The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 197: 2017-18 NHL Watchability Rankings

Episode Date: October 12, 2017

Craig Custance joins the show to help put together the annual Watchability Rankings, where we stack every team in the NHL from 31 all the way down to 1 based on the entertainment value they figure to provide viewers with this season. As has been the case in years past, the following is a good synopsis of how we approached the task, and what it's ultimately trying to capture: “If you’re sitting down on a random Thursday night and there’s a plethora of games to choose from, which teams are you prioritizing seeing (all other things being equal, putting rooting allegiances aside)? Talent is obviously king, but style and likelihood of engaging in a back-and-forth, fast-paced affair are just as important. It's important to remember that sometimes being a very successful hockey team in terms of wins and losses and your place in these rankings can be inversely related.” Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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joining me as my good buddy Craig Custin's. Craig, what's going on, man? What's up, Dimitri? How you doing? I'm doing good. You're back by popular demand. Unfortunately, the drill guy, who was featured on your last appearance on the PDO cast, wasn't available to make this appearance. He's, you know, his asking rate to come on the show is way too high at this point. He's kind of let the fame go to his head. Drill Guy. Is that like Dark Guy? Does that like Dark Guy really have a radio show? He does. Is that what his name is?

It's amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing what being in the center of the the hockey universe will do for you. It's good for him, though, man. I enjoy the fact that, you know, that thing had some legs and really took a life of its own, and he's parlayed into a little bit of a side gig here. I'm happy for anyone that can do whatever it is they want to be doing, except for drill guy. I wasn't happy that drill guy was so aggressively drilling in the middle of our last recording. Yeah, but we made it work, and we're going to make today's show work as well.

And the plan for us here is we're going to do a little bit of a watchability ranking. we're going to go one through 31 or I guess we're going to go an inverse order. We're going to start with 31 and go all the way down to the most entertaining team. And we're going to hopefully have some disagreements or maybe we'll be completely an agreement on everything. I guess we'll see how it goes. I mean, I actually put together a comprehensive list of my own with notes for each team. You told me before we started recording that you put a couple seconds of thought into it but have a rough draft. I also put together comprehensive list that.

has every single team listed and in a good 10 seconds of thought. There we go. That's a starting point. Okay. So before we get into the actual ranking, let's go with a bit of a methodology here. Like for you, when you're thinking about something like this, what do you, is there stuff you're sort of drawn to or prioritize in terms of like what you want to see? Because obviously you're not going to have these ideal all-star teams just filled with exciting

player after exciting players. So you're going to have to pick and choose and be selective. So what is Craig Custin's looking for when there's 10 different games on at once and you can really kind of have your pick of the litter? You know what? A lot of times it is, it's the teams that I haven't seen a ton of through the years that I'm more excited to watch. So my, so like the top of my lists are more are going to be the teams that have some of the

young players and that are the more emerging teams compared to, you know, let's say it's the Blackhawks, actually the Blackhawks are pretty high on the list. But, you know, maybe some of those teams that through the last decade or whatever, I've seen a million other playoff games. And I'm, I don't want to say less interested because there's some great players than those teams. But I'm definitely more inclined to watch, you know, let's say it's the Oilers and the Maple Leafs, these teams that are kind of on the rise with these star players. Like that to me is the attraction.

Right. With some of those established teams, you sort of, even if it's exciting, you'd know ultimately where you're going to get, whereas, you know, with a team, like, maybe, I don't know, even like a Carolina or something, there's some sort of like. an intrigue involved where you're like I think this team could get really good as the year goes along so I want to be along for the ride a little bit so I definitely agree that's one component of it yeah for sure and Carolina is pretty high my list for that reason and it's like you know because you end up saying a lot of stuff like boy I love that defense and they're really good

and young and you're like well I want to make sure I'm watching them enough so I'm not just repeating kind of these talking points that I've decided in my head you know what I'm saying right so like you know but Carolina is a great example of a team that I didn't watch a ton of last year because when you're covering the whole league, I think, I don't know if you and I've talked about this, but like as the year goes on, you end up pairing down the list. And you're like,

okay, you end up watching more, let's say, to the capitals or whoever that you think is going to make a run so that when I was doing what I was doing last year with the ESPN, it was I know I'm going to hop on this series. So I better be prepared. So if it looks like a team isn't going to make the playoffs or isn't going to be relevant,

in the postseason, you end up phasing them out a little bit. And so this is the time of year where it's like, okay, let's reset that a little bit. Absolutely. And, you know, this one can sometimes have some caveats to it. But I think for the most part, like acknowledging star power here is important. And I know that seems a bit obvious to like, yeah, the best players are going to be the most interesting ones and entertaining ones to watch. But I still think it's an important point because, you know, we spend so much time discussing how hockey is a team sport and not an individual one.

And that's definitely true when it comes to success in the win-loss department. But when you're having a discussion about entertainment value, I think driving interest is, you know, like we're going to talk with Oilers, but Connor McDavid is worth like 10 other really good players just in terms of how much they're going to make you want to watch that team. 100%. Yeah. And I also factored in here a little bit of two things.

They were sort of on the margins, but there's a little bit of a sort of like nuance or unique, stylistic team traits because I feel like the league can sometimes get really cookie cutter and every team kind of winds up sort of just looking the same out of a little bit out of sort of, you know, the conservative nature of things. And sometimes when a team starts doing different things than everyone else and maybe pushing the envelope a little bit, I'm drawn to that a little bit. And the other thing is aesthetics and other frills. I'm a big jersey guy. and I rank the commentary teams in the past, so I'm very critical of those sometimes as well.

So I factored that in a little bit, but that's more so, you know, stuff I can put up with if the actual on-ice talent is good enough. All right. I want to hear your list. All right. Let's dive in. Come out to meet you.

So number 31, I have the Vancouver Canucks. Okay. I'd have at 30. Yeah. So did you have Vegas at 30? 31? So I had Colorado, but I'm already rethinking this based on their start. Yes.

So I had Colorado 31 because I was just like they were so bad last year. And they're going to trade Matthew Shane. And I didn't, I don't know. Like I was like, you know, they're going to be irrelevant in my mind for the most part. But, you know, this is, I did actually put this together because we were going to do this last week. So it's, I'm already like, boy, maybe I was wrong about Colorado. Yeah. these things can be a little fickle because we were going to record last week,

and I pushed it back a little bit just because I wanted to see each team, or at least most of the teams play a couple times, and, you know, perception has obviously changed. But with that said, I mean, if we did this time next week, it could go back to that or it could be completely different. So this stuff's going to change quite a bit as the year goes along, and we just have to acknowledge that and deal with it. So why, like, so Vancouver's last, like, what's your thoughts there?

I just, I just, like, I don't know if I'm being, overly critical of them because I'm here in Vancouver and get to see it up close. But like other than the fact that, you know, on occasion, if, if you catch them on the right night and you squint hard enough, the Siddines still look like the Siddines, other than that, like, like, Bo Horvett's good for a highlight real every couple games. He had one in the opener against Edmonton. But beyond that, it just, I don't, I don't really see, like, what would, what would the selling point be if you were, you know, if you were taking someone to the Canucks game,

like what would your description be for oh this is stuff you need to look out for beyond just let's have some beer I don't know what you would what the attraction is with this team I there is you know what it would just be it would be like a Sudeem's appreciation

you'd be like these were those guys were some of my favorite ever to cover played in one of my favorite finals that I ever covered with that Boston Vancouver's like a final and I would just like that would be my pitch I'm bringing someone to the game like these are good You know, these are Hall of Famers.

Let's appreciate them while we have them. Craig, I take this list very seriously, and you can tell that by the fact that, you know, the debate for who should be 30 and who should be 31 was something I spent the most time probably going back and forth in my mind about. And I had Vegas at 31 for a while. And listen, I bumped them up to 30 because, like, the on-ice talent is horrible.

And don't let the fact that they've won their first three games distract you from that. But there is some sort of like, you know, it feels like a spectacle. There's like a uniqueness to it. I mean, especially for their home games. Like they have the slot machine sound when they score.

They're playing Viva Las Vegas when they win. And hopefully that'll happen a few more times this season. And it's, I'm curious, like, it's what we mentioned earlier about one, you know, knowing what you're going to get versus kind of seeing what's going to happen

and how it's going to unfold. I'm curious to see how guys like a Nate Schmidt, for example, or even like a Brendan Leipzig up front, how they're going to do in expanded roles with opportunity that they've never had in their previous stops. And that's drawing me in. I mean,

I guess that's damning with fame praise because they still have them at 30, but that was my rationale. Like they're 21 because it's just on my list because it's Vegas, right? Like this is a new team. I'm curious when you throw, when you just throw a bunch of random players

together on a roster that haven't come up through a system together or, you know, barely know each other. Like, what is that, is there any on ice impact? Like, I'm kind of drawn to Vegas on some level. Like, not enough that they're top 20, but certainly not that the bottom of my list. And I want to see if James Neal is going to score 70 goals this year also.

It's true. And if Mark Andrefleur is going to have to start 82 games. He might. And when are they going to trade them? Like, I think there's a lot of storylines because, look, I don't think we want to spend too much time on each team, but I think with Vegas, like, what if they're actually kind of competitive and they become a story in the market? But George McPhee is like, man, I got to do the right thing here. Like, we're trying to, he wants to collect draftics and prospects. And someone says, hey, we want

James Neal right now. Like, can he do that? And then the fans are like, oh, what's going on? You know? Yeah. I think there's, I think there's interesting kind of plot lines there. Yeah. And, you know, now that I'm thinking about it, like, if you approach this ranking list from all the teams are playing and you can just you know you can you can pick whichever one you want to watch like Vegas is would be right now really high up for me I would tune into the game just to see what's going on because it is that spectacle I think maybe yeah um as the year gets going along maybe some of that will you know the shine will wear off a little bit and if they just start losing every single game and looking horrible which I suspect will happen eventually still um then we might you know have to come back to the to the drawing board here and bump them down but you're right I think uh I think the fact that I had a 30 was in hindsight a bit too low just purely based on an entertainment value perspective. All right. I have not to just talk to you out of every one of your rankings.

That's my goal. Yeah, you're just going to make me doubt myself here. That's great. So I have Detroit 29. Talk me out of that, editor-in-chief of the athletic Detroit. I can't. No can-do on that one. I had them at 27.

And, I mean, they're off to a nice enough start so far this year. if I'm trying to talk to you into what there is to watch with the Red Wings, what I would say that kind of the casual hockey fan is, like I think Anthony Mapp was going to have a pretty nice season. I think he's the real deal. He's a, he's got that great shot. He's a guy,

he's interesting to talk to because, you know, he scored all those goals in junior and then kind of got, you know, made the transition to a pro and got, there was some pretty public comments about how the Red Wings were disappointed in them. and when I talked to him, he's like, yeah, it took me, he's like, I wish I would have figured out right away that you actually have to show up every day and play hard and work hard. And he basically said, I didn't. And he's like, I think I could have made the transition right from junior if I had known that. Like, he just thought he could coast right into professional hockey.

And it does seem like, and maybe he's just saying the right things. But I don't know if I've ever heard a player just say that. Like, hey, I was kind of dogging it. And now, like, he's a guy, and I don't know if he's an everydayer yet, but he's got the skill set that if he is. he'll be interesting to watch. Him and Dylan Larkin are the only reasons, I think, to watch this team. Yeah. Well, man, that was awesome last year, and I definitely buy that just in the sense that, like,

if you're far and away the best player on your junior team for years, you can probably kind of take that preparation thing a little bit for granted, just because it comes so easy to you, and then you come to the NHL level and you get slapped in the face a little bit, and you have to readjust. But the Dylan Larkin thing is the thing I keep coming back to, because last year was just such a bizarre step in the wrong direction for him, and I'm not a subscriber of the sophomore slump.

I think there was something more to it there. But he's looked better so far, and I wonder if, you know, that he has so much speed, but you have to do something with it and sort of pick your spots. You can't just go in a straight line all the time. And, you know, using that to his advantage, I'm curious to see if he does that a little bit more of the season because there's no reason he shouldn't be significantly better than he was last season.

He'll be better. He's too smart a kid to not be better than he was last year. And I believe in the sophomore slump only kind of along the lines of, you know, once the league has a good look at you and your tendencies, then they start making adjustments. And I don't think Dylan never really adjusted last year to the adjustments. And now he's adjusting to the adjustments to the adjustments.

There's a lot of adjustments. Like we are seeing, like we're seeing, for Shanth who does some stuff for us on the athleticatory kind of grab some video clips and just said, like here's, it was like Dylan Lotton, Lark and flying into the offensive zone and then slamming on the brakes and then waiting for his teammates.

And that was something I don't think you saw very often last year. So there's hope that, I guess. Okay, one final thing in Detroit. We do need to move on. But do you think that Martin Furke can get to his spots off and off of the NHL level

to make that shot of his stick? Probably not at even strength. We're like being super realistic about it. But I think he's so good on the powerplay and that shot is so good that as long as he's kind of like passable at even strength. Like it's fun. Like they just start feeding them almost like in, you know, Vetchkin's office. And it's, you know, it is, it is a ridiculous shot. And, you know, we saw it last year with like Sam Gagne.

There is more, there seems to be more of a willingness by NHL teams to have a power play specialist. I don't remember that happening is often in the past. Well, it makes sense. Yeah. If you're going to have an enforcer on your fourth line, that's kind of a specialist. I feel like this is a more productive one. For sure.

Or it seems like teams are more willing to even have a PK guy in the fourth line. Like, hey, this guy's going to be a... So why wouldn't you have a guy that has some skill? And like when you talk to Jeff Lashel about it, you have to figure out, does it take your power play from 30th to 15? Does it take it from 30th to 28th? Like how much better does it improve your power play when if he is, and I'm not saying this about FERC,

but if there is some sort of drag at even strength. Yeah, something to watch for, I guess, you know, in terms of- Yeah, I might want to move him up to 26 now. Ooh, yeah, I don't know about that. That seems very generous. I have my 29, and I'm sticking in there. I feel comfortable that one. All right, very good.

So I have Buffalo 28th, and I had them higher on my initial list. and I thought the first game they had against the Canadians was optimistic because they were, you know, whenever you have a new coach and you have as much roster turnover as they had, you want to see if things are going to be different than they were before. And it seemed like they were playing this faster, most, more modern pace. And then the game crashing back down Earth quite a bit in the past couple games and reverted back to that old form they had in years past. And like, you know, Jack Eichael is tremendous to watch. And Evander Kane has gotten off to a really, really good start.

and he's exciting to watch as well, but I don't know, make the case for why they should be higher if they should. So I'm, I had him at 12. Okay, hold on, hold on a second. What, 12? For one reason, it's Jack Eiffel. I'm drawn to Star Power. I'm drawn to, like, is this guy going to,

is he going to kind of close that gap between him and Austin Matthews, especially as American Star? right? Like I'm, you know, Conner's kind of, Connor's, he's at his own level. Maybe Austin Matthews is closer than we want to give him credit for. I'm really curious to see where Jack Eichael is in that hierarchy. And then, you know, they give him that contract. Like, I've talked to a few people in the last couple of weeks,

and they're like, look, we think Jack Eichol is a great player, but what, you know, what was the rush and giving him that big, huge deal? Like, he still doesn't have the, he doesn't have the, you know, the kind of experience, even if it's of John McDavid and, you know, so like I think there's a lot of interesting, like what if all of a sudden he's underachieving and not living up to it or putting some pressure on them?

And where does, you know, where are the strides of this team that's supposed to be, you know, has this linear progression up to standings? Like, is that going to happen? I think they're an interesting team. I'm willing to admit they're more interesting than the 28th rank team. I think 12 is crazy.

I feel like every team we've mentioned so far, you've been way higher on them than I have, which, like, do you have any teams in the bottom five, or is it all every team? Like, you have 31 teams jammed into the top 22. Yeah, I just, yeah, I've got 17 ties for 13th place. That's how I did it. Yeah, no, Icole is definitely tremendous to watch. And I'm very curious as well, because so much of his production last year came on the power play, and it seems like he should be way more effective at 515 than he was.

Some of it was probably just, you know, Porlock and the guys he was surrounded with. So if he can take that next step, he'll definitely start earning that money. So I guess that was just, they're thinking that he's young enough and talented enough that he's eventually going to become that player. And they're just getting ahead of it now while they can. What's the rush to me? It's like wait until November then. Like, I don't get that. Where was he going to go?

It's true. Well, this is one of those moments where you really wish we were privy to some of these negotiations and how this stuff unfolds. I don't know if Michael's camp was giving them an ultimatum that he wouldn't sign the season or something like that. And then all of a sudden, if you're Buffalo, you don't really have that much leverage in terms of alienating this guy who's very clearly at this point. Yeah, that's fair. Now I want to find out. Do some digging, Craig. That would be a good story.

27th. I have the LA Kings, who I'm assuming you have like eighth overall or something. Yeah, I haven't met two. Actually? No, 26. Okay, okay, good. You scare me for a second. 27.

So, man, like, Copiturn and Doughty are awesome, and they have a few pieces beyond that. But I struggle watching this team play, even if I think that, like, I'm curious to see from a numbers perspective if they can start converting more shots into goals because they've been talking about it all summer. I just, I don't find myself drawn to actually sitting through their games to see if that's going to unfold. Maybe if they start doing so, I'll start tuning in a bit more. but right now it's a pretty tough sell. Yeah, no. And you know what hurts them too?

Like I got whatever it was, that five-year span where they were, I got so much filled with the Kings. You know what I'm saying? Like, so they get, they get thanked by that too. Like, I've seen a lot of that team. Yeah. I've seen a lot of Kopitar and Dowdy. And, you know, hey, but Dustin Brown's off too nice little start.

He is, yeah, he is. Yeah, it's tough. It feels like the league is changing so much. And they obviously have some parts on the end of the roster that have alternated, but it's still like the same guys. And maybe that's the problem right now because they seem to be stuck in like 2012 or 2013 right now. And I'd like to see them adjust to this more modern NHL. I have Colorado 26, who you had lower. And I did as well until I watched a couple of their games this past week.

All right. So what did you see that? Like I need to be talked to this is one where we're kind of flipped. Do you think this is, your interest is sustainable in this? I'm fully willing to acknowledge that this could come, you know, crashing, crashing down within the next couple weeks, and they could be back down to the bottom two or three here. But first off, on an aesthetic level, I don't think any team has benefited more from the change to Adidas than they have. Going back to those old uniforms is an awesome move, and I'm thoroughly enjoying it.

um wait wait can we talk about that yeah so you mentioned this is another second time you've mentioned jerseys like that impacts you watching the game at all like a little bit i i mean you're you're i'm a visual person you know you're you're watching it i think you know like the predators for example i didn't bump them down on this list but i do have a note about the fact that i hate their new jerseys because i keep thinking they're the like they're the penguins white and yellows and it just bugs me every time i watch them. So it's something that I just think about. I'm not overlooking the on-ice

talent because of it, but it's a little bit of a factor for me. All right. Okay. I'm going to mention Jersey's more as we go along, Craig. Don't you worry. Okay. And then I'm going to interrupt every time. You still talking about Jersey? Yeah.

This, so for all the discussion about Matthew Shade and why he hasn't been traded yet or whether he will be and what's going to happen there and whether he's disgruntled, that combination with him, Alex Kerfoot and Neil Yakupov, has been one of my most pleasant surprises so far. They're like, it seems like they're playing and they probably are with this carefree attitude where they don't really care if they mess up.

And it's led to some pretty entertaining stuff because they're actually getting creative with the puck and try. Just like they're making things happen that most times you'd see NHL players refrain from it because of the risk reward component. But they're just kind of throwing all caution to the win and getting feisty out there. And I'm really enjoying it. I mean, we saw Yakopov have this sort of a start last year in St. Louis, and obviously it didn't wind up working out, and he's burned us so many times that I'm scared to put a lot of stock in him. But he's looked good so far, and the puck is really jumping off his stick,

and I'm very curious to see if that gamble they made on him pans out and whether he can actually rejuvenate his career a little bit. So I'm watching for that. Have I started talking into it a little bit? No. I think Miko Ranson is a player that I'm interested in. Just because somebody that knows that team really well was like this summer was like this guy may be the best of that group. And like I'm like, you know, including like McKinnon and stuff.

And I'm like, really, that's crazy. And they're like just watch this kid's going to be a stud. So like that would be that would be the only reason. And I'm also bitter towards Nathan McKinnon because for like three straight years I was like, get ready everybody. this is the year. You know, he is a breakout star. Because I would see him in, like, last year, like, with the team North America. And I'm like, you've watched him skate and how fast he was and how he, like, stood out among stars.

And so, and then a couple of years ago, I'd cover them in the playoffs. And he was the best player for them in the playoffs. And so every preseason, I'd come in and say, all right, guys, just, you know, be ready. This guy's going to join the elite. And then so maybe I'm just bitter. I'm with, I'm with you there. I mean, he's, last week I wrote about my father. most interesting players to watch this season and he was on that list because when you watch him

like i i i think at his absolute best there's a hand only a handful of players that are just more captivating than he is with just like yeah because he's fast but he also does it with this sort of power that a lot of other speedsters don't where it's train yeah it's like he's like a dominant force out there and you're like how is this guy and like if if you just watched him on that one night you're like how is this guy not the one of the best players in the league and he has been just this shooting percentage hole and I'm I don't have an answer for it like I've heard theories about how maybe like we were talking about this with Larkin in terms of using your speed effectively and sometimes maybe at 5-15 you just sort of just takes himself out of the play because

he's a bit sort of too fast and he doesn't know when to slow it down a little bit or change speeds so he's just taking himself out of the play and out of shooting lanes and I'm willing to acknowledge that that might be a possibility but like for years now it's just he shoots a lot and he looks great, but he's not actually getting the production. I mean, he's still only like 22 years old, I believe, so I don't want to close the book on him, but I'm with you there where I've been waiting for a good three years now for the Nathan McKinnin breakout into being one of the league superstars,

and it hasn't happened yet. I just opened a file that's not the second story idea that you've sparked. Why isn't Nathan McKinnon one of the best players in the league? I think I would read that. Yeah, I would, especially if Craig Custon wrote it. I appreciate that. Arizona Coyote is a 25 for me. or not there'sona oh probably too high 23 yeah i actually had him a bit higher and i bumped him down

a few spots because uh man i just i guess the most recent visual for me was that performance they had in Vegas's homeowner and that was one of the most pitiful things i've seen in a while on an hl surface so um like i like the players in terms of it's a bunch of young guys we haven't really seen in the NHL level yet so you're curious to see how if they're going to take that next step and how good they're really going to be and one guy that it makes admittedly has, like I knew he was good based on his numbers and his draft pedigree, but watching him play these couple games, Clayton Keller is going to be a superstar.

Yeah. No, I agree. So that's why I had that little higher just for Clayton Keller. And he's playing 20 minutes a night right off the hop. Like, this is, you know, he's, I would tune in to see how good he is. And I wanted to see Dylan Strong, too. I was a little bit, you know, I mean, they got to do what they got to do. I'm just curious more than anything.

why this guy isn't the player or any people thought he was going to be. I guess aside from skating. Yeah, I think that's probably a large part of it. I think you answered your own question there. Yeah, I think we're done there. Boston at 24, which might surprise people, although I don't know how high people are on the Bruins.

I think they're, like, I don't think they're the 24th best team in the league by any means. I think they're a lot higher than that, but in terms of reasons to watch and how excited I am, I actually think one of their main selling points is I'm one of the few that actually legitimately enjoys watching Jack Edwards call games. So that's probably not great for it. Well, I mean, but most people kind of get irritated by him

or think he's a complete homer, and he definitely is, but I appreciate that about him because he doesn't pretend that he's not. So he just really goes out all along. In general terms, I don't mind if the guy calling the home team's game as a homer. Like, I don't, that guy doesn't have to be impartial. Like, I don't want my newspaper beat, writer to be cheering the team on. But I'm okay. Like if the guy employed by the team to call the team's game, it's like, I think the fans connect to him. I'm on some level if you're doing that.

I had Boston. Would you say 24? I had on the 25. Oh, there we go. I mean, so we're close. Just because, again, they're not the 25th team in the league, but they're, they get, they get themed up because I've seen a lot of those guys through the years. And Charlie McAvoy would be my draw to watch them. Yeah, I mean, they obviously have a couple. Like, Pasternak is awesome. Brad Marshang, did you, like, a handful of years ago at this point, did you envision that he could ever be anything resembling this type of player?

Did you just think that he'd be sort of that third-line agitator pest that would just be annoying to play against and be effective, but ultimately, like, his ceiling was pretty limited. Yeah, that was, that's where I was at. I don't even know. I was, like, he's the guy that could play with good. players. You know what I'm saying? Like I didn't mind him on my top two lines, but I'm like, yeah, he can play up with actual good players. And then I'm like, oh, wait, now you're like,

oh, Brad Marchand's, he's one of those good players, great player. Yeah, like, yeah, I would agree. Like, I didn't, I didn't necessarily see this rise coming. And to me, it was the eye opener was, you know, him playing with Sid in the World Cup and last year and really, like, you know, did not look out of place. Yeah, he's insanely good, which is what, uh, what makes it even more disappointing every time he does decide to get back to those old shenanigans of his. Oh, I like that about him. Come on, Dimitri. Geez.

Yeah, it's, it's towing a fine line. It's towing a fine line. The Florida Panthers at 23. I had him at a generous 20. I want to rethink that already. What do you think of that, Mike Matheson extension? I don't know. I don't mind it because I know how much they like them. And I think if you extend

the defenseman, you're probably not going to get burned. I think there's a lot of volatility with young forwards. So, like, they might score 30 goals early on, and you want to be careful in extending them. Whereas I think a young defenseman, if they show they're capable of playing, there's always going to be room for them on your D. So you're probably not going to look horrible. I mean, that's my assessment.

They're probably not going to look horrible. So I think, you know, it is a bit of a copycat league, and people have taken stock of the fact that we know what teams like Nashville did for example in their blue line where they made these uh long term kind of calculated risks on players and they buy up more years and at the time they give all those contracts people might be like why would you want to sign this player for this long and then when he hits his peak a few years later all of a sudden he's one of the best bargains in the league and so i accept that i just think with with mike mathison for example, like who were they bidding against to give him 4.875 million per season?

Because I, like, they bought up those eight years and that's fine, but it doesn't really seem like they bought themselves that much of a discount in terms of the annual cap hit, which is the part. But that's the number, right? Like all those, like, I think that's the going rate for the long term contract on the on defensemen. Like that, that,

it was, remember the Kleth bomb and, and who, like, there was like, four or five that basically signed the same for and change long-term contract. And so my thing,

my, what I think happened sometimes with these deals, I'm not saying it's the case in this one, but team, like, teams see these guys getting deals. And then they're like, oh,

we have our version of that guy. Let's do one of those deals. Right. But like, even if it's that guy, like, I think on some level like Danny, the Kaiser got a kind of pretty generous contract in Detroit.

And they were like, oh, let's sign our young defenseman to a long-term deal. And it's like, well, I'd rather have, you know, Oscar Kephbom.

You know what I mean? Yep. And so, like, what I don't get is, I don't know if I would sign if I was the young D. Like, I actually had this conversation the other day with John

Klingberg, who you remember, he signed a contract, long-term deal, like, yeah, he's one of those guys. What,

60 games into his career. And I was like, were you surprised? He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm thinking a couple of years, and they come at me with seven or whatever it was. But he's like, you know what? I was like, screw it. I'm going to do it, you know?

And I'm like, did you, did you, were you worried that you'd be losing money down the road? Like, for sure. He's like, it's definitely. But he's like, if you can get that kind of security and money as a kid, 60 games into your career, that's, I think it's hard to pass up. Yeah, I mean, I'll do respect to Michael Madison, but if someone's offering you $39 million, you take that around.

So you take that. Yeah, you take that. I would take that. You don't like that deal, I can tell. I'm okay with that. I, like, I'm definitely, I like Mike Matheson. So I'm not one of those guys. It's like, like, when I got announced, a lot of people were like, who, like, is that an actual player?

Like, no, Mike Matheson's good. I mean, he's, he's definitely on his way up and he's got an intriguing tool set. I just think that if you're going to be making an eight-year gamble like that, I'd like to see that. at least in the low fours, and I think they overpaid a little bit, and I'm a stickler for that sort of stuff. So I guess... Carolina's got a...

Carolina's got some good ones in the... You know, even the false deals. He's still at 4.8 for the next three years. Yes, sir. 22, the Calgary Flames. I'm at 17. Yeah. I mean, they play fast.

I'll give them that. Like, there's, and there's talent there. I'm just like... And Yager. Oh, yeah, that's true. That's true. That bumps him up. But see, I did this ranking before.

I even accounted for that. So maybe they could bump them up to 20 or 21. But yeah, I mean, I, like Johnny Goodrow looks healthy, which is nice to see. And I'm excited to see if you can kind of have a little bit of a bounce back season here. Like, you know, that line with full league back when Chuck's really fun to watch. I mean, speaking of the Brad Marshall type pests, like, is there a more annoying player to play against if you're the opponent than Matthew Kachuk at this point. Do you see you rip

John having quick? I did. Head off. That was awesome. I'm all for that. I know a few stats nerds that have wanted to do that in the past. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know. Like, I'm just okay on the flames. I think they're a better team than I've ranked them here, but in terms of entertainment, they don't really do that much for me. But I mean, listen, we've listed some pretty good teams so far, so the fact that the 22nd isn't that bad. Yeah. No, I mean, we're in the same neighborhood.

Now, here's the biggest, biggest surprise of all. And I might wind up looking like an idiot for this, but the New Jersey Devils at 21. When's the last time the New Jersey Devils were this high on a list like this? Never, because even when they were good, they were unwatchable. It's true. That's high. I mean, I had them 24 because I wanted to see, you know, the young guys.

But that's 21's aggressive. Now, did you move them up recently? I did. Red, hot stuff. I really did. And listen, they're shooting as a team, like, just under 16%. They're second in the league just behind the Blackhawks, and that explains why they're only behind the Leafs and goals per game so far, and that's obviously not going to continue. The reason why...

But 10 goal differential already for New Jersey Devils. Yeah. Well, the reason why I'm cautiously optimistic is because if people remember, they started like this last year, and then Taylor Hall got injured, and they just really also just didn't have the horses to actually play that way, and they were getting exposed a little bit and getting at the track meets. So I think out of necessity and out of job preservation, not that they won a lot of games as a result, but just in terms of not getting destroyed, like, 6-1 every night,

John Heinz really slowed it down a little bit. And, you know, now they seem more well-equipped to actually play at this pace. And you just see, like, the talent up front. I mean, the blue line is still a concern. But the talent up front, especially when you have, like, Hall, Johansson, and his year through the neutral zone, and they're just making moves and getting into the offensive zone with control every single time, seemingly.

Yeah. That's a recipe for success, and also a recipe for playing entertaining hockey. So it could dry up very easily here, and they could make me look stupid. But more so than the goals, I've just enjoyed the pace and the style they're playing right now as a team, I guess. Yeah, no, and look, they're still going to have those young players.

The interesting thing, Taylor Hall, so they have all these goals, he still doesn't have a goal. He's got 14 shots on gold. Still doesn't have... So, I mean, that's a, you know... Nightgo-hansen trade, I think, really went under the radar this off-season. Like, that was really sneaky good move by ratio. Yeah, I love it.

I mean, that's the whole point of keeping Capspace open to take advantage of someone else's mistake, right? So... A thousand percent. And, like, he gave up... He gave up what teams are going to give up at the trade deadline to have a guy for a month. And now he's got this player as part of their kind of their young core.

That was really smart. So you're the right guy to ask about this, considering you just wrote a book about coaches, and we will talk about that more later, I promise. This isn't the only plug you'll get on the show for that. Thanks. I appreciate it. Yesterday during the Leafs Devils game, Elliot Friedman was on my television, and I know, based on Elliot's track record and his reporting style,

that he wouldn't just be speculating on this or throwing it out of nowhere. But they were talking about John Hines, and he mentioned that NHL teams around the league were scared off of hiring him because he's short and they worried that he wasn't enough of a presence behind the bench. Do you buy that? And if so, is that one of the most NHL things you've ever heard?

A thousand percent. Yeah, I really buy. I do buy that because John, because it is the NHL and it's a very appearance-driven league and you want your coach to be, you know, Mike Babcock and have that presence.

But here's what I, in kind of doing the book, and I want to, I'm going to plug it called Behind the Bench, go to Amazon and buy it, and thank you. And the one thing I learned through that process is in talking to players, especially after I sat down with all these coaches and watched film with them, and then going back and talking to the players, the guys that are really successful are the guys that players think are sincere and not phony.

And I think there's some coaches in the league through the years and maybe we're a bit phony. and I think there's probably guys now that are that players are like I don't even know if this is real and I don't think I think John Heinz like maybe he doesn't have the presence you want for strike

but I think he's a very smart guy who's very believable when you talk to him you know what I mean and ultimately with today's player I think that goes a long way like you just you have to be believable and I think John Heinz is yeah I 100% buy that

okay so the next two teams I have here I'm going to lump together because they've had key injuries to start the year and I think that's kind of throwing off my evaluation of them because if they were healthy I feel like I'd have them a lot higher and now I should probably have them

lower but out of respect for those players and the fact that they're going to come back at some point I have them at this sort of hedging middle spot and that's the Anaheim ducks and the Ottawa senators especially the ducks I mean you know I don't know if you missed one or just two games but gets loud was out the start of the year. Patrick Eves just made his

season debut. They're out, obviously, with No Kessler, Lynn Holm, and Vattenin, and they're playing all these funky lineups, and Jared Bull is still somehow playing for them, and Randy Carlisle is doing some Randy Carlisle stuff. I still like some of the talent there, and when they're healthy, I think they're going to be much more dynamic

and exciting and very good. But right now, there's not that much to be intrigued about, so I guess that's why I bumped them down a little bit here. I had them way low. I am at 28. But if they were healthy. They got the, yeah, maybe, maybe it was a little short-sighted.

I think they get the Randy Carlisle tax on because, you know, I don't think they're playing that exciting of a brand of hockey. And what I like is a guy like Ricard Raquel. You know, I'm interested in watching him. But, like, again, it's okay. I've seen, you know, Ketzlaff and Perry for years. And I also know that those guys, I know how they. operate. Like they're not, they're not going

balls out on October 12th. You know what I mean? Those guys are like, let's conserve it, let's keep stuff in the tanks or the spring. So I don't even know if you see the best of the ducks until, you know, March or February. And so I'm like, okay,

if that's how you're going to approach it, I'm not going to watch it until that. That's fair. I'm going to give him a bit of a shout out here because he's come upon some tough times, but Derek Grant, playing in his 90th NHL game last night had a goal scored. He scored on the power play. I don't know what he was doing on the Anaheim Ducks Power Play, but he scored a

power play goal. And then they reviewed the offside ruling and took it back. And then my followers alerted me that he also had a goal taken away towards the end of last year as well. So he's still stuck on zero goals in 90 NHL games and he's had two taken away. Poor guy. He'll get one. Hockey guys aren't that cruel.

Yeah, hopefully within the next 10. Ottawa Senators, I had them here as well. because Eric Carlson's presence just looms in the background. And every time I see their logo on my NHL TV screen, I'm like, ooh, Eric Carlson. And then I remember that he's on the lineup. And hopefully, it seems like he's out another week or so, but he'll be back eventually.

And when he does, they'll shoot up this list a bit. I mean, you know, they have guys like Mark Stone and Mike Hoffman and Kyle Torres, and there's reasons to watch this team. but as always, everything sort of revolves around Eric Carlson for them. Yeah, I had them lower, you know, the, I think they get things about the system. They play, Ghibusha, and, you know, they're, I don't know, maybe I saw a lot of them in the playoffs, too, so I'm, I was, I've been like, okay, I got it. And if Eric Carlson's on the ice, I don't know, I'm at 29. So you're wondering, like, where, you know, where was our list going to even out?

like dachshunders were that's the list correction. You've been ruthlessly unforgiving to teams that are injured right now. Yeah, maybe I'm just short-sighted. Like I'm like, how do I feel right this moment?

Right. That's fair. Hey, that's, uh, you're being, you're being genuine about it. You'd be a good NHL coach. Yeah. Yeah, thanks. Uh, 18, I have the St. Louis blues.

Okay, 22. Me having the blues at 18 is like the best way to describe the St. Louis blues is a viewing experience. They're fine. Right, right. Yeah, they're okay. Well, you know, I think Tarasenko maybe, like, he's got a little bit of the star power that, like, I was sitting next to someone, I was in Dallas this week. And he's like, you know, my favorite thing to do when I'm watching the game is a former exec.

And it's like, I like to do kind of the ISO can. And so rather than just kind of, he's just like, I ISO cam a guy. And we were actually talking about Mike Green. He's like, Mike Green is one of my favorite guy is the ISO can because he really doesn't, like, he's. His give a crab meter in the defensive zone is almost entertaining. Like you watch him and he's just kind of coasting around. And then all of a sudden when he gets, you know, in the offensive zone, it's a different player.

And, you know, I like to Isolcan Teresanko. So that's, I think, Blue's, I have him a little higher for that. Yeah. If you're ranking like it. No, I didn't. I had them lower. I had him 22. So I like.

I mean, if you're ranking like individual skills, like specifically like one play, like one go-to play, I think the Bears, Teresanko, uh, wrister from that right circle. is like one of the most fun, fun dynamic things going in hockey right now. And, you know, James Schwartz is really fun to watch. And it's a shame.

I mean, maybe they'd be slightly higher if, like, a guy like Robbie Fabre was in the lineup because they do... For sure. They have drafted well and they do have some young,

exciting forwards, but at the end of the day, it's just tough to get too excited about them. So I have the Montreal Canadiens at 17. How do you feel about them? I mean, this is, uh, I don't know, they've,

it's a bizarrely anemic start to the season for them offensively. they've had a lot of shots but haven't had much to show for it um what have you what have you thought so i'm in 19 so we're in the we're you know it's it's it's you know they're yeah they're yeah do you watch teams for the goaltending um yeah like i like i like i you know i like to watch them like yeah i you know i like to watch them on quits i like to watch the best but i yeah i mean to be fair i am definitely more drawn to the you know the star forward to the carlson's yeah but like Like if you're getting a good goal-tending matchup or something, I think that's compelling. What are they doing with Galenioch, who's now skating on the fourth line with, I think,

Alex Hemsky and, like, Tori Mitchell or something like that? I don't know. But, you know, I wrote, I don't, I'm kind of Detroit-centric now because I've been writing so much about them. So I wrote something yesterday about how, because they don't want to rebuild and all this stuff. And I wrote something about how the Dallas Stars basically built a team that could win in a cup without tearing it down. And a big part of that was obviously the Tyler Sagan trade,

which I don't think is repeatable. Like how often can you trade for a guy who's the number two overall pick without giving up like any, you know, I mean, really hurts and all that. Like, if I'm Detroit or if I'm some team that doesn't necessarily want a tank, I'm giving whatever I can to get Galchania. Because why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you say, okay, this is a way to get elite talent and maybe buy low right now? Yeah.

Well, we've seen time and time again That's like the way when you buy low And the disgruntled former top prospect Or I mean, even like a guy who's shown at the NHL level That he's a very productive player. So yeah, that seems like a no-brainer for a team Assuming the Canadians are willing to do so. Craig, let's take a quick little break here to hear from a sponsor

And we'll be back on the other side of things. Before we get back to Craig Cussons And the rest of the watchability rankings, I wanted to share an exciting piece of news that I haven't really had a chance to publicly discuss yet because it's still a bit of a ways away. But I figure this be as good a time as any to start. On the weekend of November 2nd to 4th, the fine folks at Concordia University in Montreal are putting together their annual John Moleson's Sports Marketing Conference once again. The list of speakers that will be

attending is pretty illustrious to say the least. There's Eric Joyce, the assistant GM of the Panthers. There's Megan Chaka, the co-founder of the staffleets. There's Chris Johnson. in PDO cast Hall of Famer on the Mount Rushmore and fresh off his promotion to the Hockey and Canada headlines panel and even Bill Daly the deputy commissioner of the NHL is going to be there and countless others that I haven't mentioned yet and for whatever reason they've also asked me to be a part of that group and that's something I couldn't pass up because it seems like a pretty cool and humbling opportunity so if you're in the Montreal area I'd highly recommend coming out that weekend to see the panels I'm sure we'll do a little bit of a Q&A and meet and greet before

and after and promises to be a good time. And while I'm down there, you know, I've been a Montreal a few times, but it's been during the summertime, and I've yet to be there during the fall hockey season. So I think I need to go to Bell Center for a Havs game for the first time and knock that off my bucket list. And I could as a member of the media, but given the occasion, I feel like I wouldn't be fully soaking up the experience. So I'm considering getting a ticket as a regular fan and going to check it out like that instead. and a big reason why I feel comfortable going that route is because of Seekek. Buying tickets to sporting events can be complicated, but with Seekkeek, it's faster, simpler, and cheaper to do so than ever before.

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All you have to do to claim that is download the C-KeeCap, enter the promo code PDO, and you're good to go. That's promo code P-D-O for $20 off your future first C-Keekeek purchase. And now let's get back to Craig Cussons. Okay, we're back into it. I have the sharks at 16, and honestly, this felt like a bit of a... This felt like Nick Lidsrom's last Norris Trophy,

where it's a bit of a career achievement-type deal, and I'm paying... paying respect and homage to what they used to be and represent in terms of entertainment value, and this might be the last year we're able to do so before they plummet down these rankings. I had the San Jose Shark at 16. This is really exciting. This is that we finally matched up. Did you have similar rationale, or do you actually think they're a 16th most exciting team to watch? I had, you know, I like, I didn't want to put them too far down because you still have this guy in Brent Burns who is, you know, a blast to watch.

They got, you know, they weren't too high up because I've seen them a million times. And so I'm like, I'm not near that. I'm not as excited about them. And I'm not quite convinced this is a team right now that can make a long run. So I'm like, why am I? I don't want to necessarily invest in them. So that's, so you had those kind of things pulling in different directions. So you end up at 16.

Yeah, that's true. Okay, we're in the top 15 here. Very exciting. Exciting. The New York Islanders. I'm just fascinated by this team. There's so many moving parts. There's the John Tavares thing.

There's the fact that I think they actually could be sneaky good if everything comes together. There's just, there's so much going on and I want to be a part of it. I'm glad you want to be a part of it. I had the Islanders at 13, which seems really generous now. But I am, because I think, so I think they're a league story. because of the DeVarra situation. So now all of a sudden, you know, how, where that ends up going, they end up going, how that team plays.

So I think now they become important to watch and to track and to have an opinion about. And, you know, they've got some interesting young players. I'm always fascinated. I've been, like Joshua was saying to me is one of those guys that I've been fascinated with since his draft year, mostly because I remember I went to the combine, sat down with, like, had lunch with them or sat down with them for a good, like,

hour, hour and a half. and was like, it was one of the most entertaining conversations I'd ever had with an, you know, 18-year-old draft prospect. He was fascinating. So I'm like, and, you know, I'm like, I'm all in on this kid. Like, just in terms of my interest, like, it could flame out. He could be a star. And, you know, I hope he has his personality that I think would be good for hockey because

he's not afraid to speak his mind. And I also think he's got a, you know, high-end skill level. So he's got, I'm interested in watching. in DeVos, too. Yeah, I like it. It's a shame Jack Capuano's Mullet isn't behind the bench still because that would have bumped up a few spots for me.

Yeah, they might have been top 10 for me. I think you could lump the Islanders into this list, but these next 14 teams for me are all the teams I'm legitimately excited about and want to watch. And so, like, I have the Minnesota Wild and Carolina Hurricanes here sort of back-to-back in 13-14, and you could honestly talk me into bumping them up even more. I just didn't really know who to take, you know, who to bring down as a result.

But both are sort of have that, have a couple things going for them. Like they don't have the individual star power necessary that we've necessarily that we've talked about. So they kind of fly in the face of that theory. But they're the classic example of the whole being greater than some of the parts. And I also love, they're both unique in how they play and how they're coached. and I think their coach really well and their systems stand out to me. And like the Wild, for example, I urge anyone next time they watch them play. Like they seem to be one of the best teams at getting the puck behind the net

and then operating from there before the other teams goalie and defensemen can adjust. And it leads to a ton of great scoring chances and goal scoring opportunities for them. So stuff like that. And it seems like, you know, knowing Bruce Boudreau and how his teams have, year after year, you know, perform better in shooting percentage than we'd expect them to. I fully believe that's a concerted effort on their part and it's not just a coincidence. So that's what I was going to ask you.

Did you notice them doing that, you know, like under Mike Yo? Like that's an interesting observation or is that a Bruce Drew thing? No, I didn't actually. I would, you know, not that I was watching every single Minnesota wild game under Mike Yo, but I've definitely noticed it recently and it's more of a league-wide trend as well. We know that that can bump up

your shooting percentage a little bit just because it's so tough to defend. And, you know, if a goalie can square up on a shot at this point, most likely he's stopping it. So you need to find ways to make them move. Yeah. And then the hurricanes, I mean, you mentioned them earlier with, yeah, you know, the young blue line and everything they have going for them. And you want to be, you know, you kind of want to get in on the ground floor with them.

I mean, we had that a little bit with the Leafs, and I guess we still do. But they're sort of showing that maybe they're already sort of there as one of the league's better teams, whereas the hurricanes are still on the bubble a little bit. And you kind of want to get into that thing where you're like, oh, I've been following the hurricane since before they were good. It's a little bit of that hipster element going on. they're interesting to me. So I had them at 11. They're interesting to me for the goalie situation too

because you have the classic guy that hasn't gotten the opportunity until this year. And everyone's like, okay, I think I do those goalie tiers every year and people really didn't know what to do with Scott Darling. They're like, I think he's going to be good,

but you don't know until you know. And so that gives, that's another reason to watch them, especially early on in the season. Well, it'll be tough for him not to be an improvement on what they've had in the years past, but how much of an improvement remains to be seen obviously so yeah and Sebastian aho's um one of the players you really need to be

watching he's just a wizard with the puck um the rangers at 12 and the reason why i have them this high is you know speaking of unique systems they are one of the one of the few teams that truly plays that counterattack style under el anvignon and it's work for them in the past years and this might be more so um just anecdotal than anything else but i just feel like they play a disproportionately high number of exciting games. Like I feel like whenever I look at the scoreboard, the Rangers are just in some sort of a back-and-forth shootout and stuff's happening. And maybe I follow a lot of Rangers fans on Twitter,

but they're always like freaking out about what's happening. And I feel like they never have just like an uneventful 3-1 game where nothing really happens and they score an empty net early and it's just a forgettable. Right. Like I feel like something's always happening. Right. And you add Kevin Shat and here to the equation. He's not going to take away from that volatility, right?

Like, he's a guy, like, I'm looking at his numbers now. He's got four points and four games, and he's a minus four, right? So, like, you know, you're going to get some interesting hockey. That power play. I hit him at 14. Yeah, he's great at the power play. Yeah, that power play with him and Zabinajad now as a trigger man looks frightening. So, yeah, he's going to be a bit of an extra 5-15, although, I mean, we'll see if he sticks with McDana.

We've already seen Alainvino go back to his old tricks and bump marks all up the line up. but like it's considering how much McDonough play with Dan Girardy over the past couple years. Like we just said with Darling and the Hurricane's goaltending, it'll be tough for it not to be at least a marginal improvement. So I think that you can look forward to that. Speaking of sneaky good trades, I put that to be a bit of a Chad deal. It was the same, you know, I like that deal. Yeah, he's an awesome player.

Speaking of teams who always seem to be just up to stuff and it's never uneventful, the Philadelphia Flyers. I mean, first off, for my money, the best fan base on Twitter. There's just so snarky and sarcastic, and just they really kind of know how to poke fun at themselves, which I really enjoy, and they don't take themselves too seriously. But at the same time, you can tell that they're just so desperately craving this team to be good again. And it seems like at least under Ron Hextall, they're on the right track. I mean, you can see the makings of the future wave of good Philadelphia,

Flyers teams there. So what was your number on them? I have them at 11th, so they're just outside the top time. Okay, so I had them at 18. I guess I wasn't quite as. Gostis Bears, he's been interesting early on because, like, you never know when they're going to, like, not play them at the, you know, like, you're talking about their fans.

Like, I love watching the reaction when, you know, if he's such a game or if he's not playing at the end of games and stuff. Like, there's enough. And then you want to see Nolan Patrick, too. Like, I'm always curious about these high-end. guys. Yeah, for sure. And, I mean, on that list of most interesting guys for me this year,

Claudeau, who desperately needs a bounce back season and now that he's on the way. Yeah, he does. Yeah, he does. Maybe they can rejuvenate them a little bit there. Some care's to see if that happens. And, yeah, I mean, listen, like, when they go up 5'3 against the national predators, you just know that it's not going to end 5'3. Something's going to happen.

Right, right. Sure enough, they lost that game in, like, the most Philadelphia Flyers way possible. And I say that, I say that lovingly. I want to move them out mine. Is it too late to make changes? I haven't been 18, and I want to move them ahead of like the sharks. This is a fluid,

fluid ranking for us, Craig. Okay, whatever we want. Number 10. So we're in the top 10 here. Very exciting. The Columbus Blue Jackets.

All right. At him at 8. Yeah. We're in the neighborhood. This is for all the, this is for all the haters in Ohio who think that, I just have a vendetta against the blue jackets and I never talk about them on the podcast.

and I dislike them for a reason. Is that a thing? You hate the Blue Jackets? Well, the start of last year I was skeptical, and I make fun of John Tortorella a lot, and I'm sure that, you know, they take that, they just rubbs in the wrong way.

And listen, I really like this Blue Jackets team. I mean, obviously top 10 on my list, they're eighth on yours, and I can't blame you at all. They have so many fascinating, talented players that I want to see how at all. Like, they have so many different combinations. They could potentially use,

especially with their forwards. And I want to see if they're able to find that right fit and what it looks like when they do. I mean, like that team was dynamic last year, and then all of a sudden you add Oliver Bjorksran and Sonny Milano and, you know, or Tammy Panera. You lose Brennan Sod, it was a great player. But, I mean, there's, like, there's so much to like about this team. So I think top ten is a no-brainer. Can we say the analytics world owes John Torrella and GM Yomalakaline in an apology at this point? they crushed

the blue jackets for hiring torch yes and deservingly so after how it went in Vancouver and like and then I remember reading

how Kekeleinen was the worst GM in league and all these awful contracts but that was after everyone loved Yarmot you gotta keep that in mind so there was like a

so well there was a while like I think those two those two got crushed more than like almost any duo I would say two years

lot this time. Yeah, there was, I mean, I remember when Yarmal first took over and, you know, the Blue Jackets had that one season, um, when they lost their penguins in the playoffs, uh, three years ago, I guess now, um, where they were sort of like the trendy team and everyone, uh, everyone was kind of on the bandwagon and I remember people loved Yarmal and then they had, they just kind of went downhill a little bit and people really just flipped on him and I guess now we got to go to a different other direction. I'm still reluctant to, give John Tortorilla too much credit. He's done a good job with his team. I'm not sure. I can't say for certain that it wouldn't have happened with some other coach. And I'm curious to see... So in your book, when you wrote about coaches, and I'm only halfway through, I have to admit.

So I haven't read a Torterella chapter or anything, and I haven't seen if you... The Tortoella chapter is really interesting. Like, you know, there's some evidence below it, because he really opens up. So I'm curious if you dive into this. But, you know, with guys, Tortorella and Hitchcock and Mark Crawford back in the day.

Like there's this idea that like they're obviously great hockey minds. So when they come into a room like the team's going to benefit for it. But eventually their personality is going to grade on the team and they're going to, you know, after just their stick kind of runs thin after a while and they're going to lose that team and it's going to go south horribly. And I'm curious if if that came up in your book because it hasn't yet. And, like, John really kind of bristled at the idea of being compared to those guys. And, you know, I think I mentioned, like, Heenan and, you know, whatever, Bob Hartley or whatever. And he, maybe bristle because no coach wants to be compared to other coaches, but he did not like being lumped in with those guys. And one of the things, I don't know if he made this point.

So after I sat down with him, I talked to, like, a bunch of his former players. And I think it was Brad Richards who pointed out. he's like, look, you know, as much as everyone says, this guy's got a shelf life, or he's hard, or whatever it is, you say about John Tortuella,

that kind of becomes cliche. Half of that lightning team wanted to play for him with the Rangers. I mean, if you look, like Fedotanko went there, Fedotanko had battles with him in Tampa. Brad Richards signs there.

Richards had huge battles with him in Tampa. I think one of them mentioned to me that Vinio Caldier wanted to go to New York and never happened. And so, like, I think these guys, yeah, you're battling with them,

but why guys like John Tortorella is it goes back to the kind of the genuine and the sincerity thing. He's not doing this because he's got an ego and it's about John Tortorella. He's just, he's desperate to win. Like he's such a competitor.

And I think guys are like, okay. And like, yeah, it gets old. But like if you talk to these guys in Columbus, it's not easy playing for him, but I still get the sense they really like them. Yeah. And I don't know.

Maybe we're seeing the maturation of a coach or the evolution of a coach, a guy that's learned how to maybe, but like I mean he's he certainly that I mean that's a team that's got a little bit more mental toughness it seemed like anytime in the past with Columbus they were expected to do well they would like coast and the wheels would fall off

and you're just like what's you deal with that team and he just doesn't allow that and I think it's been a really good fit yeah it's a bit unfair to them because like it's you know they had that magical season last year in the wind streak and they racked up the wins and now like the natural progression we expect is to turn that into a long playoff run.

And in that metro division, it's just, it's so tough because, I mean, you don't have to tell Washington Capitals fans about this, but they've run into a similar thing. And Washington Capitals, I still believe, are ahead of the Blue Jackets on the totem pole here. So it's like, it's kind of a tough situation for them where they can be really fun to watch and really successful. But ultimately, they're going to be judged harshly based on whether they can actually start winning. some playoff games or whether it's going to be a one and done again. And now, like, we're all going to be very firmly in that, oh, great, Sergey Bobrowski, you had a great regular season. But if you don't beat the Penguins in round one or however it's going to be, nobody's

going to want to hear it. We want to see good Bobrovsky in the playoffs, and we haven't seen that yet. And so really, that's, they're almost, like, they're almost at that capital's level, the Blue Jackets, at least the goalie is in my mind. you're skeptical until you see it in the postseason. I think Capitals fans would say the Blue Jackets have a bit of a ways to go before they get mentioned. Not as a team. I just think the goal is like it's the same thing on my mind.

Like when the Capitals are great in the regular season, you're like, okay, that's fine. And the same thing with Bobrovsky. Yeah, that's fair. Okay, I'm going to lump these next three teams together just because I want to get through this here. And I think they're sort of similar because I think there's like a top tier and then these teams are just below. but I had Nashville at nine, Dallas at eight, and Chicago at seven. I know you mentioned that, you know, a team like Chicago, you've seen enough of them over the past few years that they might not intrigue you as much.

Like, did you, how was that reflected in the reasons? I know I used them as my example, and then I actually lied because they're like, because the came of the Kings and the shark are more than I go. I had the Blackhawks at five just because I want to see if they have that last gas, right? Night last gas. I mean, who knows? They could be good for the next five years. But, like, you know, there wasn't that long ago we were like, this is a Stanley Cup team,

and now it's, and they still have all these great players, but, you know, they're so top-heavy. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, obviously not going to score five goals a game and shoot 17% as a team, but, uh, there's, Brennan sod, uh, this is my eye test here. I made this joke on Twitter, brennizod and that red uniform playing with Jonathan Taves just looks right. It just looks right to you? It just looks right. It passes the eye test.

So your eye test is it's like, you know, it's just how pretty it is? No, it just feels right. I have this like visceral feeling that when I see that, I'm like, yep, this is where he needs to be. So you are watching Kane and Dan Naren and going, you know what? Something's wrong here. Yeah, yeah. Brandon's side on a line with Paves. I mean, listen, this is amazingly entertaining to watch and they're incredibly productive, but I just don't know if it's doing it for me.

doing it for me. Yeah, these cross-ice passes are awesome at all, but I want to see random side. Yeah. No, I hear you. I like the buck. They are five. I will be watching a lot of Chicago black hockey. They really needed sod, though, because as great as Panarin is, like, their 5-1-5

performances as a team had really started to create her a little bit as they got older, and Saad is one of the league's best of that. So that's a huge uptick for them. And they have the young guys. like I mean as listen as much as um they have that been there done that and we sort of know what to expect like with guys like Schmaltz and Hartman and like pretty much their entire blue line aside from uh bring yeah exactly exactly um and like goes that four's laying and then i want to see how many games kind of murphy doesn't play after being traded for who yeah that's a tough one um

so stars at eight uh you were just in dallas do want to tell me a little bit about that experience yeah item at 10 so i'm curious i'm curious They must be your big fall or like, I have to assume they had to be one or two last year because those games were crazy. Well, they were. Do you have your last year's rankings? No, so that was two years ago. Last year was the season from hell where everyone was injured and Lindy Rough seemed to kind of phone it in a little bit and everything just came out. Yeah, but you still had to watch the stars because they'd be up four nothing and they would lose five four.

Like their watchability was still pretty high last year. I mean, their eighth. I mean, it's not nothing to scovahed. They're between Chicago and Nashville. That's a pretty good spot to be in. Yeah, I had them at 10. They were, so they're still kind of in the transition. Like Hitch hasn't really sunk his teeth into him yet.

So there's still some of that old Dallas Stars DNA in them, which is good for watchability. Like they'll probably move way down the list once they get to where they need to be defensively. But yeah, like I, the like they're top 10 for me simply because they can roll out a line of Jamie, Ben, Tyler Sagan, and Radgillov. I mean, Rajelov is a wrecking ball out there. and he's fun to watch with that crew. And so they're still there for me in that top 10. Yeah, I mean, it is a bit of a fall from that 2015-16 version that took the hockey world by storm.

It was like probably the most fun team I've watched in a long time. I can't remember who would have topped them. And the interesting thing was like hits, beats him in the playoffs and kind of famously says this team in the way they play is the future of hockey. Yeah, right? And after kind of, I guess it's easy to say after you beat them. And then, you know, now, like, they're basically trying to, you know, can get away from... Right.

Rewire that. Yeah. Yeah. And the Predators at 9. I mean, obviously, I guess they're only really missing Ryan Ellis at this point. I don't know. They're exciting. Like, I, it's weird because last year I thought they were pretty pedestrian.

And, I mean, obviously, you know, the results showed it that they were kind of pedestrian, in the regular season and obviously they really turned it up a notch on the playoffs so they have that extra gear and i think that by the end of the season they'll get there again uh just right now like they're they're fine i mean they're they're ninth so i like them but uh based on the talent i guess they could be higher but i like them a six like we're in the i like the they play a fun style i think um i'm glad to see philip horsberg is and you know it's not taking him like uh how long to take him to really get going actually i was insane it was a while.

Yeah, and he's kind of off to a strong start. So he may, if you get a full season from him, he kind of maybe moves up a notch in the Star Power rankings. And so, yeah, I like that national team. So I have Washington 5 and Pittsburgh 6, and the reason I lump these two together is because they're really tough to separate.

I mean, they obviously are in short on Star Power, and they play fond hockey. I gave the Capitals a slight edge just because, like if I'm not, watching their game and I see that they're heading on heading onto a power play I immediately flip over just because I want to see what's going to what's going to happen there and that considering how close it is the call between the two that gives them a slight edge for me but I mean they're both the best of the best in this league

see that makes you're making the case for the the drum I've been banging for years out there needs to be the kind of the red zone channel for power plays and and overtimes and shootouts that'd be a good channel yeah I would subscribe to that that'd be awesome um Yeah, I had the cap seven and the Penguins for. Yeah. Do we need to like spend much time on that? It's pretty self-explanatory.

Nope. Nope. I think with Pittsburgh, like in hindsight, I guess at the time it was weird too, but man, that year and a half, especially the second season with Mike Johnson as the coach, like, I guess it kind of just shows you that, I mean, they've tinkered with the personnel a little bit, obviously, and they called some guys up from the minors and got faster, and that helps a ton. But, like, philosophy and system is just as important as the talent sometimes. year as well.

For sure. And it's, you know, one of the interesting things, I'm going to keep referencing my goal here because it's fun. What Mike Sullivan said is, you know, I sat down with him and really kind of getting the buy-in and getting, having Sidney Crosby have input into the way they were playing. I think that was a big part of, I mean, you remember, Sidney Crosby all of a sudden his production jumped off to the roof once Mike Sullivan got hired. A lot of it was like he wanted to play with more speed than he was playing with him.

And he wanted to be, you know, get the puck with speed. And in Lexalden gave him that opportunity and that input. And then it was like, okay, but it has to work, right? Like you can't play with speed but not win. And obviously it's worked out okay, I would say, for Pittsburgh. Yeah, they found a marginal success, very to middling. Yeah, they think they found their level. So fourth, I had a Tampa Bay lightning.

And I lumped them with Washington and Pittsburgh here as the Eastern Conference of Elite. The Nemesnikov-Stamco's Kutra of combination is might be like it's up there with that, you know, Ben Sagan combination with Radjolov and the Winnipeg line with Shifley Wheeler and Eilers in terms of just like the most devastating combination. And I love seeing them elevate their game against the Capitals the other night where they really just took it to them in the second half of that. And I also enjoyed that I haven't seen this out very often, but they had a four on the, three power play in overtime and they use four forwards and they wound up scoring the winning goal. So,

yeah, I think Tampa Bay is like, it's a great story in terms of everything they went through last year and now sort of trying to get back to form and they have the players to also captivate your imagination. So there's, they obviously have a lot going for them. So I got two questions with you on the lightning. One,

if you, I'm giving you a franchise to build right now and I'm offering you the next 10 years of Stamcoast or the next 10 years of Kuturo, who are you taking Kutraub without any hesitation Okay And where is Braden point Like we're in terms of how good he is in your mind

Oh he's good He's good, he's good, right? Yeah, he's really good He's one of those guys where it seems like I mean this is reflected in the data Because, you know, he's a positive on ice player So but just from watching him Like he's one of those guys that just always seems to be

Just around the puck and up the stuff and it's always like generating something. It seems like he never has these shifts that just he goes in the ice and goes for a lap and then comes off and nothing happened like something positive seems to happen every time he's out there for Tampa. Yeah, no, I

like, I mean, I think that's one of the positives. Like last year was a disaster right for the lightning and a lot of levels because I mean that was a Calder, I mean, that was a Stanley Cup, you know, that's who I'd pick to win at all. But I think one of the silver linings was giving the opportunity

he got and his emergence and he may be even better this show. Do you think, so just circle back to the Kuturov discussion, like, obviously, I mean, last season, what he did, he started to get some love and recognition league-wide, but like, do you think he's still

a slightly underrated, or do you think people around the league, just, I mean, obviously people in the game, I guess, know him more closely, but like your casual fan, do you think he or she appreciates that Kutrov is probably like one of the best five players in the league right now?

Probably not. I would say, I mean, I think if you did the Stamcoast Kutraff question, just to the casual fan, they're probably saying Stamcoast because the 60 goals score with name recognition, but, like, I wasn't, you know, I was just curious to see your opinion, but I wasn't like,

surprisedly, I was like, no way, that's crazy. Like, he's unbelievable now, and, yeah. He's so dynamic. I'll be interested to see how his future plays out. I think it'll be pretty positive and he's going to cash in. But I mean, the Lightning got obviously a remarkable bargain for their buck with this sort of,

it's a bit longer than a bridge deal, I guess, but the most recent deal they signed him to was one looking pretty good for them. Yeah. Top three here. I have the Winnipeg Jets at third, and it's because. I do too for our second matchup. It's an insane combination of individuals. talent, I still think there's

reasonable concerns to be had about how it all fits and whether they'll be able to put it together. But man, Linae, Eler, Schifley, Wheeler, I mean, Truba, Bufflin still, even like Matthew Perrault around the net, I mean, there's Jesus Christ, there's so much talent on this team.

Do you see Tyler Delo's story on Bufflin? Because he's kind of the analytic darling, and he's like, hey, maybe there's cause for concern here. Well, there's definitely some cause for concern. I agree with Tyler there, but I mean, in terms of, you know, for our purposes here, I think those concerns actually help make the Jets even more entertaining to watch.

Right. Right. No, I don't mind in defensive news, you know, you're getting some of the chances on both ends the A. I'm right with that. And Blake Wheeler, I think, you know, Blake Wheeler might have been the guy a year ago. We were saying, is he getting enough love?

I think people are really starting to appreciate how good player he is. Yes. Around the league and fans. Like, he's a guy. Like, I judge it basically how much a guy goes for. in the auction of the fantasy pool I'm in every year at Fear of the Run Run Run. And Blake Wheeler,

like he was always one of those guys me and Sean did until the other team. You can always get Blake Wheeler deeper than he should. And then, like, this year it was like a bidding war for Blake Wheeler. Yes. Yeah, no, he's awesome.

So we have two teams we haven't mentioned yet, and I assume it's because you also have them as one and two. I'm curious about the order. Are they Edmonton Oilers and Toronto Maple Leafs? Yeah. I had two for Toronto. That's my number two team.

Same here, Craig. We have the same top three. All right. Our top three were the same. That's pretty, I'm not right with that. So my, so, I mean, both, you can watch both those teams all day long and be wildly entertained. And, but, you know, I don't, I don't have to, like, I don't feel like we have to defend why Toronto's two. I mean, Austin Matthews is unbelievable.

I think he's a kid, you know, in terms of sophomore slumps and all. that like he's like you don't have to worry about that like so driven um and so focused on getting better and like i had a conversation with someone kind of close to him recently talking about what he did in the summer in terms of individual skills and things he was working on it and you already see it translating under the ice and you're like man like we may just be scratching the surface here which is pretty amazing yeah especially uh i feel like defensively this season i've noticed a lot with him uh just you know breaking stuff up and turning it directly into offense so Yeah, the ceiling there is through the roof.

I think people might be surprised. I guess maybe not, but I mean, like Toronto is the most exciting team, I think. And it's a good thing they have the puck more often than not because they still absolutely have no clue what they're doing in their own zone. And I imagine that as someone who has covered Mike Babcock teams and spent time with him for that book we've mentioned 20 times already, it must be driving him absolutely. crazy but yeah like when they kick into high gear and they get going and they get this full head of steam it feels like they're just unstoppable i mean we saw it a bit on saturday night against the rangers in two spurts really early in the game and the rangers clawed back and then i guess we saw like the good and the bad of the leaves in that game and uh it makes for entertaining high

scoring hockey uh the oilers are number one for me because Connor McDavid has reached that pantheon of superstardom for me where like if you're a hockey fan you sort of have this you feel this obligation to watch every single Worlders game because otherwise you're going to live in this constant fear that you're missing out on something

that everyone's going to be talking about and it's just like it's really a tier that is impossible almost to reach because as good and exciting as some of these other superst superstars we've already talked about are like it's a It's fine.

I can see the highlight. I can see a gift of it on Twitter. But like with McDavid, it's like you really kind of want to be there for the moment so you can just talk to other people about it as you saw it. Like that goal he scored against the flames and T.J. Brody. Like you just need, you just need someone to talk to about it.

You're like, did I witness this? Like, am I hallucinating right now or did this really happen? I like the one where they, yeah, they had his speed like tapped into the highlight, you know, when you're watching how fast he's going. And all of a sudden slams on the brakes.

And I had the same exact reason. So he's elevated. I'm a little older than you. A little bit. Like this reference, a little bit. This reference, but like he's moved into the, to the, like, he transcends hockey at this point to me. Like, as a sports fan in the United States, like, you know, I lived through, like, Michael Jordan was a guy that you just would watch because it was Michael Jordan. And I grew up in Detroit and, you know, the Pistons fans hated the bowls.

But it was Jordan. And if he was on, you watched them. and then to me kind of the next guy that was like that in sports was Barry Bonds. And I just remember going to the ballpark. I lived in Atlanta and they'd come through a lot. And if you could go see Barry Bonds, you did it because you were like, I want to tell my kids that saw him, you know? And you felt like you were watching history on some level.

And I think Connor McDavid's moving to that level on hockey where you want to be able to say, you saw him even at this phase in his development. And you know the best is still to come with them. but you'd be like, man, we watched when he kind of rocket shifts, you know, into the stratosphere. Yeah. And so, like, that's why the number one of us. Well said, Craig. All right, I think we did it.

I'm glad we had the same top three. It makes me feel good about my decision making here. I guess it makes a bad debate, but good. Hey, by the way, I want to thank you and give a shout out. So I used the guy that did your podcast, a little from any podcast. Well, let's plug the full 60 here. Tell me about it. The full 60 is going to be a weekly hour-long podcast where we kind of just dives into

pretty in-depth conversations with different people around the game. For instance, had a conversation with Mike Rue, so he just won the Red Fisher Award. And it was just fascinating to hear how this kid, you know, spent a lot of years in Florida as a kid. I think he said he moved there when he was 10, became such a passionate hockey guy. You know, and he grew up on Long Island and, you know, sneak and watch, you know, the islanders, I guess you lived near their sub and just subdivision where they all live and watch these guys come back from practice.

And like, I've known Mike a long time and hearing some of these stories about his path to his success, you know, it was really neat. And, you know, we're doing, it's going to be some topical, like what you do here. But also some, like, just get an interesting person on and dive into their path or their, you know, what makes them tick, and it's been so far. It's called the Full 60 on the Athletic. And you can listen now. I'm looking forward to you eventually returning to favor

and having me on for some cross-promotion. I consider you like the brother project. It's true. It's true. We're on, oh yeah, we're going to do our first half, second half. First half on this one, second half on the full six. Exactly. We're going to stop abruptly on one of them and be like,

oh, now you have to go to the other one to figure out what I was going to say after. We just got to figure out what's so interesting that we can talk for two hours about it. That's the key. Maybe like we'll do like people always love either award stuff or like all-star selections or something. People always love those debates. All right.

And okay, we've mentioned the book. Tell me, tell the listener about it one more time because I currently am reading it. I'm about halfway through, I believe. And I've really enjoyed it so far. And I'm going to refrain from, um, you know, vocalizing my, my sort of takeaways or stuff I want to talk about because I want to finish it and then we're going to get you back on the show and we're going to do like a book review deep dive on it. Oh, that'll be fun because it's, what I found in kind of doing the

promotions for it, it's been, it's actually made for interesting conversation. Like sometimes if you're on the radio and people are like, hey, this guy just has a book out, you're like, I can't switch the channel fast. But where this becomes interesting, it's like, because Because the concept is that I sat down with 10 coaches and I watched a game with them. And, you know, in most cases it was kind of the highlight of their career with them. And the stories that emerged from those moments were pretty unbelievable. And every coach was so different from like Joel Quenville shouting at the TV, you know, like he was like in the middle of the game and yelling at refs to, you know,

Mike Babcock taking constant notes and, you know, kind of preparing for his next game by watching the Vancouver. gold metal game and yeah the book is called behind the bench really getting great support from the hockey world which i appreciate eventually um you can get it anywhere books are sold and it's been doing really well so far so i'm excited about that all right that's awesome here krag um yep well enjoy the uh the rest of the season here and i have no doubt we'll as i said we'll get you back on here in a couple weeks to uh to talk about that book a little bit more awesome thanks demetre the hockey with Dmitri Filipovic. Follow on Twitter at Dimphilipovic and on SoundCloud at

Soundcloud.com slash hockeypediocast.