The Hockey PDOcast - Episode 214: [Insert Vegas Golden Knights Pun]

Episode Date: January 4, 2018

Greg Wyshynski joins the show to discuss just how the Vegas Golden Knights have managed to exceed everyone's wildest expectations (2:35), whether their early success changes their plans for the immediate future (29:50), why it stinks that the NHL isn't going to the Olympics (44:12), and why the league needs an equivalent to the NFL's RedZone Channel (55:56).  Sponsoring today’s show is SeatGeek, which is making it easier than ever before to buy and sell sports and concert tickets. They’re giving our listeners a $20 rebate off of their first purchase. All you have to do is download the free SeatGeek app and enter the promo code PDO to get started. Also sponsoring today’s show is Harry’s Razors. If you sign up with them today using the promo code PDO, they’ll send you a trial shave set free of charge that includes: 1) weight ergonomic razor handle, 2) 5 precision-engineered blades with a lubricating strip and trimmer blade, 3) rich lathering shave gel and 4) a travel blade cover. All you have to do is cover the shipping cost and that starter kit will be dropped at your door for free. Every episode of the podcast is available on iTunes, Soundcloud, Google Play, and Stitcher. Make sure to subscribe to the show so that you don’t miss out on any new episodes as they’re released. All ratings and reviews are also greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening! See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices If you'd like to gain access to the two extra shows we're doing each week this season, you can subscribe to our Patreon page here: www.patreon.com/thehockeypdocast/membership If you'd like to participate in the conversation and join the community we're building over on Discord, you can do so by signing up for the Hockey PDOcast's server here: https://discord.gg/a2QGRpJc84 The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Media Inc. or any affiliate.

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2015, it's the Hockey PEDEOCast with your host Dmitri Filipovich. Welcome to the HockeyPEDEOCast. My name's Dimitri Philipovich. And joining me is Greg, what's your title? Would you say you're the host of pretty much

every other hockey podcast in the university these days? Until Merrick launches his with Elliot, then yeah, that's the case. I'm the, I'm the I'm the secret host of biscuits with Down Goes Brown and Lozo, too. I'm kind of sit quietly in the corner while they talk. And also, don't forget, I am the senior NHL writer at ESPN, which is both an indictment of the lack of NHL writers and also my age.

Yeah, that's right. So I haven't had you on the show in a while. I feel like back when I was in New York, maybe in the spring, we did. a couple. I remember we did that one at the, while you were still at Yahoo and we did out at your studio and there was random hidden jazz music, which we found out after the fact. And that was a

crowd, crowd pleaser. Yeah, that was an interesting one. I, I appreciated. It might have been one of my more successful appearances ever on any podcast, only because, you know, the soothing tones of the kind of music that you'd hear in the background on the Weather Channel,

I think it sort of takes the edge off of the harshness of my occasional New York New Jersey accent All right Well I'm excited to do this thing I'm feeling refreshed We had a good holiday break here at the PDOCAST

But I've been two weeks since we did the last show And we're excited to have you on And today we're gonna do a bit of a A deep dive on the Vegas Gold Nights You know I haven't really gotten into them on this podcast Up until this point It's sort of been eyeing them from a far referencing them in a passing

But haven't actually You know I was so skeptical at the beginning and then you're kind of letting the story build and the sample build. And now I've finally done, I've done my homework, I've done some digging. And you're the right guest to have on for this, considering that you spend some time with the team and also thinking about the team and writing your long-form article a few weeks ago. So it should be a good discussion.

So here's the question I have for you off the top to turn the tables and all of a sudden become the host of this podcast too. The question I have for you is, as a guy who is a devotee of analytics and of critical thinking and of the proper way to build teams and such, have you been avoiding the Golden Knights because you're afraid of what you might find? Is it such an anomaly and so inexplicable

that you were afraid to dive into it because it bucks every prediction and tradition that we thought about for this team? Yes and no, especially early on, obviously. you know, it's whenever something flies in the face of your expectations or your preconceived notions, it's kind of, you know, doesn't pass the smell test and you're skeptical of it and you're waiting for, you know, things to come back down earth and reverse course. And after a while now we're what, approaching the 40 game mark or so.

Some teams have already played 40 games. You need to start actually taking some of the stuff for what it's worth. And especially with this Golden Knight team, and we're going to get into this quite a bit. You know, while early on, it was a great story. And, you know, especially in that home opener. when they just come out of the gate super hot and everyone's talking about what a great story it is, but the numbers themselves weren't that impressive.

But as the years gone along, they've actually kind of been on the upswing. So they've been winning these games, but now it actually seems like they're doing so in a very sustainable manner too, which is definitely making sort of someone like myself take more notice of what they're doing. So you're saying the Golden Knights are actually good.

I think I am saying that, which seems crazy, but I mean, look at some of these numbers. I mean, what, they're 12-0-1 in their past 13 games. They're 27, 9 and 2 in the year. They're leading the Western Conference. They're only behind the Tampa Bay Lightning. I mean, they have the second-best goal differential in the league.

All of this stuff is really just, I don't know, it's staggering. I mean, even, I think, the most optimistic people heading into the year on the Golden Knights wouldn't have expected this. No, without question. And so let's get into it. I feel like there's a combination of a few things. And I suppose since we've talked about now, they're on ice performance, we should talk about the actual players that are playing.

And, you know, the first thing to be said about the Knights is that obviously we all misjudged how set up they were going to be by this expansion draft and these rules. I mean, as we both probably have in the last couple years, you look back at the expansion teams for like the Ottawa senators, and some of the other, the Columbus Blue Jackets and some of the other clubs that came out of the gate and didn't perform, you know, extraordinarily well or didn't have exactly the kind of rosters that we've seen with the knights. And you come to realize that, you know, this was probably a cut above what we expected vis-a-vis an expansion team. And for me, coming into the season, I don't about you, like, I figured they'd figure out something on the back end because they had like 100 defensemen. And the goal tending was always going to be pretty good because of the way the rules were set up, you know, beyond Flurry.

The fact they were going to grab a goalie from every team told you that this was going to be all right. My biggest concern was the scoring, and I think where we all missed the boat, was, one, the amount of offense that the Neal line was going to create. and two, that getting both Riley and Marcia So was going to create a scoring line and that William Carlson was all of a sudden going to become Brett Hall. So when you've got two lines that you can depend on the generate offense and then the other lines skate as well as they have and possess as well as they have, it's a recipe for success. And I think that more than anything else, we may be misjudged

the assemblage of offensive talent that George McPhee had put in this roster. Yes, no, definitely. I think I thought that, you know, their baseline would be decently high, definitely higher than a lot of the past expansion teams just because of, as you mentioned, they'd be able to load up on sort of third line types and third pairing or even second pairing defensemen. And with the goaltending, they'd be able to stay in games and be kind of annoying to play against. But I wondered where they'd get the offense to actually win enough games. And that's kind of been the most shocking part when you look at all this. I mean, their third in the league. in 5-1-5 scoring behind only Tampa Bay in Toronto and those two teams have a bunch of guys I've heard of before and and they're second overall and some of that some of that has to do with you know their shooting percentage is still a bit inflated I think it's fourth highest in the league but I mean the thing is uh okay the other thing I definitely didn't see coming was the I saw the depth coming I didn't really sort of account for how big of a difference that would make right because it just when you watch them play they're so relentless they

keep coming at you in waves. There's no sort of break for you to take against them, and they're incredibly sound in the neutral zone. And it's really glaring when you watch them play some of these other teams who do have a few very noticeable weaklings, because especially in the regular season when coaches aren't necessarily riding their top guys as much as possible, like over the course of a 60-minute game, you're going to get exposed, and Vegas has been just feasting on some of these other teams, you know, fourth lines or third pairings or what have you. And so that's sort of been a massive advantage for them as well. Yeah, and the rolling of four lines and playing everybody as much as they play them,

I think kind of speaks to the next aspect of this team, which is the motivation aspect of it. And so the thing I came to realize when I did that Vegas story beyond the fact that, you know, the Mandelaide Bay, I'm sorry, the Mandarin Oriental doesn't have a casino, which is why teams are trying to stay there. the one aspect of the knights that I realized that I didn't really realize it before was how many carrots are dangling in front of these guys faces? So you start off with the most obvious one, which is that a number of these guys are cast-offs. A number of these guys are players who, you know,

were exposed in the expansion draft, had to uproot their families, uproot their lives, go to Las Vegas to a new team, because essentially their team didn't feel like they were valuable. enough to protect. And that's a hell of a motivation. I mean, you know, when you are snubbed in that manner by a team, the only thing you want to do is prove them wrong in any manner that you can. So that not only speaks to the season long revenge plot, but it also

speaks to every single time that they play a team, there's somebody who's basically putting money on the board and saying, it's my turn. And that goes right down to Galant, you know, against the Panthers. So you have all that motivation there. Then you have have the motivation of all of a sudden this team being pretty good. And now you're trying, and also you kind of like it in Vegas. It's a nice place to live. You've got a nice little house. The weather's good. You can go golfing. It's pretty great. So now you want to kind of stick around. So now you've got the motivation to play as well as you can in the early part of the season as a team to avoid the team being broken up because you kind of like these guys. So you know what the deal is

as an expansion team. You know, you're supposed to be blown up with a trade deadline, but now maybe they're not. So you got those two motivations. And then on top of those two things, you've got guys that are all basically playing for contracts. I mean, you know, I believe before Marsh is so signed this week, they might have had upwards. They clearly had over a dozen people or a dozen players that were going to be free agents after this season. You know, maybe a smaller number than you'd expect with the expansion team, but a pretty significant

significant number at that. And so you have a lot of guys that were in contract here as Marcia Soapie, one of them, Carlson's and RFA on and on, that are not only playing for larger contracts from George McPhee, but are also saying, all right, if this thing in Vegas doesn't work out, I got to make sure that I take care of myself from a league perspective and put up as many numbers as I can to get a contract somewhere else. So you just got, you know, it's like a motivation parfe. There's layer after layer after layer for these guys to play well.

top of the fact, and this was something that Kevin B. Exa, when I interviewed him recently, mentioned to me, on top of the fact that they don't get any pressure. Like, it's all motivation and no expectation for the Golden Knights, which is an incredible combination of factors when you consider that they're pumped up to do all these things. And that at the end of the day, if they don't, as a team, who cares, you're an expansion team. So it's a really interesting site of psychological circumstances that I think it's contributed to this. So I haven't had the good fortune of getting down to watch a game or two down there, but you have yourself, obviously. What's the vibe like in the arena? Are people pretty

excited about this team? The term that visiting players have used, and I don't think it's hyperbole, is it's a playoff atmosphere. It's loud. It's consistently loud. The fans are engaged. It's a remarkable place to watch a game. I mean, there's a number of ways you can kind of, you know, add details to that outline when it comes to being a remarkable place to watch a game. I mean, very few places in the NHL can you walk across the street from the arena, place a bet on the game, walk back across the street, and watch the game, you just place the bed on.

That's kind of a cool thing. And then, you know, around the arena, amazing bars and restaurants. It's a great time and it's a great vibe. but obviously, you know, the thing that we never really factored in for this team was, you know, when they had that first homestand, I think it was upwards of eight or nine games. And they were against manageable teams that really kind of laid the foundation for the rest of the season from a confidence perspective. Like the things we do work, we know we can skate teams out of the building here because for various reasons, they may not necessarily be on their game. and so the knights had been very proficient in getting the first goal. When they haven't, they just keep coming at you in waves.

It's a remarkable thing to watch a game there because the in-game experience, but it's also remarkable to see how that team plays in front of those fans. And then the other factor, too, which is another one of these things that is unpredictable, when you talk to the knights, the connection they have with these fans and their motivation, to play for these fans on Home Ice is unparalleled in the NHL because their first game there, like you mentioned, off the top, was a week after this massacre. You know, the biggest single-shooter massacre in the history of the United States happens. So the opening night game becomes both a tribute to the first responders and eulogy for the victims

and, you know, support for the family. And every single game, there is some recognition of, of, of, you know, the victim's family. somebody whose life was affected by the one October shootings. And you talk to the Knights players and to a man, they say, you know, when that sort of thing happens, it reprioritizes life and it bonds you with this city and these fans in a way that is sort of incomprehensible. So I think that's another, that, I mean, as hokey as it might sound, pro athlete playing for his town because of some tragedy, it's definitely a factor in the way they've played on whole life. Yeah. I mean, it definitely seems to try and,

late from just from watching at home. It definitely, you know, they seem to be coming out of the gate pretty quickly. And it seems to snowball really quickly on the opponent. And I mean, obviously the 17, 2 and 1 record at home speaks for itself. And one of my favorite running gags this season has been just tweeting out the Vegas Golden Knights home record and just not leaving, not having any analysis with it, just tweeting it out. And then obviously people kind of run with it and make jokes and sort of read between the lines. but I mean, listen, like they've been good pretty much wherever they played.

I know that their road record is a bit sort of, it can be misconstrued because there was that stretch when they went through the Eastern Conference where they were on their third and fourth, on their fourth and fifth string goalies, I should say, and they were giving up a ton of goals. So maybe that's not necessarily representative of how good this team's actually been on the road either. And, you know, we saw that, what was it last week or two weeks ago, where they went through that potentially treacherous South Carolina. South California back-to-back trip and took care of business against both the ducks and the kings and looked impressive doing so. So I think maybe while obviously they do seem to have a bit of a home ice advantage and you can take that for what it's worth,

they're pretty much been playing good wherever they've been playing. They have. And I think, you know, it was funny doing that Vegas lose story because, you know, for every guy in the Vegas locker room, that'll admit that, you know, there's some advantage to playing in Vegas and having teams come here for the first time. and, you know, experience life in rooms that don't have clocks and don't have windows and how that might just throw your internal clock off a little bit. And that's why, you know, the Knights had maybe some slight advantage in these games. For every guy that says that, you'll find a guy that's like, you know, I play pretty well on the road, too.

James Neal being one of them, I think, who kind of said, hey, you know, for all this Vegas flu talk, I mean, it's not as if we've been, you know, a completely different team on the road. But although, you know, for a while their road record was maybe a tick above 500 while their home record was obviously exponentially better. So, yeah, I think it all speaks to the buy-in from these guys. And also, like, the grander scheme of things beyond, you know, the way Galant has these guys playing and the way they've thrown their trust to him as a coach is the construction of the team.

I mean, enough can't be said about the fact that despite, I mean, there's no question that those nights were set up by the expansion draft, but enough can't be said about the selections and the move that George McVee made to put not only a good team on the ice, but to really drill down and do his homework and find guys that in an unpredictable environment and in a situation where things could get kind of dire after a few weeks, being that they were an expansion team, to put some really good personalities in the room together.

There's a real psychological aspect to their, player selection for this season and I think it's really paid off. Yeah, and that's a good point. And, you know, you mentioned earlier when we were starting this discussion about, you know, how this sort of challenge my beliefs about roster building and expectations for them. And I think if anything, it sort of supports what I've been saying all along in the sense that teams so often just seem to, it doesn't seem like a lot, like, oh, you know, we're going to give this fourth-line spot.

this guy who's going to go out and throw a couple hits and getting some fights and but it does all add up and it all kind of sums together and with this team I mean one of the reasons as we mentioned why they've been so successful is there aren't really any real kind of weak links or wasted lineup spots and

that's been huge for them and it's added up to something great in some of the parts so it's it's I've kind of enjoyed that obviously didn't expect that it would lead to this kind of success but it's been cool to see regardless the irony of it is that, I mean, if you think back to last June, like, McPhee took heat.

Remember he took heat for, like, some of the selections that they've made in the expansion draft? And also, like, for not twisting the arms of certain GMs harder to leverage better player. Like, you know, like, how much heat did Vegas take for not plucking a better defenseman than Shea Theodore from the ducks? And he's turned out to be great and, you know, and so on and so forth. And, you know, I think at the time maybe we saw the players that were available and we saw some of the situation that these teams were in and were like, well, why don't you get more? And at the end of the day, it's like you look at Smith and Marsha So who were leveraged from the Panthers. And then you look at Alex Tucker. I'm a huge fan of. I think that kid has got everything on the plate as far as being a significant power forward in this league and grabbing him from Minnesota because they laid off of Dumba.

like these these moves might not have been necessarily lauded at the time the way they should have because we all had you know our you know eyes on the sky as far as what we thought the knights should get out of these out of these expansion draft situation um but they've clearly paid off I mean I think the selections he's made and the leverage that he uh you know had on on a couple of these teams has certainly contributed to the roster that we see here yeah um all right Greg let's take a quick little break here to hear from a sponsor and we'll pick it up on the other other things it's a new year and that means that everyone's going through that annual dance right now of coming up with a list of resolutions that they'll follow for a couple days

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Let's talk a bit about that Marsha's Soul line. You mentioned before we went to break that Marshall and Smith, and obviously it helps being a gift-wrapped two-thirds of a top line. Yeah, I was trying to rack my brain and think about how many other sort of comments. combinations around the league have been as good as those guys have been this year with William Carlson. And I mean, I have the Bruins guys with Marsha and Bergeron and Pasternac. I have, you know, Teresenko and Schwartz was healthy, maybe the 3M line in Calgary and I guess maybe Nashville when it loads up its line. But other than that, like, you can make a case that Marshallsoul line has been a top five

unit at five on five this year, which is crazy. I mean, even for someone who liked those two guys coming from Florida and thought it was a home run type of deal for Vegas, they've obviously very close. clearly exceeded expectations themselves. Yeah, and then obviously the Tampa line and then, you know, the Devil Tomer, of course, your Nico Heesh, your Taylor Hall combination. Yes. But, yeah, but no, I mean, listen, I mean, it's just on and on and on with this team

where you take a player like Carlson who, you know, had some middling offensive results for the blue jackets, but obviously in a very specific role with them. And then you get selected here. And now all of a sudden his time on ice jumps by about four minutes a game, maybe even greater than that this season. And the results are there where he's, you know, all of a sudden, like I said before,

setting up for shots in a circle like he's Brett Hall. Yeah, like you said, I mean, we've both heard coaches over and over again talk about how they like to build lines with duos. And this is a great example of it. I mean, you get two guys of familiarity. You throw them together on the same line. Marsha so clearly being the player that

many, you know, saw last season and didn't think that you'd see again, but lo and behold, he is legit, fast, good player who, you know, where the league is right now, from a side's perspective, it's not an issue anymore.

And yeah, they've just been great. And like you said earlier, like to watch this Vegas team play, they just have such speed and they have such tenacity and, And also like, and this, I don't know if this is simply just a function of the Vegas flu or what, but like the games that I've seen them play in Vegas, and there's been upwards, maybe like four or five now, they just seem to have a real knack for getting really clean looks. And, and, you know, maybe that's a function of why they're shooting percentage of the team is where it is.

But they're just kind of, they're smart with the puck and they've got, they've got real chemistry on those lines. and rare is the case where they're, you know, jabbing and trying to create things out of nothing. There's been a number of times when I've seen the play where in the offensive zone, they've been able to move the park to guys in great shooting positions for real clean looks at the goal. And it's not something that I really anticipated from a team that, like you said, doesn't exactly have high-end a plus offensive talent. Well, yeah, I think that speaks to what we were mentioning about, of how relentless they are and how they come at you in waves.

And it's, especially through the neutral zone, what I've noticed, watched them. And I've really enjoyed watching this gold nights team play this season is how efficient they are in the transition game in the neutral zone. And it seems like eventually they're just going to wear down the opposition and create some of those. I mean, they do a lot of Royal Road passing and it sets up some great shots. I mean, it feels like almost all of William Carlson's goals this year have been him,

as you mentioned, just sort of bread-hauling it, just like hanging out on one knee, just waiting to get a one-timer in from a perfect scoring spot. So it's been cool. I mean, what's the best thing about William Carlson right now? The fact that he has 20 goals and 38 games or the fact that when you translate Wild Bill Carlson on Google translate,

when you're talking to someone who's in Sweden, it translates to Savage Billy Kay, which I think should be his actual new nickname. You know, Wild Bill thing's funny. Like I did a story while I was out there. the Golden Knights partnered with this animal shelter. It's a long story, but to boil it down. There's a dog breeder that abandoned a U-Haul truck full of Pomeranians in Vegas,

and these dogs became like minor celebrities because there was like 160 of them. And so everybody wanted to kind of get involved in adopt these dogs. And the Knights partnered with this animal shelter to bring a bunch of dogs to the rink and and and and and have people come and try to adopt them there like during practice and they all gave him hockey names like biscuit and celly and whatever and then like I came to one and it said wild bill and at the moment it didn't for whatever reason remember that that was the given nickname of William Carlson and I thought it was a Bill Foley reference and I was scolded by the lady from the animal shelter she's like no this is not for Bill Foley sir this is for William

Carlson our leading goals score I'm like oh well there you go but um I think you talk about the good things about it. The tragedy of this season for William Carlson is, you know, if we are to believe that Olympic selection is a meritocracy, a guy on the wing for Sweden with 20 goals at his age might have played himself on the Olympic team this year, if, in fact, the NHL had gone. I think that might be the real tragedy.

You know, with 20 goals at the beginning of January, it's entirely possible that he would have played him. self on to the Olympic team this year. Yeah. I mean, listen, I'm a huge Wild Bill fan, but of all the tragedies on top of my list about NHL not going to

not going to Olympics, I think him not being on Team Sweden is very, very low down the list. I think it goes, him not being on Team Sweden, and then Team USA not having Matthews and Ikel in that order. Yes, fair. Yeah, so

I was mentioning earlier about how the team has, its performance has improved. I mean, it's underlying performance at least, and kind of makes you believe that this might be more sustainable. And, you know, I did want to mention that because I was critical of them at the start of the year. And I thought that, you know, it was a bit of a mirage and it would come back down Earth. But in the past 25 games or so, they've been a top five possession team with the Jets, Lightning, and the Bruins. And a big part of that, what I've noticed is that it seems like on the blue line, which we haven't talked about a lot yet,

they're now just playing their best guys. Like, you know, they started the year off, and it was a lot of Lucas Spiza and Jason Garrison in the first couple games, and they were locked in a call-up Shay Theater, but now they call them up, and, you know, they have Schmidt and McNabb playing together, and they're using that Miller,

Colin Miller, John Merrill pairing, John Merrill, your boy from New Jersey in a sheltered third pairing, and they've been doing well as well. And so it's now all of a sudden that they're actually playing their best guys, in the blue line. It makes sense that the team performance as a whole has skyrocketed.

So I did want to mention that as well. Yeah. And I mean, Schmidt, you mentioned, is a player that I've been fond of mostly because he's a great quote, but also because I think he's a real solid puck mover. And I mean, the Capitals did not want to lose him, but McPhee was totally going to take

him because he had obviously that level of familiarity with him. But, you know, you mentioned the offense earlier, and they are second, in the league right now in team scoring. And part of that is the ability of the defense to get involved and, you know, make real smart, solid breakout passes to these forwards that seem to be skating at three times the pace of their opponent at times.

So it goes back to player selection. It goes back to taking what was available to them in the expansion draft and knowing exactly how they wanted to play this season. And then also, obviously, you know, grabbing some guys like Schmidt, who, you know, who's 26 that they knew we're going to be around for a bit. I think there's a few of those guys. Maybe there was more of those guys in the blue line in guys like Schmidt and Theodore

than they were up front, but now, lo and behold, there's a bunch of guys up front that are now in that situation too. Yeah. Well, so this is going to be an interesting little stretch here for them. They have a, you know, tonight they're starting a back-to-back on the road at St. Louis and Chicago, which will obviously be a nice test. And then they have a

six-game road trip coming up in a couple weeks where they're going to be playing at Washington and Pittsburgh and stuff like that. And it's crazy because all these now are sort of, it's not even I'm waiting for them to come back down to earth anymore and start losing games. It's more of a kind of like a litmus test sort of thing where I want to see them play against the best teams.

I mean, they've looked so good against the host of the Capitals a few weeks ago and just kind of wipe the floor with them. They obviously had that amazing game against the lightning where Shea Theater has scored in the final seconds. They've ran laps over around the Predators and the Leafs. It's been very impressive so far, but I still,

because now I feel myself recalibrating my expectations for them. I'm comparing them to the other league's actual best sort of solidified teams and I really want to see how they fare against them. So I think, yeah, the next couple weeks are going to be fascinating to sort of determine where they go from here because obviously as good of a story as it's been so far, the next logical question is going to be, okay, how does all of this kind of surprising winning impact their decision making heading towards the trade deadline? Do we put the playoff concerns to bed? Do we think they're a playoff team and then just go from there? or is there still something in the back of your logical mind that says, you know, this is an abar, this is an illusion, this is a mirage in the desert, if you will, and they're not going to make the playoffs.

No, I mean, I think they've definitely looked like a playoff team and their numbers suggest they're a playoff team and not even just their win-loss record, but as I mentioned before, their underlying performance. And so I think you sort of have to acknowledge what's happening here. And obviously, kind of their ceiling might still be in doubt. And when it comes to the playoffs and teams really start sort of game planning for them and not playing their own third and fourth lines and third pairings a lot. And just we'll see, you know, constantly we see that in the playoffs, Star Power tends to win out. And we'll see if Vegas has enough of that as good as that Marcossoil line has been to combat teams when they go power versus power.

But yeah, I think it would take some sort of just absolutely cataclysmic collapse right now for them to not make the play. playoffs just based on how many points they've already banked. So I think you need to start considering them to be a player team, and then it's where do they go from there? And that's what's fascinating, because we always consider that come trade deadline, they'd be sellers, and, you know, Marshal would be dealt. And obviously that's out the window now. But even James Neal, David Perron, a lot of those defensemen they took, the older guys.

And now, you know, they might not necessarily be buyers, but at least they might be standing pat, which is pretty crazy. Yeah, I wouldn't touch the forwards. but I'd still maybe think about trading one of those defensemen. You know, like I feel like there's got to be a happy medium between keeping this team together for what is going to be a playoff appearance. I mean, I think the other factor beyond, you know, how they play is who's going to catch them. And, I mean, they're 10 points clear, the ducks and the sharks right now.

And the way that the conference is setting up, you know, the only way that they're not making the playoffs is if they get kicked to the wild card. And, I mean, they've got a hell of a cook. right now. So, you know, maybe somebody with an expiring contract. I mean, you mentioned Spisa, you know, if that could be something that gets swung at some point, maybe that, you know, or a player of that nature. But like, you're right. I mean, overall, you have to imagine that they're going to stand pat. I don't know if they'll add anything. But the trade deadline, you know, buffet that was going to be the Vegas Golden Knights, I think, is probably not going to come to

fruition because of how well they played. Yeah. Yeah, man, it's a tough spot. I don't know what the right answer is. Because obviously, you know, you still want to evaluate, you don't want to get, let emotion dictate your decisions and you kind of want to view this critically, and it still seems crazy as good as they've been,

that this would really be a contender that would be one or two pieces away from potentially making serious damage in the playoffs. But at the same time, like, you look around the Pacific Division and the Western Conference as a whole, and it seems like it's there for the taking this year more than any year.

Like I've talked about this with the St. Louis Blues quite a bit, but it applies to Vegas here as well, where there hasn't really been a team that's sort of elevated itself and shown that it's head and shoulders above the rest. Like, I feel confident saying that the lightning look very, very good in the Eastern Conference, but out west, like, it's pretty open. There's a lot of good teams, but there isn't a great team. Like, there has been in the past with the LA Kings and the Blackhawks of the past.

So I don't know, maybe I can see why it would be tempting to potentially see if, Obviously, you don't want to pay an exorbitant price by any means, but if there's an impact player that you can add for a few cheap assets, maybe you do explore that if you're George McPhee. Yeah, and I mean, I agree with you that from a, especially from a point's perspective, there's no big dog in the conference or anybody running away with anything at this point outside of maybe Vegas. But L.A. scares me in a pretty big way being able to accomplish what they've accomplished without Jeff Carter. Like I'm thoroughly impressed with what's going on there. And it's, you know, for all the people that said Daryl Sutter might have been the issue there. I mean, there's a lot of guys in that roster that all of a sudden found their smile, Cofittar being chief among them when Stevens took over that team.

So it's, they're a team that I kind of, I'm side-eyeing right now insofar as what they've been able to accomplish this season. and then knowing what they're getting back when Carter is the lineup. But it's, I mean, part of that, obviously, is the undying need for me to cover dynasties and fake dynasties. And if the kings were to somehow get another cup, you know, the debates between that in Chicago for this era would be pretty fun to have. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I was trying to think of now I'm really talking myself into Vegas being a by, higher at the deadline. But like, I guess if they were looking for one thing,

it would be an actual impact defenseman, right? Because as much as we like Shaytheidore and Nate Schmidt, it seems like they could have, that would be their biggest need because up front they seem pretty sad. I mean, obviously every team can use another top six winger or two, but in terms of actual needs, it seems like a defenseman would probably be the way to go. Yeah, exactly.

And like, you know, it's either ship one out or bring one on, right? And I think you're right on the forward group. I wouldn't touch it. I just think that things are working so incredibly well up front right now. And they found, you know, incredible chemistry with all these lines. And you have guys punching so far above what we expected their way to be that, you know, going and making a trade for a veteran expiring contract up front, they just don't need it. I mean, the amount of goals this lineup is generating and the amount of confidence they have at each other

and the amount of smart deployment that Gerard Lenton is his coaching staff have done, I just don't think that you need to add some expiring contract scoring winger to, you know, bolster this group. Well, a couple weeks ago, I was fantasy booking and I threw out the idea of how the sandalways blue should be going hard after Mike Hoffman. Let's start a rumor here where the Golden Knights should be trying to get the second best Carlson in the league and trading for. for Eric Carlson.

I think that would make a lot of sense for a number of reasons. Because he's very good. One being that, but no, I think the biggest reason is that, you know, we're all on the verge as hockey fans of sending SEAL Team 6 into Ottawa and rescuing our sweet Swedish boy from that,

you know, burgeoning tire fire. So any move that gets Sarah Carlson away from Eugene Melmick, I think is a move that I can hardly endorse. But, I mean, you mentioned the Hoffman of the Blues. I mean, what about Captain Max Patsy-Ready to the St. Louis Blues?

That was the one we were all fantasy casting. Yeah, I mean, speaking of people that need to be rescued at this point, I think Max Patsch Ready is near the top of the list. Would you... Him to the Blues is one, then obviously, obviously there's that rumor being bandied about, or that speculation being vannied about, that a patchy-ready for the nudge trade

would be an interesting one between the Oilers and the King. and what was your your fast and loose opinion on that one sir um it makes sense in the in the short term but like man it it really seems like peter shrelli and uh in building this team around connor mac david has really just throwing all caution to the win in terms of planning ahead and trying to build a sustainable team for years to come and i don't know how uh you know patty's still in a great deal and he has a year and a half left on it but he's older and he's going to become super expensive after that. And I just, I don't know, it just seems like with the way they've been running this team,

like you're going to have Connor McDavid for the next, however many years, I'd like to maximize that and try to think ahead rather than trying to make the playoffs this year. So I don't love it personally, but listen, Max Petrietti is a heck of a player. And he'd obviously be an upgrade over Nugent Hopkins just purely in a vacuum in terms of talent and what they bring to the table. So it'd be fascinating. but I think it'd be a bit rich for my blood if I was running the Oilers. Yeah, I mean, I'm kind of back and forth on it for that very reason.

Like, I think that you're right that Patsy Reddy is an elite score and adding that to the wing on a team that has traded away a considerable amount of elite scoring on the wing is kind of a thing that they probably need to do at this point. But there's always there's always been a part of me that really likes Newt-Hawkins game within the context of what you need to potentially win a cup. And to me, like, every time I think about his place on that Euler's roster, it's never been a situation where I'm like, oh, he's going to be the number two behind Connor.

Like, obviously, Drysidal needs to be that guy. But I've always thought of him within the context of he could be a Jordan Stahl who doesn't win all that many faceoffs in that lineup like he was with the Penguins for their first cup. Like, I feel like Newgeon Hopkins does so many little things right when you watch him play, you know, a three zone player, just a really good, solid guy that may not necessarily put up the numbers that are commiserate with his draft at us or his contract, but does the things you need from a guy to win. And I hesitate to deal that, but then I would hesitate to deal anything after the track record that Edmondson has in these trades. Right. And New Jersey Hopkins is always going to be the type of guy, and it's amazing how sort of expectations work in guiding your opinions. We see that with a guy like John in the Marshall, sort of bring it back to Vegas, where undrafted guy, so everyone just super skeptical and keeps bouncing around the league and gets fewer opportunities than maybe a guy who's taken high is. And with Newgeon Hopkins, you know, whenever a guy goes first overall like that, you sort of expect that they're going to come in and just be an immediate difference maker where they're going to in noticeable ways.

uh, influenced the trajectory of the franchise and he might not be that type of guy, but there is a middle ground between that and being a bust or a guy who's not very good. And, and he's very clearly a two-way difference maker and just sort of look at who they've given him to play with over the years and all that. And, and I, I,

if they were willing to sell him, um, for like 75 cents on a dollar just because they're trying to shed salary or maybe make some sort of a move to show that they're not complacent, I would be all over that. It seems like, uh, calling, calling Peter Shirelli. over the years when he's dying to make a move has turned out to be a pretty good GM tactic over the years. It is the gift that keeps on gifting, that is for sure. Okay, Greg, another quick break here, and then we're going to finish the discussion on the other end.

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One of the good things about the holidays is it's pretty easy to stay busy and stay entertained. You know, obviously there's a ton of food and drinks and Christmas parties and it's your spending time with your loved ones and you know it can be a pretty hectic time with something different going on every night but now that we're into january and the holiday season's past schedules have cleared up a bit and it seems like there's less to do on a nightly basis and you know let's say it's a random weeknight and you've already worked your way through all the Netflix shows you want to check out or you just happen to have some extra spending cash so you were gifted by your weird uncle who was too lazy to actually go out and buy something for you and you're just looking for a way to spend it now

in a creative manner well how about uh treating yourself to a live event and you know i know this is a hockey But I also acknowledge that people have other interests too and it doesn't necessarily even need to be a game. It could be a concert or a stand-up comedy act. Whatever you decide on, you're going to want to make sure that you're using Seahekeek to make it happen because they've taken what can be a complicated and confusing process and made it as simple as possible for you. There's honestly no easier way to shop for tickets. Thanks to their app and just a couple clicks, they'll do all the work for you by searching multiple ticket sites, comparing prices and finding the best deals. They'll even lay out all the information for you in a color-coded system that grades the available tickets based on value. and you can rest assured knowing that what you're paying for is what you'll actually get fully guaranteed.

And best of all, they're treating my listeners with one final belated gift for the holidays by giving them $20 off their first Seek purchase today. So open that present and use it. Just download the Seeky app and let them know that we send you by entering the promo code PDO. That's promo code PDO for $20 off your first Seek purchase. All right. I think we've done enough about Vegas. Do you want to talk a little bit about the Olympic rosters? because I know that you guys were putting up some stuff,

sort of fantasy booking and hypothetical stuff on ESPN, and it made me sad a little bit to look at those potential rosters because it reminded me of how fond of Olympics would have been. But it makes for an interesting discussion based on who would have made it and who would get cut. Yeah, it made me super sad as an American. I mean, and to put a fine point on it, I mean, not simply just not getting a chance to see Matthews and Michael on that stage,

but this season did seem to be that sort of sweet spot between the Vancouver and Sochi players era and this next generation of player. Like the combination of that talent might have actually led to a potential win over Canada in the Olympics this year. But then you look, you know, four years from now, that's four years older for Patrick Kane. It's four years older for Phil Kessel, four years older for any other. number of these guys and you wonder exactly what that roster might look like. So from a missed opportunity perspective, the USA roster, I think, might be the hardest one

to deal with. But all over the place, I mean, there was, you know, a talented Swedish team. Canada could have obviously iced their usual for Olympic teams that they wanted to. A Finland team that was sort of in transition, but had some exciting young players on it. it would have been a pretty remarkable tournament had they gone. But as many people listening right now probably know, I'm kind of on the NHL side in this dispute with the IOC, because I think they are the lesser of two gigantic snarling, blood-curdling,

terrible evils. That said, I really hated when Bettman decided to pivot and make this thing a CBA issue versus just keeping the heat on the IOC. Yeah, I just, I mean, I can't figure out. I'm scratching my head here, and I'm wondering why the NHL can't seem to grow its fan base and improve its revenue and market to the casual fan. I mean, it's so weird when they're making decisions,

like not going to the Olympics and playing, and showing off all their stars on that biggest stage, why people, more people aren't into the NHL product. Yeah, I guess the response to that would be that, you know, one of the disputes that they have the crux of the dispute that they have beyond the financial one is they want to grow the game and they didn't feel like the the Olympics were doing enough to allow them to do so. I mean, it's, it's some, I know people kind of roll their eyes and they hear, you know,

the NHL say, uh, we didn't get a chance to put our logos on the ice or put our logos on the boards. Like, well, you know where these guys play. But it's, it's a branding issue. And it elevates the NHL in the eyes of, of, of, of, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's a branding issue. And it elevates the NHL in the eyes of, of, of, of, casual sports fans that are watching the Olympics to know that these players are from the NHL, it's an NHL product, but it's on a different stage.

And from a grow the game standpoint, and I guess what I'm conflating that with is drawing the brand, they simply weren't getting enough of that from the Olympics. So in a perfect world, I think the best thing for hockey at the Olympics would be some kind of tournament with an age cap. So you're getting world junior guys And then maybe guys that are slightly older than that Because at the end of the day of the Olympics For me and from an NHL perspective

Shouldn't be reaffirming that Sidney Crosby is really good It should be growing this next generation of stars And giving them moments and giving them a stage and a spotlight That when they come back to the NHL Now you're like oh I remember this guy I remember the goal he scored I remember what he did and now this person has a different connection for me as a fan than they did previously. So in theory, that's the way the Olympics should work, but I don't think we'll ever get to that point.

Right. Well, yeah, I agree it's about kind of growing the next generation of stars, but it also is, like, I think a great example from this past World Cup was just seeing, you know, you want to see the best players play with each other, interact with each other, and see how it would work on the ice rather than just on paper. you know, I guess that's what the all-star game is for, but no one really actually cares about that and no one tries. And so you see at the World Cup, for example, like how amazing a guy like Brad Marchon looks playing with a Sydney Crosby. And stuff like that is what I think this would be all about.

And that's kind of a shame. And, you know, you don't want to take anything away from the guys who will be going and representing their countries. Like you see that moment with Bobby Butler telling his dad that he's going to be playing for team USA and it's awesome. And I'm sure this is going to be a great experience for those guys getting to live out a dream representing their countries. but in terms of just selfishly wanting to see the best players playing at the highest level competing for something super important, the Olympics is the best stage for that, and we're going to be deprived of that, and as a fan of hockey, that either really stinks. There's no two ways about it. Yeah, except for when you realize that, you know, we're going to get to see Brian Giante again.

It's true. Well, I mean, listen, we've seen him on teams that are super underwhelming and lacking talent. I mean, he was playing on the Buffalo Sabres for the past couple years. Well, I mean, listen, from a sort of journalistic perspective, all is not lost with this tournament. I mean, I mentioned Gianta in passing and as a joke, but I mean, we had them on ESPN on ICE, the podcast that were doing now, me and Emily Kaplan. And the way he tells it is interesting. It's like, you know, this isn't simply playing for your country and trying to win gold and what have you. It's also a showcase for these guys that have, you know, either fallen off the race.

radar for the NHL or, you know, in Gianza's case, he opted not to sign a contract before the season, maybe in the hopes that, you know, he can generate some interest by playing the Olympics and get something more palpable. There's a lot of really interesting stories for the USA and Canada, in particular, with ex-NHL guys that were on the margins that are now going to be on this crazy big stage. And, you know, it's not going to be the greatest hockey, but from a, a story perspective and a personality perspective and everything else, you know, the idea that there's going to be NBC vignettes on James Wisniewski

is kind of a fun thing at the end of the day. Yes, I guess, yeah, yeah, you're right. All right, let's, we've got a few more minutes here. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Is there anything we haven't covered that, that's been at the top of your mind lately in the NHL? So let me ask you about the devils. What do you think about the devils?

well my most recent podcast with uh with ardo o'cal who really uh hits your sweet spot there with the combination of uh w w eie ties and new jersey devil's ties um was a bit of a oh and let's not and demit let's not let's not let's not forget also my my roots at the score back when i was doing the podcast was with rob kizo and uh and doing a tv work with uh with steve coelius that's right um and uh yeah i mean you know just just like elliott free You know, I started at the score and then went on to greater, greater things. Yes, you and, you and Elliot, I'd put you guys at one and two tied there. Yeah, no, so we did a deep dive.

Oh, completely. We did a deep dive on the devils and basically the 30-second Spark Notes version was they're much more exciting than they've been in the past. It's very encouraging to see how they're playing and just in terms of the pace and the talent that they have up front especially. you know they're obviously not this good there's some reasons for concern in their underlying numbers but at the same time there's a combination there's a recipe for success there

especially if Corey Schneider can stay healthy and show that last year was just an aberration and that he's actually still that sort of 920 to 925 goalie that he'd been for the entirety of his career before last year so long story short the answer as usual is somewhere in between where they're not this good but they're not going to completely come back

crashing out of earth either. It's such a simple dumb league. Like Corey Schneider plays like Corey Schneider again and all of a sudden the devils with the increase in offensive talent on the roster become a potential playoff team. Cam Talbot

becomes Camp Talbot again and the Oilers all of a sudden plummet to the depths of the Western Conference. It's not exactly science. But the thing about the devils that I find interesting is that and not to draw the complete comparison to Vegas or tie a bow around the thing and I think, but like,

it's one of the first devil teams that I can remember where if they're down a goal in the third period, I'm actually confident they can score one. And that's a really weird place to be as a Devils fan. I might not even have been that place in that place when Kovilchuk was on the team. But there's a lot of offensive talent on this roster now, and it's got lines that can generate offensive chances. You know, anything, anytime, you know, when you have a team where anytime Brian Boyle's on the ice.

You know there's a chance for a goal. You know things are going kind of well. So I've been really impressed, and I don't know if it's an aberration or if they're ahead of schedule, but I dig it. They're an exciting team, and you couldn't always say that about the Devils. Yeah. Yeah, well, unlike Vegas, they're the type of team where I think you should obviously, as a fan, enjoy the story and enjoy all the winning for now. But if the people running the team are listening or thinking about this, they should be kind of taking a step back

and thinking more critically and still viewing themselves as more of a seller than a buyer at the deadline. So I think that's the difference between the two. The part of the roster that's making me mental is Zaka. Because, like, I was a huge proponent of them drafting Prabble Zaka. And at this point, you know, we should be able to view him as the, as the 2A or the second line guy behind Heeshire

for, like, the next 10 years. And I'm just not seeing it. I'm becoming a little bit concerned about the development of Zach as the player that I thought he had ended up being in this league. Well, and it's especially tougher when you look at the next two guys taken after him where Ivan Provarov and Zach Ranski. And those would, I'd argue, be the biggest needs for this New Jersey Devils team right now. And I mean, even after that, you have Tim O'Mire and Miko Rantonan who have shown more so far in their NHL careers. So, yeah, that's going to be kind of a tough one. But, I mean, at the same time, whenever you're talking about a player who's still only 20 years old and

has obviously the physical raw tools that you see. You kind of want to give him more time to develop, but it's obviously not ideal based on the fact that a few guys behind him that would have really changed the trajectory of this team if the devil's had taken them instead. For sure. But, I mean, the good news is that if he remains a player in his early 20s that's been somewhat underwhelming,

despite his lofty draft position, you can always flip him to the oilers for something better. So that's Devil's tradition It's true Yeah I can't wait for the Oilers to fix their scoring By trading Eugene Hopkins for Brian Gibbons Exactly

Yeah Oh oh hey listen you need some speed don't you Who doesn't Okay let's end with this I want to pitch you on On my idea for the NHL version of a Red Zone channel What are your first thoughts on that Would you be into that?

I mean, we don't necessarily get that with NHL network. Do you get an HL network in Canada? I forget. What's the deal with that? No, I don't, but I mean, I don't have cable. Like, I watch all my stuff on a game center. Okay, well, let me speak directly to my Canadian friends for a second. The NHL network down here in the States, the ones they're doing out of the MLB studios in Sycoccas, New Jersey,

the one that has, like, Jamie Harris hosting it and, you know, Kevin Weeks. and Mike Ruff and people like that. It's kind of that. I mean, it is a thing where they're taking you around the league at night. They're showing you the goals. They're giving you some analysis. They do that dopey thing where the ex-pros and their suits get on a fake rink and show you a passing play.

I hate that stuff, but people seem to always, the TV producers always seem to really like that concept. And so that's kind of the thing that you're talking about, maybe with a little bit more, you know, discussion on the topics of the day versus actual game night coverage. So I, I weep for you guys that you don't have that option up there. It's a pretty good station. Right. But so like, let's say on a Saturday evening, for example, which would be like the equivalent of a Sunday in the NFL.

I mean, you have, especially at like the 7 p.m. Eastern puck drop. Sometimes there's like eight or nine games starting at the same time. and I want a channel that every time a team goes in the power play, and this is mostly for teams like Tampa Bay and Washington, whenever they start a power play, I want to be able to just tune in or I want something to let me know that it's happening because I want to watch every single second of it.

And I want to watch the end of every game. I want to watch a three-on-three overtimes. Like, that's what I want. I want to get rid of all the fluff because there's way too much on Saturday nights. And I, as sort of a bit of a control freak and a bit of my OCD kicks in, like I want to see that I'm on top of everything, but it sometimes just becomes too much. I think your idea is better and different than what they do on NHL network.

I like that idea of cutting fat and getting right to the opportunities where there might be a goal, like show the last two minutes of every one goal game, you know, show every three on three overtime. Sort of like a NHL network on steroids idea, I think, is a cool one. I kind of dig that idea. I want to say on a Saturday night here in the States, NHL network is probably showing simulcast coverage of hockey night is what they do, mainly because, you know, obviously,

it's a different dynamic on a Saturday night here in the States than it is in Canada when it comes to NHL coverage. So I think that's what they end up doing instead of kind of kicking around and showing all the highlights if memory serves. But your idea is a good one. The Red Zone Channel is really awesome And if you could do that for hockey

And just show me in real time The exciting parts of the game That'd be great But then honestly What you're also arguing for And you even know it Is pumping up the power play And trying to make it

Easier for teams to score Because then you really get your money's worth Yeah Yeah yeah All right Greg Plug some stuff So don't let him Don't let them ice to puck

Don't let him ice the puck on the penalty kill. Two-minute majors, the Lou Laverillo two-minute major that he's argued for for years because, you know, he's, you know, the Ira, they got rid of it because of the Canadians and, you know, now we can bring it back. So if we pump up and make the power play more, more of a scoring opportunity, and then we get, you know, the six, five games that all American fans want, then, you know, we can have the Red Zone channel to watch it because we know there will probably be a goal at some point. Right. Yeah, yeah, maybe we got to revise this idea and think about it more, but I like it. It's a good start at least. All right, Greg, plug some stuff. Where can people find you?

What are you working on these days? All that good stuff. Sure thing. You can find all my writing now at ESPN. It's been a good few months there, both in trying to, on the struggle side, trying to figure out what it's like to work with editors and not simply press a button and get your stories up five seconds later. But at the end of the day, it's been a good thing.

I think some of my best writing I've done in years has been in the last couple of months at ESPN. On the plus side, they are letting me get away with an exponential amount of stuff that I want to get away with, which is a lot of fun. ESPN on An ICE is the new podcast there with me and Emily Kaplan. It drops on Tuesdays. Kind of more of your straightforward Merrick versus Sushinsky version of my podcasting life. News is a day, big name guest. We had Linda Cohen and Brian Gianta on this week. And so that's sort of your healthy diet of hockey news podcast.

And then, of course, the circus comes to town later in the week with me and Dave Lozo on Puck Soup. And if anybody's in Philly that listens to the PDOCast, we have a live show for Puck Soup in Philly on December 10th at the Helium Comedy Club. And I think there's some tickets still available for that one if you want to hop on. And that's me. And I'm at Wosinski on Twitter where you can read me. me get into arguments I shouldn't get into most days. All right, Greg. Well, it was a fun chat.

I appreciate you coming on. And let's do this thing again soon, either on this podcast or on one of your 36 podcasts. Well, you are a one-time. I am. That was a good time. And we just had film critic David Ehrlich on for a second time. So now apparently we're doing that. we're having people on again. So you are now eligible to return to Puck Soup if and when

you return to the New York metropolitan area. I'm looking forward to it, man. Check then. The Hockey P.DEOCast with Dmitri Filipovich. Follow on Twitter at Dim Philipovich and on SoundCloud at soundcloud.com slash hockey p.docast.