The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 186: You've Got Questions, We've Got Answers

Episode Date: July 31, 2017

Craig Custance joins the show for a mailbag episode in which we answer your Twitter questions. We discuss whether the Islanders should be looking to trade John Tavares (1:40), if this current version of the Blackhawks can get back to the top (12:00), how to fix the Detroit Red Wings (18:45), the pros and cons of offer sheets (33:00), which players the league should be marketing more aggressively (39:45), which teams didn't take full advantage of their offseason (58:30), and how the Olympics could affect fringe players this season (1:03:00).  Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the Hockey P.D.O.cast, my name is Dimitri Philopovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Craig Custin's. Craig, what's going on, man? Oh, everything, Dimitri, you know that. Absolutely. It's the opposite. Absolutely nothing. What? We're just, you know, we're just, it was funny. I did a radio hit today. They called the Athletic, the Illuminati because I don't know if we're like sneaking behind the scenes and then hiring everybody. Yeah. That's what I'm currently in the process of doing, like seeing what person we can like disappear

from the regular job and then pop up with us. Yeah, but the good thing is unlike a few years ago where it was like the summer of analytics where people were sort of disappearing but then never coming back because they were being hired by NHL teams. At least you guys are keeping these people, you know, available to the public and putting their work on a nice platform. So it's, it's not all bad. Yeah, no, that's a good. never thought of it. Like, let's have them just disappear.

Like, it would be, uh... We own them now. They're gone forever. Yeah. Yeah, not great. Um, so today, we are going to do a mailbag show. And, um, you know, I did one of these, uh, a couple weeks ago. And it was the first time I'd really done it on the show and the feedback was positive.

So I, you know, I asked my Twitter followers if they had any questions and they came through in a big way. And, and so, uh, we're just going to hammer through as many of these as we, can and see where that takes us and you know this is a really good a really good starting point is Kevin Schultz here asks us should the islanders trade John Tavares. Oh, here we go. Wow. This is a not even going to warm up or anything. No, I didn't want to slow play. We're getting right into it. This is probably one of the most important questions that we're going to deal with this season and I'll open the floor up to you here. What do you think is the answer to that? To me, I think you hit a point where

Oh, this is such a hard one. Gosh, Demetri. I think you hit a point. If you're the islanders and you're not 100% sure you're going to get them signed, I do, gosh, you have to at least see what's out there. Because to me, what a disaster if this gets to, even if it gets to the trade deadline and he's unsigned. And now you have to get entertained John Tavares' rental trade offers, which, as we saw with Kevin Chatton, the price seems to go down.

I mean, you know, there was a speculation it was Jonathan Jew and N for Chattonk when he had a little bit of term left on his contract. And then we saw what he actually got by the end there. When teams, you know, when teams aren't getting a full season out of guys, they're not as willing to be as generous there. So if, you know, I think you have to at least see what the market would bear on a John Tavar's trade. And the second you're not sure you're going to get them signed or you start to doubt that. I do think you have to look really hard.

What about you? I mean, it's much easier for us to sit back here and say, you know, you have to from a value perspective. But, you know, I'm not necessarily like invested in the situation emotionally or having to, you know, deal with, like if even when I'm working for the team or if I'm a fan of the team, deal with it on a daily basis and the consequences of what trading away your franchise player for, you know, what'll surely be like 50 cents in the dollar or whatever. And like you're not going to recoup John Tavares level of value back when

whatever trade you do, especially if it's an expiring deal, right? So it's like, I guess it would depend on, you know, if you're in the situation and you're working for the team and you get the feeling that he's leaning towards leaving in free agency and you're out of it. And it's quite possible. Like I like this Islander's team, but at the same time you look at that division and they're going to be in tough to make any type of serious noise or even make the playoffs really. And it's like if they're out of it come the midway point of the season, I think you really have

to start at least considering it or, you know, gauging what potential offers would be. So yeah. Yeah. So I want to make a couple of points here. I think there's been a false comparison made by Islanders fans between Tavares and Stephen Stamcoast. Because, you know, they'll say. anytime we bring up Tavares on Twitter or whatever the conversations are like you know look Stamcoast went all the way to the bitter end and then it ended up resigning the difference there

I don't like it was clear that Stephen Stamcoast wanted to stay in Tampa that to me was Steve Eiser in finding a number that worked for everybody and um that to me is a different situation or what's happening now with Tavares and the islanders to me it's now you have john Tavares saying um is this a situation I want to I want to give the problem of my career to or the you know, these are the best years. He has not achieved. I mean, I think he's at that same cloth as the Kopitare, Taves,

Frosby, you know, on some level. These are leaders that want to win a Stanley Cup. And, you know, he's unsatisfied until he gets there. And so, you know, to me, he's trying to be convinced that the Islanders are where this can happen. That's completely different than Stephen Stamcoast to me. Like, Stephen Stamcoast wanted his day in Tampa. It was confident he could win a Stanley Cup to Tampa.

It was about making the numbers work. And this, you know, the Islanders are going to, you know, money won't be an issue here. Yeah. Well, the question I want, like, so, like, what's going to change between now and December with the Islanders that's going to make John DeVarrois say, oh, yeah, okay, now I totally want to stay? Yeah, I mean, I'm all for, you know, continuity in players staying with the franchises

that drafted them and building up, you know, legacies there and retiring. But it's, I mean, the Islanders have played in four playoff series in John Tavares' his career so far, and he's been in the league for, like, seven seasons or something like that. it's, they're, with Stamco's, you know, they, they'd just made the cup final and, and they, they'd been building something and they were generally considered to be one of the kind of up-and-coming franchises in the league with this Islander's team. It feels like last year was just a really big step back for them, especially after they finally won a playoff series the year before. And it felt like they were moving in the right direction and they were kind of an exciting team to watch. And all of a

sudden, this past year just was, was kind of a gut punch for them. And I, if you're, if you're, if you're Severus, like, I wouldn't blame him for looking around at this point of his career. I mean, he's got in turn 27 at the start of the season. Like, these are his prime seasons. And this is probably going to be, like, the last big contract he signs. And I, it's tough for both parties. It seems like we could be at a bit of a crossroads here. Yeah.

And so even if they're like, you know what, we've got this arena thing figured out. And who, like, if they decide that tomorrow, that's even a few years off, right? If there's a solution on that front, if that's part of the equation. So now we're getting into, you know, John Tavares being 29, 30, 31, when maybe everything's aligned the way it is. And then you talk about a step back for the Islanders. They did that, and then they trade Hamanick now. So they've got draft picks for 2018. They're set up really nice.

But what does that do, John Tavaris, who's trying to win a Stanley Cup here before he's 30? Like, that does him no good. So then that brings me to my working theory that maybe, you know, I wrote a. about a Ryan Johansson offer sheet possibility this week for the athletic you know and I mentioned the Islanders in there because I'm like look this is a team that's trying to sell their captain that they

can do it here they also happen to have two first and two seconds in the coming draft I mean they're set up to do it if they I guess they really wanted to if that was something that they thought made sense in terms of bringing in another high end forward and making a move

that gets their captain's attention but as it stands right now I'm not sure what's going to change that would convince John Tiberis, other than some undying loyalty to the team that drafted him to stay. Yeah. Well, I think there's too much on the line here to have that be the sole reason for why you're going to just spend the rest of your career with them. I mean, is Andrew Ladd the only sort of big name, marquee free agent that signed with Islanders

during Tiberius's run there? I mean, obviously the Everleigh trade was good, and they addressed the deal. with in bringing in boy check and letty a couple years ago i mean they've done it made nice nice moves but like yeah i mean i don't know nothing that if i'm john tiberis i'm sitting here going okay that's i think we're a better team now if anything i think the islanders are worse now than they were a couple years ago yeah well and it's also one of those things where um he also hasn't really had anything resembling uh consistency around him whether it's, I mean, especially with players, right?

It seems like they've been shuffling those wing spots for him, just continuously trying to find the right combination. And I wonder if they look back now and regret letting Kyle Okpozo go because it seemed like that was a combination that was really working. And obviously replacing Okpozo with Ladd was a misstep. So it's tough. I can definitely see why Tavares would look around and want something else. But at the same time, if you're the islanders,

you're going to have a tough time getting this kind of talent to come to your team so you have to try and do everything possible to retain it and keep it and I guess that should be their priority and if things really go off the rails next season and aren't going the way they expected then maybe you kind of deal with it then

but I think right now it's still a bit too early to consider trading them. Okay, I think that's fair because ultimately if you're trading and then you're saying okay we're going back to the step of rebuilding completely basically and then what's your hopes, your hopes is that you bought them out and get somebody who's as good as

DeVaris. You already have them in hand. So I can be talked into buying some time. It's just the value as the clock is ticking, the value goes down. Do you think there would be a significant difference in value they could get from in a trade if they were to trade them before the season versus at some point during the

season? I think so, yeah. I mean, I guess I guess it depends on, you know, how early, but yeah, I think, I think traditionally deals done in the summer are stronger than deals done at the deadline. Teams just have a little bit more flexibility to, if you're trading something away, then you can make another move or sign a guy,

or you have a little bit more time to maneuver if you do it now, versus making him a pure rental. But the argument for making him a rental, if you're the Islanders, is, look, we don't even care what we're getting back for DeVaris. It's never going to be what it should be. You know, we're going to lose that trade no matter what it is, is. So we're going to give him every opportunity to sign and then go from there. Yeah, I feel like most Islanders fans have interacted with are very heavily on the side of

not trading John Tavares, which makes sense, obviously. But it's like, you know, generally with this stuff, it can be pretty divisive and polarizing. And you have fans on both ends of the extreme, but it feels like Islanders fans are pretty united. And man, we, what are the chances we get another player like this anytime soon? Let's try and make it work with him and deal with the consequences afterwards. I would at least be seeing what's out there. That's all I'm saying if I'm correct. I'm telling general managers.

I'm not listening. I, you know, really, our priorities to get them signed. But hey, you know, what does a potential package look like? I think every team should be listening on every single player. But that's, it seems like it's the job description of the GMs. That's fair. Okay, next question. This is a big one as well.

Daniel Roy asks, Is the Chicago dynasty built through Taves, Kane, and Keith done forever? Wow, forever? Well, I don't say no.

Well, at some point in their history. No, well, I mean, built through these, so with these three guys as the main sort of centerpiece and core that they're building around. Yeah. Well, okay.

All right, let's dive in. I probably should have looked at these at a time as you offered up to me. No, I like this. I like this. I like a skiphole. You're hearing the thought process. All right, so here's a couple of things.

When I think of what made the Blackhawk successful, on top of Kane and Taves, and, you know, they won the first cup with them on their entry-level deals. That was huge for them. And that's why you could afford to pay Brian Campbell crazy numbers and Cristobal, UA, and that kind of stuff. So that was a big part of it. Two other factors to me, on top of having Kane and Taves around,

were huge for the Chicago Blackhawks during their kind of dynasty years. one was having Duncan Keith signed to the best contract in all of hockey at five and a half million. Best deal that there is. That number, I mean, we're going to look back at that era and even now and say, what an incredible contract that was for the Blackhawks. And that was a big contributing factor. And the other contract that was huge for them was Marion Hosa at a similar number, 5.2. Well, now you've subtracted Marion Hosa from the equation, right?

So you no longer have, so you have Kane and Tays at a number at 10 and a half that makes it really hard to surround them with great players. You were still able to because you had Marion Hosa, who was a Hall of Fame player, playing at probably $2 or $3 million less, which then allowed you to have another player, you know, whoever it was further down your lineup, and that guy usually was circulated from year to year. So that, so those are, this is a long way of saying the degree of difficulty now goes way up without that Hosa option with Kane and Taves a little bit older.

and that number, that 10 and a half really looming large. So, and so now let's look at their defense. So now you have Seabrook and Keith. You no longer have Yarmelston, who probably one of the most underappreciated parts. And we're asking for Connor Murphy and, I mean, who was, Michael Kempney? Like, who's on that D?

It's bleak. I mean, Michael Roosevelt is still somehow on that blue line. I mean, I was a good thought exercise. is like I don't think you could name five defense cores that are worse than what the Blackhawks currently have unless someone like Gustav Worsling or Billy Pocke all of a sudden explodes in the scene but that seems like a stretch so it's like it's pretty tough beyond beyond Duncan Keith there there isn't very much and I I don't want to overreact to you know to playoff exits obviously getting swept by the predators and in pretty convincing fashion is is tough and it's on it's the

recent thing we have in our minds when we think about the Blackhawks. But then there was obviously the, like in 2011, 2012, when they lost their coyotes in the first round and they come back and win the cup. So it's, you don't want to overreact to this, but at the same time, it's with the way they've allocated their money and with the current core they have and the players, especially on the blue line, I find it tough to believe that they're going to, they should be considered a contender again next season. Like obviously when you have those stars, you got a.

leave you got to give them the benefit of the doubt but I it's going to be tough for them next season man with it with this blue line it's I think this is uh this is the start of a downward trend for this franchise yeah I would agree with that I was ready to say hey maybe we're seeing Jonathan Tave slow down because I feel like he he did a little last year but then his points per game were 0.81 which is what it was two years ago and it's actually higher than the previous year so I'm going to retract that comment but that's you know that's my concern is with them is, okay, you're paying Kim, Taves, 10 and a half. Cain still Cain, but I think Taves is a kind of one of those, like,

max effort kind of guys that may maybe won't age as well. Yeah, you know, he's 29 already, all the mileage. 29 already, ton of mileage. All, you know, every international tournament, all these long playoff runs, you know, who knows, I mean, obviously, I'm not saying now the decline is kicking in, but it's going to it, you know, at some point in this contract. So I don't know.

That's a team with a lot of pride. That's a team with for my money, the second best coach in the game. And I'm not ready to say they don't have another run in them. Yeah, they're going to have to kind of hit big on some of these lottery ticket, like, you know, bargain bin, bare minimum deals. And just you hope to recoup some value there because obviously I do believe that. it, you know, the NHL, there's a discussion to be had here about whether it's a star-driven league or whether you need the depth. And I think it's a little bit of both. And sometimes we can, uh, we can underrate each of those components. But, like, I do think you can win

when you're paying a couple of guys that exorbitant amount on your cap, but you just have to basically make sure you're maximizing everything else around them. And that's something they did a really good job of as you, as you outlined for years. And right now it's, it's not looking as good. And I think that's the big problem with this team. Yeah, I mean, that was a question. Can you win with two guys over 10? Because even with the, you know, the penguins, they just got lucky. And it was just kind of how the CBA fell that they were able to get Malkin and

Crosby signed when they did at nine and a half and 8.7 for those two. And it's just, you know, the timing and all that with the Blackhawks and Caden tapes. Those deals, it's funny because people talk about how high those numbers are. and how, you know, restrictive they are to the Blackhawks. They still left money on the table. And I remember, like, they could have gotten easily 12, 12 and a half on the open market. And still, those are going to be prohibitive contracts for the Blackhawks. Yeah, yeah.

It's, I mean, if anyone can make a work, it will be Joel Klinville. I feel like, especially as last year, the regular season was going along, he was really pulling all the right strings and helping get some of those young guys into the lineup in the right spots. and that's something they need more of this season. But, man, that blue line, I mean, they just got, I mean, the Predator's speed will expose a lot of teams as we saw, but they look like they were playing a different sport during that series last year.

So that's kind of tough. That's an issue. Yeah. Okay. Next question, John Evans, and this one is hitting close to home. And I don't mean to step on your toes because I'm sure the, you guys are working on a 10-part series about this. But how do we fix the Detroit Red Wings?

I don't want to give away our 25 part series that we're going to run in August at the athletic Detroit. Yeah. It's funny because, you know, we're still pumping like two hockey stories out of the day. Someone's like, what are you going to write about when training camp opens? I'm like, we haven't even thought that far ahead. I'm just trying to get through it. Taking it one day at a time. We're taking it one day at a time.

So what's the question? How do we fix the Red Wings? Yes. Who? So this is, this is, I don't. know how much you follow this. This is the debate that's being had in Detroit kind of ad nauseum now is whether or not you tear it down completely to the core or you do what Ken Holland's trying to do and keep kind of some of that culture around while pumping a lot of draft picks and young players

and transition in a way to success that way. And I think that, you know, when Ken Holland and I talked about this. Because I've had this debate and I've gone in circles with people in the game. There is no right answer because for everybody who wants to strip it down and say they should do the oilers, you know, you can make an argument and say, okay, for every oilers, there's also a coyote's team that's been awful for years that just didn't happen to hit on the lottery. Or, you know, as much as we love Carolina, they, you know, it's been a decade since they've been in the playoffs or whatever it is. I mean, not that bad. But, you know, there's other examples where, you know, if you're going to tear it down,

not only you have to tear it down, you have to hit the lottery, and then you've got to hope you hit the lottery in a year that Connor McDavid is the guy, and, you know, the Oilers rebuild was a disaster until they got lucky with Connor. So that's, you know, that's the tear it down model. The only thing I have, and this is, you know,

when I talk to the people with Detroit, I just say, like, I understand the thought process here with what you're trying to do. I understand trying to retain the culture that's been handed down from, you know, generation to generation. I just haven't seen an example of a team that has successfully done it. Have you seen, like, that's kind of, that hasn't bottomed out and then kind of return

to glory. Like, is there, maybe you could say the Dallas stars on some level, they, you know, they kind of took their foot off the gas and they got, you know, lucky, I don't want to say lucky, but they drafted Jamie Ben, got him late, got Tyler Sagan and a tray. Like, they didn't, I don't know if the Dallas ever. in the full tank mode. So maybe they're an example of a team now that can win us down the cup that didn't do it.

But there's not a lot of examples that have done what Detroit is trying to do. And that's, that to me, the challenge. And what they'll tell you is, is that they're, you know, they're loading up on draft picks and they'll continue to do so in hopes of

finding that franchise player in the at typical spot where you're not drafting them at number one or number two overall. And of course, there's always examples of, you know, P.K. Suban or Eric Carlson or guys that aren't in those slots, it's just, I think it's harder to do. So do you think that the fact that the Red Wings had that long streak, that postseason streak and had had so much success over the years, do you think it's, it works as a positive or negative in terms of the rebuild where it's like you could make the argument that,

listen, like, we were so good for so long. I think fans, there might be a bit of an appetite here for a few downs. seasons just because, you know, they've had their share of winning, but at the same time, you do get a little bit spoiled by it and come to expect it every year. And then all of a sudden, now, when you're going through this rough patch, it's, it makes it tougher just based on remembering how much better things were as recently as a few seasons ago. Yeah, I think, I think there's a nominate of the fan base that would be really excited if they came out and said, hey, it was a great run. But we want to get back to that level again. And the only way to do it is this path. And it's

going to be hard for a couple years here, but bear with us. And it's going to go out that we just ask for your support. And I know there would be fans that would say, awesome, let's do this. You know, we understand this. And I think there's a lot of educated fans in Detroit. You know, but there's also a lot of the casual fans that fill the seats and they have, you know, they have a new arena. And that's something to deal with.

But like, I think Toronto is a good example. I think Toronto and Detroit are comparable. When Brennan came out and said it and Mike Babcock came out and said, hey, it's going to be rough here for a while. Toronto fans were like, thank you. Like, this is what we want to do. This is a move. I think there was an element of the Toronto fans that were thrilled to hear that.

Another factor that you have to weigh with Detroit is, you have a coach in Jeff Washel who, this is a pretty big season for him in terms of, you know, the pressure being on him to prove that he's the guy that should be behind the bench. And you have a general manager in Ken Holland, who

is entering the last year of his contract. And I think that, I think ownership on some level has put them in a tough spot because, you know, if you give Ken Holland a contract extension and say, hey, your goal is to build a Stanley Cup winner in four years or something or five, you know, I think that's a different message than if you're saying, hey, you're entering the last year of your contract. Let's just see how this goes. At some level, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's tough right now, man. I mean, if you look at the their page on cap friendly, for example, it's, uh, they have so much money for so many years invested

in a bunch of guys who, you know, you can make the argument just in a vacuum or fine enough players, but, like, aren't moving the needle for this franchise. So it's, I think it's going to, it's going to take a few years to, to dig out of this whole, or sort of, they back themselves into this corner. It's going to take a few years. And I think that the sooner they, it's easy, like, just like with the Tavaris thing, it's much easier for me to just say, just completely blow it up, because I'm not emotionally invested in it at all.

I think the sooner they kind of recognize what's going on here and address it and do it properly, the better they'll be for it. Because like you mentioned, it's really tough in today's NHL landscape with the CAP situation to kind of just like half-ass it and try to tread water for a while and then all of a sudden hit a couple home runs and be back into contender status. Like you do need those peaks and valleys, I think. Yeah. No, that's fair.

At least we've seen that we can sit there and go. you know, here's exhibit A, B and C of teams that have done it. The problem is, you know, for every one of those, there's also the ones that, even like Buffalo, like, I think Tim Murray, for the most part, I agreed with everything he did. Like, when Tim Murray was making moves, where you're sitting there going, ooh, I don't know about that. Like, he tore it down. He was aggressive in it. And along with Darcy's here at the beginning. And then, but you know what?

Ping pong ball doesn't bounce. And sometimes you get Jack Eichol, who's a good player, but you didn't get Connem of David. and you know or you're picking second in the draft that just doesn't have you're picking second in the you know a couple of drafts and one time you get jack eichael and you know the next time you're getting sam reinhart you know what i'm saying who's not gonna he's not going to end up being one of those guys yeah but i mean obviously now timore's not around anymore to uh to reap the rewards of this but like wouldn't you you'd much rather take the sabre's current situation than the red wings right 100% yeah

Like, yeah, which roster I'd rather have right now? I would rather have a Sabre roster. Yeah. It's just, but like I still don't think that's a playoff roster, so you're now another year out of it. And I'm not like, I, you know, I don't want to come off as arguing against it. But like, it's just, it's going to, like, that's going to, like, that's going to have a miserable process it can go through. Like, when was the last time the Sabres were in the playoffs or a team that you thought could win the Stanley Cup? It's been.

Yeah, it's been a while. It's been a while. It's been a while. It's going to be a while since we say that about the Red Wings, too, though, so. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Connor Riley asks, you know, he asks about this was a bit of Jad deal and kind of compares it to what Victor Arbitson went for and asks whether the Rangers got a good deal or not.

And I think, you know, rather than comparing those two contracts, I'm much more interested in discussion about, you know, what the predators have made a living on doing the past few years by sort of getting their younger players to take potentially less future money for the security of being, you know, locked up long term and knowing that there could be getting paydays for years to come. And, you know, with a guy like Victor Arbitson, there was a debate when he, when he signed about why he would settle for 4.25 per season when last year he played as a bona fide first line winger, and he's only 24 years old. And it's, you know, if he has another year or two like that, all of a sudden he could be making in the $7 million range or at least in the sixes.

But at the same time, I think people are overlooking the fact that when someone offers you $30 million, it's really hard to say no to that. That's really hard. I mean, who knows? And so that one, that's a seven-year deal. I'm trying to figure out how old he would be when he gets out of that deal. 31, I think. Yeah.

Yeah. So, you know, so you're losing a few years. and unrestricted. But let's say he does become that first line winger over the course of this. He's going to have a couple years where he's underpaid. But, I mean, we've seen it. 31-year-olds are still getting pretty big contracts and pre-agency. And I mean, who knows what's going to happen in seven years.

But, you know, there's what I'm giving up. There's a second contract to be had after this one. That probably can be pretty good. And I think if you're the national predators, this is the way you have to approach these things. because you are taking on some risk in signing a guy this long, but the better, you know, but then you end up having contracts like Roman Yossi's, like, you know, we mentioned Doug and Keith contract,

but holy smokes, Roman Yosea at $4 million for another two years after this season is in the Echholm deal. Same thing. And I, you know, I talked to somebody, executive with another team shortly at the Arvinson deal with town, and he's like, he's more valuable now than he was yesterday, that contract, like his trust. like his trade value just went up.

And how often can you say that about a guy who just signed a long-term contract extension? Like this is a guy, and that's the beauty of these teams, these deals is you know that's a good sign when you can do a long-term deal. And people are like, ooh, you know, I want to trade for that guy now. Yeah. I mean, the past two seasons, he was making $640K and all of a sudden now he gets offered those $30 million. It's very easy. And it is one of those things where you have to acknowledge the risk reward. and it's quite possible that he gets injured next season

and all of a sudden the landscape changes for him completely, right? So there is something to be said about having that type of security and knowing that you're going to be in a good place. And I get it from him and for the national predators, they keep doing these types of deals. And I think that that's, we talk about how it's a copycat league, other teams should be looking around and paying attention to what they're doing

because their cap situation is fantastic. And it's mostly because they're just dominating, they're dominating the market in terms of getting these young players for their like mid-20s for way below market value. And that's the way you should be structuring these contracts rather than. You know, yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, you know who's good at this job is Paul Fenton? Like how he hasn't gotten another GM or gotten a GM job. And I mean, David Poyle, obviously, but Paul, you know, is behind the scenes and he's like to, you know, run the draft for years.

I mean, not only of these great players that they're signing to great contracts, like these are, great players. They're getting at good spots in the draft. And in fact, when we talk about, you know, what team hasn't bottomed out? Like, when was the last time the Predators were at the top of the draft? Like, this is the team that's kind of done it pretty well. There was that one year when they got Seth Jones and really everything just fell apart for that.

That's right. And it was like Merrick Mazannick was a thing for a few months. And then all of a sudden he fell on. Was that the lockout year? I think so, yeah. That might have been the lockout year. That was a good year to bottom out. That was the year to bottom out.

I remember talking to George McPhee about this I went to Washington they started out really slow I get hopefully I can share this now there's been enough time and no one listens to this

you're fine no one's like so I went into with B.C you remember like Govetchen came and like struggled right off a hop all the people coming back out of the lockout

that played in the KHL I think there was some some adjustment issues and I'm like boy what an opportunity you know this is the time to this is the year to just like take a year

off here. You know, there's only whatever, 30 games left. You're the capital, it's get a top pick. And, you know, I, you know, I think George on some level was like, you know, that makes sense. But at the same time, that's the market with pressure to win, not stop.

Especially when you have a player like Ovechkin. Not only did they not do that, they traded, that was the year they traded Forgeburg. Yeah. I just would listen to me. I mean, having a, I'll Obviously, like, when you bottom out, the year could be very, very long for your fans. And obviously, if you're only playing an abbreviated schedule, that definitely is the time.

Like, that's the year to do it. Yeah. I think, yep, that's, so maybe, I doubt, I thought it was intentional for Nashville, but it worked out pretty well. It would take, uh, it would take a really sadistic mind and, and a long con at that. But if, uh, I hope there's one team out there right now, just like planning to bottom out, uh, specifically for this next lockout. Yeah. Well, I can tell you, like, every contract that's, being done now, like if you look at how they're structured, are all structured around that lockout.

Like everyone's just like, okay, yeah, with the lockout of 20, whatever it is. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's how we're approaching this now. Like, it's, it's scheduled. So there was a question later on here about offer sheets. But since we're on the Predators and since you, as you mentioned, wrote about Ryan your Hansen and Offer Sheets, do want to get into that a little bit here? Yeah. I love Offer Sheets.

We could have talked this whole podcast. So the thing you hear constantly from executives in terms of why it doesn't happen is because you don't want to bread bridges or you don't want to have other teams coming for you when you're in a similar spot. But if you look at some of the offer sheets that have been signed over the years, there isn't really any sort of notable retaliation to speak of for any of them. that were signed. So I feel like that is kind of an unfounded argument a little bit. Here's what I would say. That gets brought up a lot, maybe because I always include it in my analysis when I'm talking to people.

But the number one reason is when you talk to people, they don't think they work. If teams could get players with offer sheets, GMs would do it all the time. And it's just the way the system is set up right now, the offer sheet gets matched every single time. You have to go back to Dustin Penner in 2007. And then before that, it was 1997.

So we're talking two decades of offer sheet possibilities, and two of them were successful in getting the player. So when I talk to GMs, and they're like, yeah, if I thought I could get the player, I would do it. But otherwise, the assumption is they're going to match. So then all you're doing, and then it gets to the second point that people, you know, bring up. All you're doing then is inflating salaries.

And you're inviting yourself to, you know, become a target. And, you know, you're eating up any goodwill you might have with, you know, general managers and your colleagues and that sort of thing. But all that would go aside if General Manager's thought they truly could get the player if they signed up to an option, I believe. But isn't there a little bit of a gamesmanship here where, okay, let's take the Edmonton Oilers, for example, with Leon Dreightel. he's you know he had this comment a couple weeks ago now where he was saying that

you know he thought he was like a a nine million dollar player or so or something to that effect and then you know peter shirley comes out and says listen like we're going to match anything anyone signs and that's perfectly fine but there is there is an element to okay but if we make the oilers pay a couple extra million that they might not have to otherwise here then all of a sudden they're going to be in a tougher spot financially and might not be able to either retain players or might have to trade other guys down the line and that sort of gives you a competitive advantage

as a team that it's in theory competing directly against Edmonton Oilers. Right. I get that. And I like that in theory. But then when it comes time, I'm trying to think of a team that would do this. Let's say you're doing it just to screw up the Oilers' cap situation.

Then you've got, you know, you've got to drive. Drysidal signs for 2 million more than maybe you would have otherwise. Now you've got a new comparable on the market when it comes time to do your young forward's contract. And his agent says, hey, you know, you guys thought Leon Drysadol was worth nine and a half. You know, I know I'm not Leon Drys Idol, but I'm certainly not four million less than Leand Drys Idol, right? So now you've not only screwed up the oilers cap situation, you've now cost, you know, in theory, and this is how they think. Like, I've had these conversations. you've screwed up your cap situation

because now you've got to go to your guy they don't want to hear hey I was just doing it to screw up the oilers we don't really think he's worth it like that's not going to fly for the most part so that's and I'm not saying that's right or wrong but that's kind of I can tell you

that's the thought process and also I'm looking now there's the retaliation there was there was uh it looks like there was the you remember the David back is Steve Bernier oh man that was the last version of like, good thing that cuts retain Steve Brinney.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Where the blues really showed them there. Well, this happens more in the, more in the NBA than NHL, obviously, because, uh, because of the RFA system and, and because more offersheets are signed.

But, like, sometimes, uh, the, the teams that sign a guy to an offer sheet, but it gets matched, like, wind up looking back at it and being super relieved that they didn't wind up getting the player. Um, so I think, you, you can make that argument. I mean, the Steve Bernier one was a, was a small one. So it wouldn't have been crippling. But it is something. times one of those things where there is a gamble involved that's never necessarily a sure thing.

Like I feel very good that Leon Drey Seidel was an awesome player that would be worth $9.5 million per season. But maybe maybe two years for now, all of a sudden you're looking back and going like, whew, I'm glad he's not on our books for 9.5. But if you're going to overpay for a guy, like GMs have, don't seem to have a huge issue doing it on July 1st with Unrestricted Created 2 or 30. Right. And they'll do it with the explanation saying, yeah, I had to hold my notes.

but if you want to get the player, this is what it cost to play ball. Right. So, you know, it was two years longer than I wanted, but we wanted to get the player. And to me, if you're going to overpay,

I weigh would rather overpay for dry title, who at least has some potential attached to him still. And, you know, or even like, you know, Ryan O'Reilly,

so, like, you know, he's going to end up, we're going to look back at Ryan O'Reilly's career and, like, his contract, like, he's always paid a little bit more

than he probably should have been. But still, like, I'd rather, overpay for a centerman, you know, an Olympic centerment than some guy in from so like, I don't know. I think they're underutilized for sure. But it's, I think the system is probably the blame too.

Like I'm not. No, Craig, just hold on a second. Someone, someone's drilling upstairs. Just wait a second. A big part of the reason we're able to keep churning out the show throughout the summer while everyone else seemingly has taken time off to enjoy their well-deserved offseason break is because of the fine folks at Siki. who are sponsoring today's episode of the Hockeypedio cast.

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You can get the detail. Yes. While we're doing that. Okay, so Craig, while we were last talking, we were talking about players, the NHL should be marketing to their more casual, maybe fans to get them interested in the product and show them how fun and exciting the NHL and hockey in general can be.

Who are some of these guys that the league should be marketing more aggressively? Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, I think TK, obviously, a good one, but I don't know. Like, it's funny. Like, is that on the league or is that on teams? I always have this debate because I don't know how much the league does in terms of pumping guys up.

Like, I guess the question would be, who do I feel doesn't get the attention he deserves? And I think part of it is, is you have to match a personality with that. Like, if I think of, like, maybe like a guy like Nicholas Baxter, maybe is under-appreciation. as a player and his contributions to the game. But, like, Baxterum's a pretty, like, chill, low-key guy. Like, I don't know if you put him on stage. Like, I mean, we've all seen, like, those Geico commercials.

And I think we're okay not seeing him on the spotlight too much. And I think he is, too. A guy who I think is really funny that probably could be, have more attention than even gets now is Eric Carlson. And I would be okay to see him. I mean, Crosby and Ovetkin are certainly, that's that generation and now we're seeing McDavid and Matthews kind of be

this generation and I think it would be cool a couple of those like superstar defensemen you know I think you can even throw Brent Burns into there like Burns and Sue Van and Carlson these are such unique players they're so fun to watch and each one of them

has their own kind of unique personality like all really funny I would be if I'm the league I'm pushing those three as much as I possibly can well and part of it does have to happen organically. And, you know, guys like Burns and Carlson, you just mentioned, they're really good examples because each of the past two seasons, we've seen their teams make long playoff runs. And then at that point, it's much easier to sort of kind of show those guys off when fewer

teams and fewer players are playing and you can kind of key in on them more. And that's like a big, huge national stage to market them on. So I agree. I think, you know, the league definitely could do a bit of a better job, especially like on those Wednesday night rivalry nights. You know, you could go out of your way to maybe market specific players. specific teams a bit more. But, yeah, I mean, I think this is a big discussion. We could really do like a full podcast on this in terms of whether the NHL is doing enough to or devoting their energy and resources in the right places to attract casual fans

because, you know, like a league like the NBA has done such a great job of it over the past couple years. And some of that has to do with the fact that the product is at an all time high and it kind of speaks for itself. But I mean, so the same argument can be made for the NHL. I mean, you look at guys like McDavid and Matthews that are coming into the league, and there's absolutely no reason why people shouldn't be excited about the direction that NHL is headed in.

I mean, the guy Geraldin's excited about it. He got, he got pumped up. You like that answer. I, you know, I think a lot of it, like, so much of it is, depends on how, you know, the long runs these teams make. like who really appreciated Ange Copatar until the king started going on a run or you know,

or Drew Dowdy until really, to me his breakout stage was the Olympics in 2010 and people like, oh my gosh, this kid is unbelievable. And you watch how Mike Babcock used them and it was clearly a trust there. So part of it has to be organically.

And yeah, I think there's ways that the league and maybe the media on some level, but I can tell you like, you know, when I was at ESPN, I could write about, like even it was in the same team. I could write about Gany Malkin and it would get lukewarm clicks from fans.

And I could write the same story about Sidney Crosby and it got a trillion clicks. And so, you know, it's a business and we're trying to make money. So you write more about Sidney Crosby and then everyone goes, oh my gosh, you know, another Sydney Crosby story. And it's like, well, you guys are clicking on it. Like crazy. And when we do write about Malkin, who, as we all know, is underappreciated and probably doesn't give the attention. he deserves and probably was the right answer to the initial question, people aren't as interested in it. And so, you know, I think that generates part of the interest, too, for whatever

reason. Yeah. No, believe me, I'm not sure how much my bosses will appreciate me talking about this, but I definitely get asked to write about Canadian teams or at least kind of try to bring them in on the discussion because people are very interested in those markets and click it a lot. And that's sort of what drives the business. So it's, you got to, yeah. What's wrong with saying that? Like, like, does, you know, our counterpart for the Moscow, you know, newspaper,

every time he writes Ovechkin or whatever, that probably gets more quick. So, like, do Russian hockey fans get mad that Sidney Crosby isn't covering up? Like, I think it's okay to be a little, you know, territorial in your coverage. Yeah. I don't know.

Because that's where the interest is. Like, that's, you know, this guy's from your province or your state or whatever. There's a connection to that. Yeah, I'm with you. I just would like to see there is an impasse between how fun hockey is

and how fun the NHL is sometimes and I'd like to see that become a thing that's kind of more utilized and appreciated and branded properly. So I'm not sure what the right strategy is, but I feel like there's some solution there. Fun in terms of the sport and like how it's played.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you have anyone sit down and watch, especially like a playoff game, I think everyone would agree. playoff hockey is the absolute best. But sometimes the decisions the NHL makes might not necessarily be the most conducive to making it a fun league to follow.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't think the NHL... I've always contended that the popularity of hockey and the NHL exceeds kind of in spite of the league at times in their efforts. Like, that's just, you know, I see stuff and I'm like, oh, my gosh, what a missed opportunity.

Yeah. That's another discussion for another day. Okay, so my guy, wavy gravy here asks. He asks, where does Markov end up now that the Habs have decided not to bring him back? And he asked this before it came out, then Markov is going back to the KHL. Yeah, I can answer that one. Yes, we can answer that. But are you, I guess the question here is, were you surprised that that happened?

Obviously, maybe some of it has to do with the alluming Olympics and eligibility for that. but he did make it seem like he wanted to come back to Montreal, even on a one-year deal, and there wasn't mutual interest. And I find that surprising, considering that despite his advancing age, he's still a very useful top four NHL defensemen, and the HABs don't have four of those guys, so there's something weird going on there. Here's what I think is weird.

To me, this is the question I'd like to answer. So, okay, you have no room from Markov who still is great for your power play. You're trying to win a Stanley Cup this year. Montreal clearly you've got an aging Shea Weber you've got a big number coming for Kerry Price and you're sitting and you're a team that's like you know, raking in money so you can spend all you want

and you're sitting on it almost 8.5 million in Cap Space right now. Yeah. Can you explain that to me? Well, I mean, something's up to me in Montreal. Yeah, it sounds like if they're working on something to fill that gap, I'm not sure what. Well, it's not a Ryan Johansson offer sheet. That was one of my. working series.

Yeah. Maybe it's a Leon Dreis-eddle offer sheet. I'm like, I don't know. Like what's that $8 million, that's not going to do you any good, you know, in your Stanley Cup efforts, you don't spend it. Yeah. Yeah, that $8 million in cap space is going to be a pretty good defense partner to show Weber next season.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm just, that to me is a question. So if you have no room for Markov for whatever reason, And that to me suggests that you got, I don't know, maybe there's something else cooking. And Montreal is one of those teams. You don't get a lot of information out of. So I'm just like looking at it from, you know, from the outside saying what are they up to? Okay.

Christian Veselovsky here asks if you could set one star player free from their current team. And he used the term terrible team. I'll just say team. Who would it be? So is there a player that's like, and it's been in a situation for a few years that might be one of those stars that is goes overlooked just because he's not playing on a big stage or having that playoff spotlight that you'd like to see while he's still in his prime

and his most effective years get that opportunity even if it's on another team? You know who that would have been was Eric Carlson. Like I want to set him free and then they went on, you know, they could have been playing for Stanley Cups. And that's what's what's so weird about the league. week, you know, like, and teams will say, hey, look, I don't know what I did it, so we can do it. So if they use that kind of stuff to justify maybe not great decisions. Yeah.

But I would have said, I would, that would be my candidate. And it still kind of is because I just, I thought that was fluky and I don't, I can't imagine that happening again. And like, I'm, I'm worried that, that we're going to see, you know, I'm just worried that we're not going to see him on the stages we want to see him on. in the next few years. And to kind of bring the podcast full circle, maybe John Tavares would be the other guy.

Like, you know, I'm not sure what the Islanders are doing. And I don't see them as a team that's on the cusp of greatness. And I think John Tavares is a great player who should be, when we talk about Taves and we talk about Crosdy, like Tavares should come naturally next. And it just, it doesn't now because he hasn't had that opportunity through no fault of his own. So I would, you know,

I would like to. free job to this. So I have two answers here. One is the more conventional one and that's Oliver Eckman-Larsen. You know, at least at least the coyotes made a concerted effort this year to get a bunch of NHL players. So they, uh, they should be respectable next season at least. So that'll be a big step. And, you know, if he all of a sudden plays with a guy like Johnerson, I feel like that's going to be like the best partner he's had and that'll be fascinating to see how he responds to that. I think the other guy, and I don't want to free this guy, I just want the team to sort of finally put it all together. And that's Blake Wheeler with the Winnipeg Jets.

I think that, like if you look at pretty much any sort of deeper metric, I mean, even obviously just by points, he shows really well. But if you look at anything more advanced than that, like Blake Wheeler generally rates as one of the best most effective players in the league. And I feel like a lot of more casual fans would just be surprised by that, just because, he's played on this Winnipeg team that just consistently is disappointed. And I don't know. I think he's awesome. And he's sort of that prototypical power forward that, you know, captures your imagination and really gets people excited.

And I feel like if he was playing on a more, on a better, more successful team, people would sort of finally realize just how good and dominant he can be. Yeah, he's an interesting one because, yeah, when he sometimes you see his numbers and his advanced stats, and he jumps off the charts a little bit. like, wow, we're not appreciating, you know, maybe him for what he is. And speaking, he's a guy, I like his contract too. They did a nice job on that one.

Yeah, they did. I like that a lot. Winnipeg has a little bit of that, you know, sometimes they do that Nashville thing, too, and I think that's smart. Yeah, Winnipeg and Carolina are the two teams where I'm like, every summer. I'm like, you know what? I really like the players these teams have if their goal denting can hold up, they could really make a nice little run and surprise people here.

and both teams brought in a goalie this summer that will hopefully finally do that for them. So I'm optimistic, but I've said the exact same thing for the past like three summers, so don't listen to me when it comes to those two teams. All right, I'm going to put you on the spot. Which team has more points during the regular season,

Winnipeg or Carolina this year? Oh, I'll go in a peg just because I think the Metro division is brutal. Okay. I think it's going to be real. Carolina, let's just make a bet. Let's bet a beer. I'm not saying I feel strongly about this,

but I always just like to take the other side. Yeah, let's do it. That'll be a fun one to follow. I think it'll be pretty close, honestly. I think both teams could be in the low 90s, I guess. I think Carolina's goalie choice better. That would be my, if I was to argue this. Yeah, like what Carolina didn't go a little bit better.

Yeah, no, that's fair. That's definitely fair. Let's do one or two more questions here, since it seems like the drilling has slowed down, although I'm sure. It's your really tempting face. I like it. A really tempting day.

So passive voice asks, what was the biggest team level missed opportunity this offseason? Or, and then he goes, maybe a team not recognizing a window to win or to sell high or something else. Was there a team this summer that you thought maybe went in a direction you wouldn't have gone in if you were running the team? Biggest missed opportunity. Wow. Do you have an answer so I can really think this through? See, I want to say Toronto here. And I understand that they, you know, they spent a bunch of money on Patrick Marlowe and he's going to be a nice little upgrade.

And, you know, they bring in Ron Hainsey. But we talked about this during the season. I remember you wrote about it where there's this window with Matthews, Marner, and Nylander making just peanuts compared to what they're going to be making a few years from now. And I'd like to see them sort of think big and swing for the fences and try to bring. in players that would actually sort of really move the needle. And I just don't think, I, like, I'm underwhelmed by the summer they had. Like, they're going to be better next season just because their players are going to develop and they did add a few guys.

But I feel like it could have been more inspiring. So they're one team. I guess you can make sort of similar argument with Edmonton. I would have definitely said that before they got like a UC Yokinan for next to nothing and even took a flyer on Johan Avi too. and I like those moves, but even before that, I thought that, like last year, for example, while they had Dreisiel and McDavid both on their entry levels, they really should have gone for it and they just kind of were content sitting back and just treating the season as a success

based on how bad they'd been the years prior. Those are good ones. You know, I'm with you on Toronto. I remember that I wrote, like, I'm in like, they should just be in full and all in mode right now. and I think the Marlow signing indicates that. Like, you're signing Marlow really for the next two. You had to give them three years. I don't think there's anybody in Toronto that really believes year three is going to be of a ton of use.

I don't think. Maybe. So that was for the next couple of years. And so that signals to me that they feel the same way that you do. I just, I agree. I think they could have been a little bit more aggressive. How about the Jets? You know, I won't, you know, they're so patient.

but I'm not sure what I wanted them to do more than they did. You know, when they did address their goal tending, I guess I wasn't crazy. With all the goalies available, I would have liked to see them upgrade a little bit more than Steve Mason. Because I just think at some point you've got to tell that fan base, you know, yes, we are collecting young talent here. But it's, you know, I would have liked to see them off the aggressiveness a little bit

just because they do have some of the good young players there. It would be nice to see them have a little bit more of a sure thing in goal. now. Yeah. Yeah. I think on the other end of the things, a part of the question was a team that maybe should have sold high or tried to cashed in while they can.

Were you surprised that the San Jose Sharks were kind of just willing to bring the band back together sans Patrick Marlowe? I mean, I guess there wasn't much they could have done. Like, obviously bringing back Joe Thornton as opposed to just losing them for nothing is better. But, I mean, I don't know. I just seem like they... You wanted them to sell?

I'm not sure what San Jose could have done. Well, I mean, this is another one of those things where it's easy for us to, from while we're podcasting here to make these kind of outlandish trades, but what could they have gotten for Brent Burns in a trade this summer? Oh, man. No, I mean, they could have gotten a ton, but you trade Brent Burns and you're spending the next 10 years trying to get that guy back. Yeah.

Look, here's the thing about the, here's the thing about the sharks. Yeah, they're going to, they're going to, They're going to turn it over. You let Marlowe walk. You know, Joe Thornton's got whatever, one or two years left. You know, you, you maybe can argue that they can still with a core of, let's say, it's Coachure, Pavalsky, Brent Burns, and Martin Jones still put together another team, you know, with that core, minus Marlon Thornton that can have some success.

Yeah. I mean, that would, I'm not sure with the show. I was, like, I'm not sure I could have supported a Brent Burns trade. Well, then you're, then you're, then you're completely at Thornt and Morrow. Yeah, no, I guess, yeah, you can trade anybody to your original point. But I just think they were in a tough spot. I, I think they have to, at least if you are going to sign Burns to that extension, and you are going to, you know, you're clearly trying to stick with that defense with last

contract's extension of Jones's contract extension of goal. You're saying, okay, we're still trying to win now. I would like to see the sharks make a move to add 25 goals on the wing that they lost in Marlow. That's a real production that's gone.

As much as maybe we didn't want Marlow to, you don't want to pay him what he got in Toronto. We still have to replace that somehow for the sharks. Yeah. So I think that's something you have to address at some point. Yeah, he always got a concern alternative. Okay, one final thing. We haven't really talked about Washington Capitals much on this podcast.

And I got a few questions about that. You know, like Christian Flores asked if someone had offered sheated Berkovsky, what would they have done? Would they have moved some other pieces or would they have just had to have let him walk? And Jess Hughes asks about trying to get ahead on, you know, John Carlson's free agency considering he has one year left and whether they probably can't, we'll be able to afford them if they should kind of look into trading them now. I mean, if you're the capitals, is it sort of what we just talked about with the,

with the sharks where, I mean, you're such a good team that you just kind of have to bring it back, even if that might not be the sexiest option. Because there's not, there aren't too many moves they can make here other than really getting super aggressive in trying to, let's blow it up by trading really good players for future young assets. Yeah, like, it's just,

we're going to look back at this last, or that last playoff is the giant missed opportunity for the capitals. I mean, that series, I was on that whole penguin's capital series, and the whole time you're like, how are the penguins winning this? I mean, it was like even to the point when it was over and you go on the Capitol's dressing room after

and nobody had any answers. And it was like, boy, this was their best shot. And it's not like they played poorly. Like I wasn't, you know, it's not like they choked. Like they all played them for long stretches in that series. And then it was just like Sidney Crosby, you know, and Bill Custle had a couple moments. It was just like those stars kind of,

wield the penguins to wins in the opportune times. And, um, what I, like I was with you and I know, I kind of know where you stand on this. Like I was in the let T.J. O.C. walk. Yeah. And, and give Berikovsky, um, give him a little bit more, uh, offensive opportunity. So that to me, like, if we're going to, if we're going to critique the offseason, I would, I would have, and I don't know what it looked like, but I would have loved to see them find a way to keep the nation around because now that defense, you're you're losing two completely different kind of players, but in Olsner and Schmidt, but there are, you know, still two big parts of that D. And so I, I don't know.

I mean, last year was there, that was a year to go for it. And maybe they compounded a little bit by a couple decisions I probably don't agree with. Well, that's the thing. I mean, right now I would be all in on selling high on John Carlson because. I am too. I wrote that too. I thought they should have moved Carlson and then three up because now his number is going to be crazy. Well, he's turning 28 in January and, you know, he's on this great contract right now where he's been making like under $4 million for the past five or six years.

But he's going to get him, he's going to cash in. And he's one of those players where I feel like there's always been a mismatch between the physical tools and the actual production. Like he puts up the points and he plays on the power play and he has the big. shot and you know he can be a big hitter and he can be physical and he looks smooth out there but it's never really necessarily translated into him being this impactful five-on-five guy and I it's tough to justify trading him now considering this is still a team that fancies itself a contender and having lost schmidt and alzner if you trade carlson as well and don't get back a defenseman that trade all of a sudden you're relying on a bunch of hL or super young guys to to eat up a lot

of minutes on the blue line and that's not the an optimal position to be in so they might just have to ride it out with Carlson this season but I wouldn't want to be on the hook for his next contract either and I feel like teams there's got to be at least one team in the league that is super high on John Carlson as a as a player and I feel like you could get a nice return so I would have explored that but with everything that's happened this summer it might be tougher to do now I feel like well now you've kind of box yourself in on some level you can't you can't lose Nate Schmidt Carl's or and John. Carlson.

The number on Johanson's eight. Eight, yeah, I'm seeing that too, but I'm wondering why you're looking at your Twitter and while you're answering this question. Are you not devoting all your full attention to me? For the record, it came to the text. So that's why I answered that. Okay. Okay.

Did Ryan text you or did David Poyle text you? Yeah, like I feel like I'm being mocked right now. I mean, it's on Twitter as well. I can see that. but you were asking why I'm on Twitter while you're talking. I wasn't on Twitter. I was receiving a text from someone that says 8x8. Okay.

All right. All right. One final thing here. I got asked Josh Skapen asks, does the Gidna play in the NHL again? And I guess you could ask the similar thing about a guy like Shane Dohn, for example. Do you think that they're going to sign on with a team? or do you, there's a school of thought that, you know, some of these veterans could potentially, uh,

chill out for the first few months, participate in the Olympics and then sign on with a contender after that. Like does that, does it, have you heard rumblings about that being, uh, an intriguing option for some of these guys? It's been even like a guy, like,

quite friendly, like I haven't explored this with anybody. So I haven't talked to anybody about this. So I don't, but it would just be me saying if I was in Jerome, a Gimeless shoes or Shane don't choose, what would I do? And, I mean,

like, a Gimelan wasn't particularly good last year, right? Like, what, you know, if there was a team that, I mean, I don't know, these are two great players, great players of their generation and great dudes. So I don't have a huge appetite to run them down or where they are in their career. But I'll say, like,

if I was them and I had an opportunity to play in the Olympics and go out that way, I think that has much more appeal than to try to be, you know, let's say a fourth liner on a team or something at this point. Like these are great, great players. I would rather than see that.

And then who knows? Like, let's say they hold out, you know, and say, I want to play for Canada and they get that opportunity and there's some great story book story and then some team says, great, we're going to pick you up for the stretch run. That, to me, it's the dream scenario

if you want of these two guys. Yeah. Yeah, they don't have much left in the tank. I mean, you know, a guy like I ama could be useful on the power play in the right situation and maybe that would be appealing to a contender but it is always it is like I understand as

as high end competitors that they have this desire to keep playing as long as they can but as a fan it's it can be sometimes a little disheartening or depressing seeing these guys go out this way when you remember like how great they were at their at their peak

and how would the shell of themselves that they are right now I mean with the HM like six goals last year I did not have more than that I don't know Now where are you at on Yager Because I know like there's people that are banging the drum That they can't believe he can't find The spot in the NHL this year

And I'm not sure Like I know his numbers are good And his underlying numbers are all good But man He slows a game down when he's on the ice I would say like you have to basically change the way you play Yeah When you're sending him over the boards

Yeah there's definitely a specific fits And teams that don't make sense like he wouldn't have made sense for a team like the Leafs, obviously. I think he has more left in the tank than those other guys. And, you know, I brought up this point on the last podcast where I think he, there's no reason a guy like him should be playing 80 regular season games. So if he sits out the first few months and then comes back for the final, whatever, 30, 40 games and then gets ready for the postseason. Like, that makes a lot more sense to me. So I'm not outraged that he hasn't signed yet.

But if he gets completely just driven. driven out of the NHL, I will be a bit sad because I do think he still has something left to contribute to a contender. Yeah. No, that's true. All right. Yeah, I think we've done our due diligence here. Man, we, um, we, uh, we should, we made a, a mastered and worthy comeback there for, uh,

it really was like to pat ourselves in the back. We were, we were in the ropes there. I was actually worried. What's that drill is going? I was worried. I was really worried about how this is going to end. I'll be honest. We did it, Craig.

We, uh, we did it. Um, do you have anything in the plug? I know you're, uh, you're going on vacation soon, but as you mentioned, you guys are banging out some high quality and quantity work at the athletics. We are, yeah, I would just encourage hockey fans to, if you're not checking out what the athletic is doing right now, download the app. Um, if it's not in your city, still download the app and subscribe because we're, the money that's being invested in this, both through like venture capitalists.

and through our subscribers is being immediately reinvested in writers and talent and giving them a platform and an opportunity to tell better stories. And, you know, we're able to do under the traditional media restraints. And on a platform that's clean and ad free and no pop up, all that stuff. So, and I can also tell you, like, we've got a couple more announcements that are going to come in August that are unbelievable. Like, there's more to come, and I'm really excited about that. Yeah, you guys are really taking over the hockey world, and it's exciting. I'm looking forward to seeing who those names are, and we will definitely get you back on the show sometime down the road.

So enjoy the rest of your summer. Thanks for sitting through all that drilling, and we'll chat soon. All right, thanks, DimitioCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockeypedeocast.