The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 204: We Have a Trade to Announce

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

Chris Johnston joins the show to discuss the three-team trade that took over the hockey world this past weekend, and what the next dominos to fall will be. Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. The Hockey PDOCast is brought to you by Get Down BP, which brings people together with a goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name's Dimitri Filippovich, and joining me is my good buddy, Chris Johnson.

Chris, what's going on, man? Not too much, man. I would be remiss if I didn't start by wishing you a happy birthday, because I know Alex Pruitt did the same for me when he was on with you earlier this month. So we're Libra's at arms. I guess you're, oh, no, you're not a Libra. No, I'm a Scorpio. Um, okay. Which I'm surprised you didn't know it. I feel like whenever I meet someone, they, they point that out.

I feel like I have the traits of a Scorpio, whatever that means. I'm, I'm definitely a Libra, so there's something to that. Yeah, well, we still get along. I'm glad you haven't forgotten about us since, uh, since receiving your call up to the big leagues with, uh, the hockey night in Canada promotion. But then again, I mean, instead of my birthday, what kind of a monster would you be to say no to me today? Exactly. I'll never say no to you. Never forget where you came from.

I appreciate that, CJ. We'll love you here. Okay, let's get right into the Matt Dushan trade because it's been, I guess, 48 hours or so now since it happened. And I'm glad we gave it a bit of extra time to marinate. You know, obviously in the, it's 2017 and in the Twitter culture, you want to be the person who comes up with the wittiest takeaway or response as soon as something happens. But I think there's something to be said for, you know, reading as much as. as you can about it and giving it some thought

because there's a lot of more nuance to it than may initially appear. And I don't know, I guess a good place to start with this is with the Ottawa Senator's side of things just because we're going with the old adage that the team that gets the best player in the trade is the one that wins it.

What do you think about this from the Senators' perspective? Well, it's pretty clear that the price tag here was dictated by the Senators pretty as serious desire to get Matthew Shane. You know, I think that but with a player of his name value that's been on the trade market, as long as he has, there were a lot of teams that had varying levels of interest,

but Ottawa and Pierre Dorian specifically were very fixated on getting him. And, you know, they've paid a pretty high premium, I think, to do so. You know, for them, they were pretty happy not to have to give up what they view as any of their best prospects in order to land Matt Dushain. But, you know, whether or not this is a success, from the senator's side is now banking all on Duchenne in a couple ways. I mean, his performance this season immediately is obvious, but also whether they're able to sign him to a long-term extension

because, you know, he's got them in a pretty interesting negotiating place already, just knowing that they had to give up these assets to get them, and that, you know, he isn't unrestricted for age in the summer 2019. Right. Yeah, he's not going to sneak out of the radar. I mean, I guess at all for them and for this entire trade, really, what hinges is is Matt Duchenne an upgrade over Calters and if so is the difference between the two of them worth, you know, essentially two first round picks and a third. And I don't know, from the player perspective, I like Dushain quite a bit more as a talent. You know, we'll get into this when we discuss the predator's side of things in a couple minutes, but he's obviously younger, he plays faster, he's more dynamic offensively, and that's all stuff the senators need an injection of in their lineup.

But, you know, I think you wrote about this a bit and it came up again in a lot of pieces I read on the trade. And there's also this element of, you know, flexibility. It provides the senators a little bit. It buys them that extra year. And, you know, if they regress really hard and fall off the map completely, they can presumably flip Duchenne sometime between now and next year's trade deadline again before he expires. And it also lines up perfectly with his contract. It lines up perfectly with Eric Carlson's expiring after next season.

And obviously that's going to be a big, you know, a big line of delineation for the senators and determining where they're going in the future. So, you know, I guess from that perspective, financially it also makes a lot of sense for the senators beyond just the on-ice perspective. Well, and, you know, Matthew Shane's an interesting player just in his own right. I mean, there's, I find just from a few people I speak with it, there's a pretty big divide and opinion on what he is and whether he is, you know, a first line center. Certainly the senators believe that.

I think Guy Bouchet has been very high on Duchenne, and that helped make the trade easier for his GM to make, knowing that the coach was willing to deploy him in a way that kind of makes this make sense from their perspective. But, you know, there are some out there that had their doubts about whether, you know, he truly is someone that you want to use in that position. And I think we're going to find out a little bit more because Ottawa is highly incentivized to do so. And, you know, he ticks some of the boxes.

He's the NHL's best face-off man. If you look at the last three seasons combined, which is obviously part of the job. But, you know, it's going to be kind of, I'm just fascinated to see how it turns out. I mean, it's one of the, you know, thanks to David Poy, we've had a few interesting trades the last few seasons in a league where we don't tend to see a ton. But I do think that it's kind of a point we draw a line and now we can watch what happens and, you know, see how it goes.

But to me, it's still a bit of a gamble by Ottawa, but it makes sense to do so. I mean, we, Eric Carlson might be the number one PDO cast friendly player. in the league. So, you know, still having him, hopefully, in his prime. I mean, I think it's still a little early to see, you know, what he's going to be post that ankle injury you had last year. He's had, you know, a good start, but, you know, it's hard to know if he can log the minutes. He's logged the last number of seasons and be as productive of tilting the ice as he has in the past. And, you know, while you have a player like that, it makes sense to me to try to win. And, you know, in Ottawa's case, they've got to do so under certain budget restraints. And, you know,

I think that that played an aspect into what went on in with this trade as well. Yeah, definitely love Eric Carlson. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention my boy, Jean-Franfrancalfa Rubé as the P.D.O.Cast, number one, darling. The other day, I was actually tweeting about him and the Rockford Icehogs, a HL affiliate of the Chicago Blackhawks account tweeted at me. And I'm almost positive it was actually Brubay himself tweeting from that account. But I got to mention him.

So when I was thinking about this trade from a winners and losers' perspective, which is how we tend to do this stuff. Is Matthew Sheen the biggest winner of this trade out of all the teams and players involved? I think so. I mean, look, this guy was miserable, and he only loosely hit it. I mean, we saw his picture on the opening day of training camp. You know, those tend to be like the promotional shots. Look slightly distraught.

And he looked like, man, someone had shot his dog. And, you know, look, part of that was that there was some discussion, you know, with Matthew Shane and his agent Paprisana, about whether he should even report to training camp. And, you know, ultimately they decided it was better to keep trying to play by the rules and, you know,

wait this thing out and have a decent start to the year. So I think, you know, to go almost a year from requesting a trade and, you know, last year playing on one of the worst teams of the salary cap era and, you know, to still then find yourself in that reality. I mean, to get this new lease on life is huge for him.

And, you know, I think that perhaps there's something to be said that the change of scenery might help his game as well because he didn't have a very good individual season last year with the avalanches. He's been off to a good start this season. But, you know, I think that he's going to see a bump in roll, a bump in minutes. And, you know, probably just with his own headspace is probably in a better position to succeed now that he's been moved. Yeah. I mean, yeah, we don't want to get into the business of psychoanalysis too much, but it's pretty clear that, you know, the past year. or so haven't been very fun for him. And as everyone knows, if you're not in a work setting that, you know, you're enjoying,

it can sometimes affect your performance. And, you know, for him especially when I was looking at this from a numbers perspective, like what really stands out is how much Kyle Taurus benefited from just sharing the ice with Eric Carlson a lot of the time. You know, when we often think about player performance intertwined and we think about, you know, with or with all your numbers. and stuff like that. We typically think of defense partners,

and then we think of forward lines, and we never really think of the forward defense combinations, and it makes sense. I mean, that's their top center and their top defensemen, and they both play a lot, so they share the ice lot. But I believe it was like just under 50% of tourists,

his 5-on-5 ice time over the past four or five years. We're all with Eric Carlson, and, you know, if Eushain gets a heavy dose of that as well, I imagine, you know, he'll be happier, and the senators will be happier with his individual production as well. exactly and look they're probably going to share a power play unit i would i would think as well uh given that that carlson at times plays almost the entire power play so you know that there should be an opportunity there for him to boost his production and every player likes that especially a guy

a year and a half out from unrestricted for agency uh you know if he has a big shot forward here and points and gets back to where he was a couple years ago i mean it's it's going to be good for his bank account and everything else so you know this he probably is the biggest winner you know to be And then, you know, it's interesting because you have two teams, very different teams, but built in their eyes to sort of win now. And that's, I think, what made this trade come together in the predators and the senators. But, you know, even if they go on and win, I don't think anyone is probably happier right now than Matthew Shane just to put on a different jersey and have a different work environment. Okay, so let's switch gears now to talk about those predators. Yeah, I mean, Dave Poyle, really coming through for us.

here in the media with providing us with some stories and some stuff to talk about. It's amazing, especially that most of this stuff is just like good old-fashioned, quote-unquote, hockey trades where it's like teams actually, like players move of consequence moving and it being trades that, you know, you can make reason of for both teams, like especially with the, you know, with the Ryan Johansson, Seth Jones trade from the past. Yeah. And this one. And so it's kind of cool to see because as you mentioned, we don't typically see too much of that in

NHL, particularly with the monkey wrench that the hard salary cap throws into things and making it work for everyone. So the fact that Dave Poil keeps doing this is he's one of the big winners in my mind. Well, and the fact that he's been in NHL GM for almost 40 years, you don't do that without having a lot of quote-unquote hockey qualities. And let's face it, one of those qualities is sort of loyalty and that idea of maybe being a little bit almost conservative in your approach. And, you know, trading Shea Weber back when he traded Weber for Suban. kind of ran a little bit counterculture to what the sport is, I think, just because, you know, Weber was the captain there and, you know,

was a big part of the initial rise of that franchise from, you know, it's sort of mediocre position when he was drafted. And, you know, that trade made a lot of sense for them on a cap perspective and a whole host of other reasons. And then he falls that up with Jones for Johansson. And, you know, I don't think they had any issue with Jones. They just felt that they could get by without him, that their blue line was strong enough.

and I think with what we've seen since, they've been proven right given that they went to the Stanley Cup last year and are still in that position. And, you know, this is kind of borne again out of some honest self-assessment that they needed a little bit more down the middle that Johanssen wouldn't be enough with what they had, even with the Nick Benino signing in the offseason. And, you know, it's hard to fault them on this.

Even if we were in agreement that Kyle Turris isn't Matthew Shane, that he's not as impactful, he is a little bit older. You know, they've had to extend him or chosen to extend him for six years beyond this one as part of this deal. I mean, to me, this sets them up better to compete when they get into the playoffs again. And, you know, it's too bad. We didn't get to see last year Stanley Cup without Ryan Johansson in it. Right.

Just because I'm just curious how it might have went. I mean, clearly Pittsburgh still would have an advantage going head to head with Johansen and Taurus and having Crosby and Malcon. But, you know, the margins would be. be much thinner with that kind of, you know, set up. And, you know, to me, this makes sense for David Poyle. I mean, once you start down this path and you're seeing, you know, a positive results on the ice and, you know, that team getting so close to a cup and being as experienced as he is and knowing he doesn't know how many years he's got left,

I mean, it's, they've got a window and, you know, I think he did well. I mean, essentially his choice in this whole deal was, you know, he was after Dushain in the summer. and even last year before the deadline. But he didn't feel like he could take any more today pieces away from his blue line and still have his team be as good as it is. So, you know, his choice was, you know, being able to deal some futures to get, you know, Matthew Shane Light and Kyle Turris in this case. And, you know, that's kind of the decision he made.

And, you know, I think that you can probably make an argument that, you know, if he traded him in Métia Seco, just to throw one name out there and got Matthew Shane, that, you know, maybe on the, on the, the grand scheme that doesn't help them be better than they are. So, you know, I, I like this deal for the Predators as well. You know, it's one of these ones, honestly, and it's not just sitting on the fence. I kind of like it for everybody. I think Ottawa took the biggest risk of the three teams.

But, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to really nitpick with Nashville. I mean, unless Kyle Torres is a total disaster there, but, you know, I still think at age 28, he's got enough to give in a second-line center position that, you know, he's not going to make you regret this. Yeah, that's the thing with Taurus. You know, I actually like him quite a bit as a player, and I think he's a very, very solid second center. The six years is slightly concerning, just because I think he will be 29 by the time that a contract kicks in,

and we know how sometimes guys' performance can deteriorate into their early 30s. But, I mean, that's sort of the price of doing business here, and at the $6 million cap hit, it's evidently reasonable. And listen, I mean, to Dave Boyle's credit, he sort of put himself in this position of luxury, where with some of the other great team-friendly contracts they've signed over the years, they can now start taking calculated risks like this. And that's an awesome place to be in as a GM.

And you know, you mentioned this, but just looking at this team, I mean, and the result of this trade, they basically just added Kyle Turus without subtracting anything off of their 2017-18 roster. I know, I know Sam Gerard played a couple games for them, but when they're healthy, you presume he won't be a part of this year's team. and so, you know, a team that we already liked and thought should, you know, once again, have cup aspirations adding a player of that magnitude without subtracting anything is, it's pretty hard to get too down on it from that perspective.

Well, and let's not forget, they didn't give up their first round pick in the 2018 draft in this deal. And, you know, I'm led to believe that they're still willing to trade that at some point before this deadline to add further. So, you know, it's, you know, maybe Gerard will make them regret this. I know he was a player they really liked and was, you know, one that the avalanche coveted pretty heavily. But, you know, that's kind of part of this. And they still do have a few other, you know, well-touted young defensemen in their pipeline.

So, you know, I think that they felt that they could take that risk to add, you know, for the next couple of years to keep that, you know, what should be, you know, I think it's, if this year doesn't work out their way, I still like their team for next year. They don't have that many question marks in, you know, the next few years, really, to have a team that. could win and you know that's that's really all you can do is a GM because at some point you know luck does play into this when you get into the playoffs and you just have to kind of build the team that has the best chance to survive the bounces of the game yeah yeah players are in a position to succeed and be one of those teams um yeah do you do you do gather that Dave poyle I guess he was trying pretty hard to actually be just oh you know him and the abs as dance partners and getting Matthew Sheen himself, but I imagine that, you know, what the abs were looking for and Dushain's

contract uncertainty, I guess you can put it, were sort of what threw him off and got Ottawa into this in the first place. Well, what changed here really, the trade change from the avalanche standpoint. I mean, initially they were looking for quality in this deal. You know, they wanted a top four defensemen today plus a prospect and a draft pick was the going rate, you know, starting last January when they really began having talks on Matthew Shane. And I think over time, as they went through the various suitors, including one-on-one with Ottawa, one-on-one with Colorado, I know Columbus made a pretty strong pitch in the summer. I believe there were some talks with Carolina,

but the hurricanes decided it didn't make sense to remove one of their D and get a player that could be UFA in 18 months. You know, there was other teams. I heard the Rangers kicked around. I think Calgary had some conversations. I mean, they went down the laundry list of the possibilities and realized that the quality wasn't going to be what they thought was worth it. And that's where Joe Sackick was taking a lot of heat is that, you know, what's he waiting for? He's not going to get a better deal. And what they ended up getting was quantity.

And I think once that became a possibility, once they were dealing with two teams that felt like they could win, that they could give up future assets to try to get better today, that that that was a key to unlocking this deal. And, you know, from Nashville's perspective, I really don't think that they have. ever thought that they could give up one of their top 4D. And, you know, when they were talking in the summer with the avalanche, you know, I believe that that was the price that they were trying to pry and at home away from them. And, you know, they didn't want to give up Josie or Ryan Ellis even who's been out injured or P.K. Suban.

And, you know, if Colorado wasn't going to move off that, I mean, they just couldn't make that one-for-one deal. They didn't think it made sense to take away one of those players just to get through, Shane. But, you know, there was some creativity involved. them, I think from Colorado's aspect, the willingness to sort of change their price and, you know, basically get all future assets plus Andrew Hammond's contract, you know, that allowed this to happen. And, you know, you can understand Joe Sackick's thinking. I mean, now he's got six prospects or picks out of this deal that those can turn into other trades. You know, they don't all have to be a lottery tickets for the avalanche organization. And, you know, I think given how long this dragged on and

And the fact that he tried so many avenues and failed with teams in a one-for-one swap. You know, it's kind of a creative way to get what you need out of the deal and, you know, still get this thing done. Yeah. Yeah, well, and you know what? The impressive thing about this Predator's team is, listen, C.J. I'm 26 years old today, so I'm old enough to remember the David Legwant years. And there was a long time there where, you know, they had the impressive blue line. and it was up front it was incredibly thin and I imagined that you know as someone who's been in the game for a long time and you know he was running this team since the beginning I imagine Dave Poel also really just kind of sort of lusted for lack of a better word over you know getting some of this center depth and having this type of talent up front and then now all of a sudden you look at this team and it's remarkable the facelift they've had as a as an organization over the past couple years with a new

coach and the new players and, you know, obviously last year's cup run and sort of the national audience realizing how fun of a hockey market Nashville is. And all of a sudden, now you have this incredibly dynamic, fast team that can throw a bunch of different looks at you in a super deep. And I don't know, I just really like this Predators team. I hope that they're healthy, get healthier as the year goes along because the West is pretty wide open right now. And I feel like they could once again make some serious noise. Well, getting Philip Forsberg, for Martin Erat helped. That's for sure. That's a good start. You know, it's given them

the kind of dynamic scoring touch that I don't know if they ever had. I mean, I know they had Paul Korea late in his career, but Peter Forsberg obviously, you know, on one of his final years when they made a big pitch for him. But, you know, to get a player that young that can score, you know, Victor

Arvidsons, you know, a pretty useful winger for them. I mean, they do. They have a lot more firepower than probably at any previous point in their history. I remember the night that they made that deal to get Ryan Johansson that David Poil was saying in the history of their franchise, which I believe was

somewhere around 20 years at that point, that they'd never had a centerman, basically a true first-line center like Ryan Johansson. And look, he's produced pretty well. I know Ryan Johansson has some doubters out there or given the way his tenure went in Columbus that maybe people

didn't believe in him so much. But this is a pretty good way to build up your team when you're not drafting that center. I mean, that's the tough part. I mean, that's the sort of eternal question, a team like Montreal faces right now is how do they ever address that weakness and still have a competitive team unless they get lucky in the lottery? And, you know, it hasn't happened for them just yet. And, you know, Nashville's found a different way around it.

It kind of reminds you a little bit what Dallas was able to do and getting Jason Spets at Tyler Say again in deals after Jim Nill took over that team. But, you know, it's a tough question for those that don't have it. Now I do think that they should have legitimate ambitions. I mean, they would have had them anyway. But going into most series, they're not going to be giving up too much, if anything, at center. And given how strong their blue line is, and if the goaltending holds up, well, then they definitely have the ability to be back there in June.

And I don't think there's a hockey writer or hockey fan out there other than those that care about one team that wouldn't mind seeing them make another run at it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so finally, the Colorado Alabama, launch perspective here. I'm not going to list all the assets they got because this could go on all night. But they basically, I made this joke on Twitter, but they pretty much got an asset for every single extra month that they waited to make this trade since last year's trade deadline. And you know what? Credit to Joe Sackick, because it was very easy to make a lot of jokes

and to be critical and wonder sort of what they were waiting for and if they were sabotage, this deal and if they were ruining Matt Duchyne's trade value by waiting and, you know, dragging on this sort of miserable process for both parties. And I guess he ultimately knew what he was doing and because it worked out pretty well for the album

and it's just accruing all of these various assets so they can now either use themselves or flip down the road and it's a pretty good sort of start. I mean, you know, it's not starting the rebuild because they've been doing this for a few years now, but it definitely helps expedite it a little bit, I feel like. Oh,

Sure. And, you know, they really like Gerard. I mean, look, he's going to play the first game Friday in Stockholm for the avalanche. I think that'll be a six game. And, you know, because they still have the option to send him back to the QMJL. But, you know, all the indications are he's going straight in the lineup and likely there to stay unless he gives them any reason to believe that he can't handle that role. And, you know, now they've they've accrued more draft picks, which is what I think you have to do. I mean, look, it seems to be essential to every sort of tear it down. rebuild is that you need to be adding a ton of prospects to your pipeline. You're not going to hit on them all. But getting players that can push up and fill roles is usually how good teams become great. And they're better positioned to do that now. And this was going to be a tough deal to make. I mean, I think Matthew Shane meant a lot to the avalanche organization going back to when he was drafted third overall. That is usually tough to recoup. You know, he at that one point was pointed to is the hope for the future of the better future. And that avalanche team, you know, saved for one really good year under Patrick Waugh

where they raised some hopes, you know, never really delivered on that promise. So, you know, it's tough to get a lot back for that asset or as much as he means to you, I think. You know, especially given that Duchenne's 26, that there's some of those questions, as I mentioned out there, that not every person believes that he's, you know, the sort of guy you can slot in at number one center and feel good about how you're doing at that position. And given those constraints and the fact that the whole world knew that he wanted out and that he was miserable and that the team last year was terrible, I think that this is a pretty good outcome for the Aves.

Certainly a lot more than they got for Ryan O'Reilly in the deal that they had to make with Buffalo a couple years ago when he was entering the last season of his contract. But their patience paid off here. I don't know if that's blind luck or whatever. cascading circumstances. You know, the one thing I don't know in, you know, trying to do some reporting on this trade is I don't know who got it to the third team trade. You know, like who, how that sort of evolved precisely because, you know, from afar, it does look at that.

That was the key, the fact that they had two teams that were willing to give up future assets for current ones. And then you had Ottawa, you know, really since September, shopping tourists around to everybody who had listened. And I think that that clearly was the breakthrough to get all three teams to the table. But, you know, that worked that well for the avalanche because, you know, as time went on, I would say they were less likely to get that quality they were looking for in a one-for-one kind of trade just because he's getting closer to free agency and all those things. I mean, he was arguably more valuable as a trade chip before last year's deadline when any acquiring team could at least be confident you'd have them for potentially three playoff runs

before he was going to be coming an unrestricted free agent before he had to be resigned. But, you know, I think they did well here. And it worked out pretty well for Joe Sackick. And, you know, maybe some that were hard on him can, we'll have to eat some crow over this one. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, is as clear as it was that, you know, there wasn't going to be a resolution where Dushain and the Aves, you know, made up and Dushain would be there for the rest of his career. Like, it was pretty clear this trade was going to happen eventually. I guess the, they could operate from a position of Poush. just because they did have that extra year on Dushain.

So it wasn't like, you know, there was this ultimatum to move him by this deadline or they wouldn't get anything for him. And ultimately, Dushan is also a very good player. So there's a demand, of course, in the league. So, but he cashed in on that. And, you know, this is exactly the type of package that a team that's in their position should be going for. I think what stands out for me with the abs now is, you know, if you spin this forward

and wonder about what this team's going to look like in the years to come, it's this sort of financial flexibility. and, you know, there's a couple of things bolted down there. There's, you know, there's Gabe Lanneskog and Nate McKinnon and Eric Johnson and Tyson-Berry, but pretty much beyond that, everyone is gone, or at least their contracts expire in the next couple seasons. And that can be a good or bad thing, obviously, depending on how you use that money and how you fill those rosters. But for now, there does seem like there's a bit of sort of hope just because anything can really happen. and you've got this kind of blank canvas

and you can just imagine how it could come together if everything works out well. Well, and if they get a good bounce of lottery ball in the right draft, I mean, that could change everything to one more impact player, maybe their own unquestioned first-line center. You know, if they get an Austin Matthews type player or something in the future draft in the next few years, you know, that could be the last sort of piece that profiles them

to where they need to get back to being. And, you know, an underrated kind of aspect of this trade that I haven't seen discussed too much is, you know, it's kind of an interesting dynamic that's emerged with Taurus and the senators in the wake of this happening. And, you know, perhaps one of the surprising parts of all this for me is that we got to this point and Taurus is moving on from Ottawa just because, you know, having been covering that team daily

during the playoffs last year during their run and seeing how valuable he was to it and how important he was in the community, a lot of stories coming out after he scored an overtime goal against the Rangers and went straight to it. a banquet for a kids handicapped kids program locally in Ottawa that he's works with that I'm just kind of

surprised that he didn't get an extension there that you know he was the player that they ended up moving good thing for all of us that like to see trades because it wouldn't have wouldn't have probably happened if there wasn't that dynamic out there but you know he seemed like the perfect fit on that team

in that community and you know something kind of went to ride because you have Pierre Dorian talking at the Matthew Shane's welcome press conference that, you know, kind of saying, I think, with some sour grapes said that six-year extension was never something that the senators felt Kyle was willing to do with them. And, you know, he countered on his media availability saying that, well, the Ottawa never offered a six-year deal. And, you know, it's sort of a, I guess it gets overshadowed by everything else going on. But, you know, I would have, if we were doing a PDO cast a month ago,

or maybe a little longer, because, you know, his name was already out there by end of September. but in the summer, you know, I would have guessed that he was a good candidate to sign a long extension in Ottawa. And, you know, I guess he moves on and we'll see if he wins a cup in Nashville. Yeah, yeah. I think I read those comments where he was asked himself, like, why, how this extension came together so quickly with Nashville and why that didn't happen in Ottawa. And he basically, you know, he didn't mince his words. He just said that it was never really on the table from the senator's perspective. So I guess that settles that.

But, you know, fun trade all around. I agree with you. It sounds like we're sort of riding the fence, but I really don't think we are. I mean, it seems like all three teams improved in terms of what they're looking for, how they fancy themselves at this point in time as a franchise. And it's intriguing at the very least from all three perspectives. So I'm kind of curious to see looking back at it in hindsight in the years to come what we think of it. CJ, let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor,

and we'll pick up the PDOCAST on the other side of things. Before we get back to their conversation with CJ, let's chat a bit about the lovely sponsors that make bringing this show to you possible. Buying tickets to sporting events and concerts can be time-consuming and complicated, but it doesn't need to be, because there's a better, simpler way to do it, and that's with Seekek. And that's because they really do all the heavy lifting for you. They scour the web, comparing multiple ticket sites, finding the best deals out there for you. Then they even take it a step further by grading those deals based on value for you with an easily digestible color-coded system so that you know what to pick. And you can rest assured knowing that what you're paying for,

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who sent me a picture of himself with the Flyers game over the weekend. He seemed to be having a blast, and you could be too. The only problem is that he then had to watch the Flyers, and I can't imagine that was good for his blood pressure. You're probably thinking, Demetri, what does that have to do with anything? Well, loyal listener,

brand synergy because the PDOcast also has a new sponsor and Get Down PD who are trying to bring everyone together with the goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way. The reality is that anyone can develop high blood pressure and in fact 7.5 million Canadians live with hypertension every day alone so it's a real thing to join the community and learn more about it go to get downpbp.ca and get started. Now let's get back to Chris Johnson. All right. So before we get out of here let's talk a bit about sort of what we can look forward to now because it feels like this was the big

sort of domino to fall and we were all waiting for this trade to happen what what do you think is the next thing that we're going to all be sort of shifting our attention to or focusing on or which which teams are going to kind of start feeling the pressure to get feisty and sort of get the itchy trigger fingers to make a trade themselves well it's hard to not think that john taveris is going to at some point become the focal point of the conversation around the league. And, you know, it's been a bit under the radar,

I think because at this point, John Tavares hasn't indicated an unwillingness to sign with the Islanders, so there's still some hope from the organization's perspective that, you know, he'll be signing a long-term deal and sticking around, you know, if they can sell them on the future that they have for the franchise, you know, off the ice, probably even more importantly so than on the ice. But that will be, I don't know when that, that's going to erupt, but that volcano is simmering, you know, quietly beneath the surface right now.

You know, in terms of other players that could be on the move, I think Evander Kane is an interesting name that will probably take on a little bit more prominence as we go along here. And, you know, I also look at a team like Columbus, you know, which is probably the team that was most interested in Matthew Shane other than Ottawa and Nashville and, you know, wasn't able to get anything done. And I wonder what they're going to do because they're off to a strong start themselves. I think that they have reason to believe that they are at least a small sea contender in the Eastern Conference at this point and probably even a little bit more than that. And they clearly feel that they have some needs at Center Ice, you know, if they can find the right deal. So I don't think that this is the end of the possibility of big trades.

But, you know, it's almost like everyone has to take a collective breath. because I don't see anybody moving in the next month. I mean, you never know. You could be surprised, but it doesn't seem as though there's as pressing of a situation as you had with both Torres and D'Shaun, with their former teams, to sort of create the conditions to make that kind of move here in the short term. So I'm glad you brought up John Tavares, because I don't know if this would necessarily ultimately change his decision to resign or the Islander's decision to try and get something for him if they get the few. feeling that he's going to walk before the deadline. But one thing I've really been fascinated by as a development over the past couple weeks

has been the emergence of Matt Barzal. And the reason I bring this up is because watching this Islander's team now, I really do feel like, you know, not as maybe the vibe, but I feel like the trajectory or my expectations for them this season have changed quite noticeably just because you watch this team now and all of a sudden they have the second line with Barzal and Eberley that's firing on all cylinders and they're just so much better. And I wonder if, you know, John Tavares looks at and realizes that all of a sudden now he's got sort of a running, a legitimate running mate and he's got secondary scoring help and maybe

the Islanders can make something of this season and all of a sudden that might make him more willing or more excited about the Islander's future and might make him stay there. So I don't know. I'm kind of curious to see if that actually is, you know, just a 15, 15 game blipping the radar or if there's something more to this moving forward? Well, it certainly doesn't hurt. John Tavares is winning. And I don't think there's any question about that.

Lots of players say that. And I think that maybe you can wonder how true it is. If it's something that's supposed to be said, I know this guy well enough to know that he's a sort of player that's thinking about, you know, one day being in the Hall of Fame, you know, what does he have to do in his career to be, you know, receive the ultimate recognitions that this sport can possibly have?

And look, he's made tremendous, sacrifices throughout his whole life. He's playing the Ontario Hockey League at age 15. You know, this is what he's about. And this is a huge decision for him, you know, where he's going to play the next seven to eight years because, you know, they might ultimately be the final, at least in terms of him as a top player, stretch of his career. And, you know, there's also been some developments with the arena where everything does seem to be on pretty good track. I think they'll find out in the new year, you know, whether they are able to develop the land at Belmont where they want to build a new

rink and I think that that could be just as key to these discussions but you know it's going to be fascinating I mean Barzell has made the islanders better in the moment there's just no question about it you see him doing that nice little dance on Edmonton and in the game last night

inside inside inside inside inside on cleft bomb too he's actually a good defenseman right it was I know that that doesn't just showcases some of the skill the guy has he wasn't able to score but you know I think that there's at least a little bit more for them to think about. You know, if they had started the year, not even the way Arizona has,

but even if they had started, you know, five and nine or something like this, and they were already kind of out of the playoff race, you know, it's going to get tougher to convince him to stick around, I believe. But, you know, if they are as competitive as it looks, they might be, and that there's a bit of future hope and that the organization's in a good place, you know, he's also a pretty loyal man, John. So, you know, it's going to be interesting. I think it's very, it's similar to the,

Stamco situation just because their first overall picks and roughly the same age. But, you know, I think it's quite different because of some of the emotional ties here that are going to factor under the decision, you know, from John Tavares' end. And I don't know that anyone truly knows what he's thinking on this one or what the Islanders are thinking. But, you know, if they fall back out of playoff contention by February 26th and they don't believe they're going to resign him, I mean, there's always a possibility they're moving him. And that would be some kind of trade. We'll need two PDO cast to go over whatever. that ends up being, you know, where it to happen. Might even be a three-parter.

Yeah, you know what? God bless the Islanders fans. I love whenever, you know, even if I'm doing a podcast about something completely different and then there's like a three-minute segment about John Tavares, you can count on like that to be sort of plucked from the podcast and transcribed and then like blogs be written about what we said about it even though we're just kind of having fun with it or not actually reporting anything. But I love that sort of enthusiasm and passion and you really see that with this whole

Tavares' story when it comes to Islanders fans sort of protecting their turf. Well, and he's been their one shining hope, really, the last seven, eight years. And, you know, even the one year they get to the second round there, he was one who scored the overtime or double overtime winner. I mean, this guy's meant everything

to the franchise, and, you know, that hasn't been an easy team to support over the years. I don't think that's any secret, given, you know, how crappy they've been for most of it. But, you know, any relative prosperity they've had has all been tied to him. So to see him leave would be difficult as a fan, I'm sure.

And, you know, I don't know that he is going to leave. I don't really know how this is going to play out. I think so much of it is still fluid and up for grabs. It's not like where you kind of think deep down the decision's been made, and it's just time running its course. I actually believe that there's moving parts here that are significant and weighing on what he's going to do. And, you know, it doesn't hurt at all if he's having fun at the rank

and seeing someone like Matt Barzell emerge as a teammate that can help shoulder the load offensively. And, you know, if they're doing well, I do think that the odds of him staying go up. Yeah. Okay. So one final thing, I have four teams here that I have sort of written down in, or I guess mentally have written down as teams that could make sort of a panic reactionary trade because obviously the start of the season hasn't gone the way they'd hope for. And those are the Oilers, the Rangers, the ducks, and the wild. And the last two are, unfortunately, mostly due to injuries. And especially with the ducks, I'm not sure, like, you know, cap-wise,

if they could really even do anything. They just might have to bite the bullet and wait until Getslaff and Kessler come back. But I feel like, you know, the Oilers and the Rangers in particular seem sort of poised to do something because there's been a lot of rumblings right now. Like, do you think we could see anything there? Yeah, I do. I would add Montreal to your list, too. And I know that they've won a little stretch of games here and gotten themselves.

back to out of sort of the crisis they seem to be in two weeks ago. But, you know, that's a team to me that has to react for the now as well. And if they're now, if they lose three more and they're seven and ten, you know, from when we're talking now, like I could still see them being among them. I mean, the Rangers are interesting because to me they seem to be kind of tilting on the edge of really blowing it up or, you know, contemplating some even more significant moves after trading. Derek Step on in the summer. You know, they seem very

motivated to reimagine what they are at this point. And that probably makes some sense, given what we've seen and, you know, where Hendrik Lungfist appears to be. And, you know, just kind of might have run the course with the core of the team that, you know, played a lot of

playoff games in the last number of years, but wasn't able to get over the top. You know, Edmonton, man, what do you do if you're Edmonton? I mean, they have to be doing anything they can to have the best possible team for this season. You know, they feel that they need to add up front a little bit more speed, especially, I think. And, you know, that could be a tough trade to make.

The reason I add Montreal is there seems to be kind of a nice little triangle going between the Habs, Rangers, and Oilers in terms of some rumored, you know, moves. And I wonder if two of those teams, I'm not saying it'll be a three-way deal at the end, are able to hook up, you know, Elliot Freeman. connected Crider to the Oilers. I think Gell-Cenjuk is still a possibility for Montreal here at some point to move. And maybe the Rangers would have some interest there. I mean, they do have some holes down the middle.

You know, those teams have, I think that they have the formula to potentially do something drastic. You know, I was in Anaheim about a week ago. And, you know, my sense with the Ducks is that they're going to try to ride this thing out. I mean, there might be a smaller move in their future. You know, it's since then, of course, they found out that Getslaps out two months. You know, at that point, I don't believe they thought it was that serious. They had to wait for the swelling to go down before they knew how bad things were. But, you know, they seem inclined to me anyway to try to get through this.

I mean, the one thing that, you know, a few people there were mentioning is that they don't, they view their situation is slightly different than Tampa last year because their expectations is they're going to get all these guys back, you know, in and around Christmas time, and that if they can kind of stay above water until then, that they maybe won't see a loss of season because of it. I guess the next question is what happens if they lose five in a row, and it appears they're taking on water, then maybe that's where your desperation trade comes in.

You know, in the wild, I mean, geez, another team that's just had more than a share of injuries and, you know, we'll see if Chuck Fletcher isn't inclined to act. But, you know, I do think the three most desperate anyway is Edmonton, the Rangers in Montreal, or the possibilities of maybe doing something emotional. Yeah, yeah, Mount Bruce is erupting these days. Yeah, I mean, I watched that Ducks game last night against the Kings, which is actually a really good game, and I'm surprised by how competitive the Ducks were in it,

forcing it to overtime and actually, you know, holding their ground. But, man, I don't know, their top two centers are Derek Grant and Chris Wagner right now, and I'm not sure how long that's a feasible solution for them, so we'll see. All right, CJ, I'll let you go here. I know you're a busy man. I appreciate you taking the time to come chat. I'll be in your neck of the woods in Toronto or then the month, so maybe we'll get around to sitting face-to-face again in the same room

and maybe recording another show together. That would be great. That'd be really good. You know what, the one thing I forgot, we didn't mention the doomsday scenario built into the Duchesne Tourist Trade that I think has to at least be aired since people got a little deep dive on it. If, and this is a huge if, Ottawa were to miss that. the playoffs and it becomes a top 10 pick.

Then the first rounder they sent to Colorado becomes a 2019 pick with no conditions on it. And, you know, imagine if that then became a top pick of Ottawa really fell off. I mean, it's unlikely. You've got to feel like with Eric Carlson in your lineup alone, you're not going to be in the hunt for number one overall pick. But, you know, it is, that's the, that's where there's some risk built in if things go wrong. And no one ever expects this. It reminds me to cite one from way back. the Kessel trade that the Leafs made at the time when they thought that they were on the up and up with Brian Burke.

And, you know, one of the first round picks became number two overall and Tyler Saygan. So you never know what could happen. There's still, that could have a surprising outcome still yet. Absolutely. Yeah, that's a good point. All right, CJ. Get out here. Okay, buddy.

See you soon, Bob. See you soon, Bob. See you. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at SoundCloud. com slash HockeyPedioCast.