The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 212: Filibustering on Rebuilds

Episode Date: December 19, 2017

Craig Custance joins the show to discuss the many different ways to go about rebuilding a team, future trades that make way too much sense not to happen, and a variety of other topics. Sponsoring today's show is FanDuel, the PDOcast’s one-stop shop for Daily Fantasy Hockey. They’ve set up a contest for listeners of the show to compete in, which will be running every Thursday evening. To join in on the fun, just go to fanduel.com/PDO and make sure to let them know that we sent you. Also sponsoring the show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

Are you ready for the most ridiculous internet sports show you have ever seen? Welcome to React, home of the most outrageous and hilarious videos the web has to offer. So join me, Rocky Theos, and my co-host, Raiders Pro Bowl defensive end, Max Crosby, as we invite your favorite athletes, celebrities, influencers, entertainers in for an episode of games, laughs, and of course the funniest reactions to the wildest web clips out there. Catch React on YouTube, and that is React, R-E-A-X-X. Don't miss it. This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light.

These days, everything is go, go, go. It's non-stop hustle all the time. Work, friends, family, expect you to be on 24-7? Well, sometimes you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. Coors Light is cold-loggered, cold-filtered, and cold-packaged. It's as crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. It is literally made to chill. Coors Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind.

So when you want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with Drizzly or Instacart. Celebrate responsibly. Coors Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. The Hockey P.D.O.cast is brought to you by Get Down BP, which brings people together with a goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way. Regressing to the mean since 2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host, Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the Hockey PEDEOCast.

My name is Dmitri Filipovic, and joining me is PDOCAS Mount Rushmore member, a fellow podcaster, and just all around good guy, Craig Custens. Craig, what's going on, man? Nothing. I actually went to Mount Rushmore this summer and took the family. and we thought it would be like this five minute oh look it's the presidents and let's go back down the mountain it was actually really fun and the kids loved it and my like we hung out there for like eight hours so I recommend Mount Rushmore did they enjoy the fact that they saw their dad's face on up there

so but there's a point when you're driving back down where you see like um you see the side view right and it's only maybe I think it's Washington so it's just like this giant head sticking out of a mountain it's it was kind of um it was bizarre but yeah no i don't remember i should have oh and this is good i mean not to get off track right off the hop but we saw um we're sitting there and we saw kelly ann conway the is that her name the trump uh the the woman who kind of ran Donald trump's campaign yeah and she was just it was like a secret service member like she was like in our little tour group and i didn't know how to handle it.

This is one of my favorite parts of your book behind the bench, still available on Amazon, I'm assuming. It was the anecdotes about you're like family vacations and traveling down in the RV and all those good stuff. I feel like there needs to be a second follow-up book just based on those stories. It's funny because, yeah, we talked about this, but it ended up being way more personal. And essentially just because I was like, here's this window into my life that in the primary thing was interviewing all these coaches but I'm like the narrative was going to be yours you're

coming with me so reader so let's do this so Craig I mean I know you've uh you've been banging out some podcast episodes of your own but I'm going to give you a a lesson as a host here this is why I'm a I'm a podcasting professional I started talking there about your writing and now I'm going to use that as a segue to get into our next topic here which is which is a topic I feel like you've been really it's become your corner over the past couple weeks It's been looking at various rebuilds and organizations that have gone through them over the past however many years. And, you know, obviously you primarily focus writing about the Red Wings, but you also cover the league as a whole.

So you're just trying to relate those topics to what's going on in Detroit right now. And I don't know. I think it's a fascinating subject because obviously, as you've outlined, there isn't necessarily, you know, one right answer or one blueprint to follow where, you know, if you hit steps A, B, and C, you're going to for sure win a title or something like that. Like, there's so much nuance to it. So I think that's what makes it a very interesting discussion. It's this never-ending debate.

So basically, it's me writing about rebuilds and kind of examining different ones around the league, essentially through the lens of, you know, if it's for Red Wings fans primarily, but I want to make it interesting for everybody. It's because, to me, it's the only story in Detroit. Like, I'm having a really hard time, and maybe this is just me, writing about these games. because who I mean if they go into overtime against the Boston Bruins in a game you know and there's five points out of a whatever like I see really zero interest in this game to me ultimately for this franchise the only thing that matters is what they do next and how they approach the acquisition of good young players and so that's the like I'm hardly writing about the games and if we do at the athletic Detroit it's I'm having you know, Prashath do it through the lens of analytics or we've started using this former coaching player, Tofer Scott, to do film breakdown. And I'm like, man, just, I'm just going to talk about the big picture and how they're utilizing young players, how other teams

have rebuilt, because that to me is the only story right now in Detroit. Right. But the thing with the Red Wings is fascinating to me is that, you know, even if before they necessarily start thinking about a rebuild or how they're going to, you know, what they're going to look like by the time they're ready to be good again in their glory years. It's, they sort of still have to go through that like uncomfortable process of tearing it down kind of because they have all these veterans and, you know, long term expensive contracts on their books. So it's not like, like they still have to go through this one big phase to actually get to that point where they're just accumulating assets. Like I think it's, it's obviously different because of the salary

cap system and everything, but I don't know how close to you follow basketball, but a team like the Brooklyn Nets and the NBA is fascinating to me because, you know, they made this horrible trade where they basically gave away all their draft picks in the future, and then they wound up sucking, and so they had to find unique ways to accumulate talent, so, you know, they were taking on bad contracts to take on extra picks or failed prospects and stuff like that, and that's obviously a bit tougher to do in the NHL when you're already hamstrung by your own finances, but I think that a team like the Red Wings has to get really creative with how they're going to rebuild here, which is much more fascinating to me than a team that has already torn everything down and

it's just in the pure talent accumulation process. Yeah. So, I mean, it's going to be a long process, but I do like that. We're basically able to chronicle it essentially from the get-go. Maybe a year ago was really when they sold at the deadline. That was the first admission. Okay, you know, we're going to go down this path a little bit. But, but yeah, so the creativity is an interesting thing.

And so I got into that with the devils and Ray Scherro and his approach. Because I've had this debate with people in Detroit and kind of at the management side about the contracts and the cap space. And, you know, they see value. And I think there's some validity here. And then there's, like you said, there's a lot of nuance. they see value in having the veteran players around, the guys that cost money, because as you're bringing in the young players,

you don't want to just hand them ice time. You want somebody else you can turn to that can play the game a little bit so that you can actually take ice time away from the young players. And I'm with them on that. And so because I've seen it in Buffalo where, or in Edmonton or Arizona, where young players were just basically entitled to,

you know, your top draft you're going to get 19 minutes a game at 4. And I don't know if that necessarily works. And I think that's part of the issue in Buffalo is there was some entitlement with some of the young players. And so keeping veterans around costs some money. But to get to your point about creativity, I wonder how much of that there's going to be in Detroit because you need some flexibility to be creative, I think, in terms of cap space and money management. And they don't currently have that. And maybe that's where the creativity comes into play where it's like,

like, okay, if you want X, Y, and Z, you got to take this contract with it. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you know, they didn't necessarily take another contract with it, but, like, New Jersey benefited the summer, for example, from having some space open on their books when a team like Washington came through a financial cap crunch and they basically just took Marcus Johansson off their hands. And I think cap space is obviously one asset and one way to go through that rebuild.

But, yeah, like a team like New Jersey is fascinating to me because on the, one hand they have, you know, they've stunk for a while, so they've accumulated all these top picks and obviously his year looks very exciting and we'll see about a guy like Pavel Zaka and so on and so forth, but they've also been pretty aggressive in terms of capitalizing on trade opportunities as well, whether it's been obviously the big Taylor Hall one, but even like a, you know, like a Kyle Palmieri trade or something like that and you do need to, like there isn't just the one avenue to make your team better. And I think that's the biggest part of this discussion.

Well, that's what, so that was Ray Sheryl, when we were talking about it, he's like, man, if you just sat there and we're like, I'm going to, we're just going to, you know, trade at the deadline and get, you know, third round picks. If you just did that, it would take 10 years, really. You know what I mean? So, so he's, and you also don't want to accumulate too many picks. So that's what I, like I, I, you know, I'd have been impressed with what they've done in New Jersey because it's been all these combinations of strategies. And so they've traded for draft picks, but then they spun those. draft picks into Marcus Johansson or whatever you know or like you said so so like they've you know they're acquiring draft picks then they're spinning those draft picks into into players you know they're able to make those trades in part because they took on Mark Savard Salarangka I think they got a second round pick from Florida for that and and so then so essentially that cap space it's very tangible now that cap space that block us cap space is a second round pick like that's value yes it is well but then, you know, on the sort of counterpoint to that is a team like the Arizona Coyotes.

And I do want to talk about them because whenever I do any sort of radio hit or anything like that, the person always feels obligated to be like, so how about those areas? It was an Arizona Coyotes. What does this say about analytics? And I always roll my eyes and vomit in my mouth a little bit. But it's while you're on the radio, you do that? Yeah. Yeah.

But, you know, I power, I power through it. It works out fine. It's fine. It's radio. No one's listening to radio these days. It's all about podcast, Craig. It's all about the podcast. But the thing with Arizona is like, you know, this summer, I think objectively, like it wasn't even an analytical thing.

Like, I think anyone, if you just look at their moves on the surface, it's like, yeah, they added a bunch of useful NHL players that are still very productive. And Derek Stepan and Jason Demers and Nicholas Jalmers and Nicholas Jalmers. and Anturantan. They didn't really subtract anything from their roster. And even if you didn't think they'd necessarily, you know, become a playoff team, you would have thought, all right, there's going to be a certain level of respectability. And maybe their floor is going to be elevated a little bit.

And instead, once again, they're the worst team in the league. And they're minus 44 and goal differential this year. And it all looks horrible. And it's like, I don't, you know, as a hockey analyst and a quote unquote expert, I'm supposed to have an answer here for what's going on or what they do. It just seems, it's like one of those situations where it doesn't really seem like a very obvious answer because I would have thought that at, at worst, like what they did last year would have helped a little bit, but it hasn't at all. So I just don't know where they go from here. They're interesting.

So in part of my, so I basically feel like I'm becoming a beat writer on two things league wide. One is rebuilds. And the other one is my obsession with the class of 2019 free agent, the group of defensemen. And so, but it's part of my rebuild obsession. we talked i did a podcast with frank provanzano who was with the stars and capitals did two fairly significant rebuilds but through did them in different ways in each city and one of it basically he was able to boil it down to three three things that are going to a successful fan or a successful rebuild and one of them is um ownership and basically his conclusion was if you if you're

missing one of these three things or two of these three things you you're toast you're you're It's not going to work regardless of how smart you are. And my biggest concern isn't the operation John Chike is running in Arizona or his decision-making, because I think he's made a lot of smart moves. I have a lot of concerns about ownership there. And are they going to be able to spend enough to fill out the lineup around the young players? Because I think they are on some level running into what the Red Wings warn about in that you don't have enough veterans. You have some.

I mean, I like some, they brought in some veterans to compete for, you know, for ice time and all that. But not nearly enough. And, and the other thing that doesn't get talked about enough in this process is just blind luck. And I think the coyotes have been unlucky. Like they've been, you know, in Vancouver to a certain extent has been unlucky where, you know, they, they have been drafting in worse spots and they probably should have been, you know, if Arizona gets Austin Matthew, or something along the way. That looks completely different. And then the last thing is, you know, because as part of my job is the Reveiled Beatwriter,

I'm writing about the Winnipeg Jets and Kevin Shevoldeuf's approach. And, man, if you look at their drafts since he's been at the helm there, they've pretty much hit. And to have success, you can't have any major misses at the top of the draft or else it sets you back. or else it sets you back years, I think. And I think the Dylan Strom over Marner or Zach Werencky or whoever else is in top of that draft. Right. So when you factor in, okay, you missed a ping pong wall, you pick the wrong guy. So those are two, that's two years lost, essentially, of a rebuild.

Yeah, but that's what makes this discussion so fascinating because I'd argue that Kevin Chilaldiav and the Jets are the exact opposite of what we were talking about just earlier with, you know, Ray Shero and the Devils where for the longest time it was like, when is Kevin Shelday off going to make a move? He's so comfortable and patient with his job security and just hanging back and letting things develop. And it was a lot of just accumulating those draft picks

and kind of just hitting home runs on all of them. And obviously they got a bit lucky with getting a guy like Patrick Lainey as well. But all of a sudden now they have this loaded team and it's all coming together. And I guess, yeah, it does go to show that there isn't just that one way of doing it. I do have a question here. So, you know, we're going to dip into a Twitter mailbag here, and it goes into this discussion.

Lars Thorsal asked whether Vegas and their success early this season has offered an alternative way of building your team and whether we think it'll, you know, catch on and sort of goes with this idea of spreading the wealth and having, you know, four even lines and three defense pairs as opposed to a top-heavy superstar build. And I think that is a, I mean, that's a discussion we can get into. you here like what do you think about that i think here's where i stand on that i think you can make

the playoffs in that building that way i don't know if you can win a stanley cup building that way and i think ultimately in a league full of parity if you're if you're good from top to bottom and you're competing every night and you have a good coach you're gonna you're gonna accumulate points but when everybody's dialed in once the postseason gets here and you know you're not accumulating points in october and november you're trying to win a seven-game series, I just think that's when you see the great players take over. And maybe, you know, if you don't have Sidney Crosby on your roster where he just takes over a game, or maybe a guy, and this is generalizing here, but maybe a guy like Phil Kessel

isn't, is tuned in this time of year as he is in the spring. Like all those things kind of factor in, I think those teams that are just really solid from top to bottom that don't have those game changers, I think it's really hard to win in the spring. Yes, I agree. And obviously, you know, what George McPhee and the, and the Golden Knights did was not by their own choice. It was obviously forced to them based on the expansion process. But I do think there's something to be said for not having, you know, active liabilities on your roster. I think teams have obviously gotten better at identifying, you know, useful role players and making sure that, you know, their fourth liners can still contribute in place.

to a certain level, but I mean, especially if you look around the league on the blue lines, like how many teams are there that have more than, you know, three or four defensemen that you feel really good about? Like, it seems like every team is constantly relying on at least like one or two guys that are pretty sketchy, but you just sort of kind of shrug it off because, you know, it's, it's, it's part of the process. I mean, you know, with the cap, you can't have, you can't fill out every roster ideally, so you just kind of live with it.

It seems like that's one area where teams really could benefit. It's like knocking it out of the park with bargain bin signings in the third pair and the fourth line. Well, what Vegas isn't saddled with is the mistakes of the past, like so many of these teams are. And some of it's of their own doing. Some of it is from the previous GM. And what George McPhee had was a completely clean slate. And I think that's a great point by you in that there's not a lot of dead weight in terms of salary on that roster and I think that's you're seeing the benefit now I would say like the closest

comparable in terms of a team that that was trying to win this way with depth rather than star power was the Minnesota wild for years and and you just like they made the playoffs every year always seem to be good in the regular season and then they would play a black hawks team and you know Patrick Kane would break a game open or whatever and I think it's just a hard way to go about it in the spring yeah I agree yeah the star players are obviously the ones that move the needle, especially when you can play more and rely on them more. And there's a lot more attention to detail and teams of game planning for guys.

It's a lot tougher when you don't have the one or two guys you can really rely on to carry everyone else around them. Yeah. No, it's, and then it's funny. You know, the debate now becomes what George McPhee does moving forward. And, you know, at some point he's going to have to make a call on some of his, on some of his UFAs and do you just, is he trying to make the playoffs in year one?

Or do you stick to the original plan, which is to move guys like James Neal or, you know, some of those guys off that D? Well, here's what I'm fascinated about. What's going to happen with the guy like Jonathan Marshall this summer? That's a good one too.

Because he, I'm waiting for his player page to load right now. He is turning 27 years old in a couple of couple weeks. And, you know, he is a player that I imagine more so than maybe some of his peers would really like to cash in this year because he's playing on such team-friendly deals for the entirety of his career, having to work his way through the HL in the past two years. He's been playing for a sub-1 million dollars per season. So at the same time, though, like, you know, while you don't, his track record is still pretty limited at the NHL level and he is turning 27. So it's not like

he's this kind of super young and up-and-coming guy who has all of his best years ahead of him, it seems like he's much more legit than not, and he's definitely proving this year that, you know, while last year maybe his shooting percentage was elevated a bit, and there was still sort of that uncertainty of how much of it was the fact that he was playing a lot on the top line with really good line mates. This year, he's certainly shown that while I think, you know, Bill Carlson's been a great surprise, and Riley Smith is a really, really good player, it's not like anyone has been carrying him. He's looked fantastic and super dynamic and capable of just causing havoc in the

offensive zone against opposing defenses. So I would not be very reluctant to pay him for that, but I'm very fascinated to see whether Vegas is going to be the team that does so and how much he's going to warrant and what the market is going to be like for him. And, you know, if they do fall off, what would interest for him be at the trade deadline? Like there's so many moving parts year that are fascinated to me with him. Well, the key to me with him is he's making $750,000. Yes. So my, you know, if I'm George McPhee, nobody on this roster may be like shy of, you know, a Nate Schmidt or Shea Theodore. Like I'm not, I'm not committing to Marcia's so long term. Like this is, this is for four or five years on the line. So I'm, I, he has so much value to me if you're,

a capped out team trying to win a Stanley Cup. You know what I mean? He's negligible in terms of a cap hit at the trade deadline once you prorated salary. So that, so he has value as just being a good offensive player and he has value as any team can add him. There isn't, you know what I'm saying? So like, boy, I think he becomes a guy you almost have to move for those reasons because you can call up the Blackhawks or the, you know, let's say it's the Bruins. or the penguins or one of these teams that that look good or the capitals

and maybe they feel like they just need one more scorer and he may be the only guy that they can trade for I think there was a version of this last year that there was a good offensive player who was on a really low contract was it Patrick Eves yes maybe it was Patrick Eaves where it was like he ended up getting a first round pick

or some sort or higher than you would have thought right that simply because he was the one player that team could squeeze in right And so they had to pay a premium for him. And I wonder if Marcius O will be this example this year. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, you see all the hoops. The Blackhawks jump through every year to finagle the cap and try to make this work.

So, I mean, obviously he'd be a very desirable asset for them, and maybe they'd pay a little more than they would otherwise for that. I mean, yeah, you look like, you know, he is third in the league in cost per point, which is an unused stat. It's not anew stat, but it's something I've been looking at more closely lately. and his company is all guys that are on entry-level deals. And I think that is another point to hit on here with our discussion on rebuilds and assets and value.

It's such an immense value to a team when you have guys that can perform while they're still in their rookie deals because their cost is just so suppressed. And we all constantly see that, you know, teams generally in this league and get into, trouble when they start paying for past performance and now what's to come or what's currently happening.

And so, you know, a guy like Marshall is here where he's basically making the equivalent of what a guy would be on his first deal and he's performing like a guy who's in his prime and he's already a top line guy. Like, that's such an immense value to whatever team he's going to wind up being on for the rest of this season. The only thing we don't know is how appealing he is to teams that are trying to add playoff. So, you know, teams typically like to have the bigger, stronger players for the. their playoff run, right, when the game's a little tougher.

And he's got, whether or not that's the right tack. The reality is there's GM, they're going to be like, I don't know if I want to acquire a smallish player for a playoff run. I don't know if that'll factor in or not. Yeah, you know what team would he would be fascinating on, but I guess he doesn't really solve their need for a center, but like he'd fit perfectly on the penguins, for example. But, you know, they're... I like him on Pittsburgh.

Yeah, especially, I mean, I guess. they're pretty good in terms of their top six, but I mean, it's a team that is obviously, I think that would not have those types of concerns about how he'd look in the playoffs based on the team they've been using and the success they've had the past few years. So I think he'd fit in pretty well there,

but obviously I imagine that having a guy who can play down the middle on the third line would be a bigger priority for them, but that's another team that's going to be pretty cash-strapped who could squeeze him in pretty effortlessly and might be willing to give up extra future assets to try and win a third cup. Yeah, no, I... I think there's a few teams that could use them.

And so to the original thought that like these are, I think these are all moves that George McPhee has to make in terms of selling. And I think he should, the one thing I would say is I don't think GMs give their fan base enough credit. You know, I think there's GMs that are just like, oh, you know, the fans aren't going to get it. If you articulate your plan, if you're George McPhee and you come out and say, we still want to make the playoffs here. but our goal is to win a Stanley Cup five years from an hour to be in this you know and these are the moves we can have to make and I still believe this team even if we trade this guy you know and you can point to Kevin Chatton Kirk in the blues last year you know that Doug Armstrong it's so smart of him to make that trade they still make the playoffs yep that would be my I think you make the move but you also articulate the plan you to the to the fan base and reinforce it and and and and and and and And, you know, don't dumb it down. Like, these fans are smart.

Have you been on Twitter, Craig? Are you sure? Are you standing by that statement still? The fans are smart. Some fans, the fans I want rooting for my team are smart. Yeah. All right, let's take a quick break here to hear from a sponsor, and we'll pick this conversation back up on the other than the things.

It's a new week, which means that this Thursday, we'll all get a fresh start on Fan Do it. We'll be once again hosting the PDO cast listener lead. For those of you that haven't gotten in the fun yet, here's the deal. We've been running a daily fantasy contest for everyone listens to the show, and it's held during the jam-pack Thursday nights later games. We've got a link that takes you directly to the contest at fanduil.com slash PDO,

and once you're there, there's a $2 buy-in. After you get that sorted, you just pick the best collection of players that you can fit under the salary cap, and then sit back and follow along in real time. If you've never done daily fantasy before, I honestly can recommend it highly enough. You get to enjoy the high of drafting a team and competing against people without the commitment of season-long leagues.

So if you mess up and pick the wrong guys on any given night, you get a chance to make amends and do it all over again the next day. The Thursday contest we've been doing have been a blast, even though I very clearly have no idea what I'm doing, and I think I'll figure it out eventually, but for now I'm having my lunch money taken from me by you guys. Last week might have been the most pitiful showing of all from me. I wound up finishing the night with the worst score of anyone in the contest,

and aside from Nikita Kutrov, who was money for me as usual, apparently none of the players got the memo about the contest. Willie 905 took home the number one spot, pretty much doubling my score by loading up on the Blue Jacket, at skaters versus the poorest islanders defense and the flyers at home against the lowly sabers. So if you haven't been playing along so far, but would like to start,

just go to fandul.com and make sure you sign up using the promo code PDO. One of the perks of being a new user is that you'll also receive a free entry into the NHO breakaway contest that's guaranteed to pay out thousands of dollars in cash prizes. I'll see you all there on Thursday night.

And now, let's get back to the show. Okay. So here's an interesting thought exercise, Craig. Yes. what is a move that you would like to see if you were just fantasy booking the rest of the season what's like a fit to you that makes a lot of sense for a trade or you know getting a player from one situation to another or just i don't know i'm putting you on the spot a little bit here i didn't give you a time for this but is there anything like is there a team that you see that has such an obvious need and then a player that you think fits that that just is a match made in heaven that makes way too much sense to not happen um it's a good question so like can we talk it through a little bit because i i haven't thought about this at all i'll give you one of mine and then you can come back with me with what you think on that and then what you have as your own idea okay and you can speak to this because um two of the

names that are going to come up here in this point um are detroit red wings players but it's um it's new york islanders and looking for a goalie um all right And the reason I bring that up is because, you know, I've been watching a lot of the Islanders lately. I think they've been fascinating. I think that the dynamic that Matthew Barzal has added to that team is so intriguing to me because just this added wrinkle now. Obviously, we had the whole what's going to happen with John Tavares this year this summer. And now, you know, they actually look like a really good team that has a second line all of a sudden. And maybe that changes their outlook for both this season and moving forward.

but man their goal tending is has been horrendous and whether it's been a halak or whether it's been grice they've just been bleeding goals against and I think they desperately like they're they're good enough at this point where acquisition that solidified that and that a little bit could make such a big difference for them move the needle um you know they're their third in goals against this season and they're second in goals four and you know they're this like all submit high pace, high event team that has been really fun to watch, but I think that their ceiling is going to be pretty limited with this current goaltending they have. And I don't know, what do you think about either Jimmy Howard or Petter Marzik as a solution

there? I would say, so a realistic solution, if we're just being completely real, is Peter Marzik to the Islanders for a third round pick and some sort of salary retention. Like that's, when I've talked to people around the league, that seems to be the going rate on Morazic. Maybe if you're asking the Red Wings to retain 50% of the salary, you have to move that to a second round pick. And where it makes some sense is if you're the islanders, you have a half of a year to look at them and decide if this is a guy you want to keep long term. The conventional wisdom on Marazic is that with a $4 million salary, whoever acquires them probably isn't going to qualify them. And so you're essentially trading for a rental.

So that's that's kind. So there's low risk, fairly low risk, you know, potentially solidifying the position. The only thing is I haven't seen Peter Morazick play especially effective in goal in about a year and a half. So I don't know if you're solving the problem. You might be, you might just be creating another one. But again, you're only getting up a third round pick. And so whatever. I think personally, the better move is to go after Jimmy Howard because you're solidifying the position now for a couple of years.

You're sending a message to John Tavares that, you know, this is something we want to take care of. And, you know, it's going to cost more than it would to get Peter Morazic. My only concern is, you know, when I've pitched this idea up the food chain in Detroit, I don't, and we'll find out. maybe they are. I don't know if they're ready to do that big of a move in terms of just a pure subtraction because there is concern of Marazic and the young goalies that aren't even close to ready that they've drafted in the last couple of years. So that to me would signal a complete philosophical shift in Detroit because it would be a punt.

You would just be completely punting at that point. Right. And this is a team that still wants to compete, still wants it's a point. still wants its players fighting for playing time, still wants it all out. And I think a Jimmy Howard trade, while I'm on the record of saying, I think it's a smart thing to do if you can get max value

because I'm not sure when his value is going to be higher than it is in this stretch right now, you do it. And who knows? Like, maybe you can talk them into taking friends Nielsen and some, if you retain half of his salary. And just say, just push all in with Tavaris in the final year of his contract.

Yeah, that'd be an interesting way to go. I mean, yeah, we just talked about how the Red Wings are going to have an uphill battle of both getting rid of contracts but also accumulating assets and getting creative. So that would be one way to do so. I mean, the thing with Mrazik is, like, I don't want to, it's tough because on the one hand, the last 60 games or so over the past year and a half, I've been very alarming. He's been like an 890 goalie in that time. But I still find it like weird that, I mean, he's not even 26 years old yet. and he obviously showed that he has a ton of talent and ability. So it's just like,

I find it hard to believe that that just completely disappeared and is gone forever, even though we have seen that the goal-dending position can be super volatile. And sometimes when it goes, it just goes. But, like, for the right price, I guess, he still seems like an interesting gamble just because it feels like, like the extreme about the potential outcomes with him is so vast, but the high end is so, intriguingly high that it might be worth it for a team like the Islanders, but obviously, I guess it would

depend on what you are giving up. And I guess a third round pick isn't anything too, too rich for your blood, so that seems very plausible. If I'm doing that, if I'm the Islanders, I'm doing it today. Because I want to give Peter Morazic, I want to see what I have in him between now and the deadline. Right. And maybe he takes off and you're often cooking and you can address some other needs at the deadline. or you say, okay, that we took a flyer on the, because there's not a ton of goalies available right now. So, I mean, that is the one positive if you're the Detroit Red Wings is, I mean, the fact that we're even talking about a second and a third

on a guy who's got a 901 save percentage last year and an 888 this year. Yeah. Shows you how little there is out there. Well, don't you think that, you know, you make the point of doing it now as opposed to waiting at the deadline? I mean, I don't know how you feel about this just philosophically, but I feel like that's pretty much true for every deal. Everything.

It's always bizarre to me when teams wait until the last minute and then pay these exorbitant prices because they have this desperation and they want to make some sort of move and have some in the show for the trade deadline. But I think the smart move is definitely getting ahead of it when there's less interest and less focus on it. And obviously you give yourself the extra time to see if that's the right fit and let that player gel with the rest of the team, but also you probably wind up paying less of a price

just because the sellers can't really hold you over a barrel because there's still so much time left, so you can wait for other things to develop. There's a couple obstacles, and I agree with you, there's a, there's like the cap obstacle where some of the teams that are trying to win a Stanley Cup have to wait to the bell because they're trying to get every dollar off that contract.

And it's not often in early December, I guess we're not even early anymore, In December, we're getting to this point, but you don't have a lot of identified sellers. And especially now in a league where everybody is, you know, it's all scrunched together. So, and again, and that's why if you're the Red Wings, it's, you know, Ken Holland publicly has been saying, you know, 10, 10, 10, we want to see these next 10 or 15 games and see where we're at. And like, if you can, if you can open up for business and maximize your return, I'm putting, the for sale sign now, you know, now. Yeah. Like, who, like, who cares what happens?

I've seen enough, you know? And, and they should have, too, at this point. And I, and it's not a criticism of the Red Wings. Like, I watched this team very closely, and they're playing really hard. And, and I've actually been impressed with that. Like, this is, and I guess it goes to their culture and all these things. Like, they're, they're in games. They just don't have, they're just not that good in terms of their roster. Like, they don't have, like, the last Boston game was such a great example of it, where they played, They had the lead. They played hard.

They're competing. But Brad Marchand makes two plays and the game's over. You know, like you have a superstar who just says, you know, I'm not losing this game. And boom. And the game's over. And they just don't have that. And they don't have, you know, a couple other guys in that roster. But so, yeah, I'm putting for sale sign up immediately.

And the other thing, I would say last thing, I know this is a long conversation. But there's a couple of GMs I would watch on this front who, their MO has been to acquire early and that's Jim Rutherford and David Poyle so like those are the guys that definitely subscribe to your theory that early is better and you look at through the years you know Rutherford had made the trade for Carl Hagelin in recent years and I think that was an earlier you know that was an earlier fit Trevor Daley was another one I think that was a December trade so so yeah I think if we're going to watch guys like those Those two seem to be GMs who really value getting players in early.

Yeah. Well, I don't, you know, I hate to break it to Ken, but I don't think we need to wait 10 more games to see where this Red Wings team is at. I feel like we all really know. And maybe that's what he has to say publicly. Like, I don't, you know, I don't know. But, I mean, I think we've seen enough. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, I was thinking about other names that Islanders could target here. I mean, you know, we've heard like Michael Neuberth or maybe they call the Canaan. about an Anders Nielsen or something. There isn't anything that, you know, there isn't a super sexy choice where it's like, wow, that is a guy that, you know, could immediately come in and be awesome. But at this point, getting even like league average goaltending, considering how proficient they are offensively could be what the Islanders need more than anything. So I think they definitely need to explore that.

Have you thought about any other interesting kind of matches while we've been filibustering here? So, that was good genuine conversation. In fact, it was so not filibustering, I haven't thought about it all without thinking about what I was actually saying. So the team to me that I'm interested in is Columbus because they make a push for Matt Duchesne and don't get them. This is a team that obviously feels like they need some help in a top six role center. And so I'm curious to see what plan B is for the Columbus Blue. jackets because I think that's a team that's in a very interesting place in time because they're good they're also young but they have players who are coming up on big raises so they're

in a weird and I never you know I'm I hate to do windows opening and closing but because I don't think it's necessarily opening and closing I just think for this particular group in Columbus there's maybe there's a bit of the Washington thing where they're going to have to let some people go or make some really hard decisions. in, you know, next year, the year after, because, just because you have, like, Panarin is, after 1819, is an unrestricted free agent. And, you know, $6 million probably isn't going to cut it for him. And they have, you know, Bobrovsky's up after 1819. Now, seven, he's at 7.4, so I don't know how much more that contract is going to be.

Right. For a goal he was going to be in his 30s at that point. So, you know, they have, you know, Ryan, Murren. Murray, he's got, is an RFA. Zach Werenski's going to go, you talk about the value of the entry level. Yeah. He's going to balloon. So I look at 17, 18, 18, 19 is this two-year stretch for Columbus where they don't really, you know, there's some cost certainty there on some level.

And then it's going to just skyrocket on some level, you know, Werensky is a big one to me. Yeah. So, in Panera. So I want to, I want to acquire a center still if I'm, I just, I think that's the hardest thing to get. And I don't know who's out there. Yeah. Yeah. There's going to be a lot of teams looking for top six centers and top four defensemen.

But, hey, maybe they should call the senators and see if Matthew Shane's available. How do you feel if you're Matthew Shane right now? And you're like, I just want to play for a winner. Yeah. And this is the situation you get thrown into. Yeah, it's pretty bad. We'll talk about the senators in a bit because I do want to talk about Eric Carlson and what you were writing about with defensemen in that upcoming draft.

UFA class. But yeah, I mean, Columbus is, I really like that team. I mean, obviously they've hit a bit of a rough patch here with bad, bad losses to the Oilers and the Bruins in a short stretch. But, I mean, I really like this team. Obviously, like, listen, the power play this year has been bizarrely bad. Like, it's weird that even if you thought regression was coming from where they were at last year, I didn't think, especially adding Panera, that they'd be the worst power play in the league. But they've been a good, you know, somewhere between the fifth and the 10th best five-on-five team all year. They have the best goalie in his prime right now playing. Like, it's a good recipe.

I love how many interchangeable parts they have, which might go a bit against your superstar theory come playoffs. But I guess you can make the argument that, you know, Panera now gives him the potential for a guy breakers too. Like, they're good. Yeah. Like, they've got both. So, yeah, they're a good team.

And, you know, Josh Anderson at 1.85 for the next two years. That's pretty good. Did you see this Josh Anderson thing coming? No. I mean, I liked them, but not to this extent. And not to get way ahead of ourselves, but this isn't. So he's an interesting debate in terms of how you handle a young player because, and this is one I've had with agents, because this is one I've had with agents,

because they basically forced them to take that contract. The Columbus Blue Jackets had all the leverage. Maybe they were offering them a one year at his QO. Maybe they weren't. I don't know. I know there wasn't a two-year deal on the table. So it was like take nothing essentially or a three-year deal where you're going to be undervalued.

And because that's when you have the leverage either as a player or as a team in a cap system, I think you have to utilize it. And I don't mind what they did there. What I wonder, and again, we're getting way ahead of ourselves, is what the residual, like, does any anger he might have had over how that was handled, does that disappear in two years? Like maybe they went a cup in between and everything's good and he gets rewarded. Or is he like, okay, I'm just going to see this through because I got basically

for us to sign this contract and then go from there. Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I can't say that I saw this coming because, You know, he scored 17 goals last season and not necessarily playing, you know, top minutes. So getting that from a third line guy is very useful and all that. But I mean, like, you know, this summer with expansion draft when they highlighted him as a guy that they were paying Vegas not to take. And then when there was this like entire debate about what was happening within the summer and his contract and he was holding out. And I was like, it seems like a lot of attention for Josh Anderson. now he has 13 goals and 32 games he's basically playing on their top line he's just

elevated his shot rate at an insane level and it all looks legit and yeah he's i mean he's got a 57 coursey yeah he's been he's been awesome he's been super fond of watch and um he's he's he's the living embodiment of the columbus blue jackets right now for me where it's like i i don't think he's a guy who's still getting a lot of uh national attention or if you ask a casual fan who doesn't follow the blue jackets very closely, that about Josh Anderson, they still probably wouldn't really know too much about him, but he's been super effective,

and he can play anywhere in that lineup. And yeah, I like him a lot. So I agree that getting another very reliable piece, especially down the middle, would be huge for the blue jackets, but every team is going to be looking for that. And it's just,

it's tough to identify guys who they're going to be able to get to, to fill that need. Maybe you do call Ottawa. on Matthew Shane in a month. Yeah, but do you think things have changed? Don't you think they'd have to, like the price they'd be asking for, just the sort of safe face would be pretty exorbitant. Yeah, it would be.

Like, you can't spin them for even like 75 cents on the dollar. And that's a problem, like, you know, it's so close to any deal that's already been made that the comparisons would be very easy for us to make in terms of return versus like if there was a couple year gap. You know, the problem is. I don't know. I mean, is Nugent Hopkins a guy that you can get? Is that still a thing?

I don't know. Man, if they could somehow get Peter Shirley to bite on like a David Savard or something for that, that would be a home run for them. But it seems like things have settled down a little bit in Edmonton for now. So maybe they feel like a less likely option to do so. But yeah, he would definitely fit that bill for me. Doesn't Ryan Murray seem like a total Edmonton guy? Yeah, he really does.

He really does. I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I know, I'm feeling pretty sick with this discussion. Just, just, just, just, I'm just staring at the roster now, thinking out loud. Okay, let's take one more quick, little break here, and we'll, uh, we'll finish this up on another and things. Anyone can develop high blood pressure. In fact, 7.5 million Canadians live with hypertension every day. The mission of get down BP is to bring everyone together with the goal of getting blood pressure down in a fun and interactive way.

So join the community at getdownbp.ca to learn more because getting blood pressure down has never felt so good. A community-based initiative fueled by one of Canada's leading pharmaceutical research-based companies in collaboration with hypertension Canada. It's the holiday season, which means that you might be one of the many people. It's scrambling last minute to try and get a meaningful gift for those you hold near and dear. For myself personally, I've gone through a point where I prefer getting and giving personalized gifts that you can share with the people you love,

rather than some material item that you'll just wind up putting it aside and forgetting about. Like tickets to a game, concert, or comedy show, because nothing beats having a fun night out with good company where you're having a blast and creating your memories you'll share together moving forward. A perk of going that route is that you can get said gift and just a couple taps on your phone in a matter of seconds, not having a walk around walls that are crawling with people running around trying to buy those last minute gifts.

So here's what you do. You download the Seeky app, you pick the event you like to attend, and you let them do all the work. Seekek is designed to make your ticket-buying experience, experience easier than ever, saving you time and money by searching multiple ticket sites to compare prices and find amazing deals. And to make sure you're getting your best bang for your buck, they'll also grade every ticket available based on value to help you immediately identify the best seats to fit your budget.

And you can rest easy knowing that you'll be getting exactly what you're paying for, fully guaranteed. While you're there, make sure to tell them your friends over the PDO cast sent you by using the promo code PDO. And by doing so, you'll get $20 off your first Seek purchase, which would come in handy with all the money you'll be shodling out during the holiday season. Now, let's get back to the show. All right.

Let's talk about real Eric Carlson. We were discussing the senators, and I feel like you are to blame for all of this with your Drew Dowdy thing on the athletic, and then it led to the air. I feel like that happened first, right? And then it led to Eric Carlson saying he wanted market value. I'm getting blamed.

It leads some through my tax. I think it's your fault. People in the league, they're like, great work. Now I've got to pay this guy. I just put a microphone for a Jew doughty. That's all I did. Drew's the best. Yeah.

Okay. So Eric Carlson, what do you think the odds are of Ottawa actually trading him either towards the deadline here, which would make more sense that they are because I imagine they could get a lot more for two playoff runs or this summer if things really continue to spiral out of control here? first of all just to get at how this how much this has changed in such a short period of time so drew dowdy says what he says and you know it's it's getting some you know got a lot of talk kind of nationally and so then i'm having conversations within the athletic editorial confines of like what's a good follow you know what's a natural next story to kind of keep the momentum going on this on this front and talking to Frank Provincano, who writes for us, former AGM, and he's like, well, it's a reaction to the Carlson comments.

And he's just like, you know, the smart move now would be to trade Carlson. And I'm like, oh, man, people would go nuts if you wrote that. No, don't, you know, the backlash would be too much. Right. And he's like, well, no, you know, I lived it. We should have done this in Dallas. We shouldn't have done this. You know, they have to be very progressive.

And I'm like, if you want to write this and you don't care what kind of backlash you get, by all means write the story you know and so he writes a story that says Ottawa should at least explore it and I was like actually Googling I'm like has anybody else written this are we like and because we're not we not like one of the things the athletic we're not trying to be hot take right like we're not just trying to get age views it's not the model but here I have you know at our disposal a former executive it's different than if I'm just like trade them here's a guy that can say hey you know this is the mistake we made when we kind of doubled down on this other

mistake and you know they should be progressive so he writes it and ottawa fans of course go crazy and they're like you know this is why you're out of a job and blah you know really mean-spirited but he was right and then a few days later they're talking about the no trade list being and then all a sudden it's just like oh yeah it's it becomes a natural yeah should they trade them or not trade them i'm like a week ago this was unthinkable the notion of trading carlson like unthinkable now i'd argue it's still unthinkable So you think unthinkable in that they should or that they will? I mean, they probably honestly should.

They should. I don't think that's up for debate. They should. Just from like a detached calculating business perspective, like they should. That'll be so tough. Like with everything that's gone on, especially over this past weekend with all of Malinx comments and just how much tension there's. is with a fan base, like that would be a very tough move to come back from even if you did wind up getting a really intriguing package of prospects and assets and all that.

All right. Well, then deal with him leaving for either at the deadline for nothing or well, I mean, do you see a scenario where he stays in Ottawa at this point, aside from an ownership change? Sure. If they're willing to pay him, which, yeah, I guess they might not. Like, well, okay, here's a good question to start off with first off. do you think if you were running a team would you want to be the one to pick up

the tab on Eric Carlson when he becomes a free agent next summer? Yes. I don't I don't like yes he's such a Even if it's like a I would do eight times 12 or seven times 12 whatever I'm allowed to do and I'll deal with the repercussions later

I'll deal with the second half of that contract later. Yeah. Yeah that's fair. I mean you're not worried at all about the ankle? Yeah, a little bit. But, I mean, here we are talking about rebuilds, and how hard is to find these players.

Right. And how you can do everything right and lose and still get a ping pong ball to go the wrong way. And here's a way to just say, you know what? This guy is a generational talent. And, you know, we can guarantee he's in our lineup. And yes, there's going to be risk, but there's also risk when you strip your franchise down to the bare bones and try to, you know, there's risk and everything. And I just think he's worth that risk to me, especially if you're not giving up assets to get them.

So you're just, the only thing you're costing yourself is cap space and actual money. Right. I'm taking, I'm making that bet. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's a fair question to ask and you need to evaluate that obviously, especially from a medical's perspective. and getting your own experts in there. But I agree. I mean, he's such a difference maker.

And I think I personally believe that he's going to be a type of player that's going to age pretty well based on the type of game he plays and how smart he is and how talented he is. But, yeah, it's, man, imagine if you could just, especially imagine a team adding him to their roster right now without subtracting much from the present day because I imagine, like I'm not sure what the centers would be looking for. But I imagine it would be heavily oriented around pick some, prospects because a move like that. I mean, you'd be losing in the present day no matter what was coming back. So you sort of at that point, just have to pull the plug on this roster and use that as a sign.

You have to go. The futures. Yes. So, I mean, if you were a contender and you were just basically adding Eric Carlson to your team, like, I would argue, Demetri, that it doesn't even, like, take the worst team. And it's, like, put them on the Arizona Cardinals with Ekman Larson and Arizona Cardinals. What are you talking about? No, put him at quarterback. Like, that's how good he is.

I mean, Larry Fitzgerald needs someone, finally. Getting in the ball. Oh, God. So, like, I think the league is so close that you put them, like, a difference maker like him. The Otto was a great example. Like, that's not a great team. And it's, and he, that they were within a goal of playing first down the cup. So when he's,

He's at his best, he can make the most, like, you don't even have to put him on a cup contender to have a dramatic shift. It can be, or maybe Arizona is a bad example, but any one of these, like, middling teams where you're just not sure what's happening and you don't think they're going to win a cup anytime soon. If you put them on that team, it's going to go through the roof. Or even, like, a team like the devils. Where they have all the, they have cap space. they have good young talent. They go from a team where you're like,

yeah, I like what they're doing to, okay, they can win a Stanley Cup this year. That's worth, that's worth whatever headache you're creating in years four through seven. That's worth it to me. No, I agree with that.

And players like him generally become available so infrequently that I guess that's why, that's why, especially from a media perspective, we always get so interested by stories like this and why we've been talking so much about John Tavares' impending free agency

just because these guys typically don't become available. So when they do, they're legitimate difference makers and you sort of envision all these fantasy scenarios about how they could go to a different city and all of a sudden elevate that team to levels beyond the ones they've been currently been at.

I mean, we're 10 minutes away from Greg Wischinski and ESPN having like graphics of Eric Carlson and every uniform imaginable. Like this, like we can talk about this and we will until 2019. Like that's, I'm taking that risk. So I guess on some level I'm talking out of my mouth, or two sides of my mouth,

because I'm saying Ottawa should move this guy who is a generational player, but only because it's asset management to me at that point. When you have somebody like that, the repercussions of losing him for either nothing or something fairly minimal in relation that the deadline is unforgivable to me. Yeah, I mean, so I usually keep this podcast too mostly on ice and analysis and hockey, but we're having a discussion about Ottawa. I feel like we should talk a little bit about Eugene Melnick and everything that happened this past weekend. Like, what were your thoughts on everything developed there? It's just bizarre, I would say.

I mean, it was just weird. Like, these events and these outdoor games and the alumni games and all that, that's such a, it's such low-hanging, fruit of goodwill for your city that's hosting it for the media like we all go into these events and we're in a good mood and you want to write the stories of the player playing outside as a kid and you're looking for like this isn't when you're going in and trying to like rip a team or something like these are just fun goodwill events and to not cap not only not capitalize on that to turn it into a negative and and to try to hold your fans over a barrel and turn this into an attempt to,

and that's how I read it, to get money. Yeah. I just thought it was, it just, it was, it was bizarre. I thought, I don't know why that's the tact they took. Or the timing. Especially, yeah, the time. I was going to say the timing is very bizarre to me before this big, huge game for both the league and the franchise,

and it's pretty tasteless. And it's, it's so, I mean, it's obviously not nothing new. And as senators fans are sort of used to it. it and now it's really just bubbling to the more so mainstream service but it's it must be frustrating because while I'm sure there are a lot of costs there and it's easier to uh to write checks for someone else's money if if he doesn't want to do so I'm sure there are plenty of other people that would like to do so right sell the team yeah yeah it's if you're that if you're that if it's that hard on you yes or or see this in a week you know what I'm saying like just be

smart about it like if you're going to start the and I guess maybe his thought processes, well, this is one of the spotlights on us, so I guess I could maximize. I don't, that would, that would be to suggest it was a well thought out, you know, plan, which I'm not, I don't know if it was or not, but yeah, the timing, you can circle back with these comments in two weeks and still get as much buzz and not do it and, you know, put a stain over or a cloud over an event that should just be this, this, um, appreciation for your city and your team yeah um oh you know what i was thinking of another potential move uh while we were talking um i've been big on this lately but yeah i really wanted to happen

how i really want the blues to go for it this this year um because it's been so against the way they've sort of operated and built their team and they're always it's always about thinking ahead yeah which is why they've managed to sustain this high heightened level of, you know, it hasn't been greatness, but it's been very good play for a long time. But if you look like, if you look at the landscape this year, like, you know, Los Angeles looks good, Nashville looks good, Winnipeg's performing well, but I think the Western Conference especially is pretty wide open.

Yeah, for sure. And there isn't any obvious Chicago Blackhawks type team from the past that's standing in their way. And there's a very legitimate argument to be made that the Blues have the best team in the league right now in the league and in the west um health health abiding and i think another sort of game breaking type talent for them would be huge obviously and might push them to that higher level that they haven't really been at in the past so i don't know it seems like it's against their um against their fiber against their DNA but it's something that i'd really like to see happen you know what kind

of moves that doug armstrong does make that are fairly like he's would make a move if it meant the guy had a couple years on his deal still you know like I could see him be making a splash like I'll get j bolemeester's a good example like that was a good acquisition and it was a player they acquired who had term right so because he's he like I i to his credit I think Doug armstrong is always looking beyond this season and Doug Wilson's kind of a similar GM like if you look at some of his trade my trade to lend moves through the years it's for guys that have a couple years on their contract and rather than just a pure rental. And I think the jury, you know, the, the analysis of teams that do push in at the deadline,

I don't know if it really comes with a payoff and just pure rentals. Like if we went every year for the last 10 years and say, okay, who will, and look at all of our winners and losers and who all the winners were, I'm guessing there's not a lot of Stanley Cup winners in that. No, probably not. And obviously, I mean, the playoffs are so uncertain. So there isn't all, like, regardless of how good you are and how good the player you're acquiring, there isn't ever going to be a move where it's like, if we do this one thing, we're going to win no matter what. Because I just like, wasn't Kevin Chattonkirk that move?

Like, I'm like, okay, we're done here. You know, like the Capitals got, they were already great, and then they got the best defenseman available. Yeah, but we're talking about the Capitals here. This is, this is, this is like, we're talking about the Capitals curse here. Come on. I mean, if ever there was a Stanley, a trade deadline move that would just

solidify a Stanley Cup like that was the one to me so now that doesn't do it so while we're wrapping so who's your guy for the blues not to extend this any longer than it has to go but part of this deal was you had to identify a player you wanted to slide into the

yeah I mean I can't really think of anyone oh okay so I actually brought this one up a few podcasts ago but what about um like if Ottawa really does start selling off pieces this would fit with the guy who's under contract for a few more years. What about on Mike Hoffman? Oh, that would be good.

And that would fit. Yeah, he's on a pretty team-friendly deal for another couple seasons. He's sort of this, you know, dynamic goal-scoring asset that, you know, they have some of, but could certainly help them. And, yeah, I think he kind of fits everything. Obviously, it depends on if Otto would be willing to move him and if they start going down that path. But if so, like a guy like that, more so than I think. Because I agree. I can't see them being the type of team that would go for like an abandoned

cane or something at the trade deadline. I feel like Mike Hoffman makes much more sense. I like that. I like that. And you got staffing coming off the books. So you're opening up $7 million after this year. So you can, you've got some room there, some flexibility if you can make it work this year. I agree.

I agree with that. Craig, while we're wrapping up here, I'm going to bring this full circle and bring up the, do you remember the off-season discussion? discussion we had about when I took the Winnipeg Jets and you took the Carolina Hurricanes this season? No, I don't actually. Was that when the guy was hammering the floor above us? It was. Oh, it happened.

Don't blame it on Joe Guy. That was. I was distracted by Drogo. Like, I actually wanted to say Winnipeg. But if this podcast had any sort of production value right now, we would, we would drop it in. Yeah, we would drop it in there. But that's not going to happen. I was going to tell people to go back and listen to every single podcast you and I have

ever done and maybe find out. How did I like was I like oh I'll take the other side or was I pretty passionate about Carolina? I think you acknowledged that both teams were intriguing and sort of you know mirror images of each other in opposite conferences but I think you were higher on Carolina and I think I was honestly a bit higher on Carolina too but I took Winnipeg just for the sake of discussion um but well my well I just didn't I didn't think Winnipeg fixed their big issue which was goaltending and I thought Carolina did. Right. And it wound up being just an

internal solution for Winnipeg. Oh, good for them. I mean, I just saw that team. They're a powerhouse, man. Yeah. They're legit. They're looking good. And the other one.

And listen, it's my podcast, so I'm not going to bring up all the times. I was horribly wrong. It's okay. But I remember when I was pretty high on the, relatively speaking, at least on the Devils and our watchability rankings before the season. you weren't so sure about it. Although I also had Vegas like either 30th or 31st and they've obviously been much higher in terms of entertainment value.

That's one where I was wrong on. But anyways, plug some stuff. What are you working on these days? Do you have 12 more rebuild pieces in the can? Yeah, so any team that's undergone a rebuild in the last 10 years, I will be examining them for the athletic and mentioning Detroit so I can tag it for the Detroit page. And no, really, in terms of plugs, if you haven't checked out the book behind the bench where I set down with 10 coaches and watched game film with them, I would encourage you to give it a shot. And what else? Oh, and if you're a podcast fan, go listen to the full 60.

That's my podcast. Basically stole the format from Dimitri where I talked to somebody for an hour. I just called it something differently. And the way I've done, the only kind of different spin is I'm trying to make them timeless so you can binge, like, listen. So I would encourage, like, the John Chica episode is really good. I mean, they're all, like, they're all, like, children to me. But the, you know, Mike Russo, people seem to really like that one. They're, they're pretty timeless. Like, we're not talking about what's happening this week. And so I would encourage you to go back and listen to go through the, uh, some of the old

ones and give it a binge listen. I agree. I'm a big, uh, big full 60 fans. So I check that out. I feel like we're brother, sister podcast. Like, whatever that would be in the podcast realm. Yeah. Of course. Um, I'm just, wow. I'm just waiting for my invite. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Of course. Okay.

We'll do that soon. All right. Thanks for coming on in chat, Greg. And we'll do this again soon. Thanks, Dimitri. The Hockey PDOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud. At soundcloud.com slash hockey pdocast.