The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 192: Kids These Days!

Episode Date: August 24, 2017

Tyler Dellow joins the show to discuss who really drives the bus on Anaheim's second line (2:03), whether the Penguins should be concerned about their lack of depth down the middle (6:06), Detroit's handling of Andreas Athanasiou (13:30), trick with finding the right landing spot for college free agents (18:38), whether the NHL's supposed competitive balance is a good or bad thing (27:07), the relative value of goal scorers vs. playmakers (32:42), Colorado's timeline for their rebuild (47:26), and the league's most overrated and underrated players (53:29). If you’d like to get in on the fun or just have your voice heard in a future episode, feel free to send your questions in on either Twitter or via email and we’ll try to get to them the next time we do a mailbag show. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and, of course, the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React. R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family. Expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged.

It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It is literally made to chill. Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Regressing to the mean since 2050, it's the HockeyPedioCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich.

Welcome to the HockeyPedioCast. My name is Dimitri Filipovich. And joining me is our go-to cycling analyst back from vacation. It's Tyler Delo. Tyler, what's going on, man? Hi, Dimitri. I'm excited to do a PDO cast.

I've got the welta on on my computer. So if anything exciting happens there, we'll be able to bring it to your listeners first since SportsNet didn't pick it up this year. Yeah, that's a bit above my pay grade. I don't decide what we broadcast and what we don't. But, you know what, even if I was in charge of it, I still probably wouldn't have put it on.

But there's a good Canadian boy. He's doing well. He likes hot. Mike Woods He really deserves a shoutout He uh He rode the Giro in the spring And he tweeted that he like

Some guy yelled at him when he was going up one of the tough climbs Go Sends go and he loved it He's a big Sends fan So shout out to Mike Woods Riding the Bwelta He was hanging around with Chris Broom yesterday Which is pretty good company I wonder what Mike Woods thinks about

The Sends impending regression this season Uh, he probably doesn't believe in it These cycling guys just think if you work harder work harder, you can overcome that. Yeah, they figured out the, they figured out the magic elixir. Yeah, we're going to do another mailbag show here. We've been cranking these out this summer and listen, I mean, the listeners have been coming through. They've been nailing it all summer with the questions they've been sending in and they've been one of the biggest reasons we've been able to keep up the regularly scheduled programming while everyone else seems to be sipping

mahitos by the beach. So we're going to get into it here. And it's a good reminder that if anyone else wants to get in on the action for a future show, they can send in a are questions of your Twitter or email and we'll try to get to them. The first one here, and this is one of those kind of quintessential questions that we can debate and that may have no obvious correct answer. It might depend on your perspective. I mean, you know, what is the meaning of life is an obvious one that comes to mind? And my personal favorite one is who drives the bus in Anaheim for the Kessler-Silverberg-Cogliano line?

I'm a little skeptical of Kessler. And just because it kind of looked like he was done by the end of the Vancouver. I didn't know he was done, right? But like, he had a much bigger fall off than the Siddins. And like the Siddins now kind of, you know, they've sort of hit the end of the road. But if you look back at, you know, like 20, what was his last year there? 13, 14. Yeah. Yep. If you look back at that year, you know, he wasn't remotely close to them. Whereas, you know, when it was like Pete Ryan Kessler in the early part of the decade, you know, he was crushing guys when he was on the ice.

And he was right up there with the Siddines as far as possession, etc. So he'd kind of fallen off. Pardon me. And, you know, then he went to Anaheim and he had the big bounce back. But even then, a lot of that is kind of, you know, great numbers and Lindholm's on the ice, so, so otherwise. So I'm a little, I don't know, I'm skeptical. I kind of wonder if maybe Cogliano and Silverberg deserve a little more credit for that

line than the gap. Well, yeah, I mean, there's the, you know, Kessler, obviously. he struggled with injuries quite a bit towards his Denver run too, and sort of plays the style of game that you think wouldn't really age well into his 30s, which is why

I think it's fair to be a bit, you know, have your eyebrows raised about what's been going on with him recently. So he played like 1,200 minutes of 5-on-5 last year. And with Cogliano, he spent nearly like

a thousand of those. And they were awesome whenever they're in the ice together. And when Coglano wasn't out with him, I'll be in a smaller sample, obviously. He has an performance created quite a bit. And I imagine, do you think a lot of that probably has to do with the fact that maybe he was just being deployed for, like, defensive zone draws and stuff? Yeah, I'd say, like, you know, I used to be an Oilers fan,

and I got to watch the development of Andrew Cogliano as a guy taking face-offs. And he can't take face-offs. So I think what was happening there was when the Ducks had defensive zone faceoffs, they'd frequently get, you know, get another center out there and sit Cogliano on the bench. So Cogliano would come out as the play moved up ice. So I don't, I know there's a big split in the Wally there, but I don't really, I don't necessarily buy that that's anything more than circumstance. Right. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, listen, regardless of who is driving that line, it's a very.

effective one for Anaheim. And I think maybe the more interesting question here for them is, you know, we saw last year that as the year went along, they, and they acquired Patrick Eves, especially, they were able to split Perry and Gatslap up effectively for the first time and seemingly forever and sort of give their team three very solid lines they could roll and they became much more dangerous as soon as they did that. Do you think that's something we see more of next season, especially with the user resign now, or do you think that they're going to go back to just loading it up top top? It probably depends.

I kind of think that's probably something you should be deciding on a game-by-game basis, sort of depending who your opposition is and what they have. Because it probably, like, it's, you know, the question really becomes, what are the better matchups for you in a given game? And that kind of depends on what the other guys got, right? Right. So I, yeah, it depends is my answer. Do you want to hear a remarkable Kessler stat?

So last year amongst forwards, just in terms of raw total ice time, only Patrick Kane played more than him last season, which is pretty remarkable. And then, you know, you have Connor McDavid after and Blake Wheeler and Vinny Trauchick. But Kessler was a workhorse for them last year. Yeah, he's a bomber. He's, well, he plays every special team, right? That's what drives it for him. So, yeah. Good. So one of the most regularly recurring questions to appear in this week's mailbag was sort of a Penguins-related question. And it was a concern from their fan base about the fact that they don't really have a natural third-line center option after Nick Benino walked away. And, you know, on the surface, it's probably not great that Daily Face Office Carter, Rownie and Greg McKag listed as their third and fourth options down the middle after the big two.

Yeah. But, and this is something you and I discussed when we did a podcast during the Stanley Cup final, I believe. But, you know, looking at Nick Benino's numbers in 2015-16 versus last season and how that HBK line with himself, Hagelin and Kessel, really cratered into like the low 40s and shot share last season. I mean, it might not necessarily be as big of a loss for them as it may appear on the surface, although I would ideally like to see them figure out a more stable situation. than what they have right now, I guess. Yeah, I kind of agree with you. Like, you know, you look at why that team won last year, and I don't think Nick Benino was a big part of it.

So, you know, with the greatest respect to Nick Benino, I suspect the Penguins will be able to survive that loss, provided that, provided that, what's his name, you know, Sid and Gino are healthy. So do you think assuming, I guess assuming health, which might be a dangerous thing to just assume, off the bat, but do we start seeing signs of a bit of fatigue just based on how much they've played as a team the past couple years? Or do you think it's going to be all systems go,

at least in terms of the regular season next year for the Penguins? I don't know. That's always a tough question for me. It's not something I've ever really looked at. Like, does playing those extra 20-odd games really add that much, you know, as far as mileage? That's supposed to answer is probably yes. But like, it's not, not like guys who are out of the playoffs aren't doing anything, right? Like, they're out there working out too. So, you know, I don't know. It's, does it have some fatigue?

Sure. But, you know, they do also get three months off. So it doesn't seem to me like it's a problem that the penguins can't manage. Yeah, I think they'll be fine. Obviously, assuming their big guys are healthy. If one of those guys goes down, then I guess we can reevaluate. I absolutely agree with that. I think more than any team in a league, you know, they require two guys to be healthy.

So Ani Chopra asks, you mentioned on the PDOCs certain defensemen that are tire fires. If you had to say who are the worst NHL defensemen and why. Let's go with like regulars. Obviously, we're not going to talk about guys who are bouncing between the HL and NHL. I guess Dan Girardi is the first name that comes to mind. here? Who are some of your other favorites who whenever you're looking at any sort of metric or hilariously separated from the pack in a negative regard?

Well, this isn't a metric-based thing necessarily, but I would... I test, eh? I was amazed at how bad Oly Mattel looks at the playoffs. And I know he's been hurt and he's had some health challenges, but... Like, you know, when you go back and look at his numbers, you kind of wonder if he was maybe a benefit... He used to play with Niskinet. Yeah, you kind of wonder if maybe he was a beneficiary of Niskinan.

Right. Because, like, he just, he doesn't look particularly mobile. And, you know, they've got him on a big ticket for a long time. So he's one who really sticks out for, you know, or stuck out for me recently, where I was just like, this guy seems like he's in over his head. Yeah. It's weird because he's, I believe, 23 years old. And he profiles as sort of a more modern.

and day, you know, mobile, puck-moving defensemen, but I think a lot of it has to do with those injuries. And I especially think he struggled with, uh, with hip issues recently. And he was getting exposed out wide quite a bit during the playoffs last season. So I'm right there with you. I mean, you know, guys like obviously Kevin Biaxa and, and Francois Bocheman, who just got a contract with the ducks are, um, worrisome to watch. I think, but is it any secret that those guys are cooked at this point? Like, like, yeah, they don't, playing him against anybody and guys get lit up with him. Like, I'll tell you, I'm excited to see Shea Theodore this year in Vegas.

Right. Because I think Vegas may have snuck, you know, a pretty good defenseman out of there. And I know if you look at his numbers last year, it's kind of like eh. But the thing is, he was playing, you know, he got buried with BXF. That's true. Buried with BXF. That sounds like a good bad name. Yeah.

It's just, I don't know. Like, you know, you say who's the worst defenseman? I think teams sometimes get stuck where they sign this guy who's got a reputation who's like 33 or whatever. And then, you know, the guy just doesn't have his fastball anymore. Okay. Well, this might be a bit off the grid, although I guess you could make the same argument if you've watched him play for the past couple years.

You'd know where his game is at. But I think Jonathan Erickson might be up there for one of the worst contracts in the league. Well, they've got a bunch of them, eh? Like, Detroit's got a couple guys. Like, what's his? Chromeball can't play anybody anymore either. No. But at least, you know, in Cronwall and his prime.

time was, you know, you talked just recently right a few minutes ago here about how you get into trouble sometimes where you, you know, talk yourself into these loyalty contracts for older players that served a purpose for you before. But like Jonathan Erickson never really justified this contract he's currently on and he still has three more years left at 4.25, which is mine, it really boggles mind considering he's already 33 years old and really you could make the argument shouldn't even be in the NHL anymore. Well, I'm going to do a little bit. cross-brand promotion here, Dimitri, but I have a piece coming on Peter Morazik at the

athletic today. And one of the things that was amazing about his year last year was how many shots from the flank were tipped past them. And Scott of Penn Erickson shows up there. And he's, Ericton has an amazing tip. And Mike Green shows up a few times, too. And Mike Green's another guy. I think he can do a job on a third pairing.

But, you know, they were trying to play him as a first pairing guy last year. And it was just, you know, the root caved in. So what you're saying is when we're discussing guys like Joe Pavelsky, who's vaunted hand-eye coordination and ability to tip the puck from in tight is always talked about on broadcasts. We should actually be lumping Jonathan Erickson to that discussion as well. Well, you got to see this goal. I encourage, I'm sure all your listeners, so subscribe to the athletic and you get all the cities if you subscribe. So watch the video of this goal I've got on there because it is marvelous.

Yes. Oh, if you haven't subscribed to the Athletic yet, keep listening to this, but go and do so while you're playing this podcast. Go subscribe to the Athletic. Nah, that's true, actually. We've already got their downloads. I don't really care if they keep listening at this point. Yeah, yeah, and rate the podcast.

Yes, oh, please, rate in a review on iTunes. So, Alan Hall here, and I'm picking him just because he was the first one that came up here, but a few people expressed their concerns about the ongoing Andre. Athanasu situation in my timeline and I think we're going to be in a bit of a disagreement here but he asks how absurd is Detroit to potentially let Athanasu slip through their fingers here. I know you're not a big fan of his game and I understand why but I don't know what do you think about the situation that's going on right now in Detroit with him? I don't know I kind of wonder about this big KHL offer.

Like is the KHL throwing money at third and fourth line NHLers in this point? So, you know, I don't know. Like it's, you know, I'm kind of wondering how much it's a negotiating employee. Yeah, I don't know. He's a funny one. Like, he's a funny one for me just because,

you know, he doesn't really tear up the American League. And, you know, possession of the NHL is not good. You know, like he, it sounds, I don't know. It sounds silly saying this, and it's like all he does is, all he can do is score goals. And you know what? Maybe that's enough. Maybe you can build a line around them, right?

Maybe you could build a lower third, fourth line around them. But, you know, everything else there, I'm kind of like, I don't get why some of the kids just keep going on and on and on about a fan of you. Some of the kids? Some of the kids. Do you know any of those kids, Demetri? I am one of those kids. No, here's the thing. I understand the concerns you have about his game, especially.

defensively. I mean, he was sheltered last season and the Red Wing still did very poorly with him on the ice. But counterpoint, he did just turn 23 years old. He had 15, 5-on-5 goals last year in around 700 minutes. And that was the same amount as guys like Jeff Carter and John Tavares and more than Ovechkin and Kessel. And that's obviously before you even account for the fact that he played way, way less than those guys. So, and it wasn't, you know, it wasn't a shooting percentage mirage where he was in the 20s and it's going to get cut in more than half this season. I think that while his ceiling is definitely limited as a player, if he doesn't iron out the other parts of his game, I think in this specific case, like the Red Wings are in such a compromise spot here because not only are they really bad, but they're also just so

underwhelming in terms of reasons to care about them or watch them this coming season. And he's sort of one of the few attractions just because of the fact that, you know, his unparalleled speed and ability to turn a single sliver of daylight into a breakaway going to other way is sort of became a bit of must-watch TV last year for them, or at least you'd be tuning in as soon as he'd do something. And I don't know, if they lose him for nothing, all of a sudden, like, you're hoping, I guess Dylan Larkin turns around and they still have a guy like Thomas Tatar. But beyond that, they might be right up there with like the Canucks in terms of just the most

unwatchable teams in the league next season. Okay, well that's like, I don't know, I don't think, and like trust me, you know, like I've cheered for a bad team that has flawed prospects and, you know, like I think the Oilers in the late part of the first decade of the 20th century or the 21st century were kind of that team and I don't know, like, you know, like Andrew Cogliano at that time was really fast and they were trying to make an offensive guy and it wasn't working and it wasn't really a reason to watch the games. But like, like, I think at fantasy, you, like, he's, like, what is he? Is he, is he Michael Grabner? Is that fair? Well, I think if he is, that that's a pretty useful player, no? Okay. Well, yes, to a degree, but Michael Grabner also, like, what's Michael Grabner?

He's a third or fourth line guy. You know, I don't know. You know, if you want to, if you want to concede that he's Michael Grabner, then I'm fine. Yeah, sure, he's Michael Grabner. I guess I'm just not, like, Michael Grabner. or is not a franchise altering player. No, I don't think anyone is necessarily claiming that Athanasiou is. I think it's more of a context situation just based on, you know,

if the Red Wings were a really good team and had a bunch of different options, there wouldn't have been this outcry last season about Athena's CU getting buried down the depth chart. It's just that there wasn't really better alternatives to play instead of him. Like the guys they were playing were there's, they're also not good, but they don't provide any other sort of other value, themselves either. So that's why I think people were perplexed by how he was handled last year and this summer. Yeah. I don't know. I like to me, like, you know, when Detroit's, when Detroit is good again,

I'm pretty comfortable with Tennessee who's not going to be a part of it. So I have a hard time getting myself too worked up over whether or not he goes and plays for, you know, Yaro Slavl torpedo or something. Well, I think at this rate, by the time the Red Wings are good again, a lot of the guys currently in NHL will not be in the NHL anymore. that seems like it might not be entirely uncied. So Alex Giuliano asked about the undrafted college free agent du jour, Alex Kerfoot, and he asked this question before we found out he signed with the Colorado avalanche. But I think the more interesting discussion for us to have here is, you know,

everyone sort of knows isn't on the joke at this point that college free agents are typically overvalued and overhyped, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that They're the only sort of guys who can discuss at this point of the season where nothing else is really going on. But I do think that sort of as a... I think it's the second aspect of that too. I think it's an easy way for media guys to kind of curry favor with their sources. Yep. Yeah.

Like you pump some guys' tires. He loves it. His agent loves it. And, you know, it lets you fill, you know, the air during dead time. But I really wish there was like a complimentary rule where, you know, the amount of time you spend. talking about the Matt O'Connor sweepstakes is the amount of time you have to spend talking about Matt O'Connor over the next three years after he signed. I think, you know, TSN having to dump eight hours on Matt O'Connor might cause them to maybe gauge these things a little more carefully. Yes.

They were huge on Matt O'Connor. Huge. Yeah, I remember. Yeah. No, that's fair. I'm going to cut this because I criticize TSN and this is a sports net thing, right? Yes. there we go. That's going to be our drop at the start of the show to get people doing it.

Okay. But I think just in terms of a philosophical debate here, like for a young player like this who is trying to make the transition from college to NHL, you do have this sort of internal debate that goes on between whether it's better to go to a place like Colorado with an abundance of opportunity because there's so few names ahead of him on the depth chart immediately. I imagine that was Colorado's big pitch to him, whereas potentially going to a better team where he's not promised anything and it's very possible he could get buried down the depth chart. You know, I guess there's no, it's tough sort of to quantify this or look at it in any sort of a tangible way, but just as a thought process, like, do you think there is a better way to approach it

or do you think it just, you know, purely on a case-by-case basis? Oh, I think it's pretty case-by-case. to me, the issue really is, you know, if you can play ultimately, you know, it'll take care of itself. So, you know, I don't know, you can plot all those things out to the answer to degree. But, you know, it's hard to predict the future. And, you know, if I was, I don't know, if I was advising a guy, yeah, you know, you'll look for a place where there's a spot. You'll look for a place where there's, you know, yeah, I can see a spot for me. but beyond that, you know, it's, you know, find the city you're comfortable, from my perspective,

find a place you're comfortable in an organization that has an approach that you're comfortable with and get after it. And don't worry too much about, you know, trying to maximize the place where you think you have maybe 8% more opportunities than somewhere else. Well, obviously in an ideal world, you'd be a perfectly complete player and you'd be able to play anywhere. but as we know, most these guys aren't and they have some sort of flaw in their game. And we constantly see time and time again how sort of context-driven performance in the NHL is. And it just, it's very easy, you know, there is an opportunity in a place of Colorado, but at the same time, it's very easy to envision just going there and, you know,

things just not going away. And all of a sudden you completely fall apart as a player. I mean, I think a great example of this would probably be a guy like Justin Schultz. We see where he, I imagine, went to Edmonton because he was promised a lot of opportunity. And there was very few blue liners there in his way. And we see quickly that he wasn't capable of being that sort of top guy that handled everything for them. And then he goes to Pittsburgh. And regardless of your thoughts on how legit his performance was, it's pretty clear that in a sheltered role, he was doing just fine.

And then he could go, you know, has success, wins a couple cups, gets paid. Like, it's, so I guess that's a good example for maybe not going to a place that you're just going to get to play to automatically if you actually can't handle it. Yeah, I guess so. Okay, let's, I'm looking around here. Oh, Matt Walker asks, who's the most likely Ontario hero? And he capitalized that to go to Toronto. There's always been your Perry, Nash, Stamco's, Tavares rumors is Drew Dowdy next. I know you've been, you've been circling this topic.

What are your thoughts on this? I think Drew Dowdy makes the most sense, don't you? Yeah. I mean, just based on his, you know, career trajectory and free agent status and leaves needs, it definitely makes sense. I'm surprised that David Clarkson wasn't included on this list. I know. I know.

Well, he only got four more years or three more years and he's up again. So, but no, you go back to Dowdy, right? I think that's a fascinating one. And, like, you know, thinking about it, like, what we see in the NBA, right, with how guys move around. And here's, you know, and this ties in. your point about context and hockey and all that. You know, like, part of the problem with being on a team that wins Stanley Cups

and you're one of the drivers is that they pay a bunch of other people, your money. This is my view, right? But like, you look at, you look at L.A. L.A.'s got all sorts of Stanley Cup legacy contracts, right? Yep. And they would have been better off letting, say, Dustin Brown walk, giving half that money to Doughty

and then spending half that money on, you know, something else. but that's, you know, that's, that's just how teams operate. They win a cup. Everybody gets paid. And so if you're a player like Dowdy or Copatar or one of these guys who's, you know, had a bunch of success in your 20s, if you stick, you know, unless your general manager is exceptionally disciplined, if you stick with that team, you know, for the second half of your career, you're going to be in a situation where there's a ton of, there's, you know, probably

a ton of kind of sketchy contracts. and you know you're not maybe quite as good as you once were so why you know like gosh if you want to win why not go to a team that's at the other end of the rebuild right that doesn't have all the legacy contracts yet and that's you know you know like hockey's kind of different than basketball that way just you know basketball single player is so much more important um but in you know in hockey the culture is that everybody's really important and everybody needs to get paid and and i think that that that kind of, you know, limits some of these guys as they get further in their career. And, like, it's one thing, you know, if you're Sid, you know, Sid, you know,

Sid, you know, Sid, you know, he can take a pretty average team to a Stanley Cup. But, but yeah, I don't know, to me, Doughty makes a ton of sense, both from a, you know, with the Leaves Need perspective, and just from a perspective of, you know, like, how do you want to manage your career? Yeah. Yeah. No, that, uh, I mean, it would. It would be a much better situation for him in terms of extending his prime and relevance in a league

because I think the kings aren't headed anywhere anytime soon. So, Doughty making a lot of sense there sort of kind of excludes John Tavares from this conversation, right? Like I understand that Tavares connection, but at the same time, at this point, doesn't really make that much sense in the current Leafs situation, I think. Well, yes, except that if I'm the Leafs and I got a shot of John Tavares and it's a concept that makes sense. I'm going to sign it because, you know, a John Tavares in the hand is worth two Drew Daddies in the bush, right? Yeah. And, you know, like there's, you know, you get Tavares and you put him with Matthews.

You know, you're not quite into a Pittsburgh Malk and Crosby scenario, but you've got a pretty good center depth. Yep. So, so yeah, like, I don't know. I guess I kind of wonder, I know, Tavares seems like he likes New York. I don't know. Dowdy makes the most sense positionally, but if I'm the Leaps, I'm not good at any superstar who wants to come to Toronto. I'd sign them up.

Yeah. If John Tavares says he wants to play for your team, you make it work. Aaron Patterson asks, and you mentioned the NBA just a second ago, do you think competitive balance makes the NHL a better or worse product? Would it be better or worse with super teams like we see in the NBA? I don't know You know what's funny Like I follow a bunch of NBA people

Just because I really like the media culture Around the NBA Like there's a lot of really smart stuff And it was funny Like this year For the first three rounds of the playoffs They were all complaining about how boring it was Right

So because it was so predestined So I don't know You know It's one of those things Where there's pluses and minuses to both Like There is something to be said For when you see a

You know a super team get knocked out Right Like you remember when Oh man When were you born, Dimitri? What year? 91. Yeah, go to hell.

I was going to say, you remember when Pittsburgh lost to the Islanders in 93, how exciting that was? Nope. I'm guessing your answer is no. I did not, at the time, I did not speak English, I didn't live in Canada, and I did not know what hockey was. And I don't remember anything from that time, really, so. Yeah, all right.

So you're bringing nothing. But it was crazy, right? Like, when that game seven went to overtime and you have this, like, tremendous underdog Islanders team playing against, you know, a Pittsburgh team that's just totally stacked. And then they beat them. It was unreal. And I guess like even thinking more recently, right? Like when the Oilers in 06 took out the Red Wings, that was pretty phenomenal.

So there is something to be said for how cool it is when a team, you know, takes out a super team. And, you know, like the structure of hockey is such that even if you have a super team, you know, your chances of winning the Cup are not nearly what they are per se the Warriors next year, right? Anyway, anyway. So I don't know. I, you know, it's a matter of personal taste. I kind of like the NHLs. Like, there's things I don't like about the NHL,

but I like how competitive the regular season is generally. So I don't have a huge problem with him. Do you think there'd be an appetite for me to do like a deep dive from the vault series where I just like recap a random series from the 90s, from the early 90s? I go back and just watch them and talk about them. Like, or do you think that a bunch of the established older media members would get furious at the way I discussed it as if it was from some long time ago. Oh, those guys don't listen to a podcast.

That's true. Yeah, I think you can do whatever you want. I mean, you listen to the podcast. Oh, but I'm not older. See? Yeah, to answer this question, I will say that I do think the NHL's parody or competitive balance is a bit overblown. Like, I agree in the regular season, it's definitely.

very competitive and open. But how many teams have had a realistic shot at actually competing for the cup the past five, six years? Yeah. There's been like four teams. I think that's a fair point too, right? Like it's, like there's a group of teams that can win the cup. Yeah.

And the problem is if you're not one of those teams, sure, you can, you know, you can catch one of them and take one of them down. But can you beat two or three of them over the course of the playoffs? And that's, you know, I think harder to do. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's fair. Coach Travis asks, could Detroit trade Zetterberg to a win now team

and would said team be able to unload Zetterberg after two years? Now, I think you know more about this than I do because you're a CBA contract guy, but the Red Wings will be on the hook for Zetterberg's recapture penalty regardless of if they trade him, right? Yes. So if they trade him and then he retires in two years, the recapture penalty, I think, gets doled out based on how much of the recapture benefit you, or how much of the cap benefit you got.

So, you know, in that case, I assume Detroit has had the bulk of the benefit at this point. So, you know, that's that right there is kind of interesting. Like, if you're Detroit and you think that he's going to retire in two years, do you necessarily want to trade him to somebody else? Because, like, next year he's not making a ton of it. I think he's, what, three and a half? 3.35 next year and then 1 million each of his past, each of the last two seasons.

It's convenient that he wants to retire after next season. Yeah. Now, the thing I wonder is if Detroit will just buy out the last two years of his contract because, you know, I think, as I understand it, that will let them, that gives them a better outcome with the, you know, but yeah, they're just going to have to eat it and it's going to suck. That's a good way. to sum up the Red Wings moving forward.

They're just going to have to eat it and it's going to suck. They won two cups to them. What do you want, right? Yeah, no, heck of a player. And I think he's still had a sneaky good season last year. So obviously, for a contender, acquiring it would make a lot of sense. I mean, he does carry that big cap hit, which might be tough to finagle in your books. But, I mean, he's not making that much money anymore and he's still good and you won't

be on the hook for the recapture. So why would you not want to acquire him? Yeah. Yeah, Detroit would have to eat. eat some of that. And I don't know. I, you know, I'm sure they could if they wanted to. I, I suspect somebody would, would be interested in him. But, you know, they're sort of, they're in that no man's land right now, right? Not rebuilding, not, not competing. So we'll see how it goes for them this year. Yeah. Well, they should be rebuilding, but I guess they're technically not

yet based on Ken Holland's comments recently. Let's see here. Oh, Christopher Olson. asks if you were to rate goals assists and second assists in a manner that reflects their contribution to team success, how would that look? I don't know. I probably wouldn't put a ton on second assists. It's funny, I had an argument once with Bruce Peter, who now works for the Leafs. This was many years ago when he was allowed to talk publicly, of course. And we read an argument about Andre Amarcoff, and there used to be Canadian fans who would tell you that,

oh, he creates power play goals with his second assist. So I actually went and watched his second assists. And when you sit down and watch it, I had two takeaways. Number one was, no, that's not true. Number two was, holy cow, Kovalev is amazing. So, you know, I don't put a ton of stock in second assist. And it's kind of a thing where, I don't know, like that's kind of a, it's a bit of a strange question.

But, like, I'm, you know, I'm more interested in, you know, Like if you're trying to understand in a vacuum, whether it's the assists or the goal scoring that's driving the play, like, if there's a guy who's just, like, you look at Joe Thornton, right? Like, when he's on the ice, I bet you he gets an inordinate amount of the first assist and, like, anybody can score. So in that case, I'm kind of like, yeah, I think it's the assists. You know, contrast that with, you know, maybe a guy who's just, like, Rick Nash, peak Rick Nash, right? In his case, I think a lot of that was just peak Rick Nash. You know what I mean? like the goal, you know, like the effort to create the goal.

So like really it's a question about the allocation of value as between, you know, the goal, the first assist, the second assist. And I think it probably changes depending on the, uh, the players involved. Right. So I guess the question, I guess, yeah, so you're saying on a case by case basis and obviously to certain degrees. But I mean, let's say in a vacuum, would you rather, do you think a top playmaker? is going to be more capable of having a tangible, you know,

uh, effect on his linemate and his rest of his teammates production, as opposed to a goal score who might make his playmakers look better than they actually are? I'd probably go with the playmaker. Just I guess thinking about it like Thornton's a big, I really like Thornton and I don't know. Like I find a lot of the, uh, a lot of the high-end goal scores are kind of,

I question how much better they make their teammates. Yeah. I'm a bit gun-shy about putting this out there because it seems like some enterprising individual could actually take this idea and run with it. But you know what? If they do, good for them. But I'd be fascinated to look at a breakdown of which players have earned their linemates the most money over the course of their careers and how much that is. I imagine a guy like Joel Thornton would probably be running away with that stat. Well, I tweeted this a while ago.

But like if you look at Joe Pabelski's like, um, do you look at, um, do you look at, Joe Pavelsky's on-a-shoe shooting presented with him, pardon me, with and without Thornton. Like, it's crazy what a difference Thornton makes. Yeah. And, like, you know, that's,

you know, I really think, like, you know, like, hockey's kind of way of accounting for offensive credit is sort of archaic and, you know, fake. And I really think it leads people to conclusions that are just completely wrong.

And, you know, like, like, I really think, like, it's so funny, like with San Jose, right? Like, they've been trying to like make it not, like, and this is maybe a media construct more than it is a team construct, although it does seem like there's been an element of the sharks with this too.

But like, you know, like it used to be a bit of a punchline with Oilers with, you know, some group of guys, I was friends with who are Oilers fans. It's Logan's team now. Because like the media kept saying like it's Couture's team now,

not Thornton's. And Thornton kept being like, you know, five miles, the best player on the team. And, and that's really, you know,

And like Pavelski, like, you look at Pavelsky, if he doesn't go to San Jose, you know, is he perceived the way he is? I don't think he is. And I think a lot of that is just, you know, the reflected glory of Joe Thornton and credit accruing to a bunch of other people. But I guess it's really about how you think the game works and how you think, you know, the value accrues or, you know, the extent to which you think the NHL's accounting system doesn't reflect, you know, the real value that exists. Yeah. Well, one of my favorite running jokes in NHL over the past couple years has been a young Joe Pavelski. Yes. It's like he's 33 years old now. And handing over the team to him seems like a questionable decision given that. But it is one of those things where, unless he was like a perfectly like useful secondary option and a very effective NHL player before playing with Joe Thornton.

But it's like that part of his career never happened. And the sort of the general public started kicking in on him as soon as he started playing with. Thornton and it's like, oh, who's this young newcomer? It's like he was already like 28 or 29 years old. Yeah, no, I don't have any issue with Pavelsky. It's just for me, it's an issue of, you know, like people keep playing with Joe Thornton and sort of turning into goal-scoring superstars. And I think kind of the, you know, division of credit as between Thornton and, you know, Garin, Chi-Chi, Marlowe wasn't a huge points guy until Thornton came to town.

And then now Pavelsky, like I think that that allocation of credit probably isn't quite right. Yep, I agree with that. Max Power notes that SB Nation, who's doing that top 25, under 25 list, had Eichel at number six behind Pastornak, Sheifley, and Line 8. And he said, please help me understand this madness. Yeah, people are undervaluing Jack Eichol at this point, right? Max Power. Ah, yeah. That's his Twitter handle.

He's the man whose name you'd love to touch? Yes. Do you know what I'm talking about? I don't, but I'm going to pretend like I do so that we can actually discuss the question. All right, but you mustn't touch, Demetri. His name sounds good in your ear. But when you see it, you mustn't fear. Max Powers and Old Simpsons reference, but again, because you were born in 1991.

I've watched the Simpsons. Let's not go that far. I know, but you've seen like post-peak Simpsons. It's all, I don't know, it's not good. Yeah, it's not. Jack Eichol. Yes. Oh, yeah.

No, I thought that list was nuts. Eichol's way too low. Like, I, you know, he had a really good year last year, and I just think, you know, it's a mix of he was injured and Buffalo, you know, Buffalo was Buffalo, right? Yeah. And it's, yeah, so I don't know. It's, you know, I don't really understand. Like, somebody else showed me that somebody had Jack Eichel not ranked on their top 25 under 25. and it's like where does SB Nation get these people like I don't know like SB Nation has many great people

but I do kind of wonder how you don't think Jack Eichl is one of the best 25 under 25 players in the NHL yeah it's remarkable that he had the same number of goals and one more point last year than he had his rookie season in 20 fewer games I think and this is going to be something that's going to be a recurring theme throughout pretty much his entire career I imagine he's going to be he's going to struggle in the public perception side of things just because he's going to be unfairly compared to Connor McDavid, I think? I don't know if I buy that. Like, I think, you know, like, I think at some point that's just going to go away.

Like, it's, it's not fair. Like, I actually, like, I was remember when Evanston went down there for the first time and watching some of the media coverage, I actually felt bad for him because it's like, it's not his fault that he's not Connor McDavid. And, you know, like, how many drafts with Jack Eichel have gone first in? Pretty much all of them. Yes, yes. And so that's, yeah, so that's, so you get my point, right?

Like, he would have gone first a lot. So, you know, it's not really fair to him just to, you know, nick him just because he happened to be in the McDavid year. And like you say, you're right, yeah, 57.61 games last year. You know, he's 20 years old. I don't know. Like, for me, he's one of the top three. I think he's top three under 25.

no problem. Yeah, I think he might be right behind McDavid. Like, I'm... Oh, he said. No, like, he might well be better than, uh, be better than Matthews. Like, to me, that's an open, uh, an open question. So, you know, and that's not a jab at Matthews. It's just, you know, like, Matthews is great.

But I think I call right up there with him. And it's kind of, now the thing is, is Matthews kind of had the magical big season in the big media, uh, first season in the big media market, right? Yeah. Whereas, you know, Ikel's had a bit more of a grind in Buffalo. But, you know, I think sometimes what happens is guys play in, you know, guys play on bad teams. And, you know, they take the heat for it. Or they get, you know, people go, well, if he's that good, you know, he's so good, why isn't the team better?

And it kind of ignores that, you know, Matthews came on to a team that had some good defensemen kicking around. And Ikel, you know, didn't really. Yeah, that's fair. Ray Brinston asks Can you talk about the blues? Nobody ever talks about the blues We'd love to I don't really know

What to say about them at this point Like it seems like They're not They're not stuck in the mud or anything Like that's a good team It's just that I don't Like looking at this team What are the main storylines

For us in the media To discuss right now About the blues? Yeah I don't know Like Vlad Tarasenko is very good Yeah I like their team

They haven't They're not a bad team But they're just so generic right Yeah They're like the ultimate generic NHL team You know like they're basically never go past The first two rounds of the playoffs They're basically never like a complete disaster

Tire fire Like they're just you know They play in a market with no attention So I don't know Like they got some nice players I actually really like watching Robbie Fabry Yeah He's a fun young player at a

watch, we'll see how much, you know, value it contributes. But, uh, yeah, they're a pretty generic team. They're in a division. Like, you look at that division, right? Like, Chicago is obviously a pretty sexy team. Dallas is a pretty sexy team. National's got a lot of, you know, like, start. Winnipeg's a constant sleeper every single season.

Yeah, but you get what I'm saying, right? Like, they're not even like, even like, like, Colorado's like, you can't stop looking at it. Yes. So they're not even a team that, uh, they're not even. the team that, yeah, there's just, they're just kind of there. So I don't know. I'm sorry, I don't really have much exciting to say about St. Louis. Yeah.

Well, maybe Kyle Brodsy actually be the face of their franchise. If you buy that they're just the definition of generic. I mean, yeah, I'm still looking at this depth chart and I'm still trying to come up with big takeaways. Their blue line is worrisome. Like I love Pryco and Petrangelo's. very good, obviously, but beyond that, it's a lot of still reliance on Jay Bowmeister, who doesn't have much left in the tank, and we've been saying that for the past few years,

and then it's like Joel Edmondson and Carl Gunnorson and Robert Bertuzo, so that's not ideal. But, yeah, the forward group is interesting to me, at least, so I guess that's something to talk about. Yep, yep, no, that's true. That's, I don't know, I guess. I just kind of like, like, they have, you know what, and part of it maybe is Hitchcock hockey, right? because he coached there forever and his teams, you know, sometimes aren't the most exciting to watch.

So, I don't know. It's just, yeah, it is what it is. So do you think, how do you think Hitchcock is going to do in Dallas this season? I think it's going to be really, really interesting to see how that works out. Like, he is the antithesis of the kind of hockey they've played. Right. So, you know, but that said, you know, he's won a lot. He's found a way to win with, you know, offensively.

skilled players. So, yeah, no, I don't know how it will work out, but I think it will be interesting just because you're imposing such a, you know, a coach with maybe a different set of beliefs than what was there before. And I guess he's going to have Julius Honka, so I don't even know either bothered playing the season. Just end up the cup now. The Honka Tonk, man.

Yeah, one thing I've mentioned this before in the show, but one thing I really love is just saying Hitchcock's name around. people who have either played for them in the past or just played in the league and have heard stories. They make this kind of alarmed look on their face instantly. And it's just like this visceral reaction. And I think he's definitely, you hear these stories about how he has adapted his style over the years. And it's, you know, giving him more longevity in this league, obviously. I hope that, like, I like this star's roster.

And I think that they could make a nice little. resurgence in here, but I really hope that it doesn't just completely suck up all the fun out of what they had going previously because obviously that would be bad as someone who likes watching them play. So I hope there's a nice balance to be struck there between the things they've done well for the past few years and making something more conducive for winning as well. Okay, well here's the thing that, you know, funny you mentioned that. Did you notice like during the coaching press conference like when they announced Hitch was hired or whatever? There was somebody, like some assistant who they hired, I can't remember who it was, but I think

He's been with Hitch for a while, so I'm sure he can figure it out. But he was sort of saying that, like, part of his role is to tell him when he needs to calm down. And it reminded me, like, when I was just starting out as a lawyer, I had a thing once I was working for this guy, and he was like, we were going to go to do a trial. And it was a heated matter. And this guy was, like, a fiery guy. And, you know, I don't know, I'm young. I'm intimidated.

And he goes, if you think I'm getting too worked up, I want you just to tug on my robes to calm me down. And I'm like, are you kidding me? I don't want to talk on your own. I'm not terrified of you. And I feel like with Hitch, like man, you know, God bless that Hitch handler

because I'd be terrified to get in there too. Yes, the Hitch Handler. That guy's going to be able to write a great tell-all book someday. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So hopefully the Hitch Handler keeps things mellow

and the stars bounce back because you're right, they do have a lot of fun players to watch. Yes. So Trist the Mist or as his Twitter handle is Versace Colon asks, will Nashville trade for Duchenne and should they trade for Duchenne?

See, Dachene's a weird one. I don't have a firm opinion on him. Like, I haven't looked closely at him because his last couple years haven't been great, eh? No. And he's been good with him in Canada, but... It's tough to evaluate the given that situation, right? Yes. No, I completely agree. I completely agree.

That being said, I can certainly see the argument that what Nashville needs is, you know, like another driver up front. So, you know, I can understand, you know, like, you know, if he is that, then yes, he seems like a good fit to me. Like, you look at those finals last year, right? Like, you know, I really think of Ryan Johans, it's healthy, you know, they have a much better shot of winning it. But it was like they just didn't have the oomph to get over the line.

You know what I mean? Yep. And, and so from that perspective, it seems like a good fit. Will they do it? Who knows? we'll see. Yeah, he'd make sense on that team, obviously. I like Matthew Shane.

It would clearly depend on what you were giving up, and you need to factor that in. But I would like to see him go to a place where, I mean, listen, he's 26 years old right now. He's, you know, conceivably still in his prime, and he could contribute to a team like that. I think, you know, I got another question about Gabe Landisg and whether the Abbe should be exploring, trading him as well,

and obviously there were a lot of those rumors last season about him. What are your thoughts on Landis Goggin, whether the Ab should be pursuing that more aggressively than it might be? I don't know. I kind of like with Colorado. Like, do you have any idea what they're trying to do? Big picture. Because I feel like that's a question in order to answer,

you need to understand what they're doing the big picture. Well, I mean, what are they doing? They are going to suck, and they're going to try and acquire as much young talent as possible. guess. Like, when does Colorado plan to be good again? Do you think Colorado is going to be good again sooner than Detroit? I think they could be, but like, I don't understand what they're doing.

Like, like, I said, did you read that Mike Chambers story about, like, talking to Joe Sackick the other day? No, I didn't. I did read Save by Waddle. Oh, that's a great historical artifact at this point. Yeah, I know. It must be weird reading that and then look at the standings now and being like, what happened? No, but like Mike Chambers had this interview with Joe Sackick. And I was like, I'm reading them.

I'm like, they're basically bringing back this. Like they have like four NHL defensemen under contract, maybe five. And like most of them were there last year. I'm looking at their daily faceoff page and I love that Nikita Zedorov is listed on their top pair even though he doesn't have a contract right now. But his picture has the Buffalo Sabres jersey, which is just great. It's like complete ambivalence. I, you know, I don't have any like like, like I, like, like,

The issue for me with the avalanche is like, what are they trying to do? And, you know, what is their timeline for doing it? And that's, you know, that's the issue that I don't really understand. And, like, like, I don't know. God, I'm looking at that page now, too. And, like, Anton Lindholm is bad. And I know it's just daily face off. But, like, like, Anton Lindholm? Well, here's the saving grace and the reason why I brought up Detroit in that question is because, like, two years from now, the abs are pretty much going to be rid of, like, every contract other than McKinnon and Eric Johnson.

Yeah. Which, you know, as you bring up a good point in the fact that there isn't much there, so, like, you do need an NHL roster. But at the same time, like, for Detroit, it's going to be a handful of yours before they just get out of this cap hell they're in and they have so many of these. contracts that they're going to have trouble. Like you can't compete with these contracts they have, whereas for the abs, at least they will have a clean slate. Now, obviously, it depends on whether they can actually

build something from it, which is the tough part. And they have Nathan McKinnon, which Detroit doesn't have. Although it's funny, have you noticed like McKinnon shooting? Was that your P, oh, that was the PTA. Yeah. I have noticed. You're right. Yes, yes.

And just to explain to people what was happening there in my little stream of consciousness that were stopping what I was saying. You guys talked about this on the last PDO cast, the McKinnon doesn't finish well. Now, you know, you wonder how much of that is systems or whatever because you look pretty good for Team Canada. Yeah. But, yeah, okay, I guess I agree with you. I'd rather be in Colorado's position.

But I think Colorado needs to start doing some stuff and having it work out. Yes, for sure. Well, are you in the camp that they're not going to be as bad as they were last year just because their goaltending probably won't be historically. bad. But at the same time, as you mentioned, like, they don't have even like three or four NHL defensemen. So that's not a great place for them to start either. So like they're going to be really bad, obviously, but there's a case to be made. They might not be the worst team in the league next season. They might not be. You know, I, like, you know, they're going to be in the mix, right? Like, who are the teams that might be worse in the league next year if you're doing

it today? What do you got? Vancouver, Colorado. Detroit and New Jersey, I guess. Those are the four and Vegas. Yeah, yeah. So there's your, yeah. So like it's a pretty, but like, yeah, so like right off the top, we kind of think they're going to be in the discussion, right? Mm-hmm. North Harvard asks who's the most overrated player in NHL and the most underrated?

And these questions are always tricky because it, you know, everyone has a different rating system. So it's like, you know, you need to establish that before you discuss who's, overrated or underrated but I think just in terms of like general perception around the league who are there some names that that popped the mind right out of the bat?

Boy, that's tough. That's tough. I don't know. Who do you got? Overrated. I mean, listen, the overrated ones are pretty obvious, right? It's like,

I feel like Shay Weber is a pretty good starting point for this discussion. Yeah, yeah. That's, uh, you know, I, I don't think he's as bad as a lot of people do. Right, so he might be, you know, he might be your answer for underrated as well. Well, see, it's kind of a weird thing, right? Because there's sort of like, you know, like I sort of, like, I think, I think amongst

analytics people, defensemen who put up points tend to get overrated. Mm-hmm. And so there's kind of a, you know, so I, you know, I, I think different kinds of people around hockey have different kinds of overrated players. Yes. Like, Weber's probably pretty, you know, I, I think, I think, I. I can see the argument he's overrated with older school hockey guys. You know, I don't think he's out overrated by, you know,

he might be underrated with, you know, sort of numbers towards. Yeah, this question has become trickier to answer in the past couple of years because there's two very, you know, opposing camps and schools of thought. So it's like there's certain guys that either side latches onto and really hipes up or tries to bring down and then that instantly shifts, you know, perception of them and what their actual value might be. So it's tough, underrated. It's funny how for the longest time, the answer to that was like Louis Erickson and now he's one of the worst contracts in the league. So I guess things really have changed in that regard the past few years. I don't know,

like Nick Baxter maybe. He puts a point, but for whatever reason, never seems to really get a lot of traction in that discussion for like best centers in the league. I mean, I saw, you know, NHL network did that list and they already have Austin Matthews ahead of him, which I thought was a a bit too rich from my blood. Well, it's funny, and like so much of this, like, you know, guys' reputations, like, you know, Baxter plays on a team that's never done anything in the playoffs, and he, you know, obviously, Evechkin sucks up a lot of, like, I think having a guy around who sucks up a lot of

the media oxygen will do a lot for you being overrated or underrated. Like, I think you see that in San Jose, right, with Vlasik and Burns. Something I wrote about recently at the athletic. Hmm. Do you want to touch on that here for people that haven't read it? I think everyone has, but. Oh, have you read it? I have, obviously.

I read all Tyler Delo pieces, including the one you just posted about Petra Marzica. I was reading it while you were talking. Dimitri, you should be paying attention to what I say. I guess you can come back and listen to this. Do you need to hear from me more? Oh, God. I would never listen to my voice on this podcast. I'm always blown away when people say they enjoy it.

Yeah, so the point I was going to make was, no, it's interesting. Like one thing with Blasick, Blasick seemed this year like he was just getting off the ice a lot. And if you look, he had a bad year possession-wise. And I think at least some of it was driven by if a star player left the ice, he would too. And as a result, I think, you know, he would miss out on opportunities to stay on the ice when some offense was happening with the puck going up ice. And a guy like Burns or Schlemko would jump on. And, you know, that's a case where, you know, you talk about the allocation of credit amongst players.

I think Lassick maybe gets stiffed a bit by, you know, some analytics guys and maybe Burns and Schlent will get a little too much credit. Yep. I think that's fair. Okay, one final question here before we get out of here. Matthew Newland asks about the recent Yarramari-Jager Calgary Flames rumors and asks what we think about the fit and where he slots into that lineup. What do your thoughts on Jagger? Do you think he still has something left in the tank to contribute? And if so, does he make sense on this Flames team as currently constructed?

He's a funny one, right? He's still productive. He can't move. Like, he is completely immobile. And, you know, if he wasn't sort of a living legend, the amount of booking penalties he would have got last year would have been astronomical. Like, he literally, he's just constantly. hug,

fuck, fuck, I don't know, does he make sense in Calgary? I don't know that I really see it. Do you?

Well, I like the, you know, a bunch of people have raised this point, but I really think it's an astute one about how,

at this point of his career, you mentioned with that speed, like you really have to cater to that. Like, when you put Yager out there on the ice and a line, it's just going to naturally slow the entire process down.

So while I think he has much more talent than, And, you know, maybe a guy like Michael Furland does at this point. So, you know, just from a fantasy booking perspective, you'd go, oh, well, he makes sense on that top line wing with Monaghan and Goodrow. But I don't really want Yager playing with Goodrow because I want that line to be playing a faster pace.

And it makes sense that a guy like Furland had found success with them last year just because he was able to, like, retrieve pucks and stuff and do, just cause havoc with his speed. Okay. I think you have to call Furland for a point. Is that a fact? Dude, the fact, yeah, okay. Do you know what I'm referencing? No, I don't.

Oh, Kevin VX, after they played, I don't know I think Kevin PX a fan, but I love when the Canucks and, when the Canucks and Flames played in 15, when Calgary made playoffs. Yep. And, you know, Furland's run around. After the game, VX is like, you know,

ripping them to the media near Firkland or whatever his name is. And I just think that's such a good burn where you don't even know a guy's name and he's obviously been you know driving you nuts all the yeah that is a good burn it was an epic display of disrespect and surprisingly entertaining for a hockey player in a post-game interview well the fact of the fact of the fact of the firkland's parents named him michael but then put the e before they a drives me nuts oh me too and i don't know if he's one of those guys i don't know if the nchl always gets it right this spelling yeah like i did you now but i think initially there's some there's some wobbly one

Yep. I writes code digging apart the the NHL's data. You spend a lot of time watching out for that. As to your hockey point before I got down on the Franklin train. That's kind of the issue, right? You almost have to build around him now.

And it's, you know, like, I don't know, Calgary's got a bunch of other people, right? And he kind of limits the extent to which you can play with speed. So I don't know. Like, I think he probably makes place, like, It probably makes sense, like, on a slow team. Yep. I'm not sure that Calgary's that team.

Yeah. Just get them on the sharks and get them playing with Joe Thornton and whoever else and just really just grind the game down as much as possible. See, I'd like to see that. Yeah, absolutely. Or get them, you know, get them, you know, I guess L.A. has already said that they're going to pass, but that would be fun too. Yeah, I think L.A. needs to go in the other direction. They need to, they need to speed it up a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, fair enough, fair enough. I'm actually, LA is one of, I think, I'll be one of the most interesting teams this year to see, you know, my prediction is their course evil fall, their shooting percentage will go up. Because I think they're going to try and make some plays

and take some risks with the puck. And I'll tell you my other prediction for L.A. this year. I want to see if they turned Drew Doughty loose. Oh, like to Toronto or? No, no, no. Like, turned through Dats to play offensively. Yeah. Because I, you know, like, again,

and this has kind of been a theme today, Dimitri but talking about context. I think Dowdy's a guy who has been limited by the context of L.A. and how they want him to play within the Sutter system. And so I'm really excited to see what we'll happen because he's fun to watch, eh?

Like when he's got the puck and he's skating. Yeah. Yeah, you know, he's fun to watch. Which is funny because during that whole Carlson-Dowdy war from two years ago, like it got lost in the shuffle that Doughty himself

is also incredibly fun to watch. And while he wasn't racking up the offensive totals that Carlson was, like, he's still a remarkably dynamic talent. And I really enjoy watching him play. So I would love to see him be kind of let loose a little bit and spread his wings and try to create more offensively himself. Yeah, well, and it's, you know, like, not to get into the whole Kings thing,

but, like, I didn't really find, like, the Pete Kings to be, like, a super exciting hockey team to watch. No. Like, I don't know. they just pound the crap out of other teams on the board. Yeah. And, like, obviously they're very good at it. They won two Stanley Cups.

But, you know, like, when you talk about the teams that were great to watch in this era, I think Chicago and Pittsburgh will be above them on the Stanley Cup winners list, you know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. So I'm really, like, you know, I think Doughty could be a ton of fun to watch, and I really hope that they turn him loose this year with a new coach. Yeah, I like it. All right.

Let's get out of here. We've fulfilled our obligations. People can follow you at Delo Hockey on Twitter and check out all your stuff at the athletic. Yep, that's right. Eight kilometers left in the Vuelta, Demetri. It looks like Michael Woods is hanging around in the Peloton where you need to be. Good old Ottawa boy. All right. Well, Tyler, enjoy the rest of your summer and maybe we'll have you back on before the season to talk about the Pacific Division and discuss the Kings and more depth because I do think that that's going to be a top. you and I will be bouncing back and forth quite a bit this season. Sounds fun, Dimitri. Always good. You have a good summer, too, pal. Chat soon. Yep, cheers, but. Bye.

The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockey PDOCast.