The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 208: The Art of Reporting

Episode Date: November 30, 2017

Elliotte Friedman joins the show to discuss topics such as: 1:20 Why the Ducks traded for Adam Henrique 5:36 Why the Devils traded for Sami Vatanen 9:31 Dealing with criticism in the media 16:53 The likelihood of the Oilers making a panic trade 21:04 The importance of a reliable backup goaltender 25:39 The lack of bad blood in the regular season 32:37 Making use of player tracking data 36:26 The Penguins playing possum 41:30 Career paths, cultivating sources, and 31 Thoughts Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Also sponsoring the show is FanDuel, the PDOcast's one-stop shop for Daily Fantasy Hockey. They've set up a contest for listeners of the show to compete in, which will be running every Thursday evening. To join in on the fun, just go to fanduel.com/PDO and make sure to let them know that we sent you. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. The Hockey PDOCast is brought to you by Get Down BP, which brings people together with a goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way. Progressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey P.D.O. cast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich. Welcome to the Hockey P.D.O.cast. My name is Dmitra Filippovich. And sitting across from me is Elliot Freeman.

Elliot, what's going on, man? No much, Dimitri. Good to see. We got you some great Vancouver weather in Toronto. I know. It just seems to follow me everywhere I go. Yeah. So hopefully the sound effects aren't too bad. We are on a pretty busy apartment suite in downtown Toronto, and there's a lot of car traffic outside. But I think it should be okay. It's atmosphere. Yeah, PDA guests listeners are used to hearing sirens and ambulances and all that because I live right across the street from the bridge, basically. So there's a lot of.

They're coming for you. That's what they hear. Yes. So, yeah, we chose to record on a pretty busy day. There's been a big trade today. There's essentially for all intents and purposes, a retirement. I mean, there's a lot going on. But let's start with a trade first.

you were saying this was the one that kind of caught you off guard. Well, sometimes you know when something's coming and you can predict when something's coming and other times it comes out of left field and you have no idea. And I know I'm supposed to be an insider, but I will confess that I had no idea of this one coming. I think we'd known that Anaheim was going to potentially move a D. You know, Sammy Vatten is a name we've heard in trade rumors before. But this specific deal for Adam Henrique, you know, it never was in my radar screen. So, you know, I really like Adam Henrique.

I covered quite a bit of New Jersey over the years. Their run to the 2012 Stanley Cup final, I really, I always liked dealing with him. I think he's a very interesting, funny guy. It's interesting. I think over the past couple of years, he kind of plateaued a little bit. Right. But I know he started working with Adam Oates, trying to find some new things about his game, and he loved being a New Jersey devil.

Yeah. So I'm sure that there's a part of him that is in total shock that he got traitors. It does feel like he's one of those guys that, I guess, just because he's been around for so long, like in the front of our consciousness. He's only 27 or 28 years old, and I looked that up today. I was like I would have guessed he was 31 maybe. So it just seems like he's been around forever, but I guess you kind of forget how early some of these guys come into the league. So younger, younger league now. And I think that Anaheim will be great for him.

You know, he's going to play around. You know, he's going to play around Getslaff and Kemp. He can play wing. You know, at the beginning, right now, you know, they've, Anaheim stayed in the race, you know, Derek Granite Center, Kevin Roy at Center. Yeah, Chris Wagner. Chris Wagner. And I think that's a lot of credit to how hard they play.

But, you know, the one thing about Henrique is he's a good team guy and he'll fit wherever they want him to fit. And on a team like that that's big and nasty and rough, there'll be room for him out there. So, I mean, obviously the Vatinin trade was rumored and we were expecting it for the longest time now. But do you think if the Ducks had been going down a different path this season and they actually had a good clean bill of health and Getslaff and Kester were in the lineup,

do you think they'd make a move like this? I think they would have eventually because I think they really felt, you know, that they had a lot of money invested on their blue line. And also, they have a lot of defensemen. One thing about Anaheim, man, they develop players. They do. They find guys.

And that's a team that does a really good job of drafting, developing and creating people. And, you know, I think, I do think that Bob Murray felt that there was a lot of money tied into his blue line and potentially was going to have to do something. The other thing, too, is, you know, John Gibson's on a real team-friendly contract, but if he is their goalie of the future, they're going to have to pay him. Which he looks like he is.

Yes, so they're going to have to pay him. And I think between all of that, they're aware of that. Well, I wonder, too, I mean, you look around and I feel like the Pacific Division especially is pretty wide open. I guess you could make an argument that Atlantic is at well, but at least the lightning are in that division.

But in the Pacific, I mean, there's, that no one's really established in stuff. Yeah, I guess, I guess. We're sitting here wondering if Vegas is going to make the playoffs. Yeah, they're one year plan.

I think also the Pacific is a bit of a throwback division in the sense that I think it's a faster division than it used to be. Like L.A. has decided to turn it up and Vegas, it seems to me, when I've watched them, a pretty quick team, but the ducks grind you

and the sharp. Stark still grind you and L.A. if they want to play that way, they can still grind you. And Calgary is one of the meaner teams too. Yep. So like they're still like that that Pacific Division is a bit more in the 80s than some other teams are. So some other divisions are. Right.

I think they play like those Anaheim L.A. games, Dmitri, like they're the best games I've seen this year. They play a nasty kind of hockey that we don't see a lot in the NHL. Yeah, I think that's probably, I mean, it probably doesn't get the credit it deserves because it is in California. because of the time zone, but it probably has the best rivalry going in the NHL. I agree. And they play the nastiest games.

Yes. The nastiest games. So I was looking up right now because I remember New Jersey was leading the Metro Division up until recently now. They're one point back of Columbus. And I'm kind of curious. And the Islanders are right there too. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just as we all would have predicted heading into the scene. It's completely flipped. Yeah. The devil's side of this trade is also fascinating to me because I'm a bit skeptical of that. And I have to admit, I know I understand why people, um, favor a guy of his playing style. I mean,

very slick skater can move the puck, has a great shot on the power play. And I just think maybe he might be one of those guys that might be better suited to be kind of a sheltered, second pairing role, but he quarterbacks your power play. But for the devils, I mean, it's all about sort of a who he's replacing sort of thing.

And I feel like the upgrade from whoever would have been playing in those minutes to that and now will be a pretty, pretty sizable leap for them. So I love that in their perspective. And, you know, they did go, hard after Kevin Chattankirk on Free Agency Day. They were looking for

a right shot D. It was interesting. They came into Toronto a couple weeks ago and I had a chance just to talk to a couple of their players very briefly. And Taylor Hall said one thing that really stood out to me. Like, I mean, we all know how much Taylor Hall burns to make the playoffs. And I said to him, you know, do you say this is the year?

This is the team. And he was really good about it. He said, not yet. But I think we're going to be right there, but I don't want to jinx it, basically. And he said, we score more than I think we all thought we were going to, but we give up chances. We depend a little too much on Schneider and Kincaid. And so he kind of thought that they might go after one more D,

and I think he knew obviously what they were talking about. So this is their move to get some depth on D. And I agree with you, it's probably a bigger role than Vatten would have got in Anaheim, but you know, you never know until you put a guy there how he's going to do. And Jersey's going to give him a chance to show he can handle that responsibility. Yeah, no, I'm very curious. I mean, his 5-15 numbers were sort of hit or miss, but, you know, he was playing a lot with

Kevin BXA who's on his last legs here at 5-1-5. So I'm curious to see how they use him, who he plays with, whether he can take on that opportunity. A lot of teams like Fatton, though. Yeah, well, I mean, it's easy to see why. He has the talent. There were a lot of times over the years that Anaheim could have dealt him and didn't. Someday we're going to figure out, like, there's one guy who told me that about, two years ago, there were about four teams that thought they had a Galchaniac deal done.

And I think Vattenen was potentially one of them. So maybe someday we'll figure out what all happened. I'm very curious to hear that list. Yeah, with the devils, I mean, listen, they're obviously playing over their head. I think they're due for a bit of a regression here. But the one point I will make is Vatinin really fits in with this sort of style they seem to want to play under John Heinz, which is this much faster base. They want to be fast. Free flowing game, which the New Jersey Devils have not been associated with in the past. sometimes that as you mentioned might lead to giving up more scoring chances coming the other way than might be a bit too rich for their blood but it's as a fan and a viewer it's been pretty

entertaining to watch they're a fun team to watch like i remember i tweeted like earlier this year like fun game with the devils and even devils fans were tweeting me like i'm not used to hearing that i know it's weird but you know hines comes from pittsburgh shiro comes from pittsburgh and they always like playing up tempo. And, you know, I think Taylor Hall allows you to do that a bit. You know, I think his share will allow you to do that a bit. Like, you know, I think they have some guys. To me, the most interesting thing about it, Dimitri, is that we've got a league here where depth is, it's so hard. And the 31st team has really done it. Like, it's so hard to find four lines now that can score. And New Jersey's got guys like Gibbons who are scoring at rates. They've never

scored at four. It's like 35 goals. I know. And it'll be interesting. to see like how long does it last. Right. But the one thing I like is I like seeing like, like, I like to see like teams do, I don't like to see teams be bad or dull for a long period of time. New Jersey needs this. And I think it's good for them that they're getting it. They do.

Yeah. Yeah, there's an infusion of young talent. I mean, you didn't mention like Jasper Brad and, you know, Pavl Zaka, you go on the line. So it's kind of weird to. And Zaka can't even play. Yeah. Like, that'll be interesting to see if this gets them a chance to play. Yeah.

Yeah, so I'm curious to see how Vatin and fits in on this. Let's talk a little bit about the Oilers, I guess. Now, we made it 10 minutes without talking about the Oilers yet, so I'd be like in today's day, that's pretty good for us here. You obviously, I think the lead of your 31 thoughts this week was about sort of the Jordan Eberle, Taylor Hall comments about how the media impacts it and the self-confidence idea and whatnot. I don't know.

Where do you stand on it for people that haven't read that piece? I think that in this day and age, like, it used to be that players would say, like, you don't understand what it's like to be in an 18,000-seat arena with everybody booing you. I think it's different now because with social media, if you make a mistake or you write a bad blog or whatever, people are going to let you know. Like, you know, I'm lucky. I have, I think, 350,000 Twitter followers. If one, like I tell people this, if one percent of that group decides they hate something you say on TV or you write, that's 3,500 people coming at you. So you kind of have an idea of it. So I think in this day and age, nobody gets away unscathed.

You know, it's interesting. Like, I'm a big believer in, like, when it comes to Twitter now, if somebody really wants to come after me, I ignore it. Do you check your mentions? I do. You know, because I'm curious. Right. But I don't check them a lot, a lot less than I used to. So if I miss something, I will miss it.

Right. I laugh at them a lot more. Like, I still get racial slurs. I still get people who say to me, like, how many cheeseburgers did you eat before? before you went on air today. Like, that stuff doesn't bother me anymore. You know, I never really did a lot, but they don't, it doesn't bother me at all. I think that, you know, in a perfect world now, Dimitri, you shouldn't face that stuff,

but you do. Yeah. Like, and you have to understand that that is part of the way it is. You are going to get that. Even before Twitter, I remember one day I was working at the score, and I did this commentary on how Mark Messier might not make the 98 Olympic team. and some guy left me a voicemail just saying like typical Jew

who's ripping a great Canadian like Messier. And so I think that you have to recognize that you're going to get that. The one thing I always say to players who ask me about is number one, I talked about the story about how one player said to me like I see what you guys say to me on TV

about me on TV. And I say like really how much should this bother you? You're in the NHL. You know, the thing I said, I can't write in a family blog what I said. I said people would give their left not to trade their lives with yours. You're in the NHL.

You're making a good living. You know, you're making great money. What do you care? Like, why are you worried about this? I think it's human nature, though, right? I think, but you know what? I think some people make it worse on themselves. Yeah, for sure.

Like families and friends, I always tell families and friends, don't tell people what's said on TV because it's always broken. and telephone and you always make it sound worse. Yes. And I think they should ignore their friends and families or tell them don't repeat this to me. But I think like me now, like I get stuff set at me on Twitter or written in blogs about me or people who are critical of me. I've had newspaper articles written about a bad job I might have done.

The only time I will ever reach out about it is if there is something so factually wrong that I feel I have to address it, which is almost never. Right. And I'll tell you, since I've written. this, wrote that blog, Dimitri? I've had people in the game, players, coaches, and execs reach out to me and say, you're still too soft if you care that much. You shouldn't care. You should understand that's part of the deal. And it's a mindset. And if you let your mindset crumble, you'll let it bother you. You should be stronger than that. I'm amazed at how many people

in the hockey world from all different parts have actually reached out and said, you should be able to handle that. Yeah, it's tough. I mean, it definitely, I think it comes with the territory, and it's one of the unfortunate parts of the industry, but sometimes you just can't help what kind of, you know, what, what, what hits you the wrong way? I mean, sometimes you just, you can be feeling super confident. You have a bad day.

And all of a sudden, you look at something and it just, you react to it differently than you might have any other day, right? You just never really know. Everly, I'll tell you this. Everly, I have, I've had some very interesting comments to me about Everley. Number one is that he sought out some of that stuff, which he should never do. And the second thing is, and this is what somebody raised in his defense, was there was a time where a TV guy went hard after Eberley for the way he was playing. And I know, I heard that the Oilers coaches showed it to him.

And he was really upset. And what was said really bothered him. And I think that, and I have been told. told that that stuck with him for a long time. So I think that sometimes it is a motivator by a coach to say this is what these guys are saying about you. And I think in Everly's case, it really bothered him. I think he was called lazy.

And I think it really bothered him a great deal. Yeah. Well, he seems to be enjoying his newfound freedom. It's quieter there. There's no question about that. Yeah. Especially playing with Matt Barzal probably doesn't really. Very talented guy.

Yeah, well, when you were talking about how the coaches showed him that, I was thinking of, do you see that anecdote from Danny Breyer's book about Michelle Tarian? Actually went out of his way to tell him that no one likes them or whatever. Yeah, sometimes there's some tough love in this industry. You know what? It's interesting because I saw a couple interviews with Breyer where he was saying, I'm disappointed that this is getting all the attention because for the most part, I had good things to say about Montreal.

You know, Dimitri, I'm a big believer in my sense. is I don't handle compliments very well. I'm appreciative, but I don't handle them very well. I know when I do a good job and I know when I do a bad job and nobody's tougher on me than me. I think it's one of the reasons I've been fortunate enough to get where I am. But I think people are generally soft. Like sometimes I think now people don't take cortisism very well. You don't handle it very well.

And I'm not trying to sound like like, you know, my grandfather, like I went up, I walked uphill both ways. school. Back in my day. But I do think that a lot of even constructive criticism now gets terribly misinterpreted. And I think people generally don't listen to each other. Right. Like Twitter, which I used to really like, has now become a cesspool for a lot of different reasons. But I think that I think that the real big problem is that I don't think people know how to handle even constructive criticism anymore. Yeah? Yeah. Elliot, if you want to leave Twitter, I'll gladly take your Twitter follow us off. I got to stay on it.

When I retire, I'll be off social media. I'm going dark. Yeah, so, I mean, sticking with the Oilers here, I don't want to say, what would you put the odds at? But do you think there's a chance or a likelihood here that Peter Shirelli will make some sort of a panic move based on this is on? I don't think he will because I think he's really tried to avoid it. I think if he wanted to, he would have done it already.

Right. You know, I think he's looking at Ian Cole. I do. You know, I think he's trying to, like, you know, for example, they made the one move already, Yokinan, for Camilleri, and I think he's also trying to move Packer Rinan out. I don't know if that's for a roster spot or salary or flexibility or whatever he's doing there, but I heard that the other, I heard that today that, you know, he kind of put his name out there. I think he is trying to do things, but I think he is also trying to avoid that panic move that really kills you. I haven't spoken to Peter about this, but, you know, I think that he's been stung by some of the criticism about the Hall Larson deal. And I think he's, I think he, if he makes, if he trades a big piece like a Nugent Hopkins, he wants it to be viewed as a home run.

So I don't think it's going to be very easy for anyone to get Nugent Hopkins. Yeah. I feel like everyone is just waiting for an R&H trade to happen. I'm not convinced it's going to happen. Like, guys have told me that Edmonton's price is very high. As it should be. As it should be. I think Ryan Newton Hopkins is a pretty good NHL player.

I mean, you see what Adam Henrique went for. Yeah. And, yeah, you should be asking for that. I mean, the thing with, like, when you mentioned Ian Cole and stuff like that, like, I'm just not sure how much that moves the needle for them or what that really does. Because I think the flaw with that team right now is when Connor McDavid's not out there, they're super slow. And I'm not sure what, I mean, Ian Cole's, what does he really do to move the needle for? I don't know.

few moves the needle. Like, you know, the one thing is I liked, even though McCullen doesn't like it, I like the idea of playing those guys on three separate lines. Oh, absolutely. We saw Pittsburgh win a Stanley Cup doing that. And what Edmonton has to do is they have to find the sherrys, the shirys, the Gensels, and the Russ. Right.

That's what they've got to do. And, you know, that's what they have to find. You know, I think Edmonton is closer to the team they were last year than this year. You know, Cam Talbot has not been the same. same, which is a major factor. But, you know, I went to their morning skate in Buffalo last week, and, you know, I do think the

speed thing is a big issue. Peter Shirelli disputes that. I'm with you, Dimitri. I think that is an issue. But I also think that one of the things I've learned over the years is that it's hard to go from a team that isn't expected to win to a team that is expected to win. And I

think these guys are learning that the margin of defeat in this league is very thin. And if you aren't paying attention to the details and you aren't invested all the time and you don't play well all the time, you're going

to lose. And I think this team is I think the expectations to some degree, they've learned that it's hard to meet those expectations. Yeah, and they were lofty expectations. They were the betting favorite to come out of the West this year. I mean, that's tough to live to. If you were asking the year, like who was the Canadian pick to win the Stanley Cup? It was them.

Yeah. Yeah, it's been, I mean, it's still early on, and there are positive kind of things to take away from looking at the numbers, but there's also a bunch of red flags and sort of everything that's good. Everything that we thought could possibly go wrong with, you know, last year they had great health. Calvert was able to play 70 games and hold up very well. All this stuff, all of it's kind of deteriorated. I agree. Like Talbot, the goaltending is a big deal. Like I look at Ottawa too.

And last year, Anderson and Condon were unbelievable. And this year, they've struggled. and that's a major reason why Ottawa is where it is. Look at Kerry Price. A week ago, we were ready to burn down Montreal. He comes back healthy. He's won three games in a row. Everybody's in a great mood.

Alan Vino has a great line. He says, if my goalie is better than your goalie, I win. If your goal is better than my goal, you win. A lot of the time, that's what this league is. It sounds overly simplistic, but that's really the formula. I do think that's like, you know, the league is getting smarter, and there's so many fewer places to get a competitive industry. advantage and kind of it's tough to rip off teams anymore in trades or really kind of you know hit

home runs in the seventh round like the red wings are doing for all those years by taking European guys one place I do still feel strongly about is the backup goalie position in NHL I feel like still needs to be fleshed out I mean you know you're talking even with the Leafs for example like I think they would probably tell you themselves that Curtis McElaney probably isn't the long-term fit there and they're going to try to figure out with sparks or Picard what's going to happen there but a lot of these teams it's kind of a tough balance because you don't want to put your young up-and-coming guy and that's bought because he's never really playing.

He's going to play. Like that's what Pittsburgh was with Tristan Jerry. Yeah. And now we're going to get to play. But so you have all, what you wind up having is all of these sort of hockey lifers that have been recycled from team to team and they might not be the most optimal option,

but you can kind of just have them on the bench and then use them once every couple weeks. But we're seeing that the margin for victory and defeat is so thin in the NHL. And with all these, you know, three-point games, the standings are so tight. I feel like every one of those points is huge. And, you know, being able to rely on your backup goalie is quite a big of a luxury.

You know, it is. But the other thing, too, Demetri, is that in the cap world, you're looking to shave money wherever you can. Right. You know, how much abuse to Dallas take the last couple of years because they had two goalies making $10 million. Right. And it didn't work for them. And, you know, I think that you're right. You can't afford to give away points now.

But, you know, I do remember last year. in the week before free agency, you know, Philadelphia went quick, Brian Elliott. You know, Pittsburgh had to find a cheap option. They went for Niemie.

Steve Mason ended up in Winnipeg. And Winnipeg hemmed and Hodd there. Mike Condon got a three-year deal in Ottawa because Ottawa was terrified that Toronto or Buffalo was going to get them. Calgary, I don't think Eddie Lack was Calgary's first choice, but all of a sudden you're sitting there at the table

and you're going, the options are drying up. And Toronto, I'm not sure. McAulani was Toronto's first choice, but once again, their options were drying up. So, you know, I think that what happens is, is you want to have a great backup goalie, but you don't want to spend a ton of money there. And you're right.

You don't want somebody wasting away. It's a tough battle. And also, too, the other thing, too, Dimitri, that's changed now is the 31st team, and we're going to go to 32 eventually. The depth, it's really hard to be. deep now. Mark Messi had a great quote to me once. In the salary cap era, everybody has a fatal flaw. Who can best handle their fatal flaw? So do you think there's enough talent in this league to support 32 teams? I think the players are better than ever. Yeah. More in terms of skill,

but there aren't the superstars. You know, I think, you know, the one thing I do think, and I don't know how long it's going to take until we really realize this, but the summer training is changing. It's not all about strength anymore. It's now, and actually Peter Sorrelli was the guy who told me this last year. He said, Connor McDavid goes out in the summer

and he just fiddles around with the puck. Yeah, he works out here and there, he works in getting stronger, but he goes on the ice and he just fiddles around with the puck. And he said that there's more players now who just go on the ice and screw around with the puck than ever and they love it and you know I can't tell you

how many more and more like Eric Johnson told me last summer that he's been a guy who's been in the league for a decade now he did less strength training than ever he just went on the ice and fooled around with the puck and I think all these guys

are working harder to refine their skills Riley Shane today at Pittsburgh practice told him I said what's the biggest thing you learn it with the penguins he goes how like they all stay on the ice after practice to fool around with the puck. Yeah. So I think the skill level is rising. I think the question is going to be is how many scores does that create? And I think we're a little bit away from knowing the answer.

So right now I would say no. Right. But in the future, I'm curious to see if that changes. Yeah, I think so, especially with, I mean, if you compare where the league's at now to maybe where I was five years ago or 10 years ago, especially, it seems like at least, it's at least headed in the right direction. So there's a reason for optimism that maybe five years or now when the league is ready for a 30-second team, it seems like.

I'll tell you this, though, Dimitri, I miss some of the hate. Yeah? I do. I never worry about the playoffs because the playoffs are phenomenal. Like, you know, there's a lot on the line, and those guys play hard. But I think there are too many regular season games that miss the hate.

Like those Anaheim, L.A. games are phenomenal a watch. That Detroit-Calgary game that boils, over. Like, nobody was turning the TV away from that. You don't want bench clearers or line brawls every night. You know, we're having a big debate about concussions now, and I do think it's a very serious topic. But, you know, Ken Dryden's book talked about how you've got to stop with finishing the checks

and stuff like that. I think the league has changed a lot that way. I think we see less hitting than ever before in the regular season. I think we see a lot. of, I wish there was more passion in the regular season. You still get some games, but there's not enough. Yeah, I mean, it's tough. 82 games is way too many to begin with.

Yeah, it's a tough schedule. You have to pace yourself. Yeah. Like, if you played balls in the walls every single night, you know, treating it like it was a playoff game, you probably would not make it through the end of the regular season. You're right. I would like to see a little bit more of it, though.

Yeah. Like, I understand. Like, you got to be concerned about safety, absolutely. But I think the amount of regular season games that are, Like just, we're going to run through each other tonight. There's not enough of them. No, no, agreed. Let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor,

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entry into the NHL breakaway contest with thousands of dollars in cash prizes guaranteed to pay out when you make your first deposit on Vandul. Just visit Fandul.com and sign up with promo code PDO void where prohibited. Now let's get back to the show. We talk about the oilers. We talk about the trade. What else is peaking your interests these days? What's blowing up your phone?

You know, I'm just my buddy. A couple of my buddies just calling. They were trying to make dinner plans for next week if we can get together. I mean, we could talk about the dinner plans. No, no, no, no. Me and my, we have a group of six of us from my school. school or good buddies, but we all got families now, so we can't see each other as much. It's tough for to make time, man.

You know, it's like six guys trying to make plans. It's impossible. Six fathers trying to make plans. It's impossible. You know, I think I'm really interested in a couple of things. I'm really interested in the e-sports thing. I'm not a gamer. I don't play video games. My kid is six. He's not into video games yet. He likes cover orange. That's about it. but I'm fascinated by this because you know in the last couple of years there's been a lot of talk about where the next revenues are going to come from like where is the game going to grow right and I think the e-sports one is a big one

and I'm very curious to see what they're going to roll out next year because I'm fascinated by the whole level of it and the NBA is starting their league next year and Toronto is going to be involved so I'm really curious about it you know I'm also very curious about the player tracking. I'm fascinated by the stat cast and baseball. And I know the NFL is working on theirs and they're hoping to have something out in the next year or two. And I know the NHL, it was on the agenda at the GM meetings in Montreal, but I don't think they talked about it. I think this is something like all the debates we have about what really matters. I think that

when the player tracking finally comes, it's going to erase a lot of those questions. but I wish it was faster. I think, and you know what, I'm always fascinated by the great players, like the McDavid's, the Matthews, the Crosby's. I love watching these guys, and I can't watch it off of it. Yeah, well, the player tracking point, I feel like endeared yourself to our listeners

because that's something we talk about a lot on this podcast. Okay, so what kinds of things do you guys talk about? I just can't wait. It's going to open up so many doors and possibilities for us just to like test stuff that you know i have i have various theories about stuff okay so give me some of your theories well one of them right now is so you know in mb a mb a bha for example you can track uh the concept of sort of a star player's gravity or how much he attracts the defense the defense and opens up space for his teammates so for example in basketball

like a lebron james opens up corner threes for his teammates all the time because the defense is sagging on him right yep and i strongly believe that you know a guy like tj o's she certainly would not have scored 30-something goals last year if Alex Ovechkin wasn't drawing that attention from his left circle on the power play a lot. NHL is such a quick game of inches. A fraction of a second, extra breathing room can mean all the difference in the world to some of these guys. So stuff like that is what I'd love to see, like, which players attract the most sort

of secondary help from another defender or attract the most attention. Stuff like that, I feel like would be fascinating. Maybe it wouldn't necessarily have, you know, strong predictive value or, tell us that a guy is going to blow up in a couple years, but in terms of telling stories and being descriptive about what's happening and what we're seeing with our eyes, stuff like that is fascinating. Yeah, I agree with that. You know, I'm very interesting.

I know there's a bunch of teams that are using it now. And, you know, I've been told that a couple of the issues are, number one is I think players and the Players Association are worried. For example, let's just say that, okay, let's pick, okay, you mentioned T.J. O'Shoe, okay, so he's signed an eight-year contract. Right. doesn't have to worry about this.

But let's just say that, you know, T.J. Yoshi's a guy who skated at this particular average speed for seven straight years. And in year eight, and maybe it's a contract year, all of a sudden he's skating at X minus this. Right. And I think that the Players Association's worried that,

oh, well, his hip's only firing at 75% power compared to what it did last year. We don't want to sign him because he's on. on the way down. Right. And I think that's one of the big fears. I think that's one of the things that stands up in the way and blocks it. And I think there are some players now who trust the teams that are looking at their

information. And I think there are some players now that maybe don't trust the teams in terms of what they're seeing. I'm going to guess the guys that trust that are the ones who look favorably with the numbers. I think it's not only that, but I think it's also do you trust your organization. Right. And, you know, I don't want to say who. but I know there's because I can't prove it yet.

Right. But I know there's one team where they really trust their guy. Like they really, but I know there's one team out there where they don't. Yeah. And it's a problem. Well, I mean, with a players association argument, I mean, you can make the case that there's another segment of players

that could potentially get more money or get new contracts that wouldn't have otherwise if you could sort of prove that they bring value. The guys who would be losing money. That's right. They always will, they will always go there. Right. Which I guess is what a union is supposed to do. right? Yes. So, you know, like that's what they do. The other one it's interesting is, you know,

for example, if they decide they want to make money off this, which they always do, who owns the rights? Right. Like I assumed it would be a 50-50 thing. Like it's the, it's 50% owners, 50% players. But what if the players are, you know, no, no, no, these are our bodies, we own it. Right. Well, I feel like during the next lockout, there's going to be plenty of times. I argue these God, don't say that word. I don't want another one of those. Yeah. Yeah, so the player tracking, okay, you mentioned that. The star players, yeah, you know what?

The other day I was looking, it's such a, like, non-sexy topic these days, but I was looking, and Sidney Crosby had a couple really good games here where he racked up a handful of points, and he obviously had the overtime winner against Philly. Yeah. All of a sudden, he's back over a point of game, I believe, and it's one of those things where it's just, you know, with all this new wave of guys with the McDavid's and the Matthews, as you mentioned, no one really talks about Crosby. anymore and he still just

he does stuff that no one else can do he's the best player in the league and when people say McDavid when McDavid says I'm not the best player in the league it's not because he's being modest it's because he knows who won the Stanley Cup last year and who was the major reason right and he is the best player in the league

and I think he's got a lot of Michael Jordan in him like I covered the NBA when the Raptors came in and I got a little bit of exposure to Jordan and the one thing like there's a story about Michael Jordan I always tell and that is that, you know, when the Raptors traded Damon Stottomire, their first game after that was against the Bulls.

And they'd beaten the Bulls a couple times, but they weren't going to beat the Bulls this time. They had eight guys, and Jordan came in at the height of his powers. They were still winning NBA titles, and they got killed. And in the first half, it was a 25-point game at the half, and Jordan only had three points. And back when I worked in radio, my seat was right near the visitor's bench. So it was a great seat, and I remember, like, they came out for the second half, he took a few shots, he got ready to go to the bench, and Phil Jackson right in front of me, walked up to Jordan and said, Michael, this game's a joke.

Like, you can sit out the second half. And that was when they played at the dome. Right. They'd have 36,000 people there. Yeah. And he said, no, I haven't given these fans their show yet. Yeah. So he goes out in the third court.

He scores 19 points. It's ridiculous. The game's terrible. And he walks off the end of the third court, and he goes to Phil, okay, now he can take me out. I give him their show. And, you know, he always found a reason to be motivated. And Crosby's like that. Yes.

And I think last year it was everybody saying McDavid's better. Right. And now this year it's everyone's saying he can't three Pete. He always finds a reason to be great. And I have a huge admiration for that. Well, yeah. I imagine his next thing or a next motivating factor is going to be the, you know, like fighting off the age-related decline and people saying, you know, can he still do it?

Is he still the same guy? Right now it's three-peat. But yes, he will get together at some point. In a few years, I can see those stories happening already. You know, they have a guy there, Pittsburgh, Andy O'Brien, who they hired and now runs their sports science. Like him and Crosby have worked together for a long time. And, you know, I think there's, you know,

someday when Cid's career is over, we're going to find out what he really thinks happened. I know there's a real sense that it wasn't concussion. It was neck. That that was the issue. His neck was out of alignment. And I think this guy, like, Sid's smart, and Andy O'Brien's a really smart guy.

you know, I think that, you know, I really think that that that is something, Dimitri, I believe 100% that he will say I want to beat. Yeah? Yeah. Well, I wonder, I guess it's counteracted a bit by how many playoff games they've played the past few years, but I also, I wonder, you know, he missed all those games a few years ago, and maybe that extends his prime a little bit because of less wear and tear on his, on his tires, but I guess, you know, they keep making the cup final every year that adds up as well.

Yeah, you know, it was funny. I was talking to them today, like, you know, how do you guys feel this, feel harder? And they weren't going there. And I know they did feel like, like, it's funny, the West teams hear this, and they go absolutely crazy because they hate when the Eastern team complain about road trips. But I think they've played more road games than everybody else. They've had a lot of their travel already. They know that their back half of their schedule is, especially now they got some breaks.

Right. And, you know, they don't care where they finish. Just get in. And then you're going to have to deal with us. Yeah. I think they're very comfortable going into the playoffs no matter how. Yeah, it's one of those tough things to balance as an analyst because you sort of have to acknowledge that, you know, there's some worrisome red flags and their performances dipped a little bit this year and there's cause for concern. But at the same time, like, there's that analytical component.

And then there's the sort of like kind of just listening to your heart and just going like, well, you know, they have Crosby Malk and Kessel, Letang, if he's healthy. And as long as they make it, I guarantee not a single team out east is going to want to play. Nobody wants to play them. It'll be interesting. Like they miss Cullen and they miss Benino. Right. And they really tried to get Dushin. Right.

But they didn't have, like if you look what they got, Pittsburgh couldn't match that. And, you know, I'm curious to see what, I'm curious to see what Jim Rutherford's going to do because he likes to gamble. And I think, like, he's really, he understands now it's going to be hard for him to get the assets he needs to make some of these deals. So I wouldn't be surprised if maybe he does some circular things. to get more assets and then uses those. I think he could be really interesting to see it. Well, and they still haven't had their annual, you know, random winger from the HL comes up and likes the world on fire.

I don't know who that's going to be this year. Whether it's going to be Sprong or somebody else. Yeah. So, you know, you mentioned a bit there where you're covering the NBA earlier in your career. Yeah. You know, we're wrapping up this podcast here. And I know that listeners really enjoy when whenever I have someone on to sort of talk about your career path and sort of, you know, the ups and downs

and what you've gone through to get to this point. And I think, you know, for someone like yourself, especially working as an insider, I'm always fascinated by, you know, cultivating and then maintaining sources and that part of your job. Just sort of, I don't know, I don't know what the best way to put this is,

but like how did you transition into becoming an insider or like how did you start, cultivating those resources to do your job what you're doing right now. You know, I think for one thing I was always, the one thing I was, that I was always a good reporter. And I like reporting. I like asking questions. I like finding out about things.

I like, you know, I like determining, I like learning. Like I'm a big learner. What can I learn today? What could, like I'm watching your setup here,

Dimitri. Like I've never done a podcast before, though I think one's coming. And I'm watching your setup here. I'm interested in this. I'm like, how does this work? How does that work? You know, what kind of microphones do you use?

Like, I'm like that. I'm naturally curious. So I think that helps. You know, I think what it is is that, you know, I was always a good reporter. I had a good eye for that. I went to at University of Western, a good student newspaper that put a lot of people in the business. And at the student newspaper, they didn't screw around. Like, they taught you how to report and to write and things like that.

I was always a big reader and I think that helps you write. I think I would anyone listening to this who wants to go into reporting, you got to read. Yes. Because that helps you. You know, how did it go? Like you start at the bottom. You, you know, I went to tennis. I went to golf.

It wasn't just big tennis. It was like it covered Sun Life nationals when they still existed. I covered Ontario Golf Association tournaments when back in the day. And I think the thing is you get seen. Like suddenly you get a chance. You get to go at the fan to cover like the leaf, a leaf practice. Right. And, you know, are you quiet?

Do you just follow the pack at the beginning you do? But you say, okay, like, how do you ask other reporters? Like, how do you get there? Yeah. And, you know, I remember one reporter once saying, you know, one of the best pieces of advice that can give you is, hi, how are you doing today? Like sometimes just saying that to a player,

or you're walking by or an execure walking by can start a conversation that gets you something. And I think, you know, like, okay, are you critical, as I wrote in that thing, like, are you fair?

If you're critical, are you critical to hurt? Are you critical to say, this is why I'm critical? Right. Are you there a lot? Like, do they know your face? Like, when I covered the NBA,

a lot of those guys in the first couple of years, I don't think they knew my name, but they all knew my face. And I think that's important. Are you there a lot? do they see your work and what do they think of your work right um you know like does this guy treat us fairly is this a guy who's nice to our face or um you know is this a guy who's nice to our face and then carves us when we're not there um but i think also it's like how's the quality of your work

is it good is it interesting like the even i think players look at and say like do i learn something from that guy. And I think it's just putting your time in, I think, is what it is. Like, do you make calls? Like, you know, I try to, I try to make calls. I'm hearing this. Well, I'm not going to tell you, but I appreciate your calling. Right. You know, I remember there was another reporter a couple years ago wrote something and it was 100% right. But the other GM blew up at him and he called me and he said, did I make a mistake here? And I said, did you call the guy? And I said, no. And I said, well, I don't like to tell the people how to do right or wrong. But I would have called the guy and he goes, funny.

That's what he says. You owed me a phone call. And I said, you know, but they hammered it out. Right. Now, Dimitri, like, there's guys in the league who hate me right now. And there's two of them right now. Like, I fight with and I'm as mad at them as they are as, as I'm as mad at them as they are as mad at me. In the league or other reporters?

In the league. And you know what? It's going to happen. Yeah. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, Do you show you, are you around? Yeah. Like the fact I'm on Hockey Day in Canada helps.

Right. Because people watch. But I try to come out. I try to be seen. I try to make calls. I try to make available. You know, I reported a couple weeks ago that I thought Jeff Blashell might be in trouble.

And Detroit played Ottawa a few days later. And I went there. And it turned out he hadn't seen it. But I just wanted to see my face in case he wanted to say, in case he had heard it and wanted to say something. Right. Well, imagine it's a bit of a big, believer in that. Is there a bit of a tough of a balancing act sort of because, you know, I think

you do a really good job of obviously you have the sources and actual intel, but then sort of mixing it with actual kind of opinion or analysis as well. It's not just purely reporting. That's the first time that's happened on that whole podcast. Yeah, it's not bad. We're 43 minutes in. I guess they like that question. So I guess, you know, sometimes that could potentially get you in trouble. And I feel like in 31 thoughts, especially you sometimes give a disclaimer like I'm not reporting this. I'm just speculating or this is

what the feeling I'm getting from it. If you follow my work, you know that I get infuriated by the aggregators. Like I really do because you know, people say, well those are your words. I think in a lot of ways they're like a lot of them are really taken without context. You can't tell if I'm laughing. You can't tell if I'm

joking. And you know what? Radio for me was always like was like a bar. Like I'm at a bar. I'm having a beer and I'm talking sports. Yeah. And I believe that's what radio generally is. Unless I'm coming out and saying, I am reporting this, I think you have a lot of theoretical conversations.

Yeah. And now, unfortunately, the aggregating world has turned them into news. And, you know, Sportsnet's been guilty of that too. Yes. And I've had, and now they're better. Like, they listen to our concerns and I think it's really improved. But that's where I get. And so, yes, there's no question now, Dimitri.

I have toned down a lot of the things I've said because I'm worried about, I look at it and say, oh boy, like, how's this going to get turned in? And it's so funny because sometimes I'll be so worried about it.

I'm like, oh, this is going to be a disaster. And nothing ever comes of it. And I look at another sense, this is not going to go anywhere. And it turns, it gets blown it out.

And I'm like, man, do I have a terrible instinct? But I just think, like, I want people to know that if you're going to get mad, get mad at me. Right.

Like I'll tell you a story A few years ago It was two or three years ago There was a guy on a team I have a great relationship with They came through Toronto And I went to go say hi And he blew me off in the room I was like, that is weird

Like I okay, it's game day I'm not gonna bug him I'm not gonna text him Next morning before I could text him He called me And he said look I'm really sorry about that And I go okay like what happened And he told me

that a few weeks earlier, probably about six months earlier, he'd been in my blog, 30 thoughts, I'd talk to him about something. And then a few weeks after that, I had an anonymous quote from a player on that team. And he said, the GM called him in, pulled out the first column and says, here you are in the blog. Then he pulled out the second column, are you the anonymous player? Because this is BS. Right.

And it wasn't him. and he goes, no. And he said, but honestly, I didn't want to talk to you. I didn't want to be seen with you. Right. So I am very wary of that kind of thing. So I like it to be my thoughts so that nobody else,

no source gets in trouble or nobody tries to go after a source, and I deal with it myself. So what's, okay, walk me through the process of 31 thoughts on a weekly basis. Do you have like a little note pad of sort of you want to circle back to? But also I use the notes. Right. Actually, I was telling somebody

this story this morning. This is going to be too young for you. Have you ever heard of a guy named Brian Linehan? Okay, Brian Linahan, I believe he's dead now. He was an entertainment journalist. And he was phenomenal. Like, I was never big into interview shows

and I was a kid, but I would watch him because he would get stars on a show and he worked at City TV in Toronto. And he would interview them and they would be like, how do you know that? and one time I saw him interviewed and he said what I do is I go to a party

and I talk to everyone and when I'm done I run home and I write down everything I heard and he doesn't keep a notepad but he'll remember one word from the conversation and he'll put down that one word and then everything will come back to me in a phenomenal memory I was like that is awesome so when I talk to people now unless I'm writing down a direct quote and I'll say, let me pull out my notepad here and write it down.

I'll remember one word from the conversation and I'll write it down my notepad and then more will come or I'll write it down my notes on my phone and then more will come. So during the week, I'm constantly making notes. And then when I get closer to write it, I go through the notes and I'm like, do I have to call anybody to get more information? And I start making calls and I try to freshen it up and that. My wife's like, why don't you write half of it? earlier in the week, and I should,

but I feel better under a deadline. Yes. But that's kind of the way it goes about. And when I really sit down and do it, it probably takes about anywhere from seven to ten hours to do. I can't, I mean, I don't have that type of patience. I feel like if I, like, had some good nuggets, I'd, like, want to get them out there.

I couldn't wait for the week. In the world, it's changing. I have to be a lot more careful. I've lost a couple things because I've tried to wait. So that's changing now. But I like the challenge of it, Dimitri. Like, can I come up with something that people haven't read yet? Sooner will become just a 31 tweets column.

31 tweet, no, I hope that never happens. Me too. I like 31 thoughts the way it is. Yeah, I mean, back to the, just quickly circling back to the idea of reporting and sources and stuff, I actually wanted to share a fun story with you. I'm not sure if I'm sure you were privy to this information if I was, but I got an anonymous tip from a source back at last year's trade deadline that a deal for Mike Smith to the flames was done. And, you know, I ran it by Chris Johnston, who I'm very close with and kind of asked him about the protocol of how this stuff works.

And, you know, he was telling me to make sure I get a second source to verify it because you have to question why this person's telling me this in the first place, what they want me to do with it. and I couldn't get anyone else to confirm it really, and I'm kind of glad I didn't really do anything with it. I kept it to myself for the most part, and then a few months later, the exact trade that I heard about happened. So it's kind of interesting that it took that long. I don't know what the hiccup was, honestly, but.

Well, you know what that tells me, first of all, good, that you have a source that's that good. But secondly, I think that was very responsible of you. Like, you know, you don't want to, when you're starting out, like, you don't want to be wrong, right? And secondly, you know what that tells me too is that you have somebody there that you can trust. That's good intel. And that says to me that now you know that this person's word is pretty good.

And sometimes that's more valuable than anything else. Like there are people who call me or text me or whatever. And when they reach out to me, their word is gold because they've always been good. I still check, but I'm like, oh, this guy's a good source. go but there are people who reach out to me and I'm like I'm not sure here right so now you have a person there that you can say that this person they're pretty good yeah and if they're sending me info I should really look into it yeah you know I think you know what I think demetri I really believe this in this day and age that everybody out there is looking for that edge on a team so if you do

good work they're going to find you yeah they're going to find you like you look at how many People that have done work on the internet have been snapped up by teams now. They're looking for people. They know who's out there. Yeah. Well, maybe, you know, one of these days, as more and more of those people get into the front offices, I'm going to build up some pretty good sources. We've seen it happen. Yeah.

Like, you know, I believe Travis Yose was the first got to report that Alexander Radula was signing in Montreal. Right. So, like, you know, I think that's going to happen. Like, it's interesting. Like, God only knows where we're going, right? Like, the world is changing faster than we know. But, like, you know, some people don't like the pressure of being on top of breaking trades. Yes, I can imagine.

I mean, it's probably very rewarding when you nail one. But also, you know, you're looking at your phone all the time. And you have people who tweet that comes to your phone. And you're like, oh, man, there's days you feel great because you got it. There's days you feel annoyed because you got. beat. Right. You know, it's,

do you view it as a bit of a, as a competition against some of your peers? No, I think we do. Yeah. You know, I think our bosses do. Right. But you know what?

Yeah. In some ways, like those guys are great guys. I really like them. But I want to beat them. In some ways, we're like the players. Yeah.

You want to win. You want to win. Right. All right. I think this is a good, good place to sort of put a pin in the conversation. I know, was there anything else that we should have covered?

I don't know. I feel like we kind of cover it all. We covered the trades. We covered what's happening. I mean, you didn't really give me an answer on sort of, because I was hoping that you would say that you're expecting an oiler's panic trade.

I don't believe it. No, I don't. Like I said, I think if there would have been one, it would have been done already. So, I mean, it's kind of obvious to see.

Like Ian Cole to me, if they get them, that's not a panic deal. Right, no, it's not, unless they traded Ryan Newton Hopkins for him. But I don't think they're doing that. Right.

But so, I mean, when a team becomes that obvious sort of, you know, the season's not going the way they want and everyone's talking about, oh, are they going to make a trade? What are they going to do? Are you kind of like a shark sensing, smelling blood in the water where you kind of are going to prioritize circling back to that team more often than you would otherwise? I do. Like, I mean, like, generally I worry about the Canadian teams the most. Yes. You know, we're for our bosses. Our bosses care about that the most.

So, like, I'll get, like, it's funny. I'll get tweets from people saying, like, no, Flyers thoughts this week or. I do focus on the Canadian teams more than the other teams. There's no question. But yes, if you sense something, you're on that team. And sometimes they get sick of you. They're like, I don't want to hear from you right now. So it's kind of funny.

I've noticed that people really want you to get in on the Brock Besser for a Calder Trophy campaign. Jason Botcher is really pushing that. You know what? I read Botchford stuff. It was pretty good. And you know what? Sometimes the Vancouver fans, like they can be really something. but they've been really funny about this.

Like the tweets I've been getting, they've made me laugh. Let's watch Saturday. It's Vancouver, Toronto. I think we'll be talking a lot about Vancouver and the pregame. Yeah. And let's see what we come up with. I mean, I think it's a great. So obviously the Canucks desperately need someone like that to kind of captivate their fans

and give them some of the root for it. But there's also, it's a good story. I mean, you have the nickname The Flow. You know, my former Canucks Army teammates are making shirts and giving the proceeds a good cause and charity and all this stuff. So, I mean, it's a very good story, and he's definitely, you know, surprised me. I didn't think that his skating would be good enough to succeed at this level at this degree. You know, I'm going to tell you, Dimitia, one thing I've learned is that they said the same thing about John Tavares.

Yes. And I really believe that if you are committed, that's something you can improve. Right. Like, you know, John Tava, I remember John Tavarst was the number one pick, and people were saying, oh, from the blue line in, he's like a fullback barreling in for a touchdown. You got no chance, but you got to get it there. Right. Like, nobody's worrying about that anymore. Yeah.

And I really believe if you, especially with sports science and everything we do now, all the options these guys have at stake, if you want to improve your skating, you can do it. Yeah. And to me, Brock Besser looks like a guy who is committed, and I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't become an issue somewhere down the road. I mean, worst case, that shot's going to play in the offensive zone. So as long as you get him the puck, it'll work out. That's right. That's what Bull Horvats job is.

You get him the puck. Yeah. And Boerb is one of those guys who had questions about his skating heading into the league, and no one questions that anymore. If you want to make yourself better, you can. Yeah. All right, Elliot, let's get out of here. I'm not going to do the usual. Do you want to plug some stuff and where can people find you on Twitter?

You already have enough followers there. I would just say, please watch and read all Sportsnet platforms. Including my work. Including Dimitri's PDO cast and the blogs and articles he writes. That might be the new intro. We might have to cut that info at top. All right. Thanks for taking the time to come chat.

Hopefully we'll do us again soon. All right. The Hockey P.DEOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Filippovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey pdocast.