten and Manson are both good players in their own right. But for Vegas to stay away from both of them, I just, I can't imagine what the ducks are going to have to give them to make that thing happen, especially since there isn't really an obvious third player available for Vegas to take instead. Right. That's what I was going to say.

You look at what the, like if there was someone, there's talk about Columbus having a side deal as well, and it's like, well, at least you're going to get, there's a player that makes sense for them to take after they protect a couple of guys. Anaheim, that's not the case. So you're basically going down from, I mean, I like Josh Manson, that's who I would take if he was available. But you're going from a Josh Manson who, like you said,

can be playing your top pair right away. And what are you getting? So, you know, I think it's going to have to be more than, like, a first-round pick. Atlanta's first-round pick is going to be right near the end of the first round? I don't know if that's enough to justify not taking Manson, is it? No, I think it's going to have to be some sort of a package. I mean, I've seen people speculate that it would involve. I don't think Brandon Montour is going to be available, but maybe someone like a Shea Theodore

or even a Jacob Larsson, who was a first-round defenseman they took earlier, or Sam Steele, who they took in the first round last year and really exploded in junior this season. and it would be something like one of those guys and a first and something else. It's just, I mean, I love. That makes more sense. I love Josh Manson, and I also really, really like Sammy Bannon as well. I'd love to have both guys on my team. But, you know, from Vegas' perspective,

if the ducks are willing to give you this package that involves like three or four premium assets, all of a sudden, that's a pretty good way to start considering you have, you know, you're starting from scratch essentially if you're the Golden Knights. There's some of these teams like the ducks that are in. in win now mode with their core Getslap and Kessler and Perry that are getting older and they need to keep going for it and they're probably going to overpay

to keep, you know, more NHL-ready guys than some of the guys you're talking about that we're playing in San Diego this year in the HL and they were looking at moving a bunch of those young defensemen. I heard their name and rumors all year

so it doesn't surprise me that that's the kind of move they're going to make but imagine if Vegas and it sounds like they are imagine if Vegas makes like eight of those kind of deals how many good prospects are going to well yeah that's that's that's the fascinating thing here i mean realistically i mean there's three or four other teams here we're going to mention that that we suspect they have side deals with and they could come out of this with like three or four first round picks and all of a sudden um you know you're you're you're kind of the draft really is a crap shoot and it's a numbers game

and their lottery tickets but if you're accumulating a bunch of those all of a sudden you like your chances of at least hitting one home run and and getting a guy who's going to wind up being a really good player for you moving forward. Some people are saying they could have six first round picks. It's crazy what people around the league are talking about with Vegas right now. George McPhosephi just stay up there on the podium during that Friday, first day of Friday. Yeah, well, it's too bad the draft isn't in Vegas, I guess. Yes, yes, exactly.

So, yeah, I mean, I just, I guess we have to assume that they have struck that deal. they're not, they're not going to take either of these guys. It's tough. It's so tempting to just put Josh Madsen on this team because all of a sudden it looks so much nicer if you're projecting and moving forward. But I think if they are getting like that shade theater type and then picks as well, that's an interesting spot for that. It doesn't really matter who they pick then, right?

Like who cares who they take off this available list? Yeah, it was between like Nicholas Cordillas or like Logan Shaw. It was basically just going to be a throw in for them, kind of like a depth filler just because of the technicality. They have to pick one of these guys, but it's not going to be an impact player. So the Columbus Blue Jackets are the second team I had in this group, and it seems like, you know, Aaron Portsline's reported that it's basically Columbus is going to give them that first round pick,

which I think is either 24th or 26th overall, and they're basically just telling them to either take William Carlson or Matt Calvert, I presume. That's what it sounds like. Right, yeah. And, I mean, they want a bunch of guys protected as well, right? They don't want Corpus Allo to be taken. I guess Jack Johnson is potentially off the table on the side deal,

although I know some analytics folks probably would say don't take him. You know what I was thinking looking at some of these lists is that teams like Minnesota and Columbus that are built not with high-end guys like Chicago and Pittsburgh, but are built with depth and really good third and fourth lines. They kind of get punished more than other teams because they seem to give up better players than a lot of other teams. Yeah, it's kind of the blessing. in the curse of your really good team,

but then that means you have really good players that you're going to lose some of, and I guess that's just what you've got to deal with. I still think it's probably better than the alternative would just be like one of these teams, like theirs on a car you do or something who just have nothing to take from because they're just a very, very bad hockey team.

But it's like, like it's not even like Minnesota is a really, really great team. Like they're good, but they're not. You know, some of these, like, good teams that are built a little bit differently might lose better players than, You know, it's almost like Florida, Columbus, Minnesota could lose the best players. And not Pittsburgh, it's not, you know, Washington or, I mean, I guess Washington's going to lose a decent player too.

But anyway, so I don't know who they're going to end up with Columbus because it sounds like they're protecting a whole bunch of these guys on the available list. Well, so I wonder, is it's been rumored also that David Clarkson's contract is going to be thrown into this? Like, that seems like a pretty decent deal for Columbus if they're giving up a late first to shed that much money, which it's, it's a very good. also reported might open the door for them bringing in a guy like Ilya Kowochuk and free agency and then also protecting Corpusallo and a number of other guys and basically just giving away like a fourth line player like that seems like I'm generally against overvaluing your own assets and giving up premium picks just to keep your own guys but from Columbus's perspective that type of a deal actually seems to make a lot of sense yeah it does I mean we

don't know the full what I'm hearing is that for Vegas to eat a big salary, and there's a whole bunch of teams that are looking at trying to get them to do that, they're charging a lot for that. So the team that I heard yesterday was Tampa Bay is looking at doing that. In terms of big salaries they've got, I mean, I guess it could be Ryan Callahan or maybe Jason Garrison or someone like that. Tampa's cap space is a bit tight. But the other team that I think might do this is Dallas, because they've got the three goalies. I mean, Dallas would love to have Vegas claim one of those goalies. probably Letton, Kerry Leiden

But, I mean, what would they have to pay for that to happen? It's going to be really fascinating when that team's announced because I think there's going to be a bunch of big, bad contracts that they've taken, and we don't know the full ramifications of why Vegas has done that until afterward. Yeah, no, that's a good point. All right, let's move off of Columbus here, because I feel like we've talked as much about William Carlson and Matt Calvert as we can at this point.

Yeah, the New York Island. Like William Carlson? Yeah, no, I do too. And I mean, his nickname is Wild Bill. I mean, he's a former top prospect. He's shown an intriguing upside. I think that, you know, he's the obvious pick there. With the Islanders, they're the most confusing of the bunch

because I've heard so many mixed reports on, like it sounds like they're giving up their first round pick for sure, which seems a bit crazier considering none of the players they're protecting are that, you know, that impressive. And it's going to be a decent, like, mid-first-round pick as well. Yeah. And, you know, they went with a interesting approach of protecting five defensemen,

one of whom was Adam Pelick, who I think they, you know, could have left unprotected without worrying about him being claimed. But I don't know. And then De Haun isn't protected. Yeah, and Thomas Hickey. And then obviously all their forwards guys like Bailey and Strom and Brock Nelson. And so, you know, we've heard rumors that their first is going to, you know, steer Vegas away from their forwards and then that might leave a guy like

Calvin DeHaan available or that might include DeHon as well and then all of a sudden Vegas needs to take either Thomas Hickey or you know a less desirable contract like like Casey Zizekis or something like I don't know where do you where do you think this is going and have you heard anything about what those protections actually are no not really I mean they're picking high right I mean I look at this draft because the Leaps are 17 I've looked really closely at the middle the first round. And while there's a lot of talk about this not being a good draft or a deep draft or whatever, I think you can get a really good player in the middle of the first round.

I mean, it's kind of like the talent that you're going to get at about seventh, eighth, ninth overall is pretty similar to what you're going to see around 14, 15, 16. So if they can get into that range, you know, just for not taking some of the Islanders players, I mean, that seems like a good deal for Vegas. And they obviously have the six overall pick already, too. But the guys I like on the available list is like, like, if they could get a Brock Nelson, I mean, that guy can step in and be a really key piece of, you know, my concern with Vegas as forwards are going to be exceptionally weak. I wonder if they're going to be active in free agency or what they're going to do.

But if Nelson is protected, as I assume he probably is by the side deal, and DeHan is protected, then, you know, it gets a little bit dice here. Maybe they can get a Josh Bailey and give them more ice time and see if they can get more out of a guy that used to be considered a top prospect. Or even a Ryan's Ryan Strom, I mean, you know, the, when I was putting together the list of what this team could look like, you're right, the forwards. Like, they're going to have a couple of lines and certainly players that are sort of like feisty, valuable depth guys, like second, third line types, but they're sorely lacking the sort of top of the line offensive talent that's going to be able to, you know, drag their line mates along with them and really move the needle. And they're just going to have to get creative by obviously getting as many drafts as they can and hoping they hit a whole. run with one of those guys and then taking some of these guys that have either been stuck in the

hl or down in the depth chart on their NHL teams and just hoping that by giving them more ice time and better line mates they're going to realize that potential yeah yeah no i think that's the the toughest thing for them is going to be generating goals unless something happens that i'm not seeing in free agency or something yeah yeah no i agree with that um the last team that i have on this group of teams with suspected side deals is the Chicago Blackhawks. And, you know, this was like the first sort of rumblings we'd heard. This was weeks ago that there's some sort of a deal involved where the Blackhawks are basically going to get them to take on Kruger's contract and Trevor Van Riemsday's

going to be involved. I guess I'm okay with that. Like, I would have, you know, in an ideal world, I would have personally just gone with a guy like Vili Poka instead and not taking on that type of money on guys that I don't think are that useful. But I'm, you know, getting Kruger and Trevor Rand and Reimsdike isn't the end of the world. They're both sort of decent end of the, end of the roster contributors and it is what it is, I guess. Interesting play maybe on Chicago's part where it's like, we'll give you two useful players

for us to keep a more, who we, someone we perceive as a more valuable prospect that we definitely want to keep because, you know, I don't know, Trevor Van Ramesdike watching him. I'm not sure what, his ceiling doesn't seem super high. He might just be a third person. guy. I know that people in Chicago are getting kind of frustrated watching him, and I think we all know what Marcus Kruger is. I mean, he's a defensive fourth-line center, so, you know, it doesn't seem like they're getting super high there, but again, we need to see the full kind of package that they get in order to decide if it's worth it or not. Yeah, and the thing is, I mean, this is the great example of what you were talking about how some of these teams are built, because the Blackhawks

are such a top heavy team with so much of their money devoted to. to the stars and, you know, past the top guys that they're protecting, there really isn't much to pick from. I mean, beyond, beyond Kruger and Van der Leams, like, it's pretty bleak. There's very few guys that you could all of a sudden bring in and actually expect anything, anything, any reasonable contributions from. Yeah. Well, in a way, that's good. I mean, teams like people can't really afford to lose too many more quality players,

given what's happened to their roster the last few years. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. Okay, so I'm going to provide a couple options with you in terms of which bucket we dive into next. Do you want to go with the teams, do you want to get the teams out of the way that don't really have anyone appealing, and we can just cross them off and just pick whoever? I think that's the way to go here rather than saving it. Okay.

Let's do lightning around fast on those teams, though, so we don't spend too much time. Okay. We're going to do, we're going to do 30 seconds. How many do you have? Five. Oh, that's it. Okay. I have five, and we're going to do 30 seconds each one-minute tops.

If you go over, there's going to be a buzzer that sounds, and it's not going to be pleasant for us or the listeners. Okay, the Arizona Coyotes. It's between Timu Pocan and an Alex Bermistroft, basically, right? Pocan and just bounced on waivers a whole bunch of times. What about, like, Louis Doming? Maybe he's, I mean, I know they're going to have lots of goalies. Yeah, I'm not, I know that you wrote about this,

and I completely agree that an interesting strategy for Vegas is to, sort of corner the market this summer with a goaltending and just take four or five of these guys and hope either, you know, see who pans out or try and flip them for future assets. But I'm not very optimistic about Louis DeMang as being in. Yeah, well, he's about seventh on my goalie depth chart. So it's just with some of these teams where there's nothing else to take, you know, maybe that's a guy who can be your number three goalie and he plays in your HL team or something like that. Yeah, I was going to say maybe just take Poccanin and hire like that.

the best skating trainer in the world and hopefully improve his skating a little bit and maybe all of a side get yourself a cheap interesting goal score but yeah yeah i don't mind that idea but i just with so many teams kind of passing on him i wonder yeah it is one of those things is it's disappointing because you know he's he was a very analytically friendly guy in terms of how many shots he generated and how well he was playing at the hl and you sort of use the uh the projections and try to extrapolate that production to the nchl level and all of a sudden he looks like he could be a full contributor but it does seem like he's one of those you know four a type players uh as a baseball term where yeah just can't get to the same spots and can't get the same type of breathing room

that he got got at the lower levels and all of a sudden that just dramatically decreases his uh what he's able to do on the ice so uh i right i think i think the buzzers yeah yeah yeah no we're done with the buffalo sabers um so similarly i took linus almark uh with that same sort of philosophy that you took louis demand with because i don't i'm not i'm not not infatuated with a guy like William Carrier, for example. So why not just take Lina's Allmark and hopefully he bands out? Yeah, the only thing that interests me about Carrier is that Buffalo fans seem to be a bit worried about that they're going to lose him.

So maybe there's something there that I didn't see this season. But I like Allmark too. I mean, big guys, some good numbers in the minors. I'm big on Swedish goalies in general. I think that they project really well. So, yeah, I don't mind that. Honestly, like, I don't know if we're going to talk about this at the end or not, but, like, I would take a lot of goalies, you know,

and if you end up not getting anything for them, I don't think it's the biggest deal, but if you can get second and third round picks for those guys, that's more than you're going to get for the skaters that the Buffalo's got available here. Yeah, I have to be honest, though, if you could get Cody Franzen, who's currently a UFA and on a cheap deal

just because no one else wants him, I would be okay with that as an alternative for what you're getting from the Sabres. Sure, but you probably don't need to claim him in order to sign him, right? That's true. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. better asset ban.

But the other, the other option they have, like they have to take a guy from some of these teams. So if there's literally nothing they want, they can just take a pending UFA, and then they're not tied to a contract with that guy. Right. Yeah, that's fair. Okay, I'm glad we got the Sabres out of the way in under 30 seconds.

That was good. The next team here is the Edmonton Oilers. And I have one name here, and I think that it could be sort of a mutually beneficial thing where Vegas takes Benwapuil, odds contract and he has two years left four million per and obviously he's not worth that but maybe the oilers throw them some sort of a you know second to third round pick or whatever to take that contract and Vegas puts him in more of a scoring top six role and all of a sudden you know next

year in in at the trade deadline he could become a guy who you could move as a as a rental so I think that's the best case because I you know Griffin reinhardt is someone who has been speculated on but I just don't really think there's anything there at this point. I know some Edmonton fans are worried about Jujar Kaira. Yeah. Maybe I'm butchering his name. But, you know, that's, I mean, I know he didn't have huge production in the HL, but he's a big kid, and I know that they see him as a potential piece.

So I like the Puli I pick's okay, too, because he's a guy. I think some of these guys, Vegas could take, play them in a relatively high role. They're going to produce more than they have typically in an NHL career, and you can potentially trade them at the deadline and get get an asset back for them that way. Yeah, I mean, we've seen time and time again that's so much of this stuff for a lot of the guys that are sort of stuck in that in that middle range in terms of ability and productivity is usage. And if you give them some nice minutes playing with other good skilled players and give them a bunch of power play time, like you could easily see Benoit Goliath score like 25 goals and all of a sudden become a useful trade piece.

Right. And that's what we've seen with the Leafs is, you know, PA Parento did that. And, you know, they brought in some of those kinds of. and they gave them opportunity and some of them took advantage of it. Okay, the Los Angeles Kings. I had Braden McNabb here. I guess you could make an argument for someone like Nick Shore, but it's not great.

They're another one of these teams that's very top-heavy, and even some of the guys, like they protected a Derek foreboard, and you're just like, is this really the point that we've gotten to with this team who was winning Cups not too many years ago? That seems like it. I kind of like Nick Shore. I might take a chance on him. I know he's going to be 25 September, so he's a bit old, but he did play three years of college.

So, you know, he could be a bit of a late developing guy. I think that there's more offensive ability there than we've seen. He had over a point of game in the HL a couple of years ago. So I might take a chance on a guy like that, and you talk about giving someone more ice time and more opportunity. I think that potentially he could be more than what we've seen so far. Yeah, you know, especially. I mean, he was playing on that, you know, bottom six with guys like Trevor Lewis and Kyle Clifford and White King and stuff.

So yeah, I agree. If you give him some better minutes, he could be useful. The Vancouver Canucks, I guess, Brendan Gons, he's a failed former first rounder who could be a decent sort of possession fourth line type. But yeah, I guess he's really like the only appealing option. They don't even have any sort of contracts that you could do a Benwapulio type of thing with since they chose to protect Brendan Sutter for some reason. So, yeah, the Canucks are an interesting run group at this.

point. What about like some of these young defensemen like Biaga or Pettin or I mean you would know these guys better than me is there anything there at all? I don't think so I think I think you know taking a guy like Brennan Gons and and he's still in his early 20s and it could be a useful depth than each other and maybe something more develops there but if not at least he has a place in the league I think that's probably the the route they should go here. This guy's one of my favorite stories born a Rendulik

from Croatia. Yep. Yeah, former, he was on the abs for a while, I believe. Yeah. Not that I'm saying they should take on. I just wanted to point him. I wanted to point him out. Just for the stories. He's from Croatian NHL player. That's amazing. That's true. Yeah, good point. Okay, so I think we're done with this group, and I think we actually did a pretty good job. The buzzer only really went after we got into that spirited Timu Polkin in discussion.

Okay, so let's do the teams that have won up. obvious player that I believe stands out from the rest and there's like seven or eight teams here. The Boston Bruins, it's Colin Miller here, right? Like, he is an analytical darling who keeps posting great possession numbers and it's weird that seems to have fallen out of favor with the Bruins and they never really gave him the proper amount of ice time and usage considering that he also matches the eye test or he's this big guy who can still skate and move the puck and has legitimate skills. and I just don't understand why he sort of never really got the type of opportunity that he should have in Boston.

Yeah, I think that that's fair. Have you ever heard of like the, I think it's called the Joe Smith theory? I can't remember who put it forward. I think it was Colby Cosh or someone like that. The Joe Smith theory is that if you have a name like Joe Smith, it's harder for you to stand out, especially if you're kind of like one of those guys. So maybe a Colin Miller, not a lot of people know about around the league just because his name is Colin Miller. I think that, yeah, I completely buy that.

I mean, he doesn't really seem like a sexy type of pick or sexy type of asset, but he's got good numbers. He matches that when you watch him play, and he seems like he would be one of those guys where if they put him on their second pair and actually gave him the right type of usage, you could really spread his wings and do some good stuff for them. The Bruins protected Kevin Miller, but not Colin Miller. Yeah, yeah, their priorities are in an interesting spot,

and so is there a talent evaluation, But just let's leave it at that. Someone posted the draft list last year for the first round, and only three players, or was it two years ago? What was the year that the Bruins had the three picks all in a row? Anyway, someone posted the, yeah, two years ago. It was when the least took Marner. And all of the players at the top of that draft had all played in the NHL

except for the three Bruins picks. So if you go look at that on Hockey D.V., it's kind of funny. Yeah, that's remarkable. Okay, the Carolina Hurricanes. It's Lee St. Empniak here. we've discussed this online it seems like it really is his destiny to

get drafted by the Vegas here get used what nicely be pretty productive and all of a sudden get traded yet again at the traded line as a as a rental asset and then get another contract from some other team next summer as well so it seems like we could really just you know least EMPNAC playing for all 31

NHL teams isn't play at this probably he's 34 I don't think he's gonna it's too bad you know least MNiak's a super nice guy I got to know a little bit when he played for the Leafs. And we always talked about suitcase Cillinger with Mike Cillinger. He's got a chance to surpass Mike Cillinger. Cillinger played for 12 NHL teams. Stemney had a 10 right now.

So if he plays for Vegas and then another team at the deadline, he'll be at 12. And as you said, if he gets another contract next year at 35, then he can set the record. I don't know if that's on his bucket list to set that record, to be honest. But can you imagine how many different houses he's owned and how many different places he's lived? And I get confused when I'm in like four different hotel rooms in the span of like eight days. I can't imagine living in that many different cities and playing for that many different teams. His man cave in the basement probably has like, like, he can, like, wallpaper the entire thing around with all the jerseys he's worn.

Yeah. And he's, he's cursed by the, you know, it's a perfect storm because he is a very useful NHL player, but he's not so good that, like, he needs to stay on one team. So, it guess it makes sense that, uh, that he's moved around as much as he has. Just like Mike Sanger. same kind of in Lino. The Dallas Stars, I included them here because I think if you're picking a player, I would take someone like Cody Eakin. I know that he had a dreadful season last year and was injured

and nothing really came together for him. But if you look at the track record before that, it's pretty promising. And he's on a reasonable contract. And the Vegas Knights really need guys who can play down the middle so he could fill a hole there. But as you mentioned, if Dallas is willing to get into some sort of a deal where they give up an asset and get them to take on a goalie contract, I could see that as well.

And it's not like I'm so in love with Cody Eakon that I would forego taking on future picks just so I could have him. So obviously Vegas is going to be strong in gold. They're going to get some good goaltenders there. They're probably going to have too many goalies. Let's say they take Kerry Lettenant and his huge contract, and they don't have room to play him. Like, is there potential that either he plays in the minors

or he goes back to Europe and then the contract, they don't have to pay him all that money or like I just wonder what's going to happen in that situation if they do agree to take Lennon if like I wonder if he just goes back and plays in Finland or something yeah it's possible I mean it seems like it would it would be a pretty big

ego killer and a pretty big step down for him to be playing in the HL at this point of his career but I guess we've seen it with guys like Yaro Halak and stuff so it's certainly possible I'm not sure how that would play out but I think if they did take on his contract based on the other options they're going to have especially in terms of youth and guys they want to give more playing time

to it seems unlikely that Carrey Latin would actually play any games for this team I look at like some of the D that Dallas is making available like Jamie Alexiak's a guy that's interesting just because of the size that he bring Patrick Nemeth has had like really serious injuries but I know that they're high on him there in Dallas

you know if there's not a side deal maybe one of those guys could be a depth defenseman for Vegas yeah I'm still willing to give Cody Eken a shot I think if we were having this discussion last summer he would be a no-brainer probably wouldn't have even been left unprotected. So I like the idea of buying low on these guys,

even though you are taking on that contract of his and seeing where it goes and hoping that he reverts back to his career norms versus what he did last year. The Detroit Red Wings, I think this was the biggest misstep in the entire protection process, and I have absolutely no idea what they were doing or what they were thinking when they protected Jimmy Howard over Prater and Razek other than good old Kenny

Holland again showing off his loyalty to veterans and guys that have been around there for a long time. I think what it shows is that they're not that high on Peter Morazek. They just don't, he had a really tough year last year and I think it soured them on him, but you know

you and I both know how variable goalie performance can be and it could have just been a down year and that what he had done in the previous seasons could be more reflective of what he actually is. So yeah, I mean, I like taking a bet on him, whether he ends up playing for you or whether you trade him to someone else.

He's the kind of guy. He's a young goaltender that I think that, you know, other teams are going to be interested in. I have a theory, and I think that, you know, it's going to be something that's going to be impossible to really prove until we do have full-time tracking data and we can really just map this stuff out systematically. But with a guy like Petter and Marzik, who is, you know, so active in net and he is all about movement-based sort of like a Jonathan Quick type, for those.

type of guys it's we never really talk about the interplay between them and the defensemen in front of them like we talk about you know shot quality and how many high danger opportunities are giving up but just the fact that he didn't really have guys around that could sort of you know protect him from those east-west passes when he was out of his crease and and clean up the rebounds like we saw throughout this playoff run what Nashville's blue line was able to do for a guy like pecorine in terms of really insulating him and helping him look a lot better than he actually was. And, you know, if a guy like Pecoranay was playing behind this Detroit Red Wings blue line, I think that his numbers would just fall off the map.

And I just, I'm not surprised at all that Petter Marzik had a rough year, considering what was going on in front of him. But I would also, once again, bet on the track record with him. And whether it was the OHL or the ECHL or the ECHL or the AHL or even limited time in the NHL over the past six years prior to last year, he was one of the best goalies in the league pretty much everywhere he played. So he's like 24, 25 years old, and it just seems like putting too much stock into what happened last year is just a really bad miscalculation.

But considering the way the Red Wings have been operated the past few years, I can't say that I'm overly surprised by that. You look at the games he has played in the NHL. He's played about 100 if he include the playoffs. You're right. I mean, before last season, he had played about 100 games and a safe percentage of over 920. I mean, that would put him among obviously the sample size is smaller than you

but that would put him in pretty high. Even if you clued last year, 9.01, say a percentage last year, he's at 9-13 for his career. That's not that bad. I mean, if he ends up being a 9-13 guy, that's fine as a backup goalie. So, yeah, I think you're right. I think he deserves another shot.

So I don't know if you're thinking that Vegas's net-minded tandem would be flurry and Marazic, but if it ends up being that way, I think that would be totally fine. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, just see if one of those guys does really well or garners a lot of interest, and all of a sudden they become a very trade-ableness.

asset. So I think that's a no-brainer from their perspective. The National Predators I think just based on what we've discussed about how sorely they're going to be lacking offensive talent and guys that can generate goals, I think James Neal's a no-brainer here especially he's on the last year of his deal

and he seems like he would be a guy that could potentially even fetch like a first round pick at the trade deadline. So I think you just got to take him here even though they do have some other younger intriguing options. Yeah, that's the thing. Like I just like, to would depend on what you think the ceiling is for guys like Pontus,

Eberg. Like, is he going to be, just because Vegas's window where they're going to be more competitive is a couple of years from now, if you feel like one of these younger, or Colton Sizzins or who obviously really stood out in the playoffs, like if you think those guys are going to be, you know, second line guys, they're going to be impact players.

You know, I can see certainly looking at that. But, yeah. Yeah. I mean, it depends how heavily they weight being competitive right away. Right. But like I said, I think that, you know, Neil isn't that nice little kind of best of both worlds zone for them, where he'll help them right out of the gate, but we'll also serve them well in the trade market. And I think that that sort of puts them over the top for me here because I just, you're right,

you do have to weigh those things and you sort of got to look at what the sort of opportunity cost is here because you can only take one guy from each of these teams. but I still think that Neil plus whatever he nets you at the trade-ed line is more valuable, although Aberg certainly did, or I've been corrected by my Swedish followers, I believe it's Aberg, looks promising and definitely has that type of game-changing speed that we've seen can be so impactful in these games in this modern NHL. So I would think long and hard about him, but I went with Neil here. I lean towards going like almost all young guys and just the team being absolutely

terrible and but I can see why they don't want to do that. Yeah, it's tough. They're going to get, they're going to get so many picks and prospects and everything through all these side deals anyway, so I would lean towards, anyway.

I mean, James Neal does make sense in that you're going to be able to move him for something. I guess the question is, whatever pick you get for him, is it worth more than another player you could take? And the interesting thing is, you know,

I would, I would believe that, in theory they could move him for a decent return before he even plays a game for them but at the same time it's weird if that's the case why national wouldn't have just done that themselves then right right unless they they were just kind of banking on the fact that they do want to protect auburg and we're thinking that if neil is also exposed then vegas would just lean towards taking him instead but i could see that sort of thought process but i'm not sure what uh what they were thinking in that regard uh the new jersey devils um so i'm assuming

based on what you just said about Neil and how you'd rather go all young, you wouldn't take my Camilleri here? Well, it just depends what the other options are. Like, I just, like, what are we calling him, Aberg or Aberg? I just, what I saw from him in the playoffs was, like, really intriguing.

And for that to be available for an expansion team, a player like that could potentially be, his numbers in the H.L. were really good this year. And I don't know that the devils have someone like that, Is this intriguing an option over a Camelary? You can correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, it's like a Beau Bennett type who at this point we know was going to be sort of third line,

fourth line player who's who's nice and he posted really nice underlying numbers this year for the devils. But I think with Camilleri, he has two years left on his deal, so he's not an expiring contract. But, you know, he basically shot a career low last year, so his stock is at an all-time low. And if you figure that that's going to bounce back to more resembling his career norms, he could be in line for a really nice season, but the problem with him is he's so injury-prone that it's also quite possible that he just never sort of plays long enough or well enough for you to wind up flipping him down the road.

Yeah, that's the kind of gamble you can afford to take, though, with how much cap space they're going to have. Yep. You know. I've always had less softball for Mike Amelier as a player. He's a fun guy to watch. He's always been more productive than I feel like people believe and maybe because of his contract or because what's been asked of him,

people have soured on him. But he's a productive, useful player. And with how sorely they're going to be lacking offense here, I think he could really be a nice little shot in the arm for them. So I went with Camilleri here just because there aren't really any other appealing options. He's a great personality, too. I think he would fit in really well in Vegas. I think that he would sell really well to the fans if he's a guy

playing on your Powerboy in your first line. and more so than, I mean, James Neal kind of has the reputation for being a little bit of a sour guy. I don't know. I mean, if you're thinking about it from that perspective, and you're trying to rehabilitate a guy, I mean, both those guys are getting up there, though. I mean, James Neal, it's going to be 30. Camillary's closer to 35, so I agree with you. I mean, Bo Bennett doesn't excite me too much, so I think that that's the direction I would go would be Camerre.

That's fair. The St. Louis Blues, you know, I said Petter Marzic being exposed was the worst thing I saw in these protected lists. The Blues protecting Ryan Reeves over David Perron or even Dimitri Askin or even a Magnus Piarby. I mean, it's hard to defend. I'm all for good guys in the room and stuff like that, but it's a puzzling decision on their part. Are they just trying to get out of a contract maybe? Yeah, like I know that they've had cap issues. I don't know.

It's possible. It's pretty weird. But I mean, with a guy like Perron, for example, I mean, he is on an expiring deal. He's making 3.75 next year, you know, from Vegas' restrictive. He seems like great trade bait, and he could, like, be their first line left winger or second line left winger and be nice. He's basically exactly what we just talked about with James Neal and Michael Camilleri. And he's not making that much money.

So I'm cool with taking a chance on him. But, you know, if you want to go more purely high upside, Dmitri Askin's always been a guy that's intrigued me, hasn't really shown it at the NHL level yet, but had good AHL numbers and sort of has that big power forward profile. The team seemed to stumble over themselves trying to acquire. So, yeah, I could see more opportunity too, right? Like, he hasn't really gotten a lot of minutes or anything.

Well, that's the thing with the Blues. They've, you know, for years they've had so many, because they've drafted well, so they've had so many intriguing forwards, coming up in the pipeline like you know a guy like tie ratty for example has been in their system and obviously bounced around a waivers last year but another guy who produced at every level before but it could just never get an opportunity because of how many guys were ahead of him on the pecking order right right and now it looks like that's i remember last year looking at this and i was thinking

ty rati could be a target for vegas and then we're not even talking about him just because of the year that he had yeah yeah there's better options i've either yaskin or per on there i'm cool with um with the tampa bay lightning i have slater kuku here but as you alluded to earlier, if Tampa Bay, who could desperately use the cap space, if they are willing to give up an asset to get rid of either Brian Callahan's contract or even Jason Garrison at this point, I could see that being a very interesting mutual,

mutually beneficial deal for both squads. Yeah, it seems like something is happening there. I mean, people were saying that there's lots of rumors around the lightning right now. So it's interesting, though, if you look at their cap situation, it's better than you think, without having this re-signed Drew-Anne. I mean, obviously, they're going to have to give Johnson and Platt new deals,

but then they still have cap space after that. So if they're also moving out Garrison, to me that says they're going to make a big play for something else. Yeah, and that would make sense. And listen, I think even if they don't do anything, they're going to bounce back to sort of resuming their contender status next year, but if they could get creative and free up some more money and do some other interesting stuff to bring in some other pieces there,

all of a sudden they could really put themselves over the top. So I would be exploring that if I were them. I think they're going to be pretty aggressive. I think they're going to really try. The other name that interests me is Jake Dachkin, just because I saw him a lot in the HL this year, and he played against the Marley's quite a bit. And he's a guy that pisses off the other team a lot

and has a reputation for some dirty hits. But a lot of promise there. So I think the question would be you ask your scouts, do you like Kaku or do you like Dux? Dodgekin better. Yeah. I was talking about this with some lightning people, and I always sort of just naturally side towards a guy who profiles like Lederkukut

because he's more sort of projectable in terms of being a puck mover who can skate a little bit and bring some stuff to the table offensively, even if he hasn't shown it numbers-wise yet, whereas Dodgian's a type of guy where he's purely sort of a defensive, defenseman, physical type, and there's certainly value to that, but he really just provides nothing offensively, and I'm not sure what his upside is in today's NHL, keeping that in mind. But, yeah, there's some options there for sure.

I think that regardless, it seems like Vegas will probably wind up taking a defenseman from the lightning, whether it's one of those young guys or whether it's Garrison's contract. What's next? Yeah, let's go to the Toronto Maple Leafs here, hit close to home. It was either between Brennan Leipzig or Kirby Reichel.

I'm not sure who you're higher on. I personally prefer Lipsick's HL resume, but, you know, Reichael seems like he might be a higher profile prospect. I'm not sure. I like both guys in terms of giving them more opportunity and seeing whether they can convert some of that HL success to an HL level.

Yeah, I would go with Lipsic. You know, Kirby RICO benefited a lot from really favorable minutes, good line mates, top power play unit in front of the net kind of thing. So, you know, I think Lipsick's going to be. be a little bit more of a creator and he's a guy you give some opportunity on a third or fourth line

and maybe he can turn that AHL production into NHL. We really don't know with LIPSIP because he hasn't gotten a chance at all and I think he deserves one, you know, but I'm pretty sure that's who they're going to lose. You know, outside shot, maybe they like Martin Morinchen if they've got

like a really strong analytics voice in Vegas, but I mean, that's the kind of guy they could probably acquire with a draft picker or something down the road because Merenchen had a really hard time getting in the lineup last year. And if you think about just sort of maximizing your assets, they're going to have so many defensemen to choose from here. And they could really roll like eight or nine deep of guys

who could legitimately play for their team next year and not just be purely rental types, but actually guys, they like moving forward. So I just don't see where a guy like Marencian fits into that, whereas they're desperately going to need to take some sort of high-upside, high-ceiling home run swings on these forwards. And Lipsic seems like a guy who could really, really spread as well as with more opportunity.

Yep. I mean, I think I'm pretty sure that's what's going to happen unless there's there's been a lot of talk in Toronto a potential side deal where maybe they can get rid of loophole to Vegas. So I just, that would be a costly thing to make happen, but it would help the Leafs in terms of their cap situation for the next two or

three years. Yeah. Yeah, especially with some of these guys coming up and needing new deals in that time. So now I have this next bucket here of teams that sort of provide a choice of We have, like we were talking about with Neil and Auburg, a cheap young player versus a priceier, a more established veteran. And I'm curious to see which side you lean on here. And, you know, like the Calgary Flames are a great example because they have a guy like Matt Staghan, for example, who has one year left on his deal and is a proven NHL player who plays down the middle and could fit into the lineup right away and potentially be trade bait. And then you have a guy like Hunter Shankarik who used to be a really highly regarded prospect.

And I think that if he'd shown better at the AHL level the past few years, like if he had the type of numbers that a guy like Brendan Leipzig had, I think it would be a no-brainer just taking him as a high upside guy. But his numbers were a bit underwhelming for me. So I could see the argument for taking Stajan and thinking that whatever pick you wind up getting for him in a trade might be as valuable or more valuable than Hunter Shikarik. I'm not sure where you side on that.

Yeah, Matt Stagin would be another guy that would be a really good face of the franchise early on and a good like ambassador and he's a better player than I think he gets credit for and good person and I buy that I buy I buy I buy my station as you know you can be your third or fourth line center and be good for the young guys that you have there and all kinds of things like that I want to pick Jets one of the few guys I think one of only two who actually waived their no move clause for this for the process of this was Toby Nstrom he has one year left on his deal and I think he's still a good player you know he's obviously lost his fastball a lot of bit. He's not as useful as he once was with his advancing age, but he could still definitely

play on this Vegas team and be interesting in a trade. But then you have Marco Dano, who has been a long time favorite of mine. And he's the type of guy who I think really has much more upside than he's shown just because he's played on teams with, you know, deeper forward groups that haven't really given him an opportunity to succeed. But he, I'm still so intrigued, even though it's been a few years since he's really flashed it with his offensive upside. And what he could potentially do in the right opportunity. So I would roll the dice on him, but I could see the argument for Enstrom as well. I 100% agree.

I mean, there's a reason why Chicago wanted him in the Soud deal, right? And when that trade happened, he had 21 points and 35 games for Columbus as a rookie, as a young rookie, and everyone said, oh, Chicago wants this kid, this guy must be good. And it just didn't work out for him. You know, he had a tough time in Rockford and didn't produce in the NHL. And now Winnipeg's got him, and he hasn't really produced much for Winnipeg. but I think you're 100% right. I think that just the potential that he has is something that you're going to want to look at.

And he's, I think, got even more upside than someone like Leipzig. He's younger. Just more of a, he potentially, maybe more upside and more downside. You know, it is. But I think for a team like Vegas, like you said, you've got to take some swings at these guys. And you know what Toby Anstrom's going to be. You've got lots of other options on defense. I don't think that you need to bring a guy like that in.

And I don't think you're going to be able to flip him for, a really, really high pick either. No, and the thing with Dano is, you know, it has been a few years now, but he had 21 points in 35 games as like a 20-year-old for the Columbus Blue Jackets before he got traded that summer. And just watching him, he's sort of, I'm always wary of comparisons, but he really kind of reminded me of how Victor Arbidson is sort of a darling now that's taking the world by storm, where he generated a ton of shots

and he's sort of this undersized guy that just played way bigger than his actual stature and was just kind of like this bulldog who was just constantly, barreling towards the net and flashing high up high in skill so i'm uh i'm all for for taking him and giving him a big opportunity and hopefully he'll uh he'll take advantage of it and and make me feel a little vindicated after uh after pumping his tires for for the past few years i did not know this but he was born in austria yep yeah he's chloebacian oh he's levitacian yeah you know he's he's he's he'slovakian yeah yeah i just remember seeing him play at the younger ages internationally for Slovakia.

So the Montreal Canadians here, you know, I've seen some mock drafts where people have given Thomas Blakannich to Vegas, and I think that would be a big mistake because he's got that name value, but he's not the player he once was, turtleneck aside. And Charles Hudon is a guy who fits that Leipzig mold

that we just talked about, where he's been very, very productive, has never gotten the opportunity yet in Montreal, but seems like he could step in, day one and be a nice little surprise for them. So it's between Hudan or Brandon Davidson, who alike, but just based on that defensive logjam we talked about and sort of going for a more high-out-upside approach,

I went with Hudon here. Yeah, I really like Davidson, too. I mean, I think that he's an NHL player, and I was surprised that Evanton traded him away the way that they did. So I'm okay with either one of those guys. It's just going to depend on the decision that they make in terms of other players that they're bringing in. So, I mean, at some point, they're going to have too many defensemen.

like you said. So you're going to need to try some of these forwards. I don't know how it's going to work with all of these guys and the HL team. Like most of these guys, because they've played their two years pro, are probably going to need waivers to go down. But it would be an interesting play. I don't know if there are some of these guys they can claim that don't require waivers to go down.

And they're, you know, that makes the decision easier because you can develop them another year or two in the minors. Yeah. Yeah, that's an important. thing to factor that I you know we're just talking about accumulating all of these assets and just get making it a free-for-all but you do need to take into account their status and whether you're actually going to be able to keep them or how it's all going to work logistically

yeah well with 30 guys I mean unless you unless you go the Myrtle route and take seven goalies just start playing some of them at forward no you just just have like a hold like an auction for all for the extra guys each side you don't want and maybe you go into the year with carrying three goalies on your 23 months and roster and then you have to trade a guy during the year at some point. Yeah, I like that. It seems like a savvy way to manage your assets. The last team here that I have is the Ottawa Senators.

And they have two sort of more established veteran guys and Bobby Ride and Mark Mathot. And then they have two defensemen that probably aren't, I can definitely say they're not household names, but they're guys who I think people generally don't really appreciate. and Freddie Clayson and Chris Wyatman, but both guys had intriguing seasons in Ottawa last year, and, you know, Wyman's a few years older. I think Clayson has a bit more upside, so I would probably lean with him.

But, you know, I know, as well as Bobby Ryan played in this postseason, I just, you know, he's a 30-year-old who's making like 7.25 million a year until 2022. I just don't see how you can do that unless Ottawa was really willing to pay some sort of a price for you to take on that. track. Otherwise, it seems foolish for Vegas to saddle themselves with that for no particular reason. I guess devil's advocate on Clayson is that he's 25 years old

in the fall, so it's not like he's a young prospect coming up. Yeah, that's true. But I mean, just in terms of the other options, like I like Mark Matha as a player. A lot of people think they're going to take, yeah, a lot of that's what I was going to say a lot of people think they're going to take methad. But I like, I know what Mathad is right now, and while he's definitely an NHLer, just based on some of the other guys, they're going to have there. I just don't see how he's going to fit in. Like it seems foolish to

bring him on and not be playing him, but then also likewise be playing him over some of the younger guys who you want to give more of that ice time and opportunity too. He seems like a weird fit for this team. Considering the trajectory we have for them moving forward. I wonder

if they claim him. I mean, he'd be pretty tradable, though. I guess the question you have to wonder is what the asset you're going to get back? Is it better than a Clayson or whatever? Yeah, yeah, no, that's fair. I mean, he has a couple years left on his deal. He's already in his 30s.

He's making 4.9 per, so it's not like he's on a great contract. Someone can easily fit into their books. I'm just not sure what that trademark it is for him, but he is that type of sturdy veteran defensive defenseman that so many teams seem to like. So I guess maybe if you fish around and you find out that, you know, like he could be one of these perfect guys. We haven't really talked about this as an avenue for Vegas yet,

but sort of being that third party broker where they just take a guy, and instantly trade him away to some other team that's made their interest in him, in him apparent to them. I just know Ottawa loves the guy and they don't want to lose them. And that could be a side deal situation as well. Yeah, I believe that. All right, James, we're done 22 of the 30 teams here.

And we have eight of them left. We can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. And I think we've saved the best for last because these final eight teams are the ones that have a couple of intriguing names to choose from. And the cream of the crop here is the Minnesota Wild. We alluded to them at the start of the show. If you like defensemen, they have Matt Dumba and they have Marco Scandella.

I prefer Dumba because of his age and how he profiles moving forward. And then up front they have Eric Stahl, whose resume speaks for itself, although his age is a bit of a concern for Vegas, you know, based on what we've talked about so far. And Eric Hala, who's an RFA and sort of one of those speedy depth guys. who could potentially be more productive if given more of an opportunity on a team that has less depth than the Minnesota wild do. Assuming there's no side deal here, and that's a big assumption considering, you know, it seems like Minnesota may very well have gone into that thinking that would happen because why wouldn't they have traded someone in like a Jonas Brodine?

I would go with Dumba here, but I could see the argument for a couple of these other guys as well. Yeah, I lean towards Dumba too. I question whether he's going to be more than a third guy or not, but I don't think we know that yet, and perfect opportunity to see if he give him bigger minutes, what he can do. I've heard the argument for why they didn't make a trade is like, well, you don't want to trade away one of your defensemen

and then still wind up losing another of them because all of a sudden you're down two guys. But if they could have gotten a nice, like it was rumored that they could have gotten a first round pick for Jonas Brodeen, I would much rather have a first and protect Matt Dumbah than have just Jonas Brodine. Like it seems like that is a miscalculation on their part.

Obviously assuming that there was that type of trade market for Jonas Broduring and it wasn't just purely speculation. I guess then though they lose, you know, maybe they lose Stahl and Brodine and just get a first round pickback. And, you know, this way they know that they're just going to lose the one player. And like, I'm sure they want to keep Eric Stahl. good year last year and I'm sure they want to keep howl on it's, you know, so yeah, I thought there were going to be a lot more trades before just talking to teams.

Teams seemed more confident they were going to be able to make deals and get something for these guys. And then when it came down to it, it was harder than they thought. Yeah. Well, I guess, you know, that was advocated in NHL. It is always, I mean, we see at every trade deadline where we believe big stuff's going to happen and then the conservative nature of all these teams and all these GMs takes, takes effect. and we see teams stand pat,

but it also leaves the door open for more side deals than we're thinking, having already been agreed upon just based on some of the ways some of these teams acted with their protection lists. There's going to be like seven to ten side deals, guaranteed. Yeah, which is not that fun in terms of right now, but obviously when we get down to it, especially from Vegas' perspective, that could wind up being very,

very resourceful on their part um the washington capitals it's the classic debate here where if you're going to go with as many of your goalies as possible uh philip grubauer is an interesting name i personally uh love nachmit and i think that it's probably not a first bearing guy but i think like he could legitimately be a third defenseman on a team and like a very very good fourth if you're classifying on like that and i think that you know he just needs the opportunity because in washington they had so many guys in front of them that he never really got to play the type of minutes that I think he's capable of. He's such a remarkable skater and has good puck skills while also being sort of good

defensively and always being in the right position. And I think he's a perfect candidate for just exploding given more ice time in Vegas. But if you're going the goalie route, Philip Grubauer seems like a pretty intriguing name as well. Yeah, I'm a bit worried we haven't taken enough goalie. And I said I was going to go the goalie route. but Nate Schmidt, I was very impressed with in the playoffs, especially seeing him up close in every game against the Leaps. When Alzner came out and he came in, the series changed a little bit

because all of a sudden that pairing was bolstered so much more having him there. So, you know, it's, I like that pick. I do like that pick. I don't have a master list in front of me to know if we're, what our team looks like positionally right now. It seems like we've taken off a lot of times. defensemen. So, you know, you can tell me at the end of what we end up with here.

Well, we have. I think we were going to wind up with a solid, like, eight or nine defensemen, but they're all going to be, you know, not on them are going to be the type of, like, old defensive defenseman type that don't really provide a lot of utility. They're all going to be guys that can either play or be very useful trade assets. I mean, we've seen in this league at, like, every trade deadline. Tebes desperately crave puckmovers and defensemen are hot commodities. So from an asset management perspective, it makes sense to take as much as much as much as a

any of those guys as you can and shift them. Like I truly believe that, you know, a useful defenseman who can actually play might have more trade value than sort of a marginal goalie in today's NHL just based on what we've seen guys like even like a Ben Bishop goal for the trade deadline in the past few years. Yeah. Yeah. How many goalies have we take it though? Well, we have, you know, we haven't talked about the penguins yet. I wouldn't personally take Flurry because there's intriguing forwards to take from. But you haven't taken any goalies.

yet, though. I mean, Vegas is a goalie. Petter-Mrazic for sure. You know, we're going to get to Colorado here next. I would take Calvin Picard from them. Yeah,

yep. You know, we talked about Linus Almark, for example, maybe even Louis de Mae. All right, okay, okay. Antirond does coming up.

There's like four or five guys. Don't worry, we're going to get your goalie fix. All right, right. I feel like I'm straying from what I came in planning to do. I've had a bad draft that way.

Well, or you could argue I've had a great draft. The Colorado Avalanche, I just mentioned. You know, they do have, you know, like a guy like Mikkel Grigrenko, although it's been a while since he was a prospect, is intriguing.

Mark Barbario, I would say, if we hadn't listed so many defensemen already, which makes me go with Calvin Picard as the obvious choice because, you know, I'm a little surprised that they didn't just protect him over Samayanov Arlamov, just based on age and cost. their own time frame.

Like it seems like Picard is the goalie of the future. So I'm kind of confused that they were just willing to let him go. And I think that Vegas should take the opportunity to scoop him up. Yep, 100% agree. The Florida Panthers, and I'm very curious where you side on this, because I don't necessarily think there's a right answer. I think it's sort of a subjective personal preference thing. But they have Jonathan Marshall, so, Riley Smith, and Jason the Burr's here.

Which where are you leaning on these three guys? Roberto Luongo. Are you actually? No, I'm kidding. No, I'm kidding. Go with a Luongo flurry, 50-50 split. You know, I like Jason Demers as a player, but I think he's the kind of guy

you could either sign in free agency or they're going to be able to find elsewhere, so I go more with someone that can produce offensively. I kind of lean, I like Riley Smith. I mean, great possession player, good point producer, he's young. I know Marchzo, the question with Marchzozo is that he had really high shooting percentage,

how much is he going to come down, how much of it was the result of who he was playing with in Florida. That's the debate for me is Smith or Marchozzo. I know Smith had a down year last year, but he did the year before he had the 25 goals and 50 points, and that was his second 50-point season. I think that he's bounced around a little bit, but he's better than he gets credit for.

And I think the other factor to consider here, and it shouldn't necessarily be sort of the be-all-end-all, but if, you know, if it's kind of a coin flip between Marcoso and Riley Smith, is the fact that Smith's under contract pretty much all through his prime for a pretty reasonable 5 million cap hit, whereas March or so has one more very cheap year, which is appealing. But after that, he's a UFA, right? He's a UFA.S.A. or pretty close to it.

Yeah, he's a UFA in the summer of 2018. And, you know, I can't necessarily see him being the type of guy that some team is just going to throw a massive contract onto just based on his, his pedigree and his size. But at the same time, if he is another very productive year, all of a sudden he could become more costly and lose a lot of that appeal of being a cheap guy and considering how much money in Caps Bayes, Vegas has to work with here.

I don't think that his cheap contract is so incredibly valuable to them as it would be to other teams. So I'm with you. I think that Riley Smith is a very, very nice option for them to take here. I think he could play on the first line. I mean, I think that he's a very, really underrated. So it's a good get for them.

And it's, you know, a product of Florida wanting to protect Petrovich and Pissick, who I know they were worried about losing. Yep. I agree with that. The New York Rangers. I guess we'll go with Aunt DeRanta here just because of what we've discussed in terms of wanting to load up on goalies. Like when I did my mock draft, I actually went with Michael Grabner.

But I... Okay. Or even Lindbergh? Lindberg's kind of interesting too. I mean, you know, Esper Fast just had a, I think, I believe, a hip surgery, so maybe he might be off of their board, but he's also another guy who's sort of an interesting flyer to take on. Like, listen, Ranta's super cheap for next year, and he's been productive the past few years.

I'm just not necessarily sure what, like, I think people are overvaluing the goalie trade market here. Like, I'm not sure if they took Ranta, what they could conceivably get for him. I'm not sure that it's that much more than what they could get if Michael Grabner was on another 25 goal pace of the trade deadline next season. I just think that's kind of, I think there are pretty much comparable values, honestly. Yeah, that makes sense. I think I would lean towards Ronto just because I think that you can make some things happen if you have, if you're shorting the goalie market. But then again, if you have six goalies and you need to trade three of them, it might be tough to do.

Right. You don't have that much leverage. But at the same time, obviously, if another team comes calling and needs a goalie, it doesn't really matter how many you have. It matters how many they need. Yeah. So the penguins, like I like Brian Rust. I like Carl Hagelin. I think this process doesn't have much practical value if we build our team taking those guys because it seems very clear from what we've heard that Vegas is just going to take Mark Andre Fleury and either use him or flip him to another team.

Like, it's kind of a shame to me that I'm not sure. what the asking price for him would have been, but I would have liked to see a team like Calgary not trade for Mike Smith and his contract and rather just wait and see what it took to get Mark Andre Flurry because I think that provided them with more sustainable upside

and it seemed like a better bet, but I'm sure there's going to be some other team that will eventually be able to use a Mark Andre Flurry, and if not, he's a pretty stable option for Vegas to start off their inaugural season with. Yeah, it's a bit disappointing that Calgary went that route because I think they've got one of the best decores in the whole

and they've got some good young forwards. And, you know, I thought they were going to have a better year than they did last year. And one of the big reasons they didn't is that they had troubles and goals. So I think if you bring someone like Flurry in there, that absolutely, I mean, he was a perfect option. And I know that Calgary looked and really tried to get Frederick Anderson out of Anaheim, and they looked at Ben Bishop. Calgary's been pushing for a goaltender for a long, long time. And for them to settle on Mike Smith being the guy, it's a shame.

You know, I could see him, given his age, having a poor season and kind of sewering another year for them. Yeah, me as well. So it's kind of disappointing because I like that team otherwise, but what can you do? Okay, so we have two teams left here. One of them we probably could have discussed in an earlier bucket, but I just put it in here, and it's a Philadelphia Flyers. They don't have, you know, super impactful players here,

but they do have, you know, your pick of the litter of Michael Raffle or Matt Reed or Jordan Wheel, and all three of those guys you could talk yourself into. I think it's another personal preference thing. I kind of, I've always had a soft spot for Michael, Michael Raffle. I mean, I guess you can make the same argument for Matt Reed as well, but there's sort of these analytics darlings who always post good possession numbers and have a good five-on-five production. But don't, you know, I haven't gone to love because they don't pile up the counting stats

and aren't big names. But Jordan Wheel, you know, former prospect always showed really well the HL level and really looked impressive towards the end of the season. season in Philly. He's an RFA and he needs a new deal. I'm not sure what's going to happen there. So any of those three guys, really, I don't think you can necessarily go wrong with. Amazingly, Matt Reed is 31 years old, so that surprises me. So, you know what, I do like him. I think just like if you just measure like pure talent and what they bring to you right now, he might be the best, but the other guys are younger

and, you know, maybe Jordan Wheel is a guy that you can give more minutes to and more opportunity and he's going to do something. I mean, he had big, big seasons in the H.L. The last few years, so I don't mind that move either. Yeah, yeah, I'm with you. And the last team here is the San Jose Sharks, and they have three defensemen to pick from. You know, Paul Martin, David Schlemco, Brendan Dillon.

I personally like Schlemco the most here when you factor everything in, but I don't know, like where are you at on those three guys? Which one do you prefer from Vegas, perspective, or is there another guy that you're sort of circling? Because I know that if you're going goalies, maybe I've heard a guy like Aaron Dell as a backup is an intriguing option. But I think the defensemen are too good to pass up here for such a lottery ticket goalie.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I was leaning towards Dylan, but I know that that third pair in San Jose has been probably the best third pair in the NHL the last few years. And I think that that's, I mean, you kind of know what you're going to get from him. and I think you know what you're going to eat from Schlemco. But they're going to give you good NHL minutes right away. Yeah, I like Slimko a lot.

He's, you know, I like Dylan as well. Actually, it's funny because when we talk about defensemen and, you know, who they play with as their partners, we look at stuff like with or without your numbers and evaluate them that way. But just stylistically, you could see the impact playing with a guy like David Schlemco had on Brendan Dillon versus what he has. to do when he was playing with Roman Polack the year prior where he was just a completely different player just sort of more willing to actually use his natural physical skills in

terms of skating the puck out and stuff and just kind of playing a more open open game which I think suits him better and makes him more productive so if you're going to play him with you know like let's say like a Nate Schmidt or someone like that on on this Vegas team all of a sudden I think he could be very very good as well yeah maybe that can be a second pair for you even you ever know yeah I'm with you. I like that. All right. We've done our due diligence here.

We've somehow picked a guy from all 30 teams. Some of them were the equivalent of pulling teeth, but I think it was a pretty fun discussion. So how good do you think that team is? So here's the thing. I think they're going to be competitive. I don't think they're going to be a playoff team, but I don't think they're going to be like the worst team in the league. I think that they could be somewhere in that sort of 21st to 25th in the league range. but with that in mind,

it depends on how many of these side deals they make because they could be that type of team while also having five first round picks and a bunch of future assets as well and all of a sudden they're going to be okay out of the gate but their future is going to be incredibly bright and I think that if they play it right, there's no reason why they can't have that type of organization

and that's exciting. I think that that's going to be great for the NHL in terms of sustainability because we keep talking about hockey markets and whether after hockey loses its appeal or loses some of that shine after the first first few years in Vegas whether fans will still keep going to the game and caring about the team and being able to support it and I think if they build this

right and they have an exciting young team for years to come I don't see any reason why it can't work in Vegas well you know what I think at the the very baseline level of success it's going to be a better market than some of the places the NHL is already in the US I think that in terms of revered Vegas is going to easily surpass Carolina, probably Sunrise, Florida, Arizona. You know, they're not going to be, even if they're drawing revenue sharing, it's not going to be nearly to the extent that some of those other markets are. So, you know, that's kind of how I measure when you bring another team into the NHLs,

that they've got to at least baseline be better than, you know, the weakest markets that you've got. And I think that Vegas definitely clears that bar. Yeah, yeah, I completely agree. with that. James, do you want to plug some stuff here? What are you working on these days? I know you're a very busy guy. You're up to a lot of stuff.

Well, we just launched today The Athletic in Detroit with Craig Custin's as the editor of that website. And that's our fourth market for the athletic. And it's the start of a pretty what I hope is going to be a pretty ambitious expansion project. So, you know,

I hope that if people said, you know, I don't want to subscribe to read about the Leafs, I hope they see now that, you know, we're going to have Craig Custin's going to be writing about not only the Red Wings, but kind of league-wide NHL issues. I'm going to be writing more about other teams than just the Leafs next season. I hope that people that are just hockey fans will get on board and check out the athletic and download the app because it's a big part of what we're doing. And, you know, hopefully people can get excited about it because I definitely am. I am as well. That's huge. I mean, you know, people that are listening to the show and follow my work know how important Craig Custin is that I'm.

hockey world and uh he's a he's a huge get for you guys i mean he's one of the few guys who i actively go out of my way to to see what he's written recently and and what he said because he's sort of were you know he's very all kind of open-minded in terms of applying some of this uh stat analytic stuff we're working on ourselves but also he's got you know great inside sources and always takes intriguing angles and and he's uh he's a he's a he's a great hockey writer and great hockey mind so i'm really excited to see what you guys uh well you guys get going over there at the athletic Detroit branch. Yeah, great.

Appreciate the plug. All right, James. I appreciate you coming and take the time. Hopefully, this expansion process and what this team could look like is a bit clearer to all the listeners out there, and we'll get you back on the show sometime down the road. Yeah, I'm interested to see Wednesday

how close with the team they pick looks like the one that we picked. Maybe we'll do some kind of a comparison or something on Twitter. I like it. I like it. All right, chat soon, buddy. Yep, yeah. with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud.com slash hockeypediocast.