The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 205: Getting Down To The Nitty Gritty

Episode Date: November 21, 2017

Andrew Berkshire joins the show to discuss the best centers in the game, helping to eventually whittle down the list to the Top 10 players at the position. Things discussed include: 3:20 Weighting abilities in each of the 3 zones 7:09 Building your team around a Top Center vs. a Top Defenseman 11:18 Jack Eichel, Nathan MacKinnon, and others who fell just short 21:16 Can Mark Scheifele keep scoring all of the goals? 24:36 The one dimension Tyler Seguin is good at 29:08 Battle of The Playmakers: Ryan Getzlaf vs. Nicklas Backstrom 36:34 Steven Stamkos and Anze Kopitar returning to form 43:37 John Tavares' improved defensive play 49:20 Sasha Barkov's heavy lifting 53:17 Auston Matthews' ability to get open and generate chances 59:31 The differences between Crosby and McDavid Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. The Hockey P.D.O.cast is brought to you by Get Down BP, which brings people together with a goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O.cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey P.D.O.cast. My name is Dimitri Filippovich. And joining me is my good buddy, Andrew Berkshire. Andrew, what's going on, man?

Not much, man. I apologize if you hear any baby crying. Usually he's super chill, but he's vaccinated last night, or not last night, last morning. And apparently they feel kind of crappy after that. So it might happen, but I hope not. Finally, I'm not the only baby on the show, eh? Yeah, it's first for everything. Yeah, and I apologize if I say some wild stuff. I mean, more wild than usual, but it's 6 a.m. here where I'm recording, so I'm trying to chug as much coffee as I can to wake up a little bit here. But hopefully the discussion we're about to have is going to help with that as well. And, you know, you and I thought that it'd be good to finally start this top 10 series that we've been talking about for,

I feel like months now. We connected in the summer and we were planning it out. And then as the year it got going, we kept pushing it off and off. And finally, I feel like we've got this nice little pocket in the year here where it's like the freshness of the new seasons worn off, but we're not yet sort of in that trade deadline mode yet. So we've got some time here to make some list and have a little fun with it. Yeah. I feel like we started planning this podcast around the beginning of September.

And then it took me a little while to complete the project that I was working on for sports net. And then, you know, beginning of the season delays and all that other fun stuff. It was tough to schedule everything. But we got her going. And now it's, like you said, it's the beginning of the doldrums of the season where you're in that, like, game 20 to 60 range where not much changes. So it's a great time to dig into the nitty gritty. Is that what it says?

The nitty gritty? I would say so. All right. Let's get into the nitty gritty. Well, before we do that, actually, give the listeners. who for some reason haven't read your actual article where you do your top 23. Wait a second. Why did you pick the number 23?

That was actually Rory who picked that. Are the 20 bad of your Rory Boylan, we should say. Yes, Rory. So I think part of the reason was he didn't want the Google searches to pick up on last year's stuff if you were searching like top 20s. So he wanted to change it. But what he told me was basically they wanted to try. something with the search engine optimization with the number 23 i guess i i'm not entirely sure but i guess it was just like last year plus some bonus content right wanted to pick up on some of that

uh michael jordan traffic where people are just googling the best 23s of all time or that really bad jim carrie movie um okay so give us the uh give us the methodology here for um for sort of how you put this together because obviously um a lot went into it when especially when especially when you're trying to kind of account for everything in all three zones. So just sort of what were you looking at and how did you weigh it and how did you get to the final product? Yeah. Okay. So basically I broke down a variety of statistics.

I think it ended up being close to like 30 different stats per position. I don't know off top my head anymore because it's just like when you're doing so much data entry after a while, it just becomes routine instead of like looking at the details. But I broke it down into three categories of the game. offense, defense, and transition play. And essentially what I did was a certain statistic is worth a certain number of points out of 100. And the player who leads that category gets the maximum amount of points. And then the next player down gets the percentage of what they are between the worst player at their position and the best player at their position for that number of points. So, like, yeah, I feel like that's fairly easy to understand, but also a little bit comfortable.

But essentially it's like kind of like a percentile, but not quite. And then I've got all that together. I do the same thing for the totals for each area of the game. So then you've got a graphical representation of how each player at that position compares to the best player, offensively, defensively, and in transition. And yeah, it's pretty interesting. So you can see guys who are notably supposed to be good defensively who don't necessarily show up because what they're credited for doesn't end up mattering as much.

And also there's, you know, my opinions in there too. So it's not definitive. But it's a fun little exercise, I think, that I would give it, you know, a good amount of weight in terms of, like, my personal player analysis. There are some things that showed up that I don't necessarily agree with, but, you know, it's pretty robust. So at a certain point, like when you're looking at that much data, it's hard to say, like, if somebody's rated, like, a top five. And I, like, personally think, oh, they're not even in the top 20. I have to kind of reevaluate my own opinion. Yeah, I think robust is a good word for it.

So the question I have, though, is, I mean, obviously, you know, you're trying to account for everything here but in your personal opinion um would play in all three of the zones do you think it should be weighted equally i weighted it differently for each position um well for a center for example yeah so for a center what i had it was uh i'd have to look it up now actually i think i had it as uh offense was out of 50 transition play was out of 20 and defense was out of 30 points out of a maximum of 100. And then there was also like a qualifier for quality of minutes played, right? So like everything from the amount of time on ice they had versus quality of teammates, quality of opposition.

And also I included things like PDO to, you know, counteract some of the randomness involved in scoring. So it was like theoretically, the most a player could actually get in terms of like a final score would. be like 125 if they were the best at everything and played the absolute toughest minutes but i think the highest score any player got was in the low 80s unless eric car uh it might have been actually never mind carry price was a 95.66 because there's uh much less um or much bigger spread in goalies than uh players right um just because there's less of them yes yes um yeah uh okay So, and then before we get into the actual rankings here, just a philosophical question that I guess I pose to you is, you know, I get, I get asked this very frequently. It's sort of like the, if you're building your own team and you get to start with any position, would you start with the number one center or a number one defenseman?

And, you know, you have obviously the old hockey adage that you build from the middle out. And we see as we're going to get into this list that the best players in the league typically do play the center position. I guess it obviously depends, right? Like, I feel like you can't go wrong if you're starting with a, with a generational player like Eric Carlson on the blue line either. But I imagine that center still is priority, or do you think we make too much of that as fans and analysts? I think I would go center.

I mean, part of the reason is because defensemen, you know, there's right and left handed. So, like, just because of that, there's a bigger group. It's kind of like the same as wingers. There's more to choose from. And, you know, hockey's always changing and we're always kind of copying the team that won. And you look at what the Pittsburgh Penguins were able to do last year without, you know,

I think they had maybe one top four defensemen last year in the Stanley Cup playoffs. And I know they got outshot really poorly, but they're really badly. But they were able to really control high danger scoring chances and rely on those top two centers. Now, they happen to have Sidney Crosby and of Guinea-Malcom, which is a bit unfair, but at the same time, you know, if you can dominate offense, I feel like the game is changing a little bit. And I wrote about that for the sporting news last week, I think, that I feel like we kind of got to, like, peak defensive hockey in the last few years where, like, the things that you can do from a coaching perspective to influence defense have kind of peaked. And there's nowhere else for coaches to go. So it seems like there's like a switch towards going all out offense. And that's why like, you know, three on three hockey came in three years ago, but scoring didn't increase.

But now the last two years, we've had big jumps in scoring. Where is that coming from? Is it just young players or is it a change in strategies? And like I have the opportunity to look at the really detailed microdata. And it turns out like scoring chances and high danger scoring chances are way up over the last two years, which doesn't make any sense, right, unless things are changing within the game. Right. So I feel like you always have to look at offense first now.

Yeah. No, I agree. I mean, and that's, I think fans would agree that that's probably a change in the positive direction, just in terms of how fan-friendly the product's going to be. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that, and listen, we're going to get into this list here, and so I'm going to come pretty clear that the best players in the league do typically play this position. And I don't know, like, I decided to make this.

podcast the top 10 centers just because you know if we got if we started listing 20 guys I feel like we could really go on for a long long time but the problem with doing that is that uh you know if you do an honorable mention section for like the 11 to 20 guys all of a sudden you're going to be leaving some pretty good names off the list here I mean you know the guys like tyler say again and i'mgeny kuznet's off uh not on my list and you know and defensive guys like jordan Stahl and Michael Backland. It's all centers whose games I value really highly, but when you're talking about just the top 10, you really sort of have to nitpick a little bit and try and get the guys who are

just the most all-around great players who don't have any flaws in their game, really. So those guys, unfortunately, are stronger in some areas than others, and they're examples of guys that couldn't put them to my top 10 as a result. Yeah, it's all, it's with centers and defensemen, I find it's really tough to pick the top 10. And you have to just be like really ruthless and kind of like remind yourself that just because somebody's not a necessarily top 10 player doesn't mean they're not awesome. And they're they're going to be great, great players left off of both of our lists. And people will be mad at us.

And that's cool. Yes, that's cool. That's the internet. I had a really tough time. Okay, I'm going to go through some of my most notable honorable mentions here. Jack Eichol, you know, remarkably all 13 of his five and five points this season. are still primary points. And the reason I bring that up is because it really feels like he doesn't get much help at all.

If you, you know, if you watch the games, he has a bit of that sort of Taylor Hall situation going on, especially the Taylor Hall. I was going to say the same thing. Taylor Hall in his Edmonton years where he really has to do all of the heavy lifting straight up from his zone. And, you know, I'm sure in your project that came up in terms of his neutral zone play and his ability to trenches in the puck. but it's also not probably the most optimal way for an offensive player to play because by the time you actually get into the offensive zone where you can start causing some havoc,

you've probably tired yourself out and you've already blown some opportunities just, you know, getting picked off and stuff on your way there. So it's, I feel like if Eichl was in a better situation, I'm not sure how much higher he'd rise up this list, but I feel like, you know, his case would be more favorable just because I feel like the counting stats would be there more. and maybe we just, you know, if he was playing on a better, more successful team, we would just think about him in a different light, but it's tough to get him to crack that list, even though his just, his raw talent is of a top 10 center. Yeah, I totally agree with you there. Man, the Taylor Hall comparison is so perfect

because those are the two guys that, like, transition the puck more often than any other forward in the NHL. They're just always carrying the puck and trying to make things happen. And like you said, just not that much support. And maybe Hall is getting a little bit more this year with a bit of a faster team in New Jersey. But Eichael is very much in that Taylor Hall in Edmonton time where it's just not working. You know, he's doing everything that he can, but it's just not enough for one guy to try to do everything. My biggest honorable mention I'm going to say is pretty unharalded in Vincent Trocheck.

I think he is one heck of a player that. Not many people outside of the analytics community really know who he is. But I remember when he was named to the Team North America for the World Cup. And I was like, what? He shouldn't make that. He's not that good. He's like, he had a breakout year, but like he's not, you know, that level. No, he's absolutely that level.

He is fantastic. He, you know, he has the benefit of playing behind Alexander Barkoff. But, man, if he had the wingers that Alexander Barkoff had, what kind of production would be, would we be seeing from him because he hasn't had that, you know, and especially this year where the Florida Panthers have just, like, decimated their scoring, he's got a lot on his plate to carry that line. And, you know, his offensive isn't his biggest strength. He's more of a transition and defensive guy who can contribute offensively. But, you know, give him better wingers and maybe that changes. He's still, I think, a 55 point guy. Yeah. No, I'm a huge project fan and I have been for

a few years. You know, he sort of really broke out last year, especially, I guess, offensively and started generating more attention from the casual fan base. But the one thing I will say about him when I was putting together my list, and I had him on sort of my initial list of like 20, 25 guys that I needed to consider. And listen, I have the benefit of looking at numbers this year, which you obviously didn't when you were putting together this list. He's really taken a hit this season.

And I imagine a large part of that has to do with the wingers, as you mentioned. I mean, last year he was playing a lot with Riley Smith, who is also a fantastic player and very underrated, and UC O'Kinnin as well. And this year, you know, his most common line mates are Connor Brickley and Jamie McGinn and Redeemed Rabathe and someone named Dryden Hunt. So he's, it's weird because obviously that entire team, except for that top line really, has really cratered this season. despite what Dale Talon will tell you when he speaks their media. But thank God he's back, Dimitri. Yes, thank God he's back. But I think Trojok's like an under 45% shot share guy this year,

which is weird because he was a dominant player in that regard in years past. And so it's kind of alarming that he, you know, on the one hand, you'd like to see a top center be able to sort of drive the bus regardless of who he's playing with. At the same time, you do have to give him a bit of a pass just because the disparity in talent he's playing with from last year to this year is so dramatic that, you know, you can't really fault him entirely for what's happened. But it is, it is alarming. And obviously, you know, we should say it's only, what, 20 games or so into the season.

So, yeah, it's quite possible that this is just a blip in the radar. But it's definitely something to consider as well, especially if we're, if, you know, if he goes from just being this nice little sort of third, second line center that we all like in the analytics community to actually being someone considering seriously as a top flight guy, you'd like to see him be able to avoid these sorts of stretches. Yeah, for sure. And man, those linemates are pretty rough. Like, the most established guy that he's playing with is Jamie McGinn, right?

And, like, I just quickly looked at McGinn's percentiles just to, like, give, like, an idea of what Trojerk's dealing with. He's in the 47th percentile offensively, which is, like, that's not bad for, like, a third line-type scoring guy. He likes to sit in front of the net, but his transition plays in the 38th percent. centile so it's like there there's a lot that's on trocheque to do on that line yeah no 100% and that obviously explains some of it um yeah i mean some other guys i had here you know Nathan mckenon um and i was happy to see on your list that he was as high as he was and you know you alluded to uh the transition play and how he uses his speed in that regard and how he's really short up his defensive game in his own zone and you like to hear all of that and obviously you know the guy like

him, the thing that's stuck out, and I've beaten this horse to death many times now, but it's, it's you'd like to see the goal start coming. He's obviously been a high volume shot generator, but weirdly been like a 7 to 8% finisher for his career prior to this year. And finally this season, he's back shooting him above 13% and he's on pace for 30 goals and 95 points. And while that might regress a bit, it's nice to see that the offense is finally starting to come for him, because he is one of those guys where you watch him and you just, you're like, how is this guy not one of the most productive players in the league,

just purely based on what he's capable of on the ice, considering how few guys actually are able to do what he can. Yeah, and he was one of the guys where, when I was looking into it, like surprisingly, because quality of teammates matters so much. He played some of the most difficult minutes of any center in the NHL the last couple years. You know, I think there's a lot of idea around McKinnon

that he hasn't progressed. I guess that's probably gone away a little bit this year with his start but because of that low shooting percentage and it's not like he wasn't putting up chances he was getting chances constantly and I remember I was kind of teasing Aric Parnas who's a friend of ours over the summer because I had drinks with him when he came back to Montreal and he works for the avalanche and I was teasing him that you know they should get rid of McKinnon just like they got rid of

O'Reilly and he was like kind of taken aback that I was even joking about McKinnon because he was like you guys don't realize how much he's progressed he's so much better and then like I kind of like laughed at office him being a homer and then when I looked into it I was like no no he's he's really taken steps that people haven't noticed because that lack of production and it goes to show you how much it matters to to play on a team that can support you a little bit because you know this year the Colorado of lunch are a little bit better a little bit more depth they've got a little bit of scoring from the wings finally so it all of a sudden it's it looks much better for McKinnon and I don't think his play has changed that much. It's just that he's getting the

breaks. I mean, I'm just, I'm, I'm happy for Eric. I hope, I hope he's doing better this year. I remember I bumped into one a few times last year and he was, uh, all the losing the avalanche were doing was really, really taking its toll on him. So hopefully, and I know he's listening. So I hope he's, I hope he's doing better these days. I'm sure he is. And yeah, I can't imagine being on the inside and, you know, could you imagine being a part of the Montreal Canadians right now? Or they've been to noilers. like outside of like Bergevin and Chiarelli who kind of made their bed, but just like a guy in that management group who isn't necessarily like a big decision maker and watching this happen or like Clod Julian right now watching like trying to assemble something

with the defense that Mark Bergevin gave him in every game just like every tiny little thing going wrong. And that happened to the Avalanche last year, but worse because they were bad and everything went wrong. Yes. Yeah, it was pretty bad. Yeah. So did you consider Sean Cachari at all for this list? He was up there for me because he was just outside my top 20, I think.

So the thing is, like, with Couturey, his offense was so low before he actually got some opportunity to produce some this season. So, like, if I were to remake this list next season, which I probably will, he might be able to crack that. I think he finished 33rd among centers for me, mostly on the back of his defense and transition play. So like that increased offense might bump him up a bit, but I think he's more in the range of guys who kind of fell off of it in You know the Jonathan Taves Joe Thornton who kind of Fallen off a little bit so like maybe he jumps them this year Yeah, but I think he's still pretty far away from the top ten Yeah, yeah, that's fair

Definitely helps that he's playing with Warwick and Jeru this season, so the numbers will look good Um, okay, so here's like, I think this guy, I think either he made your top 10 or he was like in that 11, 12 range, but Mark Schifley is someone who

had to leave on my cutting room floor here. Um, and I like him a lot as a player. Um, obviously, uh, I'm a big fan. I've been pumping the Jets tires for a while now and it's good to see them finally start to reward some of that faith.

And he's a big reason for that. Um, I just had a tough time. putting him above the guys will mention here shortly in that 10 to 10.9 range for me, but I'm kind of curious with him, you know, a big, just from the outside, when you look at his number is superficially a big reason for his success appears to be an inflated shooting percentage. And while obviously he probably won't be the 28% guy or whatever he is this season, I mean, he did finish last year at 20%, I believe. And I'm just wondering, you know, based on sort

of the type of player he is and where he's shooting from, do you think there's some merit to the idea that he could be one of those sort of Sean Monaghan types that just year after year has this bloated shooting percentage and it looks like it's not real, but after they do it for long enough, you just sort of have to kind of recalibate your expectations and take it for what it is just based off of where they're shooting from and the opportunities they're getting. Yeah, he's a weird one because I think he gets more like scoring chances in terms of volume than Sean Monaghan does,

but I think Monaghan gets better quality scoring chances. He gets in a little bit closer than that than Shifley does. Sheffley's got a great shot, though. Obviously, I don't think he's a 20% shooter, but two years ago when he scored 29 and shot 15%. That's probably in the range of what he's expected to do. I think his career shooting percentage now is like almost 15% on the dot after the great year last year and the hot start this year.

I think it also helps that he plays with, some guys that are kind of like shooting percentage boosters like I know that a lot of people criticize that line of him lining and eilers last year which you know like their shot share wasn't as good as their goals for percentage and they were always scoring goals at a higher than expected rate but like all three of those guys are high-end shooting percentage guys and high-end playmakers at the same so like all all three of them can create in multiple different ways it's kind of like when we were talking about the Kutrov, Stamcoastakov, headman Namesnikov, a group on the power play

where it's just like you can't shut them down because there's too many good things that they can do. It's kind of the same thing with that line. And I know they're broken up a little bit this year and they haven't played together the whole year. But I feel like that top end of the Jets lineup is so good, whether it's, you know, Wheeler on that line or Line A or Eilers.

They're just, they have a lot of chemistry between the group of them and they're all high percentage. guys so you see those ludicrous looking numbers show up for them obviously he's not going to shoot 28% the rest of the year but i feel like sheifley is going to be a consistent 30 goal score for the duration of his prime yeah that's fair and like i said uh i think i probably i didn't really map out after after top 10 but i imagine he'd be either 11th or 12 or 13th or something there so obviously he was he was my number 10 yeah yeah i think that's a fair spot to have him uh you know, I noticed that a guy like Tyler Sagan was probably the biggest fall in your list from

last year to this year, especially from guys who are still in their relative primes. And he's kind of had an interesting season so far because I got to watch a bit of him early on and it definitely looked like he was back to being Tyler Sagan. You know, last year it felt like all year he was just off health-wise and was sort of just a shadow of the player he'd been in the past, which I would have been just led to believe would have been for health reasons because it's not really aged really concern yet for him. And this year, he looked like he was bouncing back, but then I was looking recently at his numbers and I don't know, maybe it would just be one of those things that on paper it sounds

like this sort of dream line, but maybe for, you know, chemistry reasons or for stylistically, they just didn't fit. The Sagan, Ben Radjolov trio at 515 has been underwhelming this season. in about 200 minutes or so together. I mean, you know, they're about 50% in shot share and pretty much everything, but they're barely above that. And, you know, you'd expect just three players of that caliber to be just absolutely dominant with the puck

and not really giving it to the opposition at all. And that wasn't the case. And I don't know, I guess it just might be one of those things. We're on paper. It looks good. But when you actually play it out on the ice, there's just not enough puck to go around for those three. And it just didn't fit for whatever reason.

So that was kind of a disappointing thing that I noticed in his numbers because I was expecting a bit better in that regard. Yeah, I don't know what it is with Sagan. I think that it might be that he's just much better offensively than he is at anything else. And, you know, playing most of his career with Jamie Ben and Patrice Berserone of kind of hidden the fact that he's a little bit one-dimensional. But like you said, injuries played a big part in the last couple seasons. But the combination of losing the season four years ago and adding last year, really dropped him down on my list.

His transition game has just been... It's gone from really good to a total mess in the last two years. Like you said, he hasn't been great this year in terms of transition and shot share. I just don't know if he's ever been as big of a possession driver as we've given him credit for. It's like because he plays center, there's like a tendency to give him the credit for it. but I wonder if it's just been Jamie Ben in Dallas, and then when he was breaking into the NHL, I mean,

it obviously was Patrice Berseran running the show there because he's Patrice's freaking Bergeron. But I think Sagan might just be, you know, a super elite offensive guy and that's it. Well, you know what, Andrew? If you're going to have one skill, having Tyler Sagan's skill is probably a pretty good one. Yeah, I'd take it.

You know, if I was allowed to pick something that I could steal from someone, I'd take second skill any day. It's so insane that he's still 25 years old. It seems crazy, but then you realize, like, oh, yeah, he was traded as, what, a 20, 21-year-old? So, yeah, good times with good times if Peter Sherelli's listening to this. I'm sure he knows that Tyler Sagan is still only 25. Yeah, I'm sure he's never reminded of Tyler Sagan in any way.

I find it funny. Somebody on Edmondon, Twitter was talking about how, like, the media started to play McDavid for their losing streak and they're like if you think cheeralee wouldn't trade McDavid here's a list of players that he's traded and they actually like listed out starting with like you know going way back and it's it's pretty astonishing I don't think that there's any chance that they would trade McDavid because he's another level above those guys but man it's uh it's quite the track record for cheer rally trading away great players yeah it's not great not great it's amazing that the head uh the YouTube video where they're talking about trading say again is

still available online. I mean, if I had a video of showing myself on that light on YouTube, I'd try very hard to get it taken down because it's not very flattering for Shirelli or Benning or pretty much anyone involved in that video. But I guess all those guys still have NHL jobs. So I guess it hasn't been that big but PR hit for them. Yeah, I guess. I mean, it's not like the Boston Bruins just like, you know, fell off a cliff right after that trade or anything, right? And, like, haven't really been a cup contender since then. That's not true, right?

Yeah. Oh, boy. Okay. So, let's get into this top ten here. After 30 minutes, we finally start the show. Very exciting. So I had a kind of internal debate here between two names in particular, and I'm going to get you to help me pick which one I should cut off this list and which one we should

start off with the 10 spot. And that's Nick Baxter and Ryan Gets Laugh. um you know obviously different players and they have different pros and cons i think with getz live it's kind of tough because he's been out of the lineup so much this season and even in past regular seasons you know you don't want to psychoanalyze too much and get into uh a player's motives and how much how much he's trying in the in the regular season versus how much he's trying to save in the tank for a postseason run but you know just if you watch last year it's it's pretty clear that when it comes to

When push comes to shove, Ryan gets left still has his peak fastball and he can be as dominant as any center out there. And we haven't really seen it for long stretches during the regular season in the past few years. But I think that's not for a lack of it not being there, just a matter of him choosing to play that way. So I have to respect the talent and the ability. But I don't know. Do you think that's enough of a reason to bump him out of this list and put back in head of him? I mean, these two guys, what I find really interesting about these two being like the guys that you're debating about is like when I look at their percentiles, they're actually super similar, like really close in offense, transition and defense, but they get there in completely different ways, right? Like outside of them both being really elite playmakers.

But I like maybe this is the Villilino bias of looking at recent playoff performance. And, you know, Backstrom is great, but I look at what Gatslap is able to do when he really buttons down. And I really like Nick Baxterom, but I don't think he's a guy who consistently takes over games, whereas Getslap does. Like, Baxterm always has the added benefit of playing with elite linemates. And Getsl have had that for a lot of his career. Right. But, like, we've seen Corey Perry the last couple years is not the same guy. Ricard Raquel is good, but I think part of the reason why he,

looks so good is because he's played Getslaff a lot. Gets laugh, man. Like, what astounds me about him is he's not fast, but he'll still, like, create space for himself with his skating somehow. And it's not, he doesn't even have like that short space, like that small area of speed, right? Like, he doesn't have breakaway speed. He just is able to find spots. And, you know, his, his played defensively in the last couple years has kind of gone unharalded,

but he's like in the Selky territory for me. Like, he's so good. And he's on top of that, he's probably, last year in the playoffs was probably the best penalty killing I've ever seen. I don't know if you remember the five on three that Calgary had. I think it might have been game seven. And he played like the entire two minutes and essentially killed the entire five on three on his own. And I think he got a scoring chance as well during. He's just incredible on the puck.

I have so much respect for him after, you know, he kind of looked. like he was taking a career downturn a couple seasons ago. He's kind of recaptured that. And he hasn't put up the offensive numbers that he used to in his early career. But like you said, I think he kind of chokes it a little bit in the regular season. Yeah, it definitely feels like last year's postseason was a reminder that he still has it. And you're right about how he can still sort of generate enough room apart from the defender, even though he doesn't have the speed to do so.

And some of that is craftiness and positioning, as you mentioned. I think, I don't know, some of it is just like, it feels like the way he, and it might be his reach or something. I don't know what it is or just sort of, like, he's so good at just using his frame to protect the puck from defenders. And it feels like he has more space than he has any right to. And you think it might also be like a bit of fear on the defending? Because like Getslav as much as he doesn't shoot, like when he does.

Oh, he can. sick yeah well i mean it that's all he kind of like laughs about it but he should shoot more that was always the argument with uh with like a guy like jason spetsa and i think even with uh even with nick baxter here like when they do shoot it looks really really good and they're pretty effective doing it but you know just the type of players they are they prefer to be in a playmaking capacity um yeah i mean anaheim's top two centers right now with uh with getts laugh and kessler out are Derek Grant and Chris Wagner. And the fact that the ducks are still staying afloat here and playing respectable hockey is

pretty mind-blowing just based on what they've gone through health-wise this year. And if they're able to kind of patch it together here for another handful of weeks or so and get some of those guys back, I'm a big believer in them even though Randy Carlisle still is their coach. So Randy Carlisle, top 10 coach in the NHL, is what you're saying? I think he's pulling some magic out of his ass here, man. I don't know what's happening, but it's all working. Yeah. Yeah, in terms of Nick Baxter, you know, his numbers are down this year.

And part of that is he's been snake-bidden himself and that'll come around eventually. But another part of it is, you know, and this is where Hvgeny Kuznetsov comes into this discussion because he was a guy probably had in closer to that sort of 15 range. And, you know, he's an all-world dynamic talent that can do magical things with a puck. But part of the reason why he's so successful is because, it feels like Nick Baxter is just sort of eating up all of the, all of the heavy, tough minutes and allowing Kuznetsov to run free and get to play with Ovechkin and all that good stuff.

So I feel like, you know, if the caps wanted to unleash Baxter and put him in a more favorable position, they could certainly do so. But maybe for their team right now, it's better that, you know, his numbers might take a bit of a dip, but he's doing more important things offensively for them. Yeah, and that's definitely true. I think Backstrom is still the number one guy, even if Kuznetsoff might be producing more or, you know, once in a while getting more minutes.

Last, in the project that I looked at, Kuznetsov of the guys who made the top 23 played the softest minutes, and Baxter played pretty tough minutes. So I have a lot of respect for Baxter as a two-way player. I think he doesn't get enough credit for it. Yeah, and it seemed pretty clear, you know, especially earlier in the year that Barry Trots was relying on the trio of Baxter, Oshy and Burakowski when it was healthy to sort of be their power versus power line

when they were playing other teams' best units. So it makes sense. So I haven't decided here yet if I want Getslaff or Baxter as my team spot. You know what? I'm going to give it to Baxter just because he's healthy and active and he's going this season. And maybe we will recalibrate and readjust when Getslap gets back. into the lineup but for now i'll give it the backstrom just for durability all right your so your 10 is backs from mine is shifely um all right so nine here um this might be i don't know if this is

controversial or not because he's leading the league in scoring but i have steven stamco's at nine here which seems low but just based on everything he's been over the past few years the fact that he's back in this territory and i feel very comfortable with it is a testament to um just how good of a year he's had because there were certain stretches during the past couple years where this probably would have seemed like a bit of a pipe stream just based on what he went through yeah i had stamp coast a little bit higher uh i gave him the benefit of the doubt for the injured years and kind of waited uh last year's injury shortened season and the beginning of this year is a little more heavily for my little top 10 thing uh he looks better than ever to me

you know i know part of it is playing with kutjura But, you know, he played with Martan St. Louis for a long time, too. So there isn't like he hasn't had an elite linemate before. But this chemistry that he has with Kutrov has brought out the best of both of them. And as much as I think a lot of people want to credit Kutrov for, you know, igniting everything and being the crazy score. I think Stam Kost is as much, if not bigger on that line than Kutrov is. He's definitely the play driver. If you look at their their wowies, which are hard to come by nowadays because, man, he hasn't updated his site.

And I swear every day, three or four times a day, I click Wowie and it goes to that Just Win Baby video. And my wife was like, why do you keep watching that video? And I'm like, trust me, it's not on purpose that I'm watching this video. Yes. But, yeah, he's been great. I have Stamco's at seven. So I have him a bit higher. Yeah.

I mean, when we get to the names that I have above him, it'll be under. understandable why I had to have him at nine, but you're right. I mean, him and Kutrov have been the number one story this season, both in terms of scoring, but also just in terms of how fun they are to watch and what they're capable of doing. And it's tough to, you know, here's the thing. Kuturov was so good last year without Stamco's that, you know, you sort of want to give him some love in terms of being the guy who's more responsible.

But I think it's tough to separate one from the other because I do feel like they're just they're benefiting from how much extra space, even if it's just in fractions or milliseconds it's creating for them, just the fact that the other guy is on the other end of the ice and the defense has to sort of, you know, shift over a little bit or be cognizant of the fact that they're there, and then all of a sudden they have a bit more room to operate. And so I think it's just really a one-two punch

that is working in this beautiful symbiotic relationship, and it's tough to separate one from the other. Yeah, I agree. Who do you have at nine? So, so Stamco's is my ninth. Oh, wait, sorry, that was nine, sorry. So my eighth is Anzee Kopitar. Yeah, he is my eighth as well.

Yes. You know, it's nice to see that he's bounced back offensively this year, as the Kings as a whole have. You know, last year he was, I think, shot 8%, and that obviously wasn't going to continue. And I believe he hit the post a ton, too. And it just seemed like he was a perfect regression candidate. And sure enough, he's almost,

match his goal total already this season. And so that's nice to see. And, you know, as a whole, sort of the underlying numbers have taken a bit of a hit with this new system the Kings are running. But based on the success they've had and how many more goals they're generating, I think we've gotten our answer to the question of, you know, how much of a hit could they take in possession as long as the goals came up a bit because it seems like, you know, the brisk reward here has won out for them so far.

Yeah, absolutely. And you know how the, you watch, it's always sunny in Philadelphia. You know that science is a liar sometimes. Yep. Yeah, I felt that last year when I looked at Anzi Kobatar because like his course he went into the gutter, right? Like he had by all group measures a terrible season last year. And then I looked at, I compared like what he actually did individually

last year to the year before. And it was like point for point. nothing changed for Anzi Kopitar. Like he was the exact same player to like a ridiculously consistent degree. Both years he had the highest past success rate in the NHL for forwards. Like everything was the same. Great puck recovery guy.

Great defensive guy. Put up scoring chances. So I was like this guy, he's, it has to be down to his teammates. And then as I was doing this research, Travis Yose, of course, scoot me and wrote an article about how basically all of Copatire's struggles were down to his teammates. It was super obvious when you looked into it last year

that that was not on him that bad year. So I'm really happy that everything's balanced back for him. And I think there were some people that were confused that I had him ranked. I think I had him ranked 11th in my rankings for Sportsnet. But I have him a bit higher personally. I have him an eighth.

And since we already discussed him, and I didn't say anything. Guess laugh I had at 9. Okay, I'll take that. All right, let's take a quick little break here to hear from some sponsors and we'll pick up the top seven on the other end of things. Anyone can develop high blood pressure. In fact, 7.5 million Canadians live with hypertension every day.

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So seventh, I have John Tavares. He's great. What do you think about that? I like it. I have Steven Stamcoast there, as we've already discussed. Man, John Tavares, I have one spot ahead of that. See, this is the problem here, though.

I know what's happening here, and it's that you didn't rank Austin Matthews. Oh, you're right. So I think I'm just bumping all of my guys back one spot because we haven't mentioned Matthews yet, but you haven't accounted him. So I think we're pretty evenly matched here, actually. Yeah, I think we've almost got the same list. But you're right, I didn't have Matthews there.

That's a huge oversight. at least fans are going to get so mad at me. Yeah. Well, it's because you don't think he's a top 23 center. This is true. I actually think Matthews is terrible and should be on the wing, and they should trade them. Just like Howard Berger said. I mean, how soon before we started talking about Austin Matthews to Arizona?

I mean, they did just run through Eastern Canada and sweep all three teams. I mean, like, Austin Matthews for Ekman Larson, right? Straight up one for one. That's going to be the title of this podcast. I'm sure it'll generate some clicks. Yeah, and actually I was wrong. anyway, I have John Tavares one spot above that. I haven't met five.

All right, all right. So you're a bit higher on John Tavares than I am. I don't know. Do you want to get into the reasons for John Tavares love? I feel like you've been pumping up his defensive value for a while now here. Yeah, yeah. Like, I have so much respect for Tavares because he went from, you know, when he broke into the league, he was bad skater.

And now he, I wouldn't say he's like a phenomenal skater, but, you know, he has that breakaway speed that is so valuable in the NHL, especially in small distances. Like he can he can find space with his skating. He has become a better technical skater than average, I think. He's not Sidney Crosby with his feet, but he's still pretty good. He was terrible defensively three years ago. Like one of the worst centers to play as many minutes as he does in the NHL. And then a year ago, he was okay defensively.

And then last year he was like, Salky quality. So, like, you can see these little improvements that he makes to his game year over year. It reminds me a lot of Sidney Crosby when, like, remember when he broke in and he was terrible on faceoffs and everybody criticized him. And then the following year, he went, like, 62% on faceoffs or something ridiculous. Like, or when people said that he couldn't score. So he changed his stick and scored, like, 52 goals the next year.

Like, that's, like, John Tavares has that, like, single-minded, hardheadedness of, like, the super elite athlete. he's like, I can do this and I'm going to do it and nobody can stop me. And what he's been able to do in Long Island with very little in the way of offensive support and defensive support, let's be honest, is incredible to me. Yeah, and I wrote about this last week at greater length, but now that Matthew Burzow is playing as well as he is with Jordan Eberle in the second line, it's been kind of eye-opening. It's really fun to watch the Islanders because, you know, it just, it gives a different look. they can all of a sudden teams can't really just load up on that one tavera's line anymore

defensively and it's just you know the balance obviously um it's importance goes without it goes without saying but now that if this is actually something that's going to stick long term and they have this legit one to punch down the middle it obviously changes uh what our expectations should be both for the islanders this year and maybe there are chances to keep tiberas moving forward as well so i think uh i think i'll be pretty happy about that um so So, Demetri, are you saying that, like, a certain team that had three first-round picks in a row could have taken Barzal? I would have considered it.

I would have considered it, yes. Or, you know, the team that had Jordan Eberle could have also had Matt Barzal as well if they didn't trade that pick. Or you think you'd rather have Barzal than Griffin-Rinehart? Where is old Griff these days? Is he playing for the Chicago Wolves? I think so. Good times. Yeah.

That'll work out. Um, number six. Number six. This is a tough, this is a tough one here. This is a tough one because. Yeah. This is where it starts getting real tough, eh? Yeah.

Okay. I just kind of want to like list all six of my top guys here and then we could just discuss them. It feels ridiculous even putting an order on them. True. But I have Patrice Berger on here and. Whoa. He should probably be higher. I know.

Maybe. Am I being crazy for putting Austin Matthews ahead of him at this point? I don't think so, actually, no. I mean, I'm going to cheat and just shove Austin Matthews in there somewhere and like pretend that I named the top 11. Well, here's my top five. It's, I had Matthews 5, Barkaw 4, Malkin 3, Crosby 2, and McDavid 1. And I honestly, with those top 6, I feel like other than McDavid Crosby 1, 2, I guess. So from that 3 to 6 range, if you put any of those guys in any order, I would have.

trouble taking too much issue with it there's very little distinction between them obviously they all play different games and bring different stuff to the table but they're all amazing players who are you know no doubt about it number one centers and i feel very comfortable you know if they were number one center on my team that we could potentially win a cup so um i love all of those guys but yeah i put petrie's berger on at six here um and i don't really have a strong argument for why i just just felt like that was the right spot for him. All right. I had Barkov at 6, Bergeron at 5, Matthews at 4, Malcolm at 3, Crosby at 2, McDavid at 1.

Yeah. Listen, with Barkov, I just think it's remarkable. Like, if you look at every night and obviously, you know, like one game, coursey numbers are fraught with air and you shouldn't be, you know, putting too much stock in them but it's one of my favorite exercises is every night just look at the panthers numbers and it's like you know you have the barkov unit up top and then you just have this massive cliff and then it's pretty much everyone else and it's just remarkable how much of the heavy lifting they're doing and how little help they're getting and um i don't know i still don't know what

the general uh opinion on barkov is because you know he's still young and he hasn't had a lot of these accolades despite being picked high and he's playing in Florida so i wonder if you know casual fan uh in a different market appreciates how good he is at this point yet but um yeah he's he's damn good he doesn't really doesn't have any flaws in his game uh i guess beyond durability heading into the season and he's been fine so far so it looks like he's uh he's shedding that as well way to jinx it demetri yeah i apologize to sasha barkov and his family yeah you know who he reminds me of is Cobra, before the Stanley Cups, where, like, the people who paid attention to Corsi were like, man, this guy is like super good.

And everyone's like, who is this guy? But, yeah, he reminds me of the same kind of thing as Cobra, where it's just like, you know, they've got outrageous skill. They're incredible in all areas of the game, but they're just not as appreciated in the general hockey sense because they play in non-traditional markets and people don't watch them. And then Barkoff has the disadvantage of, like, L.A. has been a premier team in the NHL for the last six plus years or so, I would say. And the Panthers have not at all. And also, even in L.A. is, like, most obscure years, they are far, far, far more popular than the Florida Panthers are.

Yeah. And, you know, I said that the injury concerns have been real in the past. But, I mean, I feel like that's probably even an understatement. I'm looking at it as games played right now. it's 54, 71, 66, and 61 in his first four years in the league. So, yeah, you'd like to see that come up a bit. Another thing with him is that, you know, I feel like a lot of these guys we've mentioned on this list are, you know, they're elite five-on-five guys, but obviously they pad their numbers a little bit with power play success,

and Barcove's never really been that player, and he has only three power play points this season, and they're all assists as well. So I just, if you just look at what he does at five-on-five, I mean, he's just insane, And this year he's playing like 23 minutes a game or something as well. So just the workload and what he's asked to do on that team right now is mind-boggling. And he's been up to the task so far. So it's been pretty cool. We'll see.

Yeah, he's incredible. Really, really underrated. And yeah. And the only reason I have Patrice Bergeron ahead of him right now is because I just kind of have Patrice Bergeron on a pedestal of like until someone proves that they're more of an impact player than Patrice Bergeron, he's still. above. He's just, Patrice Bergeron is such a perfect hockey player. You know, like there's really nothing, no fault that I can find with him. To be that good in transition and defensively and then still be a relatively consistent 30-goal guy,

he's just, you know, there's no words to describe Patrice Berseran anymore. You know, Bruins fans call him perfect Patrice, and that's exactly what he is. And, you know, if he were to take a step down, I can't imagine how bad the person. Boston Bruins would be well Andrew I mean he's turning 33 this season so and it's gonna happen eventually and that's it will happen eventually but yeah it hasn't it hasn't really manifested itself yet he's still uh he's still pretty damn good yeah he's he's perfect patrice man yeah he's perfect patrice um so yeah the names we haven't mentioned yet matthews um you know what he's okay the thing that i'm always blown away by with him is how good of looks

he gets even though everyone that's playing against the Leafs presumably knows that he's their best player and is game planning against trying to slow him down and you know you see a lot of this with I mean the top guys in general

but you know I feel like Crosby especially it's like you just see these plays where if the defense just breaks down for a second or they let up in concentration for even a split second all of a sudden he's just like wide opened by himself around the net and you're just like how how the hell that happened and how did matthews

get there yeah and it it happens at least a couple times of games and a couple times a game and you know he he is a volume shooter but he's also like a crazy high uh high dangerous scoring chance shooter as well and um it's it's it's a pretty good combination for a guy with that much skill to be getting those opportunities and it's no surprise that he's going to be perpetually a 40 goal threat uh if he keeps getting those types of looks. Yeah, the only guy who has scored more goals in the league in their first 100 games that's currently playing than Austin Matthews is Ovechkin. And Ovechkin did it mostly as a powerplay score, whereas Matthews is mostly even strength.

And, man, like, I feel like that's a comparison that I would make in terms of what Ovechkin is in the power play, where he's able to get lost in coverage and, like, everybody knows that he's coming. but like the puck is going to Ovechkin everybody knows this is happening and then yet still he gets a couple looks every power play where you're like how is this still happening

like why isn't there just a guy dedicated to watching Alex Ovechkin but Matthews is like that at even strength and you know Ovechkin is more of a volume shooter than Matthews in terms of like he'll shoot from anywhere whereas Matthews is he gets the volume not as high as Ovechkin because nobody can but like you said the high danger scoring chances

nobody else in the league produces the high dangerous scoring chances that Matthews does. It's ridiculous. And he doesn't play that much compared to other star players. Like it's weird how Babcock has handled that. Like it's changed a little bit this year, but like last year Matthews wasn't a huge minute eater. He was definitely like fringe first line minutes kind of thing, right? So it'll be interesting to see if he can score even more often when he's playing like 21, 22 minutes a game like other superstars often do because I think he's got the chops for it. I think he's already really good defensively

that his transition game could use a little bit of work but we've seen that already this season. He's kind of taken a step. He's just so dangerous. Like watching him live for the first time this year at the arena, he reminds me of a shark where like you kind of don't really notice him and then all of a sudden there's this like huge burst of speed on a loose puck and it's in the net like before you even realize he has it. It's just out of nowhere this like vicious attack. from Austin Matthews and goalies just can't stop him like his shot I don't know if it's like the way his releases or the speed of the puck or what but he's able to pick spots that you know like I see him make great goalies look like fools game in and game out he's a new kind of player yeah I think it was

it was Robin Lennar who was talking about this earlier in the year but there is something you know the actual shot itself is remarkable in terms of you know the velocity's able to generate rate and how he's able to pick his spot anywhere on the net. But it is also sort of like just the angles he's releasing it from and still able to do that without really giving away too much. And yeah, you see that with like a guy like Philip Forsberg as well. It's just sort of the unpredictability where goaltenders and defensemen can't really get set and load up on it because, you know, if you do too early, then all of a sudden he can,

you know, make another move and shoot from a different angle. but you just never know when the shot's coming with him and it just makes him such a lethal threat. So, yeah, Matthews is pretty good. Malkin at 3, I feel like that's pretty self-explanatory. It's sort of similar to what you said about Patrice Bergeron. It's kind of, I'd like to see concrete evidence that if Ganyi Malkin isn't the third best player

in the third-best center in the league anymore until I adjust accordingly. So we haven't seen that yet. He's, you know, he obviously has certain flaws in his game, but just sort of the tour-to-force nature of his skill set. And when he turns it on, he's just absolutely frightening. And I still believe that his absolute peak A game might be better than anyone else is in the league when he really has it. So it's, yeah, it's kind of tough to, I feel like he's just kind of locked into this spot until further notice. Yeah, and like you said, that peak game that he brings, like, if he were to, like, if you were to bring that consistently, he'd probably be injured even more than he already is, which is, you know, like his main weakness in his, in his game.

The way he's able to play with, like, the weight of his body and the strength that he has, he's almost like, like, like, peak Eric Lindross in a way that he'll just, like, bowl through guys. when he like mad of guinea malcon is oh my god yeah oh my god man like it's one of the most entertaining things to watch in sports when when he gets mad and just wants to like destroy a game like he can just wreck everything and you know nobody understands what's going on except for malcolm like he's he's nuts but uh yeah like you said even when he's not at his best he's still probably in the top five you know uh if he were to have none of those great uh peeked games he'd still be there that he's he's remarkably consistent in that way even if uh his best games are kind of few and far between uh and then crosbie mcdham so before they played uh earlier

this season i know that you wrote sort of a an interesting little post about how they accomplish what they do in different ways and i think that's the most interesting thing to me still about this discussion because there isn't much practical value to, you know, who's better at Crosby versus McDavid. I understand why that generates, you know, that's such a good talking point and why that generates so many clicks. But for me, it's sort of this stylistic discrepancy where Crosby at this, especially at this point of his career, um, does things a certain way.

And then you just have, uh, you know, McDavid just coming in with his just pure natural, just raw speed. And that's, that, that's a fascinating component to me about this debate more than anything else. Yeah, I feel like we've talked so much about these guys that it's hard to figure out new things to say. But, you know, it's like Crosby remains the world's greatest grinder. And McDavid is the world's greatest skill player, even though, like, they're probably equally skilled. You know, Crosby has the same skill, but he plays the game like a fourth liner, who's just, like, amazing in ridiculous ways.

And I think Crosby will continue to probably put up more scoring chances than McDavid will, whereas McDavid will put up higher quality chances than Crosby will. And they'll score, you know, not, McDavid will outscore him over the next few years, but Crosby will still put up respectable numbers. Well, and Crosby is definitely the NHL's best combination of hockey player, soccer player, and baseball player, where it's like the stuff he does in terms of receiving the puck, I feel like is, more captivating to me and maybe just because I'm a hockey nerd than anything he actually does in terms of scoring goals or setting up goals. Like sometimes when he's just going through the neutral zone and a defenseman of his passes it to him

and it's like two feet behind him but he somehow still kicks it to himself or bats it out of midair and just keeps going as if it was a perfect pass. Like that's just, I mean, that's just on another level. And I imagine that's part of the charm of playing with him where he can make anyone he plays with looks so much better than they actually are.

Yeah, it's just incredibly, hard to like kill a play with crosbie on the on the ice right like whereas most players of a defenseman like intercepts a pass and just like sends it towards the blue line oftentimes it's gonna get out or like if you if a player's trying to break into your into your zone and you kind of like get your stick on the puck it's fine but then crosbie will like bat the puck out of the air and he still has it in a stick and all of a sudden you had that like quarter second of hesitation where you got the puck and you're like trying to turn the other way and now he's got a breakaway.

You know, like, he's just incredible in that way. And his footwork, again, is the envy of the NHL. I don't think anybody else is even close to him in terms of, like, that. The actual, like, multiple skill sets he has in skating. Like, one of my favorite things to do watching the Penguins is just to watch Crosby's ships and look at his feet because he does more different things than I've ever seen a hockey player do. He almost looks like a figure skater.

Like, his skill is just off the charts. I love watching Crosby, man. Like he's so good. And McDavid's in the same thing. It's just like you said in a different way, the speed. His goal, I guess it was like the first game of the year this year, the second goal that he scored, where I think it was against Calgary. They had like two guys back, like 30 feet in front of McDavid. And he's somehow with the puck blasted past both of them.

And like I understand Travis Hammack and Hamannick has had a really rough start to the season in Calgary. And he was the guy who was most victimized on that goal. So like you can, you know, say, okay, it was a bad player. But still, like, looking at that goal still, I think is probably the craziest goal I've ever seen in hockey. Just because I don't think any other player in the history of the game could score that goal. Like, there's dirty dangles that like Datsuk or Lemieux or Yager could make. But nobody else except for Connor McDavid could have scored that goal. Yeah.

Yeah. You're right about that, man. He's insane. I'm doing an oiler's deep dive with our buddy Jonathan Willis tomorrow. So I've got some McDavid takes in the can. I want to save those. But for now, is it because he's a giveaway machine and he's been traded?

Well, yeah. I mean, listen, we're hyping McDavid up now, but I'm going to bring him down a peg tomorrow. Don't you worry about that. Andrew, man, this was fun. I'm glad we finally started this top ten series, even if it took us an extra couple months. hopefully over the next week or two here we'll get to bang out some

some wingers and defensemen podcasts as well so people can look forward to that do you got any writing plans or any other projects you're working on right now not really just my regular five articles a week three for Sportsnet one for RDS one for sporting news and trying to get my podcast going again but it's you know scheduling as you know is very difficult and then I've got the new kid who there's always something to do whether it's changing a diaper or feeding so time flies you're an animal man I don't know how you do uh you do the five five articles a week I do like one and it it drains me I yeah put like four or five days into it's crazy um but you like it'd be a lot easier if it was like

opinion articles but like having to do like analysis five times a week every week like every sunday when I'm like finished my work I'm like ah my one day break and then I start like an hour later and dreading what kind of ideas I'm going to have to come up with for the next week. Because like five ideas a week is tough. Yeah. And, you know, I think we talked about this on our panel in Montreal a few weeks ago. But I think people would be amazed at how often you do a lot of the grunt work for an article and then realize there's nothing really there and you're going to kind of have to start from scratch.

So that's a look behind the curtain a little bit. It's an annoying part of the process, but it's a part of the process anyway. we got to yeah i'll call that uh writing about the montreal canadians this year i've never had more of a challenge to write about them than this year i just find them so boring and i feel like i've already said anything that i could say about that team but i have to write about them at least once a week yeah i think i noticed that when there was like 45 000 victor mette pieces in the first week of the season i was like oh this is yeah this is this is this seems like a sustainable formula yeah and now that he's struggling a little bit everyone's like

Like, what should we talk about? Arturi Lekanin's out. So there goes that positive. Jonathan Drewan slowed down. So there's just like, I don't know. Charlie Lindgren. Yeah. There you go.

And then he let in 11 goals in two games. So everyone's like, oh, crap. Yeah, we need something else. All right, man. I'm going to let you go to your writing and your baby duties. And we'll chat soon. All right. Talk soon, dude.

All right. Have it going. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud. at SoundCloud.com slash Hockeypedocast.