The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 209: The Wild Wild West

Episode Date: December 4, 2017

Tyler Dellow joins the show to bounce around the Western Conference, discussing topics such as: 3:20 The Flames top heavy construction 10:40 The Ducks injury woes 17:10 The Sharks offensive struggles 22:00 Where the Kings can keep this up 30:15 Whether the Golden Knights are for real 37:15 Rebuilds in Arizona and Vancouver 49:45 The Blues and Jets winning ways 58:45 The Stars change of pace under Hitchcock 1:01:00 The Blackhawks reliance on goaltending 1:04:00 Where the Wild go from here Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

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So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. The Hockey P.D.O.cast is brought to you by Get Down BP, which brings people together with a goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way. Listening to the mean since 2015. It's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filippovich.

Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast. My name is Dimitri Philpovich and sitting across from me sipping on his coffee. It's Tyler Dello. Tyler, what's going on, man? No much, Dimitri, this is weird. Is it? It's the first in-person show we ever done where we're sitting across from each other. What, usually you sit beside?

Oh, you mean you and me? Yes. Yeah, okay. I thought you meant usually when you recorded a PEDAOcast with a guest in person. I sit intimately on the couch side by the side. We actually go to a diner and sit on the same side of the pool. Yeah, romantic. Yes.

This is the first time we've done this in the same room and can read one another's reactions. So when we get to the cycling part of the podcast, I'm sure that your disgust will be visible to me. Well, see, I'm kind of in trouble here. I'm back into a corner because usually when I do podcasts with you and you start dropping references that I don't understand, my eyes just kind of glaze over and I start looking at my phone and just let you finish. Now you have to pretend you're interested. I have to be captivated or at least faint and fainted. So yeah, we're recording this on a Saturday afternoon in downtown Toronto and the hipster part of town, I was told. Yes.

So we're probably going to run this on Monday or Tuesday next week. So hopefully, you know, if we say something and then something crazy happens afterwards, that explains why. We're not just ignoring it. The internet is forgiving, Dimitri. I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah. So, well, I think they're going to be very happy about the fact that we're doing this show together across from each other because you generally have the worst audio. quality of any regular recurring PDOCAST guests.

So I've heard. I don't know what the issue with that is. I have a pretty good Mac and I talk. What do you, but the thing is, it captures your like keyboard tapping when you're like searching something up when we're talking. Well, because sometimes I have to search things up when we're talking. So I'm sure that I'm informed today. I've got nothing. Let's see how it goes. So I'm just going to be pulling stuff wildly. You're freewheeling. I'm surprised didn't come with a not a not pad or something. I know. I know. I don't care that much. Or you're just not a, you're not a journalist. I'm big coursey. It's true. So today we're going to do a Western conference

What do you call it a look around? A whip around. We're just going to go around Talk about some of the most interesting things I'm doing an Eastern Conference version of the show next week Just to show that there's no geographical bias here on the Hockey Ptogast But I like that you're doing the Western Conference first, Dimitri. One of the things that's always bug me out with hockey media

is whenever they do previews or whatever, it's always east then west. And I thought that's garbage. So I'm glad that you're part of me. You're joining with me and fighting that. Well, yeah, and I thought you'd be the natural guest to do this with because I do feel like you make a concerted effort. Talk about, like, I feel like you'd talk about Calgary more than anyone I follow.

Yeah, you know, I'm a night owl and I like West Coast hockey. I don't know what your fascination is with the Flames, though. They're like one of the least interesting teams in the league to me. Oh, they're so close to being so good. And they've got, like, you know, they've got like that 3M lines fantastic. And Geo Hamilton are fantastic. So you look at them and they're just like, it's just like if you did a few things a little differently, you could be really good. So I find teams like that really interesting, right?

Okay, should we just talk about the flames right now? Yes. They were like low on my list of things I do, but we're here already. Let's do it. Well, but no, it's interesting. Like, I think the big story there is that the Hamannick trade kind of doesn't really seem to have fixed the second pair. Yes. Okay, so there's a few ways to look at that.

Like Hamannick's numbers were pretty good for the majority of his career. And then last year, they seemed to take a bit of a nose-dye. and a lot of it seemed to be kind of just chalked up to injuries he was either missing time with or was sort of playing through at less than 100%. And we all just fit. And the interesting thing is also, you know, T.J. Brody's numbers took a dip last year as well when he got separated from Mark Giordano. Sure.

And I think that's, you know, the first thing there with Hamannock, he, you're right, like the Islanders were off were bad for a lot of last year. They kind of got it going by the end. But he and he was hurt. And his numbers had been good and then they were bad. And so like what Calgary traded for him, I was okay with that. Now I assumed that Calgary was pretty comfortable that they could fix whatever was wrong. Right.

And 25 games in, I sure hope that they're still comfortable. They could fix whatever's wrong because the same thing's going on. And then the Brody thing I think is interesting. Like there was always, I think, a bit of who's driving that pair. There was some people, Brody or Giordano. And I think now, you know, it's a no-brainer. and I honestly wonder if Calgary wouldn't be better off splitting up the Brody or the Giordano, depending on who they're playing, but say they're playing a team that's got like two lines.

Maybe you split that pair up and you, you know, you'll rely on Hamilton to carry one pair, Giordano to carry the other. Yeah, I mean, I think they should explore that because it doesn't, I haven't looked at their numbers recently, but I know for a large stretch early in the season, it was very underwhelming. I mean, obviously, you know, the top defense pair was doing everything that you can make an argument they're the best defense from the league. And then we were all excited heading into the season because there was this camp that believed like, oh, you know, the flames now with this addition are right up there with the ducks and the predators is the best defense court in the league.

And I mean, now they're paying Mike Stone so much on the third pair as well. Yeah, the Mike Stone thing was always harder for me to defend. But I did think that Hamilton, you're not Hamilton. I have too many ham guys. I thought Hamannick, if, you know, if he could get back to where he was. I liked that. Right. And it's just unfortunate that 25 games in.

He's not there and it doesn't necessarily look like he's going to get there? No, it doesn't. Well, the one encouraging thing I will say for the flames is that Mike Smith has been much better than I would have anticipated to be. And now obviously, you know, it's 20 games in or so that he's played. And it's quite possible that his next 20 games will look much different. But, you know, people were pretty critical, myself included mostly, that there were some very intriguing goalie options this summer available because of all the expansion draft stuff and trades. free agency and they just like they kind of quickly instead of exploring all that I feel like there's you know Mike Smith because of the connection with Brad true living and everything they just

jumped at that opportunity and I thought opportunity costs might not have worked out for them but so far so good yeah and I think the thing there I don't know um you're right like you can quibble with the trade but like honestly it you look at what Calgary went through the start of last year and they couldn't get a save yeah and it just puts you so far behind the eight ball and it's just it throws everything into chaos so you know you're right maybe it blows up but for now I think traveling looks like the bet he made is paying off right you know and you can debate whether or not it was a good bet but it's paying off so i suspect he's not too worried about um whether it was a great bet or not at this point in time yes um yeah other stuff with his team i mean it's nice to see

that johnny goodreels back to being one of the league's most dominant offensive talents yeah they just they got to find a way to get something out of the bottom six right have you been following his has had the slashes on his wrists gone down this season i'm you know what they probably have I do think that the refs have opened things up by calling those more. And I do think it was ridiculous too, right? Like it's like only in the NHL do you get, you know, the players who people pay to come to the rank to see only in the NHL is like, well, you have to be able to hit them with your stick. Like, you know, and I think that is like when you look at the leagues, and it's funny because

I had breakfast this morning with my parents and we were talking about this, but like you look at the leagues that really resonate with people. You know, they do two things that I think the NHL doesn't do. one is they you know they protect the stars like the stars are there to make place because they know people come to see the stars right nobody wants to see you know Johnny fourth liner

whack Johnny Goodroe right and then the second thing that I think they do the NHL isn't as good at is like they're able to sell storylines to people right and you know we're just talking about the NBA like the NBA not we but my parents and I the NBA you know sort of

who doesn't like who and who likes who and I feel like in the NBA more stuff kind of gets out about organizations when there's, you know, squabbles internally. Right. And it creates kind of like drama and story that sells the sport. And hockey's, you know, more like, you know, come watch our game and nobody's really going to say anything about what's going on and we'll whack the guys who are good. Yeah.

Well, and I mean, you sort of, yeah, I guess honestly is it, I feel like it's the media's fault more than anything because we always clamor for, you know, oh, we want to see some personality or you want to see players actually say stuff beyond the regular hockey cliches and then as soon as someone kind of steps out of bounds of it and says anything of note or anything interesting all of a sudden everyone's writing these stories about like oh you know these guys is he a distraction is he a bad character in the room and it's like well why would anyone ever say anything yeah I don't know and I I agree with

that I also think that you know you can expect too much from guys who are you know largely in their 20s yeah if they're you know certainly most of them aren't college guys and it doesn't mean they're dumb it just means that they're, you know, they haven't had, like, you benefit from going to college. Yeah. And they haven't had that benefit. And then you have a lot of guys who are Europeans. And, you know, I do think, particularly with the younger guys, you know, I see sometimes

people get upset when, you know, they say something that, you know, perhaps is dumb or, or don't take a stand on something. And I think that's, I think that is kind of expecting a bit much of people. Right. But it's sort of a, you know, it's a league where there's a lot of information that's out there that just never, you know, and it's not bad. but it's just like about what's going on that sort of stays stays in the shadows yeah i tell that to people sometimes because um a lot of the most interesting stuff is obviously stuff that you're told off the

record that you can report and like when you're out for a beer with someone and um you know it's it's whether it's a GM or an assistant GM or whoever in a front office or even a player um all these guys like i feel like there's so much like pent up frustration or whatever stuff that you can't you can't just go on twitter and just tweet it out for example so you're just so eager to tell someone stuff Yeah. Like you go out for a beer and they start like just unloading on you all this, all this dirt. And you're just like, what's going on right now? Yeah, but it's weird because in other sports, I feel like that stuff finds its way out more.

Yeah. Like, you know, like hockey's very much. You're saying I should just start breaking the ethics of journalism and just reporting everything I hear? Ethics are very important to me, Trace. It's true. Wait, wait, you should do that. Yes. Yes, you should do that.

Yeah. No. I had a good conversation with Elliot for even about not doing that. No, I thought Elliot. I heard that. I thought Elliot was great. Yeah. Full of good advice for young journalists.

He was. Okay, so I think 10 minutes there on the flames. Man, if we spend 10 minutes on every team, that's what, 150 minutes right there? That's a long podcast. Yeah, 15 teams in the Western comments. Okay, well, so we're going to skip past the Oilers because I've talked about them so much on this podcast and I've written. They're probably going to need to win some more games.

Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure that, you know, something will come down on the pike here eventually and it'll cause us to have to reopen this discussion. But for now, there's nothing new really to say. So we're going to prioritize other teams here instead. Let's talk about the ducks. The ducks.

All right, what do you got? Oh, my God. Well, it's kind of tough analyzing this team because I actually like their talent. And obviously they just haven't been able to use most of it this season. Yeah. So it's kind of unfair to be like, this team is not very good because they're doing a decent job right now of hanging in there and biding their time. And I guess it's going to be still a bit of a ways away until Getslaf and Kessler come back. So it'll be tough for them to continue this.

But if they can and they can just stay within striking distance, I think they could be one of those teams that's poised to make a really strong second half of them. Sure. They're in, I think they're in survival mode, right? Like the amount of guys who come up from San Diego this year and play games, like Michael Ambus is playing games for the ducks, you know? It's not a knock on Michael Amos, but he's, what, 25, 26? Right. He won an NHL game.

You know, when you go on like daily face-off, one lists everyone's numbers in their jerseys, they haven't even given them a number yet. Yeah, yeah. So he's, you know, as I honestly, I'm trying to think of like cases I've seen like that. You know, and always, my mind always goes to the Oilers, for examples like this, but like the 06-07 Oilers after they traded Ryan Smith and they shut down half the team. Yep. That's what this reminds me of, except that the Oilers went like 1119 and 2 to finish the season. Right.

And Anaheim's hanging around, which is, you know, now part of that, I think is a testament to, have you ever heard of Hampas Lindholm? He's pretty good. It's pretty good. Yeah. He's kind of keeping... I mean, even he missed the start of the year. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. But since he's been back, like, I did something with defense pairs.

It was funny. Like, the duck's, like, first pair, which is Lindholm, was, like, seventh in possession. Right. And then the second and third pairs are both 30th, and it's just, like, a train running over them. And so, you know, I think what you've got there is really a testament to, you know,

Lindholm's keeping them up. I think, too, like Cogliano and Silverberg, who's, I think, now hurt, you know, that's a better line than people realize. Like, they do have some guys who kind of fly beneath the radar a little bit. and they've been healthy but but they've had so many big name injuries i don't think like i say it's reminds me of emminton at the end of the year and oh six oh seven well it's funny because so they have that top pairing with linholm manson and they're remarkable and you know i talked about this when i

did the uh defense rankings with with andrew berkshire but it's like whenever they're on ice it just seems like the other team just it's like skating in mud they just can't do anything against them and then carlis gone for the approach i guess justifiably splitting up fowler and montour and kind of putting them with like traditional sort of i guess not stay-at-home defensemen but like they're just older slower guys and bx n boshaman and i wonder if they'd be better off just putting phallor and want to on one pair and just playing those two pairings like 30 minutes each and just foregoing the charade of francois bocherman in 2017 because i just i don't know how much there's left there in tank yeah um and it's funny you mention that because i've actually got some stories that will be coming up on the athletic

oh there we go a siren on the hockey ptio cast i know i know demetri's uh ability to find parts of the world where sirens go up. Trouble just follows me. Yeah. Trouble will find you. Here we go. Oh,

there you go. It's past us. All right. We're good. So back to the point I was making there about defense pairs. Or I'm sort of writing

about line matching and whatnot. The interesting thing about how Carlisle uses forwards is he really doesn't use his fourth line very much. And so you would think

he would be amenable to kind of doing that with his defense too, right? Like just play the hell out of your top two pairs and then just spot in your third.

pair but um you know yeah i don't know it's it's a tough sledding for them until they get some guys back and if they can keep within a point or two of the playoffs i think carlis again the ducks have done a great job i mean i'd quibble with the fact that carlisle doesn't use his fourth line considering derrick grant was his first line center and so i guess he's he's really a fourth liner yes yes when you're playing fourth liners in a first line spot i guess you don't need to play your fourth line yeah well isn't that incredible though how they've just like gone through yeah like gone through guys and they just keep pulling up guys from San Diego and sort of just shooting them through the lineup.

Some of these games, like there was the game against the Golden Knights a few weeks ago, a week ago an hour or so, where they were, I've never seen that type of domination. It was in Anaheim, and it was like, they were just holding on for a year for a while, and they were up to nothing and 2-1 for a while, and then eventually it just deteriorated and they lost.

Here come to Golden Knights. Here come to Golden Knights. Is there anything else on the ducks here that we need to say? I mean, it's kind of... No, I feel like with them, it's kind of like, okay, good job hanging on. and we'll figure out what you are once you get some bodies back. Right.

Yeah. Well, okay, so with them, here's an interesting thing. And because Elliot Freeman brought this up when we were talking about the ducks and the tray they made with Vatin. And they're one of those fascinating teams for the sort of development versus drafting discussion and sort of kind of like chicken or egg or how it works and what's more responsible. do you think they're one of those teams that is just good at drafting? Or do you think there's some structural thing in their organization that allows them to develop their players better? Incredible development operation in San Diego.

I think that's, I think that's, no, I, San Diego goals notorious for churning out talent. Yeah, no, it's, you know, the joke there obviously is that my friend is their coach in San Diego. but no I look you know I do think they develop well um what impresses me and I don't know if it's drafting or development you know I know Dallas and his staff do you know great work and they do some cool stuff so you know I'm sure that they you know do a lot to help bring those guys through but like the ducks like really do have an ability like you look at hampus lindholm right like would they pick him like 10th or 12th or something no he was a bit higher he's top 10 but I mean it was one of those things where I remember when he was drafted he wasn't necessarily one of the guys

I was like, and I remember looking at his numbers and being like, Fowler slid, he's been a good pro, Montour, second round. And then the guys like Theodore, like who's off to Vegas now, like Vattenin who they found in the fourth round. I've never been a huge Vatnin guy, but it is impressive to me how they were able to find guys who become top four defensemen. Yep. And I think, you know, probably some of that goes to their development

and some of that goes to, you know, how well they draft. Let's stick with the, with the California teams here. The sharks are a fascinating team to me because by all the shot metrics, they look very good, but they haven't been able to really convert any of that into actual sustainable offense.

I believe they're a bottom five team in terms of goals per hour at 5-1-5. And, you know, I was looking at this week because I was writing about how the Oilers are getting so many shots from their defensemen and the sharks are right up there as well, and it's mostly just Brent Burns bombing from the point. And it worked the past two years, basically converting like a league average forward.

All Brent Burns' forward jokes aside, he probably wasn't going to keep doing that if he's shooting as far away as he is. And, you know, this year he has the one goal so far. And, you know, there's probably a middle ground between what he was doing before and what he's doing this year. But it's probably not the most kind of sustainable strategy to just kind of run your entire offense through defensemen shooting from the point. Yeah, and that's, you know, I wrote something about this at the Athletic during the summer for the Athletic San Jose talking about how, you know, San Jose's offense was so point shot heavy. Yeah. And I think that is a, you know, I think that's a Pete DeBore thing. Now, in fairness to DeBore, he, you know, obviously worked really well in 2015-16.

Yeah. Like they went to a Stanley Cup final. And, you know, I think they were clearly the second best team, but I don't really know that that has anything to do with coaching. I think it's just, you know, when the other guy's got peak Gino, peak, peak, you know, God bless, good luck. Peak Philly Castle. Peak, wow, are you kidding, man? Phil Kessel's peak, started 10 years ago and we'll last for another 10.

He's always peak Phil Kessel. Has he even hit his peak yet? Oh, I know. He just keeps getting better. So, but you're right, like, when you see the offenses that are like that, that sort of shoot a ton from the point, yeah, if you're doing something different that doesn't seem good, and it doesn't succeed, you're going to attract some criticism, I think, is the way to put it.

And so, you know, like, I've, and I know, and it's interesting, I should, I should go back through that and see, like, what did San Jose do that resulted in a bunch of goals in 2015-16 that they aren't getting now? And I wonder if I could figure that out because, you know, it's, like, you know, if Pete DeBore was here, I'm sure he'd say to us, it worked in 15, 16, and we scored goals, and he'd have a point. So, you know, I don't know how you recognize. reconcile those, although I agree with you that when you look at it, you go, this doesn't look like it should work. Right.

You know, and that's really the challenge, I think. Well, I guess so the question here is, you know, like, what do we make of the sharks as a team, especially looking at the rest of their Pacific Division peers and the Western Conference as a whole? Like, how much credit should we give them for, you know, the shots they are generating? And is there like, do you think there's a move out there for them to make? like within reason that could switch some of that for them? I don't know. I think it's,

I think it's kind of content with this roster that they have. And some of it is just because, you know, they don't have much much flexibility, especially financially at this point. Well, I don't know. They have some room, don't they? Because they got rid of Marlowe left over the summer. So, you know, I think they have some money to spend.

Well, Burns' contract just kicked in. Right, right, right, right. So I guess I'm thinking more they have short-term money they can spend. Right. I don't know. Like, to me, like, the issue that you're raising is essentially a tactical. one, right? And, you know, I guess you could look at it from, are there questions who, are there questions? Are there players who could help the coach execute that strategy more efficiently?

And I don't know, maybe there are, maybe you need guys who are better at getting rebounds or better at setting screens or something. You know, but I don't know that, I don't know that getting someone who scores in one kind of system and then bringing them out to San Jose to play in the point shot festival. I don't know that that's going to do anything. Right. Now, I don't think they're, I don't think they're a bad team. Like, I think they're fine. Like, they're, I don't think they're a world beater. Um, but I think, you know, I suspect they'll be a playoff team. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. Um, well, and like, keep in mind, they were leading the division last year. You know, again, in fairness to the sharks, I believe

they were leading that division last year in March and then, and then, and then, and then, injury sort of kicked in. Right. Yeah. Because member Kutur, wasn't his face basically broken or something? Yeah, yeah, broken face isn't good. That's a tough one. And, yeah, and then Thornton, you know, trashed his knee before the playoffs. Yeah. And when they ran into the Oilers, like they were kind of a smashed up team. So,

you know, I don't know. Like I suspect that come April, when you're doing your playoff preview show, Western Conference first, San Jose is going to be one of the eight teams you're talking about. Yes,

you and I will definitely have that discussion at that point in time. Yeah, so this is a good segue to talking about the Kings, but it also applies to this conversation with the sharks. And it's sort of what we were talking about with L.A. this summer,

you and I, where it was like this kind of trying to find this balance between, between if you change your tactics in the offensive zone or the way you want to play and you maybe you're generating fewer shots, but you're converting at a higher rate because you're looking for better opportunities.

Like where is that kind of middle ground and sweet spot where you're not giving away too much and you're creating more. And you know, LA, for example, this year, I'm looking right now, they're like middle of the pack in shooting percentage of 515, which doesn't seem like anything great,

but for them that is a massive. That is a home run for them. You know, and it's been, I know you wrote about this about how, you know, they're sort of, they've unleashed your defensemen a little bit to be more active and creative and jump in on the play. I don't know. I just wonder if a team like San Jose, if they made a change like that on the fly and maybe that's a tough thing to do in season. Yeah, I think it's probably tough to do in season. If you look at what L.A. did, it was telegraphed. Like even as soon as they fired Lombardi and Sutter, like Blake and Stevens,

We're talking about, I'm speaking with Rob, like, the GM and John Stevens, the coach. I know you know David Tray. And Pierre Terzion, the offensive coordinator. Yeah, but they were talking, like, from the moment they took over about having looked at data about where their shots are coming from and how they're being created. And so I had a strong sense then that they had put a lot of time into kind of a plan to, you know, and they'd sort of done some thinking about the way that they play and whether or not that, you know, hurt their chances of creating offense.

And if it's interesting, like, it's interesting, if you look back over Daryl Sutter's career, like his teams have never scored goals. Right. Like, you remember the 05-06 flames. I remember, like, that was the year, so it was the year after the lockout, and they'd been to the cup final in 0304,

and everyone loved them. And man, they could not score a goal. Yep. And it was, I think, the same 06-07. And then Calgary, Sutter moved on and either Playfair stepped up or Keening came in. I can't remember which happened first.

Yeah. But all of a sudden, they get score goals. Right. So, you know, I do think there's a big systemic component, but, you know, I think that it's the sort of thing that you don't want to start monkeying with without a few months thinking about. And I got the sense that L.A. did put that time in all this summer. I just, I love the discussion because, you know, as a fan of the game and someone who thinks,

spends probably way too much time thinking about this stuff, I love the idea that a coach and the system he employs could make such a tangible difference like this. And that's what I think makes this story so captivating because it obviously, it is a player's league and it's kind of tough to fake it and ultimately the team with the best players will probably do better sure um but the fact that you can you know sort of put players in a position to succeed or make them look better than they might be just based on pure raw talent is a fun story for me and it's kind of also provides hope that there's ways to kind of improve your performance without just getting the best players sure absolutely and and i think it's absolutely like it's sort of a you know

like hold on by being smart you can by being smart about what you do on the ice, you can pump out better results, even with, you know, lesser players. And, you know, there's no, like I agree with you. I think at the end of the day, probably talent plays a pretty big, big role in it. Yes. But, you know, in a league like the NHL has become, which is very much one of parity, having a coach who can get you those extra couple points, that might be the difference between a playoff run or not. Or finding a way to get those extra couple points, you know? Right. So the question with the Kings, though, do you know, do you know, Do they pass the smell test to you?

I think they do. They don't for you? I think they need someone to bump Alec Martinez down the lineup. But, I mean, you look at this roster and it just, like, I know it just goes against what I just said, because you'd like to think that what they're doing and the plans they made this summer schematically are doing this, but like, how is Trevor Lewis?

Is this a Balkans thing? Is this because your background, Serbian and Copantars are Slovenian? No, I love Anze Copatar. Really? Even though he's a Slovene? Yeah, yeah. I was one of the initial adopters of, you know, Anzee Copatar is the player. I'm just trying to, I just trying to figure.

Like the Kings have, you know, Dowdy anchoring their first pair. And they got Copatar as their first light center. But then everything else. I mean, how is, like, where is this coming from for Dustin Brown? Yeah. I want a story about it. And it better not be a hindsight, you know, oh, he's in the best shape of his life. He started a vegan diet this summer.

Like, what's going on there? because he looked like a guy who was, because he out of the league in two years. Isn't a big part of it power play, and I haven't looked closely at him because it's so weird. And I'm sure you have it too because you're with sports net. Obviously, you guys care more about what goes on in Canada than what goes on. I just found out today there's a team in L.A.

No, two. Well, in the Anaheim is basically right there. No, but it's the same for me. It's like L.A., L.A. I don't think we have a, like, it's not an athletic market. I'm like, you know. But no, I don't know. I agree.

The Dustin Brown thing's weird. I haven't looked closely at it, But getting those power play minutes can obviously change things for a player. Was Trevor Lewis going to score 30 goals this year? Probably not. Yeah, but stuff like that. Is Jeff Carter going to come back at some point? And that's what's remarkable about the fact that they've managed to keep chugging along without Jeff Carter.

Sure, sure. But that's what I look at. Like, you know, if you want to say they're playing a little over their head because they don't have Carter to anchor that second line, you know, fine. I'm not going to scream at you. But, you know, the fact of the matter is they're going to be adding a pretty significant piece as the season goes along. Right. And, you know, they seem to have figured out. how to score goals now.

So, you know, I don't, I don't, like, for me, when I look at the Western Conference right now, the three, or the Western Conference, when I look at the Pacific Division, the three teams that I think are going to be there at the end of the day for sure are Calgary, L.A. and San Jose. Yeah. And then everybody else has, you know, their own issues, like Evanton's got whatever, whatever's happening there. Right. You know, Vancouver and Vegas, I just don't think are that good.

And, you know, I think Arizona got off to a bit of a bumpy start. And then Anaheim's obviously got, you know, the injury award. Right. So, but, you know, like, L.A. for me is one of the three teams that I think that come April you're going to be talking about. And I'm a big believer, you know, if you're going to dish out criticism of stuff and be critical of players and their performance, you need to kind of likewise give credit where it's to. Yeah, yeah, no. Jonathan Quick has been awesome this year, which is. Which is, okay, I haven't looked.

What's he at say for, percentage wise? 9. Uh, 9.30. Ooh. See, it's interesting. to me, you know, I don't like saying this because I think people are way too quick to say, oh, it's a system, it's a system. Right. But I do wonder if there's something to, like, a system like the old system that the kings were playing. Yeah. If it just meant that, you know, like somehow the kings gave up worse chances. And I don't know, you know, but it was interesting how there was such a disconnect between eyes because, like, people who, you know, no goleys love them. and between numbers and numbers say you didn't stop enough pucks yeah but i in this specific case i would

trust the numbers more just purely because like it's easy to see why people would fall in love with jonathan quick sure yeah like when a guy makes a sexy saves you're like oh he's look at that yeah yeah no fair enough it's it's you know it's i i hate to invoke this name but it's like pavlick right like pavlick was always yeah so i don't know like i you know what can i say it's 25 games i'm quick who knows we'll see we'll see what he is but obviously he actually his only average more than a league average goalie for for ones that obviously increases their ceiling question that would be i think a positive thing for the other kings that's that's a that's a bold statement right there yes um yeah it'd be be nice if you know if we had some sort of tracking

data that we could test to see if he's actually changed the way he's playing himself like i don't know is he is he moving around less is he more i don't know i've watched a few king games and he's all over the place he's swimming he loves he loves getting down eh like he's you know get down get down yeah he's he's an interesting he's a fun goalie to watch yes like it's not just don't all sort of, you know, always squared and centered. Like, he's entertaining. He's fun to watch. Okay, we got three more teams here in the Pacific Division

before we move on to obviously the much more interesting division here. Central. The Golden Knights. Yeah. What do we have to say about them? I'm not a wild about the Twitter account. It's trying way too hard. Yeah.

I also think, like, it's kind of like it's not in on the joke, right? Because they're like, you get the sense that Twitter account's like, yes, we're really good. And I don't know. It's weird. It's funny because I say I like storylines and I like people being entertaining, but I just, there's something I find a little off about that, you know. And I think the roof's going to come in on Vegas. And I, you know, there's people there who I like. There's players there who I like.

Right. But I just, you know, I think ultimately what they got was they got a really. reasonably good, they got reasonably good depth for their team. Yep. Like, and that makes sense, right? When you're getting to pick, you know, the best, you know, you get to look at every roster and take, you know, the best 7, 8,9 forward you find or the best, you know, fourth defensemen.

Yep. And it's like, when you look at the numbers, but the problem is that they've got like a crater at the top of their team. Right. And it's, you know, it's because they've got a lot of good complimentary players, but they don't have like a piece or, you know, the pieces you need to really, really pull them along. So, I don't know.

Hey, you know what? Like the start they've had is great. and they've obviously connected with the community, which is great. And, you know, they did the Vegas shooting thing. They handled that very well. So you can't say enough about how well that organization seems to be run. But I don't believe it's real. Yeah, I don't either.

They have some, you know, they do have some good, interesting players. Obviously, they don't have, like, the top end stars, and that'll be tougher them to overcome. Okay, here we go. I do have something about this. I think it's kind of garbage is too strong, but I think it's sort of wrong how people sort of make jokes about George McPhee and the defenseman. Yeah. Like, you know, I don't know.

I think that they did all that pretty well. And, you know, sometimes you come up with a good plan and it just doesn't pan out. I thought it was a good plan. I thought it was poor execution. Why is that? Because I think they just misjudged, you know, where the league is at and what those players are worth. Yeah. Like, I'm all for the idea of loading up on defensemen because teams value them quite a bit and you

could probably recoup some nice value. The problem is, like, when it's guys like Alexei Emelin and Lucas Spisa and, you know, Jason Garrison, like, no one wants those guys. Well, okay, in fairness to them, Garrison was, Garrison, that was a deal. Right. That was not. Okay, but they just went out of their way to take Lucas Beza for nothing. They could have taken a guy like Charles Udahn, who was awesome. But they had to take something.

Yeah, but they could have taken like a Brendan Gons or something. I'd rather have a fourth line guy. Yeah, I guess. I guess. The Charles Udahn one is just inexplicable and indefensible, in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Because they probably thought Alexei Emelin's going to get us like a first round pick or something. No, you know what?

Like I don't think they thought they get a first round pick for Emmeline. I just, you know, I think that they, like to me, you know, I've heard a lot more criticism of McPhee trying to corner the defenseman market than I've heard praise for how they kind of dealt with everything leading up to the expansion draft. And by that I'm thinking particularly of like how they sort of said to teams, okay, if you're going to do a deal with us, you can't also be doing deals to her. hurt us. Yeah. Like, like, I thought they handled that very well. And, you know, to me, I really,

I think you have to look at the big picture with these things. And, you know, the defense thing probably hasn't worked as well as they wanted. But, you know, it's been okay. And I also think, like, come to trade deadline this year, like, you know who's going to be the man run the show, George McPhee? Because he's got a lot of pending free agents. Wait, but the question is, are they going to be in the buyer or the seller market? I think, I think they're going to be sellers. Like, Do you think that they're going to be hanging on in a playoff spot by then? Probably not, but I would have also expected them to have regressed by now. Yeah, but I don't know.

They're starting to, like, what, they've lost a couple in a row now. Well, they hit three home runs the way I see. I mean, maybe even more, but the three ones that stand out are everything that happened with Florida. I mean, that was just insane that they got two legit top six guys. I should come back for the Florida. You should. We can do that at the end. Yes.

the um getting uh bill carlson yeah from columbus and getting columbus to pay them to take him basically so well to stay away from but again again they also took uh they also took david clarkson it's true yeah but i i'd be remiss doing the show if i didn't mention bill carlson because he has the best uh best nickname in the league right now and it's not even wild bill carlson it's well when you translate that from swedish to english yeah the result is savage billy k for some reason that's pretty And Savage Billy Kay is something. Savage Billy Kay. And then what was the third one?

There was, oh, Minnesota. Minnesota wound up working out really well for them because they got Alex Tuck and Eric Halla, which is nice. Yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, you know. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I just, I think Vegas did really well. And you know what?

Like, I've made jokes with the waiver defensemen too. Like, I think when they said, we're announcing our mascot, I was like, is it an 11th defenseman who needs waivers? So, you know, it's easy to make jokes, but I don't know. I think they've done really well. and they're really well set up. I just don't think it's going to be this year. But credit to them, I think, you know,

they're obviously more competitive than we would have thought so far at least, but they're also more fun to watch than I would have thought. They play a fun style. They're very aggressive, very fast, they roll the lines like what's not to like. Yeah, no, I agree with all that. And I like the jerseys.

Yeah. Oh, the white gloves. Love it. Fire. Now, they're a nice addition to the NHL. Yes. And I suspect that, you know, like, they need to find a way.

to get sort of a star to put at the top of their lineup. But I think they'll be reasonably good reasonably soon if they pull that off. My favorite stat is that they're nine and two at home to see. I know. You know what? And that was like, that was like the one thing that their Twitter account tweeted where it was like, oh yeah, you know, we'll make sure teams can have the extra off day in Vegas. And I was like, I don't know.

And the funny thing is I've never been to Vegas. I've been to a bunch of NHL cities. Like you can go out and party in any NHL city. What makes Vegas so special? You can, but Vegas just has this weird. hold over people. I don't know how to explain it. I've heard some stories that they're not going to keep winning nine out of every 11 home games,

but I think they're going to be above league average at home, even if they're away record. Really? So you buy into the Vegas is better at home because guys go insane. I think people are stupid and sometimes they just can't help themselves. Man, I don't get it. I would definitely be like flying in the day of and flying out the night. Well, you can't, well, really, that's, I see I don't buy that man. And like, I really do think most of these guys are pros.

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, they show up to work. I don't know what kind of state that's in, but they do show up. I don't know. I've seen them on the ice. Yes, yes, yes. Well, we'll see.

We'll see if they keep rolling along. Yeah, I mean, obviously, listen, they're going to keep winning at this rate. But it's a good story so far. Arizona. Yes. Arizona and Vancouver. Let's bang us out in five minutes. How's Arizona doing?

Are they playoffs? Well, the thing is, they're like, they've been around a 500 team over the past couple weeks and that's probably what we should expect from them. I mean, I do feel bad. That start of the year was just ridiculous. They couldn't buy a save and then everyone's obviously using that as a chance to jump on the whole analytics are stupid and play some hockey. It's funny. I was talking to someone about this recently and, you know, I don't know, John Jake.

I don't know anything about him, you know, but I do think he's in a tough spot because I think there's a lot of people in hockey who probably don't want to see him. you know and but I do think he's in a tough spot because I think there's a lot of people in hockey you probably don't want to see him succeed yeah because it's good for them if the hockey jobs are held by the hockey guys and you know like I I'm sure that there are a lot of people reveling in their problems and it's funny like I actually looked a little more closely at them just I'm pulling some numbers or some stuff I'm doing and man like a lot of his stuff seems like it worked okay like um demurice has been fun you know, I don't know,

Zalmersson got hurt. Was there anyone that didn't like their summer moves? Like, well, I don't know. But like, like their first line's been okay. Like it's,

you know, like the problem, I think, you know, if Dylan Strom was, you know, producing like, like Mitch Marner,

that might be helpful for them. Yeah. And boy, like he, did you watch the Evanston Arizona game this week? Have you seen Dylan Strome back in the NHHL? I haven't. No.

Because he was tearing up the age. Does he look faster? I didn't even notice him. Yeah. And that's, you know, that's the thing where if you're saying where did this go wrong for them beyond the obvious goal tending i'm sure that they you know and maybe it was more wish than hope but they probably

wanted dylan strome to be able to you know fit into their top six at this point i did i did have a a hockey person reach out to me uh yesterday after listening to the elliot friedman podcast yeah and say uh wow that was that was a savage sub tweet at the strome brothers by freedman when he was talking about how you know if you really want to improve your skating there's a there's many ways to do so yeah well but that that's that's yeah I don't know I like it's it's crazy because Dylan went down to the American League and he tore it apart yeah he's clearly talented but yeah but it's still too early to say he's one of those like four A guys it's never yeah no it's too early to say but you sort of you wonder a little bit what's up there right and so I don't know like like it's a shame

Because I, you know, as someone who's a proponent of, you know, engaging your brain when you think about hockey, you know, I'd like to see Arizona do well. And I think that they are much better than their start. Right. But the problem is it's going to be buried by their start. Yeah. And, you know, they just couldn't get a save for 12 games or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that.

Vancouver, I feel like it's good that I have you on since you're the number one Travis Green superfan. I think he's a good coach. Do you think he's a good coach or is it because you're infatuated by his good looks? Wow. That was one of the weirdest tweets I've seen all year. So what Dimitri's talking about, I was tweeting that I think Travis Green is a pretty good coach. And I sometimes say words in my head that I forgot to type. And unfortunately there, the word that I forgot to type was good.

So I declared Travis Green to be a pretty coach. Yes. And it's not bad looking. He's a handsome fellow. Yeah, no, fair enough. You know, I was right. Yeah. But it's, they're really interesting team to me.

They've been off to a good start and they're kind of hanging around. And it's funny, I compared their rebuild to the 0709 Oilers yesterday. And I don't think that's fair to Vancouver because I think Bessor and Horvatt are probably better than anybody that addition to the Oilers had drafted. But you just wonder, you know, you wonder, for me, you wonder two things. You wonder, you know, can Jim Benning get the defense without? because I don't really see it in the prospects. Like maybe a levy pans out, but I think realistically he's going to have to make some signings that work.

And you look at their signings and you're like, it hasn't, it's not the defense group I would have built, right? Right. And then I think the other thing, you know, Horvath, I don't think he tops out as a one center on a Stanley Cup contender. No. So, you know, it's do they have enough talent to get over the hump? without sucking for a while longer or winning a lottery.

Yeah, that is the question. And it's also one of those things where, I mean, it's tough because there's this argument that, you know, Vancouver is a type of hockey market that wouldn't support or wouldn't be able to withstand a long-term rebuild. But it's also, I think it's kind of misguided because I think what people just wanted, like, a direction or a cohesive plan or, you know,

like it looked like they were going to rebuild. And then they had that one year where they were kind of better than expected and they made the playoffs and they lost it of flames and then it was like oh well maybe the conucks are actually the playoff team it's like no no that's not how this works and that that kind of set them back a bit and you know this summer they made a bunch of moves which are in a vacuum all reasonable but for the team and the direction they were headed in it was just kind of like weird that they were just the busiest team adding all these guys to like three-year contracts it's like that yeah well I don't know what you think about delzato but i'm not a fan and uh he was pretty good in philly for a while

but it's a lot of money and a lot of term for. I don't know. In Philly, I think he put up good numbers and he played with Goudis and then he was bad otherwise. Or his numbers were bad otherwise. So you tell me, is that him or is that Radco? So I don't know. I just, I feel like Vancouver,

I feel like they've got enough talent that if they were kind of run cleverly, they could get back to being a consistent playoff team. And if they could go out and add a star somehow, they could be a they could you know get themselves to a point where they're a really good team i just you know i don't know you look at some of the decisions they've made over the past few years on the pro side yeah and it's hard for me to have a lot of confidence that they'll nail those moves yeah and it's also i mean i love a nonchalant that you said go out and get a star i mean it's

kind of tough oh sure sure but i think you have to i don't know i didn't get to find ways to do it yeah and i wonder if we aren't going to see more teams like you look at okay let's go back Arizona, right? Like, they, you know, they went for this year and they missed. Yeah. But, like, I don't think Eklin Larson, I have a hard time imagining him resigning there. Okay. And the athletics, Craig Custens, I believe, cited a league exec saying he doesn't think,

he doesn't think OEL is there by 2019, right? Because his deal's up that year. Yep. and and so, you know, like if Arizona's got this year blown, you know, and maybe they can wait until next summer, but like, are they not better off sort of, and if he's not going to stay, are they not better off, you know, moving him and turning him into something else? Well, especially with what they could, I'd expect them to get if he was available.

Oh, sure, sure. They get a big package, you know. But, okay, so let's, here's a question for you, Dimitri. say Vancouver ends up with like the fifth overall pick yeah will you would if you're Vancouver would you trade that for a signed ohel extended yes yeah but see like I wonder if we aren't going to see more this come because like like teams sort of love to hold onto their guys right but to me it's like okay but if this is going nowhere you know and you know like the answer is it's because GMs want to keep their job and owners want to sell tickets but

But if this is going nowhere, like, why are you holding it? Like, why are you not trying to auction a guy off? Right. And get the guy who's going to be part of, you know, the next team that is going somewhere. And, you know, now in fairness to the Arizona, they could come back next year and make a few tweaks and I think they could be a playoff team. Yeah. Or they could get close.

But then they've got OEL being a free agent. And I don't know if they can withstand losing him. Well, the thing with picks and prospects is, you know, they provide hope and optimism. And it's great unknown. And you can see why people get excited. excited about it and obviously there is if you had a home run on a guy like that it's a lot to be said about how cost control they are for a long time but i'd generally side with taking the proven commodity over the unknown to me it depends where you are right but like this goes back to how do you rebuild and i talked to this in the context of detroit this summer because

detroit like does not want to rebuild yeah and it's like okay well then try and build a team for 60 million dollars that is good yeah and then you've got that money that you can find a superstar to throw on top of it Or, you know, if you're Detroit, you know, like, like, why wasn't Detroit sliding picks onto the table to go try and pull out a star from somewhere? Like, you know, I guess what? It's like, you watch Breaking Bad, right? Yep. You know, and you know when Mike is like, tells the story and he's like no half measures? It's like, like, so many teams in the NHL, it's half measures.

Yeah. It's like, wow, we're competing, you know? We got some guys and we're spending to the cap, but we're not making the playoffs. And, you know, it's just like, they aren't in or out. It's just half measures. And you look at baseball, you know, who's the World Series champions right now, the Astros. Yeah. You know, what they did wasn't half measures.

Right. They had a plan and they committed. Yeah. They weren't like, well, we'll dangle our toes. You look at the Cubs, one last year. They had a plan. They committed. Yeah.

And too many hockey teams are just like, eh, you know, we'll see. Yeah. And it's tough because it's not just one thing, right? Like, you obviously need the support of ownership. Oh, sure, sure. You need, like, you need everyone to buy in, and you need to realize that there's going to, be pain a rough stretch and it's going to be hopefully worth it at a doubt well and you know what and in fairness

to the aquilini's in vancouver if the canucks say all right we're tearing it down there's going to be pain um how many how many are like you know how many are going to go to the games not many not many people are going right now well i don't know is it not many i don't think so okay well fair enough i guess they sort of they tried and yeah and now they're in the same place they would have been but Right. But I do think it's easier to say tear it down in a market where, you know, it's easier to say tear it down in a market where you know you're going to have that support. Right. Now, the other thing is, you look at, the other thing is like, you know, and Ken Hall makes this point. And, you know, in all fairness to him, it's not entirely crazy.

Well, that's maybe phrased poorly, but. As opposed to all the other stuff. No, no, no, no, no. But no, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't mean it the way. You're glad you're in your eyes. No, this is why I don't like being in the same room as you. No, but he's made the point that, you know, you look at some of these teams that do rebuilds and when do they get out of it?

Right. And like Buffalo's, you know, still smoking hole in the ground. And Arizona's, you know, now Arizona is to a certain extent, but they've obviously, they're a special case. They've got other issues. But like somebody tweeted out the other day and, like, showed the bottom three in the standings. And it's like Arizona, Buffalo and Evanton.

And then they, like, tweeted that picture from the 2015 draft with Stroh Michael and McDavid. And it's just like, holy cow. Like, Evanton's a special case, obviously, they're not like those teams. But, yeah, I don't know. I think it's a tough, it's a tough decision. But I think, you know, the way that teams go half measures, like, you know, you're not getting anywhere. You're just, you know, you're just getting closer to death.

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All you have to do to claim that reward is download the Seekek app, enter the promo code PDO, and they'll give you $20 off your first Seekkekekech. Now, let's get back to the show. All right, we're back. Wow. This is your first time seeing the, the magic of, uh, advertisement? I'm going to let you guys in on a secret.

You know, Dimitri just stopped talking for a second. There was no ad. So that ad you're hearing here, like that's, I'm sure you guys just heard an ad. By the way, um, the athletic.com slash free trial. Hey, hey, hey, we're going to cut that out of the show. Guerrilla advertising, buddy. Cut that out of the show. Um, I can't, I, I'm allowed to pimping.

Or no, what do you say? If you, if you have something you want to, what's your word? pitch. Uh, no. No, if, if, uh, if, if, uh, if, if, uh, if, if, uh, if, if, uh, No, at the end of the show, you always say, hey, man, where can people fund you? Plug, plug, plug, not, not Pimp. Pina's not classy.

But, yeah, no, there's no ad. Dmitri just, it's all digital mastery. No. It's all a scam. Yes. Except for the nice products we advertise. Of course, the razors, they're great. Yeah, I mean, you can tell right now. Your beard, yeah, let, Dimitri is clean shaven.

It's soft as a baby's bottle. Yes, yes. Okay, the central division. We're already like the 50-minute mark here, so we're going to have to hammer through this. All right. start with the blues. Yeah. Who are an interesting team to me because I didn't really give them much attention

heading into the season in the summer. And obviously, you know, they've been very successful so far. In particular, that top six of theirs is... I was team blues, Dimitri. If you go back and look at my... Incredible. If you go back and look at my 16 questions for the Western... 15 questions for the Western Conference at the start of the year,

and you can do that at the athletic.com slash free trial. You'll see that you'll see like I was sold on their top six. I was like, you know, the bottom six I'm not so sure about, but they've got so much talent in that group that I figured they could drag them along. And, you know, with the way the Western conferences unfolded so far this year, like it's crazy. If you look at the history of the St. Louis Blues, so many times they had sort of their best teams when there were powerhouse as somewhere else.

Yeah. So even when they came in the league, the first three years they make the finals because of the way the league structured the conferences. And of course, they're massive underdogs and get, you know, know, stomped. And then, you know, late 90s, early oddies, they have, you know, McKinness, Pronger, you know, they got a real good group. And they keep running into Detroit, Dallas, Colorado. And then more recently, it's like, you know, they've had a really good team, say, post-2010, 2012 or whatever it is. And it's like, hey, Chicago, L.A. And so there's always been kind of a super

team standing in the way of the Blues. And to stand the Cup final. And to me, when I look at the Western Conference, this year isn't the case. Yeah, I don't see that. Yeah. So I really hope like, you know, I think, you know, for St. Louis and Doug Armstrong, it would really make sense if they get further in the season, they still think they got a shot. At that point, you know, maybe try and make your team a little bit deeper up front. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I would. I mean, I feel like, you know, part of it might be just because of the financial landscape there and sort of the teams they've had and maybe they've had kind of roadblocks in their way. but I feel like the Blues haven't really had too many of those trade deadline seasons

where they just kind of push all their chips in and go for it. I mean, I feel like the most prominent move they made was that misguided one where they like gave a bunch of assets for Steve Ott and Ryan Miller and that didn't all. And then they lost it a Blackhawks in the first round. But to me, like the funny thing about what they need this year is they don't need, you know, all they need is depth of players who can help, you know, just control the game when they're on the ice.

Like it's not like you're like out there looking for who. whoever the Kevin Chatton Kirk is of this year's trade deadline. Right. You know, you're not, you don't necessarily need to buy there. You just kind of need to make smart deals to get deeper. I mean, yeah, that top line of theirs is, wow. And I have to give, you know, Braden Shendon has had a much more utility for them than I thought he would. Obviously, it helped playing with Schwartz and Teresenko.

And, you know, he's been a bit fortunate as well. Amazing. But yeah, so those three, you know, I'm looking right now, they've played 220 minutes or so at 5-1-5. They're like 60% shot share. I think their outscoring teams 19 to 3 Yeah During that time Like it's

They make plays Like uh And Teresanko is so much fun to walk But then they also have You know Stasney and Steen on that second line So you're right I think if they had like another third And I guess

You know they're kind of banking on The Subotkas and Burrlands of the world to be that Yeah yeah and so like by all means Like see if you've got an internal solution Before you go out Right But this is this to me

Like this is the year for the blues Like you know You know like This is the year Go go take your swan Yeah. The Jets. Yeah.

Currently leading the West. Yeah. Actually, by the time we post this and people listen, they may not be anymore. It's that close. Do you think they're real? Yes and no. Obviously, I don't think they're the best team in the West.

Yeah. And it's weird because their overall performance has taken a dip at 5-1-5 this year. Yeah. At the same time. The penalty kill is like atrocious. Yeah. But it's one of those things where it's like, I guess for the past couple years now, you know, you look at all the talent,

especially they have up front and even on the blue line and you go you know there's some good players here but man they're like constantly in the bottom third and goal tending every season yeah and then now you know connor hellboyics been amazing for them and i don't know if that continues i guess obviously we need to recalibated our expectations for them i mean i don't know is it is it just are we being just like overly infatuated by how dynamic their players are without actually accounting for the fact that they might not be as good of a hockey team like they're They're exciting. Exactly.

They are incredible. Like they are as far as, oh yeah, here's a question for you. Which team has like the, you know, the best collection of talent to watch? I think it might be the Jets. It might be the Jets. Like they're. Well, they were right up there with like Toronto and Tampa Bay and just Connor McDavid by himself in terms of my watchability range.

Oh, sure. Sure. Absolutely. I haven't seen anything to disprove that. Yes. No, they are phenomenal. And it's funny. I was like, I've noticed that like Winnipeg people,

complain a little bit about not getting enough attention from the national media. And I was kind of like, I don't know if you guys really want people looking that closely because they might say like, look, there's some serious warts on this team. And I still believe it. But the thing is, they have so much talent.

It's like when they make something happen, it's like, whew. But you know what the weird thing is? Last I checked, what you would think would be their black holes in their lineup or their liabilities haven't actually necessarily big. Well, I, what the, was it, who's, like, that like TANF cop combination has actually been

perfectly serviceable. It's the top guys who, they've, they've been generating goals. Yeah. But it seems like, and maybe, maybe do they just have the talent that can rig the percentages a bit? Well, sure. There's, there's, you know, like, if you go back, right, like, the 0708 penguins were, uh, were sub 50 possessions. Yeah. And they went to, like all your references are like mid two thousand. Is that, that, that was at your, your, your, your, your, your, you're, like, what's going on here. No, but if you... That 2005 to 2008 range is, you've mentioned it like 15 times. I can't believe this. The glory days. Just because you were like 11 to me. No, the reason I mentioned that is because it's unusual for a bad possession team to be,

you know, it's unusual for a team with that much talent. Right. Do you have a more recent example? Jerks. Super talented team. The Penguins under Mike Johnston. They didn't win. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. So do you have a more recent example, Dimitri? No, well, let me think. It sounds to me like the problem here is that my... It sounds to me like the problem here is that my knowledge of hockey is deeper than yours. And that's what you're covering up with your... Oh, your references are all deep cuts.

I think you're definitely older. That's... Yes. So anyway, but the point is, I guess for anyone who, like, you and I are like having this whole side conversation without explaining what the hell... Like Jets fans, it would have been like holding on the edge of the scene. Without just wondering what the hell I'm talking about? Oh, 7-08 penguins.

Yeah. So the only... 7-08 penguins were a team that had bad possession, got outshot, and went to the Stanley Cup finals, basically on the back of Sidney Crosby, of Jenny Malkin, and Fleury having a big year. Now, do you remember what happened in 0809 is they still stunk of possession,

and all of a sudden the magic was gone. And it wasn't until they got rid of Dan Bilesma, and then all of a sudden, or not Dan Bilesma, Michel Terriam. And then all of a sudden, all of a sudden... Then it changed for them. Absolutely.

Right. So I guess like I look at this Jets team. I'm like, do I think that they're going to be a Stanley Cup contender and over the long run get no shot? I don't really. And, you know, like the talent there is undeniable. Yep. And the results are good right now.

And you know what? It's been a long haul in Winnipeg. And I know what that's like. So I'm happy for their fans. But I still think at some point there's going to be some regression to the mean. Right. And it's going to be painful. Yes.

Yeah. But I feel like the underlying numbers should also regress positive. Like I just like I don't understand why the talent they have is not controlling the puck as often as they should and they'd have in the past Yeah, but they like what's going on with Blake Wheeler for example? That's been kind of eroding for a couple years though Yeah like last year wasn't great for Winnipeg either. No and but if if if they had this goaltending they have right now Oh sure sure we'd be all talking about because they're legit if if if you know anybody who has goaltending like this is going to look legit right right? Right. Like if you put this goal tending on Arizona Arizona is in a playoff spot right now. Yeah. So it's you know, you know, know, it's very much, like, and you look at, like, I don't know, they're penalty kill. Like, I've never seen a penalty kill.

Like, there's two guys in that penalty kill who are given up, like, over 200 shots an hour when their shifts start with a defense's own loss. Right. And they're, like, 240 shots an hour. And, like, it's crazy. I'm like, I've never seen that. Yeah. So, um, I don't know.

I just, I, hey, they're winning games. Enjoy it well at last. But, uh, there's some serious underlying issues, I think. Yeah. Well, Winnipeg's been in need of some magic for a long time now. So if they have a little bit, I'm sure they're going to enjoy it. Absolutely. Dallas is an interesting team to me because you can see the effects of Ken Hitchcock.

Oh, yeah? Very, very discernibly. They're like, you know, by our proxies of pace, they're playing one of the slowest 5-1-5 games in the league this year after being one of the fastest for the past few years. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that. Which is very Hitchcockian. And, you know, they look pretty good, but once again, it seems like it's one of those things that's like, I don't know if it's something in the water or what, but they're not getting the goal tending. And I don't know.

It's just, they seem like kind of a weird team because I'm a bit disappointed by the fact that they've been so pedestrian or so underwhelming because, like, I like their players. And, you know, I don't know if you and I talked about this after free agency, but it was easy to quibble with, you know, the long term plan or whether they'd wind up regretting some of these deals they sign or some of the trades they made. but it was tough to argue that their team was better this season than it was last year. Yeah. But do you think the problem is not playing Julius Honka? Okay, let's not get into this whole Honka. I know I know you really want to get in on that, but I'm just pointing out. I was told that Julius Honka was going to be a Calder candidate this year.

And the coaches are screwing them again. They very well might be. Every year. Every year, new coaches, they screwed for Julius Holla. Yeah, I don't. What do we say about this team? I don't know. It's, to me, it's a team.

The defense is so-so. Right. Obviously, they got the great high-end talent up front. Yeah. But it always seemed like a weird fit for me. Like, hey, we've got Tyler Sagan, Jimmy Ben. What should we do? Let's get Ken Hitchcock.

Yeah. Okay. Right. So, you know, and that's not a slight on Hitch, who's obviously, you know, a Hall of Fame coach. He's going to be there at some point. Yep. But it always seemed like a weird fit for me.

Right. So, I don't know, you know, like they'll do their thing. We'll see where they end up. But to me, they're just kind of, and I thought they were a little better earlier in the season. And then now I'm kind of changing my mind a bit. But I think they're just sort of, they're a team. Yeah. Which is disappointing.

Because I feel like we should have a stronger take on them. Yeah, yeah. Well, to be honest, again, it's like Dallas doesn't have an athletic. So I'm like, all I know is that Julius Honk is not there. All right, we got four teams here. Colorado. Uh, not real. They have an NHL team.

What do you, they're not real in terms of what? What? They're not, they're not, they're not. They're not like an NHL team? No, they're an NHL team. They're not a playoffs. No, no, of course not. And good for them that they're having a better year because living through the year

that Jared Bednar lived through sucks for a coach. And, yeah, you can speak to that. I'm happy for Nathan McKinand. He's having a really good year. and that's about all I have to say about Colorado for now. The Blackhawks. Now, they're an interesting team because my boy, Jan's Jean-Francual Baroubae, is coming up, and Corey Crawford sounds like he's going to be out for a while.

That's bad for them, right? Which I don't think people understand the ramifications of that still to this day, which is weird. Like, I don't understand how good Cory Crawford is? Yeah, and how important he is to the team. See, now, this is interesting. There's a weird thing about Corey Crawford, though, is that, like, he's when when Corey Crawford plays and you know what's funny I should go check and see if this is

changed with quick but um Crawford always has he has a weird mix where teams don't miss the net very often against him so he turns a lot of shots that are missed shots against other teams into saves against him yeah and so I always sort of wonder if his save percentage is a bit inflated because he stops pucks that otherwise would go wide right and the guy who has been at the other end of the scale this historically is burnier and And if you go look, like, you know, Bernier's got a much worse career save percentage than Crawford. Yeah. But if you look at their Fenwick save percentage, it gets way, which, you know, would take into account misses.

Right. All of a sudden the gap gets a lot smaller. But I agree with you. Like Crawford's a big part of that team. He's been carrying that team. And, you know, I think one of the themes of our discussion here today has been, you know, you've got to get saved. Yes. And if Chicago all of a sudden isn't getting those saves, they're a team that, to me, is close enough to the margin that they could fall below it.

Yeah, I mean, obviously, even if he's inflating those numbers a bit, no team gives up a higher rate of shots than the Blackhawks do this year. Yeah. So even if that's inflated a little bit and it's not actually true, like it's still, they're pretty porous defensively. And yeah, they don't have very good goaltending. That could be an issue, you know. Where do you think the Blackhawks are, like, do you see them as a playoff team?

Yeah, but they're like a middle of the pack team. Like, they're, I wonder how many years it's going to take of them not doing anything in the playoffs for people to stop sort of being like blackhawks yeah it's like you know they find players they're okay i think they're middle of a pack they're like hovering around 50% as a shot share team they're it's weird like la's reputation dissipated a lot more quickly than chicago's yeah like chicago's still got the aura yeah yeah i wonder why that is um probably because chicago hasn't missed the playoffs and and i feel like once you miss the playoffs it's sort of like people go oh okay is what you are now.

So when that happens to Chicago, they'll probably be, you know, an element to that. Yeah. So Nashville and Minnesota here, to wrap this up. Nashville and Minnesota. All right.

Who do you want to do first? Do you want to hear, is this a hot take that Nashville? I mean, obviously, they represented the Western Conference in the finals last year, but I still think they're the best team of West. Yeah, I think they'll have a hell of a fight

with St. Louis. Yeah. You know, and one thing is, in fairness to the Preds, obviously they haven't Ryan Ellis all year. And it's just crazy. Like, P.K. is just getting, like, I think, like, poor P.K. He's with, uh, what's his name? Um, Milan. Ameline. Yeah. And I'm sure like, PK was like, you know, I thought, you know, just when I thought it was out, they pulled me back in.

Yeah, absolutely. That was a reference to the godfather. I got that. Okay. I wasn't sure. Um, um, so, yeah, I, you know, I want to see what they have when they have their full defense. Right. But obviously, it's been a good. start um you know they've got a good group of forwards some exciting guys and yeah like i you know i i think everybody kind of likes the preds and yeah they're an enjoyable group to watch so i really hope that they uh you know i'd have no problems if they made a big run again do you have any thoughts of minnesota oof i don't know what do you think about minnesota i don't know man but every time i tune in bruce's face is getting redder and redder by the day so i think mount bruce is about to explode

here's the thing with them right so they haven't had perisi all year Yeah, but that would have meant a lot more six years ago. Yeah, but he's still a guy who plays higher in the lineup and pushes guys down. You know, like when that guy's not there, you know, there's a ripple effect. So I just sort of wonder, like I kind of feel like for them, you know, they made their big play in 2012 when they signed Parisian Souter. And we're what, so 13, 14, 15, 15, 16, 17. They got their five years, you know, they had sort of their five years swing with that. Right.

And it hasn't worked. And, you know, I just, I look at them, I see an older team. And they're going to be without Jared Spurgeon. It sounds like Mike Russo was saying for four to six weeks. Yes. And that is a huge blow for them. Spurgeon, if you don't. I'm very curious to see how suitors numbers look in that time.

Yes. Well, I think he'll get, yeah, I'll be very interested, too. I'll be very interested too. So, you know, I don't know. I kind of wonder if they're at the end of the road, like just talent-wise, and they need to tear it down. You don't think so? I mean, a lot of their core is still, like, you'd think in it's prime, though, right? Like, Granlin, Zucker, Niederrider, oil.

Yeah, but those guys aren't. They're all good players, come on. They're fine players. Well, way better than Zach Poreze. I guess. I don't know. Wow, Zach Poreseh in 2007. Let me tell you, boy.

And maybe I'm, yeah, maybe I'm not taking into account. I, you know, Prezze's decline, but I think they do have some older guys on big dollars. Yeah, they do for sure. And they don't really have a star. Like, all those players you mentioned, like, they're fine enough. But they aren't guys you build teams around. But so do you think someone is taking Ryan Souter's contract? No.

Do you? No, but then so how do you, like, what's the course of action for, quote, unquote, tearing it down for them? I don't know. I, uh, I don't know. I, I honestly, I don't know. You know, you know, someone take, actually, you know what? I say no, maybe someone would.

I think Ryan Suter still got some cashier. Oh, man, I didn't realize how bad their numbers were this year. Who? As a team. Minnesota? Yeah. Oh, they're getting run over. Yeah, this is bad.

Yeah. And did you watch that Minnesota Winnipeg game? Yeah, yeah. Well, they had like 11 shots on goal and like halfway to the time. And the Jets just started running wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it was, and like that's when you talk about, like, when you talk about the talent, right? Like, I don't think Minnesota's got any, like, boy, I like a lot of the Jets guys.

but like is there anyone on Minnesota who's like a Nick Eulers? No. No. Is there anyone on Minnesota is like a lining? No. No. Like they're maybe maybe. But like, but like you get my point.

Right. Like like Minnesota like there's nothing wrong with the players they got necessarily. But they don't have like the high end talent. Okay. But so why how do we explain account for other than Zach Breeze's absence? How do we account for how much they've fallen off this year? Because didn't they shoot like a zillion percent? He did.

But I feel like Bruce Booder team is generally kind of out. You know, everyone says that and it's not really true. It's not? No. And you can have a big fight about it. But like, like everyone talks about it. Nobody ever mentions 2015-16, right? You remember what the Ducks?

They couldn't score for the first half of the year. Yeah. But then he turned them into a possession juggernaut? Yeah. Yeah. But it's, I don't know. I think it's, I think, oh, Bruce Boudreau teams always score. Well, Bruce Boudreux teams have generally had Ryan Getslap or Corey Piers.

or Alex Hvechkin or Nick Baxter or Alex Salmon. Like you go all the way back. And like I'm not knocking Bruce Boudreau here, but I'm just making the point that he's had some very good talent over the course of his career. And he's had some very high-end finishers. And so to say, oh, Bruce Boodro teams always score, I'm not, you know, yes, they've done well, but I'm not sure how much of that is Bruce Boudreau and how much of that is, you know,

we have guys who are super talented. Right. And, you know, in Minnesota right now he doesn't have that. Yeah. And so I don't know. I don't know. I just, I kind of wonder if this is the end of the line for that team because I don't know, you know, I think they probably could move the suitor deal. It wouldn't surprise me if they could.

Yeah. But, you know, it's, I just don't see enough high-end talent there. Yeah. And the problem is if they move the suitor deal, they don't have suitor and he's one of their two best defensemen. That's true. So what are you going to do? Yeah, that's a tough one. All right.

Let's get out of here. It's been 70 minutes. Now is a time where you can plug some stuff. Now I can plug stuff? Yes. All right. Yeah. So I read stuff over the athletic.

Come check it out. Free trial. Theathletic.com slash free trial. I think if you, I don't know, I don't, I'm pretty sure this is true. So I'll just say it. If you message me or whatever, I think I can make sure you get a discount. Maybe, probably. If that's not true and people message, you just don't respond.

Yes, that's exactly it. So if I ignore you, it means I was wrong. So, yeah. So that's what I'm doing. We got some great stuff. We have a great group of people. Craig Custence, who I believe is on the PEDEOCast, Mount Rushmore. Yeah, and he should be on soon next week, I think.

Yeah, well, Craig and Dimitri will continue their mutual admiration society. So Custin, LeBron, James Myrtle, all sorts of Justin Bourne. So we got all sorts of talented hockey people. Pretty much everyone in the hockey world except for me. Except for Dimitri. Yeah. Well, you know, got to have limits. Yes.

So come check that out. It's a lot of fun. And it's really cool getting to read some people who, you know, I maybe didn't read enough and learning more about what's going on in other places. That was a good plug. All right. Tyler, thanks for taking the time of chat and let's do this again soon. Anytime, buddy.

The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockeypedocast.