The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 191: With the Benefit of Hindsight, Part 2

Episode Date: August 17, 2017

Garret Hohl is back for Part 2 of this offseason series we've undertaken, in which we're redoing each entry draft of the past decade now that we have more information about how things will play out. This time, we go through the years 2011-2015. 2:15 2011 Draft 11:30 2012 Draft 24:00 2013 Draft 45:15 2014 Draft 57:30 2015 Draft If you’d like to get in on the fun or just have your voice heard in a future episode, feel free to send your questions in on either Twitter or via email and we’ll try to get to them the next time we do a mailbag show. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. And joining me for part two of this redrafting with the benefit of hindsight extravaganza is Garrett Holt. Garrett, what's going on, man? Oh, I'm getting ready to pile into the draft, starting with when the Winnipeg Jets returned. Yeah, this is a big one for you. So for those of you who haven't listened to part one of this, everything would make a lot more

sense if you do. We did 2006 to 2010 on that one, and now we're going to do 2011 to 2015. So basically, let's quickly rehash things, just for those of you that, you know, we've been talking for so long now, then maybe people have forgotten. What's our methodology? Like, how are we constructing this? Because it's obviously not just randomly willy-nilly, just picking names out of a hat. Yeah.

What we kind of mentioned earlier is because of the fact that we're going over a span of time that has a lot of players who've already passed their peak. And with the earlier years, like the last podcast, that was a lot more career overall impact. And now, because of the fact we're looking more with players who may not have hit their full stride quite yet, there's a lot more speculation in terms of what their career overall value is. And I think we said that we're going to try to limit it as much as possible with the what-if games, even though I try to slide one with Jordan Stahl. Yes.

I think that's a good good good way to sum it up and especially now I mean 2011 it has been a handful of years but like when we get to like 2014 or 2015 it's obviously a lot of it is still kind of projection base I do 2016 just in case yeah I didn't want to do 2016 we should have done 2017 how do we how do we feel of all this draft Patrick Liner first overall for 2016 you guys are going to have to tune into part three of this podcast to hear that take um so this is a fascinating draft because Ryan Newgen Hopkins went first. Yeah. He is not first on my list. No. In hindsight. He is not in my top.

Well, he's... I have him 10th, but I guess you could put him as far up as like 6th or 7th. But he dropped quite a bit for me in this list. It's definitely interesting because both Ryan Newton Hopkins and Gabriel Lannis Gogg were number one's and number two for the draft. and they didn't end up bus. No. They actually came out with early in their career pretty strong NHLers.

Yep. But people have kind of passed them. Yes. And usually when you're dealing with, like, you know, like the early guys, it was that didn't really quite make it often. It's, you know, the early guys that, you know, maybe probably shouldn't have been given a chance in the first place. Like we kind of went over Eric Johnson earlier.

Or, you know, you have the guys who just never quite connected, like, the nail of Yakobovs, which I'm sure we're going to deal with in a bit. But this was different. These were, you know, Ryan and Adrian Hopkins and Gabriel Lannisog when they first came in the NHL, people were like, okay, maybe they should have been, like, number one and number two. But I don't actually have either of them in my top 10. I have them 10th and 11th. Yeah.

So, yeah, not ideal. Obviously, it turned out to be fine in NHL player, so it's not like they were just complete busts. but. And my top three or not first round picks? Yeah, I agree with that. I'm very curious to hear who your top three are because... And they go rounds two, rounds four, and rounds three. Although I kind of, you know, my number...

I'm looking where Nikita Kucharov went before I can verify that. Yes. Yes. Actually, no, my third overall is Mark Sheifley. Oh, okay. I have him fourth. I went with Nikita Kutrov. Yeah.

Johnny Godreau. Yep. Vincent Trot. So, yeah, Brennan Sott. Ooh. But he was also a second round pick. Yes. No, no.

Trochik was third. Third round. It's amazing because Brennan Sott was like the third guy or something that the Blackhawks took in the second round of this draft. And it was the best of them. Yeah. And it's like, if the Blackhawks were so sold on Brennan's sod and they had his second best second rounder of that whole draft, not just a one. not just the ones that yeah um so yeah kutrov gudrow chifely saw it for me i have trocheck uh coming up very soon um i'm big on trochec yeah not not just i mean he's an analytical darling he's got

great war um he just had a great season healthy um for the most part and on top of it i just love his game style he's a fun player to watch he's a he's an awesome player i mean there's a lot of those, there's a lot of fascinating, like, two-way guys who are... Yeah, and I'm trying not to be biased towards Jets players. So maybe I put Shifley one spot two. Yeah. No, Shif, I mean... And another guy, though. But yeah, I went Kutrov, one, Goudreau, to Trochek, three, Shifley, four.

So if we, wait, if we did this before this season that it just happened, would you have, would you have had Goodro ahead of Kutrov? I don't... Because Goodro was coming off of an amazing season, and he definitely took a downturn this year. of it was kind of just line-made related and had a weird season and it was banged up a bit and kutrault was obviously you could make the case like the most valuable player in the league other than mac david i guess although i mean for those who ever listened to the hockey grass podcast uh rest in peace i mean there was times where riz and i were talking about kuturov might be

uh the better player over stamcoast at times back back in the way they so i mean i have been big on kutraov for quite some while he definitely took it to like in next level. Yeah. It was past year, though. And then the highest defenseman that I've drafted is Oscar Clefbaum. See, I have Dougie Hamilton fifth and Oscar Clefbaum sixth. Yeah.

I might be a little bit lower on Hamilton just because of the fact that his defensive impact has not been the highest. Right. And as you mentioned earlier with, in part one with Ryan O'Reilly, like, Clefbaum never takes penalties, which is probably even more impressive for a defenseman. Yeah. Um, yeah. I think that's fair. It's interesting that... I actually have a goalie in here for the first time.

Although I'm kind of screwing up my goal now. John Gibson? But I do have John Gibson in my top 14. Ahead of who? Ahead of a couple players. Where are in your top 14? I have them at 13. Okay, I'm going to list off players that I think should be ahead of John Gibson.

Are you ready for this? Okay. Andre Platt. Yes, he's a head of mine. Obviously, many Trojerk, as you just mentioned, Mika Zabinajad? Yes. Ryan Agent Hopkins? Yes.

Sean Couturee? Yes. I have Cotirier actually eight. But that, we just listed like 11 players. To go along with the top tier. I went Kutrov, Gidreau, Trochev, Shifley, Kepfli, Kepam, Sade, Poulat, Keturier, Zibzgenad. Broden, R&A. H. Hamilton, Gibson.

I'm not as... Wait, do you have Jonas Brodine ahead of Dougie Hamilton? Oops, I got those two backwards. Swap. What about Duncan Seamins? I do not have him there. Probably should have been on my list of top names from this chat. Swap 10 and 12 there for me.

Um... I shouldn't read out loud as I'm reading ahead at the same time. Yeah. A near miss Adam Larson. I had Larsen, well, so I have, I had Adam Larson versus Josh Manson as an internal debate for 14th on my list. Yeah, they're both very near misses for me. It's tough because obviously, like, you know, especially, I mean.

Manson's one of those difficult ones. It's a very recent development. Like, if he had like two or three more years based on how he did the past year or two, like, I'd feel much more confident about it. Obviously, it's kind of tough. And the tricky thing with Manson is he spent so much of his time playing with Hampus Linholm, and we're going to talk about Hanpas Linholm at length in a second here. But it's a pretty good spot for him to be in as well. So it's kind of thought to separate that.

I had John Gibson as an honorable mention. I mean, honorably mention versus 13th. It's not a huge difference when we're dealing with top 14 lists. But I mean, there's good players here, right? We haven't even mentioned, like, Rickard Raquel. Jonathan Nybredo. yeah Andrew Shaw

yeah but then well I mean you get into like Victor Rask Boone Jenner like very quality players

who could take another step or two in their development in the years to come as well so we might have to revisit this Nathan below Nathan Boyer was not on my

radar here although I do like him more than the Montreal Canadians apparently seem to but yeah this was a what about the second most

famous and second best. Alexiag? How did you know where it's going? Yeah, I knew it. I just wanted to use that joke. It was a good one. Yeah, Ryan Murphy also went 12th.

You know, I don't think Carolina Hurricanes, fans, or people running the team are going to be, you know, lamenting, spending such a high pick on a defense but didn't wind up turning out because we're going to get into some other guys they have that are pretty good at that position

they got later. Yeah, they're set for defense for quite some while. Yeah, but I kind of forgotten about the, the Ryan Murphy hype and the Ryan Murphy era. I was never in on the hype. I argued against him for being on Team Canada. He'd pretty like productive, offensive seasons. Yes.

But he basically played as a Ford. Yeah, that's an interesting draft. It's pretty, you know, we at the up top, we have the Kucherov and Goodrow and you could, I guess, lump up maybe in Shifley into that as well. but then it's not necessarily like huge brand name stars, but they're just like a long list of really, really good players. This is like this is a, this is like the all underrated draft, I feel like.

I feel like a lot of these guys aren't necessarily household names, but are really, really competent players. I think Kutrov is going to become a household name. I think that's fair. I mean, man, I wonder if, do you think, like public perception? has, like, caught up the year he had. I feel like it kind of...

I think it too... It started to, but it probably didn't fully. No. He was... We're 90% of the way there. We're insanely good. We're 90% of the way there. Yeah.

Okay, let's move on to 2012. This is... We kind of talked about this draft off the air. I've really been... I mean, the reason why I wanted to do this project was to talk about the 2012 draft. So... Okay.

You know, the first, like, 80 or 90 minutes of talking we've had here was just all a prelude to this discussion. I mean, I mean, we kind of mentioned this with another draft, or we mentioned already that this draft is kind of interesting because they went big on defensemen in this draft. And they were right that this was a big defenseman draft. But other than, I don't know, two of them, three of them, they got the wrong guys. They really did.

Speaking of getting the wrong guys, Eric Carlson won in the fourth round of this draft. just not not not not not not the ericurelson no not the i feel like i feel like this er carlson needs to like change that k and his first name to like a c or something just out of respect like you know how we have what we we talked about michael jordan yeah he doesn't have the e and michael i feel like haricorlson needs needs to do something here he needs to stop riding the coattails of uh auto aircalls so would he get best name uh you know what he was in consideration There are some good names on this And I'm glad you brought it out

There's Christian Juice Which is a good one There's Victor Louvre There's Come on, Andrea Sautan, I see you It's a good one Yeah We have Cristobal

Boo In quotes Nieves And we have Gianluca Couruto Which I like to say Crocouruto And Merrick Langehammer

I gotta give it to Christian Jews Who might actually play a role on This year's Washington Capitals Maybe a bigger role than the Capitals would like But with all the names that have departed on the blue line He might be relied upon quite a bit Let's get into the ranking of this draft I'm going to go ahead and assume that you do not have

Nail Yakopov and Ryan Murray as one too No actually I do No I don't You've done this exercise horribly incorrect. I have hampas Linholm first overall. Wow. Gutsy.

Gutsy. If you like that, wait till you hear my second overall. Is it Perreico? Colton Pereko. Learn the name. Learn the damn man's name and see it properly. Perry, I pronounce everything phonetically. Colton Pareko.

Yeah, Linholm and Pariko won two. And then I have Philip Forsberg third. Wow. we're in disagreement. Lay it on me. What do you have? I have Gailchangakai. No, I have a faller.

First overall. Foller? No, no, one of the biggest fallers in the track. Who the hell is Foller? I'm a Cam Fowler? One of the biggest fallers of the draft that ended up getting traded for peanuts. Philo Foresberg. Yeah?

Yeah, well, I'm third. I mean, it's not outrageous. And then I go Linn home. And then I go Truva. I was like, are you just so, I was just so. Rating my order. Then I have Truba. I have Truba fourth and then Galchernic. Prago. Then Slavin.

Yeah, I have Slavin 6th. And then I have Galchaniuk. Okay. And then... I think I go a little bit weird. I think I go a little bit weird and I don't think I'm going to agree with too many people here. There's a lot of lease fans right now. They're like, how have they not said Morgan Riley's name yet?

Morgan Riley's 12th for me. I have Morgan Riley 9th. Again, I'm just not... I don't know. This draft, like, the names we've mentioned so far, I love. I think this draft really falls off. But some of that has to do with the fact that we are talking about recent.

So, like, I have a handful of guys that I've highlighted that either have, like, pretty much none or very little NHL experience that I think could become very good NHLers. Let's hear. What do you got after, Galcheneuk? Because that's when we kind of depart. Okay, so this is my order. I have Linholm, Pariko, Forsberg.

Then Truba, Gelchenyak, Slavin. Mm-hmm. Then I have, like, a tier of defensemen coming up here with, like, Gostas, Bear, Shea, Severson, and Riley. Okay. And then I get into, like, Tomaz-Hurtle, Tanner, Pearson, Radic Faxa, like, pick your poison, I don't know. I don't know. What about Terravain? Terravinen.

Terrivinen, honestly, if we done this, like, a year or two ago, I was all in on him. I love them as a player and I thought You know, I still believe that Like teams should utilize their cap space And financial flexibility The way the Hurricanes did In taking on Brian Bickle's contract To get themselves a player like Teotovina

Rather than just throwing away money on The Sam Gagnets of the world for no reason Like actually use that productively But I've been I have to admit I've been a bit underwhelmed I was to be honest I was expecting more at this point of his career I think his numbers were actually

actually pretty exceptional last season. Another guy that I think, who's kind of interesting in hindsight, because I remember a linemate of Mark Schifley, because Mark Schifley was drafted the year before. Yep. And his linemates were one player who is, or two players who are a year older than him. One of them who was already drafted by the land of thrashers,

so he's a wind of paycheck guy as well, who now plays over in the KHL. But the third guy was Tanner Pearson. And I said, you know, Tanner Pearson's a good player, but I wouldn't draft him in the first round. But now I would. But I think that's okay because I agree with you. And I generally thought he was sort of an underwhelming talent,

even when he, I feel like when he came out of the gate with the Kings, he scored a lot of goals, but a lot of it seemed to be a bit, ironically enough, a shooting percentage, Mirage, considering the team he was playing for. But I think Tanner Pearson just got better at hockey. Yeah. And it's okay for us to recalibate our expectations if there's like an actual change in underlying performance, right? And sometimes that happens.

Sometimes it doesn't. But I think Tanner Pearson just got better. And I'm much more willing to believe that he's a legitimate like top six goal score now than I might have in the past. Also a guy that I had as a near miss, the best defenseman on the Buffalo. of Savers. Jake McCabe. This was another one of those drafts where yeah, we mentioned

earlier, there's a lot of good defensemen. A lot of them went in the wrong order. I mean, man. What about Brady? Brady? Brady. I like Brady. I listed him on that tier with like the Gostas Bear and Riley,

sort of like the more offensive defenseman. Yeah. But man, like Cody Cici, Slater Cuckoo, Derek Pooleyon. I mean, I guess Matthew Dumbo's been better and we buy into it more. But like, even like, holy Mata. I mean, yikes.

Yeah. What? Okay. What happened to Mata? Yeah. The same rookie season was actually. Re-calibrating expectations. Like, I still see people and a lot of them are, I guess.

I actually know, Penguins fans were pretty critical during the playoff run. But I think people still, like, sometimes hear that name and might just like attach that what we thought about him a few years ago to what he is now. but man I just don't he's he I think it's like he's had injuries another guy like health concerns that we kind of mentioned earlier um Ryan Murray Murray definitely not or wait no he's the next draft no Ryan Murray he won second overall in this draft he went second overall in this draft he uh he was better than he's been lately like I never I never would have put him where he went even during those years that he was better.

But he's just like only mad it, it kind of fell. Yeah. As I play with my beard. Sorry. Yeah. Here's a question for you. Okay. Shoot.

I'll try to answer. Do you think there's a chance that this is the year where Hampas Linholm gets an horse trophy love? Or do you think it's one of those cases where just especially because of the way he's used and maybe just what his game lends to? like he just won't put up the counting stats to actually get that type of national love. I don't think that he was ever, I don't know, I wouldn't have put him on my ballot for the first three last year. I would put him just outside. So will he be beyond the third? If he does, you can get even better.

You know what? It's a tough call. And I mean, the same with, I'm going to say, like, the exact same argument with Truba. like both of them I think are not quite at that and here I am going against war because according to war Jacob Truba is up there with um with some of the top guys like even above Hamfus uh but I don't think they're quite there yet whether they will be next year or whether you're talking about the year after that that's the question man I love me some hampas linthole so good at hockey um yeah I think uh Yeah, as we mentioned, a lot of good defensemen in this draft.

It's out of my top of 14, like when eight or nine are a defenseman. The forward, the forward talent other than Forsberg, Gailchang, like, who's your next forward? I just deleted. Hold on one second. Like, there's, it goes for, it goes Forsberg, Galchaniuk. And then it and then Pearson, I guess. And then it just goes like a, like Pearson, hurdle. Yeah, it just becomes a.

a slew of people who I'm not really certain of. Terriding. Terrivin. Even Faxa, who was a guy, faxa, a guy that was very high on that draft. And then I thought he was proving me wrong.

And then all of a sudden he seems to be proving me right again. Oh, I love Radic Faxe. I'm all in on the, on the Radic Faxe experience. Yeah. And then I, so I have a list of honorable mentions here.

And this is, now we're really starting to get into like the unproven guys. But I mean, you have this list of, you know, Connor Brown, Charles Hudon, Brennan Leipzig,

Pontus Aberg, and then you get into the defensemen like Matt Benning, S. Lundell, Michael Matheson, Ben Hudden, Connor Carrick. You have all these guys

who like their NHL sample is so limited then it's unfair to like make any site, any type of conclusions on what they're going to be, but to varying degrees they've shown whether in small samples

in that NHL level or in the HL. And also at their levels because I mean, two of those guys that you mentioned. Charles Sudan, the H.L. Charles, Sudan and Brennan Leipzig, both elite war players who are young.

I mean, if you're an elite war player in the HL while being young, that's a good sign of the future. And then you see like up onto Saburg who, you know, maybe if he was in a different organization, we might not have like that type of bias, but like you see the success, someone like a Victor Arvinson has all of a sudden,

and then you see it in that brief flurry in the playoffs, like that, just the speed and some of the finishing ability, and you're like, I can envision a scenario where Ponta Zaburag in a few years is highly regarded and very productive, and he has been at the age of level. So,

I think that's good for 2012. I mean, man, the top of the draft is, I mean, I remember the time people were, like, uncertain about it, but really for a lot of those guys, it went about as badly as it probably could have. I mean, we didn't even mention Griffin, Ryan Hart for the overall,

which is just, Nope. Las Vegas's own Griffin Reinhardt Yeah tough All right 2013 So this is the draft

This is the draft Up top I remember at the time It was like considered to be one of the One of the best ever And you know what It was A solid draft

In terms of depth For some team Like just speaking of For example The Winnipeg Jets They look like They're going to have an NFL player With

Josh Josh Morris Nick Patan, Andrew Cobb, Tucker Pullman. So, like, he's definitely like a... You just made up to Alaska. Tucker Pullman? Yeah, don't try to squeeze in. It'll be an enchilor next year.

Next season. Speaking of... One of the best names for the trap. Well, I was going to say, this is a, you know, if the talent has maybe disappointed, the names have delivered. I'm going to lay some on you here. Miles Liberati, great name. Joel Vermin

Wilhelm Westland Fabrice Herzog Krister's Goodlevskis Christopher Clapperton pretty good hockey team Maybe my personal favorite Clapperton is a prime

Yeah Especially because you know the clap Yeah And and not the clap Just the clapp Miles Wood Miles and miles of it I'm going to leave

I'm going to leave Miles Wood there. He actually looks like he could be one of the, one of the Franco brothers. A lot of speed, very, very good player. So where are you going to the top of the draft? You know what? I really fought for the first overall for this one. Well, remember at the time everyone was, like,

I feel like there was like very angry arguments and discussions going on about, like, Seth Jones versus. Yeah. McKinnon, where's Drew and, I mean. And you know what? Which way do you slide in for a few years? I might have a guy higher than you, although I don't have him first overall, but I actually went with the Florida Panthers first overall.

So you have Sasha Barker first? Yep. I mean, he definitely has like the most complete game of these guys, I feel like. I mean, we're definitely starting to dip into projection zones now. Yeah. Like how well McKinnon kind of bounced back? if, you know, like a lot of the discussion we've had with a lot of the Colorado players, they have a lot of good young talent that, you know, has kind of underperformed recently.

And you wonder how much of that is nature versus nurture, how much of it will be repairable. But, yeah, I put McKinnon second. I did not put. I put McKinnon first, just, I guess just bra upside. I don't know, personal preference. I mean, listen, he's... he's still 21 years old, so I don't want to,

you know, close the book on him or, like, write him off or, or just say this is the player he's going to be. But, like, you'd say that it's, it's fair to suggest that, like, as hockey fans,

we should be disappointed with what we've seen from Nathan McKinnon so far, right? Am I disappointed? I mean, if I'm looking at purely... Like, Ross girls, he's, like, he's right up there with, And I mean, look how well he's played in international tournaments when he's been a...

Surrounded by good players. But, I mean, everyone looks good with good players. But he definitely, like, seems to fit in with them. But then again, I've international tournaments, but also been impressed with Barkov and how he's performed. But, okay, it's not ideal that Nathan McKinnon's most productive season came as, like, an 18-year-old rookie. No.

Like, it's fair for us to hope that he's going to improve. I mean, look at the guy who was drafted first overall on this draft pick. That's Nathan McKinnon. Excuse my honor. The next draft is what I meant to say. Yeah, but I mean, look at, like,

is there, and when you look at McKinnon's profile, like we talked about this with Jacob Silverberg. Mm-hmm. Like, look at McKinnon's, I think people aren't talking about this. Shooting percentages by year.

I want to listen for you. 10 in his rookie season, 7.2, 8.6, and 6.4 last year. But what's his true talent? Is this true talent closer to 10 or is this true talent? Well, there's no way his true talent is 6%. No. He's not freaking Jared Bull.

I don't even know. Jared Bull probably has a higher shooting percentage. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. I don't remember. Is it asking for something around 10% outrageous? No, but now there's 8%, which is still significantly different than 10%. Yeah, but even 8% at this point

would at least be getting over the 20 goal mark. Mm-hmm. I mean, I do wonder, like... I don't know. Maybe I'm just too big into Barkoff. No, well, we're having a discussion about Nathan McKinan right now. Like, it's... I did have him second overall, so it's not like I'm totally against McKinin.

Who I have third might surprise. Is that Jones? Nope. I don't know who it isn't. keep guessing. I mean, there's no other name that would possibly be the right answer there. So I don't know. Maybe it's Alex Winterberg.

He had an awesome season. You did. You also had an awesome previous season that was, you know, not really. Right. It was at a different level of awesome. Yeah. He's a, I mean, he's looking like he's going to be like an elite playmaker for sure. I mean, him on the power play is just magnificent. Yeah, no, he was definitely, you know, people were looking for reasons for why that Columbus power play was so good at the start of the year.

And he was a massive driving force for that. So if you have him third, who do you have fourth? Jones. Yeah. Well, I have Jones third. So where are you at on Jonathan Druin? I'm not as high on Jonathan Druin as some people, I guess. Yeah.

I mean, let me guess. the actual cumulative package at 515 hasn't actually matched up with like if you just see highlight reels of him. Yeah. He's definitely a player who's, and I mean it's been more than one season and it's been on good teams. And yes, sometimes, you know, there's a little bit of a usage adjustment that needs to be done. But I see a lot of flashes, but I haven't seen consistency yet to put him in the same conversation with the guys that we've previously discussed.

And while I think that he has the definite chance of, you know, being that guy that, you know, that everyone viewed him to be in his draft year. Well, I mean, we mentioned... As time goes by, the door becomes smaller and smaller. The door is still open for him. For sure. And, you know, you mentioned him being on a good team

and this being a couple years now. Like, we do have to address the fact that the lightning we're really screwing around with his development. To a degree, yeah. To a full degree. But he still played with some great players. Not as much as you'd think he should have if... I mean, for example, this war has never been that impressive

and war just for your line mates. No, I agree. I definitely think that... And if I was going purely by war, he'd be much slower. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's fair that you need to considering the age and the sample, you do need to account for

pure raw talent and put the possibility that he would improve as a player. Like, right? Like, Tanner Pearson, like, if Jonathan Druend's underlying performance improves in his two-way play and five-on-five, like he has the talent to make us look silly if we're bumping him way down this list

just because of how he's performed so far. So, okay, let's go through some of these other names. where are you where are you at uh so let's see i said barkov mckinan winberg jones drann then i go lindholm and monahan yeah i think that's fair i mean which is very interesting because like these are all for early first guy i i jumped up winberg no this draft got the order of the top pretty pretty right they're a lot better yeah especially like when we're dealing like 2011 where the first three guys are not even the first round 2006, Riku Heleneas going to 11th overall.

Yeah. No, it's definitely, it's becoming more refined. And part of that might be that they're becoming more refined, but part of it might also be the fact that earlier picks are going to get more NHL time. So, you know, those guys that are going to be those surprise guys might not have gotten that chance yet. Yeah, three years from now, this list could look different for sure. Are you worried about Like

Obviously Monaghan has been very productive so far Mm-hmm Decent War player How much of that do you think is it actual Him as a true talent difference maker And how much of it is The fact that he gets to play on a pretty good spot I mean

Because we've never really seen him Play away from Johnny Goodro for a sustained period of time And for the most part war is pretty good at adjusting for usage. However, when you have these extremes where guys have almost never been separate, you definitely have, and when, especially when the other guy might be an elite talent, you have a bit of a draining problem where the next best guy might pull out of that value. Right.

But one of the things that I have to point out is, you know, he's still provided decent results. He still, well, I mean, last year he was an over two-win player, and that's significant. You know, maybe two or three goals of that value's been drained from Godreau, but that still would put him in the top 10 for that draft. Yeah. And I mean, if you look at him, like, it's four years now where he's been An above average consistent finisher as a shooter, right? And it's like, it's probably something to that at this point. Yeah, before they gave him that massive contract, I made this point before,

but I would have loved to see if he could actually carry his own line with two subpar players. And I guess at some point in time, the flames might experiment with that, but we just haven't really seen it yet. but I guess don't fix what's not broken and him and Goudreau are pretty clearly very productive together, so. Yeah. If the top of this draft was done correctly,

then the back half of this lottery is kind of a bit all over the place. I mean, it's a little bit messy. Obviously, whenever you have Sam Moran going 11th and he's not even like, he's not even like a top 11 Philadelphia Flyers defense prospect at this point. He's a, he's a.

He's a blow of replacement war player in the HL. Well, he just, he's like a player from a different era. It's like if you find like, if you find like dinosaur fossils. Yeah. It just seems out of place in today's world. Corey Schneider put it well, and he's like, there was a time where, you know, the lowest hanging fruit, the guys that we had to get rid of were these Coke machines that just stood in front of the net. And that's all they could do was clear the net.

now those guys have kind of disappeared but there's a new version of those guys which is basically a coke machine who can actually skate and I kind of find, I mean, Samo Moran had some decent shot volume numbers in both junior

and okay in the HL but I just don't see it there as overall play. I mean his defensive game is okay at the HL and I mean at 21 that means that maybe maybe he can become that

a depth guy, you know, third pairing defenseman. If he wasn't in a team that was just stacked with defensive prospects as the Florida Panthers, the Philadelphia Flyers are,

but I, that's a maybe. That's a, that's almost a best case scenario now. Yeah. Looking at some of these other names, like, you know,

we mentioned about how, like, nature versus nurture and sort of the, your landing spot as a prospect and maybe how that will affect how long it takes you to become the player you're actually going to be or getting opportunities early in your career like if we're doing this a couple years from now um and we redo this exercise i feel like uh andre burkowski might be very very high on this list i had him 11th yeah but i like i think

he has a shot to like jump up five spots like i don't know i don't know i don't want to be a hot take artist and I don't know if this is an outlandish opinion but I would believe if you told me that years from now we're going to look back and say andre brookovsky is a better player than sean monaher or Elias lynn home or jonathan drew in right so like you have him 11th which is high i have him 13th but i think he could be like top five that was like i said you could definitely jump up easily five spots but he plays for the capitals and it took him a while and he still hasn't gotten that opportunity. If you put,

if you let, if you let, if you let, Andrew Brokowski play with Nicholas Baxter full time, the way Sean Wanan plays with Johnny Goodrow,

I think is, I think Burakowski is also a player who I think the Washington Capitals might regret giving a bridge contract. I think you can remove the word might out of that. Uh,

two, two interesting players that I have somewhere in there, like in the mix, it's Bo Horvatt and Max Domi. Guys that I thought of higher in the, the draft than I do now, but still think of as quality NHL players. Yeah, I actually thought that, like, I remember at the time, I was like, Bo Horvett at 9, what the

hell? Because he sort of profiled as like a defensive center. Yeah. And then he got way better at skating. But now the Canucks are in such a mess. And, you know, they were, like, asking him to do all this heavy lifting on a penalty killing stuff. And I just don't think he was ready for it yet.

And maybe he never will. But, like, if anything, my opinion, like, I, I feel much better about the Bull Horvette pick now than I did at the time. But obviously the circumstances are kind of rough. It's funny because his statistical profile is the exact opposite of what most people's draft profile was. His even strength, defensive impact relative to usage, is terrible. He's like an offensive highlight machine. He like has these sequences where he just dangles the entire other demons scores of cool and you're like, what?

His offense is quality. Another guy that happened in the mix and people are going to be like, everybody's played with great players and you're getting biased with the N. H.L selection, Jake Gunsel, who had the highest, the highest, not second, not third, not fourth, not fifth, the highest HAL war last year. So it's not that he just went into a good position and, you know, he played with elite players because there's no, he's not playing with Sidney Crosby in the HL. What's, what's the HL's version of Sydney Crosby? D.J. Brennan? Maybe, maybe.

He's not playing with T.J. Brennan's playing for Lee Valley, sir. Yeah. I mean, we should say, like, listen, 65 NHL games so far. So I obviously would like to see more. But he does have that track record. I mean, even if you go back to college hockey, he was an awesome offensive contributor as well. And another guy with small, small NHL, actually two guys that I have in the mix, as honorable mentions, Sven Adjigito. Man, you are really bad at names.

Yeah, I'm terrible. That's what happens when you're just watching games and you're just reading spreadsheets. Sven Andraggetto. I watch games. I watch games on mute because they track things. Yeah, Sven Androgato. And Oliver Bjorksand. Two guys also who, you know, played well in the NHL but need a larger sample size,

although their track record in lower levels has been great. Seems surprised you listed Sven Androgato there because he's a guy that the Canadians gave up on willingly. I mean, where did they trade him for, like, Andreas Martinson or something in the deadline? And I think that's totally fine. But the reason why I bring it up is because I thought you were going to mention a different guy related to the HABs, and that's Aritori Lekanen. Yes, he was also.

I guess you don't have, like, the HL data for, but he looks like a, you know, shot generating goal scoring machine, and we'll see. With more opportunity, whether that can translate. I mean, there's obviously a lot of guys. like Anthony Manta we haven't mentioned yet Yeah he's great junior Although a little bit older player Yeah

HL Weird because like in my personal opinion I haven't had much concerns Of his HL games Although my sample size of watching him The HL is smaller But I've heard negative things Being quoted of him

In his HL play Right it's like defensive stuff right Yeah I think one of those things though Is the fact that he's a big tall guy Who skates weird so effort the Ryan Johansson's yeah the the effort thing always comes up with players like that um then Carolina's got a another underrated I was about to say another underrated defenseman yeah once again Carolina and their defenseman I mean I think I think mantha what he had 17 goals

and 36 points in 60 NHL games last year like that's I think I'm not really worried like obviously he was like getting bench and stuff and there's some weird stuff going on there but I think the talent is there um here's a guy Sample is very small but if you're talking about like just sealing how come none of us have mentioned

Rasmus for Stillainen Honestly I can't have this debate We've had it in the past It's a little sleeve of B I am buying every single chair of Pavobuchnev's stock and just hoping

that Alainvignon is not the coach for the rest of his career. Just like in terms of pure ability, I think he's really capable of everything with the puck. It's just a matter of playing for a coach that's going to live with any possible defensive miscues or misd assignments that he might have on occasion. So hopefully that happens.

I mean, are there any other guys? Like, we haven't mentioned Shay Theater. What do you think about Shay Theater? I know he's a guy really good A HL numbers, right? He's an interesting guy. He's got good ACHL numbers. His NHL has been very underwhelming,

but I mean, look at the team. He's going to get a lot of opportunity now. Yeah. So he's a guy that's a question mark for me. At the draft, I had him as my third favorite defenseman. Or no, I think of fourth. I think I had Ryan Pulock,

who also has great HL numbers just beforehand. Speaking of great HL. numbers Josh Hoseng, who will be talking about maybe, maybe not in the next draft, right? In the next draft? Yeah.

98% carry percentage for carry hands. Yeah, he's a good player. He don't dump the puck at all. He's the best 66 I watched in a long time.

Oh, another name from from, before we get away from 2013, Will Butcher, who's going to get a lot of buzz, obviously now as a college free agent. Maybe he might be signed by the time you publish this.

It's true. It's true. You might, I guess wait and see on him. But anyways, let's move on to 2014. 2014. A very interesting draft.

I feel like we've said that about every single lot of. Of course it's going to be interesting. There's a lot of, like, new players to discuss. But, acting like it's a unique trade every time.

Ooh, is an interesting job. Don't draft Jake Fertanin. Draft Nikolai Eilers or William Neelander. Reese Jessop, you turned out to be right on that. Oh my goodness. Yeah, the Jake Fertanan, that's a tough one. Although I still think Jake Furtan has a good chance of being a decent depth in each other. Yes. Maybe potentially even a middle six guy.

The jokes will always be there about the guys that went. Yeah. Which is funny because the pick before him, isn't looking that much better. No. But again, both those guys have been actually, I mean, Jake Fretanin and Michael Delacol haven't been really lighting it up in the HL,

but their overall numbers in the HL have been quality. Right. I mean, but it might just be living in Vancouver, so you obviously, like, you hear more of it locally, but I feel like generally in the hockey community, like, Jake Fertan is the punchline of a lot of Willie Neilander, Niklai Uler's jokes, whereas I feel like Michael Dalko kind of conveniently sometimes gets left out of that.

Well, I think part of the fact is that you're friends with me and Reese Gs just off. No, I feel like general. General hockey fans make that point a lot too. But, um, okay, so let's go through the order of the top, the top, like, five, let's say. What do you, what do you have? Because I think it's going to look a lot different than what it actually was. It is, um, I don't have one the same. I don't have two the same.

Leon Dreis title is the only guy from the top five that I have in the top five. I also agree. I have Leon Drysidl number one, which is funny because I was high on Leon Drysidl. I remember being higher on him than Reese Jessup was, yet I didn't think that he would be what he's become. No. He did not skate very well at all,

but he definitely was able to improve that by a greater, I expected improvement, but not to the degree. I mean, it was always interesting watching him because of the fact that he played on a team that the second highest goal score like he's a playmaker and he was the highest goal score in his team

and the second highest goal score in his team was a defenseman so he's a playmaker who went through junior without an actual goal score to set up which I think maybe made people not expect

as much from him which is kind of surprising to say about the guy he went through overall but I think that probably maybe limited what people expected of him well we should say

he's been pretty much all of his NHL time playing with either Taylor Hall or Connor McDavid. Yes. Which. And that's, and I spoke of the leaking impact because Leon Drey said that I'm pretty sure was in the top four in war last year. Right. Or something like that.

And I don't think that he's actually the top four player in the NHL. I think he's stolen some of Connor McDavid's value because, I mean, that's just the way models work. Models aren't really expecting to look at the elites, the tail ends because, one, because that's just the way that models are made. They're made to expect some regression to the mean. The model can't believe that Connor McDavid exists. There's no way a person's this good at hockey.

Yeah, there's that. But also, like, it intentionally moves things towards the mean because of the fact more often than not extreme values are going to be people who are lucky, not people who are talented. And then on top of it, just because of the fact that everybody knows the best of the best and the worst of the worst, It's the middle that are the guys that you want to really suss out. And that's what models are useful for.

But yeah, Leon Dressadl have number one. Who do you have number two? I have Nick Heelers. I do not, as a Winnipeg Jet fan. I feel like I've been higher on all the Jets than you have so far. Maybe. Other than Truba. Other than Truba, yeah.

But I was higher on Shafley than you were. I was also higher on. I'm higher on Jeremy Moran than you were. Yeah, those are all players. Former thrashers great. Sweet. So you do you get Willie Eiland a second? Sorry.

Do you have Willie Nealander second? I have a guy that might be getting traded. Second. Who? Oh, David Pasternak. Yep. Oh, there we go. Yeah.

That's a good one. Yeah, I had, uh... Yeah, I have Pasternak. I'm fourth. But... I do have Eilers third, so it's not like you and I are a huge disagreement. Right. Yeah. You know, Euler's is...

Eler is great. I mean, I don't, I don't know even know where to take this. So you have passed your next second. You're not worried at all about, just the fact that he plays as Berzran and Mershan.

Yeah, this possibility. Yeah. Even then, that still puts him pretty high. I mean, Nikolai Eler's, um,

is, I think he has a little bit of the same thing as the Duran does. Um, in terms of his play style and the watching value. Right. has gone past what his actual performance is. I mean,

and Nikola Euler's has been, he's a legitimate top six performer. However, most of it has been from penalty drawing, not penalty, like not resisting penalties, but penalty drawing.

And I'm just from watching him, I mean, he does have a bit of a reputation as a diver. And I wonder how long that will, he'll be able to continue getting that value. I think, I think some of it is legit, though.

I mean, you watch, like, just in terms of how elusive he is and how, like, quick he is from stopping and starting, right? Like, there's two types of speeds. There's, like, go, go, go. And then there's, like, the straight line, like, kind of, like, Andreas Athanasi or Michael Grabner just, like, sprint. And then there's, like, the Connor McDavid, Nicola Eiler is, like, just zinging and zagging in the offensive zone. As, as Corey Promen, just before the draft said, Nicolai Eilers is basically, and they put a giff of the roadrunner. Yeah, he's a hell of a player. Okay, so where are we going after this then?

Then I go Nylander. Yep. And then I go all the way to the fourth round, Victor. Victor Arbiton. Yeah, it's amazing seeing his name amongst all these other guys just based on age. But it's crazy that he was passed up in the drafts a few times. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, the year he just put together, and obviously it's not like a,

came out of nowhere because he was like he was one of my personal and a lot of other personal favorite breakouts because of what he'd done in his limited usage and opportunity in the past and finally they give him the opportunity playing with great players and he makes most of it and like i can definitely see because of the fact that he is older and when we're dealing with projections right that a lot of the guys who are coming out just after have definitely the chance to catch up yeah and pass him um i mean if i was going just from pure performance last season uh Victor would probably be second or third overall. So I already have dropped him some spots just because of that.

But whether or not I dropped him enough is the question. That's fair. So what do you have after that then? Next one, I became really, really all over the place here. Well, it really gets into a bit of a projection game, right? Yeah. I mean, there's Aaron Eckblad, who's always been a guy who I've been up and down and up and down with.

In his actual draft, Reese and I were both like, if Ekblad becomes what Ekblad is supposed to become, he'll be the best person in the draft. But he has not actually become that yet. He's still been a quality player. I still put him as the best defenseman from the draft. But there's some questions around him.

There's Sam Reinhart. He was drafted second overall, who has played on a interesting team. That's one way to describe the Buffalo. samers. Yeah. Both the savers and the Colorado avalanche, like whenever you have players on them, it makes it a little bit more difficult to project just the fact that it's been a bit

of a tire-fired in those organizations. Although I think both of them are getting better, whether or not they'll get out of the holes, the real question. Dylan Larkin, who's had an exceptional rookie season, but kind of dropped a bit last year. I mean, there's Nick Ritchie, who I think. thought was overvalued, but now also then maybe I undervalued him. Yeah, because he profiled as, you know, there was a lot of reason for the pushback because he's like just his big dude from Ontario so you can see why people might overvalue a player

who profiles like that. But he's actually exceeded my expectations so far in terms of his actual on-ice contributions. So I don't know. Maybe if he's playing with Getslaf moving forward, and I'm sure he'll be very productive. And I love me some Robbie Fabry. Robbie Fabri is an awesome player I hope he recovers from the injury you just had And speaking of that

I think my personal favorite Of the names we haven't mentioned yet Kevin Fiala He is a good one Speed to Burn And Casperi Capon as well Along a similar vein Yeah I have three guys who

Here who are all either in the top 14 Or just outside Who all Haven't had much of the NHL sample but Travis Sinam, Sanam, Sam, Kisperi Kappan, and Josh Jose, all three of them have been exceptional performers in

HL, and I don't mean just for their age group, period. Surprise you didn't include Brandon Montour on that group. I don't have numbers on him in terms of... Because HL shot generation, I believe, was obscene for a defenseman.

Most of my HL numbers are coming from so as I spoke, my company has an HL war but my actual numbers are coming from our development of the war because of the fact that the HL is different than the HL, so we have to make some you know, shock quality adjustments are different player usage adjustments are different

so it's basically more of a beta version than the actual full war version so there's a lot of players that I'm missing. Let's highlight a few players Because at this point of the list, we're sort of more looking ahead to guys who we believe could join this group of guys. I mean, like, who are some names that stick out to you as over the next couple of seasons we could look back and be like those guys wound up being very valuable contributors? Brain and point. Yep.

Well, he's actually had some NHL to realize. I mean, I was thinking like even like a yak or a guy. I know. Yeah. I mean, the capitals could use that type of depth. I like Vlad Kamen of a lot. And I'm sensing a trend here. I think these natural predators are going to be pretty good. A lot of guys on this list from the natural predators. Yeah, there's a few others. I mean, this is a pretty good draft. I remember the time people thought of it very highly. And obviously, there were a few misses, as we alluded to early on. But I think there's going to be like, a long,

a laundry list of guys who wind up being very good NHLers from here. A random factoid I just want to bring up that's completely... That's literally what this podcast is.

Oh, no, that's next draft. That's next draft, not this one. That's a tease right there. I just got a little switch up. One final guy,

I really like, Andre Katcha. Had good AHL numbers. Always impressed me while playing for the ducks last year, so we'll see if you can, if you can take that next step. Let's get to that draft now.

Okay. 2015. This is the, we've reached... The final countdown. Final stage, yes. Noah Anandefin, number one. Just kidding.

Yikes. Connor McDavid. No questions asked. Jack Eichael. Good, good, good thing. I heard one media guy once say, the things Eichael does and McDavid does are both exceptional, but there are things that Eichael does and McDavid can't do.

I heard a media guy once say that. today he was getting made fun of a lot for a certain hot dog reference and that media member shall go unnamed unnamed um yeah it's it's there's nothing over think here it's macdavit i go one too right yeah so we okay i'm curious looking back in now we've done 2006 to 2015 macdavit is the best player we've talked about so far yes who's number two Oh, shoot. So I'm gonna, here, I'll go back and I'll tell you all the names that are in consideration.

Jonathan Taves, Nicholas Baxter from 2006. Patrick Kane, Jamie Ben, from 2007. And if you're a loose canon like yourself, maybe Ryan McDonough. Eric Carlson, Drew Dowdy, Stevens, Damcos, Tavares, Headman, Teresenko, SIG, and Kuznetsov Hall, Kuturo of Goodro. and then like the Foresburg-Linholm group and then I don't think any of the other guys like I don't think I don't think we're going to include Barkov in this discussion um who do you think second on that it's so weird like comparing like John and Taves to Connor McDavid yeah it is I mean or I guess that is John and Dave's to Jack Eichael I mean Taves headman like that's yeah there is Eric Carlson hmm I would say it's probably a fight between. Sorry, that's my chair. Yeah, that's a...

That's a tough question. Maybe think about it. We'll get back to it. I don't know if I haven't asked for that question. So, I'll ask you a question you can answer more readily now. Who's third from this draft? From this draft? Yeah. Poor Dylan Strom. Like, he hasn't done anything wrong himself yet. He's just been on a slower developmental track and he very well could wind up being an awesome player. He destroyed the OHL. Yeah. But it's like one of those things where it's like... I think he, what, it has 75 points and 35 games in the OHL? Like, that's...

Well, he was obviously... to get for that league. Diculous. I'm very curious to see how he does this year with the Coyotes. I mean, he's got good size. He's a good defensive player, but Mitch, Mitch Marner, Mitch Marner, I had higher in the draft.

Yeah. And I received an email from Mitch Marner's dad when I was hired on him pre-draft. Being like, oh, like he didn't say that as Mitch Marner's dad. He was just like. But his last name was Marner? His last name was Marner,

but I didn't even read that. I just like replied. He was like, I was just wondering if you have some numbers on why you like him more than Strom. And so I sent some numbers. And then I asked, oh, just curious. Like, are you a fan or something like that? I guess you could say that.

And I was like, oh, I have a personal attachment to the situation. Yeah, I probably should have looked at the full name. Probably. So do you have Mitch Martin or third? Yes, I do. All right. Now this is where it gets fun. No questions asked for me.

Provarov, where is Forrenzky? No questions asked. It's been the same since the draft. and then it continues to be the same now. Werensky. You continue to want to be incorrect on the situation. No, Werensky. Put it this way.

When we designed the PCS model, Werensky was the best PCS player in the draft. If you pretended that he was a year older than he was because you had to do that because there was no one like him ever in the NCAA at his age ever. And then he was the best player this year in terms of war for the defenseman of this draft. like no questions asked.

Yeah, I think that's fair. I would love to see and we've talked, we've accounted for like teammates and line-made usage. I would love to see Ivan Proverov play with. Insert, not not named Andrew McDonald.

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Obviously, like, listen, both guys are great and I understand where you're coming from with Wrenski. I think it's one of those like biases. Biasis. I love watching Proverov. He's like,

he's the definition of what I think a great defenseman in 2017 should look and play like. I just love how like everything seems to slow down with him in the ice and he makes everything. Yeah, which isn't even like necessarily a lot, like, I don't know. I'm gonna be curious to see if,

like if you were running the hurricanes, would you, do you think you could still, you can't obviously sell high on him, but do you think he could still recoup anything resembling proper value for no, Hanifin or are you better off just trying to use him yourself? I mean, they have so many people that are set for a long time. Yeah.

I mean, and... I just wonder what his trade value is like. Probably so high. Probably not as high as we think, but probably still higher than what his actual on-ice value is. Right. So you would trade him. And I mean, Noah Hanifan did have a better second half this season than he did the first half. Right.

He's got two... I mean, listen, we're just comparing him unfairly maybe to pro-Robin. Ranski because it was peers, but yeah, I still have Hannafin in the top 14, so. Listen, I'm, I'm here for the Dylan Strom, Noah Hannafin revenge tour. Do you have, where do you have questions? Where do you have, holy shit, Kyle Connor, Matt Roselle. You know what's really, okay, this is, this is really funny. So for all these drafts, like I broke them down by year, and then I listed the actual order

of the top 14. Yeah. And then I did mine, right? For this one, I had to include the 15th pick just to keep the trilogy going. Like, you couldn't not have Zach Sennyson on this list. No. You had to be included. So who do you have in this tier after these guys we just mentioned?

So we basically have the three, four words. And then I think you have... I have Werenzky... And then Provrov. I have Provrov as the next defenseman, but I actually have a Ford in between... Who do you have a Ford between them? My only hot riser

from the draft. And I might be... I might be gunning way too high. It might be a little bit of a biased thing. Kyle Connor? No, a Carolina guy. Sebastian. Oh, yeah, that's fair.

I mean, he had a heckle of a season. Mm-hmm. I think there's a reason to be very excited. But yeah, then Proverall, then Strom, then Connor. Kyle Connor had a significantly separate first half of the season versus second half, just like Hannah Finn. Yeah. I think Kyle Connor was one of the top five or top ten point scores in the back half of the H.L. season. So.

I really, man, that Zaka picket six is looking rough with some of the names I went after. But, yeah. I won my brother. My brother is a huge New Jersey Devils fan. And I'm wearing my brother pre-draft. I'm like, he's like, who should we go for? Who should we avoid? Because you usually are pretty much on the money.

And I was like, avoid Zaka. And then two years I remember, I was like, you're right. Well, yeah, because, I mean, Zaka was sort of considered to be like that prototypical power for it, right? But I think even at the time, they were like, I think he missed a bunch of that season, his draft year. I mean, he's not terrible. I really, I really, you know, at the time of the draft, I was a bit skeptical

on him because of his situation and, you know, with all these guys that have played for Halifax. It's been like questions of like how good are they actually versus the guys are playing with or whatever. Yeah. But I've really grown or Tim O'Mire is growing on me. I don't know if I've grown on him. Someone needs to interview Timo Meyer and ask him how he feels about me now versus in 2015. But I like Timel Meyer a lot. Another guy. Do you like him on myer? Yeah. I have them. Good age all numbers. Yeah. Another interesting guy, Mika Ratman. There's some stat about how he, like, led the avs in Ice Time or something last year, which was, like, remarkable and explains a lot of the avalanche season.

It's, yeah, it's interesting. But the concern for me with Renton is, at the time, I remember, like, his main selling point for being this high was that he was the most NHL-ready guy, right? Mm-hmm. Well, obviously, aside from, I guess, McDavid and Ikel. Yeah. So, I don't know if that was true. I don't know what his upside is as an NHL talent.

His offensive game hasn't been exceptional, but he's definitely already kind of proven himself to be very, very efficient defensively on a team that doesn't really have that. Right. And I could definitely see a Couturier-type development with maybe a little bit less offense, which is saying...

But that caps is upside. Yeah, definitely caps is upside. but it shows that he can be a significantly good player. I still think he can be a second line center who's very quality. Then there's some HL guys who've got like a little shot in the NHL like Anthony. Well, I love this list. It goes from 11 to 15. Lawson Krause, Dennis Guriano, Jacobs Borough, Jake DeBrus, Saxon.

Yeah, none of those guys are even honorable mentions for me. No, it's tough. So now we get into the names with like Matt Barzal, Kyle Connor. Yep. Well, Conner's already. Yep. Travis Keneckney, who looked very good last year. I had Kyle O'Connor seven, so I guess I'm a lot higher on him.

There's another jet guy that I'm higher on. But then again, I also had Kyle Connor six pre-drafts, though. Yeah, that's fair. So Travis Kineckney, I mentioned. I like Anthony Bovier a lot. I'd like for him to actually just get regular usage on the Islanders. Last year while he was just sitting in the press box, for no reason, just infuriated me.

Travis Kineke, it's pretty good. Colin White, Brock Bassett. We just talk about Brock Besser. It's very easy to pile on the Canucks. God knows I do it more than anyone. In my personal opinion, the Canucks last two drafts. It's been good. It had been good.

Although this is not one of the last two drafts, because it's three dress. Right. But I remember at the time, I was like, because I really liked Bovier and Kineckney, and even like Nick Murkley. And there were some guys on the board that were still there. And I was underwhelmed by the Bessor pick,

but he's looking like a heck of a talent, especially as a finisher. So I'm very curious to see what he's going to look like on the Canucks this season. But his stock has risen quite a bit. There's something, like, we haven't mentioned a lot of defensemen. I mean, we did, we had that whole debate with, rentskeepers pro-b-rov but you know like I wonder how much of it is uh just junior

world junior inflation and you obviously got to account for that and be you know tempered expectations but like i feel like Thomas Shabbat star has risen quite a bit since his draft yeah um i'm gonna say i'm gonna say it straight up ryan carlo is extremely overrated and whatever well he's i mean he's overrated, it's, he's a good player to have gotten the second round. I say it's concerning that he's the best thing that Bruins have to show from this draft, considering they had the 13th, 14th, 10, 15th, the overall picks. There's one guy that I've always kind of been high on, even pre-drafts, who hasn't really shown anything quite yet, but I'm still keeping my eyes open on

Nicholas Moloche. Nicholas Melosh, that's a deep dive right there. Yeah. I don't think you'll ever, I don't think you'll hit in the 14, top 14 spot. But then there's Vince Dunn because we're talking defensemen and Noah Juleson. Those are guys who I don't think will ever hit the top 14, but are definitely decent. What about Schillington? But Rasmus Anderson and Oliver Schillington were our guys who I actually,

think have a shot to jump up into the top 14. Whether they do or not is... God knows the flames need the fenceman. It's a completely different situation. But, you know, and I always thought that with those two. I always viewed those two very highly. I always thought that they were both drafted way later than they should have been. Yep.

And so far, I'm looking correct in my assessment of that. However, I honestly viewed Oliver Schillington higher than Rasmus-Ender's. in pre-draft and I'm starting to view it the opposite way. That said, they're both really good players, and I definitely think that they have a good chance of being in the top 30 for this draft and the chance of being in the top 50s, despite both being drafted in the backout of the second round. Well, we'll see if this actually materializes, but I feel like the second round in general has a ton of incredibly fascinating names

that I remember at the time thinking were dropping for reasons unbeknownst to me. I mean, he's been underwhelming since, but I remember being high on Janssen Harkins at the time of the draft. Yeah, Harkins was a guy that I always viewed lesser than his numbers in his draft here. He's got quite the...

I mean, I know the Jets are pretty happy with him, but I don't think he's going to really push that... far past, I think his ceiling's third line center at this point in time. Daniel Sprong is another interesting guy in the second round. Yeah, kind of weird. A different type of interesting.

Paul Bittner, a lot of people thought was going to get overvalued into the first round. Turns out he got overvalued in the second round. But then he got overvalued in the second round. But favored in my tweet when I said you know, the guy was

under a point per game, fight playing on a line with the two highest scoring forwards in the WHL at the time, all over Bjorks ran and Nick Batam. Yeah, that's not good. And he faved it, he faved. Oh, my God. I wonder if he still has it faved. Well, no, that because that tweet doesn't exist anymore.

Oh, yeah, you delete it. That's right. Yeah, I got rid of all my tweets. One of those guys. Honorable mention here, I'm sad that we will not see Carol Caprizo for the next couple years. Just sign an extension with his KHL team. I mean, if you compare his, uh, his numbers to date in that league compares very favorably well to all the guys that have come over to the NHL and exploded and been at the top of these lists for us.

Oh yeah, I was going to say two anecdotes or one anecdote that are two that are related for this 2015 NHL draft is there are two finished defensemen who went in the seventh round. both of them pre-draft were considered to be potential second or third-round draft fix. Both of them slid all the way to the seventh round. And to give you an idea of how far their slide was, it's usually the people who actually attend the draft are guys who are, they know that they're going to get drafted. They're in the first three rounds. The guys that are after the third round, generally speaking, don't go to the draft. Both of these guys were at the draft. One of them made the NHL last year.

and did pretty good job. Not great scoring numbers, but his war was pretty decent, and his underlying statistics were pretty decent. And then there's another guy, and he just signed an NHL contract, and he was the top finished player last year under the age of 20...

Or sorry, under the age of 25. And he has a good chance of making the NHL next year. So it'll be kind of interesting to see two finished defensemen in the 7th round. It might both be playing the NHL, and that's Marcus Natavara

and Semi Niku. Yep. That is an interesting anecdote. You're right. Garrett, we've been talking for two and a half hours. And I think we've said everything there is need to be said

about the 2006 to the 2015 Angel draft. Okay. So no 2016? No. I think this is where we put a pin in and call out a day. Passion finding.

Been awesome at these. I actually don't believe that. Do you have anything in a plug? I guess you're not really doing anything publicly anymore. But you got your Twitter handle. I got my Twitter handle. I still technically run a portion. Do you know like some sort of like an online,

like some sort of seminar or something? I did already do one seminar. Do you have anything else coming up like that? I'm going to eventually do a follow up to it, the second one. Just right now it's been really busy. I'm doing a whole bunch with, well right now I'm the general manager of a major midget team which is right now I'm very busy because the fact that I'm setting up stuff for the season right and then of course we're getting

prepped for next season with hockey data the company we eventually will hopefully be having some stuff that's you know for the public because the fact that that's where I came from yeah but we're not at that point yet but eventually well I look forward to that um thanks for coming to uh to do this exercise with me. I needed a special type of a madman who would devote this much time and effort into this, and you really came through. Hopefully you guys enjoy this as well,

and please make sure to go leave a rating and review on iTunes for this show, and we'll be back either sometime later this week or early next week. Chat soon, Garrett. The Hockey P.D.O.cast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud. at soundcloud.com slash Hockeypedeocast.