The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 201: Hanging Out with The Cool Uncle

Episode Date: October 25, 2017

Jeff Marek doesn't have a podcast of his own anymore, so we just let him host this one for a day. We discuss a medley of random topics. As you'd expect he shares stories and goes on about obscure draft prospects. It's always fun to hang out with our Cool Uncle. 2:20 Concussions, League Protocol, and Fighting 21:40 Favourite games this season 25:45 Most disappointing teams early on 36:35 Draft prospects to keep an eye on 43:00 Canada's Team 51:30 Hockey books we're reading Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl Defensive Inn, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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and joining me is my good buddy Uncle Jeff Merrick. Uncle, what's going on? I am playing the role of guests today. You always say that. You always say that and then you wind up stealing the show. I mean at this time. I've stopped lying to you. I've known you long enough now that it's about time

that I just stopped lying to you. I think we're at that stage in our relationship now and the lies have to stop. Yes. You know, because when you first meet someone, it doesn't matter whether it's someone socially, someone professionally. Everybody BSes each other.

Until you get to know one another. Then you've sort of earned the respect to be honest. And I think we're there in our relationship now, Dimitri. I'll stop line to you. Yeah. Well, you know how I know you're not a regular guest? Because whenever I have anyone on and I ask them, how's it going, they just say good. And then it's like a really short response.

And then I have to quickly kind of figure out what I want to say. And instead, I ask you, how's it going? And you gave me like a 35 second response on how it's going. So that's... See, here's one of the things that I've learned in broadcasting. You need to know when to let the other guy tap dance or when to let his brain or her brain spool a little bit so they can get to the next element that they want to get to. And so that is essentially the version of like, that's like a little sort of musical interlude

while you collect your thoughts and get ready for the next segment of the program. The show's already getting very self-referential here. I understand that. But that's one of those things you pick up along. I haven't learned much in broadcasting. Trust me, Dmitri, but that's one of the things I have learned so far. Well, it's good to have you back on the podcasting airwaves. I don't know.

Do podcasts have airwaves? It's not. I feel like that would make much more sense on the radio. Yeah. I'm the podcast nomad now. I just wander around from podcast to podcast as I try to find my own, my own little home. Once again, now that my podcast is done. I'm just...

You always have a home here, Jeff. You always have a home here. Thanks, buddy. I'm on the Rushmore, so I feel like I'm in the cradle here, Dimitri. Yeah, we've got to get those... I took the shop down during the summer, but I got to get those shirts back up. I've had some few people wanting to walk around with Jeff Merrick's face on their chest. Oh, sad. That's pathetic. Do something productive with your lives.

So, okay, let's do something productive here with me and you. Let's talk a little bit about hockey. Sure. So did you watch last night's Leaves Kings game? I was working the San Jose Sharks, New York Rangers game, but it was only two games on. I was Rick McCaubey. Actually, Matt Lashoff came by yesterday, so I got to hang out with Matt. I've been seen him in years. So the three of us kind of watch both games at the same time. So a long-winded way of saying, yes, but kind of, because I was paying more attention to San Jose. and the Rangers.

So there's three sort of talking points coming off that game. I mean, one was sort of heading into it. It was, you know, I think it was the first versus the third highest scoring teams in the league. And we expected the Leafs to be up there. But the changes that Kings have made this summer, particularly bringing in an offensive coordinator in Peerretergeron and sort of making a concerted effort to change their style of play has, you know, been an early season success story. We can get into that a bit.

but the other thing that I noticed was, I mean, there was obviously the concussion protocol stuff with Jonathan Quick getting hit in the head and, you know, not really coming out of the game other than for a few seconds. And it sparked this debate online about the need to fight after a big hit even if it's clean. So I guess those are a few things we can talk about here. Sure. Where do you want to start? I mean, the concussion one seems to be the biggie.

That's the one that really galvanizes people. I think there's a really tricky area if you want to start with that. I think there's a really tricky area that we can explore here. And we saw the first sort of element of it last night with Jonathan Quick. Yeah. You want to do it? Yes, let's do it. Let's get into it.

Faking injuries is the big one. You know, as, you know, he refused to pull himself out, you know, you look like, listen, I'm fine. I'm going to stay in the game. But you're trapped by this concussion protocol here. And again, I'm just hypothesizing on this because I've talked to plenty of players, maybe one of them last night that I worked with. Kobe Armstrong, who has, you know, admitted publicly that, yeah, I did it. Every player does it. you do things in order to draw penalties.

You know, is it beyond the realm of possibility that all Jonathan Quick was doing in that situation was he got hit by either, you know, Zach Hyman or Derek Forbert in the head, shook his head a little bit and went down and tried to draw a goal interference penalty. I think it's...

And then when he got bumped, got caught in that concussion protocol Twilight Zone. Right. Where he had to go off and, I mean, is it not, is it beyond the realm of possibility they could have gotten, that when John McQuick finally went off, he told the trainer and the coach, look, I was just trying to draw one out there. And that's all that, and that's all that happened.

Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, there's a little bit of gamesmanship involved there, and it's entirely possible. I think that, you know, with the lasting image of what happened to Mark Andrea Flurry as recently as, what, like a week or 10 days ago. Yeah. And everything we know now about head injuries and how the league hasn't necessarily done the best job of uh of protecting its players in that regard like i i think people are also um it's justifiable that people are cynical about whether you know this was handled correctly again and i guess

only the kings and jonathan quick would actually know the answer to that but it wasn't it didn't look good and regardless of whether it was an actual thing that happened or whether it was uh kind of games and ship on his part optics are bad and what's john stevens going to do uh who is the referee i think it was gislan a bear tell the referee that's uh oh yeah my guys is just trying to a sucker you into getting to getting to getting a penalty here like it puts the coach in a tough tough position it puts quick in a tough position puts a trainer in a tough position it puts the n-h-l in a tough position all because if my little hypothesis is somewhere near correct he's just trying to get a power play for his team well you know who puts in the toughest position poor

darcy kemper i mean what what kind of message does it send that uh the kings were like frantically trying to get quick back in there with one minute and 11 seconds left in the period it's like you can't even handle these 71 seconds of play without giving up a goal. We got to get you out of here. I know, just, you know, just for the optics of it. You know, just take a pass for the rest of the period and then come out for the third. You know, even if you're just trying to draw one, we got caught here. Let's just start to make the best of a bad situation. You know, let's let Kemper eat up the remainder of the period here, and then you'll come up for the third. And we'll all pretend like you went through a concussion protocol. And there won't be any questions about it.

Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on the, on the topic of fighting after a clean hit? I understand why guys do it. I think big hits are more than anything else. You know, there's two reasons. One, I mean, it's a real alpha situation, and you want to be the big dog in that situation. I know it may be stupid, but sports is, you know, what your head knows and what your heart feels. And there's usually a disconnect between those two things. So I get the big dog element of it.

I get that alpha because a lot of alphas in sports and pick whatever sport it is, There's that element of you're not going to do that to my guy, regardless if it's a clean hit or not, I'm going to do whatever it takes to make sure you don't hit my guy, even if it's clean, you know, because it could be potentially dangerous because hits are jarring and hits, even their clean hits, you know, can really hurt a player. Secondly, it kills the momentum right there. And hockey, if you talk to coaches and if you talk to players, they'll talk to you so much about needing to change momentum. Oh, we need to get momentum back on our side. And maybe this is overstated and overplayed,

but these guys all talk about it all the time, about feeling momentum shifts and moments in the game where momentum change or we built on this. And how many times have you heard that? Oh, we really came together after that fight or really built after that big hit in the second period. Whether it's ridiculous or not, these guys believe it.

And these guys feel it. And whether there's numbers to back it up to them, that's irrelevant. And so I think in a lot of ways what that automatic fight is, let's stop the momentum now. Let's not give this team any time to build on a big hit, a big collision, something that'll galvanize the bench, something that'll galvanize the bench, something that'll galvanize all the players on the ice. Let's stop the play right now. We'll have a fight for a couple of minutes. We'll pause to go to the penalty boxes, and then all of a sudden, all the emotion and all the alleged momentum built from that moment will be gone.

Now, you can debate whether that's right or wrong, whether it's stupid or infantile. Hey, hits are legal. We keep hearing players saying, don't take the physicality out of the game, but doesn't a fight right after a hit take the physicality out of the game by very definition? I get all that. But I keep coming back to a couple of things. Players keep talking about momentum and the idea of your head knows one thing, but your heart feels another.

I mean, hands up here who's anyone listening to this podcast right now, who's done something, thing they knew in their head was stupid, but they did so because their heart said this is the right thing to do. I think everyone, everyone would be raising their hand right now. But yeah, I guess. And you know what? I think a lot of it is just top behavior all the way up. Right.

But that's changing because you see it in junior hockey now, like you see a big hit in junior hockey and guys stand there and look at the referee. Like this is becoming more, it's funny. I talked a lot of last year about this with every time I work with Colby because we have this thing about scrums, you know, scrums are the new fights. And right now, you know, there's generations of players that aren't used to fights because there's no fights. And if you look at junior hockey, you know, there's very little fighting, college hockey, very little, if any, fighting at all. By the time you get to the NHL, you know, a fight is a very foreign thing.

And a physical face-to-face confrontation is the unique thing to a lot of players once you take the cages off and once it's just visors. Or in the case of the old guys, you know, visorless, you know, visorless just plain face. And what you see in scrums now is once upon a time when there was a scrum, everybody dropped their gloves. They weren't going to fight, but everyone dropped their gloves and they grabbed someone, right? Remember that old saying? Just get hold of someone, right? Just so that person can't be part of the fight. And each guy would grab each of like strong, right?

And they were like, look at each other. Like they wanted you to know, hey, no monkeying around here. This is all business. Even though we're not going to get involved in the fight, I'm going to make sure that you don't do anything here. We're just going to hold each other to make sure that nothing happens. If you look at scrums now, Demetri, it's hilarious. Because most of the guys are not used to them. I think a little bit intimidated by them, if not afraid of them.

Watch where players look during scrums. Players don't look at each other during scrums anymore. No one looks at each other in the eye. No one has the Joel Kwanville, Mike Bobcock, death stare in a scrum anymore. They grab on because, well, that's what we're supposed to kind of do. do here and they all stare up in space because they don't want that they don't want even a visual confrontation let alone a physical confrontation yeah it's a lot of a saving face and sort of a hold-me-back moments yes yeah yeah yeah yeah right behind the lines but yeah oh where's kevin collins you got to go

behind Kevin Collins oh he's on the league anymore oh damn I'm screwed I mean the thing is is like I guess I mean there's obviously a certain segment of fans that still do enjoy that component of the game I mean, I obviously personally don't. But, like, for example, last night, so I forget the exact players involved. I think it was, like, nicked out or something, or hit someone, and then Matt Martin jumps in and fights Andy Andrioff or something like that. And, like, I thought the point, like, isn't there an instigator rule in place to just toss a guy like Martin for starting a fight like that out of nowhere just as a reactionary thing? And then obviously he comes back on the ice and, you know, the Leafs score a goal shortly thereafter and um you know that's obviously not going to happen all the time

with mad martin he's not he's not out there to score the goals but it's like i i just i'd like to see that part of the game enforced a little bit because i like i'm all for defending your teammates and standing up standing up for your guys but i mean especially like after a clean hit and obviously sometimes as a player on the ice you might not necessarily see it and you just see your guy down there and you think the worst but it's like i don't know it's it just seems unnecessary to me in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, there's that with us or against us type of, you know, there's a real military vibe, like no matter what, no matter, you know, who the aggressor was, who the, you know, the real victim is and, you know, should this guy have kept his head up? And it's,

you know, even if it's a clean body check, you just have to, you have to get immediate revenge, whether you're in the right or you're in the wrong. And that's, I mean, that's fiercely ingrained. I mean, it's fiercely ingrained in hockey culture. But on that play, I don't even think they gave him fighting majors, did they? Did they both send them off for double rough. Like, the weird thing is, like, I'm watching this, and I can't matter, I was there, because I was watching with Lashoff and Armstrong, and I remember

one of them said, like, hang on, I think they're just giving them double roughing. I'm like, they were throwing punches, like the gloves were off, and they were chucking them, and I think they both went off. I could be wrong, I don't have the game sheet in front of me, but I think they both sent them up. They didn't even consider that a fight for some bizarre reason. Well, this would be an interesting

discussion to have with someone who was a big-time advocate of fighting and it's important into the game. Like, how do you I used to be that guy. I used to be that guy. But then how do you reconcile that with the fact that once we reach the playoffs when the games all become very important, it just pretty much gets completely taken out of the game. There are still fights.

Mostly when the games already decided, though, you rarely ever see important ones when the game is still on the line, I feel like. Yeah, no, I mean, they certainly shrink. But at the same time, this comes back to, I think the schedule is really long, you know. And there's a lot, I mean, there's a lot of empty calories. nights. There's a lot of games that quote-unquote don't matter in the grand scheme of things. Like when the stakes are the highest and you can't afford to have anybody sit down, let alone risk an aggressor penalty and sit an extra two and put the team on the power play,

then you just don't do it. Nor do you even have those guys out. But in order to get, there's a lot of things you need to do to get through a season. Now, I'm not saying I necessarily believe this, but teams do. Some teams believe that you need to have a policeman out there to make sure that all your kids, all your players can get through the entire season without having guys head hunt them. You know, jury out again, jury out whether any of this is true, but that was the old school mentality. Let's get through the season and get to the games that really count.

And at that point, you know, you don't need your fourth line cop on the beat. Yes, yeah. Well, so. But it's facing out anyway, right? It is, yeah. I mean, and you look at, I mean, the NHL isn't hitting fast forward on this thing, the lending this thing, I mean, slowly but surely, you know, the latest step was, you know, mandatory visors.

So a lot less players are, um, are fighting now because what are you going to do? You're just going to, you know, crunch an eye tech. Wow, good for you. So you just smashed up your hand. Like, like, when you get to the point, and I think we are going to get there eventually, where full cages are mandatory or full goldfish bowls or man, whatever you choose to put in front of your face, I think we will get to that. point in the game somewhere down the road.

And that, I think, will be the final straw for fighting. So you don't actually have to have a rule. You know, you fight and, you know, you're suspended for 10 games. Just no one's going to do it. But I don't think there's going to be one single act that says you fight, you're suspended for five games. Well, the thing I mean, when you mentioned it being sort of phased out naturally, the thing I'm most fascinated by is, you know, back in the day, every team used to have

at least one spot on their fourth line, basically devoted to a guy whose main role was to drop the gloves and fight and be in and then. Forcer. And now we're seeing more teams sort of instead of devoting that spot to a fighter, they're devoting it to a power player, a penalty kill specialist. And there's so many guys in the HL that are super talented. But, you know, when the game picks up at speed at 5-1-5 at the NHL level, they can't really keep up. So they're, you know, deemed ineffective. But, you know, we see, we saw last year. I mean, Columbus was so, you know, was ahead of the game with having guys like Sam Gunny and Scott Hartnell in their fourth line, but all of a sudden being super useful in the

power play. You know, there's guys like Martin Furk and Detroit and so on and so forth. And I just, I would like to see that become more of a trend and see, you know, how far teams can take it and what happens with that position because there's obviously, I mean, there's enough line of spots that you can sort of kind of pick your spots and be kind of creative with how you're filling out that roster. But that is happening though, isn't it? It is.

Yeah. We are starting to see in the, I mean, first of all, there's no such things as the top six is the top nine now. And even your fourth line has to have some skill and your penalty killers have to be able to move their feet, replays, and play effectively, not just, you know, lie down there and block shots. This is all happening. I think maybe you're concerned if I read you right is it's not happening fast enough for you. But I think if you pull back and look from a macro point of view, I think, to meet you, you kind of everything that you want to happen in the game, it's kind of happening, isn't it?

Maybe just the argument is, is it happening fast enough for you? Yeah. And I think, I think, I legitimately is a conversation there. But I think everything that you're talking about is already, you know, the game is already headed that direction. I mean, yes, but there's still certain teams and coaches that are lagging behind. I mean, Jared Bull is taking regular shifts to the NHL level in 2017. So, I mean, you can't say it's happening league-wide.

Like, it's definitely happening. The onset is increasing and it's happening more and more frequently. And that's an old school coach, right? That's Randy Carlisle. And Randy Carlisle still sees some value in that player, you know, on a fourth line. Well, there's a lot of other coaches that just don't. You know, the best case scenario for a lot of these guys is you have, you know, you have a guy that can, uh, that can play, um, you know, in line, on lines three or four that can also handle himself, uh, if things get. And that's really where this thing is headed anyhow. Like, you know, the days of, you know, Steve McIntyre and George Peros and, you know, the Colton Award. Like, it's gone. Yeah. Like, like, it's, it's done. Um, and I think we're going to look back at that era and go, what the hell are we thinking? And I was one of those. And I was one of those. And I was one of those. people. Like, listen, I was one of those, like, you know, plant the flag, stand by it, you know,

defend it. And at a certain point, you have to realize, you know, if you're a kid and you're walking through the zoo and you're holding a balloon and you let go your balloon to go to a drink at the water fountain and the balloon goes away, no amount of reaching up in the air is going to bring that balloon back. Like, at a certain point, you just have to realize that this is the way the game is changing. And you can either shake your fist at clouds or you can say, okay, this is the new reality of what hockey is and you can do two things. Nothing and like it or go away. And I've always said that I don't think there's anything that's going to make,

I don't think there's anything really that hockey's going to do as a sport on the ice that's going to make me go away. So here I am. Yeah, and part of life is adjusting your expectations and beliefs as you learn more about a certain topic. And I'm right there with you. Like I remember growing up one of my favorite things was like when Jerome McGinla would get mad and fight another guy on the other team to, like, spark himself and his team. And he'd seemingly, like, come back on the ice and score goal and just play way better.

And I remember growing up thinking, like, that was, like, the coolest thing. And now, obviously, as we know more about the importance of fighting and whether there's actually any tangible impact and also all the head injury stuff, like, there's reasons for concern and to be soured on it. And I think that's okay, too. So I think that's what I'm out of it. I think part of it, too, that we lose as part of the conversation, too, is this is still an entertainment product. We tend to think of sports as sports, and there's a separate section of the newspaper dedicated to it. There's a separate section on news blogs that's dedicated to this thing called sports. When really at the pro level, when there's money exchange, now all of a sudden what you used to think of as sports now belongs in the entertainment section.

And it's competing with TV shows. And it's competing with movies. And it's competing with video games. And it's competing with music. is competing with every other place where you would spend your recreational dollars. And I think, you go back, who was that Punch Imlach used to say, you know, if we don't stop this fighting, we're going to have to build bigger arenas here to hold all the people. I mean, it is still, you know, an attraction.

It is still something that people gravitate towards, and it is part of that presentation. The realities of health concerns and concussions have, you know, turned the light of, on after last call and sort of made us all realize that this is probably not the sanest or safest thing. But let's not forget here too. This is still an entertainment product that's being sold. That's why all the jerseys have unique logos and marketing divisions of all these teams have multi-million dollar budgets. That's not why Detroit just doesn't have a D on their jersey and Toronto has a T and Vancouver has a V and Philadelphia has a P and, you know, on and on and on. You know, this is part of this, you know, the fighting has always been part of this product that is being sold.

And that's been baked in the pie for a lot of these guys. And so even the idea of even considering getting rid of it is like taking money out of their pockets. And I think that's why for so long they've resisted this idea of moving towards a more, non-violent NHL. Yeah, I'm right there with you. So we're talking a bit about Randy Carl on the Ducks. Did you catch the

King, sorry, the Ducks Montreal Canadiens game on Friday night? I did. That was my going to sleep game. That, oh my God, did you stay up all night as a result? I mean, that was, I think that's my favorite game this year. Really? I think the first Tampa-Pittsburg game, not the blow-up game from last week, but two weeks ago,

the first Tampa-Pittsburgh game was my favorite game so far this year. Although Pittsburgh and Florida had a really good one two Saturdays ago. I couldn't take my eyes off. It was two different games in two different periods until Anaheim ran away with it. The third was it 30 shots Montreal threw on Anaheim in the second period after getting roasted in the first. Yeah. It's an Anaheim team that's essentially playing Dallas-Akens, San Diego, go gulls in Anaheim ducks jerseys that are just starching the Montreal

Canadians just murk and like left and right I'm like oh my I can't believe I'm seeing this and Montreal came out and I could have sworn there were two bucks on the ice amount of the amount of bucks are being directed at Anheims net that Tampa Bay Pittsburgh game is a completely different sport than the the Canadians ducks game we're talking about here I mean just for comedic purposes I honestly it was like a train wreck you you couldn't look away I mean Cam Fowler goes out early in that game and all of a sudden the ducks are just riding Francois Bocheman and Kevin B.XA and Derek Grant scores his first two career goals and he's approaching 100 NHL games for his career. I mean, it was just, it was so bizarre and it was just a

perfect culmination of things just going horribly wrong in South for the Canadians. And I'm fascinated to see what's going to happen there, and if they can turn around, if there's going to be any drastic changes. But yeah, with the Ducks team, I mean, I've had questions about, you know, what my thoughts are on them and whether they're going to make the playoffs. And I think that the fact that they're keeping their head above water here with all the injuries they've had. It was remarkable. I mean, I can't remember a team start in the year missing this much talent. It looks like they're getting Getslaff and Lynn Holm back now finally as they lose Fowler

and Eves long term and best wishes to Patrick Eves. It's a scary illness he's dealing with right now. But I mean, it's like I like this Ducks team a lot. I think they have a ton of talent, but just watching the roster they've had to use in the first couple weeks has been shocking. It really is the San Diego goals. Yeah, it is. And as you mentioned, they're getting players back. And I think what it gives you room for optimism is, you know, let's wait for Vegas to get out on the road a little bit here. If they've only played, I want to say two road games so far, could be wrong about that, two road games so far this season. Los Angeles will come down to Earth. You know, they're not this team that we've seen out of the gate. And the Jeff Carter injury is probably going to sting sooner than later. Vancouver's been a nice tidy story

Winners of two over the weekend You know, good for them And by the way, how remark I love Dixie, you love that sort of ceremonial This is over now The moment that Jake Vertanan Stood up Nicholas Cronwall In that game on Sunday

When Cronwall dropped down from the blue line It hit him with that Cronwall hit That has destroyed guys And Vortan stood him up and knocked down Cronwall It's like, I've never seen that hit not work I can't believe. I've never seen Nick Cronwell not absolutely destroy someone on that hit. But Fertan is the guy that it was like when Larry Robinson came out of the Montreal dressing room

in that Flyers brawl and made a beeline for Dave Schultz and beat the stuffing out of him. It ended, you know, Dave Schultz as King Kong around the NHL. And I'm like, wow, Jake Bertanen just, you know, ended Cronwall. And that Kronwall hits. Like, wow, that's amazing. But I think what's saving Anaheim here is those, the top three, teams in the Pacific are punching well over their weight right now, and Anaheim is still in the thick of things only a couple of points out of a playoff spot, and with a lot more talent than

LA, Vegas, or Vancouver. So I think they're fine. Yeah, they're going to get healthy eventually. I mean, I guess from that game, the more interesting discussion to be had is, is Montreal, the team that you're most concerned about based on the expectations we had for them heading into the year and them disappointing so far? Or would that all? or go to, I don't know, in New York Rangers or in Edmonton Oilers. Yeah, those are the three. Those are the three. Montreal, the New York Rangers, and the Edminton Oilers.

Willers get Drysidal and Cajyola back tonight, I believe, Dimitri. Correct me on that one if I'm wrong. Yep, I think you're right. And Drysidels playing on the third line, so they're splitting him and McDavid up finally, which I've wanted to see for a while now. Wow. Time to earn the money, right? Yep.

Time to earn the big ticket. I mean, the Rangers are concerning because they can't score goals. And man, did they look flat last night against the San Jose sharks? I mean, San Jose aren't exactly world beaters, but I mean, they were dancing around. They were dancing around the New York Rangers last night. All that great work that Kevin Hays line did against Nashville on Saturday, all undone last night against the San Jose shark. Logan Kachirik continues, by the way, to be a real nice quiet story this year in the NHL for San Jose.

Concerned about the Rangers. Hey, did you think that after that Don Squay goal that Lundquist was going to say, I'm not coming out for the third. Put Pavlik in there. Like I was, especially, you know, he did that little, they tweaked his knee a little bit as Don Squoing went past him and kind of bumped his pad. Once upon time, that's a game. The Lundquist kind of says, yeah, I'm done with.

But he hung in there. Montreal and the New York Rangers in some ways are sort of mirroring each other in that, you know, two veteran coaches, two elite level net minders, and the same questions about who's going to score the goals. are coming from both teams. So pick your poison there. The Rangers the most disappointing because I had them outside the playoffs.

I don't think I had Montreal outside the playoffs. And listen, this is a better team than we've seen from Montreal. I don't think anyone believes, I mean, you're on top of this. I don't think it's going to be a 4% shooting team for the entire season.

I don't think Kerry Price is going to have an 80 save percentage when he's a career 920 save percentage guy. It's bad and everything gets magnified because it's Montreal. Everything gets magnified because it's the beginning of the year. You know, if Montreal or the Rangers go through this in late December or January, are we having the same sky as falling conversation?

Probably not. But as it goes to the haves, I mean, so many things have been questioned by the fans and the media, starting with the Suban deal. And sorry, but it's all coming back once again to the beginning with Adonino started to fall. The P.K. Suban deal. that you just wonder how long, you know, Mark Bergevan can go on with the losing until until he does something about it. Right.

But then the flip side of that is do they even let him do something about it? Yeah, that's the trick here because, like, how can you have confidence in Mark Bergevan to be the guy to fix it if he's the one that got them into this mess to begin with, right? Like that's the trick with with being a general manager. It's like once you make a series of moves and they don't work out, it's you lose the confidence of your ownership or of your fan base that you're the guy for the job because you're the reason we're in this position to begin with. I think those two teams are, I mean, we can take them one by one here.

But like obviously the Canadians, as you mentioned, there's a lot of indicators that suggest they've been super unlucky and they will start scoring goals and getting more saves and they look better. I think that they've looked worse. They're getting shots. Like they're getting chances, right? Like, correct me, I think they have the most shots on goal of any team in the NHL. Like, it's not like it's if they're not getting their chances.

Yes. Yeah, I mean, so the Canadians have looked like worse based on the results, but I think there's more reason to believe that this is going to improve. With the Rangers, I'm having these L.N. Vigno-Kinnock's flashbacks all over again, where the team is kind of just falling apart and everyone is, is blaming the coach for his deployment of guys and his line combinations. but I don't know, there's, it's, it's tough, right? Like, I feel like Lunkwist, um, massed a lot of their flaws in recent years.

And he made everything look better than it actually was. And now that he, he slowed down a little bit and he plays so deep in his crease that it was, you know, his entire game was revolved around, uh, sort of instincts and reaction time. And as you age, if that slows down a little bit, all of a sudden, your ability, ability to do so, uh, evaporates. And it's, it's tough because if he's not going to, be that 920 just reliable every year a safe percentage goalie for them all of a sudden they don't have that to fall back on and now they're really in trouble so i i still don't think they're this bad

but if you're asking me who i'm more concerned about i think it's definitely the rangers and they have to win a bunch of two-to-one games right like like that's like man is chris trider a frustrating player or what like he should should he not be like the prototypical nchl power forward in 2017 you know pop when you look at the skill set, the speed, like all of it. You know, Kreider should be scoring 35 goals a year, shouldn't he? And just like starching guys on the boards. Like that should be Chris Kreider. He's got one goal.

Yeah, but the tough thing with perception is like if a guy like Chris Kreider, who has all the talent and physical tools in the world, when he doesn't live up to that potential, we are like kind of unfairly just, we criticize him, but it's like we talk down upon him as if he's the reason the Rangers are losing. Whereas if a fourth line grinder who has five goals and 20 points in a season does just that, we kind of praise him for doing his job. So it's tough.

But there's different expectations for different players. Like the expectation for, you know, someone like, I don't know, pick some, Mark Stahl is different than the expectation for Ryan McDonough on the team. So that's just a matter of, you know, just like in light. If you ask, if you ask Elaine Vino, his expectations might be higher for Mark Stahl than they they might be for Ryan McDonough. It's funny, you know, I am watching Elaine Vino on the bench. And we saw this in Vancouver.

I mean, you're in Vancouver. You saw this, that slow burn that you see with Elaine Vigno. Do you see some of that behind the bench last night? Yep. That slow burn that. And you know what? Playing 11-7 sucks. You know, ask any player.

Like, it kind of throws a lot of, if not most players, out of their rhythm. It's not a good setup for a lot of teams, 11-4s and 70. It's tough for a lot of guys to find groove when you're doing that. But we knew the direct step on trade was going to hurt them. They did pick up L.S. Anderson, who's a real nice player. Philip Hedo looks like he's going to be a real nice player for the Rangers. So it's not as if he can't see that next wave of forward coming for the New York Rangers. It's just not there right now.

Kevin Hay, if I talk about how frustrating a player Chris Kreider is, Kevin Hayes is equally as frustrating. I referenced that Saturday against Nashville. He was fantastic, Dimitri. Kevin Hayes, like, I don't know. Maybe it's, I keep hearing how bad Kevin Hayes is, but every time I watch Rangers games, he does him that I go, man, man, Kevin Hayes is a good hockey player.

You bet just don't watch enough Rangers games because I'm missing all the awful Kevin Hayes games. More than not, I'm watching Kevin Hayes. I'm like, damn, this guy can play. And, you know, the Nashville game, I know it's right, but that's the best game I've seen him play all season. And maybe over the past year, it was fantastic.

and that line with P.C. and fast, you know, has probably been their best line recently. But, man, Hayes is frustrating. Man, Kreider's frustrating. And I still don't know who Pavel Bushnevich is and where he's supposed to slot in this lineup. I don't. I have no idea. Well, he's not supposed to slot on the fourth line playing like eight minutes a game. I feel like, I feel pretty confident saying that. I mean, if he's going to be like just, you know what, at this point, if you're struggling to score goals, why not? This is a novel idea.

why not let this super talented guy just make a few mistakes, but, you know, create some offense for you as well, considering that's what you're sorely lacking. I don't know. It's, I know it seems like a crazy far-fetched idea, but I don't know. I'm frustrated with this Rangers team. I feel like there's still, even with the step-entry,

there's more talent than they've shown so far, and maybe they'll just be one of these teams this year that perpetually tantalizes us, but I, considering we're less than 10 games in, I'm still holding out hope for them. Stunk on the power play, too, as well. Specifically, well. And then last night again, just stunk on the power play.

Anyway. Okay, let's take a quick... Someone's got to be bad, right? Yes. Well, yeah, all 31 teams can win us down the cup, Jeff. There's some analytics for you. Good, man. Let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor,

and we'll talk a bit about the draft and prospects on the other end of things. Sure. While Uncle Jeff takes a quick breather on the bench, allow me to sub in and tell you about Seekek, the sponsor of today's HockeyO guest. The thing about Seekek is they realize your time is, super valuable. They know you're all about using your time wisely and efficiently because you're listening to the PDOCAST after all and not your local sports stock radio. You know that we'll get in here,

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and guaranteeing that what you're paying for is what you're actually getting. Now, go treat yourself to a night out. Honestly, it doesn't matter who you're watching. The league's gotten to the point where regardless of the team, there's at least a couple individual players that will make them watching them worthwhile. I think it's easy to take it for granted, just how physically. impressive some of the athletes are these days and it doesn't really translate if you're watching it on TV or your computer but then you go to the game and you're at the rink and it's just mesmerizing

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and you're the guy to talk about this so i'm going to give the floor to you here you know evan cossaman asks who are uh who are the players out of the projected top five or the top handful i mean we obviously know about rasmus dalin and and andre svetnikov and the top guys but are there certain guys you're excited seeing um you know how their years are going to play out and where they're going to end up in when we get to draft season again? Are there any notables that stick out to you? Jack McBain sticks out to me.

He plays in the OJHL. He was a Barry Colts draft pick, but he's not going to the OHL route. He's going to play NCAA. Jack McBain, he's a 6'4 centerman, plays with the Toronto Junior Canadians in the OJ. He's won a real nice high-scale player. Rasmus Kopari, who plays in Finland,

a little bit lean. He's a 510, 511, 160 pounds. Really skilled, really skilled player with soft, soft hands that can score. Jared McIsaac is a defenseman for the Halifax Mooseheads. A couple years ago when Halifax had the top two picks. Ben Wally, the VA grew in Jared McIsaac with the top two. Both those players will go probably in the first round this year. Certainly Jared McIsaac will.

Joe Valeno, the exceptional player from a couple of years, go in St. John, who I thought was in a lot of ways buried on a really good St. John Seedogs team last year. This year, I think he's going to probably be out of the top five. We'll see how the season goes. I like Bodewild a lot from the development program. If he would have gone to the OHL probably would have been drafted first overall ahead of Ryan Merkley, who ended up going to Guelph. I like Bode Wilde a lot Who else do I really like in this draft outside of there? I like Akil Thomas from the Niagara Ice Dogs

Watch him play his minor hockey He's like a pit bull on a pork chop type player Evan Bouchard, the London Knights, a really steady, smart defenseman. I remember when London won that's more a couple of years ago in Red Deer and they brought a bunch of extra skaters with them too and Evan Bouchard is skating with him. I'm like, wow, here's a guy the captain of the U-17 team

and can't even make it onto the Memorial Cup squad. Jet Wu out in Moose Jaw, you know, Tim Hunter continues. It's not a great year for the Western League for prospects. Certainly not at the high end, but I would say that, you know, Jet Woo in Moose Jaw as a six-foot defenseman, 200 pounds, real nice. He's like a, if you like, and we just mentioned in Cronwell a second ago, if you like old school defensemen, right,

who will love to hit, then Jet Woo is your guy. So those are a few of them that jump to mind right away for me. I mentioned Benual Olivier grew as well. He's in Halifax. He's a centerman. If we're looking at players like, you know, Deline and Svetnikov and Bokfist and Quentin Hughes and Philip Zedina, all being in that top five mix and those other guys, oh, we should probably throw him Brady Kachuk as well,

who's probably the more talented of the two the two kachuk boys one being in calgary of course those those are the ones that come to mind for me right away but man if you get a chance and if you live in Ontario get a chance to get out there to the ojahel and have a look at jack mcbane this guy this guy's legit he's the he's the real deal so what uh what kind of uh junior hockey stuff are you going to be doing this season are you allowed to talk about that yet uh what time is it has the press release come out yet I would love to be able to, but we're going to be announcing the broadcast schedule soon, and I think along with it we'll be announcing some of the support properties. Right.

But you're going to be doing some stuff this season again. Yeah, yeah. And our coverage begins on November 6th with the Canada Russia series, first game in Moosecha, Western Hockey League next day is in Swift Currents. And I'm not sure when our first junior hockey games. is going to be this year. But maybe by the time this podcast gets up, this will all be public, and you'll say things like,

well, America, how can we didn't say anything on the PDO cast? But yeah, that should be, that should be coming out soon. One player, people always get on me when I start talking about 15-year-olds,

but one player that your audience should probably know about, is a kid, he's in his minor midget year playing with York Simco Express, YSE. I'm not sure if you've seen some of the highlights

on the internet yet, Quinton Byfield. He's like, Lindros, without the nastiness, the way this guy dominates. Just, you know what? Dimitri, and all the good listeners of the PDO cast, take the name Quentin Byfield, write it on a piece of paper, and put it in your back pocket.

Because that's the name you're going to be pulling out in a couple of years, if not at this time next year, and say to yourself, oh, yeah, that long-winded guy on the PDO cast mentioned him once upon a time. Quinton Byfield, play Jorksumco Express Minor Midget. It's kids legit. So, but yeah, you put that paper in your back pocket and then you wash your jeans and all of a sudden you don't have anything to show for it anymore. Maybe not your back by. Stick it in an envelope and stick it in the safe in your basement and just leave it there and pull it out a year from now.

That's fair. I think that quote you had there about people always get on me when I'm talking about 15-year-olds. I think someone's going to pull that out of context, yeah. Yeah, it's always good. The internet's good for that. Man, was I getting roasted this morning on Twitter? I put up that I retweet Upe Boudin, our friend from Sweden,

tweeted out that picture of Anci Coppatar stripping Austin Matthews in front of the net, Matthews hiking it back and stripping the puck under the blue line, heading back up the ice. And so I just put like a nice little like, hey, if you have any kids to play minor hockey, show them this play or show them this sequence. Not saying that, hey, pay attention to Matthews on this

or, hey, pay attention to Copatar on this because really pay attention to both because it's a great play, great checking plays by both players. Right. man the amount of you're a leaf so-and-so and oh Toronto media I put it out there without any comment about Matthews or Copatara and like the level of bile that came back on these tweets to me it's like a harmful little tweet about hey kids here's something to watch and like the nastiness and sexual innuendo that came along with that tweet from the the echo chamber for idiots also known as Twitter sometimes that came. came back to me was striking Dimitri. I'm going to write a devastating op-ed piece of, no, it was just, I couldn't, every time then I got to step back and say like, yeah, man,

people really hate Toronto. Yeah. In the rest of Canada. Yeah. And if that's true, and if it's like that, it's going to be a really tough few years for the rest of Canada, isn't it? It really is. It's going to be very bad.

It's better to just get over those hard feelings and embrace the fact that it's fun hockey to watch. Well, and here's my question about all of it. Normally, we saw this with Ottawa in 2007. We saw this with the Oilers in 2006. To some extent, we've seen this before. We saw this with the Calgary Flames and then went to the Stanley Cup final against Tampa. If the Maple Leafs make it to the Stanley Cup final, I'm going to ask you as a Canadian Dimitri. Canadian hockey fans tend to get behind their remaining hockey team in the playoffs. should they make it to the Stanley Cup final.

It de facto becomes Canada's team. Can you see the rest of Canada getting behind the Maple Leafs, the likes of which Ontario fans got behind the Oilers, got behind the flames, certainly got behind the Senators in 2000, got behind the Vancouver Canucks when they made their Stanley Cup run in 2011. Can you see the rest of Canada getting behind the Maple Leafs, like even Leafs fans got behind.

other Canadian hockey teams because I can't. No, it's going to be much more vitriolic although I would, I mean, definitely with the Oilers and the Flames teams that happened, but I feel like those teams were kind of like more sort of just scrappy good stories.

Like I feel like when the Canucks made the final in 2011 there was some resentment in the rest of Canada about that team. That was a very hateable team though. Even you have to admit that. Yeah. There were some personalities on that team. Yeah.

That made the squad. you know, pretty easy to the test. They were damn fun to watch, though. That's for sure. You bet they were, man. The Siddines at the height of their powers, puck on a string. For sure, man. That was a fun team to watch.

Yeah. There's a lot of jarring, I'll say, jarring personalities on that team. Yeah, I think that's fair. Yeah, it's tough. Whenever you bring up anything involving a Toronto player or the team, the comments devolve into just complete wasteland. And even sometimes, even if you don't even mention Toronto, sometimes the discussion just turns into it.

You should read the comment sections on some of my articles on sportsnet.com. They're pretty hectic. Although I guess wise people say don't read the comments for a reason. I think reading the comments is important though. I do. And just like, you know, checking your Twitter, checking your responses. Because if you're going to, I've always believed this, Dimitri, if you're going to accept the praise, then you have to accept the hate to. You can't have both.

So I have a question for you, Jeff. I notice that you follow 3,300 people on Twitter. I do. I use it as a wire service. So I follow like 250 and it drives me crazy because I have this OCD. I have this like OCD problem where I want to be on top of everything. So I'm like compulsively checking my phone and making sure I read everyone's tweets. I can't even imagine what yours is like. It must be just complete another mayhem.

But I guess you just sort of, you've come to terms of the fact that you're not going to see everything everyone says. But that's totally fine because in the grand scheme of things, you'll see what you need to see. It's all in lists though, right? Like I just go to my, whether it's, I mean, the hockey list, let me just have a look here. The hockey list says 842 members. Okay. All right. That's still a lot, though.

MMA, I've got 66, general sports, 52, news I've got 190, workout 58, music 43, Buddhism, 79, vegan 36, junior hockey 348, HL 42, hockey players, 22, you know, hockey teams, 21, You know, so it's all sort of, it's all very organized. So I can, you know, it's pretty easy to personalize. What I don't understand is, and I've had people block me for this in the news category, why do people get upset when you put them in a list? I don't understand that. Yeah, I don't, I don't, do people get upset about that?

Well, I've had people block me for putting them in lists. Like, oh, don't put me in a list. Like, don't put me in a folder. I don't, can anyone listen? can you please tweet me and let me know why that's because they're like two very specific political follows that I followed until they blocked me just and I have had zero interaction with these people but have blocked me and in their profile is we'll block it put in lists what's the problem with that I've never heard that before that's that's why I was shocked I know

had no idea that was actually a thing I had no clue yeah do you actually um because you also obviously have a lot of followers um do you actually actually um do you actually um actually keep up with your mentions, or do you just like check in every once in a while? I check in. I think it's important because I've learned a lot of things from responses. And generally, I still firmly believe that most people that follow me are smarter than me. And I can only do myself better from reading their perspectives and interacting with them. And I've made some great friends doing that too.

Like friends that'll be with me for life just from, you know, an arbitrary like, hey man, that's a great point. and then that'll start a chain of conversation. But yeah, no, I check dimensions all the time. I think it's kind of a responsibility that I have. Just in case, like, hey, listen, man, I may be effing up too. Right. And if someone's going to call me on it, A, I deserve to be. And B, I might learn from it.

So I don't want to live in that. I'm going to, I've come down off the mountain with these two tablets. And this is, you know, I refuse to be that guy. Right. You know, I refuse to be the guy that puts himself above anyone that I'm interacting with. on Twitter because what's the saying at the end of the game

the king and the pawn go back in the same box and I really believe that that's a good one yeah no I agree as for what we just said about how Twitter can sometimes devolve into a bad place it's it's obviously a great resource and we've I mean you said it yourself

and I completely agree I've met some great people on there and struck up friendships and it's it's good I'm happy I'm happy to exist I'm happy we're on it. You know, every now and then, this was something that I, that I used to do a lot more when I, when I was training in martial arts, like hyper seven days a week. And I do it every now and then. And it's interesting to do it on Twitter. Have an entire day where you accept that everything that happens to you and around you is your fault. And then reflect on your behavior. Like, well, what did I put out in the universe that brought this back? And I find that Twitter is an immediate

way to do that. Like when someone just flames you on Twitter, instead of just like flying off the handle, oh, this guy or this girl's a bad, blah, that or just take a step back and say, well, what did I put out that brought this out of someone? And sure, most times, like, well, that person's just a jerk and wants to get something off their chest and there's probably more to it, but I don't have the time to get into the psychology of that person's head. But I think as an exercise as a human being, I think it's interesting every now and then to just take an entire day, Dimitri, and say, I'm going to act as if everything that happens to me and around me is my fault and adjust my behavior accordingly. I had someone.

There's an easy way to do that. I had someone when I asked for questions for this show, I had someone say, well, Jeff, do a philosophy podcast, and I feel like that you just answered that question. I just do snippets up. You know what? That was my minor at university, so I got to sneak it in somehow. I see my low-ranked Kirkagard impressions. I don't think anyone wants to hear me too much.

much about that. They kind of just want to hear, like, what should the Rangers do with, you know, their fourth line? And should they still go 11-4s in 70? Yes. That's a much value I bring to the world. Very useful topics, indeed. I had someone ask about what books we're reading these days.

Are you reading anything good these days? I just picked up Customs' Coach's book and started reading it yesterday in my chiropractor's office. So I just picked that one up. Um, as far, uh, as far as non-hockey books, right now I'm reading the, uh, the Alan Watts, uh, autobiography. Uh, what else do I have on the go? Uh, the brain that healed itself. Uh, I'm reading, Norman Deutsch, who I think is a genius. Um, what other hockey book? Just finished a red Kelly book. That's about it that I got on the go right now. So, I'm reading the Custin's book as well. I'm almost done. Um,

How is it? I'm 30 pages in. It's really good. And I'm actually, later this week, him and I are going to do a podcast, and we're going to do a bit of a deep dive on it. So that'll be good. I love the way he's structured and he's like that with the opening, the opening chapter on, you know,

having a conversation at Dan Bilesman's house and how you're a coach 24 hours a day. It's a great book right over. I mean, Custin's great. Yeah. He's such a smart guy. He's a fantastic writer. And the book grabs you right away. Just like grabs you by the ankle and says,

come on we're going to go swimming down here now yeah i love it yeah no customs is great and uh the rest of the book is kind of like that too i mean obviously all the different coaches of different styles and personalities and the way they approach their jobs but it's it's great getting that type of insight um two other books i have on the agenda uh we were talking about concussions earlier is uh game change by ken dryden um he takes a swipe at me in the book does he yeah john shannon told me, which is fine, whatever, I don't care. Can and can. Yeah, I haven't, I shouldn't say it because I haven't read it yet.

But apparently there's a moment on, it must have been Hockey Central at Noon, where I was talking to John and I think Scott Morrison. And I'm still very much, I mean, we're all in the camp of getting hit in the head doesn't tickle and isn't good for you. But, I mean, a good friend of mine, Dr. Ali Rendellie, who has worked, you know, numerous times with Dr. Charles Tater. Actually, Dr. Charles Tater, last time I let her cut open skulls for brain surgery. It's a great story that I'll bore you with one day, Dimitri.

You know, as always, you know, gone out of a way to point out, like, well, hold on a second here. There is still not that A to B causal relationship yet. We strongly believe there is, right? And I know the screams of, this is, you know, the tobacco industry argument for so many years. But she keeps saying, we're just not there yet. I think that might have been the point that I was trying to make because it's the only

point that I make about this. And really the point is I'm not a doctor and I don't know. But I think that, and again, I haven't read the book yet, but Johnny was telling me that yeah, it takes a good swipe at us. Oh, here they are towing the NHL line. I'm like, oh, geez. Well, I think the fact that we're having just a discussion to begin with is a crucial first step, right?

Even if you're not entirely, you know, convinced on the relationships or how certain things are, like the fact that we're talking about it is good. I have like a minute like like like, like, the majority of people listening to this podcast, and I suspect you as well, the strong belief that repeated, you know, hits to the head can lead to, you know, CTE and all sorts of degenerative brain diseases that if you didn't get hit in the head, you might not otherwise suffer from. I believe that. I don't know that, but I believe that. And I've always maintained this. You know, the great unspoken, element of concussions is the speed of the game. Which we don't want to talk about. And I've always said, and I'm not sure if I've talked to you about it,

then I've brought up this example before. If I told you, because in 2005, not Lockout in the whole 2006 comes around, the league has redone itself and it's fly zone and guys are 35 miles a night. It's crazy fast NHL right now. Like there are going to be collisions. There are still 10 players on the ice. They are unimpeded.

They cannot be slowed down. you know, strict enforcement on hooking, on slowing players down is out of the vocabulary. Let them roam free and let them roam fast. If I told you, Dmitri, you could only park your car while you're traveling 55 miles an hour. Eventually, you might learn how to do it, but you'd smash a lot of cars along the way. Here's my question. if I said to you Dimitri

you're the you're the NHL commissioner and you've told me that you want this game to be played at 30 miles an hour and I said to you okay we can get there but it's going to cost you 2,000 concussions because nothing exists in a vacuum

there's always a law of unintended consequence there will be more concussions because guys are going so fast at different heights in a physical game. Concussions are a reality. It will happen. If I said to you, Dimicchi, we can get it so it's 30 miles an hour, but it's going to cost you 2,500 concussions.

Would you say let's do it? Because the NHL has. Yeah. Yeah, that's just the nature of the beast. There's going to be stuff that happens. It's part of the game. I think that's why people are so fervent in their beliefs that fighting shouldn't be in the game because I feel like that's the type of head trauma that is

avoidable. Yeah, and I completely agree with that. But we never want to talk about how the speed is affecting concussions because we all love the speed. Wow, look how fast Connor McDavid is going. Yeah. But the thing is, that genie's out of the bottle now. Yeah.

And now we have to deal with it. And I think that if we're going to have this open conversation about concussions, that has to be on the table. Yeah. If we really want to get to the bottom. Yeah. We really want to get to the bottom of this thing. Now, one of the ways we can look to address it is do we start taking players off the ice?

Is it a four-on-four game? Right? I don't think we're going to make the rinks any bigger. I don't think there's any financial appetite for owners to do that, to retrofit and spend millions of dollars doing that and take seats out of the building. I don't think the appetite is there. But do we get to a place where if we can't make the rinks bigger, we're taking players off the ice? Are we making the season shorter? Well, the minute the players signed off on linkage,

There's salaries to revenues. There's no way you're taking games off the table. There's not a chance. I think all these elements need to go into this conversation, but why do we refuse to talk about how the speed of the game is leading to more concussions at the same time? It's because we love it. Yes.

We say we love it so much. We don't want that. Oh, look at those games in the 80s. Oh, look how slow in the hooking and the holding. Not to say that concussions didn't happen then, but I would submit they didn't happen at the alarming rate that they happen now. Now, the flip side of that argument is, well, they're just not diagnosed. And that's probably legitimate, too.

And it still was a much more violent game, too. But if you want to get, if you want to make this thing, I can't think of anything that was made faster and safer. Like, when you increase the speed limit on any street, there are more accidents. Yeah. That's just a reality. Why do we think that we can continue to make the game fast? faster and still keep it safe and not more dangerous. Don't the two necessitate one another faster equals more dangerous.

What am I missing here? No, you're raising some good points. And I think it's a bit of an uncomfortable subject because, you know, you don't want to feel guilty about enjoying what makes hockey such an entertaining, beautiful product. But it does have obviously negative consequences after you reach a certain level. So I don't know what the right answer is. I agree with you.

Like you want to get rid of like the unnecessary ones. Like the fighting ones are the obvious ones. Yeah. Right? But that represents something pretty small. And the one thing that, you know, the Dr. Rendellie would always tell me, she said, you know,

you hockey guys are stupid. I said, well, I know that, but why do you think so? And she said, I treat more people for concussions to get hit in the stomach than I do. They get hit in the head.

You guys think that it's just getting hit in the head that makes concussions. I mean, I'm sure there are people right now listening to this podcast that said, yeah, man, you know what? I got hit from my, I got hit in my back and I got a concussion. Or, you know, I got punched in the stomach and I got a concussion.

All it has to happen is your brain needs to hit your skull. And that's not, I mean, the getting hit in the head is an obvious one. But it's all contact that can produce concussions. Yeah. And the big ones getting hit, and Dr. Minnally would always say, like, man, I see so many people that get hit in the stomach and they have a concussion. You guys just think it's getting hit in the head, just the obvious ones. Yeah, well, another book,

I'm excited to read. Have you heard about this Sean Avery's memoirs? Yeah. So my good buddy, Frank Sarajevoi, read it already, and he did a bit of a review. And he says it's worthwhile. I mean, it's very Sean Avery. It's what you'd expect. But there's some good anecdotes in there.

All right. I got to pull the curtain back a little bit. When he first started to write this book, okay, there was a few people that always asked me because he reached out to me on Twitter. Because I was always someone that liked Sean Avery when he played. I know I was in a minority at that point. But I was always someone, I was talking to his agent Pat Morris about this. You're the only guy who will defend this guy.

I'm like, I know, I'm out here on an island, Pat. And we had a correspondence about the books. I knew there was coming. I haven't started it yet. But I've got a copy of it sitting on my desk at work. And I'm looking for it. I just sort of an interesting piece was at the New York Times. I just did a piece.

I can't remember. I just read it last night before bed. But Sean, Sean to me is, I mean, obviously, one of the most interesting characters that the NHL has ever seen. And whether you like him or whether you don't like him, whether you like what he did on the ice,

what he represented and all that, I think the idea that the NHL, you know, is a league that needs Sean Avery, needs Sean Avery's is a discussion that that merits some conversation. Again, to the point about this is entertainment. And I think Sean understood that more than anybody else. And if you want to talk about, you know, rallying against quote unquote traditional hockey culture, Avery does that.

Yeah. Hard. Like at every single level growing up too. Like I don't want to be part of this. Yeah. No, I don't need to put a blindfold on in March. You know, I'm still a human being here. Now, was he the nicest guy to people on the ice, to people on his team?

Well, no. No one makes it through their NHL career necessarily without, you know, having some enemies or doing some questionable things. But I think that Sean has a, in my mind, a refreshing perspective on what the balance is between being a player and being your own person at the same time. So I think a lot of players, I think a lot of players blur it too much, and I think Sean keeps it distinct. Yeah.

I'm still, I'm still a human being here. Yeah, I'm firmly in the camp that the league does need more Sean Avery types. Just like, in terms of the personality and the character, because if the game really is going to grow and reach a larger audience, you sort of need that type of new. on so it's not just a bunch of robots because regardless of how good they are like how physically capable they are there is a certain level of intrigue that is missing right now in the league that I'd like to see more so I think we all would all of us but no matter what the position is I think that I think we'd all like to see people that with personalities that we can that we can stick to you know

this idea of oh you know he does his talking on the ice oh man that's so boring now that's great It's wonderful to watch them on it. But, you know, let these. It's funny, too, because, I mean, you've hung out with all these guys. We all know hockey players. You know, how profoundly different are they away from the cameras? It's insane. And, I mean, you see why, right?

Because as soon as a player says anything that's remotely controversial, he gets torn into shreds. And it's like, why would you do that one? You can just give a cliched answer. But it's kind of like, it's a deeper rooted problem than just the players themselves not having personality. they all do to varying degrees. It's sort of this kind of culture we've built around them that doesn't support that.

And I think we need to change that. And doesn't encourage it. No, I agree. I agree. All right, Jeff, we could talk for hours here, but I know you got to get going. You got life stuff to do.

Yes. I got to go find podcasts to be part of us now. Well, I'm glad you took the time to come on this one, man. And you're welcome to come back on and chat whenever you like. Dude, man. I'm on Mount Rushmore for the podcast. So I've got to come on and defend my turf here.

And yeah, not that I'm, you know, paid to do this, but yeah, check out Customs' book on coaches. It's excellent. Absolutely. It's a really good read. Highly recommend it. All right, Jeff. We'll chat soon.

All right. Thanks, Dimitio. I have going. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.